Town Commission - Regular Meeting

Sid, let me know when you're ready. All right.

I'm going to call the meeting to order. Could we have the roll call? All right. Mayor Allison Dennington is absent. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin?

Here.

Commissioner Anna Butler? Here. Commissioner Tim Reed? Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey? Here. Town Manager Amory Smith? Here. TOWN ATTORNEY RYAN KNIGHT. HERE. FIRE CHIEF GAVIN BROWN. HERE. POLICE CHIEF TIM ZANDER. HERE. PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR TOM DAVIS. HERE. AND BUILDING OFFICIAL JEFF PARSONS. HERE. INTERIM TOWN CLERK SID JONES IS ALSO PRESENT.

ALL RIGHT. LET'S STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, we're going to recognize a moment of silence. OK, and now I'm going to recite the civility pledge. The commission and the staff of the Melbourne of the town of Melbourne Beach pledged to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same toward the commission, each other and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues and we will avoid personal attacks. OK so to begin the meeting agenda do we have any additions to leases or changes.

I have some right commissioner Reid. So the the first was a deletion on. Item 12 see under unfinished business we can we could remove that that funding opportunity has has dried up so OK that's it's not a. Not worth talking about and then under item before you go further. Could you tell us what happened?

Is it just we missed the timing or?

No, the the funding disappeared.

Oh, is that right? Yeah, so, okay and so it's not even available.

Yeah, the funding is not available. Okay, so

If I could I just want to thank commissioner Reid though he made a really valiant effort to get us somebody to help us write that grant and like he said at the last minute of funding and that come through on the on the state level, but he really has been working with me has made a really great effort towards that and I just want to thank him for that.

Thank you commissioner Reid. so also under new business items 13 d and e i was wondering if we could table those um for this meeting we have uh two presentations and in the interest of time we have a pretty full agenda um these don't seem like they're uh need to be addressed perhaps this month d and e 13 d and e

I do want to say that one of the presentations the mosquito population presentation. They could make it because it has been very very busy. This is a very busy time of year and they do have information in the back though that they wanted to provide. So that one is going to be deleted from the agenda.

Oh, okay, that's important.

We'll have them over some other time, but they apologize and they sent the information.

Okay, so that's a 6B.

uh yes 6b will be deleted okay additionally i have two walk-on items that are at your desks or at your areas one of which no longer needs action to be taken but i just want to address it so that people know about it okay so just just before we go on to that commissioner butler

let's just uh go to back to 13 d e uh if we all do we agree that we want to table that or maybe if if we could ask uh our town manager maybe to fold that into her manager report okay i can do that very easily that would be easy yes i can do that would that be okay commissioner commissioner

I was concerned with the time aspect of it. We didn't we didn't finish our agenda last month and I think it's important that we finished the items you know that need to be addressed.

Why I you know I did spend some time reading about the welcome package and what they're doing there. I would love to keep that one and maybe you could talk about the parade from your town manager report.

OK that sounds that sounds great or if you want to move that one to the end if we have time and then I can do the welcome package with my report so that we can honor commissioner Reid's request fantastic.

Any other thoughts from the commissioners on that. All right Mister Butler.

Yes, as I said, I have two walk-on items, one of which has been thankfully resolved and doesn't need action, but I just wanted to bring it forth so that the town knows and the commission knows what went on and the group effort that went on to kind of solve a question that we had. And then the other one I wanted to bring up, it's something that was asked to be on the agenda by a resident, EMAIL IN DECEMBER OF 2025. SO I WOULD HATE TO TABLE IT.

I DON'T WANT TO GET CONFUSED.

WHICH SUBJECT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THEM ON THE TABLE. is from an email from 2025. It's from Mr. Cory Runty about the proposition of having fencing. And that had been kind of talked about in emails and sent to all of us. And we never addressed it. I agree. So I feel that that should not be left again. The other is regarding a request from a resident to adopt and enforce trespass procedures for the Melbourne Beach Public Library consistent with the Brevard County Library Code of Conduct. That is the one that has been very, very diligently researched by the resident as well as our Chief Zander and has been resolved today. But I just wanted people to know how everybody worked together and we have a plan. can you just give us a little short idea of how it was resolved what what took place yes so um and chief zander please uh if you if you want to add anything or correct me if i'm wrong because it's not really my wheelhouse but um this resident was concerned about after hours parking in the um public library lot and there was question as to whether or not we had any jurisdiction or any say on that and we had been told that an employee of the of the library had given permission to people to do to park there um as it turns out after a few days i guess about 48 hours of lots of diligent work on this, on our wonderful neighbors and our chief of police. It actually is a county decision and the county does agree that there is no after hours parking in the public library lot. That can be enforced by our police department, as well as we will be getting signage in about a week that will state such. So there will not be after hours parking in that parking lot. And people are please welcome to park in Ocean Park or Rickman Park at paid parking. Additionally, the chief has taken a further step to notify all the businesses on Ocean Avenue that they could see an influx of possibly parking in days that people tend to park in after hours. And that is their responsibility if they do not want do not permit or don't want that parking to occur that that's their towing decision and responsibility, correct? Yes. OK, good.

So it's a little long winded. Well, it sounds like a win win proposition so that the town could actually get revenue from parking. Right. It's kind of a neat thing.

All right. And a great working together. Thank you. Thank you.

Fantastic. What would you like this to be under?

Um, that was initially going to be new business that your email came out at like three o'clock today or something. So it had already kind of been, I was planning to make some kind of, you know, motion to do something, but we don't need to. So I'm not sure what email and the Corey can make that a new business.

I yeah.

Well if I could make a if I could make a recommendation we're moving D maybe you could replace D with one of these and we're moving key to the end so you could probably replace those 2 items in the new business that commissioner Butler brought up OK with those 2 so we make the Corey run T D will be the gate. And he will be the library parking.

Well, that's been that's been taken care of. But there is I see this. We don't need an action. OK, I saw this about the town roof repair.

Yeah, that be maybe E. Yes, we can make that.

OK. And then the other can just be on the record, but dropped off as far as an agenda item. OK. Yeah, that's great.

Thank you. Commissioner Corey, any comments?

Wonderful. Thank you.

All right. And then we could put the 4th of July is the I if we ever get if we get to it if we get to Yeah, if we get to it, we'll make that I All right And so the the leak is going to be That's correct, okay Not seeing any other additions of deletions or changes I Sid, do you have any proclamations, awards or announcements?

Just our monthly calendar. So tomorrow night here in the community center is the storm ready Sunday social. So that's going to be a community meeting presentation on severe weather and hurricane preparedness. And the Melbourne Beach Volunteer Firefighters Association will be providing ice cream. So that's the Sunday social portion of the meeting. So National Weather Service Melbourne the brevard eoc waste pro and town officials will have presentations that's from 6 to 8 p.m tomorrow and then august 7th which is a friday from 6 to 8 is the parks board back to school bash in reichman park and there's information about that on our website as well other than that it's just our normal monthly park events the exercise and then the old town hall schedule

Fantastic. Fantastic. Before we have public comment, we do have a presentation scheduled by Storm Ready, our designation by the National Weather Service. Is there who's presenting that?

So we have Will Ulrich here tonight, the Warning Coordination Meteorologist with National Weather Service Melbourne. And so I'll have him come up real quick and just speak on the Storm Ready program. But it's a nationwide preparedness initiative that we've undertaken as a community that recognizes proactive steps to help our community prepare for and respond to hazardous weather.

i'll let we'll kind of give us a little brief overview and give our presentation of our community's designation it is oh i think you go you're good all right there we go now everybody can hear me uh thank you chief brown and thank you county commissioners and city employees happy to be with you all My name is Will Ulrich. I am the Warning Coordination Meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Melbourne. We're right across the bridge at 421 Croton Road. We're the ones responsible for making your phone go off in the middle of the day or sometimes in the middle of the night whenever there's severe weather. So if there's a tornado warning, a severe thunderstorm warning, a hurricane warning, you get advised that there's a high risk of rip currents along your coastline. That is coming from the team of about 20 of us that work out of the weather forecast office at the National Weather Service in Melbourne. We are a federal government entity, and you all as taxpaying citizens play a role in the important mission that we have. But for today, I'm here to talk about the importance of our agency's severe weather awareness program, which focuses on two things, educating public and mitigating death, injury, and property damage caused by hazardous weather events here in Florida. And that's where Storm Ready comes in. You can see the sign towards the front of the room. This program helps arm America's community with the communication and safety skills needed to save lives before, during, and after an event. And it is perhaps the most important piece of the Severe Weather Awareness Program puzzle. The program started back in 1999 with my colleagues out of the Tulsa WFO, Weather Forecast Office, and has since then grown over 3,000 communities, universities and colleges, military bases, commercial enterprises and groups that have been recognized as storm ready. And as of today, thanks to the efforts put forth by several of your employees, as well as the town's fires department, Melbourne Beach is the next storm-ready community to be added to that list, of which we have approximately 25 in the 10 counties that we're responsible for. So congratulations to you and your team. Your city's staff has worked hard to meet the goals of the Storm Ready program, which involves developing an emergency operations plan, identifying multiple ways to receive and disseminate weather information and warnings to the residents of the city, identifying shelter locations, and participating in severe weather training tornado drills like Severe Weather Awareness Week in February or Hurricane Awareness Week in June. But let's remember that even the best laid plans are often put through the ringer door in an emergency. In our community, Though it's no stranger to weather hazards, whether it's hurricanes, tornadoes, extreme temperatures, the collaborative effort that's put forth by your team over the past couple of months, weeks, years will allow Melbourne Beach to better respond to the next severe weather event. But it should not end here. Preparedness is everyone's responsibility. You all in this room at the personal level, at the city level, at the county level should consider the vulnerability of all weather hazards and develop a plan if you haven't already. We have everyone ready for hurricane season as of June 1, but let's be real, preparedness is a 365-day activity. We prepare because of the 1998 and 2007 Central Florida tornado outbreaks, which killed 63 people in the middle of the night right here in our backyard in Osceola, Seminole, and Orange County. as well as the more recent historic tornado outbreak associated with Hurricane Milton back in 2024 that killed six people to our south in Fort Pierce. We prepare because of the 1998 Florida wildfire season that burned over 500,000 acres of land over a two month period. We prepare because of hurricanes like Milton, Irma and Ian, which highlighted the unique vulnerability to our community to flooding rainfall. Remember, storm ready does not equal storm proof. No community is storm-proof, but programs like Storm Ready and others can help save lives. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, and thank you to Chief Brown for initiating this very important program. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Would some folks like to take a photo with us in front of the room? I think we would love to take a photo.

That'd be great. We get all the staff up front and the commissioners.

We come down front.

We'll go get a picture.

And I think we hold this sign to it. Definitely. Let's hope we'll hold this. Yeah.

Yeah. And Commissioner Reid also played a very important role, pivotal role in really shepherding this through with Chief Brown. Put him up front.

Yeah, I really think we could make them all the time.

There you go. Nice. You take the picture. You got to get the whole crew. I'll do this. I've got the cheese.

I got mine. All right, you guys smile. That's one.

maybe we'll see You will have to work out. Great job, great job. All right, Gavin, I'm out. You're good? Yeah, it's here, right?

In this room?

So tomorrow, I believe it was announced that we're gonna have the Sunday social. I will be speaking about hurricane preparedness, talking about some of the more prolific storms to impact Brevard County, some of the differences between West Coast landfalling hurricanes and East Coast landfalling hurricanes. And then my friend and colleague, John Scott, with Brevard County Emergency Management, will give you guys important tips on how to prepare for whatever this season has to throw at us. I know it's expected to be quiet, but just remember, it only takes one.

And just want to repeat, there will be ice cream. Free ice cream. All right. Even better.

What time is it?

No timeline.

Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, so moving along, we're going to have public comment. This is for non-agenda items. After being acknowledged, members of the public should state their name and address for the record. The commission encourages citizens to prepare their comments in advance. Each individual will have three minutes to address the commission on any topic related to town business not on the agenda. Is there any public comment?

Jan Pence, 200 Riverside Drive. I wanted to start by saying thank you so much to the three commissioners that held the line and made sure that we're hopefully will stop being bullied by all the lawsuits this town is facing. So thank you. Vice Chair Cronin, Commissioner Anna Butler, and Commissioner Sherry Corey. And thank you, Attorney Ryan. You did a great job. So, I've got a brief article that I wanted to read to you. I'm not on social media, but a lot of stuff is shared with me. Some of y'all may know me because I'm the head of the... Truth and Accuracy Matter Citizens Activist Group. And so we write articles on a regular basis. And a lot of it's in response to the nonsense that we see on Nextdoor. So this most recent article, I'm going to read bits and pieces of it. This is the full judgment that I've copied, paid for, copied over there on the table for anybody and everybody to pick up so you can read it for yourself and get the truth accurately. Mayor Al Dennington, also known as one of the managing members of Faneuil LLC, along with her husband, Dr. Alvin LeFou Dennington, the other managing member of Faneuil LLC, filed the most recent of their seven, that would be seven, lawsuits. This one concerned five separate public records. This case went to trial in April of 2026. On July 6th, 2026, Brevard County Circuit Court Judge Samuel Bookhart III issued his final judgment. The Denningtons, Funo, lost 100% of the claims that they took to trial. Regarding four of Funo's public records requests, Judge Bookhart stated the following, the petition is denied and final judgment is entered in favor of the town and against Funo. and Fennel shall take nothing from this action on this claim. The one claim where the town had some exposure was actually stipulated prior to the trial. Those of us who were actually at the trial waited two hours for it to start. It started two hours late because There was mediation going on outside in the hallway, which was public hallway, easy to hear. The mayor made it very clear for those of us who overheard it that she had no intentions of settling for amount of money that was offered, whatever that may be, and that she was going to take this thing all the way to trial. Well, she did, and they lost. So my question is one thing, and then I again wanted to say thank you. Do we need to add a budget number to our budget, a line item that will cover her lawsuits and her husband's lawsuits in the future? This has been going on since 2022. And if we do, I'd like for this commission to address that because it's unfortunate that we had to deal with this and she lost.

Thank you. Thank you.

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I reviewed all the supporting documentation for items on this meeting's agenda. It was truly reflective of the many hours of town staff efforts required to prepare that volume of detail to be posted online prior to tonight's meeting. Concerns me that interim Town Clerk Jones is having to do the work previously done by two people since the Town Clerk position is still vacant after our town lost the long serving and highly qualified Amber Brown to another community recently. Thank you, Sid, for your resilient spirit and perseverance in serving in the town during this vacancy. The details provided in the interim town clerk's report showing the time period it takes to complete broad public records requests with wordings of any and all for a variety of documents from all encompassing sources certainly shines a light on the excessive and time-consuming work they create for our town staff When looking at public records requests next to the spreadsheet showing the status of months past town meeting minutes not yet transcribed, it becomes clear that speculative public records requests searching for gotcha information definitely interferes with the ability to carry out town business efficiently. A healthy community should be a circle where everyone is working together for the greatest good, for the greatest number of people. A circle has no sides. I say again, there is no us versus them. There is only us. United we stand. divided we fall and it's my hope that our collective we will strive to do better instead of placing obstacles that obstruct and delay the most effective functioning of our town staff too I was pleased to see that there were proactive steps moving forward to address the critical need for more accurate funding for current and future stormwater infrastructure needs in our community. The persistence of a small group of concerned residents attending these meetings over many months resulted in town leaders becoming more aware of the specific impact of insufficient stormwater infrastructure on their properties and neighborhood. Kudos to my fellow town of Melbourne Beach residents for your perseverance. A critical public safety issue impacting homes and roads are on the precipice of being more adequately funding through your persistent efforts and the innovative funding strategies brought forward under the leadership of our town manager, Marie Smith. We are blessed by her experience and professionalism that she has brought to our community. Three, it frustrates me how many times the critical public safety issue, the need to fund an expanded hybrid staffing model for MBVFD in a timely manner brought forth by Fire Chief Gavin Brown in February 2025 has been pushed to the back burner by town leaders over the past year and a half. law enforcement and fire department public safety services are the two main functions of government and should always be a priority if not funded within a municipal budget these vital public services must be provided but with an outsourced cost and a loss of control to outside agencies to set that cost in the future fire chief gavin brown has proved himself to

I'M SORRY, TIME IS UP. SUSIE, HANG ON ONE SECOND. ANY OBJECTION TO GIVE HER A MINUTE TO FINISH?

I'LL TAKE 30 SECONDS.

ANY OBJECTIONS? ALL RIGHT, PLEASE.

