Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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[Music] Hey, hey, hey. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our July 9th planning commission meeting. Um, okay. I call this meeting to order at 6 pm. Madam clerk, can you please call roll? Commissioner Nighton, here. Commissioner Ramirez here. Commissioner Thomas here. Vice Chair Holler here. Chair Madrid here. Cassen looks like you might want to lead us in the pledge of allegiance. Please stand

also. Okay. So, there are no presentations. Uh, are there any modifications to the agenda? There are none. Okay. Uh, can I ask the planning commission for an all in favor to approve the agenda? I I Any opposed? Hearing none. The agenda is approved. Uh, madame clerk, are there any requests to speak on non-aggenda items? I do have two requests to speak. First I have Felix Gonzalez followed by Bernard Truix. Okay. So this is the time for members of the public to address the commission about items which are not listed on the agenda. The Ralph M. Act Brown Act limits the commission's ability to respond to your comments or non-aggenda matters at this time such comments are made. Each speaker will be limited to three minutes on any single item. Thank you sir. My name is Felix Gonzalez. I'm referring to the north uh part of Valley Boulevard just past McCall. Engineers came through, put a pipeline in there, widen the roads, cut a beautiful 2:1 slope on it as required by the state of California and uh people in Manif used to dirt roads. So they drove through there until the city closed it off. Once the city closed it off, they made it a perfect hideway for people to start throwing trash and dumping there. And uh now it's

getting out that you could come to Meny and dump your trash for free. So I'm asking the city what my father said to me. You made the mess, you clean it up. You could put $100 stop sign on the corner of McCall and Open Valley Boulevard. It's going to have to be opened eventually. You got 1,500 houses coming up at the end of Cherry Hill. You got a school coming up on the corner there. I was an operating engineer. I retired after 35 years. I built the I-15. I worked on a 6215. I worked on plenty of highways, subways, so on and so forth. you know, even the Alama corridor in Long Beach and um I noticed when they close off a road, people take advantage and start dumping trash there. Now, if you could, I'd like you folks to take a look at it and um you know, evaluate the situation. If it was up to me, I'd put a stop sign at the end of Macall and Open Valley Boulevard. People in men in uh Meny are used to driving on dirt roads. There's thousands of dirt roads out here in Meny. They're not afraid of them. Okay. Anyways, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for your feedback. Appreciate it. Bernard Chewix. Good evening, commissioners, staff, public. My name is Bernard El Trux and I am a developer and a real estate

company here in the valley and have been for 40ome years. Mr. Trux, Mr. Trux, if I can interrupt real quick. I believe your your comment it's related to the discussion item we have today. Is that correct? Actually, it is about your Meny Innovation District and generally the future of Meny and the great job you guys are already doing that we hope continues. So I see that I got the chance to talk before I got to see what in detail what you had and are talking about in the district but I wanted to let you know who we are and our interest in benefit. I've already acquired 32 acres on Han Road at the intersection of Han and Holland. I've made offers on two other pieces that are north of that that would take the land contiguous down to Lowe's Theater. We've been in some discussions with Orlando and staff on planning and ideas for that, but our interest is much greater than just that piece. We also have taken a look and have made offers andor are talking to land owners all the way down on to where your innovation district is which I believe is a great idea and a great side of that. We see my company and my investors see Meny as the last good opportunity to finish the valley which has been growing for the last 30 40 years. My company's been involved in Tmacula, in Oldtown, in Myrietta, projects along the freeway. I've built projects in Lake Elsenor. Uh we are now starting to look at Meny and uh we believe that the future of Meny is in

your hands. You got the opportunity now to finish it correctly because it got a great start. You got the homes, you got the roads, you got the interstate. Now you got to finish with something special. And the innovation district could be that. And some of the ideas that we're sharing with Orlando about an opportunity to bring the performing arts, a downtown area started from scratch, um, and other developments that we've got unplanned. So I wanted to compliment you on the work to date. tell you we see the city as a great place and a part we want to be a part of it. That's it. Thank you for your attention. Thank you, Mr. Trex. Chair, I have no other requests to speak. Thank Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, there is one set of minutes for the planning commission's approval. Does the planning commission have any modifications? No. Okay, Chris. Nothing. Okay. Could I ask the planning commission for an all in favor to approve the June 11th, 2025 minutes? I. Yes. Any opposed? Hearing none. The minutes are approved. There are no consent calendar items. There are no public hearing items. Which brings us to the main event. Item 10.1, the Manify Innovation Innovation District Spacific Plan Workshop. Could the community development director please introduce this matter? Not acting but director. Sher Madre, thank you. Um the item as you know we we uh attempted to provide a presentation over a month ago and that was a really long long meeting so we didn't have adequate time to have a

discussion. And so we're back and uh we did uh invite our uh consultant that is helping us through this process. Uh his name his name is Jeff Husia with brick engineering. He'll be doing the presentation today. But uh just to let you know obviously um we're um probably half halfway done to the process. We started about a year ago. We still have probably another year to go. Um, and just for uh the commission's information today, you're not uh taking any action in terms of approving anything. This is this is just a recommendation uh uh between commission and council to hopefully give us the green light to continue and actually develop the specific plan if the commission and council are in support of the proposed land use plan. So, uh, this is a big milestone that, uh, would, uh, take us to the finish line. So, with that, I do want to, uh, invite Jeff to, uh, give us a presentation if it can help us out. Awesome. Good, good evening. Thank you, Orlando. Good evening, Chair Madrid and the rest of the commission. Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. uh couple good intros from the audience as well. So that's that's great. Um you know I so my name is Jeff Hosea. I'm the director of design with Rick Engineering uh and I lead our part of our planning and urban design team. So I'll walk through about a 20-minut presentation here and then highlighting some of the innovation district and then have lots of time for uh followup and discussion. work two machines here. Um, so the city of Meny, as has been stated already, is really positioned to become a model for purposeful growth and regional economic development. Among many exciting

projects citywide, none better represents that that vision than the Meny Innovation District. So, we know Meny is one of California's fastest growing cities and it's shaped its identity through strategic planning, targeted investments, and a commitment to live livability. The district not only in is envisioned as a major southern gateway into the city, but it's the foundation of Meny's long-term economic strategy. So, I'd like to play a video that the city staff put together about the innovation district. To establish something special, something truly different takes time and a lot of planning and collaboration. We all play a vital role in its development. The Meny Innovation District will be the first of its kind in Riverside County. Located in the Meny Valley, the city seeks to leverage its central location between two major metropolitan areas to attract new business and investment. Manify Innovation District will be a vibrant innovation hub that attracts high-tech businesses and features mixeduse options. The district will create a dynamic environment that creates high-paying jobs and includes a range of entrepreneurial opportunities with incubator spaces, executive suites, and research and development labs. The Menifee Innovation District will create the framework to create new businesses from biotech corporations, medical providers, manufacturers, and research establishments and financial institutions. The district will be walkable with ample landscaping and green belts that connect all of the uses. The innovation district will be a vibrant job center that continues to have life after typical work hours, allowing innovation through culinary arts and entertainment. Residents will

have a variety of housing choices, including apartment living to town homes to mixeduse development, where people can live upstairs and go downstairs to eat, shop, and run errands. Walkability will be paramount in the design with easy access to jobs, groceries, and entertainment close by. For all other uses, an enhanced public transit network will link the cores of Meny with the greater region. The creation of the Meny Innovation District will be a step towards the future, a new, better, and best future for generations to come. Pretty good. So, if we could go back to the slides. There we go. And I'll go on back. Um, so I want to thank staff for putting that together. Uh, that was it's a great video and as you can see the innovation district is more than just a land plan. It's really a bold step and this is a bold step for men's future. It's a bold step towards addressing really four key issues. Attracting high wage industries, reducing the outbound commute, reducing job leakage that goes to San Diego and Orange County companies today. and then growing Meny's tax base. It's as much an economic development plan as it is a land use plan. And so with proximity to the city's expanding medical services corridor, LMA Linda and the and the rest up and down the the corridor there, uh this district is really positioned to become a living lab where private sector academic partners and entrepreneurs can collaborate in real time. As Orlando said, we're about halfway through the process in general. Over the past year, we've led the a collaborative

planning process informed by your input, city council guidance, staff expertise, and a lot of commit community participation. Tonight, we'll share more about the preferred land use plan and the and that is the basis then of our specific plan as we write the policies moving forward. Over the next several months, we'll we'll craft those policies and strategies with your input and working in partnership with the staff. and then come back to you in the future with a specific plan, the AIR and so forth for your further review. So from our very first public workshop a year ago, a few themes have guided our work pretty consistently. Uh creating a distinct identity, focus on tech and research, support a diverse, resilient local economy, and promote a vibrant mixeduse environment. This is a quick reminder of the vision statement that was adopted last December in a joint planning commission city council workshop. I don't need to read it word for word, but uh this has been our northstar as we continue to think about the design of the district. Earlier this spring, we conducted a hands-on design chet where we discussed land use frameworks and heard several of the challenges the developers are facing in Meny and Riverside County in general. a second public workshop at the end of March. We introduced three uh development scenarios. Each of those scenarios then had different amounts of land uses from employment to residential. All all with the hopes of creating a 247 community. We discussed those potentials and and the buildout scenarios and got great feedback from the audience. We introduced uh virtual reality into the into the mix too. So observers and participants could have this immersive environment provided to get a sense of the scale of the district. And it's from those conversations that we've now created the preferred land use plan that we'll talk about tonight.

