Orange City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, I'd like to call the regular city council meeting of September 8th, 2026 to order. And I'd like to welcome those that are in person in the chamber and those who might be participating remotely. Council member Gillenhammer is participating via teleconference this evening. All votes will be taken by roll call. Results will still appear on your screen to announce. So we'll begin with an, oh, and if you have not done so already, please silence your cell phones. Tonight's invocation will be given by Pastor Rick Olson, Orange City Fire Chaplain, and to be followed by the Pledge of Allegiance, which I will lead. Please stand.

Shana to our Jewish neighbors. I appreciate the invitation as we approach the 25th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks. As a reminder, 19 terrorists hijacked four planes and crashed in three locations, killing 2,977 victims on September 11, 2001. Among them were 343 New York City firefighters and paramedics, 23 New York City police officers, 37 Port Authority police officers, and the first victim of the day was a fire chaplain named Father Michael Judge. I have had the honor of serving for 18 years as a City of Orange Fire Chaplain as a direct result of the Orange City firefighters who went to New York City to serve in the recovery efforts. Father Judge was killed in the lobby of the North Tower when the South Tower collapsed. In his pocket was found this prayer. Lord, take me where you want me to go. Let me meet who you want me to meet. Tell me what you want me to say and keep me out of your way. I'll be praying according to my faith tradition, and I invite you to join me according to your own. Father in heaven, this 25th memorial reminds us that we are not playing a game. You have called us to serious business. Lives are at stake, lives that you bled and died for, lives that you love. So in this meeting, will you focus the attention of our politics and our decision-making on those lives? I pray for each one on our council, I pray for our Mayor Dan Slater. I pray for our city manager, Jared Hildebrand. I pray for our city staff, especially Police Chief Jevick and Fire Chief Velazquez. We come here, as the Apostle Paul tells us, under a commission to do your work as your hands and feet. Keep the weight of that commission at the forefront of all of our attention. We pray for the brave men and women who serve as first respondents in our city, police and fire, And I've seen that they give more than any man or woman should be expected to give for this or any city. We pray for our military, both home and abroad. Give them courage and wisdom to do what you ask them to do. Give our political leaders the wisdom to know the limits of what they ask them. Father, for all of us, may we remember what you ask of us. To do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly before you. We pray along with Father Judge. Lord, take us where you want us to go. Let us meet who you want us to meet. Tell us what you want us to say and keep us out of your way. In your son's name, I pray. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Pastor Rick. Please join me in a promise of loyalty to our flag and to our country. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Mayor Pro Tem Bilodeau.

Present.

Council Member Barrios. I'm here. Council Member Dimitriou.

Present.

Council Member Gutierrez? Here. Council Member Gillenhammer?

Here.

Mayor Slater?

Here.

Quorum is present with Council Member Tavalares excused.

Thank you. Public comments. At this time, members of the public may address the council on matters not listed on the agenda within the subject matter jurisdiction of the city council, provided that no action may be taken on off-agenda items unless authorized by law. And how many public comments do we have this evening?

We have 12.

OK. Public comments are limited to three minutes per speaker. And if any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council on non-agenda items, please raise your hand. If you are calling in, please press star nine to raise your hand. We'll hear in-person speakers first and then move on to remote speakers. If you are participating remotely, the city clerk will announce when your three minutes are up and then you will be muted. Council Member Gillingham, are there any members of the public there with you who would like to participate in the public comment portion of this meeting or otherwise address any agenda item for this meeting?

There are not.

Thank you. All right. Our first speaker is Charles Romanoff Bivens, followed by Victoria Lim. If the next speaker in line could make their way toward the front, that would be fantastic.

Mayor, before we start with the public speakers, I did want to announce that in accordance with the Ralph M. Brown Act, the teleconference location has been identified in the notice and agenda for this meeting, and roll call votes will be taken for all action items as long as Councilmember Gillenhammer is participating via teleconference.

Very well, thank you. Okay, Ms. Charles, is that you?

Thank you all. I want to thank you all for being allowed to chat with you this evening. Pardon me, I'd like to start this with a very positive note. These two ladies here and Karina have been absolutely outstanding. They've been very kind and helpful. I have very severe health issues, and Karina in particular helped take care of me to get in. I was at St. Joseph's, and I actually have to go right back after this. Pardon me, but... I have many health problems. And in the past, Mrs. Bar-Ellis and I have communicated. And I want to thank you. When you wrote how I was beautifying the area, I wanted to thank you for that. That meant so much to me. It really did. As you know, I've had numerous problems. And this is my temporary residence, given the fact that I have to be close to the hospital. So I think you get the idea in that. I have not received really good news, so. But that aside, I have... I have a severe problem with somebody who has been causing a lot of problems and for example they've poisoned some of my trees and I know people may think well it's just a tree well these are very expensive and they've add up just these trees in particular over six thousand dollars and also my Japanese leaf maples have been stolen and they're pretty bonsai I'm a bonsai master also orchidologist and most prestigious motor car club in the world chairman not anymore I had to surrender my tenure but nonetheless there been some very very bad things happening and it's really grown monumentally and I need your help I need the police help I have had my Mercedes 450 SL was totally destroyed. Someone walked all over it. I went to the Orange Police. They said, if you do not have a camera, then we're not going to help you. Well, I went and filed the report nonetheless. And they said, send photos. I sent the photos. USAA came and said, there's no photos, no nothing. And that really put me in a very bad light with my insurance company, although I have an outstanding record. Then, pardon me, a few years later, my classic Lincoln Continental Mark V collector series, very rare with the Ford Telephone and CB. 1979, that car was just shy of $30,000. Today, I just read auction results last week. One just sold for $150,000. There have been numerous others. But nonetheless, there was nothing done about it. I just found out recently from the police that they did nothing. And I'm a number one supporter of the police and the fire department. I have all my 9-11. My family's from New York. And so I was there. My cousin was there. He works at, what do you call it, in New York, Disney Studios. But nonetheless... But this individual's been causing a lot of trouble. I found out who it is, and I had to go to the federal government over this. And it is being investigated. I just would like to have some safety. Charles? Yes, sir.

You're over, but I'll give you another 30. Oh, I am?

I'm so sorry. I'll give you another 30 seconds. It's been very bad. Something happened the other day. Someone from the city came by. They breached the security. My service dog escaped. He was on Glassell. I fell. I have all kinds of injuries to me. And I don't know what's going on. I just wished whatever's going on to approach it in perhaps a very different manner. And as Mrs. Barrios knows, I've always communicated with her. And I've always appreciated her helping Tim, too, the plumber. He's in Hawaii, by the way. But he survived one of the hurricanes. But nonetheless, I don't know. I had a different agenda. But the immense kindness of these ladies has really mellowed it out. And I did. I've left messages if you need some help with bankruptcy issues. I'll just tell you, Rolls-Royce Owners Club, I tripled the membership, and I also have kinds of levels. So if you ever need any help, feel free to reach out.

Okay, thank you so much for making the time to come tonight. All right, okay. After Victoria is Justin Smith.

