Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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[Music] Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, to our August 27th planning commission meeting. Um, I will call this meeting to order at 6 o'clock p.m. Madame Clerk, can you please call roll? Commissioner Nighton

here. Commissioner Ramirez here. Commissioner Thomas, he is running late. Vice Chair Holler here. And Chair Madrid here. Um, officer, would you lead us in the pledge of allegiance, please? [Laughter] He's looking for What's your name? Officer. Thank Thank you, Officer Danny.

To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay, that takes us to uh 4.1, a brief history of and and an introduction to planning. Could I please ask the community development director Orlando Hernandez to introduce tonight's presentation?

Chair, thank you. Um, as we discussed last meeting, we were going to uh uh do a couple of training sessions for the commission. So, this is the first one. And I think I know now why uh Commissioner Thomas is running late, but uh I will discuss this with him. So with that, I'll have uh senior planner Fernando um do the presentation for us. Thank you, Fernando. Thank you. Um so if we could have the presentation up on screen. Thank you. Uh so uh as mentioned uh the presentation before us is going to be for an introduction uh of history and planning. Um this is going to be a very brief history of urban planning as each of these slides alone can be an entire presentation. Uh so let's get to it. Um oh and also if you have any questions please save those for the end. Um and if you have any questions in the future please let me know. Uh so before I begin I do want to start with this quote. Uh the cities will be part of the country. I shall live 30 miles from my office in one direction under a pine tree. My secretary will live 30 miles away from it too in the other direction under another pine tree. We shall both have our own car. We shall use up tires, wear out the road surfaces and gears, consume oil and gasoline, all of which will necessitate a great deal of work, enough for all. This was uh from Lucuzier, the radiant city in 1932. So cities they attract people. Um we are social creatures by nature. Cities take various forms. So they range from large cities, small cities, historic cities, different kinds of cities. And we were all attracted to these. All

of these are planned and they have different designs through how they're planned. These aren't mere coincidences of how this happens and why this happens. So, we actually take part in the form of cities and why they are the way they are through planning. So, a lot of these places very attractive in different ways, in different forms, in different shapes. So why did cities come about? So cities began actually towards the beginning of the last age, last ice age about 12,000 years ago. They were formed for various reasons. Most notably because of resource availability, strategic location, and social political factors once civilizations began to be created. So a lot of cities actually what's very interesting and a lot of people don't know is that they're founded on swamps. A lot of today's major cities so Paris, London, New York, Mexico City all on swamp land. Uh this is because it provides a lot of fertile resources and they're easily defendable. Um one cities and empires begin to rise. Uh different factors such as social and political factors cause different cities to form and some cities form around certain material. So like gold rush cities. Here we see a map of where some of the ancient cities first arose in different parts of the world and different timelines. One of the things that I do want you to note is the vast difference in timeline between all of these ancient civilizations. And something that I found very interesting in reading and looking up all of these civilizations is that a lot of these places actually lived just like we do today with the exception of the advances of modern medicine, electricity, and computers. uh they had very similar lives, very similar struggles, very

similar thoughts. And this was almost 10,000 years ago starting. So during this time in history, you're going to see that there's going to be a lot of ups and downs and a lot of repeated issues and a lot of repeated patterns that humanity is going to repeat. So the age of ancient cities comes to an end um at around um 100 uh BCE uh with the fall of Rome and Delihokan. They became overcrowded. So in a lot of the ancient texts that we read uh again a lot of those similar patterns these cities grew very fast and people would say they're becoming overcrowded. Uh with the fall of Rome they had to deal with the constant invasions from the north. uh they began to decline mostly because of the same factors that we see in the modern world. Uh environmental issues, social political factors, uh weakened uh civic institutions and so they all these ancient civilizations collapsed. Once these civilizations collapsed, it brings us to the middle ages and the renaissance. So oftentimes called the dark ages in Europe. So a lot of these cities that had been once prominent centers of culture and education uh entered into decline. A lot of people went out to the countryside in Europe. Uh sanitation was not great. The during this time the black death took over which I'm sure you guys know wiped out a vast amount of the population. But allnot was lost throughout the world. So in the east the silk road flourished. The Mongols conquested most of Eurasia. Um in the Byzantine Empire it was actually Constantinople which is modernday Istanbul uh became the capital for the Byzantine Empire for over a thousand years. So that's four times longer than uh the United States has been a country. Uh Meso America and the Noidlan and Cusco served as the centers for their respective empires. The Mayan Empire peaked between 250 to 900 AD. Uh their advances in astronomy and engineering were not going to be matched

until the 1800s by our civilization. Um and then also I did want to briefly note that what's going to become the future US there is also cities flourishing within our continent. It's just that we don't touch on this a lot in textbooks. So the Mississippian culture existed from 800 to 1800 1600 sorry CE. Um and then the PBLO culture from 500 to 1300. Um but there was a 300year drought. So if you all can remember a few years ago California went through a six-year drought and how strained we were. If you can imagine that, but take that six-year gap over 300 years, you can see why some of these civilizations and cultures collapsed. So, by the time um the new world was actually discovered, they had already collapsed, but uh they were um there's ruins to, you know, see this. Um the Renaissance actually begins to form in the 15th to 17th centuries. Uh so, cities become again the centers of learning and education primarily starting in Italy with Florence, Venice, Milan, Rome. uh they became prominent. Uh this spread throughout Europe, Northern Europe, Spain and Portugal send expeditions to the new world and they discover uh the age of discovery and exploration begins. So here we see um a brief history of the discovery of the new world. So Hispanola is the first settlement in the Dominican Republic. King Fernad in 1513 creates the first set of rules for new cities in the new world. Uh in 1521 the Nitlan falls. uh the first Portuguese settlement uh which has a city council is actually founded in Sao Vicente Brazil. Uh and then the first set of rules uh the ordinance concerning the discovery, settlements and pacification of the Indies is issued by King Philip in 1573. So how many of you have been to Latin America?

All of you? Okay, most of you. Um, so as I'm sure you have all seen, Latin American cities have a very familiar pattern with a central plaza. There's usually a cathedral. This comes from that rule. So it goes to show that 500 years later, it's still in effect and it still works. If planning is done right and it hits the nail on the head, 500 years later, they're still doing the same thing because again, they got it right the first time. So that comes from that in6007 James Towns is founded. This kind of shows where the world is at that time. Uh eventually settlements become unrested and they begin to seek for independence. So enter us. The US enters chat. Uh in 1682, William Penn uh does a plan for Philadelphia. Uh Savannah in 1733. One of the pictures that you saw earlier is America's first planned city. In 1776, the United States begins to declare independence. And in 1791, Pierre la Ephant uh is actually commissioned to prepare a plan for the capital of the United States also in Swampland. Uh in 1811, the commissioner's plan to establish the city grid of New York City occurs. So, we're laying the found the groundwork and foundations for the United States. Something at this time begins to happen in England. So as you see in this map, it's actually the industrial revolution and you'll see that in different places in the world, it actually spreads at different times whether for benefit or for fallback. This will depend on the actions of the actors and the regions that it comes to as we will later see. So the age of industrialization and expansion, the first wave of industrialization focused around the railroads and steam power and textiles. So again it started in England and eventually it came to the

