Historic and Environmental Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

Music Music you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you you you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Pledge of allegiance. Please remain standing to be sworn in by staff.

Raise your right hand if you intend to testify in this proceeding. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? Yes. Thank you. You may be seated. I'll go ahead and call attendance.

Give us a minute. We have two announcements to make first. Number one, please check your phone. Make sure it's on do not disturb or silent. And number two, we'll have a note from our city attorney regarding lobbying.

Good afternoon. Any person who is a lobbyist pursuant to chapter two, article six of the city code must register with the city clerk and comply with related city requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the historic and environmental preservation board. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering. Copy of the code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office or online. at www.municode.com.

Thank you. Now we can have a roll call.

Thank you. Calling Chair Dr. William Hopper.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Vice Chair Luis Prieto E. Munoz. Calling Mr. Najeeb Campbell.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Member Christopher Cauley.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Member Elvis Fuentes. Thank you. Calling Member Julie O'Dell. Here. Thank you. Calling Member John S. Perez.

Here.

Welcome to the board, sir. Calling Member Robert Bob Powers.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Mr. Hugh Ryan.

Here.

Thank you. And calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Here.

Thank you. We do have quorum. Also, Vice Chair Mr. Luis Prieto Munoz requested an absence waiver.

We have a motion to approve. So moved. Second.

Second.

Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries, and our alternate is empowered to vote. And I guess we'll move on to the approval of the minutes. Was anyone able to read the October minutes? I couldn't get them to download. Okay, so we'll start with September. Is there a motion to approve the minutes of September 2nd? So moved. Is there a second?

Second.

Motion to second. Any discussion?

All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? And so I would ask that we defer the reading of the approval of the October minutes until we can actually read them.

Okay, thank you. And also may we close the online public comment? There was no public comment. Yes.

Thank you.

Okay. And are we okay to start the agenda? Yes. Okay.

We'll start with, we have monthly updates.

Good evening. Two quick updates. One, I want to welcome our new board member, John Perez. Mr. Perez is a registered architect, principal at PRZ Development. He holds a Bachelor of Architecture from the University of Miami and has extensive experience in residential and hospitality design, having worked with Revue Letta Architecture and MB Development. I understand outside of his professional practice, Mr. Perez TRAVELS QUITE A BIT, ENJOYS ART AND STUDYING GLOBAL ARCHITECTURE. WELCOME TO MR. PREZ. I ALSO WANT TO JUST NOTE THAT THE CHAIR HAS REQUESTED THAT DISCUSSIONS ON THE BOARD MOVE THROUGH HIM AND THAT WE FOLLOW A PROCESS OF MOVING from his right down and then back up across to Ms. O'Dell and then back to Mr. Hopper when it is time for the board to discuss items with the applicants.

And if there are questions during the staff presentation or the presentation from the applicant, please direct them through the chair. And with that, I think we are ready for the regular agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda?

There are no changes to the agenda.

Okay, good. So staff will announce each item and the applicant will come forward. Please give your name and address for the record. Then we will have the staff report after the staff report is complete. The applicant may add any or respond as they feel necessary. when they've had a chance to finish, and I would ask that they limit any presentation to 10 minutes or less. Then we will open it up to the public for comments. I would ask members of the public who are speaking to limit your comments to two minutes or less. When everyone has had a chance to speak, we'll close the public hearing and open it up to the board for questions or comments beginning to my right and ending coming down this way. And when everyone's had a chance, we'll have another round if there are additional questions. And then after everyone has had a chance to speak and answered all the questions, we will close the discussion with a motion to approve or not. We'll have a vote, and then that'll be it. We'll move on to the next one. So we'll start now.

That's item number one. Calling HEP 1, file ID 173.

Melody, one second. There's one monthly update I also did want to address. We will be having Preservation 101 workshops starting this month. There'll be three of them. The first one will be November 12th at the Little Haiti Center. There'll be one the 13th here at City Hall. and there'll be one on November 17th at Jose Marti Park. All three will start at 6.30 p.m. November, November.

Thank you.

Now item number one. Calling HEP 1, file ID 17321, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board. HEPB pursuant to section 23-6.2 subsection B4 of the City Code of Ordinance approving or denying a special certificate of appropriateness, SCOA, for property within the Morningside Historic District to permit new construction and site improvements on a vacant lot located approximately at 5810 North Bayshore Drive, Miami, Florida 33137 further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report, entitled Exhibit A, with the following findings.

Is the applicant present?

Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Please give your name and address for the record first. Oh, Isaura Llanos. And the address, yeah, I'm going to come because the architect want more times. They resigned and everything, and they told me they want it for February, for the... Meeting for February.

February?

2026.

Okay, and your address?

It's 5810 Bayshore Drive.

Okay, thank you. So there's a motion to defer until February of 2026. So moved.

Is there a second?

Second. Any discussion on the motion? Are you going to... Are you going to, let me finish my question. Are you going to comment on whether or not it should be continued until February? Okay. Any members of the public come forward, give your name and address for the record, and limit your comments to two minutes or less. The motion is tabled for the moment.

Good afternoon. My name is Andrea Dreyfus. I live at 679 Northeast 58th Street, directly next to This property, this is the fourth meeting, my third time attending. I had to leave work. I had to pick my children up from school early to be here. We have had zero communication from the owners of this property. It was said at the last meeting that they bothered to attend, that they were supposed to communicate with us. They chose not to. The only reason I even remembered this meeting existed was because I had it on my calendar. I emailed Ms. Chang and she confirmed that nothing had been submitted. So I'm just curious how long this is gonna continue going on for. I feel like they're really making a mockery of this whole system. It's wasting your time, it's wasting our time. It's really not fair. They simply could have communicated with us and they're choosing not to. I really don't understand. why this is happening. I have one neighbor here. The other neighbors were not even notified about this meeting, so they couldn't attend. We're really in the dark. This has been going on for quite a few months.

Let me ask you a question. Did you get a postcard in the mail? No. Okay.

I didn't receive anything. And neither did my neighbors directly across the street from me. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir.

Ellis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. I am in favor of the deferral because the plans that are on file on today's agenda are the same plans that have been all along that were found to be very inconsistent with the historic district. So I'm hoping that when they do come back, First of all, that they meet with the neighbors prior to coming back so they can get feedback on how to make a new construction that would be compatible and more in keeping with the Morningside Historic District. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Good afternoon. I'm Rob Pollack. I live at 5724 North Bayshore Drive. I live with my wife. We own the house directly across the street to the south of this property. We live there with our son. I attended the last meeting, and I think in broad terms, they were asked to make modifications and to reach out to their neighbours. I look at the drawings. I think they're the same as last time. I think they're dated 2023. And I ask myself, what changes have been made? No one has contacted me to introduce themselves, let alone explain what the drawings are all about. I think they're ultimately going to get approved and I'm going to be their neighbor. I think they're very fortunate because very few people get to build, house their dreams from the ground up. And I think they're going to have a great project, but I think they need to reach out to me and let's make this spectacular for all parties. In the previous meeting, your architect referred to some homes in the Morningside that he said set the precedent. And I think instead of looking for precedents, they should look for inspirations. They can look at Holtzman's house, James Brennan's house. You can drive across 112 to Miami Beach and look at a parking garage. It's beautiful. And I think the houses, the neighbourhood they take inspiration from, aren't necessarily MIMO, MIMO or Art Deco. They can be Gulf Coast, but they're gorgeous, well-flouted properties that make Morningside more desirable. My wife and I went through a process similar to this 13 years ago. With our project, we had to keep in touch with the neighbours. We chose to, and the city. We chose on fences, gardens, and walls. My main concerns, oh, by the way, we had to adjust our process according to what the city said as well. My main concerns, what's going to happen to the large trees in the middle of the property? I looked at it again today. I think there's five magnificent royal palms. They're huge. The second thing more important is the setback from 58th Street, northeast 58th Street, and the design of the Northeast 58th Street frontage. I look out my kitchen window and my dining room window, I'm gonna see their south elevation. According to the south elevation, we will say utilitarian wall with some windows and garage doors. And it's a 10-foot setback. To my eye, this is ominous and stark and unfriendly. It lacks curb appeal, especially for a high-profile corner lot. I looked at the aerial renderings of the front, it's up front looking down, and it strikes me that the south wing is an add-on of servants' quarters. Is the south side of this house meant to serve as a service entrance? That's what the appearance is. In my eye, it's an unfriendly frontage that'll be right on top of the sidewalk and the street. In closing, I'll just say, You have the chance to improve Morningside's character. You liked it enough to move here and to build in a spot here. And your home value can improve from this as well. I think this is a chance to hit it out of the park, speak to the corner, make it beautiful from the street. But consult with your neighbours, please. Again, I don't know why this gets deferred. These drawings are 2023. Here I am again, making the same pitch. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Melissa Sandy, Easy Permits, 2221 Northwest 6th Street. I represent Andrea Dreyfus because I run her plans. I actually am the GC of her project as well. I was here last month representing for Mark Supino, who's also doing a house in Morningside. I come here a lot for Morningside. These owners, again, like Andrea said, they're wasting everyone's time. They just keep asking for department. The original meeting was April. They did not show up. The architect had no power of attorney. It was moved to May. May, he shows up. He got blasted by everybody. The association denied him in a letter, which the only reason Morningside Association of Architects received the plans was because Andrea and Laurent Dreyfus submitted them for review. The guy didn't have... He didn't care what anybody thought in the neighborhood. So then that was told to them, they had to talk to us. There's issues with private easements between the two properties. Everything, they didn't do nothing. They reached out in one email, said hi, hello, I'm this person, I'll reach out to you. After that, nothing again. They have not sent any new designs, new ideas, haven't spoken to anybody, Andrea, Laurent, or myself, because they also have my contact information. On October 6th, we asked Christina, have they submitted anything new? Nothing. We've asked, when they submit something new, if they do, was this going to go to zoning, public works, environmental, all over again, because the new design requires it? they actually submitted a master permit that is mostly approved. So if they do a new design, they're gonna have to redo the master permit. So what we want is for this to just get denied and then start the process all over again if they do change the design. Because they will have to start a new master permit anyways because it's a whole brand new design. Everyone has to review it in the process for SEOA, those other departments, not just Christina. Everyone has to review it for it to get to the point of the board. So it's not fair that they get a new design and then in the same process, like February, they're not going to make it to February. I know Christina's timeline. I know how long it takes when you first start an SEOA. February, it should not be approved. It should go in detail, should be checked. The letter from the association should be submitted saying, okay, you know, we're good with this new design. They just need to start all over again, and then also communicate with everyone. Because I do this process many times, I've come to the board many times, and this is not the way I've ever seen this function. Like, nobody agrees with this project, as it is right now. I don't know if they have a new design. So if they're asking for February, and if you guys do decide to keep this process number of SEO, this same PZ, then if it gets deferred to February, new notifications have to be sent out to the owners, which I was told did not have to happen. And I believe if this goes all the way to next year, they have to send notifications. No one knows about this. The only reason is because Andrew has to reach out to the neighbors and tell them people who came to the original meeting and denied it. I thought Ellis was not going to come today. I'm glad he came today because he's one of the staples of Morningside who always talks about these projects. and this is what we ask. If you are gonna defer, notifications have to be sent out and it's the last deferment because this is the fourth time we're here and it is a waste of time for everybody. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? I'll close the public hearing and open up to the board to restate or revise the motion. Oh, let me ask the applicant representative something. So you heard from the neighbors their comments?

Well, the last thing the architect said to me to request to a ferry, they told me they almost done with everything. I have to wait for them to provide the plans again. And I'm gonna lay everybody to the architect, whatever the neighborhood say.

But it's very important that they contact the neighborhood association and work with them before the plans are submitted to the city. Okay. Okay?

Okay. Is there a discussion amongst the board before? Yeah, should you go through the path here?

Yes, you can start. This is a discussion on the motion to defer.

