Historic and Environmental Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

you you so so

Pledge of Allegiance.

Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. You may be seated.

Okay. Everybody who is here in the capacity of a lobbyist, please pay attention to the following lobbyist's note from our city attorney.

Any person who is a lobbyist pursuant to Chapter 2, Article 6 of the City Code must register with the city clerk and comply with the related requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the Historic and Environmental Preservation Board. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering. A copy of the code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office or online on www.municode.com.

Thank you. Mr. Kalmas, do we have any changes to the, oh sorry, let's go with a roll call first.

Thank you. Calling the attendance, calling Chair William Hopper. Calling Vice Chair Mr. Luis Prieto y Munoz. Present. Thank you. Calling Mr. Najib Campbell.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Mr. Christopher Cauley.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Member Elvis Fuentes. Calling Member Julie O'Dell. Here. Thank you. Calling Member John S. Perez.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Member Robert Powers. Here. Thank you. Calling Member Hugh Ryan.

Here.

Thank you. And calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Here.

Thank you. We do have quorum, and also Dr. Harper requested an absence waiver.

Do we have a motion to approve the requested absence waiver? Second. Do we have a second? Thank you. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Moving on, do we have minutes from the October meeting to approve? Do we have a motion to approve or modify? Move to approve. Okay, it's moved and seconded. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Okay, do we have any changes to the agenda, Mr. Kalmas?

There are no changes to the agenda at this time. Wonderful. We'll move on to monthly updates.

I have no monthly updates at this time.

Let's jump right in.

Full-blown efficiency today. Just kind of going before we get into the public agenda, just a reminder to the board members, carrying on from the last month's meeting, the process for board members to ask questions will proceed as it did previously, with a slight change that we will go in order of seniority based on board appointment. So when it comes time to ask questions of the public agenda presenters, we will proceed through that sequence. So wait to be recognized, and then you'll have the full breadth of time required for your line of questioning. All right, we're ready to proceed with the public agenda. Mr. Comas.

I do want to advise as of 3.09 p.m. this afternoon, there are no online public comments. May we close the online public comment portion? You may. Thank you so much. Thank you. Now go ahead and read HEP 1. This is file ID 18504, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board granting or denying the appeal filed by Lynn Paisley of an intended decision BD25-015732-001 issued on October 28, 2025 for the property located at approximately 2444 Southwest 21st Street, Miami, Florida. This is file ID 18504.

Thank you. Is the appellant present? I believe the city would be the counterparty of this matter.

I also have a presentation that I'll need to put up at some point.

I think that the... We begin with the city side, correct, Mr. Colmus? Yeah, so you'll have your opportunity after the city presents this, and then you'll be able to proceed.

Okay.

Please give your name and address.

Good afternoon. Karen Facey from the City of Miami Environmental Resources Department.

Thank you.

You may proceed. Please proceed.

Sean Smith, Environmental Resources Coordinator, City of Miami. Thank you.

I'm going to read the staff report. The subject property is located within the residential zoning district T3R and is currently under review for a new construction permit for a two-story single-family residence. The applicant is seeking approval for the removal of several trees located within the property due to the direct conflicts with the proposed building footprint and related improvement. The applicant proposes to remove one mango, one coconut palm, and one areca palms to accommodate construction. As mitigation, the applicant has proposed the installation of four new hardwood trees throughout the lot in compliance with chapter 17 of the city code. Additionally, there is one avocado tree located on the adjacent lot, 2452 SW 21st Street, whose root system extends onto the subject property and into the proposed building footprint. The Arborist Root Exploration Report recommended root pruning to prevent construction-related damage. Staff verified this recommendation during the site visit and determined that the proposed root pruning of one root is appropriate and necessary. There are two specimen trees located in close proximity to the proposed improvement. Based on staff inspections and the arborist's finding, these trees are not directly impacted by construction activities and are therefore to be preserved in place. In accordance with Chapter 17 of the City Code, a tree protection bond is required to ensure proper preservation during construction. A site inspection was conducted to confirm existing condition, verifying the Arbus report and evaluated the proposed mitigation plan. Staff found that the information consistent with the city's requirement under Chapter 17, environmental preservation. Supporting documents include the development plans, which is the L-01 disposition plan and the L-02 planting plan, showing existing trees and proposed improvement, as well as four certified harvest reports submitted for this property. Staff recommendation. Environmental Resources recommends that the appeal of the tree removal permit is denied and the intended decision be upheld. The permit as approved complies with the requirements of Chapter 17 of the City Code by providing adequate mitigation, ensuring preservation of existing specimen trees, and requiring proper root pruning and bonding measures for the tree protection.

Thank you very much. Madam.

At some point it would be nice if Hector could put up my screen for.

We can do that. In the interim, could you give us your name and address for the record, please?

Sure, yes. My name is Lynn Paisley, and thank you for allowing me to speak here. My address is 2452 Southwest 21st Street. I'm a native Miamian. I am a teacher at Mass Academy. I've worked there for 33 years. And I live just down the street from here at about a mile down 27th Avenue in Shenandoah. I love my neighborhood. The city's job, reimagining Shenandoah Park, is nothing short of awesome. I wish every neighborhood in Miami had such a welcoming, well-used, beautiful spot in their neighborhood. The underline is within blocks of us. The underline is a triumph of design, will, and government working for the people, all sparked by one woman, Meg Daley, with a dream for a better Miami. But I believe that something is rotten in paradise. The character of our historic neighborhoods from Coconut Grove to Silver Bluff and now Shenandoah is being gnawed away one lot at a time by developers with zero respect for the character, scale, and aesthetics of our homes. They are simply interested in covering every square foot they can of any lot they acquire with as much concrete as they can legally pour so they can sell to the highest bidder buildings that look more like bunkers than homes. They walk away with the cash while neighbors like me are left holding the bag permanently. And what's in the bag? Where adjacent neighbors once saw sky, we are peered down on through plate glass, or worse, left to stare at blank concrete walls as close to the lot line as allowable and as high as permitted. All those impermeable structures wall off water's natural flow and downpours, making future floods more dire. Breezes can't blow through concrete. And finally, our concern today is that trees are felled to make way for all this progress. Whereas on one hand, city and county officials agree on the need for more tree cover to fight heat island effects, absorb stormwater, provide habitat for wildlife, and importantly, contribute to community well-being, on the other hand, they make it easy for developers to remove large, mature, and healthy trees, such as the 30-year-old mango in question, when they don't suit builders. Required replacements may or may not be on the property or even in the neighborhood, with the promise that they will grow really quickly to be big and strong and even more resilient than the original. In my experience, that ain't how trees work. And I think it's disingenuous to say otherwise. I'm not only concerned with the fate of the trees on Admir's lot, but I'm also concerned with the 30-foot tall avocado in question that's going to be root pruned in order to make room for the new construction. If you look at the arborist reports, it says root pruning, while not ideal, is the only recourse. But if that tree sickens and dies, who bears the replacement cost? Worse, if that tree is weakened from the east side and comes down in a hurricane on my house to the west, who pays for that? And you will be cutting back branches from the east side as well because those are hanging over their lot. So the weight's going to distribute towards me. Finally, I'm also concerned with the tree on the swale, which according to today's notes, is not going to be touched. But if you look at the plans for the property, the driveway goes straight through the swale at the point where one of the black olives is located. So I'm interested in knowing what is the plan for that? Have they been changed to place the driveway elsewhere? And finally, I would like to quote the great Joni Mitchell, who said, don't it always seem to go that we don't know what it's got till it's gone? You take paradise and you put up a concrete block. What can we do about this? I'd like to show you some photos if you're interested, but I do need our tech person. Help me out, Kathleen.

Get rid of that.

Okay. That's not what I want. I'm having technical difficulties. I apologize.

Okay.

I didn't want to, okay. All right, thank you very much.

No, no, that's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, so this is what Shenandoah looks like. This actually is not on my street. This is across the street from an Admir property that's already been developed a couple of blocks away from me at 1746 Southwest 21st Terrace. So trees, houses, in keeping with the design of the neighborhood, the design language that's pretty clear, I think, to anybody who lives there. This is the property that they built across the street. So this is kind of what I'm fearing in terms of the construction. If you don't see the bunk arrest lines there, I can't help you. Look at the house next door. Look at the house on the other side. Imagine you being the person living directly beside that home. Here's a better view of what it looks like to the neighbors. Hey, Admiralty owns multiple properties around my neighborhood. There's three that I can count that I know of. One of them within a block of me, one of them next door to me, one of them a few blocks away from me. They're all in the process of development. One is almost finished. The other is an empty lot now. And then you have the house next door to me at 2444, which is still standing. And there are many companies just the same. And the code's nod to environmental impact is really not sufficient to allay the fears of homeowners that see their neighborhood being destroyed by these properties. This is the street view. You can see the house, 2444, is really densely vegetated. The mango is on the back of the lot, the back corner of the lot, quite close to the corner. The palm tree is within feet of the back fence, so it is within that five foot area that's not to be developed. My house, if you're looking at the screen, is to the left. It's a 1925 house, so it's one of the oldest houses in the neighborhood. And this is the kind of vegetation that Miami 21 and other organizations ask for us to have in terms of ameliorating the problems of climate change and heat islands and everything else that Miami is going to face coming down the line. All of those trees provide habitat. I'm a tropical Audubon ambassador. I have seen red-shouldered hawks that live in the trees on the street. There are Cooper's hawks. That's a ruby-throated hummingbird in my yard. There are painted buntings, cardinals, blue jays, mockingbirds, you name it. So that's their home as well. This is the plans for 2444 Southwest 21st Street that I purchased from the city in, I think it was August. And there's the driveway that goes directly across this tree that's to the left. The largest tree is not in the way apparently of the driveway that they proposed to build, but I don't really know how they can build a driveway around that one that's to the left of it. In my opinion, there really is a better way if we look at places like Shenandoah. That library is a modern construction, and it looks very much in keeping with what we want for our city. It doesn't look like a bunker. It has elegant lines. It uses construction materials that are native to Miami. It uses the landscape to enhance the design. The same thing with the area around the pool. It doesn't have to be this way. And I would ask you again, what is it that we can do about this?

And this is from Mr. Campbell. I took a look at your Instagram account.

Apparently, there are other ways of going about it as well, as shown here by this modern construction.

Thank you. Is that all you have for us?

That's all I've got for you.

Wonderful.

I think you have questions for me, perhaps.

Perhaps in a little bit, but we'll see if anybody from the public wishes to speak on this item before we move into that phase of the agenda. Are there any members of the public who wish to speak on this item? Okay.

Okay.

Thank you very much. Please begin with your name and address before you start with your commentary.

