Commission - workshop

The Beshears for being here this morning. And our other guests, welcome. Ms. Gina's about to kick this party off with us this morning as we look at how we need to update our Unified Land Development Code, aka ULDC. So thanks for joining us. And Gina, the floor is yours, my lady.

Thank you.

It's bringing it up to current law. Current growth patterns, Lynn Haven has grown, and there's different patterns that we can discuss a little bit later. Infrastructure needs, as you know, there's changing infrastructure. We're running into that on a constant basis in our day-to-day operations. infrastructure needs redevelopment priorities, annexation goals, environmental constraints, and emerging high resource demand uses. Now that's a big one because that includes AI data centers. So that's what we're talking about when we're talking about modernization. now aligning so we have we want to align make the two documents the comprehensive plan and the united unified land development code work together that's our whole goal that's the purpose that of the state of florida they want they demand to have that it is a requirement to have the comprehensive plan it is state mandated and from that we are to create a unified land development code that helps us that aligns with the comprehensive plan and helps us in our day-to-day operations it helps us the here and now to say what land use what can happen on property within the city of lane lynn haven so uh The comprehensive plan sets the policy direction. I want you to remember that. Comprehensive plan sets the direction for our long-term goals. And the ULDC implements the direction through zoning development, zoning development standards, procedures, and review criteria. So that's what we're trying to align. Now we also want, in this whole process, we want to clarify. Clarifying code is imperative because we want to make sure that we are creating a defensible code. So we don't run into, well, your code says this and that doesn't apply to my property. So making the documents easier to understand and apply by separating future land use map policy from zoning regulation. Now, I was here. I participated. Ray is here. He was the consultant that did our last comprehensive plan update. He's done work for us in the past. He knows our code. He spoke to you. In that workshop, previous workshop, you asked for direction. I was on, you know, after I talked to him and when I first got started, I was like, yeah, we have a zoning map. That was one of your questions. Do we need a zoning map? a secondary map and that kind of is what has spurred this conversation, right? Do we need a zoning map? We have one, but it's one and the same. It's a single layer. Our comprehensive plan and our ULDC is a single layer map. And I'm going to explain that in more detail because that's where things get a little confusing. So we want to apply by separating that future land use policy from the zoning regulation, removing inconsistent terminology, and improving predictability for staff, applicants, residents, and decision makers. It can be so hard where you're sitting to make a decision on an application when our code is not clear and concise. I've ran into this throughout my entire career. Cities have to maintain an evolving, updating code, especially for staff, because then we run into, you know, it gets applied and it's not clear, and so it creates this ambiguity, this confusion, not only for us as staff. How do I, as the planning director, apply a code that... says something completely different than what we've been doing. And so we're trying to clean that up. That's the whole purpose of this. so i'm going to go through so that's clarifying to clarify so you will see you you'll hear me say this throughout um but i want to make sure that that is that is our goal is to modernize align and clarify the comprehensive plan and the uldc and that is to help us work together as a whole unit within the city to make our processes more seamless So as we go, so we're going to go through this slide by slide. So what the purpose of this is, it's to set the tone that the workshop, so this is, I made a mistake on that. The workshop is for policy direction, not final adoption. So my proposal is going to be twofold. So We want to see. I lost my points here. I'm behind. So our primary goal. I'm up here. Yeah, thank you. I'm like sitting back here looking at this. It's this line, this cross in the middle that's confusing me. And my pages aren't lining up. So our primary goal is to make the comprehensive plan the city's long-range policy plan. So policy, the long-range policy and the ULDC, the Unified Land Development Code, the city's regulatory tool. This is consistent throughout the entire nation. Most states have or require a comprehensive plan or general plan in some states. So they require cities, counties, these jurisdictions to create a comprehensive plan. That is our high-level goal. So future land use categories, maximum density and intensities, growth, infrastructure, compatibility, annexation, and environmental policies. That is the purpose of the comprehensive plan. When I was working in Utah, they added... they added a requirement to do a resource portion of the general plan or comprehensive plan the state did. And so all the cities and counties were racing to get that done because there was a deadline and there was funding and all sorts of stuff. But it taught me that going through that process, it taught me how imperative it is to have those long-range policies. We are looking at making a decision regarding AI and data centers. You have a moratorium now, and now is the time to put those wheels into action to make those changes in our code to ensure that we have those and preserve those resources for the city and the residents. I've visited data centers, and we're going to probably get into that a little bit more Metadata in Eagle Mountain, Utah. Huge facility. Incredible if you ever get an opportunity to visit an AI center or data center. It is very fascinating. But I also come from a background where my husband's public works. And so understanding the resources that it takes to run those data centers is enormous. And I believe you have... picked up on that and have got on that bandwagon. So we're going to discuss that. That's the whole purpose of comprehensive plans. But how do we facilitate that? So going to the next thing is the ULDC and an official zoning map. And we don't have to go through, we do have to do an amendment to the comprehensive plan because the comprehensive plan does state that the ULDC or the future land use map is our land use district's map. It's one and the same. It's a single layer. So that can be very confusing because you have future land use categories where it's maximum densities, intensities, all of those types of things. And then you have regulatory districts. And we've been running that way. Vicki's been doing a phenomenal job. She's been here for, what, 10 years? And, you know, but as we're going through it and things have changed. And so now we have this patchwork of code, a patchwork of the comprehensive plan. And we need to outline those procedures and requirements clearer. Again, we need to clarify. We need to align the two documents. I think that's the intent in the beginning, and it worked in the beginning to have that single layer map. But again, we need that distinction because it helps say, okay, when we can keep it the same, that's one thing to understand. We can keep the land use districts, the names the same as what's in the... comprehensive plan, but we need to call them zoning districts. That, it just helps separate those two documents, but it still keeps them aligned. It still keeps it, it modernizes it and it clarifies the language so much better. uh dimensional stance so underneath all of these zones is zoning districts and permitted uses and then dimensional standards and review procedures parking landscape buffers compatibility and site design The ULDC and zoning map is implementation. It is to provide implementation and how staff is to apply that. So, you know, the ULDC says that the city manager is the director, right? And he can designate someone, the planning director, to facilitate that and implement that code. And that's what we're doing. As I'm going through it, though, there's some real challenges with it. So So recommended overall approach. This is what I am recommending to you. It is a two-track process, keeps the work moving while maintaining policy alignment. So we're still keeping that alignment. Currently, we are under a deadline. It was 90, I think it was 90 days. We had 180 days, so six months. You have already done... two readings of the comprehensive plan, the most recent comprehensive plan update or amendment. And Ray is the one that facilitated that under his scope. He was to do the analysis and provide us with the data and all of that needed to do that. One thing that we missed when we submitted it to the state and then the first time or it's maybe first or second time, but what came back a couple of times is a map series. That map series includes all of our future land use map, environmental flood, wetlands. I mean, there's a series of maps And I have Bay County working on that. That should be updated. I was hoping we'd get it this week. He said last week. So I'm waiting on that so that we can bring that back to you for an official second reading. and get it back to the state before the end of October. So my goal is to have it to you by the first meeting in August pending those maps are correct. I will have Ray help me make sure those maps are correct and that it aligns with the data that he provided to create those maps. So he gave all the tools to Bay County to help us get those maps because Bay County is our GIS administrator. So that work is already underway. So we are trying to keep current with what's going on. Another thing to add to that, which I didn't put it in the slideshow, is that we have We have the sections in the ULDC that need to be updated to be lawful under the state legislation that came down two years ago. One of that is that preliminary plats, final plats, any kind of plat no longer comes to the Planning Commission or City Council for decision. That is to be staff level approval. So essentially the city manager who has designated me to be that deciding authority. Which is fine because that means that I'm going to take, and I've started creating it, a checklist of what is in the ULDC, the requirements of the ULDC. It's an administrative process, not a legislative process. And that's essentially what the state is asking is that those plats get reviewed at staff level. It takes it off your plate. So long as it meets all of the criteria of the ULDC, it should get approved. There has to be something wrong with it that is... in regard to health, safety, and welfare of the residents, if there's something, the reason why it can't be approved. So it could be environmental, but there has to be substantial evidence. I want you to remember that. There has to be, in order to deny an application that has a set of regulations under the ULDC, you have to have evidence, substantial evidence proving that it does not meet the ULDC regulations.