FIRE CHIEF GAVIN BROWN, THANK YOU. FIRE CHIEF GAVIN BROWN HAS PROVED HIMSELF TO BE A TRUE SERVANT LEADER. HE HAS PUT THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY ABOVE HIS OWN OVER AND OVER. HE HAS UNFAIRLY HAD HIS MOTIVES AND CHARACTER QUESTIONED BY A HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS IN OUR COMMUNITY. since making his much needed expansion staffing recommendation for MBVFD in February 2025. I value Chief Brown and his role as our public safety officer. He takes that critical life safety responsibility very seriously, as do all in MBVFD. I implore our town commission to show more respect for Chief Brown's fire service expertise and trust him to provide the best path forward during this fragile transition time for our town and MBVFD in the most cost-efficient manner. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Stark. Very well worded.

GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS AND EVERYBODY WATCHING ON TV. THIS IS A LOVELY VIEW TONIGHT. ACTUALLY, I WANT TO THANK MS. STARK BECAUSE SHE MADE A REALLY GOOD INTRO KIND OF AND A SEGUE INTO MY COMMENTS FOR THIS EVENING AS DID MS. PENCE AS WELL. DID I SAY MY NAME AND ADDRESS? KERRY ROSS, 206 HOMINGO LANE.

THANK YOU.

OF COURSE. Ms. Stark spoke about the amount of time that it takes to produce these public records, and of course Ms. Pence went over the lawsuit that was just one in our favor, in my opinion, and hopefully in the judge's as well. But what I wanted to detail really comes down to the minutiae of this argument that we had before Judge Bookhart, and specifically the public records and the amount of time that it took for the town to prepare them for Ms. Dennington, who is a managing member of FUNO, AS JUDGE BOOKHART SO ELOQUENTLY WROTE IN HIS OPINION. SO THERE WERE FOUR DIFFERENT PUBLIC RECORDS THAT WERE ARGUED AT TRIAL. THE FIRST ONE, AND I'M GOING IN REVERSE ORDER, IF ANYBODY IS READING FROM THE DECISION, I'M GOING IN REVERSE ORDER. SUBMITTED MARCH 12, ACKNOWLEDGED MARCH 12, RECORDS RELEASED ON MARCH 17. THOSE RECORDS THAT WERE RELEASED WERE 26,000 PAGES OF DATA THAT TOOK FIVE DAYS FOR SID and for Amber to produce. The second one was submitted on March 10th. It was acknowledged the same day. It was produced on April 9th. It was 22 total business days that elapsed from the time it was requested until the time it was produced. The third public record was requested on the 7th of March. It was acknowledged same day. It was produced on March 13th. That was four business days. And it was notably 15 calendar days prior to the lawsuit being filed. So to break it down for everybody, that means that she had the public record and she still chose to file on that issue, if that makes sense. On the 4th, this one was submitted on March 7th. It was acknowledged the same day. The responsive documents were produced on the 13th. That was four business days. And notably, again, that was 15 days prior. It's also notable on one of these that although it took us 22 days to produce, which the judge still said was an appropriate amount of time, it took Ms. Dennington an additional 15 days to pick up these very important documents that she had to have that she caused havoc for our town, thousands and thousands of dollars in litigation fees for us. So if anybody is wondering what the purpose of these lawsuits are, I can tell you right now, and I think it's appropriate to interpret Judge Bookhart's decision in the same way, this is vengeance and we're tired of it. And when we vote, in November, I hope everybody in the town, anybody who votes, remembers exactly who she supported and who was supported by her and who supported her. So thank you guys very much for your time. I appreciate it. Good job, everybody. Feeling very confident.

Thank you.

THIRD AVENUE. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSION. NICE TO SEE YOU HERE THIS EVENING. I, TOO, AM GOING TO BE SPEAKING ON THE LAWSUITS. Interestingly enough, it took an impartial judge and two days of a courtroom trial hearing testimony to prove what many of us knew all along. That Mayor Dennington was wrong in her beliefs concerning the town of Melbourne Beach. There is no corruption, there is no collusion. As Miss Ross very well explained, the public records request timeline is just showing a personal vendetta against the town. Interestingly, a few months ago, the mayor talked about things that would be part of her legacy as a mayor. I'm going to encourage everyone to do a simple Google search of FUNO LLC that will reveal her true legacy. FUNO is spelled F-U-N-O-E, and it's an LLC, so you can just put that in Google search. And you will see her legacy, it's lies and lawsuits. So we stand here tonight in unity against the lies and against the lawsuits and we implore the mayor for her remaining time to stop, to just stop with the lawsuits. Her repeated lawsuits against the town have been nothing short of futile and damaging. The accusations that she leveled against staff members crushed morale. It led to resignations of dedicated employees and even former commissioners who could just no longer stand the bullying. I felt the pain myself in the lies that were made about me during our heated rivalry for the mayor campaign in 2023. That is, of course, water under the bridge and I'm in a better place now. But sadly, what remains is the heavy cost borne by the taxpayers, tens upon tens of thousands of dollars spent defending the town in these baseless lawsuits, funds that could have been invested in our community instead. These lawsuits benefited no one, not even the Denningtons. They only served to divide us, stall progress for needed repairs and services, and damage our reputation as a town. Every single lawsuit that the Denningtons filed failed. The only portion of this most recent lawsuit was what was explained by Ms. Ross and Ms. Pence was the stipulation that was already determined prior to trial. So it is my opinion that that too would have failed. But now the town will have to deal with that portion only. So let it be clear that it is only that one portion of the lawsuit. So let's move forward for healing and a better, better days ahead in the town of Melbourne beach. Thank you, commission.

Thank you. All right. See no other public. Is there another public comment? I'm sorry. Please come forward.

Barbara Struttman, 802 Pine Street, Melbourne Beach. I have something to say, and it starts out regarding this town's stormwater meeting that was scheduled for tomorrow, but it's about more than that. I feel we should be spending our money more wisely than we do and increasing our savings here as well. i agree our taxes will have to be raised to address the stormwater issue however the letter i received from the town that the tax be raised 12 percent per year in perpetuity there was no end date to the raising of this tax I suggest we set the tax increase for a period of five years. This five year period would give enough time to make significant progress on this project, I hope, and even possibly bring it to completion. We cannot raise our annual property taxes without a sunset date. That would be unacceptable. Thank you for hearing my information today. I appreciate all that you all do.

Thank you. Any other? OK. Yes?

Hi. Good evening.

My name is Corbel Wayland of 606 Shannon Avenue.

Let me get closer here.

so i um wanted to come to the meeting this evening because of the letter that came to our houses about the storm drain my concern is the timing of the letter the fact that it was sent in the summer when it is known that most people are on vacation a lot of people aren't receiving the letter aren't able to come and don't have a voice and Yes, you could send a letter to respond to it. But a lot of people aren't getting their mail, you know, at this time if they're in, you know, wherever they may be vacationing with their family. So the timing of a tax raise meeting, I think, is inappropriate. But it could be handled at a much better time when people are, you know, really here. Obviously, the amount is so trivial that it's basically irrelevant. I FEEL THAT IF THIS MEETING HAPPENS WITH, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE $30 RAISE, WHAT ELSE IS GOING TO BE THROWN OUT THERE DURING THE SUMMER WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, HERE MOST OF THE TIME? I ACTUALLY CHANGED MY PLAN SO I COULD COME TO THE MEETING TO TALK ON IT BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE WHO AREN'T HERE RIGHT NOW. SO THAT'S ONE POINT. MY OTHER POINT IS, AND EXCUSE ME, I WOULD LIKE THE TOWN TO get better at that we shouldn't be sending tax raise notices for vote during the summer. So that's just a suggest a suggestion that I have. Probably not the best topics to to bring it up on because I highly support the storm drain, you know, but here I am because it's summertime and a lot of people can't be here. So that's one thing the second thing is Is this the beginning of what the town is going to see with all of the money that was spent on the mayor's lawsuits? Is this just the beginning of it? Why don't we have the funds readily available? Is it because it was spent to litigate lies? You know, so I just wanna bring awareness to that, that I hope that our funds have been appropriately managed and that this isn't just the beginning of, you know, the flow down of what she's cost our town. And the third thing that I would like to say is, does the town have any plans for recouping the money that, because she's lost every single case, do we have any plans for recouping the money from her? So I don't know if that's been raised, but it just seems very inappropriate that we should have to pay. She continues to lose, and there's no recoup. And she's still our mayor. It doesn't make sense, so. And that's all, that's all. They're really just some things to throw out there into the air and possibly things to help improve, that's all. Thank you. Thank you so much for everything you guys do. Appreciate it. Thanks for everything you do. Yes, you guys are great, thank you.

All right, going once, going twice. All right.

I'm Brian Casasa, 2009 Oak Street. I just wanted to bring up something I don't think has been brought up. On Oak Street, if you're looking kind of southeast on the left side on the walkways, there's multiple houses that have foliage growing over the sidewalk. And it's getting worse and worse. And I think this is really going to be a problem. It's with the kids. All the kids are riding their bikes and walking through that way, going to school to Gemini. And it's really making it where you can barely, it's making it much harder to walk safely on those sidewalks. Because there's two houses particularly where there's a lot of foliage growing over. So I don't know what you know how what the ordinance is that the own if the town can say something to the owners To cut that back or the town can cut that back Really for safety reasons where we're always very concerned about safety of the kids going to and from school uh especially with the e-bikes flying through there too so that's that's another concern um and then these are not just fronds hanging over some are actually large branches now that are sticking out into the sidewalk so i just wanted to bring that to your attention to see if there's something the town can do so hopefully by the time school year starts that can be addressed for the safety of the kids thank you so much sure

All right. I don't see any more we're going to move on with the agenda and we're going to go to the town manager report.

The welcome package you have a couple samples. This is our prototype here this little bag. You have a little bag there. Okay, so this was an idea, a brainchild of the Environmental Advisory Board, and I see Crystal there. They wanted to get out some information about the town, about what we do with the sea turtle season, what you do if you have injured animals, but also what you need to do if you're a new resident, you don't know who to call for different things. So we put this guide together. The first page has a nice little letter from the Town of Melbourne Beach Commission So you may want to just take a look, see if you're okay with everything. This, again, is a prototype. But we wanted to give this to all as a welcome package to new residents. We will have a magnet in there with all the important phone numbers, like Florida Power and Light, you know, police, fire, that type of thing. And one of the residents has made a very cute little tea towel that goes in there as well. So we just wanted to show, there's one in there that's sea turtles, it's really cute. But we just wanted to welcome people and show our warmth as a community and also give them some good information as well. So anyways, we just wanted to see if that's, Something you wanted to do. I think the cost of it is less than $5 a packet just really for the tea towel and for us to print those magnets. But that was that was it and if you guys have if you can take a look at it see the front letter if there's any changes you want to make please let me know. But you know we may be at the most print out a 100 we don't get too many new residents.

How many new met new residents to get a year. I was up and be interested to know that.

um i would say maybe maybe well i know from our parking stickers about 20 or something like that so far this year we've had about 20 and they could be long-term renters as well but they still need that same information but um i think that's what uh when i checked with the office manager that's what she told me but she said it just you know it's a nice way to welcome people into our community i think it's very considerate it's very nice OK.

So it's a very bright kind of thing to do for people who have just come to our town.

Yeah. And it has information about the yoga classes and everything else in the back there. So all the great things to do, the music classes for children, how to get a parking plaque, how to get a parking pass, all that stuff. So it's very helpful information. And I want to, again, thank the environmental advisory board for coming up with this idea you know we kind of used it up a little but you know we really enjoy we really appreciate what you did here so if it's okay I mean I don't know if we have to take a vote on it but you know is there any concerns from the Commission it's under 5,000

That's a great idea could we have it. A welcome to Melbourne Beach link our website with everything that's in this.

We yeah once we you know if you guys are OK with this and you're OK with especially the welcome letter the first page is to make sure you all are OK with the wording. Once I know that you're OK you can just e-mail me separately. Then we'll put that on we can put the link online but but they won't get a tea towel.

Well, it's super charming, and it's a really sweet idea.

I'm going to do a shout out for Trish, our administrative assistant. She was instrumental in doing these, and her mother does the tea towels.

Yeah, she makes them. So it's very special, because she is a resident of the town.

It's great. Thank you. Thank you.

yeah speaking of Trish our wonderful administrative assistant operation spring cleaning has commenced in the town we are cleaning out if you saw the pictures in your report there you see for years there were a couple well more than a couple there are a bunch of file cabinets and things in the main hallway you see the second picture they're all gone So she put them on the govbids.com auction site, and we got money for somebody to take them away. Before that, though, she boxed up all the records, and she is moving forward with our scanning project. So this is Tricia Yeroshita. She is our administrative assistant, and I'm going to make her our office manager. She's doing a really great job, but she also is going to help us move forward with the scanning so that way we have a lot of data online and so I've talked about this and she's a real go getter so you know she's you know volunteer to do that work in addition to everything else that she does for our town. So just wanted to give her a shout out and also let you know that we are literally cleaning up town hall. And it's going to look it's going to like spectacular people be very happy with what's what's going to come along. I wanted to mention that the 6th Avenue seawall project is resuming our public works director Tom Davis has done a splendid job and working diligently with our town engineer to put a big packet together. and the advertisement went out July 13th, so we're already getting a lot of different hits on that, people asking about it, so we're hoping to get that seawall repaired. We're not doing anything about up here right now, but we need to take care of that safety issue and take down that ugly, unsightly orange banner that's on the front of our page, our website page, so people will know that it's safe to use that ramp over there. TOWARDS THAT ANNOUNCEMENT, I WANTED TO MENTION BASIN 10. I KNOW IT'S IN THE BACK IN THE REPORT, THE MATRIX BACK THERE, BUT YOU HAD ASKED US LAST MONTH TO TALK TO one of the residents who came up and Mr. Kenny was Patrick Kenny who came up and had some concerns about you know the water levels in the pipes you know and he had a very good point that how could you get a 400 plus pound you know manatee a third of a mile down a pipe if there wasn't water in it so Tom Davis and I we did speak to him and at first and then we talked to David Baggett who's with Haley Ward And we got David to go down to the site and he just looked down in the pipes. He saw a lot of water and he says, we're going to have to reshoot it. So they are, Tom, I think it's what yesterday they were down there reshooting. Yeah, they started this week. So they're reshooting and they're going to recalibrate their their numbers just to make sure they're correct if it's the solution is going to be the same. But I think the whole point was you didn't want to spending or approving 300, you know, $25,000 for a solution that's maybe going to reduce water like an eighth of an inch or something. So we've done our investigative work and our homework, and we thank Mr. Kenny for his diligence. And anyways, so it's not it's not stop the project. It's just making sure that we're we're going to have the right solution with it. um one had also mentioned that the publication of our updated ordinances is finally moving um it should be occurring soon our interim town clerk said jones was able to get american legal to fast track the publication of that ordinance um which has been sitting there since november so we've been up you know and it just doesn't it's it's not like it's published on paper it's online so IT JUST SEEMS STRANGE IT'S TAKING SO LONG, BUT WE ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS TO MAKE PUBLIC OUR TOWN CHARTER AND ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE JUST THINK THIS DELAY HAS BEEN VERY UNACCEPTABLE AND IT'S ALSO UNEXPLAINED. LASTLY, JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT WE WILL NOT DO A NON ADVALORM ASSESSMENT FOR FIRE SERVICES THIS YEAR, BUT I WILL START WORK WITH STANTEC IN SEPTEMBER TO BEGIN THE FIRE SERVICE STUDY FOR AN ASSESSMENT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2028. That's my report.

So I'd like to make a comment on the last item there. I've that's a huge disappointment to me that we are not going to get this assessment onto the uh after the ballot or as a referendum to go out we were led to believe that we had everything in place and we were on track time-wise to get there and now we're not and so we're a year a year out I know I was pushing for us to get moving on this specific item from the beginning of the fiscal year. I'm extremely disappointed that this fell apart. I'm not sure I completely understand what happened, but this is a lose for the town.

So I can answer part of that. It wouldn't have been a referendum. It would have been something, a fire assessment that you all would have imposed if you wanted to. I spoke with the property appraiser about this. She said the issue is the timing of it and how we don't have a report or any rate at this point because with the budget season coming up, Florida statutes say that there's 55 days after July 1st that the property appraiser has to mail out the notice of proposed property taxes to all the properties and the issue is if we don't have a fire assessment in place at this point with the rates then they can't mail that out so the timing was just off it took a while to get the rfq or the rfp and then get the companies on board and in speaking with stantec as well they thought that it would be a rush to get something onto the non-advalorum assessments for next year as well there's still an option you know it would require town resources to mail a fire assessment out but and speaking with stantec and marie was on the phone too they thought it would be a rush to to get something before fiscal year next year

What's the biggest downside to doing it as a rush?

It would just require town resources. So the town would have to mail out all of the notices. The town would be responsible for collecting all of the fire assessments. The town would be responsible for going after collections of the assessments. So it would just require more town resources and probably another employee of the town to administer that.

