Town Commission - workshop

It is six o'clock. It is September 9th. We are here for a town commission workshop on the budget. If town clerk Mr. Jones could please call the roll.

Mayor Allison Dennington.

Here.

Vice Mayor Terry Cronin is joining us via Teams. Commissioner Anna Butler. Here. Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey. Here. Town Manager Amory Smith. Here. Finance Manager Jennifer Kerr.

Here.

Police Chief Tim Zander.

Here.

Fire Chief Gavin Brown. Here. Public Works Director Tom Davis. Here. And Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present.

Okay. We will stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance. We will have a moment of silence and then I will read the civility pledge and then we will get down to business. I will read the civility pledge. The town commission and the staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, each other, and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues. We will avoid personal attacks. Okay, we will open it up to general public comment. If anyone has anything they'd like to come say, come on up, Mrs. Turk.

And, Mayor, just to let you know, when we get to the new business item, I do have public comments to be read for that item.

Okay. It is a little strange, though, because normally public comment, it's when we're going to vote, but budget, we don't. So it's a weird gap in our rule. But if there's no objection from the commission, then that's what we will do. And we'll be able to have public comment as well live.

OK.

So see no objection that we will do that.

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue.

I will read them, though. I think that's what the. Go ahead.

Those six bells toll after each of the six moments of silence during the September 11th remembrance ceremony each year in New York City. Each of the six bells represents the tragic time markers from September 11th, when the plane first hit the World Trade Center, when the plane crashed into Shanksville, Pennsylvania, when the plane hit the Pentagon, when the second plane hit the World Trade Center, when the first tower fell, and when the second tower fell. This year, an additional moment of silence will be observed at the conclusion of the reading of the names and will be a permanent part of the annual ceremony. The seventh bell recognition comes as more than 9,000 people have now died from 9-11-related illnesses. That is nearly three times the number killed on September 11th itself, according to the World Trade Center. Health Program. Last night, I had the honor of providing a post-training meal for approximately 40 beachside first responders. After multi-agency training coordinated by Chief Brown, agencies included were MBVFD Station 58, IFRS Station, and the Atlantic Fire Rescue Station 57, Brevard County Fire Rescue Station 64, and Station 56 in Indian Harbor Beach as part of a 9-11 week remembrance. I sponsored the meal in memory of my brother, past Chief Seth Stark, who passed away on September 14, 15 years ago. Fire Chaplain Kevin Diamond provided two PowerPoint presentations and shared the significance of each of the bells as part of the invocation before the meal and delivered a poignant prayer following the reading of the fireman's prayer. by MBVFD retired Lieutenant Steve Stewart. Last night reminded me of September 12th, when everyone not only in the USA but also around the world came together and united for the cause of defeating terrorist events like 9-11 from ever happening again. We vowed to never forget. on September 11th, Patriots Day. People are encouraged to participate in a day of service. The meal I provided to our beachside first responders was mine. Thank you to the town commission and town staff for your service to our community. I pray that tonight the town commission can unite and form consensus to move our community forward. Let's make it feel like September 12th again, showing unity for the common good. Thank you. Thank you.

Any other public comment? seeing none we will close public comment and i will turn it over to the town manager to present the budget item um really housekeeping though we did get um so there's the document that's online that's the packet and then we got last night um an additional yeah so i think it's a revised budget message so um there is and it may be referenced uh a revised budget message that is 16 pages and that will be as as we have done since i've we will supplement um online when the clerk is able to hopefully shortly that's correct there is also i provided a little memo it's just um i'm not gonna like add it i have one copy if anyone wanted to provide it to the uh manager and the finance um and to the town attorney It actually has some suggested draft policies that we could create to address one little issue that is in the budget related to the administrative assistant salary position discussion. I'm not going to add it to the record, but I'll give a copy of the clerk so that if somebody did want to see it, they could. It's still just a draft. And then I also requested the town clerk and the office clerk position descriptions. So if those are referenced at all or discussed tonight, those are on file, can be requested from the clerk, but I'm not going to ask to have those updated. So really the only update will be the budget message, one document. Okay. All right. Go ahead.

good evening mayor commissioners uh before we begin this workshop i just wanted to talk about something uh really quickly too many of us have lived through but rarely say out loud our meetings sometimes become abusive abusive to your colleagues to staff and sometimes to our residents. The damage is real. Anxiety, eroded confidence, worsening physical and mental health, and a sense of powerless to complete even the basic requirements. Here's what HR experts, psychologists, and the organization and workplace would suggest about responding to such situations. Number one, stay professional and speak up. I'm doing that right now. Number two, set firm boundaries. My staff and I are not required to take abuse, yelling, baseless accusations, or other public humiliation, and we will not do so. Number three, remove yourself from the situation. I have talked to my staff and they have been instructed to leave if meetings become untenable and unproductive. We will wait outside until composure is gained and civility is restored per your pledge. The officer on duty will let us know when we can return. And number four, give management clear standards to act upon. I'll be doing that going forward to encourage internal resolution before issues become lawsuits. Safe workplaces are stronger workplaces. Finally, I want to leave you with one last thought on this topic. What you tolerate defines your workplace. We cannot tolerate abuse. Thank you. I had sent out the message to everybody. I think last night we got the final edits and drafts. And this was per the discussion we had at the last meeting. uh commissioner reed had some additions that he wanted and requested and you know i've met with commissioner reed we have a regular meeting and i hope that i have captured everything that you had requested and it's appropriate but i just wanted to start there to make sure that there was nothing else that was missing from that Okay, this budget is at the 4.6 millage rate. Let's see. In the message, if you look at, what page is this, page five, we talk about the non-advalorem fire assessment study at the top of the page, and that's something that we have budgeted for. We also talk about enhancing our financial forecasting and the transparency, which also talks about putting together a reserve fund policy, a special fund policy, and a mid-year budget review. In addition, it talks about the general fund forecasting that we also have budgeted for this year. At the bottom of that page, we talk about the general obligation bond and how we're going to start the process for expenditures for that by undertaking a stormwater master plan and a comprehensive road improvements plan to prioritize and identify projects. There's a couple little updates to what we've undertaken because we've not completed projects there that are listed on the next page, page six. So I did make those edits. Page seven, I added information as requested about the potential property tax reform. Thank you, Mayor, for providing that request. Then I did add on the next couple pages, pages eight and nine, the pie charts for the fund expenditures and revenues. The next thing was under debt service, which is page 12. We talk about possible future debt service and we provided the information about the general obligation bond and the possible increase in taxes. The estimates came from PFM. And on the next page it talks about if the Homestead tax reform goes through, how much more it may cost residents. I think that's, those are all the edits that were requested from me. i just wanted to see if y'all had any questions or um if there's anything else that you would like to amend either with the message or with the uh budget itself um i i wanted to just ask and i've mentioned it to you but talk about the um so the admin assistant taking over the record scanning project