Go ahead. When you're talking about the plots and that, are you talking about when someone wants to...

So what it is, is a plat is the recorded document that creates a meets and bounds boundary line, a legal description of a lot or parcel, um, that has standards. So preliminary plat and final plat, for say, for example, a subdivision of 200 homes, that has to be platted. It has to be drawn out. It has to show what roads or what property is going to be dedicated to the city. And it has to meet all of the engineering requirements It has to meet all of the requirements of our technical standards manual, infrastructure. It has to meet all of those things. There is a list, a laundry list of requirements that that application has to go through in order for it to get approved. So yes, it is what is created in order for a developer to sell a lot to build a home. Does that make sense?

I remember Amanda chasing us down after meetings that we had to sign the plat. When we put a new plat or revised the plat. And she's come at us with a big map. And we used to have to take the Sharpie and sign it down. I don't know if you remember that, Judy, or not, but we did that several times in meetings.

So that is still going to happen. Somebody... So... The way it is, I believe the mayor will still have to sign. He signs the minor subdivisions. I'll have to check the ULDC on that. You may know on a subdivision plot, the mayor is required to sign it, right? I believe that's a signature block. That's pretty standard. Oh, they may.

Well, that's coming down from the state.

That's coming down from the state.

But will the development order still come to us?

The development order will still come to, yeah. Well, let me explain that a little bit better because, see, that's where it creates a little bit of confusion. A PLAT prelim final minor subdivision is a development order, but it doesn't have to follow concurrency regulation. And so, again, the development order is going to be more of a site plan. It's going to be... Another, so development orders, it is a development order, but certain development orders are not required to come before you. Now site plans, yes, I've seen it in, it's gone back and forth in so many cities that I've seen where site plans are just go to planning commission. And they're the land use authority. They're the deciding body. I've seen it to where staff is the deciding body. And then I've seen it go back to the commissioner city council. So it's gone back and forth in many jurisdictions. It really fluctuates with. the turnover in with politics with your with your offices so you know this this body right here can be completely different in four years and that group may say oh i want to see site plans i don't want to i want to see what's going on in the city and that's that's fine but you have to remember it has to follow the ULDC. And as staff, that's what we are required to do is to make sure it meets all those, it checks all those boxes. And then we present it to you or to the planning commission who then makes a recommendation to you to decide if it's approved. So those are the type of things, Commissioner Warwick, that will still come to you. We don't have any recommendations desire to change that right now. We're going to do little bits at a time. I have a question. Yes.

Like the situation we had a few months back where the whole group in Southport

that wants to build all those mini whatever. I don't remember.

I'm talking about mobile homes and all that, and they were going to do a whole community. Now, they went through and got the permission from somebody to do that. Then all of a sudden, they didn't have the permission. Then they came before the commission at a commission meeting. And now they're still loading dirt in there and everything.

And I thought we said, no, I've, I've asked for that to be enforced. So, because they should not be doing that. Um, they do not have a construction documents. So you, what you have, what you have done is you have approved a development order for a land use. First time was townhomes, duplexes, right? Duplexes, that's what was approved. Those type of orders will come before you, but then they have to go through the platting process. They still have to create a subdivision. It doesn't stop at that order. Basically you're saying, so they changed it recently. The recent application was to change it to mobile homes, a mobile home park, It went through staff and it got recommended for approval to the planning commission. Planning commission had some questions on it. So this is where it really comes down to understanding the process, the way you're I say Robert's Rules of Order, right? As a governing body, how are you supposed to make those motions? And I think there was some confusion in the Planning Commission. There was some confusion on what was being approved. Some wanted to deny it and some didn't. Somehow the majority... didn't said to just approve it and the minority said no and but somehow it got mixed up to where it the negative recommendation came before you and so um another thing is is that negative recommendation anytime you make a recommendation or the planning commission makes a recommendation they need to provide reasons why the findings as to why they're making that negative recommendation. That is just Robert's Rules of Order or even the state rules. You need, because it needs to, how are you going to defend it if you don't, right?

Right.

So you say you have stepped in on that project? Right now it's out of our hands. Chris, you probably could speak to that. Yes, we have.

DB has been notified about them filling in on the ditch.

Yes, we do. So there's other issues with that too. Let me kind of finish explaining this. When you make a decision on, whenever you make a decision that's negative or denied, when you deny an application, you need to make sure, and Mayor, this goes to, you know, this is something you have to watch as well, but everybody should be watching this. When you make a motion to deny an application, you need to provide the findings as to why you're making that motion.

This is where planning our work and working on our plan is so important because Is key. Also, if we establish overlays, if you want something to be an enterprise or a business or a historic overlay, a trailer park or a mobile home park wouldn't necessarily fit into that. It wouldn't be congruent, right? So this is where this is also critically important.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's my job as staff is to provide you with all of the information so you can make the correct decision. educated guests based off of the information that has been gathered by the applicant, by the professional engineers, by the floodplain manager, by all of, you know, you have a staff that is here to provide you with all of that information. Now, when you get to that decision and you make a denial, It has to be substantial evidence as to why you're making that denial, why you're denying an application. And that's something where we failed to do that with the Bay Breeze. There wasn't any findings as to why you were denying it. And so that creates more legal problems than anything. But just keep that in mind. And I'm here to help. help you remember that. Chris is here to help you remember that. Attorney is here to help you remember that. It's not, it's not just on you. It's on all of us as staff to help you do that. And sometimes we get going in meetings and it's, crazy. And so it can be something that we neglect to remind each other of.

Let's have a separate sidebar on that at some point. Because I remember distinctly there were safety issues, there were public works issues, there were lots of issues.

Right. There were, but they weren't stated in the motion.

So. We'll leave the batteries alone. We have a court hearing on that one Tuesday. But we'll discuss that one later outside of this workshop.

Is that the one we're talking about? That is the one we're talking about.

That's what I thought we should talk about. So yeah, that's a separate issue.