I'll pass. I don't have enough context for this project.

My question is to the city and the board, is there ever a number of deferrals? I mean, could this just go on forever? Or is it five and it's gone?

So the board can only defer once or to the next meeting based on code, and that is if it is your deferral without the applicant agreeing to it. So in this case, the applicant can request as many deferrals as they would like, and it's up to you whether or not you wish to grant them. Deferrals that are date certain, so they are deferred to a date that is specific, do not require any additional notification. You can do a date certain with either notification or courtesy notification. I believe our courtesy notification is now actually electronic. or you could defer this indefinitely, which means that it would come back at a date once the drawings had gone through the process. It would allow for as much time as was needed for them to submit the drawings, for them to be reviewed by staff, and then to come back to you, and if an indefinite deferral would require re-noticing.

I mean, my thought is that I mean, the question I guess to you is when you say that they're almost ready, but now you want three more months. Almost ready would mean December.

How about that?

But, you know, three more months is one quarter of a year. And so, I mean, it seems disingenuous or disorganized or something. If this started in April, the plans are from 2023. And then now it's on us to really notify the neighborhood, and this is a big item for the entire neighborhood, for the district. And they didn't have notice today, but somehow they got wind of it as a tight neighborhood, which should say a lot about what they care about what their houses in the neighborhood look like, because it is a historic district. say this all the time a lot of people come in here want to build their dream house which is nice but there are rules like people say i want to think outside the box no there's a box there's a box and that's the morning side of historic district even if it's on a vacant lot and it's a non-contributing structure you still have to go through the review so without talking to the neighbors you're not going through the most important review So that's, I mean, I'm with them right now, but we'll see what everyone else says.

Mr. Campbell.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I remember the last or the very first presentation, and the staff had a list of recommendations for the project. the recommendations that staff listed didn't seem as stringent to completely change the entire design. There seemed to be some compromise possible, which was why it was deferred the first time. So I'm not sure what's developed between that time and now, but it didn't seem like a deal breaker at the time. So if they are still working on it, and they're just behind schedule for some reason, then why not wait to see what they're doing? Because if someone has purchased a lot, spent and invested in architectural services, They've already gone, maybe not the full mile, but more than half mile. So to not approve or defer to have them start all over again without seeing what they can do, and there's still time to meet with the neighbors and make sure it's good, I think we should give them a chance. But I didn't see a deal-breaking issue with the very first presentation with the design. Mr. Coley?

Yes, thanks very much. Are you Ms. Minsky? No, okay. I have a question for staff, I guess, and for our attorney. So the difference between a deferral and starting the process again is what? I mean, in other words, commonsensically, they're working on revisions to the drawings and they're asking for additional time. Probably they're trying to come up with a really good design that addresses the comments and I'm just curious, what would be the technical difference? They would just have to reapply? Because the notices are going to get sent out again, it sounds like, either way.

So if you guys were to deny it, then they would need to resubmit through a new PZ number. It would have a new application process number. Sometimes there are, once you deny something, it also has appeal rights, so they could appeal that denial to the city commission. That's one of the differences between the deferral and the denial. The other difference is if they have a denial, they'll have to start with a new PZ number repay all their fees as well that are associated with a certificate of appropriateness. And then sometimes, but not for this board, there are time differences that you have to wait. So you can't resubmit within a certain timeframe, but that doesn't apply to this board. I'm not aware of a time limit between applications unless you make one. So those are typically the differences between the deferral and a denial.

Right. Thank you. So I guess it almost sounds more onerous to deny for the staff and the city and everybody else than it is to defer and give the applicant. I mean, I'm just trying to understand this than it is to give potentially the architects and the owners time to speak with the neighbors. And that was my question. Thank you.

Mr. Chair.

Ms. O'Dell. Gag order. That's good.

Melanie, let the record show that Mr. Fuentes has arrived.

Right. He won't be able to vote in this proceeding on this matter. But just to announce the arrival of Mr. Elvis Fuentes.

Thank you.

Ms. O'Dell.

Thank you, Mr. Hopper, Dr. Hopper, sorry. I'm in favor of listening to the permit runner, because that's the biggest challenge in a lot of this. And what she spoke about is exactly what you have to go through, having a historic home, and having to go through this process, it's not easy. And if in fact the plans are going to be completely different, which it sounds like they would need to be in a lot of ways because we definitely didn't like this plan. And I agree with Mr. Hugh because I believe that they don't have their act together somehow. There's some kind of miscommunication that's happening. The neighborhood doesn't know what's going on. You don't know what's going on. Everything's sort of up in the air. So I'm on the fence about the deferral because... I don't know if it should be indefinite. I don't think we want to go ahead and deny it so that they can go back to the commission. The commission could go ahead and give them whatever they want. They could rubber stamp anything. And as it stands, the current plans, as Mr. Cruz said, they haven't been changed ever on what we've looked at from the beginning. So it's almost, I don't remember who said it, but in a way a slap in the face to us as a board. So I'm up to talk about that with everyone because I think we need to be smart about what we decide to do here.

That's it. Mr. Bowers.

Yes, I kind of dittoed that. But one of the things I wanted to know is that the present drawings are approved with conditions. And the conditions just came up because it took that long for them to come up. What are the conditions? Because they're not in here. They're not. Just tell me what the conditions are. Go ahead, Christine.

I do have a slide from the original staff report where we went over the conditions.

Yeah, but she didn't read them. So that's why I wanted to know. Because people have brought up, all right, so it's not a reflection on you. It took five minutes for it to come onto this computer. At any rate, so first off, it's about notice. So why weren't the neighbors noticed about this meeting?

So the deferral was date certain. When you make a deferral to a date certain, so it has a specific date of date, a meeting that it's coming back to you, noticing is not required.

And why is that?

That's the way that city code is written and it's not required for City Commission, PSAB or any of our boards and commissions.

Well because the city doesn't pay for that, the applicant actually pays for the mailing, correct? So all I'm saying to you is that to make these people responsible for remembering that three months from now something's gonna come back up. I don't think that's fair, number one, to the community. It's abundantly clear that the owner doesn't give a crap about how the program's running because they haven't bothered to be proactive in what they've asked to be proactive in. Is that not correct? They've been asked to be proactive, yes?

I think that if you're the board and you're deferring something to date certain, and you want that to have notification, you can make that as part of your motion. Okay, so that's good to know, so now- Right, so you can say staff will provide courtesy notice, staff will provide all noticing, staff will only notice, only send out the mailer, because we notice in multiple ways, right?

Okay, all right, great, because the applicant pays for that. It isn't like the city pays for that. That's something that's part of the permitting process.

The applicant does pay, and the applicant did pay for noticing, re-noticing, so, you know, it can be re-noticed.

All right, so all I'm saying that to you, well, through the chair, to you, is, like, I just think that that's something that we should start doing on a more regular basis because these poor people... You know, it's not easy to get, this is not centrally located to come here for any of us. Most of this board, it's not centrally located to come to this meeting. So when you ask people to come and give up their time, and by the way, A senator measures that when somebody shows up in his office, that represents 30,000 voters. Just letting you know. So when people come here in person, that means something. So I'm just putting you on notice as the owner's representative that you have five people that came from your neighborhood and they live all around that property. And I don't think it's fair to them. And I don't think it's fair to the owners or to you by that way, because you're not looking in such great light right now. You know what I'm saying? I don't know you, but I'm just saying like, it's kind of a, Not a great feeling for you to have. So I just think that we need to address that. And I think that if this board needs to, we should make that a standard operating procedure from now on through the chair that people automatically get noticed if something has to wait three months to be reheard. That's all. I think that would be smart to do that. And I don't like the project at all. So I would never vote for this project at all because I don't think it really fits into the character of Morningside.

to tell you the truth.

And I think that you do have some neighbors that are concerned and really want your project to be a successful project. So I think that you should probably reach out to them. And that's all I've got to say. Thank you. Mr. Trachtenberg.

Well, I think a lot of people have said a lot of things. So I'm just going to reiterate the stance of the neighborhood involvement. Your client, right? It's just your client. Your client Should not be coming back before this board. It seems like without some sort of support from the neighborhood. So I would say there's two elements that we should be sure to be part of our motion, which is one that if we indeed agree to push it to the February, if this is possible, I can see maybe it's not. If we are pushing it to February, then we should be one getting a letter of some kind at that time from the neighborhood, whether it's in support or denial for us to look at this. And then also then be notified properly prior to that meeting as a neighborhood, so I need to remind the board based on Florida statute.

they are not required to meet with the neighbors or neighborhood association. Just bear that in mind. You can ask for it to happen, but they are not required to do it.

Okay. I would say that as part of our process to voting, it's highly recommended that they come with a letter in some fashion from the neighborhood. But is it possible to also require them to submit or pay for a re-notification at that time?

So when you do your deferral, if you do an indefinite deferral, that will require all noticing. So we notice in the newspaper, and we send out postcard notifications to everybody 500 feet radius, 10 days in advance of the meeting. So that will automatically happen if you do an indefinite deferral. If you defer it to a date certain and you would like additional notice, I would request that you say what that additional notice is. What I would recommend is that you do an administrative notice, which is a mail notice, but it doesn't have to meet a time requirement. We will most likely do that still 10 days because That's our natural flow. But I would recommend that you just do an administrative notice and then we'll send out the mailer to everybody and that will not require us to re-notice in the newspaper either. And frankly, that is the most expensive piece for the city and the applicant in terms of noticing.

Thank you. As I'm releasing my ability to speak, I will say that you made the motion, right, Bob? So if it's not anybody else that would like to speak on that.

Yes, I would actually. That's right, you haven't spoken yet. That's right.

Excuse me. That's right.

So was this item deferred to a date certain? today is the certain date are we required to take an action on this besides deferral no so we can defer again or indefinitely that's correct yes sir okay that's good mr ryan i believe you said you had something else oh okay go ahead um these are just some some thoughts i'm an architect so i have a good idea of what the process is in terms of redesigns i just have a few questions if

could answer at some point. It's mentioned that the plans are being changed. I don't have enough context to understand exactly what's been requested, but are changes actually being made to address the comments that may have been received? That's number one. My other question would be, why so much time Is there a specific reason that you could share that so much time is needed to make these revisions? And then I guess the last one would be, I understand, I assume these owners maybe don't live here, I'm speculating here, but I guess my question would be why is the owner or the owners or the architect not here? I appreciate that you're here. I don't mean to demean your presence, but why is the owner or the architect not here to request this extension? I think that would demonstrate consideration to the board, but most importantly to the neighbors and the neighborhood within which this project is being planned to be built.

Well, I asked their people. They never provide to me the plans for this meeting. And when I asked, okay, you want more time? Why you need more time? They told me they resign, they almost done with everything, but they request not for January, they want it February. And I said, okay. I asked with Cristina, is it possible to do that? Because we have to submit the plans in December for the peer reviewer and everything for the February meeting. That is the only thing they told me. And I didn't spoke with the owner, only with the architect. I think the owner is out of the country.

Mr. Ryan?

Okay, this new process is driving me nuts because I gotta write things down. So anyway, and also I'm gonna be going over things just to clarify. Now, for the city, the deferral versus denial, what Mrs. O'Dell said, Mr. Odell said was what I would have said, which is we lose purview over this if it goes to denial. So I think in deferral, it's actually better that it stays here. Now, with the date certain, now, my question is about indefinite. What does that mean?

So an indefinite deferral means that we will reset the application in six months. However, it can be brought before that. It will automatically reappear on your agenda in six months with a full notification, meaning in the paper and mail notices will go out. However, if the applicant is ready or staff is ready to bring it back before that six months, we can put it on the agenda and it will have full notice as well.

Okay. And maybe I heard wrong, but I thought you also said a date certain. the city doesn't have to do the notice, but they can if we direct them to?

Yes, we will do that.

Okay, that's what I'm leaning towards.

Anybody else down that way? Anybody else down that way?

