Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

The November 10th, 2025 meeting of the planning commission of the city of Canon Falls will come to order. Roll call. Johnson here. Douglas here. Nats here. Box here. Noach here. Approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? Motion to approve. Uh Novak moves. Is there a second? Second. Second by Knots. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I oppose. Nate.

So moved. Approval of the minutes from the October 13, 2025 meeting. Uh motion approve. Motion by Novach. Second. Second by Douglas. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I I

opposed. Nay. So moved. There is no public invo. Correct. Everybody's here for the public hearing. Okay. Then we will move on to public hearing. We have a hearing uh ordinance amending Canon Falls City Code relating to the Canon Valley Fair. Last if Izzy wants to comment on that. Yeah, I can. Or John.

Yeah, I can introduce that. Uh so for just information purposes, the council back in March on the 18th, I believe, discussed um moving forward and actually made a motion for staff and the city attorney to work on reddrafting a ordinance related specifically to uh zoning district for the fairgrounds. and um established uh council member Jeepson and Mayor Montgomery to be a part of those conversations. So following that approval, um myself, the city attorney, um Council Member Jeffson, and Mayor Montgomery uh met with representatives of the fairboard and their attorneys to discuss uh the terms related to uh drafting this this ordinance. Um in those conversations uh happened over the course of months on uh numerous different occasions. Um we did come to a conclusion for uh the ordinance that we have uh in draft form before the meeting tonight to uh have discussion in the form of a uh public hearing. Um we do have uh Ferlin Miller here, the president of the fair board is a available for answering any questions of um you know the discussion of our conversation. Um with that I would say that the basis um you know certainly from uh conversations that the city's perspective was that the uh small racetrack that had the micro sprint cars um was something that was not ever going to be allowed or permitted to be used. Um but historically there were activities that did involve um motor vehicles like uh demolition derbies and autocross that have been happening on the fairgrounds um prior to uh you know prior to the city uh getting into much

more conversations about uh activities going on at the fair outside of the the normal week-long fair grounds. Um, I would say additionally, um, we were trying to to come up with the the basis of the conversation was try to try to come up with something that established the historic uses um, of the fair that seemingly weren't any issues within the community and uh, to create those that would be permitted uses to be allowed so that we wouldn't have to get into the situation where the city council is, you know, approving or uh overseeing every you know activity going on at the fair um outside of the normal weekl long Canada valley fair uh time frame. So that was a lot of the foundation of what uh became the drafts of this and um where we kind of settled in terms of the noise standards. We were trying to make sure that all of them stayed within the city allowance of the city code as well as uh MPCA's standards for the state. Um I unfortunately don't have the results. We did conduct a sound study um of the event that was held in September, but um at this time I do not have those results back. I do know that they should be coming very soon. With that, I guess if there's any questions about the proposal, how we got here before we start the myself or Mr. Miller before we start the public hearing.

Anybody from the commission any further clarification before we open up the public hearing? There will be time for us to discuss following the public hearing. Not then I will open the public hearing at 6:35 on the ordinance amending can fall code relating to the Canada Valley Fair. Uh again, you know, it it it would be nice if we could refrain from any hooting and hollering and and clapping and just, you know, just state our piece and and and you know, you can pat on the back when they're coming back if you want. uh when you come up the state name and address. So, whoever would like to be the first done it so many times I know I got to turn the mic on. Good evening. Jim Hoffman, 917 Park Street West, Caner Falls. It's very frustrating to have to stand in front of you to speak again this evening. Nearly nearly a year ago, a similar ordinance amendment was brought before the planning commission and it was voted down to city council took a sub took a vote as well and it was voted down at that time too. I don't know how you go from a cease and desist order to a proposed amendment that gives the fair board a substantial increase in leeway and events in only one year. Not only a substantial increase in events, there's also a substantial increase in the amount of unwanted noise. I'm not in favor of this proposed zoning change. It needs to be denied. It's not necessary. It appears to me that the fair board attorney made a giant wish list and the city attorney mired cut and pasted it into appropriate format. It would have been nice to have any of our many concerns uh t to have taken into consideration. Many citizens took time to speak in

front of the city council on numerous occasions. None of our time or effort was worth consideration. How naive of me to believe that our city administrator and city attorney worked for the homeowning citizens of Canon Falls. I don't know how or why unlawful actions continued to go on uninforced. First, it was a racetrack and a camping that came along with that. Then a monster truck event that took place supposedly with nobody's knowledge until it was brought up at a city council meeting. Unapproved events and unlawful actions have taken place for years. No one else in the city has been allowed to run an RV storage business in an R2 zone, not to mention simply ignoring any city building perm bitting. Time and time again, the fair board has stated that you need these types of events to stay solvent. Once again, I disagree with the proposed hardship of the fair board. Simply stating that you're in financial distress doesn't necessarily mean you are. Where's the evidence? On at least two occasions, I asked if the fair board ever brought forward any proof or if they'd ever been asked to show any proof of their dire situation. Of course, that didn't happen. I conducted a simple search of the 990s and discovered that for the last 15 years, the fair's average net assets exceeded $414,000. The argument is that that's total assets. And that may be true, but it's also true that their net income from 2020 to 2024 averaged over $24,000. I would I would think that's pretty good earnings by nonprofit standards. I go on I could go on about how how we don't make any special accommodations for other struggling businesses, but there's not enough time for that tonight. I'm not against the fair. I don't know that anyone is. I just don't believe these special events or amendments are necessary. Nothing ever gets disclosed from the fair board on their dire situation. The fair has gotten along just fine for decades with

donations from the friends of the fair and many others and even our own city donation of $7,500 annually. Full disclosure here, I don't attend the fair, but I do drive by and it looks very wellmaintained. Money must be coming from somewhere. There certainly there money. There's certainly money there for an attorney. If you want a text amendment for the fair, I I would I would simply it should simply be that all the events events that go on during excuse me. It should simply be that all these events can go on during the time of the fair. That was probably the original intent of the fair anyway, not some motorized event venue that will continue to spoil our peace and quiet. Finally, with all the prosperity posed to be coming to the city of Canon Falls, we'll need more urban reserve and more residential zones and not less. Thank you.

Thank you for your time. My name is Jan Fenner and I live at 1128 West Minnesota Street. My property is adjacent to the fairgrounds. When we built her home, the Canon Valley Fair was there just beyond my backyard, but not the racetrack. That was constructed illegally and motorized races allowed to run also illegally. I fully expect activity on the fairgrounds during the scheduled Canon Valley Fair, but the noise pollution from use of but not the noise pollution from use of the raceway. I'm asking you to put a stop to this by voting against the proposed zoning request which allowed further motorized racing on the racetrack, a racetrack that should have never been constructed. A year ago, the fair board attempted a similar request for zoning change allowing for freedom to use the racetrack outside of the Canon Valley Fair dates for 12 weekends a year, pretty much most of the summer. City Attorney Shelley Ryan, according to a September 30th Beacon article, said, quote, "The racetrack continues to be a nuisance, continues to be an unlawful use, and the city does have enforcement authority. This racetrack was constructed illegally, and I would like enforcement to be exercised in dismantling it, so I don't need to continually be down here pleading my case. I run a childare business out of my home. I care for younger children, infants through early elementary age. We fully utilize my backyard as part of healthy play for the children in my care. In fact, I just invested quite a bit of money in my backyard on play equipment, enclosures, landscaping, all in order to provide a safe place for my children to play outdoors. I do care for children outside of regular 9 to 5 hours, including evenings and weekends. I have been caring for children at my home when racing was going on at the racetrack. The noise