and whether under our existing policies and procedures, there's some provisions in chapter six and chapter nine that talk about extra compensation, and there is a state statute, I guess, where there's some issues. I believe that we have to have a written policy on this under the statute, and that under our current handbook, policies and procedures, the sort of scenario of what is happening may not be allowed, but that, Policy and procedure can be amended. It's not even a resolution. I mean, but although we could amend it by resolution, but Because the way that those are currently worded they it has to be a sort of budgeted and like a position description that's been approved by the Commission we don't have that and And then also just I do support and I'm happy that you have taken this over and come up with a sort of novel or idea and that we have somebody willing to do it and train and work on it because ultimately the idea is let's get these records scanned so that they're usable. We've been paying every year. since I think it was January or February 2023 was when the first payments started. But I worry that without having a baseline defined, something in writing, like right now, the baseline is we've had these many records scanned, you know, sort of this is where we are right now, and then this is where we have to go to completion, and then having some sort of scheduler estimate with deliverables of, you know, and timekeeping record-wise that, what is sounds like a good idea will just wind up being a continuation of what had happened before just not intentionally but that that may happen and so i am um i would like to see some sort of description of baseline where we are in the project because then we can you know and and uh sort of I don't want us to inadvertently trip ourselves up with fair FSLA standards and record keeping, time keeping for the extra compensation, and not realize the records trap that we may have walked into. in terms of how to account for this extra compensation. So that's why I did the little memo, and again, it was a draft, but at least it references the specific provision in our handbook now. It provides a written-up draft policy that we could adopt so we would be covered that's specific to this position. There's some information you'd need to fill in. and then some suggestions i even have you know here's a suggested time card so um but i do really think that we need that because i feel like it will protect her protect us in terms of tracking the compensation for it and then reporting back to the commission as to you know the progress of it And one suggestion, too, would be that you could have the project deliverables. And if something is done early, you could even do bonuses. But anyway, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that, of having something written up at least?

Yes. I understand that there was a scanning project previously, and it was to scan very, very old documents, like from 100 years ago, things that were falling apart. And that we had hired a company, was it MCCI or something like that?

Yes.

to do that. And that is something that the clerk is handling because they are the clerk's records. What Tricia and I probably should have made this clear, what Tricia is doing, we have a lot of other records, tons. We have like I just went upstairs with three rooms full of like old, old records. They're not alphabetized, nothing. So there's building department records with lots of plats, large maps or so. There's finance department records. And of course the clerk, there's some HR records or so. While we are sorting things out with MCCI, because they still have the 40 boxes, right? They still have that. That's kind of like, it's going on dual track. So that is still going, but very, albeit very, very slowly.

but is that phase one? Because I remember understanding from the original, because this had started right before I was even mayor, but then, and talking to the former clerk, that what they originally had was, it was basically three phases of scanning that were contemplated. Phase one was like sort of all the old minutes, you know, packets, these old, you know, sort of records, because, you know, it goes back to whenever, but minutes, so even minutes in the 70s or 80s or whatever. There was phase one. Phase two was the things that you're talking about, building department records, like all of the old. And then phase three was sort of like a other category of town records. What I understand was that in the three year we were supposed to have been done with scanning of phase one, phase two and phase three by about a year ago. But we got hung up. There were so many issues with the scanning of the like they had to rescan them of phase one. So we never scanned in phase two or phase three. that's right um so you're saying that this is different from that original project but i do i think maybe you're just saying since we never got past phase one you're essentially taking phase two and three and having it's her do it because that was building department records was phase two

Right, but there's also some other things, is that for the records for the clerk, they're using a different software. It goes into the JustFoya system. There's a whole different set of criteria.

Laserfiche. Huh? The Laserfiche system. JustFoya's public record. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay.

But they are related. MCCI, they're all like, they're subsidiaries of each other.

Yeah, but like, they're different verticals in that company.

But that all has to do with the clerk's records.

Okay, so the clerk is still handling parts of this. Yes, the clerk is still. Okay, that was not clear.

That is still under his purview. Okay. What the office manager, or she's still the administrative assistant, what she will be doing is, and she's already started, is organizing and scanning, starting with the building department, because as you may know, there is now an open portal, a public portal for people to look at records. But if you don't have the records there, how are you going to look at them? So we realized that we needed to get that up and and going very quickly And that was something that the joint legislative auditors had recommended to us, you know to get that public portal up but there's nothing really on the portal so we need to start scanning and

Well, I'm glad you got that opened up. Yeah. Yeah. So it could have been. Yeah.

So that's why we had to dual track it is because there was different purposes. And this purpose became very important, especially to the auditors that we have this, you know, these records available. Okay. Therefore, we have Tricia who is scanning it, but that goes in a BS&A. Okay. It's a different system.

Ah, okay. So that does make a bit more sense then.

