Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

get some um elections done. But uh we do have the mayor with us to give a little bit of a a welcome. Do you want to start with that or Okay, great.

I uh I just wanted to uh you know thank all of you for giving you know accepting the the positions that obviously we got four new members this year and and also grateful for those that have served um already. But, you know, like everything, you know, we're all busy and uh giving up your time is valuable, you know, and so we really do appreciate, you know, the fact that people are willing and prepared to do that for the benefit and for the good of the community. So, obviously it's, you know, new faces. Um, you know, I think, you know, one of the tasks or one of the goals, you know, this year, you know, we we like, for example, we've got an ordinance in front of you this evening regarding, you know, truck plazas or, you know, vehicle plazas is if we can kind of be, you know, proactive in some of these things, you know, so that we're not as much behind the eightball. I noticed that, you know, there's also, you know, an ordinance that being looked at or zoning for the batteries, you know, um I think, you know, when a project like that comes to us, you know, if we can be if we can get that done so that we're ready for it, so we're not, you know, it seems like as a city sometimes we're always behind the eightball and if we can get ahead on one or two of these things, you know, as they have become new. I I was with a in a meeting this afternoon and uh with a number of you know legislators and uh commissioners and you know and they they were sort of saying that how like these um data centers you know they're not you know Minnesota doesn't really welcome them but at some point in time they are going to come to Minnesota because we we do have a lot of positives for them to be here and at the end of the day we do have obviously we've got a cold climate

which helps from a heating and cooling point of view, but we also have some of the cheapest electrical units, you know, in the in the nation. So, if we can be ahead on some of those things, that just helps us, you know, there's a strong emphasis this year on economic development and we've got several projects that are in in the works. You know, one of which obviously is the quick trip one that you guys are going to get to look at. So more prepared like the boy scout be be ever prepared. So again, welcome and thank you very much for your time and your paychecks in the mail.

Thank you, Mayor Hicks. Um, so I think what we'll do is um just get a little bit of business out of the way. if you would be so kind as to just take a look at your agendas, take a look at your minutes, and um we can if we can get a motion and a second to adopt both of those items, then we can move into to our introductions and some of our training before we dive into some discussion. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from November 24th and also approve the agenda as presented.

I will second that. And I think all in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Same sign. Seeing none, that motion is approved. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. Um, since we do have so many new faces, uh, we have had we have four new members with us. Actually, we had several members who had termed out at the end of last year. our chair Sarah Duffy, um Ryan Fullerton, um we had one resignation from Mike Walls who just wasn't going to be able to keep going. Um who am I missing? Who else? Uh Kundi.

Oh, Nate Kundi also um termed out. So, you are eligible to serve um two terms in a row. And so, several of our members opt to do that, but then you're asked to take a little bit of a break in between before you come back. Um so, that's why we have four new members this year. And I would love to go around to maybe do a little bit of an introduction time and um just let us know why you got interested in the planning commission. Um I'll start. I'm Clara Beck. I'm the community development director for the city of Fergus Falls and I act as the staff liazison for the planning commission. I am not a true city planner, but I've been doing it long enough now that I think I know enough to be dangerous, but we are learning along together. Um Alla, I don't know if you

Sure. My name is Alla Elysk and I'm a business owner here in Fergus Falls for 32 years now. Um I have a integrative practice and I work with my husband and a great team of people just to deliver services to Fergus Falls that are contemporary, state-of-the-art. And the reason I uh am grateful to be on this committee is because planning and building is what the future is. And I would like to have the opportunity to maybe give some guidance on how small business owners would want to be in a small community and what it takes. And it takes a lot for any of you that are in small business. It's it it's everyday battle. And so being on this committee uh for this is my second term now. Um I've learned quite a bit. Um the one thing that I hope that we can do is be objective because it's not our opinion. It is our informed you know uh informed kind of ideas of what would make sense for the growth of Fergus Falls. Um my name is Mary Budkkey and I want to say I appreciate the opportunity to serve on the planning commission. I'm honored to be here and grateful for the time and commitment each one of you give to the community. I've lived in Fergus Falls my entire life and this community has shaped who I am personally, professionally, and as a parent. It's where my family has deep roots, my children are growing up, and where I've had the p privilege to build long-standing relationships across many parts of the community. Because of that, I care deeply about the future of our city and the decisions we make that impact it. Professionally, my background is in healthcare administration and community services. I currently serve as the volunteer services coordinator at the Minnesota Veterans Home here in

Fergus Falls. I work closely with veterans, families, volunteer staff, and community partners. And that is reinforced for me the importance of listening carefully, asking thoughtful questions, and balancing individual needs with long-term community goals. And I hope those values I can bring to this commission. Thank you.

Very nice. Uh my name is Sander Hayen. I'm the airport manager and a local business owner. Um I like to see uh what makes the city tick and take a look behind the scenes and see what kind of value can be added through some hopefully logical input and just overall make things better. So um Jeff Stannoski, I uh have served on this committee in the past. I think this would be my third third time, third term now. um certainly see the value in it and kind of would echo what you said all I think that's so important uh my background is in the banking um I uh was one of the founding members of the Bell Bank and town here uh right now my role is uh market development primarily in agriculture across the upper Midwest so I'm I'm dealing with uh a businesses and and all that daily trying to get things going so um everybody's looking for a home everybody wants a place um to do business in And and I think with what with what Anthony is saying is that we got to be that place. We got to be prepared to accept those those uh businesses when they come. We can't be figuring it out once they've asked because it's too late. If we can't if we can't be ready, we're not getting them. So, uh that's my goal.

Um Wayne Shuit. Um, I I am a realtor in town here with Centry 21 and um I honestly cannot tell you how long I've I've been in this position. Think this is your second term. It is, but yeah, it's so hard to keep track. It goes so fast. I think you might have one. This might be your last year. I don't know. I think I think it is, but it goes so fast. That's how fun it is. Yeah, exactly.

Well, let's get started. So, but but I do enjoy it and I I appreciate growth in Fergus Falls and and appropriate growth and proper growth and whatnot. So, however, I can help with that and and once again make good decisions and appreciate being on the on the panel. Great.

Paul Vukinich. I'm a engineer with Artill Power Company. I focus mostly on environmental compliance for electric generating units throughout the three states. Um, also a business owner here in town, but this is my I think third year also on the commission, but I enjoy it because I I work with regulations and statutes most of most of the day. So, it's something I'm familiar with. It's also like it's like it's like the linemen of the city, right? Like they do a lot of work. you know, you gota you got to get these codes right in order for like the Anony's and and the economic development people to land these businesses like the the the all all this like drudgery of codes and zoning needs to be right and needs to be available to be utilized. So I it's been it's been fun so far. It'll be another good year.

Thanks Paul.

You were all very tough acts to follow. Uh my name's Justin Moan. Uh I am now a resident of Fergus Falls for I think 13 months. Uh moved around quite a bit, moved out to the county about 2 and a half years ago and then decided to make Fergus Falls uh our home. Uh and I guess my background is in public administration in various forms. Uh I'm currently a civic health practitioner with West Central Initiative. Uh, I also am the deputy clerk, treasure, planning and zoning administrator, part-time janitor, and any number of other things in a small town out in Ottertale County. Appointed position out there. Uh, really excited to be here and look look forward to working with you folks for well, four years.