Good evening, esteemed council members and Mayor Slater. My name is Victoria Lim, and I'm a resident and homeowner in the neighborhood next to the proposed development. I'm speaking to oppose the development of the warehouse proposed for 2411 North LaSalle. My name is Victoria Lim, and I'm a resident and homeowner in the neighborhood next to the proposed development site. I love the city of Orange, probably like many of you. I moved here with my husband four years ago, looking for a place to establish our roots. I wasn't just looking for some place to call my home. I was looking for a place to call my community. I believe I found that in Orange. I love walking the paths through Eisenhower Park, taking recreation classes offered by the city, trying new coffee shops in Old Town, and volunteering with the Orange Public Library. I don't want to throw it all away and look for a new home. On the City of Orange website, under the Section for Community Development Planning Commission, the general plan states the long-term vision for growth and change through the year 2030. The plan states, The city will work to improve the quality of life for all residents by providing residential, commercial, industrial, and public uses that exist in harmony with the surrounding urban and natural environments. You've heard from many other residents how this proposed warehouse cannot exist in harmony with the natural environment in our neighborhood setting. It's not harmony to live next to a development that adds toxins to our air and contributes cacophony at all hours of the night when you're trying to get your deepest sleep. It's not harmony to drive out residents, resulting in lower property taxes, reduced spending, and weaker communities. Council members and Mayor Slater, you were elected to your positions because we the people believe in you to do what's best for the city. I understand that you need to make decisions concerning our financial future. I know that our voices are just one side of the story, whereas Rexford Industrial is an $8 billion corporation providing the other voice. Please hear the voices of the people you represent. Please preserve the energy and vitality of our city. Don't let orange turn into a city that people drive to to get to somewhere else. Please reject the development of the proposed warehouse. Thank you.

Thank you, Victoria. Following Justin is Doug Oldham.

Good evening, City Council and Mayor. My name is Justin Smith and I'm here to also speak about the Rexford Warehouse Project. I've lived in the adjacent neighborhood for over four years. Every single day I walk or drive past the warehouse. Other neighbors have spoken of the many risks and issues in past meetings and will again tonight. But I want to touch on disaster. Disaster is rare, but just this summer, we had the GKN aerospace chemical leak in Garden Grove. We had a warehouse fire at the Fullerton Airport. and the lineage frozen food warehouse fire in the Boyle Heights neighborhood of LA that burned for five days. And when it was done burning, it left the putrid smell of rotting food for two months. When Rexford had their community meeting with our neighbors a few months ago, they promised us that our concerns should be allayed because they only get high quality tenants. Well, that's a pretty nebulous statement. What counts as a high quality tenant? Lineage Logistics is the largest cold storage warehouse company in the world. That seems like a pretty high quality tenant to me. And I had originally thought that that Boyle Heights warehouse must have been old, potentially derelict since it had burned. It opened in 2018 and it also burned briefly in 2024. Lineage has only been around for 14 years, and in that time, it's admitted to 34 building fires. Are we ready for the scenario where Orange is known as the city with a big warehouse fire? Do we want to be a city known for poisoning its residents? Given the track record of facilities in Southern California and the companies that operate them, that hypothetical doesn't seem so impossible. Don't let this warehouse be built. Don't blot our neighborhoods and introduce the risk for real catastrophe. Thank you. Thank you, Justin.

Following Doug is Amy Losey. Doug?

Yeah, my name is Doug Oldham, and I moved to the city of Orange about 10 years ago. And my wife and I were retirees, and we followed our grandkids to Orange County. I think that's kind of common. I really like the city of Orange. I have a feeling that they do a lot of things right here. When we bought our house, my wife pointed out that we were on the edge of a light industrial area. And it really didn't worry me at all because they were all nicely landscaped. You didn't see trucks coming in and out of them. They were clean and well kept. So it hasn't been a worry to me until just recently. Okay, we've lived here for 10 years and been very happy. The proposed warehouse on Glassell or whatever they sell it to, hopefully they don't sell it to somebody that does disasters all the time, but Glassell, Okay, really I think can cause a lot of grief to all the residents in that area. Both of my granddaughters went to the Fletcher Elementary School and they're gone now, but the last thing I heard was they were considering putting in 36 bays for diesel trucks that we're hoping the planning commission gave them access 24 hours a day to run. well my grandkids aren't there anymore but if that happens there's going to be all sorts of diesel pollution for the kids that are in fletcher at this time and if they live in the neighborhood it won't just be at school it'll be all day long 24 7. Okay, I realize that the corporation selling the building and the one putting whatever they put in there need to make money. I understand that. But it's kind of up to the Planning Commission and the City Council to make sure things are done reasonably. To me here, there's a scope of the operation. For me and many residents, if trucks were running constantly from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., that would be a bad thing, a real bad thing. But so much better than 24-7. So we have to make some compromises and... and limit the scope of things. It would also be really bad if they had, right now that building has four truck bays. They're asking the Planning Commission to allow 36 diesel trucks that run 24-7. And that just seems like a horrible plan to me. I realize that the residents and the light industry have to coexist, but the key here is moderation. And I think the City Council and the Planning Commission, their job is to protect the residents of Orange. And I hope they can do that and limit the scope of this operation. Thanks. Thank you, Doug.

Following Amy is Susan Hoover.

Hi. I live behind the Orange Mall, and I'm here to talk about the development that's going in there. We were at a community meeting last week, and they talked about what we wanted to go into that area. And I think the majority of the people that live behind the mall are already understanding that we are getting development, we are getting housing or condos or some type of residential area that's going in there. And we understand that and we know that. Unless you're delusional, you will understand that that is what is going in. We aren't going to live there, so we don't care if there's going to be green space or wrought iron fencing or whatever. What we do care about, though, is the traffic and the traffic control. We need stoplights. We need some type of control there. I sat at that meeting next to a man who probably was like in his mid-80s. and he said to me you know i've lived in orange my entire life and i live on the hot um on canal on the back side of canal um on the back side of uh canal towards eisenhower and i'm afraid to back out in my driveway and it's only going to get worse and i don't think that's fair for you guys to do that to us that has nothing to do with the developers that has nothing to do with the landowners that has everything to do with you and the city and the city planner and the city managers What are you guys going to do to help us out? No one has mentioned anything to any of us about any of that. We need help. I was driving down to Vons on Monday. There was an Amazon delivery guy parked on Canal. Nobody could get around him. We were all backed up both ways. That's not fair. It's just going to get worse. How are you going to help us? Anybody? It's not fair. I know you don't have an answer for us now, baby, but there are the answers. This has been going on for a couple of years, and we haven't heard from you. Please, Dan, I know you and I have talked on the phone. I've talked to Captain Tavolaris on the phone. I've met with other people. We've heard nothing from you. We don't care if there's a restaurant going in. We don't care if you guys put a seized candy in there. We need to know what you're going to do about the traffic control. Help us out.

All right. Thank you, Amy. Following Susan is Betsy McEnany. Hope I said that right.

I'll give you a minute so you can look at my handout that I made.

