Township Council - Regular Meeting

Did you guys eat? Thank you. Good morning. I'd like to call the March 14th special meeting budget meeting to order to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. A moment of silence to remember the service and sacrifices of the armed service members who protect our nation and the first responders who protect our neighborhoods.

Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg, here. Council member Voytovich here. Council member Freellander here. Council member Royek here. Council member Freed here. Council member Quinn here. Council member Kelly here. Council Vice President Sacket here. Council President Morrison here. Notice of this meeting was published in the daily record in the official newspapers for the township of Rockaway. Notice was posted on the official bulletin boards of Rockaway Township Township website and notice was filed in the office of the township clerk. Before we begin, are you prepared? Yes. Thank you.

I'm going to turn the meeting over to our mayor.

So, um I think in the front of the binder, right, there's always a letter or a a message from uh myself and and Miss Palm Mary um about the importance of the budget. So, just want to make sure members of the public, and I know the council knows most of this, but members of the public understand the process that happens. So, in the fall, like this isn't a uh quick thing. Um the budget development, uh all the department heads get a a binder, a spreadsheet from uh Miss Palary to start the budget process. Um and they have time to work with their employees and all that to go through and develop a a budget um with guidelines that are given to them. Those are then returned. Um, you know, Miss Palmary asks questions, they meet, they go through them, and then there's public meetings that occur um around Thanksgiving. Um, they're open, when I say public, there's meetings that are noticed, they're open to the public where basically the department heads meet with Miss Paul Mary and they go through the budget. They can, she asks specific questions, they answer them. Um, and then at that point, you know, we start reviewing the budget together. Um it was given to the council about three weeks ago I think that allows them time to review the budget. We got dozens of questions from the uh council. So this is a a process that takes months uh to complete and a lot of thought goes into it. So I just want to make that clear. I also wanted to just say right since I've been mayor um there's been a lot of consistency um in the leadership team. So, everybody behind me, um, Ryan Shatzel was recently out of it, but pretty much everybody behind me, Miss Pomeary, um, Mr. Sarinelli, um, council members Sacket, Morrison, Sberg, um, Freedellander, Quinn have, and and, uh, Voytovich have been on the council since I've been mayor. Um, and I think that's important when you're developing a budget. Uh, that consistency helps. um

we've all worked together um cooperatively over these past few years to create approved budgets that deliver increased um services to our residents and and really are fiscally responsible um and and there's a lot to that. So we've treated the township budget um as really a long-term strategic plan, right? So when you look at developing a budget, it shouldn't be a one-year plan, right? This our budget for the year. We really along with the assistance of Miss Palm Mary and and Mr. Sarinelli, we really look at the budget a strategic plan um you know at least over five years and that's what we've done um you know if when you start looking at a budget and treating as a one-year plan and cutting uh major amounts for one year it's it's detrimental um to any organization. So we try to treat this as a business and that's what we've done. So I just wanted to give some background so that the council understands right. So we analyze municipalities with over 20,000 residents in Morris County. We fit in that category. When you look at those townships since all these people have been in place, we've had the lowest increase in our general budget in that time frame for the past 5 years. We've had the lowest percentage increase of our general budget. That says a lot. Um and a lot of that has to do with the process we followed. So all these M tally um you know there's there's roughly nine of them. Um the other thing I would point out is that our increase in our general budget is is below the rate of inflation in that same time. So we are able to do more with less. Um we're the only municipality that has consistently reduced their municipal tax rate during that period which obviously helps you know the burden of taxes on our residents from a municipal perspective. Um, and unlike some of the other municipalities, we haven't seen significant residential growth that put the burden on the school system. You know, we've been able to keep that

pretty flat. We haven't approved new major developments like you'll see in some of the surrounding communities that are going up. So, that's important, too. Um, public safety, that's been a forefront. I know all the council members up there that have been part of the past few budgets, it's one of the major things um that we focused on. um we have the second highest percentage of public safety employees compared to all those municipalities, right? So, it's a focus we have. Um and that means on the flip side, we have the third lowest percentage of non-public safety employees. So, we have people in the office, people at DPW, people in wreck that are doing more with less. Okay? They're they're accomplishing things. And so when you look at that and that type of work environment, you know, we're looking to make sure we're rewarding the right people um and have great synergies within the office, which we have now. Um DPW, the water department, parks and wreck, there's a lot of great synergies going on, which means you have happy workers, you have happy residents. Um they're doing a lot of great work out there and this budget um reflects how we want to treat those uh situations. Um, I want to talk about some of the things we've accomplished over these past few years um while keeping again a lowest percentage increase of budgets for for town municipalities in Morris County with over 20,000 um residents. So, I think it says a lot. So, we've increased the number of patrol officers and sergeants. We've purchased over 10 new police vehicles. We've increased funding to our fire our fire first responders. We purchased two new fire trucks, one of them being a ladder truck. We've equipped our water department with two new water vehicles, one of which has been used to support surrounding communities. Um, we've made improvements and repairs to our aging water system, replaced the gas tank in the senior center, and made dramatic improvements to the senior center, purchased a new dialeride vehicle, and expanded the program. Um, through the mayor's wellness campaign, I can't speak enough

about that. Um, we've offered incredible services to our residents to improve physical, mental, and financial well-being. Um, and I think coming out of COVID, that was important and and Peter and and under under Peter Britney have really done a great job driving that program. Um, we've added numerous community centric events. The senior's prom, first night uh a national day of prayer, um national night out with the PD, uh the Memorial Day parade. That's just a few. We we've added so many events that it's just great for our public because I know when I first came into office, people complained there was nothing to do in Rockaway. Um we've honored our veterans with our and our first responders through the hometown heroes program that uh Councilman Vtobich was uh instrumental in driving funding with our partnership through Tilcon. Um we've entered into a new shared services agreement with Rockway Burrow. We've uh increased the revenue we're getting in our shared services agreement with Mine Hill. Um there's been numerous improvements to our recreations field under Mr. Dyer. So there's there's many services that we've improved or added to. Um and again while keeping a budget that's fiscally responsible and from a percentage standpoint has increased less than any other u municipality our size from a population standpoint. And and that takes into account too these other municipalities don't have the geography do the roads that Mr. and his crews have to maintain the water system. So, I just want to say it's a collaborative effort between all of us um to make this happen and provide the best services for our residents and I think we've done that consistently and I want to thank the council for their partnership in making that happen. So, that's all I had to say. Council President, thank you.

Thank you. Could I just follow up with the mayor? I just want to say thank you. That's that's all you could say. Thank you. And uh Mr. Mr. Mayor, I appreciate everything that you're saying and uh all the efforts that everybody has put into uh assembling this budget from the end of the the year with the some of the old council members that are no longer here and then uh answering and working with some of the new members as well as the council in total. And I just want to make sure that this council understands that we have um a definite uh fiscal diligence that we need to provide for the res. I understand what you're saying, but I I'm not I understand what you're saying, but it was just you said you were going to thank I was and I just want to make sure the council doesn't need to be lectured, so I'm going to take that. I'm not I'm actually speaking to the public on this.

I Mr. Kelly, but it's not your position right now to speak to the public. I appreciate I'm withdrawing your time. I object. Is there a second to the motion that Mr. Kelly makes objecting to my wanting to move the meeting along? No. To be allowed to to speak to the public of an introduction of what we need.

Mr. colleague is not your position to introduce to the public. I am that's your you are not recognized. Um okay at this point we are going to do the open to the public portion. Um I no sign up. It's fine. We can go through the public. Um I'll remind the public that it's the same rules as we do during a council meeting. There is uh three minutes. Um, if you do wish to speak to the public, please step up to the microphone. Name and address for the record. Uh, three minutes. Please be aware that because we have not gone through the budget specifically, we can't answer specific budgetary questions. Uh, it's really just to make comments. Is there anybody from the public that wishes to speak? Okay. Um, Mr. Sinelli. So, good morning everybody. Ray Serninelli, I'm the township auditor. Um, every year I come to this meeting and I do a recap of the prior year, right? So, today you're going to be making a lot of decisions on the upcoming year. It's kind of where are we based on last year so we can make our decisions moving forward. Um, so I'll jump right into it. Um, at your general operating fund, which is where you know the the main operations take place and and your taxes come in, um, had a very good year. So uh every year I talk about the fund balance. The fund balance is very similar to the retained earnings in a business. It's a it's a economic indicator of how the township is doing. Right? If you look want to invest in a business, you want to know how the retained earnings look, what money they have after they pay off all their liabilities. That's the same thing in a municipality. We look at your fund balance. So your fund balance at the beginning of the year was 8,261. You used through the budget as you always do 4,700,000

and generated 5,168. So you ended the year at 8,729. That's growth of $468,000. So good growth year, right? Why did that happen? And there's several reasons. Uh the first being that you started with a good budget plan. I'll be honest, the mayor stole a lot of my thunder of what I'm going to talk about today, but you started with a good long-term plan for 2025. Um, the revenues, the revenues came in much higher than expected in a lot of areas, particularly in interest. Um, that's going to be a little bit redundant from last year, right? Interest rates have been the highest they've been in the last uh 20 years. and your cash position has been very strong because of the lot of grant funding that you've been getting both from the federal and state government. So, high cash position, high interest rates. You collected uh $1.8 million of interest. That's actually down slightly from last year, but last year was the highest interest that Rockaway Township has ever collected in the history of Rockaway Township. So, still a very good strong revenue that's continuing to help build your fund balance. Uh the other main reason is controlled costs. The unspent funds that go into the budget that you don't spend come back into the fund balance after a two-year cycle. It's a little bit of a confusing process. That's why you have somebody like me, but um it's a very good thing when you build a budget and then your administration, the people behind me, they don't just spend because the money is there. They all try to control the cost that you've set forth for them. Um so that's a very good thing as well. So overall very good strong growth year, right? The fund balance is is up 468,000. It's about 19% of your operating budget. Um that's a very important factor that we'll talk about it. It it and it's actually a pretty sweet spot to be in

for where we are in the economic cycle. Um, looking forward, I would say that that number is probably going to stabilize. Growth of something like half a million dollars is probably not going to happen in 2026. Um, you know, there's a lot of things changing. Interest rates are coming down. Your cash position is coming down as well because that grant funding has now been spent. Something like the ARP funds, which were historic monies that came in here, have now been spent. So, your cash position is coming down. that's similar to all municipalities across the state of New Jersey. As those grant funds are being spent down, cash positions are being reduced. So, so nothing to worry about, but just not going to be a big revenue driver like they have been. Um, and also inflationary pressures, which I'll talk a little bit about when we get to the budget. But over the last seven years, inflation has been high. There's nothing different for this year particularly in the area of health benefits which we'll talk about is really um you know it's it's a hard cost to absorb at this point because uh the inflationary pressure is so high on those things. Um so that's your general operating fund. Is there any questions on that? I I do have wanted to touch base on your other funds but I always like to check in after the general operations because there's a lot lot going on there. I do.

Mr. Sarinelli, could you tell us the uh the budget amount that's presented to us today for 2026? So, I can get to that. I want to if I could just finish on last year before we get to next year. What was last year's amount? Last year's total budget amount. Correct. Sure. Uh somewhere right around 45 million. I can give you the exact number. The total budget last year was 45,242.

And could you repeat the amount for the reserves that we have again? So the fund balance started the year 8,261 ended the year 8,729 and with the fund balance and some of the concerns that were raised by the state of New Jersey with the controllers's office. There was a recommendation to take money out of the fund balance and put it back into the general to offset costs that were taken out wrongfully back in the um controllers report. Are you aware of any of that? So the controllers report didn't wasn't specifically talking about this fund balance number.

Where would the reserves come from that the fund the controllers's office is asking to refund back to the taxpayers? So, the the um reserves that they were talking about were were uh sick and vacation reserve and the we're not talking about leave payments. We're talking about actual reserve money. The reserve. Yeah. Uhu. Yeah. And the Yes. the the sewer assessment fund balance. And just to be clear, the controllers's office has been satisfied with all remedies concerned to those. Uh can we talk about I don't think so. Okay. I don't think you can talk about that yet.

All right. In the in the controllers's information, I I know I requested it from administration. I know that Mr. Howard did receive it, not the other council members. Was there a reason why we didn't get that information that could assist us with this budget today? We were told that it's confidential at this point. We can't share it with anyone at this point. Who told you that? The state. So also the the there's a little bit of confusion because it's called an audit, but it's an operational audit, not a financial statement audit. So some of their recommendations um relate financially, but most of their recommendations are on an on an operational level.

No, some overspending and everything else for for benefits and some a lot of the cost concerns and ordinances that were for bond money and everything. I understand that, but there's still dollar amounts and recommendations from the original audit report that did speak about refunding money from reserves back into the general for the taxpayers to receive that benefit back. Right. So, I can tell you that that that this budget does that. You there is money taken out of the reserves and put back into the general fund. Where does it show that or will where would it show that

on the on the revenue side of the budget? Okay, please wrap up your thoughts, Mr. Kelly. Um, that's it for now, Mr. S. Thank you. Sure. Any other questions on the general operating fund? So, the sewer district operates, it's very unique to Rockaway Township and it operates within the current fund. um has a very stable fund balance of $775,000. That's up slightly from last year. Um this past year, the the sewer district did make a major capital purchase for the first time in a long time um which is a jetack truck, right? That that purchase will be paid for out of the sewer district um over the next several years because it is a large capital item. it's allowed to um be paid for over time similar to other large capital items um which is a great you know long-term plan for not only that fund but your your cap long-term capital plan in general. So the trust funds and uh other reserves operated normally um and are very strong um you know in particular you have a storm recovery trust which um you know getting two 15 to 20inch snowstorms in a year you know uh being able to utilize that fund takes the pressure off the budget in 2026. So again a good um long-term plan there um in capital very exciting year for me a nerdy accountant. you had a lot go on. Um so we sold permanent bonds and what's a little bit confusing about your debt structure is um as projects are ongoing that you issue what's called temporary debt and it's renewed every year. So those are called notes.

Once uh as part of your the the long-term plan that the township has, every 10 or so years, all of those notes are combined together and then spent out of and and put together into a long-term bond that's paid back over a period of time. So, uh as part of that process, Lisa and I and the uh financial team, your bond council, your municipal municipal adviser met with a rating agency. So, what is the rating agency's job? Their job is to analyze whether uh how well you will be able to pay back the debt. So they look at your uh financials. They look at the um demographics of the town, what what makes up your tax tax base and things like that. Very positive results from the rating agency. So the rating agency gave you a double one double A1 uh with a positive outlook. That's the highest you can get before AAA. and the rating uh agency member that we met with even said some of your indicators um we could consider you for AAA but I don't think it will happen and it didn't they you remained at double A1 and so I just I have the uh rating from Moody's and I just want to read one one section for you so this is directly from the rating agency so I'm your independent auditor I think you're doing a great job but this is even beyond me this is a national level Moody's rating agency the township maintain maintains an exceptionally strong financial position characterized by robust reserve and liquidity balances. It's pretty good from from from a rating agency. So, um you know, I think you know, we'll talk about it at the budget, but as the mayor said, the good long-term planning that you've been doing, um the rating agency recognized it. And why is that important? Right. So you issued $9 million worth of bonds at 3% interest. At a lesser rating, you

could have been at three and a half% to three and three/4% interest, which is only, you know, uh 50 basis points or 75 basis points. A $9 million over 12 years is about half a million dollars. So making good long-term decisions through the budget results in actual savings as it relates to your long-term capital plan. So I know every year I get up here and I encourage you to have a good long-term plan to make good decisions financially for the town. Some of those decisions are tough um but at the end of the day they they do result in good positive things for the township especially when it comes to your um your long-term debt plan. Any questions on capital?

I have a couple questions. Um, and just for clarification, what is the purpose of the reserve fund?

So, the reserve fund is part of the the long-term plan. So, like I said, um, you know, we had two 15-inch snowstorms, which we obviously haven't seen in a while, and those create additional costs to the township, right? There's a ton of overtime. there's a ton of wear and tear on your equipment, all those things. So, so a lot of times what happens when we have um situations like that, towns have to do what's called an emergency. There's not enough money in the budget and they have to do an emergency. Sometimes that emergency can be $200 or $300,000. What happens is that cost then has to be raised through the budget, but you have to increase taxes to meet that cost. if you have a long-term plan, you have money set aside already ready to pay for those um costs. So, it kind of spreads out costs over a longer period of time so that your budget isn't constantly going up and down for all these different unique circumstances and emergent circumstances that can happen to any municipal municipality, but in particular one of your size. You're the largest municipality. All right. So, just just just to clarify, I mean to dumb it down for us non- nerds like you said, it's it's basically like a savings account.

Okay. So, do you So, let's say hypothetically we gutted that right under the guise of lowering taxes. That would be Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. Okay. Listen, everybody lets you talk and I expect you to give the same courtesy. You don't have to put the subal message. Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. If we happen to gut that under the guise of lowering taxes, it would put the township in a perilous position. It would where it could cost us more money. It would be a sharp deviation from the long-term plan that you have. Yes, we would. It could be detrimental.

You know, nobody has a crystal ball, but it could be definitely be detrimental. And we would then in in turn have to raise taxes to make that up. Exactly. Okay. So, it's in particular, so I I focused on the storm recovery trust, but your tax appeal reserve Yeah. is incredibly important. Um through, you know, from 2000 to 2015, there was no real reserve set up. And there were years where the township had to raise in the subsequent budget over a million dollars just to pay off a tax appeal,

right? Um, so, so that reserve for you in particular, for this township and the demography of what makes up your tax base, um, you get hit with with very tough tax appeals. Um, so just in conclusion to dumb it down for me, it is a necessary No, it's a necessary part of the budget and it is strongly and we're in a good position as far as that's concerned. A a very good position to the point where Moody's is saying you you really can't do much better.

Okay, appreciate that. Go ahead, Mr. S. Thank you, Ray. Um, just just kind of a little bit following up on that with the emergency funds, etc., etc. Since we have a good reserve of it, um, I know during the snowstorm, various towns throughout the state didn't have these funds and actually declared for their towns a state of emergency. and um and they were it was approved by the state. What's is that because they don't have enough funds already in there? What's kind of like maybe talk about that briefly?

Sure. So, yes, you're you're exactly right. They they declare a state of emergency and they do not have the funding to um pay for the expense of what's occurring during the snowstorm. And there's a lot of legal that goes on in the budget, but you cannot spend money that's not budgeted for. And so if they have to spend that money, they have to declare an emergency and they're allowed to spend that money. But what basically in order to make it run through the budget, you have to increase your budget and raise additional taxes to pay for that emergency. So, if you don't have the reserve, you have to increase taxes to pay for those expenses. You can't you can't pay for expenses that haven't been raised through the budget. The only way to raise them in the budget once the budget is complete is to increase taxes.

Okay. If I may, Mr. Sber. Yes. In the case of a state of emergency, does the state provide any type of relief or does the um the shortfall fall directly on the taxpayers of that town? So, primarily it falls on the taxpayers in the in the past when we had some pretty catastrophic uh you know uh Sandy

Sandy Marine IDA FEMA will step in. The problem with that is it's it's twofold. You're on the hook for the cost upfront. So you would still have to spend out of that reserve. It's just you might get money back later. And what's very interesting about FEMA is when Sandy happened, obviously almost every town had an issue. They sent people out to help you apply for your grants. The people came in, went through and said, "Yep, this cost is eligible. This cost is eligible. This cost is eligible. We're going to send it for reimbursement." When the money came back, they sent 500,000 of of grant requests to the federal government. 200,000 came back. They said 300,000 wasn't eligible. And everybody was like, we had somebody come and tell us this was eligible. So, uh,

so yeah. So, you're on the hook up front. You might not get back exactly what you're going to get, uh, what you apply for. Okay. Mr. Freedellander, fast question. Uh now you say if with an emergency we don't have the the state doesn't have the uh the money the revenue so they have to increase taxes they don't have a way of moving money around from department no other ways reducing another department's expenses to take that money and move it to where they need it. They're not allowed to do that.

And so the way your budget is structured you you could do that. there's uh certain statutory limitations to what you can move between departments and on timing. There's differences between what you can move departments. Um and normally those numbers are kept minimal, right? You you built a budget based on that's what's going to be spent in that department. Now, obviously there's fluctuations in there. So, but usually what happens with a a snowstorm is it's it's not like you have to move 20,000 from one department to another. It's like a hundred thousand from one department to another, right? I mean, if you if you go through,

you know, 20 tons of salt and you have to buy that to replace it because of an emergent snowstorm, it's like 100 grand. So, it's it's not as simple. You can do it. It's just usually the way your budget is structured and usually due to timing, it's not possible or it's not nearly enough to cover what what happens in those circumstances. You just thought that the last resort is raising taxes and not, you know, try to manipulate things around to not do that, right? Okay. Thank you. That's I I have a question. Yeah. Uh so if we don't have enough reserves, I would assume that would definitely affect our bond rating, right? It would be

So that's exactly what they said in their statement is is you have good reserves. When they talk about reserves, it's talking about your fund balance, but they also look at the other reserves you have like the tax appeal reserve, the storm recovery reserve, um the the sick and vacation. They look at everything, not just the fund balance. We focus in on fund balance because it's important especially to the budget process and that's why I report on it. But they look at look at everything and and Ray explain the importance of our bond rating. Yeah, just

so the bond rating, you know, directly correlates to to the interest rate, which directly correlates to the expense that you put. So that's why, you know, I mentioned over the life of the bond, you may have saved, you know, half a million dollars. So a lower bond rating essentially means higher taxes. Yeah. Okay.

And this by bond rating that we currently have, the A1, that's been increased from what double A how long ago or before that? Um, it has been double A one, I think, for a a while. The DA1 positive outlook. Okay. Um, and on the on the rating call, the rating agency even said, "We might consider you for a trip AAA," which they they don't do that. Okay. Okay. Great. Great. It's a good thing we're on the first floor, but besides Steve, I think everybody's getting ready to jump out the window, Ray. No, no offense to you, but they I don't think uh you know, it's exciting stuff for them.

It's exciting for me. I know. I know you're the one with the big smile on your face right now. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Sinelli, um what would we need to achieve for AAA rating?

So, what do we what are we missing from this triple I mean double A1? So, so the the biggest thing is um your ratable base. So, the the the towns in New Jersey that have a AAA rating have usually a pretty robust um businesses. Um you know, I I work with Form Park. They have a AAA rating. They also have ADP headquartered there, right? They they're looking at what will your ability to pay back the debt. That's what they're assessing, right? So the higher your rating, the more likelihood that you're going to be able to pay back, the better interest rate u a buyer is going to give you. So if your tax base is pretty much recessionp proof like a Fortune 500 company, they like to see that. They want to see it be diverse. They want some residential, some commercial, some industrial, all that. So the makeup of Rockaway Township, which personally I like, you have a lot of state forest land. I enjoy hiking so I appreciate the fact that you have that that does not help with your bond rating because you're not receiving any tax revenue from that money. So

from from that property well so the thing that is helping you over and that this is specifically what he said but overcoming the demographic faults with the the financial stability that you're providing from the good reserves and the good fund balance those things when I say we could consider you for AAA is this is so good that we're not looking as strongly at this.

Yep. So they have said if your fund balance continues to grow, if your reserves continue to grow, I think the next bond sale is in 2028. 2028, um, we may consider you then, but you would have to basically stay on the same course, which as I said, you know, the fund balance has grown fairly nicely over the last several years. I would say it's probably more leveling off. So, we'll see what that is, right? You don't you don't want to over overburden the taxpayers in order to increase fund balance, but you want to keep a good balance between keeping taxes as low as possible, but being fiscally responsible.

Well, when we talked about Floren Park, uh I mean, Rockway Township has an inventory of 10,000 units basically, a little over 9,000 of residential, 250 plus. When it comes to business and farm assessment, maybe u 65 to 100 of that. And then we have the Rockway Mall which is a $9.7 million contributor. And then we have Tilcon and Pawn View. And collectively they're about a little over 30% of our budget that we collect. That's not considered robust. So Mr. Sarinelli, I just and that's a great question, Councilman Kelly. So would one of the things you just highlighted in your previous statement was they're looking for businesses that are recessionproof. Would a shopping mall be considered recession proof? If you ask me that in 1998, I would say yes. Are you asking me that in 2026? I would say no.

Yeah. So, our mall is a problem. It's it's good in that it is a big ratable. As you said, it pays a ton of taxes. They also do a tax appeal every single chance they get, which is not helpful. Still so part of their business. Huh? They're expected to do that. that's that is their business model is to appeal their taxes as as often as

well. It's also based on vacancies and and uh you know empty areas too that create those issues. But I think our tax assessment uh department does a phenomenal job with upkeeping with that. The the other thing we had here was uh in regards to getting money to go into our reserves to make them uh so-called robust. Are there things that are considered like fund generators in order to dump money into those reserves? That'll make an example. Um, if we have uh positions that are vacant that have no person in there, but we still salary that position, where does that money go that's not being distributed to an employee because they're it's vacant?

So, yeah. Un so unexpended funds go back into your fund balance. So yes, they help generate that and they and they can in certain circumstances be used to help uh replenish reserves. Yeah. Right. And then if we had increased budget lines that are above what maybe that department or that line item really needed, that extra amount of money that's not used that was proposed more than what was needed, that too, if approved, would go back into the reserves or the fund balance.