United States. So cities such as Boston, Providence, New York uh had set up been set up for success for this because of the need for their location along a water source. It caused a lot of overcrowding, a lot of pollution, sanitation issues, and the spread of disease. These were common problems. So if you ever look at movies back in the day and they're glorifying the past at this time, that's not the case. So the the cities were filthy. There was a lot of issues. There was a lot of disease. There was a lot of things going on. So cities were not places that you wanted to live in during this time. Uh during this time also St. Petersburg is founded and the French Revolution begins bringing the age of monarchies to an end and also ushering the wave of independence in other countries. Um, in the United States because of these issues of the the issues within cities, there begins to be a push of expansion out westward. People want to leave. They want land. Uh, so in 1785, the United States establishes the land ordinance so that they can begin to survey and sell off western lands. Um, after the Revolutionary War, the Homestead Act is also passed in 1862, which allows any adult citizen or intended citizen who have never borne arms against the US government to claim 160 acres of surveyed public land. Oh, what a time to be alive. In 1818, Robert Owens publishes a report to the committee of the association uh basically as to how to relieve these overcrowded towns and settlements. So, again, the same issues are happening. So the age of reform so people begin to get tired of all of these issues that are going on in cities. So the sanitation movement begins in the United Kingdom in 1838. Uh construction of sewer systems and sanitation begins. Uh most famously in 1855 London physician Jon Snow publishes his map of the kolera outbreaks of Soho in Westminster

England. So this basically links the issue. So people believe it or not this whole time people did not know that disease was transmitted through water. So we begin to actually incorporate a lot of this systems into our cities. Uh it's famously quoted uh somebody saying one of the people that reformed Paris during this time. Paris is an immense workshop of putrification where misery, pestilence and sickness work in concert where sunlight and air rarely penetrate. Paris is a terrible place where plants shrivel and perish and where all seven small influence four died during the course of the year. In 1848, the public health act included the construction of sewage systems and clean water in Britain. In 1853 and 1870, the construction of the reconstruction of Paris happened. Um, and in 1880, Germany became the first nation or what is to become Germany uh to begin education in the technical universities for urban planning. So after us recovering from this first wave of industrialization, a second wave of industrialization hits us. So this focuses on mass production, electrical power and the assembly line. So there's going to be major implications because of this. In 1880, Pullman begins to the construction of Pullman, Illinois, which is the first company model town. So he basically constructed a model town for all of the workers in his company where he basically uh let them buy their homes, but then he also controlled every aspect of their life. So where they work, where they live, and then all the stores. So it basically became a self-contained ecosystem. Uh in 1890, Jacob Ree publishes on how the other half lives uh in the New York slums which shows there as you can see in that picture the issues surrounding major cities at the time. So again because of the overcrowding and overpopulation that arises because of the second industrial revolution. A lot of immigrants are coming over from Europe. They want to advance. They want to move forward. So this leads to a lot of issues of

overcrowding and sanitation. And so again, similar to what we had seen in the first industrial revolution. So these are just some images of life in New York back in the time. So again, very very overcrowded. As a result, the city efficiency movement begins to arise which focuses around uh the industrial nations and they sought to eliminate waste in all areas of the economy and society. So it was very top down based, so very expert-based, very professionalbased, very mathematical. Uh here you see the construction on the lower corner of Camber and on the the lower other corner uh the first skyscraper in Chicago is constructed. Uh so as a result again now we see the counter movement people want to go out of the city again. So arise garden city. So in 1898 Ebenezer Howard uh publishes uh tomorrow a peaceful path to reform. And so this launches a city garden movement. So where basically everybody wants to have a little piece of green. He says that this would be a good solution to a lot of the problems that we're seeing in cities to get people back out in nature. Uh to introduce the countryside back into the city, a peaceful mergence of these two. So this is actually adopted throughout the world. Uh different cities and different places a lot of them here in the United States adopt this model. So that actually looks very similar to what we're starting to have modern cities look like. Uh particularly in the United States, Rabbon, New Jersey, Forest Hills. uh they have some of these principles and concepts in mind. Radburn is famous because it's actually the first city that is focused around the automobile. So and they introduce a culde-sac and various different aspects. So with different pedestrian paths. So they begin to remove the pedestrian away from the public realm. So along this time period the city beautiful movement also happened. So along Chicago. So in 19 in 1893 sorry the Chicago World's Fair happens the

McMillan plan of 1902 for Washington DC the Philadelphia plan for 1907 and the 190 plan for Chicago. So the focus and premise around the city beautiful movement was if we can make our cities beautiful this will basically encourage citizens and residents to become good themselves to become better. It's going to inspire residents. uh eventually what happens is that a lot of these plans are not implemented and the rise and fall of American planning happens. So this is just a brief overview of what happens um in the American planning uh zoning under discriminary legislation in California begins to take hold. Uh the first precursors to planning commissions in Cleveland happens in 1902. bill and in 1907 the first planning commission uh is formed. In 1909 uh the planning uh conference in DC happens and there's a bunch of other topics that we will discuss right now that happen. Ukidian zoning is considered the fall of American planning uh primarily because it changed the way that cities were traditionally built and that it's it its intentions were good. It was to separate industry away from residential and commercial zones so we wouldn't have the effects that happened in the first industrial revolution, the second industrial revolution. But what happened is we took it too far and that we spread out everything. So eventually in the future there comes a point where cities have over a 100 zoning designations for every single zone which then causes our cities to no longer be walkable, to no longer be livable. So that this decision right here proves detrimental to American cities in the future. We just did not know it at the time. During this time also, New Deal communities are occurring. So people are looking for ways to resettle different areas of the United States, bring up the economy because we have just gotten out

of World War I. So a lot of different communities are founded. Uh Arthurdale, West Virginia is one of the more famous ones trying to restore that agrarian lifestyle and to get people to lift themselves out of poverty. Green belt cities are a part of this. They are controversial in that uh they do have restrictive covenants as to who can live in these cities, most notably Greenell, Wisconsin, Green Belt, Maryland, and Green Hills, Ohio. Uh they're founded by the resettlement administration in the 1930s. So, this will have major implications later on for communities of color and that they won't have access to resources and to build generational wealth. During this time, there is an exhibit called Future Amma and the New York World's Fair. So, we begin to see the foundations of how modern cities are going to be affected. There's actually a plot and the more you dig into it, the more enraged you should be. Uh so a lot of the companies uh particularly like General Motors, they actually issued um these types of exhibits that show the city in the future and what this futuristic city is going to be to try to sell you an idea that to try to addict you to a certain way of life that you need a motor vehicle that you need a car. So again, this is the 1930s. It hasn't happened yet, but they're already laying the foundation for it. World War II happens. So here we see Cologne, Hiroshima. There's a brief moment in uh the world, a pause. After the World War II happens, a lot of families return back from the war after having fought. Uh they're looking to establish families, buy homes. A lot of people of color relocate to cities looking for upward mobility. However, once this happens and we get white flight from the center cities, people begin to move to the suburbs. Restrictive covenants keep people of color from purchasing homes in a lot of

these suburbs uh and to keep them out. So then that causes the decline of the inner cities and a lot of American cities. So this is also exacerbated sorry exacerbated by the decline of certain American industries which causes the decline of certain cities particularly in the Midwest. cities that we're going to see are not able to adapt and are not able to change to the changes that are occurring globally. Uh there's also the rise in shopping centers and malls located in suburbs. The rise of so the suburbs is accredited to Levittown in New York. It's considered the first mass-produced suburban neighborhood uh founded by Abraham Levit and his company with Levan Sons. Uh, and the GI Bill, formerly known as the Service Men's Readjustment Act of 1944, helps a lot of families get loans to buy a lot of these homes. Uh, so it helps provide that um that framework, that mobility for a lot of these families who previously didn't have access to this. So, a lot of people begin to move to the suburbs and leave the cities. Consequently, enter General Motors again and a few other companies. So, this is one of the things that you should be enraged. So actually a lot so America is notorious for not having a good public transit network. That is actually a lie. We used to have a very good public transit network. It's just that during this time in the early 20th century a lot of corporations actually colluded bought up a lot of these public transit networks particularly in Los Angeles. There you see the map of the famous rail car system that used to extend all of Southern California. It went all the way from Los Angeles to Riverside to Santa Ana to Long Beach to Santa Monica. It it connected all of Southern California. And these rail networks and trolley systems were actually bought and set up to fail on purpose so that you can then purchase their products.