Awesome. Thanks. Okay. Uh, well, let's dive in a little bit. you on your desks should have an orientation packet for being on just a general board and commission for the city of Fergus Falls. I will just really quickly run through some of the items that are in there that are relevant to the work that you're going to be doing. Um, first and foremost, your role is an advisory role. So, the ultimate decision decision-making authority within the city of Fergus Falls lies with the city council. So the work that you're doing at this level of the planning commission is making informed recommendations that then go in front of the planning or in front of the city council for their final review. Um it sometimes happens where you'll make a recommendation and it won't be agreed to at the council level and that's okay. That's that's how these things all all shake out. So um but ultimately the decision-making authority is with that city council. You guys are advisory. Lots of times you'll see projects and things kind of in their first or earlier iteration um and then they'll they'll end up going up uh up the ranks to the council for for f further review. So that's kind of how you fall within the hierarchy of the um city decision-m process. As a city commission or a city board um you are beholdened to public meeting rules, open meeting laws. So um you will note that we are in a room with microphones um and we are also recorded. So all of our meetings are recorded. We do try to stream all of our meetings on YouTube so they are available for the public to watch in real time. I don't know if streaming is working tonight. This is not making me feel like it is. Um but uh we always even if streaming doesn't work, we will put your meetings up um first thing the next morning once they're done buffering. Our IT department will get those live. So, um, if anybody is asking questions about planning commission, wants to see how a decision was made, that information is readily available. Um, we also make all of our public our packets public. So,

any information that you receive as a as a planning commission member is public information. Um, so you can feel free to share that with constituents who might have questions. Um, it's available online. We have a planning commission page on the city website. um they can also reach out to city staff and we'll send them, you know, if they're specifically looking for minutes from the March 4th meeting, that's we can easily pull that out for them and send it directly. Um but that's part of open meeting laws is being able to access those minutes um and agendas readily. Uh also part of open meeting laws is requirements regarding quorum. So in order for you to do any business, you have to have a quorum of members present. And with this group your quorum is I believe it is six six how one two three

four sorry I have a lot of groups that I work with um this quorum is four that also means that if you are planning on having discussions outside of your regular meeting times um please do not have those discussions with more than four of you u because that means that you're conducting business without it being public more than three

more than three. Okay, thank you. Um, in general, the best practice is if you, you know, if you want to talk amongst commission members, one-on-one is great. Um, I am also the contact point for you to send questions to or send outreach through. So, I will if you want to send something, if you read an article about planning that you think was really interesting, you want the rest of the commission members to read it, um, send it to me and I'll send it out to the full group. We'll just make sure that everybody has access to all of the same information. Uh, any questions about open meeting law? No. Okay. Um the city council will be doing a retreat on February 6th to talk about um changes to open meeting law regarding uh sessions that are available via like Zoom. Um at this point, I'm not sure what the policy is going to be, but I would expect that um this group will continue to be an in-person meeting group. So we will not have options for people to join remotely during meetings and conduct business that way. So, just plan on this being in person for the foreseeable future. Um, what else? You will be you will get your packets of information um at least 3 days before the meeting. We generally try to send it out the at the end of the week before your meeting on Monday. So, you have the weekend to go over things. If you have questions about materials that are being sent out, if you want to talk about anything, please reach out to me or to Jill. Uh, my preferred method of of communication is via email. I see a lot of people during the day and I talk to a lot of people. So, it's just easier for me to be able to see things in writing and be able to go back and say, "Oh, that's right. We talked about this on this day via email." And I can just pull information back out that way. Um that said, your emails back and forth to me as a city staff person or um

regarding planning commission information can be searchable by the public. It can be requested as um information part of part of the decision-m process that is accomplished through a um data request. So when you are having communications regarding planning commission, just be aware of that. And what else? Yeah, I'm your go-to for all of your communications. Oh, conflicts of interest. Um, that is you. You are beholden to the same conflict of interest rules that our city council is beholden to as well. We have it outlined in our um in our city code uh which I think we should disperse to all of you. I think that section on conflict of interest. But um if there is ever a point where you're discussing a matter where you may have some sort of a financial interest, if you have a family member who's involved in in a project, um best practice is to reach out and discuss beforehand whether or not there could be a conflict or even if you just perceive on your own that there may be a conflict um to state that at a meeting. Um the the process is to let the chair know what the um conflict could be and then you would recuse yourself from discussion and voting on on an item. It's something that that hap I mean it's a small town, right? So we all know people. We all are involved in lots of different projects. It's not an unusual thing to recuse yourself from something. It's not a big deal. Um but just be aware that those conflicts could pop up and just be proactive about it. Um, preferably if you would let me know in writing your reasons from for recusing yourself, then we can just kind of have a record of of why someone is choosing not to participate in a conversation should it come up again at a different time. Um, any questions about that? No. Okay. We'll send out the um city code language regarding conflicts of interest just so that you have that on

file. It might be in your in your board packets. I'm not sure. It's at least referenced in there if it's not word for word. Um, I think that's all of the information I want to share about your work as a board in general. And now I think I'm just going to dive in a little bit to your role specifically as planning commission. And as I said, we'll be kind of learning and training together as we go, as things are popping up because you will have um you will be touching a lot of different things. Um, for instance, last year, we'll just do a quick review of what planning commission did last year, but planning commission um had discussions and made decisions around things like standalone garages and res residential districts. That was something that was brought forward um from the city council um kicked the planning commission to discuss, have community outreach on, and then um develop language for adoption into city code. um land use issues. Uh most recently in the last year has been discussions related to um cannabis cannabis sales. That's a a new topic in the state of Minnesota. And so this commission played a big role in deciding what that looks like in the city of Fergus Falls. Um last year we also did we had a an opportunity to work with Greater Minnesota Housing Foundation. They offered um some grants that would connect us with a city planner or a planner who um did a brief audit of our zoning code looking for barriers to housing. So, we'll revisit that. I think I'm going to have that planner come and just do kind of an overview of the work that she did. Um because we'll we'll want to revisit that. Housing is an issue in Fergus Falls, as it is in nearly every community in in the country. Um, we're always looking for ways to be more friendly to housing

development and um, this planner came up with some really good options for us to consider adopting. So, we'll continue those conversations. Um, signage, you actually oversee the rules regarding signage in town. That's part of our our zoning code. So, there were some discussions on that during the last um session of planning commission. Uh, platting is another thing that you also oversee. So, when somebody is going to be subdividing a parcel or um building out a new development, often times they're going through a planning process and that starts with you guys to go through that. Uh redevelopment projects, uh lots of times those will review like require some sort of zoning review, either conditional use permit, interim use permit, those sorts of things. You'll be looking at those. And then resoning um future areas of focus. Oh, wait. I was going to go through some numbers. So last year there were three conditional use permits that the planning commission reviewed. There were 1, two, three, four interim use permits. There were two platting processes that were run through the planning commission. Three variances and one resoning request. So it kind of runs the gamut of the things that you'll have in front of you. Um and we will review all of them as they come. Make sure you have time to ask questions. Um, I don't ever want you to feel like you're just being overloaded with information and not have a chance to dive into things. So, just keep that in mind and tell me if you want to review anything. There are lots of training materials out there for planning commission members. Um, some of them are like trainings you can attend in person. I haven't looked into what the League of Minnesota Cities might have available this year for those opportunities, but I will certainly keep an eye out and let you know if there are things that you could attend. Um, I think going into 2026, there are a

