Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

The meeting will now come to order. Welcome to the August 18, 2026 meeting of the City of Greenville Planning and Zoning Commission. My name is John Collins, and I'm the chair of this commission. Spencer, will you please do the invocation?

Let's get started off with a word of prayer. Everybody please bow their head. Lord, thank you for bringing us together this evening for the opportunity to serve our community. Give us the wisdom, good judgment, open hearts as we make decisions before us. Help us lead with fairness, honesty, and integrity, always keeping our community's best interests in mind. Guide us tonight and in the work ahead. Amen.

Amen.

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Alan Thomas. Here. Annika Royal. Here. Toya Jacobs. Here. Kenneth Bell. Here. Thomas Remington.

Here.

William McCurry. Here. John Collins.

Here.

Brad Carter. Here. Spencer Newton.

Here.

Carlos White.

Here.

Clayton Sill. Here. And Kimberstone. Here. We have quorum.

All right. Approval of the agenda. Can I ask who votes? We have everybody.

Everyone except the audience.

Okay. Okay. But Grice and William are part of the discussion, so we'll make sure to... Okay. The agenda. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda?

Motion approved. Second.

We have a motion and a second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Agenda is approved. You've all been presented in advance with the minutes from the July 21, 2026 meeting and have had an opportunity to read and review the minutes. Are there any questions or corrections? Or is there a motion?

Motion to approve.

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All those in favor of approving the minutes, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Minutes are approved. New business. Request by Greenville Hotel LLC to rezone 1.08 acres located at the southwestern corner of Evans Street and Reed Circle from CDF, Downtown Commercial Fringe, to CD, Downtown Commercial. Presentation by Ms. Gooby.

All right. Good evening. Good evening. This property is centrally located in the city. It's more specifically at the corner of Reed Circle and Evans Street. So just to the north of it, you have Shepherd Library and then across the street you have the boundary. This request is made up of two parcels, but collectively they are just over one acre. You're probably familiar with this site. It currently has a restaurant on it with some associated parking spaces on it. So there is a regional activity center in the downtown area. That's where commercial uses are anticipated and encouraged. So the traffic report at full build out under the current zoning, this request could generate about 700 trips. And then under the proposed zoning, this could generate about 1,100 trips. So that leaves a net increase of 472. The property is not located in a special flood hazard area. There are no jurisdictional wetlands, streams, or buffers. This is if stormwater rules apply, it will require 25 year detention. This property has been zoned CDF since 1969. The downtown area has slowly been going to a trend of rezoning properties to CD. So this is very similar to what we have seen. The site could accommodate a hotel of approximately 100 to 120 rooms. The future land use and character map recommends urban core for basically the downtown area of the Horseshoe and then extends down Evan Street. The proposed CD zoning is part of the urban core character. In staff's opinion, this request is in compliance with the Horizons plan and the future land use and character map. Staff recommends approval and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Great questions for Shantae.

What would the height requirements be on something like that or limits limitations?

The CD district does not have height limitations except for the airport overlay. However, with where this is located at, the overlay is not going to be impactful for you know, 10, 12 story building. Gotcha.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I guess my question would be, you said 120 rooms. Mm hmm. Where would the parking be?

Well, it would more than likely be just one building, many stories with a parking lot around it. Let me let me back up one second because this is the restaurant and the parking lot, right? So here's the restaurant. I don't know if you can see my cursor. And then you also have the parking lot just to the south of it as well. So this goes to the marathon. parking lot so you have about an acre in the downtown zoning district you do not have setbacks so you are able to basically use the entire portion of the property so zero lot line that was going to be my question so you can go right to the lot line that's correct and marathon is still there marathon is not included that would be just to the outside of the box

Okay, that was it. Other than it's a nightmare situation as far as traffic right there, but we'll listen to what everybody has to say. Thank you.

I'm going to click it to the last slide then if you're okay.

Okay, thanks. All right, the public hearing is open. The first speaker will have five minutes with each additional speaker having three minutes until 30 minutes has expired. Is there anyone present to speak in favor of this request? Is that a yes? Yep. All right. Come up and state your name for the record, please, sir.

