Town Commission - workshop

We are now recording. We don't have to elect a chair for this meeting, but do you want me to just go ahead and call it to order and do roll call and let y'all take it from there?

Yes. If you're comfortable with that, yes.

I don't mind. Yeah.

If he's comfortable with that, I'm comfortable with that.

Okay. All right. So it is 7.17 p.m. We are now calling to order the town commission workshop. So I'm going to go ahead and call the roll. Mayor Allison Dennington is absent. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin is absent. Commissioner Anna Butler?

Is here.

Commissioner Tim Reed? Here. Commissioner Sherry Quarry?

Here.

Town Manager A. Marie Smith?

Here.

Public Works Supervisor Tom Davis? Here. Police Chief Tim Zander?

Here.

Finance Manager Jennifer Kerr?

Here.

And Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present.

All right, good evening again, commissioners. I have a lot of our department directors with us here. I have Tom Davis here with Public Works. I have Jennifer Kerr with our finance department. I have Chief Zander here with police department and Chief Brown is on his way. We wanted to start this presentation by just kind of giving everyone a level set on what we're talking about with taxes and mills. And I know that this is a public presentation, so I wanted to provide a few slides for background. And I actually gave this presentation earlier today. We had an all-staff meeting. And so they found it. I had people come up to me afterwards saying, oh, well, this was really interesting. We had no idea that this is how things work. So I just thought that this would be just very helpful to educate our residents. So we'll go on to the first slide. Uh, so what is a mill exactly? And how do we calculate this millage rate? So a mill is $1 of tax for every thousand of taxable value. And we'll talk about taxable value in a second, because that can change depending on your property and how long you've owned your property and whether or not you live in your property. So our current proposed tax rate is 4.6 mills. That's about, that means it's $4 and 60 cents for every $1,000 of taxable value. And we're going to propose this, uh, for this current year, fiscal year 27. So it's going to be unchanged from last year's millage rate. This is the town share of taxes. This does not include Brevard County, the school board, or any special districts. They set their own millage rate. And to illustrate it, if you had a taxable value of $300,000, our millage rate is 4.6 mils. You're you multiply it there and you get your town property tax of $1,380. And that's what we, the town of Melbourne beach would receive to fund our police fire, public works parks, and our general services. Next slide. So there's a couple of different things that also affect your, um, tax bill. And there there's. a shield on our assessed value through legislation called save our homes. And there's the homestead tax credit. Um, in 1995, Florida, um, passed a constitutional amendment, save our homes. that protects the primary residence and it caps at 3% or less after the first homestead year, the assessed value. And what it means is that the assessed value of your home cannot rise to more than 3% or the change in the CPI inflation, whichever is lower. Further, even if your market value jumps, as we've seen in recent years, the taxable assessment only kind of inches up. Again, these are for people who own their homes and who this is a primary resident. So the bill stays predictable, and that's what was the intent of the legislation. The next thing is the homestead only. The cap applies to a primary resident. It's not the second homes, not rentals, and not your business or commercial property. And this is something that I wanted to make a distinction of because in our town, 72% of homes house taxable values is homesteaded. So again, I wanted to give an illustrative example of two different homes. You have somebody who's a long-time homeowner and somebody who is a new buyer. The home price, the market value, is the same, $450,000. The person who's owned it over a long time probably bought it at much less, and their assessed value has only creeped up at the most 3% per year. So their assessed value is what's taken at $235,000. Then after that, you apply your homestead tax exemption there, and it's $50,000 currently. And so you can see at the bottom line there, your town tax bill is gonna be very different For the longtime homeowner, it's only $851. And for somebody who just buys in the town, it's 1,840. So the, um, save our home and the homestead tax credits can have significant impact on your tax bills. Next slide, please. So this is how it all comes together. So you have your market value or what they call the just value that is the legal term in Florida. That's what your home would sell for today set each January 1st and that's set by the property appraiser. You either have the just market value if you're new or you have your save our homes if you live in that home. and you have that Save Our Homes cap for homestead assessments, that growth, as I mentioned, is very limited and it lowers your assessed value. So you take whatever that value is and you minus your homestead and other exemptions up to $50,000 and that's gonna reduce the value you're taxed at. So once you take those, those are direct dollar reductions out of your value. And then you multiply it by your millage rate. And that's what sets the rate for the city, a separate millage rate for the county, and a separate one for your schools. And that results in your tax bill. As I mentioned, the county, the school system, they set their own tax rates. And it's all consolidated into your property tax bill. Assessments, like you have stormwater assessment, are what they call below the line. They are not, it's a different charge. And as you see the tax bill, It has a line and below it you have your assessment charges. Everybody pretty much is assessed the same. There's no exemptions that are given on assessments. So as I said, the same market value can yield very different results because of the Save Our Homes cap and then the exemptions. Next. This is our budget that we're proposing for fiscal year 26-27. We have scoured through it. We wanted to make sure that we had efficiencies as well as made sure that we prioritized what we needed to spend. It is a balanced and disciplined budget for the year. It is balanced with the millage rate holding at 4.6. It is the lowest rate among Brevard County's full service municipalities. Full service meaning those that have fire and police. Unfortunately, the costs this year are outpacing values. Property values rose about 3%, but it's not keeping pace with inflation, which I think this past month was 3.5, and I think the month before was 4.2. So it's just not keeping pace with inflation. Any kind of capital projects beyond any kind of essential repairs or so, we're going to rely, we have to rely on bond or grant funding for these whenever possible, rather than additional property tax revenues. We could raise the millage rate and therefore afford these projects, and that is still an option for you as well. But we wanted to first do this first blush, setting it at the same millage rate as last year. Uh, compensation, uh, for employees. Um, we looked at it, it's very strategic and it's moderate. Uh, we've, uh, put employee compensation, um, at a 4.25% wage adjustment. Police officers instead will receive a $3,000 starting salary increase, and that is so they can remain competitive with other law enforcement agencies in the county. is you may recall on our last meeting we had put in a pay scale for the police as well as the $3000 raise. We went back and we bifurcated that process so we no longer have a pay scale in place to cost cuts. But we do absolutely need to put that $3000 increase in the base salary. So all the police officers will get a $3000 increase. When we talk about discipline spending, we completed all the departments with the finance director and I completed a 10% reduction exercise. We met with every single department director and we remained focused on essential services and town priorities. And you'll find as we go on in the slides that this fiscal year 27 budget that we're proposing dollar wise is less than last year's budget. And there was a number of things that we did. As I mentioned, we cut some of the salary increases. We reduced what we initially proposed as a raise of 4.5% to 4.25%. We minimize short-term capital expenses. For instance, I'll give you an example. Public Works, their truck is almost 20 years old. We said, you know, we can try to maintain it for another year. to see if we can make do, playground equipment. We also looked for efficiencies, and we knew that was gonna be very important, reducing the per gas, the gallon cost of gas. But I really want to say one of the biggest things we were able to do, thanks to our finance director, is negotiate substantial savings with our insurance carriers. And we are still in negotiations. So far, she's been able to save us $85,000 on insurance costs. So yeah, she's been really amazing with that. And she's just been very dogged with it. And it's just very impressive. I went to all the directors and said, look, find places where we can cut costs, and she really just kind of went to it. So I just really wanted to thank her for that and point that out to you. Another good thing, we have strong reserves. They remain very strong at an estimated 3.06 million, and that provides a bit of cushion against any kind of economic uncertainty. I also do want to mention that no funding is slotted to come from reserves to pay for the fiscal year 2017. budget that we are proposing. Last year you did have quite a bit, I think over 200,000 coming out of reserves. So nothing's coming out of reserves. We are maintaining a long-term focus. Our priorities remaining financial sustainability and of course our infrastructure and our enviable quality of life as well as environmental stewardship and life safety services. And I just have some little factoids there. 3,250 residents is our estimate, our taxable values. And as I mentioned, 72% share of that value is homesteaded, which is the highest of any Brevard beachside city. Next one, okay. So as I mentioned, we are holding the millage rate study at 4.6, the millage rate, which was last year's millage rate. The proposed ad valorem tax revenue is 3.239 million, and that is 4.6% above the rollback rate, which is the dollar amount from last year. And I put a little bit of something in there about the rollback rate, because I know that too becomes confusing. It's the millage rate that would raise the same amount of property tax revenue as last year's, excluding new construction. So 4.6 last year is the same dollar amount as the 4.387 rollback rate this year. What this means is that it's the rising property values, not a rate increase that's accounting for that additional revenue. And that's that modest 3% adjustment to property values. How do we compare to last year? As I mentioned, we are cutting our budget by four, almost four and a half percent. We went from a 5.29 budget to a 5.06 million dollars, keeping the budgeted positions flat as well as keeping the operating millage flat. This also includes moving to a 24-7 fire coverage without raising the tax rate or head count or taking any funds from reserves. This approach maintains the current millage rate, prioritizes our critical infrastructure and public safety, improves operational efficiency, and preserves our long-term financial stability despite the rising costs. Let's take a look at how we're funded here. As you can see, ad valorem taxes make up 63.8% They carry the budget of the general fund revenue. Combined with other taxes, the taxes make up 83.5% of every dollar the town collects. There is modest outside revenue from intergovernmental state revenue sharing grants, and we do have a little bit, too, from fees and fines. Next slide, please. These are expenditures. As you can see here, public safety is an essential part of our budget and our community. Public safety police fire, together with the building department and codes, I think I missed that in that one block up there, makes up 54.2% of the town's budget. Fire and police alone are under 50%. General government follows closely at 39.6%. And infrastructure and debt commitments are much smaller than that, as you can see. Okay, next one. We were going to take a $5 million bond to voters this November, but we just had the vote that canceled that. So that is something that we will talk about and discuss how we would want to revisit that if we want to revisit. Here is Eileen's staff. These are our town's employees. Our employees are truly our most valuable assets. Your town would not function, you would not have the services you have. It's almost concierge style when you come up to the window and I see people devote their time to our residents. It would not be possible without these people. I did want to mention to you all that a couple things, Public Works, we have a new software system to streamline and document our projects. And that's really automating and this is something that Tom has really pushed forward. So that, Tom, I'm gonna embarrass you a little bit. Right now they have just clipboards that are hung up with paper on, you know, what assignments they're going to do, they now are going to have this computerized so we can follow through and as folks will be out in the field and be able to take pictures before and after to show you, you know, some of the results that are going on. So we are upgrading our public and we have to do this in this millennium, we really do. So we are upgrading our public works staff skills. And with that, we are just boosting up the two lowest, their wages by $2 an hour. So from $18 to $20. I think 21 to 23 would be Joe Boucher. So I just wanted to mention that. because we are asking them to upgrade their skills. And also honestly, it just provides a more of a livable wage. Under administration, I wanted to mention that we are changing our receptionist position to an administrative assistant for the town manager slash office manager. She's going to be managing our scanning project and she is already started with that. And so we're going to move her up at the same pay rate as our police administrative administrative assistant. This budget takes into account the 4.25% wage adjustment and the $3,000 increase in salary for all police officers. Both adjustments I do want to make sure you understand are a reduction from our initial budget proposal we gave you last time. Again, we cut in half what the police, we're not taking up their pay plan. this year we're just raising the base so that we can remain competitive and we did reduce from 4.5 to 4.25 the raise that we're going to give staff. Next. All right, so some people might be asking why are we raising the base pay for our police? It is the lowest, our pay is the lowest in Brevard County. which the chief said is okay, but we still need to remain competitive with our neighbors. Poaching is a real thing, and we need to deter that. Although the $3,000 salary increase in starting salary still keeps us the lowest paid, it brings us into that range that we're talking about. I did mention and Chief Zander did verify to replace a single officer costs anywhere from $75,000 to $100,000.