Because one of the, I thought it was taking basically a project that was originally under a clerk and putting it under, you know, without... Well, I mean, technically we've got to scan all of these documents, but it's a different, there's a whole different dynamic and there's a whole different system and everything else we have to do. They're a little more particular. These other ones, you know, we can put into the BS&A system, which more of us have access to. I think only the clerk has access to Laserfiche. So... want to just make sure that just because we had a hiccup there that we're not slowing down the rest of the process and also since it's something that the legislative auditors pointed out to us early on that we need to get up and running so I didn't want to wait for the audit report for that to come out I just wanted to get starting that makes sense well what it still stands that I still think we ought to at least have a sort of baseline and definition of the project because as I understand it it's not an indefinite sort of

increase of duties and salary it's sort of a specific project based um and then whenever that is done like it would go back to some normal you know what we don't want to do is never define it and have it be indefinite because it's quite a bump up um and under under i think under the law you can do something like this but you have to have a written scope and definition and it cannot exceed six months And then you can have it go a second six months, like basically on the manager approval, but you do have to have some written, and it would require some modification of our existing policies and procedure because our existing employment policy appears to not allow this under the way we have it written.

Well, she's not getting a bump up just for that project. That's gonna be a good part of it, but she's also taking on some executive duties for me as far as getting certain things scheduled, getting training scheduled for the staff. There's a lot more to that. And that's why, you know, we changed her position from like a receptionist to an executive assistant. Okay. It's not a temporary bump up. So it's not a temporary bump up, correct.

But the project part of it is, because what I understand, I was looking at the book, it looks like there was two different amounts. There's like a, basically a position bump up. She's not just going to be the office sort of clerk. It's more of an executive assistant. um that there's a bump up related to that that's sort of indefinite uh because it's yeah and then there is a project sort of management but i could be wrong so tell me that that's also just related to that that would not be indefinite that that's under the duties of what she's going to be doing as my executive assistant oh so that is essentially it's a promotion yes it is a promotion for her to do that and i will project manage that

and make sure that that work is moving along steadily and i will parse that out into different phases okay i just got a chance today to go upstairs to the other document rooms and see how much more there is up there and so it's going to take Just to do that, if it's one person, it's going to take probably a couple years. Okay.

So then question, because that does change some of this then. Okay. Because I did not clearly, I misapprehended that. So you gave me the office clerk and then the town clerk position descriptions. Yes. is there a pre-approved position description with duties and base salary for this position that you are basically bumping her up to if not we we would need to have that written up okay um we have a draft of it okay yeah jenny and i are just parsing that out okay because that covers the policy then that if there's a written description then okay and i don't have to worry about some of the other but will would you have that in conjunction with the actual budget yes pass it great we will have that for that okay and that addresses that thank you okay sorry i misunderstood no no no i i'm sorry i didn't make it clear okay all right that was my anybody else Go ahead.

Sure. So the comment on the updated budget message. So thank you for meeting with me. And the items that we discussed and were in there are captured in there now. So I'm satisfied with that at this point.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you for being so clear on everything and following and thank you commissioner Reid for bringing them to to the attention of the manager and thank you for executing you in the finance director.

So the package that we got for the budget for tonight to 4.6 point that is the same package that we got but last week, that's the same, it's the same budget, same numbers, okay. All right. All right, so for, in addition to the updates we've made in the budget message there, the other part of this, the actual budget aspect of it that I'm interested in seeing is that, so a large part of how A large part of how the 4.6 budget came about is that we're really not funding stormwater. We're funding it at a much less level, right? So we're really not significantly funding stormwater. So that's how... And this is my take on it, how this nest of this budget is held together. So with that, we have a bond referendum to be voted on, right? And so the whole stormwater aspect hinges on voters approving that. at the polls here. Stormwater is a pretty large one of the top two probably concerns areas in working in the town. So I would like to see us still be doing funding of stormwater. And I believe there is a path forward on that in this budget. And that largely lies in the Special Revenue Fund 172. where something, make sure I'm looking at the right package here. This is page 40, 45 in the package for tonight. If I'm looking at the right one, 099. ALL RIGHT, SO IT'S SHOWING A PROJECTED ENDING CASH BALANCE AT THE END OF FISCAL YEAR 27 OF 192,263.12 SITTING IN THE PARKING REVENUE IN THIS SPECIAL FUND AT THE END OF THE YEAR. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT MONEY OR A GOOD PORTION OF THAT balance be allocated to stormwater fund 341. So that is something that could be done without perturbing anything really else in the budget in terms of making any adjustments. So you could do it And how you choose to do that, I mean, to me, there's two ways to do it. Either it goes to the general fund, and then we just show a transfer from the general fund to 341, or if you can go straight from 172 to 341, whatever makes sense for the accounting aspect of it. So if that's the number, the 192, is the current projected cash balance, I thought it was something, a different number last time. But anyway, so yeah, it seems like we should be able to stick $175,000 over into stormwater. That puts us very close to, And if the budget, if the bond does not pass and we have some, we can still have a path forward to doing some stormwater work. It almost gets us the basin one completion amount. And additionally is that every dollar, so that these are, this is parking money, so it didn't come out of taxpayer money. So this, every one of these dollars that we can have in there is money that we don't have to borrow under the bond. Even if the bond comes through, this is an amount of money that we don't have to borrow under the bond and amount of money that we're not paying interest on. UNDER UNDER THE BOND SO TO TO GET TO THE THE 4.6 MILL AND AND THE BUDGET I'M KIND OF LOOKING TO SEE THAT THAT HAPPEN SO BEING A WORKSHOP I MEAN WE'RE NOT VOTING BUT IF WE WANT TO GET THE COMMISSION WANTS TO give their consensus or view on that, then that's why we're here tonight.

I'd be in favor of that. Anybody else want to speak or opine?

I think Terry is raising his hand.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, just speak freely, Vice Mayor.

Thank you so much. It's a neat idea, and it's kind of like a neat safety policy if the bond didn't go through. Just to educate me, the funds from the parking have certain restrictions on them. Can we go over what those are?

Are you asking me, or who are you asking?

I'm not, I'm not. I'M NOT SITTING WITH YOU, SO I CAN'T REALLY LOOK YOU EYE TO EYE, BUT... ALL RIGHT, YEAH, SO...

I'D LOVE TO MAYBE... THE FINANCE, SHE'S READY TO SPEAK TO EXPLAIN. GO AHEAD.