I'm with C&H Hotels. We speak in favor of it. We are developing a higher end hotel in the area. It's going to include a rooftop restaurant. That's what we're thinking of. Bring in quality jobs to the area and bring in a quality product to the neighborhood. And kind of redefining that circle and kind of making it more of an A MORE HIGHER TRAFFIC FROM WALKING AND THEN I WOULD SAY TO YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND THERE'S GOING TO BE AN EXIT AND ENTER ON REED CIRCLE AS WELL AS EVANS TO HELP MITIGATE SOME OF THAT TRAFFIC PATTERN. BUT OTHER THAN THAT YOU KNOW WE ARE EXCITED TO BRING THIS PRODUCT TO THE AREA AND EXCITED FOR WHAT IT CAN DO TO THE CITY OF GREENVILLE. Mr. Patel, you're with what company again?

CN Hotels. CN?

Yeah.

Your first name, I'm sorry. Karan.

Karan. K-A-R-A-N. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So, yeah, we're excited.

That's all I wanted to know. I didn't know how that traffic pattern would work.

We did some preliminary studies with the traffic engineer of the city of Greenville to make sure that we're accommodating to what they would like as well, specifically on Evans Street. But there's also going to be an exit on Reed Circle as well because there was a concern that was brought up. And I think working with the traffic engineer, we have come up with a proposal that they are in favor or they're willing to accept as well.

Mr. Patel, just curious, do you have other hotels in the region?

Yeah, so our headquarters is based in High Point. Our closest hotel to Greenville would be, I guess, we have one in Jacksonville, North Carolina. It's a courtyard by Marriott. We have three in Wilmington, North Carolina, and then we have two hotels in Raleigh. And a few in Greensboro area. We kind of primarily work in the Carolinas as well. We've got here our companies over 40 years old. We've developed from ground up construction over 30 hotels as well. So, yeah. We like the North Carolina area.

Rooftop.

Yeah, you know, it's typically with the brand of the AC brand. And if you go to Raleigh, I think there's three ACs that have rooftops there that do very well. That is a staple of the community. People love it. It's comfortable. It's a restaurant. You know, it's got a nice aesthetic to it. And, you know, we kind of... want to make sure that it's a quality product for not only people visiting Greenville, but also for the town of Greenville, which is what has happened in Raleigh and across the U.S. really with the AC burn.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Patel. Thank you. Is there anyone else present to speak in support of the request? Seeing none, is there anyone present to speak in opposition to the request? Seeing none, the public hearing is closed, and I'll turn it over to board discussion.

There's a question for staff.

Yeah.

I have a question, Chante, real quick. Just just just a curious question. Just based on this rezoning, what other uses could be for the space? Or is it? It's not specific just to hotel or what limitations?

Explain that you have a list in your packet.

I didn't just for public interest that I'm sorry, I didn't see much of anything different.

No, it's not so fairly limited, right? Well, as far as the uses between the current and the proposed They're all about the same kind of uses, if you will. Really, the biggest incentive for anything that's CDF to go to CD is there's no setbacks, there's no vegetation, and there's no parking for commercial uses because you're already in an urban environment. There is public parking available. Many times in your downtowns, your buildings will literally be to the property line. So it's really just more of being able to take advantage of the site more so than the uses that you're gonna gain in going to CD. It's really more about the development style.

Right, so there's no, I know state statute, didn't they just change parking requirements?

All parking requirements will cease in January of 2027.

I knew that had been by state statute. That is correct. That would apply here, obviously, so there would be no parking requirements?

It doesn't apply until January. But in downtown, there's no parking standards for commercial in Greenville.

Okay. So where would, for example, hypothetically, where would they all park?

I'm sorry?

Where would they all park?

Well... If you would like to have a good property, you will provide some parking on site. Now, there is the option of public parking. There's the parking deck if you would want your visitors to use the parking deck. However, I would say that a wise person would have on-site parking. But again, the no setbacks, the no vegetation allows you to use your site to its fullest

biggest extent yeah i'm just trying to understand that in in regards to you know being a good neighbor with all your businesses around you and you know great product you know just trying to understand that a little better to get your answer so if there's just going from cdf to cd

The Greenville Hotel is still billed there, they just wouldn't have the two, the outright?

