Town Commission - Regular Meeting

We will call the meeting to order. I'm going to look for a pen while you call roll. Mayor Allison Dennington here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin here. Commissioner Anna Butler here. Commissioner Tim Reed here. Commissioner Sher Corey here. Town Manager A Marie Smith here. Town attorney Ryan Knight here. Fire Chief Gavin Brown here. Finance Manager Jennifer Kerr here. Town Clerk Amber Brown is also present.

Stand to the flag of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisibley and justice for all. Okay. So, we are here March 4th for um a town workshop. March 4th for a town workshop meeting. Um after that at 6:00 we will have a special meeting. Um we do have some material up here. Is this for um this meeting or the next the documents on the on the days?

The one that has salary is for the workshop. The other one is for the special meeting.

Okay. All right. We'll we'll do um a moment of silence and then the civility pledge. Um but I was just curious. Um okay, moment of silence. All right. Um, the town I'll read the civility pledge. The town commission and staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, towards each other, and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments towards the issues. We will avoid personal attacks. I will repeat

that. We will direct all comments toward the issues and we will avoid personal attacks. Okay, we will go to public comment. um general public comments um for items that are not on the agenda. There's just one item on the agenda. If you do have comments related to that, please um please wait uh for that. Although if we don't vote on something, do we still will they still have an opportunity to comment on the topic itself or would we take those comments now since that is what we are going to be discussing as well? What does the commission does the commission have an opinion as to that? I mean, it would help to be able to hear their comments, but you know,

I just think maybe get it started and steer the direction of it and what the, you know, at least the outline of it. So that maybe I don't Yeah, I guess I just because normally that's what we say is that not to comment on the issues because they'll there'll be a public comment on that. However, there's not in the there's not in the agenda itself a public comment on that. And since we we usually take a vote, we usually take public comment on issues and we have a vote, but we don't vote in workshops. So I guess that's what I would like some opinion as to I would I would support I would support it after the presentation if the public wants to make a comment we could recognize them.

Yeah. So that we could then discuss or we could take comments from the public first and then close that and then Okay. All right. So we'll handle that but we'll let the public know that we will then have some public comment period on that topic itself even though we're not voting. So with that said open public comment is right now. It's your opportunity. Seeing none, we will close the open public comment period and we will deal with the item at hand, which is discussion on non-advalorum assessments and hiring of a consultant for the structure of them. And this is Commissioner Reed's item. So, I will turn it over to him to do his presentation and discussion. The floor is yours.

Okay. So, I'll I'll um start off here and I'll speak for a bit and then I believe um Mr. Knight has someformational material to go through uh for for the benefit of everyone. uh kind of background information which I think is be good to use. So uh but anyway so the this is um in relation to the the recent adoption of resolution 2602 uh where where we preserve the use of the uniform method of collecting nonavalorum assessment um and uh we have the request into the town manager to initiate an RFP for for going out to uh get those nonadvalor funding advice and service. All right. So the uh the the subject to be addressed court is the is understanding and u uh soliciting a reasoned special assessment methodology to fund a portion of the annual operating and capital assets associated costs associated with the provision and maintenance of uh the fire protection associated services by the the the the volunteer fire department. Um so the uh fire fire is a is a service. The town provides services. Services cost cost money. The town has to find revenue to to pay for those services. So right now that that revenue stream is largely through um ad adorum tax. um if the town expands services um it needs to to find uh the additional revenue to to fund those as well. So and that's right now our primary means of doing that is the advalorum tax. Uh um do I need to explain advorum and and nonadalorum? Do we think we have that fundamental understanding in in the room?

I think you should explain it. I think at least for the people that are listening. Yeah,

sure. Um if you've if you've looked at your property tax bill um that's you the advalorum portion portion is um it's it's a where the millage is applied to the assessed value of your home and a number you get a number and that's that's your ad valorum tax. So the mill applied to against your assessed value of your property and then that's your adorum tax. So nonavalorm is not not really called a tax it's called an assessment. So that's it's also and people call it below the line. Um so it's it's a it's a it's not based on the value the assessed value of your property. It's determined it can be ranged from a flat fee to some calculated thing based on different different um different factors. So that's that's the primary difference between them that the one that the advorum is against is assessed against your property your assessed property value and nonadvalorum is not. All right. So I kind of want to back up a little bit here and say but talk about how we how I think we got here. So, uh, back in, uh, September of, uh, 2025, the the budget when the town budget was approved to include the addition of three full-time paid fighter fighters in in department 22, which I think um, resulted in about a $300,000 increase over the previous um, fiscal year's uh, accounting costs for uh, the fire department and what the finance manager has given us here I think shows the the the salaries and if you add them

up I guess I'm assuming that that that comes about what I said around 300 uh 300,000 do I have that kind of close miss the total salary is 2484688 for the three firefighters and the fire chief and then you have to include the FICA pension health insurance and health insurance is based on age. So we don't really know that value right now because we don't know the age of the people we're

right. So the fire chief is not a change. So we're really talking about the three new pay positions. So the salary alone it represents 168,000. Then there's whatever burden on top of them which is could be up to twice what the the just the base salary amount is. You say burden. You mean benefits?