And if we put it off to the next year, we're still going to have to do the same thing, correct?

No. So tell me why. I think the idea is to have Stantec start working on this in September or so. And we will have a report for the fire assessment, which would allow you all to adopt a rate for the fire assessment. And then as long as we have a resolution by January 1st, it will be put on next year's non ad valorem assessment rule.

Do we have to still redraft the, uh, we had the resolution 20, 26 Oh two, which was the, um, uh, preserving the use of the uniform method for collecting non ad valorem assessment. That's, um, a resolution you put together for us. We voted on it, approved it and passed it. And my understanding was that was the predecessor for us then to go out for. RFP to find a vendor to do the study that we all understand is required to move forward. So it seems like before we do anything more with Stantec, it seems like that we have to re, my understanding was that that resolution that we submitted to the tax appraiser um was not accepted and that was kind of where the things started to come apart um so do sounds like we need to come redo we still have to do that have a resolution that they accept so are we is there we have a activity to are we going to be expecting to see a new version of that resolution here to

Once we have a report from Stantec and the adoption of a rate, then we would do an ordinance to provide for the fire assessment on the non-advalorem assessment rule.

That's completely backwards from what it was presented to us originally.

Yes. So we were attempting to try to preserve our right to either get a stormwater or fire assessment or police assessment, whatever it was. At the time, we did not know what that assessment would be. So once we know what the assessment would be, if it's a fire assessment and the rate, then we would do another resolution with that. So we were trying to get around that just because we did not have a report. We did not know what assessments we were going to do, but we've reached the time now.

I think we were pretty clear that this first effort was going to be geared towards the fire tax. I don't think that was pretty well understood, I think, among commission and staff. So I don't think there's any confusion there. It's just coming out is very different now than what we were led to believe to the point where they came off the tracks.

so like i said the problem is with the timing and how late it is in the year and that we don't have a report or any right so if it was in i know there's always there's always a timing there was always a timing aspect of it to it and that's why we were trying to move out on it yeah so if we had something say in may with the report and the fire assessment then that probably would have allowed us to get something on the mad on the non-advalarm assessment role but just given the time at this point and that we don't have a report, it's not going to get on there.

Ryan if you could you think you could give us like a timeline of what we need to do so that we we kind of understand because I I think having that report not having that report was in question and then we didn't have the we didn't have the report and then the tax the tax collector said we couldn't go forward right so now going forward if we could just have like what we need to do in the timeline it would probably make it a lot easier for us to understand so that we could not make similar mistakes.

yeah so really the timeline is to get something done before january 1st of next year that's coming up that would be a report yeah with an adoption and an ordinance with that okay um ideally you'd want the report you know probably by november so that would give you at least two meetings october or november so you have two meetings one for the first reading one for the second reading to adopt

And to get that report, we would hire Stantec to create this report.

Yes, and we already have. They have already executed an agreement. Right. So we have that at this point.

Okay. All right. So we haven't seen our budget for 27 yet. Do we have a line item in there now for Stantec to do this rate study for us?

Yes, we do.

All right. Well, thank you so much. Ms. Smith. That was great. We're going to move on Ryan to your presentation.

So that's what I was going to tag off.

You know, is there or is it is it or tell manager this other hand out? Is this not part of your report or.

Oh, no, that is item F 13 F. The budget discussion.

Thank you. And really, the only other issue was just the litigation update. As you all are aware, the judge did enter a final judgment last week in the case. You know the results of that. If you have any questions on that, I'd be happy to answer as much as I can in a public setting.

I do have a question. It's related to that and for the town manager as well. I BELIEVE WE'RE HEADING INTO A FEE SETTLEMENT ARRANGEMENT NEXT. IS THAT OUR NEXT STEP?

YEAH. SO PART OF THE JUDGMENT IS THAT THE JUDGE DIRECTED THE PARTIES TO MEET CONFER TO GO OVER FEES AND TRY TO SETTLE THAT ASPECT OF THE CASE.

OKAY. AND THERE'S I THOUGHT WE NEEDED TO HIRE A SPECIFIC ATTORNEY TO Do that represent us in that?

No. So the hiring of an attorney would be as an expert witness for the fees. We haven't gotten to that point yet, but it's something that might be required depending on how discussions go with opposing counsel. So what the expert witness would do is go through all the bills, determine what's a reasonable amount, whether the billing entries were reasonable or should be in there, and then give an opinion on what the fees would be.

So do we have any kind of time estimate of where we think we're going to have that number, whatever it would be? I would expect within the next two weeks or so. So it would be in this fiscal year. And what's the expectation on payment? Is that something we need to pay?

immediately or is that something we budget for the in next year um so it depends on if we go to a fee hearing or not a fee hearing could be six months from now so the answer to your question is it could be this budget year it could be next budget year we just don't know it would depend on whether the parties can agree on something if they can't then it's going to drag out for a little while longer

Okay, so I guess for the town manager that are we carrying something in there 27 budget to some. Projected amount for for that in the budget next year.

I guess we can put something in there it's been very nebulous to be to be quite Frank. If it was going to come out of this year's budget would have to come out of reserves so.

That doesn't sound like it's that's the case.

Yeah now yes, and that was when we were putting when we were putting a lot of the legal stuff together So I will work with Ryan to see what kind of an estimate we may need it I understand we don't have a real number, but we can probably put some

We I think we need a placeholder number in there for that if it's going to be $15.

Let's put $15 down there. I'd be about worth it.

I wish that was the case, but I don't think that's I know it's not realistic.

I'm just being Joe a sarcastic I guess.

Yeah, I ask a question Mister Butler. Thank you. You may not be able to answer this but we all know there are other lawsuits brewing and do we have vulnerability in those as well as far as paying fees legal fees and if not well if so is there any way to mitigate that vulnerability and you may not be able to have that conversation right now but

No, I can't. I can speak generally. So the other case that we do have with Faneu is the breach of settlement agreement case. The difference in that one and the public records case is that the settlement agreement in that case provides for a prevailing party attorney's fees award. So if we had that in the public records case, then we would be seeking attorney's fees. So that's the difference between the two cases.

Good news. Thank you.

Any other questions for. All right, thank you so much. So now we're going to move on to the consent agenda is there anything any any commissioner feels that anything needs to be pulled from the consent agenda.

Like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda is as posted a second.

All right discussion.

I just like to thank the 2 volunteers for re upping for another tour. Thank you very much.

We're talking about Charles Kane and Gil gouty shout out. Thank you for your service. Yeah. So all in favor of approving the consent agenda. All right great. So now we're moving on to public hearing special orders. I'm not exactly sure what that is said.

That's our placeholder there's nothing under that okay, thank you so much.

All right so now we're going to move on to unfinished business and miss Smith, we're going to talk about the portable pump update.

Yes, okay. During the last regular town Commission meeting I was requested that the that Tom Davis and I public works supervisor obtain an engineering opinion on the use of a portable pump with a 6 inch chose to drain areas that are impacted by heavy rains this came out of the discussion on basin 10 and other basins so we have done that analysis I think fire chief also has opined on it he does not and he's here so he does not think it's a great idea to use our current pumps because they're used more for draining out homes not for the streets because There's a different purpose there. We did ask for three bids, and they came in to about 3,000 per month. to rent it and you have to do for about 6 months. So that be over 18,000 for just one year because you have to you know get the hoses and everything like that. So. Mister Davis came up with a recommendation of buying a pump for the town and it would cost I think a little under $3000 to purchase hoses would be additional um but that was uh with a four inch uh hose not a six inch hose um but that seemed like a more viable solution if that's where um the commission wanted to proceed um and then mr davis is here if you have any any technical questions for him mr davis did you want to say any comments about it if i the fire chief did a more in-depth study but just for an fyi to give a

concept of how much a pump like we're proposing would handle 30 000 gallons in an hour it sounds like a lot of water but the chief did the math and he can share those facts it's it's insignificant is the bottom line we would need multiple pumps pumping multiple hours to move water of one foot on, and I defer to the chief, but it's just not a real accomplishment. And my concern would always be, where do we dispatch those pumps? Who carries priority when we get standing water in the streets that people call flooding? So we can't accomplish a lot with those. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT I DIDN'T WANT EXPECTATIONS TO BE THAT WE COULD RESPOND TO CHIEF WITH HIS AND I WITH ONE OR TWO OF OURS AND REALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE SO JUST THAT MY ONLY CAVEAT I WOULD THROW ON THAT CHIEF BROWN YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THAT

trying to pull up my letter now yeah basically so the fire department has hoses and pumps but they're not meant for pumping out flood water necessarily and there's a lot of considerations that come into pumping that kind of water that would have debris and dirt and chemicals and sewage and stuff in it. So when that stuff floods, that's what gets in the water. And so the other consideration is using fire departments, hoses and pumps for that is that if there is a fire, which is what the pumps are there for, it wouldn't be available in that case, you know, to respond to that emergency. So those are just some some thoughts on that. And also, like Tom brought up, the total amount of water that's there. So like by the time it starts reaching the residential structures on a typical block in Melbourne Beach, so like a 700 foot by 100 foot area, that's like 500,000 gallons of water. So it's a lot of water to move and so you need you know substantial pump to make any sort of difference to pump that down when we're talking about that kind of flooding for a whole you know block that's flooding so if we're talking about a localized you know right in front of one or two houses You know that's that's one thing that we're talking about wide area flooding. You need you know really substantial pumps to do that more than what the fire department has.

There's been some instances in the past where you have pumped some water during storms.

Yeah, we've tried. So in the past we use the fire truck to pump water that does a bigger volume waters like our fire truck is a 1500 gallons per minute. But the risk with that is that that fire trucks if we had to replace it now is over 1.4 million dollars and so just it's risking a expensive pump like that if we were to suck up Something in you know tear up our fire pump the cost or place that would be substantial and so it's it'd be cheaper to If we'd like to go the direction of pumping water out of the streets to buy a dedicated pump for that Because that pump will be a lot less expensive and as well the hose Then it will be to buy fire service pumps and fire service hoses because they have to be rated for different things and with the trash pumps were looking at pumping volume not pressure with the fire pumps were looking at being able to do both pressure and volume and so it's it's a different type of pump that makes sense in different type of hoses.

Well what I was trying to underline was that there have been instances where pumping was needed.

Right and yeah, so and we we do have a pump for pumping out houses. So look at the stuff the flood inside the House we can pump the House out so we do have that pump in the fire department that's available and we've got a floating pump. That can do you know 370 gallons per minute, but at the end of the day, it's there's not substantial of pumps to be pumping out, you know hundreds of thousands of gallons of water. From street so I'm sure town manager can share my Brief on this I wrote a 4 page letter on you know looking looking over all of it with all the considerations that don't take up too much time tonight on that but. She can forward it to you I'm sure yeah.

Comments from the commission thoughts. It's disappointing.

I don't really I didn't really have a lot of faith that this would be a good solution for us. But I was hopeful that it could have been my thought from the last time that it was introduced was the staff who's going to be out there pumping who's going to be in charge of it. The police department has to set up a blockade around it. Where's the water going to be pumped to and as Um, tom said who who is the priority? Where is the pump going to sit? so I think that um I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD STILL MASTER GETTING THE WATER AWAY FROM THE RESIDENTS BY OUR STORM WATER IMPROVEMENTS AND BY OUR SWALES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING, THAT THAT WILL GET IT AWAY FROM THEM AS FAR AS FLOODING. AND I REALLY HAVE MORE HOPE FOR THAT THAN I DO FOR THE PUMP.

COMMISSIONER REE.

The intent of the pump was, I mean, we don't have to pump out the whole volume of water. You only need to, I mean, one inch, two inches would make the difference between somebody being flooded or not. WHEN I FIRST INTRODUCED THE IDEA, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE MARKET WAS FOR THAT, SO THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING FOR IT TO BE EXPLORED. I KNOW YOU CAN LEASE PUMP, AND IT SEEMED LIKE THE ONES I WAS PROPOSING WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT SIZE AND CAPABILITY TO DO THAT. AFTER PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR FOUND THE COST AND THE TERMS OF THE the lease period are substantial. So it kind of makes it less comfortable. This was not meant to be a permanent solution. That's why I wasn't, the idea, yeah, we will fix our stormwater and we don't have, we're not being faced with those issues. But in the time being, if we could do something to mitigate the impact before that is in place that was worth pursuing.

Well, thank you. Thank you for that thought. Commissioner Butler.

I don't have anything to add. It would just be redundant. So thank you.

Well, thank you everyone for exploring this idea. I If no one wants to vote on I think we could table it or keep this information in our back pocket and think about it But maybe might not make a decision on it tonight because it is good information to have and to know that there are smaller pumps inexpensive pumps that we could get but that is probably not going to make as much a difference as we hope they would and that it's about six thousand dollars per season sixteen thousand excuse me to eighteen thousand excuse me eighteen thousand uh to get to have uh one to even rent one of the bigger pumps so let's let's just if everyone's comfortable we'll table that and not vote it down or up just kind of table that and we'll move on uh to scheduling a workshop to discuss the landscape ordinance um interim town clerk sid jones

Okay, so just some background is as you remember last month There was a request by the EAB to schedule a workshop with the Commission To go over the updates to landscape ordinance and at the time it was agreed that we'd scheduled a workshop after the July PNZ meeting the PNZ board made some significant progress in their last two meetings and they believe they will be finished looking at the landscape ordinance and having their draft ready and at their August meeting. So their request is to delay that workshop until after their August meeting. So that's what I'm proposing. And so their meeting would be August 4th. So it would be after that is what they're requesting.

Does anyone have any concerns about that on the commission. Sounds reasonable.

As you is the ab help come on board with that as well.

I've been asking them to provide me some dates that they may be available in August. So they are aware of this request. I I still need some answers from a few people but I haven't had anybody come back and say that they weren't comfortable doing that. So from what I've heard so far it seems to be OK with them. Thank you.

So before we go on to a new business. I would ask for a bathroom break if you don't mind everyone comfortable with that or just have a bathroom break and we'll we'll be back in a moment.

Thank you.

All right, we're going to restart the meeting.

And we're going to move on to new business. And the first thing we're going to talk about is reserve fund policy. Commissioner Tim Reed.

Oh, I'm sorry. Do we need to call the roll now that we're back from recess? Do we need to recall?

Gosh, it seems so redundant. I know. Okay, we'll call roll again.

We'll speed run it. All right. All right. Mayor Allison Dennington is absent. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin.

Here.

Commissioner Anna Butler. Here. Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey. Here. Town Manager Amory Smith.

Here.

Town Attorney Ryan Knight. Here. uh chief gavin brown will be back shortly chief sander here um public works director tom davis will also be back shortly building official jeff parsons here and interim town clerk sid jones is also present thank you so much sid all right so we are going to now recognize commissioner tim reed we're going to talk about reserve fund policy and for those following along that's pages 114 through 116.

Right page 114. This issue, this item is reserving regarding having a reserve fund policy. So to my knowledge, the town currently has no policy or any other documentation defining how the funds in the reserve count are managed or administered. Am I correct with that town manager?

It's very vague, very general.

So there's something but vague or it's just common knowledge?

I don't think there's anything written or documented.

Okay, that's the point so most most Florida cities follow our guidance from the government find out Finance Officers Association GFOA and Their recommendations are basically three regarding reserve fund policies is that you have a Reserve classification and targets, investment policies, and that one is there's actually a Florida statute that goes along with that. And then replenishment and use policies. So under the reserve classification, these are things, different ways you can do classification of it. Under the investment policies, the policies have to do with money that you have invested, you're trying to earn a return on. The Florida statute governs how local governments do that. And then replenishment and use policy then, so this is if you are tapping into your reserve funds, the policy you have on the events that you, and thresholds for the council to use that if it's an emergency or some sudden revenue shortfall. And then replenishment rules. Some guidance or mandate that when you're tapping the reserve funds that you're AGREEING TO REPLENISH THOSE FUNDS IN SOME TIME FRAME. AND WHETHER THERE'S AN INTEREST OR JUST VALUE. In the recommendation, I had written there that have the town attorney draft a reserve fund policy and present to the commission for approval. Some of that might, the town attorney I think probably would surely need to take a look at any policy that we have. I don't know that that necessarily falls under his responsibility. I think it's kind of under our town manager and our finance department to come up with a draft for that. The GFOA has a template that they have there to help you get started in how you want to do it out and that's the next page down, next couple pages down is the template for doing that. So that gives you something to, some place to start from versus a blank piece of paper. Good fiscal responsibility Says you you do this as a municipality So my recommendation is that we have the the town staff draft a reserve fund policy and present to the Commission for approval So is that a resolution a Motion excuse me.

Is that a motion? I?