Right, yes. A hotel is allowed, but what that means is under CDF, you're going to have setbacks along Reed, setbacks along Evans, and then you're going to have buffer yards to marathon and then buffer yards to uh the bankruptcy court and so that eats up space so it's not if the hotel can be there it's just that's right yes it would really more severely i mean again we use the words all the time they will go vertical and then they will have parking surrounding the building somehow and you're really you're really limited common sense. You're really limited to the amount of parking that you can offer on site as opposed to having your guests walk from another direction.

You said you have the one in Wilmington, correct? The loft? No, not the loft. Anyways, it seems like a very similar site.

You want to come here?

I think we'll come here. But it's a very similar site. If you want to look it up, they have ample parking for the size of a hotel. It seems like it's right downtown Wilmington.

I mean, he could speak to it if you wish.

I assume that was the case.

I just should have asked that before.

My apologies. We plan to have plenty of parking as much as we can on the site. Again, we've constricted our ability to make it to have as much parking as we can because we know, I mean,

Most people coming to Greenville probably drive their car.

So we like, obviously, .

And when you say some parking, about what type of range are you speaking?

I would say, depending on how everything finally ends up laying out, I would say between 80 to 100. enough where we're comfortable.

And enough where guests can just stay on site. Correct.

We pride ourselves in operations, so having that kind of guest interaction is not ideal. Or someone would go on a party wherever and not stay. We're going to be investing a lot of money. We want people to be happy with their stay.

Thank you. Chair, two things. One, any motion would require that language, as you guys always know. And two, if we're going to have any back and forth, have an approach, just because it doesn't pick up on the states. Right.

I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to recommend approval of the proposed amendment to advise that it is consistent with the comprehensive plan and to adopt the staff report which addresses plan consistency and other matters.

Second. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion passes.

Congratulations.

Next item is a request by MMT Management LLC to rezone a total of 5.5 acres from R15S residential single family and R9S residential single family um those are both the same is that all right uh 2-0 office for the property located along the southern right-of-way of red banks road and 160 feet east of tucker drive presentation by ms gooby

This property is located in the southeast quadrant of the city. It's more specifically located along Red Banks Road. So just to the northwest of it, you have a middle school and then you have some various different names, single family neighborhoods to the other three sides. This property is made up of two parcels. So collectively, they're about five and a half acres. I'm sure most of you are familiar with this. It already has a building on it has a parking lot on it. In my time in Greenville, this has been a church has been a music school has been a couple of various different things. So that building is shown here. It's roughly about 10,000 square feet in size. And then this is the street at the end, so this is the stub out to the south that comes through the neighborhood. Again, this property, other than you do have the middle school to the northwest, and you also have the Memorial Baptist Church, basically it is a residential center. under the traffic counts since this property does have a portion of it that's vacant then we looked at the property as the 10 000 square foot building and then additional single family that could be added okay so we we looked at it holistically and not just at the building itself so under current zoning under full build out you're looking at about 356 trips Again, under proposed, we went ahead and looked at it as if the whole site was developed as office. And so you have a net increase of about 200 trips. As it stands right now, all of those trips would be on Red Banks Road. This property does not connect to Holly Briar. It's just a stub out. And here's Holly Briar right there. This property is not in a special flood hazard area. There are no jurisdictional wetland streams or buffers. The property does drain to to green smell run watershed. As is right now storm water rules do not kick in. However, if this were to be built out at some point, storm water rules apply, it would be 25 year detention. So currently the property has two different zonings at the top. I think this is green. It may not be clean. It's zoned are 15 s. And then toward the back, that brown, that is 9S. So those are both residential districts. Most of you know that this property is owned by Oakmont Baptist Church. And just to go ahead and just kind of make this easy to understand, in the city of Greenville, as is most places, any type of place of worship no matter what it is is allowed in all different all zoning districts okay so this is a church building that's been located on residential property that is fine that is okay but you do have a request in front of you for office zoning office zoning if you were to look at it as non-residential your commercial your industrial and your offices this is the most restrictive district we have it has the most limited list of uses that's allowed and then also most of those uses if you look at them are typically your eight to five kind of uses okay so the future land use plan does show this area and recommend this area for residential purposes that's what's shown in yellow however again with residential you usually have services such as churches or schools in neighborhoods and so you'll see that the even the church and the school properties are shown as residential And again, the office zoning, very limited with the list of uses. Office use is very compatible next to residential properties. So in staff's opinion, this request is in compliance, again, given that it's office zoning and it's very limited on the list of uses. And again, those uses are typically your daytime uses, meaning they're going to be there when you're not home. So in staff's opinion, this request is in compliance with the comprehensive plan and the land use plan, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

If the church owns it, and I'm thinking, I don't know who else is going to, why can't they just do what they're going to do anyway if it's considered a church?