I forget the name of the association, the Florida Chiefs.

Yes, that comes from the Florida Police Chiefs Association. So we didn't just pull that out of a hat. But as you can see here, we're the lowest line over there. We still, even with the $3,000 increase, we still will be the lowest based on what the proposed starting salaries are going to be. And I know Chief Zander has gone to every single municipality in the county to ask them what that's going to be. Next, please. I wanted to talk and brag a little bit more about the fire department. You all voted last year to bring in three new fire captains and they have been hired and I think all but one are ready to start. And we will have 24-7 staffing for the first time and a career team working alongside our roughly 36 community volunteer firefighters who still continue to serve. Um, having these captains on site around the clock will significantly reduce our response times, which I know is a concern to all of our life safety calls. It also brings not only that, but faster local medical responses. at the basic life support level, which we don't have right now. And we'll have that for residents 24 seven. This is something where our average age of our resident is 56. It's something that we really, really need. And I think this is a service that is going to be utilized a lot more as time goes on. But this is a very meaningful upgrade in our emergency service and medical care that is funded through this budget.

Next.

I wanted to show you a comparison of our proposed rate to our neighboring communities. As you can see, I don't think you can see it as well, but it's in the Melbourne Beach. It was pink here on your, I don't know if you can see it on your slides, but Melbourne Beach's proposed rate is held flat and it's unchanged, yet is still the lowest rate in dollars in terms of all our neighboring cities. This is how we stack up with our beachside neighbors as far as our market value and our homestead mix. As you can see, we're up top there. Again what we said is our homestead we have 72% homesteaded properties millage rate flat at 4.6. We have if you look down the last column line we have by far the lowest millage rate. But we have if you look at the homestead percent homestead we have the highest homestead values among all of our beachside neighbors. What this means is that we have room to increase millage if we wish to do so. And if we did so, we have things lined up that we can propose. But I did want to mention that there is some capacity for that if you look at just the numbers. Next one. Looking ahead, I wanted to mention that, you know, the budget amendment, um, and, uh, what's going on with the voters. Um, we may, may not have a general obligation bond, but with the state tax reform, Florida voters will be weighing the property tax changes and including the ability to expand the homestead. Um, that's going to need a super majority vote of 60% to pass. This is going to have a very concentrated impact on us because 72% of our taxable value is homesteaded. So you can imagine from the examples I showed earlier on, if you had a house and it was homesteaded and you had a $250,000 tax credit, you would pay nothing in taxes, which would mean we would have nothing revenue from that particular household. So I just wanted to mention that, and that funds all your services. Also, the slower growth in property values means less new revenue is available each year. On the good side, we do have $3.06 million in reserves. It's well above the two-month. average that the GFOA recommends, and even way above the 35% that is considered favorable by credit rating agencies. These reserves are there and can be tapped in an emergency or during uncertain times. I would not recommend it to be used for any kind of operational costs as we've seen happen with some other municipalities. Finally, looking ahead, you did vote to pursue the GO bond to finance infrastructure projects that were overdue. That could not be used for operations. but for capital projects only. It would have ensured a funding stream dedicated to improving infrastructure within the town and I hope that we can talk through whatever issues you all have with that bond and maybe reconsider it again. Anyways, we have our public budget hearings this September before the final millage is set. It will be advertised on your August trim notice, but the first meeting has been set for September 3rd, and then I think September 19th is the second? 16th, I'm sorry. Yeah, the regular town commission meeting will be the final one. So we are going to be moving swiftly and steadily on this budget. But I and my team here are available to answer any questions you have. Thank you.

Thank you. Well done.