So I have to acknowledge I have a conflict of interest because I know the applicant, the appellant. My name is Kathleen Paisley. I live at 345 Redwood Lane, Key Biscayne. And the only thing I'd like to stress from my perspective as a lawyer and as someone who's been a Miamian for, I think now, 66 years, which is terrifying. is that if we look, for example, of what's happened to Key Biscayne, it is an example of what happens when zoning totally breaks down. They build almost lot line to lot line. Each of the older houses is totally succumbed to the other houses. It is really very difficult to live there, and therefore most people who lived there originally don't live there anymore. But the one thing I'd say sort of with respect to the technicalities I mean, in doing your job, you're very limited. I looked at the rules before they got permission for the house. The idea, if it's within code, it's within code. You can't do anything. And the problem is the code doesn't reflect the reality of what these houses are doing to the neighborhood, which is much worse than Key Biscayne. Key Biscayne Mackles were never that great. But these are beautiful 1920, 1925, 1930, 1935 homes that keep up the neighborhood of Shenandoah as a beautiful place. And the people who are building the new homes can build the new homes in a way that would be consistent with that vision, but they're not required to. But what you can do is... follow the lines, follow the rules on trees. That is within your discretion. You have a lot more discretion. But if all you're doing is rubber stamping everything, then who is going to protect these neighborhoods? Who's going to make it so that when my children and my grandchildren are grown up, they're going to want to live in Shenandoah and not want to leave like everyone wants to leave Key Biscayne because of these big homes? So I just ask you to think about that in making your decision. I understand you have discretion. You could say it's just plants. But the point is, one should look at the totality of the decision. And the totality of the decision is that a house that looks essentially like a concrete block is going to ruin that whole block. And then the next one's going to ruin the block next to that and next to that. And it's It's pretty much now or never, because what's happening to Key Biscayne 30 years ago is happening to Shenandoah now. So I would urge you to use your discretion to disallow the decision by the Environmental Board, as I know they're doing their jobs, but I think in their case, this case, we should exercise our discretion to be more limiting.

Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public wishing to speak on this item? Seeing none, the public commentary section is closed, and I will open to the board for questions, and we'll begin with Member Trachtenberg. Sorry, Jordan, before you go, I will point out, if you don't have a question yet and you just wish to kick the can down the road slightly, we'll come back. It's not so set in stone. But just to kind of keep some decorum as we go through the questioning, we'll follow the structure. So, Jordan, it's yours.

Well, I think if you're going by seniority, it would be Hugh. Wouldn't it? Well, you, he was reappointed.

That's true. Yeah, that's true.

Okay, I will take it then. Sorry, Hugh. Well, I'm going to, I'll just ask a quick question about the proposed design.

Do we have an example?

Do we have, besides the one plan, of what's being proposed? Yeah, because it's kind of hard.

Can you please speak into the mic?

Yeah.

I'm so sorry. I'll go back to the plan that I... This is the first floor.

Let me see if...

But this doesn't show the tree placement.

Yeah, you had like an electrical plan.

I have the tree placement.

I'm more curious about the... The new structure. Yeah, the statement about the imposition and all of that. I'm more curious about the statements about what the design is doing. And it's hard to tell in just a plan.

Yeah, it is hard to tell with just a plan. That's why I looked at the other properties.

There's somebody in the back through the chair.

Yes, you can approach.

All I have is a plan.

Please go to the microphone, state your name and address, please.

My name is Raul Roque. I am the owner of the property. I bring some rendering of the property to you to see better what we are proposing in the area. So we are keeping the driveway in the existing location to use the existing approach to try to keep as mostly as possible. So following the lead of the city, we are trying to give as much as we can.

I think the best way for this to go, since you're not really a part of these proceedings, would be if they have questions, they'll direct them to you, but limit the presentation to those questions directed to you.

Yeah, definitely. Thank you.

We appreciate that.

Jordan, if you want to engage. So I'm going to look at this, and then I'll pass on my... Very good.

Then we'll move on to Mr. Criscalli.

Yep. Hello, everybody. Miss Facey, Mr. Smith, how are you guys doing? Thanks a lot. Miss Paisley, a couple of quick questions. very detailed thorough analysis by the city staff here in the uh presentation so thanks very much and same to you miss paisley uh there's a lot of information here from a quick glance at the uh information um and i'm a landscape architect in arborist just as an as a point of reference because this is an appeal to a tree a decision from our environmental resources department right So it looks like there's like three items being proposed for removal, a mango tree, a palm tree, a couple smaller items, right? So I'm guessing that the main point of contention is the mango tree in the backyard?

The mango tree is the largest tree that's being removed. I don't understand why they need to remove the palm tree, which is a really beautiful palm tree, and it's right beside the lot line, so I don't see how that interferes with construction.

Sure. But I guess these plans are very, like a lot of landscape plans, tree disposition plans, it's hard to interpret exactly what's going on. But to me, the big picture seems to be that the really large tree in the front, in the right of way, looks like it's proposed to stay. It looks like there's a big tree on the neighboring property that has to be root pruned, you know, to make sure it's going to be okay and doesn't get damaged. I understand there may be some palm trees proposed for removal and then there's the mango tree. The catch here though is that, and I understand your point 100% about the architecture and everything else and the changing character of the neighborhoods. But from my perspective, what we're here looking at is this particular issue with regards to whether the tree permit be I understand upheld right and so I know from personal experience how thorough the city is in their reviews and everything else and I think that the long and short of it here is that that large mango tree in the back falls within their legally buildable footprint so I even though in theory I mean it'd be wonderful if every tree could be maintained everywhere I just don't know in a scenario like this where it's a very small property if it's okay to be able to prevent them from developing their property because of that tree. And then the comments about the zoning code and what's allowable and things like that I think would be more applicable at a different board or hearing because we're here for the environmental purpose of this. We have no architecture plans to review. So, I mean, I understand your point. Your point must be that it will be a major environmental detriment to remove this tree in the back. But I don't know that there's grounds to appeal the city's decision based on the information presented.

What's the mitigation? If we're talking about a mango tree with a trunk about this big around, that's 30 feet high. It's a 30-year-old tree. I know the age of the tree. It's a big tree. If you're planting something like this, four of them, it doesn't equal. And those trees died. The city came out and took out a live oak from the swale in front of my house and replaced it with something that promptly died. And they never came back to replace it in spite of the fact that I appealed for them to do so. They came and drew arrows on the sidewalk and they still have not arrived with the trees. So

I get it.

Small trees are not so hardy and people have to take care of them. What's the guarantee that those trees are going to be growing big and strong and beautiful?

No, I understand. And if it was a public park, you know, we would have a different perspective on it. But, you know, my thoughts, I'm just trying to, I may have a few more questions, but I'm just trying to kind of get to the, bottom of what's going on here and and again just in summary from my understanding it looks like a lot of the canopy along the frontage of the property all remains so and i know that that's complicated to do you know and so that they've made that attempt and i just wanted to be clear that it's not like proposed for you know clear cutting the right-of-way in that area that would have a major impact to your community thank you for the amazing uh presentation and the passion. Those are my only questions so far.

As an arborist, I have to ask you the question then about root pruning the avocado. This is a huge tree. Again, I know that they're going to have to cut back branches from their side of the tree, which grows over the neighboring property. That was never a problem with the neighbors before, hence I did not cut it. And it keeps the tree balanced. And you're going to cut a root that's from that side as well. What happens if something happens?

I mean, those are very good points, and that's why common trees on property lines are very complicated. I think that from watching this occur over many, many years, my guesstimation is that with the proper techniques, that tree will probably be fine. All the trees in these images are asymmetrical. They're not perfect trees with perfect canopies. All our trees here are survivors because they're all growing on rock, basically. There's not a lot of planting soil here and whatnot. And so, I mean, it's a great point. I think it's a good point. But I think legally you have the right to trim some of the vegetation that's over the Benchline anyhow as a as a homeowner.

So I understand that completely. Yeah, I'm not arguing with that but I'm saying that in the event that The tree has to be root pruned to make Room for the construction those other trees that you're talking about. Yes are large trees, but they're not Adjacent to a house, right? This is adjacent to my house And if it falls a certain way it is gonna fall on my house the trees and the swale will not fall on anyone's house and The specimen tree, which I believe is the flamboyant that they're leaving, is also likely not to fall on anybody's house.

So that tree is on your property?

The avocado is fully on my property. It is not straddling the property line. It is fully on my property.

So I understand. That brings up a really good point, maybe a question for our city council. Environmental Resources Department. So then what does that mean if somebody else's tree grows onto your property and prevents you from, you know, building within your own developable area in this kind of scenario? I mean, that's a it's a valid concern. I get it. But by the same token, your trees encroaching on their property.

The roots of my tree. Right.

So, I mean, this is why this is really tricky. And I mean, at least they're not proposing to remove the tree. They're proposing to do their best to just cut one root. And, you know, I'm curious what our city staff's point of view is on that.

Yes. So the root that we're speaking of, it is 16 feet away from the property line. It's running towards the rear of the lot. And the root that's being pruned is four inch in diameter is what they're pruning. It won't cause the tree to be destabilized to where the tree would fail and fall on anyone's property. In accordance to the Arbus report, the site visit that was conducted.

I don't want to take everybody's time here. I've already spoken enough. But I guess that's what I'm relying on is our city's expertise in also reviewing this information to ensure that a situation like that's not created.

Well, from their lips to God's ears.

Thank you again.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Cawley. Mr. Trachtenberg, do you have anything you wish to... I'm going to hold off. Okay. Then, Mr. Ryan, the floor is yours.

I share Mr. Cawley's thoughts on this. I live in Shenandoah. I lived in Shenandoah for... I plant trees on all my properties I have there. My family's been there a long, long time. My biggest fear living there in a completely renovated 1914 house is that, you know, I win. I win the old house award in here, is that in comes a big sugar cube that blocks out the sun totally out of scale right next to my property. You know, the thing is, is a lot of people that are doing this, they have the right to

I know.

And that's what we're up against. So I don't think the tree ordinance is the weapon or is the thing. I think it's just Miami 21 is built like that. And that's so unfortunate for the scale of our neighborhoods because every square inch is being built because...

They can.

They have the money and they can. And, you know, people that invest decades and decades into their neighborhoods... are the ones that are going to be put out because they have to look at a racquetball wall now, right next to the house. Yeah, I mean, we're laughing, but what I'm saying is there's nothing we can do unless it changes on city commission, which, you know, how long it took to make Miami 21? It took like eight years. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know. But I know, you know, we're not rubber stampers. So that was kind of, you know, we don't do that. We have our own minds and we do this stuff. But we're also bound by the rules. And we can't just do something because emotionally, like I'm talking here, I want the old house to be preserved. It's not a historic district to say it's an old house, which is my house is not a historic district. So the four houses in a row built in 1914, they can come in and they might next door and knock it down. And I'm not going to tell you where I live.

Tell me, I'll move next to you.

Yeah, but that's it. So, you know, I don't know what to say. I kind of agree with Mr. Cawley. What we can do here is go by the rules, which is mitigation for the trees that they're taking out.