Yeah, I'll say stated as a motion if you like. So I'll make a motion that we have the town staff draft a reserve fund policy and present to the Commission for approval. And as for a timeline for one that would be done, I think we would be prudent to have that done before we approve the 5th Y 27 budget.

OK. Is there a second?

I second discussion. I'm seeing your face. All right.

And discussion?

I would like to, as far as the timeline, I would like to have the manager's input on, since we do have a slim staff, what that timeline could look like without giving her a mandate as to what we want.

Well, first of all, I think this is an excellent idea to have a reserve fund policy. I have been a member of GFOA for many years in my previous employment, and they're second to none. Eventually, I would like for our town to get GFOA approval for our budget and our finances, but we do have to have structures in place such as this reserve fund policy, so I think it's a good idea. Right now with the budget, I was looking at my sheet, we have the stormwater assessment, we have different timeframes, we have to put that stuff together. The general obligation bond, there's other different advertising, two different readings, and they're all different. and then we also have of course the budget and trim on top of that we also are still in the joint legislative audits and that goes on almost every single day we have calls with them weekly and the only two people really who around to be able to put this together are myself and the finance director so we just have a lot a lot going on right right now I think probably towards the end of September October you know when we start the new fiscal year we might be able to have something in place but we can start working on that structure with our town attorney you know, maybe see if we can see if he can find some like policies with other jurisdictions that we can take a look at. So we don't have to say no, we're not going to do it at all, but we can maybe get started on that by seeing what what might be out there, especially with other other municipalities in Brevard County.

Yeah. And Commissioner Reid did include a sample in there, which is a really good starting point. So it wouldn't take that long to put a policy in place.

So the town is survived without this policy I guess forever. What's is there a downside to having this policy.

Well, there is no certainty on how you handle your reserves. If you say, wow, I've got a manatee stuck in my pipe, do you decide to pay back into the reserves? Or do you just say, no, we're just taking it out indefinitely? I mean, there's no policy on what to or if there's an emergency. you know there's no policy to that so it gives more transparency to what you're doing with the reserves with the money um you know our residents know how you're going to manage the money again if it's going to be replenished um there was one lady here who said she would like to see us you know save more money SO IT GIVES THEM SOME CERTAINTY ON WHAT'S GOING ON, REGARDLESS OF WHO IS SITTING HERE IN THE SEATS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE ELECTIONS DO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CHANGE OVER WITH ELECTIONS, BUT YOU HAVE CERTAINTY WITH THE POLICY THERE.

RIGHT.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF COMMISSIONER REED, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE TO MENTION WITH THAT?

THIS IS GOOD FISCAL POLICY. THIS IS, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NOW, SO IT'S MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO. kind of thing which is not good fiscal policy and we're this is we are a municipal government and those are taxpayers dollars there should be.

But is there any is there any chance of like in flexibility, you know if you set policy and then you all of a sudden you find yourself in a situation where there's a manatee or something unexpected happens.

um because you've set these policies does that lock you in on being able to have the ability to until we have a policy i don't i don't know that we could get ourselves into that situation yeah i mean that's a hypothetical question that certainly and i'm just probably a certain circumstances could get into If this is not like it's the Ten Commandments and it's in stone for the rest of Kingdom come We can we can revise it as yeah, we can put a clause in there too for you know deviation or some flexibility or whatever but I Mean well the other the other question I haven't Recognized Commissioner core.

Did you have a comment about this?

I already gave my comment.

All right, Commissioner Butler. Did you want to say something?

I concur that the policy is necessary, and I think it would also eliminate our debating and, you know, how do I feel about this? How do you feel about it? It's not about how we feel about it. This is what we had input. We will have input, and then it's there, and things are, you know, people know what to expect, and to Marie's point, you know, I think it's, you know, we change up here, but

But this won't change unless there's some need for that and that can be addressed Well, thank you, thank you so much getting a feeling I feel like everybody's in for this and one final question I had though Is there an urgency? To do this when we know that you have a lot of things stacked on your shoulders right now And we have budget season coming in. Is it something that we I mean I can imagine that you know, after budget season, we have time to really delve into this and really make it the way it should be. I don't know. Commissioner Reid, is there urgency here?

I believe there is because we're entering a budget things where we're talking about Utilizing the reserve so I think it's impertinent that we have the policy in place I think the policy is two three pages long The it's not like budget season just showed up It's not like jail act just showed up those things have been in in the workload for a while I think this is CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A FIRST DRAFT AT LEAST PRIOR TO APPROVING OUR FISCAL YEAR 27 BUDGET.

OKAY. THAT'S DOABLE. WE CAN DO A FIRST DRAFT.

CAN YOU JUST CHANGE YOUR MOTION A LITTLE BIT TO FIT THAT INTO IT, COMMISSIONER REED?

I have a motion that the town staff draft a reserve fund policy and at a minimum present the first draft to the commission prior to approval of the FY27 budget. Is there a second? Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Okay, so. Oh sorry, yeah, I apologize public comment, please. We're going to re reverse that vote reverse that vote. I apologize that was out of order.

whatever. Jan Pence, 200 Riverside Drive. I'm not here to dispute the policy. It's probably a great idea. I would just like Marie, if she could, for those in the audience and for those people who are watching this on YouTube, could you please reiterate how much, how many millions of dollars that we have in reserves so that our, because again, you read on ridiculous social media that we don't have any reserves. And I think it's important to note how much money this town does have in reserves in comparison to our budget. Thank you.

That's in our finance report.

I was asking Marie. That was my public comment. So can you answer it, please, Marie?

Yeah, we approximately $3 million in reserves.

So we have approximately $3 million in our town's reserve in this small town with a small budget. Thank you.

Thank you. And just as a point of order, none of the staff has to answer any public comment. If you feel uncomfortable or anything like that, THE COMMISSION CAN GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO ANSWER, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FEEL COMPELLED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION. YOU CAN LOOK TO THE COMMISSION AND SAY, CAN I ANSWER THAT? AND WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.

Joyce Barton, 322 3rd Avenue. I think it's a really good idea, Commissioner Reed. I think it's a very responsible motion that you made in the way you presented it. And I think it is important to have policies in place whenever we have something like that. It seems like there's a lot of money there is a lot of money in there But then we don't want to nickel and dime it with things like the emergency for the manatee or the the line item for lawsuits so yeah, I think it is very good idea to move forward with this and do it in a timely fashion, I think it's it's all doable and I Appreciate the fact that an outline was given and that you're all in favor of it. I think it's great idea. So good job Commission. I

Thank you. I'm not not hearing any con to this to this.

Recommendations so all in favor.

I I okay so that passes for. And we're going to move on the commissioner was a read to paid parking ordinance page one 17.

okay all right so on page 117 this is regarding having an ordinance to address paid parking so to my knowledge the town currently has no ordinance defining how paid parking is implemented enforced or how fees are set or managed AS MY KNOWLEDGE, THE TOWN CURRENTLY HAS NO ORDINANCE DEFINING HOW PAID PARKING IS IMPLEMENTED AND ENFORCED OR HOW FEES ARE SET OR MANAGED. OUR FEE SCHEDULE, THE TOWN'S FEE SCHEDULE DOES NOT INCLUDE PAID PARKING IN THERE. THERE'S NOTHING ANYWHERE THAT I COULD FIND IN OUR ORDINANCES OR ANYWHERE THAT ADDRESSES THIS. MY RECOMMENDATION, AND I'LL STATE IT AS A MOTION, IS THAT WE HAVE THE TOWN ATTORNEY DRAFT A PAY PARKING ORDINANCE OR ORDINANCES AND PRESENT TO THE COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL. BELOW HERE, I LOOKED AT ALL THE NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT DO PAID PARKING BEACH SIDE ANYWAYS, AND THEY ALL, AND I PROVIDED LINKS TO THEIR POLICIES. THEY ALL HAVE POLICIES. WITHOUT THIS, I THINK WE'RE, IT'S THE LEGITIMACY OF OUR PAID PARKING, I BELIEVE, COULD PROBABLY BE CHALLENGED IF SOMEONE WANTED TO CHALLENGE IT.

SO WERE YOU MAKING A MOTION?

YEAH.

All right, have the town attorney draft a paid parking ordinance and present to the commission for approval. Is there a second?

I second.

Okay, any discussion?

Yes.

Commissioner Butler.

I think this is a good idea because we do not have anything in writing. And I think Commissioner Quarry can speak much better than I can on what went on because I think you were on the commission at the time. But what I would like to say is that way we have specific keeping it as it is which is that money goes back to the parks and ocean park pays is able to continue to support fire and police and i would want that in written in because that is how we are doing it that was agreed i think verbally in meetings and it should be in policy commissioner corey um

I think that in order to protect the money that the parks should receive, that the ordinance should be written, I know that there has been times when the feeling has been that someone wants to dip into that fund and use it for something else. So in order to protect that money and make sure that it stays in our parks, I think it's a good idea. But it's it's going to be it needs to be written the way it will work for our town. In my opinion, the other ordinances don't show what the way that our town is. And so I would caution not to use the other ordinances, but to make it about the town of Melbourne Beach and how important our revenue is for our parks to go and stay in our parks. and to pay for a police officer and some of the fire department because that's the way the lease is. And I would also like to request that the lease with the state of Florida for Ocean Park be part of maybe an addendum to that ordinance, be in the ordinance so that it's not, well, where's the lease in the future? That it's part of it if Ryan would do that. But but it needs to be a singular about our town not modeled after I mean Satellite Beach for instance I Don't think that's the correct model for our town.

I was I was shocked by the town of India Lennox That was just unbelievable about slugs and everything you do how you deal with it. Mr. Knight Do you have any concerns about this?

No. There are some issues that you all would have to resolve, such as is there going to be a third party vendor who's going to be in charge of enforcement? Is it going to be a town staff parking specialist or town police officers? So there's going to be issues like that that are going to pop up. Yeah, but I'll get with Marie and go over how the current setup is with the paid parking and verify which

parking goes to what funds so that could be included in the ordinance as well let's say and what about your sense of urgency for this one uh commissioner reed does this want something that needs to be done right away

I THINK IT'S WAY PAST OVERDUE, BUT I WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN THAT BEING ADDRESSED IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE WE VOTE ON THIS?

SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR?

AYE.

OK. Thank you so much. Great stuff. Commissioner Reid, policies for special revenue funds 172 and 175. And that's page 118 to 119.

Right. So 118, 119. This is adjusting policies for the special revenue funds 172 and 175. Those are the Ocean Park and the Rickman Park. Those are the two special revenue funds in our Budget structure for this so I've repeatedly asked the town for the documentation that outlines the the origination and administration of those two funds And plus any documentation of any agreement contract or other with the state of Florida Regarding the implementation and up and or operation of the paid parking that occurs that at Ocean Parks is that's a state-owned facility To date, I have not received anything on either topic or either of those questions other than verbal opinions of what was done and how it's supposed to be administered. In my terms, it's tribal knowledge. My assessment here is that we don't have anything. We don't have an ordinance, we don't have a resolution, a policy. ANY DOCUMENTATION DEFINING HOW THE FUNDS WERE ORIGINATED, IMPLEMENTED, HOW FEES ARE MANAGED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT FORMAT OUR AGREEMENT OR CONTRACT OR ANY OTHER DOCUMENTATION WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA ON HOW WE'RE ADMINISTERING THAT. SO IN ADDITION TO THE ORDINANCE, I BELIEVE THAT WE ALSO NEED SPECIFIC POLICIES REGARDING THIS THAT PROBABLY PROVIDED MAYBE A HIGHER LEVEL OF DETAIL VERSUS THE ORDINANCE OR YOU COULD FOLD IT INTO THE ORDINANCE BUT I THINK THIS SPECIAL THE FINER LEVEL OF DETAIL NEEDS TO BE SPELLED OUT AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS THE INTENT OF THIS IS SO my motion is that we have the uh the town attorney and or the the staff to draft uh the the appropriate ordinance resolution policy or other documentation governing the administration of special revenue funds 172 and 175 and present to the commission for approval and um the timeliness would be i would say in in this is a parallel thing with the uh the ordinance itself

Is there a second? Not hearing a second.

What's the objection?

Does anyone want to mention why they might object to this?

um well and i'm not entirely sure if i totally object if that's the correct word but i spoke to the finance director to kind of get up to speed as to what's going on with this and i i know that she has she meaning miss kerr has spoken to mandy siegfried and mandy siegfried is with government operations. She's a government operations consultant with the Division of State Lands for the Bureau of Public Land Administration. And she has in writing told Jenny what what and I and I think that Commissioner Reid, do you have a copy of that?

I have not received any documentation justifying any of it. Or documenting agreements.

I mean, I don't know if it's appropriate to read what I have in my hand or not. I don't know. Because I didn't.

You know, I think it I mean that's something that we could share well by email to the Commission and perhaps Address this at the next meeting. Okay, you know, okay, so we have greater greater information The other thing could mystery just a question.

That's that's only addressing, you know Part of ocean Ocean Park. So this this is This is just part of To complement the the ordinance so the either that's this information it needs to be in the ordinance or it's carried in and this is in other documentation that we or resolution we have for them within the town or policy like that that Marries up with the marries up with the ordinance I'll be reluctant to approve any ordinance that doesn't address these specific specificity

So one of the one question I had looking over this is you mentioned that there's there's no documentation on how the parking funds were originated implemented or how fees are set or managed. But I know that the fees were raised just before I became a commissioner. I was voted on by the previous commission. So I would imagine that there are some documentation of how those fees were set. Weren't you one of the commissioners at that time?

Yeah.

Yeah, and if that's the policy to bring it to them, that needs to be documented in the policy.

Well, I mean, what I'm saying, it's I mean, it just sounds very, you know, like there's nothing in writing or, you know, there obviously there obviously has been some things in writing and you've even voted on things in the past on this.

So we voted on a fee raise. Yes, that was a part of a budget discussion.

So that explains how the fees were set. You were part of that. you you so what's what's what are you what's the point you're trying to make i guess the point i'm making is you're asking a question here but you were part you actually set the fees you were part of that commission that set the fee so i don't understand why that why that's part of this

I MEAN, WE CAN STRIKE THAT IF THAT MAKES YOU MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I MEAN, THAT'S A FEEDBACK WE HAVE DURING DISCUSSION. RIGHT.

WELL, IT SEEMED ALL VERY MYSTERIOUS, LIKE THERE WAS NOTHING IN WRITING, THERE'S NOTHING BEEN DONE THAT YOU REPEATEDLY ASKED FOR THIS, BUT YOU WERE ACTUALLY PART OF IT. SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S MISSING. AND IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT COMMISSIONER BUTLER HAS THERE IS WHAT'S MISSING, OR AT LEAST PART OF IT.

I don't know what she has. I have not seen it, so I can't. Right. And neither have I.

My understanding is that you did get a copy, and I don't know that. But that's my issue is that your verbiage sounds accusatory, and I wanted to bring this to light that it is in concurrence with what you're saying. There are things that have been written and said and approved.

but it's it's probably not as clear, you know to to to get right.

It's do it's not clear not against the policy and against the accusatory nature of the presentation.

If I may yes, commissioner Corey.

AS FAR AS THE OUTLINING, THE ORIGINATION OF THE TWO FUNDS, WHEN PAID PARKING WAS PUT IN PLACE, THE TWO FUNDS WERE SET UP SO THAT WE COULD KEEP TRACK OF THE MONEY THAT WAS COMING IN BECAUSE THE REASON WHY THE PAID PARKING WAS PUT IN PLACE, IT WAS DONE AS A SURVEY THROUGH OUR RESIDENTS saying that they wanted paid parking, which is free to them, was that we wanted to be able to replace the playground equipment primarily and also have our public works take good care of it and have the cost of that being proven to the residents that it's not their tax dollars, that it is the visitors' dollars that we're accumulating through paid parking funds. And that was the way to set up that visual of, and it's part of our budget every month, we see how much money has been made. And then those two funds, when you look in your budget book that was provided, there is a section in there that shows how much money is sitting there in those two funds waiting for the decisions on what we're going to replace, et cetera. That was why it was originated. It's, I think, still a very good policy to have those two funds to show the residents exactly how much money we're making and exactly how much money is going towards what. It could be also put into the other item that we passed, the ordinance, if if necessary but from a bookkeeping standpoint i think that we're i'm not questioning the excuse me i'm not done speaking well you're you're straying off the topic from a bookkeeping standpoint i think the um two funds and the origination and administration of them speak for themselves thank you

I WAS ASKING A QUESTION DIRECTED TOWARD YOU ON COMMENT TO WHAT YOU HAVE HERE.

OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOT TO BE A RESOLUTION AND THERE'S GOT TO BE MINUTES FOR HOW THESE THINGS WERE CREATED. BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU WOULD PREFER TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN PLACE AND THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN PLACE THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN RESOLUTIONS AND MINUTES AND THINGS THAT ARE ON RECORD ALREADY AND HOW THESE THINGS WERE CREATED. AM I CORRECT IN THAT ASSESSMENT?

WE NEED A POLICY FOR HOW THESE FUNDS ARE ADMINISTERED. That's either that marries up with the ordinance or is contained in the ordinance.

So you feel it needs to be an ordinance, not a policy that was passed by resolution by the commission? You see what I'm saying? There is a difference.

However we get to having the specificity required to do the administration of it, I'm not trying to dictate necessarily how we do it. I do believe the ordinance is required. And it could be structured as such to have the level of detail here. But if that's not, then we would need to have a policy that covers that.

I just want to direct a question to Mr. Knight. Do you have any concerns about this?

no i think and correct me if i'm wrong commissioner reed but i think something that we could do is for the paid parking ordinance to go through the ordinance but then have you know the ocean park money received from paid parking shall be used for this is that sort of what you're talking about commissioner reed where it spells it out what it can be used for and then that way we'll have that in the code and in the parking ordinance as well if that level of detail was there sure but i'm not yeah

May I?

Yeah, Commissioner Corey.

I think that it would be important to state that according to this lease, that has to be in there so that a next commission going forward doesn't think that that can be changed. Right. The language would have to be explicit. Sure.

The lease I've read has nothing in it pertaining to paid parking.

I believe that the lease states what funds that a town receives.

I think you should go read the lease again.

Well, we don't need to get argumentative. It's well taken. Thank you. We need to be cordial.

Do you want to call a vote on it?

That's the process. There actually wasn't a second. There hasn't been a second. You asked for an explanation. You asked for an explanation. But I think that there was a solution presented to us that might be good to your satisfaction was that it gets folded into what we just passed the previous thing and that we asked Mr. Knight to kind of fold it in to the other ordinance and that way we are addressing having a policy on these special revenue funds. What do you think about that?

I've stated where I stand on this. I believe this would marry up with the ordinance or it needs to be encompassed by the ordinance, this level of detail.

So there has been a motion.

I haven't heard a second. Is there a move to second?

If not, the motion dies. Okay. All right so now we're going to move on. We're going to move on to this email and recommendation from Mister Corey run T. Mister Butler.

thank you um i'm ashamed to say that this was an email that mr runty sent to the commission december 16th of 2025 and um we have not addressed it and it's it's a good thing i think so um it's a good thing to address but i apologize publicly to mr runty for not having done this we've had a lot of things going on so I'm going to read it there were a couple there packets there so that you can all see it but my name is Corey Runty gives his address I'd like to respect respectfully ask the town to consider installing a low-profile split rail fence between the parking and roadway area and the park and playground currently there is no physical boundary separating vehicles from the play area this creates an unsafe condition particularly for young children and exposes the town to unnecessary risk A simple split rail fence would clearly define the park boundary, help prevent vehicle encroachment, and significantly improve child safety without changing the character of the park. Upon further research, it appears this is long overdue as there is significant liability exposure as the town is responsible to take reasonable measures to mitigate known hazards. I have suggested this in the past and would like to make it a formal request to, at the time it was to Vice Mayor Cronin who had been in his position for about five minutes, so to request as an agenda item under new business. Funds should come from the paid parking program as this is a definitive park improvement which shouldn't be an issue as this is a low cost, high impact improvement. The type of fencing is commonly used throughout Florida parks as a cost effective low maintenance safety measure. I believe it would greatly improve safety, usability, and peace of mind for families while aligning with the town's responsibility to provide safe public recreational spaces. Thank you for your time. He did provide photos, which there should be some up on the table, of just simple solutions for this. I don't want to volunteer Mr. Davis and his department, but I know that there's been discussion that it could possibly be something that that we could do internally and the costs there's also a cost um sheet included in the packet so minimal cost a lot of a lot of gain for safety and i think aesthetically they're they're attractive and it and it does kind of go along with the with the feeling of the town. So I wanted to bring that forth finally and propose that we ask possibly the town manager and the director of public works get together and figure out what a solution might be and how we might if we can do some of this internally or all of it internally or there'd be donations of of some wood maybe or you know who knows this town is amazing and giving so who knows but that's my story are you going to make a motion on this I make a motion to ask the mayor, I'm sorry, to ask the manager and the public works director to work together to implement this proposal from Mr. Runty and bring it to, if it's over $5,000, to bring it to the commission for approval.

Second.

Okay, is there discussion?

Commissioner Reed? It seems like this is something we could add to the task list. I mean, that's what the task list is for. And that sounds like what you're trying to do is task the town manager in public works. I don't know that we need to have a motion and a vote on this this evening. Mr. Corey, any comments?

I think that in order to ask them to do it, we have to have a motion. And my incorrect mayor. This is a new item so.

Yeah, I think it would probably be best to cover your bases and not and make a vote. I would like our town attorney to make comes right to probably better to make the vote.

Now you should vote if you're directing staff for the manager to do something.

Thank you thank you.

I haven't heard any cons about this is there any public comment. And if anybody from the audience wants to look at these pictures, were these available on the stand for people to see? Yes. Yes. Okay.

Joyce Barton, 322 3rd Avenue. Yeah, I think it's a great idea. And no, you don't put it on the task list. It does go for vote if you're directing staff. And, you know, under 5,000, she'll make the decision. If ever she brings it to you. SO I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL IDEA BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF CHILDREN RUNNING AROUND AND THEIR MIND IS ON THE BALL AND NOT SAFETY. SO IT WILL BE A GOOD THING TO HAVE. AND I LOVE THE DESIGN OF THE SPLIT RAIL FENCE. I THINK IT'S VERY CHARMING AND WILL REALLY FIT THE TOWN. SO I'M IN FAVOR OF IT AND I'M GLAD YOU'RE VOTING IN THAT DIRECTION. SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

Seeing no other comments of a bring us to to vote all in favor. I I all post a. So now we're going to move on. Miss Smith or talking about the roof.

Good evening commissioners. I'm bringing this walk-on item because this is something that has been a deferred maintenance item for a number of years and it can't be deferred anymore. The roof over the town complex is leaking and it's leaking pretty badly. It is now managed to hit our fire alarm system and it's dripping on the, when it rains, it's just dripping on the main fire control panel for all the alarms in the complex and it's starting to also affect some of the detection devices as well on the roof. have some pictures of the roof leakage of the holes that are in the fire department bay area and then the last page I have like you know the area where they had to actually remove the drywall because you know it was leaking so badly and there's the panel there And as you can see, the other picture, there's the little heat detection devices that are on the ceiling that are coming out. And there's another picture there which shows that when it rains, it's collecting the ceiling, and that's why the ceilings are collapsing. We just can't have this anymore. If you go to the second floor you'll find that it's a lot more humid than if you're on the first floor and that's because of the holes and the holes are caused not just by the cupola but also by loose screws that are in the roof. Whenever there's a big storm and gusts of wind, it shakes loose the metal and the plywood from the frame. And so that provides little holes in the roof where water comes through. We are right about to where we're in hurricane season. And I don't think that we can wait any longer on this roof repair. And so I put some documented information in here. You know, Chief Brown and I are extremely passionate about this and moving forward. We did not budget for this but I will remind you that in the past you have voted on approving $200,000 to $300,000 for a roof replacement. We're just asking for repair. Our public works director has been really great about getting some estimates for us and so it would cost somewhere about $75,000 which would include some of the drywall repair as opposed to $200,000 to $300,000. NOW, IF WE DON'T DO THIS AND WE KEEP DEFERRING IT, IT'S GOING TO FALL ONTO OUR FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST ANOTHER $100,000 FOR US TO FIX THAT EQUIPMENT. SO THAT'S WHY I SAY WE CAN NO LONGER WAIT. THE MONEY, SINCE WE DID NOT BUDGET FOR IT THIS YEAR, WOULD HAVE TO COME OUT OF RESERVES. AND I DON'T KNOW, CHIEF, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY.

OKAY.

So we don't need to replace the roof.

Mr. Davis, that's your expertise?

Based on extensive conversations with very experienced contractors, that metal, they've all offered to take it off our hands gladly because they'll install it on another building. That is a very, they no longer, your metal roofs, the gauges, the best gauge you've got now is 39. Those was 45 back in the day when we built this. A lot of life left in that metal. It was the screw down fastener system that lacked in those days. And that's what is happening, is the fact that the new type screws, and I explored warranty stuff in the bottom line. It would be years trying to prove, and the company that made the screws no longer exist.

Thank you.

Wasted money. But yes, ma'am. According to at least three people with extensive experience, that metal is fine if we re-screw the whole roof.

So that leads me to another question, if I may.

Sure.

Do we have to re-screw the whole roof now?

would be the yes ma'am and that's in the 75 000 yes ma'am replacing uh damaged wood uh and uh repairing the the real issue around that cupola that's a complete product with all new screws and by the way at least one guy we've inspected every we went up inside and looked at the entire roof and that damaged the woods isolated to that one area right

Thank you.

Other comments from the commission. All right is there any public comments regarding this.

Actually I'm sorry I'm jumping ahead we have not made a resolution we have not made a

A motion season on this I'll be happy to hear a motion from the commission and you know, I make a motion to approve the $75,000.

The roof. The roof rip repair and the Reese crews and the new screws of the entire complex and drywall said encompass it.

Thank you I second.

OK any any further discussion from the commission if not now public comment.

Bruce Pickett, 1501 Oak. I would encourage y'all to go ahead and do this now before it gets way more expensive. The sheet metal that's up there now is way better than anything you're gonna get if you replace the whole roof. So basically you're paying for the labor and the screws versus the whole roof being torn off and put on. If we don't do it now and if we weight the cost of repairs are going to be astronomical compared to the money that'll take you to fix it now so i'd encourage you all to fix it now while we have a chance to save money that we would have to spend in the future thank you thank you

Seeing no other comments to set a question for you on the Smith. You know in the presentation you mentioned that the commission had previously approved a reef replacement with shingles. How long ago was that was was it the previous commission or was it before that.

I was on the commission.

You were on the commission? Yeah. Commissioner Reed, were you on the commission at the time? Do you recall why you were thinking shingles versus repairing the metal? Kind of hard to remember?

I mean, I assume it was some kind of advice that we were given, but I don't know the answer to that.

If I may, that was their decision, Commissioner Reed can correct me if I'm wrong, was based on what then was the... building official. And who had presented that as an option to reduce cost. It would compare to that.

Thank you I think you're right.

Well, thank you for that is there any other comments from the commission model brings us so was that in the budget as a line item.

No, this was not in the budget as a line item. When you approved it last time, it was going to come out of reserves. Okay. And so that's why I'm asking if you could take this one out of reserves. It's a lot less than what you had approved, you know, a year or so ago. Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye.

Okay, so all for a... Thank you, Ms. Smith. Okay. While I have you up there... Mm-hmm. We have a budget discussion.

Oh yes, we do. I would like to invite that she's the under to come join me for the budget discussion. The last month we had a budget discussion. She's and was not able to join us to talk about a PD and their request and so I asked him to join so he could he could make a proper presentation for the PD request and say he could answer any questions you have.

May I take a one minute?

Should we adjourn for a minute? We're going to adjourn for a moment just for a bathroom break. All right. And we'll be right back while we're setting up the audio visual.

Are we going to get a copy of this presentation? Which you're going to show us right now. Yeah, it's in here.

So I have page 124. Oh, okay.

Is this one?

That doesn't seem to be applied. Yeah, you're right.

That doesn't look like the police's report.

Okay.

get this

Okay, Sid, if we think we're offline, we might say something that we shouldn't, you know, so. Thankfully, we didn't, all right?

Thank you.

All right, we're going to bring everything back online.

Sid, were you OK? Can I hit the gavel? And I welcome Chief Sander to give us this presentation.

