Code Enforcement Board - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to tonight's Miami Shores Village code enforcement hearing. My name is Judalyn June, and I am the attorney representing the village in today's hearing. I'm here to present on behalf of the village. However, the ones that are prosecuting tonight's case are code enforcement officers, and that is Mr. Michael Orta and Leopold Luis. everyone should have checked in with the clerk so that you are so that we know that you are here and that your name is on the agenda and at this point if you could all silent your cell phones so yes so tonight's meeting is not interrupted so now I will briefly explain what will happen tonight so that you all understand how the hearing works there are three different types of hearings that will be heard tonight first hearing, penalty hearing and request for relief. First hearing is for persons that have been issued a notice of violation. And this is our first time coming on that notice of violation. And the issue that will be addressed is whether there is a violation of the code on your property. The chairman will call the case by address. If it is your case, please come up to the podium and make sure that you speak into the microphone so that your testimony may be recorded. The chair will ask you if you dispute the violation and basically what is meant by that is if you agree that there is a violation on your property or should we put on evidence to adjudicate that fact. If you do dispute the charges, the village will then present its evidence and usually the code officer will have photographs and testimonies as to the violation. You're welcome to cross-examine the code enforcement officer about their testimony and the board can question the code enforcement officer as well. Then it will be your turn to put on your case to the board and present any evidence you have, and the village and the board may question you as well. Then the board will adjudicate the case by majority vote and assign a deadline for compliance. The second type of hearings are penalty hearings. These are for people that have already been through the first hearing, they were given a date to cure the violation, and the issue on penalty hearings is did you meet the deadline to cure that particular violation. The board will impose liens if there has not been a cure by that deadline. And people who are here for penalty hearings can be heard by the board. And if they maintain that they did cure on time, they can request for additional time from the board. Now, the last type of hearing is a request for relief. It's a mitigation process. These are for people that have already had a property that has been found in violation. They have incurred fine or liens and have already cured that violation and now come before the board seeking to settle with the board by offering a number less than the full amount of the lien. This is not an appeal process, but a settlement negotiation. Because of this, the board has to rule, has a rule that says that they will only vote on one proposal per applicant per meeting. As a result of that, at one point during the meeting, you will be asked a final question. And that question is, is that your best and final offer? Now what is meant by that is that, is that the offer that you want the board to vote on? You can raise or lower that amount, but once an amount has been given, that is the only amount that the board will vote and consider on. Now, for everyone that wishes to or has a testimony and wishes to testify in tonight, can you please stand and raise your right hand so I can swear you in? Okay. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you.

All right thank you for coming to this evening's code enforcement board hearing. This board is empowered to hear evidence in order to reach findings of fact and conclusions of law for the purpose of resolving cases that come before it. A finding of a violation in any case before us may lead to costs being assessed and a daily fine being levied for violations of the villages code of ordinances. The board is always interested in comments or statements that will help us make a determination in each case and we are always interested in compliance rather than levying fines. If you have not already done so please come forward and give your name to the clerk so that we may know you are here If there is no objection, we would consider at one time all cases involving the same piece of property. Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Board Member Pearl?

Sorry? Are you here?

Oh, yes, yes, I am now. Thank you. Sorry.

Board Member Rodriguez?

Present.

Board Member Berryman?

Here.

Board Member Hahn?

Here.

Board Member Buenconcejo?

Here.

Chairperson Huber?

Here.

And Mr. Kanjian was absent.

All right. Thank you very much. All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone present for first hearing?

You do. Okay. We have Frank Hornstein.

All right. So we have a case approach the podium, please. State your name and address for the record.

Frank Hornstein, 9800 Northeast Fifth Avenue Road.

Okay, so we're here for case 10-25-324, code section 15-8, damaging, defacing village property, code section 15-104, specific noise prohibitions. Mike, this is your case.

It's a Lewis's case, but I'm presenting it.

You're presenting? Okay. Please.

Thank you very much, and good evening. My name is Mike Wirtz. I'm the compliance manager. Case number 10-25-324, property address 9800 Northeast 5th Avenue, owner on record, Strings Theory Enterprises, LLC. Thank you. In violation of Code Section 15-104, specific noise prohibition, 15-8, damaging defacing village property. Corrective action to cure the violation was to cease and desist working outside approved hours, obtain required permit for tree removal. Basically, it was a tree that was removed on the public right-of-way without first obtaining public works permission or proper permits. I do have a statement from the arborist, Mr. Mike Stofstad. He couldn't be here tonight, but this is what he said. Okay. The resident at 9800 Northeast Fifth Avenue Road removed a mahogany tree in the public right-of-way that was 28 inches DBH, approximately 50 foot tall, with a 40 foot spread. My recommendation is to donate 10 number one Florida oaks, 12 feet to 14 feet, with a three-inch caliber to be planted throughout the village to replace the lost canopy.

Is that in in addition to having to replace the a tree on?

The property well to replace the canopy in specific areas. It's gonna be impossible So what what the arborist wants to do is spread out the trees throughout the village where?

Yeah, but the question is will any of those be placed on this property?

Okay

Alright, so, yep. Mr. Hornstein, first, do you agree that there's a violation?

I'm not sure if there's a violation, to be honest with you.

Okay, so no. Alright, so please explain your side. You can start whenever you're ready.

Sure. The tree had branches falling off all the time. Public Works had been to my house a few times to pick up the branches. And, you know, it was just a hazard. I had hired, I first, I have the emails in here. I had, I hired, I called Public Works. I left messages. Nobody ever got back. The only time they ever came out was to pick up branches. I hired an arborist who came out. And there's a certified arborist report in there. and it tells you that the tree was in decay, branches had been falling off, and his recommendation was removal of the tree, no re-inspect, whatever that means, and this is a certified thing, you guys can call him however you want to deal with it. There's also a Florida state statute that says that on a right even though it's not on my property that this should be sufficient enough to remove the tree now I I sent an e-mail to public works with the report with everything on just e-mails in there on September 23rd I sent them this e-mail I even offered to pay for it to take the tree down and put another tree in its place which I'm still intend to do okay because that you know I want the canopies on my property to Nobody got back to me. October 2nd, I sent a follow-up email, which you could say. And I'm just following up. The tree is unsafe. Branches had fallen in the past. And again, I attached a statement, the arborist report. And again, I am saying that I would be happy to mitigate and pay for the installation of a new safer tree on the property. I offered this. Finally, on October 3rd, Delroy Peters, Public Works Director, sends me an email and says, Miami Shores Village does not have a tree removal ordinance, that I should contact the county about having the tree removed. Okay, so I contact the county about having the tree removed. The county basically tells me, well, you can get a permit and all that. It's going to take like six to nine months to get this done, number one. Number two, we're really not even sure. It's not on your property. We're not even sure who's supposed to get the permit. whether Miami Shores needs to get the permit to take it down or whatever. And the person in the county also said, with the Arbus report, it should have been enough for Public Works to come and remove the tree. So, you know, that's where we're at. So, I mean, there is no tree removal ordinance. This thing, I'm building a house. You know, this tree is falling. It could fall on a car. It could hurt a kid. This is a park. People come by there all the time. And I fully intend to put another tree there. I even offered to pay for this. But, you know, I mean, I realized, you know, when I got the violation, yeah, I took a tree off the property, but I gave Public Works every opportunity to do the right thing, and they didn't. Now, this guy, you know, I didn't get a report from them saying the tree was safe. If they would have provided me with a report, then I would have had my arborist come and they could have disputed it. But I never heard anything from Public Works saying that the tree wasn't, you know, unsafe or safe, whatever, you know. These are all the emails I got. The only email I got back from Public Works was Mr. Peters telling me that there's no tree ordinance, tree removal ordinance in Miami Shores. That's all I got. So basically, I interpreted that as they're putting the onus on me to have to deal with this tree. And so now it's my responsibility. If this tree falls and damages somebody else's property, I'm assuming I'm reliable. With that same tree with its roots buckled up the sidewalk, I got a code violation three or four years ago. I had to pay for the fixing of the sidewalk. It's not my tree. It's the city's tree. But I paid for it.

Mike, is this an easement or is this Miami Shores property?

And the estate statute that he mentioned only applies on private property. And also the arborist did speak to his contractor exactly what to do and what not to do.

Yeah, and I mean we're having from I mean obviously I'm sure you engaged with the arborist before the September 22 date, but I mean we're talking just over a month between the arborist and the removal. That's not, in government terms, that's not enough time.

I understand that, but the branches are falling off the tree.

Yeah, but that's not your property and you're not liable for that. It's on Miami Shore's property. It's not your tree.

I get that, but the problem is if that branch falls and damages one of my workers' cars or hits a kid or does something.

Yeah, but we're not talking about pruning the tree.

I'm not talking about pruning the tree. I'm talking branches were literally falling off this tree.

I understand that, but I'm saying we're not talking about pruning the tree. It would have been possibly a different result had the tree been pruned.

They didn't give me that option. They just told me to contact the county. They said there's no tree removal ordinance in Miami Shores.

Well, because he's not weighing in on the tree. That's what I'm inferring from this, right?

That's fine, but nobody weighed in on the tree to me.

Yeah, I don't think I'm not. It's my well, it's Miami it's not yeah, it's Miami Shores property Then why did I have to pay to replace ten sidewalk squares?

I I can't speak to a different case but I'm just saying but in the past in the past I have had to deal with this and if that tree fell on my house is Miami sure is gonna pay to fix my house they would I didn't know that I wouldn't I didn't know that well if and when you proved that the tree fell because of you know some malfeasance but if it's just a force majeure they're not gonna pay No, I get it, but the branches were falling off the tree, and I had an arborist report, and that should have been enough for Public Works to come and remove that tree. They didn't respond.