So I'm sure you all know where it is. Obviously from the video you just saw it as well uh highlighted here in orange. It's 375 acres uh and it is the southern gateway into Meny along 215. Obviously to the south and the east is the city of Myrietta and to the west and north is Meny. The innovation district is a mile long north to south. So it's a big piece of property stretching from Keller Road at the south to Scott 215 intersection at the northeast corner and then Howard Road and Nancy Lane make up the western boundary. While there was no single favored uh scenario from workshop number two, three key ideas really have have come to the forefront that we'll go over here really quickly. First, three large innovation and tech corporate campuses were to be part of the plan supported by maker spaces and higher density residential. We heard strong support for the need to include spaces to support the future of healthcare startups and corporate offices that create the job growth that Meny is looking for. Second, there was strong support for creating a walkable core with hotels, restaurants, and a food hall. The prioritization of pedestrian connectivity, bike lanes, and access to public transit were also important. And then third, the parks and open space um system used for recreation, storm water, and connectivity were all critical for almost everyone in the workshop. We heard about the importance of implementing greenways, pocket parks, and multi-use trails throughout the plan. So, our preferred plan incorporates those ideas while also addressing core city needs laid out in the general plan as key economic development goals. Again, it's a kind of a repetitive message, but it's increasing the number of above paying jobs, ensure a range of

employment opportunities, improve the quality of life, and expand the diversity of the local tax base. All of this combines to create what the plan is all about. Our consensus concept is also driven by four foundational principles. Employment is priority number one. Manify's agricultural identity can persist where appropriate, acknowledging there's already an evolution of uses happening in the area. Open spaces drive mobility and ecological health and connecting the experiences across the district and then introducing housing diversity that complements rather than competes with the existing neighborhoods of Manafy. So let's step back and look at the big picture again. Here's our innovation district. Uh the area lies within the city's economic development corridor. It's the southern gateway to the city. And quoting from that corridor plan, the economic development corridor designation is intended to provide economic vitality and flexibility in land use options to promote economic development along the city's major corridors, namely I215. It is intended that the majority of the city's new development will be located in these areas to promote infill and preserve the rural areas that are integral part of Menafy's community character. So here's our preferred plan as it's laid out today. This is what we're here to get a recommendation on is really the land uses that we're talking about. Uh so roughly we've got about four million square feet of R&D, class A office, and innovation space. Just for reference, the city currently has about 376,000 square feet of total office space. We've got uh 3100 new residential units. These are for sale for rent. Uh apartments, condos, town homes, or row homes.

Really, no single family homes like you see throughout the rest of of Manif. And then we've got neighborhoods serving retail and restaurants with visitor and employment serving hotels and conference spaces. At full buildout, which could be 20 to 25 years or more, uh this district could support about 8,000 jobs and about 8,000 residents. So, we'll highlight the three uh class A employment campuses first, starting with the Northeast Innovation Campus there. So this north this northeast campus is about 1.2 million square feet. Sits along I215 for maximum visibility. The design standards can be written to allow anywhere from four to 10 story buildings or more if we decide to make it more. Um but that that number will then be set and determined by demand developers in the market as they see fit. So, it's adjacent to existing retail and then we would look to add more retail and a hotel within walking distance. This 12 acres right here could be the catalyst for the rest of the district. So, as we look at the central campus in the middle, that's about 650,000 square feet. And then the southeast campus is another million square feet um embedded in the habitat corridor there. So these campuses reflect proven precedence from San Diego, Silicon Valley and other innovation districts around the around the country. Uh it's their flexibility, visibility and adjacency to amenities that are really uh desirable for Anchor employers. Sorry, I was going backwards, wasn't it? There we go. Um, supporting the innovation ecosystem are smaller

offices, too. It's not just all the corporate campuses. True innovation districts thrive not just on the anchors, but on an entire ecosystem. These include startups, incubators, lab spaces, maker spaces, and co-working hubs. Smaller startups are usually found in buildings like these where they share spaces and share amenities. and it's simply more affordable for them. I want to touch on a uh case study from UCSD North Tory Pines. This is the living and learning neighborhood. Um this is an award-winning innovation district that was added to UCSD not too long ago. Um and it's become an economic research force in the region. There's an annual economic impact of about 16.5 billion dollars a year. So this seven building 1.6 6 million square feet of office and research space occupies roughly the same acreage as our northeast campus that I just highlighted a minute ago. The North Tory Pines uh neighborhood is highly walkable at just three city blocks wide and and successful because of its compact form. Within the district, residential buildings provide needed and diverse housing options, all organized around indoor and outdoor common areas that foster the social interaction and collaboration that innovation districts are shooting for. The third tier of employment opportunity and that we're including in the innovation district is neighborhood retail. It's the intention of the specific plan to create spaces for locally owned businesses and restaurants throughout the entire district. So, why is all this needed here? What is the real punchline? It's because Meny is already home to the workforce. It lacks the office and above average paying jobs, though. Over 40,000 residents leave the city daily to work in San Diego, Orange County, or the Inland

Empire. That's a massive leakage of talent and tax revenue that's simply not economically viable for the future of Meny. In addition to the need for employment, one of the most consistent public comments we've heard so far throughout our workshops is the need for more housing variety throughout the city. So in the innovation district here, we've included walkable amenity rich residential types such that would are suitable for young professionals, retirees, and employees who simply want to work close to the where they work. We know retail and housing together enable great placemaking and a vibrant mix of that locally owned restaurants, markets, and third spaces will strengthen the district's character. And then the last element here is our open space system. It's equally essential to the overall plan. North to south and east to west greenways create a connected public realm. Storm water infrastructure doubles as habitat and recreation space. Pocket parks, trails, and plazas bring the daily life outdoors. Nearly a third of our district is devoted to parks and open space. And that's accomplished by uh creating the higher density uh pockets of development and the height that we did in in those more compact areas. And so to manage such a large district and and diverse area, we're dividing the innovation district into four subdists. Um each will come with tailored development standards and land uses defined FS heights densities and open space ratios and design guidance that promotes consistency yet long-term flexibility. So this is how we keep the residential where we want to keep the residential. We keep the employment where we want to keep the employment and we allow the mix of uses to flow between the two. Um, and like I said earlier, this is a phase development strategy

probably over the next 20 to 25 to potentially 40 years to build this district out. So, this is a long-term bold step for the city. I wanted to close with an anecdotal case study as well. So, this is the main park at an innovation district called the 195 district in Providence, Rhode Island. Uh the district currently has about 14 projects uh with 2.1 million square feet of development and about $830 million of investment have been put in by the private sector so far. The unique thing about this district is they didn't actually start with the building projects. They came out with the motto of lead lead with space not steel. And so what they did through a series of public funding, grants, public art, and programming is they created this great park and the incubator spaces within the park have now become permanent residents within the rest of the district and permanent um jobs and everything within the rest of the district. So I stumbled upon this park uh a couple summers ago while I was traveling through the East Coast because there was an art festival happening. And as I got there and I'm looking around, I'm like, "This is an amazing place." And so I did a little research to figure out where I was and and found out that it's an innovation district in itself. So like I said, this specific plan is much more than a land use plan. It's really a tool that's going to help shape Man's economic future while preserving the values that really make the city unique. So with that, I want to open it up for questions, comments, everything in between. Jeff, good job. What What's a row house? A rowhouse, uh, similar to a town home where where they're mostly vertical, two to three stories, skinny, so you you can put groups of six to eight together.

A square foot it can be anywhere from 1,200 to 1,800 generally. That's for rent or uh generally those are for sale. Row homes are generally for sale. How many homes in innovation district are going to be for sale? Uh we haven't determined that yet. So really like a ratio like um I would shoot for about half. I'm not sure um to be honest with you. That's going to take a little bit more of an economic study to figure that out. But my gut tells me about half because you want you want to attract people that can rent as well, but you also want to attract a stable population that make the community their own. There's room for change. Yeah, for sure. To tag on to that, as far as the rental market goes on the multif family, would you be is it in the plan to have a lower, mid, or higher income apartment? I believe different amenities. You can go get a super expensive apartment in downtown LA that you know, five grand a month, four grand a month. I mean, it's Yeah. Or you can get the the subsidized or maybe eight grand a month. I don't know. There's some really big projects. I I haven't rented apartment a while, but I know there's some luxury apartments, you know, right? And then there's mid-range and then there's subsidized or lower income. What what what fits in this model? I within most innovation districts you find the the full gamut of housing and that's part of the the idea of bringing a lot of people together from diverse backgrounds because you want people to live there and work there. That's the goal. We know that really 10% probably will both live and work there. Um it's generally a pretty low number. It's lower than anybody would hope for, but once it gets going that number starts to go up over time. Um, but you with that you have all types of employment that

are needed in the district. And so you want people that are renting lower income and renting higher income as well. And did you have any more questions? Yeah. No, I was just curious. So on the uh what what is the higher level? Is it is it what's the max on the highrise? A max on the highrise? So what's what's the idea on the number height wise? No, not not height not a number like two four story six story. Yeah. So so what we've designed is I I've laid out uh most of the housing is tends to be in that two to three story the town homes and the row homes. Um the apartments are four, six and and 10 stories in a couple occasions. Some of the office is also between four and 10 stories. So as you develop um four stories and six stories is a pretty sweet spot for most developers. After that the codes change architecturally and the and the structure changes to be much more expensive. So you got to get to 10 to make it worth their while to develop. So I didn't notice that any parking structures is there parking structures obviously. Yeah. So, I've got a a space for a couple parking structures today. Um, and those are placeholders. uh we we don't we haven't figured all that out to to that level of detail, but it is something that staff and I have talked about as potentially a city investment to put that in first and then recoup that cost and and really set the set the tone for the district because you do want to really limit the amount of surface parking because that's again how you get all that open space. Yeah, Ian, you must have a question. Can I inter one second? Sure. Since