few items that I know that we will be addressing. Um, first is shoreland management, our shoreland ordinance. Uh that is language that we've been working on back and forth with the DNR for several years now. Uh that will come back before you for further review and then um adoption at the council level. Then as I mentioned that housing zone, it will be housing zoning audit that we did. We'll bring that back up. Um that along with that audit related to housing, um I also have some items that I think we should look at for development purposes. Um, parking minimums in particular are something that I've been wanting to discuss at the planning commission level for several years and make some action on. So, that's something that I foresee bringing back up. And then battery energy storage systems and um truck stop language. Those are two things that uh the truck stop language is new. You'll see that shortly here. The um battery energy storage language is something that we started with the previous planning commission and we'll hopefully finish up with this with this group. Um, let's see. I think that's I'll just I'll say so I went over very quickly the things we did last year, but overall planning commission's role is um reviewing and overseeing and making recommendations on reszoning plats, conditional use permits, interim use permits, variances and ordinance amendments. So those are the things that you will be seeing in front of you. Does anybody have any questions about those particular items? As we go, I will explain what all of those things mean, what the regulations are in the city of Fergus Falls, how it fits in with our zoning code. I won't make you go in blind, but those are those are the items that you'll see. So,

um I think I'm done. Happy to take any questions. I like to keep it laid-back also and like conversational. So, don't ever feel that you can't ask a question at any point. I am always happy to stop and answer questions. And I'm also not afraid to say, "I don't know. I have to look into that," which is an answer I have to give a lot because we have a very long zoning code and sometimes I have to do some pretty deep review to figure out how to respond to things. So, that's okay. Um, all right. Let's move on to an election of officers. We have no remaining members who were officers, I don't think, last year. On your agenda, there are two officers. You have a chair and a vice chair. Forgot to add that you also um appoint a member to be part of the Heritage Preservation Commission. Um, that's a group that meets also monthly, but they meet at noon on the second Wednesday of the month.

First Wednesday.

First Wednesday of the month. Sorry, I have so many groups. Um, they meet at noon the first Wednesday of the month. It's a group that is focused on um historic preservation. So, they maintain a list of historic properties. They make recommendations regarding historic properties being either locally or nationally listed. Um they also review building permits should a historic property be um be being worked on. Um and we tend to in our in our code we recommend that there is a planning commission member who serves as an exofficio member of that group. So a member by virtue of your place on the planning commission. You have full voting rights on the HPC. Um you can be as involved with it or not as involved with it as as you would like. We've had kind of a mixture of of um participation levels from planning commission members, but Wayne has served in that role. It's kind of fun, right? The HBC is a great group,

right? Great. Yeah. So, we'll um hopefully appoint somebody to that role tonight. If you want to think about it for a little while, that's okay, too, because I know it is an extra commitment that um may not be easier for people to fit into their schedules. But let's start with our nomination for chair and then I'm going to have that chair take over the remainder of the meeting. You can also nominate a slate of officers. So you could do chair and vice chair at the same time and then we can just get rolling. I'd like to nominate Paul Vukunich as chair. Paul, do you accept? My only hesitation is that between work and young children obligations, I I often cannot be here right at 5:15. That's okay. I could be

I think that you have a lot of knowledge and I think that you're very objective and I think you'd play a very good role in chair. We can also adjust the start time of these meetings. We are not married to 5:15 necessarily. We have met at 5:30 in the past. I I'll also be interested if Jeff having been on this committee before would be interested in serving as chair or Wayne. I would not be I I what I would do um is I would I mean I would be sliced here so if you need help I can help you with that but I don't want to be the chair. I've done that. I think somebody else should do it. So I would second I would prefer not to. Okay.

If somebody else would be interested in it. I know this is awkward. Sorry you guys. There's not really a better way to do this. You want me to be chair? Yes. I'll be chair. Okay. That sounds good. I don't know what I'm doing, but I can slam that hammer back. Good. It's already a little broken, so just I'll finish it off. Okay. So, we Sander, we have a nomination for chair. Does anybody want to do a nomination for vice chair? Just do it as a slate or would you like to move ahead with chair now? I would nominate Paul as vice chair.

Then you can step in when I should say the role of the chair is um to oversee the meeting. So you are going to be, you know, keeping things in line, keeping things moving. Um, vice chair generally only has to step in if the chair is not available to be at the meeting. Um, but you can also use it as like a support system. That that works great. So any of the agenda setting, things like that, we'll consult with the chair, but a lot of times staff will take care of um just setting the agendas, getting all the packets and everything. So it's really just overseeing the meeting process. Okay, all is good. Um, since Okay, who Sorry, who seconded? Anybody second?

Wayne. Well, I I'll second it if nobody does. Yeah. Okay, so Alla moved. Jeff second. All in favor say I. I. Opposed? Same sign. Hearing none, that motion carries. and vice sorry did we do vice chair in with that as well no we didn't vice chair and I nominated Paul Paul I'll second that second all in favor I I all opposed same sign hearing none motion carries okay so chair take it away wow

can I get some training wheels cuz I I know they're going to sit right next to me So, you want me to take what away? Well, welcome everyone. We can just Yeah, we can just move on to Oh, I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about HPC? Who would like to be our ex official for HPC? I I would volunteer for that if I got time. Okay, I'll second that. All right, perfect. Sandra moves. Thank you, Sander. Paul second. You can you can take the vote then, Madam Chair. How do I do that? Just say all in favor. All in favor? I. All opposed. All opposed. Hearing none. Motion carries.

Hearing none. Motion carries. Now I'm a puppet. I'll send you the language. I need the language. Yeah. And the cheat sheet with it. Yeah. It's it's it'll it'll fit with your logic. You'll catch on. So, all right. Great. Um, new business. Sorry. Right now I'm take I'm still That's okay. You can you can kind of assist. That'd be great.

Okay. Well, new business that we have tonight is a truck stop ordinance. So, I will just give you a little bit of background on um where this is coming from. So, at the end of 2025, which is crazy to say right now that we're already in 2026, um at the end of 2025, we were approached by a company that does truck stops and um convenience stores. It's a well-known company called Quick Trip. They are interested in locating in Fergus Falls. And part of the discussion that we had at the end of 2025 is that we don't technically have language in our in our city code that would encompass a truck stop. So city code um I I serve as zoning administrator in my role. So a huge part of my day is spent reading our city code, matching it to real world uses. And a lot of a lot of that work is um is looking at at the code language that exists and then ensuring that it's encompassing what we need it to encompass to match the development that is actually occurring. Um in the case of Quick Trip's previous request to the city which was for a reasonzoning, this is where it gets a little complicated. Um, reszoning does not technically require that there be a project related to it. Like a landowner can come forward and say, "I'm interested in reszoning my property to be X. It fits in either fits in the zoning there or it doesn't." Um, in this case, it was a request from the project initiators. So, Quicktrip who came forward with their resoning request. So it was while it didn't have to be tied to their project, it was very closely entangled with their project