You get the gist

My name is Susan Locey-Huber, and I've lived in Orange since I was 10 years old, and I just had my 50th high school reunion, so that has been quite a long time. Last week, we had a meeting in the area that was hosted by one of our neighbors to talk about the Orange Mall and what's going on in the property there. And Ariana was at the meeting, and she made a comment to my sister. She said, what is with the traffic on Canal Street? And I started thinking, maybe you guys don't really know because you're not driving on Canal Street. You have no idea what we are dealing with. So I'm here to make you aware of the parking problem that we have on Canal Street. Last year, Sears put up signs that stopped allowing overnight parking and parking on their side of the parking lot. So what happened is the cars that come from the apartments, and if you look on my map, they're the two little red X's. There's the Orange Plaza apartments and the Sutter Mill apartments that are across the street. Those people don't have enough parking. So what they did is they started coming down Canal Street. And in the beginning, the OCTA buses couldn't make a turn. The people who went to the charter school couldn't get out. So red curb was added for the first 100 yards or so. But all that did is it pushed those neighbors who were parking from the apartment complexes further down north on Canal Street. A canal is only a two-lane road, and it has blind curves in several areas. The cars that are parked there create a dangerous situation. There is no access to a bike lane. Like Amy said, if anyone stops for any reason, everybody gets backed up. Not only am I concerned about the safety on of traffic. I'm concerned about the safety of the apartment residents crossing meets all hours of day and night with no crosswalk to get to their cars. And I'm also concerned about the potential for vandalism having cars parked 24-7 on that street with no one monitoring them. Additionally, the amount of trash and abandoned shopping carts has increased due to all this traffic. Now, if you take this existing problem and add to it the proposed residential units that are going to go in behind the JC Penney's and potentially the whole back of the mall, you have all kinds of additional parking that has no solution. When I saw the plans a couple of years ago, it did not allow for the amount of parking just for the mall lots, let alone what is already there. There was an Instagram post, and I know it's really hard to read, so I wrote it on the bottom that I saw the other day. It said, after an East Orange resident raised concerns about wildlife evacuation and planning, the city responded. Mayor Dan Slater, Council Member John DiMicchio, and representatives from fire and police departments met with a resident to hear those concerns and kick off the process of updating the evacuation plan for East Orange. Where is our meeting? Where is our give and take where we can respond back and forth and get some kind of a dialogue going with this? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Susan. Following Betsy is Christina Martinez.

Good evening. I'm here to speak against the proposed warehouse project by Rexford at 2411 North Glassell. I want to talk a little bit about the fact that my neighbors and I have no confidence about the process for seeking approval. um that uh they're really the process isn't really taking into account in any kind of serious way the deep concerns of the residents in the neighborhood for example rexford had the required community meeting at grahalva park this summer they offered us cookies and glossy pictures and diagrams of the proposed projects but no real answers for hundreds of people who showed up Their pictures and diagrams showed stylish paint schemes and accents and the trees that they would allow to continue standing there. But they didn't show in any of their diagrams a single one of what I counted 38 truck bays that will operate 24-7. We were asked to submit many of our unanswered questions on index cards that night, and to my knowledge, none of us got an answer on any of our questions to Rexford. In other words, it was kind of a dog and pony show without the pony or the dog. I mean, there was nothing. In addition to the mitigated negative declaration, it's modeled on really unrealistic assumptions. I've been digging into this a little bit more, such as one assumption is that only three of the 38 truck bays would be in use at any given time. Well, I don't know why you need 38 truck bays if you're only going to use three of them at a time. Also, the noise impact is modeled on average decibels per hour. Well, I ask my neighbors here, what about that three second burst of an air break in the middle of the night? That's going to wake us up. But as an average over an hour, it's not going to seem like very much. So we would all like to ask for your help on this. We need a real careful scrutiny of what kind of impact this is going to have on our neighborhood. As you've seen already, I think, in some of the people speaking before you, and we know we're going to be going to the Planning Commission. We know that. with a lot of young families in this neighborhood who have scraped and saved to get into Orange, to be in a good neighborhood, and to stay here and build a good life. And I'm just really worried that the concerns of the community are not really being taken into consideration seriously. So we're asking for an environmental impact report, a full impact report, with realistic assumptions built in. Thank you.

Thank you, Betsy. Following Christina is Eric Knapp.

Hi, my name's Christina. I'm a proud owner here in Orange, but above all else, I am the fierce protector of my two sons and the over 450 innocent children who walk through the doors of Fletcher Academy every single day. I'm here to speak as well regarding the catastrophic Rexford proposed project at 2411 Glassell. a 300,000 square foot behemoth, 36 massive loading docks, a nonstop 24 hour, seven days a week industrial engine churning out over 800 heavy duty trucks daily. Numbers like that sound massive on paper, but numbers alone cannot capture the looming tragedy. I'm a visual person, so I like to see exactly what that means. I made this visual for you guys. This shows you how massive the proposed project is and how small Fletcher Academy is compared to it. Look at the distance. Fletcher Academy is a mere quarter mile from the proposed industrial giant. But look at what that truly means for our children. I ask you to look past the dollar signs and visualize the devastating real-world cost for these kids. Picture those 450-plus children running, playing soccer, and laughing with their friends, all while their developing lungs are forced to breathe in toxic, heavy diesel soot day after day. Imagine those students sitting outside, eating their lunch, walking to the school library, gathering for an outdoor assembly, completely unaware that every breath they take is permanently damaging their lifelong health. Think about those same kids and the heavy burden of chronic lifelong illnesses they will carry into adulthood simply because they went to school. This is a direct threat to the future of our children. A decision made for a corporate profit should never come at the expense of an innocent child's lifespan. I implore you, do not sacrifice their health, their safety, and the very futures of my children, along with the over 450 students, just to line a developer's pocket. Thank you.

Following Eric is Rachel Walnicki.

Hello. Okay, before I get started, I'd like to take at least 10 seconds to honor the victims of 9-11. And we spoke earlier before the meeting started. Sometimes we tend to forget those kind of things because we're stuck in the past. the issues that we have and we need to bring up that are important to all of us and i'd like to at least yield 10 seconds for that please i'm actually here on behalf of holiday skate center i'm a former dj over there i've done dj for about 25 years and today i'd like to actually talk about the silent majority the people who you'll never see the people who come and go and the people I got a chance to talk to over the years and how important a recreational facility like Holiday Skate is. I know it seems probably very minimal to some of the other issues on the table today, but it's few and far between places for kids to go to, families to go to. I'm sure some of you have been there before, probably had parties there before. And we'd like to ask again that you don't rezone the area for housing. And it helped us get a chance to take Holiday back again. You know, the people who like my girlfriend, Maria, over there, and Allison over there, her dad is the owner of the rink, and how important it is to the community. And, you know, my son used to race BMX, the Orange Y BMX, before that closed down. I mean, that was the mecca, the single greatest mecca of BMX racing. That was shut down. It was closed. I know there's a lot of issues that went on with that, but... when I thought of the rink as being maybe categorized as a place that could be saved as a national, or not national, but as a local, you know, treasure or whatever you want to call it, I thought, well, if the orange white didn't have a chance, what is holiday? So we're asking, it's a small thing, you know, it's something that, um, we can get back to the community, something that's important to, you know, to health, to, uh, to fitness, to lifestyles. And I can, I can give you a thousand stories, um, of the positive impact that, um, that the rink has on, uh, on the community in general. And, uh, we, like I mentioned last time I was here, you know, in the eighties, we had 10 to 12 rinks. Now we have one. And, uh, that can be gone too, and then we have none. And it's one less place that people can go to to have their families go and enjoy free time. That's a chance to detach, to get away, and just have something to do where they can meet people, they can just enjoy their time with all the stresses that we have to deal with every day. But I thank you for your time, and I hope that you will vote in favor of not redistricting. Thank you so much. Have a good night.