I'll let the applicant, because what we have is the church has signed the rezoning application, giving the applicant permission to ask for the rezoning. So I'll let the applicant talk a little bit about what's going on. Just wanted to make sure you understood that it was a church there at one time and why a church is allowed on residential property.

Okay. Any other questions for Shantae? Thank you. The public hearing is open. The first speaker will have five minutes with each additional speaker having three minutes until 30 minutes has expired. Is there anyone present to speak in favor of this request? Please state your name for the record and you have five minutes.

Hello, I'm Byron Ains with the Overton Group and MMT management came to us about three or four months ago looking for space for a daycare facility. They're currently operating in Pitt County and they provide the facility that is having to be relocated. They serve 175 families in Pitt County from that location. for locations in eastern North Carolina. They are being impacted by the Evans Street widening project, which is the reason for looking for another location to continue to provide the service that they already provide here. It's been a challenge to find suitable land for their use or a building that's portable that allows the daycare facility to offer the services that they do at the prices that they do. And this building as it sits today almost works perfectly as is for a daycare. And so that I wanted to share that with you. That's the intended use. That's the reason why they're, requesting the rezoning, and as Shantai mentioned, there's already a building on the site, which makes it a little different than if it was just a raw piece of land that was looking to be rezoned to office in the middle of a neighborhood. But in this case, the use would fit really well with the building structure and would allow MNT management to continue to provide the services they do.

So just so I'm clear on your, so the intent is to use the existing structure? Correct. Yeah. Um, do you know, you, you may note in group, uh, is, is there also the possibility of like trailers or temporary structures? Maybe staff can tell me that I'm just trying to understand. how this property can be used. Because sometimes people will put daycare and then end up adding on mobile units and stuff. I want to make sure that's not a consideration because this is obviously a family district.

Sure. I can't speak to whether or not the mobile home option would be allowed.

It would be. I mean, it's modular, right? So commercial construction, whatever it may look like, would be allowed.

I can say that's not the intent. Of the applicant.

Okay.

Happy to answer any other questions if I can.

Any other questions for Mr. Ames? Thank you. Thank you. I'll remind the board, of course, that we need to consider all possible uses allowed by the rezoning. Is there anyone else present to speak in favor of the request? Seeing none, is there anyone present to speak in opposition to the request? If you're speaking in opposition, please come to the front and state your name for the record.

Good evening. My name is Bill Twine. I live at 319 Baytree Drive, which is back right up to this property. The gentleman that just spoke talked about using the existing building. That building sits right on Red Banks Road with some parking beside it. Our bigger concern is the land that also comes with that property. If you notice on your map, it's kind of an L-shape there. There's a lot of land behind it. What are they going to do with that? That's a buffer between, really, Baytree and Tucker. That also is one of the few green spaces still left in this town. I don't know that we need to build on every cotton picking green space there is. This is a treed area. It's a little mini forest. We have fox, we have owls, we have other birds, other hawks and things we've seen back there. I have pictures of fox coming out of the woods into my backyard, which I hadn't brought them. But anyway, you know, it's just not, you know, and looking at your what should be addressed conformance this doesn't conform to this neighborhood there is not a single commercial property between charles street or charles boulevard excuse me and 14th street so this is opening a can of worms to us you're now going to put a commercial property across the street from the school on the road that has no commercial properties it just doesn't seem to me to be conforming to anything that is already there It's also going to be a negative. Somebody mentioned, I think, an 8-to-5 business. Daycares are not 8-to-5. They open around 7, some 6-30, and they're there until 6 or 6-30. So it's not just an 8-to-5 business. I love kids. I was in Recreation and Parks when we retired from here 20 years ago. So I love kids, but this is not compatible to the neighborhood at all. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Twine?

I had a few questions. Sure.