OKAY, THANK YOU. HI, VICE MAYOR. THIS IS JENNIFER. THE MONEY IN THE FUND FOR 172, WHICH IS OCEAN PARK PARKING, According to the state is the money has to be used for the benefit of all who put into that So it's not the residents of the town. It's the benefit of the Entirety of the community the the civilians it could be people in the city of Melbourne it could be people in Orlando it's whoever's paying for the parking there that has to benefit it has to be a benefit for them and

And they, was that a question that you would pose to them? Yes, and it's a response they gave me. And you got a good written response. Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Correct. It can't just benefit the people in the town. It has to benefit everybody is basically what they're saying. And they are saying the commission can make that decision as to if they think that's what they're doing.

Yeah. Well, I do think stormwater, though, benefits the I mean, because, you know, if that area floods, I mean, you know, I mean, it might be that we would say that that has to be if the money is going into stormwater, then we might need to allocate it to stormwater in the vicinity. I don't know, but. But I do think stormwater, I mean, we're such a small, 1.4 square miles, when we have a huge rain event and things flood, it does, I mean, it's the whole area, but I don't know.

I'm confused by historically since I've been on the dais. There's been so much discussion about allocation of the money and the terms being correct and it's for a road has to be for road and if it's for someone has before stormwater and everything's been so you know transparency transparency And my feeling on what continues to be suggested by this is now we don't actually adhere to that. train of thought at all. So I'm confused where this change has happened because it feels that this is, whenever it's historically been discussed, it was always, oh, it's muddying the waters, no, no, no, that's not, that belongs here, this belongs here. And now all of a sudden, nope, let's just take it.

well i do think that like so when you have a bond you it is very restricted there's like a certain set of rules where things are really restricted or when you have an assessment that goes against property itself so like if we have the stormwater assessment that's that does have to be restricted if we did but that wasn't what i was talking about i know but but this is sort of fees these aren't assessed against land it's basically just a fee to be able to park on an area so it is a BIT DIFFERENT FROM ALL OF THE RESTRICTED DIFFERENT LEVELS OR TYPES OF RESTRICTED FUNDS, WHICH I KNOW THE FINANCE MANAGER UNDERSTANDS REALLY WELL.

WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS You can't utilize difference in semantics when it benefits you and when it doesn't benefit you. Do you know what I'm saying? I would agree. Because before, when we had the semantics conversation slash kind of discussion, nope, semantics doesn't matter. It is what it is. It's black and white. Now semantics, now we're going to muddy it. And I have a problem with that. And I want to know why the change. And I don't understand.

would love to read that the email that you had if um just to be able to understand it but i do think that somebody said that they checked some of the other cities coco india atlantic that have parking that they do use a portion of their money specific to that area and then they do roll it over so there's a bunch of other cities that do similar but i mean i i definitely think that we would need to have at least a we like a portion of it that would go to that area but

Well, that's why initially we had budgeted some of the funding there for partial salaries as opposed to a project geographically somewhere else is because you do have water rescue, fire, police, you know, helping out. And so we had done that. and we and it's very defendable and explainable and then the money we would use for salaries in the general fund we had put that towards you know other things which could be storm water um i'm ryan unfortunately is at another meeting so he couldn't make it um but i'm not sure that you know um I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S GOING TO BE, IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A GEOGRAPHICAL, YOU KNOW, DISTINCTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WELL, THIS IS GOING TO BE IN BASIN ONE. THIS IS NOWHERE NEAR OR THAT PROJECT MAY NOT BE NEAR OCEAN PARK. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. BUT I CAN JUST SEE IF I CAN CONTACT HIM AND SEE IF I CAN FIND OUT.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. BUT I DO KNOW, THOUGH, THAT I THOUGHT THAT HE WAS, AND SID, CORRECT, I MEAN, MR. JONES, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THOUGHT HE WAS DRAFTING A POLICY FOR NEXT WEEK'S MEETING FOR PARKING.

uh yes i believe that is the he was gonna propose an ordinance related to that um i haven't received it yet but he told me that would be on the agenda okay yeah you just it was on there right okay i was like i remembered putting it on there so there we will apparently have some sort of form of a draft from the town attorney on some policies on some of these funds so he is working on that so hopefully that will help elucidate us

Right. And I know it just seems there was a series of emails that went back and forth that talked about the restrictions and some of the deed language, which I forwarded to you all, I think, last month. So you all have that information. That was for Reichman Park, not for Ocean, just to be clear. But both these have a similar kind of issue with the parking funds. So it really is... I think left up to the commission to decide, you know, moving forward, how you want to utilize that money, what kind of rules or restrictions based on, you know, what's available. I think what Jenny had from Ocean Park was pretty, was pretty descriptive as far as that, you know, it's really up to the town, to the commission, to decide, you know, what they think is the best use for the community, you know, to serving the community.

So they said that it had to be tied to it, but they also sort of said, well, we're not going to look behind the commission's decision, essentially.

Well, they don't use words like that, but, um, no, they just said that it has to be in the best interest of the public, but it's the decision of the commission. If that's the best interest for the public, not the residents, the public.

Well, I mean, I know like, even with the assessment, the fire assessment, if we eventually do a fire assessment. So there are some things that like that are in our fire department, but that are not. but you have to really like segregate those. So like the Marine Rescue Unit would not we wouldn't be able to use fire assessment money for the Marine Rescue Unit, but that would be something where we could say, OK, we'll be able to segregate that out and we would say a portion of parking funds can go to fund that, whereas the fire assessment goes to fund all the things you're allowed to with fire. So something that we're probably gonna have to be thinking about in the future anyway if the fire assessment passes, what are things that can be funded through the fire assessment? What are things that we have to be really careful to account for outside of it?

So I'm looking at an email that was provided to me when I was asking about this earlier here. And this is an email from an individual at the, uh, the state Florida department of, uh, state, um, to, uh, the town manager. And it says per our conversation and upon review of the lease agreement, there are no conditions in the lease that prohibit or require any funds generated by using the land be used in any particular manner.

Okay, so no conditions. That's pretty clear.

Yeah, that email was before I asked and got another series of emails, so I can't answer to that one.

Could you just provide those? Of course, yeah.

Just for the record, it's the previous town manager they were writing to, not to me.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, right.

Okay, is there more discussion or questions on that? I mean, I think it's really... Go ahead.

