Library Board - Regular Meeting

Roll call please. Bowie? Here. Coleman? Here. Johnson? Kim? Naker? Here. Gang? Here. Chair Jones? Here.

Five present, two absent, one being excused. The first item on the agenda is the approval of minutes, minutes 25 dash 51. Library board minutes twelve three.

So this is the approval of the minutes. I'll take a motion from Council Member Yang to approve the minutes. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye.

Five in favor, zero opposed. The minutes are adopted. The next item on the agenda is Resolution 20 five-nineteen 33, approve library debt write off for certain debts incurred prior to 2024.

Thank you. So this item is related to library materials debts and basically forgiving those debts and, you know, restoring our patrons' access. The exact amount is is to be calculated, but that's basically what this item is. I would like to move version three of this, so, approve this as amended. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed?

Five in favor, zero opposed? The resolution has been amended.

Is adopted.

My adopted as amended.

All

right. The next item on the agenda is Resolution 20 five-two thousand and three, authorizing certain activities to support a cooperative relationship between the St. Paul Public Library and the Friends of the St. Paul Public Library.

So this is a resolution that basically, as it said, is authorizing your relationships with the Friends of the Library. We appreciate very much so that we can engage in activities with them, whether it's, you know, accepting funds or, you know, there's certain materials and things that we share or sell or that they do for us. And so that's basically formalizing this relationship. And so I just want to recognize that Beth Burns is here, and we really appreciate your partnership and all of the work that you do for us. So with that, I'll take a motion from council member Coleman to approve this item. Is there any discussion? Yes. Councilperson Baker.

Thanks, chair. Just well, I wanna echo your thanks to the friends. We are so glad to have friends like you,

as I think Director Burns says often and beautifully. Just wanted to confirm, looking at the resolution, seems like many of these things have happened in

the past. Is this are we just realizing now that we need this formality? Did something in

the past expire or is there something new happening? Just want to

understand the context of the

I will turn it over to Director Gilmore.

Chair Gilmore, Council President Nacre. We've been advised that it's a good practice to do this annually. So we'll tend to see that on an annual basis. I think you saw it this time last year as well. So no significant changes, just good to have it on the record. Any

other questions? Alright. I think I had a motion on the table of council member Coleman to approve this item. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed?

Five in favor is there opposed? Motion has been adopted. The final item on the agenda is staff report twenty five dash two seven six, Rondo Community Library update.

I'd like to welcome up Director Hartman to give us an update on the many things that have been happening with our transition of the Rondo Community Library. So I'll turn it over to you, Director Hartman.

Chair Jost, thank you so much. And before I start, I just want to thank everybody on the Library Board for your city and community leadership during unprecedented times. So I appreciate your attention to this matter, and look forward to continuing to partner with you and others in our city. And and I also wanna acknowledge Chair Gilson Councilmember Bowie, who were at our our grand opening of the Rondo Community Library at our Helly Q Brown Community Center on Friday, and I'll get to that in a minute I guess. But today, I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you an update on the temporary location, and an update on also the renovation of our permanent location.

And then I'll also provide an update on the planned community engagement that will inform our renovation. So on Friday, we had an open house and a ribbon cutting. And I heard from so many people that it was a difficult week and a difficult day, and they were so pleased to be in community with us, and to celebrate the important continuation of library services in the Rondeau neighborhood. So, really a gift. Council member Bui, I had to include this picture of you because it was so good because there was some kids that, like, cut the ribbon, like, too soon, and it was great.

And then also we kinda like redid it with another ribbon. So it really was a joyous event. As as you all know, Benny Roberts with Hallie Q Brown is an incredible partner to the library and to the city and of course to many of you around the table. So so pleased to be there, pleased to see so many elders come through and so many folks who could give a tour a tour to. And, I know some of you may have been able to stop by.

You are welcome to stop by at any time and staff can give you a tour and you are also welcome to reach out to my office and I would be so happy to meet you there. And, I'll walk you through the space and answer any further questions that you have. My favorite is the two girls reading in the chair. Library. Right? So, we heard so many people say, wow, really feels like a library. Wow, is

this space bigger than what I thought it was?