When you say that it's not compatible to the neighborhood, what specifically are you saying? It's a business.

Yeah, it is a business.

And I mentioned there's no businesses at all.

Well, here's what happens, and we all know it. Once a business comes on these streets, same thing happens to every other street in Grable. You have a business there, and all of a sudden the houses beside it don't want to be there anymore. They start selling, and those become businesses. It doesn't fit with the long-term plan at all.

So you're worried about a domino effect in the neighborhood?

Yes, exactly. Once you put a business there, other things will become businesses. And it's a residential neighborhood. I've been there 40 years. I look around and see my neighbors. We've all been there 30 to 40 years. It's not a brand new neighborhood. And we like having that buffer back there, I can guarantee you. I also wonder too, when they come in and start building back there, where's the water going? This is a low area. We don't flood, but we have standing water every time it rains. So the whole neighborhood is very clay. It's an old farm. Well, it wasn't even farms, as you can tell by the old trees. The farmer that owned the land didn't even farm it because it just wasn't worth farming. So we have a lot of problems with standing water. They're gonna come in, they're gonna build it up. If they don't put in proper drainage, our yards flood every time it rains.

They are permitted under the current zoning, you know, without our approval of putting more houses.

Oh yeah. We had Alderton Sutherland came in a few years back and met with us and with some of the members of the neighborhood and they were thinking of doing this and they realized it was not beneficial. They couldn't put enough houses in given the roads and sewers and all that in to be able to do it and make a profit. So they quickly decided it wasn't worth it to them.

Thank you. Is there anyone else present to speak in opposition to the request? Please come up and state your name for the record.

My name is Hannah Collins. I'm also really bad at public speaking, so bear with me. I live at 1411 Hollybriar. I'm at the dead end where the sign is the rezoning. My house backs up to that building with the daycare and is neighboring the empty lot. When I grew up in New Bern in Trent Woods and it was in the early 90s and we all were outside and running around and playing and stuff like that and that does not happen really anymore and where I live is one of the only neighborhoods where I see kids You know, still on scooters and, you know, playing outside and they play little kickball games in that little lot and stuff like that. And then they also walk to and from school. They cut through that neighborhood. They cut through my front yard. I don't care. Because it's nice to see kids still even getting out and doing stuff like that rather than being on their phone. You know, that really bothers me. And if it was just the daycare and just that building, I'd be cool with it. But opening up that lot, it's just like Bill Twine said. I mean, it's just going to be a domino effect. And who's to say that they're not going to sit there and get the building, get the zoning, get what they want, and then turn around and sell that land to whoever who's going to put... movie theater there essentially because there's not that many sisters and limitations for the office stuff I just I think it's a really terrible idea if it's the whole lot like I said at the daycare anything like that on that little building that's fine but I just it does not need to go there the traffic is already bad That's exactly where the bus driver, the little stop sign guy is telling you to slow down and stop for the kids walking across. I don't see that. I see it as a big safety problem for the school. I mean, people don't know how to drive typically anyway. Then you want to add more children to the mix. I don't want it to happen, not to mention I feel like I'd have to put up a privacy fence. I wouldn't feel that safe, to be completely honest with you. I'm a single woman living in that house by myself. I do have a dog, but she's old and getting deaf. So that's about all the protection I have. I have cameras, but like I said, it opens it up for so many different things. And if they could cut that parcel and just have that building, I would be... That is easy to do. I would be completely fine with that. But as far as that, I'm terrified about that land in buildings, basically. Thank you.

Does anyone have any questions for Ms. Collins? No? Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else present to speak in opposition to the request? Come on up and please state your name for the record.

Yes. My name is Art and I'm a resident of Baytree as well as Mr. Twine. I agree with everything that Mr. Twine had to say. I have a question for you all though because I don't really know how this board works. When you have a lot like this or a request, Do you all actually go out and take a look at the property and all of you to see exactly what you're voting in and voting out? I don't know how this works.

We're not taken on like a field trip by the city. I think sometimes county planning does that. Yeah. Individual members may or may not go out to look at the site.

So when you all vote on this. To answer your question. Yes, sir.

I do.

Yeah, I do.