pollution was so loud I needed to leave my home to nap my children at as the racers were heard inside of my house with my windows closed. Now the fair board is back at it again bringing you a zoning amendment which will allow them to race apparently 5 days continually five times a year. A year ago, citizens spoke up against this racetrack. Petitions were signed, emails were sent to committee members, editorials written objecting to the use of a racetrack in the middle of Canon Falls. I am opposed to any and all motorized racing outside of the allotted time for the Canon Valley Fair. I'm asking this group to vote no and would like this illegally constructed racetrack to be taken down and put an end to this. I don't want a racing circuit in my backyard all summer. That's illegal. This committee unanimously voted against allowing a separate zoning for the Canon Valley Fair last year. At that time, former council member Gzmi was flatout opposed to quote any enginepowered racing as it affects the end the quality of life of residents when they can't even enjoy their own property on weekends. End quote. He's correct. Current member Johnson said, quote, "The racetrack is nowhere in our the city's comprehensive plan." End quote. I will tell you plainly, the fair board has lost my trust by illegally constructing this track and racing without any regards to the neighbors on the west side or anywhere else in this city. I'm asking for your help and protection. protect my business, the children in my care, my property and home values, and my rights. Please vote no on this zoning request. Thank you for your time and your consideration.

Hi, I'm Aaron McMahon. I live on Hoffman Street. So glad John mentioned the March date. I think it was March 2025. that he was referring to. And I really wish I had one of these handy timelines like he devised for the tract meeting last week which talked about timeline and public engagement so he could let us all know just how the city had been advocating for the citizens by working appropriately with tracked. What a horrible hanomonym because now we're talking about another track, aren't we? Again. Anyway, I go off script a little bit here and I want to officially say that nobody here is against the fair, but why but we are against this fair board. This fair board is running an institution that's very important to this community into the ground. It's it's they should all be impeached. I'll go on record as saying that. I have no issue. All right, back to script. There's no need to change the zoning classification of the fairs parcels from urban reserve and residential too. Why? When the two most common zoning classifications for fairs throughout the state are RA or agricultural residential and parks and wreck. None of the county or association fairs has a separate vote has a separate zoning classification. I checked. Did you all further? I'm so angry. I'm shaking cuz I can't believe I'm up here again. Further, page two, section 152.825 of the amendment in front of you lists the purpose of this amendment. And that purpose is purpose is to quote to clarify, regulate, and preserve the Canon Valley Fair's activities on the Canon Valley Fair Association property

to protect the public health, welfare, and safety of the community. End quote. In fact, the Minnesota Federation of County Affairs to which the fair board belongs and has mentioned on several occasions that it belongs lists its mission statement as quote to encourage all agricultural pursuits, all agricultural pursuits in any any other business incidental to agriculture or connected with agriculture. There are at least 11 ways the amendment contradicts not only the mission of agriculture pursuits but also the amendment's own stated purpose. I'll read it again. The purpose is to clarify, regulate, and preserve the Canon Valley Fair's activities on the Canon Valley Fair Association property to protect public health, welfare, and safety of the community. I I'm going to give you my 11 reasons why this shouldn't happen. I may have had some outside coaching on this. Number one, over broad reasoning and scope without corresponding protections. The PC PCA's offer to measure noise was ignored by last year's administration. I know because Lauren Dickerson reached out to me to tell me Neil Jensen wouldn't return her calls. and the sound measuring device Tim Schwarz of the PC PCA dropped off to measure the truck event. I'm guessing it's still on someone's desk down the hall. Even though the PCA, who is in the middle of a monster project, no pun intended, left it open-ended, hoping the city might return the favor and return the device for evaluation. There hasn't been any effort at protection since the first go-kart race. Number two, significant expansion of permitted uses and event frequ frequency

as in year round. Number three, discretionary allowances without standards. Zero standards for camping. Ouch. Number four, parking exemptions that shift burdens to neighborhoods. Five, noise, hours, and neighborhood combat. There is none. Six, outdoor storage permitted with relaxed standards. Why spend $6,000 on new signs if they'll be parked next to blight? Speaking of signs, number seven, signage intensity and visual impact. Will the mar marquee signs be blinking? Number eight, heightened setback allowances near residential districts. Number nine, environmental concerns. This isn't just about the noise. We were coached by the environmental quality board on the appropriate way to obtain signatures for an environmental assessment and we were able to acquire the 100 petition signatures for petition in less than 24 hours and we did follow chapter 11. Number 10, ordinance change will lower the city's property tax base, also known as sinking property values. Number 11. Finally, the passage of the ordinance is contrary to the stat statutory role of the city council. It's against the law. Please vote no. Hi, I'm Carmen Douglas at uh Minnesota Street West. Last year, all five members of the planning commission voted to deny recommending the amendment to the city zoning ordinance for a new fair zone, basically to allow motorized racing within the city limits. Here are some of those findings. Uh it was at the December 17th city council meeting.

Reszoning of a property to a fairground zoning district is inconsistent with the city's comprehensive plan by allowing a commercial use and racing facility that has been and continues to be advertised as an intense noise creating event that attracts large crowds which is wholly inconsistent with the purposes of and the uses allowed in the urban reserve and residential areas in the comprehensive plan. fair association's operation of a racetrack on the property did and would disrupt inter and interfere with residents enjoyment of their property due to excessive noise from racing and I will say motorized sports any motorized sports sports vehicles and loudspeaker announcements the city did receive in 2024 re receive numerous and persistent complaints from residents about the noise generate generated from the racing activities There was a resident residing on Minnesota Street that did report measuring noise levels on his or her property in excess of 80 dB during one race. The fair association's use of the property for a gen for engine powered racing generates noise that creates a nuisance is incompatible with surrounding uses and would harm the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the land and residents and surrounding property. at that city council meeting after this decision was made. At that time, the mayor expressed his wish that the city attorney and the fairboard attorney should get together and work out some compromise. Now, we just find out from John that there were the staff and the mayor and the attorneys all got together and came up with this wonderful plan that's going to be good for everybody and good for everyone in the city. It looks like they came up with the with a dream zone for their autocross, motocross, monster truck rallies, demo derbies, large crowd events and

festivals, tractor poles, rodeos, oh, and snowcross. So, not only disturbing our summer afternoons and evenings. This would continue year round. Yes, that's decreasing the levels and frequency of the noise, that obnoxious noise that you and I could listen to possibly every weekend. The fair board wants five scheduled events. That's about one per month. And anything else also in between that they can come up with. I'm urging you to again deny this recommendation for an amendment to the ordinance. Please send a message to the council that this request is absurd. Tell the fair board to find another place to make their noise. Good evening, Kurt Bicil, uh, Minnesota Street West. Um, again, I just want everybody to know that nothing none of this is personal. You guys are all good.

It is. I will say we are fighting for our enjoyment to our property. Prepare down there. No, just listen to what we're saying.

