Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We're not ready yet. Is that the alcohol? Thank you. Well, it's 4:30 uh on March 26, Thursday, we'll open the planning commission for the city of New. First order of business is uh make sure we have quorum and we do. So we'll go move on to minutes then. Has everybody read them? Are there any comments? Linda, you've usually catched something. Nothing fine. Looked fine. They look good. Then do we have a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as presented. Anybody second that? Kate, second that. All those in favor of approving them say I.

I. I. Anybody against it? Quiet. Okay. They are approved unanimously. Let's move on then into our public hearings. We have two of them tonight. The first one is um Scooters Drive-Through Coffee Shop. Um it is planned to be in a building on the corner of Fourth and Broadway. And we're looking specifically at hearing a request for a conditional use permit for the drive-thru for the coffee shop. John, no. Okay, David.

The um property is zoned B4, which is Central Business District. The applicant is Brent Skilbread. The property owner is SLD Properties LLC. Legal description is lot 8 through 10, block 69 North of Center Street. Street address is 318 to 326 North Broadway. And as was indicated, the property is generally located east of North Broadway and south of 4th North Street. Deadline for a decision on this matter is May 10th, 2026. The comprehensive plan land plan land use designation for this property is downtown mixed use. Surrounding land uses to the north is low density residential and then to the east, south and west it is all downtown mixed use. The zoning of the property as indicated previously is B4. uh surrounding zoning to the north it's RT2 which is traditional neighborhood single and two family residence district to the east B4 to the south is R4 which is a high density residence district and to the west it's B2 which is a general business district. Current site land use uh the site is vacant. It's actually in the process of being prepared for uh the construction of a building. Uh the site was a former location of variety of different residential and commercial buildings. Current area land uses to the north are

single family dwellings. To the east is the glock and spiel commercial buildings and then there's a vacant lot. To the south are the Broadway House Apartments and to the west is AMI and then single family dwellings. Notice of the meeting was provided to all property owners within 350 ft of the subject property and published in the journal on March 14th, 2026. Public comments, there have been none to date. The application is submitted on behalf of Scooters Coffee, which would be located on the south side of the building. The purpose of the B4 district is to provide for the development and redevelopment of the established downtown core, including a mix of retail, financial, office, service, entertainment, public activities, and appropriately located residential uses. There are only three development standards in the B4 zoning district. Uh, two of them are yard setbacks. So, we have an interior side abuing a residential district, a 10-ft setback, and then a rear yard abuing a residential district of 20 ft. Then we have a maximum height in this district of 45 ft. The standards that would apply are the are the interior side abuing a residence district of 10 ft and the height standard of 45 ft. The applicant is proposing to locate a drive-thru

service for the Southerntherly Business. That's the Broadway House side of the building. and see attachment three which shows the location of the driveth through service route. Scooters coffee will have no interior service for customers but it will have a walk up window facing the parking lot area. A drive-thru service is defined in the zoning ordinance as a facility which accommodates motor vehicles and from which the occupants of the motor vehicles may make purchases or transact business, including stacking spaces in which motor vehicles wait. Examples include, but are not limited to, drive up windows, menu boards, order boards or boxes, drive-in restaurants, and drive up banks. Drive-thru facility shall not include the direct refueling of motor vehicles. The proposed use that has been submitted qualifies as a drive-thru service. The drive-thru service is also subject to the standards in the accessory use section of the city's zoning ordinance. A copy of table 9-5 accessory uses by district is provided as attachment 7. A drive-thru service is permitted in the B4 zoning district with a conditional use permit. Section 9.3 accessory use standards. Item nine identifies development standards for a drive-thru service. I will uh provide you with what that

list is. Um number one, service provided by the drive-thru facility is accessory to an interior on-site service within the same structure. Number two, drive-thru lanes shall be designed to avoid disruption of pedestrian vehicular traffic flow both on and off site. Number three, drive-through lanes shall not be located between the restaurant entrance and customer parking spaces whenever possible. Number four, landscaping and other site improvements are included which screen automobile stacking space from the public street. Number five, voice amplifiers used in conjunction with drive-thru services shall not be audible to adjoining residential areas. Number six, minimum stacking space shall be provided per the requirements of section 10.7L. Number seven, a solid screen fence at least 6 ft in height and complying with section 10.3 fences and walls shall be constructed along the property line when said use abut any residential zoning district. And number eight, a driving lane may not cross a front property line street on a property designated as a historic preservation landmark or district. This project will need to comply with standards 2, four, five, and seven. The project is in compliance with the remaining standards. I'll go through the standards that they

need to comply um with. Uh standard number two, there are doors from all three businesses that open onto the drive-thru lane, but those doors are for emergency use only. So, there are doors on the alley side of the building and there are doors on the driveth through side of the building. The main doors are the ones on the alley side. Standard number four, landscaping will be provided as required by the standards that we have. Standard number five, any audio equipment will be programmed so that it is not audible to residents in surrounding residential dwelling units, particularly the Broadway house. That would be the closest residential u building to the site. Then standard 7 applicant will need to provide a fence that complies with the requirements on the south property line of the property. And that particular need has been um discussed with the um engineer and the landscaped architect for the project. The total square footage of the building is 6,135 square ft. The building will be divided into three stores. Their square footage by section are as follows. The northernmost one is 1,040 square ft. The center one is 3,330 square ft. And the southern one is 1,765

square ft. So the southern um section is the one in which scooters would be located. Total number of parking spaces will be 42. There are no parking requirements in the B4 zoning district. Parking lot will be located between the alley and the building. The main parking entrances, we talked about this, will be on the alley side of the property. Building doors, as indicated previously, will be located on the west side of the building as well. A drive-thru service is a conditional accessory use in the B2, in the institutional other zone, in the commercial manufacturing zone, and in the mixeduse Turner zone. It is a permitted accessory use in the B2, B3, which is a community commercial district, I1 planned industrial district, and I2 general industrial district. A drivethru based on the use must have a minimum number of stacking spaces. Table 10-9 of the zoning ordinance requires a minimum of sacking spaces for a retail commercial use of three spaces. There is another um possible uh category that would apply to this particular use and that is a um it's for a coffee type of um

for a drive-through restaurant.