But again, just to understand some part of that role in making those motions is to back it up. Have the information. If you don't know the information, ask staff to help you get that information, answer those questions so that you are fully understanding what's going on. Just to move on. So I got caught up in current comp plans. So my recommendation is to hire a consultant to do the comprehensive update. Now, this is not just a few codes, a few pages, or just to keep up with the state requirements that we need to update data every five years. This is a major overhaul, and that is to, again, modernize it, bring it up to current planning standards or development standards, that is across the board. That's with every element of the comprehensive plan. If we need to look at or analyze, I'm just going to, this is not something we need to really do, but the land use districts or the land use map and say, okay, there's low density residential, there's medium density residential. Do we need to look at adding another one? I'm not saying that. This is just purely an example. Do we need to add additional land uses? Do we need to take some away? but again remember this is high level and you can make it general like commercial and then in the uldc you could potentially break it down that's the that's the beautiful thing about having a comprehensive plan and a zoning map so that's my recommendation is to hire a consultant to lead that but we have to work together on that because with the update for the comprehensive plan, staff will be leading smaller sections of the ULDC to get updated. And the reason, so more focused, as Commissioner Peebles said, chapter or topic by topic, chapter by chapter, there, you know, I get into the ULDC is when I first started I started at the beginning and started reading through it. I'm like, I was a squirrel. I was going to this. And that's what happens. And I'll show you that in here in a second. That's what happens is when we start addressing one, it ends up that we have to address five other sections in the code because it it crosses over and it points to different sections of the code. For example, the next ULDC update that you'll see, Amy has already started the ordinance on that, is to do this plat, you know, to bring it up to state legislation standards. But she's yesterday, or not yesterday, the day before when we talked, she's having to create two additional land ordinances because it affects two other areas in the ULDC. So that one, and it's actually probably more as we're getting into it. So just updating that, now we're having to address it in other areas of the code. And so you'll see three or four ordinances at the time of that legislative update so the reason i want to do it by a focus by focused smaller amendments is to help you get eyes on it so when you are making a decision you'll remember hey didn't we just do a an amendment on that you'll remember those sections a lot more and it will help you make your decisions better. That's my whole intent. I've seen how that works in other jurisdictions. I've seen it to where people don't wanna get, they just wanna be there to make the decision. And then I've seen it where they get involved and when they see those smaller sections, it's easier for them to recognize those details. and then adoption and ongoing updates. I've already created a spreadsheet that Staff has to add. You know, it is, it is. Is it bylaws that says that the. It's in the will make recommendations to staff or updates to the. And a comprehensive plan. So things, but you're not in it every day, right? You're not working in the code every day. So I've created a worksheet. that I've shared with staff that we can add, hey, this section needs to be looked at. That's something we can bring back to you and explain, hey, we have these inconsistencies in the ULDC. We need to address them. Would you like us to do an amendment? And then we can work on getting an amendment. It helps you be more involved with those updates. But a code should always be evolving. It should never be stagnant. That's what's happening. It's hard when you have not very much staff and you have a 185-page ULDC. It's hard. And applications coming in, natural disasters happening. You have a lot on your plate as staff. And so keeping those up to date can be difficult. But I think if we're all on page with it, we can keep those things going.

How frequent would you recommend we look at? Updating, maintaining. I mean, obviously, there's ad hoc things. It's AI data center. Things come about. But on a general schedule or cycle, would you recommend an annual look, a three-year look, a five-year look? What do you recommend?

I'm looking at it every day. That's the whole purpose of the spreadsheet that I've created. Chris may be looking at it. Legal. We'll have a discussion in city commission. And you've made... you've made recommendations already commissioner peoples has i think commissioner work has you've already you're you're seeing it so you're making those to us but as staff we're going through it and we're saying oh hey or and i'll show you an example here in a second so It's a continuous thing. I wouldn't say we need to do a major overhaul on it annually or take a deep dive into it annually. Staff is deep diving in it every day because we get phone calls and we are having to interpret that code and give information to people.

So you see this being long-term a living document for us? Okay.

Absolutely. And that keeps code evolving. That keeps cities up to date. It keeps them modern. It keeps it aligned with your comprehensive plan. Going to your point, how often do we dive into the ULDC? Well, we should be doing that on a constant basis, but the state requires us to update data and have data and analysis map series and all of that in the comprehensive plan five years, and then every 10 years should be a major update.

Ray, is that right?

The state? I want to make sure I'm correct on that.

Yeah, thank you.

Oh, there you go. So even more time. You have more time. So did it used to be five years? And it's hard to do because sometimes some of those updates take a year, sometimes more to do. When I did a major comprehensive update in a little... county that I worked in, it took us three years to do that major update. And a lot of it, it goes back to elected officials changed, staff changed. We had to hire a consultant to help us finish it. Things happen. And so that's probably smart, but you have to remember, we have our hands in the ULDC. If something doesn't align, it doesn't mean we can't address it. in an amendment. So at which we might have to do because hiring a consultant right now might be not in the budget, but we can possibly do smaller updates to the comprehensive plan as we're updating the ULDC.

That was going to be my next question. What kind of financial burden is this going to add on us? I mean, consultants and attorneys, do we have any idea?

Our last estimate was around $200,000, and the numbers that you saw yesterday do not have that in there.

Yeah. So it can be a pricey endeavor. But how do we get along in the interim? It's going to be... We're not going to stop. We're going to start updating the ULDC. But how do we make it align? So for example... the comprehensive plan versus, you know, the future land use map versus zoning. So we need to separate the long range plan, land use plan policy from the zoning regulation. Having that distinction will help you significantly understand the regulatory processes that's in our code.

They're talking about the zoning. Sorry.

I probably should ask this out loud. So the 200,000 we talked about earlier, I thought that was just if we went to a zoning.

It was. The 200,000 is an estimate. It may be a little less, but it's going to be every bit of 150 to 200 grand. All right.

That's okay. Again, we'll have to address that separately so that we can keep moving forward. But we need to make that separation. And I was on the fence. I was like, oh, we can just keep going. But as I put my hands in it and started looking at the comprehensive plan and the future land use map and the land use districts or zoning, calling it what it is, is needed. Some people get hung up on that. I'm happy to talk to whoever in the public has questions of that. So if you get residents that don't understand or want to, you know, don't like this recommendation, please send them my way. I'm happy to have a candid conversation with what's the difference and hopefully help them understand a little bit better. A map series and data, so updating the future land use map and then your CRA, your municipal service area, hazards, infrastructure, public, that's been done with this last amendment. And even the options for the sewer plant to be either rehabbed or moved, that was in this last update. So we're okay there, but as far as other things like the zoning map and separating that, that will need to be a comprehensive plan update, but it may be small enough that we can handle it as staff. So it may be able to save some of that money. So infrastructure levels of service and capital improvements, that's what the comprehensive plan outlines as well. T&D and overlays, this is another one that is highly confusing. It needs to be rewritten for clarity. It needs to include master plan maps and administrative exceptions. The way that it's set up now is very convoluted and very confusing. So going into the T&D and trying to apply the standards, I'm not only applying... And this is with every application. We look at the comprehensive plan and the zoning map or the zoning code, ULDC. We need to make sure that it meets both standards. But the T&D has some confliction there. So high resource uses, this is your data centers. So I wanted to make sure that we put in high resource uses so that it encapsulates all of those type of uses, not just AI data centers. Does that make sense? So these are the comprehensive plan priorities, annexation and compatibility. So support voluntary annexation as you had that resolution recently so that we can help get those areas annexed into the city. Redevelopment, that's another issue that we need to really take a look at. Buffers, transitions, adjacency, protections, et cetera. um the uldc strategy is the update the code in smaller manageable sections rather than one large rewrite immediate priorities is this like i said the state legislative updates the moratorium on data centers high resource demand use regulations which really encompasses that ai land use districts to zoning districts official zoning map known, unclear, outdated, or difficult sections. Those are the immediate priorities. So those are the things that we're going to attack first. We can also do that with smaller portions of the comprehensive plan priorities. Um, the structural priorities of the zoning district standards and use table that needs to be, so we already have that. Don't think that we're having to create something new. Um, It's there, but it could be better. And it could be updated and modernized so that it aligns with the intent of not only other sections within the ULBC, but also the comprehensive plan. And it helps to apply these standards to your development orders, site plan, and plat procedures. We need to clean that up because there's so many things that are different And like we found the other day, minor subdivisions, that we've just been approving them. And it's all checked off. Everything's checked off. But I was reading in the code and it says that the TRC is the deciding authority for minor subdivisions. We didn't know that. And so that's something that we had our first TRC for a minor subdivision.

