Scott County Delivers - Regular Meeting

Scott County, providing safe, healthy, and livable communities.

Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chair and commissioners. Yes, as Mr. Chair said, today's discussion for Scott Delivers is regarding the transformation homes, which is an innovative solution for justice-involved individuals who may require housing. We'll start with some introductions first. My name is Katie Molico with Quality Improvement. Lisa Brodsky, Public Health Director.

Julie Hanson, Property and Customer Service Manager.

Brad Davis, Director of Physical Development.

Tier Webster, Executive Director of Damascus Way.

Carrie Lorenz with Community Corrections. Chester Sweeney, Information Officer.

Molly Bruner, Community Corrections Director. Thank you all, and thank you for taking your time to be here today and for all of the work that goes into creating one of these packets as well. Molly, would you like to give us just a quick definition of transformation homes, just to level set for those that might be watching that aren't familiar with the term? Sure, absolutely.

So transformation homes started in 2021. We started to accept our first males, and you're going to hear a lot about the actual program here. But these are homes that are stood up for individuals that are homeless in Scott County and have ties to Scott County. And so when I started April 2019, one of the first things I heard loud and clear from the community, from staff, from clients was the lack of housing options, especially for those individuals that are justice involved. They have a hard time given their criminal history with passing background checks or having landlords perhaps take chances on providing the housing and so what you have is people that are really trying to get their basic needs met and having a hard time then really getting into addressing the things that are driving their criminal behavior. And so as you'll hear throughout this presentation, we now have two men's homes and one women's home and it is to provide a stabilization and services for individuals that are homeless and in our system. The unique differences you might hear of reentry homes or sober housing and those are types of homes like this. This does provide some very unique differences though to what traditionally you would see in reentry homes and sober houses. And that the uniqueness there is to use more recent data and research around what we should be doing in these homes and what opportunities we provide. And so that's why we changed the name from calling them reentry homes to transformation homes. The other key difference is you don't have to be coming out of jail or prison, although that is certainly an option. You could be homeless on probation as well. So it's really that you just have this need, are involved in the system, and we want to help individuals get that first step, the stabilization, the housing, a roof over their heads, food, and some of those basic needs met so people can really dig in and start working on other stuff.

Thank you. And we'll be asking questions, but of course, commissioners, as always, please feel free to jump in at any time.

Thank you. And thank you for the very interesting packet. I did have just kind of a general question beyond housing. What are some of the other challenges and barriers that you see residents typically struggling with?

Sure. Thank you. Mr. Chair and fellow commissioners and each of you. I think not just unique to this geography, but certainly with the demographic we're serving, what we're seeing is mental health needs are increasing and I'll say the realities of fentanyl and the accessibility to substance use is certainly a challenge for those that we're serving and what it's requiring of us in terms of a demand to be a lot more attentive to the experience of those that we're hiring. And so requiring us to really look for folks that have experience maybe as an LADC, things of that nature. Yeah, it's a challenge certainly here in Scott County and in the field at large. And yet I feel like with our partnership with Scott County and a local community that we're somewhat traversing in a healthy way around these realities.

I just have a question on the overall model before we get into the data. The model that we have here in Scott County where we've looked at single family homes in single family neighborhoods to stand up these transformational homes. And I'm just curious if this is a common model or if there are other models of this type of reentry or transformational type of housing. And then why I'm interested in that is I'm just wondering if some of the outcomes that we're gonna be talking about lend to that specific model of being in a single family home.

Yeah, I think, I mean, certainly I can't speak for all areas and where all the homes are. I think that that was very intentional, though, in this model. Some other research that's in this packet and helped us design what we were doing was from this Harvard research article out of 2019, so fairly recent analysis. And what that article and others would really talk about is making sure that you're having these homes in safe communities you want people to feel part of the community, right? Feel like you and I feel when we go home and not so much that you're in hotels, you're in industrial areas, you're in what people may not either feel or quite consider a traditional neighborhood. And so I do think that one of the many factors is that you rise the bar and see people do typically meet that. And what we've heard from some of our clients is is that feeling. I feel like a neighbor at home. I don't feel like, again, the labeling theory around a felon or a criminal or those sorts of things, and really start to transform even how they think about themselves and their identity, and I think that is huge to where homes are located in terms of just making that transformation.