Did we report a millage rate to the county yet?

I'm sorry.

Did we report a millage rate to the county yet?

Yes, we have already done that.

What rate did we report?

It was 4.8. What was the rest? 4.8.

It was 110% rollback number?

Is that what it was? It was 4.8386.

Thank you.

If I may, I just wanted to mention that previously we were, as a town commission, we were questioned about our process and how we developed our budget and the calendar, and it was suggested that we get a... statement from our town attorney, which I have, um, a copy of the email that was sent to every commissioner regarding, um, the concern that was brought up. And, um, I'd like to just say that in the email, our attorney Ryan Knight has, uh, emphatically stated that the town has complied. with the provisions of the statute by preparing a tentative budget and computing the proposed millage rate that we have followed everything that we were supposed to do according to the Florida statute 200-065. that governs the method of fixing the millage and that we are in complete and total compliance with law. So I wanted to bring that up so that any concerns were put aside and make that statement. And anyone that wants to have a copy of this from our attorney, I'm sure that our newly hired deputy, or excuse me, town clerk Sid Jones will give them a copy of it. Thank you.

Thank you for making that public. Appreciate you bringing that forth. And congratulations to our town clerk.

I would also like to point out the town manager's statement regarding the staffing. And I would like to point out that according to our charter, that if you look at article three, the general town administration, it shows in 3.01 B that the commission needs to approve any additions or deletions of staff positions upon the recommendation of the town manager. And such recommendations of the town manager shall be made in conjunction with the proposed budget for the upcoming year or may be made at any other time if deemed necessary. The town manager in 3.03, discussing the powers of the town manager, the town manager when necessary shall appoint, suspend, demote or dismiss any town employee under his or her jurisdiction in accordance with the law and the personnel rules. The town manager has shifted the staff, which is her duty to do. And by approving the town budget, that will be approving what the town manager has put forth as far as her staff recommendations. In the past, the commission has, in my opinion, not followed the course of action that is supposed to happen. and took efforts upon themselves to adjust the staff. So it is being done correctly, and hopefully everyone will support her decisions. So I just wanted to bring up that little bit of housekeeping. I have copies of this if anybody would like it. It's also online, and I'll give it to Sid. Thank you.

To kind of piggyback on that, it's imperative in any business, and this is a business, to support and give the necessary tools to your staff. And obviously, they make this talent. They do. These parks don't look like this because the people visiting them leave them looking like this. That's not true. It's phenomenal what goes on, and people with a smile, and we have to invest in our investment. When the police chief said to train one police officer, it's $100,000. I'm not misquoting, I don't think. So if we lose, now we've got a great situation right now we haven't lost people but that right there that's just we lose them just because they can go make more money it just doesn't make sense to then okay now we have to spend another hundred thousand dollars to get them up to speed so we have to kind of not be short-sighted and remember what makes this place tick and it's the employees like any business thank you

May I ask how you would like to proceed? Would you like to go kind of by pages or can we, I've gone through and kind of made notations. How would you like to proceed?

What would you prefer? I will take either way. My understanding is you go through the pages, but you don't have to go through the pages if you have specific questions. So whatever the commission's preferences.

If I may take the lead, I wanted to discuss the building department. I find on page 15, and I've got the original printout, the income for the... For the building department, the plan review, we have in our revenue, I think we have $201,000. That seems to me to be a little bit with... the menu style of building plan information that we were given by the representative for our contractor. I didn't know how we came up with that number and if that is a comfortable number in comparison to how much our building department actually costs. I know that's kind of been an area where we, the building department I think came close or did make money only one time, one year, if I'm incorrect, please correct me. So I'm not expecting that it would be a revenue, because it's not allowed to be a revenue source, but I thought it would come closer to paying for itself. So I was kind of concerned about the building department to begin with.

Okay, can I interject? Yes. I had Sid, or sorry, Deputy, or Town Clerk.

Sid's fine.

Did they get this?

Yes, I passed it out.

So you'll see on here there are some changes to these pages, and this is a living, working document. It's a tentative draft. It is not the final. Changes are made. When we did this, it was, what, a week ago when you guys got it? And since then, some stuff has already been changed and moved around. It hasn't changed the bottom line numbers. It's just stuff was moved. So I have that broke down for you guys, and one of them is the building departments. The building permit line item is that you're talking about? Yes. So that one has, it was 201. It is now 200,000. What refresh my memory of exactly what page is that?

It's page 39, 39. And is that a representative on your, on your new pages? Yes. Okay.

Yes. H5, is that what you just said? In the fiscal year 26 line, those are the actuals right now. So you could see where we're at.

200 was the number for the current budget, right? For permits?

For fiscal year 26? Yeah. Current one? Let me see that one.

Pardon me? Building permits this year?

Yeah, page 39. Yeah, 200,000. Yeah, it's 200,000. And last year, we budgeted 200,000. Currently, we're at 187,000. Right. Yeah. It doesn't appear that we'll move.

Yeah, I'm also curious on that number because of the two pieces of legislation that recently came in. I expected a 20% decrease. uh... so i'm surprised that we're and originally had to twenty adult i don't know what's in here in this year yet really was given to twenty so as you know i'm not i think uh... perhaps overestimating we're not taking into account the fact that uh... uh... we can't base the fees uh... construction value and then the $7,500 exemption cuts off the those permits too, so yeah, I I Would be surprised that we would get the same amount of money So as far as I

I think the thing that's also a little bit confusing is that the way that we're showing how the planner is in the building, actual building department, as far as how those fees are shown as an income and the expense. And also I understand the expense for the actual contract of course is not a employee but it's um it's still part of that expense so are you comfortable with the numbers the way they're being represented as far as where where you mean i'm not i'm not sure which one you're talking about so the planner we're talking about the plan site plan review the town town planning we have budgeted um 55 000 which is The actual for on page 15 of the original document. The general fund. Under all expenses you're going to want to call off the identification and I'm in the building department so you but that's why I was concerned about the planning because that is that is something that the building department charges for the plan or am I incorrect that when we were speaking with.

It's they are, they are charging it and that's why it's more now. Okay. It's going up on 15. So let me, so we increased that and then it's also for the comprehensive plan that needs to be done. Okay. That's been included in that. That's why it's increased that much. The comprehensive plan itself is.

about $30,000. $30,000 for the comprehensive plan? Okay.

I apologize. I was on the building department page looking for that, and I'm like, I am not seeing that.

I know. When you try to look for the contract, it's not anywhere. I mean, it is somewhere, but it's not close to the.

Yeah. The planning departments has always been in 15. Yeah. And department 15 and the general fund where it's not part of the enterprise fund, which we would hope someday the building department would be able to aspire to.

Is that something that we are not allowed to do because of the, um, state requirements about the building department funds and the monies or. Is that just something we've always.

It's where you guys have always had it OK. And also the revenue it's supposed to be self supporting it's a special revenue so we just put the planner into the general fund OK.

I was just wanting to know that you feel confident in the new numbers with the changes that are going to be happening with the building department as far as the revenue.

For this, we met with the building official and went over these numbers. The building permit number was at $220,000, and we did reduce that to $200,000. Okay. Thank you.

And then my own, my other question was, um, if I can find it quickly, I should have put my little stickers on here. Um, code enforcement, the, um, the code enforcement We have one individual at this point. Correct. Okay. And then as far as the program, the computer program that we're using, is there going to be any increase? Have they given you an increase or are we sticking with that? software program for code enforcement?

Decker Technology, that was $13,500. $13,500, okay. And then there is BS&A software as well that is used for code cases, and their cost is $1,500.

So has the new code enforcement individual given an opinion, Marie, on how effective that technology software is? Do we need... to do something else, or should we eliminate that 13,000? Is there any input?