So, I really And tremendous amount of thank you and gratitude to my team at all levels for putting this together in a relatively short period of time. I just, these pictures don't do it justice, but I want to make sure that you all know what the library services we have in that temporary location. So, we have our collections, books, DVDs, newspapers, and more. Our programs Storytime, Fun Lab, Create Tech, Homework Center, Reading Together, those continue at our temporary location. Our library services like CROP, which are social service providers, Open House to provide coordinated housing and other supports for folks.

Open Lab, computer classes, a partnership program called Open to Business that supports entrepreneurs. And we have an ongoing partnership with Ramsey County City of St. Paul Public Health called our Public Health and Public Places. And they continue to be there like they were at our Rondo at our previous location. I also want to let you know that these updated program schedules is on our website.

We also have many, many copies to distribute to folks when they come to our Holly Q. Brown Community Center. As you can see, our homework center remains operating Monday through Thursday, reading together the same. We continue to provide a snack, an after school snack for kids and families. Our story time, our fun lab.

Our fun lab is a program for elementary school kids. The Create Tech is our equivalent for teenagers. Crop, computer classes and then something new that we started doing in the previous location, which is just a coffee and community gathering on a weekly basis for folks to come in and talk about whatever's on their mind and and give us their perspectives on library services. So, really value that. I wanna mention a couple of the partnerships that are really important here.

So, the programs are being held in our library study rooms. Study rooms that are inside the library space and a program room. And then, all Hallie Q Brown services are operating as planned, and as they have been, including their food shelf and their other programs. Our Sankofa Reading Program, well not ours, NIDCAD Sankofa Reading Program will Marvelyn is smiling because she has a special connection to it. Thank you Marvelyn for your support of Sankofa.

Sankofa will continue to be a present and it'll run out of MLK Rec. So we'll do two cohorts of that. And MLK Rec is partnering with the library to host one session per week Create Tech and our computer class and Fun Lab. And I think this is a great way to further activate their space in collaboration with us and to blend those two different audiences. The kids that they're seeing every day after school at MLK, We haven't been seeing at the library. Right? So, it's a great opportunity to cross those two things together. Library materials are listed here. Everything that you would expect the library to have. DVDs, picture books, adult, adult non fiction.

Lucky day, which I think all of you have received my pitch about Lucky day. Which is come into the library and if there's a book that you've had on hold or you're on a long waiting list, it might be your lucky day and there might be a copy that you can pick up just that day. So those are books that we don't allow people to put holds on but as a way to encourage folks to come into our space. So those are available and a rotating CD and LP display. We did hear I had a couple of conversations with some elders at the event who said, well, why don't you have this book?

So we are on it. I wanna let them know that. And the folks that I talk directly, like I already gave the list, we are on it. So that's exactly the beautiful opportunity that we have every day in libraries, that folks come in and they tell us what they want, and we go and get it. So, that'll continue. I wanna speak to meeting rooms. As I know, permanent location has a high usage of meeting rooms. So, Rondo Community Library at the Hallie Q. Brown Center has two study rooms that can seat up to four people each. It also has program space outside of our program hours for 35 people.

And so, both of those things can be reserved on sppdel.org. It will start next week on the twentieth. Then the Hallie Q Brown Community Center also has rooms to rent. Club Room A, C, and then the canteen. And you can call Hallie Q Brown directly for that.

And I also wanna make sure that I give a pitch to other meeting rooms across the city as a resource during the time that we're relocated at Hallie Q. Brown. George Latimer Central, Highland, and some of our rec centers as well. We've seen a lot of people using Frogtown, and so we really appreciate that too. We work really closely with our parks to make sure that we can refer folks to what they need, if what their first choice isn't available.

So, Rondo Community Library is open our regular hours, fifty nine hours per week, seven days a week. Those are our current location, our current hours there. 16 library staff are now assigned to the Rondo Community Library at Hallie Q Brown Community Center. And there was about 20 before at our permanent location. And so those four people have been offered temporary reassignments and have taken temporary reassignments.

Metro Transit bus 65 goes right down Dale Street. The stop is Dale and Eichelhart. Then you just walk one block. There's plenty and plenty and plenty of parking for library patrons in the main lot, at least 80 spots. If that can if that that would be amazing.