Can I add maybe just a bit? I think when the RFP was released, I assume one thing that made Damascus Way attractive is because we do have homes in different areas of the state that are embedded in community. And often I think when folks are coming back from incarceration or homeless in community, we tend to think that they're just kind of arriving opposed to coming back home. Like this has been their geography and their home. And so, Damascus West thought it important to have homes so that it feels normal and it feels like a smooth transition. And I'll say even since being involved with this partnership, other communities have seen, yeah, this is the model that ought to be used. And so Damascus Way since has been able to have purchased a home in Golden Valley because this model is the model that we ought to emulate. And here of recent, we think that we're going to be able to fully execute this in St. Paul. There was an organization that has been so pleased with what they see happening here in Scott County that they also have said, Hey, we want to give you our asset, the home, because what you're doing in Scott County is the way that we ought to do a transition from, jail or homelessness. And so I think that we've learned that, yeah, the literature is right, that this is the model that ought to be kind of emulated in communities.

You spoke a little bit about the rising need for mental health services. Can you tell us a little bit more about some of the other programs that are offered through a transformation home?

Yeah, yeah. And so We're really committed to the idea of peer recovery services, and so we've been able to hire staff with lived experience and provide a peer recovery sort of network for those that we're serving. Through our partnership beyond Community Corrections, we've been able to upstand fathers program and so destiny dad's a dad's program because again the literature says that fathers are less likely to reoffend when they have meaningful relationships with their children or kiddos and children are less likely to be in this system and so it's beyond our homes but it includes being executed through our homes and accessible to those we serve both in the jail and in the homes. We also have launched a program specifically for children that are impacted by this system. And so dads feel better when they know that, and families feel better when they know that their children are being served. And then we've got community partnerships where community is coming in and building mentor relationships, having lunches and dinners and breakfasts together with those that we serve. We've got a program called Kynos that isn't totally operating as much as it used to be, but Kynos was a wood shop where guys can kind of create wood products with their family, kids, one another, and we hope to be able to kind of relaunch that as well. So those are some of the things that we've been doing with the programming that we have through the transformational homes.

In addition to that, Carrie, do you mind talking about some of the integration with county resources?

Sure, yeah, so clients are able to access our mental health center for mental health services. We have multiple providers within the county that do chemical dependency treatment services, and so the probation officers work very closely with tier staff to come up with an individual plan for that client, and then whatever those needs or areas are, then we're working together to kind of plan around those needs and make sure that we're getting the resources, because some of that stuff is not provided in the home. Again, we're referring out for that, so.

Yeah, I think that's good and sometimes I assume because I've been here a few times and I shouldn't assume that folks know in their transformation plan or individual service plan. We're focusing on three key areas. We're looking at housing, yes, while you're here, and yet how do we build a healthy housing transition plan because you're not going to be here forever, right? The other thing is getting folks employed that are employable relatively quickly and get them thinking about a career pathway. And then as I explained previously, how do we wrap around what you've identified as healthy community connections, right? So try to take a person-centered approach in the work.

Just a quick follow-up, Carrie. How many services are provided inside the home, and how many are outside the home, and then is transportation become a barrier to get clients outside the home?

Sure, so some of the stuff Tierra talked about is offered inside the home, and the stuff that we refer out for would be more the formal services as far as mental health services, the chemical dependency services, and then also you had mentioned just the employment stuff. We have clients that'll come to the county, they'll go down to the Workforce Center, we'll work with staff down there, whether it's resume building, we've had some opportunities for them to get different licensing for free, there was a boiler's license, and can't remember.

Forklift.

