Planning Board - Regular Meeting

So, this is the municipal research complex committee on Thursday, April 23rd at 6 PM. Um, on the agenda tonight, um, we just have to, uh, vote on the minutes from our March meeting, which was sent around to the group, uh, about three weeks ago. Yeah, I didn't see any problem with it. I make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Uh all in favor?

I I zero opposed. No abstensions. Um so the second item was on the update from the pre-esigned services from Turner Group. So Doug was able to revise his letter proposal um reflecting our comments from our March meeting. The changes there was the incorporated the survey work into the scope um as opposed to being external to that brought the new fee to get to a design build package uh of $146,650.

That's the but it just says items not included the boundary survey. He struck he struck it right. It's now in this part. It's previously was excluded. Oh, okay. So, it's now in it. We asked him to include it for Okay. No extra. So, if you see it No, it is. It added it in and added the cost. Oh, okay. Cuz I was That was one of my questions. Are we doing our own engineer? And where's the money coming from? No, he we asked him to put it back in it because he didn't have it. Um and then he struck the part where it was assuming that it was because he had sent the original proposal prior to town meeting. Okay.

Um so otherwise the scope would remain the same. They would by December of 2026 we'd have a package suitable for bidding. So we'd have a hard number for the design and build of the police department. What he gave to me external to that was some feedback asked because we had a lot of discussion last month about pursuing the dot access permit for 125 which is its own kind of thing regardless of the building. What he told me is that um if we wanted to move that forward because that would go further than the design of the building. It would mean he's he recommended the town directly contract with the civil engineer just for the access design and permitting which would be um assuming there was no alteration of terrain permit which it sounds like that was the kind of the the general thought it would cost an additional $95,000 to go through the DOT process.

That's insane. So that's that's the full access taking it all the way. So, we have a DOT permit before we go to build 95,000. That's just to get the DOT permit. All the engineering and planning stuff to get access. I mean, engineering that's probably mostly engineering costs and official Yeah. I don't I don't know what I don't know what DOT charges for like reviewing and stuff like that, but there's no traffic study. That's basically to take the 125 access to the point where it's permittable by DOT, which would building another

that that seems high to me. 95 grand in the scheme of things. And it's because he's they're doing all the sites civil for the axis. They have to design how they're okay. I can do that with the coloring book. No, but it's you got to meet all the state standards. So, I don't the number doesn't strike me as odd, but if that's what it takes to fully get a DOT access permit for the facility, is there another way? Is there another avenue that we can look at to maybe cut that cost a little bit?

We could defer it to later and put it on the contractor or we just ignore that and put a pin in that for later and we just do an internal road like we talked about 25. Well, I think that would be a waste of money as well, but you're going to spend the amount to construct the alternate road might end up being the same. You still a parallel road makes no sense to me. No, no, it doesn't. Um, other straight in and out or So, we'd either have the PD off by itself and you could access it through the parking lot as which we already agreed was not the best. You want your own access, but I just Boy, I I can't believe

put another million dollar $5,000 to to just tell us how to do it. Yeah. Not even to put in. I know. Well, that I mean I don't How much do like engineering plans cost? Like this is the thing. I don't I don't know. I mean it we can get more. We don't have a proposal so we don't know all the he said he got a planning budget from his civil engine say like if we need an access permit how much would we be better off doing an RFP just for that one piece? separate from Turner Group to Jim's point to see if there you could always you could part you could there's nothing that we don't have anything like right now it just isn't in Doug's scope to do anything

well I think we have some correct me if I'm wrong I think we have a little bit of time because I mean we're going to be eventually building a building and it's not going to be something that happens overnight I I say let's do our due diligence and try let's put a pin in try and get some like you said um Lety and RFB and and and see if we can get some other I mean it's possible that we're going to put it out to bid and that will be it is possible but it could also be 50 grand.

Yeah, I have no idea. I mean, I think the other thing we could do is we still have to do a level of sight civil work for the building itself and we can ask that we just try and have a meeting with DOT to find out how viable it is before we go spend. It's a good idea. I would think they'd be willing to meet with the town and kind of be like, here's our concept. We want to put something here. It's a good idea. Do you anticipate I remember there was something about the existing access. Do we anticipate if we bring it up, could that cause more problems? It's going to come up anyway. Yeah. I Yeah.

I think I'd rather have like an informal conversation with DOT and say this is what we're looking at doing. Is does this is it worth us putting it in a permit application or are we just barking up the tree and it's just going to be three years and the building's going to be ready? We're going to have to I guess I don't want to be in a world where they're like, "No, we don't want to do that." And by the way, the driveway that you have been using is never was never approved. So like I don't want to What What driveway was never approved? The driveway. The wreck driveway.

