Town Commission - Special Meeting

Okay, it is 6.06. Sorry if you guys have been waiting. We've been having a few little technical issues. There are some documents that the finance managers from updates are being printed right now. It's like 10 copies. I think they're on copy six. And then another printer is printing some stuff. So that's where the manager and the finance director and I have been. Everybody will get a copy. The public table will get a copy of those updates that are being printed. so we're just going to take a quick you want to call a roll that will take a quick recess until they come in but with that explanation of uh is that for the first meeting or the second meeting um yes it's for the budget the budget meeting so that's the second meeting we could start the first okay all right that is for the yeah that is for the second then um are they i thought the budget meeting was first no the sea wall the no no the budgets yeah Okay. All right. Well, they're working on that for the second, but they're not here right now. So if you'll call the roll. Okay. Then we'll at least have that that we've started. Okay. Explain the delay. Sure thing. And then we'll take a recess until they get in here.

But that doesn't answer my question. Why don't we do the special meeting since it's not about the budget?

I know, but I think the manager presents that. She's not here. She's over there with Jenny or with the finance director.

It is her topic.

Yeah, getting.

Town manager, public works director.

Yeah, but I, I mean. It's up to y'all.

I think they need, they said that. We can go through public comment and give them some time. Why don't we do that?

Okay.

Yeah, we can get through our pledge, civility pledge, all that good stuff.

Yeah, we'll go ahead and do that. Okay. We'll talk slowly. Okay, so. Okay, so. Roll call.

All right, Mayor Allison Dennington.

Here.

Vice Mayor Terry Cronin. Here. Commissioner Anna Butler.

Here.

Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey.

Here.

Town Manager A. Marie Smith will be joining us shortly. Town Attorney Ryan Knight is with us on teams. Finance Manager Jennifer Kerr will be joining us shortly. Fire Chief Gavin Brown. Here. Police Chief Tim Zander will be joining us shortly. Building Assistant Steve Freeman. Here. Public Works Director Tom Davis. Here. And Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present. Okay.

We will do this by due legion.

All right, so it is 6.09, we are here at Town Hall.

I will read our civility pledge. Excuse me, we'll do a moment of silence first. And then I will read our civility pledge. I will read our civility pledge. The commission and the staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, towards each other and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree and we will direct all comments toward the issues. We will avoid personal attacks. uh we will go to public comment of anything that is not on the agenda um for this first special meeting uh thereafter we're going to take a recess until the manager is back and then we will come back from recess to start the item of business so if there's any public that would like to come speak on anything that is not on the agenda for this first special meeting please come up

I HAVE TWO THINGS TO SAY. ONE IS ON THE AGENDA SO I HAVE TO WAIT FOR THAT. BUT IT'S RELATED TO BUDGETING AND MONEY WHERE YOU GET THE MONEY FROM. BUT I HAD PRESENTED IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION A LITTLE OVER A MONTH AGO ABOUT ON OAK STREET TRIMMING BACK SOME OF THE FOLIAGE THAT WAS GROWING BASICALLY ACROSS THE WALKWAYS. FOR KIDS GOING TO THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING HAS BEEN DONE BECAUSE NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE. MY WIFE AND I WERE WALKING AND A KID ON AN ELECTRIC BIKE KNOCKED US INTO THE BUSHES AND WE WERE ON THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE THEY ARE GROWING all into the sidewalk sidewalk which is large is now about this size because of so much growth over there so I don't know if anything's been done I don't know if the owners have been um alerted that they need to cut this back I mean as owners of a house on Oak Street we know that we have to keep the sidewalk clear that is required obviously there's basically two houses where they're not doing that and it's it's dangerous particularly for kids a lot of people walk there and again I mentioned this over a month ago and I have not seen any action on it so I don't know if any action's been done anybody's said anything about that

Thank you. If you'll stay for a minute. Sure. We don't have the manager here. I would like her to be able to hear that, so maybe we'll convey it to her.