What's a TRC?

Sorry, Technical Review Committee.

Basic Planning Commission?

No. The Technical Review Committee is just staff, and it's our infrastructure director. It is our water and utilities. It is fire. It's public safety. It's planning.

Internal committee, basically.

Attorneys, yes. It's all internal. And so we had a good discussion, and this minor subdivision, you know, Deputy Chief Enfinger made a recommendation about secondary accesses, and that became a condition of approval. So that's the exact wording in the ULDC is that the technical review committee shall – motion or approve with conditions or deny or continue. So it states that, but that's pretty much the only place that it really outlines anything like that in the ULDC.

Do they have a time constraint to do that? I mean, when a resident comes, you can take as long as you want to get back to them? Well, no.

I think the state has come down. Rates are going to have to be my legislative caucus. I don't know all of them yet. Did the state put a timeline on applications for planning and development as far as how long staff can take to review it?

What is it now? Do we know?

14 to 30 days.

Oh, wow.

So building processes are in our building permit processes is in the ULDC. That actually has to be updated because from the time that we take money for a building permit, they have, is it five days? Five to 10 days to review and approve a building permit or it automatically gets approved, right? That's a legislative update. And that's not in our code right now. That's not in the ULDC. We're practicing it because it's law. And Tyson's done a fantastic job in getting the building department up to snuff on that. Another thing that we've changed that it's just because I've done it in both jurisdictions that I've worked with and I've not done it in one jurisdiction. And then we finally got them to let us do that is planning, reviewing building permits. So building permits have a land, they are being built on land. What are the reg, are they far those building permits? Residential homes, commercial, whatever they are, are they following the ULDC standards? Setbacks, height, impervious surface coverage, lot coverage, all of those things need to be checked. And it was being left up to building to do that. And a lot of things had gotten missed. And so we're just moving forward. So planning will now sign off on those to make sure that they meet all of those standards. But that's not in our ULDC.

Okay. I feel like all I'm talking about is money, but when somebody comes to us for a permit, how do you decide what to charge them?

We have a fee schedule. So we have an approved fee schedule by city commission that has an outline. Now, a lot of those, so state of Florida, within any state, we cannot make money on those applications, right? You understand that. A lot of those fees are outdated and are not covering the costs of of just staff time. Minor subdivision, for example, is a fee that we need to address, which we can in this next, you know, revision of the fee schedule.

But we have to have, I'm sorry? What do we charge now?

Right now we charge $100. And you know what a minor subdivision is? It's this division of one parcel into two. That's what our ULDC is. It can just go to two. And we charge $100, but Vicki spends a good 10 hours on it. That $100 does not even cover her time. Then we have water and sewer availability done by the utilities department, which is a good amount of time. So we're not even covering our costs there. So that's something we can address at another time. I mean, we're not going to, you know, we can't address that. It's on our list. But again, you know, even our pre-application or, you know, we came across our minor subdivision. This was kind of funny. And it's just, this just goes to prove how much of a patchwork our ULDC is. and how important it is that we need to change it for the better. We need to modernize it. We need to align it. And we need to clarify. And those are the things that we need to do. So we found that a change of use permit is required by the ULDC in Section 10. And we've never done one, ever. But how do we catch those? The only way we can catch those is if somebody comes in or code enforcement sees something or building, they get a building permit and it's a change of use. But they hadn't even been catching that. And they didn't know that in the ULDC that it needed a change of use permit. We caught one the other day because they require a business license, but it was something that was going into a building that was another use that doesn't match what uses they're doing now. So, you know, there's those kind of discrepancies in the code. So The fee to do a change of use permit, $1,250. Now, That's pretty high, but again, you're looking at buildings fees because Tyson has to do a new certificate of occupancy if the change includes increase in parking or food or other things like that. So do you see, we have to apply that time, but those are the things that we need to take a look at. Storm drain, environmental annexation and appeals, all of those things come into play in the structural priorities that we need to better outline our ULDC.

I think, too, it has a lot to do with Lynnhaven versus Panama City and the surrounding areas, because I hear a lot about that. Yeah. You guys charge so much more than, you know, Panama City. We're going to move down two blocks, you know, just to see the city limits. Yeah. to save what they make it sound like thousands.

Yeah. Um, this became an issue with the leagues of cities and towns in Utah and, um, our city manager, um, from Saratoga Springs actually took a huge interest in this. Um, he's a data guy, but he had all of us, there was nine planners and, um, five engineers or engineers, five engineers, um, six engineers, sorry, six engineers. And we all touched an application, but that was the argument. Developers and residents, well, your fees are too high. Your fees are too high. So we, what he has done is he has required that staff to document every minute of our time For each application of how long we spent on it. So he's collected this data for over two years. So it, it really does. It will help in fee schedules and, and being able to better align those.

And I've looked, you know, we approve the fee schedule every year and I, I, I did a deep dive on this a while back and. i'm not saying lynn haven's the cheapest not one of my point here is but there's a lot of things that's not an apple to apple comparison because some things include other things where other cities that have it all separated out right so when people say it's more expensive that's not always the truth absolutely so there's probably areas where lynn haven's cheaper and then there's probably other areas where the other ones are cheaper so

But then at the very end, that very end, oops, that very end invoice or that very, you know, then it could very well be apples to apples. So, yeah. So moving on. So land use designation versus zoning district. I want to explain this. Does any of you, do you all understand the difference between the two? Does that make sense? Do you have questions, Judy? Or sorry, Commissioner Tender? No, I was reading. Okay. So both are needed, but they serve different purposes. So like we said, I feel like I'm a broken record here, but the broad policy direction, long-range vision for an area, general categories and intensities, growth, compatibility, infrastructure. For an example, mixed use or commercial future land uses. That's the policy map. Then we move over to the ULDC, the official zoning map, the official zoning code. The detailed rules for the property, so specific permitted and conditional uses, setbacks, height, lot, size, density, impervious surface, stormwater, parking, landscaping buffer, all of those examples. Zoning determines what can be built or operated today. And so that's where a lot of that confusion comes from.

I want to ask a question. And he might be the only one to know the answer.

Ben? Ben?

Wait. Wait. You didn't escape. I just want to ask this one question about the Florida Avenue update and all that. I see here it says setbacks and height and all of that. With the plans that we have set in motion for Florida Avenue, do we meet all of them? The setbacks and the height of the building restrictions and all that? I'm hearing tales, and I can't substantiate it, just gossip, I'm sure.

I have answers. Okay, all right. Our improvements apply to the right-of-way. We're not dealing with setbacks in the right-of-way. The setbacks pertain to properties.

Right.

So we're talking about apples, you're talking about oranges, right?