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, but at that point, at some point, you should have escalated to the council or the village manager, you know, like, I'm sorry, but I mean, we're talking a four-week period here between the arborist and the tree removal at most. You know, that's not exhausting all avenues before.

I get that, but it's a danger.

Yeah, but it's also not your property.

I get that.

Yeah.

I understand that. But it's like. But they put the onus on me to go to the county to get a permit to remove their trade. So, yeah, it's not. I mean, why did I have to do that?

No, no, no. They didn't tell you to get a permit from the county.

Yes, they did. Go look at the last page of the email from Delroy Peters. It says, as a village does not have a tree removal... It doesn't tell you to get a permit.

It says, as a village does not have a tree removal ordinance, please get in touch with the county tree program for information on county tree requirements. That has nothing to do with...

But it's a village tree.

Yeah, but that's not telling you that you have to get a permit from the county. It's not telling you that you can remove the tree. It's telling you who you could possibly discuss with it if it belongs to the county and not the city.

Well, it belongs to the city, I was assuming.

It looks to me like Delroy is not assuming that. It looks to me like Delroy is saying he's not sure who owns the tree.

Well, I don't think it's a county tree.

Well, there's a county ordinance for old growth removal and things like that. So that's what he's saying to investigate further at the county.

Look, I was willing to plant it, put another tree in its place. I want a tree there.

Yeah, but the problem is you can't replace – there's no 40-foot tree that you can purchase to replace it.

Yeah, but the tree was a dead tree. I mean, it was a sick tree. At some point, it was going to come down. It was going to do something.

What am I supposed to do?

Yeah, I mean, we don't – from the city arborists, we don't have that. I understand that's not my problem, but they're telling me – but the public works was telling me that I had to go deal with it.

They're not telling you that you have to deal with it. They're telling you that you need to find out what your rights are and what you can do.

The people at the county said with the arborist report, it should be enough for public works to have taken down the tree.

Well, I mean, had you given the, if they had had the arborist, I don't know the schedules, you know, like I said, it's small government, 30 days isn't going to be enough to cut anything.

I understand that.

So if the arborist had then come out with your arborist inspection and inspected the tree itself and then said, you're right, the tree is diseased, it needs to come down. different story right even if you did it without permission at that point still different story right because the city saying yeah we agreed that the trees diseased. Right now we have an arborist report that doesn't say anything about the tree being diseased it just describes the dimensions of the tree. It shows this at my office reports of the yeah but it's not the city's arborist the city arborist could have a differing opinion.

He didn't they didn't convey that to me though yeah.

It's not really something that the city had to convey to you, though, right? You were expressing your concerns about a tree that they own on their property, and then it's up to them to decide what to do with their tree.

But, you know, like I said, branches were falling off. I felt it was a danger. I fully understand the predicament. I probably shouldn't have, but I took it into my own hands to take care of it because I'm concerned. And I plan, you know, look, yeah, I can't plant a 40-foot tree, but I plan on putting a tree there, an oak tree or whatever. I think to buy 12 oak trees.

Well, the thing is you can't plant a tree there.

Well, I would pay for it.

Yeah, but, yeah, you can't.

I would pay to have it done. In the emails I even said I would pay to have it done.

Yeah, but it's not even about paying to have it done, right? It's up to the city to plant a tree on there.

It's really about having the patience to go through the process. I understand that, but the branches were fine. It doesn't matter.

You could have had the patience.

Go ahead. So it's important. I work in another municipality, and what I often tell people, because I engage with the public every day, It's from your fence line or your property line to the middle of the street. That is where every municipality owns that property. But it's a responsibility of the homeowner to be able to address certain situations. A hole opens up, the sidewalk raises because of roots, a dying tree in your opinion, and you got a report that indicates that. It is your responsibility to notify the appropriate authorities, which it looks like you did, The chairperson's point is you didn't wait enough time. And so you took actions because you felt that it was a hindrance and a possible danger to your neighbors and your workers, but still it wasn't your responsibility or your right to take that action because the action you did take was Notifying, getting emails, contacting, doing that, and that should have been suffice. Now, if the tree, God forbid, had fallen on somebody, it wasn't your responsibility because you could have proven in a court of law when someone takes you there to find out what Mr. Hornstein did, they would say, hey, he went well above and beyond the call of his responsibility because here's the proof. Now the onus falls on the village. So to the chairperson's point is four weeks is not enough.

I understand that. But, you know, but in the, I mean, I know it's not, but in the past I've been responsible for, you know, paying for things that that particular tree caused.

You shouldn't have.

You're right, I shouldn't have. I didn't know that, but I wasn't aware of that.

And so what I'm trying to do here is educate you. No, I understand. But I understand. That if it's on city property or village property, it belongs to the village or the city. They're responsible for that.

Well, there are some maintenance tasks that you as the adjoining property are required to do, like mow the lawn, keep it clean.

Correct. I understand that. They're not the issue.

May I, when please?

Yeah, when you're done.

Barry?

I think this is a complicated situation and we could spend the next hour talking about what Mr. Hornstein should have done and whose fault it was and whether the village didn't do what they were supposed to do or did do what they were supposed to do. But that's not going to really change anything. I'd like to progress to the point where we start to talk to Mr. Hornstein about what we can do to fix it.

Yeah, so right now the arborist, correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, the arborist is requesting donating to the city 10 number one oak trees that are 12 to 14 foot tall.

Correct, with a three-inch caliper.

Okay, with a three-inch wide trunk. Okay, and did he happen to mention what he estimates the cost for each one of those is? No. No, okay. All right, so at this point, that's where we're at, right? So the city is requesting the penalty would be to purchase 10 number one... Florida oak trees, 12 to 14 foot tall with a 3-inch wood caliber, which I'm assuming he means diameter trunk.

So what's that mean? I have to buy 10 trees? Well, not yet.

We haven't voted on it yet.

What if these trees are like 50,000 a tree? All right.

What's going to happen is the village is going to buy the trees and plant them, and then Mr. Hornstein is going to repay the village. Correct. So I don't know how we can come up with a price tonight.

Well, I think the city usually does it this way with the donate because you can source and make your own deals for trees. They also will offer you up the people that they purchase from at that price if you can't find a better price. If I remember this happening in the past.

Mr. Chair, my opinion is that Mr. Ornstein and the Public Works Department once again communicate And that way, because remember, we are the ones that are going to plant the trees, not him. So he needs to purchase the trees. Yeah.

But we're bearing the cost of them planting the trees and then maintaining the trees until they take hold. Correct.

Everything that entails with the tree, the planting and everything. So it's a conversation he should have with public works.

Approximately, does anybody have any idea how long that would take?

I don't have a clue.

Okay, one of those trees go on the property in front of my house.

I want to put the tree back. How long would it take for public works to finish that process?

What I would suggest is that, what I would suggest, and we can have a vote on this, what I would suggest is we table this until he can have a meeting with the arborist. and they can come up with a plan because, like he's saying, if he's going to pay for, you know, 10 trees, maybe he gets the arborist to say, well, put two on your fronts on that area. Or, you know, I mean, or maybe he says, okay, I'll agree that it was diseased and we'll go to eight trees. And, you know, we then either come to an agreement with that or we come back and vote on it again.

And there's also a factor, the availability. availability of the tree. Because there's a lot of trees.

He's specified a specific species of tree because the arborist is trying to change some of the issues with the city's trees.

Mr. Chair, I don't see how Mr. Hornstein can agree to write a blank check. I mean, he may be willing to.

No, I agree, I agree.

So here's, I'm going to make the suggestion that like you suggested, we table this until next month. So that Mister Hornstein can get in touch with public works and they can tell you what they feel it's going to take and give you an opportunity if you know to accept that deal or contest that deal yeah I I would specifically say with the arbors and I think entries is a little excessive because I mean I mean from I mean it was a dead tree yeah well because our situation here is that we've either got to adjudicate this case tonight and it very likely may go against you Or come back in a month and possibly everybody can come into an agreement on how to fix it.

I mean, I already offered to them to mitigate and buy trees. I mean, I already told them that. But to buy 10 trees, these sound like very expensive trees.

You know, we're kind of... Narrow in our focus, you know, I understand I've been listening to you But you know, we have a code violation in front of us and we've got a limited number of options We can either find you innocent we can find you guilty and start imposing a fine tonight which will be a lien on your property and Or we can table it and come back and try to settle it next month. I'm going to move, if it's okay, that we table this until next month.

That's fine with me. Just modify the motion that it requires a meeting with the arborist.

And who do I meet? Who do I call?

What is his schedule? He's not full-time with us.

The arborist? He is full-time. Okay, good.

And you'll put Mr. Herrnstein in contact with him? Sure. Okay, excellent. Okay, so you modified the motion.

Did you second the modified motion?

All right. We can do, we'll call roll on that one. Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Board Member Berryman? Yes. Board Member Rodriguez? Yes. Board Member Pearl? Yes. Board Member Hahn?

Yes.

Board Member Buenconcejo? Yes. Chair Huber.

Yes. All right. So, you know, we've kicked the can down the road, so hopefully you can have a productive meeting with the arborist, and hopefully it's enough time. You know, I think with the holiday season, I know we're going to lose a week in the middle of there, but hopefully it'll be good.

I'm not going anywhere.

All right. All right. Thank you. All right.

All right. All right. I'm trying to think of our schedule. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone else present for first hearing? No, sir. All right. At this time, Chair observes that there have been no appearance by anyone on behalf of the alleged violators in connection with case 0524319. case 0525127, case 0725193, case 0925287, and case 0925288. Mr. Director, do the case files on all of these matters contain affidavits attesting to the existence of the code violations alleged and demonstrating proper notice to the alleged violators of tonight's hearing?