Hold on just a second really quick. I was waiting for him to get a break actually and you need to wait first. I just want because um I think everyone's referencing there's a document that we have on the days that's not in the packet. I usually at the beginning mention what docket. So there is one document for this this meeting that is on the days that we all have that is being discussed and referenced. I assume there's one on the public table. Okay. And that you'll update the packet later. So if anyone's watching, it will be on lighter if you're wondering what it is. And it looks like it's just a one-page um sort of spreadsheet with some information. And was this prepared by you? Yes. Okay. Yeah. It doesn't have a title, but it's got firefighter salary. It's got two different um things. That's all I wanted to say that the one walk-on document for this. Now, um did you have a I apologize.

Yeah, that was all I was interrupting for.

I apolog. So, I mean, there's a salary and then there's all the other things that go along with having an employee um related to their their salary, their FICA taxes, social security, all all the other things that are that add up um as well. So, I I my I this is the first I saw this when I walked in here, so I haven't really had a time to look at it. Um I my my guess is that that we're we're looking at about a $300,000 increase and I'm just kind of comparing fiscal year this fiscal year to last fiscal year and I don't think I'm far off. So we don't want to get stuck on that. Um so you know just to to kind of get back to where kind of where are we now? So uh you know to date the these positions have have not have not been filled. those three new paid firefighter positions have not been filled and there was a delay. Initially the delay was due to awaiting um final word on the the safer grant um which you finally got we finally got word on that that that that we were not going to get that. Um, and so now the my understanding of the the delay that has continued since that time is that we're trying to figure out how to structure a pension plan to go with that. Um, so I'm I'm not sure where we are on that and I guess if you if you wanted to speak to that maybe a little bit here tonight, Chief, or we it doesn't have to be a part of this discussion tonight. So,

um, excuse me. Yeah. Point of order. This is not about the fire department. This is about the ad valorum taxes for the entire town. Um for the entire town uh income. Am I incorrect in no the meeting scheduled for? Well, but that is everything is that relates to fire all of the various things that we could do an assessment for. And

we did the we did the notice of assessment quite broad because we wanted to capture anything that we potentially could because of the property tax issue. But the fire I think was b probably the major driver because we're dipping in even in the first year into our reserves. So um I I will the point is I don't I'm going to overrule your point of order because I do believe it is relevant. Now if if we want to set a time frame for each person to talk then we could do that. Um if it was a presentation I don't know when the presentation ended and the discussion began but we do have a rule if you'd like to call a point of order on starting um the time clock for each person to speak. That's not what I'm referencing. I'm referencing

Well, the point of order is overruled. Can I point of order is overruled to try to answer Miss Corey's um question there in the in the agenda item under the the subject to be addressed. Um I I I uh did specifically say that the this we were going to talk about the the the the cost associated with the fire department and that's in the that was in the agenda item says it right there body of the agenda item annual operating capital cost associated with the provision of maintenance of fire protection. Yeah. So before you go on could I make a a comment too? Uh no it's he has the floor so we need to continue. Go ahead.

Okay. Unless you have a point of order, but that's all right. I believe Mrs. Butler when he's finished, Mrs. Butler will be next because she had wanted to speak earlier. If if not, then I will let you go next. Okay. Go ahead.

All right. So, the uh I was just trying to kind of give a baseline of where we are currently, how we got here, and where we are right now. So, um that that is the um um that that you know there was the budget was structured to have three full-time paid employees. Um and the all the ifs, or buts for how to pay for that really haven't been resolved in future years. It's covered pretty if they were to happen this year. Um but so um that that's kind of that's that's kind of where the where where we're at and that's we're talking about this in in light of the fact that we also we had the resolution at our last meeting that to to go ahead and approve that us to you know pursue these things. Um, I sent out a link to an email with a link to the city of Casemi um, website and they have a an explanation there of how they went about doing their assessment. I hope everyone had an opportunity to take a look at that. There's it's a lot to read, but it's it's very good in terming the complexities of of what's involved in in trying to do this. is not something you can typically u be that can be homegrown in my opinion. So I guess at this point I was hoping that I I would let the uh the town attorney give his his uh overview on on Avalorum um his his presentation.