So how can we make this better? Because we want a city that's better. We don't want a city that's being degraded. Mr. Roque, you can do something to make this better. Do something that makes the neighbors happy. You don't want to have a bunch of people. I mean, I guess if the only thing is you sell the house and then let the people who buy it deal with the... whatever, but I mean, why not do something more in keeping with the aesthetics of the neighborhood? There are other houses that are built in ways that keep with the aesthetics of the neighborhood and they're big. They do not have to look like this, something that is completely out of keeping with what we have and what people desire. Obviously not the people who are gonna buy your $2 million house, but most people. Most of my neighbors,

Well, that's something, to your point, that's something that I mentioned years ago in the Grove, when the Grove was an issue of knocking down the shotgun checks. This is pointless to go round and round, but what I said was the market value is determining this, the market. Nothing you can do. I mean, unless the five city fathers and mother make a change. So that's what you do. This board, we just kind of have to go by the rules.

So I didn't mean to be pejorative in saying anything about rubber stamping, but what I meant to say was, so the city comes, and the city, I'm sure they don't mean any harm by it, but they have a report, right? And Mr. Cauley says, well, we're going to defer to their report because they know what they're doing. So, well, that's what you said three times. But anyway, my point is just if we're going to then defer to the city with respect to what is good or bad with respect to the plants, then it really is, there's nowhere for the people to go even with respect to maintaining the plants. So if you assume that the mango's okay because that's too far over the backyard that would prohibit them from building their pool, we wouldn't want to do that. But then what about the other plants that are not going to prohibit the building that are the palm and cutting back the roots of the avocado tree and the third tree. Those are not that kind of broad footprint. So all I'm asking is that with respect to these decisions, that of course they're only about trees, but they're where you guys have some authority. And I would just ask you to look carefully before you defer to the city's report. That's all.

Okay. To your point, thank you for clarifying. With regards, we've done many cases in the Grove where we've talk to the architect about working around the tree. The difference here is we don't have a set of plans to approve or not approve. So that's not really the case here. And as far as its private property, someone else's private property, so if they abide by the rules, and then we have the root that comes from your tree and from what an arborist says, is that it's a four-inch root That needs to be pruned, and I'm assuming that there's going to be some sort of perimeter as far as construction up to the fence line based on that tree being there. That's really all that we can decide on right here. I mean, what I do is I fix up old houses as a contractor and my own sort of development, redevelopment. Not everyone wants to do that. Not everyone has the patience or thinks, and the money's there for what people do. So I understand where you're coming from, but also up here on the board, we don't have the, and if we were to override and make some emotional decision, it'll be completely erased when it goes up to the city.

Thank you. Moving on to Julie.

Hugh, I win the oldest house award.

Oh, you win. Yeah, 1909. Oh, okay, gotcha, all right.

And I feel for you, I really do. But we are in a situation where we have to go by the rules. And nobody wants to look at a racquetball court or whatever you said. Yeah, it's not anything that we can do. What you can do is have your house designated and have control over what you own, not what someone else owns. I happen to have a historically designated house, and that's the only way that the previous owners could keep it in the current condition.

Well, I hope that you don't get one of these houses.

I live on the corner of Main Highway and Douglas, so I'm pretty good. You're good. Yeah. It's a very busy intersection, but that's the only thing that is keeping our house where it is. or it would have been gone a long time ago.

I feel a lot of sympathy from this board, but I also don't see that we have a will here to see change happen. I wish that we... It just seems like we just accept this as just the way Miami is. We've been accepting things as just the way Miami is for all of my life.

And it's...

You know, beautiful things have happened. Meg Daly did a great thing with the underline. Shenandoah Park is a great place.

You know, but we'll see. The only thing that is within the board's purview are the trees. I know that everybody wishes that there could be some type of architectural review. However, if you would wish that there is some type of architectural review, you can explore designating your own property or working with your neighbors to create a historic designation. Beyond that, the board needs to keep their line of questioning, because please remember this is quasi-judicial, and to just what is within their purview, and that is the trees.

May I ask you just one question regarding historical designation for the neighborhood? I spoke with Ralph Rosado about that. He said that there's a designation below historical designation that might be something that we could, what is it called?

So we do have neighborhood conservation districts. I want to keep, we have a large agenda with a large amount of business. I got it. So you're happy to stop by and get my card or Ken's card, and we're happy to talk to you about the different types of options. but if we can just stay on topic. Thanks.

Julie, is that you? Najeeb?

Thank you. The most interesting thing I've heard so far is the point where Ms. Paisley made a friendly appeal to the property owner. because there is a painful reality that we as modern humans must accept, and that's the rights of expansion of building in a city, in an urban area. And most of your presentation was about stylistics, about the look and the presence of such a building in your neighborhood. And many of us agree with this situation. However, I will ask you, if it was an architectural recreation of a 1920s Miami bungalow, but just larger, and it did need to remove the mango tree, would you be in favor of it?

I would even be in favor of something that was a multifamily residence.

I'm not against... I...

I think it is the aesthetics of the neighborhood.

Okay. It was kind of a rhetorical question, meaning if the style is what we like, do we then allow this to take place? If it's the style we do not like, then no, it cannot take place. So do you see the issue? Would we on the board? One moment. And a lot of times we on the board get a lot of flack because we are not interested or We don't have the will and I think it's an unfair judgment because there are parameters that we have to obey and we cannot enforce style. That's why I said the most interesting thing was that personal appeal to the gentleman there, because the future is really about do developers have a holistic heart? Do they have a traditional heart to look at traditional style? Do they have a heart to look at the neighborhood and develop along with the residents? And that's the core of the issue. But we cannot say you can't build because we don't like the style of your architecture.

Because we're not Coral Gables.

Well, Coral Gables has its solid rules then. Like I said, the staff said, well, NCDs are something if you all gather as a powerful group and say NCD our zone, then that's something. And now you're by yourself now.

Yes, you're right.

If you go with a hundred of your neighbors, then maybe something can happen like how Coral Gables presently is.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

Mr. Bob Powers, what was yours? Okay, so this is kind of a loaded question because I don't disagree with you, but I would also appeal to the builders. There's a dozen different ways to build that property where he wouldn't have to hurt or harm any tree on that lot. You can do a raised pool. You don't have to dig a hole to put a pool in. You can put it above ground. and do all kinds of nifty shit that like is off the hook, okay?

No, you can, okay?

And I think that they're just doing the easiest, simplest thing. And it shouldn't be easy and it shouldn't be simple. Pin pilings would never have to cut the roots of your tree if you did a pin piling building. And anything that's built here in Miami should be built up off the ground anyway. All of our houses, any house in this neighborhood, mine is a 1947, is three feet off the ground. And that's a four-unit apartment building. But that four-unit apartment building is two stories, but it's 23 feet high. So it doesn't have to be 32 feet. And I got news for you. There are 1,000 square foot apartments, and they're absolutely stunning, those apartments. You feel like you're in a really big apartment. There are one bedrooms. So the thing here is this, is that what is lacking... is that there's no real artistry put to this. I mean, it's easy to build a block, square block, anything. The problem is they never make it square inside. You know, that's the problem. They don't have the craftsmanship to make it square inside. You know, I'm just saying, every building I've been in, all the artwork that's on the wall is all wonky because they don't even know how anybody who can put up the drywall properly. But that's another story in itself. I would appeal to him. By the way, I just want to let you know, 10 years ago, I went to your neighborhood to talk about the roads being a historic district and was met with so much opposition, you have no clue. So they weren't interested in saving their neighborhood.

The roads from the neighbors?

The roads, and the other one was Shenandoah. I did it for Jed Royer. Jed Royer called me up and asked me to come and speak to his neighborhood association about what was involved. And all the questions that they gave me, just to let you know, were all the questions that they already had to do in the city of Miami. They already have to go get color approval to paint your house. You already have to do certain things. So nothing going through a historic preservation thing would have been any different in that district. I'm just letting you know. So I did talk to Mr. Royer. Mr. Royer had me come in to talk to them about becoming a historic district because I live in the largest historic district in the city of Miami, which is Palm Grove. Because we said, yeah, nobody knows that because nobody writes about it. That's another story entirely. We protect our trees. You know, we don't care what the tree is or where, you know, and I got news for you. We just approved a project, much to my dismay, because I voted against it, where they lost four huge oak trees all along a property line, and it looks absolutely horrible. And they couldn't have built that, but that's a T4. So we didn't have really a lot of say over that property because we had to let it get built the way that it was. But you can literally reach out the window and touch the people next door to you. In a historic district, can you imagine? So, and the trees were at the mercy of the builder. The thing about it is that you have to talk to, we have three commissioners who are not historically designation sensitive. They don't care. Build, build, build, build. And that's the way that they look at it. And until you stop voting for the same people every time they run for office, there's not going to be a change in that. I'm just telling you. If you were in a coma 30 years ago and woke up today, all the names that were on the last thing would have been the same names that were from 30 years ago. Correct?

Correct? Correct?

Who did that? Not me. Well, I didn't do that either. But I'm just saying. So if you keep on electing the same, if you keep on electing crap politicians, then you get crap. And that's what we're in the middle of. And that's what we have to go through. That's the minutia that we have to sift through. So I'm in favor of your plan to protect the trees that are presently there. And that's the way I look at it. I'm sorry that we can't do more. I do believe that you should go out. Coconut palms move really easy. They're worth a lot of money per foot, and I think that that would be something that you should look into moving or moving to a new location, and that would be my only exception to what they've asked for is to cut down that coconut palm. I would have them move it to another location only because it's not that expensive of a thing to do, and they could do it and save it. If they put the pool above ground, he may not have to cut down the coconut palm, but that's a decision, or the...

The mango.

Mango. I'm just saying.

I think that the idea of moving the coconut palm is something that I also thought would be really reasonable.

I'm just saying that would be my exception to the rule. But people like you have to go see your commissioners and demand more protections for this stuff.

That was the first person I spoke to.

Yeah, I'm just saying that that's where the change comes from. I mean, we can, all day long, you're talking to a bunch of people who really don't want, don't hate having these things come before us because there's really very little we can do but to appeal to the builder to build more sensitive projects and think a little bit more outside the box and maybe, but that's not a historic district so we'll never even see those drawings. Because we're here to protect the trees.

Mr. Roque, do me a favor. Go see Shenandoah Library. Go see Shenandoah Park. It'll help sell your house anyway, knowing about it.

Thank you, Bob. Mr. Perez.

Or through the chair. Lewis, may I ask a question?

Let's let Mr. Perez go, and then we can take some redresses from the board members who've already gone. Sounds good. The floor is yours, Mr. Perez.

Hi, John Perez. I'm in a bit of a tricky situation. I'm an architect, a builder, and a developer. So I sympathize with, I guess, you and also the developer. I guess I would want to give... The other perspective, obviously, I am for preservation of trees. I love trees. All my projects have way more trees than are required. Good. But I truly plant more trees than are required, and larger trees than are required.

Good.