Good. So, it's a tactic actually of what departments do, municipalities, is they increase certain line items. They fund uh non-positioned um employment areas with no interest or no bodies going in there to increase our reserves. Would that be accurate? Can I just No, no, no. I never I didn't interrupt you, so don't interrupt me, please. Mr. Sarinelli. So, so I I don't get into what what makes up the appropriation side of your budget and who is budgeted or what is budgeted. But does that does that happen?

I I I don't know. I'm not part of the conversation of why numbers are budgeted. I just tell you what happens with numbers that are budgeted. So yes, if a if a town budgets for a position uh to not be filled, um it could be purposeful to replenish a reserve. I I don't I don't get into those. So that to me, I have to remain independent. I can't help you make decisions on what should be done, especially on the appropriations. like as an auditor, you don't get involved in the the budget process with our administration of where monies is going to be diverted or moved to or taken from. It's more about the long-term plan. I help with that, but in building the appropriations of the budget, like we are going to budget a million dollars for police salary and wages, I I don't look into why you're bu putting that money there. I just tell you what can happen with that money um and how it will affect the budget. It it I I can't get involved in that part of the budget. Otherwise,

we rely on our administration then the to do that right the diligence of our department heads and our administration moving forward. And then last, um, when there is emergency, uh, uh, needs, like we were talking before, Sandy, uh, Irene, um, some of these snowstorms that are considered state of emergencies, there is a process though for application to FEMA in order to get funds back uh, for whatever the hours or needs or whatever requirements of materials and whatnot that would be there. So even though it could be a temporary thing of paying monies out of the reserve, there is always that possibility. Maybe you made one circumstance of an example where we didn't get a 100% of what they agreed that would be funded. Um, but there is that possibility of getting that money back.

There is a possibility on the on some of the larger type items. I I would say like the pass two snow you're probably not going to get. FEMA, we don't even know if it was even attempted and maybe we'll find that out through the budget meeting. It usually has to be that the federal government declares a state of emergency. Um, and while we think this snowstorm was bad, there's places that get a lot worse snowstorms and so the national government doesn't tend to view that as a national emergency. Um, but nothing bars us from attempting uh you cannot get FEMA money unless the federal government declares it a state of emergency.

Okay? If the state declares it a state of emergency that that that doesn't matter. It has to be the federal government declares uh it a state of emergency then you can be eligible for FEMA funds but unless the federal government declares that you cannot pay FEMA. Okay.

One thing sorry if I could uh on the way to this AAA bond rating I think we're we're close to being there because you're saying if we increase ratables uh that's what they're looking at a long-term ratables right. So I'm looking at, you know, for the last 3, four years, like the mayor said, we lowered the uh the tax rate, right? So would you attribute the fact that the big doughut places coming to Rockway Township? Uh Cashia moved from Casio was in what? Do I believe they moved to Rockway Township? We have Aldi opening up in the strip mall. And uh my understanding is they're signing long-term lease contracts. I mean leases, right? 15, 10, 20, something like that. Uh, is that something that's additional revenue that's coming in obviously because of the lower tax rate, right? And am I along the lines here?

More attractive it is your town is and it's not on a taxpayers. It's not there. It's coming from the businesses to to New England. That's right. And I I don't know that a local business would be looking at that, but a a national type businesses that you're talking about Aldi. Um I think it's Dunkin Donuts. I I don't know. Yeah. factory a national company like that definitely looking at um your tax rate and um publication to 80. Okay, public safety. I always say public safety, right? All right. Um thank you.

Okay. Um in conclusion for that, I mean over the last month, Livingston Mall has shut down. Um East Brunswick Mall has shut down and our mall is bringing businesses in. So I think that they're doing a good job. Um, okay. Anything else? Unless you have any more questions. No, I think we're good. Um, I appreciate your time. I know this is your moment. So, thank you. Will you be are Thank you for giving me the time. Are you leaving? You're you're done. Uh, unless No, no, no. You're free to stick around for lunch, but No, no. I appreciate it. No. Yeah, I You're going to have your victory party. I understand. Thank you. Okay. I'm going. Please tell your father.

Believe all the stress that you guys just leave. Exactly. Please tell your father, Ray, that that we say hello and we appreciate everything he did and and you filling in for it's a hard shoes to fill to fill in your dad. That's for sure.

All right, let's move on to the uh to the meat of of the meeting, if you will. Um I I have a couple notes and a couple things I want to cover. Um, and a lot of this is maybe for our our new council members or for our other council members who may have uh forgotten. If there is any motion to increase a line item, that vote needs to be twothirds of the council. Right? So, a simple majority will not suffice. Well, you will need six affirmative votes. If we make if somebody makes a motion to reduce a line item, that is a simple majority. five vote to require. Okay. Um there's been some emails going back and forth um from Mr. Kelly. Uh I I certainly appreciate the the research that was put in. Um he

What was the substance of the emails? I'm going to go over right now. Okay.

Um there was a bunch of questions that were raised. Um again, I I appreciate the research. Um Mr. Kelly certainly has his opinions. Our legal counsel has their opinions. Um, we obviously are going to go with the opinions of our legal counsel. So, there's a couple points that I will go over for the council's benefit. Um, Mr. Kelly referred to NJSA 4069A-37.1 requesting that he be told the name of the mayor's designate. Um, not only does that statute have nothing whatsoever to do with uh communications between us and the administration, the mayor is here. Okay. Uh, he asserted uh NJSA 4069A-36 and 37 supports quote the council's lawful powers to investigate um, inquire and removal of municipal offers and settings of salaries. Now, while the statute um authority does include the ability to investigate certain situations, uh in order for a council to use its investigative power, it's necessary for the council to pass an appropriate resolution uh by a majority of council members. Okay? So, obviously, it is is their right. Um but at that point, it would have to move to a resolution and then a a majority. Um, one of the main concerns I have for the meeting today is I I need to make crystal clear that there will be absolutely no discussions and it will not be tolerated any discussions pertaining to any individual employees. All right, or job positions in which the employee is identical because there's only one person. Okay. um we have no authority uh for allowing

that discussion and we will not be doing that. Now every section of the budget that deals with salaries um has a provisional line all right which we can discuss and while we may not be able to discuss individual um personnel you certainly have your right to express your opinion by voting yes or no on that section of the budget. Okay. Um, more importantly, section 2-5.1 of the of our code gives the council president to uh the authority to determine how council business must be conducted. Um, under that authority, I am stating that I will not permit any discussion, questions, or issues to be raised concerning any individual township employee. Uh section 2-5.1 uh also gives any member of the council the ability to object to a determination that the council uh president makes. Um if any council member disagrees with a determination made by the council president uh you may object in which case the objecting um person uh should make a motion and then that motion must be seconded to allow a vote. If there's no second it automatically fails. If the vote uh fails, then obviously the motion um will fail. Um we put out a request for all council members um to review the budget. We got these budget books a month ago. Um obviously plenty of time for the council to go through the budget um on their own line by line. Um for everybody's uh edification, we requested that any questions pertaining to that count uh to the budget be directed to our business administrator CFO um in order to give her ample time to research and and give

a proper response. Okay. At that point, um, I took that email,

um, completely unredacted or adjusted and I took those responses and I forwarded them to the council as a whole so they could then review those questions and answers um, for their own edification also in an attempt to keep uh, duplication of effort at a minimum. So many council members uh, did do that uh, and I appreciate your your time. Um, some council members did not do that. Um, most likely because their questions were answered by somebody else. Um, this is my sixth budget. Um, and and I appreciate the effort. Uh, that process did go smoothly. Again, thank you for the council members that raised those questions. Um, on a complete side note, I mentioned that this is my sixth budget. I do want to recognize that this is Councilman Quinn's 25th budget. uh his his first budget he did reduce um by four uh animal pelts and four bushels of wheat and he is the one who approved leather helmets for the rockets back in the day. So again, thank you for your for your service on the council and again 25 budgets. That is certainly something um to be proud of.

How many for you Manny? 13. So took a break.

He couldn't do it. Um the other piece I' I'd like to point out um and it kind of puts it in perspective um for the for the council I I asked Miss Paul Mary uh to basically run the numbers for me to to break it down for me. I always use the term for me, you know, dumb it down, break out the crayons for me. Uh, I am not an accountant. You know, this is what you guys do for a living. Okay? So, I ask you guys to break it down into simple language that I can understand. To put it into perspective, every $10,000, let's say a council member makes a uh makes a motion to increase a line item $10,000. So every 10,000 actually a little bit more than $10,000 will increase residents taxes by $1 a year. Average the average homeowner. Okay. Same thing. I know sometimes we will look to reduce something by $10,000, right? Let's say we I'm picking on you, Captain. We red we we vote to reduce the police vehicle budget by $10,000. Okay. that will represent $1 less for every for the average resident over the course of the year. And for me, the the police department's worth a buck. All right. So, again, I just want to put that in perspective for everybody. Um again, as we go, we're going to go through the budget. There's going to be a lot of great recommendations and and we're going to we're going to do that. Um the way this will work is for each tab of the budget um every council member will have three minutes. Okay? I would urge you to spend those three minutes asking your questions. Uh Miss Palmary will write down those questions and then she will respond to those questions. It is not then a rebuttal and a back and forth. Okay? We have had a month to ask questions. So we can uh again for each tab it is three minutes.

Again it's it's um if you want to use those three minutes to go back and forth and ask questions that is certainly your right. Okay. But again knowing that we've had a month to go over this um it is it is very fair at this point um to offer uh that time. Um, I know some council members will reply that we were asking the questions because the public wants to know. Um, the public has also had ample time and they were offered um time this morning to ask questions. Um, I I do expect this to be very beneficial for the public. I think this is the the largest gathering we've had uh for a budget. I encourage it. I'm happy to see the public here. Um and that part um as we go through the budget, we will go through the tabs. Um once a tab is deemed complete, um I will summarize it and I will make a motion to pass that section or tab at which point the council will vote. Okay. Now, to start off the process, there can I add in one thing real quick?

Yeah, sure.

Thank you. Uh just I just wanted to make mention since we're talking about the budget and everything and um you know Rockway Township's proposed budget I'm just going to approximate about $43 million. The regional and school budget thank you is approximately $94 million. Also one thing that people forget about is our county budget. Okay. The county commissioners meet Wednesdays twice a month. their budget from Rockway Township, $15 million. So, I just I just want people to know that their taxes are made up of three really different things. And we appreciate everyone coming our meetings twice a month, as we know. We also have the school ones and also the county ones. And I don't think anyone here has ever attended besides myself and probably Councilman Sber. So, just just some three things to look at where our tax money is going. Thank you. I think it's

I could just John that was great. If I could just follow with John and uh Mr. um uh Morrison uh with your 15inute intro. Uh one what I had mentioned for your reply was my concern was the council members were communicating through administration and each other which would create a potential open to the public meeting act violation of having a quorum of conversation about township business. So that was one one of the main issues that we had and one council member was asking about provisional salary adjustments and there was a response about that person's position and what they do and for the reason of the increase again that would be another violation of the open public meeting act under 1068B and also would require that individual to be riceed which was a Supreme Court ruling on Rice versus Union County Regional School Board. So that was the information that I was concerned about and didn't participate in those continued conversations that Mr. Morrison created a policy to do so. So that being one of the issues that we have. Uh the other thing is we we have a budget book that is this huge. There's multiple tabs in here over 250 pages and he made a comment about the public coming up and not saying a word. You don't get to see this. As a matter of fact, when you request for it, they won't give it to you. So none of you have a clue of each line item of everything that's taking place here. Salaries, materials, increases, benefit costs, none of that. Vacancies. So for our council president to somewhat ridicule because the public had an opportunity to come up here and speak, what would you even know to speak about because you don't get the opportunity to see this. So when we have conversations at a budget meeting, we have open public meetings so that this council can deliberate and talk amongst each other lawfully rather than have backdoor conversations that Mr. Morrison loves to do and then exclude who you the public. So that's the issue. And the other thing is the other department heads don't get

to see the other areas of the budget of other departments. So they don't know what's going on. So the left doesn't know what the right's doing and vice versa. But guess what? We do. And what Mr. Morrison doesn't want to do because of his lack of of interest of transparency to the taxpayers and to the residents and business owners is to keep all that information under wraps. So how he makes these comments subliminally identifying me as somebody that's a fiscally conservative guy or maybe a radical guy likes to cut money. No, I look at needs and wants. I have a business. If I ran my business like Mr. Morrison would like to run a business, I'd be out of business because it's not Mr. Morrison's money. I'm still have the floor. You do not have the floor

because Mr. Morrison does not recognize doesn't care about the taxpayers money. So when he talks about there being a dollar of savings on the ground, you wouldn't walk over that dollar. You'd still pick it up. Enough. Let's move on. Okay. And listen, I I'm sorry guys that this is turning into for whatever reason. Mr. Kelly You probably get in Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. Okay. Mr. Kelly, stop lying to the public. Mr. Kelly,

Mr. Kelly, and to the public, I'm sorry that this is turning into some kind of campaign debate. All right. Um, just to address some of that, which I feel now I need to do, Mr. Kelly did raise again which to him was a valid point um that the discussions on email were an OPMA violation. It did go to legal counsel who determined that it was not

Mr. Kelly provided no case law to support it other than it wasn't a right terminating factor of that the prosecutor's office is the ones that review open public meeting violations was not sent to them for review and determination and opinion again the full truth you are not recognized and you are not telling the truth please stop acting like this you're the one that's creating it Mr. Kelly, I'm only correcting. You are not recognized, nor are you in a position to correct anybody. All right. You are not a lawyer. All right. You do I lower taxes by a million and a half in 18 and 19 by gutting the funds that were needed.

Reduce services, Mr. Kelly with a robust campaigning. I'm not guys, please. Mr. Quinn, let's take a break. Mr. Mr. Kelly, you are extremely out of order. Okay, now there's Mr. Kelly. Stop talking. Okay. Um, again, please take what Mr. Kelly or any council member makes with a grain of salt. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. We will always rely Mr. Kelly. Please, you can stop right now. Mr. Morrison. Mr. Kelly.

You see, you can't. Please, are we on the playground? No. You're acting like you threw the ball first, Mr. Morrison.

Mr. Kelly, it's enough. It's just enough. Okay, now moving on. Moving on. Listen, I'll put on the side if anybody has any questions about the accusations made by Mr. Kelly, please feel free to get with me and I'll be happy to discuss them. Okay, moving on. There are certain sections of the budget which are non-negotiable. Um most of them are fixed cost contracts, grants, things like that. Um so we are going to uh I am going to make a motion to go through those sections um and approve them in bulk. Uh they're not open for discussion. They are non-negotiable. Okay. So, I make a motion um to pass uh tab 4 in its entirety um which deals with insurance. Um tab five section 83 which deals with our LOAP contract. Tab six section 119 which deals with our condo reimbursement. Tab seven in its entirety which is our contract for garbage and trash removal. Section 10 in its entirety which deals with the public library and that's per statute. Section 14 in its entirety which deals with pension and social security which is again per statute. Section 16 in its entirety which is is our grants. It's money in so we don't want to mess with that. And then sections 18, 19, and 20 in their entirety, which deals with uh fixed debt source and again by statute. And then section 22 in its entirety, which is our open space, and it's fixed, which is based on our tax valuation. There is a motion on the floor. Is there a second?

Second discussion. There is no discussion on this because Mr. Kelly, there is no discussion on this condo public. Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. You're not going to have Mr. Kelly, there is no discussion allowed because it is non-negotiable. So you're saying, Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. Clerk, please take order. Mr. Morrison, point of order. That's from information. Point of order. Just so I understand, you're not going to allow me to ask a question about the condo reimbursement of a certain area under uh tab 619. That is that is correct. I had 30 days to ask question. You did not. Clerk, please take the role. Uh, go ahead. Sorry. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Voyovich, yes.

Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freay, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, no. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Marson,

yes. Eight yeses, one no. Motion carries. Okay, now we're going to move on to the meat of the budget. What I'm going to do is we will uh go over I will call a certain tab um or section. I would ask the representatives for those sections to please come up to the table next to Miss Palmary. Um at which point um again we will open it up to the council for discussion. There is a threeminut time limit. Um I'm asking everybody to respect that time and respect each other. Again, if you wish to use that time, you can ask questions. Um, if you wish to use it for a back or forth, it is your time to do so. We are going to start and I have to move for timing reasons, I have to move some things around. Um, so we are going to start with uh tab 8 uh section 124, which is our health department. If I could have uh M please take the hot seat. more.

No. All right. Now, we will go through the um we'll go through the timing uh with the three minutes in the same order that we do the uh the roll call. Uh so we are going to start with Mr. Salberg. No question. Okay. Uh we are going to go to Councilman Wovich. No questions. Thank you. And again, just to remind the public, if there's no questions now, it's because those questions were satisfied over the last month that they had to ask questions. Councilman Freedellander, uh, Councilwoman Roya, no questions. Councilwoman Freed, no questions. Thank you. Council member Quinn,

my questions were answered. Thank you. Council member Kelly, uh, Mr. Tab it. Thank you for coming here and putting uh together your budget and knowing you um throughout the years and being in accounts. You do a phenomenal job. Uh a very detailed guy. So I'm I'm very confident with the budget that you assembled. But I do have a question on the provisional for department promotion salary adjustments uh which you're requesting uh five $5,000.

Hang on. And I'm not taking your time. I just want to No, no, no. I stopped the timer. Um, again, if if when you bring up a section just for the rest of the council, if you can just mention the page and the line so they so we're all looking at the same thing. Well, it be page 125. Okay. I did stop your time. Can I have elevation that I stopped the time? And and uh Go ahead,

Mr. Tabet. we have in in 23 and 24 um both were $5,000 of salary adjustments and then we have $8,000 for salary adjustments and now we have $5,000 for salary adjustments. Uh so over that course of time is $23,000 collectively for salary adjustments. Um those who received the salary adjustments of $8,000 are they still employed? Yes. So, we're giving an additional $5,000 in in to the $8,000 that was given last year for salary adjustments. Uh, no, that's not accurate. Okay. Can explain that.

Well, first with regard to your your first question or comment, uh, I don't recall whether uh those budgeted salary adjustments were provided each of those years. They may have, but I just honestly don't remember. Um, they were in the budget. So if they weren't provided in the years and the money was put aside and approved that went back into a general fund again giving, you know, taking money from the taxpayers for something that wasn't being used. No, I I don't make a final decision on if that salary adjustment is I understand that. Um but with regard to last year's uh this year's $5,000 requested salary adjustment doesn't pertain to the um the allotment last year or to the employees. Who does it pertain to this year? Just identifying the position.

He cannot identify that position. No, you're not. I'm asking the name of the person, but the position is going. He's not allowed to name the position. There's no there's no provision that says he cannot. Mr. Kelly, I'm not allowing question. Mr. Please do not answer. You have my three minutes. You're interrupting it right now. You're not allowed to ask that question. I object. Is there a uh is there a second to Mr. Kelly's objection that we name the position? Motion doesn't carry. Please carry on. So, what is the money being used for the 5,000? Do you have a somebody? Do you have a position that you're identifying? Not the name of the position. Uh, yeah, absolutely. Is it one position, two positions? It is one name position. Yes.

And what would be the reason for a salary adjustment of 5,000? Uh, basically for having for not being able to have a competitive salary in that position. Explain for a a professional position uh where employees may not be a we may not be able to retain employees because we're not offering a competitive salary and employees are going elsewhere to attain a better salary. And is this in addition to like a 3% increase that we have? Correct.

Okay. So they're getting their increase. Now, all of your employees aren't getting a section of this a piece of this 5,000. That is correct. Okay. You interrupted me for two minutes. I did not. So, I object. Is there Mr. Kelly? Is there a motion on the table from you? Uh, my motion is to um reduce the uh salary adjustments from 5,000 to 2500. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salbert. I'm sorry. Who seconded? Uh, Adam. Thank you. I'm sorry. Mr. Sber.

Yes. Council member Voytovich. No. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Royek. Yes. Council member Freed. Yes. Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sackett, yes. Council President Marson, no. Uh, it is six yeses, three nos. Motion carries. Miss Pome, are you taking notes on this? Right. Okay. Um, Council Vice President, second. I have nothing. Thank you.

Okay. Um, and the only comment I have is again, Mr. Kelly made a comment that we were quote taking money from the taxpayers. That is not necessarily the case. It is. It's Mr. Kelly, I don't interrupt you. Correct. Mr. Kelly, again, Mr. Kelly, I am order. Mr. Morrison, I'm going to continue to do this if you're going to say untruthful things to the public. The money was was approved and it wasn't used and the money that wasn't used goes back into a fund. So, the taxpayers, which is used to lower the tax, they paid $8,000. So that's $8 that somebody would pick up on the floor if it was there. It's 80 cents. 80ent every 10. Right. Okay. I still change. Please clarify.

So whatever we appropriate, we do not spend it. It is correct. It goes back into fund balance as Sarinelli had explained which is used ultimately offset taxes to lower taxes. So it it is going back to Thank you. Okay. Is it still collected from the tax? Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. Is it still collected? Mr. Kelly, you are not recognized. No. Okay. Um uh with understanding that I make a motion to pass section 8 in its entirety. Second it. Okay. Clerk, can you take the role? Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Votovich.

Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Royek. Yes. Council member Freed. Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Marson. Yes. That is nine yeses. Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Tabet. Um, you still have animal control. No, it was section 8 in its entirety. Oh, I'm just I thought you were asking. No, I said thank you. You're done. It's painless, right? He's not done. He's not done with the section. You are. You want me to sit down and then return or? Yeah. What? Uh, we were going to go over Well, that's section 8. That's health department recycling and animal control.

So, there was no comment on the section 8. We're doing it by tab by section. All right. So, we're doing it by section. I make a motion to open tab eight. That was section is already passed. I'm saying make a motion to reconsider to reopen tab eight so we can talk about each line.

You talked about health services is how you displayed not only myself but the public. Motion does not pass. Thank you, M. Uh we are going to move to tab 17 and after this we're going to start going in order. Um tab 17 for our municipal court and public defender. Uh, opening up for discussion. Councilman Sberg. Uh, my question was answered. Thank you. What was that question?

Mr. Kelly, all questions were sent email over the course of the last month. You had ample time to look at them. The public didn't get an opportunity. Mr. Kelly, you are out of order. I make a motion to have Mr. Sberg identify what his question was so that the public will have a greater understanding of how it was answered. Is there a second transparency everybody? I'll second that. Okay. Uh uh you can easily answer it, Mr. Salberg, rather than go through the process. Mr. Kelly, you're making us go out of process. Please take the No. Council member Sberg. Mr. Rtovik. Did I do I say that correctly? Vtovich. Go ahead. Take the role. Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Voytovich. Yes.

Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Royek, yes. Council member Freed, uh, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, no. Council President Marson, no. Seven yeses, two nos. Motion. Seven members of this council want Mr. Kelly, please. This is not your show. All right. This is for the entire council. I'm asking you to remain quiet. Mr. Morrison, you are out of order. Respond. Mr. Mr. Kelly, you got what you wanted. You are out of order. We don't need to go through let Adam answer the question. We don't need to go through answer the question. It's not that exciting. I simply wanted an explanation for the increase in the proposed amount and provision for salary adjustments.

And what was the answer you received? Receive it was for additional services that would be provided by those employees. Okay, there you go. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Wovich, no. No, I have no uh Council Member Freedellander. Councilwoman Royer, no. Councilwoman Freed, uh no. Councilman Quinn, no.

Councilman Kelly, yes. Uh, one I would like to say that um, and I've hear from so many other uh, areas within the county that we have a phenomenal court here uh, because of you and also because of our honorable judge Smith. Um, and I don't know if the public are aware or maybe some of the council members here, but we just don't do one court in Rockaway. Um, how many courts do we do? We do three. We do three. And it's also a generation of of monies that we charge the other municipalities for the services that you provide for them. Y

and it saves those municipalities and we also create uh monies to offset revenue. We don't really make money but that's the idea of what it is,

right? And um because of that there's additional work that's brought upon the court uh our our judge uh yourself your staff and um the uh the administration I or I should say the building itself. Um and that's the reason why some of these increased costs that are being set aside. Um, and then lastly, uh, it really comes down to honorable judge Minkawitz that really approves this budget and has the the we can do whatever we want on this budget, but it really comes down to honorable judge Mowitz to make those decisions. Yes. Uh, we have this been our budget to Judge Mowitz in December. And then and he approved this. He did.

He did. Okay. I have no further questions. Thank you, Council Vice President. Yeah. Thank you. Uh, council president. Um, under the provision for salary adjustments, one of the questions I had asked. So, I am very transparent. Thank you. I do appreciate that. Okay. Um, you should maybe give that guidance to your I'm always I'm always transparent.

Like an open book. Um, the proposes 9790. the mayor um actually had recommended 7290 and I agree with the mayor and I'm going to make a motion to cut the 9790 to what the mayor proposed 7290 a $2,500 savings just for clarification 198 197 1971 198 on the bottom okay uh there's a motion is I'll second that I'm sorry what was the amount from 9790 to the mayor's recommendation of $72.90, which is a $2,500 savings.

Uh, cler, please take the role. To reduce it from 9790 to 7290 7290. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Votovich, yes. Council member Freellander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, abstain. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. All that. Council President Morrison, yes. Uh, eight yeses, one abstension. Motion passes. Um, you still have time, Mr. Second. That is it. Thank you.