that resoning. And so part of the conversation that came out of that was we don't have language that fully encompasses something like a truck stop. And there are differences between a regular gas station, a convenience store use, and something like a truck stop. So, um this is a request that was specifically made by a subcommittee of council members who have been um studying this use and its inclusion in our city code. And um so we have draft language in front of you that is going to fit within our B2 zoning code. Um B2 is our general or is our service business use. Um it encompasses a lot of our existing uh gas stations, convenience stores. Um it is also fitting based on our zoning map um to be used for something like a truck stop. The use of B2 also then allows by right the use of a truck stop in our industrial zoning. So you add it once to the code and then it can be used in multiple different zoning districts. What it does not do is add it to the other business districts. Um, so the truck stop use would not be eligible in the B3 zone or B B4 through B6. Um, which encompasses a lot of like our shopping centers, uh, larger square footage stores, etc. Um, and some of our more densely densely um, populated shopping centers in particular. So B2, there's a little bit more uh it's it's out toward the edges of our town a little bit more, so along the interstate, which is where you would see something like a truck stop falling. So to me, it made logical sense to fit that use within that section of the zoning code. Um, and a lot of times

when you're doing things like uh zoning amendments, you are adding or or you're you're kind you're recycling language from other communities. Nobody wants to recreate the wheel if it's already working in other communities. So, in this case, um, Canon Falls had language that was um interesting to our our city council members who were on the subcommittee studying this. And so, that's what we started with as um as a starting place for our language. I tailored it to to best fit our B2 zone and the realistic use of our zoning in Fergus Falls. Um, so let's maybe first talk about the definition because we will need to add the definition in for it to be um, properly integrated into the code in our B2 zone. I'll stop right there for a second. Do you have questions so far? Is is what I'm saying making sense?

I just Are any members of the subcommittee here? No. Oh, no they are not. So the draft in front of us is the subcommittee's I've given the I've given them the opportunity to comment. I will say that I have not received much comment back. Um so I don't know you developed this. Yes. Okay. Yep.

Yeah. So the definition itself I developed based on federal language that is um regulating truck stops along inner states. And I'm I'm not entirely sure the full use of that federal language, but from what I saw, it was a good fit for what we're trying to do here in Fergus Falls, which is just add this use in our zoning code as something that we can point to and say it either is or is not a truck stop. Um so the definition that I have proposed and that I am looking for feedback on from this group is truck stop a facility including any a pertinent parking or service areas that is distinguished from a typical gas station or convenience store by its design and purpose to provide services for commercial motor vehicles in addition to service for non-commercial vehicles including fueling, charging or servicing regardless of fuel type or electric electrical motive power. that is a located within 2500 ft of the interstate highway system and b includes one or more features primarily designed to serve commercial vehicle operators such as extended truck parking, driver amenities, or truck scaled fueling or charging infrastructure. So from my Oh. Mhm.

Is is what you're reading different than what was in the packet that was emailed out because it looks different. Nope. Shouldn't be. What page are you on? It's different. Unless I'm looking at the wrong that's the same. This is when when those packets get some we we should print those. We don't get a package at the meeting. Yeah. In I like trees. So I don't I just didn't print off that section of it. Okay. Okay. Good. I was It would be great if we could have it printed for the meetings because

we and we will always print something if somebody requests it. I would say it would be great because all of us are running from our other VOCs and it's not something that we're thinking about. But if it's in front of us, we've already read it on our own time. Great. Yep. We can certainly do that. If anybody does not want a printed copy, just let me know. We'll plant a tree for you. I think I think Jill's always been really good about asking if there's that need. Yeah. Yep. But yes, we can absolutely print print information. That's no problem. Um more were there more questions or comments on that? Did you did you end up finding a version of it? Okay, I'm sharing with Wayne.

Okay, great. Um so this distinguishes between a regular convenience store by the addition of the language that is noting design or intent that is specific to commercial vehicles. In other words, um semi-truckss. Uh if you think about like uh Casey's downtown, there is not while they can go there and they can fuel, there are not amenities specific to a a commercial vehicle or a commercial vehicle driver. They don't have a specific like don't they don't have a weigh station. They don't have specific pumps just for semi-truckss. They don't have long-term parking, anything like that. So any project that's coming forward and is including things like what I just mentioned, stuff that's specific to commercial vehicle usage and it's going to be located near an interstate, that's where our truck stop definition is going to apply.

So does that make sense? The big chief, is that considered a truck stop? Big Chief would be considered a truck stop. Mhm. Yep. any comments, concerns about this definition, additions and is your So this is your language and you're asking for feedback and then you're going to you may incorporate the feedback before presenting that to the council or or is that is that the process?

Yep. So great question. Thank you. I will clarify. So any amendments to the zoning code that are going to occur are going to come through this commission. So, you will always be given the opportunity to comment on zoning code changes before either before it gets to council the first time or before council makes a decision on it. If it's started at the council level, it will come back and that is a state that's a state law that that occurs.

Would this the way it reads right now, would Walmart be considered a truck stop, the parking lot there? Um, I would not consider Walmart to be a truck stop simply because um, they do not. So, while they have parking spaces that are used by truckers or used by semis, um, they have not built them for that specific purpose. And the reason that I know that is because they have reached out to us in the past and um, said that they would like to stop off offering overnight truck parking. So it's this is we won't we won't look back on any existing projects and say now you're a truck stop now we have to now we're going to regulate you differently. This is for any new projects moving forward. So we would ensure upfront whether or not it fits this definition before they get rolling. Are we feeling okay about it? Okay. Thank you. Um, writing definitions is actually hard because you want to strike the right balance of being inclusive enough where you're going to catch all of the projects that you want to catch, but you also don't want to cause problems for other projects that might be going forward and might not fully fit that definition. So, it was uh the the feedback that I did get from council members who have reviewed this thus far was that they wanted to be sure that it was clear that a truck stop doesn't only serve trucks, that it serves all vehicles, which um I think we have managed to do here.

So, it says in part B that it includes one or more. So, is a uh rest area considered a truck stop then? Because it says one or more,

one being just a a holding place for them to park. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I would most of the when we get into the actual code language, most of the regulations are going to be around the actual fueling stations themselves and lighting. So, I would say that we would maybe consider a rest stop, and it's not often that you have a rest stop within city limits. A lot of times they're outside of city limits. Um, but I I think I think we would likely consider them as a truck stop and we would um we would regulate them as such, but that wouldn't affect most of their operations because it's just parking basically, but the lighting things things that would be relevant. Yeah, we would regulate that. Good question. All right. Oh, and our computer's restarting. That's fine. Um, okay. So, maybe we'll move on to the actual code language itself and just kind of dive into that. Um, so I have proposed adding truck stop as a use. Um, maybe I'll back up a little bit and just explain a little bit about how our zoning code work with works with uses. It's impossible to encompass all the different kinds of business uses in a zoning code. Therefore, people like me who are doing zoning administration are very often um administering the code in such a way that we are um analyzing a project and finding the best fit for it. And um so when when Quick Trip first came forward, the best fit that we had in our city code was gas station convenience store that use. Now, by adding a new use into our B2, we are expanding our options for how zoning regulations can occur by creating this