Hey, thank you so much. So, you know, I think it's always good to have a backup plan. I think Commissioner Reed's thinking ahead, you know, if we don't vote for that bond, we're going to be in a lurch for stormwater. We're also gonna be an alert if the voters vote out property tax. That's another good reason why we should not go back to the rollback rate and keep our millage the same, because we've gotta be prepared that something might go wrong in the future. So covering our bases, I think is a big responsibility for why we're here, why we're doing this and why we're having this discussion. So I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this.

I have a question. Were you able, you had said last week that you would get it this week, you didn't know when, but were you able to get the, there's two different, you have them or whatever, they get updated, but the $500 or more sort of capital items inventory and then the $5,000 or more?

No, I've been preparing for this, and we were off Monday, and yesterday I did payroll. Sometimes that takes two days, so I got it done in one day.

But do you think you'll be able to get them by Friday? You said this week. I'm hoping. Okay.

I'm hoping, yes.

Because I understand they're just things that are in the system that get printed out.

We have to get ready for next week also. We have the next meeting, and we also have a budget hearing. And as far as the work program goes, I have asked Jenny to prioritize that over everything else because by law we have to get that done.

You and I had met, I think, August 16th. I requested it then, and you had told her to get it, and then I've requested it several times. And then last week she said she would get it this week. But now it sounds like I won't get it this week either.

I'm not saying that. I don't know. It depends on what else comes up. This workshop came up in a couple of days and we had to prepare for it.

As I understand, it literally exists and it just needs to be printed. Perhaps the reason why... there's pushback to printing it is because it exists, but it's not been updated in a while, and so it's stale? No, it's not that.

It's just purely we have a lot of things going on, and Jenny and I are the only ones that can work on the budget. There's nobody else who can put that high level together.

And nobody could just find that document and print it?

I don't know if it's a document or what exactly it is. It might be in different departments, and so somebody would have to go to each. It's in BS&A.

It's in BSNA. It's a thing. Yeah.

Okay. But I'm just saying.

Because I've gotten it before. Okay.

But I'm just saying that right now is we're trying to get the budget done and that's the priority for the work program. But we will try to get it to you as soon as possible.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, they are inundated. I was at the South Beaches Coalition meeting last night. No other beachside municipality has as many workshops on the budget. They have one at the most. So what the two of you are doing is excessive, and our patience is necessary right now.

but we i mean we've had this bsna for a while but it's never been used before for the budget function going forward next year it's going to be is what i've been told we've been always using these sort of excel and so that's sort of the the problem historically why it's not it's not the commission's fault it's more of just the antiquated use of Historically, the Excel and not the BS&A budget software that we have and pay for but haven't utilized in the past and are getting trained to utilize going forward next year, correct? Correct. Yeah, so I mean, that's not our fault. I'm not trying to place a claim.

I'm just standing with that.

Yeah, but there's also just the volume of work. Yes, it's an antiquated system, but each week, I think, for the past... Clerk Jones, was it like six weeks or something like that every single week we've had a meeting or workshop?

Yeah, this is week six. So with the budget hearing next week, that'll be seven weeks in a row where we've had at least one meeting every week.

for the Commission not including other boards and J lack has been here through most of it oh yes yes mm-hmm my other just sort of standing complaint though is also going to be that none of these have the mandatory minimum requirements that are code chapter 15, section 15 require and that the town attorney did opine orally that are required, but still, I don't know if the final document's gonna have these required columns or not, but.

We did check with him and he said that it complied with that.

No, they don't. I mean, you literally read, there's nothing that, there's this very specific language in section 15 and well i mean i don't know what i don't know what else i mean is it just the names of the columns that yeah i mean for one it's because the uh the actual is different from the odd the later audited so the fiscal year 25 is the last audited budget and it says that you have to have the so it's essentially when they go through because they made they in the budget there was i think there was like maybe 200 000 of things that had to be reconciled and changed like It's not what you actually spent, it's what you actually spent and how the auditor turned, like I said, you have to reclassify this, this, and this, that. Yeah. Okay, so then just change the column to reflect and use that exact phraseology. It should read what section 15 says because, yeah. I apologize, I don't know what section 15 says. It's in the, it's, it's.

What does that word say?

You want me to read it to you, okay.

No, just tell me the word and I'll crack it.

No, no, no, it's a set of language, it's language. The manager has it and it's, it's in your, it's in our town code, it's section 15 . and it's the mandatory minimum requirements, and it says, let's see, and it's for proposed revenue and expenditures, it requires, I mean, it's like an entire page, because there's A, B, and different ones apply to different ones, so read the memo that I provided. It's got for each, like for expenditures, it's supposed to have this, and it tells you which section, whether it's C or D,

And you've run this by our attorney? Yes. And he said it complied in writing. So he has signed off on it, basically?

Yes. And if you want us to change actual to audited or if it's the names of the columns, that is.

Yeah, because here's the thing. If that is what they actually are, great. I mean I just what I want is I want to track the language of the requirement because later on you know somebody you could say oh well that's not what it actually is but if we certify we track the language and you say yes that is what it is then you know somebody can't later say oh well that's you know it we didn't we didn't do that it says actual it doesn't say that language that's not what it is like track the language and then I'm good on the columns so it's just the column names that yeah make the yeah track the leg so if y'all are saying all of the columns are there as required then label the columns because they are very specific as to what the different columns are

Okay, I mean, we can look at that. These are the names you all have been using.

I gave you that example. It's like, here's what the column, here's what they would look like, and here's what they would be.

You're talking about the columns on the budget report, is that correct? The ones that have been the same way for a decade, I think we talked about? Is that correct? We've been doing it.

In parallel columns opposite the several items of proposed expenditures, there's different language for revenue or for expenditures, but this one is 15-4D. In parallel columns opposite the several items of proposed expenditures, there shall be placed an amount of each line item in the approved budget of the previous fiscal year, the amount, then it has common, so that's one, that's one column. So it's about parallel columns. Then column two, the amount of each item actually expended during such year to the time of preparing the budget, that's parallel column number two, plus estimated expenditure for the remainder of the fiscal year, and the expenditures for the last completed fiscal year as determined by the independent certified public accountant and an accepted financial statement so there weren't a lot of changes in the 2025 i think there was like maybe they had a little list of five different things from the financial things that had to be reclassified so those reclassifications would change would would change potentially what that actual was There was one, I want to say it was like 100,000. It was like this was booked as this, but it really needed to go into here. So track the language of the columns.