Okay. Um, I make a motion to pass approve section 17 that in its entirety. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Stalberg, yes. Council member Voytovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freeday, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sackett. Yes. Council President Morrison. Yes. Nine yeses. Motion carries. Thank you. Um

Okay. As we move a as we move on now through the budget, I I just want to remind the council that your time is for asking questions, not making statements. We all obviously we all appreciate the work that everybody's doing. Um I know they appreciate you saying it, Mr. Kelly. Anybody else is going to say it again but your time is for asking questions. Okay. Um now we are going to move on to tab one. Now tab one is a pretty extensive se section. Um again I would urge the council um it may generate a decent amount of questions. Um Miss Pomeary be prepared to write them down. Um and unless the council member specifically asks at that point for a response um wait until the end and then you will have proper time to respond. Your response um because it is very substantive because it means a lot.

Um you will not have a time limit. Um but when the uh uh when administration responds it at that point it's not like a back and forth. It's not followup. All right. Again, everybody has had a month uh to go over this and ask questions. So, with that, I am going to open up tab one and we will start with Councilman Salberg. Question. Okay. Uh Councilman Bovich, no question. Councilman Freellander. Councilwoman Roy. Yeah,

it's the administration administrative expenses. You're welcome. I'll be sure to do that in the future. It's a valid point. Um, Councilman Quinn, did I call on you? Uh, Councilwoman Freed, sorry. Uh, no questions. Councilman Quinn, no questions. Councilman Kelly provisional salary address since 5,000 which page uh two and there's a lot in this Mr. uh Morrison. There's there's no way three minutes based on that's going to be tough. I'm sorry. We're going to try,

right? And there's extensions that you can give it to and if you can just restore my time for that. $5,000 for salary provisions. Was it what's what uh position is it for? Why don't you write down his questions? We can answer him. I don't want to take your time, but go ahead. Well, no. So, is it cuz we're going to have to make motions on each tab as we go on the tab in its entirety. Tab one. Just go through a ball. Okay. But it's three three minutes going to be tough, John. I mean, this is a pretty thick area. Well, and again, Mr. Kelly, we we had a month to ask these. Yeah, but we we can't have quorum when we do those things as

again to your policy. We couldn't do that. We'd be unlawful. Legal advertising. Uh, we have a local finance notice and illegal advertising has changed now as of March 1st. Is it required to still have legal advertising on page three? Can I just answer them as we go? Yeah, I mean this is Go ahead. Um, so the provision for salary adjustments, you asked me what position it's for as a blanket response to all these questions. These are to give the mayor the ability to give um, I understand that. I I need to know the position. You're taking up so much of my time to answer a question on M. We will not be discussing positions. Where's the money going?

To answer that, if I can. Go ahead. Yeah. Yes. So, that is that is to give the mayor the ability to um with my recommendations is ultimately his response his uh decision as to where that money will. Is it going to one person or two people? In this case, it is going to one person. one person but each but I'm just saying as a blanket statement for all of these questions that many of these on the page three of legal advertising um is it required to do legal advertising anymore is it required it is we advertise for positions we advertise for various it's not just for this isn't for like open public stuff no

um conference and meetings uh it seems that $349 369 602 now you're asking for 1,500 And uh the history shows that it's been a third of that. I have um employees who are asking if they can attend conferences, education and so forth. And those conferences would only retain to their position or other positions to their position on legal services. Um we've had 24 was 57,000. We had in uh 25 29,000. Now you want Can you give me a page number? Seven. Well, we have 70,000 now. Um we're actually uh two and a half times the amount.

Okay. This is under uh human resources. Yes. A different we have six contracts that are expiring at the end of 26. So I anticipate that we will have um increased legal costs and services to settle those contracts. And would that serve into 227? That would probably it depends on whether we complete them by the end of the year. And then we have uh $9,000 um for personnel expenses. Originally it was requested for $7,000. Now it's recommended for nine. Why? Because we are trying to get this budget more in line with the actual expenses. So you can see that in 2023 we spent 64 and in 24 we spent 10,000 and last year we spent 9,300.

So all those efforts we haven't caught up then. This will have us caught up. Yes. Um, thank you for the courtesy, council president, and the time. Here we have um page 11 conferences and meetings. We have it uh going up an additional I mean the average hasn't even come close to the 1750. I wanted to give the council the opportunity to attend. We have three new members and I don't know what their expectations are. Okay. Nothing bars anybody from paying for themselves, right? That's correct.

Thank you. Um, we're getting close to the end. Uh, overtime page 14, we have uh uh overtime. That's um I'm sorry, page 15. on uh sub account uh 014 and um we've only had overtime that's been less than $2,000. Is there a reason why we are asking? Yes, we now have um additional assistance at our council meetings operating the new recording system and we have an employee who's been attending those meetings. I'm sure you've seen her.

Uh we have and in the past we didn't have that extra employee. Is there a requirement that one can't do it all? Not required. It's just working out a lot smoother having that employee here. And they're getting paid out of that overtime expense. Yes. It's not part of their their position over time. They're they're they're not an exempt employee. They're entitled to anything over 35 hours a week, 40 weeks. Right. And uh those that have been on page 14 uh that are salaried here and that have an increase, have any of those employees received any certificates to satisfy their positions of the requirement of the job description at this time?

Yeah. No certificate is scheduled to take place in April. So we're we're paying an increase to the salaries that haven't achieved the requirement for the job position. We are plan. It's a plan. It's not it hasn't happened yet. Okay. And we have on line 18 um salary adjustments. Which page? Uh 18. Page 18. Yeah. We have salary adjustments for $10,000. Correct.

So, Mrs. Paul Mary and and maybe I can get a better understanding on this particular area. Um, as a uh previous CFO, um, the salary for that was 156,000. And then combining the two salaries to being a combination of a business administrator and a CFO is basically a cost savings because you're eliminating a position and benefits that are there. But now the combined position of BA and CFO is uh $336,000. It's 248. And Mr. Kelly, please. We're not discussing individuals. Nobody's nobody's pointing anybody's name. Well, everybody knows who 48. It's not three whatever.

No, no, no, no. The the combined I'm sorry. You're right. The the the $248,000 that's there. Just rounding it off to an easy 250. And then during during your departure of Kelly, we cannot discuss this. During the departure of a CFO and a he cannot answer any questions, Miss Paulary, she doesn't he doesn't control you, Mrs. Paul Mary. Mr. I was very specific. You were putting this council in jeopardy. I'm not putting this council in jeopardy. You're not an attorney with legal opinion to do so. You have not provided any citation or any appeal of any decision to verify or support your position on that, Mr. So if I may. No, you may not. The combined position of a CFO MBA is You are out of order. Is $248,000 for those Kelly? You're out of order. No, I'm not.

You are out of order. Object. Is there a second to his objection? Mrs. Paul Mary, the the merger of a CFO and BA, right? That's salaried here because it's it's indicated. Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. It's indicated on 18. I object. Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. Was there another position created in the CFO's? Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. Was there a position created in the finance position? Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. No, I'm not. Was there Was there a senior account? This is not an R2R. Was there a senior account accountant added to finance? I'm sorry. You didn't increase the staff by one hire on 11. Look at the history.

Hang on. Had six in 2025 and we have six in 2026. I see three. I see on page 19 on page 19 we have a a new hire on 111 122 24 right the salary of that position is 87,000 Mr. Kelly, we cannot discuss. Yes, I can. It's in the budget. Just count the lines. It's six and six. I see with the lines that say three senior accountants on page 19. But if you look at the bottom line, it's six employees and six employees. If someone got promoted within the year, it's not an increase in the staff. It's just a shift from a senior accountant to a municipal treasurer, for example.

So, you did not add an there was not an employee added to the finance. Correct. But it shows I I don't I see three vague lines of positions that are there and each one has a salary on there. And we have a retireer of a municipal treasurer that used to be a senior accountant. Yes. And now we have two senior accounts and no treasurer. And listen, I think those are intelligent questions. All right. Like the question about six employees, six employees. I I'm asking you again, Mr. Kelly, just don't identify positions where there is one person. Again, the question about the six and six, very valid question, Kelly, I'm speaking.

I again, I I think it's a very valid question. All right. And again, I know you said that. I I I had legal counsel. All right. And I read it before. You're putting the council and the town in a dangerous position in legal jeopardy. Mr. Morrison, you would have to identify the name and ask the performance of an individual to require a rice notice to put us in potential litigation. You had an ability on May 6th that was actually asked to rice individuals, which would have been really easy. It would have been so cost effective. Maybe it would have cost $60 for the hour to create those nine rice notices. Instead, we had legal opinions that were trying to be graded by three different law firms. Mr. Kelly, you're not a lawyer, right? Neither are you.

You're not a lawyer, right? But the thing is I went to because you're friends with the town attorney. You're going to tell me this is what it is with no substantial evidence to prove your point. Okay. So stop. So here's where we're at, folks. We have professional fees on 22. Mrs. Paul Mary. Mr. Kelly, we have Kelly, you're not recognized. And we have um Mr. Kelly, expended in 2024. Mr. Kelly, we have expended in 2025. Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. You're asking for $74,600. Mr. Kelly, you're out of order. No, I'm not. It's not. You can't just say not it. Yes, I can. I have You can't. All right. So, I'm rescending your time. You can't rescend my time. I can rescend your time. I object.

You Does anybody object to uh Is there a second to uh Mr. Kelly's objection that I'm recalling his time? Point of order then, Mr. Morrison. Go ahead. Please explain to me why I can't continue to ask questions about this budget of a multiple page area in a tab when you constantly continue to interrupt me when I could have asked questions to the administrator resulting to this particular tab of the Can I answer without you interrupting? May I? You're the council president. Okay. Because neither should you, Mr. Manny

because this budget was provided a month ahead of time. Okay. Everybody had ample time to ask questions. All right. We specifically tried to avoid grandstanding. It's not grandstanding. Mr. Kelly.

Okay. We tried to avoid that. Um in addition, you came here and spent 20 minutes to a half an hour with Miss Palm Mary this week. All right. asking what I'm assuming is probably very similar questions. All right. You are clearly grandstanding. All right. Now, in in that vein, it is my belief. All right. I'm not saying it's a fact. It is my belief that you are trying to make other council members look like they are not doing due diligence. They do the job on their own. Mr. Kelly, it is my time. Okay. again, you are belittling the good work that the rest of this council does. Okay? And I'll be honest with you, it's not appreciated. So

when you make derogative comments about me, are you then Mr. Morrison? I never made a direct comment. You don't subliminal messaging and pointing out to me and if you're taking it subliminally, I can't help that. All right. If you're paranoid about that, I can't help you. Okay. Mr. Kelly, can I continue? No, you may not. Point of order, Mr. Morrison. You were not recogn. Why am I not allowed to continue in the tab? Because I gave you more than ample time. You interrupted me more than ample amount of time, Mr. Kelly. All right. You got the legal opinion on your rights requests. No, there was no legal opinion. You were given multiple emails from our legal counsel, which again, you are driving up our costs by these unnecessary

No, no, Mary yourself are driving up those costs for an easy request.

Look, here's where we're at at this point. All right. Here's where we're at. And I apologize to the public. Okay, here is where we're at. So far, I have given nine instances, nine, where Councilman Kelly was not recognized and he continued to speak. All right. I have given 10 out of orders to Mr. Kelly, which he did not recognize and he continued to speak. All right. It is within my right and I am giving it now. Mr. Kelly, you are getting an official warning at this point. You are clearly impeding the business of this council. You are purposely disrupting this council and the necessary and legal need for this council to review and approve a budget. All right. You are again my opinion quite frankly being a little childish. All right. In the things that you're saying it's not about who gets the last word. It's not about who shouts the loudest. Okay. It is about the due um the diligence that this council needs. We have over the last four years, all right, I know it's hard to believe on our own without you, we have been able to pass four budgets over the last four years, which according to our auditor puts us in a very good position. Okay. So, it is within my right and I am giving you an official warning. Should you interrupt one more time, okay, we are going to make a motion. All right. And one more time, your right to disrupt and speak will be revoked for the entirety of these hearings with the exception of being able to vote on a tap. And this is due to your purposeful disruption of the necessary legal proceedings.

Mr. Mr. Morrison, may I respond two minutes to your 10-minute inquiry or statement? Two minutes. So, Mr. Morrison, uh, one, did you receive an opinion on what you're actually stating right now? Of course, I did. And do you share the legal opinion amongst the other council members? I did.

And what was that legal opinion stating in a citation to support you actually freezing my right, my first amendment right to speak and represent my constituents in my ward as well as Rockway Lake Township? I it is under stop my clock. Oh, here it is. Section 2-5.1. And where does it say that in that? If you could read that section entirely, Mr. Kelly, no, you have I do not have to. You seem very eloquent in being able to

251. Mr. Morrison does not say that you can freeze my first amendment right to represent my constituents and ask questions at a budget meeting. Mr. Nothing in 251 says that you can do that. Mr. Kelly,

nothing says that you can control my vote in 251. Nothing says that you can stop me from talking or asking. What I have account is on 19 different times you actually interrupted me. You went into 15 minutes of dialogue. You've actually tried to belittle me and even call me childish. You're trying to give me opinion of what I am here to do. I'm not here to disrupt this council or this budget meeting. I am here to get answers to questions because the policy that you had actually made us follow to email everybody of this governing body and for our administration to get answers and then have that all given back is a violation of OPMA. And I did not want to participate in the illegal activity of those communications. So, if I have this this administration that's putting together a budget since November, public meetings, assembled all of these tabs and all these pages, I would think that the individual here that's requesting all of these tens of thousands of dollars and getting paid an enormous amount of salary can easily answer a question of a tab or a line. But instead, what I get, because I've not named one employee to actually invoke Rice or be a violation, you keep telling me that I'm doing something wrong and I'm putting us into some some type of legal downward spiral. You're wrong. I would have to mention the name in order to have a rights notice required to be in violation, which that has not happened. So, you're incorrect. So, rather than go back and forth and interrupt me and tell me that I'm out of order and everything else, let me ask a question. And that's the two minutes that

you want to give me an extension to finish my thought. I will not. Of course. Council President, I just want to say one thing if I could please. Go ahead. Uh you know because council me stated that we participate in an illegal act with violating or or I believe I said I believe the response that was made by the the uh the administration to us. How many council people do we need to have a quarum? Five. Five. Right. I don't know if you're aware, but all the responses in those emails, every single council members was was blind copied. So, we were not able to participate or discuss any of the responses we received from the township. So, that was not a violation of one and we did not participate anything illegal. How do you know? Did you ask inquire to all of these?

You just simply check who was the recipient of the email. It was not the council member. I would speak. Okay. Now again, just I'm not controlling your vote. You are certainly allowed to vote your conscience. Um yeah, you are Mr. Kelly. Mr. Morrison. Mr. Kelly, you're not recognized. I can't get my answer. How can I vote? Okay. You're telling him now to make the motion. I saw you give him the hand. My turn to vote. My turn. Can I go to this section now? You good? Yes. Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh page three. I have Well, I want to make a motion now. Page and let him make a motion. Yeah. I mean, I make a motion to uh provisional salary adjustments on

on uh two uh remove the $5,000 salary adjustment. Is there a second? Okay, I'm just going down here. Go ahead. Um on page three, sub account uh 21, uh we have uh conferences and meetings. Um that's legal advertising. Uh no conferences and meetings on 41. I'm sorry. 41. Um we have uh 349 uh 369 602. Just make your motion, please. Yeah. I just want to make sure everybody understands it.

They're very testing. You're interrupting me, please. Uh I I make a motion to reduce uh 042 or I'm sorry, 041 to $1,000 from 1500. Is there a second? Okay, carry on. I uh go through on 027 for legal services on page seven. That's sub account. I make a motion to reduce the 70,000 on uh 027 to 50,000. As you guys recall, she said that this will be going into 2027, not6,

starting in 26. It could go the end of 26, right? It will go in We're I'm going to starting working with my um white and blue collar in May. So, there will be legal costs in 26. Yep. And into 27, right? Not in 27. I'd like to wrap them up by the end of the year. That's my goal. Uh again, an 027 uh sub account on seven to reduce it to 50,000. Mrs. May we can actually get money if we need to. Mr. Kelly, please just make the motion. Well, she just spoke while I just did. Okay. Uh, so there's a motion on the table for, and just correct me if I'm wrong. Uh, page seven, line 27 from 70,000 to 50,000. Correct.

Okay. Is there a second? Okay, moving on. um conferences and meetings on page 11041 is the sub account reducing the 1750 to 1500 line 41. Is that the same thing that we discussed before? No. Okay. Well, we did I said there were three new council and I didn't know what their expectations were.

Okay. Um I'm sorry. Reducing it to what? uh just to uh 1500 as she mentioned it doesn't bar the individuals to pay for their own. Is there a second? Okay, moving on. Uh page 15, sub account 014, overtime. Okay. And we have uh overtime requested for 3,400 when in the average it's been less than 2,000. And I uh move a motion to reduce that to 2,00. Second that. Okay. Just to Adam,

I'm sorry, Mr. Sel. Just to confirm, page 15, line 14 from 3,400 to 2000. Correct. Okay. Uh there was a motion on the table. Please take the vote. Council member Sberg, yes. Council member Votovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Fred, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Marson, yes. Nine yes. This motion carried.

Uh sub account 022 of the same page postage. Uh the average has been under 34,000. Um it's requesting almost 40,000. Um I move to remove to reduce it to 35,000. Uh, is there a I'll Thank you, Mr. Freeman. I'm sorry. Just to confirm, page 15, line 22. Go ahead. No, I'm just No, the motion's on the floor. It's already done. So, we have going up. We just had a second. Thank you. Cler, please take Who seconded that? Uh, council. Thank you. Can you give us the numbers again? Uh, page 15, line 22. No, we know, but what's the reduction? 35,000

from 39 to 397 to 35. Uh, clerk, please take the role. Council member Sberg, no. Council member Votovich, no. Council member Freellander, yes. Council member Royek, no. Council member Freay, no. Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, uh, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, no. Council President Morrison, no. Seven nos, two yeses. Motion does not pass. It's line seven. Line 77. Cell phones.

Guys, perfect timing. Can I give the general the old general, please silence your cell phone? Silence. That's a fire alarm from 1940. All right. Um I'm sorry, Mr. Kelly. Line 77 from what to what? Cell phones. Uh to zero 500 to zero. There's an active phone in this department. Okay. You had requested zero and now there's an active phone in that department. Okay. So, if it went to zero, you'd remove that phone, right? The phone. There's a motion on the table. Is there a second? Okay. Motion fails.

Uh 120 photocopier. Um we have uh expended less than $3,000. Uh now it's up um uh 50%. Um, I make a motion to reduce it from 45 to 3500. Is there a second? Motion fails. Uh, page 20, sub account 14. Um, and the last uh three years we've only used $551 for overtime. Um you're requesting 2,000. Obviously, we haven't even used uh below 600 we used in all those years. So, I make a motion to reduce it to a,000.

Is there a second? I'll second that. All right. So, just to confirm, page 20, line 14, correct? Yes. To reduce from 2,00 to 1,000. Correct. And that's I'm sorry. That's overtime for which department? My finance department. Finance department. Okay. Um, who seconded that? All right. It's Mr. Witch. Councilman. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg. Yes. Council member Vtovich. Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Royer. Yes. Council member Freed. Yes.

Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Marson. Yes. That's nine. Yes. This motion passes. Page 22 028. Uh the amount of monies that have been um expended uh in 23 and 24 has been less than 50,000 and we have 60,000 that was expended in 2025 from an adopted budget of 702.

Uh now we are asking uh it was requested for 70,000 then it was bumped up recommendation for 74,000. I make a motion to reduce it to 60,000. Um the motion's on the table. So we're talking about page 22 line 288 which is 28 information technology but if you look I would suggest we look at as a whole because I'm trying to reallocate where the monies are actually being hit on these lines. There's only three lines but in total the we have a motion that's on the floor 166. Mr. Kelly this is for transparency just for no I'm just going by the hypocritical aspect when you were before you anybody else. Okay, good. And we can continue it this way.

So 7 uh page 2228. Correct. From what to what? Mrs. Paul Mary, can you repeat what you said for transparency? For transparency. This overall budget information technology. The adopted budget in 2025 was 166090. The 2026 recommended is 16690. But there's room for reduction. trying to reallocate where the monies are spent within those three lines. But in the professional fees that we had that was adopted uh in 2025 uh the 7,200, we didn't even come close to expending any of that. I'm just saying he's I understand what you're asking, Mr. Kelly, but it's just what is it that I'm asking?

No, no, no. I understand you're asking questions as far as to the specifics of it. That was part of your initial with the motion again in transparency. What I'm trying to do is just a get clarification on what the line means again for the public and maybe no offense for some of the new council members who may not uh understand what it's for. So there's a motion on the table and your motion was for page 22 line 28 to go from what to what it was originally requested for 70,000 and recommended for 74,000 with no explanation. Uh so my my motion is to reduce that to 60,000. If council members feel that maybe we can Mr. Kelly, please just make the motion. Yeah, there's a is there a second

motion bill uh line 21 or I'm sorry p I think it's page 26. So yeah, page 26. Um line 026 equipment maintenance. Um, we've only spent over the years uh less than $300. Uh, so I make a motion to remove the recommended of $850 to 500. And that's equipment for what, Miss Bulary?

That's maintenance of um equipment includes our drop box outside, our walk-in safe. These are not covered under contract as needed for the tax office. And you've had them for quite some time, Mr. Kelly? We've had those items for quite some time. Yes. So if it's only been expuned, Mr. Kelly, please. I'm just trying when I ask, it's just literally to gain the information of what it's for specific. I'm just continuing that information from Mrs. Pomeary. Mr. Kelly, I'm not asking you for I'm not asking you to ask. So my motion is uh to reduce that from 850 since it hasn't been spent. It's been spent under 300 to 500. It's just simple. Is there a second?

Nickel and dimes make dollars, Manny, guys. So we have uh you didn't warn Mr. Freellander. We have uh line 028. Which line? Which page? Same page. Okay. Uh 5100. We've obviously have a record of not spending anything last year under 3,000. So uh I I make a motion to reduce that to 4,000. And that's for Miss Palmer. Sorry. Line 28. What's it for? Professional consulting. I don't know if anybody's looking at the the backup pages. If you look on the pages 27 and 28, and this is for all the budgets, it gives a description of what these items are for.

Well, but again, it's I see also no problem with uh I can read read with um transparency on that. So 028 is for um foreclosure costs, municipal leans, our uh agreement with micro systemystems, and our direct mail for the final bills and the estimated bills. Okay. Your motion, Mr. Kelly, was to go from 5100 to 4,000 to 4,000. Is there a second motion?

We're almost there, Mr. Morrison. No, you're good. We have page 31 04 overtime.

Everybody on here? Yep. So, uh, we have obviously it shows that there hasn't been any overtime expended throughout this whole entire period and now we're requesting 2,000. I make a motion to reduce that to 500. Is there a second? Motion fails. Um 028 professional consulting fees. Um we've expended only $4,000 last year from the adopted budget. So we put 4,000 back in reserves. Now we're requesting uh another $8,000. So I make a motion to reduce that to 5,000. Can I can I interject?

Yes. This this these bills come in usually in January for the previous years. So that um this this is cut off at 121 year end, but it's actually a two-year budget cycle. So the money goes into the reserves at the end of the second year. So there are um January bills that have yet to be paid as of this moment. What were the amount of the bills to be paid, Mrs. Bulberry? It's it's closer to eight. Like you can see in 24 we spent 7150. That's closer to what it's going to be for 2025. All right. There's a motion on the table. I make a motion to withdraw my motion. Okay. Thank you, Miss Palmer.

Um, we have line 34, I'm sorry, page 34. Um, you know, it's just, uh, legal services. Uh, it doesn't really have a line number, right, Mrs. Palmary? On page 34, we have three lines, 028, 29, and 11. It's not like broken down like that Excel kind of look. That's why I'm just making sure everybody realizes that this is the same sub account thing that we're dealing with. It's on page 33. Yep. 30 34. No, no, but if you look at 33, it's the same. The spreadsheets on 33 for 34.

So on page 33, uh sub account 028. I make a motion to reduce that to 300,000 and that is from the 405,000. Mry, that is for what? That is for our legal services for um our town attorney. And how much? Yeah. And in reviewing the invoices every single month, it appears that there's a lot of over billing in my opinion uh and unnecessary input from our town attorney that we can reduce a$35 a month invoice to $25 a month. Make your motion. My motion is to reduce the 405 to 300K. Is there a second? Motion fails.

Um on uh sub account 029, same page. Uh I'm sorry. Um sub account 110 and that is uh that's for other fees. and it just says like special prosecutor fees and fees associated with special counsel services and conflicts counsel. Um so I I make a motion to reduce that 25,000 to um 20,000. Is there a second? Is there any pending litigation?

Motion fails. Moving on. Um, it goes right into engineering, but we're That's not That's all part of tab one.

Oh, it is. Okay. I was just so on. Um on uh tab, I'm sorry, page 36. I'm I'm sorry. Page 35. No, they're the same. They're the same, right? Yeah. Okay.