Forklift, and then I think also there was a paramedic too, so depending on their background, they may be able to qualify for that. As far as transportation, each of the houses does have a car available to use, but we do find that we do have clients that do actually have licenses and their own vehicles at the house. And as long as they're insured, they're able to keep them there. And because they build community within the house, a lot of those clients will help other clients. They've helped them get jobs. They'll drive them back and forth to work. So either Damascus staff or potentially other clients in the house. As far as like public transportation, I don't know that they've utilized that a ton, but that would be an option as well.

Yeah, we try to help them to identify how to use public transportation. They do have access to, we do have a vehicle and they have access to that. And yet we want them thinking about after you leave here. So we are talking about that. I think it's good for the record when we talk about substance use services outside of the home. We don't provide those services inside the home. And I think it's good for us to hear that and that it's on public record because I think there's a misinterpretation at times what the transformation home is. Though folks are expected to be sober and have a substance use plan if addiction's in their background, that's not what we are. And I just think it's important for folks to know that and hear that because there's been at times a misunderstanding on what we provide in the home. We're not a substance use home, a sober home in the sense of providing those services.

But clients are expected to be sober in the home, and it's a sober environment.

And clients are expected to be sober in the home, yep.

I have a question about the data on page 15. And I did read through some of the literature that you had included in the packet, the links, and I noticed that roughly, if you do nothing, roughly in two years, about 40 to 50% of individuals will reoffend. Looking at the data on page 15, if I'm interpreting it correctly, it appears that participants, even if they leave the program, they still may be experiencing some positive outcomes. And I'm wondering if you've analyzed whether there's some kind of dose-response relationship, whether the length of stay, I mean, it looks like length of stay improves outcomes, but even, I'm not sure how many of these individuals, like how long they stayed after departure, but there is some kind of benefit. And has there been any analysis of what that magic number is to make an impact? Because these are pretty compelling numbers. Even after a year, it's, I mean, they're doing really well, and even after two years, it's still better than if we do nothing. So can you maybe speak a little bit to that?

Sure. Yeah, one of the links or subsequent documentation in this packet is an outside evaluator that we hired to do some of that analysis related to, like, so yes, those that are successful, those that depart, And then what does a comparison group look like that's on probation, right? That's homeless on probation. And really that comparison group demographically was very close to the folks that we have in the homes. And you're right, the outcomes, in fact, I've said this at a workshop, but I think it's important that you know the evaluators actually had us come back like three different times because they didn't think this was possible to have as good of outcomes as we're seeing. And when you look at like the two year for those that are on probation and not having been part of this program, they're at a 50% success rate in comparison. So in terms of the exact amount of days and like when that tipping point is, that's not necessarily, it's a great question that I think we should put in a future analysis. We don't have that particular answer. We do have the average length of stay, of course, in here. And we have the fact that I do think in research and in dosage, you are getting some treatment effect with that, right? So there's something happening, hopefully, and that's what we're seeing in the numbers. Even if you don't depart with a successful plan as defined in here, you still have done some of that work. You've met, you know, Damascus Way. You've, you know, again, been in a community that's, you know, very pro-social and all the things that you're benefiting from. So I do think that's what you're seeing here, but not exactly like what that threshold in days would be.

On page 11, there's a chart that talks about positive life factors before and after residency. Chessa, as someone who supervises individuals in the homes, I was wondering if you could tell me why these factors are important or what you see as maybe clients gain some more of these.

Yeah, well, I just had an individual who left the home successfully, and he had stable housing. He was employed, working on the driver's license, still in the vehicle ownership. But those two factors were apparent to him getting where he is at in his life now. Especially being employed, that was the main factor into getting that stable housing. So just watching that play out in his life has led him to where he is now.

How long, have you been able to determine how long you're gonna be able to track the clients that have successfully left the program so you get a longer probation?

Well, we certainly can run recidivism checks, right, through, so no matter where you are in the state, it's not just Scott County, this is statewide data. And so there's ways that we can look at that. If they're successfully off of probation and no longer under supervision, we don't necessarily have a mechanism where we are, and that's for a good reason too. Like you live your life, you're doing well, like go forth and we don't want, you know, that's probably the last thing they want is connection with us because they're doing really well off of probation or supervised release. And so, yes, we don't have that necessarily unless we did some surveys, which we certainly could voluntarily and see if we could get some responses, but we have not gotten to that point yet.