The tricky part is when a developer buys a property, I wish the economics were there where a developer could currently buy a property, underdevelop it, and still make the numbers work. I understand that not a lot of people are going to sympathize with the big bad developer who makes a lot of money. I understand that's the way they're portrayed, we're portrayed sometimes, but there are economics behind it. And I wish, and I'm sure other developers wish they could buy a property, and again, build something small and interesting and unique. I think most people dream of doing that, but the reality is a lot of projects wouldn't work. And I understand that the people that currently have homes probably would like to keep the houses as they are. There's a market out there and there's people that also are looking for homes. I'm not saying either is right. I'm here to give another perspective. Obviously, there's other perspectives that counter mine, but I guess I would just encourage you and other people to consider that aspect of this. With regards to the tree, I guess I would have a question. If you could get everything that you wanted, would it be that this person just simply not develop a new building on this property and all the trees remain?

If I could get everything I wanted, they would not develop that building on that 50 by 100 foot lot next door to me. And if they wanted to plant it up with lush natives, have at it. That's what I want. I bet if you live next door, that's what you would want to. Probably. Yep.

Probably. In fact, I've often thought, you know, heavily planted sites like this, for example. are great lots for, let's say, maybe this is a subject for maybe another place, but for the city to buy and turn into... Pocket parks. Into a park. It would be a wonderful thing, but the reality is this was bought by a person or by let's say a company, the company has rights which have gone through legislation and it's a little tricky for as much as I love trees for me to basically say, you know what, even though you have the right to do this, you shouldn't because trees would look nicer I do think trees will look nicer, but I also sympathize with them. I just wanted to give a perspective that I'm sure may not be popular or agreed upon, but I think that's the beauty of a board like this where we come from different professions and we can bring in different perspectives.

Well, I appreciate your perspective, but you are talking to a Miami-Dade County public school teacher, so the income of developers is not exactly an item that's in my purview.

Thank you, Mr. Price. We'll recognize Jordan first, so he didn't go through the first round of questions. Mr. Trockenberg.

Thank you all. I would like to just say, after reviewing the plans, I don't know if you had a chance to look at what's being proposed. There is at least some silver lining in that the developer is setting back the second floor substantially, facing the neighborhood properties. As you had mentioned that these large sugar cube style boxes that you were showing, especially on that second story, the benefit in what is happening here from, I know this is not an architecturally focused item, but just to converse about what the issues are that you had brought up, is that the setback on the second floor does allow for some breeze, some shade cover from trees, and whatever else might be necessary.

So it's not this?

It's not that. It's this? It's stepped in on one side, hopefully your side, several feet.

My side is the west side, sir.

West side, let's see here. for me to gauge which side is this based on these plans because it's not very specific um but um west side yes i think it is your side now that i'm putting the math together so there is some positive to that um i do want to say that uh we our hands are tied in a lot of ways when it comes to the building itself as staff had mentioned um but it seems like the pruning and things that are outside of my lane when it comes to vegetative control. I lean on Chris over there. But I would say that it could be a lot worse based on what I'm looking at. If that's any consolation.

I hope that.

Thank you, Jordan. Mr. Collick. Thank you. But let me caution, we should probably move things a little bit.

Yeah, I agree. I just, you have really good points. You know, I understand exactly where you're coming from. Just to make this brief, and I guess the developer is here. There's a portion of the property, the southwestern, you have the pool equipment low-key on the west of the property, and the house is very close to the property line. And I understand there's going to be underground uh pipes associated with the pool equipment going to the pool but it would seem to me to be that with all of that said there still could be room to locate some small uh narrow growing native trees in that open area on the southwest portion of the property to help screen the property line or at least some sort of a native hedge or something along the existing fence so I don't know if that's something that we could even discuss here because it's not part of the tree removal permit appeal. But I think just in terms of being a great neighbor, let's just leave it at this. I would say in a friendly manner, since we all happen to be here and thanks for joining, is that I do think that there's probably things that could be done as you get along the property to help soften the edges of the property and to just be as good a neighbor as possible. with small native trees. That would be fantastic. Yeah, so that would be my suggestion, and thanks again.

Thank you, Chris. I had a couple of questions then. I'll come to you, Hugh, but let me just get mine out of the way, as they may be germane to your line of questions. I noticed that the two travelers' palms, five and six, fall outside of the building footprint. Why are those being removed? Is it discretionary or is there some underlying reason for that removal?

You're saying five and six are travelers' palms?

Is that not? Yes. Per the tree disposition plan that I'm looking at, five and six are travelers' palms.

Five and six are unregulated trees per our city code.

Aren't black olives also?

I'm sorry?

No, okay. So they're being removed because they're irregular trees, because they're a prohibited species?

They're not prohibited species. These trees are just unregulated. They're not trees that we regulate.

I understand. But my question is not so much why they're not being mitigated. It's why they're being removed.

Right. So when it comes to that, we don't... force the applicant to keep them. If they want to keep them, that's fine. If they want to remove them as well, that's fine. It's just that it's not...

Okay. But fundamentally, they're being removed because the applicant wishes to remove them.

Correct.

I see.

And I assume that's the same for this paradise tree, which also falls outside the building footprint.

Correct.

Okay. Chris, out of curiosity, how easy is a traveler palm to move? Not so easy. Okay. Traveler Palm? Yeah, I don't know.

Can't happen with that tree. It's intertwined in the roots of the Poinciana.

Yeah.

I didn't realize you were all so experts in Traveler Palm systems.

I just learned something good. If you have a Traveler Palm, you can take it out, right?

You could also leave it if you wanted, if the developer wanted to. I think a lot of good things have been said here, and so... do your best to preserve as much vegetation as possible.

That was my next question to staff. From an appellate standpoint, obviously what we're considering here is not an application to be granted a special certificate, it's an appeal. Is this a binary decision? Either the appeal is granted in toto, or can it be partially granted? Can certain amendments be made to the city's recommendation, or sorry, the city's approval that would essentially modify how this was approached?

Yes.

Okay. All right. So, through the chair. Sorry. Let me continue, Bob. You'd be so kind as to wait. Chris, you had some ideas on perhaps some reframing of the mitigations in a way that would be more neighborly, I think is how you put it. I think maybe articulating that and going to the greatest extent of maybe finding an appropriate middle ground might be a good path here. Maybe start thinking through that.

Sure. I mean, if I can ask a question to see if I can frame this properly, I would think it would be something like, you know, try and preserve as much vegetation as possible. Like, this would be a friendly, you know, maybe we could add this to a motion, for example. If we said something like, you know... we would like to preserve as much vegetation as possible, and we would like to bolster the property line with either native small stature, narrow canopy, native trees, and or shrubs. And I could get a little bit more technical, but I think we would be doing something like that, saying we would make a motion to deny the appeal with the condition that And I would say something like that, that the developer do as much as possible to preserve as much vegetation as possible and or to is to provide additional small stature native canopy trees along the western property line. Say six Spanish stopper trees, 12 foot height, two inch caliper trunk, something that would definitely fit.

Just a question then, kind of as a corollary to Mr. Cawley. In this instance, it would be to grant the appeal and then modify the proposed mitigations if that were the intent, correct? Okay. So effectively, I think the way that this would be framed is the prescribed mitigations for the removal would be amended to whatever the will of the board is. So maybe, Chris, from your technical standpoint, think through how best to articulate that because that will be enshrined in this approval. Mr. Powers, you had another question.

It is a coconut palm that's being cut down, is it not? Okay, so one of the things, and the other thing is that, that is what I understood from Savan, is that we can ask him to do other trees and other things along either side, so this woman doesn't have to look at a white wall. I think that would be appropriate. So perhaps one of the two ends of this board can hazard.

Okay, why don't you two think through how you want to hazard that. Yes, Mr. Perez, go ahead.

I happen to agree with what you mentioned, where developers often say, well, let's plant a bunch of small trees and they'll grow quickly. Therefore, I think that a way to... Yeah. I mean, I guess in the line of everybody thinks developers have a lot of money, one of the ways to prove that we are willing to actually contribute, let's say, or developers willing to contribute, would be to proposed instead of smaller trees, maybe fewer but larger trees. Now, I understand it's complex to get a specimen tree there, but certainly trees that are more than two and four inches in diameter are out there, and somebody could actually get them. So that might be something that could help with the concern of simply smaller trees being planted and then having to wait five, ten years for them to actually grow into a proper canopy.

Thank you. Mr. Ryan.

And there's a whole list of trees, because I'm the native tree nut, after Mr. Colley, that grow in the shade. Coconut grove, like bitterbush, stoppers, crabwoods, things that grow because the building's going to be taller, so it's not going to get as much sunlight. But you need trees that will block and be used to partial or heavy shade. Redberry stopper is a good one. It's extremely rare, and it grows slow, but... You can get them big. Maybe they'll find them, yeah. But anyway, but they're ideas. And I guess the other thought was, yeah, you could do that on your property, but if this mitigation, it would be on the other property line, so it wouldn't eat up your yard.

Thank you. Mr. Cauley, do you have thoughts on how best to approach?

I think that the best thing, because this can get very complex, that's why there's so many... permutations of this. I think if we made a motion, something like that we deny the appeal, uphold the city's prescribed proposed mitigation, and make a suggestion that an additional six native trees be provided along the property lines in a manner that would be approved by staff. So the minimum size, native species, and then the applicant can say the bitter bush or the Spanish stopper or whatever. And the appellate here would have some additional screening down the side of the property line. The developer's team would have an option to say, oh, cool, we'll put six new of these narrow growing trees along the edge, and everybody wins.

I think that might be more cumbersome. Wouldn't it maybe be cleaner to uphold the appeal, but then provide, sorry, grant the appeal, but add to the city's mitigation exactly the vegetation list that you provided?

So it wouldn't be a suggestion?

It would be mandated rather than discretionary.

May I ask a question?

You may.

So I like the idea of the trees with a wider girth in terms of their required mitigation. I understand that there's a required mitigation at any rate because of the cutting down of the mango tree. If the girth is wider, the likelihood is the tree is going to live longer and grow faster. Along the fence, there's going to be a six-foot fence that they're putting up. So I would hope that there would be some hedge or stoppers would be great, or trees that could really block out my view of that house. I don't know what I would defer to you in terms of species or to you in terms of species.

He knows more than I do. It's a narrow area. Yes.

Very.

you do so much better job of this lewis than i do but the the the gist is why don't we add six additional 12 foot height two inch caliper spanish stopper trees along the western property line or or or similar or similar so it's not strictly yes if that's okay yeah that's okay um let me pause that and come to city staff for commentary

So I just want to clarify these two options that you're discussing. The former is preferable from a legal perspective in terms of impacting vested rights of the owner.

Could you clarify, by the former you mean denying the appeal with a suggestion versus granting the appeal? Correct. Instead of granting the appeal. Any suggestion is by definition not binding, correct? Correct. So this would be entirely a discretionary suggestion? Yes. So if the intent of the board is to mandate it, then the former would not work in this case?

Well, I haven't heard substantial and competent evidence that's been offered and discussed by the board in totality for it to grant the appeal. Remember, it has to be based on substantial and competent evidence. So not by strictly a motion, in other words? Noted.