I had a question just real quick. Um Mr. Um Reed, did you request this information to be done by the finance manager and that's why it it came on the days um previously or did did she just put this together as part of the sort of helpful information? So in the same meeting agenda item um under attachments, I had things I wrote that the town attorney to provide an overview package for presentation which I believe we're going to see and it also has for the town manager or finance manager to provide a summary of the the labor costs. Okay. So, this was provided in response to that, but you just we didn't you didn't have a chance to read it before, so you needed to ask some questions right at the start. I I couldn't see it until I sat.

Okay. All right. I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. Um, Mr. Knight, did you have something to add? I just had a a brief overview of special assessments whenever you all are ready. Um, great.

It's up to you unless you have questions regarding what was just said. Okay. Um, so again, this is a sort of 50,000 foot overview of special assessments. I'll just go over briefly uh what statute uh gives the town authority to do that um Florida law and special assessments, some of the methodologies that are used and the procedure moving forward if the town would like uh to pursue this option. Um so Florida statute 170 uh 2011 governs special assessments. um provides that the governing body may levy and collect special assessments to fund capital improvements and municipal services including fire protection, emergency, medical services, garbage disposal, sewer improvement, street improvement, and parking facilities. So even though that statute is very broad, I've sort of just tailored this to the fire special assessment because that has uh been talked about the most, but it would also apply equally to all these other um services as well,

parking facilities.

So uh what is a nonadvalorum fire assessment? Commissioner Reed did a good job of explaining the difference between uh advalorum and non-advalorum. Um but essentially a fire assessment is a charge imposed against real property to pay for fire services provided by the local government. Um interestingly it is not considered a tax. There are some similarities with um it being a tax. Both generate uh revenue to pay for services and facilities. Um both a special assessment and a tax are mandatory and can be collected on the tax bill. Um, however, the difference is that assessments must provide a special benefit to the property. Um, and that's really where the consultants report would come into play. Um, they would go through all the data. They would analyze why it provides a special benefit to the property. Um, in other words, the town just can't say, "Let's impose a special assessment because it provides a special benefit to all properties in town." You need to have the data. You need to have the backup for that. And I'll go through um the report that uh Commissioner Reid also sent out earlier as to what uh what what essentially that would look like. Um and taxes are authorized by general law. Uh special assessments are authorized from home rule powers. So the Florida case on this there's two requirements for a non-advalorum special assessment. Again, this is where the study would come into play to help uh prove that these requirements are met uh with data um and analysis. So, the first one is the property assess must derive a special benefit from the improvement, service or facilities provided. And two, the assessment must be fairly and reasonably aortioned among the properties that receive the special benefit. Um the case law does provide that fire

services do provide a special benefit to property. Um however there are some nuances in there. So anything above first responder services uh do not provide a special benefit to the property. Um that's been litigated in the courts and that's what the courts have decided. So essentially um a first responder who is on the scene those services would be covered would be allowed to be covered by a special assessment. Uh however, medical transport um the uh the ambulance that actually arrives there after the firefighters are there or other advanced medical services cannot be recovered by that special assessment. So those costs would not be included in the analysis from the consultant um as to essentially what the budget would be, what the cost of the services uh for the fire department in the town would be.

But a question and this I mean I I think Mr. um Brown um could answer this, but so we don't provide EMS, medical transport or other um advanced medical services. Um some places they do, but in our county, the county has preempted and has like a a special contract, an exclusive, so we don't provide those anyway. So is that or is there a wrinkle there? Is there something maybe that we do provide that? Currently, we don't. Most of the fire departments provide first responder services at either a basic life support or advanced life support level. So, they'll arrive on scene first, but the emergency medical service system for the county and the transport is all through Bard County Fire Rescue.

Okay. Um, but most most of the fire departments respond to those medical calls to provide that first level of initial contact and care until the emergency medical service transport. So essentially that first benefit that first prong of that two-prong it has to have a special benefit. We we that would be covered because fire has already been established by the courts to be a special benefit. The wrinkle you said is that there's other things that aren't covered but we don't do those anyway. So I mean is it fair to say we can check that at least that first one off and say we we're covered on that. So yeah and even if we did even if there was some kind of agreement say with the county for EMS or medical transport in the future or whatever it may be then those would not be allowed. Okay. We could deal with that when we came to Right.