I was wondering if we could go to page 16. So this chart speaks to comparing to the jail per diem. Can we talk about how that's related? And I did notice on page 27, it does reference the per diem costs as well. But just wondering if we could kind of walk through the meaning of the two of those things together.

Julie, just to make sure I'm on that. So I have page 16 as the annual income, and then are you looking at the jailbed days that was in that outside evaluation? Oh, I'm sorry, yes. Okay, so just making sure I'm tracking the data here. All right, I'm sorry that I was looking for this while you were asking the question. Would you?

Oh, absolutely, no problem. I was just talking about it. It speaks to, under the why does this matter, the cost per participant has been compared to the jail per diem. Just because it's on two separate slides with that, with the jail per diem on page 27, I wondered if we could talk a little bit more about how that's related.

Sure, absolutely. So essentially, what we're doing here, and although we can't speak exactly, so if somebody in the room wants to speak to the jail per diem, how it's actually calculated, but we did receive this per diem from the jail on what it was per year. And essentially, you're looking at how many people are you serving, right? How much money does it cost to run the program? And how many people are successful, et cetera, right? And so one of the things that we're trying to showcase here is that, yes, we do have... you know, it's less than the jail per diem, so that's good. But we're seeing a lot of success, right, coming out of that. And so the whole goal is obviously when you're off of probation but working, then you're paying taxes or you're paying, you know, you're doing all the things that we would hope any of us would be doing. And so we're investing money differently and yes, expensive upfront, but if we're seeing the kind of results we are, then they're not coming back to jail. And some of the other data that's in this evaluation also shows how much time People were spending in incarceration, both prison and jail, prior to being in one of these homes and then after, which is substantially less. And so we're not paying those extra criminal justice costs. And that's just the jail costs, right? That's not when you commit a new offense and you have all of the court costs and you have law enforcement costs, right? This is just a snapshot to just say if the person is housed in jail and here, what does that look like? And then looking at the results and seeing that the positive, that it's worth the investment, right? The benefits outweigh the cost.

Can you talk through the levy impact of this program? I know there's a lot of acronyms, so if you'd take a moment just to kind of pull that picture together for people.

Yes. So this program started, and I do want to say it actually started with using homes that we already owned. due to, I have to get the terminology right and all the transportation stuff, Brad, because it's like a whole new world of acronyms.

I think it was ARPA.

Well, ARPA was the money that was used to run these homes, but I do know that the Shakopee home was for right-of-way, like some of these homes were purchased for right-of-way, but the projects weren't coming up to be done anytime soon, so this was a way that we could use the homes while some of those projects were not scheduled yet, So, and then we used ARPA dollars, uh, to start running these homes. The other thing we did receive in the beginning for five years was a grant from the department of corrections. And so we were able to utilize some state money as well. Um, and we did the RFP and then went, you know, came into a contractual partnership with Damascus way. And so, uh, we have not had a levy impact from that perspective. We then now are moving into 2027 using, uh, Laha dollars. And so that will also be a state. Yep, yep. And so then we'll be using that moving forward as well. But from a county perspective, it really did take a lot of our departments coming together to stand up this really innovative project. And I think that it's just been a great thing. Even some of the cars were donated after they were coming off of our fleet. So instead of auctioning them, I understand, we were able to donate them one to each home. so we could help with the transportation issues that we may see with some of our clients. So it's really been a creative and innovative way to pull all of our different departments together to do this work.

Well, and it's interesting to hear, as Tahir mentioned earlier, that other areas are kind of watching this model, because it sounds like, was something like this done in the state of Minnesota before in this capacity?

Not that I'm aware of, not in this way, no.