I'll just change it to audited. Yeah. Audited actuals. Because it is actual. It is the audited.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I mean, and truthfully, next year on the budget, there's gonna have to be like a lot more columns and it will be mandatory by the state. So it's gonna have to sort of change anyway to be expansive because you'll have to have four years back. so this is already going to have to change next year anyway but i i and i would suggest that you guys can change by ordinance that provision to be like here's the four here's the four columns under town code that you have to have or whatever so it's clear okay are we prepared to have public comment um i don't know i mean anybody comment madam mayor

If the staff is able to make those changes that you recommended, would you be in support of this budget and vote for it?

I mean, no, I haven't. I've been waiting for these things that I was told last. It was like, okay, we'll get them to you this week. And now I'm being told, you know. So, no, I mean, I think that we could cut taxes. I actually went online just because I was curious. You know, these cow she vets and different things, they actually can give you a fairly – They're running that, like, there's less than 25% chance that the property tax amendment's going to pass. They think it's not going to pass. So, you know, I mean, and again, we still have the FEMA money. I feel like we need to figure that out. If that money was put into the budget, we would have plenty of money. Because this is money we've already spent and should be getting back.

We do not have the FEMA money.

This is money that we spent that is obligated that we should be getting back. Which we do not have, but. So no, I mean, I, you know, I would vote.

No matter what, you know, we're,

we're basically negotiating this budget and you you started the conversation saying you weren't going to vote for a budget i'm still in i'm still entitled to ask for information i mean like to ask that the budget itself comply with the mandatory minimum requirements of our town chart code i mean like even if i'm you know i mean how can i even say what i'm going to vote for if

Keep getting, you know, getting wouldn't. And I was just thinking if they made all these changes that you're requesting,

it might change your mind but it sounds like it's not what i have always said was get the budget in the proper format so we can actually look at the things you know like we budgeted but what did we actually spend you know and like because then we get a clear picture and that's the whole point of the budget process is for the public and for us to actually forecast and you know the entirety of the time i've been on this commission we've never gotten budget information that was forthcoming it's always been a fight but that's how do you forecast without it so if we got more information yeah I mean there's things that I would be I would be like line item like okay I would be willing to go above you know but I but I've still never even gotten just the basic things that I asked for every time to even be able to understand so okay

SO I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE FUND 172. SO WE APPARENTLY HAVE CONFLICTING DIRECTION HERE. WE HAVE EMAILS THAT SAY DIFFERENT THINGS. I'D LIKE TO SEE US GO BACK AND GET AN UPDATED OPINION ON THAT. AND AS WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO ESTABLISH OUR POLICIES FOR THE SPECIAL FUNDS, WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW THAT IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE POLICY. SO I THOUGHT I HAD THAT EMAIL YOU TALKED ABOUT. I THOUGHT I HAD ALL THE INFORMATION. THIS IS RELATED TO THIS. TO ME, WE HAVE A CONFLICT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE STATE ON THAT.

If you have it, the updated one, could you read it, Ms. Smith, and then you'll provide that to us or provide it in the packet for whenever this comes back up? Yeah. For the public, too. That way they don't have to make a public records request for this email we keep talking about.

Is this the one?

Her name was Megan, Maggie, something like that. I sent it to you. I can't remember her name. And I just sent it again when I found it like a week or two ago. Hold it back up. It's an M. I can't think of her name. I'm sorry. But I have it.

While she's looking for that, I have a very basic question. I think you probably answer it. I'm almost embarrassed it's kind of basic. So I always notice when we do the revenue, there's always this like 97%. And I assume it's because you have to budget for your revenue, and probably no city collects 100% of their, there's always some. Is 97, is that sort of like a standard number that most cities pick? Is there, does that?

Yeah, you can't pick higher than that.

Okay, so do you know what generally is our, I mean, is it usually around 97, or is it 98, 99 sometimes? I mean, I imagine in comparison to some other cities, ours is probably pretty high, like, but do you have any idea i could go back and show you sometimes we get we get more than 100 yeah it just depends yeah do you happen to know just with last year in terms of what we budgeted because it's always 97 i had a resident ask me this and i was like honestly i i don't know i think it's something every city does but um do you happen to know what last year did we collect 97 because it does seem like at least for us, small town, that we probably collect more than 97% or we do pretty well? We do well, it's in the- There's a cushion there then.

It's in my finance report every month. It shows what we've collected for that every single month.

Because we would generally only budget for 97% of the revenue, but if consistently we do receive 98, 99, 100% of it, even though we don't budget for it because you never know, but it is kind of a padded amount that we... Right, but we can't... I know, we can't... You can't budget 100%. But in our minds, we could at least consider that. I mean, it's almost...

So while she's trying to find an email, do you want to do the public comment?

Yeah, go ahead. We'll open it up to public comment.

Did you all want to read the ones that were submitted? That's what I meant, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Will you have, do you have those if you'll pass them up and I'll read them?

Yeah, okay, you'll read them at the end. I can't find it.

Yeah, I feel like we give precedence to the people that are in the audience.