It's a drive-thru restaurant. Okay. And for a drive-thru restaurant, you need to have four spaces from the menu board and four spaces from the window where the product is um given to the um individual in the vehicle. Um the proposed use will comply with the standards for both of those um categories. The um application provides the following information on the building and the drive-thru. Um number one, the project is a proposed shell building with a scooter's coffee end cap with a drive-thru. Number two, they plan to have a landscape buffer or block wall to control headlight cast off noise and traffic per the city code. Number three, a drive-thru in the proposed district will not alter the appearance or character of the area. Number four, the development and operation of a drive-thru will not hurt the economic welfare of the community. Number five, the design thoughtfully and intentionally considers traffic congestion, circulation, and parking to be as efficient as possible. Number six, the benefits of a local drive-through coffee shop outweigh the negatives. It will draw customers to the central district and drive commerce for the city. Consideration for application approval. In order to recommend approval of the permit, the commission will need to determine that the request complies with the review criteria found in section 2.4D4 4 D4 of appendix A of the city code. These

criteria can also be found on the findings of fact form. Uh secondly, the planning commission and city council must make an affirmative finding on all criteria listed in order to grant a conditional use permit. The applicant has the burden of proof to show that all of the criteria have been satisfied. Section B is attachments. I assume John will show you the attachments as um go through them. Attachment one is the application. Attachment two is the site location map. Attachment three is the building layout and the traffic flow map for the drive-thru. And if John if you maybe would like to show where that runs from.

Sure. So um this first part of attachment three is looking straight overhead. The area or box in green is the location of the scooters um business in that building. Um, I do have a blue arrow showing the approximate location of the drive-through pickup window and then the red arrows indicate the traffic flow um through through the drive-thru. I would note that it's a one-way alley. So, if they go out to the alley, they'll need to take a right. Um, but the second um part of attachment three um is is a building ren rendition that we received. Um what we're looking at here on the top is the full length of the building and this is the Broadway facing side of the building. Um the scooters did indicate that they do want a sign above their uh storefront facing Broadway and you'll you'll see that later in the attachments here. Um but um the rem remainder of the uh signage for those businesses um are shown on the parking lot side since the customers will be pulling into that uh side of the business. And then this uh this other rendition is uh facing or it'd be like standing at um the apartments looking north to the uh pickup window. Uh scooters also submitted their uh stacking plan and flow of traffic through the through the site. Um this is what their building face would look like. Um as a franchise they they're um kind of tied to these colors. And from the scooters that we've seen across the state, they're all the same color. There's tan, black, um, and sometimes wood or or brown, that type of color.

Okay. Section four. Are there any questions about what John just went through? What is stacking? Um, what is that referring to? Um, that would be one car behind another. Oh,

so your your your driving lane is only wide enough for one vehicle. So you end up with a line of cars potentially. And so um minimum standards are established for that so that you don't have vehicles um going out into the street um or into an alley. Thank you. Um, attachment number four is the zoning map. Attachment five is the site map. Attachment six are the ground level photographs. Uh, there's currently a fence around the uh site. Attachment seven are accessory uses by district. And in yellow is the um drive-thru uh line. And then attachment 8 is the staff completed findings of fact form. Um item C staff recommendation um is found on the findings of fact form. Um item D is conditions. Uh, number one is that the applicant property owner will pay the cost to record the permit with the Brown County Recorders Office. Number two, all business activities will take place within the new building as provided in the submitted architectural documents. Number three, uses on the property shall comply with the city of New Almise Restriction Regulations found in section 8.08 08 of the city code. Four, the owner will remove from the grounds and surrounding properties any debris or garbage associated with or generated by the activities on the site.

Five, there will be no exterior storage permitted on the property. Six, the project will comply with the city's landscape regulations. Number seven, the applicant will provide a garbage disposal area in compliance with the city zoning regulations and they do have a site um identified for that particular use. Um eight applicants signed plan will provide sufficient signage advising customers of the businesses in the building and that the alley adjoining the property is a one-way alley proceeding in a north to south direction. I would note that we do have a cap on the amount of signage that you can have, you know, uh for a particular building. So that's something that they'll have to work within that uh requirement. And then finally uh or no number nine, applicant will attempt to preserve the two trees located in the northeast corner of the property. We've got two large trees in that particular location and if possible we would like to uh have them save them. that's in the location where the um garbage disposable disposal area would be and also some of the utility uh structures are going to be located in that location too. So it's difficult to know if they'll be successful with that or not. And then finally um section 9.3 accessory use standards item nine identifies the zoning regulations that the drive-thru service shall comply with. Uh item E is potential motions. There's a motion to approve and then there is a motion to reject. That would conclude the staff report.

Do we have any questions of staff before we open for the public hearing? Public comment. I've got none. Pretty thorough report. Just got one question. And do do we have any um details on landscaping on headlight wash screening and Yeah, we have actually um been going back and forth with the landscape designer for this project. Okay.

Um we actually met with them was it yesterday morning? Um again um to discuss the fence and also the the landscape plan they had already submitted. Um, our reaction to that was actually potentially reduce some of the land amount of landscaping uh because they really uh stacked it in there. I would note that their um their plan is either perennial grasses that are 4 feet or less try um along the um along the drive-thru lane that's abuing the sidewalk um or a perennial hedge there um of the same height to try to reduce that headlight uh headlights going into Broadway. We've also asked them to incorporate some type of um um some type of trees, probably evergreens at that corner in particular as as the vehicles are driving south. So when they turn to go to the pickup window, they won't be shining their headlights into Broadway. So we're waiting on them to incorporate some of that into the into the plan.

And they didn't necessarily have any push back. Okay. All right. Well, if we have nothing more amongst commissioners, we'll open it for any public comment. And if you'd like to add something, please step up to the podium there and give us your name and address. Quiet. I see none. If we have no comments on this public hearing, I'll close it. Bring it back to us. Um, have we all read the findings of fact and are we okay with them? Yes. Yes,

I have just one question, John or David. The um number two is talking about um is referring to housing. I don't understand what that's for. Um it might be left over from something else. item uh or criteria number two talks about the comprehensive plan. Mhm.