new use. So, I've proposed to add it at the end of the list. And um it is a use by right. So, we're not requiring that it be a conditional use per permit. It would be a use by right in the B2 zone for a project to come in and say, "I'm located um within 2700 ft of the interstate and I'm going to have uh showers for truckers and a diesel fueling station for specifically for semis." Um so now we can point to our code and say and we have that used and it's in this code and then we can go from there. Um, so that's that's how that process kind of works just to give you a little bit of background. But I've included it then as a use by right, but the use by right is including certain conditions of how that use is played out in reality. So you'll you'll note I've included all of our B2 language in your packet. So you'll note that there are a couple different places where um it says let's see, where's another one? Um, okay. Drive-in restaurants for for example, which is not a use that you that you necessarily see all the time anymore, drive-in theaters, that sort of thing. It it lists out um screening requirements, things like that as part of the use. So, I've done the same thing here with truck stops, um, including location about its or including including language about its location. So, it's going to be located on on parcels within 2500 ft of the interstate highway system. My intent there is that it's from the parcel line. It's not from the building itself. It's 2500 ft from the parcel line, just to be clear about that. And I may make that more clear in the language. I just haven't added that yet. But, um, that's a question that comes up sometimes. Well, is it from the parcel line or is it from the building itself? And you can do it both ways. You can you can zone it that way, but in this case, I my intent is from the

parcel line. Um, it's going to include installation standards. So, truck stops shall be installed in accordance with state and city standards. Adequate space shall be provided to access fuel pumps and allow maneuverability around the pumps. Underground fuel storage tanks shall be positioned to allow adequate access by motor fuel transports and unloading operations that do not conflict with circulation access or other activities on the site. Fuel pumps shall be installed on pump islands. It also includes architectural standards um which is going to affect how how it looks but not to the degree where we're saying like it has to be you know your walls have to be only this high and they have to be this color but we're saying keep it you know keep it nice looking and make sure all of your buildings on your site are matching which is um matches with other parts of our code. Uh we are allowing a canopy use. So, a lot of times at truck stops or gas stations, they'll have that canopy that's over the the fueling stations. Um, we've included that in here as an accessory use, which then triggers um our accessory building standards that we have in a separate part of our code. So, it's accounting for that use as part of a truck stop, but also gives us a little bit more teeth to say, you know, your setbacks need to match our the underlying district, etc. Um, it's also regulating what signage can be allowed on a detached canopy. It's regulating lighting. So, our intent here is we don't want these, you know, a giant lit up canopy necessarily or um truck stop that you're going to be able to see from miles and miles and miles around. Reasonable lighting, keeping it pointed at the ground, being a good neighbor. That's really the intent of this whole ordinance is be a good neighbor. um because we we may have places in town where this is up against a residential zone. So that's why we're putting these extra parameters in place

is to make sure they're a good neighbor to the rest of the neighborhood. Um a lot of these regulations are going to be managed through our the building permitting process. So um or through the state itself because the city does not necessarily come in and have standards related to the fueling stations, how those are all working, anything like that. That's going to be other licensing outside of the city. But um what we're what we're doing here is trying to regulate some of the things that the city does have a say in. And um the way that we're going to do that is through our building permit process. So any new development that's coming to town is always going to have to go through the building permit process. They're going to provide a site plan. They're going to provide engineering. And all of that is going to be looked at by our building official, by our city engineering team, by our fire department. It all gets um a a really healthy and thorough plan review. So that's where we would say, you know, you are abiding by our zoning code rules or you know what, you're not. Let's kick this back to your engineers. let's have you take another look at your plans and let's redo them um through that building permitting process. So when a you know should a truck stop be coming to town, they're not necessarily going to be in front of the planning commission going through these zoning points point by point. That's coming through that building permit process. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Um let's see. Landscaping is another another piece that I think we'd like to have um have some say over. So, we are ensuring that any new truck stop development that's coming is going to be keeping 25% of the lot um exclusively 25% of the tract will be used exclusively for the fuel sales facility. And then surrounding it is going to be

some of that landscaping, whether that be trees, shrubs, grass, something that's maintained in landscape landscape. So it's not just, you know, gravel, dirt, whatever. We also have requirements in our parking regulations that are going to require that the um areas that are being used for trucks that are related to the service area, to the convenience store, etc., those are all going to be um paved likely with batuminous. So, we're also indicating that that part of the code needs to be followed as well. Um, we also have regulations regarding parking minimums. I have not embedded those exactly into this because again, we have a separate section of our zoning code that's going to oversee that, but it's referencing that part of the code so that should that part of the code ever change, we don't also have to make a change here. Um, but it's the two are referencing. Um, and again, exterior lighting and noise. Um, pointing back to our noise ordinance, um, telling the truck stop developers that they're not going to be playing, uh, music or, um, advertisements over a loudspeaker. um or if they are playing anything that they know that there are sound ordinance requirements in the city of Fergus Falls, which there are. Um we have an ordinance in place that um clarifies what nuisance sound is and the hours um at which sound can be audible by neighbors. Um we can review that at a different time if you'd like. And

I mean I can I can I pop in here with a question just in the sense of I mean so one thank you for putting all this together. Uh it appears to me as if though the vast majority of the provisions here in or in response to public comment about the potential of this very particular project and I'm kind of wondering if you can explain or at least walk through why we're creating I mean essentially two pages of very specific provisions. Sure. about I mean we're creating a general classification of truck stop uh and regulating things that are also regulated someplace else and enforced someplace else uh

to extent to an extent. Yes. Um, I I will say that this the language that we have here, it's it's often it's often referencing other pieces of code, but that's true of basically any zoning that we're going to be doing any like everything is referencing each other. So, it's not unusual to be pulling out specific items like this. um things like exterior lighting or things related to like there's a requirement that there be specific kinds of drainage that is very specific to a truck stop and that's that's the language that I'm pulling from other communities like Canon Falls. Um that's not language that I've invented by any means. Um, but to your point that it seems to be very much in response to community outreach related related to another project or to the quick trip project. Um, I do think that is the intent of the council members who brought this forward is to be addressing some of those public concerns and ensuring that in future we do have a way to address um address being a good neighbor in a residential setting because we do have areas in town where that where this kind of development is a fit, but there is also residential nearby. So,

does that does that help a little bit? Yes. Okay. We can talk more about it if you want. You want

I I mean Yeah. I mean, it it's it's Yes. I mean, and and I mean, and I I don't mean to be glib about this or or contrarian or anything, but it's seeming as if though 47 should be labeled quick trip, not truck stops, you know, like and and saying we're we're creating a general classification for series of businesses that says if this goes I mean, obviously in the other side of the interstate as the city boundaries expand, etc., et, etc., they'd be held to this exact same standard regardless of whether or not they are adjacent to uh a property. And I I mean, I guess that's something that we can address project by project as opposed to Yeah.

creating really restrictive language. I mean, and I get and and I mean, you're helping clarify. I mean, so when you sent it to me, I would just kind of went through and said, "Wow, this is a ton for a very particular thing." and the drainage stuff obviously is is part of it, but

it would not be out of the realm of possibility for us to um tie this language specifically to placement near residential area. I mean, if we're concerned that we're creating a class of use that could pop up in other parts of town and it would not be near residential. I mean, we could make this um we could make this tied to location near residential within a certain amount of square feet or that if that's something that this group would like to consider. I just asking the question.