Uh I just don't see uh um provisions for salary adjustments uh of the 15,000. Uh for transparency, is is that for one position or multiple positions? For one. For one. I I'm I make a provisional salary adjustment motion to remove the $15,000. Is that part of the contracts contractual obligations? Okay. Now, yes. Yeah, it's something relevant. Sure. Well, it's her it's her department. Just come up. No, no, come up. So, so you speak in the microphone. Real quick, council president. I know uh myself and I think maybe one or two other people. Can we take a twominut bathroom break as after this one is Okay.

After this after this quick. Okay. Thank you. Yes. I realize the salary provision. Can you identify yourself, please? I'm sorry. Yes. Allison Paranti, municipal engineer here. Um salary provision of 15,000 is for a staff member within the engineering department. Um due to increased certifications, uh title change, increased duties um and to be commen that's addressing a person's position and and is that a rice violation there? She did not mention a position. So you're understanding that that's the that's the triggering mechanism is the name of the person. Mr. Kelly, I understand you have legal opinion. It is not. We want consistency. I'm sorry, Mrs. Fonte. That's it. That's it.

Okay. And Mrs. Fonte, are these increase in certifications and everything else required for the position? Required um is it is it the job description? Is it required? Above and beyond, but it's not required though. No. Okay. Do you have a motion to eliminate it? He said I I'm going to resend my motion. Okay. Uh on that uh individual. Thank you, Mr. Fonte. Two minute break. I don't He still has two three P guys. He pages to go. All right. I just want to finish up.

Yeah, sure. I'm sorry, guys. No, that's it. Okay. Um we are going to take a fivem minute break. We'll be back at 11:05 at which point the council vice president will have his turn. Hey Joe. Mic is on.

Mr. Knoff Mr. Ardi.

Thank you, Joe. Okay. Thank you. Um, council president, before we get back into it, right, that last exchange was exactly that's productive, right? Going through making recommendations, Miss Pal or whoever can answer questions. That's that's perfect. So, we're we're pleased with the process we just went through and we appreciate that. Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, yeah. Yeah, they're not. Yeah, I'm sorry. The uh

the the open to the public portion has passed. So, any questions that you have would be directed to uh Councilman Roy. Mr. Mortion, can I ask a question just with that? Next, the next conference meeting is the 24th. Yes. Mr. Mr. Morrison, just a real quick question. Okay, I'm with Mrs. Roy said and it's a um at at any time I don't I don't know does anything bar the council for opening to the public again. Uh you know what I could find out? I don't know. I don't know. Well, under Mary and I will talk directly. The only reason why I say that is because the people of the public that are here just like Mrs. Roy described her friend or people in her her ward

um now they're getting some information. They're they're they're getting some information now. Maybe now they would like to ask some questions. I I appreciate you advocating, but the uh right now we will not be doing that. Sorry members of the public. Mr. Kelly, it's not necessary. Neither's your response. John, my turn. We good. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, John. Thank you. Really? Thank you. Thank you for allowing me. Appreciate it. Oh, God.

Thank you, Council President. You're welcome. page uh page three four uh sub account 29 contracted services. Um you I sent an email and um we had not used this line to the full ability to do it properly. We probably need to budget approximately $60,000 for that. um pay tree line 29 and um I know a lot of our department heads are doing an excellent job on their own with this. I'd like to make a motion to reduce that from $20,000 to $5,000 for

line item 29 page. I second that. Wait, Miss uh Homeri, that is for grant writer services. So that makes us money. Depends if we get it. Yeah. I mean, you know, we we are successful. I I'm proud to say that we're successful when we apply for grants. Um, a grant writer could um possibly find us additional grant monies in moving forward, but we Okay, I think I don't want to cut you off. That explains it. Mr. Palmer, are you confident that we have employees that can write Kelly? It's not There's a motion on the table and the motion from 20,000 to 5,000. Page three, line 29 from 20,000 to 5,000. I second Mr. Kelly did. He did.

Yeah. Yeah. No. Go ahead and take the role, please. Council member Salberg, no. Council member Votovich, no. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sack, yes. Council President Morrison, no. That is five yeses, four nos. Motion does not pass. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. It was five yeses to lower. I'm sorry. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Five to lower, six to raise. Like you said originally in your introduction. Five to lower, six. Six to raise. Five to Yeah, we reduced it by $15,000.

Okay. Okay. Page uh nine. I can make a motion to move as salaries in that tab back to the 2025 approved salaries saving $3,119.96. Second. I'm sorry. And that's for M. Mayor the whole tab.

No, no, no. I understand. I'm just saying is it what is it for? For council salaries. Council and mayor salaries. Mayor salaries. All right. And the motion is to go from the 2026 proposed to the 2020 whatever was in 2025 for a difference of 3,000ish. Mr. Morrison, how does that how does that affect the contribution to the volunteer fire department? Goes back go back to whatever. So you in doing so we would be reducing the contribution to the fire department. Yes. Okay. Hang on. I'm sorry. There is a motion on the table just for transparency. Mrs. uh what did you say? That's his portion. Are we is the motion to um to maintain the 2025

maintain the 25 but 2026 has a reduction for the fire, you know, has an offset for the fire department. Are we leaving that alone? That that would go to the 9,54813. So it would be reduced. Yeah. The whole thing we're the whole tab basically tab is going from 103 to 97 as we speak. So we're reducing $6,000 already. So we're reducing all the council salaries of the mayor to salaries.

All right. So just to be clear, your motion is to eliminate the 2026 proposed, stay at the 2025, correct? And reduce the volunteer. This is just this is just salaries. There's a motion on the table. You have to be explaining. Is there a second? No, no, we're we are reducing if by approving Yeah, this is Mr. Sack's motion. Yes, we will be reducing the contribution to the volunteer fire department. We need a second. We need a second. A second. Okay. She already Susan second or Susan seconded it. Come on. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg. Yes. Council member Voytovich. Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freay.

Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes. Yes. Council member Kelly. Abstain. Council pres Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Marson. Yes. Eight yeses. One abstension. Motion carries. Council President, I have a motion. I'm sorry, one second. Do we just What was the total you have on that? Roughly $3,19.96. That's not roughly. I am actually, if you didn't know, I am a quite a numbers nerd. There you go. Thanks. Um

I have I have a motion motion. I have a motion to uh increase the contribution to the volunteer fire department back to the original amount of $9,835 for uh all six of those fire departments. Can we do that? Sure, you can least will do the math. I'll figure out what that amount is, right? Hang on. Give me Give me one second, guys. Where's it coming from? Wait, wait. It It comes from Mr. Kelly. But how's it going to come from Mr. Kelly? Because he doesn't have it to give. Yes, exactly. But it comes from that that entire uh then the motion to bring your salary back up and fire department contributions. So theirs really wouldn't go down. It would just stay the same as it is now. I'm sorry. There it wouldn't go down. It would stay as it is. No, it would stay as it is now because

the motion that Mr. Sacket just had in favor um it reduced the money to go to the fire department. Well, no. Yeah. It it it doesn't raise it, but it leaves it the same. Yeah, it doesn't reduce it. How much money would How much money would be going to the fire department now? 9835 salaries for council members was 9548. So 9548 would be going to 9835. So we' just be reducing the fire department $300. And and my question was 300 bucks. Could it provide something for the fire department to save a life or help somebody? So when we get to the fire department budget, we can add in $287 if you want to make a note for that one. All right. Good discussion there. My motion.

Yeah, it's still on the floor. Yeah, but I don't know if you could do that. I made a motion. You can just made up. No, no, but legally, I don't think you can because then he's voting to give an increase. When we get to the fire department, my suggestion would be to make a motion to increase the difference in that department's budget because if there was just a motion to maintain it, we then can't negate that motion by increasing it. Right. And there's no place to pull it from, right? It just you can't generate to minimize the confusion, I'll re reend my motion. I I I understand the intent and I think it's good. I get it. I just don't think That's okay, Mr. Mr. Mor. Accounting wise,

uh go ahead. Page uh page 30, make a motion to for the provision for salary adjustments to lower from 5,000 to $2,500. Is any of that contractual, Miss Pomeir? Not. Okay. Uh is there a second? Cler, please take the role. I'm sorry. What was the motion in Mr. Fro 2500? Half. Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Votovich. Yes. Council member Freellander. Yes. Council member Roya. Yes. Council member Freay. Yes. Council member Quinn.

Yes. Council member Kelly. These employees are already underpaid. Uh, no. Council Vice President Sack. Yes. Well, some are in your eyes and some are. Please don't make a comment. Just vote yes or no. Yeah. You're all over the place. Just vote yes or no. Council President Morrison. Yes. That's eight yeses, one no. Motion carries. It's 35. This is this the one that was discussed prior when I had to run to the bathroom.

I apologize for that. Um could the engineer come back up and please explain one more time. I apologize for that. Quickly, the 15,000 um provision there. Yes. Again, Allison Paranti, municipal engineer. This is for uh to compensate individual within the engineering department for increased certifications, title change, um increased duties, um and to be on par with other municipalities. Nothing contractual. No. Okay. Mr. uh Saka too. This is not Mr. Kelly, you're not recognized. It's his time. Can I miss something that you

Mr. Kelly, you're not recognized. It's not your time. I'm good. I'm going to make the motion anyway. I got it. I understand. It's not required though. Mr. Kelly understand that's why I brought it up. But just thank you for the clarification. I still will make the motion to lower from uh from 15,000 to make it to 5,000. 10,000 in savings. So that is okay. From 15 to what? I'm sorry. 15 to five. All right. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg. No. Council member Voytovich? No. Council member Freelander? Yes. Council member Roy.

Yes. Council member Freighey, no. Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, no. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison, no. It is six nos, three S's. Motion does not carry. That is that is everything. Thank you. Okay. I make a motion to approve tab one inclusive inclusive of all of the changes that were noted um and then including that in its entirety. Mr. Kelly had a second. Please take the role. Council member Salberg,

yes. Council member Boyovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison,

yes. Nine yeses. Uh motion carries. Um just as a housekeeping note, at 12:00 we will be breaking for lunch for 30 minutes, just so you guys know. Um okay, moving on to tab two, which is planning board, uh zoning board of adjustment, and those two sections. We will open it up to Councilman Sberg. No question. Uh Marson, can Mrs. Fonte come up since she's the budget preparer for that? If there's questions, we will call her up. Um Councilman Vovich, no, I don't have any right now. Uh Councilman Freellander, no question.

Councilwoman Royick, no questions. Um Councilwoman Freed, no questions.

Councilman Quinn, no question. Excuse me, Councilman Kelly. I do, Miss Fonte. The hot seat is yours. Go ahead. Yeah, I'm just uh just getting my my everything indexed here, so rapid fire. Um, Mrs. Fonte, the legal advertisements, page 43 of 021. Um, we have a new requirement through the governor as of March 1st. We don't have to advertise through newspapers. Is this dealing with those legal advertisements and requirements of uh notice to the public?

Yes. However, a portion of this uh more than half is related to the reorg advert the actions advertise the reorg. Okay. So if half of it's done then basically we we can reduce it by 50%. So I would make a motion. You want to wait until the end of all the questions? Um ask your questions and then we'll make um you know what I'm sorry. No wait. No. If it's for that section then go ahead and make a motion.

I do want to say that we don't have legal opinion from our board uh professionals, our board attorneys yet um on removing I'm posting everything virtually. So we have a notice in our budget from administration that identifies that March 1st of 2026. It is not a requirement anymore. So why would that be different with the local finance notice that we received from the league in addition to what the administration put in there versus this? How is that any different? It could it could be okay. Okay. Um but by the time when this was prepared and in the beginning of the year when was this prepared? In November and then charges were were taken out. So before the provisions were set forth by the governor.

So now that we know that the provisions are in place, I would make a motion to uh reduce uh 021 on page 43 from 2200 to a,000. Is there a second? Motion doesn't pass on on overtime. same page. Uh 47.

Um we've we've uh in the last couple of years, we've only had uh less than $1,300 in overtime. Uh what would what would create overtime for page 47? 47. Yeah. And that would be 014 uh sub account planning board or board of adjustment board zoning page 47 uh 14 is overtime. Okay. Do you have that in front of you? What? I know what line item you're talking about. Um as far as overtime because the the other than the attorney who who are there salaries in involved with that in addition? That's the recording and uh it's a what?

Um it's the person taking minutes. Yes. I don't want to walk. They get paid over time. And that's not part of their their their job, I guess. No. Okay. So, it's in addition to that. Um as far as the increase is is there a reason why that you're asking for um Yeah. to say 2000. No, I mean we you're you're asking from December 31 what we expended which was $1,200. You're looking for $2,000 and before that it was only $1,000 uh in 2024. What creates the the overtime like long board meetings or

Yes. Yes. Sorry. The length of the B it's on average it's budgeted on average the number of meetings per year the average uh time per meeting we have two board of adjustment meetings per month so that is an average budget predicted if we have less meetings or they run shorter then we fall below that okay so I'd make a a motion to reduce the overtime uh to 1250 from 2000 page 47 line 14 right correct thank you okay is there a Second. Okay. Motion fails. That's all I have on that. Council vice president. I have nothing. Thank you.

I do not. Um I make a motion to pass tab two. Second as discussed. Cler, please take the role. Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Votovich. Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freeday, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison, yes. It's nine yeses. Uh motion carries. Uh moving on to tab three, which is the state uniform construction code. Uh we're going to open up to Councilman Sber. Um Councilman Votovich.

No questions at this time. Um Council Member Freelander. No. Uh, Councilwoman Royick. No. Councilwoman Freed, no questions. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Quinn, no question. Uh, Councilman Kelly. So on um on page 50 uh we have a change of position um as of 7123 and the salary of that is $59,792 and that's a full-time position. Would that be correct? That's correct.

That is correct. Um, and then if we go down, uh, I see, uh, uh, specific position D, which is the second to the last, just above the vacant, um, is a salary of $52,75. Please don't discuss individuals. I didn't name anybody. You Well, you declared. So, um, there's a $7,000 difference between a part-time position and a full-time position for the same position. Right. Is there a reason why the full-time employee

makes only $7,000 more than the part-time employee of 21 hours a week? I don't know if we can discuss that. That's really under the perview. Again, we didn't mention anybody's names. We're just in the budget. We're I would just say full-time employees also get benefits. versus part-time employees that don't I can say that.

Yeah, you can that. So, they they they so we reward employees for not taking part-time employees because they're not entitled to benefits off the bat. So, we reward them with a a better hourly rate. It it's also based on uh the individual's qualifications. Oh yeah. And that's something that we have in our policy procedure that we we base it on the qualifications that I mean well there's a salary range. There has to be a minimum qualification for the position,

right? And is there anything required other than a a certificate maybe or I just to me it to me the optics is that a full-time employee is close to the part-time employee salary and I I just don't see the justification of that. I think it's I I understand the point but it's not really something we discuss. Again the salaries are at the discretion of administration. Now, you can vote yes or no, but we can't discuss pay rates, um, things like that. Um, yeah, but we can't. These are salaries that are noted in here. No different than the salary adjustments that we're removing or

Well, provisional salary adjustments don't relegate to one specific person. Now, there is a provision in here for salary adjustments. You can certainly make a motion on that line, but we really shouldn't be discussing the performance certifications of any individual person. Um, whether they are noted by name or not. Again, that part the salary. I'm sorry.

No, no, I understand what you're saying. But that part is the responsibility and under the direction of administration. Our power lies in the ability for that section to vote yes or no. Our power also lies in the ability to adjust um overtime and provisions for salary adjustments. M Mr. Morrison under NJSA 4069A 36 it's very clear in that statute that we do the settings of the salaries as account again we're the pur strings so regardless of what the administration wants to do we still at the end of the day have to vote which we're doing today right to approve salaries salary adjustments over all those types of things like I'm not looking at an individual I'm looking at the numbers right now that don't have a name

no no I understand so the $59,000 I I I don't have a name on that particular portion of it and I'm just asking asking why is there should we increase that full-time employees salary? So, but that would be

I could just So, here's all I'll say. Um, Mrs. Ferrante has a good grasp on her department and the people underneath her and their compensation levels and I trust her that if she feels that these compensation levels um adequately meet the needs and satisfy those employees, that's what's on our budget. And if she wanted somebody to have more or less, she would have made a recommendation for that. And if certainly as council president said if anybody wants to make a motion to reduce anybody's salary or a position salary or increase spec could certainly do it but no they can't.

Oh okay. So whatever. Um but that's that's the position you know we have is that you know these these salaries are are you know meet the needs of her department. Right now indirectly Mr. Kelly, if you wish to do that, like let's say increase or decrease, I would my suggestion would be to handle that under the line for provision for excuse me for salary adjustment. So if you feel they should get five, then you can adjust that up.

Yeah, but you know what? I I don't believe that the a council member can direct the salary adjustment for one specific line. It would still be up to the the mayor. So, if I made an adjustment request and and and I got the support of the council to do so, I believe if the mayor says, well, I still don't feel comfortable to give that increase to that individual, right?

He has every right to make that decision. So, therefore, the motion would be only relying on the mayor. I would want to know and we this we can't do. I would like to have a discussion, which we can't have because they're not riceed, confirmation from the mayor that yeah, you know what, I could apply x amount of dollars to that employee for an increase, but because of because of Rice on that one, we can't. So, I don't think that would work. Well, what you could do as an option is you could make a motion for an increase to the salary adjustments, right? Whether at that point we would have to call at a different time. We would call for a closed session. The rice notice could be given to that person so they would have the option to attend or not attend. like we could still have a discussion um in close session again. We could race them and it would be their option of whether they wanted to attend or not and then at that point um we can make our thoughts known to the mayor. But keep in mind quite frankly that's what these guys get paid for. It would still be up to his discretion but you would at least be giving him the option to do so.

Right. Okay. And you know, council president, you hit a really good point because that was originally what my intent was for the rice notice request on the 6th of uh March um which unfortunately wasn't met. But um if you just give me one second to look at one one area uh and I apologize and thank you for the time, council president. No, no, you're Yeah, this is a healthy.

So in our um in our ordinance uh uh 20 25-05 and it's um you know various officials and contractual employees. We have you know a maximum salary and for a zoning officer we have a maximum of $80,000 uh for that which is extremely low for that full-time zoning officer that's noted in the budget. Again, not naming names. Um so if we were to increase that uh amount um we just would have to be under that salary maximum. Is that correct Mrs. Paul Mary?

To increase that 45 to another number uh the 59792 to another number to a higher number. Um, but again, see the problem I'm having with this is if you're increasing any of these lines, it's still not dictating that the mayor give it to who you are specifically asking. I understand. I understand. So, so you could just simply make a motion. He can't make a motion on the individual. It would have to be handled.

No, I would say no, I know that would increase the salary the the salaries by whatever number you want it to be. Okay. But even with that, you vote on it and just say it passes. It's not going to necessarily give it to the guarantee to Yeah. No, no, I understand. I said that before. So my next question just following that Mrs. Fonte the the 4,500 in provisional salary adjustments. Is that for multiple employees or just one employee? One employee. Fulltimes part time. Full time. This seems like it's a gamble because you can't tell me who. Well, just No, I understand. But make a motion if you're if you're going to make the motion.

Is it for a construction? I he can't. I would just again make the statement that I feel Mrs. Ferrante feels that this budget that she's submitting for salaries properly compensates um will allow her to properly compensate this department and will satisfy um the members of this department and and each year the salaries of all uh my staff are reviewed against other municipalities and against other fellow um colleagues within the township. So they are assessed. There is a plan. There'll be um requests for salary provisions in front of next year. But

yeah, but the the salary adjustments that we have, it's an addition again to the the 3% increase onto their So there again, some employees go above and beyond and we want to show our appreciation. I think all our employees are phenomenal and I just don't think that their salary equally of increases other than selective amongst uh for whatever reason. So that's a tough one. Um page 51. Do you want to make motion on that? Because I would support you on that for what it's worth. I'm support me in what way, Mr. Morrison? If you were to increase the uh provision for salary adjustments.

I happen to agree with you. I don't have a guarantee and I'm concerned I'm concerned on the past practices of those who have been selected of uh salary adjustments. Fair enough. I just want to put a

Yeah, that's that's a tough one. If I had a guarantee of uh of a particular um position that I see uh and I hear from the public brag about and how great this person is and that again not naming names uh just uh fair enough. uh 51 um 240. We've had multiple conversations on this in the past. Mrs. FR I mean Mrs. uh Paul Mary and maybe Mrs. Fonte can help out. Um when I was a council member, one thing was rentals. There are self-generating fund department, the construction department, right?

Yep. Um we did a pretty good jump in uh 2023 24 in regards to where we're at in 25 of a 5,000 increase for rental. Just to clarify, it's rental for what? Space. The building department operates kind of on its own to support the fees that we charge. We want to make sure our appropriations are offsetting those those the revenues. So we we charge the building department for the space that they take up in the building. Okay. So on a rental end of it, obviously I I I believe that there hasn't been an increase in the last four years. Uh we increased it in 2025 from 18,000 from 2024. Yeah.

And then to 23,000 in 2025. And what was it in um before 2023? It was probably 18 for several years. Um, so on on the uh rental uh facility, right, we we've been doing really well with permits and and everything coming in from developers, contractors, and um and individuals themselves. We Yep. Yeah. At the moment, yes, we're on par. The revenues are on par and consistent from last year's, right? uh can't predict the future, but you mentioned some um additional uh commercial and industrial that we will be seeing and we will be onboarding

the donut place that we were talking about is a huge amount that's coming in and stuff like that. So, I would make a motion to increase the um facility rental because it's gener generating revenue. Um they would be paying their share for using our office space, their self-unding and licensed independently. It's again understanding and transparency. Um, I move to raise that from 23,000 to 26,000. I'll second that. Thank you. Cler, please take the role. Council member Sberg, yes. Council member Votovich, no. Council member Freelander, no. Council member Roy, no. Council member Freed, no. No.

Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, yes. Council, uh, Vice President, second, no. Council President Morrison, yes. Uh, it is six nos, three S's. Motion does not carry.

I don't have any more, Council President. Okay. Council Vice President, I have nothing.

Okay. um pages 49 and 50. In in budgets past, I have brought up a concern about our um code enforcement um inspectors in that I I want to make sure that we have ample coverage, right? So, if we're going to be if there's going to be basically new business and things coming into town, um people as they hopefully start to recover, you know, from like the the many or the increase in uh interest rates and things like that, you know, I I want to make sure that if people start making adjustments in construction to their home, businesses are coming into town. I it's always been my opinion that we don't have enough put into zoning officials. We we have what? One one part-timer,

two time two in one. And then as far as like code enforcement, things like that, are we confident that we have enough to handle the volume of what we have now and anticipated in 2026?

Thank you, Council President. Um we uh thank you for acknowledging that that draw on this department. Um zoning um you know you could ramp that up or ramp that down. Um zoning is is you know it's dependent on uh you know the clientele and um whether or not uh you know people maintain their properties do work without a permit. Um we have a lot of soil disturbance. um a lot of people coming into the township especially on the northern end looking to um deposit soil illegally and then that takes a lot of time a lot of resources from this department. What about weekend coverage

and weekend cover um so we could always use the additional hours the additional resources we do currently with your support in past years we have up the out of regular office hours to catch individuals either in the evening or on the weekend. Is that overtime? No, that's you approved a line item. Okay, so that is one of the part- timerrs. Okay. Um, so yes, the long winded answer, yes, additional resources for code enforcement would be appreciated, which both keeps us safe and could possibly generate revenue through permits and as such. Okay, Mr. M, real quick, just what you said with the soil disturbance, is that zoning or is that engineering?

It'd be code enforcement both. Uh, falls within chapter 54, which is land use. Um, often engineers go out, the engineering department goes out because technically we speak about volume and area whatnot. Okay. But either individual is uh

Okay. Could I just ask it like because this might generate thought process on any um on any motion that's about to be made like what would you foresee if additional funds uh were provided to a position for another full-time position or additional part-time positions from a zoning or enforcement perspective? Where what would you see us doing with additional full-time people or additional part-time people? Is it just if there's additional needs or do we have a need now that this would help with? Um it definitely be an additional part-time Yeah. individual um

I don't I shoot myself in the foot. I believe we do have a a line item um from a from a loss of an employee um you know u fulfilling that would fulfill the um need the need the need. Okay. So, Miss Palm Mary, should I make a motion? Obviously, we can't determine the salary right right now. So, is it possible to do like a not to exceed like how would I handle I'm going to make a motion for another part-time in addition to the one that is still open. Yeah. I mean, it's the administration can fill it at any time if they wish because it's already there. Vacant already there. So I don't know may not

I don't see but do we have because there is nothing in the salary line for that. So that's why I ask. So if you look at it it's the item that's highlighted in yellow on page 50. That's a keyboard clerk. Yeah. But there there's an open position if you wanted to fill it for a zoning officer or some other position. So we've had that for a couple of years. How come we've not filled it? Oh no. No. It was I brought it up last year. that was filled. Yeah, that that's Yeah, that's the one part time. So, we do have the ability right now as it's written in a budget to bring on another part and it wouldn't be creating another position. Okay.