And so I was making reference to the fact that the only location in which um we talk about um had to do with um the um with the with the structure um and that was the only location in the comprehensive plan where it was mentioned. So that's why I noted that it uh was in the housing section that we found

um reference to a detached structure. Got it. All right. Okay. Key word is detach. All right. Uh are we good with all the findings in fact then? Yes. Are we okay waving the reading? Yes. Yes. Good. Super. Then we're ready for some kind of a motion.

I'll go ahead and offer a motion to recommend approval with conditions. is the applicant of Brent Skilbread on behalf of SD SLD Properties LLC to allow the operation of a drive-thru service for Scooters Coffee on property zone B4, Central Business District, as shown on the approved building plans for the project and located on property legally described as lot 8 through 10, block 69, north of Center Street, City of New, Brown County, Minnesota. I'll second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Anybody opposed say no.

All right, we've passed that unanimously. And we'll move on to the second and final public hearing tonight or this afternoon, whatever that is. Um, and this is a request from Craig Portner who is at 1023 North Valley for conditional use permit to allow residential accessory structure. I look at that as a garage to be built sort of across the street at 10:16 North Valley. Staff, have you got a report to present?

All right, you bet. John Nisley, planner with the city of New. Um, this is a conditional use permit to allow the construction of a 28x32 detached accessory structure. That is one on a lot that is non-conforming in size and two on properties owned RT2. That's the traditional neighborhood single and two family residence district. The applicant um is Craig T. Porter. He's also the property owner. Uh the legal description is part of lot 11, block 10, north of Center Street. Um the street address for this property would be 1016 North Valley Street. And the property is generally located between North Valley Street and the Railroad to the east and between 10th and 11th North Streets. The proposed construction of a 28 uh the proposed or sorry description of the use uh is proposed construction of a 28x32 that's a 896q ft detached accessory structure structure shall meet uh the residential detached accessory structure standards found in appendix A including the maximum building size of 1,000 square ft and maximum height of 16 ft tall. Um a deadline for a decision on this application is May 8th, 2026. The comprehensive plan uh designates uh this property as lowdensity residential. Surrounding land uses um by the comprehensive plan. To the north is lowdensity residential. To the east is industrial. To the south and west are also both lowdensity residential. Zoning designation for the property is RT2. That's the uh traditional neighborhood single and two family residence district. To the north is RT2. To the east is I2. That's the general general industrial district. To the south is RT2. And then to the west is RT2.

Currently the site is uh vacant with a small residential accessory structure that is to be removed. So there's no um there is no house on the property. Um, current area land uses. To the north are two single family homes with accessory buildings and a detached residential accessory structure on a non-conforming lot with no permitted use. If you remember, that one came to the planning commission a few years ago um for approval. Uh to the east is the railroad and then industrial businesses. To the south are two vacant non-conforming lots. uh a lot a non-conforming lot with a detached residential structure uh with no permitted use. And then to the west, we have a single family residences with their associated residential uses. Notice was published in the journal on March 14th uh and mailed to property owners within 350 ft of the subject property. Um regarding public comments, we did receive one email with concerns on the con uh conditional use permit consideration. We've included that in your uh agenda packets. But to summarize what those uh concerns were were um that this structure would be too close to the property lines um that it would be um large and not fit the um not fit the character of the neighborhood and that the height of the structure would be uh too high. Um, I would note that, um, anytime, uh, we're we're looking at this, uh, specific type of conditional use permit in a residential zoning district, uh, that type of structure is required to meet all residential detached accessory structure standards. So, it shouldn't uh look or feel any different than any other detached residential structure that's permitted in that zoning district.

Uh zoning definition uh section 13.2 rules. An accessory building is a building on the same lot with and of a nature customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal structure. So in a residential district, this would be an accessory building. Principal structure would be the house. Um specific accessory use standards for residential uses. Section 9.3B3B detached accessory structure states that if a lot is non-conforming in size and not abuing a lot with a permitted use and owned by the owner of the non-conforming lot, an accessory building may be allowed on the non-conforming lot with the issuance of a conditional use permit. Section 9.3B4 residential accessory structures. Uh these are specific standards for all residential accessory structures. Um accessory structure space is to be utilized solely for the storage of residential personal property of the occupant of the principal dwelling and no accessory structure spaces to be utilized for commercial purposes. Uh private accessory structure shall be used by the family or families residing on the premises. Um, no business, service, or industry shall be carried on within a private accessory structure unless unless authorized by an interim use permit. Private accessory structures shall not be used for the storage of more than one commercial vehicle that is owned or operated by the resident uh per dwelling unit. I would note that even though this is a conditional use permit and there may be different conditions attached to it, these uh specific standards still apply. Um, in addition to whatever the commission recommends for additional uh conditions, um, a detached residential accessory structure uh, must be set back 5 ft from

the side um, and rear property lines and cannot exceed 16 ft in height. It also has to be set back 30 ft from the front yard property line. Uh total lot area for this specific uh property is.12 acres or 5,227 square ft. A standard RT2 lot is.19 acres or 8,250 ft. The lot is trapezoidal in shape uh with the north property line being a length of 100 ft and the south property line being a length of 106 ft and the lot width is 50 ft. A standard RT2 has typical dimensions of 50 by 165. There's currently a small residential structure on the property that is to be removed prior to the construction of a new 28x 32 detached accessory structure. The property has full utility service available. Water sewer is is already stubbed into the lot. Gas in the street and electric into the lot. New curb cut uh onto North Front Street uh will be needed to need to be constructed to access the structure. Uh the city engineer has reviewed the site and the curb cut is allowed at this location. The owner of the property lives at 102023 North Valley Street uh just northwest of the property u being considered for this conditional use permit. The applicant provided the following information on the application um on the proposed use. I'm proposing to construct a residential-sized accessory structure on a residential lot. I live in proximity to the non-conforming lot. The railroad has cut up the properties along this city block and there are existing residential detached accessory structures on the half block. The project would fit the existing development of the block. Um we were we are only proposing to use the building