we're talking about height. Sure. Um I apologize. Um you you mentioned height a few minutes ago. The workshop number one, two comments were to limit the height at 50 feet. Um at the joint workshop in December, Carwin specifically said we do not want 10 12tory buildings in this area. Workshop number two after he said that in March all of a sudden we got 10 11 12 story buildings. Where did that come from? who which one of these council members, planning commissioners, who said, "Hey, let's go to 12 stories." Um, I believe the the idea of going four to 10 stories probably came from a conversation with us and staff and and the development community because again, you need to go from six to 10. And I think, and Doug can correct me on this if if I'm wrong, I think 75 feet is what is what the EDC allows, right? So that gets you about five to maybe six if you don't if you don't do it very well, right? If you have a low ceiling, floor to ceiling height. I'm just wondering be wondering where it because there's no explanation at all about how um two comments said 50 feet max actually lowering the EDC's height restriction um to Carwin saying we don't want 10 and 12 story buildings to now we're looking at 10 11 12 story buildings. I just yeah where that came from understood. Um, I I don't recall exactly where that came from, so I I apologize for that. I I don't know why you would lower the height to 50 ft because then really the effect of that is spreading everything out in threetory buildings and you lose all of the effects of the open space and the walkability that could be created in an innovation

district. The general consensus from the people that I spoke with at workshop number one um was that 50 foot we' get some leeway would be a maximum of a fourstory hotel. There was no discussion at all about going vertical um more than that. So that's why people came up with the 50 ft. Okay. So So in in comment to that I I can't say I'm thrilled about a 10tory but how many stories is the Lomolinda Hospital? I think it's about eight as I saw it as I drove by. So would you be comfortable with the Lolinda Hospital building be in right in that corner there? I I don't think it's quite that high. How many how many stories is about when I was looking when I was looking at that um the height restriction there? I was looking at LM Linda also. In fact, I think I asked someone from staff if but they were unaware because that's city of Marietta. Um, and just visually I'm thinking it's maybe 75 ft tall, but I I I can't answer that. That's okay. That's okay. Um, I I appreciate the the opportunity. So, uh, first of all, I want to say I I like the the plan conceptually. that is I certainly understand um the desire to incorporate um office space or lab type space in incubators and I get the whole concept with how an incubator feeds into some of the other desired R&D uses or office uses. Um I understand even a a residential component. I I I get I get the relationship there as well as the retail shops and restaurants. So, so conceptually I I get that I I have a number of concerns. You've heard my concerns uh in previous in a previous conversation. Um so I just will start out like this. You had at the beginning

of the uh uh the presentation said, "Hey, we've got about 4 million square feet of commercial and R&D space." So any kind of reasonable absorption rate on that. Uh, this is we're kicking this out a lot longer than a 40-year plan. Let's let's assume that Meny could absorb a 100,000 square feet a year in class A office space every year for the next 40 years is what that supply would equal. And there's no way we'd hit 100,000 square feet of absorption rate every year for the next 40 years. Today, and I realize this is today. We're not I'm not talking long term. I don't I'm not sure who's building class A office space. That's not to say that there's not a need for it. My concern is when you when you go that far out with with the supply, it impacts costs related to infrastructure associated infrastructure. From a CIP standpoint, you got to build roads, water, sewer, and all the other infrastructure necessary to serve that. Speaking of a 10story building, I I would my my professional opinion is you don't have enough firefighters on duty at any particular point in time in Meny or in Meny and Mya or in Meny Myrietta an Asia jurisdiction to fight a 10-story high-rise fire. Um so there's demand for services that I think is unanswered. So, while conceptually I get it, it it seems very large numbers and I'm not sure those numbers are realistic and that that impacts the city from an infrastructure cost standpoint, but also it becomes a land bank and so it sits there uh potentially undeveloped until you such time as demand occurs over who

knows how many decades. So, that's a concern I have. I'm not against the concept. It's a concern I have. the the other the other thing. So, it's absorption rate. The other the other the other comment is I'm very familiar with the Tory Pines um uh business park and the campus and its proximity to UCSD. There's a key proximity to UCSD. UCSD to find UCSD. USD is on the hill over UCSD. Is that what I said? I said UCSD. That's what I said. Yeah, I know. Oh, okay. UCSD, its proximity to UCSD, I think, is key, right? So, you've got you've got a university with a, you know, teaching hospital, research hospital associated with it. You've got adjacent biotech medical R&D development. That's a great mix. We don't have that here. And if I'm if I'm the CEO of a biotech company, I'm guessing I might say I think I want to live in La Hoya and and so how do you get those companies here? How do you attract them? Maybe is a satellite campus and and that might work. I realize that because of the some of their workforce is probably located here, but I you had said this is as much an economic development plan as anything else and I think that's very true. I think that needs to be explored uh a lot more because even though we might want a lot of R&D or tech it zone it and they will come doesn't work. I've seen that over and over again maybe to a small extent but you you don't zone it and folks show up because you've got the zoner. So I have some concerns in that regard um with the height with the absorption rate. Um I I know you can when when this goes to build out,

developers are going to want to build the residential product first. You can certainly limit that to a certain extent with phasing, but if you tie too many of those hands, then the even the residential product doesn't become attractive to developers because they might go somewhere else. So I I think I think there's there's a lot of concerns with the scale and implementation that I'm not comfortable with because I don't think it's appropriate to land bank stuff for for you know 40 years that that's beyond the horizon of the general plan in the city of Meny. So I I think I would share my colleagues concern with respect to the uh to the height of the of the buildings. I think it's also the scale um of the project overall and and even and I'll conclude with this so I don't monopolize the entire discussion. Um I I I think I'd said earlier if you can bring in sitdown restaurants I I will love you forever. Very hard to get sitdown restaurants. There's a number of dynamics in California that are play the cost of labor the all of that stuff. I won't get into that, but but I know you want restaurants. I I would love to see restaurants here, but I I'm not sure I've heard really anything about how we intend to get those first in development cost for a restaurant. First in very expensive. Not a lot of restaurants can can handle that. And then lastly, I lied. I had one more. Lastly, no, no, no. My my my other concern is we we have a a town center, albeit not like this, but certainly Newport and and Han and all of the commercial retail development that's around here, uh, courthouse, uh, city hall development across the

way, the amphitheater, all that stuff is starting to come together. My concern is, and I'm going to I'm going to steal I think a a word that one of my other colleagues would use. I I would be concerned about cannibalizing this for that. So those are my concerns because I don't want to be entirely negative. I want to come back to what I I I think the concept is good. I I like the concept. I appreciate it. I think you've got the right ideas going there. For me, it's a scale issue. Thank you. I'll tag tag on to what you're saying based on your experience, Maretta, and other places you've been. what do you see would be a scale or maybe a different theme there that would work just from your experience? So I I think you have to look at absorption rate uh for the different uses and also engage economic development um folks to start saying hey what's realistic what can we really attract and I do think we can attract some of those uses. I I do I just don't think we're going to attract as many as are are in the plan and in in an adjacent jurisdiction that I have some knowledge of. Um there was a land use designation for a while called OP OP. Yeah. Office research park. Is that a golden triangle? Uh no but it was it was south. It it was a colossal failure. Developers didn't understand it. People didn't come and build. So it set vacant for years and it prevented other uses because of the So I think we have to be really careful with that. I get the what did it ultimately become? I don't know which ultimately it became partially innovation which is a very similar mix to what we have today and and there's still challenges with with that. So it it's great ideas. It just we just need to be careful with how we approach it.

So I don't I don't want to be over overly negative. I just want everyone to hear my concerns. You can dismiss them if you like. I'm just a guy. Well, well, to tag on what you're saying, what comes to mind is on the 15, you know where Boot Barn is along there? Boot Barn in Muretta and the BMW, the Boot Barns, uh there used to be there was a FedEx and a lot of that just stayed vacant for years and then they put up the I think it's two to fourtory buildings and you've now you've got some university extensions in there. I think there's three universities in there. You've got a Kaiser over there, a satellite office. you've got um some light manufacturing and some retail that is kind of how I see this should go uh maybe on a bigger scale but that organically evolved because of the need and and I don't disagree but I I don't so you have you have R&D I didn't really hear a conversation about light manufacturing you know if you had tech all indoors I I heard more class A office maybe lab space. The video showed, you know, folks in a lab coat with test tubes and stuff. So, I think it's a mixture of both. Yeah, I know. I know. So, I I think it's possible. I I I guess if I were to wrap this up, um so that Tammy doesn't get mad at me for taking all the time. If I were to wrap this up, I would say I just want to make sure we get the mix right. I'm not sure that's the case yet. Ivan, um, in the city of M city of Marietta, there is an innovation district. Um, how long has that been in place? Uh, the zoning was changed a few years ago. Yeah, maybe five years, something like that. In that time, you have one urgent care, a busy yard, and a closed

down Jean Channel fishing hole. Um, it's not quite that drastic, but you're not far off. But what's what's been But now you have the Costco. It's in between the Costco and Linda. Costco is below. Costco is just commercial zoning. It's not in the innovation district. Costco was different. Um, but what was the hurdle in the city of Muretta to get that innovation district built to come in there and someone buy that bus property to buy the properties along that road all the way to Whitewood? you're you're a little bit outside of my area of expertise, but but here's what I understand. When when you're uh if you're developing residential there there there can be a substantial amount of money in residential development. When you when you develop as an innovation area, that's a little bit harder to to find. And so, you can't pay the same premium necessarily that you can pay for for residential land. You're a little bit outside of my area of expertise. So, I don't want to go too far down that that road, but that's I think that's that's a problem. you know, the owner says, "Hey, we think our land is worth this, but when you when you load in all the development costs, um the residual value is actually much less than almost everybody thinks it is." Those are not issues that specific plans deal with, but it is a real world issue. Thank you, Ivan. Ivan, you're going to be speaking a lot tonight. Okay. Because I have a because when you mentioned um phasing in, right? primarily with the economic portion of the R&D, the office buildings and then you said we have to make sure we don't tie our hands. Can you speak more to that because um I know that some cities have successfully implemented phasing. So tell me tell me more about that please. I think we can implement phasing but I'm I'm actually gonna ask you if you could I was gonna ask if you wanted to trade places Ivan. Yeah.