If we ran out of parking spaces and if that happens, then I'll make sure to work with director Rodriguez and Benny Roberts to find another solution there. I wanna just mention that library safety specialists are also present at the Rondo Community Library at Halle Q Brown during every open hour. That location as well as all of ours have safety playbooks and standard response protocols for emergency situations. Social service providers are present at our weekly crop. That includes Radius Health, Minnesota Community Care, and others that are not mentioned here.

Additionally, we welcome everyone who's able to follow our code of conduct. We're not however a homeless shelter. So, we refer folks to other partners. This is our practice on all locations. Our library staff and our mental health professional will continue to coordinate with familiar faces and with our heart team in connecting community members to the resources they need.

And so, unsheltered community members are in need of services, the library staff refer accordingly. And we're staying in regular, in some cases daily conversation with Helly Q, and with the MLK rec about services and safety. And so, there are additional crisis or other levels of support needed during the period of our lease, we have the resources to assist and and we'll be on that right away. And Hallie Q Brown also has a lot of experience also supporting folks who are in crisis. Our ask to you is please help us communicate about this temporary location.

That's our number one priority as it relates to that organization. We've communicated via email to patrons who have marked Rondeau Community Library as their home location. We've also sent it out through a newsletter, and we welcome folks to sign up for that newsletter, so they're getting sort of proactive information. It's on our website. Our locations have been changed on Google Maps and Apple Maps.

Promoting it on social media and more to come there, info in the library, and then partner in media outreach. And also we know this this is a change for folks, and so we'd appreciate your help there. I do wanna acknowledge that we know we don't have a big enough banner sign on that location, so that's forthcoming. And in addition, we know we need a larger sign on our permanent location. So we had a couple of delays there. So thank you for your patience there. That's for sure coming. Questions about Hallie Q. Brown? Otherwise, I'll move into renovation update. Don't why I raised

my hand, but I just want to say, Director Hartman, before we move on with renovation, just thank you and your team so much for all of your work, for the temporary location, the Hallie Q Brown Center. House member Bui and I were there, and I there were the the pictures don't do it justice. There were so many people there, and just the energy and the joy in the room and just how how good it felt to be with everyone, in in community there. It it was it was an amazing event, and so I'd encourage everyone to come and check it out. I was also, just totally blown away by what your staff was able to do with the vision they had for that space.

It was I didn't know what to expect, and it it was great. It was really great the way that they they they made use of all of those spaces to provide the services that, you know, we that that our community members need and that we're the Rhonda library and just just such a great job. It was it was a really great event. I was happy to be there.

Councilmember Bowie. Thank you, chair Jones. I just also wanna just echo, appreciate just all the hard work that went into it. It really revamped and brought so much life in that space. Like Chair Joss had mentioned, I didn't know in what way we were gonna pull it off.

Rock Library is so big and we have so much material but made it happen and I just want to just congratulate you all. Also, just like the showing, know, the there are so many board members and elders there, there are young people there, we had live music from Walker West Academy, I mean we had some really good food and just you know, creating a space for people to just come together. So I really felt like last Friday was a it felt like a community reunion. I think even in my remarks I had said, I felt like, you know, that date felt more like a happy new year than than the New Year's Eve or the New Year's Day that we had this year. Just I wanted to say appreciate it.

I do have a question but I was just going to wait for the presentation to ask my question.

Okay, sounds great. Any other comments before we

move on Thanks so much, Chair Jost. Thank you so much, Doctor. Hartman. This is really exciting to hear about, and I'm sad that I wasn't there on Friday. It sounds amazing. I know that we're way too early to have any usage data for the temporary location.

Due to usage data, that's Yeah. Right

But I'm just curious if you've been hearing anything anecdotally from staff who were there over the weekend or the first couple of days of this week. If you have a sense of if people are finding it, if people are using in, you know, if any any sense that we have would be helpful.

Yeah. Councilmember Coleman, thanks for that question. It's certainly like some folks are still uncovering it. I don't have any specific use data, but it's quieter. Yeah, so that's a part of what we're really pushing is to help people understand that the larger banner will help that. And what we've observed is that once people find it, they're like, oh, I'm gonna tell all my friends. But we know we have more work to do to help folks understand where we've relocated to and what services are available there. It's a fair question.

Thank you. Any other questions before we

move on? Great. Go.