He may not need to. It's been given to the...

code enforcement okay do you know what when i don't know the status but at least a week or two ago there but in the meantime do you know maybe um i know that it's been something that's been numerous people over the years you know myself that i've mentioned in various different places things grow fast you know here in florida so they you can cut them back and they grow back but do you does public works have any kind of periodic checking on their own even without a complaint of some of the areas do you guys do anything like that or note them

No. And there's a little history of that. I don't particularly agree with the unwritten policy. It's always been pretty much present in town. We try not to trim people's trees. And as a last resort, we're supposed to go do it. In theory, bill them, et cetera, et cetera. So we try the soft approach. I will document when they were served and if it's been a lengthy time.

Okay.

I'll probably just go ahead and do it. You'll probably have someone next month complain and I cut their tree.

I think we shouldn't do it without a whole lot of notice and vetting it even through the town attorney at least and getting his approval maybe. I know there was an issue once where they had documentation of paths that they were compliant or whatever, so I wouldn't want to run up against that. If you do it, is the town reimbursed?

They could be we never have but yes, I'm correct me if I'm wrong Ryan's there, but yeah, absolutely we could charge Yeah, our code says that if we have to go out and do it that we are I would say we would I think a lot of my thought is maybe we ought to really publicize that we haven't for a long time I would suggest we do that too. Really really because you're right. There's a lot of streets that are yeah our problems and

But I think identifying maybe even the biggest problem ones, because there's probably a lot of streets where it's possibly applicable. There's a couple where it's so bad, so close to the road, you cannot see.

that we keep a list anyway i'll i'll check with yeah i think this is a one of the reasons why this is such a concern is because you've got the kids coming to and from schools and you know one of the things about our community that makes our i think when you talk to people that come here makes our community great is how kids can walk and ride their bikes and stuff to school and you know we got to make sure that we keep that safe for them because that's really a draw of our community and we never you don't want to lose that SO I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT THANK YOU THANK YOU I CAN'T BRING UP THE OTHER ONE THAT HAS TO DO WITH BUDGETING ABOUT THE SEAWALL UH CAN I JUST IT'S IT'S REAL QUICK SO I'M NOT ALLOWED I WOULD SAY YES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE BUT NO WE CAN'T COMMISSIONERS ARE SAYING NO SO WELL BECAUSE IT'S IT'S PROCEDURE IT'S A REAL QUICK IT'S A PROCEDURE THING SO IF WE START NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT FOR EVERYONE THANK YOU WELL SORRY

we've we've done it before we let people go over but well especially when there's not a lot of people in the audience but y'all don't want to so that's fine um that is the rule so is there any other public comment I think not on the agenda okay seeing none we will close general public comment now we're going to take a recess until the finance manager and the manager can get back They are doing some printing, so. We will take a short recess. We will get back on the record as soon as we have the manager and finance walk in. Recessed. Okay, we are back from adjourning. We are on the first of two meetings today, the first being the special meeting, and we have gotten through the general public comment, so we're on to the one item of new business, 5A, page two of the packet, Sixth Avenue Seawall RFP Update, Town Manager Marie Smith. The packet documents are three through seven, and I will turn it over to you, Ms. Smith.

Thank you. Should we take roll?

Oh, yeah, we do need to take roll. Thank you. Thank you for bringing me to it.

Yes.

Okay.

Mayor Allison Dennington. Here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin. Still here. Commissioner Anna Butler. Here. Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey. Here. Town Manager Amory Smith.

Here.

Town Attorney Ryan Knight is with us on teams. Fire Chief Gavin Brown.

Here.

Building Assistant Steve Freeman. Here. And Public Works Director Tom Davis. Here. Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present.