Um, sorry, could you repeat the question? So, um, Commissioner Holler mentioned phasing and that has that has been one of my thoughts as I was reading through um the innovation district and but he but um Commissioner Holler also mentioned we don't want to tie our hands too much. So, what would be a good balance um to phase and tie to highwage jobs? Yeah, it's a it's a great question and it's a tricky question and like Commissioner Holler, it's a little not exactly in my wheelhouse. I design physical places as much as I do anything else. But like I said, this is a big bold step. There is no doubt about that. Um and ide I mean we were given the task of writing an innovation district specific plan across 375 acres that today has some warehouse, some logistic spaces and some existing farms. Um so we took a big bold step when we put this forward. There is no doubt about that. It is an economic challenge as much as it is an economic plan and I have said that as forthright as I could to staff that this is this is on staff now to go out and sell this project and bring those people in. I think as far as the phasing goes, that northeast campus is the natural place for me to call a phase one because you've got the existing retail at Scott Road right there and building on that. Plus, the retail advisors have told us that those parcels along the highway are probably ready to be sold. And so, some of the other pieces of the district, nobody has mentioned wanting to sell any of those. So we're creating a plan looking out

into the future across you know and making presumptions basically but those particular properties and parcels are probably likely to ready to be sold would be high visibility attached to amenities or within distance to amenities and it's all the things that a good office developer is looking for to begin with. So that that would be my first phase. And if we if we were given the task of writing an innovation district for the north 35 acres of this place, I think some of that would actually remain the same to be honest with you. So, in my opinion, um, has the has the the developers that you spoke to or the real estate people said it's likely to be sold first, but have they talked about the demand for office space though there? It'll be sold. It's the most attractive. It's the It's the most attractive piece because it's right along the freeway. A lot of visual there, right? But what did they say if it was built like Truax? Um, I I was on the posi for the Smacula for 15 years and we used to ride around and see the Trucks buildings down there. Um is something like those or even higher obviously. Um would they be leased out fairly quickly or is there a demand for that right now? What did they mention anything like that? Yeah. No, we didn't we haven't gotten into demand. That's that's another phase another step in our process to get to when as we write these policies. I think I think the demand could be there and from what we heard from the development community at the design workshop um or the design sharet was that the city needs to step up with some policies and tools to allow that those developers to come in and then it would be there because they know the workforce is here already. They know the residential is already here. So the a lot of the pieces

are already in play in the city. It's you're lacking the office space and I think you're lacking the office space humble opinion, partially from an economic development point of view, going out and finding those people to bring in and partially from a big bold policy and a big bold plan that says we're ready for business. Come in and and you know, we we want you here. And I think I think some of that has to be a little bit more vocal. you know, look looking at the picture, it looks great, but I see how many you say 40 years and but that's what I'm thinking it's going to take anyway. And so, let's say is it always going to be an area under construction for all that time? We're going to be we're going to be working on infrastructure and keep work on road widening and curb and gutter and traffic signals. Just it's going to be a It's going to be a a sore there for a long time. I I hear you. Um, so our innovation, our district is 375 acres and if I read the report correctly, there's 2600 acres in the economic development corridor that the city has set aside as economic development for the future growth and future development of Meny. So, we are a tiny little blip in that 2600 acres um along along I 215. Um, you know, I'm Well, I know we're only doing the concept right now, and I I love the comments that the commissioners are making, and uh we just got to get this right before the specific plan is who could could it hold up builders, the specific plan, or are they waiting for it to get started? Sorry, say that again. So, so in other words, is the specific plan going to slow things down? gonna

slow building down if this concept doesn't catch on. Um, will it be a hindrance rather than a carrot? Well, no, because we would write things to allow a pretty wide variety of uses. Um, we've heard from the public and staff and others that more logistics, more warehousing spaces is probably not what's desired in that corridor. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but um, seeing some head shaking. So, you know, I think that's what you're going to get if you don't have some vision put forward. You're going to get more of that low-end. And those are nice warehousing spaces. I mean, there's no doubt about it. They they went above and beyond what a lot of people do, but that's what you're going to get more of up and down Ziders Road and Han and and the rest of it along 215 and the storage units that are further north and so on and so forth because it's easy to develop. So, I'm done. So in our meeting yesterday, we we had different meetings. The big question I had was what is the carrot that will motivate a developer to come in and build whether it's office space or tech or whatever it is over for example there's the space between Scott Road and Lowe's. There's all that space. Why would they want to build in this innovation district over that which is closer to the city center? Usually things, you know, geographically kind of go against next to each other. Development pushes out. So what is the carrot of this innovation district that would motivate them? I I think it's I think part of it at least and you know I'll look to staff to help me out on this a little bit who know the city better than I do, but I think part of it is being part of a bigger vision to where you want to be you want your office space next to

walkable amenities and residential and the rest of it. That is there are certain people out there looking to develop in those types of areas. Um, if I'm not worried about that and I just want the the least expensive land and plop an office building down and and a sea of asphalt parking around it, that again, that's easy to do and that's what that's what is easier to do further north probably because it doesn't have it wouldn't have the the same specific plan behind it, pushing for that bigger vision and the open space and and the rest of it. I you know if I could if I could add on to that um I think one of the things is just generally it needs to be cheaper to build inside the box than outside the box right so that's the incentives that have to come along with a plan like this and and you've got a couple of financing mechanisms that are mentioned in the agenda report I don't know if you or someone else want to talk about EFIDS I don't know if the city's done one I don't I'm not sure I don't think so um that's that's one option but the other are incentives Right. So, um, service parking and is expensive and burns up a lot of land. Structured parking is crazy expensive, burns up less land. You know, that might be something that from an infrastructure contribution standpoint that, and you alluded to this, I think, um, Mr. Director, you alluded to this earlier. Um, so I think those options, those are other options and that that kind of follows along with the implementation. I mean, I it's kind of easy to get excited about the pretty pictures and the video of somebody in a lab coat. Um, but having seen that before, uh, I I think we need to develop the rest of the the package so that we understand how the implementation is going to go, so that we understand the project phasing, so that we understand

the absorption rate, how high is it, you know, do we really have to build? If you're talking 10 stories, you're moving into a podium construction. Um, I mean, wraparound, I don't I don't have any idea. That's not my area of expertise, but all of those questions, I think, including being able to serve it are important to at least touch on now. And just for facts, I looked up um Land Hospital's five stories. So, touching on the EIFD stuff, I know because we do I form districts for a living. the IFDs can take 10 to 20 years to actually be able to bond and and get any money out of it. So I know one of the carrots is having a pre a done e for the whole investing. So therefore someone coming in doesn't have that cost and that time delay. So that's one carrot. Orlando, are there any other carrots as far as installing infrastructure? Let let me ask let me ask do we want to continue to ask Jeff questions or we want to move the questions to I think we can just ask anybody. Yeah, just generally or this just a because he may want to chime in on some other districts how it's done. But to me if I'm coming into an area going to develop the EI's done is a huge issue because you've already gone through the lawsuits you've already gone through the cost and the time which kills deals. Number two, most important would be the infrastructure. If I can build and there's a sewer line sitting right at my door, I'll come build. You know, it's a couple million every couple hundred feet or something for that stuff. So, is has has it been discussed at all on a city level of investment in something like that through other city funds to make that investment to install the infrastructure or some of it as a carrot? it we we've had initial uh discussions uh internally

with staff. We've we're exploring different types of uh financing mechanisms. One being in you know in enhanced infrastructure financing districts as well. We've actually are talking to consultants that are uh assisting us to uh you know help us out uh understand those and the benefits of those and how we implement some of those uh financing tools that are available. So this is going to be a a partnership effort. Obviously we understand that the city has to assist and and and and help with uh uh we have to think out of the box, right? This is just not happen this is not something that's just going to happen by itself, right? So there has to be different things that we do and we partner with uh developers, property owners and and and find a way to make it happen. I do want to uh make a couple comments or responses to some of the comments. I I I I I understand there's a a little bit of um concerns with the density, maybe the massing, maybe the height, uh the number of stories, right? Again, we're showing pictures to give you an idea as to what could be in in in portions of the specific plan, right? Not entire specific plan is going to be an 8 to 10 story building, right? So, I just want to make sure that's clear, right? So we do want to give that flexibility because if uh when you go to that height obviously the expenses and and I think everybody understands a little bit of that it's it's extremely high right so uh we we we see it we're where we're going to have a gradual uh development plan in terms of uh you know the offices coming in most likely we'll start maybe four four three four stories right and then maybe we move on to maybe five six stories and And there will be probably a case where we're going to have, you know, an eight an eight story building, right? We we really don't know. But the one thing we