Okay, thank you. So I know you're just as curious about the rent on the planned renovation for the Rondo Community Library, and so I wanna wanna speak to where we are in that service, in in that. And and also just kinda like restate some of the information we shared before. The improvements of the location at Dillon University are informed by ongoing patron and staff experience and feedback, community guided community first public safety, the library's enhanced safety plan, and best practices for crime prevention. And, the timing is informed by the availability of these one time funds that that we have for this project and for our lease at Holly Q.

Brown. Happily, the library has found a way to leverage some other funding and adjust our internal timeline, so during the time we are closed, without extending the closure timeline, we will also be able to make technology rich improvements and play and learn investments in the Rondeau Community Library. So, next month, we'll be back here to talk again about transforming libraries now that a lot of this work is underway. But, you may recall that the transforming library vision and funding includes technology and play and learn investments in all of our locations. So originally, Rhonda was slated later for that, but given that we're closed, we really heard the the challenge of, let's make sure that during the period of time we're using it to the best of our ability.

So we'll be making technology improvements and play and learn improvements in that space without extending the existing closure timeline. The Oh, yeah.

Council president Nacre had a question.

Oh, I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, the slides. But thank you, chair Jones. Director, that makes a lot of sense to use the time when it's closed to make those improvements. But didn't we I thought we ribbon cut a brand new play and learn space at Rondo.

Yeah. Born Chair Jost, council president at NACRE a few years ago, we did revamp the play and learn space. It's very well used. It needs a refresh. So that is a part of what our work is to make sure that as we touch all of these libraries, we're making them as best we can. And it's not a revamp, right? We'll keep the same murals and some of the pieces we've already invested in. And there's some also some work and some feedback that we've heard from community members and families about how that space could be even better.

Okay.

So, the budget for the technology specific work, it's already secured. It's from a grant from the State of Minnesota, and that will be coming to City Council later this month for your approval, should you decide to do that. And, the budget for the play and learn space investments is already secured through private funds from the Friends of the Saint Paul Public Library. I wanna share with you again the renovation timeline. And, the main idea here is that I have committed to council member Bouie and commit to all of you that this will be the longest possible this will this timeline, I hope to be shorter.

But based on what we know, we would reopen our permanent location by the 2026, And I will be working with my team and we'll be working with purchasing and our design firm to see where there are opportunities to shorten that so that we can reopen that location as soon as we can because I recognize that that's really important to us and to the community that it serves. We've also we'll also have some opportunities to do continued staff engagement, I'm sorry, community engagement to inform the project, and that includes informing the technology improvements. Certainly at our Open House and Ribbon event, we'll have a survey for patrons. And what we do when we make technology improvements is we send an email to everybody who's booked the community meeting rooms in the last year. And so we'll do that here.

And we'll also be doing caregiver and family engagement with job voting about the youth programming and story time, and focus groups with particular groups. I'm open to further discussion there, but Rondo elders, homework center parents, and students, and Rondo staff will be tabling at key neighborhood events as well. So, it's really important surveys and conversations at larger events including Iftar. And we do not have a date for Iftar yet, but when we do we will absolutely make sure that all of you get it. So I think the most important thing here is how important it is for us that everything that we're doing in the library is informed by community members who use the library.

So a reminder, during our temporary relocation, some of our administrative staff are still officed at 461 North Dale. The mobile library continues to operate. And, our contract with security began in December and that's going fine. Haven't had any issues. And, we'll have continued collaboration and outreach and communications with businesses both in the area around Hallie Q Brown and also, of course, at the area around University and Dale. We'll continue to provide regular updates to council member Bouley and board chair, Jillst, as well as this arena should that be appropriate or requested.

That's what I got. Alright. Any questions before I call this? Go to council member Woofers and then councilor Yea.

Thank you, chair Jost. I have a question particularly with the temporary location. So, it's a station right next door to the Rondo Community Education Center. If you can speak to if there's any even if it's informal or formalized like partnerships, I can imagine that it's more accessible now to younger kids, especially being at Hallie Q. Brown, but if you can speak to any partnership with the school district or specifically to that site.

Chair Jones, Councilmember Bourbouy, thank you for that question. I reached out to those principals, one of them was at the grand opening. So, we look forward to like a different kind of relationship. And directly, our youth services specialists, our staff are in regular communication with schools in their district. Sometimes that communication goes through the media specialists, the folks that are the school librarians, or the family liaisons.