I just really want to make sure that we send out another notice. I mean, I just think from now on, whenever we do something and it gets deferred or gets pushed off to another date, that everybody gets re-noticed.

That we would be sure to include that.

Because I'm just saying that, but I think that we should almost make it a change on like what we do as a board, and we should vote on that separately at a later date, like at the end of the meeting, to like make that change so that we don't even have to think about it.

So it just automatically happens from here on out. Or at least the minimum, because honestly, how many people here have a subscription to the Miami Herald? Yeah, I mean, mailers, I think, will do the job in getting out to people.

But they haven't thus far is the only reason why I brought this up, because they didn't reach out. And that, of all the historic districts in the city, that one is a very active historic district, the Morningside Historic District. So to have six people here from the Morningside Historic District who said they didn't get noticed, and the only reason that they came here was just a fluke, that means something. So that's the only reason, through the chair to Hugh, that I think that we should actually make this a... make this something that just happens. Number one, the city doesn't pay for it. The applicant pays for it. And if they're going to be as flippant as these people have been, they should pay to have things renoticed, to be very honest with you. Maybe they'll think about that, getting hit with a $5 or $1,000 bill for notice to all of their neighbors. I'm just saying. There should be a cost to coming here and wasting people's times. That's all I just think.

So do you want to keep the motion that you had or do you want to restate it, amend it?

Would amend it. I would amend that motion. To say what? I would amend that motion to say that, well, do we want to have an indefinite deferral or do we want to do an indefinite? I would say that we make it an indefinite deferral and that when it does come back, that notice is sent out. That's how I would...

So I believe indefinite would be six months would be May.

Yes, sir.

Or before. Yeah, as a follow-up to that, an administrative.

So if it's an indefinite deferral, we will do all of our legal noticing requirements. All right. If you would like to do it date certain and have us just do the mailer, then we ask that you do either, you say it's either do an additional mailer or do an administrative notice, which will cause us to send out the mailer only.

Who was seconded? Okay. And you agree with that amendment?

Yes, sir. I would also like to add in that there is a recommendation from the board that a letter is included with the submission. Absolutely.

From Morningside, from the Neighborhood Association. They have to meet with Morningside Neighborhood Association. That's part of the conditions for this deferral.

We highly recommend it. We can make it a recommendation. We highly recommend it.

We can make it a recommendation.

He did. All right, I second that.

Okay. Can we have a roll call on that, please?

Just a moment. For clarity of record, we're doing the indefinite deferral?

Yes. Okay.

And this was motioned by Bob Powers?

Yes.

And seconded by Mr. Ryan?

Trachtenberg.

Trachtenberg, I'm sorry. Okay, go ahead and do roll call. Calling Member Robert Powers. Thank you. Calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg. Yes. Thank you. Calling Mr. Najeeb Campbell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Mr. Christopher Colley. Yes. Thank you. Calling Mrs. Julie O'Dell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member John Perez.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Hugh Ryan.

Yes.

Thank you. This passes by a vote of eight to zero.

Wait a minute, I get to vote too.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And also calling chair, Dr. Hopper. Yes. Thank you. This passes by a vote of eight to zero.

Thank you.

For indefinite deferral, and that would be, the date would be May 12th, 2026. Or before.

Would that not be May 5th? Please clarify.

No, our date for, I'm sorry, I do apologize, it is May 5th, 2026. Calling HEP 2, and that is file ID. Thank you. That is file ID 18307, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board granting or denying the appeal filed by Lawson Investments Incorporated of intended decision BD 23-003-871-001 issued on September 2nd, 2025 for the property located at approximately 224 Northwest 75th Street, Miami, Florida.

Is the appellant present? Please give your name and address for the record.

I think we'll start with the staff report.

And they're coming up. We're going to have the staff report first, and then it'll be your turn.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board, My name is Craig Henry, Environmental Resource Specialist II for the City of Miami and Landscape Plan Reviewer. And the staff report is, the analysis is that the Environmental Resource Department Division has received an after-the-fact tree permit application for the removal of one mango tree measuring 20 inches in DBH from the subject property. The DBH was determined during an on-site inspection conducted by city staff based on a measurement of the tree's remaining stump. This application has been submitted in partial compliance with an open violation for the removal of a tree without a required permit. Consequently, the property is subject to the replacement requirements outlined in chapter 17 of the environmental preservation ordinance. In accordance with Section 17-10-2-1, the required replacement for the after-effect removal of a 20-inch DBH tree from a non-homestead property is 16 trees at a minimum of 2-inch DBH by 12 feet in height, or 8 trees at a minimum of 4-inches DBH and 16 feet in height. The replacement trees must be planted either on-site or off-site. It is determined that an applicant is not It is determined that the applicant is not able to comply with the planting of replacement trees either on-site or off-site as required. Then the applicant shall make a financial contribution to the City's Tree Trust Fund of $1,000 per required 2-inch DBA tree that cannot be planted on-site or off-site. The staff recommendation is that the preservation office recommends that the appeal of the after the fact tree removal permit be denied in accordance with the requirements set forth in chapter 17 of the city code. And we have provided the arborist report findings and the site inspection findings as exhibit aid. Okay, thank you.

Your turn. Okay. Bring the microphone a little bit closer.

It was a tree that was dying. It was a dying tree that almost half of the tree fell after a wind. And... Because of safety reasons, I went and cut the rest, cut the rest and get rid of it. But I don't see, it's a mango tree, and I have other mango trees on the properties. It's only that one that was dying. It was a safety issue, that's the reason I did it. And I normally get permit for everything I have done. always get, I was not aware that I had to get a permit for a dying mango tree. It was not a hope tree. And I have planted a lot of trees in my properties. That's the reason I'm asking. I already spent so much money on this thing. I paid the fine, which was $1,000. And I don't know what's, I'm asking for For help.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. I believe you also submitted a letter for the record. You also sent a letter to the city asking for relief? Yes. Yes. I saw that in the packet.

Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item?

If not, I'll open it up to the board for questions or comments. Starting with... Mr. Perez.

I have some experience with tree permits.

Please make sure you're speaking into the microphone.

Yes, okay. I have some experience with tree permits. I guess I have a few questions. In my experience, the department is reasonable to these permits. to these type of situations. If there is any photographic evidence of the tree being in a deteriorating condition of any sort, I mean, I've had experience where if you just have something that shows that indeed it was sick, they give that type of consideration to that. My other question would be, is the appeal to this to simply not plant any trees at all? So he was asking, do you have any photographic evidence of the condition of the tree before it was cut down?

No, I didn't. No, unfortunately, we weren't even aware of getting a permit.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten a permit.

And his other question was, how much relief are you asking for?

I already paid the first $1,000, which was fine to me. It was a fine. Because... I thought once I paid the fine, everything is done. I paid $1,000 fine that was assigned to me, and I thought everything was done, and that's when my problem really started. So you're basically asking for total relief?

Yes, please. Okay.

I think that's the answer to your question. I may have comments after, but I just wanted the answers to that.

I might pull a Bob here because this means a lot to me. I understand exactly what's going on. I love trees. I have properties in the city of Miami. I load them up with native plants. I do all the trees and want to create a little forest on the edges and make it nice for the birds and the butterflies and all that stuff. I do not need a permit to plant those trees. However, if 10 years later, when it's this big, according to this, I'll have to pay $16,000 to take that out. That's not right. I know it's the code. I know, but we've had cases here before where they've measured the diameter of a ficus tree. You ever see a ficus tree with all the roots going down? A lot of air in there. And it was like equivalent to a forest. And we're like, no, no. So we have discretion to decide. I disagree. I mean, look, I've cut down trees that are dying. They're sick. And I think there was a case we had here last year maybe where I actually asked the previous city attorney, or maybe it was the year before, why do they need a permit if the tree's dead? And they said, well, that's the code. But who would think that? If you live in a house and your tree's dead, your thought is to get rid of the tree so it doesn't break and fall on things or hurricane doesn't break it, whatever. Or it's dying. You're like, okay, it's done. It's lived its life. Because that's happened too. I've cut a mango and the inside of it looks like chutney. It's just a giant, I mean, it's alive on the outside, but the inside's rotten.

So it's not healthy.

But for people like you and me and other people that live and own places here, it'll cost thousands and thousands of dollars to pay a professional to come out and tell you that your tree is dying. When you can see with your own eyes. I disagree. I'm up against the code. Once again, what I said, I love trees. I'm Johnny Appleseed wherever I have places. but they gotta be in the right place. And also when birds drop them. A lot of times oak trees grow right on the fence line because that's where they just happen to fall under the power line. And then they become massive and they become a problem, they're splitting properties, people are fighting over whose is what and you gotta cut it. Why is that a $40,000, $30,000 issue if you didn't need a permit to put it in the first place? Or whoever put this tree, 50 years ago didn't need a permit to put in the first place. I love trees, but this is not right. So that's my rant. I think that you paid a thousand bucks. It's funny for a dying mango tree.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to ask a question of the two officials who presented. Yes. Are you given arborist experience in terms of your duties in checking on down the trees or cut trees in order to issue violations?

Can you repeat that question?

Did you receive or do you have arborist training or experience in the midst of delegating the responsibilities of your job to find or discover cut or down trees within the city of Miami?

So I am currently not an ISA certified arborist, but I am a certified landscape inspector. Okay. And I have studied... for multiple years on understanding tree growth, tree patterns, root patterns. So yes, I have various experiences.

Okay. The reason why I asked is because they mentioned that the tree was, you know, ill. That's correct. I'm looking at the photographs, and I consulted with our landscape architect here on the board, and I see in the photograph, I'm looking at, I'm zooming in, into the tree, the cut sections of the tree trunk. And I'm seeing the tree portion, I mean the cut portion of the trunk to the extreme right as one mushy looking hole in the center. When I move across to the one in the middle, as I move to the left, I see two holes that Board Member Ryan referred to as chutney if something is happening. And then I move to the one to the extreme left there's another chutney-looking kind of hole in that one. So I'm counting four holes in total from the three cut sections from the photograph. And that could be signs of illness in the tree, correct? Or no? It seems to me, according to... Go ahead.

How you doing? I'm Sean Smith. I'm the Environmental Resources Coordinator for the City of Miami, 814 Northwest 20th Avenue. I am an ISA certified arborist, certified landscape inspector. The majority of our team is either landscape inspectors or arborists. The section you're referring to may be decay. It's hard to tell from this distance.

But you were there on site though, right? Sorry to interrupt.

I was not the person on site.

Were you on site?

Yes, I did conduct the site inspection, and at the time of site inspection, the pictures that are in the second exhibit is the pictures that was taken at that site inspection. At the time of the violation, which was submitted by code compliance, code compliance issues the violation, and then that permit, the property is issued with a violation, then a second portion of that violation is that they have to come into compliance with environmental, so the time in between the violation being issued and the actual permit having to be as part of that mitigation plan is two different timelines. So, yes.

Continue, sorry.

Okay, so in regard to decay, whether it's in a stem or branch trees have what's called coded, which is compartmentalization of decay in trees. And so they form wound wood, right? So you could have decay in the trunk or in a limb and that tree could be around for decades. So it doesn't necessarily mean that that's a condition of concern. If we were to see, we do have a mechanism in place and there is something in the code that refers to high risk trees. Typically, a property owner will submit an email with photographic evidence of the areas of concern. And if what is provided is in line with what is considered a high-risk tree, we will actually grant removal without a permit. But as the code is now, dead trees, you know, trees in poor condition all require a permit. Dead trees do not require mitigation. It's my understanding this tree wasn't dead yet. So it is hard to tell. You can say a tree's dying, but it's a little hard to tell just from a visual inspection, especially if you're not qualified to make that determination.