Okay, I didn't realize it was teal shirt day. Okay. I know. Good evening, Commission, Mayor. So at the 19th August 2026 regular town hall meeting, there was a vote on the 6th Street seawall repair, and you all decided to move it to today so that we could discuss it a little bit further because of the concerns about uh... where the funding was coming out of it was coming out of the special revenue fund uh... it was uh... incorrectly characterized as a misappropriation of funds and i do want to let you know that we did contact the town auditor Zach Chalifour who you saw last week and uh... he's a partner with James Moore the accounting firm And he said that, you know, misappropriation involves the intentional unauthorized or unawful use of another person or organization's money for an unintended personal purpose. And typically it's a breach of trust, diversion of assets or criminal act like stealing. Nothing like that occurred. And I want to say that on the record. All right, at the most, it might be a misclassification, which you have there in the memo, but it was definitely not a misappropriation. So there was nothing, no wrongdoing, and I want to make that very, very clear. Fund 141 comes from a non-ad valorem stormwater assessment and is designated specifically for stormwater projects. The Sixth Street Seawall project is part of a larger project and it prevents particulates from entering into the Indian River Lagoon. We have a number of pictures. There are three options to remedy the situation because we all, I think last meeting we all decided that we want that sixth street seawall repaired. But the question is where is the money gonna come from? The first, and we did check with our town attorney and he opined that if we were able to get a letter from an engineer that said that the 6th street seawall was part of a stormwater project that that would suffice and we could use fund 141. i think one of the handouts we did get a letter from our town engineer of record saying that it is a part of a stormwater project The second thing is we could use funds out of another fund. I mentioned a couple others. I think Commissioner Reid also had another idea about what other kinds of funds could be used and I'll let him articulate that. Or thirdly, we could choose not to move forward with the RFP at this time and maybe put it in a different scope of work. We got some pictures and we wanted to show you some of the pictures. Here's the drain up at the front of the street.

Really quickly, because I normally do it when we have a walk-on, and I saw that. I wasn't sure what it went with. So I think I have it in my stuff for the next one. Can you just read what that is? So we have one walk-on document not in the packet. It will be updated to the packet shortly after this. And then can you read what that document is?

Yes, Mayor, sure. So this says here reference 6th Avenue Seawall, file 11440.32. Dear Tom, Tom Davis, it's addressed to him. The purpose and function of a seawall is to protect upland property from erosion and storm surge, in this case from the Indian River Lagoon. Additionally, the seawall stabilization of the shoreline prevents otherwise loose soils from washing into the lagoon reducing sediment entering the water. Please let me know if further clarification or explanation is needed. Thank you. Should you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Very truly yours, Anna Saunders, P.E., Vice President, VSE Consultants Incorporated.

Thank you. I don't want to keep fiddling through my other stuff to find it. Sure. It was up here.

Okay. Okay. Anyways, Tom, maybe you can explain these pictures a little bit more, what we're seeing, you know, with the drains and how the project has been working.

The actual it's supposed to collect the water coming That is that's the main inlet if you will storm water supposed to travel down on to Pine Street and into that inlet There's also a small one to the south of it, but they become overwhelmed is what's happened. And... Yeah, that... That's the sea wall those that haven't seen it you can see it's extremely deteriorated The new wall would be on the edge of the boat ramp Concrete itself it would replace that blue top office to the water and across the front you can see even from this angle over the past four years we have on numerous occasions put posts and poles in there to attempt to keep the existing deteriorated wall from falling into the water. That is a good shot of me and whether my better poses. What I'm pointing to as I converse, unbeknownst to me, the manager cook a photo, but Well, I'm trying to indicate where under your bid, where the wall will come back to. That's where the concrete will end, back up in that angle. And there's a reason for that is to further prevent the water from coming up the ramp and over into our area, our ground area on the south. That'll be that. And that... Underneath the area of that cone there's conservatively 50 bags of SACRETE that I've had my crew put in over the last however many years this has been going, two years, three years. And we continued to do that, hoping that we could buy time, which it did, but it's certainly not a fix. And the reason for the alarm of the last incident where the cones were placed up, which people ignore, but they were placed up for liability to cover us, it was posted. was the fact that it continued to wash dirt out and cave in and cave in. And we actually had one resident who stepped in it, and she's the one that called and we went down. So that's when we made the decision to post it, basically. That was smart. It's just in bad shape. There's nothing there. Those pipes, the PVC, the street sign poles,

We've driven in across there.