Yeah, but it's really it's nothing personal, but we have to fight for our own properties and our own enjoyment to our properties. um when this all started we we it's been going back and forth and it's been very um trying um it's been very difficult and it's for both parties. Um when I got when I found out about the resoning committee uh or the committee planning commission looking at resoning again, I think some letters went off went out to people just above the fair grounds for the people that it affect most. I never received the the note saying that they're consider reszoning, but and that's because they're saying we're not probably not as affected as much. We're on the other side of the street. And this is what I have. This is when they were racing at night. And a lot of people are saying it's not that loud. And I'm not making this up. This was me at 9:30 at night outside my home. This is what it was sounding. It is 9:30 at night. And this is what we hear on the west side above the fairgrounds. I'm raising my voice so I can record this. But this is what we're listening to. And that's what it sounds like across the street from my place. You go down a block, it's not going to be a whole lot different. So don't let that people say it's not that loud. It is terribly loud. Um, so going forward, I I just want to challenge, and this is actually meant more for the council, but I want the the planning commission to think of this as well, and that is what if I were a citizen and I had land, owned land just north of the people on the west side, and I wanted to ask for a variance so that I might be able to use the land for concerts, races, and motocrosses. Do you think the city would allow it?

This response would most likely be a unanimous no. Why? Why should I not have the same privileges? If the city were to deny my request, since this is zoned R2 or urban development residential, should I then ask that the real estate be reszoned? Even though the planning commission is unanimously unanimously against it, which it has been due to the adverse effects to the residents, should I have the right to request it be reszoned to fit my agenda. Again, this would most definitely be a resounding no. City council members are expected to base their votes on the public interest and the well-being of the community rather than on personal feelings, biases, or special interests. The primary duty of an elected official is to uphold the maximum benefit for the community and not an individual or spec specific groups. Citizens have the right to expect that governmental decisions are fair and unbiased based upon objective information and consideration of the facts, not personal relationships or emotions. As concerned citizens, we were the ones who have pushed for environmental studies, not the council, so that objective information could be obtained. We have asked city council members to visit our homes when such events have taken place. I don't I thank both Miss Johnson and Mr. Nobach for doing their due diligence. For those who have not, how can you vote on an issue for which you have no objective information or have not experienced? How can the city come to terms on a plan with input from the fair board and their attorneys, but without any representation from the residents of the community? Where is the transparency? At this time, we humbly ask the council that your decisions be made for the betterment of the community and its residents for which you were sworn to uphold. Thank you.

Jackie Bruin, 105 Haven Heights Court. So, my husband and I live right above the fairgrounds. We in the last few years have installed completely new windows to our house. High-grade, high-end Marvin windows. Even with the windows shut, we can hear the racing. Multiple times last year, I got phone calls from a friend who lives over by the high school asking if there was an event going on at the fairgrounds because they could hear it over by the high school. So, the noise doesn't just affect those of us that lived right above the fairgrounds. It's affecting people all over town. At uh the December 2024 planning commission meeting, Bruce Hemma recommended that the fair board review their mission statement and then their renew their focus to follow their actual mission. So, I went online and found the following mission statement for the fair board. To foster community spirit by organizing events that promote local agricultural traditions, education, and entertainment. I failed to understand how reszoning the fairgrounds as what's being proposed to allow for this racing meets the mission statement. Instead, the proposed reasonzoning goes against the board's mission. The racing events have nothing to do with promoting agriculture. Uh, as we learned at a prior planning council at prior planning council meetings, members of the local community are not using the racetrack for entertainment or for education. The people that are using the racetrack that are doing the actual racing are not from Canon Falls. We've only had one or two individuals who are not from Canon Falls, but are from the surrounding area. The rest of the individuals

participating are from other states such as Wisconsin and from towns quite a distance away from Canon Falls. Finally, in regards to the mission statement, the continued disregard of the residents of Canon Falls is not helping the city, but it's actually harming and not and not fostering community spirit. the for the fair board has stated on multiple uh times that uh let me start over again. The fair board alleges the reszoning which will allow for this racing plus probable expansion in the future because as we've seen this keeps continuing to grow is needed to provide funds to repair the fair infrastructure. A board member has stated at prior planning commission meetings that they had explored all possible sources to raise funds and there were no feasible options. I can't remember anything being shared with the community on this issue. Maybe I missed it, but I can't remember anything in the beacon conversations, anything to include the community. The residents of Canon Falls have a history of generosity toward caring for this community. take a look at what we did with uh various things like building the school fieldhouse, an auditorium, fixing up John Burch Park, the veterans memorial, operating a food shelf, and rebuilding a library, which we continue to fund. This shows the commitment of the people of Canon Falls to taking care of Canon Falls and its citizens. something as simple as a GoFundMe page could raise a significant amount of money to fix these buildings that are supposedly in bad shape. And I agree because as a volunteer at the fair every year uh helping Sandy Hansen, I've seen

the condition of the buildings and they do need to be updated, but we aren't looking at the options. If the fair board is honestly seeking solutions to find in for to find funds for infrastructure improvements, they could reach out to the community and give us an opportunity to be involved. Another item to be considered about the impact of resoning is the hidden costs that are going to be foisted upon us, the taxpayers that live within the city limits. These events at the fairgrounds will require that at the very least we'll be paying for extra street maintenance, law enforcement, and possible needs with the fire department, the fair board, the participants who are again almost all from not in canon the Cannon Falls area and the companies that are going to be pro profiting from these events will not be covering all these hidden costs. Instead, they're going to be added to the property taxes of those of us that live within the city limits of Canon Falls. I don't know about you guys, but my property taxes are pretty dang high, and I don't need them going up any further. I recently lost my mother. She owns a lake property up in northern Minnesota. The property taxes on her lake property on a house that's valued at a million dollars are less than my property taxes here in Canon Falls. So now I'm probably I possibly could have another few dollars added here or there because we have to cover racing activities. Not on my property taxes. In closing, I'm dis deeply disappointed that the Canon Valley Fair Board continues with their sneaky maneuvering

to try to get this issue through that is only going to inflict harm on the members of this community. I hope the planning commission recommends no to the reasonzoning and the city council continues with another vote of no as well. Thank you. Steve Gz uh Park Street West and u I don't know nobody has yet to build an engine loud enough that I say no to. I can't get enough of loud engines. I just can't uh foresee it being here in in the the neighborhood over there. Um you uh I just want to pl uh common sense, you know, um the people want this. They they want to get it get it through. So they'll they'll probably attend And then maybe u their children will get bored. They'll get bored and want to go home to peace and quiet. Neighbors can't. They're there. Um they want they want this and they decide not to go. They pushed it through. They're okay with it. Neighbors have to be there. 10 years down the road, you find a different interest. It

doesn't interest you anymore. The neighbors are still there. Still there. And I would uh just one more thing if I can find it. Uh, we're all talking about I think John mentioned that they're waiting for levels

sounds. Okay, here's what I found as far as noise ordinance. No person shall make or cause to be made any distinctly and loudly audible noise that unreasonably annoys disturbs, injures or endangers, comfort, repose, health, peace, safety or welfare welfare of any person or precludes their enjoyment of property or affects their property's value. I think you don't need decimals. You just need a little common sense. That's all I have. Thank you. Jodie Montgomery, 109 Haven Heights Court. I wasn't planning on speaking tonight, so I'm not prepared. But I found out tonight after reading and what people have said that they want five weekends a year. I have consecutive days. Five consecutive days means hitting work days for people, which like in Jan's case, she works out of her home. My husband and I, we are both remote workers. We work from home. I do accounting and my husband has another job that is remote. Our yard backs up to the fairgrounds. That is going to be very disruptive for people who are trying to do work during the day while they are at their own home on their own property. And that is something that needs to be taken into account because these days more and more people are working remote. And it just seems like we keep having this discussion. We keep having this having to keep fighting for our rights as citizens of this town to be able to enjoy our own property.