for residential purposes and it should fit well with the other residential structures in the neighborhood. Um some unique circumstances related to this property. Um the property being considered again is non-conforming in size in both uh in in size and dimension for the RT2 zoning district. Um, there are other residential detached accessory structures without a permitted use to the north and south within a half block of this one. The lot has not had a residential dwelling constructed on it previously and has remained undeveloped since the original city plat. Uh, the railroad directly abuts the rear of this property. Um, and the railroad crossing through is the reason that there's a number of um non-conforming lots in this neighborhood in particular. Um, and that the owner of the vacant lot lives within a half block of this property. Um, I would note I I I went through and took a look to see if there were any other properties in which this specific provision would apply in the RT2 zoning district. And there's um there's actually four other properties that this could apply to. They're all within a twob block area of of this particular property that we're talking about. And it's entirely because the railroad cut off the backside of these properties and made them uh much less deep. Um, other than that, there aren't any other uh places uh in the city that I could find at this time that have these uh that would meet this non-conforming lot provision. Um staff did provide an evaluation in attachment six, the response to the findings of fact. Um and in order to recommend approval of this uh conditional use permit request, uh the planning commission will need to adopt findings of facts and recommendations using the review criteria as provided on

the findings of facts form in attachment six. Uh the planning commission and city council must make affirmative actions, sorry, affirmative findings on all CUP criteria in order to grant this request. The applicant has the burden of proof to show that all the findings of fact criteria have been satisfied. Uh there were seven attachments. Um the first one is the application by Mr. Portner. Uh the second one is the site location map. This is probably the best one to take a look at the railroad. So um the railroad runs right here. The four lots I was uh talking about. There's one lot here, two lots right here, and then there's a third lot, or sorry, a fourth lot down here. So, those are the only four um lots that um something like this could be considered on. Attachment three is the zoning map. Attachment four is the site map with the proposed uh location of the detached accessory structure. As you can see, there's underneath here, there's an existing smaller structure that's to be removed um and replaced with a new structure.

John, could you back up to that last this one? Yeah, sure. So, the when you're looking at this at street level, it looks to me like the the garage, the accessory structure we're talking about now are removing and the garage just immediately to the north of it, they look like they're all sided similarly. Were they owned by same person at one time. Okay. Yes, they were. So, this one will be taken down and a new one will be put up. Correct. Okay. And then the garage to the north of it, is that owned by the people who live on the budding lot or? Yes. Okay.

This is the principal structure. This is the house. Um and that same property owner this lot as well with accessory structure. Okay. They did own this lot as well and then sold it to Mr. Porter. Okay. Thank you. Did at one time did that have a conditional use permit to allow that small accessory structure on that extra lot? Not that I found. Not that we found.

No. So in that's a great question though. In the past, um, prior to 2022, the allowance of a detached accessory structure without a permitted use or residence um, in the residential zoning district, in particular in this area was done through a variance process. And in 2022, to make that a more clean and um, understandable process, we um, made it a conditional use permit process.

All right. Yep. Um, and then I had uh three photos. This is facing northeast. So, this uh this is the shed we're we're all referring to that's going to be removed. Um, this is facing directly towards the railroad tracks or to the east. Um, here's another shot. And then lastly, attachment six is the findings effect. Uh we have four conditions uh listed here if recommended for approval. One, the applicant shall pay the cost to record the conditional use permit with the Brown County Recorders Office. Two, the applicant shall comply with all the st all the standards for accessory uses in the RT2 zoning district. Three, that there shall be no exterior storage on the property. Four, the detached structure uh shall not be used for commercial purposes. And actually, as I was thinking through this this afternoon, we probably should add a fifth one. Um, and that is accessories, structures in the property shall not exceed 1,000 uh square feet just to ensure that um he knows that and that we have that in writing. Um, we provided two potential motions. Um, one to recommend approval with conditions and then one to recommend denial. And that would conclude the staff report. Uh, commissioners, do we have any questions of John before we open it for public hearing?

So, the um proposed um size of the accessory structure meets meets the guidelines. I'm trying to think about the um concern from the neighbor that they thought it would be too large. Right. It does. It does meet the guidelines. Um, and even in fact, if you were to submit a building permit tomorrow for this, we go through those zoning standards one more time to ensure it meets those guidelines. And what's the height of the What's the proposed height for the structure? Max, it's going to be 16 ft max height. 16.

Sure. And I'm assuming that that maximum height is going to be at the peak be pitched roof and tallest point of the building. You know that we don't require them to have necessarily a pitched roof. It could it could be a monosslope roof as well. Okay. Do we know if there's any plans to hook up sewer and water? Is it possible on an accessory structure? Yeah. Okay. All right. Any other thoughts before we open the public hearing?

If um if the property owner wanted to build an additional structure on the lot, is that allowed? You you' be That's a good question. No, you'd have to go through a conditional use permit again. I I would assume. Well, it would have to be a an accessory structure because well, unless it was a primary structure, I suppose. uh if they wanted to build a house there somehow, that would be permissible since that's a permitted use in that zoning district. Okay.

Um so there are a series of permitted uses in the zoning district that would be allowed there. Um but the house is probably the primary one and given the size of the parcel that would be difficult to do. to kind of follow up on Kate's question then. Um, by is it possible to amend the condition use permit to have a second accessory structure, a little shed or something? I think that might have been the intent of your question. Or even a a tiny house or a shelf. Oh, I see. Well, we I think we have minimum uh size square footagees for houses, correct?

Yeah. That wouldn't be permissible then with the structure, you know, with the current lot size. Yeah. 720 square ft, I believe. Correct. So, it wouldn't comply. Question or not? Well, we'll come we'll open up the public hearing in just a minute. Anything else? See, I could have just said come on up. So, we will open the public hearing then if we have nothing here yet. And then um if you'd like to make a comment, please step up to the mic. I'm just curious. Give it hang on there. Get to the mic. And yes, thanks John.

Hi, I'm Craig Portner. I'm at 1023 North Valley, the property owner. Um I started talking with Mr. Nisley back in January about this already. And I was under that there was no opportunity to even build a residence on this property. So that's why I'm kind of flustered by these questions because I was understanding that you could not hang on a second. We'll have you come up just as soon as we address these questions here.