I would recommend you all, before you vote on this, or at least have three, four, five members go out there and take a look at this beautiful property. Everybody's talking about the red banks. I understand that. That's an existing building. It's an easy move for these guys. It takes care of their problem. It's already set up. If all the traffic goes in and out of Redbanks, I understand that. I think what the major problem here is, is this piece of lot is actually the biggest piece, if you look at it on your map, the L shape, the big part of the L. That's the biggest piece. That is completely wooded area, full of animals, like Mr. Twine said. I sit out there at nighttime and listen to owls all the time. This is fantastic. But it's a gorgeous spot. And we don't know what these people are going to do with this. And that's what our main concern is. We don't know where these roads are going to go. There are 40, 50-foot pine trees out there that have been there for years and years and years. And I'm not a tree hugger or anything by any means. But it is a beautiful spot. And I'm concerned with that because it's the only green spot, if you look around, in aerial view that's really solid from all the way to Ficklin Stadium. So I would challenge you all to take a look at this spot. It's an easy drive. You can park and walk out there. I walk my dog out there every morning. It's a beautiful place. And take a look. That's my main concern is what's going to happen with that property back behind there. How are they going to use that? Are they going to tear down all the trees, put a road in there and build office buildings? Because if they do, there's going to be issues with water, like Mr. Twine has said, and with the way the property looks itself. So I would challenge you all to, if you could, take a look at that property. It would, I think, make your decision a little bit easier by looking at it.

Thank you. We need to vote on it tonight, but point taken.

I'm just really, you know, so y'all as a whole, when you vote on these things, you normally don't look at the properties, you just read the information that you all have?

No, I...

I know you said that you go out there and I can thank you for that. I would think that that would be a major responsibility. I know you can't if you have 18 things on your agenda, but when there's only two... I would just challenge you all to maybe consider that in the future because, as Mr. Twine said, there's not a lot of these spaces that are available that are left. And if we continue to build upon these, like he said, I think it's going to be a domino effect. And you could see a beautiful area by schools is right across the street from the junior high. They go down pretty quickly. I would challenge you all to check that out. All right. That's what I've got to say. Thank you, Mr. Granville. Thank you.

How much time do we have left in the public period? 18 minutes. 18 minutes, so plenty of time. Is there anyone else present to speak in opposition to the request? Seeing none, I'll close. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Please state your name for the record.

Michelle Woodliffe. I live on Red Banks, actually, diagonal from the proposed location. And I just want to point out that it says future land use character map. that this would never have been the original intent to make this industrial. And I've personally been in that location when it was a church, when it was a music academy, and I can pretty much, I don't think it's gonna accommodate 175 families. You said 175, right? It's not gonna accommodate. So they're gonna have to extend. So while it may sound nice to put the children in this building, they're going to need more space. And I just don't think I know red veins road cannot accommodate that much traffic. I see it. So thank you.

Is there anyone else present to speak in opposition to the request? All right. Seeing none, the public hearing is closed, and I'll turn it over to the board for discussion.

I have a question for Shante. Yes. Okay. A brief looking at OPUS. The R15S portion is exactly where the parking lot and the building is. Is that correct? And under R15, it's already allowed to be a child care facility with a special use permit.

Okay.

Does that sound right?

So yes, under our 15 or 15.

And that's what it's owned as. And then office is also a special use. So it doesn't really open up any more uses for them if it is to be a child daycare facility. Right. Okay. So the main thing we'd be changing is the R9S to an office, which would open up that area more than

change what our 15 that's correct the 15s it's not really going to change that much um but if i understood correctly i think it comes as two whole pieces and not a portion of what they are trying to to accomplish with the two whole pieces so it's wholly owned by the by the church that whole piece both pieces yes

Well, I think what was just said indicates that the applicant could do exactly what they want to do with the new zoning with what's already there. With the old zoning, excuse me.

What is, where's my cursor? In less space.

Yeah. Right, in the...

But it already has a long red bank building that they're already saying they're going to use. Yes. So theoretically, go on the journey with me, Shantae. Theoretically, it's a long journey. It is a long journey. I'm sorry. Theoretically, if they're not planning to build out, then it's fine the way it is.

I don't know if you want to let the applicant speak to explain that. I guess my.

Just in the hypothetical scenario.

My own thought, though, is that if they were to lease it or buy it, they would be taking on a piece of property that would not be useful to them. That's the only counter. But theoretically, yes, they could move into the building and the existing parking lot and try to function within the 15S.