I don't know if you know, not that I'm aware of either. And when we think about, uh, fiscal responsibility, we're having discussions about, uh, potentially rearranging the homes where, uh, women may move to prior lake and, and, and men move to the shock, be home here. and it may not make a whole lot of sense here, the why of that, uh, but there is going to be a positive for you all, a positive fiscal impact of that somewhere in the neighborhood of you probably save somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 or $70,000 as we look at realigning staff and things of that nature. And so I think you all can be pleased with, um, things may look different from a financial perspective as well as we move forward.

Yeah. I think that's important to add to as well. Um, We are not decreasing staffing at the Pyre Lake home as a result of this. The women's home is on a federal grant and we have the full staffing as you see it in the men's homes for the women's homes, so that would move out. What we don't, there wasn't really the design to have two fully staffed homes as they are with the men's home. We are able to do, I think, a lot more with the staff that we have. And I don't know if you want to speak to even just the, um, you know, the retention or trying to recruit when you have a location.

I think so. The ideal is folks are in the homes in there and they're getting back to life, right? They're working, they're recreating relationships with family and friends, things of that nature. And they're not just in the home 24 hours a day, right? And so as you're recruiting staff that feel a call to this human service work, what we found in time is that sometimes they're just in staff or just in the home waiting for Billy Bob, if you will, to come home, right? And so they start looking for other ways to kind of execute their call. in real layman language, they get somewhat bored just sitting there. And so what we believe is as we kind of realign staffing in these men home, that they'll be able to do deep, well, decrease the number of staff, but still meet a number of staff where you all feel comfortable with, and we do from a best practice lens, and they'll be able to be more deeply involved with the work that they're doing, direct service that they're doing. I didn't say this earlier, but what we've also been able to do in our relationship over these last five years is we've added a senior director of compliance. So he's doing a quarterly audit on the work we're doing. And we've increased our contract with our third party vendor, our evaluations and grant writing director as well. And so when we look at all that's going on in our world with fraud and things of that nature, We're relatively confident that we're doing some creative things to ensure that we're not named among those. And then, of course, we have an annual audit outside that happens as well.

I just want to return back to the success that's been evident. And you mentioned the evaluators really pointed out the success the program has had so far. And that certainly shows up in a lot of this data. But how do you answer maybe a skeptic that would say it your population's kind of predisposed. They volunteered to be part of this program. They wanted to move into these houses. Presumably they were looking for some transformation and therefore you're gonna have a higher percentage of positive outcomes because they've kind of self-selected being in this program. So have you dealt with that kind of question and thought about how you talk through that?

I'd be curious what my colleagues say, but certainly in any form of transformation, will is a part of it, right? There has to be a desire for change. And I think that's a beauty of the work that we do. We've got individuals that aren't being mandated. They're saying, you know what? I've got some forward momentum, and I want to continue that. And this just becomes a great partnership. Help foster that and so I guess the skeptic would that would say well. They already want I shouldn't put a tone to it Well, they already want change um so yeah They're more likely to change short and yet the literature says that even for those that want change if they don't have the vehicle for change The likelihood decreases significantly.

I don't know what my colleagues would say, but that's kind of what a response I would have right well Yeah, you've got clients that have that struggle with mental health issues chemical dependency issues as life stressors come, some of those clients lack the skills to be able to deal with some of that stuff. So that's why you need that supportive environment, the staff there, the services there that they can help teach the skills, have them build their recovery capital, get those informal supports in place. So the whole goal is then when they transition out of the home, when they don't have those formal supports in place, they have that informal network that they can lean on. Yes, that drive and that will is there, but they're still going to face struggles.

I would say there's a few stories, so please, if you can shed any color to any of these. I know that participants have also said that they didn't want to go to these homes, and I will say that some have been to reentry homes that are unlike ours and have a pretty negative expectation of where these houses would be located, the condition of the homes, who's in the area or the neighborhood, right? Sometimes they are in higher crime neighborhoods and people just don't want to do it if they're not being forced to do it. That have gone, oftentimes I believe we say, just come take a look at it. We're not going to force you to stay. Part of it is voluntary. So if you don't want to stay after you get a tour, then you don't have to. And I don't know if we've ever had anybody after they said, I don't want any part of this that went over to one of the homes and then didn't stay.