Thank you, Chief. Thank you. I won't take a lot of time. I only have 67 slides, so hopefully we should be out of here by about midnight, if that's OK with everybody. So I apologize for not being able to make it last time. I was away, but this time I definitely wanted to make sure that I came up here and kind of explained everything. I've kind of met with almost everybody up there as it is now, one-on-one, kind of went over everything. So if they had questions, they could be prepared for today. But this is going to be talking about what we're going to be looking for this coming year for the budget for the police department. So the only two things that we're going to be asking for this year are going to be raising our... starting pay and entering our police department into a step plan. I'll go over both of those things, but primarily we have to stay competitive in the county like anywhere else and anything else. We don't have any vacancies today. We are at 22 months in a row without vacancies inside our police department, which is fantastic. We did have one in December, but we filled it a week later. So really that month, we really didn't have a vacancy. So we're doing very well inside our police department, keeping people retaining them, and I might add we're making them marketable as well because we're training them and we're raising their competency levels. So what I don't want to get to is the way it was years ago here where people came to Melbourne Beach, they got a job for a year or two, they got trained, and then they went to another agency and got paid more and did other things. So that's what we're trying to stay away from. And the step plan is primarily to fix some of the issues that we've had over the years where we've had merit pay increases and depending on what chief was sitting in the seat at that time determined, you know, this person got a 6% raise, that person got a 5% raise, that person got a 4% raise. So over the years that's compounded and we've had some issues with that in salary alone which I'll get to as well. So the first obviously is the starting pay. have to stay competitive within the county we are the tide for the smallest agency in the county so i'm not coming up here asking for for to be the second highest third highest i'm not even asking to be the the second lowest we're in the bottom we are the bottom um but i think that we have a lot of things to sell here so that helps us out as well as an agency uh believe it or not people want to come to this agency and be a part of our agency which is fantastic um but in order to recruit people in case we do lose somebody We have to be able to be competitive. And when I say competitive, I'm talking about the bottom starting pay of an officer, which is Melbourne Beach, and then the top starting pay in the county, which changes from year to year. Right now, I believe it's Rockledge. That pay gap for the starting pay right now is about $8,800. So you go to Rockledge and you get paid $8,800 more just to start out, right? I'm okay with that. That's actually pretty good for us. When I was here two, three years ago, when I first got here, that pay gap was like almost $15,000. So it was a huge gap. We were able to get it down to eight. Well, as we know, like I've said in years past, every year it's a negotiation. It's trying to keep up with the rest of the... Chief if I could just interrupt you're stepping away from the microphone and I'm the folks at home really want to hear you guys So it you know, it's trying to keep up with the rest of the county because every year Everybody's salaries are going up starting pay is going up raises are going up last year We got a 3% raise most agencies in the county got a five six percent raise so that that gap is getting bigger and bigger again and I have another slide coming up where it's going to tell you where we are now. That's where we are now. Rockledge is the number one at 59,000. We're in the bottom at 51. Still, I'm good with that. Like I said, it's 8,800 bucks is the difference between top and bottom. I think if we get anywhere outside of 10 grand, that's when it becomes a little bit harder to try to recruit and retain people. You have to keep in mind, just say a Rockledge right there, their starting pay is $59,000 this year, right? I have four or five officers that have been here for four years and still don't make that. So they can very easily go to another agency, start off day one, and that's what they're making. But we offer different things here than maybe they do in Rockledge. I go back to our 22 months of not having a vacancy. It's because of our culture. People want to work here. They like working here. They enjoy working here. They have fulfillment. The community really appreciates them. So there are a lot of good things. But at the end of the day, people still have to pay the bills, right? This next slide is what it could look like this year. So the ones with asterisks are going through negotiations. They have unions, they have contracts, so they're going through negotiations currently. So for the ones that I didn't know that are going through negotiations, I just figured in a 3% raise. That's the bottom line, what any agency would probably get. So that's where they will be if they just get a bottom 3% raise. And as you can tell, that gap between top to bottom is now $10,600. That puts us outside of that gap. Last year, we raised our starting salary by $1,000. So we went from 50 to $51,000 last year. And that's fine and dandy, but each time we do those little increases, then I gotta keep asking every year for those little increases, right? So this year I'm asking for our starting pay to jump to $54,000. $54,000 is still gonna, go back, I'm sorry. $54,000 is still gonna put us last in the county in starting pay. But at the end of the day, really shrinks that gap to just under 7,800, I think it was, from top to bottom. That would really help us. And I will say, too, that might help us next year where I may not have to come asking for a starting pay bump because we're still within that 10 grand. It may give us a year or two. We all know with the property tax stuff coming out and things like that, if it gets passed, whatever, however that comes and whatever happens with that, that's going to make things harder in the future. So this is one of the last years that we're going to be able to fix some things that that we have to get us in position. So in case if that property tax does come, we're not asking for this type of stuff two, three years from now. Next one is the pay step plan. So the pay step plan, what it is, is it It allows people to see the future of where they're going to be here in this agency, right? It's a step plan where you're put into the step plan based on your seniority, either as an officer or your seniority as rank, sergeant, deputy chief, so on and so forth. Like I said a couple minutes ago, I have a four-year officer that's getting paid more than a three-year officer. I have a four-year sergeant that's getting paid a heck of a lot more than another four-year sergeant doing the same exact job. So that causes a little bit of discourse amongst people. And that's primarily because of the pay strategies that we've had over the years. A lot of the police agencies in the United States don't have a merit, say, increase where each person gets a different amount. Sometimes they base it off of your annual or something along those lines. We have processes in place to get people up to a satisfactory level. Pay shouldn't be one to get them there. But outside that, like I said, it was a popularity contest for years where one person would get a 5%, one person would get a 3%, one person would get a 2%, whatever the case may be. Or somebody would get hired and the police chief would make the decision, you know what, I like you, you have a year experience, I'm going to bring you in $10,000 more than anyone else. So now, in that instance, we have a one-year officer here, a one-year officer in our town is getting paid $10,000 more. I'm being facetious, but you kind of know what I mean by this. He's getting paid tremendously more than another officer that's been here for two years working in our town for our community. So that kind of takes all that stuff away. Same thing with the sergeants. What you'll see is that a lot of the fixes that we have to make are primarily some of the most senior people. And that's primarily because those people have been here the longest. They're the ones that have been dealing with this the longest over the years. These are the people that have had the loyalty to be here. the longest over the years. I'm talking about a 16-year sergeant. I'm talking about a six-year officer, people that have been here for quite some time and had been dealing with these issues for quite some time. So that's the whole purpose of that. So what it is is you're pretty much put into the step plan by your seniority. So if you're a two-year officer, you're in step two. If you're a two-year sergeant, you're in step two of the sergeant, and so on and so forth. So it kind of puts everyone where they should be in the plan, being paid accordingly to whatever everybody else in that same seniority or rank is making. It also professionalizes our agency as well. It allows people to see a future here, to see where they're going to be in a year, where they're going to be in two years and three years. They can see a pay scale and know where it's going to be and where they're going to be in that scale in two, three years. The IACP, which is the International Association of Chiefs of Police, as well as the Florida Police Association, They all are pushing for these things to happen because it helps retain employees, not necessarily recruit. It helps retain employees means to help keeps employees here. Because let me tell you, it costs a lot of money. If I lose an officer today, it costs a lot of money to get that officer replaced. And it's those little things that we don't think about. It's not just a vacancy. It costs money to replace that person. And if I don't have to replace that person, that's more savings to the town. So this is what the pay step plan would look like. As you can see in the very top, we raised the starting pay to $54,000. What I worked in here was just a 3% raise per year. It was just a 3% raise per step. That can be adjusted every year by the commission. So this doesn't lock us into anything. If we were a... unionized agency and we had contracts, then we would be locked into whatever we would agree on here. But that's not what it is here. We're fortunate enough as a has a talent to not have to have the union dictating what we do or don't do has an agency. But at the same time, it gives the commission, if for whatever reason, Melbourne Beach wins the lottery next year and the commission decides that they want to do a 6% raise across the board for everybody, this can easily be adjusted to reflect that. So it can be adjusted up and adjusted down, but it just kind of gives them a high sight of where they should be and it puts everybody back in line where they should be seniority-wise. What it also does is it also provides a gap between each promotional position. So as a topped out officer, there's now a 5% gap between a first year sergeant. So what that means is you'll never have somebody that's supervising somebody that's making more money than them, right? Because you're a supervisor because of your abilities and your skills, the responsibility level that you have. You should not be supervising somebody that is making more money than you. This will make sure that that will never happen here. It's the same thing down with a sergeant level to the deputy chief level. So between each promotional level, there's a 5% gap. That protects that from ever meeting each other. You know, some of the talk is going to be about, you know, the amount of raises or the percentages for certain people. I don't really think that that's something that we should be looking into and concerned about because of these two things. It comes down to this. Do you believe in the plan? Do you believe that it's a sound plan and that it will fix an issue? and then number two how do we fund it those are really the two things that we should be concerned about with with if we move forward with this or not because there are going to be some other people like i mentioned before that are going to get some pretty substantial raises in this but that's because they've been here longer and they've had to deal with this stuff for years and years and years And that's something that myself and my boss will sit down and do and figure out how we're going to do that. The commission should really make those two decisions. One, is it something that they believe in? And two, can we fund it? And that's pretty much what it should come down to. Annual savings, so just this year alone, $167,500 from the federal government that we were able to buy all kinds of great stuff. I heard a comment before about, well, it's stuff that we wouldn't have gotten, and that's not true. Our computers were failing. We would have had to have asked for them, if not this year, during this budget process, next year. Our rifles were from the Vietnam War era. We would have had to have asked for them sooner or later. So these are things that was a cost savings to this town tremendously. We got two vehicles out of it. Another thing, we won't be asking for a vehicle this year. If you remember last year, we were supposed to get a vehicle. It got taken away, pushed to this year. We're not going to be asking for it this year because we just got two from the federal government. That's another $67,000 in savings that the town's going to have. so if you add it up you're looking at roughly two hundred and thirty thousand dollars that the police department was able to save this town just this year alone um i was speaking to an individual at a conference that i was at just last week who just happens to work for ice um and uh we're in the process to maybe get two more of those checks coming out in the in the area of about 120 000 each so if we get those two that's another 240 000 Our town's going to be able to use for computers and other things that we're not going to have to buy here If you look at the previous budgets and years past from the police department, um, there's been very few No year in the last five years has been like this one where we're pretty much asking for one thing and it's going to cost us roughly 60 000 that's how much it would cost to fix our pay plan and raise our starting pay If you look at it in tune of if Miss Smith is looking at doing a 3% raise across the board, that's roughly going to cost our police department, or the cost for the police department is about 20 grand. Take that 20 grand off the 69 that it would take, we would have to find an extra $50,000 to make this work. If she's looking at a 5% across the board, you're looking at the cost for the police department would be roughly about $30,000. Take that off the $69,000, you're looking at about $35,000 that we would have to find to make this fix. Um, so, so that's pretty much what it is and where I'm coming from and what I want to do with it. Um, I do realize that it is a big chunk of money going into salaries. Um, usually my, my requests in the past have all been for mental wellness, for equipment, for cars, all these other things. And it's always equaled 10 times more than what I'm asking for this year. And like I said in the very beginning, this may be one of the last years that we're able to fix some of these problems moving forward because we really don't know what's going to happen in the future and how strict it's going to be for us to be able to raise salaries and things like that after that. So that is pretty much my presentation. I will open up to questions if anybody has any questions.

If I could just make a couple comments. Policing is really, really hard. It's really hard. And Chief and I have been talking about what we want to do to even further professionalize our police department. And we're looking future forward. He's done a fabulous job with recruiting and retention. He talked about if we have to replace an officer from an HR perspective, it's almost 100,000, if not more. to replace a single officer because you have overtime that has to be paid for the shift that's not being covered you have training that goes into it they have to train for about four and a half months so there's a lot of costs that go into it that people don't see but that have to be born if we lose just one officer we are looking at getting national certification about I think what 90 percent of police forces around the state have that certification

The accreditation, correct.

Accreditation. And what that does is it gives us certainty. It gives us standardization and policies. It reduces risk. It also opens up transparency to what our police department's doing, what they're supposed to be doing. You have somebody who comes in and audits them and says, okay, this is your policy. Let's see if your officers are actually doing what they're supposed to be doing. So that is where we that's our trajectory of where we'd like to go in the next couple of years with our police department. And this is actually an essential part of it is to have this kind of standardized pay scale. So you don't have somebody who's been here five, 10 years and is being paid less than Somebody who's been here maybe two years or something like that. So I told the chief I am a huge advocate of this I'm a huge advocate of where we're going with this and how we are even more professionalizing our police force Thank you great presentation just I got a question for your chief suppose suppose you had an opening and a

police officer from Palm Bay came over and wanted to apply for that but this is more senior officer would you pay them commensurate or would you pay them as if they were new new police officer on.

So we just did hire a Palm Bay officer who was the one that filled our guy in December, Officer Woody Carroll. He had 28 years, I think, of law enforcement at Palm Bay. He was the FTO coordinator. He was a canine. Fantastic officer. He came in day one at $51,000.

Okay. That's what I was interested in.

You know, I, and I love people like that because it brings a tremendous amount of, of credibility and experience into our police department as well. But at the same time, I have an officer that's been here four years and I'm not going to have any, I mean, he's put blood and sweat and tears into our community. I appreciate what he's done in that other community, but our officers have put blood, sweat and tears in this community and I won't put anything over that.

Thank you.

Any questions from other commissioners? Commissioner Reid? Yeah, I had a couple questions, comments. So this step plan you showed us here in the slides, is that the same thing that you presented to us in the one-on-ones we had? Yeah. Is that the same plan? Yes. Okay. yeah I just I'm surprised I didn't I wasn't aware we were going to be talking about this tonight it didn't appear on any agenda or in the package so we're now kind of unprepared to off the cuff now start to talk about it So in your step plan there, you had basically three ranks, officer, sergeant, deputy chief. Correct. So we don't have any other ranks, deputy, corporal, lieutenant? We do have corporals. We don't plan for ever having those ranks?

We do have corporals, but they're not considered hard ranks. They're kind of like a fill-in position when the supervisor's not there, so on and so forth. We have a lieutenant position on the books, but we don't have a lieutenant because when we changed it from lieutenant to deputy chief two years ago, I think it was, or a year and a half ago, something like that, we kept the rank on the book in case we ever needed it in the future. So it's still there, but as of right now, we have no use for it.

OK, I UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU JUST BUT I DON'T. SO YOU'RE IF YOU'RE THAT'S THE PLAN, THIS IS THE PLAN, THEN YOU'RE NEVER HAVING THOSE RANKS. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

OR IF IF LIKE I SAID, IF WE WIN THE LOTTERY AND FOR WHATEVER REASON WE TAKE OVER INDIELANDIC AND WE HAVE THIS BIG TOWN NOW AND I NEED OTHER THINGS, I HAVE THE ABILITY TO NOW DO THAT. AND THIS CAN ALWAYS BE ADJUSTED.

A PLAN BASED ON WINNING THE LOTTERIES. NOT A GOOD PLAN. BUT I DON'T NEED IT RIGHT NOW. SO YOU'RE CALLING IT A FIX. AND SAYING IT'S FOR RETENTION. AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T HAVE A RETENTION PROBLEM.

What I'm saying is that once this contract comes up with these other agencies in the county and the pay goes to what I showed you, where it's probably going to go here coming up, that could happen at any time. I'm not going to stand up here and say that it's going to. I'm just saying that that's typically, if I was to show you the timeline, and I wish I would have brought it in, I apologize. I have a timeline for the last five years at our agency, and it's about from me to that window, and it shows months, and it shows vacancies, right? I'm proud of our 22 months that we've had in a row. But do you know what happened? What was right around that 22 months when that happened? We fixed the pay. That's what happened. We fixed the pay. We got us out of it because our starting pay was $42,800 at that time. So we fixed the pay. And then, lo and behold, people begin to stay. As that gap gets bigger and bigger again, if we don't continually to try to fix it and stay within close, we very well could end up in that same position again. I like to think that I'm doing a great job. I like to think that people love their job and love to come work here. But eventually money does talk when you're so far when you can literally quit here today as a four year officer and go to another agency as a day one officer and make eight grand more. THAT'S VERY TEMPTING TO SOME PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST MAKING $51,000 A YEAR.

SO THE PROPOSAL IN YOUR STEP PLAN WAS TO GO FROM 51 TO 54. SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, 52, 53. NONE OF THOSE ARE ACCEPTABLE OPTIONS?

52,000 was not only because when I worked it out with 52,000, some of the people that would move to their pay plan wouldn't even get a raise this year. because of the way it works out where they go to their thing. And obviously, I can't have somebody not getting a raise this year, something. Obviously, the cost of everything's gone up. So 52 was out. 53 was a viable option. And I actually made a plan for 53, 54, and 55,000 starting out. That's what I did. I kind of picked the one in the middle because I just feel like if we make that small jump this year, I'm probably going to be right back here again next year asking for another small jump and the year after for another small jump.

um with this one maybe i don't have to come back next year and ask for a starting pay jump so if if this were the plan then those would be then there's not a uh a cost of living uh at the end of the day uh as a part on top of whatever is doing here are we are we talking about two increases are we talking about the police department it's considered

a raise. You can call it a cost of living. You can call it a merit. However you want to do it. It's a 3% raise per this scale for our employees. And that's all it is. So they would actually get more than 3% because they're also moving up three grand from the starting pay going from 51 to 54.

Town manager, do you understand my question? Yes.

So I think the question he's asking is, is it an either or do they get the cost of living or the increase that the other employees are going to get? Or is it just a standard three? Or do they get the standard three plus the cola?

THIS YEAR, THEY WOULD GET, BE PUT INTO THEIR STEP, AND THAT WOULD BE THEIR RAISE THIS YEAR. SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE PUT INTO THEIR STEP, AND THEN GET A COLA ON TOP AND COLA.

SO NO COLA PLUS. THERE'S NOT ANOTHER, AS YOU ALL SAID.

THERE'S NO MORE RAISES OTHER THAN WHAT I'VE EXPLAINED UP HERE OF THEM BEING PUT INTO THEIR STEP.

ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. SO IN THIS, YOU ALSO MADE SOME OTHER COMMITMENTS BUDGET-WISE THERE THAT I HADN'T HEARD. or had been presented to us or whatever, so it was interesting to hear that the fact that the CAR request was going to not occur. And then also when we did the one-on-ones we're talking about, the step plan. And you had other asks in there for budget for training, which was, I think it was largely leadership training.

Yeah, it was extra $1,000, I think.

Yeah, so is that still in the ask as well?

It very well could be. It's so minuscule, to be honest. I'll leave it up to boss to figure out if she wants to continue that in or not. I think there was like four other things. Some of them were increases in things that we already have that we have to have. But there was two, I believe, minor asks of $1,000 for travel and $1,000 for training to be able to send people to other leadership type trainings.

Yeah, I mean, since we just opened this up for discussion this evening, I thought we will talk about it all. Sure. Sounds good. All right. That's those are my questions. Thank you.

Mr. Corey, Mr. Butler, do you have any comments?

I had a one on one with the chief and was presented his plan and And I believe in it. I think that the STEP program that he is trying to initiate for our officers is what the town needs to do. So I support it and I support him.

I, too, had a one on one and trust your judgment, first of all, but also I believe in investing in our employees and also having that inequality of somebody with experience and having been here for years making less. That's just H.R. one on one. Not good. Not a good idea. It stinks.

So and those are our most senior people, too. That's right. The ones that better the long.

That's really tough to swallow. So I applaud your plan and I think the set plan is is ideal from what you explained in our one-on-one one-on-one and kudos again for getting those things getting that money and looking hopefully more thank you that saved us a lot of money and we won't forget that.

Chief Sander are you looking for a motion tonight.

No, we're just looking for direction. This is a budget discussion so we're just discussing these items that he was not available last month to be able to discuss so I just wanted to bring that I apologize for not making my agenda item a little more clear about that.

Well, thank you so much is a great presentation. I think it's very meaningful. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And Miss Smith, we still have you on for a budget, but budget is to help me drive here. Oh, no, it's contracting for general fund or we know we're doing budget discussion now because we're doing the budget discussion.

OK. Who? OK, I don't know.

All right, I just want to talk to you about a few issues and things that I just want you to be situationally aware of what we're dealing with. And I do want to have time so that Jeff Parsons, our building official, can speak. So if you could just click the next slide, please. So there was an effective July 1st Senate Bill 4F, and we've been kind of toggling a lot of things on the budget right now, but what it does is it limits our capacity to raise our property taxes. And the threshold for just a simple majority, a three vote, has gone now to the standard rollback rate, which is lower than last year's millage rate. So you can click the next one. so i just wanted to show you now what the the rates are so for a simple majority uh we would have to choose the rollback rate which is the dollar amount rate from last year but not the same millage rate um so that would be the simple majority for a two-thirds vote meaning four out of five commissioners it would be a rate up to 110 percent of the rollback rate Previously for a simple majority, it would have been rollback plus basically the cost of inflation. So now it's just the plain rollback rate. Two thirds now is 110% and anything above 110% to a total maximum of 10% would require unanimous of five votes. Next please. So, excuse me, there was another bill that passed and it is House Bill 1329 and there's a lot of transparency requirements, online financial disclosures, we do all that anyways. They want a quarterly compensation report for our employees and an annual budget calendar, which we've put together in the slides previously for you, I think in the March or April presentation, okay? All right. So there's also in this legislation, a budget reduction exercise where we don't have to take the cuts, but we have to show where we would cut 10% of required spending. And that's not of the whole budget. It is of anywhere. We would use ad valorem taxes excluded from them are law enforcement, fire protection, and any other legally required government services. So we would not be able to attach them. So this is something new that we're going to need to prepare starting in January, uh, for your scenarios for the budget. I was asked to produce this this chart which I guess you have seen before and I'm going to email it to you as well so you can see it. But based on the calculations we are going to propose a millage rate of 4.8386. That does not mean that that's what we're going to end up with. That would be the ceiling of what we would what I'm proposing. We go on to the next one chief. So as I mentioned before, if you look at this, if you look at the lower right corner, that little box there, FY voted proposed millage, your rollback rate is 4.3987. It's not 4.6, but 4.3987. Same is for your majority vote. For three of you to vote for it, it would be 4.3987. Last year was 4.6, so it's a drop in the millage rate. Two-thirds vote is 4.8386, and that is the proposed millage rate I am going to go with. I think it's going to be very difficult to get five votes, so I didn't want to propose anything too dramatic. So that's how we ended up at that rate. Next, sir. OK, and this is all the information off of the DR 420. The county puts in a lot of this data for us, so this is nothing that we produced and it just tells you that maximum millage can only be 10%, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that's the rate next please.