There's some question as to whether that ever was like an appropriate I don't know how we'd ever find that out either, but somebody did bring that comment. inevitably. I mean, we'd have to permit that. So, I guess the question is, is it better to do both of them at once or work with them to figure out what access would I wouldn't wake the sleeping bear? I would just Yeah, I wouldn't say if you know, let's just focus on this. If they bring it up, then we have to address it. But yeah, if not, let let it go. We've been using it for how many years? Yes. My father used to say, "Don't ask the question unless you're prepared for the wrong answer." So, yeah,

but they they brought it up, right, when Doug had reached out about this new access because then because we know we have enough frontage. Yes, we meet that requirement, but somebody brought up the state brought up like, well, we don't have a record of having an approved access, right? I think we would try and do like what Jim's saying and say, this is for a new facility on 125. we get a new curve and keep in mind that I mean there are benefits to this for the DOT. So absolutely we're pulling

we're pulling traffic you know highspeed traffic off of um you know residential roads and and all that for the PD and what so the state has to have parameters right yeah I think I mean I think that's the part of why the permitting takes a process because you have to you have to meet their standards to say that this is a safe access into and egress off the property, right? And they could come back and go, I would rather hear from them. Yes, it's viable, but here's the scope and then we can get that price. If we know exactly what we're being asked because if they came back and said, you need a traffic's no, right?

Then you'd be like, now maybe the state has traffic. Well, they say that we need a turn lane and widen the road, right? And then you don't you're not doing the whole set's preferences. They say, "Yeah, we want a right hand turn headed south or we want turning center. We're going to widen the intersection. Yeah, I guess it's better to involve them now so that we don't go off thinking we know what it is. The other fallback we could

wor, you know, the preliminary Like unfortunately, but if we knew in three years we get an access permit. We designed the building sited accommodate that. It just comes later. I think we can. Yeah. I think it I mean they might be willing to work with us and there might be I mean I feel like that's something that we also Exactly. and be like, "Hey, we really need to get help with this." Because unfortunately, 40 years ago, the access wasn't approved whenever we're done. I mean, 40 years ago, they probably were just like, "This looks like a good spot. Here's a driveway."

I don't It's not like the safest chase. So, I guess what we're looking for is we need to recommend to the select board to proceed with Turner to get them signed up to do the pre-esign. I we can then talk to Doug to be like, we're going to take First By through the town, talk to DOT to kind of put it to ground as to whether how feasible it is and what are they going to ask of us so that we could potentially refine the scope either their designer or an RFP for somebody else.

But either way, the then the recommendation would come from here to the select for the select board's the one that makes a decision. Yeah. So right now the only thing we'd have to recommend to them is to sign up Turner to get started project side 125 access till we get some clarity. I need to make a motion on this. Can we talk about this before We can discuss the proposals. I just had a couple questions and you answered one of them already. Um, what was the whole the geotech thing? I didn't know we were considering that at all. It says it twice on here. Uh, you got to do it for the foundation.

Oh, you have to do it. Okay. So, that's not that's not geo. I was thinking geothermal. That's what Oh, no. What are the soils? They support this kind of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just said the wrong terminology. I I was thinking so they can just basically design the footings. Okay. And why is on B of that same page 205? Why does it number three? Because he added it. Oh, he added it. So this anything in bold is that change from what he sent to us in March. Okay. And you said that the 12,000 for the is included in the 146 number. Yes, he's added it in.

Okay. Okay. There had been discussion before we asked for his proposal that we might try and do survey on our own. Right. Right. I remember that. Yeah. Then we told him based on the discussion last month that we'd rather just have him cover those costs than trying to find a local survey. Okay. And then I think one other Oh, there are two other things. One is they're not providing like he has the the data sheet for an office. They provided computers or and all that stuff, right? They could be. It depends on what we have. These are examples for what?

No, I get that. I get that. But furnishings sometimes are done like contractor provides a base level or sometimes the owner but for things like computers for a police building you need I think some people want like a turnkey some it depends on that's to be defined because they will go get written into the document if that contractor is coming and let's say you want tables chairs but it hardware is by furnished by the town then that would just get clarified Okay. I wasn't sure if that was we I think we get to pick that when we get to that step.