So in other words, the person who did the visual analysis issued a violation. They're not really sure if the tree's actually ill or not. that the tree is cut. Okay. Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Coley? Yep, thank you very much, Mr. Henry, and officials. A couple quick questions here. I think that, well, let me ask this. So, and this is a question for everybody there, right? So to the appellates, You had a tree in your property, and it was damaged, and it looked like it was a safety hazard. And so you didn't want it to fall. I mean, I think I can see the tree in Google Earth Street View. I mean, it was pretty big, right? And you didn't want it to fall and land on the house. Is that right? But you didn't know that you needed a permit to remove the tree. And so here we are. You remove the tree, city of Miami official issued a violation, and then it's up to our environmental resources department, does a spectacular job to figure out what's next steps. And so I think that the scenario here is that, and this is a question for our city officials, please. If the tree was damaged and it was hazardous, an arborist wrote a report he said it's damaged and it's hazardous they would like to remove the tree and they got a permit to do that would they still have to mitigate in such a heavy way because i think that's the issue here right it's a big fine and it's a lot of trees and so how do we find some sort of commonsensical so

For a homesteaded property, there is a drastic reduction in mitigation. Like I said, I wasn't on the lot. I think it was an empty lot. But at the time of the removal, I don't know. But I think it was an empty lot that we're referring to. But that being said, there's no provision in the code that allows for a reduction in mitigation if it's dead. the tree can be removed with no mitigation, but a permit is still required.

Sure.

If the tree is deemed a high-risk tree and they submit the proper documentation, they can submit the tree. A permit wouldn't even be required, nor would mitigation be required. But we would need that determination or that information prior to the removal of the tree.

Sure. So there's a couple things, I think, that are going on here, right? First of all, this is double mitigation because there was no Permit correct. So if if if. One thing, and I guess it's important for everybody to understand is if you had a permit, and even if the tree was healthy. I think you would only have to do half of what the city is requesting, but they double it because it's a violation. So that's. 1 set of information. The other set of information, I guess, would be then. So even if it was damaged and even if it was broken or split in half and they went and got a permit, they would still have to do some mitigation.

Yes.

Okay.

So, I mean, I think that's where Mr. Ryan and I think our board is struggles with this, right? Because there's that fact. And then the homestead facts, another thing like it, people may have a property that's just not homesteaded. It could be their family's property, and they could live in another residence, and I think you're only allowed to homestead one thing, right? So we're looking for a common, me personally, I'm asking these questions to see if we can, as a board, find a really commonsensical solution for this family that's not so onerous, but that also respects our city's environmental regulations. And you know, based on their testimony, the tree was sick and they thought it was going to fall over and they didn't know that they needed a permit. And those are the facts. So I think... before I pass this down the baton of speaking, then I would say that from my perspective, in the fact that this is not a developer and this is not a development and nobody obviously did this because they were rushing through the process of trying to get permits and clear land, I think it would be great if we could find some sort of commonsensical solution here for this family. So thank you guys very much.

Thanks. Mr. Fuentes.

Ms. Odell. No, well, thank you. But I totally agree with what you were saying. I think that, of course, we know that not knowing the regulation doesn't mean that you don't have to abide by them. But at the same time, I think it's very clear. It's about trust and trusting what they're saying. And, you know, I... have the same situation sometimes, right, where I also have a house, I have trees, I have to deal with whatever happens, you know, after a storm or something. And I think, as you say, you know, common sense, we, I think that the, you know, it was mentioned before, the remediation is really important. It's really big. I mean, I think it's intended for stopping, you know, deforestation in some cases or development. I don't think this is the case. I think this is something that we also have to take into account as a board. So thank you. Ms. O'Dell.

So I'm looking at... from the city of Miami, and the picture that we have shows, as Mr. Campbell was mentioning, that the tree is something going on, whether it's chutney or carpenter ants or something of that nature. This tree is not completely well. I'm curious to know, since the source of this picture is the arborist report by Big Ron's Tree Service from April 2023, where is that report? We should be looking at that report to see if Big Ron saw what we saw once they cut that tree down. Granted, we know that there's an issue that we're supposed to pull a permit, but this is a sick tree in some way, shape, or form, right? I've had this happen in my house. I know it's, but you know when you've got a contractor there and they're cutting the tree and they're going, oh, wow, look at this. We cut something, carpenter ants, thousands of them. Thousands on a ficus altissima. God love them. But yeah, I mean, what do you do in that situation? Because the tree is sick, and it's confirmed to be sick. The arborist should have stepped up and said it was sick. So I don't know if you want to take this up with Big Ron, if he's really big or not, I don't know. But I think it's something that you should have the conversation with, because as soon as we came up with that, when we had a crane, a bucket truck, a huge bucket truck, and a huge crane, and we had to pay by the minute with these people with the crane. I mean, it was insane. Travel time, everything. And I know that as soon as they saw an issue, and the arborist was there on site when we did this, As soon as they saw the issue, they said, that has to come down. It's dangerous. We did pay the $750 for the arborist report, but the arborist stood up to us and said, if you don't take that down, it's going to be a problem, not just for you, but everyone in this area, because the tree is that mammoth. So that's the way I look at it from my perspective, having been in this situation or similar situation. But yes, there was definitely an issue with the permit, of not pulling the permit, but I think common sense, nonsensical, as everyone's talking about, to give some amnesty to the owners of the house makes a lot of sense.

Mr. Bowers. Yes, thank you. So my question would be to you, the inspector. Are these abusive people and have they abused other properties? I'm asking him. I'm asking him.

I have not worked on this project.

Okay, so I would like to ask you, Mr. Henry. I mean, because you're the guy who ended up on the site. It is Henry, correct?

Last name is Henry, that's correct.

Correct.

So this is the subject's property ownership's first violation, only violation. There is no other violations that are pending on the property or any property that they own. All right, very good.

So my request would, would you be happy with them just planting more trees on this property? I'm saying it's an opinion. It's an opinion. Would you be happy if they just planted more trees on this site? I would always be happy to see trees growing. All right, that was my question. Okay, the thing here is what we generally deal with is architects who think they're smarter than everybody else in the room who build a house and then want to take down a 150-year-old tree behind a house that was just built to put in a pool a year later, right? That's what we deal with. The screw you to everybody. So this is not a screw you. These are people who are good stewards of their property, correct? And had a tree that was dying and just didn't follow the rules. And they've already paid a thousand dollar fine. Is that correct?

That is correct. A thousand dollar fine has been paid.

You know, my thing in this is I just want you to reforest the place. You know, I want you to plant more trees, you know, for me. That's my thing. Like, Yeah, whatever. I'm just saying, like I'm speaking to you as another human being, that if you take down a tree, you should probably replant another one. That's all. So that's all I have to say. Thank you.

Mr. Trachtenberg? Thank you. Well, I don't like the connotation you gave us architects, but I just want to...

But you know what? You know precisely what I'm talking about, though, through the chair.

So, question. So had they gone the proper route, had they gone the proper route based on what you had seen, what would be the cost associated? Required mitigation? Yes. What's the data we're talking about?

It would have been half of what this is.

Sean, can you speak into the mic?

Oh, I'm sorry. Please forgive me. The mitigation would have been half of what it is unless it was a homesteaded property.

If it was a homesteaded property, it would have been?

If it was a homesteaded property, the mitigation gets reduced drastically. In this case, it's not homesteaded. I don't.

What does that mean drastically? What does that mean drastically? Like, what's the.

The trees can be mitigated at a one to one ratio.

If you're moving one tree, you can plant another tree.

Correct. Typically. And the reason why the code is the way it is. is because you can't replace canopy like that with a two inch by 12 foot high tree. That tree took decades to grow. And even though it's a mango, it provides tremendous canopy benefits to the environment.

Okay, all right, so that's good. So basically, if it was homesteaded, it would be a one-to-one, right? Now, if I can ask, I see that you own the neighboring property, is that right? Is that a homesteaded property? I see that, I believe, it's you that owns the property next door? Are you homesteaded there?

No, no, but we stay in it sometimes because our families stay there.

Right, okay, but it's currently rented or something.

No, our families stay there.

Your family's staying there. So it's, okay, thank you. So from my perspective, what I'm seeing is basically it's a family property that is in her name. It's attached to it. So it's basically the same property, just doesn't have unity of title. And that they removed one of the property, one of the trees on that large property. This is the logic I'm using, guys. And had they gone through the process of doing it correctly, they would probably just have to remove that tree to plant the new one, one tree. Would there be a fee involved in that, or would it just be for one-to-one in that scenario?

Sorry, can you come to the, sorry. Sorry, excuse me, only the permitting fee, which is like $14.

And I appreciate it, because this is very informative for all of us, right, and also anybody who's watching. So in that case, I would like to look at it under that lens. And rather than planting another tree, it looks like there's a lot of trees on this property from what I can see. I would like to look at the $1,000 as being the one for one that would have happened should this, would have this been under that situation. Thank you.

Any other questions? Yes. Comments? Go ahead, Mr. Perez.

Okay. I guess one of the questions that goes to this is, how many trees are on the property currently? And I'll give a comment and then I'll allow you to answer. I've always thought that, because I've dealt with this a lot of times, the idea of making people replace a tree where there's a lot of trees, And then this situation happens where there's a property where there's lots of trees, somebody removes one tree, and then you physically can't replace them, and then you have to pay into a fund. I personally don't think that's fair. And I guess what it comes down to is taking down the last tree on a property, to me, is a very different thing than taking down one tree out of many on the property. So I guess that would weigh on my decision. So I guess I have another question after that. How many trees are on the property?

We have 13 more.

If you look up here, you can see how green it is.

I mean, I would, Bob, is it?

Bob is next. Yes.

Then my personal opinion would go to, again, this concept of you take down a tree to replace a tree. Now, my opinion wouldn't be to just comply and just put the smallest tree by code. The way I like to do it is whenever I can afford it, I understand that we're working with your money, to replace it with big a tree as you could afford or could feel comfortable with replacing i would think that would be the fair thing i understand you paid a fine but it'd be nice that if a tree is brought down another tree goes in there not a brand new tree so that it can possibly grow into a larger tree and then my other comment was i disagree that an investment property should require a higher replacement rate, especially because it's next to your home. And even if it wasn't, I understand that homestead properties are provided some relief, and I get that concept. But on the other hand, it ends up penalizing people that want to buy investment properties. I'm one of these people, so I understand how this feels. Anyways, that was just a comment that I wanted to provide on this.

Real quick. I would recommend going one for one, going to the adopted tree next year and getting a free tree. Because if you have a fruit tree there, replace it with another fruit tree. But with your 13 trees, it may not be enough sunlight. So the other thing is for the city, like, Just like my colleague, I'm certainly not attacking you guys. You're doing your job. I'm talking about the code. The code to me is a mess. And this is not from someone that likes clear off lots. I love trees, but it's just not set up for normal people. It's set up to abuse abusers, but the normal people that live in their house or have a few properties to rent, they're the ones that get the shafts on this. So anyway, that's it.

Yes. The price, I'm not sure how you guys come up with the price per tree of $1,000, but as somebody who has landscaped properties I've purchased and gone to the red land and hired trucks and flatbeds to bring multiple trees to the city, it didn't cost me a grand per tree. The technique or the method of approving a replant or a mitigated tree by the city, they don't have to buy it from a nursery owned by the city or anything like that. They can just purchase a tree, plant it, and then you guys come and approve of the planted tree regardless of what it costs the person. It's just a matter of the size, well, the trunk size and the height, correct? Correct.

So, yeah, going by code, and our department or division doesn't actually do the final inspections, but going by code, wherever the trees are procured is up to the property owner. Okay. And then, of course, cost is based on, you know, species and size.

Okay. So it's a matter of just locating an open space, planting the tree, and calling you guys and say, I'm done, I did the thing, and you guys write something. Okay, thank you.

I just want to add that as long as that tree meets the conditions and criteria as far as it being 2 inch DBH by 12 feet height by 6 foot spread, it has to be Florida grade number one or better. It has to have a one year guarantee.

What's that second to last thing you said?