A few years back, one of our citizens donated, wanted to get rid of all that coquina rock and called. And I was glad to accept the donation. And we took that down and put that in front of the wall to bide time, which Currently, we'll save that and put it back because that industry-wide and lagoon choice-wise from those folks would be that you always put those rocks in front of there and the reason being it breaks the waves up versus hitting a flat seawall and they go back and they wash under.

If you put your coquina barriers up that way, it actually breaks the waves.

I watched it down there a couple of times when big boats went by and it does work. It breaks the waves up and they go on the top versus washing under, which I found interesting. So I've made the arrangement, we will save those. Those will be moved forward, construction will be done, and we'll place them back as breakers.

Is that work included in their proposal to place those? I will.

I'll place them. They will, but if they don't, I will. no it is not okay so he knows that was the answer to the yes or no question all right so yes no you're going to re you're going to place them back just like i did the first time i can't guarantee they'll be in that particular order but those same rocks will be back up there uh yeah you you By the way, that's the north side, which is the main drag for the end, our end of the Sixth Avenue project of 2008. And that wall, fortunately, was poured solid concrete, but the contractor had no obligation to maintain that south side. It was not what they did. is they leveled all that ground out. Prior to that, that ground was lower, and what would happen, exactly, it came all the way down sixth and went directly into the river. And like many things, you correct one, it does create other little problems. Engineering can only go so far, or stormwater engineering, I'll reference to not offend anybody. But the design there caused them to bring the dirt down during that project, and that's why we've got the higher spot north of the Adkinson's house and whatever. At some point, I'd like to get engineering to look at that and maybe put some swales and stuff on the sides there, but that's to be seen. But right now, I really need to get that wall fixed. I really do.

We do.

Does that pipe get, I see there's like a line, does that pipe go halfway underwater?

Yeah, during the high west winds and whatever, it will go. During the major storms, like all of them, it'll be completely covered. But it's not unusual in the winter, February, March, Erica, when we get a lot of north, northwest winds, to see that pipe one halfway full. Which anyway, I've learned that that's planned into the engineering. I learned out of the base 10 money that we spent, but that's one small lesson that one old guy learned that it's not unusual. Yes, ma'am. It does.

Real quick. Yes, ma'am. The vice mayor is like, I just do want to note, we don't have a motion pending, but our actual rules, 20, not 2025, 19 is restated. They allow questions of the presenter. BEFORE A MOTION BECAUSE IT'S SO IT IS A BIT OF AN ALTERATION OF ROBERT'S RULES ROBERT'S RULES THEMSELVES ALLOW POINTS OF INFORMATION OR QUESTIONS OF PRESENTERS PRIOR TO THE BEFORE OR AFTER MOTIONS TO MAKE THEM MORE CLEAR OR TO GET INFORMATION NECESSARY FOR EMOTIONS THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING YES MA'AM SO GO AHEAD AND ASK A QUESTION BUT IT'S NOT OUT OF ORDER TO ASK QUESTIONS IS THERE A TIME LIMIT ON HOW LONG EACH COMMISSIONER CAN SPEAK Generally, even for the questions, there isn't. However, somebody can make a motion that we limit questions. But the thing is, if you need information to understand a vote or to even make a motion, you're kind of limiting yourself. Because if you can't get the answers, you should table it. We've already tabled it once. So my preference would just to be informal until it gets too out of hand. Everybody ask questions. At some point, we'll at least have enough information that somebody will decide to make a motion. But at least everybody needs an opportunity to be able to ask a question since people have already started.

I would contend that these rules are in place so that we have an efficient meeting and it's timely and we don't waste time. I agree. All right. So that's important, but I did want to have a question for you, Mr. Davis. Uh, you mentioned the Atkinsons. Have they had some damage to their property?