Are we allowed to bring up Mr. Ainsback to answer that?

If you have a question for him, I think so.

Are you good with what she said? We all might learn something right here.

So you answered a question earlier and I just want to clarify the the R-50 desk, a special use permit would allow a daycare facility. Yes. But because that parcel and you're correct that we're looking at a package sale, I don't think there's any appetite from the sellers to sell one or two or just part of the parcels.

Yeah.

And so that puts us in a position where if if they're going to go and apply for that, it would encompass all of that land now could we potentially subdivide that land out and ex that that's something we haven't really explored we're at the first step of figuring out how to make this work there's um memorial baptist church operates a preschool in their facility same zoning right across the street obviously you've got a school there as well so it's not like there's a there's no child care type activity happening right along in that area. I certainly understand the concerns that were raised and if there's a way to kind of figure out how we can subdivide it and satisfy the sellers, I think that MMT management would be open to that. I just don't, I didn't know that that was an option.

And does that fall under conditional zoning, meaning that it doesn't?

This is a general use, so it's completely office, right? But it does run you into, like you say, tripping you up with the 9S. And you might. You're taking two parcels and making two parcels, so you might be able to do that through staff review. I don't know where that leaves you with the portion left over.

I guess what I'm asking, if it's like it is now, and say, for example, the daycare center goes into what it is now, And they want to use portion of that extended L to do, to accommodate the 172 people, right? Are they allowed to do conditional zoning and it not be rezoned for that?

Or does it, you mean if the nine S stays the way it is, right? If it stays just like it is, and they would still have to come back and get it rezoned to something, right? What I mean is, um, they, They would have to, again, do office and daycare. But the way it's zoned now, 9S, that leaves you with single-family homes. So it leaves them with something that may not be what they're looking to develop.

But theoretically, could they make it all R15S and still do what they want? with the special use permit, of course, being factored in.

That could always work.

I'm not going to say that's what you guys want, but it's just a hypothetical.

And just to say this, this is in no way to speed you up, but with general statutes changing and moving, as it always does, The commission basically has 30 days to act on a request or it goes to council without your recommendation. So, you know, Byron and I can work on the logistics if he wanted to change it or maybe go a different route. But I would say for tonight, you need to do something, whatever that may be. You do need to make a recommendation to council.

And for the people that are listening, when I say conditional zoning, it also brings the neighborhood into a conversation with what goes on on that lot. That's all I was just trying to understand what could possibly be there.

Can I make two comments real quick? One, I think that a conditional zoning would be, that's an open conversation with the applicant. And then just the other thing, there was a question about the building size and what it can accommodate. The facility that is in the way of the Evans Street project, is 8,000 square feet, and they service this 175 families from that location. So this building is larger than where they're at now.

So again, just to reiterate our conversation before, the plan is to use the existing structure and not to add on or develop.

Yes.

but we're saying that that could be done now under special use permit.

Well, right. I'll be honest with you. I'm still not exactly sure how that would work. And then if we can go back and we're, this is the applicant does not control the property. So there's, there'd be some work to do to figure out if that's something that sellers would work with us. Um, and potentially they would, I think we'd be open to that, but I just don't know tonight if that's an option.

So did you mention that you're actually like a representative and you're not the applicant?

Correct. I'm not the applicant. I'm a commercial real estate broker. And again, MMT management came to us and said, hey, the state is kicking us out of our building and all of these families are not going to have...

place to send their kids okay thank you uh when you say 175 families are served uh how many just flat out kids would that be i mean are you mean i'm not i know you can't just yes yeah probably i mean when when you're saying 175 families some families may have three in there some might have one and so we could have anywhere from 175 on up which is what they already have in 8,000 square feet, it sounds like.

Correct.

Okay.

And I think that includes some after school programs as well.

Yeah. Just for my edification, you I'm sure you show them a lot of other options as well. This just turned out to be a lot of options.

No, so for daycare. Correct. It's got a special use permit and and many, many different zonings across the city, including office, right? Including office. Yeah. So we will still have to seek that. if the property is rezoned.

All right. Kimber, did you have a question?

Not for him. I have a question.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other questions?

No.