I think he started in March, so he's been maybe on the job not quite five months, but he had to take time to get acclimated to it. I do think he thinks it is helpful than not having anything else right now. He is starting to close out some cases he was just talking today about, one case where he was able to, um, assess $25,000 in fines. And so, um, I think we are seeing that forward movement with some of the cases and he is putting it in the Deckard system so that he can follow up on these different cases. Unfortunately, there was none of that done before. So he has had to really start from scratch, um, and cases that maybe were open before. just were left out there for a while. So he's kind of, he was behind the ball on that, and he's really picking up as quickly as he can.

Is he comfortable having code enforcement completely? I mean, does he need to have an assistant? Has he spoken to you about it for a future assistant or any kind of help?

I mean, I think help would be great, but... we, he has not talked about that specifically. Um, but he says that there's just a lot more going on that, um, you know, he isn't able to catch because, um, you know, he's only one person.

Exactly.

Um, I know that there's some, um, fire, um, life safety, inspections that go on as well that that are done through uh fire department uh but again um that's a part-time person who is doing that but i know i know our code enforcement officer said that yeah he feels like if there were you know if there was additional hours in the day or additional personnel that they would probably be able to pick up on that

Do you feel the need is for the 2027 budget, or do you think the need would perhaps come for a little further down the line if there is a need?

I think there is a need. I think that the building codes are changing January 1st, and this is actually going to be in our meeting coming up, our August meeting. but there's gonna be new codes and standards that have been adopted by the state of Florida that we're going to have to adhere to. A lot of them have to do with ADA, and that's something that we're gonna have to talk about on whether or not you allow, for instance, short-term rentals to be grandfathered in, or do they have to follow the ADA codes? Because you know a lot of these older houses, the hallways, the entrance to bathrooms or so, you can't get a wheelchair through there. So that's something that is going to be coming up. And so I think absolutely we're gonna need more assistance with that as we ramp up on that. Okay, thank you.

So carry on with code enforcement for a second there. So the person that's filling that role right now, I mean, for code enforcement, there's a certification that people can be accredited or whatever as code enforcement. officers. I don't believe the person we have in there has that at this time. Are we planning to give them the opportunity? It should be the expectation that they would pursue that to

um as part of the the job a role yeah yeah as you can see in training in schools we put 1200 there we want him to get certified uh so we are going to send him to those classes and get him certified as soon as practical

I'm curious with the building department. We have CAP, so we have a third party. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is our building inspector is here two days a week or a very limited period of time during the week, right? So I guess I was surprised when I when I heard that it was that limited because it feels like maybe not enough and then we have Steve is it and his title is He's a permit permit building and he's here full-time. Is that correct? so in your expert observation and analysis, is what we're doing currently, is that sustainable? Is that advisable? Do we need to look into, once again, and I know we've had issues But perhaps that's been rectified if we had an in-house. And I understand that's an employee and it's insurance and all the costs that goes with the package of an employee. However, for the town and the best results for all the revenue that we could be missing, possibly, if we're not available enough, that's my understanding, to just pound the pavement. Are you at liberty to talk about your observations on that, or is that something that you're talking about already?

Based on the numbers I've seen the the building department has not been profitable with a contract Service It's very expensive and you don't have the full-time coverage Jeff is in here two days a week, but not full eight hours so like I guess the morning and maybe into the early afternoon and So that's two days. So what happens is if people know that the building official is here only two days, knows what days, what times, they're going off doing work at other times. Our code enforcement is catching some things, but not everything. He's really focused on short-term rentals, which was the priority. I know that there was a request to see how much it would cost if we, Completely contracted out and including Steve's position that we did before Steve was here and it was at a cost of $55 per hour right $55 per hour, which was steep and even though the person was supposed to be there 40 hours a week that person was allowed to telework and we did not have any insight into whether or not that person was a actually doing work for us or for another client. So it becomes very problematic when you have that. I think one time I heard anecdotally, we tried to reach out to that person and they were shopping at Target. So you just don't have that oversight, especially if somebody is at a great distance away. So it just didn't work out to fully contract out. And we really don't have that oversight. So I mean, that's something that we could explore if we want to bring it back in. I know that when you do have a competent building official, you were making revenue. So that was one thing that just looking at the numbers, not commenting on I don't even know these people, but just commenting on what I looked at from past budgets or so, that's what I personally observed.

Okay. Yeah, it just seems like it might make sense to have somebody here more often and invested in us 100%.

Right, and like I said, there's the billing codes, they're changing, and I think that... You know, the residents of this town really have grown to expect a lot more, almost like concierge service with that. And, you know, we have great staff that does provide that. But, you know, you would have to make sure you budget for that properly.

Right.

Yep.

Thank you.

I came across on page 17 the property insurance reduction, and I have a question mark, cut in half, how question mark. So you answered it. Thank you. I was like, wait a minute. How? Jennifer Kerr. I'm arm rustling. I'm like, is that a bad number? How in the world? That's impressive. Yeah.

Let me catch up with my notes. And I would like to point out just as, so some of them have been removed, not all of them have been removed, but on the bottom of pages where it says increase or decrease, after like example page eight, it says increase 44.618%. Those numbers are not accurate because These are actual numbers and it was to it's the excel spreadsheet is formulating That's your increase or decrease from the prior year. So we're just looking at actual numbers right now so actually those Aren't going to be accurate just so you know that are we going to get this as a soft format, you know electronic Absolutely. Oh, yeah, sure.

Yeah, of course I will just make a comment that um Coming new into this budget and the town and the software, it's all done on Excel. And we've had a really difficult time with the spreadsheet. There's lots of challenges with it and even in printing it out. We wanted to get the budget software and you know, we didn't have it budgeted for this year and it would have taken too much to have gotten it scheduled to be you know for us to get the training for it and everything like that and You know if I were to have a wish list I would ask for for that for next, you know this coming fiscal year so I think that will that will mitigate a lot of these kinds of errors that we have to physically go back and we have to hand correct because the formulas people went back and mess with the formulas or different things in there that they just don't put the proper numbers in and so we're going through we're here till 10 30 11 o'clock at night going through line by line looking at this but this is the this was the only way we could get you a budget with the time constraint that we have the process

Since we have the Have you put in a dollar amount for future computer programs and any of this or have you looked into what it would cost?

No, it was just a conversation that this needs to be a wish list yeah BSNA has a some budgeting software. I don't know that it's what you guys would like to see, because what you're used to, it doesn't show you this. It just shows you this. So I don't know that you guys would like that. Thank you.

I'm done.

Okay, so since we have the chiefs here, take advantage of them here, so I was going to talk about fire department, department 22, which is page 24 of the original package. So we have regular salaries are rolled up there in the top there on that page. And I'm just wondering if we could break that up so we can see.

It's on page 25. It's broken up.

In your update, it's broken up?

No, on that, it's been in all of them, not just the updates. It's in the regular one.

Right, so there's a question here then. We have volunteer firefighters. What's the pay number we're paying the volunteers?

A stipend.

The stipend's carried as a number above, okay, the 40. So we're bumping the stipend almost 50%.

We're bumping it up so you guys had expressed interest in me trying to find more volunteers and recruits, so we've... put effort into that. We have 10 new volunteers that are going to be starting shortly, and so we have to have funding in order to do that. So we've been maintaining a roster of about 24. We're bringing in another 10, so that's going to increase our numbers by about a third.

All right, so it was $40,000, and now I don't know that we paid any of that yet this year.

We're going to be paying them one big check just to make that check more meaningful. So they're going to get one big check before the holidays. All right. That money will be...

So that's the number is because of the increase in volunteers, which is okay. Good. Then there's a new line out. It was new to me from looking for the education incentive pay. That hasn't been something we've carried in the fire before. Can we explain?