Uh, I'm not sure in their property. Uh, vice mayor, I know that it's gotten up to their doors where they've had the sandbag a couple of times during major storm events. Uh, in fact, And I can't I will speak for them given what they have related to me was they actually had. Some type of contract to come out and redesign the base around their house because of their concerns over this flooding that comes down. And it's infrequent, granted, but it does happen.

Could I ask a question on that point? Sure. I believe that the Atkinsons, they came and spoke at more than one meeting, at least two meetings that I remember. And one of the things they spoke about, it didn't have necessarily, I mean, they did talk about all the proposals about whether there was going to be a dock or whatever, and they were opposed. That was it. I think that the flooding issue with their property has more to do with this weird undulation of the road, which is not covered by this project. Correct, that would not be. The issue with the flooding with their house has more to do with the other aspect of this that when we originally talked about it was also going to be sort of addressed and looked together. That's not part of this. The other thing is, yeah, I pulled the minutes because I wanted to, there are minutes available where this was discussed. when it was funded I would say that those probably should have been part of the packet but it would be helpful if you could pull those minutes and attach them because it references that what was said at the last meeting about this but then what had happened in past practice but those minutes aren't attached I did find them and read them because I do think that that actual it's not real long but that discussion is relevant it gives the context of that prior

Yeah, go ahead.

Thank you. So thank you, Madam Mayor. So I think Commissioner Reid brought up some good points, interesting points. I've done a lot of research and looked up some of the regulations on this, and it seems that because this is a system that has to do with stormwater. We've got a stormwater pipe right there in the picture. We were also addressing surges and tides and erosion and all this stuff that this is actually applicable for our stormwater fund. I don't think it's really in contention. And then we have the letter from Anna Saunders, which is good. And then we also have a note from the the partner with James pours that child for so it seems like it's kind of a no brainer if we're going to support this it's OK to take this stormwater funding and use that to to fix this problem.

Can I a pine are you asking. Yes, I am sure in my.

It is it is it is just doing question right then so so so my quest will actually I'm I'm ready to make a motion.

OK that had did anybody else have questions before we entertain a motion that you haven't had a chance to ask a question that I was just going to agree with the vice mayor so if everyone I mean I I have my statements that I could make in debate. But We get to be that I know that I'm saying I don't have any question.

So if you want to make a motion now then we can do so make sure this. So I'd like to make a motion that we approve of the are are a P for the 6th Street seawall as recommended.

I second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second is there public comment and discussion and always I feel like it should just get that thought mayor before should we have and also include the the the contract we accepted the law.

We don't have that in the packet or material. Okay, that's probably because we haven't accepted that yet did we I thought it was table to this. but it was recommended yeah it was recommended that we go at the lowest bid but not yeah and that was what was recommended so that goes along with the motion so you want to would you like to amend your motion just to say that there is an additional document on the packet but will be supplemented but that is what your motion relates to

So I think the motion stands is to support what was recommended.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. And we then if we're we do need that in the packet, if that's what it is. So that could you hand that to the clerk that you will have a second walk on document to be attached? It is how many pages total?

Two pages.

It looks like it's four four pages total. So a second document, three pages total for the second one. Motion in the second, is there public comment?

And then you'll also get four minutes. Brian Casasa, 2009 Oak Street. Does this include in this motion the funding, where the funding's coming from these two? Okay, good. So we are not going to have a mayoral election. So I'm sure in the budget this year, there was appropriated funds for that election, correct?

Not a lot because it goes in line with the- How much is not a lot?

Oh, I know it's gonna be less, but I mean, if you're talking thousands of dollars, what I would suggest is that you appropriate those, I don't care if it's $1,000, you should appropriate those funds to the seawall so that you're taking less funds out of whether it's stormwater or paving. Instead of putting them back into the general fund, I would suggest appropriating any election funds to the seawall.