Yep. I think the only and I'm not an attorney, so I'll let the attorney weigh in. The only thing I could see that could be affected in this is as we look at how much of the fire um service and this community can be funded through this assessment. Is, you know, could we fund things like the band-aids on the fire truck, like the medical equipment, or would that fall under emergency medical services? is if the fire department's going out and we have our blood pressure cuffs and our, you know, heart monitors and things like that, would that equipment be able to be funded through a special assessment? I'm not sure. That'd be a question for attorney, but I would think that would be a gray area. And so, and I think that's why most municipalities or cities that that implement this don't implement 100% coverage through the fire assessment is because there's things that fall outside of the purview of the special benefit to the property. you know, is is having a water rescue unit a special benefit to the property? Not necessarily because, you know, the home owners here have boats and they go out in the river, but it's not a benefit to that address, that property, like a firet truck coming there to put out your fire. So, I think,

but that might be also something that we would be able to the analyst will go through all that be able to help us with partitioning out and then accounting for it. And that's what they do. And they when in their analysis, they'll go through and say, you know, this percent of the fire budget is a special benefit to the properties here in town. this portion here is not and so therefore this $10,000 can't be put towards this special assessment I think but again I don't want to take away from attorney Knight but that's my understanding of it thank you for pointing that out though feel free to chime in whenever because you've been dealing with this

um so as far as determining assessment rates uh since the assessment is not tied to property values the revenues do not fluctuate with the changes in the property values this is sort of what Commissioner Reid was talking about how if it's a millage rate and the tax rate is tied to the value of your property, your property value goes up, even though your millage rate stays the same, your taxes could go up as well. Same uh if your property values fall. So, a special assessment uh changes in the economy. Um it does not affect that. The rate um stays the same or it changes uh when the town commission um would determine the level of rates um and the cost recovery percentage each year. It's important to know that any revenue raised by the fire assessment must be used for the fire department. This is not a general fund. It's specifically allocated for the fire department either in full or a specific portion of that. Um but essentially every year uh you all would pass a resolution which would state what the uh rate would be. Um so it would be occurring on a yearly on a yearly basis. Um, so there's several method methodologies. You'll see these uh with the various consultants that provide RFPs if they do. Um, some might have it in the RFPs, some might have it in the actual report. Um, but essentially what it boils down to is any aortionment must be reasonable and not arbitrary. Again, that's where the report would come into play. It's not arbitrary because they have the data, they have the backup, they have the specific factors that they're looking at as far as making the determination of what a proper aortionate aortionment would be. Um, most of the time you'll see two tiers. Um, one tier will be the rate charged to all properties. So, say it's just a flat rate of $100 as an easy example. Um, because all properties benefit equally

from fire protection. Um along with that you'll see also tier two. So this could be a charge based on the value the square footage of the home. And then that way you avoid um you avoid situations where you have a $2 million home that's paying the same uh fire special assessment as a home that's valued at $150,000. There's actually Yes. Yep. Go ahead, Mr. Knight. So I I thought in the in the in the meaning of non-advelorum it wouldn't be based on value but then you're having a a tier 2 charged on the base of value non-advelorum assessment. Is that correct?

So the way that would work is say it it would be a $20 charge for every 5,000 in value of the structure. It's not usually it's not determined by the property appraiser. So what they'll say is this structure is worth $500,000. That's not changing. we're going to charge $50 for every $5,000 of structure value. So, it's not exactly tied into the market value um of the property. It would just be a structure. So, it's one cost. Okay. I'm I'm confused. I'm confused by that.

So, it's almost like you'd have a baseline, right? Like the one the tier one is essentially a baseline default that would cover every property no matter what. You'd always be paying that. And the tier two would be some amount that some some additional properties maybe not all would also get triggered due to the size of your lot, the type, whether it's commercial maybe or residential or the size of your house. There's some there's some leeway in terms of which factors we can decide. Maybe we could say it's the size of your lot or we could say it's the size of your house itself or whatever. But

and again, that's something the consultant would make that determination. I find it very interesting because it's I mean by definition that would be an ad valorum assessment and that would be great. I mean, I'm not against it, but you know, with the with the Florida state legislature playing with the idea of getting rid of property taxes, you know, people were were worried that that everyone would be paying, you know, flat fees and it wouldn't be this progressive tax that the property taxes become like the bigger your house is, the more tax you pay. In this methodology, they're calling non-advelorum uh they're calling it a non advalorum assessment, but they are basing it on the value of your home.

So, in a way, let me clean that up. In a way, you're right. It is there's a component that that maybe does fluctuate based on the So, value is probably not the best word for that. It it should say structure or or value of the structure. So essentially what the r or what the uh main idea is is that this structure is worth $500,000. It's not going to change. Yeah. It's just the structure. It's not the market value. It's not anything like that that's going to go up or down. It's going to stay the same. But this has been going on and this is this is a standard practice. I don't know if it's a standard practice, but it's just it does go on. It's an option that people have used in the past. Um I can Sorry. The um the county does it based on size. Mhm. The square footage.