Right.

So, I mean, so motivation wasn't there even to begin with, but I think seeing that this is much different does matter and kind of shifts people at least a little bit right out of the gate, so.

Do we have time for one more? Mm-hmm, for sure. I was just looking at the chart on page 20, the services while in the transformation house, and you talked a little bit about this already to you. but I was struck by, although not surprised, the number of individuals that have experienced significant trauma. And I'm wondering what trauma-informed approaches are being used to support, and you talked about what was supporting them, but is there any trauma-informed approaches to engage their families so that cycle of trauma is... being interrupted and their children are less likely to experience ACEs, adverse childhood experiences.

That's a good question. I think one of the couple of ways we do that is what I attempted to share earlier through a fatherhood program and through a youth and family service program, Destiny Way. There's some also some soft skills that are in place. that we think about. So we've been able to, in our adding capacity, be intentional about our annual training plan to staff. And so de-escalation skills is a way that we do that. How do we use power? Some things that we may not think about, voice tones, standing over an individual, right? How do we use social worker by trade? How do we use questions to empower those that we serve? And so those are soft skills. And then also, when we're working with the individual in the home, we're trying to build a perspective or a goal, rather, around how do we engage your family and how do we kind of counter? I mean, our mission is how do we counter the multigenerational impact of incarceration and substance use? And so we're thinking about that, I would say often, I want to say always, but we're thinking about that often when we're working with the individuals. And those are some real practical ways we do that. And then again, I can't minimize the power and impact of community relationships, too, that are thinking like we think around family system work, ACEs and things of that nature.

I have a question on this slide. What's the time frame of this slide? Is it 25, part of 26? It's from the beginning of the program?

Yes, this is from the study that was done, which includes, it's on one of these. I apologize, do you know what the time is? I can get that for you. I think it's in the full, As of February 2025, 32 clients had exited the program. So it was from the day that we started, which was in 2021 through February 2025.

Okay, thank you.

That makes me just kind of think about successful. So on page eight, there's a chart that talks about the current status of residents. And it mentions successful and departure. And I'm wondering if you could kind of explain those terms to me. And Chessa, maybe if you could tell me from your perspective as someone who's supervising people, like what you're seeing with clients who are successful at the house, what that means, and the people who are departing, what that means.

Yeah, so successful would be going to a plan, so a housing, a treatment center, family's house, something like that. Departure would be, so... removing themselves, somebody who is unable to follow the rules there or who is choosing not to be sober, that could be a departure.

Anecdotally, what do you kind of see What do you kind of see as outcomes for those people? Like the people who are successful, do they end up having to come back to the homes or is this something that they're now stable and we see them move on or what does that look like?

I actually see stability in moving on. I have not seen anyone come back to the home. Once they transition successfully, they tend to remain that way.

I'd say the only exception to that would be potentially like could be someone that is going to a treatment bed. And then, so they come to the house to have a stable spot to be so they're in a good space for that treatment bed. And so then once they do treatment and do all the programming, after they're done with the actual treatment programming, they may transition back to the transformation house if it's deemed an appropriate spot for them.

Thank you. Can I share this? So as you see, we've got a short-term and a long-term track, right? And short-term could be just that, like they're waiting for a bed or they've got another opportunity in place. And then there's a longer-term track. staff that was supposed to be here today, but she's not feeling well. I want to read what she said. There was a resident that was there 18 months in our program, so longer term, non-traditional, right? Demonstrated extraordinary personal and professional growth. During his time with us, he successfully graduated from his probation offender program, earning a certificate of completion that reflected his commitment to the accountability and positive change. Building on that foundation, he pursued his passion for the culinary arts by successfully completing his culinary arts degree or certificate. He secured gainful employment with a local food service employer where he was given the opportunity to work at a second location that he could meet with the extension program requirements. Beyond his education and career achievements, he embraced a journey of holistic transformation by actively participating in a local faith community alongside program staff where he chose to be baptized. He also developed essential financial management skills, learning to budget and be responsible and prepare for long-term independence. And then I'll also share that though coming back to the home in terms of recidivism hasn't necessarily been our narrative, which I think we all can applaud. We had a nontraditional situation last night where we don't have a formal alumni program, but someone that graduated from the program has been so connected that he came back last night and had dinner with the staff and the residents that were there. Those are things that we don't always quantify through this sort of stuff, but it's stuff that we love to be able to share and say together we're seeing some pretty amazing impact.