Okay, so it's two different things. Because I've been told that right next to Slice House, in that empty lot, is going a three-story building with retail offices and an apartment.

That has nothing to do with this? That wasn't architectural rendering, kind of like an idea. But it's not a city property, so we're not building anything on it.

Okay, but as far as licensing and all that?

Yes. It goes through our process. So it comes in as an application. Somebody wants that napkin drawing that somebody has shown you. They will have to apply for it. So my rule of thumb is it's not here unless it has an application. And that should be our rule of thumb because a lot of people, a lot of businesses, they don't want... people to know they're coming into town. But, and we have to honor that. But one, because it is a public application, We can have preliminary talks all day long, but ethically, it's not right for us to say, hey, this is coming when we don't have an actual application. So we can look at napkin drawings all day long, but until they've actually submitted that napkin drawing, per the standards that we have outlined in our ULDC, It's not coming in. Okay. So if I...

Okay. Yeah. I got the answer.

Do you have...

I do.

Okay.

I know what I'll do.

Okay. So it's our regulatory map. Simple way to explain it. The comprehensive plan says what the area should become. Zoning says what can be built, operated, and reviewed on a specific property. Okay. It goes also to, hey, so-and-so is building a big, huge pole barn on their property, and I can't see my view. If they meet the ULDC standards, it's legal. So just remember that. But if they don't, then we can take a look at it. But if those applications come in, and they are doing their due diligence, and they're following our code, That's the whole purpose of our ULDC zoning districts. So it just helps put them in the right boxes and standards in the right boxes. So... Why the city needs both. So one map and one set of district names are doing two jobs, long range planning, long range policy, and zoning style regulation. Example, commercial area. Future land use can say, identify as commercial. An area is intended that it can be used for business activity. The zoning could distinguish neighborhood scale retail. so from higher intensity commercial uses with different buffering access parking and design standards so you can we have the commercial you can go in and break that down you're welcome to we can leave it as it is it's it gives you the option um to do that but it also allows you to create you know more regulation for those higher intense commercial uses Example to mixed use can support a blend of residential, commercial, civic and employment uses. Zoning could define where the area functions. As downtown style mixed use office, small office, retail, residential transition. Or T and D style or waterfront. We had a zone that was poorly written until we had to redo the whole thing. And I was lucky enough to be the guinea pig planner to help a developer put it through. It was so much fun, a four-year process to get that development going. And they still haven't put a shovel in the ground.

Gina, this is one area where I see where we really could collaborate between the commission, you and your team, our planning committee, where we all come together and we come up with overlays, zones.

I would say zones. I would steer away from overlays just because it feels too... temporary. An overlay does. And people can argue with me. There may be others that disagree with that. If you're going to put a bunch of regulations, I mean, it's what has been done. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I see, you know, like the CRA. The CRA is a good overlay, right? Overlays have their purpose, but if we're going to create an overlay that is going to govern the distance between drive-throughs, that's something that can be regulated within our zoning code. So within those standards can be outlined. We don't need an overlay for it. We just need to put it in our code.

What I'm talking about in Fairpoint is more of a, as we're trying to develop long term strategically, we want to retain this area's unique historical commitment and architecture and, you know, and have distinct historical pieces of Lynn Haven that we can recognize and figure out how to make a modern one. While preserving our past and having that balance.

Absolutely. So we have the 9-11 plat overlay. We have specific standards for that. Where it gets confusing, and yes, I think we can collaborate from all aspects, and that's the reason I want to do the... ulbc in smaller sections so we can sit down at the table and have a discussion between all parties bring in staff how is it going to affect storm drain if we put this zone in place how is it going to affect you know we need to look into our big crystal ball to address it so that we are looking 10, 15, 20 years down the road, are we going to be able to meet our requirements and align with our comprehensive plan? That is absolutely yes. We need to sit down and collaborate. And we can create those. That's the whole purpose of doing it in smaller sections is we can go in and say, OK, we have the commercial zone. zoning district, and you want to create a neighborhood commercial. What are the standards in neighborhood commercial? It's a walkable community. You want mom and pop shops, boardwalks, you want that's the kind of, you know, that feel. You want to preserve that waterfront or, I'm not that Glenhaven has much waterfront left, but it gives you the option to, I mean, there are still bayous. There's still, you know, capabilities there. but it gives you the option to outline those regulations a little bit better to where they're more consistent to your goals as preserving the historical intent of vision of our city, right? It's a historical vision. This is, we don't want to lose that. I love the history of Lynn Haven. And I think it's imperative that we do preserve that. Do we have, we have the 1911 plaque. That's helping with that. We have the CRA. But do we have more in our code? I can't give you that answer right now. Vicki may be able to answer that. But, you know, what other historic preservation regulations do we have? I don't know of any. But maybe the CRA has some of that. You know, the CRA is a good example of the kind of regulation it sounds like you're wanting to put down. But where does that go? If you do that the way that it is now, it's that single layer. And so some of the comprehensive plan kind of bleeds over to the ULDC. So it just becomes this mishmash and in my opinion from a planning perspective from applying zoning code or the ulbc and the comprehensive plan there can be confusion the tnd is another example of that lord um it's very confusing so um because there's regulation written into the comprehensive plan in the in the tnd we had a tnd at mill bayou and then it got variance to death it's not even a tnd anymore Yeah, there's there's a yeah, it's an overlay.

I have a question about about you were just talking about historic our store plat and different plants. Did we or did we not? I remember signing something after we've after we did we create a platform Marina island yet or no.

We have a platform marine island. I don't know.

No, not a plat just the agreement.

yeah overlays it's just the developer agreement development agreement development agreement right so we will have to create i mean that as as we've been told that is in the 1911 plan is it not it it is yes so we would have to if they're going to do that extreme amount of development we're going to have to subplot that or something at some point if by new guidelines

I think that was established years ago in the original, but I'd have to go back and get the history on it.

I haven't dove into that one yet.

Yeah, I'm going to tell you, that's going to involve, you know, I mean, we're basically building infrastructure and everything to it, at it.

So it would have to... And right now, it would follow, if it's not outlined in the development agreement, it would follow our current ULDC standards, which the 1911 plat doesn't really give a lot of... Or 1911 plat overlay... district does not give very much detail like the CRA has architectural standards. The ULDC does not define that in the 1911 plot. It talks about lot splitting.

We need to establish that sooner than later.

Yeah. So if there is, is Marina Island, I don't think Marina Island's not an overlay, it's just a development agreement. So, you know, I'd have to look at the development agreement. But, yeah, you can definitely say, hey, this is the... You don't want to put Marina Island as a zone, but you can say this is an industrial zone and these are the regulations we want in there. So we have, you know, we have some, but is it what you're after? Will Marina Island... Do you come out to be what you're imagining it to be with the standards that we have currently? That's how we have to look at it. So if that's something you want staff to look at, then that's something we need to put on my spreadsheet and prioritize it so that we get working on it. So that's the whole point of that. So if you have those, say, hey... need to look at this we'll work with chris and make sure that we're all on the same page and get that going however it needs to be so um just to you know benefit of separating them clear public information transparency transparency transparency transparency Easier staff administration, better review standards, and a more defensible code. I can't, I mean, that modernization, alignment, and clarification is imperative to create a more defensible code. And that is, provides us with better review standards. You know, sometimes we're floundering saying, well, does this apply? Does this, you know, it can be very challenging to do that. So we have to go to city attorneys to get a determination. We have to sit down with Chris and Jennifer to, okay, what do you think the interpretation of this is? So, you know, it helps us outline that review standard.