Yeah. And then the county also bases it upon whether or not it's commercial or residential or multif family. Yeah. So, I'm assuming there's going to be a tier three that's going to talk about commercial on the next slide. So, no, it's it it's usually two tiers. Sometimes with that tier one, you'll see a distinction between residential and commercial, but normally it's they only use two. Um, but you know, there could be reports out there where there's three or more. So, the county does does the commercial separate because based on what kind of business like a restaurant has a much higher chance, right,

for needing the fire department services. So, that is a different

um I don't know what that calculation is, but it is a different a totally different calculation. I I don't know what the nomenclature whether tier one or two but I not just the county practically every city and every county in the state that does any kind of assessments they usually do have a distinction between residential and commercial and one of the discussions that was at the legislature about the property tax issue was that well it's going to get shifted to assessments and then the the commercial the commercial properties do wind up paying a lot more like the assessments are a lot higher for them so that they're you know it's going to go up. But do you do you happen to know for the county because you mentioned the county if they if theirs is like a tier irrespective of the residential or commercial is it like a tier one default amount plus a tier two or is it just one thing and they they base it at the outset on the size of your property? They have a schedule A and in the schedule A it gives the square footage and it gives the exact dollar amount for

within say uh 1,500 to 2,000 square feet there's a dollar amount. Yeah. Usually it's it's done that way and then it's separated. Multifamily is is a a separate charge. Not that multif family is listed as commercial but it's a separate um schedule. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to take over. Nope, that's fine. And I don't know if you talked about it in Tallahassee, but they're currently facing a lawsuit regarding their fire assessment because essentially they have that issue where they have million-dollar homes paying the same assessment as $50,000 home. Yeah. So that'll be in litigation probably for a while.

And so I think that's what the consultant will do is they'll come in and they'll take all of our calls that we've ran for the last 10 years or 5 years, whatever that data set is, and they'll say, "What portion of these calls are going to commercial properties? what portion are going to residential properties? What's the benefit? You know, how how much of what the fire department does is benefiting a specific property here in town versus how much is general responding to a vehicle accident on the corner that's not a benefit to that specific property. And and do you have all that data though? Because we transition to the new system, but we you've preserved all of that data from the last however many years because we will need we will need that.

Yeah, it's all all preserved. So we have we have all that data um preserved for we'll be able to give them but that's that's what they'll do and that's how they'll determine this and just to answer the question. So the counties there there is no tier one tier two theirs is all just tier two and so the consultants when they come in also I think typically we'll will give the governing body some choices and say like these are some options on how we can structure this. We can do the tier one approach. we can do just the square footage and uh property class use code and they'll they'll split those out and say this is what it would look like when we do this for you know some sample properties but that's that's what they do and so maybe that clears up

so you'll also hear talk about cost recovery um impartial and full cost recovery um essentially You mean from the cost of the consultants? No, this cost of the special assessment cost of the services that the special assessment would cover. So, this is just pulled. I believe it's from the city of Sanford. Um, thank you.

Once they do their analysis for the year, um, essentially what you'll have is a document that looks like this. So, what you'll have is like what you see in front of you. Um, again, there's no obligation for the town to fully um to vote for a full cost recovery. Most of the time, you don't vote for 100% of the cost recovery. You could essentially vote for 10% if you wanted to. Um, you could vote for 50%. um whatever it may be. But

I I'm confused. I maybe it's by the use of the cost recovery. So, but you're saying basically that whatever the assessment is, we say that's going to cover 50% of the costs and then we're going to we're going to keep doing like we have using general fund to cover the other. Is that what you're saying? Yes. So, whatever you don't cover, we don't have to decide like we're we're going to make whatever it's the assessment is going to have to cover 100% and we're never like so we don't have to decide that. Right. Okay. Right. All right. You will at some point. So, okay. You will have to decide, do we want to um have the special assessment cover 100% of uh the expenses from the fire department? Do we want it to cover 50%? Whatever it may be. Yeah.

So, at some point with the consultant, you'll get something that looks like this where Well, I mean, no matter what would they they probably would at least say if you were going to cover 100%, this is what it would be so that we could like have an idea like people would at least have Okay. All right.