I'd like to ask a question. It's not necessarily a data graph, but just neighborhood impacts, I guess I'll characterize it. And I just want to know kind of some lessons learned or some ways that you think have been effective in just managing the perception of these homes in the neighborhoods and the neighbors? Anything you can just share, just lessons learned or things you want to make sure you do for the next home?

Yeah, I mean, I think that we have learned a lot through every community and every home that we've worked through. I think that we learned that as much as possible, early education and being able to explain what these homes are and how people are placed there, right? Just all of the many questions that you would have if it were in your neighborhood, I think is really important. In the Prior Lake area, we did have a community team of people that was five citizens and they live within 1,500 feet, I believe, of the home. And we initially met a lot more often in the beginning and up until recently, The community members have said that they believe just meeting annually. So we'll meet entirely annually to review data and answer questions with the open invitation that we can meet anytime, um, has been a great way to have conversations. And I know many of them have talked about going back then into the neighborhoods to like, what do we talk about? What did we learn? Um, I know prior, like put meeting minutes out, um, on what we did as well. We also engaged Savage this last time as well. We had a community meeting as well to, again, answer questions and explain the program. We're engaged with law enforcement. And yeah, so I think all of those things are just, and in Shakopee too. I mean, I know that we've gone to coffee with a neighbor from the Shakopee home as an example, just had more questions and just constantly keeping ourselves open to dialogue about the program and people and and that people know who to reach out to if there's questions or concerns, right? They have my number, they have any of our numbers here at the table, has been a huge part of it as well.

Another interesting It was an off the record conversation. I think many of us sit in this room. We've got someone in our family that's been impacted by incarceration or substance use and sometimes we don't think about it in the neighborhoods that are represented here where the homes are, but we've had a couple occasions where community members have come to us and share that they don't want it public, but they've got a loved one that's facing a criminal charge or a spouse in a scenario where a spouse was, and to have something like our program in the community where they can feel safe enough to call and ask questions regarding these sort of things has been a powerful thing. And so, again, these are things that we don't often know about, but it's the work that's happening behind the scenes.

Can I speak to that? I actually My brother was just as involved, addicted to substances. And the narrative and the tone these days versus the 1980s, I hope you're all very proud of the work that you do. Thank you for sharing that. Bless you.

And as an organization, I'll say, We couldn't continue this work without partnerships like this. The reality is the narrative and tone has changed, and yet obviously everyone in the community isn't pleased with this sort of work. And so when we think about secondary stress on staff and compassion fatigue, things of that nature, I just want to thank the commissioners and this broader community for supporting Damascus Way. We've gone through some significant changes this year. We were a smaller organization five years ago, and we've lost some key leaders in this last year, some to unexpected death and others to transition. And I believe that if it wasn't for the commitment of a community like this, we wouldn't be able to even upstand when some of these tones are coming our way that aren't so positive. And so thank you for your leadership and for the support of this.

Thank you, Tier. That's actually a perfect segue to one of my final questions for you, is just why this program? Every time we choose something, we're also not choosing other things. So using your data, using outcomes that you've seen, just why is this the program?