I mean, I had a shower la not not this past summer, the previous summer for my son because they were having a baby and that day happened to be a day that they decided they're going to have a race and I had to come had people outside in my yard trying to communicate with the race going on. And the person who had the recording, that was not an exaggeration. I could sit on my front step and I could hear the announcements and tell you every single winner of every single race that took place that day. And that's the that's the low part. That's not even accounting for the races itself. And it is a disruption for everybody, especially on the west side. But I hear it from people all over town that they can hear this race going on. So I would really appreciate it if you take us all into consideration and say no to this resoning. Thank you.

I wasn't planning to speak. Furland Miller, president of the Canon Valley Fair Board. One thing I will say, I'll be the piece of Leave the fair board alone. Blame it on me. I don't appreciate you taking them all down. I'm sorry. Was there a vote? That was ridiculous. Okay. Okay. So, as far as financials, here they are. Last two years ago, $4,000 profit this year were $30,000 in the hole. There's your numbers. You want to look at them. All your numbers are public knowledge. They're right here. But that wasn't that this year. I I went to 2024.

So, back on to this whole

thing. They keep referring to the race cars. We're not race and sprint cars. That's what they're referring to. It's clear in here. Gone. We're not having nothing to do with that. The five events, five days. It wasn't that we're planning to have a fiveday straight demolition derby or anything else. It was the idea that if they show up today to prepare for the race on a Friday or Saturday, it would be included. So if they pulled into the fairgrounds, it was covered. Otherwise, someone would make a complaint on them pulling into the fairgrounds two days prior to the event to get ready for the event. If you only want it for two days of the event, we're good with that. We're open to negotiating all this. You know what? I gave my phone number to Aaron McMahon. Call me. Let's talk about this. We're open to talking to the whole community. Come talk to us. We've announced that our meetings are the third Monday of every month. It's open. Come on in. Talk to us. Nobody has showed up. But then you want to sit here and say, "We're not negotiating." The city council wanted us to have our attorney, the city's attorney, and that group get together. This is what they came up with. This was voted on by the city council to do this. So, I'm not really following where this is going. Happy to answer your questions on any of this. I don't know what to say. The property values are not going to go down. This stuff has been going on at that fair for years. It only became a problem because of the go-kart track. You know what? I'm with you guys. The micro sprints are allowed. We were under a contract. We'd have got sued if we went to finish the year. They're done. The micro sprints are gone.

Not really sure what else to do. We're in the hole. We didn't run no events. $30,000 in the hole right now. If you guys don't want the fair, just let us know. We can shut the door, shut her down, do whatever they want to do with it. But we need to be able to keep operating. We got to be able to do other events. Talking rodeos. We can't do rodeos. Now, where does it stop? Worrying about noise. I can hear the football field and the baseball field from my house up on 1016 Minnesota Street West. I don't hear complaints on that. That's a loud as can be. But you know what? It's part of a community and it's awesome. And let's talk about the economic impact at that fair and the events do. There's a lot of money that comes to this town from what that fair does. And let me tell you, the fair alone spends over 20 grand a year in buying stuff. Do you want the fair to go away? It's a lot of money going to leave this town. It's a choice you got to make. I think it's a positive thing. We're not here to harm anybody. We'd love to work with you. You got to show up and talk to us. We can't work with people who aren't going to show up and talk to us. The only thing we get is something from an attorney. Come talk. We're open. Every one of these people will sit and listen. You guys act like we won't. We will. We want input. And we don't want to have to beg everybody for money. Come show up to the fair. You a lot of you stated you don't go to the fair, but you you'll fund us on a GoFundMe page. Doesn't make sense. Come to the fair. It's all I got. You guys got questions?

Yeah, just you say you want input. Yep. You met with the city and you met with the council. Well, why wasn't there anything put out that said, hey, you know, towns people, why don't you come and talk to us? Here's what we're thinking about doing. Here's what we want to do. That was never ever brought up, I don't think. I mean, I don't remember seeing anything that said you were going to do this and why don't you come and talk to us? I I agree with you, but you know what? I don't have your guys all your contacts. I would assume you guys were sending the emails to the city that would have came out of there if it was coming out of anywhere. I

I'm not even saying to us personally. I'm saying put something in the beacon. Hey, you're interested in what's going on with us here at the fairgrounds. Come on in. Come see us. Come talk to us. We want to talk. Oh, just the fairgrounds ourselves. Whatever you guys have are going. That's Oh, I thought you were talking about the negotiations. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm talking about you had the city and you had the council and you guys y but you have how many other people that live in this town that didn't even know you were meeting. Why not open it up and say, "Hey, we're going to have a meeting of the city and the fairgrounds and any towns people that want to come come on in." But that never happened. I would love to have that. That's why we told you strictly, you and your wife actually showed up to a meeting and we appreciate that. Yes.

That was awesome. Third Monday, come on in. It's open meeting, open to the public. 7 o'clock start. You can speak all you want. The only thing we do is finish the meeting with just the board for the business end of it, but that that's been public forever that it's the 7:00 third Monday. BFW DFW starting uh Monday and it'll be that way all winter. Summers will have it back over there when it's warmer. I got one question for Lyn. Is that Is the spring car track still up? It is at this point. Why is it not been removed? Because we still got to wait for the If you're not going to do it,

we got to still wait for Jeff to get his stuff that he wants to recycle out of it before we can do anything with it. For that or

I would think the summer will happen. It ain't going to happen before the summer. I mean, it just can't. We got winter time coming and obviously there's a cost associated with hiring a dozer and you can see where our numbers are. But you can come over and look at it. It's all over growing of the grass and weeds and everything. Thanks. Anybody else? I want to ask you again for I'm looking at this number too and I know that this this was set up by our council I believe but I just want to ask you about this. says, "Canon Valley Fair Association may hold up to five motorport activities annually, provided, however, that the city council may allow additional motorport activities upon request." That's very ambiguous to me. It's like, what does my request mean? It's like, are you saying no, we're really only going to do five, but we thought we should put that in just to protect us in case you want to do 10.

Right. So, here here's why it was that number. You see our numbers right now. We're 30,000 in hole. To be honest with you, this fair board would just love to run the fair and be done. They bust their butt. You said how it looks nice over there. That's volunteers showing up to mow it. Yes, there's a cost. We got to pay for fuel and mowers. We got to buy mowers. But we're doing that all ourselves. To maintain this, to have other events takes a lot of work. And these guys all got full-time jobs. But in order to pay the bills, keep the lights on, we got to have room to be able to do something. Now, if you take history, how many motorsports events have we had outside of the fair on average? Maybe two, if you take away the go-kart track prior to that, we've had a fall and a and a and a spring cleanup demos, Memorial Madness, and something in the fall. It's been two, not five, but we have it on there as five. You get in a bad situation where we are is when you might need to do a few more events. We've had snow crosses there. We've had motocross races. As a matter of fact, a lot of the old board members who are no longer on there had all this stuff. It's nothing new. So, to be honest with you, Ferlin, when I voted on this for council, that's kind of what I expected it to be. I kind of expected it to be a Memorial Day, Labor Day thing, fair, and that's it. But when I look at this, I see you got your five days, and I get your intent, don't get me wrong. You got five events, you got five days. You're probably only going to run three of those days. But when you look at the letter of the law here, you are allowed

to do five days. someone after you could come along and say, "It's right here. It's clear as day. I can run all five days." Correct. There's too much ambiguity in here in my opinion. I mean, we got six special events. Yes. It appears all those have to be permitted and approved by city council. Is that correct, John? Special events permitted use. It says there's six special events. There's no date on that right now. I think it's permitted use. So I think it'd have to come before council or planning commission. No, in in this instance, permitted use is is allowed within the district without

Okay. So, so he gets to run a special event and there's no time limit on there's no doesn't say what a special event if it could be a week, it could be a day, it could be four hours, it doesn't say it's at 8:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. It doesn't define what a special event is. which has enough of the definitions about but in terms of time could be considered to be a special event but I I think part of this too is when when this all this language is trying to be put together by both the city attorney and our attorney was we could sit here and have a 700page document

or we can try to group this together and figure this out without getting things to

and here's here's where I think I have a problem with it. At the end of the day, if this gets passed, you are officially you are codified into city code, city law right now. And no offense, this is just how I see it. Right now, this whole argument came up because you were an egg society and then we couldn't prove that you were or were not or you couldn't prove that you were or were not. There was no legal standing. I believe that's what Shelley said. It would have to go to trial. And the moment we approve this, you are going to have legal standing. You will have an advantage over all the residents there that have an issue. And I just don't think that that's in the best interest of the city at this point.