Yep. So that's exactly what that what that topper row there would be. So essentially you have the allocation which 22 million that would be their budget. Um what they were what they would be expecting to pay in fire services for the whole year. Um and then that's uh essentially what they would expect to get the 19.8 million but with the calculation that would be the 100% cost recovery. So, if you were to vote for 50% that means that you would collect around 9.9 million. You'd have a short a shortfall that would need to be made up from the general fund or other sources.

Okay. And I think to your point it was most people don't choose the 100% route because there's probably some expenses that fire department has that are not that would not be attributable to this and you don't want to get in trouble with and I think that's what the consultant will go through and tell you like you know these are the the safe ways to do it that's you know won't be legally challenged and so I think that's part of why we pay them is to do this big assessment say yeah you know you can assess it at 100%. However, it would open us up to legal challenges of people saying, "Well, if you look in the statute, like that second bullet point says no EMS and you're paying for blood pressure cuffs with your 100%." So, I think that's that's why we pay. I mean, or even like some of the volunteer events, we'd have to segregate those and sort of be like anything anything associated with that we have to.

So, that's that's why we hire the consultant that does that study and and they'll advise you, you know, better than I can on on that aspect. So, all right. Cool. Can you build in the cost of the study itself in that first year? You know, like when you buy a house, you can build in your like, you know, you can put it like with your mortgage or whatever. You can add in your legal costs and your whatever. I wouldn't for the study. Yeah. Okay.

Um, so really the procedure moving forward, um, we already have the RFP that we're working on. Um, getting that sent out. Um, essentially it would be just a selection of the firm. uh we'll need to determine how many firms had uh uh sent in bids for that. Um and then we would do the selection process like we would normally do. Um then at that point the firm would gather the data from fire department from property appraiser um and produce a report uh which the commission would then determine one do they actually want to uh pursue the special assessment um and that what cost recovery would they want to pursue that and they essentially get the assessments on the nad on the non-advalorum tax role and commissioner Reid did send out uh the report from CSM. Uh, but essentially, you know, this is what you look at and this is why you're paying the consultant because they're going to go through everything with the town, the data. They're going to talk about tier one, tier two, why they think this would be the best fit for the town, what they are excluding, why they are excluding it, um the Florida law governing the assessments, and then eventually you're going to get down to the numbers. They're going to take all the numbers from the fire department, from the fire services, and you're going to get something that looks

We're not seeing anything on the screen. if you're showing us something. Yeah, that might help. If we hire a consultant, um they will be able to access like the fire data, correct? there's not some um issue of confidentiality because there a contracted assessment under like is will they be able to access the debt because I'm sure they're going to need it. Yeah, they would we would Yeah. You think?

Yeah, they they'd be able to access it, but the stuff that they're going to be looking at is not so much the details that would be confidential. It's more the same. I mean, really, they're going to be looking at the reports that I typically give the commission every month is like how many calls did we have? What type of calls were they? What were the addresses? Was it in town? Was it out of town? Was it commercial? So that's all they're looking at. So really there's nothing confidential um that you guys look at on a monthly basis.

Yeah. Can we do the meeting we're having now? We are. So, it's fine. But what was supposed to be on here is they'll go through each item. They'll development or they'll develop line items for regular salaries, overtime, special pay, professional services, fee administration, everything associated with any fire service that's provided. They'll assign a budget number to that and then they'll essentially uh provide whether they would attribute that to a tier one or a tier two and what that actual cost would be. So

um just a minute I think that you may be here for the for the six o'clock though. Yeah. So in any event that's a broad overview of a special assessment. Um, if we do pursue that route, we are 100% going to need a consultant for that for that backup information. Ryan, please, please, could you repeat yourself? I I got disrupted by this court reporter coming in. Sure. I just want to just want to have you repeat yourself because I I lost I lost my train of thought. Sure. Thank you.

So, essentially, I was just stating that if uh the commission does wish to go this route, you are going to have to hire a consultant for this. You are going to need that report. you are going to need that data and you are going to need that backup in order to pass a valid special assessment because a lot of these do get challenged sometimes even in in a small and for someone like us if we tried to do this ourselves without without a consultant and we got challenged I mean I doubt we'd hold

it's costly um and it's not something it's a specialized area of law I can say some of the consultants and some of the firms they do have their own counsel that also works with them where They keep track of the documents, the notices, the required court filings because it is sort of its own separate area of law. question and I'm sorry if you did already cover this before when we had talked about the RFP but does the RFP does it did we like is it possible I don't know like to because you mentioned I remember before that some they have attorneys too that's like either part of it or

but did they um do they as part of the RFP if it gets challenged do they is there like a pre-agreement that they also will handle it um you know like I mean we could always we could decide well we don't want to use you we would use somebody else but they can't say Well, you know, we're not like they they if we wanted to use them, they would have to defend it. Yeah. So, you could do that. I know CMI has um sort of that arrangement as well. But um also with attorneys, uh you don't need to send out an RFP for attorney services. That can be separate. That's not subject to um any kind of procurement or anything like that. So,

but I do think it would be helpful to have it mandatory that they would handle it if we like like they couldn't back out of handling it or whatever defending it. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you have an attorney at the outset of this, then they're handling everything all the way through. Okay. If there's an appeal, if there's a court challenge, whatever it is. Good. All right. Question.