But in particular, that looks like coming, making sure that we go to classrooms to support the summer reading program, and district schools around summer learning loss. And also coming in to promote in the case of high schools or middle schools our read brave program. Thank you.

Thanks, Chair Jules. Well, Doctor. Harmon, I want to say thank you to you and your team for literally all the heavy lifting that went into relocating the library over to Hallie Q. Brown. I am very pleased that it's been a great success and to see the joy on the faces of our elected officials and our community members is very, very rewarding.

I wanted to take this opportunity to share the feedback that I shared with you when we spoke recently just so that I can let you all know my thoughts too as I play back the experience on when we first heard about the closing of Rondo Library, the temporary relocation, and then getting to hear some of the feedback that I shared with Director Harmon is really that when we as a board, we do hear about, hey, here's a plan that we've crafted, would really like to know the tensions within it too. We know that not everybody is always going to be happy. There's always going to be folks who are in agreement and not and some people who are really eager to share input. And when we get a plan, it's really important for us to understand like what are those tensions so that we as a board when people reach out to us whether it's our city staff or community members, we aren't caught off guard when those tensions do arise and we can navigate them. And I know that all of us here, we are problem solvers.

We're in this work because we are eager to solve problems and we bring that spirit with us to the table. And so, that's just like the transparency that I asked for just as I think about the Hayden Heights Library renovation happening in my ward and the council president Yu and your ward one day pretty soon here, I hope Riverview Library is going to be in line too for renovations. And also, I think it's really important for us as a board to have a game plan on what we do whenever our libraries do have to close down for renovation. I'm trying to figure out, all right, well when Hayden Heights is closed down for this year, what does that look like for our community in the Greater East Side? Does that mean that they are without a library the entire time?

Or are we going to find partnerships with our schools, with nonprofits nearby to also do a temporary relocation too? And I think that right now is a really pivotal moment for our board here to really figure out where we are at moving forward knowing that we have so many great projects lined up and that we want to have lined up for our communities here too. And so overall, it's been I'm really glad that we got to this point. I think there were many hurdles that we went through to get here. And I really commend you, Councilor Bui, for really letting us know as your colleagues where your community has been at, from the ones who are supportive to the ones who are not supportive.

Because for me initially, I was very opposed to Rondo Library being closed and I was very honest and transparent with you about that. And I do think that the conversations with our staff members and also with you Director Hartman has been really helpful and really enlightened me to see that there I think for me the biggest benefit the project here overall is that Rondo Library did not have to go through a very intensive long process of finding dollars for it to get their renovations done. It seemed like if anything it's like this expedited process that happened which I'm really grateful for so that the community there got what they needed to make sure that improvements were made into the library that will get us closer to safety, but that I also want to recognize will not solve all of the safety issues over at the intersection. Like there's going to be greater partnership that has to happen and communication between lots of government entities from, I hope, the county, also just even our transit partners too. And so I hope that moving forward, especially for this year, that is work that will continue to happen.

Because I also don't want to see our city be scapegoated for the crime, the violence and just the issues that arise over at that intersection. Like we all have a part to play and when I say that I'm talking about folks who are in elected positions, appointed positions and all of us as city staff who commit to looking out for our residents every day. And also making sure that Rondo Library remains safe and welcoming to all people, including the green line as well, public spaces there. And so I just wanted to share these thoughts because I have been thinking a lot about it. And again, with us getting closer to the renovation for Hidden Heights Library, it's just putting it into perspective how real and timely this conversation is.

And so I look forward to the conversations with you all. And if anybody would like to chat more with me offline about that, I'd love the opportunity to do that. And again, thanks for your leadership to you, Councilor Rublee, on this and to Director Hartman, you and our staff.

Any other questions, comments? Council President Aker.

Thanks Chair Jost. Also not a question, but thank you again Director for this really helpful presentation. And I just want to thank you, Ms. Yang. I agree with you entirely that I think the move to Helly Q can provide a model not just for the advocacy for the community that Ms. Bouie demonstrated, but also what to do when a library is closed. And personally, I would love to have the problem of being worried about where people will go when Riverview is closed because it's gonna be closed any minute now, so we have to worry about that. Not the case right now. But we will be seen in that position,

and Hayden Heights is gonna be

in that position. And I I think I think this is a model to move to a a local community center to try to find another location rather than being closed. I I think it's really better than having a community without a library for potentially a long time. So I'm hoping that we can use this and be planning now as something that we could we could do going forward. And it may not be able to be as extensive as what's happened at at HalliQ. I'm amazed actually at how you've really recreated Rondo at HalliQ in many ways. It's it's incredible. That may not be possible for a lot of reasons in different places, but I think there's probably something in between, you know, complete closure and having some services available somewhere else in the neighborhood. So eager to continue thinking that through.