Is there a place that we can direct residents to go online to look up any of this information?

As far as what's pending or, I mean, really important isn't pending.

Yeah, but like, for example, if they want to know what it costs to apply. The fee schedule and everything is online.

Yeah, it's all online. The fee schedule's online.

And that's how it's described? Yeah. Okay.

Planning and development fees are on there. It's a big document. We need to... Yeah, we're number 81 on the fee schedule. We need to whittle it down to where it's just the planning and development fees per what's been approved by that ordinance.

Yes, we do have a webpage for planning.

It's just... We're working on it. We're a work in progress. So...

Thank you.

You're welcome. So I wanted to give you an example really quick. We're almost to the end.

What slide am I at here?

There we go. I want to give you an example. This has come up recently. So I actually had a resident asking because he wants to build an accessory structure in his backyard. We have certain standards that we are to follow. So I'm going through the code with them. So I want you to see accessory structures. I've highlighted the terms because this is what I want you to take a look at. This is copied straight from the code. Accessory structures should constitute a minimum investment, may not be used for human habitation, that's one key word, and be designed to have minimal flood damage potential. An accessory unit, dwelling unit, is defined as a separate, complete housekeeping unit with a separate entrance, kitchen, sleeping, and complete sanitary facilities, which is an attached or detached extension of an existing single family structure. Okay, we have these two definitions. And this, I'm giving you an example of what needs, this is an actual update that needs to happen, okay? So, Oh, did I just, okay. Section 50103, accessory structures in residential land use districts. I think this is where it kind of got confusing. We have here that in the maximum rear yard coverage in low density residential, they cannot go with an accessory structure, so standards for accessory structures in residential districts, 30%. So that structure cannot be 30% more than the in the rear that's the it's the maximum that's the maximum rear yard coverage okay then we go to section 50104 dwelling accessory accessory dwelling dwellings in land use land residential land use districts so the question was what how big of a pole barn shop can i build on my lot and so we were going through all of these and i even got to this where it says an accessory dwelling says accessory dwelling shall not occupy more than 25 percent of the total livable floor area of the principal residential building so we got on that topic but then it says and see a free standing accessory structure shall not exceed one half the total square footage of the primary structure. Can you see the problem with that? This is under C. This is C under 501.04. We've been using that as somewhat of a standard for accessory structures because it says accessory structures, but it's under accessory dwellings. So these are the types of corrections that we need to make. And we need to make this. It needs to be freestanding accessory dwelling shall not exceed one half the total square footage of the primary structure. Now, we've already got the regulation to restrict how big an accessory structure can be, but we are confusing it with this. So that, I gave you the conflicts, what those are, including setbacks, rear yard coverage, height, all of those are set for accessory structures and accessory dwellings, but then we have that conflict. So it's things like that. Now you can see these are the types of things. I'm going to bring you these small sections. because it has to be singulatory, is what Amy said, and the ordinance needs to be focused on one thing, and it ends up being five different ordinances, because it goes in so many different directions. So that's the reason. So how the two documents align, again, high resources, and then we define those definitions and permissions, conditions, standard, conditional standards, prohibitions, infrastructure impact, and so forth. how staff would proceed. So a practical sequence for the formal update process. So diagnostic review, that's what I've done. Ray's done some of that. Matrix, every goal, objective, and policy, keep, revise, delete, or relocate. MAPPING AND DATA, FUTURE LAND USE MAP SERIES, INFRASTRUCTURE, HAZARDS, PUBLIC FACILITIES, REDEVELOPMENT ANALYSIS. AGAIN, THAT'S RECENTLY BEEN DONE. YOU'LL SEE THAT HERE IN THE NEXT COUPLE MEETINGS. And I can show you what those map series mean. Element review, sorry, element rewrite. Start with future land use, infrastructure, capital improvements, and transportation. Again, we may not need to address that too much. And then ULDC schedule. Pair policy updates with priority code amendments and section by section review. So that's how we're going to work together with the comprehensive update. But again, we're going to have to have a more in-depth conversation because of budget reasons. But I think we can come up with a plan to help mitigate that. Direction requested from the city commission. So this workshop was intended to have that conversation to confirm the path forward that you want staff to do and prepare for the formal work to go out. So the bottom line moving forward with a two-track modernization process, consultant-led comprehensive plan update plus staff-led section by section ULDC update. I just want to confirm that direction. Major modernization rather than limited cleanup. Consultant scope and public engagement. Again, this is my overall scope. That might have to be broken down. Priority ULDC amendments and update schedule. Official zoning map and terminology transitions. Ongoing process to keep the code updated. concurrent. So overall goal, clearer, more defensible, and easier to use planning documents. That's what we're after. So I have a whole other slide that we could go over specific sections that need to be updated. I've got a dozen of them. We don't have to do that. We can have an open conversation. Hit me with your questions, concerns, ideas. I'm here to help answer those.

Questions? Have any idea how long this process will take to actually update the entire comp plan in ULDC?

It could take years. I would hope that we can get a good handle on it. My fear of doing, I mean, not only because of cost, my fear of doing a ULDC major overhaul is things get put in there that you don't know about. Because what happens is, I mean, and it's all in scope. It's all how much money you want to spend. With a consultant-led ULDC update, But, you know, it could get missed. Things could get missed. I've seen it in the plans that I've had to dive into that something got put in there that was totally not what was supposed to be put in there according to the committee that was working on it. So there can be, I think, doing it in smaller sections. Yeah, it may take a little bit longer. Maybe not. I mean, it's not a 300-page code. But those important things that you want addressed, let's address them. Let's put them on a priority list.

So do you foresee this going to the Planning Commission first before it comes to us?

I would like to see a workshop between the Planning Commission and the City Commission first when we have a code amendment. We can bring several at the same time to that workshop. And then we take it through the formal process, the public hearing process, per state code. That goes to city planning commission, gets noticed, planning commission, and then city commission, first read, and then second read.

I don't know. Do you guys think this needs to be a priority? Yeah? Yeah.

Think anything worth doing right is worth doing the first time. Absolutely. And there's no doubt you're the right lady for the job.

Oh, thank you. I hope so. I hope I can do you proud.

You are one heck of a professional spark plug.

I will say that I'm not perfect, and I will make some mistakes. And I hope that I have Chris and Jennifer and Vicki and all of the staff to help keep me right. I mean, CJ's even kept me straight. So I will own up to my mistakes and try to do better the next time.

We already have policy that you can't make mistakes. Yeah, I wish that was...

Now, coming in with your background and a deep professional background, but also fresh eyes is important because we need that here. This particular program was rather stagnant, and it's patchwork, to your point. So we want to get it up to speed. We want it to be effective. We want it to be impactful, and we want it to be positive for our community. Absolutely. So that's going to require a lot of heavy lifting, and you are going to be the orchestrator. Yeah.