Yeah. No, and it's good feedback and it's something that we can account for. I mean, if we're concerned that this is going to be overly restrictive for other projects, we can certainly add more language or or delete language that we think could be problematic in future. Claire, are you done with your summary of this? Yeah, I can. Yes. So, you did you use the the the like the federal language as a basis for this or the cannon falls? Just for the definition. This is this is mostly Canon Falls. Cannon Falls and then pieces of our our own code. Are you looking for verbal comments now? Like Yeah, maybe just uh to start off the where we talk about signage.

Individual canopy signage does not exceed 20% of the canopy facade facing the public right away. I'm just trying to visualize Holiday Marathon Casey's. It seemed like those words take up more than 20% of the facade on that side. That just seemed like that seemed like it's such a small why even why like why even put a requirement on that that yeah that's language I took from Canon Falls. I am certainly not married to that language in any way if we don't feel that we want to restrict the coverage on a canopy. I'm fine with that.

I would I would say if you would give me the opportunity to put no restrictions on there that I would light up the entire thing without question. I I mean, if there's no restriction, I think you would just set it to blaze with whatever lights you could or whatever advertisements you could cram on there. So, I I think the restriction keeps it neater. It doesn't maybe 20% is too restrictive. Do you think and we should all drive by some of the gas stations around here and look at that, but in my mind, I was thinking maybe maybe that should be 50% instead of 20. But I'm open to that, too. Is that somewhere else mentioned in our signage in general?

Yeah, this is um there's extra language in here regarding the canopy in particular just because our signage code language doesn't necessarily address a specific use like this where there is a canopy. It's all based on just the existing square footage of a facade. Um, so it could it could be should we take this language regarding a canopy specifically out? It could be overly restrictive if the only um if the only allowable square footage for signage is related to the facade of the building itself. So, I do think we want to keep something about allowing signage on the canopy in there just because this is different than our other signage code section,

but if we think 20% is too restrictive, then we can up it. I mean it it's either that or remove the language out of here and then move to amend that signage section to include that provision so that it would be regulated or or it would which is something someplace entirely else as opposed to opening up B2 and then having two pages of provisions about one particular business type and I mean that in the sense of as an individual navigating through ordinance all of a sudden you hit this section and it's oh my god you know when's the next section start please uh and And I mean and I guess however you f

I suppose the danger in that is you put in the general signage category that could end up applying to a lot more businesses than just truck stops. And I mean I and I think that's part of the planning element is is create is create a uniform kind of application of this this particular thing that would apply to all businesses equally regardless if it's a truck stop, a drive-in movie theater. Not that one of those is coming, but uh I mean Oh, you're going to be surprised. Oh man. Okay. Well, I mean, let's get to it. But yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm just I'm just curious as to as to uh whether or not this best fits inside of here or if it's something language that we could include someplace else. Yeah. Uh and then just make

what what do other people have you viewed the uh location in Canon Falls that this this is just a general they just have. Do you know if they have an example of a truck stop that perhaps they wrote wrote this language for there? I don't know. I can look into that though. Yeah. And that's the only example we have is Canon Falls that they studied. That is the one that I was given from our council members as as what they would like to be the starting point.

Mhm. And I think when I did look when I did read it in Canon Falls's code, I believe they put it in in like 1996. So there may or may not be records that we can look back on for for that time period. It gets a little dicey with cities going back that far and having digital digitally available records. I I would maybe just amend my comment to say considering that most of these facilities have standardized logos and signage. Yeah. Let's look at what most of those are generally and let's try to set it so those would all be allowable.

Okay. There there is no current canopy code at all for a gas station in town. They can just do whatever they want.

I'm not I so I have not permitted any I have not permitted any um gas stations since I've been doing the sign permitting process. So I think our code has been allowable enough based on the language that currently exists that it hasn't been an issue for any operations. Um maybe simply because of the fact that a gas station tends to have they're like longer than they are wide and we're basing our um measurements or our calculations on the square footage of the facade itself. So it's possible that all the facades that have existed have been big enough to allow for whatever kind of signage they want on the canopy, but I don't know that for sure. So just one one other thought and relating to what you said Paul about especially since this is quick trip and they've built 250 let's just say

and they're try to be identical one to the other right that's what they do is it is it proper or not that they dictate what we do but yet do we go back to them and say what do you usually do? We yeah, we can ask for that feedback for this gentleman here, whatever his name was that was here. I wasn't here at the meeting, but I'm just, you know, it'd be a place to start. That is a good point because they have they are standardized. Yeah. And that's something we see more and more where it's, you know, kind of like a chain situation and they've got it's all a package deal and they just come to you with the package and

yeah, I'm I'm open to exploring that further. I know MC Chief isn't within the city limits, but what does that look like? I mean, if you were going to apply that to these codes, how would they fit in if they were in the city limits?

Yeah, good question. Okay. So, what I'm hearing then is I'm going to look more at the signage section and try to make sure that we're um getting some real life examples and um being realistic about that those size regulations or if appropriate sliding some of that language into our signage code which I'm also open to. So it only talks about location of the truck stop being 2500 ft. Yeah.

Within the within 2500 ft of an interstate system. You know, you gave an example of what if they built it in town, right? Well, I don't know. I mean, out there where they're proposing that's not in city limits. No, that is that is right. I'm just saying if you compared it to something that's not, how does it how would it compare, right? An existing I got a couple more comments. I can go for it. So, um there's language in here about storm water capacities. My guess is that's very old. Because like if you know I'm I'm we should cross reference this with our MS4 permit. Okay.

And I would say whatever that requires just just you have to include that section just reference MS4 permit. Okay. Just as an example. So the Canon Cannon Falls is code said 400 cubic feet of storage you need uh they call your permanent pool storage. Yeah. But the the general standard in Minnesota is you need at least 1,800 cubic feet of dead storage per acre. Okay. So I think this is just pretty old. Okay. Since it's from the '90s. So that's really good feedback. Thank you. If it isn't in there at all, can they bypass that if it's not written in there? Isn't this already covered? They would. Yeah. Uh the MS4 he's he's right that that program would so suck that in. Why why would why does it have to be in there at all?

I I don't think it has to. I think we can strike it and it would the MS4 permit is going to have to be complied with anyway. Maybe maybe are there other items in there that would be covered regardless and can be scrapped to your point. Yeah, I think that's the the general question is how much of this is is redundant? I think I think A through D could all be scrapped. A through D A through AB just those under E. E A E B E C E D. That sounds fine. I can just write something in referencing MS4.

Sorry, Claire. No. So 20. Then the next section F, it says at least 25% of the land has to be dedicated to green space. That seems like a lot. If you're thinking about maybe some other parcels along the interstate, let's say the exit by Walmart. I will say they so Canon Falls had a requirement that there that a um development be a certain number of acres and I did not carry that through. So this you might be on to something there. That might be too big cuz we're I'm I'm not making them fit a certain acreage. Yeah. requirement. H

I'm just wondering what do we even need that in there? That number one probably not. The biggest the biggest issue I was trying to address with requiring landscaping etc was the um like the buffering from a residential area and just requiring that that be accounted for in their site planning. So if there is different language that we feel is doing that or that I can change this to, I am also open to removing that.