Yep. So that is a two-parter. The first part is the state of Florida requires Any paid firefighter by statute, if they have a bachelor's or associate's degree, you have to compensate them for that. It is reimbursed to the city, but you have to budget the money and pay for it out of pocket, and then it's a reimbursement. process so that's the first part the second part of that money is the we have a $15 incentive per paycheck if they get their fire inspector and their fire instructor which will then cut down costs in other areas so right now we currently pay a per diem Fire inspector to go out and do the city's inspections if we already have the paid firefighters here and they're certified inspectors We can have them go out and take some of those while they're on the clock and that would reduce the city's expense In the category for the fire inspector and you know at some point down the road he'll want to retire And that was the plan was to kind of get all of our guys fire inspector certified It's quite a few classes and hours to get that certification. So we want to put something in there to incentivize them and that's how it breaks down it's 15 per paycheck they get if they obtain and keep that certification valid because it does take continuing education to maintain it okay um looking down on the page below there page 25 then for the um the salaries um that are shown there so that number 55 252 29 um

Page 9, which has got all the employee salary stuff up above, had the salary at a different number, a higher number. And then 26, I mean, when we first put up the positions, it was at 56K. And so then we're talking about a 4.25% bump. That's a third number. I'm confused.

What's what's the real number? So I think what happened there is so the firefighters work a 56 hour work week. So not a standard 40 hour work week. They have different Rates under the Fair Labor Standards Act that they work under when we have to pay them overtime What you're seeing there is just their base rate with no built-in overtime, but when they work a standard pay cycle they get 10 hours of overtime that's guaranteed to them by law. So that's just their base rate without their built-in overtime. When we advertise these positions, we advertise them with the full basically take-home salary. In this budget, you'll see that the amount for overtime has increased quite a bit from what it was before. I think it's hard to tell on there because you have actuals for 26 instead of the budget for 26, but our overtime budget has increased because we split that out instead of just including it all in salary to make things cleaner on the legal side. We've split their overtime pay and that money from their regular base salary.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the overtime pay in the line items here.

It's on the page 24 at the top. 500.14.00. Okay.

It's 41,000.

Yeah, I see. No, okay. Yeah, and some of that is for filling in shifts and, like, somebody calling out, but some of that is just guaranteed that, by law, we have to provide them because they're working that 56-hour work week.

Okay, all right. So... All right. Thank you for the clarification. It was confusing. So then it looks like you're, I was just concerned that we weren't, didn't have the right number in there. So I was like, it's in there.

I appreciate you being diligent. So then in the dispatching service, you know, so the dispatching service changed and it's around the same service or whatever. And it looks like you guys chose to split the cost somehow. It looks like the fire pays less than the police's. Yeah, when they took us on, the police have been at a set rate for a while, I guess, and when they did the contract, we basically were paying the extra that the police have not normally paid towards the dispatching services. That was the extra to add us on our existing plan, or the police's existing plan, I should say.

So the total, it's like 26 grand, is that the right number?

So you guys decided to... Spread it basically the way it was before Yeah, we kept it the police came repay the same thing that they've always paid and then anything that We incurred extra as a result of adding us on the county's plan the fire department picked up All right

Then down near the bottom there on page 24, the capital outlay there in the gray. So they have this 116 to 460 number. That's not the number that's down below on page 27. It's like 97. So I know that the part of that is the engine. So do we have the right number there? That number's not right.

Now this on this page. It didn't calculate through now.

So it looks like the numbers incorrect there. So we should have the The only capital items were looking at are the payment for the fire engine which were obligated and the bunker gear we've kept it at four sets, but the cost of the bunker gear has increased. So we're looking at four sets of structural firefighting gear and the payment for the engine. You're correct, that number.

So that 116,460 number is incorrect.

So it's the 97,460, you are correct. Thank you for catching that.

the what else did i have here oh um we have our maintenance person we have a part-time person it doesn't look like that person's in the employee lists anymore no we do not have a part-time maintenance person you you removed him in fiscal year 26 but allowed him to stay on until we got the new firefighters So we've had one until just this week?

Yeah, basically. So we'll probably realistically keep him on through the end of the fiscal year, through the transition. We haven't spent hardly any of our salary. He's training the new paid staff, his job duties.

So in the next fiscal year, he's not an employee anymore with the department?

Yeah, so he's currently a contractor. that we pay for those services and then starting next year he'll only be paid for special projects that require him for example If the fire truck, we have to take it to Sanford for its maintenance. We can't have one of our paid staff leave the city to go drive the fire truck two hours away because then there wouldn't be a firefighter here if there's an emergency. And so he would be hired on for special projects like that on a contractor basis, but he would not be a regular employee anymore. So you're planning to still utilize him like that in the next year?

Is there a line item for that? Does it fall under something?

Uh, I think we were going to pull it out of, um, areas depending on what he was doing. So like vehicle maintenance, um, or, uh, it's, yeah. Um, I think that was our, our thought. We were going to put it in professional services, um, which we could do that also. We can move, move money into professional services for that if that's better. Um, but

I don't know the magnitude of what that would be or could be. And just, it seems like if you're not carrying it somewhere, then it's, it's an upper or reducing somebody else's allocation. Yeah.

Some of the other part of it.

Yeah. We can look at that. Um, okay. Also then there is, uh, man, it's related to, um, fire as well uh... but in your going up to like to the early in the package uh... on page three four and they're in the beginning there were that you have this the general fund and building fund so there's this under revenue there's this transfer in from one one seventy two two uh... for department fire salary so there's a sixty Man, I gotta blow this, make this bigger.

And the 64. $64,000

pull, I guess, out of the ocean park for fire. Um, but it's really, I mean, it doesn't show in department 21 anywhere being, so it's just really, it's really just going into the general farm.

It goes into the general fund. Correct.

So again, we're using fund one 72 as general fund.

We're transferring money from fund one 72 into the general fund to pay for fire fighter, Marine rescue abilities.

Right, we're using it as a general fund. We're taking money out of a special revenue fund and putting it in the general revenue fund.

We're paying a firefighter salary part of a part.

So what part? How did, where did this number come from? How was that determined?

That's the number that we decided to take out of there. If you want to take more, we can.

I don't know how you arrived at that amount. I'm just gonna, how did you arrive at that amount? Is it some percentage of the total salaries or what is the basis for that number?

For around half and 64,000, we could do an entire full salary, but we were just being conservative.

I'm sorry. I'm still not understanding. Is that somebody's base salary?

No, it's the numbers we chose to use. We could do the entire salary if you feel better that way, or we could do a little bit less if you guys as a commission feel better that way. We chose a number to put towards the salary.

Okay, I'm just trying to understand what is the basis of the number and...

Well, a lot of it is Marine rescue.

You have, I understand your rationale, your rationale for doing it or what you think you're doing. Um, I'm just trying to understand how you arrived at that particular number. So it's okay. Sweet.

So may I ask, this is page four. It's what you're speaking about. And this is other, the transfer to fund 21. And I see a number that was 50,000. I mean, the numbers are so small. So the column of fiscal year 27, I don't see a number on page four. Am I looking at the wrong portion, the wrong place?

I guess we're not looking at the same. It says page four on the piece of paper that they gave us originally. It's the General Fund 01 and Building Fund 125. It's a spreadsheet. It's right below the second chart in. So anyways, all right.

You're talking about Fund 172?

Yeah, so they're They're planning to well, they're not I don't know how they they're couldn't put it in the general fund There's nothing that says that money goes towards fire. Really? I mean it just goes in the general fund that's the color of the money changed and

Yeah, page four, okay, sorry, I was getting to the page. It says transfer in from Fund 172 to Fund 001, which is the general fund, Department 22 fire salary, $64,053.