Thank you, Eric. Following Rachel is Mary Oberschlake.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council. My name is Rachel Rolnicki. I am back again to talk with you about the catastrophic 2411 Glassell Trucking Warehouse Facility. As an update, our potential Planning Commission hearing date has been postponed to the new proposed date of September 21, later this month. Since my last visit, I wanted to make you all aware of the story featured on pages one and two of the September Foothills Century Edition, titled Neighbors Say Proposed Truck Terminal is Too Close to Home. The article shares that my neighbors and community in District 3 oppose the project and states, residents cite air pollutants from idling diesel trucks, noise from continued semi-trailer traffic, safety concerns for children walking to Fletcher Elementary School, reduction in property values, and their overall damage to the quality of life they currently enjoy in their quiet neighborhood. While that is a great summary, I'd also like to focus on appropriateness. The currently proposed trucking facility project is not appropriate, immediately adjacent to a well-established single-family home neighborhood just a quarter mile from an elementary school. Further, their proposed operating hours of 24 hours a day Seven days a week, 365 days a year is not appropriate. Our neighbors would welcome appropriate development that would enhance our community, but this project, again, is not appropriate. Should this item come before you, my neighbors and I respectfully request your no vote on this inappropriate project that would harm the District 3 community. Thank you.

Thank you, Rachel. Following Mary is Craig Atanasio.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro Temp, city council members. I stand before you identified as that lady at the last council meeting. For clarification, anyone that needs to know, my name is Mary Evangeline Oberschleich. My nickname is Vangie. As for my bona fides, I live here. Orange has been our family home since 1974. My mother still lives in the house. they purchased that year. When I left my university back east, I enlisted in the U.S. Army from Orange. Yes, I'm officially recognized as a Vietnam-era veteran. I served as a instructor at the Quartermaster School at Fort Lee, Virginia, in the special training section. After my honorable discharge, I worked with the Department of Defense, known as the DOD, as a civilian employee in Europe for almost five years as the med case officer for the US Army in Nuremberg, Germany. I returned to Orange in the early to mid-1980s. I'm a homeowner in Orange. My children were raised here. My grandson lives here. I am an alumna of Chapman University School of Business and graduated as a Wall Street Journal Student of the Year. And I'm also a Grace Key recipient. After working for a Fortune 100 company upon graduation and then a startup for a few years, I walked away from corporate America, to become a registered nurse. I'm a graduate of Santa Ana's College School of Nursing. I was gainfully employed in the city at a major institution as a registered nurse for 30 years, 20 years in critical care. I spent 30 years in this life-affirming profession. I care about my children, my family, my community, and my country. I took an oath to defend the United States Constitution with my life. I still honor that oath. That's why I'm now active and involved in my community. But enough about me. I'm here tonight to set the record straight. A false accusation was made about indivisible orange after I spoke at the last council meeting. This cannot stand. We are just one of those over 2,000 registered groups in the USA with millions of individual members. The mission statement of Indivisible Orange can be found on our website at www.indivisibleorange.org. orange.org it states and i'm out of time so i urge everyone to go to the website i spent much time talking about me but it is important for people people to know that indivisible is orange is here and we are non-partisan thank you mary following craig atanasio is kevin reyes

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members. It's so good to be here. Thank you for your service. I kind of enjoy these public opinion baths. I get to hear the citizens bring forth their concerns and their requests. It's a very interesting experience and they're kind of like your eyes and ears out here in the community. On Friday morning, I had a very unusual experience. I spent that morning in front of the Santa Ana Federal Building with a couple of activists wearing a mask to conceal my identity, observing the ICE vehicles coming and going from that facility, where they would leave to prowl our communities and round up their victims and bring them back to the facility as their prize. There's actually a little place they call the cage where they bring them into. Within four hours, they are generally sent off to Atalanta or who knows where. And sometimes it takes weeks before their loved ones even know where they are. And I heard about this, I had to see it for myself. It's not due process, and this is against our Constitution. And this is personal to me. I know these people. Back in the 90s, before I was married, I traveled all over the state of Oaxaca, up and down the coast, throughout the Sierra Madre, seeing the Pueblos and the Mercados and getting to know the people. And it was the best experience of my life. I've never known people that were more gracious, more humble, they're kind. That's what kept me coming back year after year. I even got to know a family quite well, and I stayed with them a few times in their modest, humble one-room shack without running water, and it was a very enjoyable experience. We had a good time. They don't have a voice, and that's why I'm here tonight to speak for them. Deep down, they're no different than you or me. They want the same things we want for our loved ones and their children that you want for yours. They come here for opportunity for a better life for their families and we treat them like animals. We pay them to come here and we all benefit from their labor. And when I see how we are treating these people, I'm compelled to speak up. Never in my wildest dreams could I have believed that any of this could be possible. It is so disgraceful. We're living through one of the most shameful episodes of US history and we all sit here and we are compliant by our silence. And that silence is deafening. This is so wrong. There's not a man or woman in this room that can deny me that this is wrong. When your grandchildren grow up, what are you going to tell them? Where do you stand? We all have voices. So for the love of God and humanity, whenever you get a chance, show the leadership and courage to speak to this and say something. God bless America. Always have faith in the future. And thank you for your attention to this matter.

Thank you, Craig. Following Kevin Reyes is Ethan C.J. Ramirez.

Dear City Council, Mayor Slater, owners of the land, and anyone with an ear to hear. I've spoken at length about Holiday Skate Center and asked that you do not rezone the land on which it stands. And if the planning commission requests to rezone it, that you reject their proposal and instead authorize a historical commission to survey the land and district to see if they would like to become a historical district and receive benefits of becoming a certified localized government. A recent study showed that the Earth will exceed 1.5 degrees Celsius for the global warming threshold, and we can all feel the effects. Right now, we don't have a place to skate that is safe to skate in during intermittent weather. Skating at 100-degree weather at skate parks is just not ideal. The health is just really risky. And so we just ask that... we keep the place open, that we reopen Holiday Skate Center so that we could have a safe place to skate. The question is becoming, how are we gonna spend these final days if we do cross the threshold for global warming and then our time is up? Are we gonna spend it funding surveillance and corporations? Are we gonna be bending the knee to them? Or are we gonna be using these final moments, these final hours, these final days to really be focusing and funding what is beautiful in life and what celebrates it instead of what is destroying it? So I urge the city council, I know this is really small, but I urge you guys to please preserve Holiday Skate Center as a little piece of history that reminds us of a time when time wasn't up. And Please provide us places to skate that are away from the outside. If you guys could provide an indoor skate center somewhere for the residents of Orange, that will help tremendously, especially for the kids. We don't want kids out there in intermittent weather, especially as they're skating. And if the Planning Commission comes and proposes a rezoning of the land, I urge you guys to reject the proposal and to adopt the Historical Commission so that we could get the benefits of becoming a certified localized government. Thank you guys. Please keep us skating. God bless you all. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin.

And following Ethan is Elaine Bissonnette.