We could do that. I would suggest that. so i will just say we still have a referendum there is still a ballot yeah i don't know that there's really any difference because we're not going to a second page on the ballot yeah we still do have a cost for the election because even though the there's only one candidate and then the candidate became the mayor-elect they won't go on the ballot but we'll go on the ballot is the bond referendum so we still have the ballot okay okay all right thank you thank you And so the third walk-on item will be the minutes from when this was that time discussed. I can give you, and it's just, there's just one page, so I have it. So you don't have to go find it.

Okay, thank you.

Any other public comment?

Bruce Larson 1507 pine so one of those pictures that one there has my house in the background So that part of the seawall is the northern side. There's two sides to it This project does not cover that side at all. Therefore. It does not affect the stormwater outfall from the Basin eight or nine collection grid There is particulate matter behind the failing seawall that does come out. It's coquina. I sit on the appointed member of the Save Our Indian River Lagoon Committee, and we prefer the environmental concerns. We prefer live edge. We're talking about shoreline protection versus stormwater control.

Can you go to the south side, Tom?

The seawall that is failing and is a safety concern and definitely needs to be repaired is not a significant concern. In fact, we prefer you can't get a permit to build a new seawall if you have a live edge today. So the storm surge from wave effect of shoreline erosion is not significant for particulate matter introduction. In fact, seawalls increase the turbidity. The seawall today, and they're in the replaced version, does not collect, trap, treat, or divert stormwater. Stormwater is the rain that comes down.

Yeah, there you go.

So the wave action comes up behind this and takes that cocaina out. There is some particulate matter. It's natural. It's not awful. It's 320 square feet of area is affected here. The 9,300 square feet, the 30 times larger volume is on the access road that neither side of the seawall will prevent that dirt from coming into the river. And that's a far larger concern. Uh, with regards to the Atkinson's house, uh, the, when the, when the project was done, uh, 10, 10 or 15 years ago. They intentionally humped that road to where a large amount of water in Pine Street would not run down the boat ramp road. That's why that hump is there, so that it traps it on Pine Street, diverts it into the stormwater collection grid that Tom was showing earlier, and goes through the baffle box and is treated. So this project is not... uh reduce storm water it is wave action and shoreline prevention for 17 linear feet of shoreline but it is a safety concern it absolutely needs to be addressed my position would be that there are lots of other stormwater projects that really are important use your funds appropriately transfer funds if you need to but but this is a safety issue for roadways parks and rec But but for strictly for stormwater and to say it reduces particulate nutrient loading into the river is There are lots of other ways we can do a lot more nutrient loading reductions. Yep. Thank you We

Yes, ma'am. That was it. No, it was. Who's our third one there?

Oh, OK.

The other one. But they're yeah, they're they're from Bowman. Yeah, they're yeah. That job request was to design parking and layout of the area. That was for landscaping.

I'm talking about when it first came up six months a year ago. I'm not sure when, but in the last 12 months. these minutes that i'm talking about when it was discussed about the it was like three things together but again if it's in the minutes it'll mention the minutes but i don't know if you knew i thought one of one of the engineering firms which includes bfc was tasked to kind of look at it they did

Not that I recall. The lengthy battle was over the dock, remember? That was when it was a bloodbath.

The minutes will either close it or not.

Yeah, I don't remember that.

Is there any other public comment? Seeing none, we will close public comment. Now, this keeps going off. Do you know? I don't know. I know. So we have no other public comment. Now we will have a chance for debate and discussion. Everybody can have their first three minutes and then two minutes and then we'll call the vote.

I'll go first. Go ahead.

So we start the time for three. So we keep ourselves tight.

I believe that the letter from the consultants, the engineer um, is sufficient in my mind. Um, they are licensed and they are, um, engineers. So I feel that their recommendation, um, that this is part of the, uh, stormwater, um, is sufficient. Thank you.