Yeah, I see the number, and I see that. The question was, I don't understand how you arrived at that number.

It's a portion of a firefighter's salary. We could do less, we could do more. This is a tentative draft budget, and we chose this portion of a firefighter's salary to bring forward to say we would like to bring this out of that fund for water rescue, for... beach patrol for whatever and we are allowed to ask for that. You don't have to approve it, but we are allowed to ask for it.

Wow.

I just asked how you arrived at the number. Um, and I, and then in, in department 22, I don't see an, a, um,

Transfer in for transferred into the general fund right in the department 22 is made out of the general So we're putting money in the general fund is her is what we're doing.

I Got it Okay, I think that was like for fire unless somebody else I'd be willing to talk about police for a little bit I

On the number, the $64,000 coming out of the Ocean Park parking revenue, according to what we're allowed to do, that is the salary, some form of compensation that we're paying the fire department. So is there also a transfer for the police department from that fund? No, there is not. Only Brickman? There is not. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, that's a good question. So yeah, there, there was in the previous budget. Now they they're proposing not to do that. They're proposing to do fire. Um, well, you know, if, why not public works, public works is spends a lot of time down there also, right. Some percentage of their cost. Be funded there. I mean, if you're going to follow that, you're following that line of logic.

So if you like to, we can do that. We can, we can do fire police and public works if you'd like to.

I, you know what I think is I think we should just put it in the general fund. That's what I think we should do.

That's up to you guys as a commission.

Yes, that's right.

I, I thought along that point, I thought at one point, We did decide to put public works, a portion of public works, take the money out of the parking fund, especially for Rickman Park, for upkeep in Ocean Park. Maybe the commission did not instruct us to do that, but I remember at one point we were going to. Tom, do you remember any of that, if I may ask you directly?

I can't say I've seen any of that.

Would you turn on your mic?

I believe they were all discussed as how we'd use that income. So yes, ma'am, I would suspect reasonably it was mentioned during those early stages.

So does the commission want to take some, a portion? of the ground maintenance or the bathroom maintenance, take that out of the Public Works since it is a line item in the Ocean Park? Take those line items out of, and pay for it to Public Works since they're the ones doing that, the line item maintenance? Would that satisfy some of that for the Commission?

May I ask what the benefit of that would be? Would that benefit something in the budget to do it that way? Can I just have clarification?

If you want to pay a portion of the Fund 172 into the general fund for fund, it would just cover cost in 41 if you choose to do that.

But I mean, as opposed to what we're doing now. Would that be a preference on...

It would give Tom's department more money.

Okay.

It would get you used to do that. It would give you a little bit more leeway too, because we've got a line item of 2200 for ground maintenance, which is public works parking lot maintenance, which is public works. bathroom, which again, and maintenance supplies. So that's almost, it's $4,300 right there that could be paid into. And janitorial cleaning is another $3,000. So if the commission... Would like to give the direction if that, because those are line items on Ocean Park.

Right, they're line items for Ocean Park. It's work done at Ocean Park. Yeah, but that work is being done by Public Works. Yeah. Well, then you would, they would still come out of here as an expenditure. We would just, then you would have to have a parks fund transfer money into the general fund to pay, basically paying, but these amounts would stay the same.

But that money, the park funds is supposed to stay in the park funds except for those expenses being incurred to maintain the equipment and to... Correct, correct. And to replace equipment mainly. That's part of park. So that with Ocean Park, since that is a direct cost, then that would give public works... Am I speaking correctly?

It would pay public works to maintain parks. Yeah, which I think would be relevant since we're paying for a police officer out of Rickman. We're not paying for a police officer out of Rickman. We're no longer taking that money out of Rickman. You guys approved taking it out of Ocean last year to cover a police officer. Last year. This year we're asking part of the firefighter salary be covered. Okay.

Because I remember the chief wanted two officers and we only gave him one officer because it came out of the parks. Correct.

So now we're no longer doing that. It's being funded fully out of the general fund in this budget.

What does everyone think of that? I was trying to get commission.

Yeah, I'm absorbing it. Um, I mean, I guess it does make sense in my mind to have all the parks related services or service that our employees are providing come out of that or be directed directly to that. So I'm just trying to figure out if that's an advantage. And if it helps those departments, then that makes sense. But I really defer to the experts. I'm not an expert on that subject. And I'm not going to pretend to be.

My personal opinion is the parks should pay with the parking revenue for their share of the overhead so that we have an accurate amount of money that is being set aside for replacement. of the equipment, which is primarily what it was started for, was the replacement of the equipment, which continues to go up in price.

Show me where it says that.

I didn't hear what you said.

I said show me where it says that.

I said that in the meetings, in all the minutes, if you would like for.

No, no, that's fine. That's, that's what you're saying. I'm looking for minutes.

I'm sure.

Yeah. I've asked for them and they have not been produced. So it's, it's, it's tribal knowledge.

Well, tribal knowledge has got a lot of merit in this case.

I disagree.

I'll be glad to try to go through my minutes and find it for you But so I'm ready to talk about police if we want to or if we're done with public works So we just need to give some direction is everyone prepared to do that I Would like to give direction to take the expenses for the maintenance of the bathrooms and which are those items that I've highlighted. Janitorial, cleaning, it's about three, four, five, six, seven, about $7,500 that's in the budget to have that be credited towards our public works for providing those services in Ocean Park and follow the same formula for that for Rickman Park.

Wouldn't you just add those expenditures to those special funds?

Pay the money to... to public works. However, it is supposed to be followed through on the bookkeeping.

You just carry it as an expense in the special fund?

Are you asking that part of the salary be paid for the person doing that work? Is that what you're requesting?

I don't know if we can go down the, down how many hours that person is doing it. Tom, what do you think? Are you capable of such a task?

The new system we can probably accomplish that.

So let's save it then for when the new system is fully in line. Yeah. and just have it as far as the costs, the maintenance supplies?

Okay.

Right, there's no charge for labor, no. Just for supplies and...

Correct.

Okay. And those are the amounts that are in each line item is the amount.

Okay, right.

Yeah. What's not true, I'm sorry.

Continue.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear what Commissioner Reid said. For the record.

I'm generally confused on what you're describing. If you're talking about actual line items, expenditures or if you're talking about salaries or you are talking about. We're discussing. Yeah. I don't understand which one you're talking about.

OK. Well, I think we have a grasp on what I have represented.

So it sounds like going forward, possibly when the new system is up to speed, or everybody's up to speed with it, we would consider possibly taking the salaries that way. But right now, you're doing the supplies. So there's nothing to change immediately, and nothing's... And materials. And materials, right. Labor has not been counted that way, anyway. So, next. Right, yeah. Thank you.

We ready to talk about law enforcement, Department 21? Sure. Okay, so this starts on page 20 of the original package.

Did this page get changed? I believe it did. Yes.

So now it's in this packet that was given you. It's still page 20. It's still page 20.

And then page 22 as well. 22 and 23, they're two-sided.

So my question originally there is then for the long-term transfer of long-term capital was previously at 39,450.

I guess it's a different number now.

But I guess it looks like there was like $13,000 left in the ICE money. So I was wondering why we, if we could use that to offset this, Expenditure.

There's currently $144.63, I think, left in the ICE money.

That's not what it said in what they gave us.

I just was wondering if it was an opportunity for To trim that that's all so it seems like that.

It's not that's the answer correct

Then I guess in page 20 and 21 where the salaries and the positions are identified there again. So we're showing the corporal position again, and I guess I'm getting confused. I didn't think we had corporals.