Good evening, members of the City Council, Mr. Mayor, and everyone else along. My name is Ethan C.J. Ramirez, and I'm here tonight because I would truly love to see Holiday Skate Center reopen as well, such as the other previous speakers. I've been going to Holiday Skate Center for about four years, well, before it had shut down recently, but before I ever even went there, I had been in a very dark place in my life, and I even attempted suicide. And while I survived, and although I was grateful to still be alive, I was still trying to figure out how to exactly enjoy being alive again. But then one day, Holiday Skate Center got recommended to me online. And I decided to go thinking like everyone else that it would be just another skating rink along the way. But I had no idea how important that place was, you know, about to become to me. The first time I went to Holiday Skate Center, I walked in as a stranger and I left as a family member. People welcomed me. People learned my name. I made friendships and I found people I genuinely looked forward to seeing. And every time I went back, I felt like I belonged there. That's why I want Holiday to reopen. I'm 21 years old. I don't think, I mean, I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I skate. Skating gives me something positive to do. It keeps me active, keeps me fit, and gives me a way to meet people and be involved in my community that I've spent so long trying to figure out how I can get a part of. Since holidays closed, I've tried finding other options. I've driven to Chino, I've gone to Fountain Valley, and while I'm grateful those rinks exist, unfortunately, they're a little further away and haven't exactly given me the same acceptance, friendships, or sense of community that I've had at holiday. Nothing has felt like Holiday Skate Center. And I know this isn't just my story. There are families who live nearby who have had somewhere to bring their children. There are young people with so much potential who have had somewhere to spend their time. And there are employees who have spent years welcoming us, learning our names, making that place special. And there are generations of people who grew up at the rink who had made memories there. Holiday Skate Center has given us and especially the city of Orange, nearly 53 years of those memories. And that's why I want to see come back. I want to see those doors open again. I want to see families skating again. I want to see the people who made holidays special and come back together. And I want the new generation to have the opportunity to create their own memories there. It's a part of Orange's community because for nearly 53 years, Holiday Skate Center hasn't just been a part of the history. It's been a part of everything. from the dawn of this city's existence. So I'm asking you sincerely, please just give Holiday's Gate Center the opportunity to reopen, give this community a chance to come together again as it once was before. Thank you and God bless you all.

Thank you, Ethan. And Elaine Bissonnette.

Good evening, Mayor and council members and Mayor Pro Tem. So I live at 2927 East Walnut alongside of the river trail by Grahova Park. I'm on the side of it. And we've been experiencing, we have a lot of senior citizens that live on my street. And we do get a lot of drag racing down our street. And today, right before this meeting, I realized there was a council meeting tonight. So I just wanted to come down here because I'm just really concerned about my neighbors because they're seniors and they all just, walked out and just got scared because this guy was drag racing around the end of the cul-de-sac and just screeching his tires, going around and around and around. And this has just been ongoing. We've had several incidents where cars have gone down and hit some of the residents' cars. We've also had another incident last year where the vehicle that was driving down Walnut flipped, and thank God he didn't hit the car, but he totaled his car. So we've had, I've lived there probably about seven years, and I was born and raised here, so we're, you know, very grateful homeowners of Orange. So this is kind of getting to be a little, you know, just old. And I'm requesting today if we can get some kind of speed bumps put there so then that way we can't have these kids coming drag racing down our street because it's just getting really bad. And... Yeah. And along with that and the homelessness coming down our street, you know, and we just have to guard each other and protect each other in our neighborhood. So I'm kind of standing here on behalf of my neighbors and myself. So and I do have pictures, if you'd like to. I opened up a case on this because it was pretty. He was just the guy was just probably seconds away from hitting my husband coming home. So if you'd like to take a look at the pictures and the case number I opened today, I'd be willing to share them with you or send them on email if you'd like.

Thank you. I'm sure the gentleman over there would be happy to talk to you.

Thank you.

All right. Are there any remote speakers?

No, Mayor.

Okay. Thank you very much. We will move on to our consent calendar. All items on the consent calendar are considered routine and are enacted by one motion approving the recommended action listed on the agenda. Any member of the city council, staff, or the public may request an item be removed from the consent calendar for discussion or separate action. If any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council on any consent calendar item, please raise your hand. If you are calling in, please press star nine to raise your hand. I'll first look to my colleagues to see if there's any items that anyone wishes to pull. I'm thinking probably not. All right. Anyone from the public? Okay. We have a motion from Council Member Dimitriou to approve the consent calendar with a second from Council Member Gutierrez. I'll call for the vote.

Council Member Dimitriou.

That's right. Yes.

Mayor Slater.

Yes.

Council Member Barrios. Yes. Council Member Gillenhammer.

Yes.

Council Member Gutierrez. Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Bilodeau.

Yes. Thank you. That is approved unanimously. All right, reports from Mayor Slater. I have none this evening. Council members, I know we have one from Council Member Gutierrez, correct? Is anyone else before that? All right, Council Member Gutierrez.

All right, so my business highlight this month actually changed because I attended the street fair, and this business was sitting with their fantastic mobile out there, and I said, wow, I completely had forgotten about this business that's in my district adjacent to In-N-Out. So my highlight is on Durham FX. If you go to the next slide. So Durham FX is located at 3443 East Chapman Avenue next door to In-N-Out. at the Stater Brothers Shopping Center. And they opened their doors here in Orange in June of 2024. And I recall that you attended their grand opening, Mayor. And I wasn't able to attend that day. So I was very intrigued by their mobile that was out at the Circle this weekend and stopped and talked to them. And I really wanted to make sure that I highlight this business that has been here now for the past two years. If you go to the next slide, it's a med spa. So it offers aesthetic procedures and skin treatments. And it has... RNs, PAs, a medical doctor. So they definitely have the appropriate things. And nurse practitioners, as I think I said that. So good service amount. The amount of services that they have It was incredible. Their booklet just had a lot of stuff there. So I just wanted to highlight this business. And if you go to the last slide, this is where they were at on Circle this weekend and with their fantastic big mobile there. So visit them. They're open seven days a week, Monday through Saturday, 9 to 6, and Sunday, 10 to 5, for any of your interest.

advanced skin care treatments that are very non-invasive as well so i just wanted to highlight that business in my district there you go thank you council member that was a great uh great choice and um all right and one last try anyone else okay moving on uh item six any ab1234 reports any council members Okay, item seven, reports from city manager.

Nothing to report tonight, sir.

All right. Then administrative reports, item 8.1, initial review of the preliminary 13-year financial sustainability and investment strategy. And Mr. Morgan has jumped.