The position is still there, still in the budget. We just I'd like to see that terming it uh another another title. Um and it it would be ideal to have eight hours um no benefits, right? Right. and a uh for budgeting purposes uh $45 an hour. Okay, we'll work through it. I just Oh, okay. It It's always been my feeling that we need to stay safe. Okay. Uh that being said, I make a motion to pass three. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Sberg, yes. Council member Voytovich, yes. Council member Freelander,

yes. Council member Roya, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Marson, yes. It's nine yeses. Motion carries. Um, understanding that we have about 15 minutes before we break. I don't want to start any like

I don't want to start like police, fire, or uh um wreck because I'm sure that's going to take a while. So I'm going to knock out some of the what I hope are some of the smaller tabs. So let's go with tab 11 which is acuvac. Can you just give a your elevator speech on what ACUAC is? Um so acu are um people have you know built up their time their vacation their um sick and personal time when they retire or resign depending on when they were hired some of these people are entitled to that time paid when they when they leave. Okay.

So I take what um I make a provision in this budget to put into our ACUAC trust and that's where those um hours are paid out of. So, ACUAC is accumulated accumulated vacation sick personal time. Okay. Um All right. So, let's go. Councilman Sber. Yeah. So, then this is all pretty much though preset and we we pretty much understand what we're going to be paying out this year based on

pretty much. Also, people um will request to buy back time if they're eligible for it. So based on what those requests were submitted to me back in November, November 1st, they have to hand them in by and then we make those um payments to those people by I think it's within 90 days after we adopt this year's budget. So some time in the summer, those payouts will be paid out to those people and charged to this line. Okay. It's obviously a wild deviation from some of the payouts in the past, but there's less people requesting because of um yeah, less time being accumulated.

I'm good with that. Um, Councilman Wovich, no question. Councilman Freellander, you answer questions because it's a big drop, right? Correct. Yeah. Councilwoman Wright. Uh, Councilwoman Freigh, no questions. Uh, Councilman Quinn, no question. Councilman Kelly,

Mrs. Palm area on the uh accumulated sick and vacation time. We've we've had requested um all that amount for $300,000 and expended. Matter of fact, it was expended $600,000. Is there a uh a particular statute that's in place that does not allow us to pay over an x amount amount of this is all contractual based on their collective bargaining agreements. The old contracts I guess the contracts. Okay. Yeah. So it has nothing to do with with the statutory requirements of X amount a maximum amount of payout. No upon leave. Not not for this leap. Not for this line.

Okay. Um the next question I have is uh U 161 on um sub account O2 provisions for salary adjustments. Um 23 240 um will be expended through 25 nothing even though we adopted 2380. What is the reason that you're requesting and recommending 10,000? Again, this is to give the mayor flexibility if something were to come up during the course of the year that is not already in one of these departments lines.

Uh I make a motion to remove reduce uh 002 to zero. From what to what? From 10,000 to what? Zero. Oh, I'm sorry. Um do we have a second? All right. Motion fails. No, you're not up. Not yet. What? It's not your turn. It's not your turn. It's too late. Um, go ahead, Mr. Kelly. Uh, I think that's it. That's There's There's nothing else on it. Uh, Council Vice President, um,

I was with you. I want to make the motion to reduce from 10,000 to 5,000. I second that. Okay. No more of this. Me too. I was going to do the same thing. You seconded it. I did. You seconded it. Okay. Wait. Uh, it's to reduce the provision from 10 to five. And and Mrs. Pomeary, these these provisional salary adjustments, they're still getting 3% of an increase to their salaries, right? Beyond Well, it again, it's either contractual for their CBA or 3% if you're not represented. Okay. Uh, clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Votovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy,

yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Marson, uh, yes. It's nine yeses. Motion carries. Uh, let's move on to tab 13. Yeah, I'm sorry. Make a motion. Thank you. Second to approve tab 11 in it entirely, including the adjustment. Second. Cler, please take the Council Member Salberg. Yes. Council member Voytovich? Yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roya, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes.

Council President Marson, yes. Nine yeses. Motion carries. Um, let's move on to tab 13. On a side note, um, somebody just let me know when the, uh, 10 more minutes. Well, if it comes early, we'll break a couple minutes early. Council Morrison, I make a motion just to approve uh, tab 13. Yeah, I have a question. I'm sorry. Um, so yeah, on page 272, just considering the uh, but that's not tab 1374. 174. It's one line item. Sorry. All right.

There you good. Um, instead of running through, does anybody have any discussion on this? All right. There's a motion for Mr. Kelly to approve it. I second it. Please take the role. Council member Salberg. Yes. Council member Voytovich? Yes. Council member Freelander? Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison, yes. That's nine yeses. Section uh motion passes. Uh let's jump to section 15. Um tax appeals pending and reassessments. 14 or 15. Council, that's 15.

15 page 181. Um, let's start with Councilman Sberg. I make a motion to just pass this. Hang on a second. Let me just I No, no, hang on. I do want to open up to everybody if there's any discussion. I do have a question. Go ahead. Thank you. So, this year we have $100,000 set aside for a tax-free assessment services. Just want you know um this is the last year of our contract for the reassessment program. Correct. Correct. So we'll be it's this is the last year 2026 for appeals in 2027.

Thank you. Um what are what are our tenative plans moving forward with the reassessment program? I'm not going to hold you to it, but what are the tenative plans? I I I think we want to um after we fulfill a contract, put a pause on it and evaluate, you know, the program and and what we're going to do next and we'd certainly look for input um from the council. Um but I think um we're going to put a pause on it for a short amount of time. Merit's work.

We think we think it's so if you want to look at from a perspective of tax appeals, it's worked phenomenally. I think the goal of it, right, is to make sure that everybody is paying their fair share of taxes and and I think it's worked that well, but we, you know, we want to take a step back maybe and just look at it, but we're not committing to not doing it or not, you know, or not or doing it. So, we just got to look at it and I think we'll have we'll have discussion about it. So, we're pretty caught up now. We were quite behind and uh with this program, we've been caught up. It's it's crazy when you look at other towns. No, I know some aren't doing it 10 years. Do you know, just question, you may not know, looking at Morris County,

do you know what the average towns are doing as far as the tax reassessment? Are they doing two, three, five, 10? It's all over. All over. But I think Mars County is probably a little bit more proactive than others. Yeah, you know, I know there were many in like Essex County, they like you said, they hadn't been putting through this program in 10, 15 years and then they get ordered by the county to do that. So, um, by doing what we're doing, we we physically inspect a quarter of the town every year, even though everyone's reassessed every year, a quarter are are inspected, we've been able to maintain and keep our our homes valued at market value. Sure. Thank you. Okay. So, um I'm sorry.

This contract for reassessment that's already signed. I mean, if we cancel this reassessment right now, wouldn't we be able to do that? I think it's a four-year contract. So, we can't adjust it. So, we can't adjust that. All right. That's why I think Council Kelly said maybe we can lead off with that next time.

Um and again, it's it's just for for my two cents. This is something I feel very strongly about. I mean, realize it or not, this past Tuesday was six years that CO started. Six years ago on Tuesday we went into lockdown. Um I think that one of the unintended side effects of that was greatly increased real estate cost. We have an expert in the back. Nod your head. Um and I think that needs to level out. I think that the tax assessments are again my non-professional opinion. I think the tax assessments are maybe a little out of control. So, I do appreciate uh I do appreciate what you're saying and that we're going to take a step back. Um, with that being said and understood that it's not uh we cannot adjust it, I make a motion to pass section.

I already have a motion on I already have a motion. Do you have one? Yeah. Was there a second? I'll second it. Second. Oh, me. Please take the role. Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Vtovich. Yes. Council member Freellander. Yes. Council member Roya, yes. Council member Freighey, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison, uh, yes. Sorry, it's Mr. Sber's. Uh, nine yeses, section passes. Uh, we are close enough at this point. We are going Is the food here?

Okay. We are going to break for lunch. Um, we will go 33 minutes and we will start back up at 12:30. And that's it. Thanks. Thank you.

Um, thank you everybody. Uh, we are going to go to, uh, section five, police department. Do we need to make a motion to open back up to the meeting? We were done. Okay. No, no, no. That's I wanted to finish it up so we didn't have to Okay. What was the motion? Five, right? I don't know. I didn't section. What number was it? Five. You're right.

Uh five includes uh uh police, fire, public works. Um obviously going to be one of our uh I'm sorry, not public works. Uh police and fire. Um okay. Um, just as a note, I I appreciate and I think we've uh gotten down to a lot of really good questions and and uh some good information. So, uh I just hope to continue that. Um we are going to open it up to Councilman Alberg. You're going

right to make a motion. Hang on just what what is it for? For what? Can you page 95 microphone closer mouth? There we go. There we go. Thank you. Yeah. So, page 95 subsection 021 professional services. I see a requested amount of 38,440 but recommended is 42,184. Just wondering if there are any specific reasons for the increase. Judge made a request to me. All right. Well, I would like to just make a motion um to approve the requested amount of 38,44.

Uh can we have discussion on that real quick? Mr. Sbert, just go ahead. Um Mr. Mayor, just maybe let me just get the motion seconded and then we'll Okay. You made he made a motion. I'm not second. No, I'm not second. No, I don't support it. Is there a second? All right. If not, feel free to bring it back.

Just in case just everybody has a better idea. And I think I went this before when I was talking to the court administrator and maybe the mayor could probably um jump on this, too. Um again, we're we're doing uh multiple courts. There's a an abundance of uh workload that comes through. We're being compensated in addition to those additional services. Um, again, we're not in the in the business of making money, but we're offsetting revenue for the cost of the court in doing so. So, originally when um the prosecutor was making the 36,000, he did not have those combined three courts in total. So, we have Mine Hill, we have Rockway Burrow, and of course, Rockway itself. And uh just interrupt, do you have a motion on this? Because if not, I'd rather wait your section. If you don't have a motion specifically, I just wait for your section. He he asked a question and um I just thought there would be a little bit more of a a definitive answer, but it's his time.

The motion didn't pass. The motion didn't pass. So, it's just kind of exactly what you said. I'm sorry. Exactly what you said. Thank you. So, okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm done. You're done. Um Councilman Bvich, nothing at this time. Uh Councilman Freellander, where's your mic? I thought you could hear me without it. I know. Now the shared services which we talk about what are we? Oh, it's just uh professional services which uh Councilman uh Kelly mentioned about shared services,

you know, and to justify the extra burden on our our but there is nowhere what do they do we usually receive from the other towns because I know it goes back it goes back into their municipal there's two contracts with burrow and right you voted on them many I don't remember the amount so that's that's what I'm saying I We voted on That's for Mine Hill. That's for Mine Hill. Yeah. The burrow. That was an increase of maybe 50,000. Yeah, it was. We increased mine hill significantly. I wasn't a council member at the time. Yeah.

So, so mine we increased significantly in the burrow I think is a very fair agreement for what we signed with them. Um I do not believe we'd hired additional staff since taking on the burrow. So, you know, again, this the way that so good deal. That's what I'm saying. So, we're in good shape as far as the sheds are. And that's what I was, you know, alluding to. That's what we were trying to work with a judge to make sure, you know, they're in a good place. And the same thing, Manny, would go for the public defender. Mr. Kelly, please. Please. I understand where you're coming from, but we go for the public defenders. Mr. Kelly, please. I'm just having a conversation with

I know, but it's not a conversation. And and and while I believe me, I while I certainly appreciate your your input, it's it's not vetted. It may not accept my input, please. But thank you. How about if I just end it? All right. Thank you. Uh, Councilwoman Roy. No. Uh, Councilwoman Freed, no questions. Uh, Councilman Quinn, no question. Uh, Councilman Kelly, I make a motion to approve uh, tab five its entirety. I'll second it.

No, no, no, no. Not everybody's had a chance to go through. There you go. I appreciate the uh I appreciate the uh the swiftness. I do have something. I'm sorry. That's okay. Sneak in a quick vote. Thank you, Peach. I just thought it was a I thought it was a mood issue. I know. You know, I wear I wear and I wear contacts like very like very like heavy contacts. I still need these like really there's no budget for glasses.

Exactly. Yeah. I'm sorry rambling. page. Uh just a question. Um 68 and um 71. And I did ask this in advance. I'm still a little confused. I apologize. Uh sub account 51 on page 68. And I know it's explained on 71. We have a purchase of four vehicles. Um 188490. Two are through the operating budget. Correct. and two are in the capital. Correct. Why is it listed with the same amount twice?

Each vehicle is for the same purchase, right? The same price. So I have two at X and two at X. Why can't we put in this one here? I paid 68 94,245 and then in the capital 94,245. The price two vehicles with outfitting 9 94245 per vehicle for four SUVs. Four patrol SUVs. Okay. So each vehicle is 90. Okay. That's why I'm asking that's where was Yeah. Okay. So each vehicle is $94,000. Fully equipped. Fully equipped.

Come with a sunroof and Okay. Okay. So each vehicle is 94,000. So that's why see that's why I was confused. I thought it was 188 total for four. Okay. So each one So this is for the 188490 is for two vehicles. Thank you. That was my only question. Okay. Um I have a couple questions on page 66. Did we I'm sure you did. I just want to confirm that we took into account, do we have any retirements coming up and then the open positions to fill them

uh on the the vacancy that you see listed there, that vacancy is currently in the hiring process to fill that vacancy and we're budget for that, right, Miss Palmer? Yes, that's what that yellow highlighted area is. That will be filled by that.

All right. In in the past, obviously, we the the police staff is something that we've spoken about at length. In the past, we have actually added uh police officers, and I understand this is the budget that you submitted. Are we confident that we have coverage now as far as um like sergeants and lieutenants as related to police officers? because I have heard again don't know whether it's valid or not that sometimes we can run short uh as far as like lieutenants and sergeants.

Well, we had currently uh in last year's budget increase uh that span of control with that additional sergeant. So, we have two sergeants per shift, right? So which is if you want to look at it half a week or four on four off, right? So half of the schedule now has two sergeants per shift. Okay. I I would put your department up against any other department, you know, in the county. I just want to make sure that we can maintain that. I appreciate that.

Okay. Um line 67, I'm sorry, page 67. All right, I take that back. Uh, page 68, line 25. We have we're buying a lot of cars, right? A lot of vehicles. Last year we bought some vehicles. This year we're buying what, four? But our vehicle maintenance budget is going up um by over 10,000 compared to what we spent in 2025. What do we anticipate

is going to be the cause of that? Well, again, in order to have that many vehicles, right? So, for for example, uh we have 20 vehicles that currently in the patrol division out of out of that uh they're split basically two to three shifts they have to operate and there's a lot of idle time. So the more vehicles you have, the more maintenance to keep them uh if you want to say the word but pursuit ready, right for that's valid,

right? So uh it's it's a little bit different than maybe maintenance we have on our own personal vehicles, right? A different schedule. We have uh actually an excellent uh in-house mechanic that maintains them, right? That provides me feedback with that information on basis. now to maintain our fleet. So, the money that's in that budget for maintenance, is that for internal costs or or vendor uh repairs or anything we need and anything it'd be a combination. So, we do use both parts we correct. And then the last question on the vehicles is obviously when we replace vehicles, oldest out, newest in,

right? So, if you want to talk a little bit about a life cycle of a vehicle, right? So, bringing in a vehicle, and again, it's not really like your personal vehicle. You go to a dealership, you purchase your vehicle, by the end of the day, you you you know, you're signing papers, you're walking out the front of the dealership, and your brand new vehicle. Our vehicles, uh, once we go through this process, it literally will take us 12 to 18 months to actually have that vehicle on the road, right?

So, even after this process, all of our current fleet continues to age. So, we have approximately and again approximately a five-year life cycle on the frontline vehicle. Uh, and then we have several things that we do with it from from that point. It may go from there to a school vehicle. It might go from there to a third party vehicle. It might go from there to a detective bureau. Got it. Right. Andor auction pending.

Um, okay. Page 69, line item 170, community policing. Uh we're asking for an increase of uh $2,500. Um but it's it'll be $5,000 over what we spent in 2025. What is that for? Well, again, so last year was the first time uh ever we brought on uh the Rockway Township Police Department Junior Police Academy. The Junior Police, right? Which was uh successful. I'm good in the community. So I think that was good. I'd look to in increase that really at no cost uh the participants. Um okay. And I Mr. Kelly, you can have the second when we do it. But I make a motion.

I was making a motion on that particular prosecutor thing. That's what I was doing. What prosecutor? We were talking about the prosecutor in the end of five for Mr. Sberg. That's what I was making a motion to approve. We didn't adjust it though. So there wouldn't be a motion. Yeah. No, that's just to close that that section. I I made an error as my motion that was there. You can make the motion. No, no, no, no. Okay. I make a motion to close tab 5 in its entirety. No, no, no, no, no. I have some I'm sorry. Wait a second. You're right. We haven't done fire. Yeah. Not the police. You're right. And I And there's some things that I wanted to ask because again for police. Yes. Go ahead. Well, if anybody else has anything first, I let them go because of my mistake I made before.

Yeah. Just real quick with the maintenance, the four cars that we're getting, we're not necessarily replacing the four radio cars, right? The other older cars, I mean, you might be able to use them for the school resource officers and all that, right? Is that correct? Correct. So that's why they increase it in the maintenance vehicles. It has kind of a natural progression based on the uh condition of the vehicle uh and the need. So, uh, currently we have a dynamic that will bring a vehicle from that frontline vehicle and it might go to, like I mentioned before, several different locations based on the need at that time. Thank you.

Your mic's not on. And then you have an auction right at the end. Are there any that are going to be wiped out of our complete system? Uh currently uh we have one or two waiting for uh for that scrape um auction. I have uh three vehicles slated for auction. Correct. Right. Uh, anything else police wise?

Do I? Yeah, I just I I wanted them to go before me. That's all. Okay. Uh, Chief, uh, again, thanks for what you do in in the great department that you run. Um, we have a vacancy uh from a promotion from uh patrol to sergeant and then you just mentioned before that you have a new recruit that that you believe is coming in and they'll be going through the academy. Yes.

Right. So there's a difference in salary from 135,876 when the departing patrol officer to sergeant and the new incoming academy level would be 50,000 uh well yes year end 50,000 40,000 for the academy. The only thing that I would say we're currently in that process uh and the intention is as we speak to bring in uh that academy as opposed to an IGT. Right. So that that would be the differentiation. Uh, I'm sorry. Intergovernmental transfer from a an experienced officer from another agency into our town. What are we current What are we currently looking at right now? We currently are in the process for the academy. The academy. So again, that would be a $50,000 entry on that

$50,000. Roughly $180,000 I mean $80,000 of a difference between the two salaries. Right. 80,000 favorable. I'm sorry. No, just to make clear. So you're pointing out that it's 80,000 favorable. Yeah. So, we'd be saving and that's the whole intent. Yeah. Yep. I I agree, council president. I appreciate that. Um and then we have on page 67, uh provisional salary adjustments, uh of $5,000. Um is it one recipient, two recipients? Is there uh No, that that again I have no recipient in mind other than the ability to do so.

Okay. Um just make my adjustment here. Um on page 68, chief uh sub account uh 014 015 overtime. So we've had um a lot of money that's been requested in the past. Um, and it looks like we haven't spent over $225,000 um, from these requests and expended through 2025. You're asking for $310,000 uh, from us only using 150 last year. Is there a reason why for the 100% increase from year before?

Well, again, the fact of the matter is obviously we're we're growing a department uh, and hopefully that does reduce some of that need. Uh, however, we cannot predict. So when we were talking earlier uh in this proceeding when you were referring to things that you know the anticipation or that snowstorm or that tropical storm where it costs us upfront dollars uh in order to provide for that you know that that's really more along the lines of why that remains in there at that can I tag on to that?

Yeah. for what we're asking in overtime, we could hire, you know, at the academy price, if you will, more officers, right? And I but I understand now there's a dynamic with coverage, right? Because you can't have them on all the time. Is do you think there is any room in there to reduce the potential overtime but increase our ranks? Like shift the line is what you're saying. Go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's more cops the better. I'm sorry, Kie.

Uh, well, to answer that question, I certainly have uh no problem whatsoever hiring officers, right? So, I would love to see uh, you know, as many officers as we can have serve in our community, you know, in terms of uh, again, just that that one dynamic of not being able to control what what may happen within within the 12 months. Can I can I ask another question?

Sure. Um, is it possible, Miss Palm Mary to, if there was a motion on the table to um I can't think of the word um to take some money provisionally like let's say we approve could we take the overtime budget, right? take half of it and put it into like a provisional even if it's provisional for the purposes of studying if we if it would make sense to hire one or two or three officers but if we don't use that that we can use it for overtime I suppose what's so in other words

no no but at least at least it's no offense 310 and reduce that to say 210 right hypothetically but then what happens If we exceed that 210. Yeah. And then what happens? You can always pull a reserve, can you? No. Well, because it's not just it's not just the officer, it's all the benefits. No, no, I get it. I just I'm asking the question. I'm trying to It's the math, you know? It's numbers. I'm trying to see if there's if we can adjust the numbers, but bring on another one or two police officers

because the state looks at this as one salary line, right? They don't they don't care that we have 50 officers and we have an overtime line. They just see it as salaries for the police department. So, I don't really need to make it unless we're just trying to track it internally where I make a third line that says provision for a future hire. So, let me say this. Could I make a motion to Well, just one more question if I may. Let let me ask this real quick. Just so you know, you're all running on my time. I'm not I'm just saying. But I'm not No, no, you've created But no, but I This is how I am considerate to allow everybody to speak. No, but you're creating some good points. Thank you.

So, could we could we make a motion to investigate or research or at least put out the possibility of a hire? Should and if we should hire, can we do like a resolution later to reduce one line item to increase another? I don't think we need a resolution. Well, we could do that. You could do a motion right here and I could adjust. This is just not Okay. Are you guys okay if I make a motion? Can we do it at the end of this? If we did increase the number of officers, throw off the ratios of sergeants we need and all that. That's a good question.

Well, well, again, you know, I'd be looking at span of control, right? So, as we increase that uh department, uh, right? So, right now, as as we stand, we have uh, you know, our our our department has four squads throughout it and we have shifts, you know, and I'm not gonna Yeah. Yeah. I would just say too right now chief you could like adding one or two officers won't necessarily directly correlate to lowering overtime no I get it right so I mean salary today is only 50 tomorrow it's

yeah they jump I get it I'm just asking the question yeah listen I don't do that for a living and you're not hiring any unexperienced older people right like me the again. Uh I refuse to answer that. Um but but but again, you know, you might have a different conversation. I'd love to have more officers to to put them out on on uh the streets. We, you know, then internally, you know, I'd be looking at spanning control based on some. Okay. Mr. President, can I just add something? Yeah, he's he's got something.

I you know, the $310,000 for overtime, right? I'm looking at it. Uh the officers now need to do conduct extra training, right? Police licensing, you got to send these officers. These are these are training sessions that's mandated by the state. So if that officer has to go to training, you got to fill it with overtime, right? That's every single officer that has to go through that training as mandated by the state of New Jersey. Right. Okay. So the overtime I see I mean I I would think you're anticipating that the the mandate mandated training is going to uh have some shortages and you got to fill that. Well, when it comes to taking that away and and filling it with uh adding another officer to the budget, just like uh Mrs. Pomeary said, this is not only going to be a $50,000 $50,000 addition to the budget because that office is going to have a top pay at 138, and then you got to contribute to the pension, which is three and a half%. Then you got to pay the health benefit, which was another $58,000 a year, whatever that is.

So that salary becomes $300,000 maybe. Right. I know a lot about police. Mr. Rotovich, do you have any experience to back that up? But is is that fairly accurate? That's a very fairly accurate description. Okay. Can I can I Well, if you guys want to finish your thoughts, just I I want you a motion, but yeah, before you do that, um uh you don't want to wait until we're completed through the tab. No, and you'll see in a second. Okay. So, uh, Chief, um, one thing that we have with the overtime, as, uh, Council Mega had mentioned about the training and everything else, hasn't that been taking place in 23, 24, and 25? Uh, yes. Training has.

So, how would the difference of what the training that we've already been uh accustomed to in those years prior? Why would that be different in 20 2026?

Well, for a couple of reasons, right? the mandatory training continually increases for officers. Uh also, you know, on aside from just simply that mandatory training increases, we also have uh within the last year, we've brought on eight officers that are that are new out of the academy, right? So they uh require even additional training, right, to help them navigate this very difficult career, right? So so that that adds to the training.

So what I understood from what you said before was only one vacancy that we're looking to hire. We don't know anything about uh any promotions in the future. um the example of maybe nine or 10 officers coming in through the academy and us paying through that and creating overtime, but you only mentioned one so far for this year and no indication of anybody retiring to somewhat come to the level of 100% increase. I mean, it's actually like 105% increase to this overtime amount. The other thing is you talk about bringing in additional police officers. Are you going to then uh increase the amount of officers on each shift? So instead of having four officers, a sergeant and a floating sergeant, are you going to have now five officers or are you going to increase the amount of districts? Because you could hire 10 police officers, you could hire 20 police officers. If you do not increase the amount of uh police officers in a district or in a town as a whole by increasing a district, how is that making any safer?

Well, first of all, we we have done that. All right. So, and again, I don't really want to get into a full discussion of tactical deployment of officers within the township, but yes, we we have increased our uh patrol division. All right. And we have also put officers out in their midships. All right. So, we have several different shifts available now uh that that add to the protection and the overlap of the township.

Okay. Um and on that same section on uh uh page 68 uh 077, cell phones, and everything is consistent, chief, from the cell phones that expended back in 2023 and even somewhat close to what you're asking now. Um any chance you're going to upgrade those phones? They're old, right? Correct. They they they are old. uh there's a reason why you don't want to uh upgrade those phones.