I've explained this many times. We have two corporals. They're inside the hard rank structure. It's not a hard rank, so therefore they're not a specific pay grade. They're in the officer pay grade currently now, and they get a 5% bump for doing their job. They're in charge about 75% of the time, but that's not 100% of the time. That's why they're not a hard rank. So, for instance, if Corporal Meehan is working from 12 p.m. to 12 a.m., and he would be supervisor from 12 p.m. until 5. At 5 o'clock, Sergeant Henchman now comes on, and a sergeant overrules a corporal. Now the sergeant's in charge. So, albeit that they do fulfill a... A SUPERVISORY POSITION, IT'S NOT A 100% ALL THE TIME A POSITION. THAT'S WHY THERE'S NOT A SPECIFIC PAY GRADE JUST FOR THEM.

OKAY. IT'S STILL CONFUSING TO ME, BUT OKAY. So I guess and then in the salaries there, I guess, Department 21, page 20 at the top here for the regular salaries. Then looking back up in page nine at the beginning, I guess, is where all the itemized salaries are at. Well, even here on page 20. So it looks like your salary is not changing.

My salary, I don't make that call. That's my time. That's the boss.

Yes, his salary did change. It has a 4.25% increase.

I thought in the package that he gave us to look at for this meeting, I thought it showed zero there.

No, his salary increased. It was previously 115. It's now 120. If the STEP program was put into effect, his salary would not change? That was not put into effect?

I'm just looking at page nine and it says percent increase is zero percent.

Right, page 7A in the new packet that you were just given. Okay. Shows all the changes.

Right, and that was handed to us right before we started the conversation. Had no opportunity to look at it in advance.

Correct. Well, like I said, it's a tentative budget. We're here to work things out and move forward.

I think it'd be worth it to buy you this new program just so I don't have to do this. My word.

Originally, when I did ask for the step plan, I did volunteer to give up any pay increase I would get to help go towards that. But since we took that away.

I would just say I didn't think that was necessary.

That's your opinion, and I respect your opinion.

All right, so I guess we talked about, actually, you're the town manager assistant. You're expanding that role now, right, for that person. Is there a new job title, description, roles, and responsibilities? Has that, like, been constructed for that?

Yes, we're putting that together. I have described some of the additional duties that she is going to be undertaking. There was extensive discussion when I started about a project where we would digitize a lot of the records and it got nowhere. And so, you know, there was There was no agreement on volunteers being able to do it or so, so we just asked her to start digitizing and I asked her if she would take care of that project and so she's going to be project manager for that.

Yeah, I understand all that and that you're expanded the scope of the role for her and then we're also having pay so it sounds like we're planning on an increased pay increase associated with expanded role or whatever. I just went on the HR front and we have that documented in the job description for that role then.

Yes, that will be documented in the job description. And I've also talked to some of our sister cities along the beach and I've asked them for office manager and town manager assistant job descriptions so that we can coordinate, have similar kinds of roles.

Are we currently searching for a deputy town clerk position? Do we have a rec out or anything for that?

Yes, we are. Did we put that out? Advertise that and a public works maintenance because we're down a person there as well. I don't believe it's on the, it's not on the website yet though, correct, Sid?

No, we need to get it on the website.

Okay.

We're looking at the description to make sure it was still current. Sorry, I was writing.

Yeah, no, we're actively working on that to get it out there.

All right, so thank you. Good. My God, we're moving forward to get that staff that role. So on page 17 here, the original package, which is Department 19, which is General Government Services. the um see oh uh line five ten forty nine ninety eight contingency so we've we've zeroed out the contingency we're not carrying any contingency in the in this budget i mean i think we had 25 000 or something in the previous budget the correct it is at zero we can move money into there whatever you guys recommend

What was that historically used for?

Overage or emergency. I think last year we used it for the showers.

Okay. So we do utilize it or have.

Yeah, but in the prior year we did, fiscal year 25, it was budgeted at zero as well.

Okay. Thank you.

I'm just thinking, you know, the town manager has an authority to do like up to $5,000, I think is the expenditures, right? Correct. without coming to the commission to do that. And I'm just, you know, do we carry that anywhere or is that something we should, we would carry here?

We could.

I mean do we are do we not carry it in that that's we just pulling from other things or? It's an ends up being an overrun at the end of the year We've never gone over this will be our first year.

We've gone over because we've had to pull money out of reserves But this we have never gone over budget. No, it's just pulled from wherever we have it and It's just how it's always been is that accounted somewhere you could

Is that is that accounted somewhere that you could show these were these are the amounts of the 5000 polls?

It's everything in the budget is accounted for yes.

I'm a little surprised that we're not carrying any contingency. At a minimum, I talked about the 5,000. I don't know if you assume one of those every quarter. I mean, there's 20,000 that you have.

And we can. This is a tentative budget. We're here to talk about it and work on it. If you guys would like something in contingency, of course.

would like to see a recommendation on contingency unless this is the recommendation of zero that's it based on how that's been used historically perhaps of what makes sense to be there I guess yeah yeah typically it's something that could be trimmed or whatever in the final throws of it So also in this same department, 19, so near the bottom in the gray area there, the transfer to road repairs fund 351. So the 52,000 a year. So we're planning to continue doing that.

If you are planning to continue doing that, then yes, we will. We put it in there. If you don't want it, if you guys decide you wanna put more Every year, 52,000 over time has been put into, before it was 341 for road repairs during stormwater. Last year, you guys changed it to 351 for roads and streets.

Which is an appropriate change. That's fine.

I'm just saying that's how it's been consistently this way. It's been 52,000, and that format is still going. If you would like to change it, if you guys decide you want to change it, you can. If you want to make it a smaller number, a bigger number, that's up to the commission.

To tell us that we spend this year.

In 3.51.

We have or pay the mill.

It Tom has not done that in 3.51. We haven't spent it yet. It is budgeted, but it has not been spent yet.

Do we have anything planned to do this year?

I was going to say that's pothole money, yeah. that's all yeah that's why that's that's why I mean if we're if we're gonna try to do a mile of road every year then then that does have to be increased but I don't think if we don't have the bond money I don't think we can make that financial decision right now. Based on your numbers, Tom, that you use the Florida State FDOT, what does it cost to do a mile road mill? I'm not certain I brought that with me, Commissioner.

I had done the back on those roads thing.

Yeah, I remember you presented it one time, I believe. Yeah.

When I use the current cost factor and looked at the streets that was on our maintenance list I 52,000 would not satisfy any one of those.

No, that's just pothole money.

I can certainly get you numbers on that.

I think you did that once, yeah. So do you want to try to increase it without the bond money based on the numbers to pave and mill one mile of road a year?

I think we need to come up with a solution other than what we're doing there. I think we should be looking at probably doing under an assessment for doing it.

If we don't have the bond money, I don't know how we can come up with the right amount of money to do that.

It could be financed in other ways.

Such as?

Like I said, we could go for an assessment to cover that under the non-ad valorem. We could come up with a way to try to do that.

A below-the-line item assessment?

Yeah.

That money wouldn't come in until the next fiscal year.

Right.

We wouldn't have any money for this next year, though.

So that number would have to be... And this money that you're asking for doesn't do anything for us really anyway other than fill potholes.

So... No, I was just stating that if we did a non-advalorum below the line, we would not have it till fiscal year 28. We would not have any money to do anything this coming fiscal year. Because we've missed the deadline for that, right? yes that was yeah I think the resolution that was put in was not worded the way that the county accepted it so so we can't that's not a for this budget that's not an option do we have one project we'd like to get done this next year the most the most needy project or We'll take a look at it and we'll get back to you on that. I don't think we're gonna talk about that right now.

I wouldn't feel comfortable to look at it. We can get to that.