don't want to do is is provide restrictions that would give developers the ability to do something that we want to see because the the this is this is what we want, right? We want the the dense employment centers. We want the higher residential stories as well. Uh it's not going to happen throughout. So I understand that there's some concerns and and I think staff would probably have the similar concerns if we plaster the entire SP with that amount of of of uh buildings, right? So we do want to provide some flexibility. We do want to also make sure that we have safeguards in the plan that help us not only uh some of your comments where we don't want to see the uh residential come in first. So there's different things that we still have to explore. Obviously uh this is just to give us the go ahead to start going to the next step which is getting the market analysis completed. you know, making sure that the infrastructure is analyzed, that the service is analyzed and what what is that mean? And and maybe once we do a full analysis of what the services are needed, maybe that comes back and says, guess what? Nothing can be higher than seven stories, right? And then that gets tweak and that gets implemented into the plan. But uh I I think we need to be careful uh in in regards to what limitations we put in and uh we need to make sure we have uh as Jeff indicated this is a bold plan, right? and and it's not going to happen overnight. And uh it's I I I completely understand that if you do the math, I mean, it could be a 40-year uh plan. And and uh but and again, it it may it may take a different direction and it may be done sooner with

some variation of what we think it may be right now. Mr. Commissioner Holler, I I agree. Those are good comments. I agree with the desire to maintain flexibility, but flexibility when you're talking about buildout numbers influence cost. So all that all those infrastruct all the infrastructure that's required to support that level of development and I see your public works director somewhere at the back of the room there. There we are. Um that ultimately shows up in in development impact fees, right? Because you gota you got to pay for that somehow. So I we it's just a balance, right? I get that your comments are really valid. I I probably have spoken too much about the implementation concerns. Well, no, you answered a question that was just in my head is so we go forward with design and maybe they don't build tenstory. Well, who cares? Well, like you talk about the infrastructure coming down the street is going to be based on potential buildout. So, do we need a 6ft, 10 foot, 20 foot sewer line? And it all depends on what we're pling. So that does make a difference. Commissioner Holler, um you were talking about 100,000 but 4 million square feet of office space with an absorption of a 100,000 in your example. Um I'm looking at something right now. Um LA County reported 11 year 11 consecutive quarters of negative net absorption uh with a vacancy rate of 24.5%. Um, Orange County is at 14%. I'm sorry, San Diego County is at 14%. Um, Orange County is at 15%. And it's basically 20% um negative or vacancy rate in Southern California if you were to combine them all. Um, so

your 40 years is going to turn into 120 years. Hypothetically, the numbers are there. Comm Commissioner Knight, I I I would like to make a comment about that and because we're we're fully aware of of those numbers in other regions for sure. Uh what we're also aware is that we have uh right now we have businesses that are paying retail rates to open up an office because we have zero vacancy, right? So I think those numbers are accurate. in other areas of Southern California. Uh I I think we're in a different region. Uh and I think obviously when we talk about the 4 million, I don't think we're talking about 4 million of just office space only, right? We're talking it's a different square footage of different things. So I think we're we're not truly comparing apples to apples, right? But the I I understand that there's there's there's a concern that this number could be high, right? And and again, this is something that has to be vetted and and it has to uh uh has to be analyzed to make sure that we have the right balance, right? And I think your concerns are valid and those will be definitely um you know, brought forward and shared with council. And again, this is not something that it's already set in stone in terms of this is what eventually it's going to happen. uh or eventually what's going to get built because again, you know, it could it could take a different uh direction. But uh we got to make sure we go through the studies, we analyze everything and uh your comments again, those will be shared with council and between your comments and council's comments, you know, this this could be uh slightly modified.

Orlando, I know you're not going to be able to come up with exact numbers. Uh, Liberty, freedom, and men business parks. Those are all this that that's exactly business park office space. How many square feet is that? I uh obviously I don't have the total square footage, but it's not true office space. It's it it can be though. It Yeah, but it's been designed a little bit different. And it's been design saying more um uh for potentially having those those small businesses such as um maybe your your cabinet uh manufacturer, right? That wants to have an office and a sales uh retail retail component in front and then you know the manufacturer on the back, right? Because you're looking at uh you know 10 to 20,000 square foot buildings, right? Can that be an office? Absolutely it can be. But I think I think the the intent is for something slightly different. I think it'd be wiser to wait and see the market for those three business parks that are currently in development before we jump into a plan with 4 million square feet that we don't even know if there's a desire for. Um I think they do know there's a desire. I think planning does this every day and knows what will what the um builder want the developer wants. I appreciate your numbers though, Michael, but I appreciate that you're going for the moon here rather than some what if anybody can do. You're trying to move us into grand do grand dose here. I I really appreciate that, but we're not there yet. I mean, Nick's going to have his hands full. I mean, I don't know how much money the city's going to put into capital improvements on the sink infrastructure. I don't know. It it's it's a lofty goal, but we're just we're we're on what first base right now.

So, but yeah, you're you're right, Michael, but that's not our business if the market is cyclical. And uh but if we hinder development, if we go and we change like what we can build in the Southern Gateway for something that might possibly be here in 30 years. Then we're concerned about sales tax revenue and highpaying jobs. Those businesses can be coming in tomorrow. That if we change the development code, um we're out and we're going to wait three decades for development. I think we're going to work on that plan that'll bring those development in tomorrow. Commissioner, I think it's I think it's the a little bit of the opposite, right? I think if if we let the southern gateway develop what's currently zone then we may not get exactly what we want right the high paying jobs that we're looking for right so we are um trying to put something in place that will give us the ability to attract exactly the businesses the offices that we want with the architecture uh that we want as well right so uh if we do nothing we do risk losing and an opportunity to build something special. I I'll balance the two of you by saying if we don't do something a little lofty, we will end up what's going on in the EDC Northgate. You guys all saw me screaming about the warehouses and against my desire on that, we're going to leave some of that up there, but we're going to end up with what we don't want up there. If we don't change in the Southern Gateway, we're going to end up with the same crap we got up there. Now what's different about the Southern Gateway is we are right next to Lomolinda Hospital and all the medical that's going in and the different the Costco's going in. Those are all anchors that are going to bring a lot of stuff. That proximity and the and the freeway proximity

gives us a different quality that we can develop there. So that's why I'm for that. You're exactly right as far as if this was the EDC Northgate, but I'm willing to hold out a little bit. I and I agree with Ivan as far as I think we might need to bring the stories down only only because if it's going to require infrastructure that is infeasible then we will be sitting there no land banking for 50 years. Let me uh let me ask you this. A lot of the am I a lot of the uh development has now been halted in the northern gateway. You were at the joint meeting last December. Um, you heard from council members and planning commissioners that residential was not a high priority in that area. It was supposed to go to work. This is a work zone. Also, no entertainment. Uh, Ben and Dean said it. There's a bar next to it. Adult entertainment, but not that kind of adult entertainment. Um, but what I got out of you guys that evening was you guys were not really for the residential. If we have a need for residential and multi-use residential, why not infill it in the Northern Gateway where actually all the jobs are? I mean, they're entry level jobs, but there are some highpaying jobs in that area. And rather than be sporadic, I I guess because I I haven't paid attention to what the residential component is on the Northern Gateway, but I could care less if I see another house up there. To me, that's a light industrial manufacturing hub is what that should be, not housing to me because that's how it's developing out. I could see housing in the southern gateway, not in the EDC North Gateway. So, yeah. Jeff, I have a question for you.

um as it's currently designed, how would that attract the businesses that we're seeking, the corporations that we're seeking? I know that you you had worked on the Google campus if I'm not mistaken. What were the elements that attracted Google to that? Yeah. So, um yeah. So, for for 12 years, I I was Google's lead urban planner. And so that's what I was doing was transforming our campuses in Mountain View and Sunnyale from office warehouses which we just bought up and put office into into complete communities more like this. So really the the attraction and not just for Google and the tech companies but if you go to um the Global Institute on Innovation Districts GID it's a really great website. They've got all kinds of information around the world of all the innovation districts that they are a part of their system. And really what those employers are looking for is the adjacency to amenities, amenity rich environments, um a balance of the residential and then the ability to have the small companies in those incubators and startups that they can either buy later once they come up with a good idea. You know, that happens quite often or it's the sharing of ideas back and forth. And so, you know, Commissioner Thomas is exactly right with Lomma Linda and Kaiser and and the rest of the corridor right here. Those are some of your established anchors that could be looking for some of those companies to come closer here. Um, Commissioner Holler, I I I don't expect the CEOs from to to move out of La Hoya to move into Meny. That's that's not the goal. the the the goal is that is to kind of stop or change the trend that 90% of Manify's workforce works

outside of the city. That that is uneconomically feasible for the long-term future. It took me two and a half hours to come up here from San Diego today and I don't think everybody was going on vacation, right? th those are those are people that work down there that are driving back the same time I was trying to drive here. So, um you know there's a I I think when we look at this problem and and really try to put some issues forward it's finding that that right balance of uses and I agree I mean it is a big bold step. I will say it again, there is no doubt about that. There are challenges ahead of this, but I think there's challenges ahead of the the workforce and the rest of Meny no matter what because I and I agree. So jobs housing balance is is you know more of that is where we want that takes a long time even and and we all know that even the residential that's here there's no requirement for someone to live and work in the same in the same area. So I I don't disagree with any of that. I think you you've heard my concerns. I won't reiterate them, but it is it is a balance, right? Because reaching for the moon has consequences in other areas. And so I think I think that's the thing that I would like to if you want to take one thing from my comments, it would be hey, let's go back and make sure that that this is the right balance that we haven't gone so far that it creates negative ramifications in other areas. And I have been complimentary of the concept. No, I appreciate that. Yeah. So, I'm not I'm not trying to say, "Hey, I don't like the plan." I'm just saying I'm not quite sure it's ready for prime time yet. I'd like to see go back and evaluate that a little bit more. And I hope that clarifies my comments if I've come across as being overly negative. That wasn't my intent. That's why we're here, but but it is to point out things that I