And and and whatever you guys think is is what you got to do. But I guess my question is to you guys is if it's not this, what is it? I mean,

I don't have those answers, Berlin. I I can tell you I don't have an issue with outdoor storage. I you know I think there's going to have to be compromise somewhere. I don't know how you get there. Clearly there's animosity even when Kurt was standing up here and you know a little back and forth like I don't know how we fix it. I just don't I don't think this is it because I just don't think honestly we've had an issue. We've had an issue trying to pin down how many decibels it is. We you can't clearly measure any of this stuff. It's not very tangible. I don't know how you get there. And there's unhappy people because of it.

100%. You know, you can go as far as if someone's mowing their yard, if it if it irritates me at my house, that that's what they're reading on the noise ordinance. That that's a fact. It's irritating to me, I can raise heck. We're not trying to create that problem. We actually sat down to negotiate this with the city like it was asked to try to come up with something. Now, are we saying this is 100% in stone? No. Is there parts you guys are good with? Is there parts you hate? We're okay to sit down at a table and renegotiate some of this that I don't think that this was 100% sit here and go, but it can't just be that's just junk. There's got to be parts of this that you guys are good with and there's parts we can pull out. Let's sit down and talk. Let's rework them if we have to. We're open to it.

See, and that's what I brought up earlier. It's like you're saying, why don't we come to you? Why don't you open yourselves up to us the community and say, "Look, how about we're going to have some meetings on this, all of those in the community, now that we have this, the community can look at this over, check it out, see what they want to say, come back and say, "I don't like this. I don't like this. I don't like this." And you come back and say, "Well, if you don't like that, how about this?" I mean, if you're trying to find a compromise, that's probably the only way you're going to do it with the community. You can't do it with the city and you guys. Okay. And and you're 100% right, but we had to start somewhere. But that's what I'm asking is how come the community wasn't thought of it.

Now is the time for the community. Let's figure out what we can all come up with. But the community can't sit zero because I can tell you right now there's many in this community that would be like no. There's nothing wrong with this. So, and if we're going to let the community decide, well, we could let the community decide. I mean, I think we can all sit down and work with this group, but they can't come there with zero We got to have some compromise on both sides and we're more than welcome and willing to do that. This got us to where we are to have a starting point. Now it's time to work it out from there. Does it?

Okay. Let me and we're technically I think still in uh the um what do we call it? Public hearing. Public hearing. And so I'm I I don't want to anybody else who and and I appreciate the discussion that's going back and forth and I don't want to cut you off but at the same time I didn't know if there was anybody else here that wanted to speak on the public hearing and then when we have it go back to the thing I think we can still have you involved in that. Yeah. Chair Johnson. Yeah, that would be typical practical. We'll get through the public hearing. Any more comments made from individuals and then we can move into discussion in which the you know primary stakeholder of this should have opportunity to

speak to the any questions or answer anything related to the so draft ordinance.

Back to the kind of public hearing part of it and and thank you for and for the comments. Are there others who would like to speak at the public hearing? Because once we close the public hearing, of course, then can't speak anymore. Hey, I wasn't planning on speaking. This might not be appropriate, but I'm Courtney Roostead. I live at 100 Tamir Lane and I feel like a lot of us aren't I'm not going to assume everybody else. I am not personally against the fair doing events. I would love for Ferlin to come up and talk about some of the ideas they have. I know how important it is to raise funds for nonprofit organizations. So maybe I can't ask him questions right now, but I just want him to come up and explain like what are some of the ideas of the events that they are going to bring to the the fair grounds. Kind of talk about it with us. Maybe if we knew that they were going to be rodeos or they were going to be quieter events, we would be more on board. And then also how they're going to address the camping. Um I walked my dog down there and I when they did have all the camping, there was lots of RVs and I was just curious as to where the septic was going or where the water was going or how they were handling bathroom garbage, those kind of things. So I would just like clarification because I'm not opposed to bringing in events. So thank you. I'm going to come up one more time and then I want clarification. One other thing too again Jod Montgomery on Haven Heights Court. It states in there that there to allow six special events and then in the motorsports part of it it was five con five events for five consecutive days. Does that mean that that's 11 events or are the motorized part of the special events? And again, I'd like clarification on what's the

differences and what those would consist of you.

I didn't know we could go twice, but I feel a little threatened by Ferlin. Um Jesus.

Uh I didn't care for that at all, actually. Um, so the fact of the matter is is they haven't been negotiating. Um, March of 2023 is when they started building the track. May of 2023, I believe, is when we the city council um, put it on the they didn't put it on the agenda. They put it as a point of discussion. they could not have it as an action item, but they um they the the community came. They talked about how nervous they they were about about the track and about the events going on um at the fairgrounds and they were worried about the noise and about the environment. And um so while Ferland stands up here and says that he's willing to negotiate and this is just a starting point, that's we've just been lied to for 2 years. And the starting point was when they built the motorized track without permit or input from the city, the council, the residents. And actually, this text amendment would allow them to have events 365 days a year. It just it just limits the motorized ones. So they can do whatever they want if if that if they get their own zoning, they can do whatever they want, whenever they want with any conditional use that any future council allows. Um, so I think I think there's been um there's been a pattern here that the fair board has has been it's just a pattern of them lying and then coming back and then saying, you know, hey, we want to negotiate or the fair is just going to go away. Like they're threatening to take the fair away. Like you know what? This is a business. If you can't operate your business, it's not the city council's fault. It's not

the citizens's fault. It's a business and I don't know anybody. I mean, what's up next? Are we gonna Are we gonna save Altos? I don't know. All right. Thanks. And when you come up the second time, yeah, we'll keep it a little bit quicker.

Um, this is just a real quick question and just out of respect and just out of ambiguity, um, just for I'm just wondering what what the definition of motor racing is going to be. Um, I know the micro sprints are out and that's I think that's great. Um, but even these 250cc two-stroke motorcycles or snowmobiles, um, if that's going to be say it ever does come down to every, you know, five weekends of the year, it could start on a Friday, a Saturday, maybe a Sunday. That's a lot, you know. So, I'm just looking for clarification. There's ambiguity on what you mean by motorsports. What does that all mean going forward? So, just a question.

Okay. Thank you.

You want me to answer anyone else who hasn't had an opportunity to speak? I mean, not that we can't do seconds, but um we just do time for fame and glory here. sad, but um Bill Moroski 104 to Mayor Lane. Obviously, this proposal probably is not the best, but I do think there's I'm not opposed to none of them bringing monster trucks one weekend of a summer. Snowcross would be sick. Even motocross, one weekend's not that bad. You probably handle it. But as always, we got to figure out better details and stuff like that. So, that's it. Any other further uh people willing to or wanting to speak during the public hearing going once?