They do, Mr. Chair.

All right. At this time, I will entertain a motion for summary adjudication.

Mr. Chair, I move for summary adjudication of all such cases to include a finding of fact and a conclusion of law that a violation exists as charged in the representative notice of violations issued. In each such case, the offending party shall contact the I'm sorry, shall correct the violation within the time period specified by staff in the staff's recommendations for these hearings and immediately notify the code enforcement officer when the property is brought back into compliance. In each such case, if the violation is not brought into compliance, within such time period, the code enforcement officer may report this fact back to the board in accordance with the board's rules and regulations, at which time a fine is hereby authorized to be automatically assessed against the violator in the respective daily amounts specified in staff's recommendation. for tonight's hearing retroactive to the original compliance deadline, which will constitute a lien on the property of the violator. Further, with respect to each such case, cost and the amount specified in staff's recommendation for tonight's hearing are hereby assessed in order to recoup the village's expenses in prosecuting the violations to date.

Do I have a second? Second. All right, Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Board Member Hahn?

Yes.

Board Member Berryman? Yes. Board Member Rodriguez? Yes. Board Member Perl? Yes. Chairperson Huber?

Yes. All right. Thank you very much. Do we have anyone present for second hearing?

No.

All right. Also on tonight's agenda, as a matter of staff's request for orders imposing previously adjudicated fines as a penalty for lack of timely compliance with the Board's prior orders, I will now call the penalty cases on the agenda. case 052538, case 032569, case 0825222, case 0825225, case 0825233, case 0825242, case 0825248, case 0825250, case 0825255, case 0825260, case 0825262, and case 0825243. Mr. Director, the files in all these penalty cases contain an appropriate affidavit demonstrating in each such case the violations referenced in your request continue to exist subsequent to the date on which they were to have been corrected in accordance with the previous order of this board and that to date no one has contacted Neighborhood Services to advise these violations have been corrected.

They do and they have not, Mr. Chair.

All right. I will now entertain a motion to impose fines.

Mr. Chair? Second. Second.

Yes.

I move that in each case currently remaining in the penalty bucket for tonight's hearing, it is respected by the auditor in order to pay the daily fine previously indicated and authorized to be imposed against the entire order of the board. Retroactive from the date, the violation must not be corrected. And upon recording the board's order in this regard will constitute a lien on the property of the auditor.

All right. Do I have a second? You still have a second. We still have a second. Excellent. Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Board Member Rodriguez? Yes. Board Member Pearl? Yes. Board Member Berryman? Yes. Board Member Hahn? Yes. Board Member Buenconcejo? Yes. Chairperson Hubert?

Yes. All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone present for a request for relief?

We have four individuals present. The first one is Soyla Gallardo and Barbara Beltrano.

All right, if you would approach the podium and state your name and address for the record.

There we go.

Good evening, board members. My name is Barbara Beltran. I own the property at 1210 Northeast 97th Street alongside Zoila Gallardo.

All right, so. We are here for case 1094-2022, weather watertight structures, unsightly house exterior, unauthorized storage of materials, fine amount $58,850, fine amount $2,200, fine amount $2,200. Case 1224-2020, housing violation and unsightly house exterior maintenance of private space, fine amount $54,300, fine $2,400, fine $2,400. Case 1023357, unauthorized construction, expired permits, fine amount $18,000. The grand total is $188,350. The amount proposed is $1,500. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

So very briefly, Zoila purchased this property in August of 2021. She purchased the house with an existing violation already on it. There was a trust issue, there was unsafe structures issues, and the city allowed her six months to cure the violations. During that period of time, Zoila hired an architect who ended up taking her money, did not provide any services. As a matter of fact, Zoila has taken her to small claims court and is in the process of suing her for that. Nothing happened. The six months came and went, and it started to turn into a lien. During that time, there was Zoila does admit to having done some work to her kitchen without pulling permits. That also turned into a violation and a lien on the property. Unfortunately, Zoila Zoilas, both her parents passed away in Cuba. She was called. She had to travel to Cuba unexpectedly. Both her parents died within days of each other. She fell into a severe depression. The property ended up going into foreclosure, and the liens continued to accumulate. Fast forward to this year, 2025, early in the year, Zoila reached out to me, and she asked me to help her with her situation in which I stepped in. We bailed her out of the foreclosure, and I have done everything possible to be able to cure the violation and to now ultimately satisfy or mitigate this lien um we ended up demolishing the property after we received the permit from the city we did the work We closed out all of the permits in a matter of three weeks, and we're here presenting ourselves to you, asking for relief. Zoila, you know, she has fallen into a financial hardship. She has had medical issues. She has a heart condition that she's currently being treated for. She is seeing a psychologist for Very many things that are happening, all of these things have affected her severely, and we just want to comply and put this behind us.

All right. And your relation to the property is you're just helping her or you're purchasing the property?

I'm an owner of the property currently. I'm not purchasing the property. I'm on title. And the hope is to sell it, have a successful sale, get rid of the lien and just move on.

Okay. And is the property currently for sale?

The property is under contract.

It's under contract for how much?

1.5 50. Okay. All right.

So the, the issues prior to 2022, so the 21 and earlier issues, they aren't on here. Um, was that a reasonable accommodation? Was there a, an agreement with the city to A lot of times when an existing property has violations and a ton of liens and fines on it, the city will enter a reasonable accommodation with the new purchaser and that's usually when they give them six months to bring the property into compliance and basically waive most or all of the fines. Is that what the property was originally?

I believe that it was a reasonable accommodation. I believe that Zoila did what she could, and unfortunately, she couldn't meet the deadline.

Okay.

Mike just got back. Maybe he could verify if there's a reasonable accommodation.

Yeah, Mike, is this in your zone?

Yes, sir.

Okay, do you remember if this was a reasonable accommodation? It seems like it would have been. don't recall any reasonable accommodation you don't okay all right yeah and honestly it would be it would be better for you if it wasn't a reasonable accommodation because it kind of the you know the point of the reasonable accommodation is to severely reduce the fines allowing the property to get sold and it's kind of the the stick with the carrot right to make sure that the property doesn't continue to languish in this situation

Forgive me, I misunderstood the question.

Okay, that's fine.

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. There's two residents that would like to speak, public comment on this particular case.

All right, let's run through and see if the board has any more questions for them, and then we can bring them up.

I have a question. Go ahead. You're demolishing the structure?

It's already gone.

We already demolished the structure.

It's just a lot.

It is just a lot, yes.

Oh, yeah.

Now I know what this is now. I know which house this is now. Yeah. Do we have any other questions or comments? All right. Do we have... Yeah. Yeah. If we have a, yep, I just need you to swear in. You didn't swear in. Judalyn, can you swear him in real quick? All right.

Brandon Spirk, 1200 Northeast 97th Street. I'm the immediate next door neighbor to this particular property. While I have no opinion as to the degree to which you might consider forgiveness or mitigation of these liens, I do have some concerns. The work that was done without a permit was most certainly much more than just a kitchen. In fact, we had a petition that 14 neighbors on our street signed with photographic evidence which included underground plumbing work that was done, complete demolition of the interior of the home. At one point there were illegal people living in the garage. We suffered profusely day after day of people that were living in Zoila's garage that were having late night conversations on their phones. We called the police on numerous occasions. This essentially was a nuisance property. And so we were relieved to see this house demolished. In fact, many of our neighbors celebrate it. And so we are very hopeful that these liens could ultimately, the mitigation of these liens could ultimately lead to the successful transfer of ownership of this property. But we would respectfully ask that the Board consider a couple of points. And if I may just read some of those points. One, that any sales and arm length transaction, and so in other words, this transaction can't be to a related party or to an entity controlled by the current owner. Two, that the transaction occur within a 15-calendar day period. Three, that any release that the village consider be held in escrow with instructions to record only concurrently with the deed. And then four, if the deed is not recorded within 15 days, the ESCO release is void and the full amount of the liens is reinstated. And then five, that all administrative costs be collected at the sale from the seller's proceeds. The idea behind this is that because there's been acts of bad faith, work done without permits, red tag orders that have been pulled down, work that's continued to transpire, the need to call the police multiple times. We just do not want to have this neighbor on our street anymore, and we want to make sure that this sale does go through and that it's not another bait-and-switch type effort. So that's my comment. I thank you for your consideration.

All right, thank you.

He needs to be sworn in as well. Yeah, Ms. June.

Are anybody else here? No, it was just them two.

It was just those two. All right, please state your name and address for the record.

William Harrington, 1229 Northeast 97th Street. I'm also a neighbor of Brandon's down the road, and I verify everything you said is true. The suffering we've gone through with these neighbors is incalculable. People marching up and down the street with ankle braces. She was running a halfway house there. I even had meetings here regarding it. It was not holding up with the standards of Miami Shores Village. So in my humble opinion, I say her fine should stand as is and every care should be taken for her not to proceed with a fraudulent conveyance. Please use extreme caution when dealing with these people. Yeah, the previous owner of the residence should pay every fine levied against her over the course of her ownership. You deserve the money, and we deserve you getting the money for having to put up with these neighbors. That's all I have. All right, thank you.

Mr. Chair, I just learned that there's another speaker that would like to.

Okay. I'd like to.

Yeah, yeah, we'll come back around. Yeah, we'll come back around. All right, please approach the podium and state your name and address for the record.