At the same time, we now have the push for the Federal Highway Act of 1956 and the guise to should there ever be another war, we can easily mobilize the military. uh provide easy access to all of our cities uh throughout the nation. Uh but it actually helps a lot of people need to purchase vehicles and to spread suburbia. And so this was 41,000 miles of interstate highway that were built during this time. The effect we see that cities go from small compact you need to walk everywhere and then with the introduction of street cars to sizably you know you you most cities will be within the orange and the yellow circle to now we are within the green circle and even worse the blue circle. So cities now have no boundary. They can expand nonstop and the result is what we see to the right. And this in the future will lead to the creation of edge cities. So there we see Ontario, California. Um so edge cities are basically on the fringes of major cities. So they feature extensive shopping malls, restaurants, entertainment venues catering to the needs of both residents and workers. And this was popularized in 1991. So they're not true cities that were founded back when cities were originally founded. They arise as as a result of suburbia and uh sprawl. During this time, we also have two conflicting interests. So, commercial development is fighting each other. So, the shopping malls and the pedestrian malls in downtown. So, the shopping malls is founded in 1956, the first one in Southdale Center in Minnesota. It basically seeks to create a downtown within an enclosed space that's going to be aironditioned, safe, it's going to be inviting. But what that does is that it actually kills a lot of the downtowns in America. And so what happens is a lot of

these cities with declining downtowns seek different ways to try to bring them back to life. So they introduce a concept of pedestrian malls that they had seen that worked in Germany very well. So in the 1950s they begin to take out their main streets and then create these walkable centers which actually function for a few years but because they didn't understand completely the psychology of humans and how they operate a lot of these failed. And so by the end of the 20th century, a lot of these were actually ripped out and restored back into uh streets. However, the ones that were successful and that were successfully implemented to this day remain in operation. One of which is in downtown Riverside. And so that was because of the constant reinvestment, the constant upkeep with the community support and the acknowledgement that this is something that's valuable to us and that we need to keep on putting our time into it. So again, the concept and the theme of times are changing, things change. If we don't adapt to it, we will fail. Walmart, Blockbuster kill most of these, even the shopping malls and the pedestrian malls. But again, times are changing. So then they get taken out by Amazon, Redbox, and then they get taken out by Teimu and Netflix. So again, companies that are not adjusting, cities that are not adjusting, people that do not adjust, if you don't adapt, if you don't basically change, uh it's not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones that are most adaptable to change. So this theme is also prevalent and present within cities because cities can be thought of as organisms. Urban renewal. So this started in the 1940s. So uh there was very

well-intentioned efforts during this time for us to reinvigorate bring back life to cities. So what happens is that a lot of slum clearance happened but this unfortunately happened in a lot of communities of color. So that wiped a lot of uh housing that provided previously a lot of foot traffic to a lot of these commercial cores. So that further exacerbated a lot of the urban centers into decline even more. So here we see a few of the cities of what they looked like in the 1950s and what they look like today. So they actually bulldoed a lot of the communities to build highways to build parking lots so that people who live in the suburbs can drive into downtown and then drive out of downtown. But what does that do combined with uklitian zoning? It creates these dead spaces when once the 8 to5 nineto-5 workday ends there's nobody there's no mix of uses there's no restaurants there's nobody living there's no people walking their dogs their pets uh running errands so the American cities begin to enter into decline public housing is also introduced during this time as well intention efforts uh most notably Puitigo and St. Lewis. Uh however uh they followed some concepts of the be city beautiful movement in that they decorated a lot of these apartments with very lavish very extravagant finishes in the inside thinking that that was going to be enough to motivate people not providing services to go along with the housing like child care that we know today is necessary public transportation as to how these people are going to get to work. So eventually these actually enter into decline and there's a lot of crime, there's a lot of issues with them and by the 1970s they're demolished because of the lack of understanding as to how to implement this very good intentions but they didn't know at the time that in

addition to providing the ser the the house you need to also provide services. Does this look appealing to you? Yeah. Yeah. I would Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is this is the this this is what is being sold uh to America during this time. So, you want to own your own car. You want to have your house with the lawn, with uh the ability to drive everywhere. You know, the nostalgia of the drive-in, with the diner, and all of that. Very, very appealing, right? What they do not mention is the reality of what caught the suburbs, the effects of the suburbs. How many of you have been in stuck in traffic for at least an hour in the past week? A few of you, right? Yeah, exactly. So, as a result, so everything in planning has a positive effect and a negative effect. In planning though, you need to choose which ones you're going to take. Suburban spraw leads to this. It doesn't matter if you add another lane, the traffic is going to come and it's going to fill it up. They always say, "Oh, we have so much traffic in the road." It has been proven time and time and again if you add another lane people are going to take up that lane and traffic is going to be restored back to the levels that it was within a year or two years. The other result is leaprog development and mass spread suburban development. So this right so it's interesting we see this kind of development in the United States but the same society that has this kind of development is actually leading us to the third industrial revolution. So the area uh the era of automated production electronics and computer the same civilization that is now sending man to the moon and launching satellites into space. So we seem to be advancing and doing stuff very very well. We are a very intelligent species. But why is it that our cities are starting to look

like this? And so we're starting to see the history of it, right? So new cities enter into prominence. Tokyo, Shanghai, San Francisco, a lot of these cities and nations that are categorized by the digital technology, renewable energy, solar and wind power begin to enter and take key aspects. the cities that are not able to adapt such as Detroit, Baltimore, Buffalo, cities in northern England and the Ryan Valley in Germany begin to collapse and fall. So here we see pictures of what they look like in 1906 and uh 2015 and some images of Detroit what it looks like today. Robert and Moses and Jane Jacobs, those of you familiar with planning, uh this is a famous David and Goliath battle. And so Robert Moses represents top down interest. Jane Jacobs bottom up. Uh so Jane Jacobs actually Robert Moses uh he's infamous in New York. He developed a lot of the public infrastructure and Rotary systems. He wanted to propose a highway through Jane Jacob's Grenwich Village. She actually fought him and uh basically said no there's a lot of community here. There's a lot of good aspects. Uh and at the time they did not take her seriously. They did not say you what do you know? you're just a member of the community. I Robert Moses am the expert. But what plan what happens during this time during planning is that there begins to become a paradigm shift in that they know that there is knowledge of community members and eventually she is proven right in all of her points. They begin to see that these communities that have the mix of uses that are walkable that have all of these integrated systems are actually very very beneficial. And so she wins. During this time, the age of environmentalism also happens. Uh so as the Kahunga River catches fire in Cleveland, not the first time, but the most prevalent time in 1969, a river catching fire.

That is insane. From 1942 to 1953, a canal was dug called Love Canal. Some of you, this happened in 1978. I don't know, some of you might be familiar with this. Um but that led to the super fund program being created because somebody decided to build a suburban community on top of a landfill. So now we're learning from the mistakes. So again the same patterns the same issues that happened previously are being repeated. So in the 1970s, NEPA has created the National Environmental Protection uh act and as well as the federal water pollution control act amongst many many many many other acts and legislation that happen to protect to clean up our cities and to have it basically what we have today. Explosive growth happens throughout the world during this time. So a lot of cities, a lot of slums are created. Again, the same issues that happened in the first and second industrial revolution. Now in other cities because of the mass migration, because of the attraction, because of the appeal of living in cities, the upward mobility that is provided by cities, people are literally willing to risk everything to have that chance to move to these cities. Different governments respond in different ways. In Beijing, they knock them down. the the Hutons uh to build today modern luxury living. Other places such as Latin America try to incorporate these into the urban fabric and are trying to formalize them. So such as in Brazil the fllas are being uh now there's programs or in Colombia there's programs to try to incorporate a lot of these communities into the urban fabric. Now this is this appealing to you? Does this look inviting? Yeah. What about this? No. Right. What about that?