I understand that I'm all game. I think, too, another aspect, and this is just from my perspective, I think public input and public outreach is imperative. We want our public, we want our residents to understand the code. And so, I mean, we're explaining it all the time. Sometimes it's hard to explain it. Sometimes it's a visual process. We have people come in all the time and sit down in our offices and we pull up the maps and we show them directly from the code. I encourage that. If you have a resident that has questions, please send them in to us so that we can help them understand what they're... having problems with or what they want to do, anything like that. We can help them through the step-by-step process. That's our role as staff. I truly believe in reaching out to the public, so making sure that the public is invited to those workshops. This one here, I mean, we want to hear that commentary so that we are creating and updating, modernizing, aligning that code to be what the residents want it to be now we have to remember land use or property rights. I'm a big proponent of property rights. And a lot of people don't like land use codes because of that. But in order to preserve your land use, your property rights, and your property rights, we have to have these rules in order for everybody to enjoy their property the way that they want to do. And sometimes that may not be allowed because their neighbor didn't want it or, you know, and that's where it comes, it gets very difficult for you as a commission, for staff. It's hard when we have to tell somebody, hey, it's allowed for your neighbor to put that shop in. You know, it's, but we can at least hopefully cushion it a little bit by helping them understand the zoning regulation.

So you said you need direction from the commission, so...

So that's what we're after. I'm after direction from the city commission. I don't know, Chris, does it need to be a resolution?

No, just some discussion from the commission, but I would recommend that we do a couple of public workshops as well. Like Gina was saying, let's include the public and, hey, what changes does the public want to recommend towards what we're working on before we get too far down the road of implementing changes, but would like some direction from the commission on what all you would like to see.

I know it's going to be a shocker, but I think it needs to be a priority. I've been wanting it to be a priority for quite some time, but I think we're at a point where this is kind of like the saying, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And it's going to take some time. So yeah, that's my position. I don't know if you need me to Anything else for me?

I'm all for making things easy and clear for the resident. I don't mind taking the calls from the residents, but all I do is get on the phone and call y'all.

Please call and ask those questions. I'm happy to help explain it. Come in and sit down with me. Commissioner Warwick has come and sat down with me. I've met with the mayor a little bit, you know, come and sit down with me. If you have specific questions or you have residents that are, they don't want to talk to staff. They want to talk to you. That's okay. But bring them in with you. I'm happy to sit down and have a discussion because I want more than anything for people to understand the public process and Because I knew nothing. I'm from a small town in southeastern Arizona where it was county. It was unincorporated. It was just a small 3,500-people city. My great-great-great-grandfather founded the little town of St. David. And... We didn't have this. My dad was a backhoe driver his whole career, most of his career. And he put septic things in all the time. And when I got my degree in land use and planning, him and I had some very candid conversations because he felt like he could do anything on his property that he wanted regardless. And I'm like, well, put up your walls because you have a junkyard out there. But, you know, even with... with septic tanks for years. Cities and counties weren't regulating septic tanks. And that's how my dad did things. I knew nothing about land use until I became a planning technician. And then it totally, I'm like, so it makes so, so much sense. And I fell in love with the, with the career. So I geek out on it, put it that way. So I'm happy to take conversations.

The thing I'm tired of is when we get a development order knowing that there was things that we could put in the comprehensive plan ULDC and we have no No other authority but to accept the development order, even though I don't like the development order and I disagree with it, knowing that we could have established things in there prior to that that would have prevented the things that have happened.

So really it comes down to you don't like the standards in our ULDC.

Yes, like you were talking about. It's not that in the past that it was not necessarily done wrong when it was originally done, but things need to be revamped. It's like a charter, right? Our charter hasn't been revamped in years and years and years, and then you try to do it, and it makes it very, very difficult. But once you get it up to a certain standard, now it's just a matter of maintaining it.

Absolutely.

And that's where we're at. It's been too many years where this hasn't been revamped.

And there's code that's been changed. And, you know, again, it goes back to that patchwork. But, yeah, it needs to be updated. It's not going to happen overnight. I will tell you that right now. The public process and going through these workshops, making sure that. You're on the same page as the planning commission, and both of those bodies are on page with the direction staff is going. That's where we work out all the weeds. That's where we're pulling all the weeds out of the ULDP. It's going to take some time, it's going to take some work, and it's going to take some hard conversations, but that's the beauty of our democracy, right? That is, you know, when we had all of the national uproar about, you know, changing laws. And this is where it starts right here. It starts with these land use. Land use is a very, or property rights is a very passionate subject. And here in Florida, everywhere, it's not just anywhere, everywhere, property rights, I mean, people kill over it. We've seen that throughout our history and as a nation. And so we have to protect those rights the best way that we can. And the only way that we can do that is through the ULDC.

Sam, Pat, do y'all have anything you want to add? Your horse, you're sick.

I think, uh, I think what you've presented is great. I think, um, I think. That given a clear definition, making the city defendable is a wonderful answer to exactly what the frustrations of commissioner war just stated. Um. I'm all set for turning you loose and letting you work at the budgetary constraints and guidelines of the city manager. So that's my feelings. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Well, I'll be the caboose and say I think you're spot on. I think you're the right professional for the job. We're glad you're here.

Me too. I just got to move here.

This is a very big priority for our city. And you need to let us know what you need from us when you need it. I'll also challenge you to, we've got some great civic organizations, the Lynn Haven Historical Society, for example. You may find some others like the Rotary or other civic-minded organizations where we have folks that really want to contribute or have inputs or share or be part of the solution. So we definitely need to seek out those collaborative opportunities. But you're here now. kick it into Afterburner and you just tell us what you need.

Yep. That raises an idea or the reason for a zoning district. You can create a historical district. And that can be an overlay because you have various areas in the city that are historical. And then you can set your guidelines for that. That's where we would definitely want the historical society to come in and help create those guidelines because they know it, right? They know it better than I do. I've been digging into it, but there's no way that I could ever get to the level of some of these other folks that really know the history of the area. Yeah.

We need to make sure you get linked up with them.

Yep, absolutely. Please.

Well, three of the five of the commissions here are veterans. I'm wondering if our consultant will give us a veteran discount.

Oh, we have to put it out to everybody. So Ray's going to have to woo you with his knowledge.

We almost got a smile out of Ray for that one.

He's been a great resource since, I mean, we've talked a few times, and he's given some great direction and historical elements that he knew of. So it's been great working with him, and I'm sure I will call him on the regular.

Ladies and gentlemen, any wrap-up from the commission? I want to make sure everybody has a chance to ask questions, but does anybody have anything else from the dais? Amazing job. Thank you. We'll open it up to the public. You guys have been great. I mean, we've got several of our diehard regulars here. Thank you for your patience and your observations this morning. Does anybody have any questions or comments? Mr. Snyder, come on up. I like your patriotic Hawaiian flare shirt.

I'll see Commissioner Warwick's analogy about eating elephants one bite at a time and raise you with another one. What is the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. What's the second best time to plant a tree?

Today.

Right now. So I would challenge you to... Undertake this soberly, seriously. Lean on your experts because this is a monumental undertaking and it's one that given our financial constraints, this is an opportunity that we can use to make sure that Lynn Haven looks the way we want it to look and that we set a clear path for the folks that want to come in and build their businesses and build their homes. Make sure that as folks, because the growth is coming, right? Or it is growing. And they've discovered the peninsula. It's almost full. They're headed north. And as the growth comes here, we need to welcome it. We don't need to say no. We don't need to say, sorry, this isn't the place for you. But we need to make sure that as development and growth comes, that it looks... like what not only Lynn Haven residents want it to look like, but it looks like the growth that's going to benefit us, that benefits our neighborhoods, that benefits our business community, that benefits all of the things that make Lynn Haven what it is, a great place to raise a family, a place that I moved to when I was seven years old, a place that I moved back to so that I could raise my family. That would be my encouragement.