So basically if we have, if we want to try to stick to the one mile, if we want to pave one mile of road in 2027 and not take the money from reserves, there's no way to finance that. Is that correct? Marie without taking money from reserves as we stand now? Yes.

Okay.

So the only way that we're going to be able to pave one mile of road for 2027 and 2028 with possible stormwater repairs, do you have a number of what we have in stormwater right now saved without taking anything out of?

Do we have a number?

Well in 351 we'll start there. We have currently $146,000 in there and if we add, don't spend any of it right now, there's a budget for like curbing and other stuff that hasn't been done yet.

Right.

And then we add the 52,000 to that so then we'll have 198 000 in in 351 so that can go towards i don't know how much it i don't know what it costs to pave a mile i'm sorry that's not my expertise no that's tom's yeah let me uh yeah so that's the money we'll have there stormwater three fund 341 which page is that is page 54. Currently we have three hundred and thirty one thousand dollars in there, but we are still waiting for the last Payment to Atlantic for the work base in one or base in one which is what they did So that is most likely going to clean that out So so a base in one It's gonna wipe out the 331 is that what you're saying, correct?

So then how are we gonna pay for base in ten? I? We are not. So we're not going to be able to do anything for Basin 10 without the bond? No.

That's right.

Well, you'll have the engineering done. You voted in June to have that come out of reserves. So you'll have the engineering done with Haley Ward for the plants. Do you remember the number for the engineering? It was about $50,000. $50,000. and you voted to take it out of reserves.

So it goes back to my original statement. Without the bond, Commissioner Reed, we don't have any way of paying for Basin 10 or for anything else because we don't have the money in that fund. The 331 is going to be spent for Basin 1. Is that correct?

Yeah.

Correct. Yes.

That was what was budgeted in there last year. Correct. Was for the prior year, this year, was for the Basin 1.

In last year's 26, when was it, 26? Yeah. We funded $500,000 in stormwater.

It was, there was a lot that was moved in there from, through all the departments. Part of it was a. Yeah, it was 585,706. So it was the total that was transferred into stormwater.

It's on page 54. Correct. It shows the basin one project was almost a million eight.

Right, but in the budget process, we put $500,000 in to the fund for stormwater that showed up in the ad valorem.

My understanding that budget was a very difficult budget and everybody since the time I have started here has talked about what a disaster that budget has been because of all the transfers and all the damage it's done to the budget. So I would not recommend that transferring any, if you could see the whole line of transfers there. of money from that action, from different funds that went into it.

Well, that's the only way we can fund 351 is we have to transfer money in because it's a special. 351. Yeah. 351. That's the only way money comes in there is transferred in from the general fund.

We've budgeted $100,000 for that fund for engineering work that may come up. I'm just saying that I would not recommend doing that again to the town.

That's the only way. How do you get money into this fund then?

Our interim manager said the same thing.

Yeah.

Concord.

Okay.

It shows up in it shows up in the total value that you were near budget value 351 is for roads Special Revenue Fund 351 is for roads. I 341 is for stormwater.

Correct.

The way money gets in is get transferred in from the general fund. That's how you fund these two funds.

You took $75,000 out of the Rickman Park for stormwater.

Right.

Instead of having it for what the revenue was originally for.

You say me.

I was not on the commission.

And frankly, I didn't vote to approve last year's budget because of a lot of this. So the idea was that initially there was going to be a $500,000, actually it was $25,000 I guess was where we did fund it. We never spent it there. It got carried over and used into the Basin 1. So that was the decision was in that budget that we were going to allot $500,000 for stormwater. So we can do that here again for Basin 10.

Well, we don't need 500,000. We need almost a million eight according to these numbers because Basin 1 was a million eight and that Basin 10 is about the same size and who knows. what's going on underneath because it's in a lot worse shape.

We haven't gotten a quote yet from Haley Ward, but I thought they were throwing numbers around of 300, 400,000. 300, 400,000 for Basin 10.

I don't recall that. I don't recall that.

That was for one project in Basin 10. Okay.

Yeah, that was one portion.

Okay, so it was just that major.

Well, that's the only work we were talking about doing in Basin 10. What else is there that needs to be addressed in Basin 10?

And the money we're spending for the engineering that entire base in 83 acres Upstream needs extreme heavy work swales. Those were options He didn't get it to make part of his proposal to make that Correct is was I think what he was told tell us what will make it right and that's what he basically said. I

But that's not what's been before us that we've been voting on.

It was part of his original proposal.

But it's not the part that we've been deciding to move forward on.

Yes, you all decided to move forward on just that small piece. But the point is that there's a lot more work in Basin 10 than just that small piece that needs to be done. But you decided just to move on that one piece because the residents were here.

So we can continue to do that in next year if we fund it.

That is a decision of the commission.

We also have, we could loan money to ourselves.

Say that one more time.

We could loan money to ourselves.

Out of the reserves?

Right.

But isn't that a policy that is not recommended? Why would we loan money? Why would we take money out of our reserves when we can get a bond? And we would secure, we would, our, the town's reserves would be secured and we would only have to pay an interest rate of.

Not talking about depleting the reserve fund. We're talking about a portion of it staying above the recommended holdings.

But if we're looking at basin one, has an actual price tag of a million eight i mean that's over one half of our reserves that doesn't make financial sense to me you can do half and half you could do ad valorem and and um and and alone well with the ad valorem getting ready to fall off the side of a cliff i can't i i don't understand how that's going to increase for the town we have to provide fire and safety which is police and fire and maybe just the ad valorem with whatever's going to happen is going to happen but maybe that's pretty much all that we're just we're just talking about funding next year i beg your pardon we're only talking about funding next year no because that bond was going to go through 27 28 perhaps the $5 million would carry us through to 2029, or we could get another bond if we needed to, or if we didn't need $5 million, which I believe we're going to need at least three, we would not vote again to have the bond. Instead of depleting our reserves, that makes more fiscal sense.

Which the gentleman from KFM did not say that we should deplete our reserves.

I beg your pardon? I think you say take it from reserves?

I didn't say deplete reserves.

You said you borrow. But you said take it from or borrow from.

We can borrow a portion from our reserves.

So is that not depleting because what goes?

Depleting means zero is left. No.

Depleting means minus. It means minus. It doesn't mean 100% minus. It just means minus. Minus what, a million?

Wordsmith.

You started the wordsmithing, not I.

I apologize. It doesn't make sense. Is there any more conversation or should we let the staff go home since it's after 9 o'clock? and think about everything as far as the difficulty and allow staff, if Marie could do it, to bring up the paperwork that Tom already did on how much it costs to mill one mile to give us maybe a road millage schedule. We had one before and I know it's probably outdated And then when do we expect base in 10 figures? Could we get any closer of an estimate, you think?

Tom and I were just talking about that this evening. We have heard back from the gentleman who was here, and they were doing some more studies because they wanted to make sure their numbers were correct. So we need to make sure that he has an updated product for us before we can get any, see if his numbers have changed, what he's recommended. But I think his number as far as 50,000 for doing any additional study, that's fairly firm. But again, if you recall, there was a resident who came up who had questioned the numbers, and Tom and I did talk to that guy, and then we also talked to David Baggett with Haley Ward, and they sent a crew down to shoot some more, you know, I guess scope it out a little bit more and do some more calculations. We've only received emails back, anecdotal emails, but we haven't received any kind of a report back as yet. So I think they're still working on that. Thank you.

Thank you. Great presentation. I think this is a good start and questions we have, we can always come to you, I know, in the interim.

Okay. If you have any direction or you have any comments you'd like to share, Please come to me and share them with me and I will direct staff.

Thank you. All right. Thank you Do we need a motion to adjourn? motion to adjourn second All in favor Thanks everybody