Any other questions, comments, Councilor Mbuoy?

Thank you. I just want to I do appreciate you Councilmember Yang just sharing your thoughts and also just kind of the process. I think the context really matters too in terms of if people are questioning of like where did the page was turned, Or what not changed our mind, but how do we get to a place that we all can be in alignment? I think the biggest thing was just making sure that our community partners had what they needed to actually create space and maintain the library. One of the things I would say, definitely am behind championing this as a model.

I think we you know in the midst of renovations or transforming our libraries, we need to still have our services available. So, know I'm here to be an ally in that work, but one of the things I would say that makes this not so much unique, but just some of the qualities to look for. Hallie Q. Brown, that space where Randall Library is at was a early childhood learning center. So it already had like the structures and like the infrastructure and really the space that community already known for young people.

And also Hallie Q Brown is also in a process of archiving their history and documenting the history so a library makes sense and even just being very collaborative and adaptive. We know our nonprofits have had to support people in their entire livelihood, right, whether from young people into seniors and Hallie Q. Brown, know that's ingrained in their mission. I know for you know I'm really really confident that that exists you know in other neighborhoods, it's not just only unique to Rondo or unique to Halleke Brown, but I think this is a really great opportunity for our leadership and for our city to start expanding our community partnerships. I feel like we only benefit, you know, we only benefit especially now where we're you know, in our public spaces where sometimes there's questions around like what are safe havens, know, especially in these times.

I think our nonprofits are better suited, you know, to provide those community safety and that care and that protection, you know, and also supporting us with building that public trust.

Thank you, Council Member Bowie. Any other questions or comments? I just want to say thank you to all of you for your comments at the end. I think, Director Hartman, as we're going through, you know, what's happening at the Ronda Library at Hallie Q. Brown, just hearing from you and your updates, like what's going well, what could be improved, I think that would be helpful.

Just going back to, I think, one of your original comments about what we're hearing with what's going on, that would be helpful. And I think that everything we were just discussing just exemplifies how vital our libraries are to our community and how big of a deal it is to, you know, potentially close the Rondo library, to move the Rondo library. And as we're thinking about these transforming projects, now is a good time, council Morgen, council president Akers points, to to be able to plan and see if a temporary relocation is an option. In this situation, this worked out really well with the timing of of the funds as well as the you know, to be able to have the contract at Hallie Q. Brown.

It worked out well with Hallie Q. Brown, and we have an amazing partner there with Benny Roberts, the director. And so I think that's something similar we would be needing to look for in each of your communities or any community. And also having the funding available and the timing of the funding, I think that that is a huge constraint. I know the Hamlin Midway Library, we're not able to open a temporary relocation there.

But that, I mean, that's a significant cost and something that, you know, we will, you know, be able to work together to hopefully find solutions for if we have that money available. But that's, I think, a major challenge that we face. It's a big deal to relocate a library and be able to make that happen. And so I look forward to partnering with both of you and with Director Hartman and the administration as we're looking into what some of those options might be for the transitions for those libraries. To council member Bui's point, these community partnerships are I mean, we I don't know how we would have done this without without Benny and the Hallie Ke Brown Center.

And so those are just such such critical relationships that that we need in our community to support us, to support us as a city during this time. You know, we can't we can't do it all. And before we close, I I just director Hartman, I really appreciate you, you know, and and bringing us together in the moment that we're in. This is very challenging, and I wanna thank you. I wanna thank all of our staff and our our frontline workers there at the libraries right now that are providing those spaces and doing the great work they do every day to bring our communities together into places that are safe.

That's what we need right now. And so I'm just really grateful for our libraries every day, but especially grateful to them at this moment. And so I just want to thank everyone so much. I hope that everyone continues to come together as a community, and certainly please take care of each other during this time. So thank you so much. With that and nothing else to come before us, we are adjourned.