So yeah, that's that was my question. I do not plan on putting any I was I was under the understanding that I'm restricted to the thousand square feet. So, that's that's what I am looking at doing is getting as close to the,000 foot as I can possibly get on the lot. Um, the 28x32 plan has somewhat changed because of the 16 ft uh peak height. I'm looking at a narrower, possibly a little wider building. Um, more like a 24 by 36 or something like that. Um, I don't know if that requires addendum to the to the permit, but I'm staying underneath that thousand square ft. So, um, and meeting all the conditions, um, hooking up to the water and sewer. Um, my wife and I were talking about it and, you know, we kind of felt that since we have the opportunity, um, we feel that if we decide to move out of town, my property, the house property might not get sold to the same person that that wants to buy the lot. So, we feel it probably be advantageous to us to hook up to the water and sewer also and put a bathroom a small bathroom and something in the in the garage.

Could I could I follow up then? So, we're talking sort of design and construction materials and things. Do you do you know what you plan for construction method? Is it going to be framed? It has to be a pole because of the the 16T height. I'm going to tin I'm going to tin the roof. It's going to be a a metal building. Um, but I'm going to I'm going to clean it up so that I can finish off the inside and uh you know, I don't want it looking like a like a dump. You know, I want to make it look nice for the area, too. Of course. Okay, got it. Thank you. That's it. Thank you.

All right, come on up. The only only question we have about his building is property line we want. First of all, why don't you give us your name and address and then Mike is all yours. We own the property right next to it, the two lots that are zoned the same. Those are the vac. We purchased those. We was told at the time you cannot build a house and they were already we was good to go about building a garage and as soon as we started talking about it, we couldn't. They said now we got to apply for all kinds of permits to do it just like he's doing.

Yeah. I mean that uh I'm only I'm worried about as long as we stay far enough away from the property line. I had it all surveyed by monk and somebody has moved my sticks now, my survey sticks at the property. So that's the only thing I'm worried about here is just then I'll take care of our issue. But okay. No, we he before the building is constructed, permits required. Our building official or folks in his office go out and make sure that it ends up where it's supposed to be before they start pouring. I imagine. Yes. I've seen the city flags out there. Uh they might have marked utilities. Is that what those were? Those were pretty close to property lines as well. And or the the gray flags.

Yeah, we just the gray flags. Yeah, we marked the property line and we marked 30 foot the 30 foot setback. Okay. So, John, how far will he have will will the current applicant have to build his accessory structure from that southern lot line, the one that's shared with the gentleman at the mic? How far? Five feet. Five feet. Yeah. Okay. And like I said, I paid to have it surveyed. I don't want to pay it again because somebody moved the sticks. I mean, the sticks are there. One's broke off, throw down. The other one, somebody throw it down the hill. So, okay. Well, likely they drove monuments anyway that they're still there. There should be and they'll find them. Okay. Could still be there.

I don't I don't I don't I don't think it was I don't think it was used. I had no idea. I would imagine. That was the only thing I had to say. You'll be able to find the spots again. There's iron monuments driven into the ground and Yeah, cuz he just surveyed it last year. So, yeah. All right. Thank you. Any other comments from the public?

Okay, we'll close the hearing then bring it back here. Commissioners, do we have anything else? Other questions? The uh the proposed um pole construction in sheet metal, that's all by code. Correct. Okay. Do we want to go through the findings of fact or have we read them and are we okay with them? Yes. Fine with them. We can wave them. I'm fine with them. Yep. I'm fine. All right. We'll wave them. Um and we're okay with them. Yes.

Um are we ready for motion? Are there any other comments? The folks who sent the letter are not okay. What John? What was the made the the written comment? What was the main concern there? The the main concerns were the size of the building, the height, and the setbacks. All right. But they're all by code. Correct.

Okay. I'll make a motion to recommend approval with conditions uh that the application of Craig T. E Portner for a conditional use permit to allow the construction of a 28x 32 detached accessory structure that is one non conforming in size. two on a property zoned RT2 traditional neighborhood single and two family resident district on the legally described as part of lot 11 block 10 north of center street. This property has a street address of 1016 North Valley Street.

Is that with the conditions? Yep. Joe, you going to add the fifth one that John mentioned as well? Yep. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Anybody opposed? I don't know why we always say I. So I'm saying yes just because why not? So that that motion is passed. Uh when does when does that go on to the city council? Let's go to the city council. Next Tuesday. Next Tuesday at 4:30.

All right. Um, the next item on the agenda is You're out of here. Is what? Let me find the agenda. Hang on with me. Old business. Are we good? We started this discussion last month. Um, you remember it's it's some of our our big boxes in town and and how do we give them another life? and um it was tabled and staff went back and did some more work to bring some more information back to us. And John, you've got the floor, please. Sure.

All right. So, yeah, for Kate, as a little recap, um in February, the planning commission um directed staff to bring back some potential uses that could be considered for specifically a large commercial space uh that is not currently allowed in that zoning district. Um, so staff reviewed the comprehensive use table in our um, zoning ordinance and selected uses that we um, we allow in the B2 commercial zoning district um, and not in the B3 or it's light industrial in nature. Um, and then we provided those definitions um, in your packets. But I want to I want to note that at this time um also in your packets you can see that last sheet it has a highlighted line going down the um three or four pages and um that highlighted area is the the B3 zoning district and then those uses that are allowed there. Um at this time we have I counted 39 permitted uses and 10 conditional uses um that would be allowed at this type um or type of property or in the B3 zoning district. Um as we discussed last time uh uh there are many uses that could be uh considered or sorry could be um um done in this property or on a property uh like this. But generally speaking or recently uh we haven't been seeing much interest in those types of specific commercial uses and most of the uses that have been brought forward um have been light industrial in nature or not permitted on the site. Um so when looking at large uh commercial spaces over 50,000 ft uh in the in the community we found only six buildings

that meet this criteria. So remember, commercial spaces, not industrial spaces. Um, so these are located in our B districts. Um, so those six are out out here at Menard's, Walmart, Runnings, uh, right west of Quick Trip is the uh the old Runnings building. Um, and then we have the old vacant mall back here. um right behind us and then we have the large target property on the south end of town. Now

the the mall property I just note that there are three different parcels that make up that particular complex and so that's why you see three of them listed there.