Okay. Okay. I just I just have to say this. Kerman Douglas, Minnesota Street. Does it have to be motorized? Does it have to be a monster truck rally? Does it have to be anything that Why does it have to be loud? I'm sure if you guys and if the whole city, we could sit down and figure out something else to do that's not loud. Thank you. Anyone else we wishing to speak at the public hearing? I shouldn't say that. Maybe

we want everybody to be I just I just want to say that number one, this is a hard situation for you. Um you have to sit and listen to our frustrations, the frustrations of the fair board. This is personal not only to the residents but to the fair board. So this is escalated because it probably wasn't handled right at the beginning with the races. And it all stems back to that. And now we've got to figure out a way coming together as a community that we can keep our fair but also protect the rights of the homeowners.

Thank you. Anyone wishing to speak? I'll ask time. Anyone wishing to speak for the public hearing? I will ask a third time. Anyone wishing to speak? If not, the public hearing is closed at 7:31. I can find my agenda page. Now we move on to the discussion from the commission on the proposed ordinance.

Yes, I'll start. I I mean, as I alluded to before, I just don't see I'm not seeing a great way to administer anything in here. You know, I'm reading it as, you know, here's your permitted uses. Yeah, you get you get to have the fair, which is great. Don't get me wrong. I do love the fair. Camping during six special events, motorsport activity, and then it goes defines motorsport activity with your five consecutive days, five events, 8:00 a.m. to 10 p.m., which is 14 hours, by the way. And I know that's not your intent, but that's what this is telling whoever comes along after you. If they want to do that, they can do that. Get to outdoor storage. Cool. I love outdoor storage. I've used it before. It's great. Parking signs and then special events. says, "Canon Valley Fair Association shall provide the city notice of the special event, including a description and schedule of special event at least 30 days prior to the start of special event." Again, I'm not reading this to say, "Hey, the special event can only be 3 days, 1 day, 2 days. Here's your operating hours." Unless I'm misinterpreting this, I don't see how there's zero guardrails on a special event in my opinion. There's just nothing. This is not enforcable and we've had issues enforcing city code previously. I just don't I'm sorry. I don't see it and I don't think this is it and I can't support it and that's just where I'm at right now.

Chris, other comments from commissioners? Is there a reason I mean with all the the hostility with the racetrack and noise? Is there a reason we don't have any readings in terms of noise or anything relative to that?

We the noise study that was is actually completed back in September for that the event that was there. Uh we had been we indicated to u MPCA in October that the our study evaluation times were done that they want they wanted told us or what was informed to me was they were The people doing the study communicated with MPCA. We told them to come pick up the device because they will do the evaluation and give us the report back. We did that multiple times throughout the month of October. They just finally came to pick it up. I believe it was the end of the previous week. So, it's we we've tried like I don't know was said they alluded that we were supposed to haul it up there. We offered that we could do that, but nobody gave us directions on to who it was supposed to go to, where it was supposed to go, and you would think that sounds.

I I only asked because I mean without having it, right? Like the only insight we can have is the residents, which from somebody who lives up on Hoffman above the fire station, you can hear it there too, right? So I and I agree with Chris. I I think this is maybe a good first step, but that's it, right? Because there's too much ambiguity. And I' I'd be curious to know in regard to your funding gap with with all these different ideas, is there sort of a percentage of ratio in terms of what fills that gap? Is it primarily the racetrack you guys are sort of banking on this or is it the camping or or how does that how does that work in terms of your guys' expected expenditures versus money's bringing in in terms of revenues? Well, we the racetrack. I mean, we got to that's nothing to do

mix the racetrack. Oh, yeah. Okay. Motorized. All right. Let's clarify. So, a motorized event, one of them. Oh, and then Chris, while you're the front page here and then to the back page that talks about um that defines the special events, what they are like weddings, the Lions Club using the fairgrounds. Um that's your special event stuff that we're talking about. So, if we want to do like a wine and arts festival, something like that that's not motorized, that's more of a a

right like a like a here it says concert. So, does that mean that you can run a festival festival for three days and food trucks and all the other stuff? Like, I don't know what it means, you know?

Yeah, I think there was something that was a definition about concerts of doing a concert or something down there that was brought up. Um, but back to your your question on on the on the motorsport stuff is demolition derby. That's stuff that we've done in that demo pit since hell I've been in this town born in 69 and they've been doing demos as long as I can remember in that same pit. That's not changing. A monster truck event maybe. A lot of this stuff is not set up to do every year, year after year. Um maybe a snowcross one winter. That's the thing with all these events. It's not set up to do these events every year and all these weekends or whatever. It's designed that if we want to do one, we're able to do it. Now, the question is, how do you outline that to say, well, we're going to only do one demo and one snowcross this year, but next year we would like to do two demos and a snowcross. How do you put that language in there? That's why it was put the way it is. I get what you're saying, Chris, and I 100% understand that. It's just that's what we fought with trying to figure out how to put that language together.

Um, I I think what you were asking too is like how much money do you what's the net off of like the demo derby or or the whatever. So, if we if we do an event like a demolition derby, we bring them in to run the demolation derby, we'll net probably for ourselves between four and $5,000 off of that event. Does that help? Okay, go ahead. If you have that that's great. I guess I'm wondering so so the other components, right, the camping and all those where do those fall in line? Because I'm just wondering is that is that sort of what you're banking on, right? Is that the majority of what you're looking for?

So, so the camping portion of that is the only reason that's in there is like if we do like a memorial madness, what they call the guys that do the the drivers and stuff will come in and they'll actually camp at the fairgrounds. The idea with the camping is there's probably not enough motel in town, even though some of them will go to the motel, but a lot of them will camp right there. Now, the camping agreement is that they got to camp down where the midway is. So, it's down away from the residents, down as low as we can keep it away from everybody. Um, with the camping, to answer a question that was asked out here, they're self-contained. So, their water, sewer, they keep in their camper. They got to pay to dump it somewhere. Just so I can answer that question. Seems we're talking about camping. And camping can only be done by the event holder. And they can only pull two permits a year from the state of Minnesota. that's not pulled by the fair. If they want to do it, they got to pay their own fees to do it. If we as a fair wanted to hold an event that we're going to run, we would have to pay for that permit. So, it's all run by the event to have to pull that permit and we check on it. The other thing is is noise. 100% the police have every right to enforce. If the people are partying too late or whatever and it's too loud, they're breaking noise ordinance. We as a fair are saying come in, do what you got to do. Write them up, ticket them. That that's what should be done. We're not giving them a party all night.

So, I guess I got two questions. So, if you care to answer what does the outdoor storage, how much do you make off that a year? Are you is that a significant portion of this? the outdoor storage. Yeah. I mean, we do pretty decent on that. I I mean, there's two parts that, right? We got the indoor storage that no one can see. It's all in our buildings. That's where we make most of the the money off of. The outdoor storage, you know, we got maybe a half a dozen to a dozen outdoor units there in the winter time. So, it's not a lot. And I'm just pointing this out because this is how I remember it. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. But you just talked about partying, camping, all that stuff, right? And if they're breaking the law, they're breaking the law. They should stop. Now, didn't you guys get a cease and desist for noise ordinance for for the the racing and that was still allowed? Cease and desist happened, but they the old fair board or whoever else was in front of you

allowed it to happen or what? Let's back it up. your city administrator right here when he not John Neil Neil y had told us I'm going to give you the cease and assist order but you don't have to follow it while we're working through this we were told so we kept doing what we were doing while we were working through it so that came from the city administrator because when we got the letters nope not John not John let's get let's make it clear That was Neil. That came from Neil. So, we just moved along. Go ahead, Jess.