Mr. Knight, um just want to get your opinion on u you know, we don't know if the legislator legislature is going to pass these rules to get rid of property taxes. So what is the urgency of us hiring this consultant? Um do we need suppose the legislature changed everything in November? Would we be behind the eightball and too late or would would it be would we be needing to do that right then and there or I mean I just I want to understand the urgency. Do we need to be doing this now? And are we wasting our time if the legislature doesn't pass these rules? And obviously we could still think about doing things uh regarding other I mean we have some non-advalorum uh assessments that we do already right I mean on my bill we have we have we have storm water Melbourne beach and solid waste disposal.

So could you answer and then I have something afterwards to so I just want to I just want to understand the urgency if there is urgency I don't want to belittle it and I want to understand it. Yeah. So really the urgency is a policy decision for you to make. um you know, you've seen the headlines with stuff that's in the work. Yeah. But with stuff like this, I mean, you need to be thinking a year ahead. It's something that you can't just scramble together and have it done. The statute has specific requirements, specific deadlines that you have to follow. So really, it's not for the immediate concern. It's for next year. Gotcha. Is what you're looking at.

I mean, it's the for the immediate concern because like you said, it takes a long time. And so like I think that we it's a time crunch because even if it took them a year depending on what happens like we'll need that when that year is done and they start. Um on your point about the I will say this when I was up in Tallahassee I learned a lot and there there and then there's some recent events too. The rules committee they just they're they are changing the rules. Um, normally you can't um, fund raise during legislative session and they just had a bill to change that so that you can fund raise during legislative session and that is because they absolutely intend to have a they're going to they're going to go into extended session because nothing's come up before the Senate yet, but there is discussion. There is a there is something behind the scenes I've heard and believe that is in the works in the Senate that will be proposed either at the very end of session or during that special session. So there's talk about, well, it's passed in the House, but it hasn't ever been brought up in the Senate. Do not let that lull you into a false sense of security because there is a good chance, almost absolute certainty, they're going to special session, and that that's when the Senate version is going to get proposed. Just FYI. Now, it's I think it's going to be a much scaleback version, but something I do believe will go on the ballot because if it gets something gets proposed in the Senate, then some scaleback version will pass. it'll go on the ballot then it'll be the effective date. So,

right. So, all right. Good. So, we're um so really the next the next meeting um the commission should have an agenda item as to whether or not we're going to vote for this. and um having having that item sooner than later would just mean that we're being proactive and not reactive is a better way to look at it because our budget

starts and we start formulating our budget pretty soon and by having all of that that information pretty much in place and knowing what we're going to do with that I think is is more proactive than being close to the budget end and having to react. Yeah. And I also think I mean I do think we need this for the fire. It's something that was discussed for a long time. But the truth is we also you know we haven't um increased our storm water assessments in like 20 30 years. Um and I think that those haven't really covered enough. There's there's a lot of other things that we

So we're we're like 10 minutes here. So I want to kind of keep us on track. Um, so yes, I I I agree with being the proactive thing and that's kind of why I'm trying to talk about that here tonight. And as as and as the uh town attorney was saying, the the complexity for structuring this is is it's it's it's you need you need professional help. Um you know it's important that you know if we go end up doing this and we're we ensure no one group is bearing the un you know the the the the unfair portion of of you know the burden for doing that or somebody's b is benefiting from a way greater than everyone else. So I mean yeah we need to look it needs to consider residential commercial homestead nonhomestead undeveloped properties you know maybe even your accessory structures. I mean, if you have a some people have a home, if you have a, you know, 3,000 ft of accessory structures, you know, you you there there's that as well. Um, so so there there's a lot to to consider there. So the starting point is to get go off the RFP. The RF by going out for the RFP then we get costs and idea scope that they can do and we would also get an idea of when they could actually think they could produce something for us, right? So even if so that's kind of the first step and then trying to decide if we were going to you know implement it um that has to be there's time there's a timeliness aspect of that too. I think that would need to be into the county tax assessor before September I think is the is the time frame. So uh and that's that's just to get it in for you know on the fiscal year 27. So, we're, you know, there's there's hurdles to get over, but we had to the start is the is going out for the RFP.