I would make the argument that growth isn't coming, it's here.

Well, there's more growth coming then.

All right, that sounds good. All right, thank you. Your point's well taken, Jeff, and thank you, sir.

Is this on? I want to... kind of piggyback off of that you know growth you're saying growth is here but we have we have a lot of infill development available so we have these minor subdivisions happening which are creating additional lots which then you know is water and sewer there we've had an example of where we have an old water line. So the water for one lot has to come to four, two to 400. I can't remember how many feet out 200 feet. But the city, you know, that line is on the list and, The city isn't able to do it. Sometimes it gets bumped from the list because something else takes priority. So, you know, those are the types of things that put constraints on development and growth. But yes, growth is coming, but it's not at the rate that it will be that it was back when Lynn Haven was first established. going there is infill development michael wiped out some some structures which creates additional infill and so you know that's something we have to take a look at and maybe you know that's where we help establish rules and regulations to help move that development along or to restrict it or whatever it is the the direction that you want to go that's right

Anybody else this morning? Mr. Detweiler, come on up. Good morning.

Well, I think you all know that you're not going to get a bigger proponent of doing some zoning upgrades than me. Great to hear all of this. I love the presentation. Thank you. You know, I've been screaming this for four or five years, so I'm more than happy to watch it finally happening. you know, we talk about a plan, we talk about how are we going to get this done. I'd like to see kind of a six-month plan, a two-year plan, a five-year plan to fully renovate this at the end of the five years. You know, right now as a six-month plan, I'd like to see sort of an administrative, you know, here's what we can change to effectively do what's going on right now, and then put some bumper guardrails in place so that you can say no to a few things. And then two years, get a large plan put in place so that we know where we're going over the next five years. And then five years, we work out all the little minor things like how do we want to put trees in or how thick do roadways need to be in neighborhoods and all those minor details that are going on. So some things I would like to see would be You know, we have a lot of neighborhoods or, you know, things like that. It looks like a checkerboard between unincorporated Lynn Haven and Panama City. And it's, it's, you know, everyone's kind of scattered around. I think you all know where I'm going with this. You need to be able to say no. If. one of your lots bumps up against some other jurisdictions lot if that other jurisdiction has policies in place that says no you can't build something and you don't you should have something in your repertoire to be able to say okay this is a non-congruent adjacent land policy It doesn't fit. You're going to have a lot of that as you're growing. And so having little tools like that, being able to say, no, you can't have a mobile home in a floodplain, seems pretty simple. But those little things, right, that you can do over the next six months are going to give you a lot of tools to be able to say, no, hey, we have a list of policies that we're working on over the next year. If you come to us with... this commercial property or this industrial property. It is on our plan of changes, and in six months, it will not congruently match where we're going. So we can put a six-month pause on your DO so that when we change the plans, you can now build this, but this is not going to be there because we know we're heading in those directions. Some of that might not work out legally, and obviously you're going to have to go in place, but by putting small... bumpers in place, we can get to that two-year plan and then from that two-year plan, work out the minor details. So that's kind of the six months that I would like to see is some of those small things put in place administratively and policy-wise so that you can say no. Bringing up the hazard use cases is a great example. Now we have phase one, phase two of that major development that's going in on 26th. That's going to take us to, what, 96% of our capacity on sewage? Nothing else can be built. You should be able to say no to something that's going to make it so that everybody else gets a no. And so I'm a libertarian. It's no secret I'm registered. I work with the state. And I piss a lot of libertarians off when I say this, but I do have a belief that if you want to be completely free, go live somewhere where you don't have neighbors, right? The closer that your boundaries get to somebody else, the more likely you are going to infringe upon their rights. And if everybody in this city has a right to develop according to the state, then you building a 200-home facility shouldn't infringe on somebody else's right to want to build a commercial facility or apartments or something else like that because you've now taken it away from them. So if we aren't going to put policies in place that you can either say no or say you need to fund new storm lines or new sewage lines or build out 26 so that the you know traffic that you are going to put onto that road that doesn't meet it you know you have to pay a portion of that impact now i know they pay impact fees but it is not even going to come close to the cost of building out the infrastructure to do some of that stuff the town homes that have gone in apartment complexes So, for a six-month plan, if I had to say put something in place, put those guardrails in place. The other thing that I would like to see before we get too into depth about, you know, building the small stuff is kind of a big picture thing. So like Mill Bayou is kind of its own neighborhood, the Platts its own neighborhood, Marina Bay, stuff like that are these own neighborhoods. Let's create a big idea map and then have the actual residents of those areas go, what matches these ideas, these things and stuff like that and get a vision board for what they want in their communities that we can go to that focus and then deal with the deeper dive things. So If you had to ask me kind of what a roadmap would look like, that's what I would like to see. Thank you, Zach.

Appreciate that. And Gina, to Zach's point, I'm sure there's this is going to be a very reiterative process. But if there is some key low hanging fruit and first wave closest gator to the boat kind of updates that we need to make.

Yeah, I can definitely put something together. I think that's a great idea. It gives us, you know, it goes back to Commissioner Warwick's SMART goals. We need a timeline. You know, we need that. Okay, when are we going to finish this? And we can do some of that low-hanging fruit, those accessory structures, that type of thing, smaller things. Right now we're focused on getting updated with what the legislature has put down for the cities. So we're going to update that. So that's top priority. We need to come into compliance with the state. And then we can start addressing some of these others. So maybe that, like to Chris's point, we need to have, I can put something together. We can do a workshop with the planning commission and the city commission, and I can show you what that worksheet is. And then we can, you can help direct with some of that priority prioritization as well. from your mind. I don't know if that's something that city manager wants to do or can help me organize that.

Yeah, we can definitely put a joint public workshop together.

And to Mr. Detweiler, I think allowing the public to say, hey, these are my ideas. We can't guarantee that we can do regulation for every single person, but at least we can allow them to help mold whatever that ordinance is to help city look to what it is there are certain you know requirements we have legality issues we have you know infrastructure issues those those are things that we have to take a look at that maybe the public doesn't know or understand so that's an opportunity in those workshops to help us kind of whittle that down a little bit more yes yes ma'am thank you mr beshear

A lot of good information. A lot of good ideas here. But I'm going to talk about Jamie's elephant eating one bite at the time. We all know the budget constraints we're under and the funding issues we're going to see. The main thing she's asking for that I see is being able to utilize an outside consultant that's going to run 200K or so. I think we all need to be ready at the next workshop, budget workshop, to decide and discuss where we're going to get this money from, what we're going to give up, what we're not going to give up, what our priorities are on that budget, and how does this fit into it. Because to me, that's the main thing. We all agree we need zoning, we need the ULDC updated, we need the comp plan updated. We've got to pay for it, and we've got to decide. How we're going to pay for it and where that funding is going to come from. I think that is the main decision y'all are going to face. Not whether you want to do this or not, but how we're going to pay for it.

Fair point. And spoken like a true finance member. I'm glad you're using your crutches today, Johnny. You're running up here yesterday. Thank you, Johnny. Anyone else? Bueller, Bueller? If not, really appreciate y'all being here today. City Commission, City Manager, any last words? Gina, again, thank you. Awesome presentation. Thank y'all, everybody, for being here. Hope you have a great weekend.