Can you tell me where that is? No. Would you walk here? Exactly. So if we're answering no to all of this, then why are we still building this when we could be building places like this? So now we're entering the age of modern planning. So we're learning our lessons finally after a couple it took us about a hundred years, but we're learning our lessons. Uh so yeah, this is in the United States. Uh a lot of cities are starting to recognize that there's a lot of capital. It it doesn't have to just be economic capital. It could be social capital. It could be cultural capital. Uh that we can have the foundations in our cities. We if we don't have it, we can create it. We can build it. Uh the main streets in America, they exist. People are starting to reinvest in them. They're starting to build walkable spaces with cafes that people like to go out that are landscaped that you know, it looks like you want to sit there and have a coffee or order some kind of delicious food that you've never tried before. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Or how about going to a public market and getting some kind of unique things? Maybe some uh different type of soap, some, you know, handcrafted chocolates, you know, appealing. And so new urbanism and smart growth begins to take shape. So basically reintroducing a lot of the concept of older cities into our cities and learning that there is actually value in the ways that things have been done before. So hence new urbanism and smart growth focusing on creating vibrant mixeduse development and conserving the resources we have and maximizing the resources we have. So it's a new way of thinking of let's look at what is really out there and let's maximize it because land and everything's a limited resource and we don't want to create the same

mistakes and I promise I will not say the name. So enter the new urbanists. And so Kentland's when it was first made a lot of banks uh said this is not going to work. So there it was this was a very controversial community and development because particularly you're going to integrate different types of housing and different income classes in one development. Nobody's going to want to buy that. But guess what happened? it sold out because people wanted that. They wanted the ability to be able to walk to do their errands down the street, down a block, to be able to have access to parks, to resources, to schools, to housing, to everything, to open space. Same with Seaside, Florida. So, this was another little town that was created. The people that originally bought into the concept made a very good investment because last time I checked, houses here were well over $2 million now. So if you create a product that is actually good, people will buy it because as we have seen in America, there is now a short supply of this. So new urbanism, smart growth. Does that look appealing? Yeah. So, a lot of us were told that because America is the way it is because we were developed around the car. But that's not the case at all. See Canada right here. This is in Toronto and Australia. Well, that's Calgary, but Australia as well as other countries like New Zealand were also primarily founded during times of the automobile. Yet they continue to invest in their urban centers, their downtowns, continue to provide a frame, a framework

of growth that basically preserved a lot of their cities. And so it's not an impossibility. We are now in the age of the fourth industrial revolution which is happening now. Artificial intelligence, big data, robotics and more to come. So this is this is interesting because we are now at an age where people can choose to live anywhere and for a time during COVID people were starting to move to the suburbs but now that CO has receded we are now seeing that people are starting to move back to city centers. So why is that? It's because of the attraction that these places provide. The life, the opportunity, the resources. The concept of the 15-minute city has also arisen during this time. So again, kind of like what Kentlands and Seaside had. The ability for you to be able to walk, to run errands, to do everything within a 15-minute commute or walk from where you live. Wouldn't that be great if you were to within 15 minutes be able to walk to your house if you wanted to or even in a shorter distance be able to bike to your house to run like to have any type of errand from here to your house be done like let's say you needed to pick up something to eat in that time you would be able to do it. You'd be able to do all your errands. So that's what that concept is is to basically have an inviting, safe, well-designed environment for us to have access to everything. And as the world's richest country in the history of time, I don't think that's too much to ask, right? We live in the world's wealthiest economy, but yet we're unable to do this. But other people are doing it. So there is now a movement to try to do this. So that's in Copenhagen. We're also entering into the era of mega

projects. So, a lot of cities, a lot of people are seeing themselves and they're doing they're going the next mile, the mile forward to be number one to provide that quality of life for their residents, for their citizens because they want to be number one and they know they can be number one. So, there we see developments in the United Arab Emirates. There we see Soul which is an entirely new city created uh for um sorry that's a different city in South Korea which is created for the new fourth industrial revolution which focuses on digital technology. Mexico City is down in the corner below. Cairo is creating an entirely new capital which is shown there on the other corner. New cities are being brought forward as leaders. So the Bay Area, Silicon Valley focusing on tech such as Google and Apple, Shenzen, China is starting to arise as a major contender to Silicon Valley. So there is 17.9 billion people, 57 billion GDP with a 5 to 6% growth rate. If they keep that up, they will they will outpace a lot of the urban regions and cities and eventually the Bay Area. Soul, South Korea, 26 million people, one trillion GDP. So a lot of these cities 50 years ago were small fishing villages, small rural towns. Now they are major global developers, contenders because they are adopting, they are choosing to move forward, invest in the right areas. Singapore is a major example of this. There is now 5.8 8 million people in the small what used to be a small fishing village. $756 billion GDP. Major headquarters are located here.

Shanghai, China. 74 741 Baling GDP at also a 5% growth. 39% of the population is long-term migrants from other parts of China. So that's a theme that you're seeing in a lot of these cities that once you become successful, you begin to attract a lot of people that want to come and live there, work there, invest there, build their lives there. Same with Dubai. 202.8 billion GDP at 4 point 4% growth. Only 11% of its population was native Amiradis. At a more local scale, more seeable towards men, we have Riley Durham, which only has 2.1 million people, but it has 183.6 billion uh economy and it is the home of major of three major research institutions. So, the University of North of North Carolina, State University, Duke University, and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And it is part of North Carolina's research triangle. So basically they are focusing a lot on these new sectors that are coming in the fourth industrial revolution. They're setting them themselves up for success. I didn't even know that katum kata nooga chhatt Chattanooga thank you existed until I started looking into this and 580,000 people 40 billion USD but what makes them a standout is that they have a fiber optic grid in their city and it is one of the nation's strongest incubators for small businesses such as 3D printing healthcare smart grid technologies Volkswagen announced plans in 2019 to create an electric vehicles facility there because of the investment that this community has in these new up

andcoming resources. Yay us southwestern Riverside County. So 550,000 people uh we have approximately 230 square miles 27.4 billion. uh and we are comprised of menida lake like also north Kenya lake why can't this be us right so why do we plan what is planning we focus on designing neighborhoods that are safe healthy and enjoyable so as part of the planners planning commissions and private sector and the education sector we are in intermediarities between multiple professions we ensure sure that the public is involved and included in the process and we promote economic development pro for social equity and provide protect sorry the environment while maintaining safety and quality there is different types of planning so I'm not I'm going to pass this but basically rational planning top down you focus on the mathematics satisficing you make the best decision possible incremental planning you take different and small steps to it to achieve this mix scanning. There's different types of planning. So, everybody's going to be a different type of planner and participatory planning which you try to involve the public which this was what Jane Jacobs had argued for advocacy planning which was formulated and Paul David off uh that basically said there's a lot of different communities out there. So we have the disabled community, we have women, we have uh different social classes that we need to be inclusive of them because before people thought that planning was just for one public and we are now learning that there is multiple publics that we need to address and accommodate. Transact transactive planning which is mutual learning, communicative planning