But the evidence can be that the mitigation isn't sufficient.

Yes, I'm afraid we have to recognize you. You can't just...

I apologize.

That's quite all right. Sorry.

Okay. And also, just procedurally, have you allowed the property owner to present if they're here? I have not heard from the property owner. In... We have not. We can. Yes. At least afford the property owner that option if they want to present. They hear evidence on their side.

Noted. To the property owner, should you wish to present or provide any sort of rebuttal to what's been said today, you do have an opportunity to do so. Please state your name and address again for the record.

Yeah, my name is Raul Roque. So I'll tell you before, I am the owner of Summer Construction. The property question is 2444 Southwest. Let me show you the landscaping plan that we already have in place.

Just for confirmation, are these the same plans that are included in the city's staff report?

Yes. But this is the actual landscaping plan. So we are proposing in the back on the side of the property to do those pages, as you proposed, but in the west side, we have the avocado root in some of the areas, so it would be very hard to plant some native trees there, but we can locate that, you know, beside that root area, we can locate some of them in, you know, where we have the space. But yeah, and in this project, we do our best to give as much trees as possible. As you see in the plan, we are using the existing approach in the new construction and the existing location to try to not touch any of the trees on the right away, and not the tree on the left, any of the big specimens. So the removal in this project is almost exactly what we need, and we are planting always more than what we need to plant. So, you know, we are trying to comply with everything. So we are compliant with code, right? What the laws say and what the code says. Our project is compliant with everything at this point, and it's almost approved. So the only thing pending is, you know, what we have here today. So we say today, everything in the plan is approved. I want you to point out that. So, yeah, do you have any other questions for me?

I'll open that to the board, should the board have any questions from the property owner. Yes, Mr. Powers.

So, you know, we're required by law to retain the water that comes off your building on that property. So is the property, because the blueprints that you have there really don't show a real height thing. Are you building the house up off the ground? Or is it a slab on the ground?

No, it's just a flat on gray, but we are at the floor level, above floor level. So we are basically, the finished floor will be one foot above the ground of the road, as Paul called. Okay. So the height will be slightly higher.

Listen, I understand square footage and how much money you got to do and how you got to make this work for yourself. We've offered you some ways to be a little bit not so pending on your neighbors to either side. I'm just concerned about the water. Okay, because water is becoming a major issue here. And when you build these massive houses like what you're building next to houses that have lots of land around them, Okay, because it's like a sponge. And you're covering the sponge that you built your house on. You're covering almost two-thirds of that sponge with something that isn't going to pick up water. And then all that water that comes off your roof is going to go into your neighbor's yards and things of this nature. Those are concerns as far as mitigating some of this stuff. That I think about. I don't know about the rest of you, but I live in a historic district, so we don't have that. We have 15 feet between all of our houses. They've now taken the 15 feet and made it five. And that's like your pool and everything then in your back. Like, what is the impervious surface that's going to absorb the water that's going to come off of a 2,000 or 3,000 square foot roof? then I'm just, by hand, so.

We hire a civil engineer that do the calculation and propose an on-site drainage that can retain all the raining water, even for a 100-year storm, in a certain month, we get more rain. So, basically, in calculation, our design comply with all the retention of the raining water.

Okay, well, I'm just saying that that's a concern for me. Because I'm looking at the plans that are there, and there's not a whole lot.

Those plans, it's like, I just bring those very simple. You need to see the full plan and the kind of the elevation of the house, but we have the real plan we have for this calculation.

My only concern is that you use what you've got presently on the property. I certainly understand why you don't want the traveler's palms, the rats, and things get into them and all the rest of that stuff, and they're not easy to move. If you want to move them and they smell it, they're not cleaned out and all. No, they do. They're horrible plants. But nonetheless, and they're not a Florida native. They're in no way native. The coconut palm, my only thing is I would like the coconut palm moved. That's my thing. And I also agree with Mr. Cauley and the rest of them that you ought to do some type of an arrangement with So this woman doesn't have to look at the white walls on both sides. I would take care of both sides of that because what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Thank you.

I don't have any problem planting, let's say, six or two native plants in her property if you want to, using the property line, but in her site. Because we have only, we're going to do a fence. We only have five feet between the fence and the house. So if she wants to look nice, she's going to see a fence anyway. She wants to, you know, I don't care. You know, I can't plant like some trees in her side to make it beautiful. So I don't have a problem with that.

Okay. So Chris, then it sounds like that your initially conceived motion was the best. So maybe give that a go.

Yeah, I know we've been talking about this for a very, very long time. I just have one question for our attorney. Would it be okay for the developer to plant some additional native trees on the appellate side if they wanted?

Yes. Okay. And another thing, I want to do it, let's say, wherever she wants. I can do it, let's say, next week or following week. Yeah. Because I want to do it, and she can take care of those plants. You know, we are going to plant it, and then she take care of the plant. Because, you know, during construction site, I don't want to have plant on my site during the whole construction, so it would be very hard to keep it.

Perfect. And would that be cool with the environmental resources department, something like that? You just have to go check and make sure. So basically, we'd be denying the appeal. We'd be upholding the city's mitigation proposal. And we would be adding a condition that the developer plant six additional 12-foot height, 2-inch caliper or DBH trees on the appellate side of the property. Just say... Spanish stoppers, say three Spanish stoppers and three. What was the one that you said, Hugh? Do you like three crab would or three or just say six Spanish stoppers? It'll be easy and it'll be convenient and clean and nice.

Or red berry stop.

OK, listen, let's just make sure I don't want to get everybody off here. Three Simpson stoppers, three red stoppers. There you go. So it's six total.

Let's say, sorry, red stoppers are very hard to find. They're only native to the southern Keys, lower Keys. Thank you. So let's say Simpson stoppers, because the Gables plants those as tree trees downtown.

Thank you.

Three Simpson stoppers, three Spanish stoppers on the appellate side of the property. That would be the motion.

Thank you, Chris. That sounded like a motion. Do we have a second? With a friendly amendment.

I shall second that. Second.

Let the second happen, then we can discuss the motion. Sorry, so the motion has been seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion? I just want them to move the coconut palm. Are you amenable to moving the coconut palm? Come to the microphone. It would...

I'm just recalling from memory, right? So I believe that the coconut palm is not like a straight palm. It's like a shifted palm. So I know an arborist, so I believe that if we had to move a palm, it would be shifted. I don't know. When they have that curve, they're worth more. I can ask to the arborist, it can be done.

Okay, so as a landscape designer, that palm is worth far more money than a straight palm. Why don't you put it in the back corner and have it go out over the pool?

No, I know, I got dry. Like, you know, this is what I'm talking about.

Like, use what you already got. You're going to have to call in a landscape designer to do it anyway, and when they're planting the trees, they can move the palm.

Thank you. So, Mr. Bowers, then your proposed amendment to the motion is that the coconut palm be relocated.

Another issue with the relocation is that the palm now is kind of in the west of the construction, so I need to relocate it at the beginning of the construction, so it would be kind of hard to keep the palm alive during construction, you know?

It's kind of... What if your neighbor agreed to water it for you?

I'll just jump in here. It does get really complicated when you deal with the relocation, because in the city and the managing...

It's a great idea, but it'd be...

Gentlemen, let's go one at a time, please. Let's not let this turn into a kangaroo court. Yes, Mr. Perez.

Is the idea for the property to have a coconut palm there in the end, or is the idea to save this specific coconut palm on the property?

Mr. Powers, the question is for you, I believe.

Well, then that defeats the project thing of moving the tree and saving the tree. That's the idea, is to save the tree that's already there. I mean, that's just, now you just might as well just have the thing go in and knock down everything. That's not our job. Our job is to protect the trees on the property. That's our job. That's the job of this board. We're the environmental protection part arm of the city of Miami. That's our job, is to protect every tree on that property. I'm pissed off that they have to cut down the mango tree. I don't want that for a pool. that they'll never go into. So I'm just saying it. I think it's ridiculous. They bought a lot that was a forested lot to build a house that they have to remove trees for to build the house when there's plenty of lots in that area that don't have anything on them.

I'm just saying. Thank you, Mr. Bowers. The proposed amendment for the removal of the apartment, do you accept the proposal or no?

I just disagree. I think it's an encumbrance on the development.

And we'll take up the motion as originally presented. May we have a roll call, please?

Calling member Christopher Cawley.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Najeeb Campbell.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member, I'm sorry, calling member Julie Odell. Yes. Thank you. Calling member John Perez.

Yes.

Calling member Robert Powers.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Hugh Ryan.

Yes.

Calling member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Yes.

Thank you. And calling chair, acting chair, vice chair, Luis Prieto y Munoz.

Yes.

Okay. It passes by a vote of eight to

Thank you very much. The motion can be appealed. Can this be appealed since it is an appeal?

That's it, right?

Can a board's denial of an appeal be appealed? To the commission. Okay, well.

Thank you. Calling HEP item two, file ID 18147. I'm sorry, correction. Calling HEP item number two, file ID 18444. is a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to Section 17-31 of the City Code of Ordinances, approving or denying a special certificate of approval to permit the after-the-fact demolition of a coral rock wall, significant landscape feature, and the construction of a new coral rock wall along the South Miami Scenic Transportation Corridor located at approximately 2323 South Miami Avenue, Miami, Florida, 33129. Thank you. And this is file ID 18444.

Thank you. Is the applicant present?

You're the applicant? I believe. Did you bring? Yes.

Please give your name and state your address for the record.

Good afternoon. My name is Karen Campbell. I am the general contractor, and I'm here representing the owner. My address is 9500 Northeast 6th Avenue, Miami Shores, 33138.

Thank you so much.

Adrian Espinosa, historic preservation planner. Request to let the staff analysis be accepted into the record? Please do.

Great. Yes.

Just as a quick background as we slide through some of the photos here, in December 2021, a demolition permit came in for the house on the property. It was demolished, but highlighted in the demolition plans was basically every structure on the property except the coral rock wall, so it was demolished. the belief that that core rock wall was not going to be demolished. It was demolished. Uh, so now that they're, the property's split, um, They're coming here just to get an after-the-fact demolition. They've already put in their new construction plans, which were approved earlier this year in April, no, May, that they will be rebuilding the coral rock wall, which is something that we can approve at staff level. So this is just an after-the-fact for the demolition. So if we can see here, that's what the wall used to look like on the right. It has about four feet for a length, and then it rises up to about six, five, six feet. So they will be rebuilding. So staff recommends approval with conditions. The only condition being that the wall is constructed to the same dimensions using the same type of limestone cobbles and construction methods as the original. So again, and just for some context, this is a scenic transportation corridor, so what we're looking at is not the fact that it's maybe a historic rock wall, which it may or may not be, but it's more about the visual boundary created by that coral rock wall is what we're trying to rebuild.

Thank you. Mr. Espinoza, do you wish to add anything to the staff report?