Before you leave that, it's difficult to see. So you're proposing the 110% against the rollback. That's the noise rate you're proposing. So what does that produce in terms of dollars of revenue? I'm not able to read it on what is here.

Yeah, it's right there, $3,512,717. You see the second line below there that is highlighted right above it, total taxes that proposed.

I I see where it is I can't read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know when you when you you and you'll reach a point in your life. I apologize.

I'm going to I'm going to email it to you so you can have it as well. But yeah, it's 3.512 million dollars. OK.

I'm sorry, when do we have to announce what our millage is?

Well, I'm going to get into the key dates for legislation. So the Senate bill went into effect July 1st. The other bill goes into effect January 1st. Next slide, please. All right, this was, I don't know if you remember this, this was our budget cycle. Next slide, please. So here's where it is the commission we have we're drafting our budget and our millage rate and we have to provide this millage rate and the hearing information no later than August 4th. So this is the millage rate that I am suggesting that again that doesn't mean the millage rate we're going to end up with but that is the maximum millage rate that we can vote on. So that's August 4th. And then as you can see, property appraiser sends out trim notices by the 24th. And then in September, we have two hearings. And those dates depend on when the school system has their hearings and when the county has their hearings. We cannot have hearings on those same dates. So that's why there's no specific dates in September there. And then October, the new fiscal year begins. So that is the calendar. Okay.

Thank you miss Smith are you looking for a a motion to to accept this millage rate that as you propose.

Now this is just a discussion I'm going to move it forward unless you unless there is objection dire objection to this.

So it would just move forward by the date August 4th because that's coming up quick.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead if you you know there's no objection to it going to go ahead and asked Jenny to put this in tomorrow.

There any objections from the commission. Do we have any public comment on that. Seeing no objections please move forward.

Thank you very much. Thank you. going to have me. Could I ask maybe if we defer the next I am so that Jeff can go because I think it's very late and I don't want I want him he's been here the whole time and I know that's a big issue the other ones I can kind of defer a little.

Okay, so we're going to just jump ahead to H building Department legislative update recognizing building official Jeff Parsons and it's on page one 68.

Even your buddy. I have some

Jeff for their copies of this provided for the public.

This was a young. We can provide it to the public like but I have not. This was in preliminary and I did not want to be misinformation out in public so that's why not.

If I could get a copy later I can add it to the website for the additions to the packet 100% of the great.

All right, take the floor.

So there are I was asked to give an update on House Bill 803. 803 is also accompanying a companionship House bill to 399 as well as there's some changes in the Florida building code under chapter 1 there's also House bill 299 House bill Anyway, there are several legislative changes that are coming up which affect our ability to charge for building permits. The way we are currently charging for building permits will no longer be permitted. So we will currently we are using a valuation basis. and that has now been eliminated. So by the end of this year, we have to adopt a new fee schedule that meets the current legislative requirements. What I have put together for you is my recommendation for that. There are a few different options in there. There is, unfortunately, I think it's going to we're going to get some pushback from the public because it's going to offset the building permit fees to be more reflective of what those actual costs are and traditionally not only here but almost across every jurisdiction the larger more expensive projects generally paid a lot more which would offset your smaller permits and we're not allowed to do that any longer so those smaller pits permits are going to significantly increase in price um i'm a building official i'm used to getting yelled at so i mean i'm not everybody's favorite person i don't always make the most popular decisions but um i i do what i feel is right and in this case i believe that this is going to be the best way to move forward to be able to keep the building department solvent or if not at least very close um i know we had a workshop um unfortunately it got kind of cut short um but you were unable to get a copy of this at that meeting so i i kind of spread things out and i made it so that you guys can make some comments if you know as you're looking at this i would love some some additional feedback from the council in regards to um on how i put this together I can't come up with a better, this is the best I've got. But I'm absolutely willing to try to make some tweaks based on y'all's input.

So I have a question before recognize the other commissioners some. You are allowed to base your your your permit fees on square footage. Yes, sir.

My understanding that is my under my interpretation.

The of the House bill that yes, we are so a larger project would pay a bigger fee than a smaller project.

They would but it still has to be reflective of the actual cost to process that permit within the building department.

So give me an example like someone's building a mansion versus someone's building a a small addition.

Very the same page again, there's no difference.

But yet when when we review these these records, I mean there's tons of records that we're reviewing even here at the Commission for a giant mansion as opposed to a small.

addition it seems like there is a there is a built-in cost to the bigger projects there is additional cost yes and that is in here to to um because there is a portion of it that's based on square footage yeah but again there's not a huge difference in staff time when it comes to processing that where you see the difference is primarily in the plan review yeah And the plan review costs are, they have to be representative of how much time the plan reviewer actually spends. I love the idea, which was floated last time, about charging per hour for plan review. However, that would put a significant burden on the building department in regards to being able to track all of those hours. in in in not being able to give kind of an upfront cost and what a building permit fees going to cost an applicant.

So you know in your in your fee schedule here you have and of course I think we all just saw this is the first time we're in this but you've got a single family dwelling versus a multifamily dwelling is just a $25 difference in the permit.

It's because the the multifamily dwelling dwelling is going to have significantly more inspections so in in significantly more square footage and that and that this is the number of dollars that's just worth the difference is just $25. no no no if you as you read through this you'll it's per unit per unit so that's actually be double it's it's going to be yes i got you okay yeah i'm sorry okay sorry i wasn't very yeah this is a preliminary draft forgive me okay and there's going to be significantly more square footage and a couple other things just just to make you aware um we have uh significant changes in what we are required to do for reductions for private providers Now we have to do a 25% reduction if they're doing inspections only. We have to do a 50% reduction if they're doing plan review and inspections. There is the 2026 Florida Building Code, which the state of Florida has adopted for December 31st this year. And here in Melbourne Beach, we adopt at the same time, we have a resolution in place that we adopt at the same time the state does. So we will be adopting that code. And part of that code in chapter one is that building permits for the single family homes and some others, but it's going to expire. the next code cycle change. So you're going to have a permit that's valid for three years and that's all going to have to be tracked by staff. Every time a permit's going to expire within I believe it's 30 days of expiration we're required to notify the property owner. Again that's going to take additional staff time. So We're dating all of this with an exact budget at this point. I hate to say it, but it's not an easy task. There are other jurisdictions that are struggling with this same thing. And I've talked to several other building officials. This appears to be the way most of them are going. Indian River County has actually hired someone to do a study. I'm really excited to do a public records request when they get their study complete so I can take a look at that. But that's, unfortunately, that's just kind of the hand we've been dealt and we have to come up with a fee schedule that's going to be reflective of the cost of doing business for that applicant.

Thank you. Some commissioners have comments. Commissioner Corey?

Um, when you, when you have a, uh, single family dwelling, you're saying that you're going to have a permit for $250, but that single family dwelling is going to put in a pool. So are you going to also charge for a pool? $150 to expect. So each item is not just going to be. Here's the plans and it shows the sidewalk, the driveway, everything. It's gonna be dissected into all of these different items on a new build. So if you're putting in a new house with a pool and a sidewalk and a driveway, each thing that's permitted on this schedule would be outside the $250?

No, ma'am. Just the ones that require the additional permits so that you'll have a single permit for the house. You'd have a separate permit for the pool. If they have an accessory structure, that would be an additional permit. But that's just the base fee. there is plan review fees and there are inspection fees that go on top of that.

So, so a $250 item, which is a single family dwelling permit, that's going to have added to it. The other items that are being put on that new construction on that lot, you're going to add those other fees for those other it's, it's, it's kind of like, you know, having picking out your,

your salad and your meal and all that you're going to pay if you're going to pay okay so so that's how this is so well it's it's not for the individual yeah it's not for the individual items but so take for example the average single family home has between uh 20 and 25 inspections those inspections will will um i believe i have in here it's 125 dollars per inspection So that's where it's going to recoup the cost of doing those inspections.

That's what I wanted to hear.

And then 50% of that it would be what it would cost for the plan review. So if you have a permit application that has four inspections So that'll be the $600. The plan review for that one would only be $300. Does that make sense?

So could we be shown like a standardized, like a house with a pool and a driveway and the sidewalk? what that would all be, what all the costs would be.

We can do that breakdown for you.

And also, wouldn't it be per linear foot on a driveway and a sidewalk instead of square foot?

No. The only thing that's a linear foot is for a fence and that's only for commercial properties. Okay. Because the that's another thing we have to contend with is there has been lots of information, false information that's been put out on social media regarding the single-family home properties that have a a project that's valued under $7,500 will no longer require a permit. Well, that's not exactly accurate. What they don't tell you on the social media is it does not include permits that include mechanical, electrical, plumbing, gas, or structural components. So because we are a coastal community here in Melbourne Beach, anytime somebody wants to install an accessory structure, i.e. a shed or a cupola, they are still gonna be required to have to have a permit because those items are required to be engineered to reach our wind design category here. So the majority of items aren't going to affect us. I think the fence is about the only thing that I can come up with that they're not going to have to be able to get it, that they won't be required to get a permit for. But that is something that we're going to have to contend with because I think code enforcement is going to have their hands full with people that have received misinformation.

commissioner butler will effectively have to put together an education program too yeah well i think you made a great point i think you're just seeing some examples of how it works uh because this does seem like an a la carte menu you know and then if you could see what what the dinner looks like then then we get a better uh feeling for it uh commissioner i agree you have a comment i agree with that okay commissioner reed like a sample yeah

Yeah, I had a couple things. So we're talking about HB 399 specifically here. In your initial response here that was in the initial package here, I mean, the last sentence says, we're hoping this goes away. And my response is, well, that's not a very good plan. So now you've handed us this and the company CARP or CAP, THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE WORKING WITH UM YOU'RE THIS WILL APPLY TO YOU YOU HANDLE BUILDING OFFICIAL ACTIVITIES AND PERMITTING FOR A NUMBER OF MUNICIPALITIES I DO RIGHT SO UM EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE SUBJECTED SUBJECT TO THESE THE SAME LEGISLATION OR WHATEVER THEY ARE SO WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING TO US HERE, IS THIS WHAT CAP IS THINKING IS THEIR SOLUTION? NO. FOR ACROSS THE BOARD? NOT EVEN CLOSE. SO THIS IS A SNOWFLAKE JUST FOR MELBOURNE BEACH?

YES, A SNOWFLAKE IS A PERFECT WAY TO DESCRIBE IT. IT IS BASED ON THE BUDGETARY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MELBOURNE BEACH BUILDING DEPARTMENT. STEVE, MY ASSISTANT BACK HERE, HE AND I SPENT many hours going over this and running scenarios just like we were talking about and this seems to be from every permit that we pulled off the system. We tried to target the permit price price being slightly above where it currently is and that's how we came up with these these numbers. Unfortunately because every single jurisdiction is different the demands that the budgetary demands are different in every single jurisdiction. It's really tough to do it a blanket permit fee schedule.

If you have any idea of some of the solutions other municipalities are using and do they look like this or is it a totally different different idea. So

I have like you mentioned I work with several different municipalities and I have one that is really really going to have to be their budget is going to have to be supplemented by the general fund significantly because they are doing a very small per hour fee And it's going to be a very difficult time for the staff there to determine how much a permit fee is going to cost. But that's their decision. They are allowed to do that. And if you wanted to do that here, of course, you are certainly allowed to do so. I don't recommend it, but that is obviously that is your. That's your jurisdiction, that's your ability.

SO IN A GENERAL SENSE WHEN I'M LISTENING TO THIS AND READING THE LEGISLATION, MY SENSE IS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A REDUCTION IN REVENUE AS A RESULT OF THIS. I'M CONCERNED THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. YES, SIR. YOUR UH ORGANIZATION CAP THEY UM THEY DO PERMITTING A PERMIT CLERK ROLE AS WELL AS A PERMITTING OPERATION YES SIR SO UH FOR US SO ALL US OUTSOURCING THE ENTIRE BUILD THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND THE PERMITTING WORK TO UM TO CAP IS IS A IS A THING THAT COULD BE DONE IT CAN IT CAN BUT THAT WOULD BE A HIGHER COST THAN WHAT THAN USING SOMEBODY IN-HOUSE UH BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU YOU WELL I I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BASING THAT ON BECAUSE UH THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE YOU THEY HAVE A BASIS TO SAY THAT BUT UM IF YOU THAT'S YOUR OPINION UM YEAH, THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS. SO WE, THIS IS BY BEGINNING OF, 399 IS THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. SO THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE US TO PUBLISH A NEW BUILDING PERMIT FEE STRUCTURE? THAT'S A, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS COME AS A RESOLUTION THROUGH YOU, THE DETAIL ATTORNEY. AND GET TWO READINGS,

So you could adopt it by resolution. It would just be sort of like the resolution with the fee schedule that we have currently in place. So it would just be changing those.

Okay. This January will be here sooner than we think. Very quickly.

So we're not prepared to make a motion on this. We're just doing this for information at this point.

No, sir. My intention, and I know this isn't probably normal decorum, however, my intention was to give you guys homework and get some feedback from you on this. This is why I left lots of space. And also, before I printed this out, I actually emailed it to Steve so that my email was on the top. So if you wanted to respond to me directly, you certainly are more than welcome to do so.

Had some more comments on 803 if we're if that's where you're going next and Certainly, yeah so a couple couple things 803 is the the $7,500 exemption and this is what they call it an exemption in the in the bill itself so even if someone wants to take advantage of that, there's still a requirement for them to approach the building department and submit paperwork to do that.

In in this packet. I don't remember exactly which pages on there is what's referred to as a planning and zoning review fee. And that is specifically for those items because we still have to ensure that the let's use offense for example that is not going to be put in an area that's not allowed by our local codes and ordinances for example,

all right so let me back let me back up and i'm just going to read from the bill because that's what it says it says to qualify for the exemption so that somebody wants to do something they think it's going to be under 7 500 so for them to qualify for that exemption the the owner the owner's contractor must submit a written request for exemption to the local enforcement agency with a copy of the contract or other documentation demonstrating the nature and the value of the work to be performed so does that require new forms or something on our end to receive those requests for exemption i was trying to avoid that because that causes additional cost on the staff where we cannot recoup that from the applicant

HOWEVER, CONSIDERING THAT IT STILL NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED BY, FROM A PLANNING AND ZONING PERSPECTIVE, THAT WE CAN RECOUP SOME OF THOSE COSTS.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THESE WOULD ALL GO, ANY FILING OF THIS EXEMPTION WOULD GO TO PLANNING AND ZONING FOR APPROVAL?

NO, IT WOULD BE A PLANNING AND ZONING REVIEW. SO IN OTHER WORDS, I WOULD STILL LOOK AT IT to ensure that it was within the within compliance. Right.

So some of the building officials are gonna look at it. So do we charge for that?

There is Yeah, I did. I did associate a fee with that. All right. But a permit will not be issued.

Yeah. So it seems like there's an education part that goes along with that. And that for the public, A lot of people are just going to stop at the, they're going to read $7,500 exemption. I can just do, I don't have to do it. I just go do it. So I think there's some public education has to come out from, from the town that I've realized that people need to, uh, DO THIS. AND THIS IS IN EFFECT NOW, RIGHT?

THE 7500 IS IN EFFECT. IT WENT INTO EFFECT JULY 1ST.

JULY 1ST, YEAH. SO THEN I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION RELATED TO THAT IS ENFORCEMENT ASPECT OF IT. SO IF WE FIND IF FOR SOME REASON WE DISCOVER THAT SOMEONE IS DOING THE WORK AND THEY DIDN'T FILE FOR THE EXEMPTION, THEY THINK EVERYTHING IS GREAT BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDER $7500. Do we need language for issuing penalties for doing that? Or is our current language already addressed that?