which we bring everybody to the table. So developers, uh elected officials, professional planners and we all come to a solution together. And so again, there's different types of planning and the issue of multiple publics is now a lead issue in that we need to create these frameworks and systems that allow everybody to be included in the process in order to feel included, to be heard. That's what makes successful planning. Does this look appealing to you? Yes. What about this? Yeah, somewhat some of you. Yes, some of them. Okay. Some cities choose are choosing to do this in a larger scale. Some cities are choosing to do development on a smaller scale. Right? So, everybody is everybody's going to have different tastes, different appeals. The main thing we need to take from this is if we do planning, we need to do it right and we need to focus on quality. So there is hope for American cities. So here we see a picture of Denver back in the early 20th century. We do you see how it's filled? There's like a lot of buildings. The downtown is alive. It is active. By 1970, the middle picture there you see is mostly a parking lot. The automobile has taken precedence and it is no longer active. of it is no longer alive. Once the 9 to5 is done, it's empty. But now we see a picture here from 2024 and all of the buildings are starting to return. It's starting to become alive. It's starting to become a livable, walkable downtown center that's alive. And this is what it's looking like

today. So the choice is ours as to what we can do. And there's a lot of issues that are going to go on in terms of public design and transportation which we'll talk we'll touch up on future presentations. Um in the meantime, if you have any questions, if you have any anything that you would like to discuss, uh staff is here to let us know. Uh if there's anything that you need to touch upon or if there's something that you would like to see in future presentations, any particular issues such as public health, let us know and we will address it. But that concludes this presentation and hopefully that was very very brief but hopefully it was very insightful as to the history of all of urban planning.

Thank thank you Fernando. That's like senior planner stuff. Quite interesting. Thank you. Thank you. If you have any comments or questions we could entertain a couple questions. I don't see the applicant for the next item yet. So u he was supposed to be here by 6:40. So, I'm not sure if they're stuck on traffic, but

I got a comment. So, I I've lived I've worked in a lot of big cities and of course live in the suburbs and I see the benefit of a lot of these concepts for the revitalization of downtowns. They work very well. My question is we are mainly a suburb, right? Manifas, right? So, I could see some of these concepts being implemented. Obviously, this is pointing towards the uh zone down offers um innovation

innovation district. Yeah. So, I guess from you and from Orlando, what if you could wave your wand, what level would you bring that to between There was the ultimate dense city examples in here and then there was the suburbs completely. What would your wand do in the innovation district? Do you want to go? I could I could go first. Go.

So um what research and design has shown us and I had mentioned before there is technically no right or no wrong answer in urban planning. there's only going to be positive results and negative results as the type of implementations that you choose. So improvement planning what the general consensus is is developing somewhere between four to eight stories would be ideal because it creates a sense of life. It creates a sense of dynamic uh use that you need as well as that support for the commercial uses that residential component to keep a lot of these commercial uses alive. So if I were to choose, I would say that, but I would also add to it that I would want to see a mix of densities. So to provide choice for people to if they want to live in a town home, they can live in a town home. If they want to live in a high-rise apartment, they can live in a high-rise apartment because it should not be up to me to determine how somebody lives. But it is my job to give them that opportunity should they choose to live in Manif because we want to bring in those people into Meny. want everybody to feel included to spend their money here to continue to invest in our community. So I would say ideally predominantly the most most of the development I would say around that range but also provide a mechanism of providing for that lower density and the potential of that higher intensity.

So that's the housing side though but are you saying most of the innovation district should be housing? No no uh the the intensity of the development. So that would also apply to the commercial development. For commercial development, for sure, I don't think it should be one to two stories because as we're seeing in Meny, we're starting to run out of land. So a lot of it looks like we do have a lot of land, but a lot of that land already has plans or there's ideas for it. So that small amount of land that we have remaining, we need to maximize the utility for it.

I I guess that a couple other comments that I do want to make. I I I think for me it's not about the the type or the intensity, but it's of what elements are we doing or putting it into a a plan that is going to make it successful, right? So, it's probably going to have a variation of a few things and and the intensity or density is going to be different. But more important than that, are we doing the right uh landscaping, the the trails, the walkability, the uh amenities that is going to complement the overall uh concept that we want to accomplish, right? So, it it it's it's a combination of different things. So we shouldn't just be stuck of obviously we're never going to be one of those big cities because obviously that was not the idea of the presentation. It was just more of see how cities have evolved. We will never be one of those cities, right? But the point is how can we position ourselves to make good planning decisions that will put us in a good situations to be able to provide services because as you know if we continue to be a bedroom community we will not be able to pay the bills right. So we have to attract the commercial. We have to develop uh as as we also learned last meeting the the way we develop impacts the way we you know collect taxes and how do we get revenue to the city right so it's a combination of different things

right and then actually that also allows me to put in a little plug for the one of the next presentations which is going to be about uh urban design which Orlando kind of touched up on and the landscaping and how these components of planning affect us. They affect us in our mental health, our social health, our physical health and we don't even know it. So the urban pattern of men is setting us up not for success if we keep this up because it's going to cause detrimental issues for its residents. Another component of this is that if you look at the demographics of Meny, there's actually a dip in the population of young residents. So what's happening is that a lot of the people that are growing up in Manif that are going to school here end up leaving going to universities elsewhere and they end up staying there and moving to other cities and what happens we begin to train all these people, educate all these people and then we're losing all of those resources, all of the things that we put into them and all of that is going to other communities. So that's also another important aspect into creating cities that people want to live in, invest in, stay in. There's a lot of benefits and I don't want to touch up too much on it because I want to save that for the uh the public uh design and that presentation. Uh but uh yeah, I would I would definitely second what Orlando has said. Before we continue with the agenda, probably just one last comment and uh I think the applicant's already here, but um um Brian actually made a good point a few months ago as to how challenging it is for us as staff to go and have lunch at uh Countryside Marketplace, right? Because for us to walk over there, we have to walk to the corner dangerous and then and then you know walk Han and then walk across Newport and then back again Han. So it's it's almost impossible to walk over there and we're not that far away, right? So, what can we do to make it

easy for us to walk over there and have lunch because 80% of the staff drives and it's it's it's something that shouldn't happen.

So, one other comment is well two two comments. I have to disagree with something and that is that well I'll kind of agree in that if you look at the decline of most of these large cities whether it's um Detroit or these others Chicago and things most of those are have to do with the regulatory and social policies of those cities so I agree with a lot of what you said but there was a lot left out in this presentation I think it's important to say that having said that one of the values of men is we have a strong public safety here. I mean, super strong. In fact, when we became a city and the police drove all our streets, people came out of their houses and greeted everybody. So, that is a value. I guess I pissed him off or something. I don't know. So, um, having said that, the last comment would be I see that the parcels between Lowe's and all the way down to Scott Road are kind of stuck. It's a NDC, but they're they're kind of stuck. Um, we've been trying to get a Home Depot, a war a Walmart in there. Nothing's really happened. Um, no, I mean, you can if you have

Well, I I I'll jump in. I mean, I I think there's uh for us, it's what we call our beachfront property, right? So, uh there's there's been uh a lot of discussion with developers that are looking at those properties to doing something unique, right? So,

um I think we're starting to see a lot of interest and we're guiding that interest into creating the right type of development, right? The development that we want to go and spend the entire evening there and not just drive there and come back, right? but where we want to maybe even walk there and and spend, you know, three, four, five hours and then eventually go home, right? So, those are the things that we're talking to developers. There's a lot of good interest and and we've had conversations with multiple people that want to develop there, but it's not that the type of development that we want to bring forward. Right. Well, well, my comment was actually to your point was perhaps we need to because we're looking at the innovation district, right, in a new way, maybe we need to include that part in maybe it's in a second phase in a new way. Um, so and and and I was the most ardent protector of the EDC. You can watch any video you want of a planning commission and I'm that guy. So, but to me it's kind of I'm glad to hear there's developers coming in, but perhaps and the mayor's here, you know, maybe it's time to look at a little different look to the to that area.