It was simply at at the moment the cost of upgrading all other phones, right? That additional cost uh and the two different platforms, right? So, uh currently what would it cost to upgrade the phones? It it really depends. So, most of the time you have have to get older generation phones and we try to get them really through at a minimal to to no cost if they're available. Uh it just really depends what's available at the time uh from work. So if we have an old phone, right? Like I'm a I'm a flip phone guy, right?

I'm I'm very limited. No internet on this whatsoever. When I'm thinking of the phones that you have for the police department that are extremely old and probably outdated because it's uh a device, right? We're talking about improving our computers and technology and everything else. If we're dealing with the police department and the fire department I consider equal as far as the importance of first responders, life-threatening things, all that, why wouldn't you want to improve the phone and technology by doing so? So maybe my thing would be same thing if we reduce some of the overtime expenses to then put into an investment of the devices to better assist the police officers um or dispatch the victims potentially. Um wouldn't that be a a coste effective move on a line item to update those old phones that we have? Uh again, this is not necessarily for the the update, but just obviously billing of the phones. Uh we're looking at quite a few different u technical improvements and we've already started.

I want to just stick on the phones though. I mean, as far as all the other technical improvements that you have, which are are definitely important obviously because it's a function of your police department. I'm still stuck on the phones because if there's service issues because of old technology up in the uh route 23 area because there is a section of 23s Rockaway or going over into the Wharton Dewey Road area where it's kind of the service is kind of poor uh up in Marcella Green Pond. if we have new technology um a quicker amount not having phones freeze um just having reception these are things that could potentially affect situation in a negative way without having a more up upto-date device like I'm your personal phone is it is an old phone or is it a new phone do you think it's probably a new phone right

uh I I would say it's a few generations old okay and you don't agree that updating um our phones would be better serving the public, the police department, and all other levels of first responders. And again, you know, it's not that I disagree with obviously having the latest and greatest, right? So, obviously, we can we can uh purchase all new phones, but those typically those phones aren't really in that type of service, right? I'll have two out, let's say, for for the sergeant, but all officers are, you know, on devices of the latest and greatest. But I I can certainly uh replace all all of the phones that we have, which is typically, you know, the detective staff.

Are there upgrades that are offered for the the phone service? Occasionally you can get some deals and try to get better deals that I mean, hell, I can go to T-Mobile, get a free upgrade now, right? Can I just piggy back off? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Jumping on that. These because, you know, we're talking about officers being patrolled and using these phones. These phones aren't used to communicate with dispatch, right? I would think these are phones used for on call when somebody's maybe on call detective because you just mentioned detectives. Is that what they're used for?

Typ typically uh the only out of those all the phones we're referring to would be a sergeant's phone uh calling back to most others would probably be more inter agency phone calls. Do they use the cell phones though for for all all reasons? Right. Nothing bars you don't have a policy and procedure or accreditation that this allows us to use a phone for other use. Again, no again I because we have problems for radios too with communication sometimes and a phone can be I totally agree with with cell phones. I I think we're all on the same page. Is there Do you want to make a motion? You know what, Council President? I don't know how I would make a motion to increase that amount. If I could have it validated, it would go to upgrading the phones.

Can I make a suggestion? Sure. Because I'm going to do something. What else? Um, I'm going to come back to it, but basically what my motion and maybe you could do the same thing as far as like reducing overtime for the purposes of hiring additional staff. It's almost this. It's almost like a symbolic because we can't compel them to do it, right? So, we could pass a motion to direct the police department to maybe research what it would cost and then come back to the council. Now the the CFO doesn't need any approval to move that around. But either again it's more of like a symbolic resolution. We can't make them do it. Or since you don't need a resolution, just ask them to do.

Well, we can't under under AG guidelines, Chief. We we can't direct you. We can encourage you, but we can't make a motion to direct you to do anything. Just Well, if I if I might interject, simply put, buy cell phones. Not for nothing, Chief. We're trying to give you trying to help out the situation here. That's what I'm saying. I mean, has this ever come up? Has this ever come up before about the That's not what I'm telling you. I'm telling you. So, you know, obviously you're talking about you can't you can suggest you can increase. I'm telling you I'll buy cell phones. What would you think would be a a number to help you in upgrade to technology today of cell phones?

Right. That depending on the deal. But if we're if we're talking about uh uh you know sorry mayor talking about I'm sorry but you talking about you know it's a hard thing based on whatever the how many do we have 20 phones but but if you're talking about I would say we're talking about uh 12 at most phones but you could do it budget neutral by reducing the overtime. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I would I would I would make Well, I don't know where your motion's going, Council President, on

on 14 and 15 with overtime versus where my motion would go to uh cell phones for the reason of getting new phones. That's So, I don't know. I'd rather be on the same page with you on this one. Yours is more and I'm with you. Mine is more It's a much more substantial cost. So I think that's something we could probably take offline since we don't need a resolution to adjust it later. Yours is for physical equipment. But I'm But not through capital just how it would be through capital, right? No. Yeah. No. Yeah. Go ahead, Manny.

You go into AT&T, right? A lot of times you get it's just basic cell phone to do internal stuff rather than walkie-talkie. No, but it's departmental communication like if they need to contact an officer that's not working, he doesn't have a radio in his house. A radio doesn't take photographs. A radio doesn't come up with information instantaneous. The device is used not just saying, you know, hey, I'm on a telephone. They can go through and and track GP. I mean, there's so many things that the phone is with the technology today. smartphone. Yeah, I think we all the same page. Yeah, we're simply Sorry.

Listen, I think we're all on the same page, Chief. It's for good intention. Uh I I believe the older Samsung phones are older Samsung phones. They are. And uh I the only difference I wish I I wish I would follow my own advice. We had that technology also that was actually a uh uh like our tough books or or laptops. It was a a tough rated phone uh as opposed to a a retail phone. That that's that's really why it went down that road. I'll get you I'll get you an honor box for it.

Correct. My phone is actual Manny, we're all on the same page here. Mr. Morrison, if if you wish to do your motion because I have more to go through. I'd rather you address your motion. Mine's really symbolic and and they know how we feel. I mean, I think we're all for more police, but I can't, you know, compel them to do anything. And and listen, they understand where we all are.

Uh go ahead. Okay. Uh thank you for that portion, Chief. Um um we have training uh chief on page 69 178 um we've expanded it's always been um under 25,000 um we budgeted last year 25 or 24,000 and we were uh had some uh slush of 5,000 into that. Now you're asking for 30. What is the reason for the additional amounts that you're asking from what we expended last year?

Well well again the difference was bringing on uh eight new officers, right? So we we've increased that footprint that again a new officer uh should have exposure to a lot more training that's available. Okay. Than than our mandatory training and in the years that we've expended it in 25 as well as 24. How many officers did we have that came in at that time if you remember? Uh I don't remember off top of my head. Do you think it was right around the same amount? Were you the chief?

Yeah. It looks like four and 24 and 23. Um, okay. Then if you're telling me that it's eight,

four and 24 and and uh three and 23 you said. Okay. Um policy procedures 184 on the same page. Uh 11,000 2,000 up from what we expended. What is that for accreditation or Yes. policy and procedures. Yes, that's all part of our accreditation. We became accredited again for the first time. And is it uh is there a reason why there's almost a $2,000 increase for the accredit accreditation process for policy procedure? Uh that was uh the same as we had when you're talking about the increase was the same that we had adopted in 25.

So what we adopted in 25 doesn't hold us off for a couple of years. It's got to be done every single year for the credit. Okay. Thank you on that. That cycle goes that we accredited every year that has be maintained every single year.

So the money is actually for the maintenance of the accreditation. Okay. Um, on page 78, we have uh OEM coordinator and we have deputy coordinators that are at $500 and then we have the OEM coordinator at $7,000 Throughout the years of this um amount from 22 which is the same all the way to 2026 have we received any funds a return on our investment of the 7,000 that we pay for OEM coordinator?

Yes we do. What is the average amount that we get on a return for that? when you refer to that right there's a couple of uh different things but one of the things with uh our EAMA uh involvement with the municipal you want to define the acronyms that you just

when when you end up having emergency management uh with a county level and a state level. So at at our level we coordinate with the county and the state. One of the things they have a program that allows us to if we participate and we hit all of the milestones within that work plan they call it uh they will give us the will be eligible for a $10,000 uh payment. All right, that comes back to the town. in recently uh with the federal government we have not been able to receive they didn't have that available in this past year for us

is that the only opportunity that we have to get an ROI on the 7,000 expenditure

well the other thing that obviously this department in terms of the expenditure so for example we're right now beginning the process for the last winter storm to bring uh at a a preliminary damage assessment ment which is what it's considered for snow removal uh operations is $99,000. So, we're we're putting that forward uh that claim forward. We have to work through that whole FEMA process if in fact like I think it was mentioned before if that once a state declaration is made right that helps the state fund but obviously for the the federal government doesn't happen. So what happens regionally? We have to hit certain thresholds uh at a county level and at a state level for it to be presented to FEMA. If FEMA then declares that uh we have all our again that preliminary damage assessment or for us in particular was the snow removal $99,000 worth of activity uh that gets forwarded. If it becomes uh something that FEMA says yes, you are in fact going to be entitled to this. we start the FEMA process to to reclaim that money for the township.

Okay. So, there's a value to the OEM then in order to try to achieve that. Um on page 79, uh going back to the same thing we have um 077 cell phones. So, we just had the discussion about cell phones um before and now we have um a continued cell phone. Um since the OEM coordinators, one is a civilian and the other one is a police officer or two of them are police officers that I think would still be on the same cell phone from the previous conversation we had or am I wrong on that? Uh it's just how it's just how it's divided.

How the bill's divided. Okay. So, so it would be all part and parcel of replacement. Okay. So, then Mrs. Paul Mary, would we have to do an increase on this 077 on 79? Yeah. If you're talking about increasing cell phones for the police officers, then yeah, we would have to do it on both sides because the the the police officers that are also OEM, they're not the recipients of the cell phone line in the previous one that I spoke about. No, I we just take the bill and split it between two departments. Okay. So, if we were to increase just one, would it still cover all? We were increase one department, one cell phone line

depending on who it's for. If it's for one of the OEM officers, then we would be splitting it between police and OEM. I just want to make sure I have everybody covered, Chief. That's all correct. uh you know like I said whatever that increase is uh it would be uh the difference of three phones to to that OEM branch but again but those three phones aren't yeah ultimately it's the really just the cell phones themselves having to have be able to replace them and then the bill gets split accord

Okay and before I get to the end of this tab can we come up with a calculation of what you think would be necessary financially to replace those phones just so I can make a a close motion to cover those fees because that's something I'm openly going to move to support for the police department. So, if we can come up with a number so I can make that close.

Actually, Mr. Kelly, that'll for now that'll be the last page of what we do because then the police chief will be done and we'll pull out fire. I think anything after that is fire after 79. Um, right. So, really page 80 is the end of u police and emergency services. We'll have our chance to do fire. I just don't want to Do you want me to make motions on the police now or do you want Yeah. No, no. Do police now. Okay. Okay.

I just didn't want you asking fire questions when he's not. No, no, no. I I appreciate that. Um, so I would make a uh if I'm if I'm correct, I think it's page 66. I would make a motion uh to reduce the salary of the police officer that's vacant. I don't think we could do that. That's all contractual. And I don't think we could do that. It's vacant. Yeah, but I think it And again, correct me if I'm wrong. explain why we can't do that.

I wouldn't do that because these people, they stepped so quickly and now we're in the hole going next year instead of having to keep it essentially flat. Now I'm looking at, you know, having to increase it from 40,000 or the academy level is to to 70,000. Well, I mean, that's the thing though. If the economy level is going into the vacant position from that patrol officer being uh promoted to sergeant, we're not taking away the funds from the position for the new hire as we just spoke about which would come in at 50,000. So if I reduce the 135876 to 50,000 like it's identified in the lower areas for the academy step, why would that be a problem? I mean, we've we've removed these numbers before.

It's not a problem for 2020. Wait, can I just put a question on it? And I I understand what he's saying, right? I It's possible that we may not be able to do that. I agree with you. Just understand that if it comes back that for whatever reason, it it may not matter what we vote. No, I don't I don't agree. But I just don't know. I'm gonna I'm with you. Yeah, but 2018 and 2019, we had vacancies for that were almost three years. I I'm only concerned what the chief had said earlier. If they don't take someone into the academy and he comes from a transfer, an intergovernmental transfer, then we can't hire say a step six. I'm just making up then we're bringing in somebody at you know 100,000.

Well then, you know, then if that's the case because I the message I got from the chief was that we were looking at a new recruit coming in at academy level, right? But he did say that, right? So we can then take out the hypothetical of somebody at a step six based on what the chief is. Well, again that is certainly my intention as we speak. Yep. Okay. So we are in that process. Have we interviewed anybody? Have we interviewed anybody?

Uh we have applications are are are out. Uh they were due back yesterday. All right. And what so what I mean by that as in ter as far as not an intergovernmental transfer currently we're currently receiving those to do the interviews and the backgrounds on uh initial recruits that will be going to the academy right we approved the 138 right now the only thing the only caveat that I can make to that statement would be if in fact that process fails to produce uh an applicant that's successful essful in its background where we might then bring in an IGT or

if we approve the 138 and then uh the 135 and then we happen to end up hiring an academy person the difference we don't lose that no again that difference

it just goes back well the problem is though I don't want the taxpayers to pay for the difference that's not being used just to create a fund generator for the reserves so that's the optics that you guys put out there or I that's the optics that municipalities he's put out there to create money unnecessarily into a fund generating uh area versus let's just spend the money wisely. We know that we're having an academy level coming in based on the chief's being very adamant of doing so and the process that we have right now. Putting the $50,000 in is still guaranteeing a vacant position. We're then saving $80,000 and then the next position at 58,000 at their salary jump. then we're saving 72,000 and we're constantly saving money and money and money until we have another retiree promotion. So when we say that we can't reduce the 135 to 50, that's not accurate. We can reduce a vacant salary to a level even to zero.

Can you make are you going to make a motion? But I don't want to make I'm not making a motion to reduce it to zero. I want to cover it to the academy level based on I'm very confident from the way you express the academy level coming in. I would also comment obviously as that's being prepared for that level. We were still in the process of hiring uh several officers and several of which did come over as does IGT. of that process uh had continued and if you know and if we had a viable candidate at that time uh or from the time we continued with this we would have maybe brought them in but currently that is uh my intention what does the academy cost

40 cost uh $500 in county but how much money though I'm saying what does it cost for academy sp uh uh education like we pay for the academy yeah That's that's in county. How much does it cost? About $500 at a really. So we spend only 500 bucks to get a $50,000 salaried police officer that will be uh in training for a small period of time to go on the road.

Well, no. When you when you say that, I would disagree. Okay. All right. I would disagree with the fact that so the difference between possibly that intergovernmental transfer, you know, and and the dollars and cents of a $500 academy andor some time. The difference between an IGT or bringing in that intergovernmental transfer that that saves that puts an officer, a qualified officer, right? An officer with experience on the road. If I if when I bring in this uh officer, let's say to recruit, and again, I love supporting recruits or the or township residents, right? So I love bringing them in. Uh that's part of the dynamic also. But that dynamic comes at an expense of inexperience. Uh that inexperience where I can bring in an IGT. That IGT comes in they might have five eight years experience of law enforcement. Right. Which is a very uh you know depending on where you are that that's very difficult to gain that kind of experience. Yeah. Right. So uh so dollars and cents sometimes I I like that experience to to and the savings of time. So the difference between a five or six month academy plus their field training which goes another nine weeks. That's right. So two and a half as opposed to just the field training. So, you know, chief, and I and I'm glad that you said that because if we look at that where you want to get somebody on the street immediately because of their experience of a intergovernment transfer and uh the main thing is to get them on the street quickly. We were aware of this individual uh getting promoted back in 2025 in early November. The sergeant was uh 11:14 in 2025. So, if you're really concerned to get somebody on the street and get them running as a police officer, why don't you do it then rather than wait four months if it's so important to get somebody on the road?

I I don't understand the question. Well, we have we have a sergeant that the vacancy Mr. Kelly, it's not really relevant. It is. No, but if we're talking budget, let's if you're going to make a motion at this point, I think we've had really some really good discussion here. You have a vacancy for four months. I understand it. But at this point, council president, can I just add guys, can I add one thing? One thing, please. Please let him go. The total budget for the police is $7.2 million. Right. We with that we're funding 59 police officers totally, right? If you cut anything from the police budget, you're going to have to make that up down the road, right? The contracts are expiring. I I assume this at the end of this year,

right? I mean, I could probably with inflation, the contract is going to be somewhere. I mean, I don't want to give it up, but I would hope these cops make 10%. But let's say with inflation two and a half, 3%, whatever that is, that is going to continue to increase, right? If you cut that now, you're going to have to make it up down the road. What you're doing here is you're projected into the future, this is what this officer that's making $50,000 now is going to make when he's at top step 138. Right? So instead of making that 70 $80,000 later, your your budget is projecting what that cost will be going forward. Right. Okay. So at this point is

Yeah. I mean, I had a motion just I still stick with my motion to um reduce the vacant position of the 135876 to have the amount of 50,000 to accommodate academy level uh new hire. Is there a second? Okay, motion fails. Um on uh page 68077 to make a motion with cell phones again um I don't know if the time frame between the chief and Mrs. Paul Mary do you have a number to you think would be adequate? How much? 18,000 I'm sorry 18,000

increase it by 18 or or no total of 18. Total of 18 and that's a guess that we have, right? Correct. I would actually make a motion to increase it to 15,000. I think 18 I mean increasing it 10,000 to get 15 phones again. You think it's $1,000 of phones with a with a trade in and upgrade? Certainly possible. Okay. I don't know that we're going to get in value on it. So, I would make a motion uh and we would need a supermajority on this to increase uh on page 68077 cell phones from 8,800 to 15,000 which would include the service and for the phone upgrade. Is there a second? I'll second.

Thank you, Mr. Quinn. Uh clerk, please take the role. Council member Sberg, yes. Council member Voytovich? No. Council member Freellander. Council member Royek, no. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, no. Council President Morrison, yes. That is six yeses, three nos. Motion passed. Yes. Three. Motion passes. On uh sub account on the same page. I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you. It was a total of was bringing it up to 23. I'm just kind of keep track here. You brought it up to 23, right? No, I brought it to 15. To 15. Okay.

Did you want to change your vote? No, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Go ahead. And thank you, Chief, for that information, too. Um, sub account 01405 overtime. Again, I I don't see a substantial amount of information for the 105% of an increase for the overtime. So, I would then um make a motion to reduce the $310,000 to $250,000, which still is larger than it's been um in the years. Second. Thank you, Mr. Felander. Uh clerk, please take the role. Council member Sberg, yes. Council member Voyto, no. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, no.

Council member Freay, uh yes. Council member Quinn, no. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Zack, no. Council President Morrison, no. Motion does not carry. 54. What was the vote? Uh 54. 54. No. Correct.

Are we good? Um I'm just going through real quick. 69 is fine. Almost there. Council President. You're good.

U back to 79 uh sub account 077. Um just a quick question before I make my motion, chief. Uh, do you feel that the the amount that we put aside for the previous 077 line item for phone coverage can include into this? Like you have a phone in the other police department again. You need more money. No, I think that's out of it. Thank you. Okay. Um,

there's nothing past that at this point and I I'm just having a hard time with the I'm sorry. I said there was nothing past that. We're gonna Oh, I'm sorry. Fire department. I apologize. I'm done, Council President. Thank you for the extra time. Okay. Yeah, I think we're done anyway. Thank you, Chief. Okay. I'd like to make a motion uh to pass section five. um subsections uh pages 64 7377 Police Department Police Radio Communications and Emergency Management inclusive of the changes that were motioned. Second. Clerk, please take a role. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Voytovich, yes. Council member Freellander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed,

yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Morrison. Yes. It's nine yeses. Motion carries. Chief, thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chief. Mr. Heinselman, no pun intended. You have the hot seat. Warmed up nicely by the chief.

Um, okay. So, we're going to be covering um the eight green pond fire department fire preventions and fire hydrant. How can the municipal prosecutors under that state sort of account how they have it? Where is he? But it doesn't fall under any of that, right? I thought he said green. Yeah, that's what I heard. Okay. What page? I'm sorry. What page are we on? Uh starting at page 81. Section five, page 81. 81 to 94. Right. uh clarify we're going to include 95. Oh, this is all LO SAP stuff for me. So, no no LOAP we approved already.

This is uh pages uh 81 and then jumps to 85 through 95. Okay. 81 and 95 not including 83 because 83 was passed already. Okay. Um, Councilman Sber,

just one quick question. Um, page 85 kind of like a spreadsheet with it. So, I see we approved in the past $1,000 provision for salary adjustments from 4,800 um 2025. I don't see here or not. Was this funny utilized? Um, you're asking me about the,000 and the 48,000 and 4,800. 85 justify the numbers there. It looks It looks like the thousand was spent. I don't believe the 4,800.

Okay. Yeah, because it seems kind of inconsistent there. So, I'm again, everything else looks good, but I'm going to make a motion to um to remove the 5,000 for salary adjustment for 2026. So, so this is for a future increase. Is there a second? Oh, we have a conversation. Can we get Oh, we got a second first and then we have conversation. Okay. If there's a motion on the table, then we have conversation. I mean motion on the table, second conversation. It's it's point, right? Is there a second? Okay. Okay. Motion fails. No, you can also bring it back up. No, I don't know why we would cut anything when it came to the first fire department. when we come to you on weekends. Mr. Cyber's father-in-law,

Mr. Kelly, it's it's inappropriate. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, guys, guys, guys, it's very inappropriate. Yeah. Um, okay. I'm sorry. You still have the floor. Are you good? Yeah. Uh, Councilman Bovich. Yeah. I'm just curious, what is that uh provision of salary adjustment for? There's two people in this department for one individual. Okay. I don't have anything else on the whole fire department. Yeah. Not not right now.

I don't have anything else. Okay. Uh, Councilman Freellander. Uh, Councilwoman Royak. Uh, Councilwoman Freed. No questions. Uh, Councilman Kelly,

I do. Uh, first, Chief, thank you for everything you do. Uh, and Chief Miller is saying, I appreciate all your first responding and services. Um, I'm under uh 94. Um, and it's dealing with fire hydrant services. And um the one thing that I I don't see here, maybe chief you can explain it to me, is um in the northern portion of town, uh most of us from Meridan Road all the way up um have no water. We're all relying on self-s serving wells and and septic. We don't have sewer availability as well. So we don't have any fire hydrant services uh for those residents that are there. Matter of fact, we have very minimum amenities uh in the northern end which we choose to live.

Um but we do have stansion pipes, we have sistns, Um though I know it it's titled fire hydrant service but do we have anything that would actually service those sistns and those uh stand pipes for access to water when we have fire when we don't have the ability to pull out a pound or ponds or mutual aid isn't there in time.

So I can answer two ways. one um the sisterns are are split to Hiburnia and they're given responsibility to make sure that they're filled with water and their operation um and and that's a responsibility that that they take with great pride um to make sure that those water sources are ready to go. They range from f 50 5,000 gallons to 10,000 gallons um underground vaults that hold the water. Um so they're maintained well by the firefighters. The hydrant fee schedule on page 94 are for outside Rockway Township water systems that come into Rockaway Township. So Denville and Dover

Yeah. is what we're paying to use their hy Oh, okay. um you know and so there's there's no money that's allocated from the township through this budget or this page to fund Hiburnia or Marcella historically there's never been any provision who well if there's anything that's necessary to purchase for those stand pipes or cyro is there a developer agreement that would then hold the developer uh or the HOAs

that's something that would come up at planning level um as It stands today and for many years there's not been a provision for sistern maintenance as a function of the fire budget. May not be a bad idea to introduce that. I I don't know how because we to justify but is that a fire number? Um Lisa is I'm sorry. I mean you could always make a motion at the end call it like X. You know what I'm saying? So is can I just ask is there maintenance that needs to be done on them?

So the sisterns there's potential maintenance on it. There are there are times that the the connections above ground could be damaged. Um I think the biggest maintenance issue is painting them because off identification of them. Um so who pays for the paint now and who does the labor? Well the firefighters do the labor. So the in your past the

I've worked with Al to maintain the weed growth around he's gone through and had um a a weed control company spray the weeds and it causes them to die. Um they've identified Thank you for that. Um he put new signs up for us um a few years about two three years ago. Um so there's new signs on them, but actually who's going out and painting them. That that's quite undefined.

Well, the painting of it is I mean I understand that. I mean, I could have a a a really badl looking vehicle that the paint's horrible, but if as long as it works and functions is fine as long as I can get point A to point B. My primary concern is the potentiality of those cyins or those stand pipes not being able to function at the time of need. And if we don't have either a program or something in place or uh a maintenance schedule, no different than generators and stuff like that, we'll never know until the time of need when something and we've had we've had had issues of those things there. So, and council president, I don't want to get out of this and get

No, no, no. Because I I think you're going to find support, but and just a a procedural question, Miss Paul Mary, if Mr. Kelly wants to make a motion to add it to the fire department budget. We don't Can we add a line for that? Yes. Okay. And not fill the line like I mean how Oh, yeah. How would you do that? Well, here we are. We don't know. And I'm not going to put the chief on the spot. Um both chiefs on the spot. Biggest thing is making sure that there's Put your microphone on. Chief, put your mic on your mic. Yeah.