It has to be Florida grade number one or better when planting for mitigation. If it's not for mitigation, it does not have to be Florida grade number one. But if it's for mitigation, it has to be two inch DBH by 12 feet height by six foot spread. And it has to be Florida grade number one or better. And it has to have a one year maintenance guarantee. Means that it has to survive for one year.

Okay. Okay. So that title you said or that phrase Florida grade. Florida grade.

According to Florida grade standards. That's correct. From the nursery. It has to be Florida grade. Graded out at a number one.

There's three different grades. Okay. Now, when you purchase a tree from any nursery, are they able to tell you this? Yes, that is correct.

So, yes, you will be able to. When you purchase a tree from the nursery, they will let you know that it is. If it's Florida grade number one or it's a Florida fancy. If it's a Florida grade number two, then it's not acceptable for mitigation.

Thank you.

And it will not pass inspection.

Thanks. Thank you.

Mr. Colley?

I have two questions. I guess two quick questions, and I'd be happy to try and make a motion.

It's okay. If we give the people down at that end another chance.

Oh, did we?

If we give them another chance.

Yes, of course. But you had questions. Well, but they're more specific to if we were to try and make a motion than just if we're just talking. Okay, well, hang on to that. Yes, sir.

My turn. Do I have anything else to ask? Okay. Back to you, Mr. Cawley.

Okay, thank you. I have a question for, and this is with all due respect to our city environmental resources officials, a question for the owners. Would you be willing or amenable to planting like one four inch, 16 foot height native tree in the location on the property if there's room, like a gumbo limbo or a live oak tree or something in its place? If that was amenable to the city staff, you've already paid your fine. seems that everybody feels the same way here you have a lot of trees um and then you would be amenable to that i think that would be super doable you could go to a nursery get a pretty gumbo or oak or something a native tree that grows quickly and then to our environmental resources officials Would that be something that would seem amenable? What would actually have to happen if we were to make a motion to uphold the appeal and add a condition, what would then happen for these owners? Would they have to?

That decision is obviously on you guys. Sure. We just kind of have to follow the code. But if your findings are that one four-inch by 16-foot height by eight-foot spread, Florida grade one, live oak or whatever it may be is appropriate, they would need to submit plans. And those plans would depict the mango tree that was removed after the fact. They've already, I'm sure, gotten through that or begun that process, yeah? They would show whatever you're telling us to do on the drawings, like per the HEP Board's decision. one live oak at four inch by 16 foot height by eight foot spread will be placed in this location. I would imagine it could probably go right back where the mango was, I would assume.

I guess, thank you very much, Mr. Smith. I guess my question, and I'm glad I asked, because that sounds like that's complicated, doing drawings and showing all of that and signing and sealing the drawings and understanding the specifications. Is there a way, in just a commonsensical way, if somebody wants to replace a tree on their property, that they don't have to go through that whole plans process?

This is residential?

Yes.

Residential. It can be hand-drawn.

It could be a little hand sketch.

It doesn't have to be signed and sealed. It can be hand-drawn.

I mean, to me, that seems like the most commonsensical approach here to this whole thing. And why don't you move it? Yes. Okay. So I guess I'll make a motion that we... uphold the appeal of the applicants. And so the condition would be that the applicants are required to plant one four inch DBH, 16 foot height, Florida grade number one tree, native species, live oak or gumbo limbo or something like that. Do a hand sketch or drawing provided to our city staff for approval. plant the tree, and they'll come back and make sure it's still alive in a year, and hopefully everybody can move on. You don't have these crazy conditions, and everybody wins.

Is there a second? Second. Motion and a second.

Any discussion on the motion? I think just one thing. It's like every time we want to replace trees, the first thing out of everybody's mouth is a gumbo limbo or an oak. I'm just saying, we say it, but what should really be the lead here is that it should be a Florida native tree, and it shouldn't have to be an oak or a gumbo limbo. It should be, because there's 40,000 trees that grow in the state of Florida. That was the easiest way. And everybody says oaks and gumbo. First off, gumbo limbo's you don't want to park your car under because they ruin the finish on your car.

You know, so there's that. So I'm just saying. I agree, Mr. Powers. That's why I said native species.

Okay. Well, I think that you should lead with the native and not so much the gumbo limbo.

So if I may, the condition will be to plant one four-inch DPH 16-foot high Florida native grade one tree. That was the motion. Is there a second?

Mr. Ryan, second. Second. Any further discussion on the motion? Good. We have a roll call, please.

Calling Member Christopher Cawley.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Hugh Ryan. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member, I'm sorry, Calling Member Najeeb Campbell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Elvis Fuentes. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Julie O'Dell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member John S. Perez. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Rob Powers. Yes. Thank you. And calling Jordan Trachtenberg. Yes. And also calling Chair William Hopper. Yes. Thank you. This passes by a vote of nine to zero.

Thank you very much.

Calling HEP number three, item three, file ID is 18326, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board, HEP, pursuant to section 23-6.2, subsection B4, of the city code of ordinances as amended, approving or denying a special certificate of appropriateness, SCOA, for a property within the Morningside Historic District to permit, in addition, partial demolition and alterations to a contributing property located at approximately 560 Northeast 57th Street, Miami, Florida, 33137, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings.

Is the applicant present?

Yes.

Please give your name and address for the record.

My name is Roy Ben-Mir, and I reside at 560 Northeast 57th Street. I'm the applicant.

Thank you very much. We'll start with the staff report.

Christina Jong, Historic Preservation Planner for Morningside Historic District. I request that the staff report be accepted into the record.

Yes.

This application is for partial demolition, addition, alterations, and site improvements, and to also permit some after the fact site improvements to your contributing structure. Here we have the location in Morningside. So here we see the current photograph and the historic photograph. So some of the alterations are to bring back some of the features that you see in historic photograph like the shutters the garage door You know bring back that porch a little To what it was before Here we have this another historic photograph a little later and the historic tax card so you do see the The historic plan, there was a open porch next to the front door that has been enclosed. So this is a more recent historic photograph. We estimate probably 1986 from the car. Here is also a HEPP photograph from 2015 when we had some resurvey showing the condition at that time. So they are proposing a partial demolition at the back to add the addition on and also replacement of windows in the front. So we have here the proposed addition, first and second floor plans. So you see in the second floor addition is very much to the rear but also some does come, you know, forward, I would say, in the front part of the roof. Here we have the existing proposed for the north elevation, which is the street-facing section. And you do see that the addition, there is a portion that is more forward on the roof, and there's a section that is a little more to the rear. That's the one in the middle that has one single window there. So we have the existing proposed for the east elevation. So you do see that in terms of the original window, it's just one that will be kept and then the other ones will be changed in the addition. Same here for the existing proposed for the west elevation. We do have one window from the original structure that will be kept and go back to that casement or keep that casement and then we have the addition and a new configuration for the other fenestration. Here we have some renderings of the front and also the back that So in terms of the context, the immediate neighbors are contributing properties on both sides. As you can see, the addition there is kind of like a more tower massing that you see on one of the neighbors. It does have that kind of second floor tower, but the other neighbor is a one story right next to them, and they are originally, of course, a one story. After the fact site improvements, there were some modifications to their fence wall. It was altered. You see originally it had this vertical fencing on the top of the wall. That was replaced by this red horizontal fencing. City of Miami historic design guidelines do not allow horizontally patterned fences, and we wouldn't have allowed the red color as that's not very complimentary to the house. So the applicant proposes that to keep this fence, but to restain it, honey gold, more like a wood stain. So they have put that into their application. So the Preservation Office recommends approval with conditions. So the ones that are bold are not our standard conditions, so I will go over those. Per the zoning department, the applicant should provide irrigation plans in the master permit set. These are comments from the zoning reviewer, so we've just put them in as conditions here. Also, the applicant should provide a landscape area five feet in width from the driveway along the side lot line in the master permit. We are asking the applicant to explore windows two, three, six, and 16 as double casements since these are original window openings in drawings. And then staff and applicant would determine whether it's visually appropriate and approve of the final window design from the study. Seven would be applicant to explore window five as either fixed or a casement fixed casement type with the original mountain pattern. Eight, the width of the shutters of window five shall be extended to match the ends of the horizontal stucco detail on top of the window. If you see in the historic photograph, the shutters in that main window were wider than the other ones on the porch, so that is what the condition is asking for. 10, the front door shall fit the existing and original opening. I have reworded that slightly from the staff report, but it's just to maintain what the original dimensions were of the door. They are proposing to widen the door. 11 is applicant to explore the recreation of the front screen door in the photograph before 1986. Staff and applicant will determine whether it is visually appropriate and approve of the final design from the study. That was a very distinctive kind of X-shaped design, so that's why we're asking for that. 12, the shutters on either side of the front door opening shall be reproduced following the historic photograph. Fourteen, the four shapes on the garage door shall be circles set apart in the dimensions on the historic photograph. The garage door shall be solid without any panels to reflect the unique original garage door design. Fifteen, applicant to study making the front facade windows 17, 18, and 19 on the second floor of addition more uniform are to reflect the scale and balance of the first floor windows of the original building. For example, like two narrow and one wide, or two large and one narrow. And 16, applicant to clarify function of the existing fireplace and our chimney in the finished project.

Thank you. Would you like to respond to the staff report?

Yes, I have a couple of comments that I would like to make. Okay. First, we received a letter from the association that supports our design. I know that it was a topic that was discussed earlier, so I want to make sure that you all know. Our neighbors know. Yes, it's in our packet, actually. Sorry? It's in our packet, actually. Oh, okay. I'm going to get to the comments. Number six, the applicant explored 2, 3, 6, and 16 double casement. We would like to keep a single casement as shown in the drawings that found in the district. Everybody around us have the similar windows, and I think that it's only fair that we can be able to have the same thing. It doesn't change the design. It's just uniformity within the neighborhood. Number seven, applicant explore window five to be either fixed or casement type. We would like to keep the double casement that is stated in the drawings and is similar to existing condition. This is a window in the front that we would like to be able to open and it doesn't change anything from the design. Number nine, The horizontal stock of detail on the addition shall replicate the two narrower horizontal bands in the historic carriage.

So if I can interject for just one second. Condition nine and condition 13, as seen in your staff reports, we've revisited. We're comfortable not including those two conditions.

Okay, thank you. So I'll move to number 10. The front door shall keep the dimensions of the historic door. What we are proposing is enlarging it in six inches because right now it's not centered in front of the house and it's narrower than the staircase. It's just a design thing and this is the front of the house and allow more light into the house because right now it's a glass door and This is the only reason that we'd like to keep it as we presented on the drawings. Number 11, about the screen. We would like to keep the door as in the drawings. We do not have a need to have a screen on the front door. That's going back to days that there was no ACs or there was no cooling options in the houses and people left their door in the front just to allow some air going in and out. And thank God we have ACs now and we're just Want to keep it the way it is? Please. And last one is number 17, regarding the chimney and or fireplace. It's capped on the top. And we are going to enclose it from the bottom. It's just a design feature. So I would keep it the same, to have the same look as the historical look of the house. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item? forward and give your name and address for the record.

Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. I'm a member of the Morningside Civic Association's Architectural Review Committee, and we looked at this design And for the most part, we were quite pleased that the design is congruous with the historic district and is compatible. I also want to point out how impressed I am with your staff person's very thorough recommendations. It has not always been that way. I've been doing this here with the city of Miami's historic preservation section since it was started in the early 80s. So I thank you for that. A couple comments. One, as you can see from what's on the screen at the moment, the shutters that are on the windows and the door on the first floor You don't have the shutters on the second floor, and I think it would be helpful if the shutters were also on the second floor. It would kind of tie it all in together. And shutters are needed. You need more shutters the higher you get because you have a greater wind velocity in a hurricane. So that is one comment I would make that might want to be considered. I think that would really add a lot to the aesthetic and the historic look of the house. And I do agree with staff, and I apologize. I disagree with my neighbor. I do think a screen door is a wonderful thing to have for those few days of the year down here when you get free air conditioning, courtesy of a cold front. So you may want to consider that, Roy. I think it would be helpful. Anyway, thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Not close the public hearing of the board for questions or comments starting with Mr. Perez.