Commissioner Tom, you're making a great comment and I think the the discussions we've been having over the last year, year and a half with the innovation district has actually started other discussions outside the innovation district as well. So it will happen I think organically in terms of people wanting to expand uh not necessarily become part of the innovation district but doing things that will complement the innovation district and and and create special special districts. So okay um sure

um thank you for the presentation Fernando was really um quite comprehensive. Um, I want to go back to the malls versus the pedestrian malls. For the pedestrian malls that were built and then torn out, what were the reasons why they were torn out? And then um, a second question is transportation here in Meny like what are we looking toward the future in terms of having a more connectivity besides the automobile?

Yeah. So a lot of the malls entered into well when they were first introduced they most the majority of them were extremely successful. So there was like over 300 malls that were created in the United States during this time. Most of them entered into decline because of several factors. Uh mostly because of what was cited was because of the perception of the lack of parking which actually was not the case. That was more of a psychological issue. So one of the things that was actually studied is that in most cases there was sufficient parking. It's just that the perception and access to parking a lot of residents found to be troublesome. Um the other issue was that eventually some of these entered into decline because of the lack of investment. Um in some cases there would be um unhoused individuals that would move into these spaces and occupy these spaces. So lack of police uh the perception of safety uh was an issue in some of these malls. Uh so that lack of investment in these spaces resulted in them entering into decline. So even in some of these spaces though that had entered into decline. So for example in Riverside uh the main street there actually uh the main street pedestrian mall had been in decline from the 1980s to the 1990s. Even as early as the 2000s as I'm sure some of you remember if you've been to downtown Riverside during that time there wasn't much to do. But as part of the Riverid's renaissance they actually reinvested into that public mall. started up, did a lot of treatments and along with other investment projects, uh, such as the reestablishment of the Fox Theater and such throughout the downtown, helped reinvigorate and bring life to that. And so that helped, uh, basically bring life and investment into the urban core. So it actually wound up being a resource uh, and so long as they reinvested. So basically um the lack of understanding into the implementation of the malls and then the withdrawal of resources of the malls caused a lot of these to decline. And

then to your second question, you know, here uh we're in terms of transportation, we're looking at um enhancing our our trails, our uh our corridors and you know, looking at landscape, looking at I mean we have uh with with the different flood control channels that we have and the different trails that we have a tremendous opportunity to be able to connect, you know, north, south, east, and west. And and I think we have the framework. We just need to improve it and and we're we're looking at, you know, doing studies as to how to enhance those opportunities that we have to make it easy on people to walk and, you know, provide the landscaping, the shading and everything that that's needed, make it safe so people feel comfortable doing that, right? So, um, and again, trying to make everything more compact. So you don't have to drive as much. Chair I I don't I don't see I appre we as commissioners appreciate you make show us part of this process so that we can contribute output but Fernando made a comment about us running out of land. Is is that an accurate comment? What do you mean? Tell me what you mean.

Well I I could probably explain. There's there's there's a lot of property that has been in title

uh over the years and has been developed. So it it does look like we do have a lot of open space, but some of the open space that we have, it's already spoken for, right? So there there's two or three specific plans that uh haven't been developed yet. So uh there's not that much opportunity to do something there, right? We do have a rural a pretty decent sized rural area that it's rural that that could always be redeveloped but we're I think what we're saying is the the opportunities that we have along Han and the 215 freeway and it's limited right and because outside of that we don't have a lot of open uh unentitled property that's that's the extent of the comment

thank you Orlando. Okay. So, plan commissioners, any more questions? Ivan? No. Okay. We'll learn. We'll be looking forward to the next presentation. Thank you, Fernando. When will the new version of the innovation district come out be present? We're probably uh maybe a couple months away. Okay. So that's is that is that still have that deadline you wanted the end of uh 26 was it? No.

Uh it'll probably be extended a little bit. You know, we want to make sure we u you know listen to the comments and do what we need to do on our side and make sure that we cover everything that we need to. Oh, good answer. Okay, I guess we're ready to move on. Okay. going to move on to agenda approval or modifications. Um, madam chair, are there any modifications the agenda? There are none.

Okay. Can I ask planning commission for all in favor to approve the agenda? I I hearing none. The agenda is approved. That takes us to uh item six. Madame clerk, are there any requests to speak on non-aggenda items? We have none. Okay. Okay. So, move on to seven. Um there is one the approval of minutes. There is one set of minutes for the planning commissioner's approval. Does the planning commission have any modifications?

No. None. Could I ask planning commission for an all in favor to approve the August 13th, 2025 minutes? I I I

I none opposed then. Minutes are approved. And now we move we're moving on to the consent calendar. There are no consent calendar items. Number nine, public hearing items. Um before we begin this public hearing, I'd like to briefly explain the procedures. Following the staff presentation and any questions from the commission, I will open the public hearing. The applicant will then have an opportunity to speak followed by members of the audience who wish to address the commission. Each speaker will be given up to three minutes, three unrupted minutes to provide their comments. Please note that the commission will not be able to respond to the comments or questions posed during the public comment portion, but may raise questions or issues with the staff or the applicant after the public hearing is closed. Okay, this takes us to item 9.1, the Meny Wash Bank Express Car Wash. Uh, this is 9.1. Could the community development director please introduce the item?

Chair Madrid, thank you. Um, I don't think Fernando tire, so he's going to continue with the next presentation. And I did uh I did ask him to make it a little bit shorter than the other one. So, I think we're good. We appreciate that.

Well, well, well. It is I again. Uh so this is for a washbank express car wash plat PLN22-0261. The project location is off of Han Road just north of City Hall and Newport Road. The project proposes the establishment of a mixeduse two-story building which is going to consist of a 4789 foot car wash and a 4,160 foot office space on top of the car wash. The general plan designation for the property is specific plan and the zoning designation for the property is a specific plan and more specifically Newport Hub specific plan. The site plan laid out here is going to have one point of access uh from on road. 25 auto spaces were required for the use but the applicant and team are going to provide three 33 spaces two of which will be ADA and two of which will be EV charging spaces. The landscaping plan shown here um is in compliance with all of the landscaping requirements for the zoning code and specific plan. We have here the architecture of the building and what it's going to look like. So the side facing Han Road and the side that's going to face Interstate 215. Public notices were published in the press enterprise on August 11th for today's meeting and all relevant public agencies including interesting parties were noticed within a 500 foot radius and that's only because to increase the requirement of the 25 unique property owners on-site posting was also provided. It was determined that the project is going to be class 32 exempt uh the infill exception per sequa and it is staff's recommendation that the the planning commission determined that the project is exempt from uh squa pursuant to section 15332

infill development and direct staff to file a notice of exemption and adopt a resolution approving PL plan PLN22-0261. This concludes staff's presentation. Wow, you did short, but you got everything in there. Thank you, Fernando. Does uh planning commission have any questions for staff? No, no discussion, just questions. Okay. Uh Tammy

um how many office spaces will be made available for this project? Four office spaces. And um with regard to the circulation, can you explain the circulation please?

Yeah, if if we could. Oh, actually I can let me take us to that slide. Um so access is going to be provided by Han Road. Um here we see that on the parking lot that's to the south. Um that's going to be a point of two-way access. The rest of the circulation on site is going to be one way. So they'll enter off of Han Road and then turn right and go up. So they can either turn to park in the office parking spaces or they could go up to the car wash. Once they've completed going through the car wash, they'll exit uh towards that pointed end um and then go through the vacuum stalls. And so once they're done vacuuming, they would exit right off of Han.