Hi, how are you? Daniel Pueyo, 174 Northwest 108th Street and nine other addresses, I guess. I'm actually the party under contract to purchase the property. So we are definitely not related. We have several properties that we're developing. I'm a resident of Miami Shores. Love Miami Shores. We're trying to break through through some new properties in Miami Shores East. So when we came across the property, we saw all the hardships and we know that there's a lot of financial situations with the current owner. So we're trying to help them. We were actually the ones helping them with the demolition and the permitting and the whole process too. It was pretty exciting. We got that house down in about three days.

Yeah.

But it's been a roller coaster, and I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel here. So I don't know if you guys have any questions for me.

Yeah, what's the name of the company? Element Construction Group.

Okay.

Yeah.

I have some questions. I have some questions. All right, hold on.

Okay. Do you have questions for him or for somebody? Okay, go ahead.

Did you want to go first? No, no, go ahead. So I'm curious to find out in your research before you took, I guess, the opportunity to purchase this property, did you see the... What was happening with the house prior to her receiving it?

We had no clue.

You had no clue what it was?

Barbara had a sign for sale, and so we contacted her. She's also the broker for the property as well. So we negotiated back and forth, and we kind of said, look, this is where we need to be because ultimately we're going to knock down this house and it's going to be a brand new construction that aligns with all our other design and architecture plans that we have. And yeah, we found out slowly but surely, actually through the neighbors during the process.

So you can attest when you walked in, because I'm sure you did a walk through some of these violations.

We didn't do so much as a walkthrough as we started demolition almost immediately. She was, you know, we asked to please have everything moved out that she cared about. So, you know, she was there moving stuff out for anything personal. And then we went in. There was a lot of stuff that we had to demo, so. Barry?

Question. Mike, do you have the ability to access the internet from where you're sitting? Do you know how to go to the county clerk's website and tell me if there's currently a mortgage recorded on this property?

Or Ms. Rodriguez, do you know how to do that? I'm going to defer to my colleague.

I'm going to do that. Ms. Miranda, is there currently a mortgage on the property? Who's holding the mortgage?

Palermo Lending. And how much is it for? Palermo Financial. It's for $900,000. However, what you guys are not seeing is that there are two other investors who have put money into this property. So right now, after the tax liens have been paid off, after the carrying costs have been, because that takes up a big portion of everything, there are, there's, There's a very high interest rate. This is a private loan. There's a very high interest rate. There are two other private investors who are on this property who do not have a mortgage on the property but do need to get paid at closing. There's a tax lien on this property. In addition, there have been fees and costs that have gone into doing the demolition, pulling the permits, and all of the fines moving for Zoila, who has had a financial hardship So yes, Element is here. He is part of the buyer. This is an arm's length transaction, absolutely. We have worked very well together. I have been very transparent with him as well as he with me.

It's not an arm's length transaction. So that means that we would know each other or we'd be related.

Well, but there's transparency in the transaction. This is a real estate transaction, right? There's transparency. to Element and to the buyer.

To their point, they lost their homestead exemption. Their taxes went up. We just saw that this year.

The taxes have gone up. We just received another tax bill. So these are all things. There is no profit to be had on this property. There is no profit to be had. Another thing I'd like to mention in response I think that it is my personal opinion that this is a conflict of interest, considering that this neighbor over here, to my understanding, is part of one of the boards for the city. He has a personal vendetta against her. Everything that he has claimed is an allegation, has not been proved. There have been multiple calls.

You answered my question about five minutes ago. Thank you.

Can you please go to the microphone? Yes, of course.

Should I sit down?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. I don't think we have any more questions for you. Maybe do.

Mr. Pearl, we don't see anything.

I'm finished with my questions.

All right. Do we have any other questions or comments?

Yeah. Mr. Chair, I'm just concerned about your delegation that is not true or false with regards to your neighbor. I don't think you have the right to say they're false or not. On the other hand, this contractor as a different purpose versus your purpose with regards to this request for relief. So whatever your testimony about the problem with regards to the finances, et cetera, that's not the concern of the contractor. Their concern is different. They just want to buy or sell the property.

I understand.

So that's my comment.

Judalyn, if I were to ask you a question, could we have a short recess for that question? Sure. I think it would be best to. OK. Let's do two minutes real quick. I just need to. All right. We're back in session. Thank you very much. Going back to the board. Does anyone have any other questions?

I have a couple.

All right, go ahead.

What's your relationship with a potential buyer?

With a potential buyer? I don't have a relationship with him. I'm the broker on the transaction.

Are you involved in the future ownership of the property in any way?

No.

All right. And I'm sorry. from Element Construction. Who paid for the demolition? You did, okay. And is that coming out of the purchase price or is that on top of the purchase price?

In addition, did you pay for the permitting and all the ancillary costs for the demolition? That was by the homeowners or the owners?

Right around the corner from that. I get it. She does have a lot of hardships financially, so we want to make sure that we're able to close.

All right. Any other questions? Go ahead. For Element, the plan is to build a new property and then put that on the market? Yes. Or that's not going to be residents for anyone involved with your company?

Unless my annoying business partner calls me. Excuse me. Chair, if we can, on the microphone, please.

Turn your mic on.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Step up to the podium. Sorry. She can't hear you on the recording. Better?

Yes. Thank you. So at the moment the plan is to sell that, put the house in the market?

It's a sell it, yes. We've got two other properties that are ground ups as well on the shores that we're doing.

Do you have prospective buyers or is this a spec build?

It's a spec build, but we build our spec builds like we'd build one of our own homes. They're very special.

That's good.

What's the expected sale price?

Right now we're trending about $1,000 a foot in that area. So depending on what P&Z and what we're going to get approved for, 5,000 square foot house to 5,500 square feet, so between five and five and a half.

All right. I don't have any further questions. All right.

I have one for you, sir.

Okay.

Have you entered into any agreement that when you eventually build this house and sell it, that if you meet certain financial objectives, that there's any further compensation to the seller?

No, not at all. This is a clear-cut transaction. That's one of the reasons why we negotiated this price point is we know what it takes to get, and the time it takes to get a property developed in the shores. A lot of people think it's very quick. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, any further discussion? All right, hearing none, if you would re-approach the podium. So we are here for a fine amount of $188,350. The amount proposed is $1,500. Is that your best and final offer?

Respectfully, yes, and I would like for you to not consider what was said by the neighbors.

I mean, it's already been entered into evidence. So how long would you need to pay the $1,500?

What is the time frame?

30 days, 60 days, 90 days? 30 days. 30 days? Okay. The amount proposed is $1,500, payable in 30 days. Do I have a motion? All right. I move that receiving $36,000 payable in 90 days that we would accept.

Second.

All right. Madam Clerk, would you call roll or any further discussion, actually? Sorry. What was the number, sir? $36,000 in 90 days.

I think you're low.

You can counter. If you want to amend or you want to make your own motion. I have a second. You want to call roll, Madam Clerk?

Yes.

Board Member Pearl?

No.

Board Member Rodriguez?

No.

Board Member Buenconcejo?

No.

Board Member Hahn?

No.

Board Member Berryman?

No.

Chairperson Huber?

Yes. All right. All right. Do I have anything else? No. Okay, hearing none, the motion failed to carry. All right, I'm sorry, but you can reapply for the next month.

I'm sorry, why?

There was no motion to accept your offer. And I made a board proposal offer that didn't pass.

May I ask why it was not accepted?

It's one, two, three, six opinions. They all differed, I guess, and nobody wanted to approve it. You can reapply for the December. All right, Madam Clerk, do we have anyone else present for a request for relief?

Yes, next individual is Alan Caron.

Please state your name and address for the record.

Alan Karen at 250 Northeast 104th Street.

All right, so we're here for case 1024499, weather watertight structures, depreciation, maintenance of private space, failure to maintain sidewalk, unauthorized construction. The fine amount is $55,500. The amount proposed is $2. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