I think it's a nice design without getting into, you know, the minutiae, the design, it's clear that your your architect put some thought into this. And, and I appreciate the scale that they kept. I've always I understand that in historic preservation, there's a tendency to want to keep a one-story house to one-story house.

I personally disagree.

The code's written to allow for a second-story certain percentage, and therefore, I think people should be able to explore that, and I think it's been explored in a good way. I respectfully disagree with the requirement or the comment to keep the door the size the original size to not allow to enlarge I think it looks it looks better the way it's actually been designed and I think that enlarging the door makes it better it's not like you're asking for a huge door that's just my personal opinion and again with respect to the gentleman that spoke earlier I think that requiring a screen is a very personal thing and I think that the applicant should be allowed to forego that if he does not intend to use it.

That's my personal opinion.

That's all. Mr. Ryan?

I might come back, but I had two quick thoughts, and it was about the door. Now, as far as the screen door is concerned, I like the original picture of the screen door from the original historic photo. How is that going to work with the out opening glass doors, the hurricane rated glass doors, because they'll have to swing out. So how would you do a screen door? Okay, that's a little complicated. Okay, because I'm thinking about mine, and I did mine with an in-screen door so that I could put a screen door in the front, because I do like to have it open. But I like, you know, and this is really not a personal preference thing, our purview is the face of the building that's visible from the street and the right-of-way, typically. And the screen door was a big feature. When I first looked at that historic photo, that's what popped out. Not so much the shutters on the side, but the screen door and the interesting design on that. The other question is about the front door. What is the width now? I think it's 36.

Well, 30 out of 30. I'm not 100% sure.

Maybe 30 or 36. But you wanted to widen it to what? You said you wanted to widen it six inches.

Yes, I want to widen it six inches to center with the stairs. Right now, you walk the stairs and the door is narrower. You get to a narrower door. No, I understand.

But I'm just thinking, I'm a contractor. I'm thinking practically. Okay. I widened my door, my 1914 house, to 36 for furniture. Because if it's 30, and some of these are 30 and 32, you can't get today's furniture inside the house. So what is it like right now?

If you look at one of the photos that shows the entrance, you have two poles that hold the front porch. And they're on both sides. And then you have three stairs that go up, and you have a small pedestal. But the door is not centered.

Well, the center is, I mean, I understand that. I'm talking about the actual width of the door right now as it is. If it's 30 inches, I'm for widening it to 36. If it's 36, it's done. For me, it's a practical thing. That's my argument. It's 30 inches. It's 30 inches right now. Yeah, well, I'd be fine with 36. Just out of practical, you know, you want to get a couch in, you either have to go all the way around the back. or anything substantial. I mean, like, you know, your shoulders. Anyway, my two thoughts are about the door. I don't know about the screen door and how that works with impact glass things, because Bob might refer to that when it gets to him. But I like the historic look, because to me that's a major component of the front of the house. The other thing is I've got no problem widening the door to 236.

Thank you. Mr. Granville.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this is a relatively easy motion to make. Everybody's agreed that the project looks well and is well adapted. It's a matter of going over the differing opinions on the conditions. Mr. Calum has already declared three that they have already done away with or are willing to do away with. I agree with my fellow architect colleague who spoke before about the screen door being a more personal option and the widening of the doors. You know, I agree with that also. I do like what Mr. Cruz said about repeating the shutters on the second story also. It does look strange when you have one under the ground and not one upstairs. It looks pastiche. And especially the second point he made is about the increased wind velocity. That's the one condition that I would favor. But the others, I think, just narrow down which numbers we disagree with and just move forward to a motion.

Mr. Cawley?

I agree. I think it's really nice. I agree with our architects on board. But I think it's a beautiful project and beautiful concept imagery. And thank you very much.

Thank you Mr. Fuentes.

Yes, so thank you very much. Again, I concur. I think this is a beautiful project, and I was very also interested in seeing the issue of the door, because we were looking at the old photograph, And indeed, 10 inches, as you were mentioning, is really very narrow.

And so I think that's something that

I don't have a problem, I don't see a problem in having the option if you want to do it to make it a little bit wider. But overall, I think it's a beautiful project. We have in the past meeting something similar that is respectful of the neighborhood, even though it's adding giving you the option to really add value to the property and to meet the needs of your family and things like that. And I think it's really important. So, I'm in favor.

Thank you.

Ms. Odell?

I'm very happy that you spoke with the organization, the neighborhood organization, because that is really the key to your success. Looks like a great project.

Thank you.

Mr. Bowers? my only comment is on when you redo the door the front door because you have the cuban tile that goes across at the um so when you look at the original or the photographs that exist as the property sits now that cuban tile goes across The top, the very... The stairs? Yeah, the stairs.

We're keeping them the same.

So what I'm just saying to you... Yeah, because you have to carry that all the way across when you put in the new door. Because you're going to go another six inches further over. Is that not correct?

I don't fully understand, because right now it's all... You have Cuban tile at the...

Underneath the door. Underneath the door.

Yes. Oh, yeah, I understand. All right. To extend them to be... So that it goes... So it's going to be uniform, the design. Correct. Of course, that's the right way to do it.

Well, if I don't bring it up and we don't say anything, then some people don't do that. I'm in agreement. And then they pull the tile off and then it looks kind of like, what's that, right? They can tell the door was replaced. The whole object of this game... is to not make it look like it got replaced. The new building can be whatever it is, but the original building needs to stay intact. Now, the other thing also is where the bedroom is located to the left side of the house, there's some type of a molding or something above the window. Is that three-dimensional?

That is, yeah, that pops out.

Yeah, all right. It's over the windows. And then when you go to put in from the original photographs, which I think those are fabulous to do the shutters.

I agree.

It's going to make the house look so spectacular. And it's also going to be functional, too. It's nice to do, even if you go away for an extended period, to have those to close. My request is that you look into doing it on the second floor, at least across the front. And I would also say that that, so what is that piece of concrete that goes across the top of the window?

Right there. It's a design feature. It looks like it's to keep it from dripping.

My request to you is to try to I would request you to put that above the windows on the second floor. To mimic that. To mimic it. I just think it's an added design bonus that they would probably... Because if you notice where your garage is, you have the two lines that go across like that. I'm just saying. I mean... I think that you should look at doing that across the top of that, or at least over the main window in the middle on the second floor.

If we do it, we should do it the entire way.

Sir, I don't disagree with you, okay? But I don't know if it should be broken up into three or be one long one across the top. If it was my home, I'd want to do one long one all the way across the top to mimic the window on the bottom floor. That would be my only, that's my only alteration to this. And to keep the tile, to try to mimic your tile or whatever. Go to a salvage place and find old tile like that to match it. And I think also with, I'm with Elvis. When November comes along in December and you want to leave that door open and you have that screen door on there, I just think it's, especially with the way that this house is faced, this is a north-facing home. That breeze that goes through that house has to be spectacular. So that would be my only other thing. And you can do the doors because on my building, where I live, the screen door is to one side and you open it up like this and then you have to open up the door again. on the other side like that. Because they have to open out now. They used to open in. Now they have to open out. So I'm not going to make that a condition. That's just an opinion. My conditions are that you should mimic the brow and that you should keep the tile the same. That's all. Thank you.

Mr. Trachtenberg. By the time it gets to me, it's like, is there anything left?

We've done anything. I'm just like, we need to make my job somewhat easier. This new system is going to get hard to get used to.

And it's like, okay. We'll go the other way next time. Yeah. So first comment, the first impression that I received, I'm not going to reiterate what's been said. I feel like that becomes a little bit too repetitive. When it comes to the height of your design intent, This is your architect over there? Maybe I can speak with the architect, if that's okay?

Yeah. My name is Javier Fernandez, 520 Northeast, 52nd Terrace, Morningside.

All right, thank you. Okay, so I have some questions for you. One, the overall height. What's the reasoning for such a tall roofline? What brought you to that thought?

In the elevation, it looks like a taller roof line. However, when you look at the rendering, it comes into perspective. It kind of goes back and doesn't look as tall.

Which is also a trick, too. Driving factor.

Well, yeah, in reality, you're not going to see it in two dimensions, right? So driving factor was ceiling heights. Owner wanted higher ceiling heights, and so it's a truss ceiling. It's a hip roof ceiling, so it yielded that. ceiling height and the second floor. Again, it was based off of the structural elements that are carrying the loads for the second story.

Yeah, I see that you have a five foot six sort of overall roof from Eve to peak of roof at the top portion of the second story. Correct. We wish we were trying to match the the slopes on the existing house. Right, okay, that was the question I had, because I saw that that was basically the same size. I was going to push back on the height, but I think the fact that you're keeping the same sort of roof proportions, I think it It's a good approach. Also, since the actual building is set back from the front of the facade, I think it favors the height. So I was kind of working through that, and I just wanted to check with you on that. All right, so that was just a conversation. The other thing is, everybody here seems to be so in love with these shutters. And my question to you is, are the shutters on the ground floor, they're purely decorative, right? They're not functional.

Their faux shutters are decorative. The reason we did not put them on The second story edition is not to create a false sense of history, which is also a part of the guidelines, and it's written down in the guidelines. Elsewhere. That's the only reason we did not do shutters on the second story. We wanted to kind of keep it simple and let the existing house be the most intricate part of the house.

I personally am in agreement with you on that. And the reason why I wanted to ask you about it, because there's two reasons that everybody had mentioned why they have the shutters. One is to use them, which they won't be, because they're fake. And two is for wind loads. They're storm windows, so they're not going to serve any purpose, even if you were to close them.

They're storm windows, correct.

So... i just want to put that out there for the rest of the board um so my last point is the the comment about the three top windows that are all different sizes uh 19 18 and 17. what's the what's the story it's it's driven by the interior so if you go to the plan view the window number

If you go to the second story, you'll see that there's a stair. There's a window that's centered on the stair as you go up. And then there's another window, number 18, that's centered with the bathtub. And then there's another smaller window by the shower stall. It came from that. They're all centered within each individual space. They're not driven by the form, but more driven by the use of the interior.

So making the shower window the same size as the stair would feel too large for you.

I think it's doable. I think it's set back enough that it won't be a privacy issue. If we wanted to make the Windows 17 match Windows 19 in size. I think that makes sense. Actually, I agree with that because they're kind of close enough that Right. It looks like a mistake. If they want to be, yeah.

Right. Or maybe average the two. I don't know. It's up to you. Just make them the same size.

Or maybe 19 goes to like something.

Yeah.

I agree. If I can interject just one second through the chair. Right. The condition was written to explore how to address that and provide us with a study that we can improve a staff level so that there is more balance.

We're happy to explore. Yeah, I think the condition was one large and possibly two small.

Yeah, or either one small and two large, something like that.

So I think we're all in alignment there. I do want to make note of, with all respect, Bob, the eyebrow thing that you had mentioned. That, I think, works on the ground floor because it's on a non-sloped surface above the window. I don't know where, I know you talked about agreeing with the, just to finish the, the idea of the long eyebrow across the, there's not enough room there, so I don't really see how that would work. Okay. Right. It'd be kind of forced, but yes. All right, so that's all my comments, and I will leave that there for now. Appreciate it.

Well, that's exactly what I was going to say. Perfect. Really.