Thank you. Question. How many square feet is each of those individual offices? Um the total square footage of the office spaces is individually individually. Let's see. It's going to be they're roughly a thousand thousand square feet. I think if I remember from the presentation we did on this the workshop, isn't the car wash going to be using one or two of those offices or No,

there's an office located down below for the car wash itself. So, the four offices um would be for other users. Michael, good for now. Okay. See, being there's no more questions, no further questions from the planning commission, I'll open up the public hearing at 7:12 p.m. Madame Clerk, can you confirm that the item was legally noticed and if any correspondence has been received? It was, and no correspondence was received. Thank you. Um, at this time I'd like to invite the applicant to the podium to speak.

Oh, yeah. Right. Welcome. Please uh please state your name. Oh. Uh this is them from JAR Architects. I'm uh here behalf of my principal. Uh unfortunately my principal wasn't able to make it because he has a funeral. So please do understand and also our client supposed to be here but I can't get hold of him right now. So please do understand that I can can you answer for him that you accept the conditions of approval? Yes, I accept uh I have authorizations. All right. Thank you.

So tell us about your project. Okay. So this is a car wash uh project. Uh on the ground floor it'll be office with for the car wash and upper floor it'll be uh four uh office uh rooms I guess office four offices on the second floor and you can uh we are anticipating 200 cars going through the cars every day and we have uh about 33 uh parking lots and uh 27 uh vacuum machine for the car wash. Great. Okay, I got a question for him. Okay, Chris, someone else already have a question. Go ahead. Yeah.

So, I I do have a couple of questions. I'm not sure. I'll I'll ask and if you can answer them, uh, great.

Could you go back to the slide with the elevations? So when I was when I was looking at this originally, the west elevation that you see in the slide on the left, it I found that I I would be uh see how do I want to put this there? There's not a lot of architectural detailing on that elevation. When I when I saw it, uh it it looked to me honestly like a little like a Motel 6. And I'm I'm just curious is there a reason why looks like you just didn't complete the detailing on that west elevation. Is there can you speak to that at all or is that a client decision or trying to throw you a lifeline?

Okay, I'll try my best to explain. Uh so originally the client wanted to just have their car wash but uh city of manifi uh introduced to have offices so that's why we have second building on uh upper floor and according to uh working together with the city uh they wanted some corridor on uh second floor at the facing the parking lot. So, we made some rhythm to the um walkway and we followed that uh opening down to the ground floor. So, that's what we did on the that facade. I would I would like to see a little bit more detailing there. I do realize, however, that this sits back at the at the, you know, eastern end of the lot, so it doesn't front directly on the street. I'd have a more comments if it fronted directly on the street, but but I certainly would like to see some increased detailing there. I the use is a little bit unusual or the combination with office and and the drive-thru tunnel underneath for the car wash. Did you guys uh consider in your uh plans isolation from noise and vibration if you're from the car wash, if you're in the offices above? Uh, I heard there's a a study for the noise, but I'm not aware of the result to be honest.

And any anything to isolate vibrations from the equipment running in the tunnel? I'm pretty sure they will be considered during the structure coordination, which that hasn't been there yet. And I I see that you've got covered parking spaces where uh uh folks would go to drive their cars. It I don't see that there's photovotayic panels on the top of that. It looks to me just like a missed opportunity to maybe take advantage of the fact that you're covering those and to cover them with PVs.

Can you speak to that at all? To be honest, I think that's a great opportunity and I agree to it. Uh I think we have brought the issue to uh our client and our client didn't really buy that option. So I think uh I'll leave it up to our client if I can handle I understand. I my intent was not to put you in an awkward situation. I just those are the questions that I have. At some point, Mr. Chair, I'd like to return and ask staff a couple of questions, but I'll wait for my colleagues to ask theirs. Well, we'll speak to staff after. Yeah. Okay. Chris

on the second floor is open. you know, the the client did himself or applicant did himself a disservice because it's not fair to you to answer questions that you are awkward answering. I mean, you're fine, but I mean, I have a question I'll ask because I won't ask because he's not here. Uh, I'm sorry this happened, but No, no, it's Yeah, it's he he shouldn't I mean I don't I how have you have you designed many of these for this client? Um myself, no, but my principal I believe you did.

Yeah. See, that's like the question because this this doesn't look like a good location. That's none of my business, but it doesn't look like a good location for this this kind of a car wash. But um I just wanted to ask you so Michael.

So thinking Tammy, you know, you all have been asking questions that I've also been wondering about. So I really appreciate you um asking the questions. Um my all my another concern that I have is the circulation. Um because where the parking lot is, it's a it's two-way and I'm afraid that people might want to exit where the car wash line is at. That's one of my concerns. Um I'm not sure if anybody else has that concern. Um

and this is a 23 vacuums. Uh and and Tommy's is 12 similar product down the street. So um can I get the papers? just to clarify. Sure. So, just to give you a comparison between what that's the one that's across the street from the full car full serve car wash at 23. Just to give you a history on no street traffic,

the history on this, we had a workshop. Were you guys here? Any of you here during that workshop? So, wasn't thrilled about being this in there, but it it isn't allowed use in this specific plan. That's why it's slipping in. Commissioner Tom, if if I can add to that, um, for the benefit of the commission, uh, the the site is located in a specific plan. Uh, typically, uh, car washes outside of a specific plan in general, commercial or business park usually require a conditional use permit, which allows the commission a little more discretion. Uh, the specific plan uh, allows car washes by right. So um obviously they what's before you it's a plot plan application because obviously the the site is vacant and what you're reviewing is the architecture. So your comments to the architecture are are uh are adequate and and and and uh valid. So uh in regards to the use staff had initially the same concerns. Obviously this is a lot that it's adjacent to the freeway. It's highly visible. So the initial submitt uh the architecture was not to the standard of what we normally bring to the commission and we were having uh difficulties working with the applicant. So we did advise the applicant to do a workshop with the commission which which we did and the commission directed the uh the applicant to obviously work with us because the the initial proposal was not up to par. So, uh, what you see today is a significant improvement to what was originally provided. And I think to your comment, Commissioner Holler, I think we did hit the mark along the freeway because the intent was to make it look like an

office building and you see all the glazing and and I and I think that was the original intent and I and I think that's what we wanted to accomplish. uh on the back side to your comment um the maybe the architectural uh it's not at the same level uh and we did work with them to improve it as well but since it's not highly visible from the freeway we did not uh require the same uh level of architecture as we did on the freeway side

so and I appreciate that I didn't have a concern with the uh the eastern elevation that that fronts along Interstate 215. My concern was with the western elevation. So I mean and and you've heard me articulate them, right? So I don't I don't recall the findings that have to be made on this with respect to, you know, how it fits in as a part of the community given that it's there's not a use permit with it. I don't have those in front of me right now. Uh but I I mean I do have those concerns. the PV seemed just like a missed opportunity. The noise and vibration in the building, it's a unusual combination of you don't normally see office space on top of the tunnel. So I again I I don't know what transpired earlier in the workshop and maybe you can help me understand uh maybe you can just help me understand the findings with respect to the issues that I brought up.

You you are raising valid comments. Uh we did we did verify with uh building and safety and there are uh um certain things that can be done obviously to uh making sure that the noise does not uh affect the second story. So uh from a structure standpoint also from an insulation standpoint. So there's different things. Also the car wash equipment now it's it's it's significantly different than it was you know 10 15 years ago. So, uh, obviously they they're comfortable that we're not going to have an impact in terms of making sure that the offices will be utilized and and and they're not going to be a noise issue.