Okay. And I noticed that they don't have the expert testimony put in exactly the way they had before, which I freaked out about the price. They just have it one one and a half times for the extra testimony. But say one and a half times what? And the 15% service charge and reimburseable expenses and outside is that like that's your it's for if you have sub consultants or like administrative basically. Yeah. Basically your cost to carry others or if you have expenses that's

Yeah. And then the rest of this is pretty standard stuff, right? It should be consistent with what they got hired with. Yeah. He's pretty thorough. It seems to me I don't know. Do you find him pretty that seems pretty thorough to me runs? Yeah. So, any other questions? All right. So, we need a motion. Oh, one other It's not a It's not on this. What's What do we have in that account? Account and money account. 250 or something. 249 or something like that. They put the 125 in, right? and it had almost the same in there. No, because there was a there was

we weren't sure if there was other things that were going to come out. I think the only question Doug was going to look into seeing if he had any outstanding invoices which he said he probably would have got told about but in addition so it's possible that the town has paid him but the money hasn't come because the trustees of the trust funds me quarterly or something I don't remember there was some I think it was like 30 grand or something yeah there's a lag between Um, I wrote it down somewhere. Yeah. Well, I think it was just shy of it was going to bring it was going to it was going to pretty close to 250.

It was going to bring us to around 250. So, if even if there was a delta like just because the account hadn't caught up with the payments out that we could cover the 145. Is this still um is that still the 30%? Y that gets us the package that is biddable for design which is what we want exactly what that gets us the hard number for next we'll know pricing from and then if we end up needing or wanting if if the board wanted to spend more on this driveway stuff there's technically there is some money in there that could be used

if so I'll make a motion to accept this moving forward pushing it through to the select board um with the um understanding that we're going to um look into the um DOT stuff and um do our due diligence on that before we agree to So who's looking into the due diligence select order or I mean I think well let's vote on moving this first. So you're moving the contract proposal to select board for their Yes. use. So second. So all in favor of

moving the proposal April 6th to the select board. I I All oppose. No extensions. All right. So, as far as DOT due due diligence, I don't know if Wayne would have any thoughts just because I don't know has any frequent interactions with them just with the roads they're responsible for in town since honestly they maintain a lot of our pavement lane miles or state. Yeah, I think just because uh just we could check with him. He might just have a contact or a relationship with someone within the district

and I'll check with them too. I I've got some contact with DOT and and um chief I know you do as well. Yeah, I can help with that as well. Yeah, I think I think if we have an informal here's where we have something on this like gauge their temperature for what we have to do and if they all of a sudden felt very strong the other well I know I know at one point we had also talked about and I don't remember how long ago this was but we had talked about even if it couldn't be a proper entrance and exit for all PD traffic if it could at least be for emergency vehicles That's like what the fire department has between the solar that is an emergency access.

But they don't use that. But like I was more thinking like if there was if like going to be hard to do that though. I mean realistically if someone's pulling in oh you can't go like what are you going to do? You don't I'm not saying unpaid. I'm saying literally like it's only for police vehicles and if there are not like if people are just coming to police department they would go. I don't know if they have different levels of curb cuts like if they were like this is you know official vehicle like so that you could get a quick in and out you could you could have quick in and out either way only is a different level of permitting than general public

I think that's something that we could probably ask them second if there was some sort of denial or something yeah they're like we can't do that for you we can't have another general purpose access but they have something special because I I think the that parallel road is an option but not if you look at the property across the street they have two entrances and egresses literally I mean it's like yeah and the gigantic gigant is it gigantic park no what are they are they both on 125 though the glass are they both on 125 or is one 12 No they're both on

there's definely Well, wait though. Is that the end of They're not because that's the end of falls. Falls that comes up. What I'm saying is what I'm saying is there there are several places along 125 that have I don't think we're gonna I don't think we're going to have a problem. I really do not think we're going to have a problem. I do think it warrants I just remembered at some point you would have to do X then we know what as opposed to All right, moving on. All right, expensive.

Um, Jim and the chief will kind of spearhead check in with me. Um I will let um Doug know that we're going to move just ahead with the design build package and kind of table uh do but also you have to know which way you're coming in for the main entrance, right? Does the entrance going to be No, the public is coming. It have to come on the He said we could rotate the building any we can we can kind of evaluate shift the general public flip it.

No, it's not going to change the overall. It'll just I know I'm just have a hard time picturing it on the other way. So, um I hope

that was the only other thing we had. I think since Eric's not here to talk to his information you provided, I think we can just I did talk to Jared. I don't I don't Oh, yeah. We did just that his his ability to attend is limited anytime in the evening. So, he's willing to stay on, but he said it's just that's his limitation. I think if Doug gets moving ahead, I think we should probably try and establish kind of standing monthly meeting and then we don't have anything to talk about, we can but that way at least we're on the town calendar.