Yeah. So, of of that six uh total, um four of these would be in the B3 zoning district. And that's kind of what we're we're focused on right now. And those four would be the um Walmart and Menard's property as well as the Runnings property and then on the south end the Target property. So, of those four that would meet that criteria of 50,000 square feet or larger and located in the B3 zoning district, we only have one property that is actually uh vacant or doesn't is not fully utilized, I should say. Um, so what we did was we put together uh definitions for you all to take a look at and uh there were 13 different uses that staff believe uh could be considered as a uh potential use more than likely with a a conditional use permit um or some type of uh restricted permit um for a 50,000 square feet building in the B3 zoning district. Um, one was agriculture, particularly indoor agriculture, um, bus garage, uh, industrial services, landscaping and nursery business, um, machine and truck repair and sales, uh, minor manufacturing, uh, repair establishment, research, uh, development and testing lab, self- storage facility, transportation services, uh, warehouse and distribution, And I would note that is already um allowed as a conditional use permit in the B3 and then wholesale sales. Um what we were trying to do is provide um some of these types of uses that would have minimal or no external impact on surrounding properties if possible.

Um some have a little bit more of that or could have a little bit more of that than others. Um, so with that, I was going to more or less open it up to discussion to see if you had time to read any of these definitions or had any feedback for staff uh to move forward or to to hold back. Commissioners, you looked like you had a lot to say.

You're deep in thought on it. Oops. Um, I think some some of some of the listed potential uses might be a better fit than others. I don't know if we if you feel the same way as I do, but for example, some of the landscaping things, lots of that is outdoor.

I don't I don't think we necessarily want that. Think of well, maybe Menards is far enough off the road. You know, in certain circumstances, maybe that would work. They already have yards that, you know, are kind of like landscaping stuff, right? But right there on Broadway where Target is, it might not be as acceptable. Why? Why wouldn't you think so?

Because it looks industrial and it's on Broadway and it's right on Broadway. It's not like um you could do you could do you know 8 foot 10ft fences and but then you get this walled appearance at the southern entrance to the city kind of a thing and maybe that's not what we're looking for. What are you thinking about when you're thinking about landscaping? I think about landscaping. I think trees and plants and what are you thinking? You thinking dirt piles? I'm thinking everything from from aggregate piles to ground to you know an industrial look. you know, if it's if it's like some of the landscaping places we have now where you basically have trees or plants, that might be different. But

yeah, but if you're allowing um outside storage of things, you're kind of opening the door to aggregate and front end loaders and an industrial look. Maybe that's okay. Well,

but that's what we could get. Yeah, I would note and John indicated that we would we're recommending that these items be approved by conditional use permit. So, if there are um features that go with a particular use that people feel doesn't fit that particular location, there always is that option to establish that as a condition. For example, agriculture. I'm not certain that all agricultural uses would maybe be appropriate at that location. While what you would do is, you know, through a conditional use permit process, you um would establish conditions that would mitigate anything that was adverse about the use,

right? And we s we have some of that now. You look at runningings and you know they have clearly there's an eggy yard there. It's you know you you can get everything from gates and fencing to I mean it's that's where you want to go if you need some egg supplies. Um so it might not be totally inappropriate. It's just something we need to be mindful of. Yeah. I think it's a logical concern. I mean, when you bring up the piles that the dirt piles and that that's a logical concern. If it's going to be trees and plants, I think that'd look great. So, I think using a I think what Dave said is a is a logical path forward.

Well, and you got to look at it's a paved parking lot that they have. You know, somebody that's going to be doing aggregate and that kind of stuff isn't going to be running their trucks on on the pavement. So, they're not even going to apply for it. You know what I mean? Pro probably not because that's just that's more wear and tear on their vehicles than it than they want to deal with. Plus to have to get all these conditional use permits and stuff to break their equipment. No, you're not going to get that. Some of the folks who have talked with you about potential uses in there, would they be covered by what we're looking at here or is it

uh Yeah, I think so. I think in particular the one that I would say that we've had the most probably interest in is the manufacturing minor or minor manufacturing. And what does that mean exactly? Assembly, not, you know, they're not right. They're not actually they're not um produc producing it. Um yeah, assembly would be a really great uh way to define that. um

that seems logical and if you know if you're doing like stuff that's not necessarily um you know doing more 3D printing and and more gadget kind of assembly and uh production or maybe even like uh medical um industrial creating medical stuff you know. Yeah. And and largely that would be uh there wouldn't there shouldn't be any external uh any any external um implications from that. It shouldn't have any smell. It shouldn't have any noise outside of the building.

And you're not storing finished product out in the yard. You're not Okay.

Yeah. Matter of fact, if you look at the definition for um manufacturing minor, it um it says such use will not generate objectionable or offensive influences including but not limited to orders, material byproduct discharges, dust, glare, ash, smoke, vibration, and noise beyond the lot on which the useed. So, And again, if you do it by conditional use permit, you can, you know, limit or eliminate certain items. How do we feel about things like um truck repair? We have we have diesel repair shops in town and um it's very difficult for those not to spill out into the parking lot. You're waiting on parts. You don't want them in inside. They're they're half assembled and sitting in the yard. We already kind of have that just a few blocks up. And I don't know that I personally don't think that that belongs there. In my mind, that'd be better than manufacturing minor. It would bring more life to that end of of town. It would be disappointing to me to see that building being used for manufacturing, but I think it's more disappointing to see the building being left empty. And on the bright side, it would provide jobs. So, but to have a building right on Broadway, it'd be preferable to me to see life there. And like you said, you know, having operated on that in a town for so long right in that area, the couple blocks down where where there is a building like that, um I don't see any negative to it.