Of course, just first off, this is my first time attending a hearing here, so I was listening very carefully. I didn't get the opportunity probably due to, No fault of anybody in this room for the first hearing. Also, the second hearing, I don't know what I missed when my case was called. So apologies for that. But I just wanted to say I purchased this property in April of 2023. I filed for a building permit in June of 2023. It took me approximately six weeks to develop plans. I'm the third owner of the property. Two previous owners were the chief of police in Miami Shores. I went in front of the board for planning and zoning. I also went in front of the board, I believe the planning board, to confirm if the property is historical. At the time, it was deemed not historical. I've designed and added on 700 square feet to this structure in keeping the kind of Spanish Mediterranean design. I haven't over-developed, I haven't over-designed the property. It's a 9,300 square foot lot. The proposed structure, including the 700 square feet that we're adding, is going to be just over 2,600 combined. I could build a 4,000 or 5,000 square foot home and knock it, but decided not to do that. Solely the reason why we decided, because we wanted to use the time and push forward. We thought this process was going to be a lot faster than it has. Excuse me. We obtained planning approval and zoning approval shortly after we filed for our master permit and filed for our septic plans with the Department of Health and Derm. It was around this time we encountered an 18-month delay with the Department of Health and Durham. We had spent around approximately $5,000 redesigning a brand-new septic system. We submitted it. Around two months in, we were kind of realizing that we weren't getting any approvals, weren't getting any traction. Then all of a sudden, we got comments and corrections back, and they said, oh, you filed the old zoning or the old design, the code has changed since you've submitted to the now when we're giving you the corrections, your design is basically historical. So we then had to go spend another $5,000 to re-engineer a whole new system. What we were told the system was gonna cost approximately 15 to 17,000 for a new system of that then code. is now going to cost us $35,000. And then it took us approximately 18, well, in total 18 months to get the septic system approved by Durham and the Department of Health. I think it's evident with a host of people and residents in here that That's been a major issue for Miami Shores Village and many of the residents, and we're a victim of that. Obviously, I know that's out of everybody's control here, so I'm not asking for forgiveness on that. What's happened has happened. I'm trying to move forward and develop this home so we can move on. Sorry. I'm very serious about not stepping out of line, incurring violations. As you can hear in my accent, I'm not from here. I really want to be law-abiding and move forward and develop this home. I didn't realize that we had incurred a violation on the property until I had actually applied for a construction loan to finish the home. We're in construction at the moment. I didn't know we had a lien on the property until I obtained the information from the people that were trying to get a construction loan on. And they told me that we had a violation. I came to co-compliance here and discovered that I had $55,000 of violations on the property. We had got our master permit approved, if that's what you want to call it, in May of 2025. At no time of pulling that permit, paying the fees or anything like that was I informed by the village if I had a violation. I would have imagined that I wouldn't have been able to get an approved permit with violations on the property. I was. I was able to start construction and move forward. Again, another issue that we've been encountering, our shell contractor took advantage and stole $40,000 of our money around six weeks into the project. Yeah, so we've been kind of riddled with a host of issues here. Yeah, and I can go over the items that I believe are part of the violation. When we filed for the initial permit, after I got the planning and zoning, I filed for an interior demo permit so I could gut the interior of the home. When I purchased the property from the person, it was in a pre-foreclosure. The home was completely derelict. It was condemned. It was infested with many things that we had to basically gut the interior of the property. I got the approved permit. from the village, and I gutted it basically just to get the smell out of the property. I would have loved to have done exterior demo, but at the time it wasn't permitted in the demo permit, so I didn't touch the exterior of the home. This is where the violations, from looking back through it, I've been incurring. Dirty roof. a roof in disrepair, I would have loved to have demoed the roof. We're actually, there's no roof on the house now as in terms of there's no roof tiles, but we've had the roof off the home for approximately five months. And I was incurring fines during some of those times. Understood. that we filed for a master permit in June of 2023. I would have loved to have got the permit at the end of 2023 and finished the home in 2024, there, thereabouts. But we're here in November of 25, and I'm still probably six to eight months away from completing the home. With the delay of the septic permit, I probably incurred approximately $150,000 of holding costs on my mortgage just due to that delay. Obviously, I gutted the home. It's inhabitable. I had no power, no water, no electricity in the property. I thought this process was going to be a lot faster so I could get into construction and move forward, but I was dead in the water. I didn't have anything I could rent out or even really properly maintain to the best of my ability. Yeah, we tried our best to get everything moving forward. Dirty awnings. My plan has always been to remove the awnings, which they're all gone now. We're deep in construction. A detached garage and disrepair. We have an existing accessory structure. Disrepair for sure. Its property is almost 100 years old. And we had in our plan that we're refurbishing everything, bringing everything back to life as such. Broken wall is one of the violations. Yes, the home is definitely unsightly. I would love to continue to fix it up, but if there's a broken wall and I'm incurring a violation with an act of pursuit to get a permit, I think it's slightly unfair, and that's what I'm kind of asking for relief for. And then broken electrical wire, I don't really understand what that violation is. I can prove that we had no power in the property for 18 months. Yeah, and there's a host of other smaller items. I think it also said one thing about dirty sidewalk. We had, for a period of time, I will put my hand up, we did not have the grass maintained efficiently just after we purchased it. I thought we were going to be in construction. A neighbor of ours kindly said, hey, you're probably going to get a violation. So we had our landscaper go once a month to basically cut the grass. But we didn't have water, so it was basically... what you would expect with an unirrigated garden. It was kind of dry, it's kind of brushy, and it's not like the grass is five foot tall, you know? Yeah, so I'm coming here today understanding that there is a violation, there is a lien on the property. I can't get a construction loan to really expedite the completion of the project until I clear this lien and clear this violation and be able to move forward with the property. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at at the moment.

All right. Yeah, hold on one second. Okay. All of this is stemming from... If you had talked to code enforcement, as soon as you applied for the permit, this would have been put on hold, and as long as they saw that the things were continuing to go through the process, none of these things would have been incurring fines. The thing here is that... The reason we're here is because... You didn't have any contact for the NOV and no contact with the enforcement order with code enforcement. I'm not admonishing you of that. I'm just saying that next time, don't just ignore it. If you show him, right, because the building department and code enforcement, they're two separate departments. They don't sit down every week and go through every property and be like, well, I wrote a violation on this property. Does he have a permit going on, right? So the onus is on the owner to make sure that they know what's going on. Um, so I would just say that if you get another violation, another, anything, enforcement order, make sure that you might be working on it, but make sure they know you're working on it. Cause they'll put it on hold. It won't even come before us. He's he tabled, you know, uh, six cases today for the next meeting because the people were working on it, you know, this, so, um, I, I'm, and I, like I said, I'm not trying to admonish you. I'm just trying to let you know that in the future, it won't come to this. If you're, if you're in more communication with the city, um, Barry, you had a question, though, so I'm going to go ahead and let you go because I don't have any questions.

Okay.

First of all, I was proselytizing.

That's all right. Well, we do that. Mr. Karen. Yes. Are you planning to live in this house, or is this an investment?

I was planning on moving in, but unfortunately, with the way the holding costs has kind of eaten up, I'm probably $150,000 into it more than I expected. And then with this, I don't know, to be honest. I may have to sell it. Yeah, I'm incurring probably in total another quarter of a million dollars of additional cost that I wasn't expecting.

And how did you buy the property?

I have a mortgage on it.

No, I mean, did you buy it at a foreclosure sale on the courthouse steps, or did you buy it from the previous owner?

I bought it from the previous owner. In 2023? In April of 2023. Okay.

If I'm not mistaken, it was being foreclosed.

Yeah, it was a pre-foreclosure, yeah. That was listed on Zillow or Redfin, and that's where I identified the property. Okay. Yeah, I think at the time and the condition of the property, it's not like I stole the property in terms of I didn't get a 50 cent on the dollar and the property was inhabitable. Like it was it was you're familiar with this. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a I would have rather it was in better condition. I could have rented it out and we would have been having a different conversation now if I could get a rent roll from it. But unfortunately, since April of 2023, it's been a money pit. So I would love to move into the property. I love the street. I love the style of the home. I'm living currently in a Spanish Mediterranean home. to keep that. Where I'm from, we don't have those homes, so there's a level of romance with that.

Yeah, we don't have Spanish homes in Ireland.

Yeah. Mike, I see on the sheet that the compliance dates on these violations was January of this year. Okay, so when did you first identify these violations? Okay, so October of 24. They changed the way they do their case numbers.

A few months after you bought it. After reviewing this case, I noticed that

About it, 23.

The violations have not been cured yet. This particular case was not supposed to be before you this evening. The property is still in violation. Oh. Yes.

Well, that's interesting.

Yeah. This one slipped through the crack.

Uh, well, then. Why do you think it shouldn't be before us? It has open violations.

Yeah, the house has a roof, and essentially you have to close the permits to obtain a permit and close the permits.

So I think we're going to have to have this conversation with Mr. Caron in a few months when the violations have been closed out. We cannot... if what Mr. Order is saying is correct, and he's pretty good with his stuff, we cannot entertain this kind of a discussion as long as any of these violations are still uncured, which is not the same thing as saying that we won't consider it, but we can't consider it tonight, if I'm understanding this. Is that pretty much what everybody else understands how this works? So basically, so we just wasted everybody's time for the last

Yeah, I just looked at the case now, and I noticed this discrepancy. So I apologize for any inconvenience. You need to open permit, get the permit, and go through the process, and then close the permit. You're missing a roof. You don't have a roof on your property.

I'm in the process. Yeah, like we're deep in construction. I have the interior of the property fully framed. I'm refurbishing the pool. I just spent $35,000 putting in this brand.

You need to finish the paperwork.

Which paperwork? Are you talking about the master permit?

The violation, not finishing the house and not getting your permits closed out. I'm saying you need to get the violations closed.

So I have a weather tight structure issue here, which means because there's no roof.

Well, the problem on it isn't because this might come before the board at a later time. I do advise you all to stop talking. But do talk to Mike and he will further instruct you on your next step.

Yeah, unfortunately, like you asked me a very genuine question, my moving in the longer this goes on, the less likely I'm moving into this property. And I like if I can just speak for a second, I think when I discovered that I had a violation on this property, I came to the city arguably the next day when I met with Luis, he very much understood my temperament of like, how do I fix this? I have multiple emails going back to Luis and a host of staff members here basically saying, hey, it's been three months in a row that I've been saying I can't get my construction loan to pay out the rest of the home. Yes, can I start? Let me interject for a second. I can't finish the home, and the time is of the essence. Just one second.

Just dragging on. Just one second. Julian, what would be the board's opportunity to re-adjudicate the enforcement order? Because this would have been a summary adjudication. No, I understand why he's here right now. But what I'm saying is that we could table this until later in the meeting, finish our next request for relief, and then enter into a discussion to re-adjudicate the original enforcement order. That's my question to you, if that's a possibility. Because I personally, I mean, we could vote on it at a later date. So what I'm saying is we could table this. That way we're not making the next person hold up, you know, deal with that request for relief and then come back and enter in further discussion if, you know, if you need time to research whether or not we can do that. You know, but that way we possibly could adjudicate, you know, finish this today. But also I don't want to hold up the next person If we can't, right?

Because if we can't, then we're going to continue to... Because there's no re-adjudication because it's gotten to this point.

Well, it's still in an enforcement order because he hasn't finished it. So we're not technically at a request for relief. So it's still in an enforcement order.

Do you have the last order?