see that I think could be problems. So, so, so kind of on that what we're hinting at is the 10 story is probably not going to work in the end. But did you do the 10tory because you just wanted to throw out an opportunity or does it pencil in as far as you want you needed the square footage to make it work? No, it's it's a future opportunity to be honest with you. So, so if we I would fully expect the first projects to come in to be four and six stories because that's what pencils for standard development today. Once you go above six stories, you change to from framing to concrete and you pretty much have to go to 10 stories to make it worth your while to pencil out. So that's why the 10 stories existed, but I fully expect it's not a requirement, right? I fully expect the first projects to come in at four to six stories and try to see if it happens because they're going to and hopefully they are incentivized by things by the carrots from the city. My initial thought would be to pull out the tin story only because it will drive infrastructure financing and public safety needs that will kill the deal. Does that make sense? It does totally. So that would be my my thought on that because you um and then later you can amend it if you know but if if if it's going to prevent if that fact is going to prevent development in the future because the infrastructure needs then I would pull that out personally. Yeah, I I I I hear you on that and for sure I think there's ways to go about that, but it's not my area of expertise. But um yeah, we that is certainly something that we need to look at in the future. I don't think we wanted to I think we were trying to think big and put out a big bold number and not not limit ourselves to what is easy today basically. Yeah. We don't want a bunch of what's gone in there so far, right? You want something much nicer than that and I would support

that. Commissioner Thomas, let's um part of the reason that we have to analyze the worst case scenario, right? So uh when we start the environmental process and we do you know uh you know impacts to aesthetics and if if we're contemplating 10tory buildings that's a specific impact that we need to analyze right so if if if we don't do that then then we we don't have a a a valid environmental document right so right we need to we need to I even If 10 stories don't happen, which we don't think that probably not going to happen for a long time or maybe it may not even hap it may not even happen, but if we don't analyze it, make it part of the project, then we don't have the opportunity or the ability to do it. But what happens and I understand what you're saying. If there were no cost to it, I say throw it out there. Who cares? It doesn't cost anything. But when the first guy comes in or gal to build, say they're down on uh halfway down Ziders, I mean Han to Ziders and they want to put in a fourstory medical building because we have irred it for 10tory potentially. The size of his sewer, water lines and everything are going to be oversized and it's going to kill the deal. That's my concern. How can you do an EIR with a full potential buildout? So you cover every potential possibility yet not force him to build an infrastructure because the first guy in is what that's you got to have some bucks. So how can you still downsize the infrastructure and not kill the deal if uh if he's only doing a fourstory yet he has to build infrastructure for a 10tory because he's the first guy in at the end of the road. you know, obviously that that's some studies that we need to complete and and and figure out and kind

of do do the numbers, right? So obviously we're early early in the process and we don't have all the answers right now. But to your point, I think these are valid concerns, valid questions that obviously we will look into and make sure that one if if we do provide for that height that we have the ability to service it and if we don't then obviously then we make uh the proper adjustments. Yeah. If you could do workarounds, I'm all for it. I'm all for it. We just need to have some kind of a explanation of how it would work, right? Because we already have that issue down there, right? It's kind of expensive to come in down there. So, just the thought, but I do prefer something that is old and different than what we have to tag along with what's going on with the hospital. I think there's a great potential there. I have thank you something to add. Um the like for example Tory Pines are those buildings leadcertified and did that entice companies to come in the lead certification? Did that was that a incentive for them? I I would imagine they are. I don't know that for sure but I imagine they are because most of the UC system any anything new they build is almost guaranteed to be lead certified at some level. Um, plus you've got Cal Green and and a whole a host of other systems out there that the city would require to be a part of. Um, whether that's an enticement or not or an incentive, uh, probably, but not not to a great deal. Um, I think most people that are building the office space that we're envisioning, um, or the maker spaces or anything else are creative enough to get I mean, LEAD is lead's a great system,

but LEAD's kind of a lower level at this point compared to a lot of different systems that are out there, the rating systems. So, um, but yeah, I mean, it's a, you know, to to think about and as a selling point that you've got a a lead neighborhood development is is a great selling point because it means you have reached that balance of uses and other things and open spaces and your storm water and your infrastructure and, you know, you're you're forward thinking and so you do attract a a quality of tenant and a quality of developer that you're looking for. Orlando um at one point or can you explain how we went from 299 to 375 acres acres? Yeah. The original the original uh area that PDC was 299. I I think you know as part of the different workshops and and different discussions between staff and uh the consultant uh obviously we identify the need to provide the supporting residential which is critical and and I'll let Jeff maybe expand as to why residential it's a critical component to make this a a a viable district right and uh instead of reducing the the office, the the tech and and and and the retail, the restaurants within the district. Uh we we opted to expand it so we have more of that instead of taking away from it. But obviously we we we understand the residential is a key component and and we needed uh some of the density to be part of it and and that's why the the original plan got expanded.

Anything else? Uh no, I mean residential is kind of an auxiliary use in in the in the economic development corridor. It's not supposed to be the primary use. So, I think that's what Orlando's getting at is that as we incorporated that R2 zone out to the west, it it allowed for for more of that residential to balance it out. Um, my personal preference is to always have your residential a good 800 feet from the highway. Um, from a health safety perspective and so we got to push it a little bit further, but it's it's a I mean, another valid point. Yeah. I gota I got to let you guys know I have a problem with downzoning 5 acre properties to 80 dwelling units an acre. Um, what is that? 400 400 units on on an existing property. Um, I I don't see the community going for that. I don't see the council going for that. Um, that's a that's a huge huge um concern of mine because we're running out of acreage and one of the one of the things you hear all the time is, you know, losing our our rural identity. Oh god, I said enough word. But um I think given the choice of keeping a 5 acre property, an area of 5 acre properties and bulldozing them to put 80 unit an acre. I just don't think that's the right move. I'd like to respond to that. Um, looking to the future, uh, Manif I don't want to say lost, we lost our identity a long time ago, but what since I moved here, I think we've

tripled our population. We're bringing in a new generation of college graduates and the people that were local homeowners here are the ones that have those five acres now. So, I mean, what I'm trying to say is we're growing and things are going to be changing and it's our job to see the new vision for MEAP and like Commissioner Thomas said about the warehouse, like Commissioner Holler said and Tammy, I think we're this this is a great opportunity for us. This I haven't been in many planning commission meetings, if any, that had a true vision like this. And I think with the minds that we have and what we and all everybody contributing like what we've heard tonight, it'll evolve. It'll evolve to what it should be and we can do it if we stay on it. And I know a lot of the questions that were addressed to staff are have been taken into consideration, I'm sure. And you're not I mean, do you want to do the easy thing? You want to take on the same old and I mean I'm not saying that the same old's bad, but I'm looking at it. I think we're jobs and and sales tax. Yeah. This idea is great for 40 years from now, but it doesn't solve any problems today. And you're talking about all these high school graduates going to college, they're not going to college anymore. Gen Z, well, the jobs we want to bring in are the jobs we want, the jobs that are bringing in that we want to bring in the white collar be replaced by AI in the next 10 years. Well, that's that's what we're doing right now for that. We're here to at the jobs that are coming in now. No, I agree. They're looking at blue collar work because of the stability, the wages, their high wages and and that's the input we need to

apply to this this vision, this great big beautiful specific plan, right? So, I think we're very mature. So, what what do they see right now? We it looked like it'd be a no vote right now the way it is planning commission, right? But we're not at that point. That's not what we're doing right now. And and and let me make a couple comments. Obviously, and and as I indicated at the beginning of the meeting today, we're not approving anything, right? Um we're a year away before we come back with a document that truly shows everything that you've been asking today. Okay. Is there going to be 10 stories maybe changes? You know, what do the services look like? What does everything look like, right? And obviously there's been a lot of great input. I think some of your questions and concerns. Uh obviously we're going to take those with us and and if and again if we if we get the thumbs up to continue moving forward uh once we take this to council then all of your feedback all of your comments will be looked into will be addressed and will be made part of the document. Right? So once we come back and if commission and council are not comfortable with why we come back then at that point you know the commissioner has uh you know the ability to decide one way or the other and so does the council Orlando I get where you're coming from but let me ask you a question. Do you plan on changing um the development code and saying, "Hey, this can't be in there because we won't have an innovation zone someday." I mean, if a project came to us next week or five weeks from now, six weeks from now