Okay. I do see your point, but

well, if you if you're doing like good size manufacturing, the parking lot would be used for the people that are doing the manufacturing. So you'd see um people coming and going. There would be signs of life from that perspective. People would shop on that side because it's close to work as they come and go from from work. So I think I mean anything that you get in there to produce movement and and people coming to work there or coming to do stuff is going to bring more vitality to that end of town. Anyways, I I think it's that's just going to happen. you know, you're going to stop and grab

something at H High because you're right across the block.

So, I just want to just to touch on a few things because we're we're focused on this one particular property, but um at the last planning commission meeting, you you all had discussed coming up with some sort of criteria as to limiting these types of additional uses to specific size buildings or performance standards, that type of thing. So, when we're talking um when we're talking about this these types of uses and if they would be incorporated somehow into the zone zoning ordinance through a cup process or what have you, it would if we're if we're going to limit it to a building that's in the B3 and over 50,000 square feet, that would also apply to these other three buildings on the north end of town. So, I just want you all to be just aware of that. Is it also possible to specify that these are building reuses? So, we're not having somebody come in here and maybe it's not the end of the world, but they're putting up a 7,5,000 square foot manufacturing facility in what we would think is commercial property. I mean, would we allow a new build or would we have them go someplace more appropriate like an I1?

That's a good point. I think we'd want to fill the fill an existing space space otherwise be located in the district where it's permitted. It's right. Can we even do that? I mean, I'd like to say I guess we'd have to check with the city attorney check on that.

I suspect you might say we can't, but if we could I mean, you're not What we're trying to do is address a big box gone gone dark. Um, not necessarily. We're trying to fix a problem. We're not trying to create new space. We have industrial property we would like to sell. Um, so I think if you're starting from scratch, you should be someplace where it's permitted and not simply conditionally permitted. Okay. Completely agree. We're trying to fix a problem here, right? Create some new ones. Mhm.

You need more from us. You should we talk more about some of the other specific uses? I mean, we talked about just two really. We talked about the garage mechanic and um minor industrial, right? I think the you know the landscape you you all had some discussion on the landscaping nursery business and I think you know you're you're absolutely right that can have two different feels to it. it it can feel um much more industrial or it can or it can be like I'll use drummers for example in Mano doesn't really feel industrial at all. It feels really retail to be honest, right?

Um so that's why I a conditional use permit might be a really great route. Um we don't want it to look like simstone. I want it to look like there's plants out there and and stock that I can bring home in my vehicle or truck, but not have to hire a a dump truck to bring the aggregate over. I think there are better places for storing that aggregate than they're on Broadway. Yeah. Mhm. The conditional use permit really eases my mind significantly.

Is that is that sit okay with you, Joe? I mean, yeah. I mean I I think that like uh I I don't know. It's hard to differentiate between, you know, we're trying to solve this problem and we're trying to problem this should look at it as an opportunity. um trying to, you know, look at how to use that space more appropriately without creating a uh a rule that we're going to corner ourselves in later. I mean, I think using a conditional use permit would be appropriate because it's kind of a unique parcel, right? Well, the the size of the building is certainly unique in the commercial districts that we have.

Yeah. Because it's so it's not common. I should say that. And it could very well be that the size of the building isn't going to be appropriate for some of these things, right? Yeah. Yeah. It would take a very large for one for one industry or one owner to come in and take that whole thing. it. I mean, it was built by Target for the purpose of Target. So, you're going to you're looking at someone with this comparable kind of size and capacity that wants to use it as a single entity, right? If it's broken down, it, you know, wouldn't be as bad. But,

well, but I'm looking at some of these categories. warehouse and distribution facility and wholesale sales seem like they would be industries that would maybe need that much space, you know. Well, so sorry, just warehouse um warehouse warehouse and distribution facility, wholesale and wholesale sales. Yeah. Uh, and wholesale sales, they actually do allow them in the B3 already by conditional use. By conditional use permit. Um, except wholesale sales is uh permitted. Sorry, that was a little confusing with the definition. I tried to put that at the end, but

I should have separated that out entirely. So, so to follow up on Joe's concerns to to strike this balance, is it a is it a question of coming up with performance standards rather than just saying a conditional use permit? You need a conditional use permit, but you should meet some some standards. Um, and you know, we don't want to be so specific that nothing can go in there. That's already the problem. But, you know, how do you quantify this? Yeah. I mean, how do you quantify the difference between an industrial semstone yard and landscaping? Somehow that's the performance standard thing perhaps. Yeah, great great question. Um, so just just to step back, just take one step back. Um, the wholesale warehousing and um wholesale sales. I I wanted these on here to show examples of industrial sorts of uses that we already allow in the B3.

In this particular building, he was granted a cup for warehousing and distribution already. So, just so we know that off off the get-go.

Um, regarding performance standards, um, Dave and I haven't taken a deep dive into that yet. Um, and we certainly can if that's what the commission would like us to do. One thing the city has done in the past where we've had not exactly the same type of issue but something similar um is the performance standard would just be another column on on the table um in that zoning district. So in the B3 right now we just have you know commercial uh B3 um and here's all the uses and here's their standards. There could be another separate column that says buildings over 50,000 square feet and then those are the standards underneath that.

That's that's at least a partial option. Yeah. I would note that we already have performance standards in the code. Um and we don't cover maybe everything, but I would say we cover 80% of what would, you know, be a a typical performance standard. So David, when when Walmart and Menards were reviewed, how did the city look at the yards, was that just a performance standard issue or No, we never they just that wasn't considered um in that context.

All right. Well, there's they're all fenced in. So, like the the garden area, it's all high fence, right? You can't really see in there. And that's kind of where I'm going. Is that the kind of performance standard you need to look at on these these retro jobs? I mean, running is a different from that perspective, it is different because they have stuff sitting out

in the yard or in the parking lot that's on display. And then their garden in the spring is temporary huge space of the you know so they're different from that perspective but they're also on the edge of town where you know it's not a lot of people driving by. It's not it's not I don't see it as an eyesore and they I don't know they got plenty of parking lot to use it for. It's never busy or never packed. You can't find a parking spot that's never a problem. I like that. Yeah. No, I walk right up. No problem. I like seeing the landscaping there, too. I mean, that brings me in sometimes when I see it, right?