Yes. Then please proceed. I want to begin by clarifying that the city's conditions of approval state that the Coral Rock wall was demolished by a previous owner, not by us, so this is important. When we applied for the master permit, we were informed that we could not proceed unless we agreed to rebuild the wall, even though we did not remove it. Our letter of intent reflects that we wrote that we did not necessarily concur with the characterization of the wall, but agreed to rebuild in order to move the project forward. We fully respect the South Miami Avenue scenic corridor and the intent to preserve. However, the wall is not an individually designated historical structure. It is identified only as protected landscape So the main challenge is feasibility the original coral rock wall material no longer exists the previous wall cannot meet modern wind load or other requirements And reconstructing it as before exactly like before would require building a structure of the city You know we may have an issue with the Florida building code, so we're not refusing to comply We're just simply asking the board to for guidance and a relief from a requirement that may not be feasible and We are therefore respectfully requesting either remove the requirement to rebuild the exact original wall or authorization to construct a modern code-compliant visual compatible that meets the scenic corridor intent.

Thank you. Is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this item? Please come forward.

Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. This is a point of clarification. I think someone should ask, is this coral rock or oolitic limestone?

It's oolitic limestone.

Okay. So oolitic limestone is very readily available. It's our bedrock. It is still available.

Thank you, Mr. Cruz. Is anyone else wishing to speak on this item? Seeing no one, we will close the public comment and move to the board for questions. Again, for clarity, this is hopefully a straightforward item. The matter is whether I think you've heard the applicant's requests. So perhaps that's where we can start our line of questioning. By all means, if you don't feel like you need to say something, let's just skip it to the next member so we can move this one along. Mr. Trockenberg, you're recognized.

What suggestion would you make to meet the aesthetic requirements while also meeting the building code?

So something that's compatible with the new construction. Right now it's vacant, but there is a new building coming up, a new home coming up. So something that's compatible with the actual building.

Right. What would that be? For instance, first thing that comes to mind is, you know, stereotypical wall construction with some sort of oolitic limestone fascia.

Some kind of stone, but I mean, they're saying that if it's limestone, I guess, and if it's readily available, I guess that could work. Just the coral rock, the way that it's been... identified, you know, for me, it was not a possibility, not feasible. Doing it exactly like it was years ago.

Just to clarify, I don't say coral rock.

Yeah, elliptic limestone, we'll make sure that that's what we're referring to, as he has in his report. I guess my question would be then, if we were to phrase this in a way that staff level would be able to agree to whatever detail that is acceptable for building construction while also maintaining the um the scenic corridors aesthetic uh would you feel comfortable being able to do such uh i guess we can discuss it but i i mean the ordinances do just state that it you know the wall the walls as they are the limestone walls

you know, being significant landscape features are under, you know, protection, so it doesn't say any wall, you know, it mentions the material used, so... I mean... We can discuss it.

Yeah, I guess I can understand where the builder's coming from in that, you know, they're going to submit drawings, and the drawings will have to be approved by the building department, and had they submitted just stacked leaded limestone, it would not... it would not pass, right? There'd be certain requirements to have the footings and X amount of spacing between the vertical supports to meet requirements.

Yeah, I mean, if it's a structural thing, I wouldn't really even be reviewing for that anyways. So if it is constructed with the same material and to the dimensions,

So if it's the board's will, we're happy to look at any dimensions and take any direction. So you just need to give us that direction, and then those details can be worked out at the staff level.

Yeah, so great. That was basically my question. Yeah, perfect. Because as far as I'm concerned, and to keep it simple, that's the way I would lean.

Thank you, Mr. Trachberg. Mr. Ryan, should you have a comment?

Yeah, I was going to say, I was here when this was – And I remember I was talking about the triangle, the line of sight, and that was the only thing. So I know it sounds like your people didn't do the demolition, but as they've said, you inherited the headache. And the reason why this was preserved is because it is a corridor, protected corridor. Right. So you have to build. I'm going to be strict on this. You have to build it back to look like it was. Where now, in the olden days, they just piled on rock on top of each other. That's fine. I mean, I could see doing something structurally sound and then having the outside line with this to look exactly how it looked. And if you want to, they do this all the time. In fact, there's a place, a whole relatively 10, 15-year-old development on Red Road, just behind Red Road, maybe 56, 55th Avenue. The whole thing is lined with this. So there are people that work with this limestone material, and they do this. So it exists, and my vote is it needs to go back exactly how it was, because that's what this board wanted, regardless of what's behind there. Thank you.

Mr. Ryan.

May I add one more thing? Because I do have a concern. The lateral wall, I don't know if you have pictures of it, there is a tree that's growing on the actual wall, and the wall is pretty much going to fall over. Can we redo that wall maybe with concrete?

Lateral meaning the sides?

Yes, the side wall between the neighbors. The tree is on the actual...

It's probably a ficus tree that's growing out of the rock. I mean, that's part of the character too.

Thank you. Also, to clarify, if you mean like a wall that's kind of going perpendicular to the South Miami Ave, that wouldn't be under the ordinance's purview.

Okay.

Because it's not along the scenic transportation corridor.

Okay.

Thank you. Julie?

I agree with what you had said, and I think we need to just build it back to the way it was.

Thank you. Mr. Campbell.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Chris Cawley, I missed you. Go ahead, Chris Cawley.

No, it's okay. I can go after Mr. Campbell. Well, all right. I don't want to mess up the order. So I stepped out for a second. You were saying the city won't let you build it back? No, that's not what was said. You just want to do a different type of wall.

If we could, right, not build it exactly like the city wants us to rebuild it.

But the city says they want to rebuild it to look like it was previously. Right. Okay. Well, I mean, I... I agree. I think it should be built to look like it was previously. Thank you. I'm sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Carlin. Mr. Campbell. I think this might be a matter of design and engineering. If the wall is rebuilt exactly the way it was, it won't pass code. That's what I've heard. So if we think about cutting the wall in sections, If you do a modern regular concrete block wall or reinforced concrete wall, would you then have to add a simple thin veneer of olytic limestone to then put on the face of that? And with the machining and the cutting of those veneers, would that even look like the historic wall? Probably not. Now, if you were to thicken the veneer, then it would lessen the thickness of a modern wall. So there's some design and engineering that is needed to maybe fulfill this. Is there a way to maybe do vertical supports of concrete and then fill in between with the oolitic limestone? Is that possible? Is there a way to reinforce maybe horizontally and then put the limestone, the Wulutik limestone and in between verticals? Because that's a conflict for me. To do a modern wall and then slap on some maybe one inch or three quarter inch tiles of Wulutik will not be the right thing. So is there an engineering slash design solution that can... replicate the wall, but yet give it the strength of the code that is needed. I think that's the crux of the situation. And it's that when that drawing is done, because I didn't even see any drawing of an attempt to draw the wall at a source site plan. When those drawings are produced, do they come back to us or do they go through a series of revisions by staff to get to the final aesthetic?

That is up to you.

Interesting.

Mr. Campbell, I... The example that I see in South Miami looks like a modern, like a new version of an old wall. It'll take 30 years to get weathered and gray and old, but it's newly cut limestone, but the craftsmen put it in so that it looks old. So it's not like clean, sharp cuts. It's like... It's like what you see now. It can be done is my point.

Without the visual of that in front of me, I trust what Mr. Ryan is saying that it can be done. I would like to say staff make sure that actually it has the quality. Maybe an example of that wall should be in staff's possession so they know exactly what that represents and what needs to be done. to fulfill this project.

Mr. Campbell, I'll also point out that in the conditions of staff, it is pretty explicit that it should be the same limestone cobble materials, so cobble being the size of those rocks, and that the construction method should also match the original. So I think it is pretty explicit that, at least from an aesthetic standpoint, it should deliver what was once there, obviously with an implication that whatever is built must be structurally sound. I think that underpins it. But moving on, is that it from you, Mr. Campbell? Paul?

Bob? I'm fine with what the staff does and let the wall be put back in the way that it needs to be done and however they need to do that. It just needs to be replicated the way that it appears in the photograph. And I used to build those walls, so all that rock is still available. Every time they build a pool, they pull that stuff out of the ground. And it's all over South Miami. And there's about 20 guys who will do that all day long and make you a beautiful wall. Thank you, Bob.

Mr. Perez.

I agree. If that's what it looked like, if it was protected and it was removed, I agree that it needs to be put back to match what was there.

It sounds like we are all in agreement, so perhaps somebody can hazard a motion and we can move this item along.

I'd like to make a motion. Go on, Bob. I'd like to make a motion to accept the proposal as proposed by the city to rebuild this wall the way the city wants to have it built and the scenic... Will it come back to this board or no? So we'll never see it again, is that correct? Well, not unless you drive by South Miami Avenue. I'm just saying. Thank you. There's a motion and a second. Thank you. Let's move.

I got you. I got you, Bob. Thank you. Motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? Let's have a roll call then, please. Thank you.

My apologies for clarity of the record. May I ask who seconded the motion?

That was me. Mr. Trachtenberg.

Thank you. Calling member Robert Bott-Powers. Yes. Thank you. Calling member John Trachtenberg.

I believe you mean Jordan Trachtenberg.

I'm sorry, Jordan Trachtenberg. I do apologize.

That's a yes.

Thank you. Calling member Najeeb Campbell.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Christopher Cauley.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Julie Odell. Yes. Thank you. Calling member John Perez.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Hugh Ryan.

Aye.

Thank you. And also calling chair Louis Prieto y Munoz. Yes. Okay. This passes by a vote of eight to zero. This is appealable to the hearing board's office within 15 days. Also for file ID. or file ID 18504 that is also appealable within 15 days to the hearing board's office.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

calling HEP item number three, file ID 18147, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to section 23-6.2, subsection B4 of the City Code of Ordinances, approving or denying a special certificate of appropriateness to permit an addition, renovations, and site improvements at a contributing property within the Riverview Historic District located approximately at 345 Southwest 10th Avenue, Miami, Florida, 33130, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings. This is file ID 18147.

Thank you. Is the applicant present?

Adam Fonz, architect, representing the owner.

Thank you. Address for the record, please.

2350 Coral Way, Suite 302, Miami, Florida, 33145. Thank you very much.

Mr. Espinoza, you may proceed with the staff report.

Great. I request that the staff analysis be accepted into record.

Request granted.

So the property at 3... 345 Southwest 10th Avenue is a filling station built in 1925 with an attached structure historically used as a store, likely an office for other services that were provided at the commercial building. So it's located in Riverview Historic District in the Lawrence Estates East Edition. The site is located on the corner of Southwest 4th Street and Southwest 10th Ave. To the right we see a historic photograph that we have on record. The sign is no longer there. As we continue on, the applicant's request for an addition, renovations, and site improvements to the contributing property is in accordance with the comprehensive plan, Chapter 23 of the City Code of Ordinances, and the Secretary of Interior Standards, and the Preservation Office Historic Design Guidelines. Let's continue on. This is the current state of the building. This is from the corner facing the northeast. And then that's the first photo on the left. And the photo on the right is facing, what's that, east through the carport. Let's continue on to some of the proposed design.