All right.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, I had a, you know, as far as the green space, I totally can – until it's in your backyard, you don't think about it as much. But I understand what everyone is talking about, how nice the wooded area is, and it's kind of a mini paradise, I guess, for animals and whatnot. It looks like there's a 30-foot gas easement just ahead of that wooded area. I'm assuming there's a high-pressure gas main within that 30-foot easement. I don't know that, but obviously there are certain things that cannot be done over that easement. I wonder if there could be a meeting of the minds if the applicant could possibly, I understand we have to do something tonight, but could there be the chance of preserving that as perpetual green space? and not using the back parcel or excuse me the back of that parcel to the south uh that is existing all the existing wooded area if that could remain green space it seems like that might be a uh happy medium it still would leave room for some other expansion but yet you've got the gas easement which is not going anywhere i don't know what size line is underground or where that's sending natural gas. But if it's a 30 foot easement, there's probably, you know, several facilities underground there anyway. So just didn't know if that could possibly be an option to kind of horse trade a little bit and have a make it mutually beneficial as much as possible. Leave that green space, which would help with the potential of drainage issues if it was cleared and and uh just an idea um shantae can can that what was just described can that be built upon i don't know i do not know i see it but i do not know the encumbrances of it that would be good to know

Well, they can figure it out and come back with another request.

I think the part of it is that they don't have to expand into that if they don't want to.

If they don't want to buy the property if they can't use it for anything, I guess.

But if they don't plan to, and the problem is office buildings. If we're talking about compromises, I'm going to go into a compromise. let's make it let's bring it back and let's bring in all our 15s so that no office buildings can be put because they still have to go through the exact same special use permit requests that they would have to do and it would solve it would solve the problems of preserving the green space because i don't think a daycare is going to build residential housing because i think that would be a interesting business combination and but hey you never know So if they were to bring it back to us as R15S, I think that would solve everybody's problems without going into easements and who's the what's it.

But doesn't the R15S permit the child care? And so if they wanted to tear down the green area to expand the child care, they would be able to do it. Whereas right now you can only put houses there.

I'm not going to speak for them, but I think it would make more sense that the child care expand than office buildings.

That's the challenge because you can never predict what's going to actually happen on property. I've been around for a long time. And sometimes that works out. Sometimes it don't.

Well, but if we put office there, it's not going to work out. There's a lesser chance of it working out.

Well, that's always plan C, not approving it.

Right. We have to vote on the proposal in front of us. Right. Unfortunately. Right. Are we ready for a motion?

We think all this.

Well, if a church get there, a church can actually do what they want to do anyway and do away with the grass and the greenery and stuff. It's just more so we just got to make sure that whatever we rule on, that's just going to be what it is. So we have to take that into consideration.

Yeah, just... This is one of those, I look at this map, and I see a lot of yellow. And once you step in one direction, it's hard to pull that step back. This is one of those, you know, for an area that's been here for a long time with a lot of good families, I'd feel more comfortable making sure we had some more questions answered. Therefore, I would make the motion to deny, to recommend, I guess the motion to recommend denial of the proposed amendment. To advise it is inconsistent with the right?

Although it is consistent.

Ah, that's in debate. Yeah, it says it's not traditional to medium. Okay, so which one do I read?

I think what staff said. So staff said, yeah.

So it is or is not future land use? Is it office or is it residential on the future land use map?

Traditional to medium density. Okay.

It is residential. Okay. So we're doing that going to office. And so when you said it was consistent with it, it's that the statement was that office space is consistent with a residential area? An office use. An office use. It's compatible. It's compatible. Sorry. So which one am I?

Which one am I?

You need to do the first of the denials. Although it is consistent, you recommend denial. Which one? Second from the bottom.

Motion to recommend denial of the proposed amendment to advise that although the proposed amendments is consistent with the comprehensive plan, there is more appropriate zoning classification and to adopt the city staff report, which addresses the plan's consistency. Motion to denial. Second.

All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion before we vote or rush anybody? All right. All those in favor of this motion, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed to this motion, please say nay. The motion passes. So the proposal is denied. Recommended denial to City Council. Yeah, sorry. Power hungry there. And we've reached the end. Is there a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn. Second.

All those in favor of adjournment, say aye. Aye. We're adjourned.