The the biggest thing is access to the system. So, weed control, which is being done, signage, which we already talked about is being done. Um, painting, I'm not sure where that's going to fall under, but as far as the actual operation of the system, make sure the connections are fine. And we would do that first before we did anything else. That's my guys that are doing that and do that. Would your guys do that from Birwood in the areas that are I'm talking about I'm talking about Marcel and I. Oh, okay. But department, my guys,

but if we chief, uh, and again, I apologize for for continuing this, but it's important to me, my constituents in and our ward. Um, there still has to be potential monies that would be set aside, and I don't think that it would come out of the budget of Hiburnia or Marcella in order to upgrade, repair, uh, to make them functional before we painted and identified them. Well, you can add it. It won't come out of any of his budget. I would propose we add it to 026 on well again I mean it where it comes from but again I'm just saying that it's not

apologies if I'm wrong Mr. Kelly, but we don't have to take money away from something to add that for because like a sister maintenance is nothing that we've ever done before and it's a worthwhile thing. I understand your concern. I think it's been a while. Yeah. Do we flush those? You don't know. I mean, we flush this. Do we need to They just we they get filled. Make sure that they're off. Okay. So, and and I should add the the firefighters in Marcela and Green Marcella and Hiburnia know those systems. So, that though they can't see into the ground and see what's in there. Yeah.

Through their many years of maintaining these systems, they know if they're full or if there's a problem that they have. It's it's just something that they've gained from years of experience in doing it that they know the water's going in and it's holding or it's not going in or being lost. I just want to make sure because I feel like we're kind of in a weird position almost with with you know the cheap we're trying to give you money. I understand but I don't know how much money to ask for. So So what would you say Joe? I mean do you have

So what what what I would say is definitely not fire companies paying for this. I if they feel comfortable I would want to talk to Hiburnia um and Marcela chiefs that they're maintaining them they don't have any concerns if something happened to one of them we would just we could have an emergency council meeting and propose a resolution but we don't want to wait until something happens that's that's point yeah but there's from talking it's a tank in the ground there's not anything to maintain that's a sister that's not a stand pipe so stand pipes are probably not going to be permitted anymore yeah uh D is most likely not going to let you um excavate in the area of a waterway to maintain that. So, they kind of just fall away.

If they fail, you're not going to you're not going to get D support to re repair that. Sistns are a different Do we get permits now to repair them or address them? Is there a permit requirement from D? Oh, absolutely. Okay. Wow. I kind of like you just took a little wind out of my sale to what we're trying to do because it would be throwing money are a different story. Sistns are just holes in the ground along. Yeah, but I I would support you too. So, I mean, can we just together come up with the number? It doesn't mean we have to spend it, but again, I'd rather have it and not need it, you know. I I don't even logical.

And I'm just going to Can I just throw the football just behind you for a second? This is Fante. in developer agreements. Is there a lifelong obligation from a developer or an HOA where cyrins were mandatory based on the approval from the planning board of board of adjustments or your department to be installed? Is there an obligation for them to maintain them rather than the fire departments? So there is you know it's being handed over in a functional manner

to who? To us the township. Okay. We have spoken and trying to capture that with future developments. Um, I would think it mainten they're leaking. Some of them have block $250. I mean, you know where I'm going with this, Jeep. Yeah,

I I understand where you're going. I I I understand the intention. I just don't know how much could be. There's 20 systems. Council President, if we were to though, we had this great conversation and thanks for everybody's their input and we close this tab. We still have an opportunity to open the tab once we find this information out before we adopt the budget. So, I asked that. No, actually I I I checked that question while we were out. We can't reopen a tab, but what you can do is when we're done, you can make a motion outside of the tab to add $1,000 to the budget for the purposes of whatever. Can we create a line item during that time? Mrs. Paul Mary, can we line it?

Can we create that line item? I I wouldn't suggest we create the line. I think we should add it to 026. Okay. No, no, but if we close the tab, I can't we can't add it. I actually I asked that question specifically because another council member asked me that. adding a line item is the same thing as adding

well let's let's take out the adding the line I I I take that back I mean following your advice of 026 but what I'm saying is we don't have really a good amount of information and I don't want to overinflate ridiculous amount of monies that are in there rather be kind of close with a little bit of a safety net but if we don't know that now and I don't want to put both chiefs on the spot the mayor or yourself if if there would be an agreement that you know this is something of a concern um that we can get a little bit more information get that information from administration or the mayor and then we can make a motion either to myself, Mr. Morrison or anybody here to increase 026 by X amount. When would that take place? Before the adoption of the budget. So would it be on the night of the adoption? We only have one meeting. We don't have any more meetings between now and then.

Well, it would be before whether it's the night of or the special meeting or because we we come to you presented with the budget. It's it's already on the state document. It's all wrapped up. Can I ask question? How much doing that night? I don't know. I mean 10 grand. Yeah. Do you think that would be a sufficient chief? How many sistns do we have? There's 14 in Hib Bernie's response area. There's six in Marcelis. So we have 20. That would be roughly one, two, three, four 15,000gallon. Oh no, I'm sorry. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, gallon sistns and and then 12 5,000gallon system.

So 20. We have like basically $500 of monies per dedicated per sister. Some could be more, some could be less. Yeah. Because again, I think the maintenance piece that we can address is is everything that's visible above ground. Uhhuh. If there's an issue underground,

the one hub, call it an emergency, and say we've got a system that's out of service. We've got a number of value to do the repair. Can we get the money to do so? In lie of the immediacy of an an incident up north, we've got t tenders in Hiburnia, Marcella, and Green Pond that can come in, drop a pool, fill that with water in lie of the immediate sistern that's next to the property that may be having a fire. So, am I getting the feeling that you're saying maybe we should not

No, no, no. I I think $500 is peristn is is a good starting point to address the visible components of the sistern. And if we ever find that there's an in issue underground, we excavate, research, and come back with an emergency and say, "We've got a 15,000galon system that is damaged. We need to replace it. How do we go about securing? Well, not all of them may not be repair. We can use some money more than the others depending what it is. And and uh Mr. Nth 8 inch or 6 inch hubs on them for the sistns for connections coming out of the top of them.

That's a 5 in 5 in. They're 5 inch PVC. So like six inch now. They're like almost $100 a it goes to a 5 inch connection, but like they're they're $100 a hub. Whether it's a 90 where it's a threaded adapter cap that's on there. So, I mean, three three hubs could be $300 right there that could be cracked or or broken. $500 a sister earn is a good number to start with. Okay. I I'm comfortable with that. You comfortable with that? Yeah. Listen, the bottom line isn't Listen, the bottom line is is at the north end of town, right? They don't have hydrants. It's like Dr. Evil style.

Yeah. But it doesn't mean you're going to use all the money, you know, if we save one house. Do you have any comments on I'm sorry. I'm just Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Uh, so um I I would just make a motion as indicated from Mrs. Palmary in line 026. Which page? 87 87 87. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Palmary. to increase that line item for public safety. Um 026 026. Which one did you equipment maintenance? Yep. From 37 up $10,000 from 37 to 47. Yes.

I'll second that. Thank you. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Sabberg. Yes. Council member Vuittovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freeday, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President, President Marson, yes. It's nine yeses. I think it's money well spent. Thank you for that. You make a motion to um approve the tap. Uh, no. We got to go through.

Oh, I'm sorry, Jonathan. Go ahead. I have nothing. Thank you. Uh, okay. With that, I make a motion to approve uh tab five. Second um sections uh 81H Green Pond Fire through and including 95 municipal prosecutor. Seconded. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Voyovich. Yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Morrison,

yes. That is nine yeses. Motion carries. Uh, we need another five minute. Yes. All right. I see you squirming in your seat. Uh, five minute break, folks. And strict five minutes. We'll be right back. All right.

on the fire and I appreciate. Absolutely. Uh okay, we are going to go to um uh recreation. We did. Uh tab nine. And uh first and foremost, Miss Valer, thank you for giving up your participation in St. Patrick's Day parade today for this. This is just a big a party. Uh okay. Section nine. Um Council

Talber. No question. Uh Councilman Wovich. Not at this time. Uh, Councilman Freedellander. It's only

uh, Councilwoman Roy. Yeah, I'm confused because there is no environmental committee. So, why is there a hundred dollars there? And and shouldn't there be an environmental committee? But that's another story. But, um, which page one? What? 139. It's explained in the detail after that page why it's not there. Why did you read the detail of that particular? I didn't. No, it's explained why. Susan, could I could I just hop in real quick? Yes, please. Saber.

Um, the environmental committee. There's $300 set aside. There's currently no environmental committee. I'd like to make the motion to bring the environmental committee back to use that $300 going forward. Wouldn't we do that at a Yeah, that's really more of a uh that's more of a council meeting thing and I don't leave it in the budget so we could bring it back. Okay, there you go. Well, that was the reason why you have that amount that's in there was to do that which is noted in the notes of it was a spotolder. There was no potential of bringing it back. Yeah, but that's why they're keeping money in it. The plan is to bring it back.

Okay. There's a motion. There is a motion on the floor. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What? Do it at a regular meeting. What's the motion? Leave them to leave it at night. Leave them. Idraw. All right. Uh, whose turn was it? It was Councilwoman. Yeah. Do you have anything else? Do you have anything else? Uh, Councilwoman Freed. No. Uh, Councilman Quinn, no. Comment. No. Councilman Kelly. Uh, let's see. We can go into um page 14. Interrupt you for a second. Where? Absolutely. Sure. Where did I miss that? You said I missed that.

There's a there's a provision that was noted in there. Why we were keeping it open for the the money in where? Yeah. In on the notations inside the budget pages. You can look at it later and I can go back to what I'm doing here. Well, thank you. It was just not We can we can cover that later. Um on 142 provisional um salary adjustments we have um uh 15,000 that was approved in 2025. Did we use that? Yes, we did all of it. I believe so. I believe that's contractual. That 10 is it? No, it's salary adjustments. 10 is not contractual.

Okay. So now we have um 10,000 for provisional uh salary adjustments. And is that for multiple employees or just one employee? I'm sorry. I believe it's for one for one one employee. Now in in the wreck department, have we had an increase of employees? I'm not talking about what their services or what they do. I'm just asking, have we increase in employees? We have not. Have we had um a reduction of employees? We have not.

Okay. And I see that we had an employee added to recreation on January 1st of 25. What page? 142. Who is who has now been reclassed to the Oh, correct. Right. 25 you're talking. So now we're reducing they were moved to administration. Okay. Has um has rec department um increased as far as its workload? Yes, I believe so. In what areas? Parks. Uh

parks. Um it's it's a very small department. Can't get any smaller. Um, and uh, what what we do is run very lean and uh, speaking with administration, I I think it's a it's a good number to be at with the $10,000 increase for the salary adjustment. Correct. To one person on top of the 3% that they also get. Absolutely. Well, I'm sorry. The increased work that was your question, right? Did you increase the workload in your department? We started the National Night Out. You're always involved in that. The Rockway Township Day. You're always involved in that, correct? You're I mean, I always see you there,

right? So, are you You're identifying an employee that's a recipient of the salary. No, I'm not. No, no, no. No, he's bringing up identifying the extra workload in within that department. That's all I'm saying. Well, we have we have an events coordinator that does that though. We do.

Right. So, there's no other and I'll get into that. Uh maybe you can help me better understand that. So, um, we have a salary adjustment that's addressed to one person for $10,000 in addition to their 3% increase. Um, so the numbers that we see, Mrs. Palmary, on the right hand side, I'm not going to identify one particular number, but if any of them individ any of those individuals were to be the recipient of that sole amount of 10 grants, it would be added on to this number. Yeah. When you look at 27's proposed next year, if it were approved, you would see 10,000 added on and any number% any number of salary there. Yeah,

let's say uh one is a pretty substantial increase. It's welld deserved. We're not discussing one. We're not discussing one or performance or anything at this point. Mr. Kelly, if you have a motion. No, no. I was just uh it doesn't make sense. We haven't added anybody. the No, no, I understand. But if you don't have a motion, then Well, on this one, I would actually um I disagree with Mr. Dyer's assessment, and I think that the provisional salary adjustment uh for 10,000 for 2026, we should bring it down to zero. Yeah. Right. Manny, are you making a motion? Yeah, I do that. Thank you, Manny. Clerk, please take the role.

You shouldn't be talking. Council member Sal. Okay. Council member Kelly, let them have their discussion. They can talk however they want to talk. No, I'm just not telling somebody how to vote. Mr. Kelly, you don't know what they're talking about. I I hear them pretty clear. You don't know what you're talking about. She was asking me if you could ever give her an explanation from what you said before, but you still haven't. Council member Freellander, yes. Council member Roy, Council Member Fre, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sackett, no. Council President Morrison, no. Forgot.

Yeah, you forgot. Two. No, we voted first. There was some commotion going on. Oh, okay. What were their votes? Salberg, no. Votes. Uh, Vulovich, no. Yes. So, it's five to four. Motion passes, right? You have 54. Yes. Okay. Motion passes. Yes. 2 3 4 5 on uh page 144. Uh it's be I'm sorry 14 page. Oh, I'm sorry. 144. Mrs. Pomeary.

Special events. Um I do see the list of special events in the um account description on the following pages. Um a lot of these that we have from previous years maybe uh Mr. Mayor if you could just which ones are new on and they're listed on 146. Yep. Um, so not that they're new, but there's different things we're doing. So the spring festival, the trunk or treat, uh, we're we're adding things to that. We're doing, uh, the national night out is new starting two years ago.

Can we stop right there on a national night out? $9,700. What is that for? Uh, so the goal is to have it be costneutral to residents. So we have vendors come and provide services that we pay for so that they come. And the vendors are they money driven, profitable vendors that would make money? Yes. So why do we pay them then if they're making money on us? Well, I'm sorry. The the vendors. Yeah. Yeah. The vendors are We have obviously free food, free popcorn, free drinks, we have rides. Um it's familyfriendly obviously supporting our police department. Do any of the vendors charge a fee for any of their services that Correct. They're with the bouncy house of that nature. Correct.

They do charge a fee. Yes. Sure. Right. That's not fair. Right. Well, no. We're paying them to come in and give out popcorn and give out stuff. Right. Yeah. No, it's free. It's free to residents. Put on the event. They're charging us to give stuff away. Charging us. Yeah. No, but we're paying them to be there, right? Out of this $9,700, we're paying a vendor to be there. Correct. So, what is the on the games and stuff, but they don't they don't make a profit. There's there's no fees that are associated that they can get the rides are free. The ax throwing free everything. Everything's unlimited for anybody with no cost to it. Exactly. Spenders getting paid their time to be there from this $9,700. Correct.

But a a participant does not give them $5 to go onto the bouncy house that event and not never go into your pocket. Okay. That was my only concern on that. Yep. I'm sorry, Mor. You No, no, go ahead. Um yeah, obviously Hanukkah, Christmas tree is the same. Um prom to the seniors 6,000. Where does the cost be driven for that? So we which is a great idea, Mrs. Yeah, we do it at the clubhouse. We provide food. Uh we have a DJ, things of that nature. We give out prizes to Is there a rental that we have to pay for the prom? I mean, this came from an idea from I thought the POA. No, from one of the members, I guess, a resident of White Middle Lake, I believe. Yeah. So, this is all rental, food, and everything else collectively. Okay.

Um I I can't speak to the scavenger hunt. I'm not exactly sure um what those funds are for. I know it got cancelled this year. Um obviously, we're looking to do a movie night at Pikatini. That'd be something new. Uh Celebrate Lakes Day is something new. Um and then I would need uh Shannon here to to talk about the the next three because she would have all the details. So, I'm sorry. When we have seasonal banners, do we reuse those banners or do we discard those banners after we use them? I can't I can't speak to it, Mr. I'm not I'm not sure what the seasonal banners are. Um I I can only guess it's for advertisements and things of that nature. Okay. And the Rockaway Day Fall Festival

um getting bigger and better every year. It is. But there's also vendors that charge or that's going to be correct. That's different than National Night Out. That's why I'm asking this question then. We're paying 30,000 for what? If if if we're paying money for vendors to be there and the vendors are then charging money like for instance there there was another establishment that did food truck festivals and invested all this other stuff to our first renewal of Rockway Day um that Mr. Saket was involved with and they actually paid money to the town to have the event. Is that what we're having here where the vendor that we contracted with

right now with this is all going through special events. We're not we don't have a a a broker doing the event. Well, that that wasn't really a broker. That that individual provided the service and and everything that was there. And it was money that was generated from the food trucks and everything else. I think we even charged an entry fee. It was a Yeah, it was $5 entry fee. Yeah. But it all but you also received that back. You got money back. You got percentage of the take. So you got part of the vig on this particular 30,000.

This would all be for u the ban, the county house, if there was fireworks, things of that nature, things to bring to the to the event. I just I have no problem paying money if everybody doesn't have to pay anything additional that those who attend. So everything that's going to be there other than the food obviously we're not paying for food truck vendors to be there are we? No. Okay. Paying the permit. Right. Correct. They're getting paying for your food. Sure. But but as far as like the petting zoo and all those things, the bouncy house, there's no additional fee for a kid to ride a pony.

This all become in-house now with our events coordinator doing it all in-house. We're not charging a gate fee or anything of that nature. I just don't want vendors making money on us paying for them to be there. That's the problem. Right. That's correct. Yep. That's the only concern I have. Agree with that. Thank you. Right.

Um the the one position that we have with the event coordinator, Mr. Dire prior to that position being created, a lot of these things were always consistent um to take place through efforts of our wreck department. Uh is there a reason why we are now paying an employee to cover that when we were actually absorbing that amongst all going down a slippery slope here? Like we approved the events coordinator last year or the year before. You were approved in tab one too.

No, no, I know that. But we're going down a slope there. Like because we're talking about a particular employee and so did the recck department do it on their own. We can't D. It's not appropriate. It's not appropriate to answer. We're not talking about the the coordinator anymore. No, but we kind of are. So it's not appropriate to answer.

No, we're not. I'm not talking about I I I appreciate it, Council Morrison. I mean, council president, but the duties of the wreck department without this prior to in 2024, did we put together events? As we mentioned earlier that the the recreation department is extremely slim where I was trying to get certain someone in increase. Um, the rec department can't handle this these types of events. But in in uh did we have we had some of these events prior to uh December 31st of 2020? Sure. Did were they as great as these are going to be in the future? No, they were not.

What's different? We have a dedicated person doing these events now.

I think the events have grown year after year after year difference. There's a lot more manity and quantity for that. Well, he's not doing it anymore. They passed it over to one person where we had a staff of five person. But again, I think we're get we're going down a we're going down a road. No, I I know we're not identifying names. So, council president, that's the key for the Rice violation. But we're talking about a position that um cell phones uh page 149.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is this is going into uh Mr. Nth. I'm sorry. Council President, how do you want to do this? I think one page 146 is the end for Mr. Dyer on this. Everything goes into others. Uh, you know what? Yeah, because the other after 146, it's still it's still parks, but it's actually under Mr. Parks because I get it. It's still all tab nine. So for now, Mr. Knox, if you could also take the hot seat. So

Well, I just I'm going to Should I make a motion in regards to this these provisions here or you want to wait till again to come close to the tab? What do you mean other things that we Yeah. I mean, we just talked about some stuff. Uh no, no, make if it doesn't if it doesn't if you don't need them, if you don't need any more information, then yes, go ahead and make your motion. Well, um, under, uh, 144250 with special events, we we are canceling out one of, uh, the events that's taking place, which accumulates to $2,500. So, I would just, uh, I would make a motion to I mean, we didn't even spend the 65 that we spent that we Please make your motion.

So, I would make a motion to reduce the line 250 from 85 to 80. Is there a second? Motion fails.

Um, and one quick question, Mr. um, Dyer, under 145. Oh, I'm sorry, under um, recreational equipment sub account 065 on 144 or I'm sorry, 143. Yeah. 143 recreational. Yeah. Under uh sub account 065. Got it.

Um as far as the recreational equipment, we have um cleaning and maintenance of concession stand um and includes the portable restrooms and lifeguard equipment and purchase of beach tags. Is that a service from somebody? The cleaning concession stand? Yes. The badges? Yes. The third one. Yeah. So, we subcontract a company to come and clean the concession stand. Twice a year. Correct. And do you know what that costs for that contract for that company? No, off the top of my head. No. I mean, if it's twice a year, it's it's two days out of 365 days,

right? When the seasons turn over, let's say when football's done with it, we'll get it cleaned out. And and the that includes the portable restrooms. So that's a service that comes in like Zimma or something like that for portaotties like our baseball fields our softball fields right what is what is the cost for that service for waste waste removal I mean they provide that service with uh cleaning the cost for it I don't know that number don't know

if I and when I I'm sorry yeah when when I managed football and well you didn't have the uh the stand when you were there the the money to come in and clean it is really for the grease traps the flu It's really a fire prevention thing. It's Yeah, I would certainly would not want to do that. Like it's really It's not like wiping tables down. It's like No, no, no. I know that with restaurants and everything else the same. No, I get it. It's equipment.

I just It does cleaning and maintenance of a concession stand. And I don't know what level of it is. And I I just don't know that it's for one day a $5,000 fee for them to power wash the vents and grease traps and stuff like that. That just seems in a very excessive number. And I don't know how many portaotties that we have that we're cleaning as part of the contract to serve them which may may include a great deal from all the portaotties that we have all of our parks and public areas lifeguard equipment and purchase of beast tags. that we constantly purchase lifeguard equipment um every year. That budget line is also used for um for example, I bought new netting for the softball field because those removal softball field netting. Um

do you buy that every year? Batting cages netting. You buy that every year. Don't buy it every year, but that's what that budget line is for. So you you need new netting. Is there new netting that you need right now that you've put in for? I might I do, but I'm going to see if I can fix it. Okay. So, then it's not really necessary in here. Um, and again, of all these years of doing the concession stand, no clue what it cost to I wasn't aware you were going to ask that question. I would have had You prepared the budget though. I didn't I used to coordinate that when I was with the Rockets. It was What did it cost, Mr. It was a couple thousand. I could probably actually even look up the bills, but it was a couple thousand dollar.

Yeah. So, I mean, if it's a couple grand, let's just say 3,000, that's $6,000. I don't see where the other uh $19,000 would be required for page in line. Uh 145 is the detail 065 just to give you a better detail. Oh, that's not just a concession stand. That's like all the Russian what we're talking about. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, there's only one concession stand, Mr. Quinn. Right. Okay. So, guys, it's just we we understand if if there's a motion, let's make a motion.

No, that that was uh um again, that was just the difference of not having that one event anymore. Um I'm good on that. Council on a second. Page one uh page 142. I'd like to make a motion for provision for department of promotion salary adjustment to raise from $0 to $5,000. You can't. You can. Yes, I can. He can do that. Second. Clerk, please take the role. I'm sorry. Who made the second? Y. Uh, Councilman Wovich. Thank you. Council member Sber saying that we can't go. Council member Votov let him vote. Council member Votovich.

Yes. I'm sorry. Council me, what was the first? Yes. Yes. And yes. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Council member Freellander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freed. Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Absolutely not. Council Vice President Sack. Yes. Stop. Council President Marson. Yes. Seven yeses, two nos. Motion carries. You have anything else? I have nothing else. President, I just have question. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. I only have I only had one. No, no, no. I was going to wait. I'll wait for your question. I only had one no there. Who else was right? You said two nos. 81. Oh, you said two nos. Did I? It's okay.

I'm sorry. I just want to make sure we're on the same page. 81. Got it. So, what happens now, Council President? Do we make a motion to take away the $10,000? you motion to take away 10.

But what we what we just had before, if we recall, and and Mr. RTO, I think you were pretty much somebody that kind of pushed that the constant going back and forth, whether it was a passing of a resolution to rescend another resolution or in this case, we had the support to take away the $10,000 and for whatever reason or electronic communications among some of these council members behind the scenes. Now, we have changed our mind to then reinstate the $10,000. Regardless of it, we all voted zero on it originally to actually have it.

When you make a motion, there's when you make a motion, there's no room for like negotiation, right? So, while somebody might have voted no because they don't want to take away 10, they might have given you five. You know what I'm saying? So your specific resolution was to eliminate 10 which passed. Right. Right. So how do you then go to zero? How do you vote in favor? Just again just I tell you what we'll do. I understand your point. So I tell you what we'll do. Let's we have the two. Let's table it. We'll get an official legal decision. And if it's determined that we can't undo it, then Councilman Kelly's will stand. We can because we haven't finished the section. You can do

I believe we can, but just leaving the door open. You can't resend a motion when it was taken until the next meeting. He's not rescending it. He's he's he's amending it. Well, you're not amending it. You're making another motion to go against. All right. But then there was a reason why four people who voted in your favor earlier now voted in. You can't have two contradicting motions on the books. You have one that says no, which passed, right? It's going to be in the minutes. And now you have another one that increased it which passed. Right. So you you can't have the same amount. It's not undoing it. It's a different amount. It is undoing it because it contradicts from the zero to now the 5,000. So my answer to you is I understand your point. Yeah.