Yes, I find myself in just a little bit of a difficult situation because I don't I don't know some of the answers to the questions that I have asked and I I'm not again I don't mean to put you on the spot. So, I I I just in some cases don't know. Well, we'll come back to you. We're not talking to staff right now, right? So, we'll come back. You ready, Michael? Yeah. You're the architect, right? Um I'm designer.

He's the designer. Um I don't know if if it's on No, it's not up there. Piggy back off of uh Ivan's uh what was that? Western elevation, the five openings, have you considered enclosing those in glass so that they're not open? All of them? Yeah, all of them. So that it so that it almost mirrors the elevation on the 215 side. Uh since it's uh part of uh equipment room, we some we need some kind of enclosure on the ground floor. So I'm talking the second level.

Oh, second level. And we for the second level, we just bring in the rhythm of the ground floor to the second level to have the some uniformity as a whole building. That's our my understanding for the design. But in terms of having all glazing, uh we haven't thought about it. I think

if I can if I can intercept. Um so that was an issue that was brought up to the applicants team um during uh the meeting that we had with the planning commission. Um the applicants team did mention that there if we did provide um glass coverage in those openings there would be issues in terms of ventilation and the heat um especially during summer because it would essentially turn it into a greenhouse effect. So that hallway would be uh unbearably hot. Um so that's why it was left open. Thank you. Do we have any further questions for the applicant commissioners?

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. And uh thank you for understanding. Oh yeah. Good job, Madame Clerk. Are there any requests to speak or would anyone in the audience like to make a comment? We do not.

Wow. Okay. Okay. Then I will close the public hearing at 7:27 p.m. Okay. Planning commissioners, any questions or comments for staff? So I I did just go through finding one um CD3.14 and as I read through it uh that that section references providing variations in color texture materials articulation architectural treatments avoiding long expanses of blank monotonous walls or fences. It's It's a little difficult, but I I can perhaps see how to get from here to there. Uh not I don't think the ideal for that, but I I I think maybe I can see how to get through this finding. Commissioner Holler, one one option could be that if if it's the commission's uh uh desire and and and and we have consensus that uh part of your motion, if you support the project, is to uh ask the ABLE to continue to work with staff to improve the west elevation uh more in line with some of the comments that you can provide today. I actually would like to that. I don't know if my colleagues would be inclined, but I would actually like to do that and at an appropriate time I'd be happy to introduce a motion to do that.

Well, just to I mean obviously it's going to bring additional cost, but I we'll give a little history on this. Next door is the car repair company. They wanted to put open bays all along the west side and facing the freeway and we wouldn't let them. They had to move their bays around and we had them put trees. So, we held them up to a higher standard of aesthetics and and elevations and things as well. I guess I don't see why we wouldn't hold this one up to the same level. And they had to make significant redesign on their on their how the movement goes inside the car repair building because we did that. So, as far as the greenhouse effect, you have other buildings around the glass as well. He just is going to have to air condition it. That's it. What's it boils down to? So, if he doesn't want I I can understand if he doesn't want to have the expense of glazing and closing it. Maybe there's some other material he can put on it or something. I don't

Well, I you want me to go ahead or go ahead. Okay. You got momentum.

I What? Here's what I'd like to ask. And Uh, Madam City Attorney, I just make sure you keep me, you know, out of the the wrong places here. Um, I I I would like to uh uh move that the uh to direct staff to work a little further with the applicant to see if we can better articulate the the especially the west elevation and and at least consider uh PVs on top of the on top of the canopy. And and I and I'll leave it at that. It's not, at least my intent in making this to, you know, have the applicant spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's not it at all. I just like it to look a little bit better and and more fitting with this area of the use. I understand. I'm not taking issue with the with the use at all, but so that would be my motion.

Is that Yes. So you you can make a motion to continue this item say in two meetings uh in order for staff to further you know consider this item. Before we do that I have a question. Yes. [Music] So let me let me just put a time. Yeah. Are we doing approval with work with staff or are we doing continuence? Well that's up to you. Are you looking to approve this? Is your motion to approve this item with further My motion would be to continue the item. Uh is is two meetings enough time? And then then that would be my motion.

Before you make a motion, I have a question. So Orlando, did they do we had the workshop and they did revisions with you and they brought them to this point. are you and you recommended for approval. You've already been through so we're giving we're aly anyway I just want you to take that into consideration and there there's there's opportunities to improve the west elevation uh obviously there was push back from the applicant but um we can have those discussions and and and come back if that's the commission's preference. So that would be consistent with what we promised them.

Sorry. Uh just want to clarify there are no promises from staff regarding this item. The applicant does submit an application for staff's review and comments. And of course like all developers, the city staff works with the applicant to create the best product possible to bring forth before this commission. And it is of course your jurisdiction and authority to approve or deny a project based on necessary legal findings. Strike that word promise to agree. Thank you. Thank you.

Can I add one thing to Ivan's motion? Um since we're going to since you guys are going to look at the design, um maybe you consider adding another color in there as it does with the white. I know you got color on the glazing on the glaze work, but that dark gray and the white, I think it would I know this is just opinion of mine, but it might pop a little bit more with another shade of something in there. Um, I like the the 215 side. Um, I like how it kind of flows in with our other medical buildings. Um, you know, block away, but I think it just needs something. And I don't know. I mean, I'm looking at a drawing right here. It's I know it's not official, but maybe an additional color added to that the existing drawing.

Okay. May I add something? Oh, yes, of course. um for the the parking lot without the vacuums. If we could continue the arrows so that way people know that because I'm just afraid someone's going to try to come out the other way. I don't know. And we'll make sure there's adequate signage and striping. Yeah. Oh, and one more question. Did staff propose um or have that discussion with the the applicant about solar panels on top of and no

no not to my knowledge I don't think we have we had those discussions okay

it's also not a code requirement it is obviously good location to provide them and uh if if they choose to go that route. Yeah. So, may I suggest that uh for the motion that it be a motion to continue this item until uh the September 24th planning commission meeting in order for staff to discuss uh three topics including the color uh of the building, the um siding, right? The west elevation as well as adequate signage for safety for additional safety purposes. the solar

as well as solar panels. Uh staff will discuss those items and bring back um the whatever amended or updated staff report for that September 24th meeting. I'm fine with that. So, do we have a first? We're going to vote. We take that. I got a different screen up here. Do There we go. I believe you can do the electronic first and second, correct? Thank you. I was actually reading the findings.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, that's done. So, thank you very much. We'll uh see you next time. Okay. So, um item 10, discussion items. There are no discussion items. 11, community development director comments. Community development director, do you have any updates or comments?

No comments today. Thank you. Thank you, Orlando. Orlando, I got um I received uh communication this morning from a um a resident. Um it's been almost a year since anything has been mentioned about ambient ambient communities. Is anything Cherry Hills Cherry Hills the golf course property? Yeah. No, we haven't had any uh discussions uh with the uh property owner. Um so they haven't reached out to us. So they're they're probably still trying to figure out how they want to move forward. Yeah. The last meetings they had with the community were in November of last year.

Yeah. No silent since then. Yeah. No no updates at the moment. Who who's mowing the lawn or the weeds and weeding and they are doing that? They are the buyer. The buyer. Okay. Unless they're getting citations, hopefully they aren't. Okay. Number 12, commissioner reports on committee activities. Michael, I got I only got one. Um on the 18th, I uh attended um the Veterans and Military Families Advisory Committee and uh that was pretty interesting. So that's all I got.

Yeah. Okay. Number 13, future agenda requests from planning commissioners. Would the planning commission like to request any future agenda items? Okay. Number 14. I'll be adjourn this meeting at 7:38 p.m. Wow.