There's a section on screening in here too. I'm just wondering if that covers it. Here we go. Uh three. So three under landscaping says um off streetet parking and loading areas near or adjoining residential district shall be screened by a buffer fence or planting screen of adequate design. Screening plan shall be submitted as part of the required cider plot plan. I I mean, doesn't that cover it?

Maybe that's covering it. Yeah. Do others agree? 100%. Going on vibes here, you guys. So, okay. I mean, there is something to taking that lot and beautifying it in multiple ways, but if the intention of that language for the 25% requirement is to do this, Yeah. Then yeah, I mean maybe they just plant a tree just because does that mean if if they don't need the screening for whatever let's say it's all commercial that there will be no greenery required at all

shall be screen

I mean we yeah I mean that would that If you take out that 25%. Yeah, I think that's the case. We have some impervious surface require or regulations. So they can't Well, in a B2, it would fall under the MS4. So they at least need a storm water retention basin. Yeah. So maybe that's covering it. And they they may incorporate for the purpose of pet areas. Yes. True.

Naturally, I guess we do. Okay. Think I'm continuing to think through this. So we do require in our parking regulations that there be 10 ft between a parcel line and where your batuminous is starting. So that that does require that there be some green space. So, no, we're not in danger of having a site that's entirely I think B3 in certain parts of the city does allow for a fully covered site, but B2 in particular has 10 ft off of those parcel lines. So, we might we might be covered there or we are covered there. I will be more definitive about that. Isn't writing code fun, you guys?

Yes. Could you could you elaborate on F2? Maybe. It talked about off streetet parking and loading. Oh, yeah. Okay. And I guess I Yes. I I I'm just I'm curious what the intent behind that one was.

So, this is specifically this is another place where I've taken existing code and I've put it in here to ensure that those regulations are being hit. Um, but this is from our our off- streetet parking and loading regulations. um shall comply with front yard, sideyard, and rear yard regulations for the zoning district in which they are located and with chapter one or section 154.193 which is our parking and loading requirements. So I'm ensuring that they are following the underlying underlying zoning districts front side backyard requirements which are different between B2 and industrial zones. Um, so that's I'm trying to cover that there. And then also referencing back to our parking section. So that was my intent with that.

So So this is not specifically for B2.

So the way that our code reads is that any uses that are allowed by right or by conditional use permit in a B2 zone are also allowable in industrial zones. So, not in every business district. And we have several business districts. B2, B3. I don't think we have we might have like one instance of B4, um, B5, B6. Those are our business districts. And then we go into our industrial zoning. So, yeah, our industrial language says that any use that's allowed then in that B2 can also be used in industrial, but they have different requirements between the two. So this section in particular F2 then is ensuring that they're abiding by those essentially the setbacks in those in those underlying districts. Does that make sense?

I think so. Okay. You're really diving into this. I This is good. I mean, exterior lighting. I had a question on G. Yeah. Okay. Maybe you did, too. You want to go? No, you're the vice chair.

So, so exterior lighting says, "Lighting shall be designed so that no direct light source is visible from adjacent residential property or the public rightway." So is this reading that you cannot see any light directly from the roadway? I'm just think like how is that achievable? I think what this means is that and again this is this is Canon Falls language. Um it I am referencing our actual code in here. I did match it to our code section that talks about lighting but our lighting section is very brief. It's like one line. Sure.

Um but when when I am looking at this and the way that I would administer this is um normal normal lights under a canopy or something would be facing downward. signage has its own kind of lighting, but we're not they're not gonna we're we're gonna say no like spotlights or maybe flood lights that are spec facing directly toward a residential area or a street. So angled down so you'll still see it but it's not direct like the light bulb isn't going right forward. That's how I would administer this. If we think it's confusing, we can change this language

because technically no lights no light source is projected versus visible. D maybe we say no light source is directly projected toward residential property or the public right of way. Wouldn't that exclude LED signs then? Um I thought there was a section sorry I'll go back into the microphone. Um, I thought there was a section that would 54 200. I think the signage lighting is different.

What is C under G? What does that reference what you're talking about? Or C under G, maximum illumination shall not exceed that section. Yeah, I don't even know what that means, but

yeah, that's how you measure light at a light source. Um, I will also just be very candid that I am not aware of a development in Fergus Falls where we have gone and measured the light source. We we can do it. I can find that tool and do it, but it is not a general part of our permitting process. So, this would truly be on the developer to be following. Um, back to your question about the the lighting though on signage in particular, I I think it's addressed. Yeah. The canopy fascia shall not be illuminated except for permitted canopy signage. So lighted signs we do allow in nearly all of our districts um with the exception of residential. So and generally what that looks like for a sign is a lighted face. So it's not a it's not a light source that's outside of the sign necessarily unless it's directly above it shining onto the sign.

Okay. So I think I think we're okay there. But I want to go back to what um our chair was saying. Lighting shall be designed so that how did we have that? How did we have that language? But before that, I'm I'm wondering if the base G paragraph and GB are a little bit redundant. Okay. Or B says lighting at the site perimeter and building shall be directed downward and shall not see like is is B just enough? I'm okay with that. Yeah, then it's not project. You're suggesting striking the language.

So strike G. I would what I would do is I'd move B up to G. So I would strike G. Take the language from B. Put that at the top of that section. Do we still feel that a comprehensive lighting plan shall be submitted? doesn't seem to be necessary if it's following this. I I would think though if you're going to have this section C that talks about maximum illumination of one foot candle. I mean, how is the city doing their due diligence if they don't make the applicant meet that and demonstrate it? Like I

Yeah, I I think just having C in there is kind of compelling the developer to do the study. Yeah, I would agree with that. So I mean I guess you you either I think you either make them submit something or you strike C.

Here's what I am going to propose then. I'm going for G, we would strike the lighting shall be designed um up until and shall comply with and I would replace it with lighting at the site perimeter and building shall be directed downward and shall not exceed 15t candles at ground level and shall comply with section 154.2 which is our lighting section. and then continue on to say, "A comprehensive lighting plan shall be submitted as part of the required citer plot plan."

Yeah, I I I think you could just strike the first sentence in G. Leave a comprehensive lighting plan submitted, then leave subb as as part of that. Just telling them you will submit and these these are the things that okay we're looking for in that particular thing. You could uh yeah, following standards, comma, blah blah blah. Okay. 154 200 there is a difference in C with one foot candle and then 15 foot candle at ground level between B and C. So I don't know if it can be lumped in to one or Oh yeah, lighting. You're right. Lighting at the site perimeter and building should be

lighting. Oh, lighting at the site perimeter and building. I mean this is a truck stop. I I'm just wondering do we need C? But if if I guess that's but but C is specific to residential areas. But don't we also whereas B is not. Yeah. I mean yes. So that makes sense. It makes that makes sense. Okay. Yes. I see. Does that make do are you following what they said? Would be a budding that's one foot candle. So the candle differences is based on the proximity to a residential district. That's why they're different. So they have to stay in there.