I also find this letter to be adequate as well as the partner for the accounting firm verifying that, you know, that was the whole topic was this misappropriation which was an incorrect term. so we're trying to state whether or not this is inappropriate or you know inappropriate to take the funds out of stormwater we voted on it not this Commission previous Commission and we now maybe we in hindsight we would do it differently but there is nothing according to the accountant nor the engineer that that supports our having to change that decision so that's my feeling on it we have adequate information all right we'll go vice mayor sure um

So I would just take exception because if you look at Florida statutes, they say anything on the shoreline that involves a design that must address compound flooding, whether surge, tides, or stormwater, is considered part of the stormwater. So I feel like a seawall like this, where we have flooding and different issues like that, it really fits the definition pretty well. And then we also have the experts saying it does. The other concern I have is we have a bid right now, and if we wait too long, that bidder has seen all the other bids. And so if we don't take the bid now, that bid's going to go up. So I think we've got a pretty reasonable bid, and I think it would be worthwhile to take it.

Do you mind, did you have a, that was helpful, do you have a statute citation? Chapter 163.

163? Yeah. Okay.

Commissioner Reed?

Sure. In the BSE letter, the word stormwater does not appear at all. This doesn't sway me or convince me in any way. As far as perhaps alternate ways of funding this, I look back at the finance report from this last Monthly meeting here we had in this last year. We had two unbudgeted Revenue things that came in from FEMA that That total over a little over a hundred thousand dollars I'm wondering if we could if that money is tied to I think some of that was from Hurricane Milton reimbursement and I don't know what the other line item might have been but if I It's all Milton, okay. So if that, those are funds that we could declare as, they are revenue in this year that we could use to fund this and we don't have to touch the, you know, use that stormwater money to do this. And I contend it's still not a stormwater project.

Okay, and then I'll go. We have no letter from the auditor. So we can't read exactly what he said. I'm assuming he either wrote some email or letter or set of emails or records or had a phone conversation. we don't have but if it was a record we don't have that which i would want that letter in here because otherwise we're just going hearsay of what he either told somebody and then they remembered and re-characterizing but what is on here what we do have is that uh he said there's no quotes but it says that if the project did not have a and it uses this word direct correlation or inter interdependency to the stormwater project it would not be a misappropriation of funds that most would be misclassification then it goes down and i'm not sure if these are his definitions or just general definitions but um the then we the letter that we have from bsc does not state anywhere that there is a direct correlation or interdependency to the stormwater project therefore the characterization from our auditor that it needed to be a direct correlation or interdependency to the stormwater project is missing from the letter So to me, the letter, I mean, it is helpful and I appreciate that, but the main issue really is, and it came up when we were talking about stormwater assessments, which are very strict, you have to use the stormwater assessments for certain things, but the packet materials, I think, we should have had a letter from the auditor, we should have had the past minutes plus this letter at least that we would you know and and that's the third thing is we don't have those minutes i did go back and review those minutes and they actually do detail the stormwater project like kind of how it came out it is a broader project that was discussed this project is only a small smaller part of it which is not the stormwater aspect of it that was part of the broader project so I do understand the sort of objection to the misappropriation because I know that it is a loaded word. So I don't think it's technically wrong necessarily, but it is a loaded word. And so I don't want to use that, but I also understand how it gets used and in the context in which it came up so we are so close to the end of this budget's year anyway and doing a new one so for me i can't vote for it because there's just too many things that are deficient in the packet information that we don't have the letter the the engineer letter doesn't do it for me to make it where i feel that we're appropriately using the money from the past practice so Everybody we go in the same order if anybody wants to make another statement or address anything Call the question Does anybody else have it further? I'm waiting for Commissioner Corey. I didn't know she did you have anything else? Okay I'll call the question all in favor say aye aye all opposed say nay nay nay Okay, so that carries three two with myself and Commissioner Reed dissenting. I all right uh we are done with that item um and you will have those three uh items uploaded um i will get you that specific page from the specific minutes uh we will i'll entertain you thank you motion to adjourn second second okay we're gonna adjourn and then we're gonna come back in a few minutes to start the next budget meeting we are adjourned Oh, I guess, wait, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Okay, we're adjourned.