Correct. And I think we kind of decided in March Thursday seemed to be the like open one where we split the planning board and somebody else in terms of use of this room. Yeah. The Our next one is May 21st. Is that right? The planning board in May. Oh somebody's away. I don't know about that. They're normally the first and third, right? But they're going to be second and fourth in May, I think is what they said. Just for the month. Just for the month. Yeah. Just to make it. But we I mean we we can use the other room if we needed to. That's true. Well, what time does their meeting start? 7. So

they're at seven. Yeah. So we could Yeah. piggyback. Not going to have a problem being here. I think we could just plan for our meetings to be no later than 6:45 just so that we give turnover. Okay. Um so that would put us May 21st. So May 21st at 6.

I think we could be just plan to be out of here by 6:45. We don't disturb the room. Yeah. Unless Yeah. I don't unless there's something something big that they want to get in here early, then we can always just shorten up to six. I'm sure we we won't have a problem. All right. So, we'll plan for the third Monday of the month moving forward. Third Monday. Third, sorry. Third Thursday. Thursday. Shees. And that should be the only, you know, that should be the only Okay, I'll send a note to the newsletter because I'm sure they'll ping me soon about uh just getting in their calendar because they they need to get

actually Yeah, you might want to reach out to her like it's usually around it's theif That's for articles. That's for articles though. I think I think I can sneak it in. I can probably just say, "Hey, put in the town hall." I know she was working on it today. So maybe a call either tonight at Yeah, I'll just And then about putting out the call if other people want to join. I I I hear what you're saying, Liz, about people coming and asking the same questions. But that's

pretty small now, too, because Lois doesn't come. Yeah, I think we just I think we just we could you know that gets announced through the select board. We want to put a little flyer into the newsletter be like research committees looking for one a volunteer two I mean if there were two people that were interested we could take but you had we had said in our minutes to ask the select that so we taken yeah we'll just have to put that next voice Well, there's some people that come to the meeting. So, and there's a lot of people.

Yeah, I think if we wanted Yeah, that's true. A lot a lot of people do. I would do it that way. Besides the newspaper, it would be nice to have somebody that was sort of following it or that could go on, you know, if interested, you know, maybe we could say a little thing like if interested, please Well, no. Well, please review the what's already on the website because there's a lot of information there and you guys went over some of it, right? Or or not yet? I'm waiting for someone to tell me what you want me to change. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think we I haven't But like Buddy was saying, we're getting started like it's some of that information probably. Yeah.

So, I think at a minimum we just need to say this is okay. And just double check that if anyone's making sure 112. There have been 112 views on this week's select board meeting. So there are definitely more people that watch than come. So yeah. So I think do Yeah. But like I I don't always watch it every Tuesday. So yeah, I guess we just solicit make the volunteer announcement like because it would be great if they'd already, you know, they don't bring up why

they think we haven't considered other places. I think even I mean Eric's been I know I know that's why I want to talk to him. I want to talk about that when he's here just to know where his perspective where that's from. coming from people talking to. There was one gentleman at the town meeting that brought up just the question. So that was what? No, I've heard it lots of times. Well, I know, but I think that's what Eric said. He's hearing it from so it's like we have to provide more in the FAQ as to how it there. Well, because they thought that the it couldn't be developed into something else and then they discovered that it could. No, it's more complicated than that.

It's way more complicated than that. And it is not something that is feasible. It is just not. We were squeezing something in. It's 10 pounds of something in a 5 pound sack kind of at that corner because that part of the the fire department. Oh, no. I wasn't talking about the fire department, but at the wreck that they Well, there was also that was the original. I know we can't do that now, but but there's also the um the wreck thing that people thought it was the stipulation that couldn't something couldn't be put up there that wasn't wreck. Yeah. No. And I think the other one that we hear a lot about is

people who remember when they were trying to pass the fire station an early iteration of that project was a joint complex as public safety complex but but over the years as they trimmed that project down they eliminated the option to combine the two. So but that's yeah we did way back when have someone look at can we add on to it and it was like But you lose all the interior space of the fire department which is the dormatory and like because it's just it's building code stuff like you can't have and that that hill wasn't great either. No, that was terrible.

But we but if we can get all of those kind of questions in an easily digestible answer and put on our website, make it accessible. Yeah. Then okay, can I get a motion? Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I So