And in my opinion, and if I recall correctly, town staff does have directions from the commission to go ahead and draft that RFP. And I I wouldn't see a need for a vote at the next meeting, a vote to send the RFP out. I think they already have that authority to draft that and send it out. Okay. Do we Yeah, because I thought we did already vote on that part. Okay. So really it's just when it comes back. Okay. Yep. And you already have the deadlines. I mean like because there's certain you have to have it u but what what do we set for the time for response? We haven't finalized it yet. Do but do you you don't need us for that? No. Okay. Nope. Good comment. Well, thank you for the presentation.

Yeah. You want to go down the line here starting that end if you have anything? So um we did say we were going to um save time for public comment. So, in case people did want to speak on this issue, I do think we should let them. Yes. Um, I don't I think that we're kind of all in agreement. This is going out. So, when it when it comes back, unless there's anything anybody else, um, thank you for that explanation. Okay. Is everyone okay? We'll go to public comment on this topic and then we will be able to adjourn to start the next meeting because it starts at six. Is there any public comment on this? Come on up, Miss Barlo.

Hi, Don Barlo, 1710 Pine Street. Um, actually, attorney Knight, one additional question because I I just want to make sure that I'm understanding your comment around having the consultants is required because it's a new assessment to point of order. Point of order, I'm sorry. So, um, I was, uh, told by some members of the community that you must have the commission's permission to address the attorney or to ask them questions. Um, so, um, if the commission allows it, um, can Miss Barlo ask the question?

Yeah, I mean, apologies. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I do know that for time, if you have more than one question, you might want to ask like if you had comments, be able to make the comments and ask and then um, if you can answer within a minute, but

maybe this will maybe this will give you some additional scope to it. As I'm sitting here thinking about where our revenues come from, it's coming from advalorum and nonadvalorum. To your point, when you look at today's tax bills from a nad non-advalum perspective, we've got solid solid waste as well as storm water. We heard the mayor mention we haven't had storm water. When I just sat there and looked online for the last 10 years, storm water is the same rate. So again, I don't know the scope of the RFP, but if this commission is looking at non-advalorm evaluation and storm water is part of that, do you include both fire assessment as well as storm storm water and any other items which were brought up?

The RFP is to go out for non-avalorum u consultation services and it's not limited to just fire. The idea being that we could expand it and use that could could expand it and the and the storm water is is a perfect example. That assessment hasn't been touched in 20 years, right? 20 plus years. Yeah. And I just again I just wanted to make sure that we were looking at everything holistically versus linear. Um and yes, in hopes of not, you know, missing anything. So, thank you. I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you.

While she's walking away ne next for later, Mr. Knight, could you look up? We may not we may be able to actually raise our storm water that's already assessed like this year. I mean we might want to consider that. I mean even we but you know any other public comment because it would at least get some money into our budget. I don't but that would be Mr. Knight if you could look at that. Any other public comment? What was your so for raising water? I don't think we're tasking the attorney to do anything.

We'll close public comment. I'm not tasking him to do anything. I'd like to we public comments closed because nobody else came up. My my question was this. We're doing this RFP and it is it's any type of assessment that we could do, but I do know we've had a storm water assessment that was assessed in 2000 and as he said, you basically once it's assessed, you just redo it every year. You can raise it though. Um my question for the town attorney is that we might have an opportunity actually this year before we even get the RFP done and get all the information back. Um but to actually raise that existing storm water assessment that's already gone through this process potentially it would give us some more money um and then we could keep going but I don't know if because that's so old Mr. tonight if you know I'm like I think that we would add the storm water into the RFP so they could look at what really what should our storm water be. But I I think no matter what we know it's too low.

Yeah. I I I think Commissioner Reed answered that question. It's not going to be just fire. It's going to be no all special assessment. So I don't know what your question is. My question is we already ha we've already had a storm water assessment. We don't have a fire assessment right now. We've already had a storm water assessment that we do every year. last year like we have to pass a resolution basically redoing that amount. There's a probably a process that we would have to go through with the county to re-up that. Yeah. And I don't think we can change it in for this fiscal year. I would think anything we would be doing would be probably in the next fiscal year and there's probably a time that uh that that needs to be executed by. So,

so assuming this RFP gets back and they we choose somebody, do they have it all ready to go out for the no like for the next like in the this budget like budget cycle or does it go out in the I don't know. It depends on what information they have, what they need. I don't know. Okay. All right. Is there anything else? If not, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Okay. Second. All in favor say I. I. I. I. All opposed. Okay.