No, he's leaving? No, I'll be providing the report tonight. I'm sorry, I'm moving the microphone. I hear some static. There we go. Mayor and Council, you have the full report and a detailed financial model behind it, but I don't want us to get lost debating individual line items in a spreadsheet that will inevitably change over the next 13 years. This discussion also does not start from a blank sheet of paper. Council has already adopted the Rebuild Orange Local Control and Accountability Resolution. What I'm bringing forward tonight is a preliminary long-term framework for carrying those commitments forward if additional revenues become available. What I need from council is direction on whether this strategy organizes those commitments appropriately and whether it gives us the right balance between long-term discipline and annual flexibility. The commitment is to the priorities, accountability, and measurable outcomes not to a predetermined list of expenditures through 2040. This is the first thing I wanted to establish is the scale. For planning purposes, we're initially looking at $40 million per year in additional revenue from measures I and J. Measure I is a temporary and has a 13-year life. Using our current assumptions, that produces approximately 584 million over the 13-year period. This is significant, but the 584 million is not a spending target, and it is not a 13-year appropriation. Revenue will change. Costs will change. The economy will change. Our liabilities and service demands will change. Projects that look important today may become less important and needs we do not know about today will emerge. So the model establishes the scale of the opportunity and lets us test whether the framework is financially feasible. And the annual budget process determinations how resources are actually used. This is really the most important slide tonight. These priorities are not starting with this strategy. They build directly from Rebuild Orange, which council adopted as its commitment to financial discipline, public safety, infrastructure, economic vitality, accountability, and measurable results. The strategy organizes those commitments into four long-term priorities. Strengthen Orange's finances, preserve public safety, and enhance city services, repair and invest in community infrastructure, and grow Orange's economy. The fourth priority is especially important because Measure I is temporary. Part of our job during the 13-year period should be strengthening the underlying economic and revenue base that remains after Measure I expires. So I'm not asking council to invent four new priorities tonight. I'm asking whether this is the right way to organize the commitments and use them to guide the individual financial decisions that follow. I also don't want this to be so high level that it sounds like we haven't done the financial work. We have. Staff built a detailed model and put preliminary numbers around the priorities in no need so we can test whether the strategy is financially realistic. At the category level, the model includes approximately $137 million for preserving public safety and enhancing city services, approximately $135 million for community infrastructure, and approximately 14 million for economic vitality. With the financial priority, the model includes major assumptions such as 65 million in city contributions towards general fund reserves, 39 million for pension stabilization, and 28 million for OPEB liabilities. These are meaningful planning assumptions. They are not arbitrary, but they are also not guaranteed allocations. The model only tests the feasibility. Rebuild Orange and the four priorities provide the policy direction. So I want to spend a little time on the financial priority because some of the numbers are significant. This isn't simply about putting money into reserves. We have existing financial weaknesses to repair and long-term risks we should prepare for while we have the capacity to do so. On general fund reserves, the model assumes $5 million annually with a long-term target of 50% of general fund operating expenditures. Over 13 years, that is $65 million in city contributions. Investment earnings can further strengthen that position, although actual returns will vary. For pensions, the model currently provides up to three million annually of planning capacity for pension liability management and stabilization. We are already paying approximately $16 million annually in pension obligation bonds through 2044, while the city's CalPERS UAL and funded status continues to change with investment performance, actuarial experience, and other factors. The UAL needs to be actively managed rather than funded at a predetermined spending number. Each year, as CalPERS updates its actuarial information, we should evaluate the UAL, the funded status, required employee contributions, investment performance, and our long-term pension outlook. From there, the question is, how much additional pension capacity is warranted, and how should it be used? An accelerated payment to CalPERS can directly reduce the UAL, or we can establish a 115 pension stabilization trust which can preserve greater flexibility by setting aside and investing assets for future pension costs. The answer may be one, maybe the other, combination, or no additional pension contribution in a year when the city's pension position does not warrant it. I would like to utilize the city's investment advisory committee to evaluate those options and make a recommendation based on the actuarial and financial conditions at the time. That recommendation can then be presented to the citizens oversight committee as part of the review and ultimately brought to the city council for consideration. The objective is not to spend 37 million or reach a predetermined section 115 balance. The objective is to actively manage Orange's pension exposure and maintain a strong funded position over time. For OPEB, the objective is to move forward towards a 100% funding of retiree health liability and build invested assets that can eventually offset our future benefit costs. The model currently uses $28 million as a planning assumption. Each year, the actuarial valuation funded status, trust performance, and financial conditions should tell us whether the contribution should be higher or lower. This is another area I would like to work through with the Investment Advisory Committee. We also need to repair funds that are already under pressure. Workers' compensation is projected to end fiscal year 26 approximately $12.7 million negative. The employee accrued liability fund is projected approximately 5.6 million negative. General liability has also moved slightly negative and currently has an operating imbalance. The important point is that none of these models total the ultimate target. Fiscal health is the ultimate target. If a fund recovers sooner rather than anticipated, we should redirect that capacity rather than continue funding simply because a number appeared on this 2026 spreadsheet. Again, the objective is to strengthen Orange's balance sheet. Priority number two. So this is the second priority is preserving public safety and enhancing city services. The purpose of the 13 year strategy is to not to lock in a staffing plan today. It is to establish that protecting and improving the services residents rely on is the long term priority. That includes police, fire and emergency medical response, but it also includes libraries, recreation, neighborhood services, emergency preparedness, technology, and the employees who deliver those services. Each year, council would determine the appropriate level of investment through the public budget process based on service demands, staffing needs, performance, available resources, and our organizational capacity. The commitment is to preserve public safety and enhance city services. The exact staffing levels, equipment, technology, and investments remain during the annual budget decisions. The third priority is repairing and investing in community infrastructure. Orange has streets, sidewalks, parks, playgrounds, fire stations, libraries, public buildings, streetlights, traffic system, landscaping, and other public assets that require continuing reinvestment. The model contains examples of those investments, but I do not want a project list prepared in 2026 to dictate what we do 10 years from now. Professional assets should or professional assessments, excuse me, should increasingly drive those decisions. The facility condition assessment, parks master plan, payment management program, IT strategic plan, and other asset management work will give us better information about condition, urgency, lifecycle cost, and project readiness. As that information improves, the allocation should change. But the priority remains constant. Repair what we have, protect the community's investment, and make lasting improvements throughout Orange. The fourth priority is growing Orange's economy. And that is particularly important because Measure I is temporary. Grant Thornton's report concluded that Orange's long-term financial stability requires more than cost reduction. It requires accelerated economic development and revenue growth. Their work identified the need for a long-term development vision, stronger development capacity, streamlined processes, investor outreach, and sustained economic development investment. Economic development does not happen overnight. A business we recruit today or a development opportunity we begin working on now may take years before it produces meaningful ongoing revenue. This is why the 13-year horizon matters. If Measure I expires after 13 years, which it does, Orange should enter year 14 with a stronger underlying economy and a stronger ongoing revenue base than it has today. The specific opportunities will change, but the commitment to economic development should not. This is the test I think that matters at the end of the strategy. Will Orange actually be in a better position? And I mean that across all four priorities, not just the balance sheet. Financially, we should have stronger reserves, better funded liability, and greater capacity to absorb a recession or an emergency. Public safety and city services should be supported by sustainable organizational capacity. Our streets, parks, facilities, and other public assets should be in better condition. Our local economy should be generating a stronger revenue base as Measure I expires. That does not mean every liability disappears or every infrastructure need is completed. Conditions will continue to change. The test is whether Orange has greater capacity to manage its obligations, maintain its assets, and deliver services without destabilizing the organization. We should enter year 14 financially stronger, better maintained, better served, and better positioned for the future. This is the implementation philosophy behind the strategy. We plan 13 years out, but we make decisions one year at a time. Every year we will update the financial forecast. What revenue actually came in? What are our reserves? What happened with pension, UAL, and OPEB? What is the conditions of our liability funds? What have we learned about buildings, parks, streets, and other assets? Our information should get better every single year. And as our information gets better, our decisions will get better. Staff will bring the recommendations back through the public budget process, through the investment advisory committee, through the independent citizens oversight committee, and council makes the actual investment decisions. That gives us a long-term destination without sacrificing the flexibility necessary to manage this investment plan. This is the distinction I want council and the public to understand. Rebuild Orange establishes the commitments that should remain consistent. Fiscal discipline, public safety, infrastructure, economic development, accountability, and measurable results. This strategy organizes those commitments into four long-term priority and plans from the beginning for the Measure I sunset. What remains fluid is the implementation. individual projects, annual funding levels, timing and sequencing, financial mechanisms, and how much capacity we leave unallocated. It would be a mistake to program every projected dollar today. We need the ability to respond to recessions, emergencies, construction inflation, changing liabilities, service demands, and needs we cannot anticipate in 2026. The projects change, the disciplines and direction do not. This is what makes this a 13-year strategy rather than a 13-year budget. So that brings me back to the direction I'm looking for council tonight. First, do these priorities appropriately carry out the commitments to rebuild Orange? Second, are these the right long-term financial objectives? And then third, what are we missing or where should there be greater or lesser emphasis? The numbers you see in the model represent staff's preliminary attempt to put resources behind these priorities. If council believes we should place greater emphasis on financial stability, we can do that. If council wants greater emphasis on capital investment, public safety, or economic development, we can adjust the model. That's exactly the kind of direction I'm looking for tonight. Guidance, not percentages or individual allocations. I'm not asking council to approve a fixed 13 year spending plan. The strategy is intended to remain fluid and it will continue to be refined as we complete further analysis, receive community input, investment advisory committee input and recommendations from the independent citizens oversight committee. And the conditions are going to change over time. The priorities provide the direction. The model shows our current thinking about how to allocate the resources. THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION AND I'M HAPPY TO DIVE INTO THE STRATEGY AND OR ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT COUNCIL MIGHT HAVE.