of a guy who wants to open a motorcycle shop and sell motorcycles and maintenance repair on them, um are we going to say no? Because if we already had a specific plan in place, it's actually maybe it's more logical for two years down the line. Can you do a zone change? Can you say no or do we have to say no to that motorcycle shop? Once the specific money is in place and we have an adopted ordinance that that tells people what the requirements and what the allowed uses are, then then yeah, we they would have to follow what's in place. So we we'd have to deny the project. No, we don't have they wouldn't be allowed to submit a project if it's not unless they want to submit a project specific concurrently with code amendment. So we're going to leave a land piece of land vacant potentially until it gets absorbed by commission properties. Uh just as um because this is a living document right now, right? This is a work in progress, a draft if you will, that will have multiple iterations and may come back to you multiple times before there's even a true document for you to adopt. If the conversation, and I'll leave it up to the experts and staff to decide, but if the conversation is you you want certain types of projects to be able to to exist there uh that would fit into the vision in the long term, you can do that. You can make those recommendations. Um, and as the project, you know, as the the specific plan gets approved, maybe a motorcycle shop would fit into the vision. That's your policy prerogative uh of whatever it is that you want. Um, and then as projects even with a specific plan, you know, there there are potentially opportunities in the future if there's certain parts of it that might get amended or a specific plan might get amended even, you know, five

or 10 years from now. I'm not saying that's necessarily what we want because we want to go forward with the specific plan vision, but as you know with changes in state law and and you know needs of the economy and as the city grows things can evolve and it will be up to the policy makers at that time to make the determination at that time. Uh I think the the conversation here is to give you a chance to give input into what our professionals have looked at and said hey maybe this is in working with economic development and our experts and planning say this is where we see the city of Meny going given that it's uh grown so much in the last 10 years. this is where the economy is going and we want to plan for that eventuality but it's not set in stone and so um well I'm sure we'll come back multiple times for you to give more input because the next iteration of this might not may or may not have the 10 stories that'll be up to you and then maybe you know a few months from now suddenly the price of steel is very cheap and and 10 stories is what we want right that's that's up to you but I just wanted to remind you that um the goal I think is not to leave anything empty for you know a 10-year period or to keep just dirt. Uh the goal is to encourage development but development in a way that fits the vision of the city and where we're going to go. Because what you'll see with older cities, I believe, is if you let some of these lower uh revenue generating uses that may not have the long-term vision of cities, then you end up stuck with some of those businesses that might not fit into what the city where the city's going in 10 or 20 years. Sure. And may I add too, um, you know, I mean, there's going to be a range of uses that are going to come forward with

this plan. Um, and we do want it to have enough flexibility to allow for a variety of things. Um, and I think primarily though, we want to promote and support and make it by right for the for the types of uses that are going to be that are going to achieve the vision. Um, and maybe other uses that aren't so much in line with the vision. you know, maybe not prohibiting them outright, but perhaps their conditional use permit or that kind of thing that um you know, we're we're steering at least the plan will steer the uses to um achieving the vision. So, I I'm I'm not as concerned about the individual uses. I mean, you'll come back with a matrix at some point in time or, you know, down the road. But I do have this question. Um, I'm hoping that we will get to see this not a year from now when you're ready to, you know, uh, publish an NLP. I'm hoping that we'll get to see a couple of iterations of this that reflect our comments and whatever comments come from the council uh, before you get to the NOP. That's correct. that there will be there will be u multiple opportunities to um provide input and and uh even once a document is in a draft form it'll come back to you to tweak it even some more and and even until the last day probably tweaks will happen. And going back to sorry I just picked motorcycle just as an argument there. If some dude wants to build that right now on a on a twoacre property right next to Caliber actually um I want to make sure it's left in the development code

to allow him to do that because we're looking down the line 20 30 years. There's no reason for him not to have a business, pay employees good wages, have sales tax revenue for the city for the next 10, 15 years until some developer decides to assemble both those properties and build one of those um Intel campuses. So, while I can accept this being a future item, I don't want to hamper I don't want to hamper current development because I think if we hamper current development, um it's going to be a loss for the city. Like for example, where I buy my electrical supplies in my in my day-to-day business, I purchase them in Tmacula. They have a oneacre lot. maybe $15 million in sales a year. Um, every employee in there makes six figures except for the one of the runner guys. That's a that's a hell of a business. Six, seven guys. But it's not tech. It's not innovation. But for someone to sit there and occupy a space for 15 years, that's that can't be a loss for the city. So I don't want to us to be so clouded with an innovation district and we're not looking at all the pieces that can happen in the meantime. Thank you, Mike. Um, commissioners have any more questions for staff? Okay. I don't have any questions, but I just want to Well, I just I don't know if it's a question, but um

I don't know. Um for me, I would really like to see performance-based um phasing types of job creation. If we're going to go dense, I would like to see like a VMT mitigation fund for alternative modes of transportation and then to consider rule design standards or from based zoning. Thank you, Tammy. If there aren't any further questions, uh madame clerk, was there any correspondence received on this item? And are there any requests to speak? Yes to both. Um, our community development director has asked me to share uh one of the letters included in your folders. But before I do that, I'm going to invite Mr. Klein up to the podium because he would like to make a public comment. Thank you. Good evening. Uh, great questions. Good job, Orlando consultant. Um, I'm going to try and address some of the things that you guys uh answered or or asked and and based on my history here with the city prior to incorporation and and my longtime history in Mya to use as examples. So, I hope I can get through this list in a limited time. Um my biggest concern is as Ivan mentioned is is the land banking and what it ends up becoming in my opinion is a quasi moratorum and you've got land owners down here and and you know one of the great things of America is you know landowners rights. Um something else I think is an important distinction is with this specific plan you know is distinguishing goals versus a wish list. uh and and I'm not I'm not

sure that that these are all goal driven and in that are all these things achievable and going back in history I know Chris you were here during the EDC but I I don't know who else was here when we went through this with the EDC um but much of the discussion on both sides is exactly what we went through with the EDC and a few years ago the consultant came and I think it was a 10-year review of the EDC and one of questions they asked the council at the time is what have you achieved of the EDC goal of of those goals? And so I ask you, what's been achieved? The land is raw. And time and time again, we've heard developers come forward to council and and previous council members and and some current have said, "Well, we we want to save it." And Bob Carwin asked at one time, "What are we saving when it comes? What is it?" And there's no answer for that. Um, Lomol Linda's five stories and I can tell you that the city of Muretta became less restrictive to get lolinda in. And I can elaborate on that, but I don't want to burn my time unless one of you want to ask a question. Um, land is cheaper for parking lots than a parking structure. You see parking structures near the beach because the land is more expensive than building the parking structure. The OP in Myrietta mainly is south of Carmax along Monroe and the city of Myrietta took $3 million of their ARPA money to put in the water line along Madison to try and spur the growth down there. However, much of that makeup is very similar to the Southern Gateway. Many lots, many small lots, many owners. That's a constraint. So, is your goal achievable? Um,

lastly because I'm almost out of time with the residential component and Tai can probably talk to this or Orlando, but be very careful historically and and you mentioned it, right? No residential before commercial. Well, with HCD and all of the the affordable housing and the no net loss. So if you zone some of this land residential and in 10, 15, 20, 30 years the city says our vision has changed, you're going to have to find a place for that residential to relocate it someplace else. Um, if I can just a little bit more, Randy, I've I've testified before more about retail. Somebody mentioned the triangle. You know, for years, Muretta, so Muretta turned 34 on July 1st, and the triangle still sits vacant because council said, "We're going to hold out." Dominiconi family came many times with different visions and the council for the council's side said, "We're going to hold out." And the market is not limited to Myrietta. And so the market went to Tmacula. So the point I'm trying to make in the comparisons with EDC and what Myrietta did um where they became less restrictive because we had a four-story limit and we had I think it was 15% landscape. We had a setback in parking and I can remember I had a project in TmAcula, a gentleman that wanted to build a hotel and he told me, this was right after I got off planning commission. He told me, "Your development code is too restrictive with all of those components. I can't get a big enough F and get enough keys to build a hotel." And I went to Randon

Lane and Doug McAllister who were on the council at the time and they revised the development code and that's how we got Linda and that's how we got the rest of the hotels. We had one hotel at the time. So I'm not I'm not saying to you to not go into a specific plan, right? I'm not saying be less restrictive, but what I heard some of you say tonight is, you know, can it be built and are we tying the hands? So it comes back to what is achievable and how do you get that? It's finding that balance. So just be concern be be careful with the unintended consequences of what we're looking at. And this is as much for staff moving forward. And I'm sure that I'll participate in some of the uh some of the the discussions. Uh but I just wanted to share those now based on some of the comments that I heard you guys making tonight which is great. This is great discussion. So thank you. Thanks for the extra time. Thank you for your wisdom. Appreciate it. Um, okay. If there are no other requests to speak, then I'll go ahead and read this comment. Madame Clerk, before you do, just uh you have two comments that are in your blue folder that were received today. Um, one of the comments that we're going to read, uh, he was actually, uh, had another meeting in a different city and was hoping to be done to be here and and talk to the commission, but he said if I don't make it on time, I would like for my comment to be read as part of the record. And that's why we're doing that one, not the other one. So, um, just so you know. So, this is from Koka Lockshman, a property owner from the area. My business partners and I are land owners within the city of Meny's economic development corridor along the 215. We have been inspired to further invest in Meny due to the city's

incredible vision and community engagement around the Meny Innovation District. This is a planning effort that makes Manify unique in the Inland Empire and sets the city apart and above others in preparing for the future. We are especially encouraged by the commitment to creating a vibrant forwardthinking environment that integrates places to work, live, and play. The innovation district will attract highquality businesses, employment opportunities, and amenities that benefit the entire community. We look forward to utilizing the city's bold vision for this specific plan and applying its principles to the land we own and intend to develop. This is an inflection point in the history of the city of Meny that we will look back on one day with immense pride for the leadership that the city staff and consultant team led with the community and the planning commission supported. It's sometimes difficult to envision the future and yet visionary cities can attract attract investment. If you don't shoot for the moon, you will miss every shot you don't take. And even if you miss, you may land among the stars. Men's future is bright. Meny has land, water, power, leadership, talent, and now a renewed forward planning vision that is influencing and inspiring the development community to value our opportunities and partnerships with the city in ways that could be transformative from an economic development and investment perspective. We commend the city of Meny P for pursuing ambitious and visionary planning and strongly encourage the planning commission to support this transformative effort. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you, Madame Clerk. Um, as as what was uh stated earlier by our assistant