Joyce Barton, 322 Third Avenue. I really don't want to comment right now. But I'm going to. It's unbelievable to me that these budget workshops are so tremendously unproductive. It's, once again, just the mayor asking endless questions for something that, in my opinion, she's never going to understand anyway, in one way, shape, or another. So it is just creating havoc as usual and raising unnecessary questions of the integrity of our staff and the processes that has sustained this town up to now. And so it's a stage and we're all tired of it. ONE OTHER THING I DO WANT TO SAY, I HAVE TWO WHOLE MINUTES LEFT. THIS IS GREAT. COMMISSIONER REED, I REALLY FEEL LIKE THE PARKING FUND MONEY IS Again, forgive me for being so brutally honest, a toy for you to play with. I feel like you're holding it hostage for your vote and you should consider the history for real and the ramifications of those funds and how it affects the parks and the things that happen in town. It's not just because that money's there that wasn't there four or five years ago doesn't mean that it's up for grabs. or as Commissioner Butler pointed out, that now you're gonna try and grab it and put it somewhere else. We've talked about this for months now, and you're not letting go of it, and I don't think it's right. I just wish and hope, which is not a plan, for you to look at things realistically and move forward. As far as the tax cut, I really feel like the mayor wants to go out with a bang of accomplishing something during her term. And now it seems that, um, it's going to be this tax cut. And I do remember when, um, she was just a resident coming in and announcing to everyone that she owns four properties in town. So perhaps there's a little personal interest in wanting a tax cut. So I want that to be said on the record, that it is a possibility, that that is what's driving this contention, this constant contention. Thank you.

I take issue to you acting like I've done something improper. You might want to look back at when you voted on short-term rentals, and I'm pretty sure you did not disclose your conflict. I don't think we debate with public comment. No, no, no, your comment is over, ma'am.

um no if you're going to engage conversation with me mayor then i can speak back to you no you cannot oh yes i can officer no it's not something to escort me out for please if you are going to if you are going to address me this is your warning if you are going to address me if you are going to address

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I agree with some of the discussion here tonight in regards to having a Plan B for stormwater. I think the points that Commissioner Reid brought up are well said. But at this point, I would like to hear from the fire department, the public works department, and the police department, any questions you have for them, that was my point last week about not completing the budget process in view. So if you could please focus on that, I think that we'd move further ahead. There was one more thing. Hopefully I'll think of it before the three minutes is up. Is it possible, I would ask you to consider if you are at a point that you could get, you have a majority vote that you voted last week in the tentative budget hearing for millage and budget. I'm asking if you can find a way to get to the super majority of four votes to adopt the millage and then the accompanying budget. And then once we get through this horrific process that's gone on seven weeks, IF THE TOWN COMMISSION COULD, AFTER THE BUDGET IS PASSED AND ALL THE THINGS ARE DONE AND THE PRESSURE IS OFF THE MANAGER AND THE FINANCE DIRECTOR WHO HAVE DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB BEING RESPONSIVE, THEN TAKE A LOOK AT IT. and you can amend your budget any time during the year you can amend it multiple times during the year and and the points that have been made are well made they're they're they're relevant they're important um i don't want to discount what anybody has said i've heard but you know both people who are still possibly dissenting bring up good points but please let's try to find consensus tonight Let's make it like September 12th where everybody's working together for the common good, and then work out the fine details in a budget amendment if you need to do it. I think you should be really close, and you know I'm a very strong advocate of the 4.6 millage rate. I've talked to close to 30 people now, some of who I think have sent in emails in support of that. um our town is a great town we provide great municipal services for our community and our property values are up people do want to be in melbourne beach because it's a desirable community and like i said one mile north my municipal services taxes would be doubled And we will never catch up with the rate that they have with the legislative restrictions that are going to be put into place. So please, for the sake of everybody here in this community, you've done, I feel you've done your due diligence with bringing up points. Please find consensus tonight so that on the budget next week, the vote that we have a super majority. Thank you.

For what it's worth, after last week, because I was worried about the different votes and stuff, I talked to the town attorney. He was correct on the budget vote requirement. And so just so that everybody knows, you have to pass the final millage first before you pass the final budget. And there are two separate votes. And the final millage vote, if you go anything over rollback, it requires four votes. But if that passes, but it's the second vote, so if that passes at 4.6 with the required four votes, the very next vote Even it does not require four votes. So potentially Commissioner Reid I mean if there are any things that you have issues with your your your power to negotiate is only when you on that vote for 4.6 because basically they only need three votes to pass whatever they want in the budget in any way whatsoever so just it's you know because it it's strange because it's still the 4.6 but the budget vote is separate it only requires a majority would only require three it's that earlier 4.6 vote where they would have there has to be four votes after that they could they only need three votes to do with that 4.6 whatever they want thank you for that clarification there

I just like and I didn't tell the town attorney you were correct it's a little it is confusing I would like to say it's not they have it's we five people on the commission as a body need to approve the millage and budget so it's me thank you um

I mean, I had a nice meeting with Mrs. Stark, and there was a bunch of stuff that we talked about, and there was one, a couple ideas that she had said, yeah, that's a good idea, and she had mentioned she would talk to you, but I do hope that an idea for the fire department that I think that would be great to do, because we're gonna be having some fire assessment study, if the property tax amendment passes, because I think a lot of things, you know, we'll know in November, right? I would suggest that it would be a great thing for the town to use the Riverside Stopside Survey as an informal way of gauging how a fire assessment might do, like early on. So it was a very inexpensive survey. I mean, I don't know, it cost a thousand, you know. It was a survey that went out to every resident. There's a little card. And the great thing about that is it's not a ballot measure, so you can be, there's no restrictions on sort of the language, right? So you could send out something like that that phrase it how you want to get kind of an idea of how people may vote on the FHIR assessment. I mean, if the Property Tax Amendment doesn't pass, maybe not be an issue, but you'll know in November if it does, and my suggestion would be to go ahead and do something like that, because it'll give you an idea of what the, you know, you may get 80% or yes, or you may get a real close 50-50, you'll have an idea either way of maybe information or messaging that you need to get out.