I'm sorry, I just really want a good answer, because it's so, I think that for me, I've been doing this work now 26 years, over 26 years. And I think it just goes back to really meeting people where they're at and really looking at people again with that hope, right? That their future, the end of their story, like if you're writing your book or you're writing a movie, here's the beginning, the middle, or whatever has happened in your life and you have choices now. And that we have hopefully, and it looks like it through all of the data that we've just now shared, that we now are creating space for people to see an ending that isn't maybe what they thought before. And I think having the right, again, all the different departments, the community people, the neighborhoods, the board, all of us being able to tell people you have choice and you have the ability to change your life and people are doing it is, to me, it's always hard to see what you didn't happen, right? But what we know when we look at individuals, again, with some of the paths that they have are, again, coming out of prison and knowing sometimes the likelihood of recidivism can be really high and it's not happening. All the victims that aren't out there and all of the, it's not just the cost, right? It's like the humans and the second generation or third generation of individuals who have family members that are healthy and supportive to me is priceless, really.

Yeah, thank you. And for me, not only why this program, but why do we need to be intentional about choosing the right provider? And I pray that that continues to be us. For us, we've been able to grow in our infrastructure and capacity. We've been able to really polish a mission that's not just focusing on the individual that's in front of us, but also going upstream and taking a multi-generational approach. And so as we think about the dollars that we're investing, I think we're also investing in, we talked earlier about adverse childhood experiences. We're investing in the children that will follow and hopefully follow this new trajectory. And so I think one reason why we invest these dollars and we'll get a return on our investment on generations to come. And my prayer is that Damascus Way can continue to be that service provider. And if not, that you get the best one that's considered of even the generations to follow.

Thank you. Any final questions? Thank you very much. I'll turn it back to Mr. Chair and the commissioners.

All right. Questions, comments from the board? Go ahead.

Yeah, that was a good question. You know, this is always one of those things where resources are limited, right? We have limited resources. And so how do we best invest in... hope for transformation so that we're breaking chains, breaking these generational chains. And we learned a lot, right? I mean, this is a very interesting situation, and here we are. I was hoping the chief would be here. We have a routine emergency there. But just to hear from his perspective on that particular transformation house. But this is one of those where everything collides, the human condition, human lives, finances, and how does that best roll out so you know because we always have to look at this does the data and it's always hard to quantify everything right but does the data point to change lives because they do believe transformation homes not just because of the name but they're it's very different it's more life on life than other options that are cattle call you know come on in yep check the box we check the boxes in out in out where this is the one individual was 18 months. It's different runways for everybody. Whatever's gonna give them the best opportunity for success, and yet we still have to look at the numbers, which we do. Which we do, we don't go into this blindly, but it does feel like there's good things happening, there's transformation happening. And I'm a big believer that we can really bring about better outcomes for people and at a lower cost. I think both are possible. So it's just one of these interesting, fun little, not experiments, but things that we believe in and that we always have to keep an eye on the data. I'm just pointing to the screen. But the biggest thing is our lives being transformed. Our lives changing. Not only this generation, but the next. Because I do believe the work that's done here does echo into the next generation and beyond. So that we're not seeing them in other areas. That's the goal, changing lives. Like not just the here and now, but deep. And they have to have a willingness to do that, right? They have that desire. But also having an environment, which I believe that this provides having an environment for that desire to really take root in people's lives. So as always, fun stuff.

Thanks for the hard work. So, Commissioner, thank you. It's a comment, but it's provoking a response. And I shared earlier that we're looking at our numbers and how can we be responsible to you all, and are there areas that we can make reductions? And one thing I tried to do is just share that we think we might be able to reduce the expense by, and I say don't quote me, but it's public, 60 to 70 grand. That said, I think it's also worth thinking collectively, yes, And we're having to, as a team and a board, ask the question, can we continue to do this work? Because what it costs for us to do the work, I think I've shared that our insurance expense has gone up by over 100%. And because of what's happening in our world, fraud and different movements, things of that nature, it's not as easy for an organization that's our size to get insurance. And so there again, I think just being thoughtful You've got a partner who's looking at how do we reduce expense to be fiscally responsible and also saying it's costing us a lot more to do the work too. And so what I'm trying to convey is we hear you. We too as an organization are concerned about the impact this is having on our community and tax dollars and yet also saying let's also be mindful that it is costing us a lot more to do the work too.

All right, well thank you for your good work and you are having impact, lives are being transformed and we're very thankful for that, thankful for your commitment to this work. It's an honor.