THANK YOU, CITY MANAGER. I KNOW YOU AND YOUR STAFF PUT A LOT OF TIME INTO THIS. I'M VERY IMPRESSED. WE DO HAVE ONE PUBLIC SPEAKER, BUT ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY MANAGER AT THIS POINT? COUNCIL MEMBER GILLENHAMMER, ANY QUESTIONS?

No, I can wait for the public speaker and go after.

All right. Very well. Before we begin with Reggie, if any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council, please raise your hand. If you're calling in, please press star nine to raise your hand. We'll hear in-person speakers first, then move on to remote speakers. If you are participating remotely, a city clerk will announce when your three minutes are up. then you will be muted.

Take it away. Hi, I like this plan. It's a strategy, it's a policy document, and it clearly shows that this money would not be used to backfill operations It's to address long-term needs, including rebuilding reserves, paying down some of the debt, and rebuilding capacity, both in terms of public safety, I'm going to call it service to the public activities and facilities, and economic development. I like it, and I understand the idea behind it, where We agree on an overall direction, and then year by year, there are decisions made using what I call the large group method, where we have the city council and the various committees that will work on this to come to consensus on what we should be doing, and then there's oversight of it. That way, the following year, we will learn from it. And I like the idea that that the point is once the sales tax increment sunsets, we're in a better position both infrastructure-wise, financially, and economic development-wise to move forward. And that we're using this money to better ourselves. We're not using it as a crutch. So I really appreciate the time and thought that went into this. It's more difficult to put something together like this than what people realize. So thank staff for their work. And again, I like this plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Reggie. All right, that is all for the public speakers. Are there any remote speakers?

No, Mayor.

Thank you very much. All right, we'll bring it back to the council. Council Member Gillenhammer, you're first.

Thank you, Mayor. Jared, I just want to start by commending you for the thought that went behind this. I think it's really well done, really well thought out. I appreciate your efforts in this one. You asked four questions. I'll try and answer them while I have my time. First question is, are the four priorities right? I think they are. So the four priorities we have here, strengthen Orange's finances, protect public safety and essential services, repair maintain and beautify orange to the infrastructure and then grow oranges economy. So strengthening finances overall service level infrastructure and economic development I believe are the four correct priorities for how to invest this money. What should receive greater or lesser emphasis. This is where I think we need to ensure that a lion's share of this money goes into strengthening our financial position. So the emphasis being heavier in strengthening Orange's financial position and then some level of infrastructure. I just will throw out a suggestion here that when historically these have passed, there has been a corresponding large expenditure in the year and two years following these of increased headcount and large pay increases. I think that we just need to be wary of what that looks like for our city if this was to pass. I would actually recommend no material increase in headcount for the first four years relative to the sales tax. If the TOT passes, assuming that's a regular tax that will hold in perpetuity, we can look at that $3 million for... headcount or salary increases. But I believe the majority of these funds should go into refilling reserve accounts. So if we talked about some of our liability accounts, workers comp, I think that money should go there. And then I think the remainder of the money should go into debt repayment without repaying the debt. Specifically, what I mean is getting this money into our accounts to make 4% to 5% interest, holding it there for any potential pension shortfalls and assessing where we're at. We were due to do that for four years and have the lion's share of that money sit, go into reserve accounts, continue to build the efficiencies into our business that we need to. We have the ability to have upwards of $150 million making 4% to 5%. it gives us a completely different position versus finding ways to spend a lot of it. It also gives us a buffer for any potential pension impacts in the future. I think we should be paying attention to the economic development piece, Jared. So my assumption here is spending here represents building a bigger team. I align with that. I think that makes a ton of sense. And I think your investment here, we won't, to your call out of not getting into the line items. I think, you know, just understanding the entitlement and how you spend there and what will be the impact of forward-looking economic development. I think we need to spend there. And then I also think from an infrastructure perspective, wherever we have small adjustments that we need to make in overall streets, sidewalks, we should fill those. We should catch up on any components there. And over time, as we build up reserves, we build up the ability to be a shock absorber for any adjustment in the economic outlook. But we spend the next four years actively focused on the things that are going to strengthen the baseline of our city. Your third question, or your last question, is what should have Orange accomplished with Measure 1 expires? If we do this right, we've done the work over the next four years to focus heavily on tech and AI to build improved services and give efficiencies back to the residents. We've invested appropriately in specific things that are going to drive long-term sustainable economic development. We've covered the shortfall from an infrastructure perspective. Potentially, we've looked at larger infrastructure projects that we wanted to build or pull forward. And ultimately, we have a large reserve cash balance. The one thing I will recommend that we do not do is pay off the pension obligation bond. It's currently paying 2.5% approximately on it. We're much better holding the cash and making the 4% or 4.5% we can make in one of our other funds. So those are my initial thoughts. I appreciate it, Jared.

Thank you very much, Councilmember. Is there anything the city manager wanted to respond to?

No, I appreciate the comments, and I would agree not paying off the pension obligation bonds at this point in time. Okay, very well. Council Member Barrios.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I do want to say thank you to the city manager. He and I have talked about this a couple of times and gone over this. One of the things that... I think we've failed to ask and it really concerns me is that if the sales tax measure passes and it then enables this particular funding program to fill in some of the reserves, some of them which are dangerously low if not non-existent, and then do some of these new things, which is great, that we have not addressed the underlining structural problems in City Hall and how we do business and how we operate. So I noticed, Mr. City Manager, that you had down here an organizational assessment. And what I think that that needs to be pulled out separately, and because you have a few bits and pieces of this in other places, in some of the other buckets, but I think it should be highlighted as something something that we would prioritize as a change agent for the city, because these things are highly important. If we are not telling and showing voters that we are not only committed to being fiscally sound, but also fiscally different going forward, at the end of 13 years, yes, we'll have these lovely reserves sitting there, but we will just spend them down again, and 20 years from now, we'll be right back here, because we will not have fundamentally changed the way we do business. And you and I have talked at great length about a myriad of different areas that we keep, oh, look, under another rock, there's this. And now we have that. And so it keeps coming up over and over again that structurally we have a lot of unsound practices that need to be fixed and addressed. So my recommendation would be take some of those things and we'd pull them out as a separate priority and put them together. And then as you bring those forward, that you add some depth to them about what do they mean. And that would include, you have something under grow our local economy, you have something else under the reserve public safety. Anything that's about assessing our operations, improving our efficiencies, just as Councilmember Gillenhammer said, really taking a hard look at how we do our day-to-day operations. Because all of that leads to everything else. Do we need all of this? What do we actually need and should we prioritize spending money on if we don't need 10 but we need 9, for example? So that would be my feedback for you.