Okay, I did find the email, thanks to. Okay, yeah, would you like to read that? It says, hi, Jennifer, I've confirmed that Chase was correct in his statement that there are no conditions in the lease that prohibit or require any funds generated by using the land to be used in a particular manner. Pursuant to paragraph 18-2.0182, Florida Administrative Code, all uplands shall be managed in a manner that will provide the greatest combination of benefits to the general public. additionally equitable compensation will be required if the use of uplands will limit or preempt use by the general public so i believe it's appropriate that the parking fee be required for everyone oh okay so that's a little bit different i think than and that seems like it's more in line it seems to me with with

goes on there's more okay it goes on i asked if it was i specifically asked about the money um i have three public comments i'm gonna read i may go ahead and read those now so don't forget Because we are in public on it when they go after that I responded and said also does this mean that all revenue from the paid parking be put back into the park as well that is the clarification we are looking for. And she said no there are no conditions in the lease that require revenue be put back into the park. And I said. In reading this 18 to whatever that the 2.018 to all upland shall be managed in a manner that will provide the greatest combination of benefits to the general public would generating money in ocean Park from the paid parking and then taking that money out of the park to pay for a sea wall falling in at 6th Avenue or stormwater repairs not be the greatest combination of benefits to the general public question mark. Response was that is for the town of Melbourne Beach as leesy and manager of the land to decide So that's what I said She said it it's for the greater public and it's up to the Commission to decide if that is for the greater public But I mean essentially if you put it into general fund Like whatever's left over and then you and then you've got general fund and then you can put things I mean, it's not I was just explaining what she had said is your read would you like to I?

I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE ATTORNEY'S READ ON THAT VERBIAGE.

I'M GOING TO READ THESE PUBLIC COMMENTS. DON'T FORGET. THIS IS FROM BRUCE PICKETT. SENT WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 930. PLEASE READ THIS AT THE COMMISSION MEETING. Bruce Pickett, 1501 Oak Street. We are currently out of town with a family emergency but are able to watch the meetings online. I was encouraged while watching last week's meeting to see that Commissioner Reed seemed amenable to the 4.6 millage rate with some adjustments. I was also encouraged that the other commissioners were accepting of his suggestions. Compromise can be a good thing. I encourage, request, even implore the commission to approve the 4.6 millage rate. This will set our town up to be successful and sustainable for the next year. The next year brings some possible changes with the proposed state homestead legislation and the general obligation bond being on the ballot this fall. At this time, we don't know the result of either of those ballot votes. To use the rollback rate will be handicapping the town for at least the next year, possibly for future years if the state continues to look at rollback rates going forward. As Melbourne Beach already has the lowest millage rate in the county and prices of everything continue to rise, we are getting further and further from being able to afford the level of services that have been provided. Already, we won't be able to afford the major stormwater repairs without either the general obligation bond passing or going into the reserve fund. Also, the road paving and other infrastructure repairs will need to be addressed. I have complete confidence our town manager and finance to create, manage, and administer the budget in a fiscally responsible manner. Let's give them the tools that they need to support our town or our quality of life here in Melbourne Beach. Again, I encourage, request, and implore you to approve the 4.6 rate. Thank you. And this is from Cindy... corn 809 atlantic street dear mayor and council members i am currently out of town and unable to attend tonight's budget meeting however i respectfully request that this email be formally read into the record as my statement in support of the proposed 4.6 millage rate and in opposition to the rollback rate please confirm receipt of this email this is a formal request that you vote to approve the 4.6 millage rate and reject the rollback rate at the upcoming final budget I am concerned about how the town will be able to adequately fund essential services and address the needs of our community if the rollback rate is adopted. Even at 4.6 mills, Melbourne Beach would remain at the lowest millage rate in the county. Given that, I would like to understand the rationale for reducing the rate even further. How can we realistically fund the town's needs while continuing to maintain services and plan responsibly for the future? I am also concerned about the precedent this was set for future budgets. If we adopt a rollback rate this year, it establishes an even lower baseline for future budget discussions. Another rollback in subsequent year could push the millage rate lower still, further limiting the town's ability to generate the revenue necessary to meet its responsibilities. I strongly encourage the council to take a long-term fiscally responsible approach and approve the 4.6 millage rate rather than the rollback. Thank you for your consideration. Again, please confirm this email has been received and will be formally entered into the record. Cindy Corn, 809 Atlantic Street. um this one is from marie v walker this is a formal request since september 5th formal request to please vote for the 4.6 rate and not the rollback at the upcoming final budget vote this week how are we supposed to fund anything if you vote for the rollback we are even at 4.6 if approved the lowest in the county what is the logic behind that also if you go with the rollback the next budget season um there if there is a rollback it will be even lower please vote for 4.6 thank you marie v walker 511 riverside drive melbourne beach okay and just when people do send things to request them to be on the record you guys do provide all of these okay is it these will go on as additions okay they send it if people do want to if they're not here they send it to you and then they just say i want this read on the record and then correct yeah and i i try to acknowledge Okay. And they can send it same day. Is there a cutoff? Do you have a cutoff time?

I would have to check and see what our cutoff is. None of these all came in earlier, so it wasn't an issue. Yeah, yeah.

Some of them came to the commission as a rule. Yeah. We saw them all.

I'm sure we would need a reasonable cutoff, but it hasn't come up.

There was an issue once in the past, but yeah.

Yeah, I can find out what that would be.

All right. Any other public comment? Seeing none, is there any other discussion?

I think it's interesting that all the, anything I've read, and these are cases in point, from the residents, is overwhelmingly in favor of the 4.6. And that's my understanding, our job is to do what the residents want, and that's what i feel strongly about and that's all i'm hearing that's all i'm reading it's all i'm hearing it's all i hear when i'm walking the dog running that's what i hear and now we've got it in writing so i just think it's important we remember what our role is for the town i i think there's a lot of people that would like to have a tax cut i think maybe they're nervous about coming forward because they don't want to be bullied uh and attacked by the fire department yakuza Wait, I'm sorry, attacked by the fire department. Is that what you just said?

Yes. The group of people that come up and attacked me in the past for, and I mean, despite the fact that I'm the fourth vote last year that got the funding, which was a huge compromise, but still I get attacked. But I mean, I think there's people that would like a tax cut, but they see how people get attacked on certain things. So they don't, that's really inappropriate.

I'm sorry.

Well, if there's no other discussion.

Motion to adjourn.

Second. Commissioner Reed, did you have any other? Second.

All right, motion to adjourn. Second, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? That carries 4-0.

Adjourned. Oh, sorry. I'm so sorry.

That was a 5-0 to adjourn. I apologize. Because the vice mayor is present with us. He was sick and didn't want to get us sick, so he's on teams. So that was a 5-0 vote. I know I said 4-0.