I will defer to Mr. Knight.

Yeah, so essentially it would be a code enforcement violation. Right. For them not pulling a permit. Some of the difficulties you get into that is if it's in the backyard, trying to determine what exactly was done because the code enforcement officer. Yeah, those are the standard. The property. Yeah. It's like anything else. But yeah, if there is a violation, then they could be brought for the special magistrate with a fine of $250 or up to $500 a day.

OK, SO THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF THE EDUCATION STUFF THAT NEEDS TO GO OUT THERE. SO JUST LOOKING AT THIS MONTH'S REPORT FOR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, THERE WERE 65 PERMITS ISSUED FOR JUNE. SO I WENT THROUGH AND COUNTED. 22 OF THEM WERE VALUED UNDER $7,500. So that's like 34%, you know, a third of them were under $7,500. So that means if they meet the qualification, let's assume they do, that we have no revenue from that, right?

Well, those qualifications, as you spoke about earlier in regards to being able to meet that exemption, if there is mechanical, electrical, plumbing, they can't get those THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR THAT EXEMPTION AND THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF THOSE PERMITS ARE HVACS AND MAYBE A WINDOW OR TWO SO THOSE WILL STILL REQUIRE PERMITS YEAH SO RIGHT IT'S A MIXED BAG BUT THERE'S STILL A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WOULD BE I MEAN SO IF WE JUST ASSUME THAT THAT'S THE YOU KNOW

a third of these a month were and and they just and they under our current thing they would just qualify for the the minimum 79 fee right then that's you know you're talking about that was a 1700 revenue loss just just in one month um so you know if that's kind of the you just try to extrapolate that out over a year you're you know that's probably talking about maybe close to 20 better part of 20 000 perhaps of revenue uh reduction uh potential for for doing for doing that so um which is about eight percent of our budget so yeah so in in our budget for this the current year we had two hundred thousand dollars budgeted as what we thought our revenue was going to be for um permits permits so i'm thinking and you know looking forward for 27 i i don't think we should be thinking we're getting that number or or more i would i would say my rough guess is that i think it's probably going to be 20 reduction there i can say i hope not mayor yes uh commissioner corey is commissioner reed finished i can come back to him

Our planning and zoning is a volunteer. i don't understand how we can charge 75 unless it's staff time to prepare for those meetings it'll be staff that will be doing those reviews not our plan so then that would have to be titled differently but planning and zoning still looks at everything to make sure that it is according to our ordinances not for those types of permits that's only for permits that are under the 7 500 no matter what they are, except for the mechanical that you've outlined, plumbing, electrical, structural, mechanical, or gas.

So the only permit that I can find that meets those qualifications is going to be a residential fence permit. Right.

Well, also people putting in impervious.

That doesn't require a permit.

But it is against our zoning or our ordinance because we have a percentage of impervious to pervious. So if somebody has got $6,000 worth of pavers, that would still have to be looked at from a pervious standpoint. So where I'm going with that is that that would not necessarily go to a planner, but don't we need to have something like that as part of this menu as far as pervious for drainage?

So the that is why I have the the the um the plan roof the the sorry the uh yeah the um the land development code a plan review I guess you could call it um it is not necessarily going to the planning and zoning department it is just being reviewed for planning and zoning is being reviewed for land development code

so it's a planning and zoning review it's not going to the planning zoning department it's not going to the town planner okay so so i think i'd retitle it staff review for planning and zoning something along those lines and i can certainly do that yeah and i just i just want to bring up something that i think commissioner reed hit on something very very important is that this is already in place right and and the town townspeople don't really understand it i don't really i'm just starting to understand it now we really need to educate them all right And I would I would love to hear a motion in regards of getting the town to educate, maybe something online, something emails or something along the lines so that they can understand what this means. Because, Jeff, what you're saying It actually sounds a lot better than I thought, isn't that? It's it's only yeah. Well, it sounds like, you know, fence a fence is going to be the thing that's opted out. Everything else is going to still have a lot of oversight before it's done.

The vast majority of I do believe it will.

Right.

um the problem is you're going to have contractors coming in here and telling the residents they don't require a permit that's where we're going to have the issue and that's why we need to educate right well our education efforts are going to fall on our residents not those contractors coming in that have their ear and they're going to listen to their contractor unfortunately

we can hope for is that the people that are out there doing the renovations are licensed yeah and that they knew and they know that they understand there's penalties if they there's penalties right um commissioner reed um i was just gonna say that um

Asked perhaps that the town manager wanted to if we should consider In the fiscal year 27 thing can look at considering further outsourcing of the building department as a as an alternative to For dealing with this due to the reduced revenues that would be coming and And then it also alleviates us of the requirement of meeting the standard for the fee being tacked to the effort required to issue the permit. CAP bills us to issue a permit. Our answer is that's how much it costs the town to issue the permit.

i'm a little bit confused we already we already have this being done by cap we have a building official position filled by cap correct so we are already outsourcing so i don't understand expanding it to be a permit person as well but that's additional cost when we're talking about losing

We don't know what that is yet. I'm asking that we get the...

I would assume it would be more than our not highly paid employees.

I don't like to make assumptions. I'd like to see a number as something to compare with. I'm not saying do any. Make a change. I'm just saying...

Thank you.

So just explore it. But I you know, I'm I'm happy to hear him a motion about this education, you know how do we educate the town of Melbourne Beach about this issue so that they don't get a looked by a contractor get into a pickle. and do something that they end up having to pay a penalty for because they misunderstood or misrepresented what's going on. How would we get this word out? I mean, I know a lot of people are watching us at home at YouTube, probably about 75 people at most, right? But that's not the whole town. Tell your neighbors where the camera's at. So maybe, Ms. Smith, what do you think would be a great way to do that?

WELL, MR. KNIGHT AND I WERE JUST CONVERSING HERE ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, SOME TOWNS THEY HAVE, LIKE, THE HB 803, AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF HAS A BUNCH OF, LIKE, Q&A'S, LIKE, WHAT DOES IT INCLUDE, WHAT DOES IT NOT INCLUDE, THAT TYPE OF STUFF. WE COULD PUT THAT OUT. WE COULD PUT THAT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. HEY, SOMETHING TO KNOW. I'm sure that we have a list that Steve Steve probably knows at the back of his you know back of his hand of all the contractors who come in and out as well who can who we can educate on this you know we can put out like a one-pager or something like that so there's a number of different channels we could use all right is this something that needs a motion or you think that's something that we can task you with doing what do you think Ryan is that something that probably needs a motion

Might as well just so you're just so we're consistent. OK to do something. I'm happy to hear a motion.

I'll make a motion that. Our town manager and our town attorney work on the best way to educate the community the residents and the contractors as to the changes in the statute statutes and what they mean for each individual.

Okay, I'm sorry now is there a public comment no any commission reading the comments no

Can I ask a question? You said that a lot of this is going to come across the code enforcement, but our code enforcement doesn't really get involved in the building details. So I don't understand how it would fall into the code enforcement's hands. Because they're not going out looking for people that are building something to put a stop order on. That's always been the building official in the past. And I didn't see a fee on here for a stop order.

If there's not there should be I believe I had it listed at 250 For stop work order But and if it's not then I apologize that needs to be in there and that's what I had $250 for a stop recorder Currently, there's no fee associated with it so wouldn't the assistant that's in the building department and yourself go around the community and find violations not our code enforcement it's going to be mostly depending on people complaining about somebody doing work without a permit is where the vast majority of it comes from yes i can go around and look but by doing that i'm still within the bounds the same bounds um and restraints that a code enforcement officer would be so if i see somebody working on a property and i can barely see it i can't go onto the property and look i i have the same restraints that the the code enforcement officer would have but

from in the past, the previous building official would have an idea of what permits are happening. And so if that building official was going around and saw somebody quickly adding on an addition, let's say, it would be like, well, wait a minute, I didn't give a permit for that. And that was really, and code enforcement would not have any idea. And that's why code enforcement in the past has never done that. It's always been the building department. When our previous building official came on, the first thing that happened, I think, It was in one of the reports that about 39 stop orders were initiated from unauthorized permitted structures.

So if I was a an in-house building official, that's exactly what I would do. So that's being contract really right being contract. We don't typically do that. So it falls to your code enforcement to do that.

And nobody has told him.

And oh, we've we've we've spoken about this at length.

He knows there's a lot there's a lot going on. Yeah, yeah.

OK, there is a motion on the floor.

Any further discussion?

OK so just to reiterate that we're asking that the town staff and town manager to to coordinate with Ryan to educate the town about HB 803 the ramifications and penalties. So that there are towns aware of these things right all in favor aye aye aye. OK so thank you so much Jeff appreciate saying so long yeah, thank you and the Smith, I think you've got the floor again.

I always have time for the other items.

Thank you we do we do we're good we're getting there.

I know we were almost on OK. The next item, I believe, is the general fund projections. I think that's.

Yes. Contracting for general fund projections.

Yeah. So, you know, I've looked at the finances and I had not seen and I asked our finance manager if we have general fund projections out, you know, five years, which is typical, maybe even 10 years. And we we apparently don't do that. get out. And I think with the passage of Senate Bill 4F, which I mentioned in 1329, I think there are a number of new budgetary restrictions that we need to take a look at, you know, from a financial perspective. Usually when you do projections, you're looking at what you've done in the past and you're projecting out, but with the possible homestead tax credit of $150,000 and then $250,000 next year. We don't really have modeling for that. So I talked to Stantec. I talked to PFM, who's our financial advisor. And these folks are advisors for non-ad valorem. They do that kind of work. And I think I gave you three examples from Stantec of what they do. We can piggyback on some of their contracts. I know what Stantec definitely. So I think it's a good idea for us to do that. So what essentially what we will do is we'll know generally what maybe our revenue is going to be what our expenses are going to be and then therefore projected millage rates you know to see to remain viable as a town and I think we need that kind of insight you know at least as we navigate through this these studies typically cost between 25 and 30 thousand for the initial study And it doesn't necessarily have to be something that comes out of reserves. It could be something we do in this coming fiscal year. We can budget for that. But I just wanted to get direction from the commission whether or not you thought it would be valuable.

I definitely, you know, I'll just speak first. I think it's valuable. It's certainly valuable. The question I have is, you know, we don't know if this bill is going to pass or is signed into law. Would we have to, if they did this study, would they have two options, one if it passed, one if it doesn't?

would you know because you would hate they could do it after the vote after that way you know yeah but I mean for purposes of budgeting I just know now so I can put it into the fiscal year 27 budget all right that's great and so I just you know but it's a little chunk of money so I just wanted to know make sure that that's something that it's not something that needs to be done right this moment is what I'm saying we can make the decision but they're not going to do the study right now because we're waiting to find out I think I mean they could you know predict you know even without it because they know what it is you could do either way. We could do it now if we think that we need it, but I you know we can wait we can wait for that but either way just wanted to know whether or not this is something a tool that you wanted me to proceed with.

Any any thoughts commissioners commissioner Reid.

YEAH, SO I'M OPPOSED TO SPENDING ANY MONEY IN THIS FISCAL YEAR FOR DOING THIS. IF YOU WANT TO CONSIDER A LINE ITEM FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, THEN WE WOULD BE MAKING A DECISION ON THAT AS PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS. IS THIS LIKE THEY DO, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING IT'S LIKE A ZERO BASE BUDGET APPROACH? IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE DOING?

I'm not sure what you're asking me with the zero-based budget approach.

A zero-based budget is where you systematically, methodically go through the process of determining what your actual needs are versus just looking at last year's budget and going,

I mean I think they can do either depending on you know what you want and how much you want to spend to be honest and there's a couple examples in there and I think one is a zero base budget for cocoa yeah so they they did do that for them and then there's some shorter examples which are more like memos which is more kind of like what you were saying with

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS WOULD BE KIND OF A TIME INTENSIVE THING FOR YOUR STAFF BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IN ORDER TO DO THIS ANALYSIS. IT'S NOT LIKE WE JUST SAY, YEAH, GO DO IT, AND THEY GO OFF AND DO IT. THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, WELL, GIVE ME ALL THIS. all this information and they'll come back with questions so there's there'll be you know a burden in in workload in association with that just not just to recognize that that comes is a part of it is as as well so i guess and so the fact that we're so we're looking for outside we so we don't think our in our financial department we have any capability to kind of make the basic um projections for this and that we need to go outsource this.

I don't think these are basic. I think these are different because we have different parameters that are being put on us that nobody really knows the ramifications. I think these folks have models, built-in models that they can develop and do modeling and simulation. They can give us different scenarios. I don't think we have that capability necessarily right now with the staff that we have, and that includes myself.

So even tagging on with another tile, we're looking at 25 to 30 of these. Yeah, I mean, I talk to the city of Cocoa as much would be a bigger deal, I think, than town of Melbourne Beach in terms of so.

Well, I talked to Stantec and I talked to PFM and they said that because we're not they said part of it is also if you're a repeat customer, it's a lot cheaper because they already have your base data. so they would have to you know build that model um based on our on our financial data um but like i said we can do this for the next fiscal year because it is it is uh as you pointed out a fair amount of work to get that information and we are under the jlac right now we are we're we're barely treading water when it comes to that when we approached um

STANTAC, THEY RESPONDED TO OUR RFP RELATED TO NON-AVALORUM TASKS, RIGHT, STUDY. SO THIS IS NOT RELATED TO THAT AT ALL. SO DO WE NEED, WOULDN'T WE NEED TO, THIS IS VERY SPECIFIC, DO WE NEED TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER RFP, WOULD WE NEED TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER RFP PROCESS TO GO OUT TO SAY WE'RE LOOKING FOR FINANCIAL Projection services or I don't know what for lack of a better term and then.

Look at bids and no we wouldn't in if it's Stantec we would not. They have these 3 examples here we can piggyback off their contract and that is a completely legitimate way through our procurement rules to piggyback off a contract.

Mister Corey.

At the very first sentence is that this is needed to meet the requirements of the new bills. Could you elaborate on that? We have to do something like this? It's a budgetary requirement in order to meet the terms of these new bills. And so wouldn't we have to budget for it for 2020 for our next budget since it's a requirement? And this opportunity to piggyback, it makes that cheaper for us.

Well, what I'm saying here is that there's new burdens. It's not necessarily that the study, I'm not saying that this study is needed, and I apologize if I wrote this sentence in a way that was confusing or misleading. It's just that these bills pose new requirements on conducting certain budget reduction exercises. If you recall, the slide said that we had to figure out where we would take a 10% cut, that type of a thing. So if you have a study like this, it's a lot easier, it becomes more precise when we look at these things. If you look at the COCO study, they look at people's different line items here, water bill service, mobile homes license, et cetera, et cetera. So they really do a thorough job of it so you can have a more comprehensive budget discussion than the ones we have had previously. So that's what that's all I was saying is that we're going to be required to do these other things and it's helpful to have this as a tool and that's all this is is really a budgetary tool and it also helps us to make better decisions.

So we have to provide them with all the information. They don't go into any spreadsheets or anything that we've already provided. They download the information. We have to give it all to them from a staff time.

Well, we have to give it to them or if it's something that's publicly available, they can get that. But sometimes what our CPAs have may not be available. But we would have to provide that to them. We would have meetings with them. We would work with them to make sure that their models are correct or if there's any kind of other things like special taxes or other things we have, make sure that that's included or not included. It's it's a whole process to get that model set up and then once it is it it makes it makes decisions more objective, you know then you know thinking you know, oh it's we're not gonna have enough fees for this or we got to do this or that or we got to cut this job because we don't think we're gonna have enough money we will have some certainty that we don't have today in making those decisions and

And to that point, I think it could eliminate some speculation and conversations that have gone on in the last however long years of why did we make those decisions and was there some nefarious act going on? It will be much more transparent and objective, as you said.

It'll be a third party. It's not the town manager and the budget director. you know doing it's it's going to be something that's going to be more objective that you can point to and say well this is you know according to this model this is according to the standard and you know they do compare with other towns and cities to make sure that they are calibrating properly so with all the stuff that um our finance department is having to do now

when if this is approved by the commission, do you think it should be implemented for what budgetary time period?

Well, we can implement those so that we will have it for decisions that we're going to make in January. You know, the budget decisions at the beginning of that process. So we can have that information by then. I think, you know, if we got it, we started the study in October. We should have it by December, January time frame. They said it would take about three to four months. If we do the comprehensive one, they have a short one too, which it doesn't really give you a window, it just gives you for the next five years what they think it's gonna be. Kind of what Commissioner Reed was saying, whether it's something of zero base budgeting or if it is just kind of a point in time.