Council Member Dimitriou.

Thank you, Mr. City Manager. I agree with the comments of both the previous council members, but One thing I would like to see, and maybe I'm raining on the parade, but we have a presentation on the 13-year outlook if the sales tax fails and what potentially could be cut, what recommendations, what service levels will be like in the city. projects that'll be either canceled or delayed significantly. This is a good blueprint if it passes, but I really think that to have a complete picture, I think we need the corresponding conversation as well. And I'll leave it at that, thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Gutierrez.

I thought the same thing, Councilmember Demetrio. That's exactly what I thought, so. We're on the same wavelength there. But I do appreciate the hard work. This obviously took a lot of time from the staff And from you, Jared, this is very well done, very well thought out. And that's all I kept thinking as I was reading it. This is just so if, if, if, but I don't hear the opposite side of what if not. So what are my two possibilities, my two scenarios is what I really would like to see as well. But I do agree with what Council Member Gillehammer said and Council Member Barrios. I think that operational assessment, organizational assessment is important. Whether the measure passes or not, we're going to need to do that as well. And I agree, strengthening our finances should be our number one priority here. And in order to have that sustainability in year 14, that economic growth needs to have occurred as well. So those are the two areas that I see that are important. But I do worry if it does not pass, and we haven't shown what that would look like. Cuz I did read in your staff report that should it not pass, that you would come back in January and give us a presentation. And I think that waiting until January says it's right here. Yeah. The city council was previously committed to revisiting the budget in January 2027 if the proposed revenue measures are not approved. Staff would return at that time with an updated financial forecast and option for aligning ongoing expenditures with available revenues. And I think waiting until January might be too far off. I think it would be very important to see that now. So thank you.

Thank you. And Mayor Pro Tembillero.

Briefly, I wanted to say that I agree with Councilman Demetrio. I think we have to also plan for the sales tax not passing in terms of what our contingencies are and what potential cuts we have to make. This is a great step, though, in terms of planning signaling to the public how their tax dollars would be used in the event that the majority support the sales tax. But nevertheless, I think we have to plan for all contingencies. Thank you.

And thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. So I concur with all of the comments. I think everyone had some good points, but I'm an optimist. I think we're going to, the voters of Orange are going to approve the sales tax measure. However, I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE A CONTINGENCY PLAN IN THE EVENT THAT IT WILL NOT. AND I DO AGREE THAT WE NEED TO GET ON THAT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, SHOULD WE NEED TO. BUT HOPEFULLY WE WON'T. AT ANY RATE, I LIKE THE PRIORITIES AS YOU'VE LAID THEM OUT. ALSO, I AGREE WITH COUNCILMEMBER GILLENHAMER I don't like debt and I don't like things that make debt, so that would be probably a good focus in my book to continue to really see how much we can and rapidly we can do that. But at the same time, the residents are going to want to see results from the extra revenue. So I think you've laid it out beautifully. And again, I thank you and your staff for doing that as well as all the department has, because I know they all had input in this. So, so thank you. So this evening, you're just going to take our input, I assume. And I also want to ask you, And I don't know if this is the appropriate time or not. I'd like to hear more about the city's education process with regards to the initiatives and how we would be rolling that out. I see the city attorney looking askance.

Mr. Mayor, just a brief comment. I just want to ensure that whatever is discussed has been properly agendized for the public to be able to participate.

That's probably not appropriate, then, you would assume. Yeah.

EDUCATION IS ONGOING. INSTAGRAM, I BELIEVE, THIS WEEK, OR MAYBE IT WAS LAST WEEK, POSTED A SERIES OF TOWN HALLS. WE WERE IN THIS MEETING WITH, I DON'T KNOW, OR THIS ROOM, EXCUSE ME, 30 TO 40 RESIDENTS LAST THURSDAY NIGHT, I BELIEVE. AND THE SPENDING PLAN, THE INVESTMENT STRATEGY, FOLDING IT IN HERE, WILL BE VERY MUCH PART OF THE EDUCATION, RIGHT? WE WANT TO HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY. WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES? WHERE DO YOU WANT TO SEE THIS GOING? I APPRECIATE THE DIRECTION TONIGHT. WHAT I'M HEARING IS PUT A GREATER EMPHASIS ON STRENGTHENING OUR FINANCIAL POSITION. ECON DEVELOPMENT REMAINS A TOP AND MAJOR PRIORITY. CATCH UP ON INFRASTRUCTURE, MODERNIZE TECH AI, ELEVATE THE ORGANIZATIONAL ASSESSMENTS AND RELATED ASSESSMENTS And then we can certainly add more depth before the four priorities. And then I can work on developing the failure scenario now, should Measure I and Measure J not pass. And we can certainly return before the January date. The January date, I believe, was set during our budget process this year. So that is something that we can roll out and begin discussing in the next meeting or two. No problem.

And I'll finally add. A top priority for me is we've got to stop the bleeding at the police department. So that's just unacceptable in my book. We're down 15 officers and I heard this weekend over and over parking enforcement and traffic enforcement are getting the low priority, which I get, but that's something we need to restore. Council Member Barrios.

Mr. City Manager, one of the things we haven't talked about, and I just don't think it's something that we've even given any thought to, but in terms of grow out our local economy, is there any value or should we be kind of brainstorming at all whether or not we need to put in a line item there so that we can, not unlike what you have here with the vehicle incentive rebate program. I'm sorry. That's okay. We should be looking at something where we're setting aside some funds that would allow us to attract basically a whale or that would allow you to put something aside if we needed to do a sales tax rebate in order to entice, you know, an exceptional company, corporation, sales tax revenue generator into the city. Is that something we could do or something we could look at? Just really thinking outside the box.

No, thinking out loud, right? We do have sales tax sharing agreements. SC Fuels, for example, Brea, city of Brea, has been all over the news with Costco recently. Let me noodle on that one, see if there's a line item that we can specifically call out. I think part of the outreach is knocking on their door, right? There's one of the line items was looking at our sales tax leakage, and then I want to even consider bringing on a firm that will help. Usually it's a three-year commitment because economic development takes time, but I hear what you're saying. We can consider adding a line item, but honestly, I don't know if it makes sense. The sales tax sharing agreement is another mechanism that we will have to follow. And usually as they come in, let's say Costco, for example, generates $5 million a year in annual sales tax revenue. It would be a negotiation split with them. We'll give you 50-50, 80-20. I don't know what that is. I don't necessarily know if that requires a line item in the budget. But let me think about that. And as we continue to refine the plan over the next 13 years, maybe that's a line item.

And it can be considered like a recruitment line item, something of that nature. But just something to think about that we haven't discussed at all.

Well, great discussion all around council. And city manager, you're good? Are we going to approve it? We're just gonna- Mr. Mayor, there is no need for a motion.

There is no need for a motion at this time. The recommended action was simply to provide direction, which the council has provided to the city.

All right, very well. Everyone all in? Looks like it. Okay, the next regular city council meeting will be held on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2026 at 6 p.m. in the council chamber. Closed session begin at 5 p.m. if necessary. We're adjourned.