It would have been the order. Yeah. So why don't we do this? All in favor of tabling this until after the next request for relief, say aye. All opposed, say nay. Aye. Ayes have it. Okay. So if you just give us an indeterminate amount of time to figure this out. Yeah.

Mr. Caron, I'm going to reach out to you, okay?

No, no, no. We're going to try to swing back around to this today. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, yeah. We're just going to not make. I don't know whose name this is. Elizabeth Shallow.

Okay.

Okay. Ms. Shallow, we're not going to make her wait for us to figure this out. So is this the next case? Okay. Ms. Shallow, if you would approach the podium and state your name and address for the record, and then we can take care of you.

Hi, good evening. My name is Jade Shallow, and I am here in regards to the property at 10619 Northeast 10th, please. I just want to thank you all for your time. I've really enjoyed living here in Miami Shores the past five years with my children. Unfortunately, I have to move. I had to sell my house. In the process of selling my house, I found out.

Hold on. Just give me one second. Let me get the housekeeping out of the way. So we have case 1314-2022, unauthorized construction, expired permit. The fine amount is $37,800. The amount proposed is $1,500. Now you can explain why we should accept your offer. I'm sorry.

I am in the process of selling my house. Unfortunately, I have to move out of the neighborhood. And upon selling my house, I found out that there was a lien against my house for $36,000. When I first purchased the home, I changed the door, the front door. I took out a loan and changed the windows. And I hired a general contractor to change the front door. And I hired a general contractor to change all the windows in the house. The general contractor that I hired to change all the windows in the house did their job and closed out the permit. Apparently, the general contractor that I hired for the front door did not finalize the permit. I was under the impression that the permit was completely closed out. So I'm proposing an amount that I think is fair for the permitting. I think that the $36,000 for the front door permit is a very exorbitant and high and unfair amount. And it's something that would be very difficult for my children and I to endure and I'm asking for you to produce the amount please

All right, so you did have a permit, and it just was an expired permit?

I came down here. Well, I hired a contractor to handle the permitting for me so that I could be in code and that I didn't have any issues like this. And I even came down here and paid the permitting fee, and I was told that there was nothing else to do. I asked if there was anything else I could do on my end, and they said that there was nothing else to do. And then I found out that there was a lien for $36,000.

All right, and to close out the permit, what did you have to do?

I had to pay $3,500 to hire another contractor. I had to hire a management company that knows the process. So I've already rectified this, and I've already paid $3,500.

All right, did they do the work again, or did they just have an engineer sign off on the work and all that?

No, I think they had to change the screws. They were not in the cement.

Okay, for the hinges?

Yeah, so now I'm in code, and I've done everything as soon as I found out to rectify the situation, and so that I'm asking for a fair relief, what I believe is a fair relief, and I hope you guys will as well.

Mr. Chair, how long have you lived here?

Five years.

Yeah, five years, okay. In those five years, the property's always been maintained.

It's probably it was probably supposed to be on the other request Okay, do we have any questions or comments from the board I for staff. So everything with this house is in compliance now? Everything. Yeah.

There's never been issues with the house, only this particular. Yeah.

And this was just an expired permit. She had pulled the permit and it was expired. Right.

So it didn't have final inspection. Yeah. Okay.

So, so I mean,

So the contractor pulled the permit, but just didn't close it? Yeah, well, he didn't close it, obviously, because he had a deficiency. Yeah, yeah, because he had a deficiency.

That's not her fault.

I'm sorry, is the house under contract right now? Yeah.

And when are you planning to close? It was supposed to be like 10 days ago, but we had to extend it because of this to the 15th of this month, hopefully.

Yeah, because the title company didn't want to override it? Yeah, of course not. What was the sale price?

I think it was a million. Okay. Originally listed at one four or one five. Okay. So it's been difficult market year. I had a really bad realtor that was working with wholesalers inside and I had to hire an attorney to fire her and it's been difficult and there's only a small amount for me to move with my kids left over and I really need every dollar.

Okay. All right, do we have any other discussion from the board? All right, so we are here for a fine amount of $37,800. The amount proposed is $1,500. Is that your best and final offer? All right, and how long would you need to pay?

30 days or 14 days?

Let's do 30 days. Yeah, we deal in nice round numbers. All right. So moved. I'm actually going to make a motion for $500 payable in 30 days.

I second that.

Thank you.

Ma'am, any further discussion? No. Ma'am, clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. Board Member Pearl.

Yes.

Board Member Buenconcejo. Yes. Board Member Hahn. Yes. Board Member Berryman. Yes. Chairperson Hubert.

Yes. All right. Thank you very much. um you won't be able to get the estoppel letter till next week so you know so it'll it'll take a few days for them to get me the paperwork to sign everything but it'll be there for closing yeah you'll need that letter for closing yeah the title the title might be willing to write over it because of the hearing but most of the time they want the estoppel letter you're welcome all righty so we are finished that do we have anyone else present okay perfect oh this is this this was the thick one oh the thick one all right If you would state your name and address, please.

Good evening, Avi Kolatsky from Miami Shores Lofts, located at 1316 Northeast 105th Street. And your address is? My address is 5401 Collins Avenue, Miami Beach, Florida.

Perfect, thank you. All right, so we're here for case 03-23-128, unauthorized construction, expired permits. The fine amount is $20,900. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

So I'm with property management. My understanding of the matter from being involved with bringing it into compliance as well as the history of it is that the property was acquired in late 2022, a little bit before 2023. There was a big storm that occurred, which ultimately caused some of the the planks to be removed and the owner at that time, which preceded our management, had planks put back in and a violation was subsequently issued. But more than that, it became a larger issue because this dock, which came with the property, was actually never permitted at all. This property is, I believe, a 1950s vintage or so. So after receiving the violation, the owner acted diligently. retained OSHA Consulting, which is a consulting firm, experts with Durham and South Florida Water, and all the various codes. So to date, we finally completed the project using Contour Marine, which is a very well-respected developer of docks down here and to date the owner has incurred expenses of over $50,000 between the consulting and the construction of the new dock. We are now currently waiting for Durham, the department with the city's, with the town rather, the village is closed out but we are now waiting on Durham to close that out. So it's the owner's position. Obviously, they're not scofflaws. They come into an area. Miami Shores was a new location for them where this is actually their only asset in the village, and they respect the rules and procedures. And they're currently requesting this because they did act diligently and expeditiously to have this resolved.

All right. now i'm just gonna the the city ordinances with the value amount that's required for permits can almost essentially we it's you guys are doing work without permits all the time everybody in miami shores does right it's like it's like i think it's 150 right is the threshold to require a permit $100, yeah. Change your light bulb. Yeah, if you have like a mercury arc light, it would be more than $100 to change the light bulb. So, you know, I would just... I mean, he opened up a big can of worms here with the, you know, because docks are even more touchy. What he thought was a good deed. But even, I mean, $100 worth of labor and wood, he was over that even if the dock was in good, you know. So just to be more, you know, just go back and make sure that they're more careful with any of the work that they do. You could be back in and... find out that some kitchen in the property was installed without a permit in 1950, and then it's a huge problem. So I would just be careful in Miami Shores with that. Do we have any other questions or comments? I just want to ask, is the property for sale or are you refinancing it?

The property's been for sale for quite some time, but there's been no interest. The property's owed cash. There's no mortgage in place. And I think the owners like the property. It's a beautiful property. It's on the water there and it's very peaceful. Tenants are very nice. And yeah, they're just respectfully requesting this because, you know, they... They did the best they could here and they spent a substantial sum.

How many units are in the property? Eight. Eight.

Yeah. Mr. Chair.

Yes, sir.

Just to confirm, the threshold for $100 has been removed. Okay. Yeah. We just confirmed.

All right.

How much is it now? There has to be. Well, we don't have to have a threshold.

It is what feels right.

They would have had to either raise it or then now you're saying every worker at the property.

Okay so everything you do now requires a permit. Because if they did a strike through they changed it to zero dollars so anything above zero dollars requires. I think we have to write a letter. Yeah, but it seems like they've edited it and just changed the amount. Yeah, we're back on track. I'm sorry. We can have that discussion later in the meeting. Do we have any questions or comments from the board?

Sorry, just to reiterate, they were, the owners were forced to tear down the entire existing dock to replace it?

They had to.

It was a non-permitted dock.

Yeah.

So they took the, the contra marine utilized the original planks, but they had to remove the pilings and bring the pilings closer to the wall and install additional pilings and it was quite a comprehensive job.

Did they have to replace all of the pilings?

I'm not, I think.

Well, it sounds to me they had to reduce their projection into the canal. Yeah. Yeah.

So these photos are of the final product?

It should be half painted and half like regular wood. Yeah. Yeah, because they utilize the old wood for the docking, yeah.

It's a nice blue.

Yeah, we want to get the rest of the way to look like that.

With the permit. Excuse me, Mike?

Yes.

Yeah, but then they fixed it.

It is. Only I was reading a statement here from Mr. Schwartz, and I'll read it. Throughout this time, we kept Mike Orta fully informed of our progress. He assured us that as long as we continue to provide updates, we would not be subject to running fines. I regularly send him progress reports along with updates from motion consulting to ensure full transparency and continued communication. At first, that was true to the letter, but there was a long hiatus that I didn't hear from anyone. And I would regularly, to avoid this situation, I would check regularly with the building department and ask the building official if they've heard of anybody, have they inquired about any progress, and the answer was always no. So that's why I drew the line. But at first, yes, they were. It's just an extension of the truth, I think.

Yeah. So there would have been room for them to work with you? Oh, yeah. Had they kept you in contact?

Yeah, I was just wondering when it happened.

When was the breakdown in the communication?