So any other comments? One more. The plans are beautiful, and I think the reason why everyone knows up here is very aware of the Secretary of the Interior's standards to say that any addition to historic property has to clearly be different from the original. just the nature of it being a two-story on this and being so close to the chimney, you're going to know that it's an addition. But I think the fact that you, with the addition, are embracing what's there and not landing a spaceship behind it, which we see all the time because everyone has an ego and thinks it looks great. And I'm always like, well, people drive through the neighborhood and say, who approved that? Or who drew that? Or whatever. So I think the reason why people want to continue what was in the original is because you're embracing the original, not rejecting it and treating it like two different structures. So that's my thought as far as putting the decorative shutters up, because they're obviously decorative, and they don't serve a purpose. The brow, I agree with them. I'm not an architect, but... I play one on TV. So that's, you know, I think that's the idea behind that. And so I wouldn't be opposed to putting the decorative shutters up there for that reason. So that's my thought.

Anybody else? Just to amend one thing. If the shutters are fake, I don't care if any of them are there or not, top or bottom.

All right. Thank you. Noted. Anybody else to my left? Okay, are we ready for a motion?

Okay, who's gonna make it? Well, it's quite complex because it's a lot of, maybe you can help unwind this knot.

If you make your motion, I will help walk you through the conditions.

Okay, that would be great. Does that make sense? Yes, I would like to make a motion that item number three be approved with the following conditions.

So condition one, the site shall be developed in accordance, shall remain. Condition two, at the time of permitting or sub-perming brochures, shall remain. Condition three, all glass to be clear, low E tinted, shall remain. Four, per the zoning department, the applicant shall provide irrigation plans in the master permit set, shall remain. Five, per the zoning department, the applicant shall provide a landscape area five feet in width, shall remain. Six is a study regarding paired versus single. So originally the windows were paired casements. We had requested a study. We all know when you go to impact resistant, the frame gets much wider, the glass gets smaller. We had just requested a study to see if that may be appropriate or feasible. The board can certainly say the single Casement windows are fine, and we can omit that if the board is fine with that. I don't want to direct the board, I'm just telling you why we pursued that.

So if they're exploring, does that get approved by staff? It would be approved at staff.

Okay. We would ask them to provide us a mock-up in elevation, what that would look like, and how that would affect visually what it would be.

So it could, in theory, lean towards their current design. It most definitely could wind up that way. It's just a study. Is that okay?

It's a study. It's a study. Yeah. Okay.

So condition six, the applicant shall explore a study to be approved. Yes, that will remain. Number seven was very much the same. Originally, it was a fixed central pane with casements to either side. In order to recreate that visually, staff had recommended exploring doing that again or just putting a fixed window there.

Where is that?

That's window five. That's the large window with the tiny brow over it. So if you look at the historic photos.

That's the one in the front. We really wanted to be able to open it and not to have it fixed.

That's what I have.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there is a requirement for an egress window, so.

So number seven, the board wishes to remove. Yeah, remove. Okay, remove applicant to explore window. Condition number eight, the width of the shutters of window five shall extend to match the ends of the horizontal stucco. So that just, those shutters should be wider than the other shutters, that is what the intention of that, correct? So that will remain. Condition number nine, the horizontal stucco detail, we revisited that where staff is amenable to removing that. Condition number 10, the front door shall be no larger than 36 inches in width and shall include an extension of the tile to be uniformed. Condition 11, the applicant, again, shall explore the recreation of the screen door. It's not required. We're just asking them to explore it. Shall that remain or be removed?

My wife will never use that.

Mr. Chair, may I contribute to this? Thank you. I think we should just

I have no opinion on it, so whatever the board leans towards, it doesn't matter to me.

So condition 11, the screen door, shall be removed. Condition 12, the shutters on either side of the front door opening shall be reproduced following the historic images. Condition 13 regarding the color shall be removed. 14, the four shapes on the garage door shall be circle set apart and the dimensions shall remain. 15, the applicant shall study making the front facade window 17, 18, 19 on the second floor, the addition more uniform to reflect the scale and balance that shall remain. 16 shall remain. The chimney shall be capped and no longer functional.

But we'll be there for aesthetic reasons.

17 the resolution shall be included in the master set shall remain 18 the applicant shall comply with all applicable Requirements shall remain and 19 the applicant shall comply with requirements of all departments shall remain so with those conditions as read in by staff I'll second that Motion to the second is there any discussion on the motion?

We roll call please Thank you very much everyone We could all say no

Calling member Jordan Trachtenberg?

Yes.

Thank you. Calling, I'm sorry, calling member Najeeb Campbell? Yes. Thank you. Okay. Calling, I'm sorry, Christopher Crawley, Crawley?

Yes.

I apologize. No problem. Calling member Elvis Fuentes. Yes. Thank you. Calling member Julie Odell. Yes. Thank you. Calling member John S. Perez. Yes. Thank you. Calling member Robert Powers. Yes. Thank you. And calling member Hugh Ryan.

Yes.

And also calling chair William Hopper. Yes. Okay. This passes by a vote of nine to zero.

Thank you. No. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you.

Calling help item number four.

Is this action appealable?

I'm sorry. The action for, are you asking for number four? Yeah. This action is appealable. File ID 18324, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board, pursuant to section 23-6.2, subsection B4 of the City Code of Ordinances, approving or denying a special certificate of appropriateness, SCOA, for a property within the Palm Grove historic district to permit, I'm sorry, partial demolition, alterations, addition, and site improvements to a non-contributing property located at approximately 5, I'm sorry, 5904 Northeast Fourth Court, Miami, Florida, 33137, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings. Again, that address is 5904. 3-4, Northeast 4th Court.

Is the applicant present?

Yes.

Please give your name and address for the record. Carlos Martinez. And your address?

Of my property or? Yours. Mine, 5800 Southwest 195th Terrace in Southwest Ranchos, Florida.

Thank you. And now we'll start with the staff report.

I request that it be accepted into the record.

Yes.

So this is in the Palm Grove Historic District. We have the location here. We do see that it's on a main street and there are railway tracks on the other side in the rear. So you do see where the site is. The current photographs show there are a lot of additions, later additions that the applicant is proposing to remove. So it does take a lot of the current property. Also, the front yard has been totally paved hardscape and they are bringing back the front yard. So there will be partial demolition, but it's only of the additions, the later additions. And so you see here is the original tax card showing one of the later additions in the back. So they are maintaining all of their original floor plan. Here we see the proposed addition, the site plan in the back. It is one story. It will be a little higher. This is due to some duct work and mechanical stuff they need to put in. And there will be a pool and a little pool house in the back. So you see in the roof plan, they do have indentations, which we do recommend people put in just to show where the addition starts and the original house ends, so they do have that. So here's the renderings. So you can see here that they are proposing a complete restoration of the facade, the front facade here, including bringing back the garage door, this original window configuration, and there is a little open porch to the side, so that will be enclosed in terms of the windows as we recommended, which is one fixed pane. So here you see the historic tax card photograph showing that condition, and we really referenced that in terms of restoring the front. You do see in the elevation is a little higher in the back, but has also the similar roof shape. Here's the existing proposed in terms of the south elevation they're bringing back the original windows configuration the casement windows and then you see the porch windows are those larger expands. Of course in addition they have a kind of different administration so you can clearly see between the two. The same for the north elevation. They are bringing back, there's a single door and a window here, and then the addition is different on the end. So our recommendation is approval with conditions. Most of these are just standard. We do have two from the zoning that was PENDING COMMENTS, SO WE JUST ADDED THAT WE WANTED, THIS WAS A PART OF TREES SHOULD NOT EXCEED TWO AND A HALF FEET WITHIN THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE, AND APPLICANT SHOULD ENSURE ANY PROPOSED TREES ARE NOT WITHIN THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. SO THAT'S CODE, SO TO MAKE SURE WHEN YOU'RE BACKING UP IN YOUR DRIVEWAY YOU HAVE views for safety. We did add one in terms of the garage door to be one piece overhead opening. Right now they do have a wooden garage door that has a historic appearance, but it would open in the middle like a carriage door. And so, you know, one appropriate door would be our current recommendation and zoning department did put a later comment. Also, their elevation drawing should be a certain way and measured from the sidewalk elevation. So that is one additional condition from them. That's it.

Thank you very much. Anything you'd like to add to the staff report?

I'm sorry.

Is there anything you would like to add?

No, I'm perfectly fine. Wow. I just want to get it over and done with.

Okay, is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item?

Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. What I'm seeing here is truly remarkable. What this gentleman wants to do with this house is outstanding in terms of restoring it to much of its original look. Three things I wanted to mention. Page seven. Yeah, you can see it there. I'm reasonably sure from looking at the historic photograph that the corner of the house facing southeast was a screened-in porch originally. It's not likely that a house of this era would have had one large window without muntins or mullions. So that was probably a big screened-in section. Having said that, I don't think it would be realistic to expect someone to put back a screened-in porch facing southeast nowadays. I'm crazy enough, I would certainly do it, but I don't know if it's reasonable enough to expect other people to do it. So yeah, I wanted to commend this gentleman on the fine job he's doing there. I do disagree with staff regarding the garage doors. This gentleman obviously wants to do quite a bit of returning to the original, and these garage doors back then probably did open outward. I don't think they had the overhead type doors that we do nowadays in that era. And lastly, I wanted to make two comments, not necessarily on this house specifically, but in general. One of the problems with historic preservation is what I call the schizophrenia, where on the one hand, yes, we want to do historic, but on the other hand, It must be differentiated. So we're trying to go in two different directions at the same time. And this is a constant conflict that has been happening from day one. It makes no sense at all. And when you talk to people that are non-historic preservation people, that are common sense people, that are like 99% of the population, they say, well, this makes no sense. Why do you want to make it so that it purposely conflicts with the historic look? Anyway, we could expand on that some other time. The last thing I want to mention is that regarding impact windows, There is a very common misconception that hurricane impact windows can resist hurricane impact. That's not true. The standard for testing them is that they fire a two by four at them at the speed of 39 miles an hour. We all know that hurricanes can be upwards of 120, 150 miles an hour. Nevertheless, that's the standard. Moreover, If a hurricane impact window gets hit, it'll still crack. It's glass. The only thing special about it is that it has a thin layer of plastic between two sheets of glass. So it will crack and it will ultimately need to be replaced. So the idea of someone putting in shutters is a very, very good idea to protect that glass from being cracked. Thank you for listening. Thanks. Anybody else?

Yes, ma'am.

Hi, good evening. Elisa Cepeda, 531 Northeast 76th Street. So I too would like to say thank you. We weren't contacted, but we went ahead, the Palm Grove Board reviewed this through the agenda, and we are excited that this house will be cleaned up and put back into beneficial use i have one comment one concern that maybe you guys can discuss here i know that the tax card photo doesn't show any type of awning over the front door but to make it a functional house a functional entryway it Seems like it's missing something, so maybe we could work out something and discuss, you know, so we don't have just something pasted up in the future. This is a lot of work that he's undertaking, and that was the only comment that was really brought up. that the front seems like it's missing an awning. Seems like the front door is just kind of bare there. So that was it. And other than that, this house was lovingly named the preschool in Palm Grove. It looks like a preschool. It has quite a bit of tile everywhere. So again, you know, we're really excited that it's getting cleaned up. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? I'll close the public hearing. I'm going to move the board for questions or comments. And we'll start in reverse order this time. which means I get to start. And my question, first of all, I think is an excellent job. Thank you. And I'm agreeing with Mr. Cruz about the garage door being not requiring to be overhead opening, but like a door. But my question is, how are you going to put that detail on the front door, the squares? I think it's a wonderful touch.

My name is Lester Calleja, 8871 Fontainebleau Boulevard. Well, originally it's going to be a glass door with little frames, put it over the glass, not dividing the glass.

So it's like muntins?

Yeah.

Okay, so it's not etched into the glass. No. It's applied. Okay. That's the detail. Thank you. Mr. Trachtenberg.

I also agree that it's great to see this. I pass this house often, and I always have an opinion when I pass. So it's going to be nice to have the green space back in the front and to restore it back to its original condition. I also thought similarly about the front porch, as was just brought up. Are you concerned at all that when it's raining, the roof is literally going to be dropping water on your head?