Okay. Uh, so just to clarify a couple of things for everybody uh out in the crowd here. Um, the reason why we have this zone change is because the fair does not fit in the requirements of urban reserve or single family residential. So, what's happened is is because of that racetrack that got put in And because of all of that, um, all of this has bubbled up. And the city, however many decades ago it was, called this area urban reserve and residential, and they just did it, I'm assuming, because it was just easy to leave it the way it was. And we're not in that scenario anymore, right? So there has to be in my opinion there has to be a change because legally the fair can't exist under this zone. Now, I also don't I don't care for what's in this document and I um because of the stuff that's like we've been talking about some of the ambiguity, right? And not knowing what's going to happen after this after your board, you know, 15 years down the line,

right? It gets interpreted differently. Um, and it's also very difficult to come up with something that can catch all the stuff without getting into a really thick document. And I get that. Um, and it probably wouldn't be as as big of a a problem except for that loud stuff that we've had in the past. Right. So, everybody's a little bit um not very trusting of of what's happened. Um so, I think there's some different things and and people brought up some interesting stuff. Um and I can't touch on all of it because uh there's just too much. Um, I don't I don't care for like the fiveday stuff, right? And I get it, right? But when you read it, it's it's like, well, man, we can start on a Tuesday, right? Um, and I know that you don't want to do that. And I and I um and I do like the fact that you guys will do other things. Um, right. I I don't know what I don't know. I mean, a lot of the stuff that was talked about tonight was revolving around the noise of that of the micro sprints.

Yeah.

And I don't know if uh if you have if you have five dirt bike races there, you know, if that's going to be any better, right? And when you when you have this in place, the way that it's written, it's hard to get around it after the fact. Um, right. Because enforcement is difficult. Nobody wants to be the bad guy and enforce. No, the city doesn't want to come to you and say, "Listen, we've got a guy. He's got his he's got his microphone. Um, clearly this is too loud. Um, and the city either has to, I don't know, levy a fine or have have the police shut down it. Right. So that it's like Right. not a good situation for the fair board to deal with either. And uh my intent is to to try to make it to a a meeting for I do have some thoughts. Um and I'm glad we finally got to 700 p.m. uh third Monday of every month at the VFW.

That'll be next Monday.

My god, it is. Um, so I don't have a pro. I don't like this document. Um, and I'm going to come to the meeting and I'm going to throw some stuff at you to see what sticks and what, you know, doesn't. Um cuz I I I did talk to the mayor a long time ago about that that something has to get figured out because what we have in place doesn't work either, right? Um with the residential and the urban reserve. Um so um anything else? Yeah, we'll talk.

Look forward to it. Okay. Berlin. Yes. Is this is you are you considered a nonprofit? I know that there's a for-profit and there's a nonprofit involved in your thing. Is is this part here? Would this be considered the nonprofit? The whole fair operates as a nonprofit. That's that's why um I mean that that that we're 501c3 whatever it it's all nonprofit. I mean we don't run out of profit. So I guess when I'm looking at it and I'm I'm sort of like I've got a whole bunch of things I could talk to you about too. But as a nonprofit Well, I'm just on the street. Stop down and talk to me. You're never home. Okay.

Give me my phone number. We'll talk. I guess as a nonprofit we want to maintain a communication with the community and that's and as a nonprofit basically supposedly if you're at zero they want to know that's what you're supposed to be at. You've covered all your expenses, covered everything like that.

And I guess what I'm saying is to keep this looking good for the future for you and for the community. I think we need to have like we were talking about we need to have a discussion at the beginning of every year or something like that that says Ferlin where'd you come out well fair came out here at uh we had $25,000 positive this year okay so where are you going to use that and you tell us where it's going to go and then you tell us what you're going to need then as a community we can come back and we can say

we don't like what you're going to use there but how about if you did this I mean this is what I think if you want to keep this going and not have the animosity on both sides there has to be meeting and just even once a year just to have have it so that you know where the community is thinking, we know where you're thinking and then we can try to bring this back together again. Because I was looking at this and I was like, "Wow, this is this is single family residential. That's a hell of a nice territory to put some new houses in as long as the right houses go in, right?"

You know, but that's what I'm saying. It's like if if it's going to be a fair fair district, then certain things need to be set up under you. Like to me, I'll be truthful with you. Your outside storage I think is a it looks terrible. Every time I drive by there, I see those outside things just sitting out there. If you get the F district, move it down to the urban renewal and stick them to the far end and store them down there so that when we drive by, we can see the fair instead of all these. Those are the kind of things I'm talking about that we need to talk with you about. You need to tell us what you're thinking and we can work this through. Not just now, like every year, you know, every year we talk, you tell us what's going on, what you're thinking. Then we have communication. Now it's you saying here's what we're going to do or the city saying, "Here's what you're going to do." And now you got the community saying, "No, you're not going to do that. We're going to do this." And that's the issue we got.

Well, how about this? I'll propose this right now. We have our um stockholder meeting always in October. That's when the past board members that hold stock are there. Every November, I'll put it out now, the third Monday of November, we will even advertise it. We would love to hear the public come down and give us some input because I'll tell you what, 17 board members, seven associates, our brains are blowed up. We're trying to come up with stuff that'll work. Yeah,

let me tell you, it's not easy. We don't have great indoor buildings for like a wedding because we don't have buildings with indoor plumbing. We don't have buildings that are insulated. So, a lot of the stuff with every fairgrounds throughout state of Minnesota, it's designed on outdoor events and it always leads to motorsports because that's the easiest and the thing that fairgrounds are meant for. between the agricultural and that I mean we do have horses there. They're there all the time. Get a little from them and it's great. I wish we could get more horses to be honest with you. It's it's great. But we want more ideas and we'd love to have events that aren't motorsports. That's I think that's the problem. And I do want to say to you guys, there was a change in the fair board over this car track, right? That's how I ended up getting elected president. and standing in front of you guys is because the past one kind of had a battle over here with the last city administrator and that's why we end up where we are. So, we're trying to fix it and we're doing our best. And I'm sorry, Erin. I'll apologize to you, but it makes me frustrated when we're doing our damnedest. We understand the cart track was a problem with the micros and we totally are gone from them. We want to be a partner with the community and we're willing to do what it takes, but we still got to be able to do some things there. I get it. Not every weekend. Nobody wants that. We don't. It's too much work. Trust me, these people go to full-time jobs and volunteer all their time. It's not easy. So, I I think that's the thing that everybody's got to look at is that's not what we're looking for. Well, that's why I'm saying that's why you need to to work with the community. You know,

there's going to be people that might come to your to the meeting that don't even know it's that's coming up, but if they know that there's one coming that weren't here, that might come and say, you know, I really think you should try this and you'll go, "What a great idea." And and what we'll do is starting next year on for that November meeting, we will post it on Facebook and we will put it in the paper and we'll open it up to a open public meeting. It would be awesome for next November. for next November. I mean, this one here is next Monday. You guys all come if you want, but that's what I'm saying. But I'm saying we still got a summer coming up, right?