They can. Well, if because if they get if we scrap I I the notion is that they get they get used as guidance for a site plan to be submitted or do they just get taken out and then somebody submits a site plan without knowing what to submit because they wouldn't have any they wouldn't have any guidelines anymore. Then I I think with the clarification about the abuing residential means the language for C should should stay. I mean that's my opinion but seems like it. Yeah. I mean it see a reasonable provision to put in here in the event that this is a voting residential property and that's why we talk through it.

Jeez. Who invited the new guy? I mean, it's very clear you've done an awful lot of leg work here. So, I mean, hats off to you for all of this. I actually do kind of enjoy this. So, it's fun. It's a puzzle. Mhm. Yeah, it is kind of It's like a little language puzzle. What What does D mean under G? Except for permitted wall signage, building and canopy fasia shall not be illuminated.

Yeah. So, that's what we were kind of touching on with Sanders comments earlier. So, um we will allow signs on a canopy, but we're saying don't add excess lighting beyond that signage except for underneath where it's, you know, then it will be lighted underneath, but on the actual facade. I can try to make that more clear maybe. building can't be I'm just trying to think is it reasonable to expect that there'll there'll be no illumination on the building maybe I don't know I don't think that that's doable

it it well so I think what this isating

I think what this is specifically doing and again I'm not I'm not married to this we can change this um I think it's just saying like Don't add and this is specific to they're using the word fascia which is not the word that we use in our code. I will likely go in and actually change any instance of fascia to facade because I think that's more in line with how we do our language but this is specific to the facade of the canopy um saying don't add extra lights beyond your lighted signage. So, if you think about like holiday, their canopy, their holiday word has lighting behind it and that would be acceptable, but they what they don't have is like a spotlight or something coming off of that same facade or just random light bulbs. Nobody's going to design it this way anyway, I don't think.

I'm just wondering if you're covered in B when you say salt directed downward. Yeah, maybe not. I don't like there's I guess Yeah, go ahead. I would be fine with that. I think there's plenty of canopies out there that have canopy lighting like trim around the edges, you know, like a like a Okay, a red or green just around in the edge. This would It seems like this whole lighting section should be rewritten just into one paragraph and shorter. And and I am by no means a lighting expert. So yeah, this is all I'm very much relying on other communities.

I I think it could be shorted up. But how if that would happen, how does that work? Like what's the process if that's if it should just be We're doing it right now. This is this is the time.

Yeah, because this is this is I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah. I mean, if our intent with the lighting section is just to say, "Don't have a million lights facing all out like you're not a UFO. You're bringing people in." As long as we're saying that, I think we're covered. And even getting rid of D, I think we are accomplishing what we are trying to accomplish because again, a truck stop is likely going to be well, not always, but likely going to be chain. They are coming in with a set design of what they want it to look like already. And I'm I'm just not think of thinking of any major retailers that have excess lighting on their canopies. That would be um a problem, I guess.

Think a field trip is in order. Could get a bus. Las Vegas lighting. How about we think about removing the Okay. But those individuals do some driveounds and see what other things look like in the area.

Okay. And are you guys cool with I do think council wants to start reviewing this as soon as they can. So I would love to get further feedback from you guys in writing that I can then incorporate. I can send out updated versions to you as a group to review um and continue to give me individual feedback. But I don't know that we will unless it gets kicked back to us from city council. I don't know that we'll discuss this again unless we really feel at this juncture that there are significant changes that you want to make to this just to be transparent about I think what council's intent is. Yeah. I don't think any one of us wants to delay the process at at all. I mean so I think I don't want to speak for everybody here but providing that in writing and you folks do you.

Okay. So, so where is it at then right now? What what's our next step?

Well, we can keep going right now. If you guys have more comments that you'd like to make or more changes that you want to discuss. The rest of it is I mean there might be ways that we can condense some of this parking information too because we are specifically referencing again other pieces of our code. Um, but also if you're ready to move on, we don't have anything else on our agenda tonight, but um, further comments, I'm always open to getting those. And it's so the way that an ordinance process works is it goes through planning commission goes to the city council level. City council takes two meetings to adopt any new ordinance and then it has a period of um it has a period of being announced in the paper essentially. That's not the right that's not the technical term for it, but I'm blanking on what that is. Um so it gets a first reading at a council meeting. uh oftentimes that's that will be where changes are made at the council level. Then a second reading generally doesn't come with any further changes. That's kind of the the set language. After that second reading is when it can get um noticed in the newspaper. And then 15 days after that is when it is an effective ordinance. So, I'm just thinking about, you know, um first off, this will probably never happen in Fergus Falls again for 100 years that some truck stops going to

possibly whatever. But, uh a comprehensive lighting plan shall be submitted, right? Mhm. And I think each situation is probably unique in itself depending on location, residential, all of this kind of stuff. So, do we kind of look at let's see what comprehensive lighting plan they come forth with and then try to adapt it to where this is going. We know where this is going. Quick trip. I don't know. that

I I I think I see what you're saying. I would counter with that leaves us open to um changing regulations based on a project. And while this is in response to specifically a project, this language is meant to be more universally usable. Um, so I think we do want some sort of baseline regulations, always recognizing that each project is different, but something that then later on down the line when somebody else is doing zoning administration, um, it's not a completely different playing field for this new truck stop that's coming in. They're being held to similar standards.

And and I get that. I I do understand we have to have some predetermined guide to go up. Yeah. But we can try to build in flexibility if we feel that this is too stringent. Just don't contaminate the space around your perimeter. Maintain your boundaries with your lighting, your sound. Mhm. And your with your screening. Screening. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. I I and I I don't want to speak for everybody, but I I mean I think it's pretty much the case that prior to submission to the council, if city staff works on condensing some of this, maybe eliminating some of the redundancies that we've identified here or potential redundancies or looking for alternate strategies to make this most comprehensive and least restrictive as possible. Um, and user friendly and user and user friendly. All of those things juggle, you know, etc., etc., and I I mean, and maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but does anyone really opposed to setting city staff with that task? Claire did a really good job putting this together

100%. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thanks. But I think this addresses the the canopy issue. I think this addresses the lighting issue. I think it is just saying is this covered someplace else or can we cover this someplace else so that this particular provision and I might have some more wiggle room in this parking section to whittle it down a little bit for instance I don't know how large a parking stall really needs to be for a truck or a trailer. Maybe I can I'm going to guess that any site designer is going to know that and they're going to require that it is big enough. So maybe we don't need to regulate that. I would be in favor of taking that out. Okay. Exactly. Anything that can be scrapped like that probably is helpful. Okay.

I think it's very very uncommon in today's world to have an independent individual build a truck stop. It's going to be somebody who's done multiple truck stops probably, and they're going to have their ducks in a row, so to speak. Not that. Yeah, I'm not going to disagree. That's probably the reality.

All right. Well, I will take these changes that have been suggested. It's probably going to take me a few days to kind of incorporate them and then make some further conense it down further. But then I will send out a new draft to all of you and you can continue to provide comment on it and um yeah, just keep an eye on it when it gets to the council level and if you have further discussion topics, let me know. That's all I've got for you. Thank you, Clara. Thank you. Thank you, dear. Good first meeting. Very good. We're off to a good start. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. I'll second it. Meeting adjourned. You can also just

Oh, it's your fault. Kind of.