Of course.

So on the left here, we see the demolition plan. Much of that is being kept. A lot of the interior spaces on the north end are going to be connecting to the addition, which we can see on the right-hand side, that stays mostly to the rear of the property. They are going to be keeping the carport, so that would be considered a character-defining feature of the filling station. as well as filling in on the right-hand side where the filling station office connects to the wider building. So if we continue on, this is an artist representation. They'll be using that exact colored awning for some of the windows. Continue here. The landscape plan, pretty modest landscape plan, to mean that there isn't many trees being planted. If you look to the north, the setback reduces to about five feet from the neighboring property. They will be using cobbles. Let's see the exact material. Yeah, cobblestone for the driveway is one of the conditions of approval that I need to actually add. I will ask that a different material be used.

Is that the next slide?

So we recommend approval with conditions, the conditions being that the site shall be developed in accordance with the plans as prepared by design architecture consultants submitted as part of the PZ2519341 application. The fixed window on the east of the main entrance of the building shall include a transom window within the height of the proposed opening, similar to the historic transom window. All windows shall retain or incorporate sills. The front door shall include a transom window, all glass to be clear and or low E, opaque, translucent, tinted or colored glass is not permitted. The applicant shall also comply with all applicable requirements of Miami 21 code. And number seven, the applicant shall comply with the requirements of all department agencies as part of the City of Miami building permit submittal process.

Thank you very much. Adrian, you had a point about there being a difference in material for the job.

And we would like to add, as Condition 8 states, That the driveway material will be approved at staff level and must conform to historic district design guidelines. Yes.

Thank you. Sir, is there anything you wish to add to the staff report?

No, we met with staff. There's a few items there that we'd like consideration. I just saw the... The cobblestone, this site is a non-conforming site. It has a hardship already on the owner. We're doing a lot to bring the property up to current building code. We're raising it for flood. We're reinforcing everything as required. There was one item with the windows, Low E versus 10. We'd like to study that a little bit further because it has implications on energy, on HVAC systems and energy code and selection of units. Those are the cobblestone. And I just want to make sure the staff didn't recommend the wood windows that we are allowed to use aluminum. That was in a previous meeting. I'm not sure it's up there.

There's no condition requiring wood windows in the condition, so I think your aluminum windows have been snuck through. So, sorry, just for clarity, you wish to use tinted window material?

Is that one of the... Yeah, we want to be able to use it because just to meet the energy calcs and the code, it's a little bit difficult with the ACs.

Okay, and the other condition was on the materials for the drive.

I think the staff just added that. It was number eight.

They did, yes.

So, I'm not sure of the cobblestone requirements. As far as material, we're definitely open to it. I just can't commit to the owner because it wasn't on the...

I think the condition that they're proposing would be that you work that out with staff over the course of the process.

Yeah, we've been cordial, yeah. Very good.

Okay, so then is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public comments and move on to the board for questioning. Hugh, why don't you start first this time?

Yes, sir. Let me ask you, when? When are they expected to start?

Okay, so this property, we're ready to start. We actually need the special certificate of appropriateness to move on to the next building. So we can build in the primary review. We had a demolition order. We've been... working with unsafe structures to kind of get us here. Sooner than later, we're here now. So if you guys approve, we'll move.

As soon as possible. The demolition is for interior stuff for the most part?

Yeah, the demolition is basically on the way we propose the projects, only interior. And we're keeping and we'll add to the north.

I have an interest in this because I own the property directly diagonally across. How long have you been associated with this? About now, I'm going to think on second year maybe. Okay, all right. Well, it's been a rough 15 years with that place across the street.

Yeah, I know the property's been vacant. We got involved because it's a non-conforming site. It had an existing use of commercial. Commercial's no longer allowed by zoning. When we switch over to residential, there's a whole new – we had a 40-year – get past. It's just kind of been a little bit of going through the city process.

I'm really happy to see this. Once a meeting, I get something that's really, really cool. And this is great. And this is going to change if it happens. When it happens, it's going to change the block. Or at least one more step towards changing the block. Because it's tough to get rid of the two-legged rats. But the other thing is the use is going to be a Single family?

Yeah. Okay. Single family, two bedroom, two bath.

I didn't see. What is the idea on fencing there?

Right now, we have a perimeter fence, and then we'll have landscaping. Currently, it's all concrete. Right now, it's a temporary six-foot high chain link.

It's going to be changed, I guess.

Yeah, it'll look like a residential. Okay.

Wow, okay, well, I mean, best of luck to you. Thank you.

I like this, so fantastic.

Thank you.

As far as landscaping goes, I know the problem, there's no room.

There's nothing there. Yeah, it's currently all concrete. Yeah, I mean, and it's like a 50 by 50, right? It's a lot. It's a 3,000 square foot lot. Yeah, mine is too.

Right across the street, mine's the same thing, 50 by 50.

Thank you, Mr. Ryan. Mr. Cauley.

No, I have no.

Thank you, Mr. Cawley. Mr. Trachtenberg.

Thank you.

This is very nice. It's great to see an adaptive reuse of such a structure used for residential purposes.

Not that this is a very applicable statement, but I always like to reference Bernard Schumi, who's another architect, that sometimes in order to do architecture, you need to commit murder. It's just basically you just killed the old program, and you made a new one, and it's better than it was before. In regards to your low E comment, actually low E is more energy efficient, so I don't think you'll have any issue there.

Yeah, it's more of a cost thing. The owner's kind of going through this whole renovation, as you all might know, Probably more expensive to build than to demolish. Right, right. Originally, the intent was to demolish before I got involved.

demolition order they had a 40-year certification you couldn't redo the the use again so it became a little bit more did you guys already buy the glass no we haven't because you haven't purchased it yet no we haven't we haven't gotten a building permit because we've had to go through making sure because i mean i i don't know that there's that much of a difference at the scale of the project you're doing um but lowe is and clear is very nice for these historic structures otherwise it becomes very reflective and you end up losing the depth of the facade that

No, I mean, I'd prefer the low E, but when it gets to that kind of, I don't make that call. That's it for me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Trachtenberg.

Julie.

Great plans.

Thank you so much, Julie.

Good luck.

Mr. Campbell. I've actually physically been in this building before, so let's get it built.

Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Powers.

I agree. Great adaptive reuse. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Farris.

Mr. Perez.

Same thing. Great adaptive reuse. It's great to see that something was created out of something so small. It's wonderful.

Good luck. Thank you.

Thank you. I echo the plaudits from my fellow board members and ask if anyone has a motion. I'd like to make a motion.

I'll make a motion. Oh, no, you know what?

I'll give it to Hugh, please.

It's your neighbor. I move to hold on to Are you going to go full motion, huh? Yeah, it's been a while. To grant the special certificate of appropriateness for the structure located at 345 Southwest 10th Avenue with the seven attached plus yeah plus plus cobblestones seven attached conditions plus number eight would be cobblestones to be determined by city staff second very good we have a motion in a second any discussion on the motion

Seeing none, let's move to a roll call vote, if you please.

Thank you. Calling Member Hugh Ryan.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Najeeb Campbell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Christopher Cawley. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Julie O'Dell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member John Perez.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Robert Powers. Yes. Thank you. And also calling Chair Luis Prieto y Munoz. Yes. Okay. This is approved by a vote of 8-0 as amended. This is appealable within the hearing board office within 15 days.

Thank you very much. Thank you and best of luck. Thank you. Item 4, please.

item HEP 4, which is file ID 18443, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to section 23-6.2, subsection B4 of the City Code of Ordinances as amended, approving, or denying a special certificate of appropriateness for an addition, partial demolition, alterations, and site improvements to a contributing property located at approximately 464 Northeast 55th Terrace, Miami, Florida, 33137, within the Morningside Historic District. This is file ID 18443.

Thank you very much. Are the applicants present? Please give your names for the record.

Julian Quinn, Architect of Record, 222 Ponce de Leon Boulevard, Coral Gables, Florida, 33134. Thank you.

Gus Eleftherio, 464 Northeast 55th Terrace, Miami, Florida.

I'm Erin Eleftherio, 464 Northeast 55th Terrace.

Wonderful. Thank you. Adrian, all yours.

Great request to pass the, I always forget what the wording is, that the staff analysis be accepted into record. Yes. Okay, the subject property is located within the Morningside Historic District and the Upper East Side area. The site is located midway between Biscayne Boulevard, Northeast Fifth Avenue, and the south side of Northeast 55th Terrace. The applicant is proposing to permit, in addition, partial demolition alterations and site improvements to this contributing structure of the Morningside District. Here's our location. On the left, we have what the house currently looks like. And if you can see over on the left, something does not belong. It is a cheeky hut that was built in the rear of the property. Unpermitted. So truly a cheeky hut. And on the right was a historic photo. Let's see. The applicant's request to permit, in addition, partial demolition alterations and site improvements to the contributing structures in accordance with the comprehensive plan, Chapter 23 of the City of Miami Code of Ordinances, the Secretary of Interior Standards, and the Preservation Office Historic Design Guidelines and Miami 21 Code. that we see here. This is the demolition plan. There will be partial demolition towards the rear of the house. Of course, the unpermitted structure at the rear and parts of the original building that are not visible from the right of way. We can continue on. The addition will be built hyphenated from the original structure. In between the two structures, there will be a, what's the term there? Bear with me.

That's what happens when you make a bad pun, Adrian.

What are you talking about? So in between the two structures, we'll have a sort of outdoor area with a fountain in the middle. Most of the house will be... Let me look at these. So if we're looking at the height of the proposed... It will increase the height of the entire structure by 46 inches. However, the main facade is set behind about a 60-foot setback, so it would not be visible from the right-of-way. So we believe the height of the new addition is in keeping with the proposed, with the Morningside Historic District. So when we're looking at the, so here you can see that how the addition is partially visible to the left-hand side, except for a single window, which opens into a restroom. We request that maybe that one of the conditions, which we'll get to later, mentions that window, but I don't want to give it away yet. As you can see from this rendering, they are also proposing a wall and fence combination there, which we are requesting is removed. These are some of the materials. I'll get into that. So the use of wood for the front door and garage door, the stucco exterior, clay roof tile, and metal windows is consistent with the historic district and does not detract from the neighboring properties. The proposed exterior color is consistent as well with the Morningside Historic District, as well as the blended canyon dust color of the roof tiles. That would be consistent. So here we have the landscape plan. So in the Morningside District, although there are walls that enclose the front yard, it's not something that is approvable at staff level. It's not part of our guidelines. We would request, if we get to the conditions, that these be removed, as well as the hedge. But overall, we recommend approval with conditions. The first condition that the site shall be developed in accordance with the plans As prepared by Julian Quinn of Black Design Architecture, submitted as part of the application PZ2519840, the plans are deemed as being incorporated by reference herein. At time of permitting and or sub-permitting, manufacturers, brochures, or color photographs of proposed design elements and materials included, but not limited to windows, doors, railings, roofings, et cetera, shall be submitted for approval. Three, all glass is to be clear and or low E, tinted and or pink glass is not allowed. Four, the masonry wall and metal fence combination, driveway gate and enclosing hedge of Carissa Boxwood and White Bird of Paradise are incompatible with the Morningside Historic District. They shall be removed. 5. The applicant shall explore the possibility of utilizing a slightly larger window on the addition at the location of the proposed round window to determine an appropriate wall-to-window ratio final design to be approved by staff. 6. The resolution shall be included in the master permit set. 7. The applicant shall comply with all applicable requirements of the Miami 21 Code and Chapter 17, Chapter 23, of the City of Miami Code of Ordinances. Eight, the applicant shall comply with the requirements of all department agencies as part of the City of Miami building permit submittal process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Spinoza. Do you have anything you wish to add to the staff report?