And that's why I'm saying we still probably should have some sort of meeting for the community and for you and everybody else before as you say, just say here's what we need. We need to get this done for the fair. I will challenge this is this is the group that's the loudest. I would love to sit down and meet with you guys and let's try to figure something out. I'm open ears. Trust me. I'll I'll sit and listen and talk about it. Hard to get the public right now before, but I'd love to sit down with this group and see what we can figure out. Is your trailer shut down for winter? No, we can use it. Okay. We just turn the heat down just cuz it's expensive to run, but we can use the BFW upstairs in the back room anytime we want. We could set a meeting up with

this group and we can sit back there and visit. All right. I think as long as everybody comes with a positive attitude, let's do it, man. We're open. Then my one last thing, okay, then my my my choices right now is that we need to get together and I think that something can be worked out, but I Yeah, I can't approve it the way it is right now. We need to talk, you know, and I can respect that as long as we can't sit here and just let the city and us do this if you guys want to put public input, but everybody's got to be open to talking about it and understanding what the fair is and what we do need. Well, yeah, you got to be able to do so. That's all we're asking. We want to be able to still operate like we did in the past.

And there wasn't that many motorsports vents outside the trust me. Um, in the interest of yet another long meeting, um, what I what I'm hearing from commissioners and and from maybe a little bit from Ferland is we're not comfortable with the way it's written right now. We would like I'm comfortable. Okay. Okay. From the commissioners, we're not necessarily comfortable with the way it's written right now. and you're willing to to uh say we can sit down and kind of renegotiate. I don't know exactly how that would

Yeah. So I I if I may um so what I've heard is you have the meeting coming up next Monday. I think it's definitely at the point where that input would be very valuable in in having conversations about changes to the to the ordinance. So I think and I will say this for you guys. I am we can make something work this week too before Monday. It's just we already I'm just going to be honest. The BFW this Monday is going to be we got the back room and it sounds like the Matt Rats kind of got the middle of it. So it's going to be kind of a but I' I'd meet with Yeah. So

somebody this week if somebody wants to sit down and start having a discussion so the fair board will take more input from community members and bring that back to our conversations about drafting that in into an ordinance. But I would ask that maybe you could possibly attend. I will do my best if it's if you're available or if we get someone to No. And it's not it's not immediate. It's like we just got to get it in here before the new season begins for you. December, January, February, all of us could get together with you as a group or two or three people with you. Eventually, everybody gets together. I'd like to get it out so that the whole town's people knew that you were open today because I'm sure there are going to say, "Yeah, I'd like to do this."

Brian, I'll give you my phone number here, my cell phone before we leave tonight. You set up your group. Let's work a time and and let's try to get this together. Okay. So I would say then for certain to postpone the any vote on this ordinance tonight um to a future meeting or the next regular meeting and we can see based on that input um Izzy and I will have an understanding if the ordinance changes into a significant fashion or at least more than uh you know a few words then it would likely require again to be have go through the public hearing process. Not saying I know exactly when that would be based on this

we all excited everybody gets to talk again but no well hopefully when everybody comes back we can have a pretty decent agreement everybody I think if that's the if that's the circumstances then yeah you you've accomplished a lot in terms of that that input and if if that create those changes are what makes them comfortable then you know maybe the messaging at the next public hearing would be different from what we heard Okay. And nothing will be going on down there until Okay. And so it it's all right with you if we postpone this. Do we stay till the next meeting or a future date?

I think we should postpone it because then it'll go to council in a week from now and let's get sit down and actually have a conversation on this and see where we can get. I I feel if you guys are good with that and they're good with that. I I recommend just at least putting into the next regular meeting. If that's not ready by that time, we will communicate that with with the planning commission and make sure that we need a motion on that. Yes. Okay. So, if we're ready to have a motion to postpone uh consideration of this until the next planning commission meeting in December. Agreed. Is that a motion? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Motion by Douglas. Is there a second? Second

by Fox. Any further discussion on the motion to postpone until the December meeting? Yes. I I got one question. Sorry, just one more question. So, if this John, if this didn't pass, if whatever's in front of us didn't pass, is the fair allowed to operate in general? I mean, they're not zoned correctly. You know what I mean? Like nothing. They couldn't do a thing. No fair, no nothing. So, so if this if this failed council and failed us,

so we would we would likely be in a really deep long discussion over what activities have happened on that on those fairgrounds from prior to them being in the city limits to, you know, to what they've continually operated over that time that the city hasn't directly put them on notice that they can't do. So directly you put them on notice that they cannot have the micro sprint races in the racetrack and the outdoor storage. Those two items were specifically mentioned in the compliance letter that we sent out back in January.

Okay. So in terms of just another question because I think there might just for clarity um this is a staff or city initiated ordinance. So there isn't a 1599 applicant rule. you know, circumstances like that, like we've talked about with the um with the data center conversation. So, that's not of issue if this, you know, if if we do receive feedback and this is significantly changing and we're postponing it that again, city initiated. So, we have the the flexibility to kind of take that direction whatever is needed or whatever we get for feedback. This is not an application from the fairgrounds. This was based on the direction from the motion from the council back in March to um you know work on this process.

Thank you. Any other discussion before we vote? All in favor of postponing consideration of this until the December planning commission meeting say I. I oppose. Nay. So moved. Uh, and thank you for and and thanks to John and Izzy and our staff and your folks for coming up with this. It gives us a a starting point. Yeah. Thank you guys.

And thank you for everybody being for the most part very polite and and respectful of one another. I think that's wonderful for our community. We have one more point on our agenda. Information, no action update to construction deposit for new homes.

Sure. So, Commissioner, I just have a quick update. I'll give a little background. So, um when building permits come to the city, we have new home fees. So, it includes a construction deposit. Um so, $2,000, we would receive that deposit. Um and if those property owners get their lawn established, erosion control measures removed, then they get that $2,000 back um for new homes. Um recently we've seen a few issues um with with grading. So specifically in subdivisions like hardwood estates there is a specified grading plan that the builders has to have to follow. Um the city wants to put more of a enforcable procedure on that grading plan. Um so the change that we'll be making is on that construction deposit. We'll be able um to enforce the grading plan before we are able to give that construction deposit back. Um so along with enforcing the lawn establishment, we'd also enforce making sure that they adhere to the grading plan. So that's for subdivisions like hardwood states, um subdivisions that have that grading plan. So before I would give a deposit back to the builder, we would verify both of those things um to make sure that those subdivisions are um being built correctly because grading issues are kind of a domino effect. Um so it's really important to take care of those issues. So just adding that change onto the construction deposit really just keeps everything cohesive and we're able to actually enforce the grading plan rather just having a grading plan on the shelf. we can actually enforce it. Um so this was no action just inform the commission on um kind of what we're doing um in city hall. So

So now is that is look at this. So lawns have to be in place also. So like you have the grading done and the lawns have to be established. So currently the construction deposit you can only get it back if you establish your lawn. So you wouldn't get that back. So that be if they just laid sod that's good enough. um sod, establish seed, get rid of any bologgs, things like that. Um and that's verified by public works director before we would um give that deposit back. So it would be what we're already doing with that plus verifying that they adhere to the grading plan. A recent idea. Thank you.

It's pretty standard, isn't it? I mean, I think I I encountered that in Prior Lake when I built over there. Yeah. Yeah, I just at least for here, we just want to be able to enforce that on our end. Y um that is the end of our items. Uh any further comments from John, anybody else would like to say any words or just appreciate everybody voicing their opinions that did. That's the only way we can make these things work in our community. So keep coming. Motion to adjourn.

Second. I thought you made it. Okay. No. No. Douglas. All in favor? I I post name.