I guess the experience that I've had with this house is that there have been so much going on for me to come to this point that I'm ready to say yes to whatever they tell me to do. My question is, where were the inspectors, I guess, before they started doing all these things in this house? This house is an outstore out of all the other houses around it.

Well, yeah. It was the Wild West back then.

Correct, yeah. So that's basically what I'm doing. Christina has been such a good help for me to try to get to this point.

Yeah, so I agree that that front area was definitely a porch that was screened in. Yes. So they would walk up through the screen door and then be covered, right? Correct, that's how it is, yep. But now you're entering, so as you're getting your keys or whatever, or your Amazon is dropping off a package, it's just complete waterfall.

Again, it's what has been approved. I would have done, you know, probably something for what it has been.

If you're open to it, I would suggest if it's a...

If I can? So, yeah, I don't see an issue with them providing a contextually appropriate awning fabric or something like that. We approve that at staff level. So, certainly, if you wish to include a condition that they explore, that...

Or probably just like a pergola or something like that. I don't know.

Yeah, I'm thinking more of something that's era-specific that staff could help you with. That would be great. So I'll leave that out there. It has to go through the whole entire board here, so that would be a condition for sure. I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead.

I also wanted to clarify, I think that the language on the garage door is, we wanted them to study, again, a contextually appropriate garage door. We thought, given the sort of modernity of this house, this may have been just a little farmish. We didn't want to put that in the condition. So I think the condition should be clarified, and we can work with the applicant on that.

That sounds good to me. I will reserve anything else for a second round, possibly.

Mr. Powers.

Yes, so I love what you're doing. Thank you. I created that historic district, so I'm very, very happy that you're doing this because it was horrible. And it was only done that way because it was a child daycare center. Oh, okay, I didn't know. That's what it was used for originally. I mean, it had been somebody's home, and then it had been... changed into that. At any rate, I want to know, the photograph that I have in front of me is the application photograph. And then if you go to the far right side where your garage is, you have the wood that comes...

I'm sorry.

Yeah. The wood that comes down... over the garage, because it shows it in that photograph. Yeah, there you go. You see that wood that's there?

Over the garage?

Yeah, over the garage. So I like that, and I also like the fact that it is a wooden door, and I do not mind that it opens out, because that's historically what it did. And I have the original doors off of another house in our neighborhood that they threw them out, so I collected them, because they're made out of Dade County pine. But at any rate, I have them if anybody needs doors. But nonetheless, I saved them. And I think that this would be the time that you ask for her help in putting a awning over that front door. Because when Summer's here... Yeah. Yeah. And I personally think that you should follow the length from where the... Concrete patio airs is from all the way to what would be the north side all the way to the corner of the South side and that's a very unique house because part of the house has a roof as that has that curve, which is very, very hard to do. You can't find people to do that. That's fabulous. Now, what kind of concrete tile are you putting on the roof? Or are you not? What is it?

On the board, it's a Capistriano. It's an eagle roof tile. It's a kind of a roof tile that we're going to use.

It's a concrete tile. Is it a concrete tile? Yeah. And a smooth tile, correct?

Yeah.

Okay. All right, very good. Congratulations. You did a great job. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ms. O'Dell.

No comments. Great job.

Mr. Fuentes?

Yes, same here. I really want to commend for doing this. And I see Christina smiling, so I think she's happy. I think everybody's happy with this project.

He was a wonderful applicant. He was very wonderful in terms of following the guidelines, like I said, and restoring the facade, which very rarely do people do that.

So after you go through the whole process, I'm sure there is some places where you can apply for an award for restoration, and because this is really commendable what you're doing. Thank you so much.

That's a good idea.

Mr. Cawley. No, I think it's great. Thank you very much. Beautiful job. Mr. Campbell.

May I speak with the architect, please? First, I'd like to say the front facade is very intriguing, especially the renderings you have. But I'd like to ask you about a couple of things. The roof plan that you have is quite complex. Is there a reason why your roof plan is so complex?

Well, originally, we have the original structure that has the roof lines is original. So we don't modify the original roof. So on the new one, we try to match the same pitch and coordinate with the new walls below. And it's quite a bit difficult because it's in different heights. We have the original house at eight feet tall and the addition is gonna be like eight feet high. So we trying to adapt to that original condition and put it on the top of the original, not demolishing any of that original structure.

Okay, but I just think that as you move from the original to the addition, It's an overcomplicated roof design, I think. I think you could simplify that a little more. And we'll segue that now on to the new roof goes up to 20 feet, one inch, it seems. 20 feet, one inch is what I have here in my drawings. And I'm wondering, for a one-story house...

Oh, 20 feet's at the top.

I know. At the top of the bridge. I know. So for a one-story house, the top, the apex of the roof is 20 feet. And the... It's at 12, correct? It's at 12, yes. They have approximately almost 8 feet of attic. Is that necessary?

No, because if you see the floor plan... Is it necessary? You mean it's not necessary? Is that what you're saying? No, it's just a design intent.

Okay.

Based on our client's requirements.

You're going to use it for storage? Are you going to make a room over there?

Please speak into the microphone.

You can share the mic together. Yes. So he said, I mean, to me, 20 feet for a one-story house, single-story house is quite high. And a 12-foot tie beam, it's high, but it's nice. Now you said you like the height. Does that mean the interior is going to be exposed? Ah, okay. Okay. Well, that segues on to what I said before about the complication of the roof design. If you're going to have an exposed ceiling with so many movements on your roof, it might actually take away from the beauty of an exposed ceiling because usually when you have an exposed ceiling, a singular run of exposed beams is more than to see all the movements. So you're going to have to kind of weave that together to get your exposed, that eight-foot height. So you might want to consider ameliorating that.

You see at the floor plan, at the proposed floor plan, we have a break line. When the original house stops, we're going to have a break line between the two structures. So starting on the kitchen, you're going to have continuous and highest ceilings. But we're going to have a break line on the ceiling right in that point. So you can have, we will have a ceiling height below that point different than the other one.

Okay.

It's not going to be continuous.

Oh, so you're saying as you move from the original to the new addition, your floor height actually goes up. So therefore...

No, it's going to be continued. Speaking to the microphone. Okay.

Last but not least, no window in the kitchen. I mean, your drawings, instead of saying east, west, you have just side and side. And all your renderings are only of the front. Your color renderings are only of the front. It would be good to have renderings of front, back, both sides. There's some comments on your drawings. So that's the renderings. More views in your renderings. Because when you focus on only one view, it makes me think that you have not developed the other views and just want to focus on that. No window in the kitchen. You're okay with that?

The kitchen is located in here. And we have... The two windows that we have there is on the side of the kitchen, not in the middle because we have the cabinets. But we have two windows, one small window.

Okay.

Just to a side to the kitchen. We have the window. We got a small window, and we have another big window facing the dining room.

Yeah, I know. There are not any openings that directly address the kitchen, a smaller one. And I did say last but not least, but there's one more thing. Your rare covered terrace has these two very tiny thin columns coming up and they look like sticks. What's the width of those columns? Is it less than 12?

The columns are 10 by 10 or 12 by 12.

They're 12 by 12. Okay. It looks strange. When you look at the drawing, it looks really thin. I know structurally they might be safe, but... consider widening those maybe to 16?

That needs to be coordinated with the structure. We are not at that point.

Okay. All right, that's it.

I yield my time, but hire a good roofer, because I know those valleys, if you don't do it right, you're going to have trouble. Okay.

Mr. Perez? Yes.

I'm an architect, so I'm going to have some opinions as well. First of all, I want to commend you for this work, the existing versus the proposed. It's like night and day. Beautiful. I love it. Another one of the things, specifically bringing back the green to the front is amazing. All too often, houses in Miami, people just somehow think that the more pavement, the more concrete.

the better, maybe a cultural thing.

I'm not sure I have my theories about it, but I love you bringing back the green. That's amazing, especially to the front and to the sides. Then, and I'm not sure this is even in our purview, but my opinion, I'd like to encourage you, not only as an architect, but as a developer and investor, even for the value of property, And also to add to the community and to the streetscape to consider planting out of the trees that you have proposed in the front, consider planting one large tree if you can afford it. I understand landscape is left till the end, so a lot of times it gets punished. Okay. I think that placing one large tree in the front would bring this feeling of community, this idea of the American dream, the front yard with the trees is just this iconic look.

Where would you recommend it, like in the front?

In the front yard, in the green space. I understand a lot of people like to use the green space for potential parking. Maybe they're not allowed, but I understand the way people think. But if you could place it in the green space that you have there, as big a tree as you could afford or source, I think it would elevate this project significantly, in my opinion. And even if you were to get your plans approved as they are, and in the end you choose to plant a bigger tree, code enforcement will never have an issue with that. That's the game that I play.

I saw the mango situation.

Yeah, that's true. You go smaller, you're in trouble. If you go larger, They'll be happy. And then the last thing, I guess it goes back to a little bit of what my colleague here was talking about, the rear. I think the front is beautiful. There's all these beautiful details in the front. And I understand that this board probably looks at the front, and that's mostly what's regulated, if I'm incorrect. The rear looks a little forgotten. Okay. And if you budget, if you can consider this, the sides, I understand, maybe they're not going to be as visible. They're going to have plants. So if you could make the sides look like the front, great. But I would strongly encourage you to make the rear congruent with, basically, go along with the front.

The front is so beautiful.

I think the public is going to appreciate that. But whoever lives here, if they're in the rear and they feel like it relates, I think it'll also make a difference in those people's lives. Thank you so much.

Do you think 16 inches is better than 12 for the two rear columns?

I mean, I'm not even going to get into that. I think the overall facade requires some work to make it look as beautiful as what you've done in the front. I agree.

Could you go back one slide? I just want to ask one question. So that large window on the right, do I understand it that the middle section and the lower two panes, I guess, are fixed and you have two sets of casements. Perfect.

It really is.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, I got an idea. Yeah, so do I. Why don't you put the, from the historic photo, the tree that's to the left of the building is a South Florida slash pine. Those are nice to recreate, historical, that pine tree. Let's put one of those back. I mean, suggestion.

Any more comments to my left? Or to my right?

Someone ready with a motion? So be it. So make a make a motion to approve as stipulated by the city. Is there anybody on the board who has any comments that they want to add to that or no?

Well, it's the one comment about the overhang in the front. Yes.

The awning. Two comments. Garage door, where are you landing on that, and the awning?

I think my motion is going to say that the garage door should be able to open.

I mean, explore that.

But I like the fact that it, because that's the old-fashioned way that the garage would have been used. It would have opened the door. And the other thing would be the awning, that you should explore the awning and work with Christina, because you're going to need it for the summer when your house is built. And the only thing was Mr. Campbell had brought up the fact that he's just worried about your support beams in the back possibly being, they need to be a little bit larger. I think because of the opening and the size of the opening that it should be a little bit larger. And I don't know what that should be, whether it should be another foot larger all the way around 12 inches or something so that it is... complementary to the opening and it doesn't look like weak. Does that make sense, Najeeb? Is that where you were going with that?

That's exactly where I was going.

From an architectural standpoint, the size of that should be just a little bit bigger than just beef it up, come up with a, I don't know, what your measurement wants to be or whether you want to follow like the size of the bricks in the front of the house, like how big those bricks are that are used either side of, like that kind of a thing, do that kind of a mimic type deal?

Probably we kind of mimic some kind of finish.

We just think that it needs to be a little bit larger than what it presently is. I don't know what that should be. I'll leave it up to staff to do that. I just think it would look better, and he thinks it would look better.

You did say it's up to structural, but I think you should move on.

We need to coordinate all those plans with the structural. We are in a schematic design.

It's going to look better, trust me.

All right. And I didn't look at your landscape plan, but John is correct. A nice-sized tree in front of a finished product makes all the difference in the world. And they run anywhere from $1,700 to $2,500 for a significant tree in the front of your house, and it'll make all the difference in the world, especially when summer comes.

I'm just letting you know. I highly consider that.

That's my motion.