Yes, we would like to request of the board to consider approving number four, like striking that, so that we could have our wall and gate at the front of the property. We feel it's a nice addition to the character of not only the architecture of the home itself but also the fabric of the neighborhood and it's also consistent with several other examples in Morningside as well as a few that are you know pretty much adjacent to the property and I have some images of that if I could share the screen.

Thank you but otherwise you have no objections to the other conditions presented by staff?

Correct.

Thank you very much. Is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this item? Choose your podium, Mr. Cruz.

There we go. Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street.

Thank you, Mr. Cruz. Please, two minutes, if you can.

We're trying to move things along. It should be less than that.

I'll hold you to that.

Wait a minute, the first one went an hour and a half.

Noted, and that's why we're on a bit of a crunch, so we appreciate the... And your time hasn't started yet.

Okay, but don't blame me. It's starting now. Yeah, no worries. So from the staff report itself, the Secretary of the Interior Standards recommend that additions not exceed 50% of the original building footprint. So from the submitted floor plan, building plan, it looks like what they want to add is 150% of the original footprint. This is an enormous amount of massing. So here's the elevation that will be seen by the neighbors on the west side. And the neighbors are sitting right there. You'll hear from them shortly. This is what they would be looking at. So this is the existing building down here. And they're going to add, here it is here, they're going to add this much. and an outbuilding. So this is enormous. This is not congruent with the houses on either side that are single-story, nor is it congruent in general with the Morningside Historic District. Then the other issue we have, as was mentioned, they want to put a wall and fence across the front of the house. The house dates back to 1930s. The neighborhood dates back to the 20s. They want to put this wall in front. You all have been to Morningside. The beauty of the neighborhood is it has so few houses with walls or fences across the front. And the few that are there, they precede the designation of the historic district. December 20th, 1984, I was in the room. So I would ask you to please support that staff recommendation to not allow the wall and the fence and maintain the integrity of the Morningside Historic District. Thank you. Oh, there it is. That's from the staff report. The historic guidelines do not allow it.

Was I less than two minutes? Did I do okay? That was remarkably rapid. Thank you very much, Mr. Cruz. Anybody else in the public wishing to speak? Please come forward.

My name is Marilyn Jarkese. I live at 444 Northeast 55 Terrace. I lived there since 1955, 70 years. And I just want to thank you. I'm happy about the tiki hut coming down, the illegal tiki hut. I'm happy about that. I'm happy about they want to add on to the back of the building. That's okay. They want to make it bigger. I understand that. But They also want to put something on the side of my house where my two bedrooms are, a pool with a cabana. There's not enough room to do that. What are they going to build it right on top of the, is there a setback on the side of the house on the West side? Cause there's not enough room to do that. That's what my big complaint is right near my bedrooms. And I've been there for 70 years. I don't, I don't need that. I'm sorry. I'm so nervous.

Oh, you're doing fine.

I like what they're doing, but do it right, you know? And that, Robert, what you said about floods, you're right about that. I didn't think about that. Look at Brookville Avenue, all that building, all concrete. There's a lot of floods there, and you know that. I've lived here a long time. I've seen a lot. I lived here for 70 years. And I love my neighborhood. Oh, and another thing. They should go back. I'm happy about that. But when you go on the side of the house, you're taken away from the side. All those houses, all those houses are 75 feet wide, 100 feet deep. I don't know where they got 84, but they're all uniform, those houses. You can't have one so big on the side. It's not going to look right. I don't know what else. Oh, is this house going to be sold? Rented? Are they going to live there? It's not going to be a B&B?

Let me see.

You have rules in Morningside. And I hope you just follow the rules. That's all I have to say. Thank you. That house is going to be so big it's going to look like a fortress. And that's too big for our neighborhood. The back is okay, but be careful on the side of the house. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I'm the big sister that has lived in the same house for many years.

Could you get a little closer to the microphone, if you would?

I'm the big sister. I've also lived in the house for many years. Not currently, though. My name is Arlene Groschew. I live in Fort Lauderdale. Basically, what my sister said I feel the same way. What I'm upset about, if you look at the view, and I don't know if you have those pictures.

Would you pull the microphone ever so close, just a hair closer. You can pull it towards you. You don't have to. There you go.

Okay, better?

Okay.

If you look at the pictures on the west side of the house, where they add, it's massive. It's like, it's, I mean, I think it is anyway. It's figure 90B. It's just too, too, too big. You know, build some of it, but maybe cut it down a little bit. Even your rules are no more than, what, 50%? Yeah. Tell you the truth, I'm very impressed with you guys. Really. Especially you. You hit a lot of things that I've been thinking about.

If I can interject for just one moment.

See, I grew up here. My father was a developer. Through the chair.

Yes, sorry. Would you wait one moment if you would?

Yes, go ahead, Mr. Collins. I think there's a misunderstanding here. or a mistake in our staff report. The Secretary of the Interior Standards does not have a 50% limitation on additions. Our draft guidelines within the city make that recommendation. Again, those guidelines are still in draft form. They have not been adopted. So I just want to clear that that's not specifically the Secretary of the Interior Standards.

Noted. As far as I know them to be. Thank you very much, Mr. Kalmas. You may proceed.

Well, all I think is it looks like a fortress when you look at that elevation all on the west side of their building. Too big. It needs to be scaled down a little bit.

Thank you very much.

Oh, and one other thing.

Yes.

The... Sorry.

The wall.

I think it looks pretty, but I don't know... Other things that they're going to add to it, right? Is it going to be a wall and there's going to be stuff on top of it?

If we can please make sure that we're speaking into the mic and all questions are directed through the chair. Thank you.

So I just think it could be scaled down quite a bit, especially on our side.

Thank you very much. Is there anyone else from the public wishing to speak? Seeing no one, we'll close the public hearing and we'll go back to Mr. Trachtenberg. Why don't you start us off, Jordan?

I will hold off. Thank you. Noted. Mr. Cauley.

How are you guys doing? Doing well. All right. Nice to see you. Just trying to check all this out. It looks to me, I guess I just have some questions. It's a beautiful house, right? And so you guys are renovating it. Okay, cool. And then it looks like it has a really large front right away. I mean, it's really pretty. It's just really pretty. I see a gorgeous renovation. Of course, I understand the comments from the adjacent neighbors. Does still look like there's a large buffer in the rear garden area, separating the properties. because I was paying attention to that to see if anything looked crazy. Regarding the front wall, let's see, that's an existing conditions picture that's up there on the screen. You know, is it okay if I ask a question? This is an interesting picture. The house on the right, that wall that's on the right there, Is that the right-of-way line? Close?

I don't believe so, but it is these ladies. It is their home that has the wall. I see. It's interesting that they're opposed to the wall.

So I'll make this brief so that people can ask questions, but regarding the front wall... I think I saw that it only runs on the front of the property. And then how does it return back down the sides? Like, wouldn't there be a fence going down the sides? Let me see here if I can find the site plan.

I believe we have the iron. Okay. It's a little more open there with landscaping. And I think I believe the intent is to create a good amount of privacy for both. the future occupants of the home and your home as well with a lot of landscaping on the sides.

I mean, it looks very tasteful and very beautiful to me. Those are my only questions for now. Thank you, guys.

Thank you, Mr. Colley. Mr. Ryan, you can defer and come back to it.

No, I'll just spit out what I'm thinking right now. You know, I like it. I like it. It's just really big. Really massive. And let me ask you the question of what is the green space requirement that's actually... Because a lot of that in the front is right-of-way, correct? Like, from the street to, like, the coconut palms and then some. But, like, I'm sure you're doing this calculating how much green space you need, and it seems... If anything, it's pretty close to the absolute minimum because it's the pool, pool house, and the big addition.

According to our calculations, the minimum is 25% and our proposed is 43%. 43%, okay. And that does not include, you know, obviously anything outside of the property line. Okay. In addition to that, there is a significant amount of green space in front. In the front.

You know, I got it. I'm looking at the only, I mean, you have the right to do additions, of course, and it's your property. I'm just looking at it from the west elevation. It just looks really big. You know, the one in front is dwarfed. And I know, you know, I'm not the architect up here, but I know a lot about the stuff from years and years of doing it. Isn't there some massing, some almost step-downs and porches or something that wouldn't make it look like such a block on the back? That would be something to consider. I'll let other people talk about it. You know, I just think it's wonderful, but it's just huge for the neighborhood. That's my thought initially.

Thank you, Mr. Ryan. Ms. O'Dell?

So the wall that's in the front, I'm looking at it. When Mr. Cruz presented, said that the Morningside bylaws or what have you doesn't allow for that, is that correct? Can someone from Morningside explain? What did you have, Elvis? What did you present?

So those are neighborhood guidelines, but I think as our preservation officer was saying, they are part of our draft. No, okay, so that was in regards to the 50%. No, those are part of the Morningside new construction guidelines. So no new walls.

It's not supposed to be done, no walls?

Yeah, we certainly wouldn't be able to approve it at staff level.

Is that codified somewhere? Is that in writing in the guidelines? It's in the guidelines. It just says no walls in plain language?

No. It's more complicated than that.

Okay.

So an enclosure is any fence, gate, wall, or hedge that fully or partially encloses the property or otherwise obstructs the view from the house from the street. Enclosures are allowed along the rear and side property lines up to eight feet in height. The height of all enclosures is measured from the ground up and includes decorative features. The intent of the enclosure guidelines are to allow the most important features of the home, their facades, to be seen and appreciated from the public right of way. Masonry. If the wall has intermittent piers, metal picket grills, it may be placed on top of the masonry walls between the piers. Any decorative scrollwork, metal pickets, or hedges placed above the masonry wall must conform to all height requirements. Front location of enclosure and specific height regulations for enclosures front of home and on property line. Generally, enclosures may not be located in front of the main facade. An enclosure that extends from the side of the home parallel to the street must be set back one foot from the facade and must not exceed six feet in height. If the enclosure extends 10 feet from the facade along the side of the home, it may be a maximum of eight feet in height.

Got it. So I don't know that that's going to work.