When exactly? I mean, this case was back in 2023, so... Yeah, I mean, he's... Two years?

Well, you know... I would say... Because you said they were in contact with you.

I would say about six months. Wow. Roundabouts.

Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when you set the compliance deadline when you've not heard anything, and that's why we have this 524.

And I totally understand this violation is on the water. Yeah, so it can take an extended amount of time. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. My question about the fact that we're at this point is, Did anyone from the HOA attend the first summons or the hearing for enforcement? Did anyone come to speak on behalf of them?

So I can't opine to that, as it was prior to my time with the development of the property. But I will say this about Mr. Schwartz. He's a very responsible individual. So I would imagine he probably did show.

Well, if he did, he probably wouldn't have had a lien that he didn't know about. So the thing is, for someone who's diligent and was doing all this, he didn't take part in any of the process that has led us to the point where he now has a $20,000 lien because he skirted some of the responsibility of this. You can't answer much because you weren't involved in this, ultimately.

I think, you know, in general, just with a project like this, which is why Ocean Consulting was retained is you need real expertise for something like this.

Oh, and that's completely understandable. The thing is there were, you know, there were many opportunities for Mr. Schwartz to have, avoided all of this you're saying having a fine issued in the first place yeah yeah having the fine issued when he had the notice of the notice of the initial infraction he could have come and spoke on that when there was the hearing for for enforcement because we hadn't heard anything he could have come and spoken spoken with us on that and that could have been deferred and because there's been no communication from mr schwarz on this this is why we're here on a understood meeting so you know it's great that he got the work done but he also spent a lot of the village's time in chasing him because he wasn't being communicative about what was actually happening so because of his non-attendance to this port the bureaucratical part of it he's sitting here with this fine which is why it's a little difficult to deal with because he was doing clearly doing all the other stuff right but was just ignoring a major part of his job as the property owner was interfacing with the village and showing up when he's been summoned.

So I can't speak to what occurred. No, no, I understand the village's position, but it just sounds like if he was in touch with Mr. Orta and, you know, for six months, and it just seems odd that he kind of would have cut off, especially when it's, so I can't speak to it.

Yeah, I mean, it is, but it's unfortunately something that we see fairly regularly, but sorry, I don't have any further questions.

Okay, do we have any other discussion? All right, hearing none, we have a fine amount of $55,500. The amount proposed is $2. Wait, no, sorry, I'm on the wrong sheet.

I'm on the wrong sheet. I put the wrong one away.

Yep, okay, so we're here for $20,900. The amount proposed is $500. Please, is this your best and final offer?

Yes, it is, respectfully, just due to the cost of this whole project.

All right. And how long would you need to pay? We could pay this immediately. 30 days? Yes. All right. The amount proposed is $500, payable in 30 days. Do I have a motion?

Mr. Chair.

All right, Barry.

I move that upon receipt of $3,000 within 60 days that the lien on this property be released.

All right. Do I have a second?

Second.

All right, Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Board Member Hahn?

Yes.

Board Member Buenconcejo? Yes. Board Member Berryman? Yes. Board Member Rodriguez? Yes. Board Member Pearl? Yes. Chairperson Hueber?

Yes. All right, so what has happened is that your motion, your proposal didn't pass. Mr. Pearl made his own proposal of $3,000 payable in 60 days. You can choose to accept that and pay that within the 60 days, or you can come back at a later meeting within the 60 days or after the 60 days and try for a different amount if you guys so choose.

I'll accept on behalf of the property owner. Okay. Great. All right. Thank you very much.

And have a good night.

And that was I was stacking my papers because we were done and I pulled the wrong paper up to the top Yes, please So I was asked by the chair whether or not we can move forward with this case so our code in section I 2-81D provides the methods in which that we can modify, reduce, or satisfy a fine. Unfortunately, we've gotten to the point where we are at a lien reduction, so we have to follow

Well, we're not at the lien reduction because the case isn't closed.

Yes, I understand that. So that is one of the methods, right? For us to hear a mitigation, the lien has to be closed and there has to be no other violations on the property. The code provides a second method that a code enforcement lien may only be modified and reduced when unusual and exceptional circumstances exist that would make it inequitable to enforce such lien to the full extent of its that it's occurred so that's another method if the first method is not in place that we can hear a mitigation so that determination has to be made by the board first to see if we could move forward with this so in essence what you're saying is our only other option is a basically the the conditional You have to find, the board has to find that this particular circumstance by this applicant is unusual and it's an exceptional circumstance.

But it wouldn't be in essence the same as the conditional mitigation process that we do? Yes. But it would just be for an existing owner, not for the new owner? Yes.

Okay. Yes. Yeah. So you have to make that determination that, you know, it's inequitable if we were. Yep.

Can you explain?

Okay, so we have a process. I don't know if everybody's been here during this. There's a process that used to be ran by the village manager. It's a conditional mitigation. So in an effort to get a... derelict property back into proper shape and Miami Shores with people occupying that the new person, typically, and it's always been up to possibly the state, a new owner where there is a fee applied and then the liens are held in abatement and as long as you produce, you know, in six months the house is completed, a year, whatever it is, and then the liens are vacated, right? But it's an upfront fee that's paid And then the lien, if all of the other parts of the conditional mitigation are effective, then the liens are vacated, right? But the upfront is a fee. It's, you know, that's how it typically. It's non-refundable. Yeah, it's non-refundable. And basically the liens reattach if the conditions are not met, right? So if the property sells to another person, if they go for a year and don't do anything on the property, whatever it is that the.

Let me ask a question. Okay, on these conditional liens, Yes. Doesn't, in fact, the lien stay on the books until the whole thing is finished? It's not that the lien is waived. So... So let me finish. And if that's the case, that's my understanding that, you know, with the conditional mitigation is a way to get around making a settlement where there is an open violation. People come in and they say, I can't buy this property and fix this with all these liens on it. So we say, okay, fine. You know, we come to a settlement the typically the new owner pays the village a fee up front and then when everything is finished, all the conditions are met, the deal is closed and the liens are withdrawn. I don't see how that's going to help Mr. Karen because he needs to get refinancing. And if the liens are still on the books, the mortgage companies are not going to help.

It works for new homeowners who are getting a mortgage.

Yeah. So that's part of the process. Yeah. It's not just the active violations. It would also be violations that previously existed that had money attached.

Right. Right. So are the liens going to is the county clerk going to.

So get a release of lien so that when his mortgage company does their check they're gonna see that there's no liens Well, he would get in a stop But we can come back around to it if the contract is satisfied and I Understand that I just wanted to make sure that we were gonna it doesn't come up as a lien anymore because it's basically been washed and Okay. But it's a pending fine.

Well, it almost assuredly would still come up. He would have the estoppel letter saying that at some point in time it won't. Well, that's what I'm saying.

But in terms of for the lender, I mean, it doesn't register as a lien in the same way. Okay.

I just wanted to make sure that we were not spinning our wheels here. Okay. So we could help him.

Yes, so you can. Just some caveats, right? So this would still be a mitigation of the current liens. As previously stated, he does have open violations. So if code enforcement were to go out tomorrow, and he gets a new violation, he gets a new violation, and that would be a different process. Also, this particular mechanism, I don't believe that this is one that the board has utilized for lien mitigation. So just so you understand the standard, because as you, I don't want to set up any precedents or any... I just want to make sure that everyone understands, right? You have to find that this is an exceptional circumstance and it's unusual. And if you do not go forth with this particular lien mitigation today, it would create an equitable situation for the property owner. So that is a high standard. So in evaluating that, that is what you're working with. So if the board would like to take a vote on that before you move forward with I would advise that the board vote.

So I would move that we go forward with a conditional mitigation process being that the owner has made all efforts to pull permits and Do demo and things like that. And if it had been caught earlier, we would have been in this process. I feel like this is something that we have done before in conditional mitigation. It's just we've never done it with the existing owner before. But we've definitely vacated liens against the property with the conditional mitigation process. more money than this. I have a question too.

Also, I don't know if code enforcement, if they have any

Yeah, if staff wants to weigh in.

Yeah, like, because I know that staff has stopped, you know, liens and, you know, fines in the past.

Yeah, I mean, my preference would have been, but you're correct, my preference would have been to re-adjudicate this, but the problem is we're too far down the line. There's already the lien attached. If we were able to catch this earlier, I would have re-adjudicated this, but I think you are correct. We're too far down the path to do that. But if staff has any input on, you know...

I'd rather speak to council before I say anything about that.

Okay. Do you want to do that now? Yes.

So brief recess, Chair? Yeah, brief recess.

We're in recess now, so just don't.

If I could just have a moment so I can get an explanation.

We'll wait until it comes back.

Yeah. It's crazy, man. I can't tell you.

Back on the record? All right, we're back on record. Thank you very much, everyone. I forgot where we left off. Who was asking questions?

Yes, so I spoke to staff, and staff is of the opinion that this does not create an equitable situation only because... When it comes to a conditional mitigation, you're switching property owners, right? So in utilizing this particular provision, it works because it's a new property owner. But since it's the current property owner, the violation still exists. There's nothing that's barring code enforcement from going out next week seeing that there's no roof and still fining the property owner. So we're kind of going back to square one. And also, this fine mitigation option is still open to the property owner. a week, a month, or two months from now. So it is, I understand the board's opinion of wanting to utilize this particular method to help out the property owner, but staff is of the opinion that it doesn't necessarily solve anything, and it's not putting the property owner in any negative position, especially since they can come back at a later date to reduce the fines.