I need that the advertising and all those things sitting out. So, what we could do is um if the planning commission's recommending it, I mean, we would we would prepare a a draft or a a draft maybe ordinance just for you or a zoning amendment for you all to review. Um and then would we want to go would would we want to go that route? Um based on what we're hearing here tonight. Um

I'm I'm thinking that um you know, we've heard a variety of different things. maybe give us a chance to take a look at these items and maybe, you know, refine them a little bit more where we've heard comments and um look at maybe other options and in the form of performance standards and see what we could apply there. Is there is there anybody currently asking like what can we put in there? You know, is it how is how is this work going to benefit the owner or the city in attracting a business to come in and use it? See what I'm saying?

Yeah. So they um they we hear something different frequently what's being proposed there because I think there it's it's a large building commercial building that's available and it's you know there's not a ton of those out there so there's always interest in it and um um the current one that is interested is allowed there um but a few weeks ago that one wasn't. So that those that type of thing changes pretty pretty frequently, but generally speaking, uh most of them have not been permitted there.

Can I wander back to David's comment? I think I think it is wise not to take a shot in an ordinance yet because you could take 16 shots in an ordinance. I think we need to to get a little closer to something before we start composing them. and and there isn't a huge well maybe there is maybe tomorrow somebody wants to come in and put in you know a light manufacturing thing going on but I think we I think it's okay to take the time to to think it through sounds good I mean if if if the property owner isn't bringing forward any concrete proposals I mean take the time to think about it if there's no timelines or anything right that I Yeah, that would make sense. Um, I don't know that there's anything

there, as John indicated, um, yeah, there's been a series of of potential uses um, identified for the building, but um, how serious they are, it's difficult for us to know. Mhm. Mhm. And I I prefer writing an ordinance that way rather than having somebody who's got a contract out already and then we're trying to put together something that fits a specific proposal. That always feels a little wrong to me. So, as long as there's nothing specific, I prefer we sort of take our time and try to get it right.

Sounds like a plan. Anyone else on that Joe? Any more comments on it? No. Okay. Well, let's move on then to um reports. Um David, do you want to start first on city council?

Yeah. at the uh council's um March u 3rd meeting um they conducted a public hearing on a tax abatement program between the city uh garden terrace new homem 2 and oakills living center. So there's three parties to this agreement and it's for the apartment building that is currently under construction. you've driven down Garden Street. Um there's a lot of activity taking place there right now. Um there was a second public hearing on the tax abatement program for SLD properties is the one that we um considered today. And the reason for a tax abatement program there was because of the previous buildings that were located on that site when they were removed. A lot of the debris either went into the basement or the basement stayed there. The basement walls stayed there. And so in order to construct the new building, all of that has to come out. And this is a cost that apparently the soil borings did not um identify. And upon further examination um there's a a pretty steep price there. And so they requested tax abatement assistance to help them with that particular problem. Um, also at that meeting,

uh, they approved the issuance of a conditional use permit to Royal Oaks Recycling at 810 North Front Street and we have not heard from them since uh, we sent out the um, approval letter. uh also approved the uh two variances that were requested um for that particular use of that building. Those had to do with the um um lot size and the um distance from a residential area. So, um, but like I said, we but we haven't heard from them since, uh, the approval. Um, at the March 17th meeting, um, there were no planning commission items. Uh, there were a couple other items that you might be interested in. Um, first off is that um, the safety commission um, uh, in a reaction to a study that was done. They're looking at establishing new speed limits around the schools. And basically, um, what I saw is, you know, 30 is the prevailing speed limit at present time. They're looking at bringing it down to 25 or to 20.

Mhm. what uh what I saw what the schedule is for implementing this um I'm not uh certain but um that's one thing and then um the other item is the acquisition of the uh field maintenance shop that the National Guard had as well as the armory. They advised the city that um both of those uh buildings would be available for $1 to the city. And so the uh but they wanted a fairly immediate response from the city on whether to accept that offer or not. And the city council elected to um accept both buildings for a dollar. And so I suppose now we go through a process of um you know acquisition you know deeds and that type of thing. Um I will note that um did you look at both buildings? Okay. So, you know, our our building staff went through um both of the properties to look for potential problems and found some items. Uh but um um I guess uh they were it was acceptable to the city council to proceed with the action. Uh,

David, do we have does the city council have a notion yet what they might be used for the buildings or Well, the field maintenance shop, which is the one down on the south end of town. Um, that's going to be used city. There's always a desire for space like that that's enclosed and the building's in pretty good shape. So, okay,

that'll stay with the city. um the armory, the city would like to move that property. Um and so I would expect that um they will um send out a request uh for proposals and see what kind of response uh they get back.

Okay. Um, one other item that I want to note u was that uh they had a work session and the work session was on the uh Herman monument and at that time they distributed a um cost estimate from the architect and um we'll start passing the hat now. Um but um it was $12 million. Just under, right? Are we hoping for grant monies?

I Yeah. Uh, I think the the hope is that um that state of Minnesota might have uh means of um you knowing some substantial dollars. Okay.

And it was um it will take two years to um complete the project. And apparently what they I should actually let Ela talk about this since he's more involved in than I have been. But basically they're going to take the whole structure apart, put the items, you know, on the ground, look at them, assess them, determine if they can be reused or not. And those that are determined to be that they can reuse will go back on a future monument. Those that can't they'll have to replace with something similar. Um but that's uh and all of this has to be um you know documented and um u recorded and uh actually they're also requiring the city to do an archaeological study. Oh yeah.

Of of the site or of of of the site? Mhm. At least the area that would be disturbed through the deconstruction and reconstruction. Okay. So, is the statue itself in sound condition? It's just the the base as it were that needs to be reconstructed. Yeah, I would say that's correct. The statue's already been down and was repaired. All right. 2004. Yeah. Okay. It's likely there's a few more bullet holes in it, though.

Just like yesterday. 22 years. Mhm. There's a backstory here I'll ask later. All right, Elwood. Nothing. All right. Well, I think then that we are are done. If there's nothing else on the agenda, any other matters not on nothing. All right. Then it is 5:58 and we are adjourned.