city uh um attorney, this is a receive and file item. Randy, before you proceed, I I do have a couple comments I would like to Well, then let me finish the statement. So, this is a receive and file item and no action is required. Michael, thank you. Um, I just have a couple recommendations for council andor staff or Jeff. Um, currently in our development code section 9.140.03 allowed uses tabled or on the allowed uses table. Um, it lives gas stations. Um, currently they may not be located south of Scott Road. That is black and white. Um, I see the reasoning of this when the EDC was developed 12 years ago. Um, but with the Keller interchange, um, we got to allow gas stations there. There's no reason for Muretta to build a gas station, but we not build a gas station also. Um, that's a high high sales tax revenue. Um, so we need to keep that in mind to possibly uh change development code. I don't know if that'll change with the specific plan, but we need to look into that. That's why we're here. Um, also along Keller Road, uh, we need to make this retail, a hotel, restaurants, gas stations, like I just mentioned, high sales tax. Um, we'd be foolish to put a six-story building right there when we can have sales tax generations. Um, that building might be a maker space, no sales tax at all. Um, we have an interstate interchange there. We need to capitalize on that. Um, we'll also

capitalize on the Myrietta Hills specific plan. Those residents will be coming to our city um, mainly on the way home from work um, and spending their money in our town. Um, this will help rebalance what the Meny residents are spending in Mya at the Heritage Marketplace in Analope Square. And, uh, finally uh, we need a constraint map. Um it must be presented uh prior to moving. I mean we got another couple steps but that constraint map must be created. Um that includes roadway setbacks, easements, drainage, cal the CALR property, uh blue line streams, required landscaping, required parking, um along with max building coverage, um so we can get a more realistic view of what fits. And uh that's all. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. So sounds like you have something to say, Jeff. Uh, no. I mean, I I I can't get behind gas stations down there, but we do have a hotel and retail and and the rest of it down there precisely because of what you were just talking about. And to your point about um your ebike uh ebikes, ebike manufacturers and design fit great into maker spaces. We had one in our Google campus and so I I agree with you. They fit within certain parameters of of what we're talking about. Um, so, you know, I I think there's it's a push and pull on a lot of different factors here. Uh, but I, you know, I can't I can't argue with everything you're saying. I think I agree with you. Can I ask you an overarching question on this? It, in my mind, it's much easier to design one of these innovation districts in a San Francisco, San Jose, um, downtown Riverside, those kind of places.

Good point. We are midstream between Riverside and San Diego. We were kind of I don't think we'll ever be a huge downtown like that. So, how do you realistic? Do you see this development here? Just comment to I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but comment to your ex. Have you had any experience putting something like this in a non downtown or urban area? Sure. They exist. And and what What Meny is lacking is that employment opportunity right now. Um and while it may fit a an innovation district may fit in Mountain View or Sunnyvale or or so forth, it took me 10 years to get the Google plan approved through the city of Mountain View. It's not easy. Change is hard. We asked for a lot. We pushed we pushed height. We pushed density. So So Mountain View, just to to tag on that, I used to work in that area. That was was it not in the past? It was kind of the suburbs of San Jose at that time or was it was it the Bay Area? Yeah, the Bay Area operates in a strange way where there's no there there's no center to Silicon Valley. Everybody commutes every direction every day. Um but we were on the the bay side of the 101. So it felt like an industrial park. Okay. And the comments we got from commission and council often for years was, "Why would anybody live out there? Why would you put residential out there?" And it was because we had 20,000, you know, employees that wanted to live out there. And um and there's a huge housing shortage obviously in the Bay Area. See, to me that's a completely different dynamic%. So that's why I I hope something like this will work because we want it, but the question is will it? Yeah, I I

that's the overarching question in my mind. No, I mean the the questions asked by the last speaker were were really point on and and I there's a lot of credit there, but you are a city that is growing that is in my opinion uneconomically viable for the long-term future because your infrastructure is going to continue to cost more as you develop purely residential like you have over the last 15 years. And so let me pepper my comment what you said. Um I'm still for the district. I am still for it. I just wanted to get a realistic view because if we don't, we're going to end up with what the market wants to sell us now, which is garbage. Well, we know who's approached us and what they want to do down there. That's not what I want down there, i.e. warehouses and things like that. Keep doing what we're doing. We'll keep getting what we got. All right. Commissioner Commissioner uh Chairman Madrid just just for the record uh this was not a receiving file obviously this was uh an item to uh conduct the workshop you know to review and discuss the land use plunge which we've done and for us to uh get some of your comments which we will uh move forward and take to city council. Thank you director. I just want to thank all the commissioners wisdom and and really caring about this city and what the future of the city is going to look like and this is been a great start to getting there. Okay. So proudly ask the community development director, do you have any updates or comments? I do have one comment. Um well two comments. number one uh you know thank the commission obviously uh this is a uh

an item that's obviously important for the city and I know you everyone here is very passionate about manif and it wants nothing but the best of manif comment you've done you know we don't take it the wrong way we we we take it because you care and and you want the right thing and you want to to continue to prosper so for that thank you for the time you invest and all the time you put in and and sometimes we give a lot of material and you're always you're always willing and and and and able to u provide comments. So, thank you for that. The second comment is that I do want to uh inform the commission and announce that uh today is going it's going to be Doug Dornell's last planning commission [Music] at least for Manif uh he's actually uh retiring and his last day is going to be tomorrow and I want to publicly thank Mr. Darnell for uh the last six years he's uh put in with the city of Manify. Uh he has been uh an excellent employee and I've counted many times for him to help me out and he's always he's always delivered. So um I want to wish him nothing but the best. I think uh uh and I know at least one or maybe two of you have retired and have come back and done some things and uh uh I totally see him probably doing a little bit of that. But uh maybe doing it on on on his own time and or or at least putting in whatever time he wants to put in if he does decide to do that. But I wanted to say thank you uh Doug for everything and we're going to miss you and uh you've been here many times before the commission and I'm I'm sure they're uh they're going to miss you as well. So

thank you. Thank you Orlando. um appreciate that the kind words there and uh I'm going to really miss you too and um a lot of a lot of people here and it's been a pleasure working with the uh with the commission and the council and this is a great city and um a lot of exciting things that I've been fortunate enough to be involved in and more exciting things that um I will have to say goodbye to, but it's more great things after I leave. So, thank you all. Thank you. Oh, no. How how's that gonna affect the uh how's that going to affect the uh innovative district without you here? Well, I I they'll manage. It'll it'll be it'll be good. Thanks for your effort on that, Doug. And congratulations, Orlando, on your uh upgrade. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank God. All right. A lot of news today. Enjoy your retirement. It's You're going to spend probably time with your family, I hope. And Oh, absolutely. Enjoy. And I'm I'm glad I got to meet you and work with you. Yeah, me too. Thank you. We'll miss you. Congratulations, Orlando. Thank you for putting up with all the girrations on the planning commission. I know we are not an easy group. So, uh it's always fun to watch staff over there and your responses as we're bantering back and forth because I know thought some thoughts say yeah other ones what is he thinking? I know you you've put up with that. So, thank you and uh congratulations on attaining retirement. Who's now who's the public gonna yell at now? Darn Orlando. Orlando. Hey, Orlando. Uh do you have any updates on Kakoran?

We've um we've completed uh we've completed the demo work. I mean as you can see um um the buildings down. Uh we've uh demoed the commercial structure that was there. We took out the foundation. We graded the whole site. So uh the work has been completed. Um the contractors in the process of um removing the the equipment. What about the fence? Uh the the fence uh we're working with the property owner to um to figure that out. Uh there there are some uh probably areas that we may want to protect as well. So we're trying to figure out what what what areas we want to to maintain. Is the front portion of that it got the map got split, right? And so is the front retail going to move forward or No, right now we're looking at uh there's there's multiple um developers looking into it. They're doing due diligence, but we don't have any formal application. What about the boulders? What's holding that up? Edison, they're um they're almost they're almost done. I think they uh last time I checked they were ready to ask for uh CFOs on some of the apartments. Um they're they're finalizing um some some of the things. I don't think there's any uh issues with them. I think it's just part of the process they're going through because I'd like to see the uh that daycare center open as being our first. Yeah. So, Orlando, did you find out um what's going on um west of Popeye's on Newport of that curbon gutter that's being installed? No, I don't I don't have that information. I was uh checking with the CIP and you know uh they were out this last couple days. Okay. You know what I'm talking about,

Michael? Yeah, I do. Um in fact, I asked I asked Nick about that. Um, part of the uh conditions of approval for Popeyes was a right turn in to that property. Why? It's taken over a year for them to build it because they did the island. You mean a right turn lane? Right turn lane into the into the chicken. Um, the island was part of it along with that right turn lane. They're just now doing the right turn lane. Makes sense. All right. Would the uh planning commissioners like to request any future agenda items? Still waiting on that global traffic study, but oh well. So are you guys, huh? Um be Nick. Okay. So, I'll adjourn this meeting at 8:02 p.m.