No, I understand. And this is why we'll vote on it. But my plain text reading of, you know, even our intro and everything is that we are here... not to necessarily uh like the fines are not what we're here for right like we're here to ensure that miami shores is a nice place to live and you know we want compliance you know rather than loving fines this is like the plain text reading so that that's this would be why i would be uh interested in in proceeding with um some way to abate this to ensure because uh i i'm you know, to ensure that somebody gets a chance to live in their house in Miami Shores, right? And it sounds to me and I mean, we can go back to staff that they've been attempting to go through the process and they didn't create the event, right? They bought a structure that had these issues and they've been um you know their their their testimony was diligently trying to get these uh permits and things um and they're trying not to just you know because one of the solutions would have been to demolish the property and they're trying not to uh demolish the property and um they're trying to maintain what possibly could be, for Miami Shores, a historic property. So these would be the reasons why I made the motion that we proceed with the conditional mitigation. I think we should have a vote on it.

Do you mind if I ask staff a quick question? Yeah, go ahead. No, we're still in discussion.

Yeah.

Are we able to see what permits are actively have been pulled and approved by building for this particular facility?

Yeah, because... Will that show permits that are in progress that aren't approved?

we could check all that yeah because i'm curious for example is there an active permit to put a roof on this house is there a roofing permit that has been approved to put on so if we if there was to get a loan construction loan tomorrow he could ostensibly start putting a roof on his house tomorrow so right now the only thing that's stopping this house from moving forward is this lien holding up the construction loan if all the permits are in place and ready to go and construction is available, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we get the house built, finished, because it is not a nice property at the moment.

So my concern is that if we

Don't go out of our way to ensure that He's able to get the loan that the property would languish for an extended period of time thus creating a For the for the neighbor and the neighborhood, right I understand that there's Costs associated with this there's there's issues with not non-compliance But if all the permits are already in place and approved up with building and it's basically the starting gun for this project. That being said, why weren't you present for any of your hearings? Did you not receive notification? What's your current mailing address?

8022 Northeast 7th Avenue.

And on record is... 250 Northeast, 104th Street?

No, I actually think so. When I purchased the property, I had a client of mine give me some funds basically to close on the property. And I think the violation notice that he never received went to his address, which is on Normandy.

Mike, can you tell us where it was served at?

I can, it's 865 Northeast.

Let's see, because we wouldn't have, so if you were here earlier during the meeting, that during summary adjudication for notice of violations, we ask if it's been posted. The answer is always yes, and they have documents. Then for the summary adjudication for the enforcement order, we ask the same thing, if it's been properly noticed, which is certified mail and everything. So we should have this.

Yeah, so we have a mailing address of 865 North Shore Drive, Miami. Okay.

You don't have association. Well, it was certified mail, so they got it. Yeah, yeah.

They didn't tell you. He either didn't tell me or he doesn't live there full-time.

Yeah, so it was properly sent and posted, but, you know, they...

I can't attest to whether or not I'm not denying that he didn't get it. I'm also more so I think my side has a part to play in this. So I just want to first off as well say in the middle of saying this is a whole new process. So when I put down $2 I don't want that to be a poor reflection of me. That's not me basically saying that's all I'm looking to give with this. There's a part at fault here that I have to be responsible for. Yeah, I just want to say that because I kind of wanted to say it earlier on. I didn't get the opportunity.

The other thing I wanted to know is this other Yeah. Are they on the title? Yeah. They're personally an owner as well.

Yeah. So the plan is that I'm an immigrant here. My plan was to finish the property. I refinance it, take out my construction loan and get a conventional mortgage. Then I replenish the money that I've borrowed from him. He's a client of mine that we've become very friendly with. And he's good enough to assist me in trying to get ahead here, basically. Yeah.

Unfortunately for you, it is his fault you're in this position.

Yeah, no, I know. That's why I'm standing here taking the brunt of all of this, because I have to be a big boy in the pursuit of getting this. So just on the permit-related items, we do have an active roof permit. The roof is sheeted. We have a flat roof and a pitched roof.

Yeah, I understand. I was just making sure that everything that's currently here

But you're saying the old roof has been demoed and you've already dried in the building? The back, the flat roof at the rear of the property is dried in and inspected. The sheeting has been inspected and inspection has been done on the first coat of like torch down or whatever the membrane is. The pitch roof from 104th Street, the old tile has been removed and we've added around 400 square feet to mirror.

There's no roof on the second part of the building?

It's just plywood. The property was kind of positioned. Well, you've sheeted it. Yeah, I've sheeted it. Yeah, it's sheeted. So you haven't felt it and tiled it. No, no. I'm trying to reinstate the property to even more of a historical impact. What was there before was the S tile. What we've already paid for and purchased is the true barrel tile. We're paying probably 20% more. Clay or concrete? Clay. Like, I'm very passionate about these projects. So, like, I have all of our travertine material that I've purchased in Italy, which I've, from contacts of mine, I've got at good rates. It's all in Miami. We're not putting, not, this is a personal thing. This property is going to be beautiful, hopefully, when we finish it. There's no artificial material going into it. It's travertine interior, exterior, the kitchens.

But it's not currently listed as a historic property.

No, no. At the time of when I went to planning, I basically said, we're okay with it. I'm going to build it.

Yeah, with a deed restriction for a historic property. I understand.

Yeah, it's not like we're going to... put these gigantic windows. We've already put the windows in the property. We've reinstated the windows in the whole structure, and it's matching what was there previously. And, yeah, we've gone above and beyond to keep the arches and even in the new addition. So we really want this to be something special.

Do you want to proceed with it? Yeah, I think we've had enough. Bear, you got some?

Just a little bit. I have two comments and a question. I know. Every time we meet here, one of the first things that we say is that this is about compliance and not about fines. And I agree with that 100%. But fines are the only tool we have in our toolbox. If there were no fines, I can guarantee you we would be the only people sitting here at this meeting tonight. Nobody would ever come for any reason. And unfortunately... This situation is not that unusual, given the complexities of doing projects like this. So I think when we come down our list, it's either got to be unusual or inequitable. We're stuck with inequitable. We could maybe work with that. But my question for Mike is, what would it take to close the open violation that you see that's keeping this case from being adjudicated normally?

What would he have to do to fix that there's some extensive work that needs to be done in this property obviously so it's not just like. Yeah, with the tiles are now there's there's there's there's there's plenty involved show okay.

Yeah, so it's just not something he can do in a week or 2 weeks. No. Okay.

The only the only and just to the only reason why I think it's. unique is that, and feel free, staff, if I'm incorrect, but they have started the process from, they were actively working on the process of getting the house renovated, it just seems to me that there was the gap in communication. There's been due diligence for everything else. We're not here complaining about that they did work without a permit or they're ignoring and they bought the property and started working on getting the permits. the notice of violation and the enforcement order got missed, and which often happens, which hopefully the people learn they don't do it again the next time that they put in the correct addresses for receiving mail. And we've had this instance before. But it's the confluence of all the issues is what makes it unique to me. It's not just that, because each one of these five different issues that have brought us to this are not unique.

It's the confluence of the issues is what's unique, I believe.

He's got himself in a bind. So in terms of structuring the response to this, what does anybody have in mind? What do you need? You need to refinance.

He needs a construction loan.

He needs a construction loan. He needs a construction loan. There's a lien on the house.

Needs to not have a lien.

The mortgage companies, the financing companies are not going to do anything. If we make a deal here tonight... He'll get an estoppel letter. Okay, fine. Now, if I'm understanding your idea, that means that we agree with Mr. Karin that let's say everything will be finished and fixed within, I don't know, a year, two years? What would you need time-wise?

I'm going to put fluff in this. I don't think it's going to set more than a year from where we are. I know what we have already organized. We're able to move forward with plumbing, mechanical, electrical. The roof will be on. We're keeping the existing pool. It's getting new equipment. The septic is in.

You think you need a year?

Yeah, I think I need less, but I also just don't want to be in a position where, yeah, so I'm just being transparent.

Well, I think in the previous mitigations we've done, and this is to kind of keep it active, we would set, I would, if I were to make the motion, set it at six months with possible extensions

Oh, so this is not a conditional mitigation. This is a lien mitigation, which means you're accepting an offer from him.

That's the exact same thing as a conditional mitigation. It's a conditional mitigation. The process is we take an upfront fine, a fee. The lien stays at exactly the amount it is of the $55,500. if the conditions aren't met in the mitigation this will return the fine or fee that is is gone that that this amount comes back as exactly the way it was well actually it'll be more well it would be more because it would have continued to grow yes yes

But the standard in the code is different. And the way that it works out in the code is different. So it's not because I've heard the discussion and there's different standards that's been thrown around. But it has to be that the situation is so unusual and extremely It's an exceptional circumstance that it leads to the property owner.

Yeah, and that's the vote we will have first, whether or not it meets that barrier, right? So the first vote, if we would have a vote, whether or not that it meets that barrier first. that we can then proceed with the conditional mitigation. Then we would enter into the discussion, if it passed, that we would enter in what conditions we would put on the conditional mitigation. And then that would have to be a separate vote.

It's not a conditional mitigation. It is a conditional mitigation. No, it's 100%.

There's no difference between the one owner and the second. And this is my argument, that there's no difference that we can enter into a conditional mitigation on a property that has violations that will continue to have violations. The only difference is whether or not it's changed hands. Because all the previous conditional mitigations that we've had is that the property has changed hands. That's the only difference here, right? Because those properties were in violation, continued to be in violation for a set amount of time after the conditional mitigation. And the entirety of the point was that they would bring the property into complete compliance at a set deadline. They paid an upfront fee and all those. And we've had projects where the conditions haven't been met. So all of the liens reapplied, and then they've come back in and asked us to enter into a new conditional mitigation. We've had that scenario as well.

Does the distinction between the owners?