I will they're both in there. We will get a legal opinion and if it the legal opinion is that it was not proper then we'll revert to Mr. Kelly's. I think that's a good middle. I just want to add, you know, I voted obviously no to cut it by 10,000 because I think that was drastic and a motion just increased your zero. No, you can't look at it that way. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a valid motion. Mr. Tell, we know what we're going to do. This is a simple point, Mr. RTOic. It's already increased by 13,000. So now you're going to increase it an additional uh 5,000 now. So now you're you're giving you're giving that person that's his prerogative. $18,000 with a 3% increase.

Mr. Kelly subject, Mr. Kelly, we're off the I understand everybody's how that feels to the other people. Mr. Kelly, please. We're off the subject. All right. I have one question. Um page 146 again under special events. We approved $10,000 earlier um for the police departments for the police academy and I see another $10,000 here for another police academy. That's for juniors, isn't it? Why the duplication? This is for the the the junior academy. The uh young kids

and chief, this is not what you had. depending on a charter bus liberty and we're looking for that was the initial now we're looking for 32 individuals for that program.

So his is really 10,000 for program facilitation and yours is for like support. Okay. What page is that, Mr. Mor? Uh 146 uh second to the last under special events. Oh. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um okay. I make a motion to approve um the entirety of tab six with the exception of condo reimbursement which was already done um inclusive of all the changes noted. Can I have a second? So move clerk please take the role. Council member we're voting for the whole six. Sorry. Sorry we still got Mr. N. Right. Right.

Sorry you didn't say anything. You were ready to take it. I'm sorry. Tab nine in its entirety. Second. Clerk, please take the role. Council member Sberg. Yes. Council member Voytovich. Yes. Council member Freellander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freeday. Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Abstain due to the council there's a reason. Yes. Council President Morrison. Yes. It's eight. Yes. Is one extension. Uh motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Dyer.

Uh now we're going to go Now we're going to go back to uh tab six. Um tab six, uh public works. Councilman Slberg.

We aren't finishing nine. save a little bit of time later on. This is one of the questions that I did ask and didn't get answer and I'm gonna go ahead and read the answer that I received. Um again that this is the right information. Um when it comes to page 97 again under uh provisional promotion salary adjustments uh the jump from 5,000 to 40,640 I have here that there was a resignation of one employee and there is a recommendation for an internal promotion to this position um and that ultimately between those things those two things happening the whole salary budget is only going up by approximately $1,000. Is that correct? Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Um, Councilman Wutovich, I have nothing. Councilman Freellander, Councilwoman Roy, no question. Councilwoman Freigh, no questions. Councilman Clint, no question. Councilman Kelly, uh, page 99, uh, sub account 028. 028. Yeah. Okay. special service for tree removal.

So, in the last uh since 23 leading up to where we're at right now, it seems that um we're going down in numbers uh because once we remove that tree, it's not growing back to be cut down again. Um that's within our easements and stuff like that. Um, and then in December of 2025, uh, we were at $11,925, but now we are requesting, um, about 115% of an increase to $25,000. Is there a um a a projected plan of areas to battle um some of the tree or tree removal vegetation?

Yes, we're anticipating uh tree removal uh on some of our parks and just the increased amount of uh dead trees that are on our town property. We have 198 pieces of property within the township around move trees on. Do you feel that it would hinder if we were to reduce that by $5,000 to make it an even 20? Would that based on what our last amount was um in the years even prior it was close more to the 20. Do you think that would affect your ability to I like the eyebrows, Mrs. Pomeary. Yeah, because I've been Well, you're you're indicating to him what to say.

No, no, no. Don't don't presume what she's indicating. She's laughing and watching. She knows what she was doing. Don't presume what she's indicating. I'll be candid because I've been using uh capital money uh for some of our parks to remove trees in our parks facilities. So, by doing so, I cannot sustain those capital accounts without the 25. Do we do them? I mean there's we we only have limited equipment to uh to address trees. So is a lot of this contractual? That's correct. It is. And have we sought out like other contractors? Like we have a uh one contractor that I see do a lot for the town. Have we ever looked into other contractors that

we use the county co-op contractor and we use uh alto together? It is three contractors that that we use on a rotational basis. uh the the county co-op we use for for large tree removal projects. Yeah. So, um again, and I love everything that you do, Mr. Kn. Obviously, you do a fantastic job, and your employees do the same. Do you believe that a $5,000 reduction from 25 to 20 would would have a heavy negative effect on tree removal? I could do the 20. You could? Yeah. Okay. Um, so I'd make a motion to reduce line 028 from 25,000 to 20,000.

Second. Cler, please take the role. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Voytovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freay, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President Sacket, yes. Council President Marson, yes. It's nine. Yes, this motion passed. Uh, Mr. North, on the same page of 150 with asphalt. Yes.

And, uh, I had my mind set originally and then we have this Iran crisis and petroleum uh, concerns and increases, but we're dealing with asphalt. Um, in 2023, we had some pretty hefty projects where we were at 37,000, but it's continued to fall since then. So the projects in 2023 um what are the current projects that we have um planned for 2026 for uh asphalt requirement or need we do have some large scale especially now we have the uh the Tilmark road project uh for drainage but we have for the repair over there by whipppper and that's correct that's going to eat up a lot of asphalt

okay and that that came after the fact of when this budget was assembled right that's correct Yeah. Okay. Well, you know what? Originally, I was going to You already made a reduction from the requested amount to begin with. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, I agree, Manny. I just um Mr. Nath makes a great point.

And and Mr. off on on page 103 uh account 06 the uh the salt and calcium and uh the sand and grit and stuff like that. Um are we seeing some additional increases? I mean I know you're going to replenish it for the next year. I don't know if it's cheaper to buy his stuff now or when a time comes for need, but do you see driving up cost going on with that? Currently, generally in in years past when it's been a heavy winter, the price of salt the following year has gone up. But in in purchasing our our reserves, I'll make a a kind of a joke about it. It's cheaper to buy a jet ski in the winter than it is in the summer.

And that's that's what we're doing currently right now. Okay. um on page 106 um and it's sub account 014. I don't know Mr. Sack if you want to kind of chime in on this one too if it's in the same review of you. You can go.

Okay. Um what I see here, we have expended on overtime um just under 3500 uh just under um 1,624. We've never really had um anything over $2,300 in regards to overtime. However, it's requested for 14,000. So, um that's about 420% of an increase. And uh I'm just wondering what is the anticipation for that number to be that high.

Well, we have been using uh more and more of our employees uh for actively for storms. Uh so this like this winter and in in particular um when when we're deploying uh employees, they're all of them are being deployed in not one shot but throughout the course of a storm through traffic maintenance. H you know um how many employees do we have in this area? That's one one person. One person. Yes.

And with the storms that we had now in regards to overtime. I mean we had we had some snowfalls but I think um the uh the late January and middle uh February large dump. Do you think that one person I mean 14,000 is a lot for one? Well, it it's not only just the winner. I'm only using that as an example. Uh for for any kind of large scale call out or um summertime when when we get that one foot of rain within a half hour, right? Uh he would be deployed with our trailer to go set up all our barricades and everything like that. Of course, with other uh DPW employees, but

that's that's what the anticipation is. we've we've noticed that kind of uptick um and we'll be using that employee more and more regularly for that. And I I always try to ask too um I mean the 14,000 uh would a $10,000 amount for that overtime be uh something comfortable to where we would still facilitate the potential of that one employee for overtime? I mean, we're it's three times the highest amount that we ever had back in 2023. Yes. Yes.

Okay. I would make a motion to reduce uh 014 on page 106 from 14,000 to 10,000. I'll second it. Uh please take the role. Sorry. Council member Salper. Yes. Council member Vtovich. Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freed. No. Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Morrison. Yes. It's eight yeses, one no. Motion passes.

Uh Mr. North on um on signs on uh 062. Um we make signs now in house at our new uh water building. We currently do not. We do not. No, our system is antiquated. Within the capital budget, there is a new sign making machine. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was something that was already in place. No. So, this is subcontracted out to other companies or you buy them online? We did we right now we are subcontracting out

and in the near future. Is this something that we're looking to do this change? Like when will we get our new sign machine? Uh it all depends on what they bring. Okay. But but leading towards that it would be a money-saving thing doing it in house. Right. That is correct. And we we have we have we would have the capability of making signs uh of up to like five 5 foot by 4 foot 60 by 60 in signs. And I and I believe uh one we have a great staff because there are members that can make signs but they would be all um compliant to de or to uh do regulations and all that kind of stuff reflections and everything else. Okay, that's correct.

Um so the the next question I have is on 166 of that uh sub account line striping. Is that something that we do in-house or is that something we subcontract like? No, we'll we'll do our storm basin lines just for your information. Uh once we we repave a road or we go through the roads once a year, we put the little if you ever wonder what the little yellow lines the tick marks are on that's for the winter time so we know where just to know identifying where they are.

That's that's pretty much the extent of what we do. We'll do some crosswalks. We'll do some parking spaces. that that 0 166 is for the co-op vendor to line let's say Mount Pleasant was just done in uh late October early November. Do we have um a projected I mean again we we we had a big hit in 2023 of 26,500 but um it seems to be on the lower end of these numbers that have been adopted especially in 2025. We used um not even uh we only use 13,000 from what was allocated of the 30,000.

Yeah. We we currently have a rather large list of of roads that need to be okay. I'll stay away from that for you. Uh do we go into buildings and grounds then? And that's for Mr. Dyer. Uh he's up there. You can ask I can ask him. Yeah, that's why they're together. Okay. We're doing the whole

um on page 110. Mr. Dire. Uh we have uh line item 014 which is overtime and um we haven't used anything above $270 of overtime and we're requesting $2,000 for overtime. So I'm not even going to ask the question because I just don't see it being used. It didn't even we didn't even use any of it in 2024. So, I would make a motion to reduce that to $500 from $2,000.

I'll second that. I'm sorry. Who was that? I I see you. Clerk, please take the role. Did you want to remove it totally? Council. No, I'd rather discuss. Okay. I'm sorry. Um, no. I'd rather have I mean, it's 500 bucks. I want to hear what Mr. Saget might have to say. Thank you. Appreciate that. I thought you were asking me. No, I did. I just All right. All right. Yeah, I hear your point. You know, you're valid with your points. 144 0 264. Last year, they requested 2,000. Nothing was really used. Requesting again. Why are we requesting $2,000 again if we didn't even come close to like you said, he's asking for five to push to go to zero, Mr. S?

No, no, just to the five that you said. Oh, 500. I just want to know. I don't even care. The motion's on here then. If you're on five, if you want more, I'll just wondering why the request in 2,000. I may I may vote no. That's what I'm saying. I want to have I want to hear an explanation. Okay. Thank you. When you need the money, you need the money. I can't I don't have a crystal ball as far as an employee having to work overtime or come in early or working on a Saturday or there's cleanup, something happens here at the building on a Saturday or Sunday, that's double time. Um it's not a crystal ball.

Mr. Dyer, if we're looking at the history of this um and we're going from 202023 to 202026 and we use that for the crystal ball period, we exceed $270 for overtime. What was the question? Did we exceed $270 in overtime through that period? Well, it's in there. We know he didn't. It's in there. Yeah, I had that's my answer. Yeah, I still my motion still on the table for it. The motion is still on the table. Um to reduce it. I seconded it. Please take the role. Council member Saborg, yes. Council member Votovich. Uh, no. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freay.

Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes. Council member Kelly. Yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Just cl correct. Yes. Thank you, President Marson. Yes, it is eight yeses, one no. Motion carries. Mr. Dyer, um we have a uh a contractual cleaning company. I think Mrs. Pomeary has it somewhat identified in there that um we have um the cleaning services that are $64,000 and it replaces somebody full-time with employee and benefits, right? on sub account 029 the definitions or I'm sorry the description would be on 111

same page 111

and you have in your description here um what what does this cleaning service do and and what buildings does it do? this building downstairs, the senior center, and the Hiburnia Library. Mopping, cleaning, bathrooms, um things of that nature, housekeeping. And how often do they come? Every day. Every day. So they they vacuum, they use their own products or do we have to provide them with with janitorial products? We provide the products in the garbage bags. They use our our stuff that we buy. Correct. Is there um is there another rate of a contract if they use their own? Another rate?

Yeah. Do they offer to use their own cleaning supplies? And like if I had a cleaning service, they don't come into underneath my sink and then use my materials. Right. The co-op that we're going through contract that we have to use our product. Uhhuh. Now, did we used to have two janitors at one time or was it just one and we replaced it with We had one then we had two. Correct. Was the second one part time? Full-time? I'm sorry. Second one was part time. Parttime. So, what what this cleaning service replaced? What? The full-time or part-time? Part-time. We say part-time. Yeah.

Okay. So, your description is incorrect. Then you make it sound that it says cleaning services replaces full-time employee with benefits, which is not true because if it was part-time, they wouldn't be able to receive benefits, right? Yeah, but it still replaces it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I think it's part time. You know, it's going back beyond this. I'd have to go back. Well, you you you wrote this down. Somebody included this in there. That was accurate at the time. So, yeah, it might be outdated. We did have two full-time guys. Or could there have been a mistake? Well, we can look at Yeah. Yeah, I I mean, we're looking at from all the way back to 2022. I don't see any any additional people that would be noted on there, too.

I'm just guessing because $5,000 I'm not trying to guess. We're talking $65,000, right? I'd have to go back and look. I don't and and when we have uh our our part- timerr that we don't have anymore, they would do vacuuming and and cleaning and stuff like that as well of the buildings. Mr. Dyer. Yes. So, if we have a cleaning service that does all this, why do we also have a janitor then? There's other tasks assigned to them like do they do construction? going to discuss individuals.

I'm not asking about the person. I'm just asking about the position. He does other tasks. Any construction, painting, other tasks. Do we do we subcontract painting out? He does. Like I look at the bathroom, like our males, our male bathroom that we have in the hallway. And I think for the last year and a half or two years, it's been just a mess. Mhm. Um, is there a subcontractor that we would hire or would would an in-house employee take care of that? I don't think an in-house employee is that something that you would then direct somebody to to do in-house.

You would would it be better to this this contract that we have uh with this company for the 65,000? Is there an offering that they do more through like do they offer that in co-op? Could they do like repairs in the bathrooms or Sure, they're all a cart. They can do they can you could add to their contract. Is there any reason why we don't eliminate a position and just have the contractor with no benefits at all and getting it done rather than We're kind of getting into territory here. Yeah. Well, I'm talking about contractual services to Yeah. But as a result, you're you're talking about affecting it.

No, not I'm I'm reading what it says here. No, no, but you said specifically in order to eliminate a position, and we can't talk about that. Well, it's in it's in the description. It says it. I I understand what you're saying, but services replaces one full-time employee with benefits, right? They're not here anymore. Well, they're not here because there used to be two. Now there's one. So, now we're talking. So, it's this in lie of Right. Correct. So, we don't Was it We don't know if it was resignation or termination, retirement. Well, one someone retired and someone transferred,

right? Are you good? I'm just finalizing right before I get the shade tree.

The um the same sub account under 029. We have garbage removal with the municipal building share with the board of education. Correct. The contract is going up. That's why you see the contractual fees have gone up. What was it originally? I don't have that number in front of me. But you requested 15,000. Was there an estimate that that came in to We don't know what it was prior. So, I mean, we see 15,000. Is that an increase from what it was last year? Where do you see 15? I'm just see 15. Still on page 111. Yeah. on page 111 with the description, right? But the overall budget is not going to 15. I understand. I see it.

15,000 15,000 requested. Yeah, but what was it before like in in in 2025 there was a number there because you're requesting something more, but it's not broken down in 029 on the Excel form on page 110. All I can tell you contractually the garbage contract is going up with our shared service with the board of education. I I understand that. But you you don't have any information for what it's going up to, right? No. Yeah, it wasn't. Well, actually, Mr. And with all due respect, with all due respect, this is a perfect example of why we ask for questions ahead of time so he can prepare and have everything. So instead instead of trying

to make a Gotcha moment here, Mr. Morris, but instead of I understand what you're saying, but instead of making Mr. D look like he's unprepared. He could have been a lot more. Well, he is unprepared. Why? Well, no. When you're getting down to minutia like this, you are, but you could have. You don't know the answer to any of the questions of a budget that you put together. Mr. Kelly, you knew enough time to come to here. You sent my boss an email. She comes to my she would have had every piece of information you asked for. Question in the budget meeting. Can you please Mr. D, you were very limited on any information at all as to some of these increases in the Let's not attack our associates, please. Let's not attack our interesting. I asked Interesting. I asked other members they had no problem. If you have a motion, please make it and

generator maintenance on the same thing 029. We have 10,500 request and recommended. What was it before? Don't know. On high-speed internet at Peterson Field and security cameras and high resolutions, did we have cameras before? Before what? Before this this budget where are we going to install install cameras or do we have cameras now? We have cameras now. Okay. Okay. So, what was the need for the $3,000 that's there? Was there an increase in contractual fees or I did not increase. Do you know what the number was before? If you would have asked me a week ago, you don't know. Now, no.

Um, the pest control and municipal building and hiburnia center and library uh 500 a quarter. Um, did that go up? Do you know? That has not gone. That has not gone up. and the dialeride radios and GPS monitoring. Could you describe what that is? We're hoping to to roll out GPS and monitoring all our town vehicles just to see where they are. I guess that's going to be um I'm projecting that's November, December's cost. So next year that'll be a 12 month cost. Okay. So this is a quote I guess that you're uh there the number is based on a quote, correct? And we don't have this before. This is new.

This is new and hopefully it's launching in November. And on the garbage removal, um, is that shared like is it 15,000 with the board of ed and 15,000 for us? It's a shared service. I don't have a contract in front of me. So, you don't know what the library I mean it's not he doesn't he could have had all this information for you. No, that doesn't because the public don't see that backdoor conversation taking place. It's not a backdoor conversation. It's standard procedure. And again, if you wanted to tell the public, Mr. Mr. Mr. Morrison, and I appreciate that you just went and gave somebody an additional $5,000 to a $13,000 increase because they know their job. And I'm only assuming based on this budget and how much of an increase just under 20 grand, but you're information. I'm sorry.

You didn't ask the other person for contract specifics on page 47, line B, of what? I wouldn't expect him to know that and I think it's unreasonable to expect him to. These are only these are six things. Yeah, but the thing is is you're grilling him as if he's on trial. It's okay. Here's what we're gonna do. Mr. Kelly, at this point, if you have a motion, please make it. If not, I'm gonna move on to Mr. Sack because I feel that this is just I'm a big boy. It's okay. I understand that, but it's unnecessary. No, it's not. I just It's real simple. I thought there were easy questions. You all question the budget. Please make a motion if you have one. If not, I'm moving on.

Uh, you know what? If I made a motion, nobody would vote in favor of it anyways, though. So, I'm going to Okay, Mr. Sacket. Thank you, Council President. Um, and thank you, Adam, for the question before about the um provision promotion on page 97, salary adjustments and the explanation. Appreciate that. Just also same thing, the same line right above it, the 13,000 stipens for supervisors was page 97. Also, was that

um numerous amounts. A few um Al, that's you. I I think I I think I had that answer. Just just maintenance. Yeah, that is that is numerous employ numerous employees in the road repair stipens. That's that's throughout the entire that's not contractual or anything like that. Okay. Part of it is part of it is pay for maintenance and CDL license.

Oh yes, that's I'm sorry. That's correct. Part of it is that is all I had. Thank you. Uh, I just have one question. Uh, Mr. Knoff, page 99, just back to asphalt. Something near and dear to my heart. You know, the uh Does that include the uh the chip seal or whatever it was called? Are we going to be What is it? No, that's just what we That's our potholes. That's [ __ ] Asphalt. Are we continuing that program? Yes, we are this year. Where is that? Do you know where that is in here? Okay. Yeah.

All right. You don't like that? And can we ask Mr. Nath, is the chip repair beneficial for the township and the taxpayers saving money and still providing the service and and uh maintaining the roads integrity? He he convinced me.

Aesthetically, it doesn't look good in the beginning. Yeah. However, what you're doing is if this was your own driveway at home, uh you want the Home Depot or your company and they spray your your current driveway. What you're doing is you're projecting the life of your next amount of years. So, when we do the microsurfacing, we're extending the life of of the roadway another 8 to 10 years. I know projected life is anywhere between 10 to 18 years. So if we can add another 10 years on top of that that pushes those out that much further. You uh

in order to build Yeah. You you convinced me on that last time. Yes. Told me to wait the winter and I waited. I was convinced. Yeah. It's a slow process. It does. I agree. Okay. Uh, I am going to make a motion uh to pass uh tab 6 in its entirety with the exception of page 1119 which was already approved. Do I have a second? Second. Council president, real quick, is it when you say tab six, are we including all of the um recreation too with what we were just talking about with the the whole thing? Can we separate that?

Well, we already did recreation. Recreation was done. That was under tab 9. Mr. are not bled over. Um, no, but we were just talking about some other we were just addressing uh with Mr. Dyer on some of those buildings and grounds. Yeah, that's part of Yeah, I would say you want to remove just Can we Can we just remove that section? Uh, which one? The ground. I don't want to I don't want to No, no, I understand. Yeah, obviously know that I'm not in consent of all of that. Page 108. Uh, hold on so we're on the same page here. Buildings and grounds goes from 108 to one

no to 113 to 112. So it's pages 108 to 112 is considered buildings and grounds. Yeah. Could we do that separately just so all right so I resend my first motion. I make a motion to approve uh tab six in its entirety with the exception of the buildings and ground section which we will still vote on and cond reimbursement which was already approved. Do I have a second? Second. Clerk, please take the role. This is the name of this page. Right. Council member Salber eliminating this. Yes. Council member Vitovich. Yes. Council member Freelander. Yes. Council member Roy. Yes. Council member Freeday. Yes. Council member Quinn. Yes.

Council member Kelly. Yes. Council Vice President Sacket. Yes. Council President Marson, you know, I support you, but due to personal reasons, I have to abstain. Oh, if I didn't have to abstain, I would have vote yes. Uh, yes. Is one extension. Motion passes. Okay. Um 108. 108. Um, so I'll make the motion for section 108 buildings and grounds separately. Do I have a sec? Uh, second. I'll second. Clerk, please take the role. I'm sorry, who was the second? Uh for a second. Council member Salberg, yes. Council member Votovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freeday, yes. Council member Quinn,

yes. Council member Kelly, no. Council Vice President Zack, yes. Council President Morrison, yes. It's eight yeses, one no. Motion passes. Gentlemen, thank you. I think you both do a great job and hats off to you for that tap. What do you Is Mr. N still staying though? What's that? No, we have more taps though. I'm talking about Mr. Dyer. Happy early St. Patrick's Day. Uh, all right. We are going to move on to tab 12. Uh, electricity, lighting, telephone, natural gas, heating, fuel, and motor vehicle fuel. Once again, we will start with Councilman Sberg.

Um, Councilman Wtovich, no questions. Uh, Councilman Freellander, Councilwoman Roy, no, no questions. Councilwoman Freed, no questions. Councilman Quinn, no questions. Councilman Kelly, uh, Mrs. Paul Mary on page 166 uh 291. Yep. Um these inc these are just general increases because of uh the service that we get from Verizon. Correct.

And does does the cell tower that we have is Verizon part of that cell tower over by the McY property? They put it in. And does any of that offset any of this? No. No. The revenue that we get or the contractor or services from? It doesn't offset this. Yes, we get revenue general fund, but it's a revenue line, not not what we call an appropriation credit, which would be if we were to say overpay a bill. Company reimbures us for that overpayment, then it goes back in the budget. But a revenue line is separate from the appropriations.

Okay. And then on uh on line 292, computer lines, you just have uh Verizon business fios average monthly cost three and a quarter. But um it looks like we really haven't had anything expend over 2,300 bucks. So just check up to date because what happens is these bills come in for December, they come in in January.

No, I understand that. So, I mean, obviously in 2023 and 2024 would would reflect um those January bills at that time of only 2,200 bucks or 2,300 bucks. And it seems that we're expended through um December 31st of 2025. If we go by your analysis of $325 per month, it still puts us under 2500 bucks. It isn't. Right. It is. Yeah. So, you have $3,900 that were here. Um, if we brought that down to a $2,700 number, would that be? Yeah.

Okay. So, um, I make a motion to bring it down to $2,700. From from 3,900, page 166, 292. Second. Thank you. From I'm sorry, from 39 to 27 is what I said, right, Miss Primary? Okay. Uh, 3900 to 2700. Yeah. Okay. Uh, there is a first and a second. Cler, please take the role. Council member Sberg, no. Council member Votovich, yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freeday, no. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly,

yes. Council Vice President Sackett, no. Council President Marson, no. That is five yeses, four nos. Motion carries.

And and um Mrs. Palmary, uh just double check on everything here. Um a lot of these additional expenses following uh that page of 168 down. I mean, we really have no control on any of this. like we're not going to rally and make a resolution telling JCP now to lower their fees. Right. Right.

That's not going to happen. Though we can put it out there um of our unsatisfactory um service that we're get or pricing. But the one thing I do have is on an account on page one 170 or that's the that's the description. So we have heating, fuel, oil, average monthly expense of 27 26.50. Um where is the location? What buildings are actually a question for Dave. I don't know which

because we're natural gas, right? Wherever we're available for natural gas, we Right. That's oil. Is there a reason why we don't have gas over there? gas. Right. Right. Um, when's the last time we explored that with uh the clingers over natural gas? Is this something maybe we can explore again? I mean, the savings is dramatic, right, for the conversion?

I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, not at all. Um, uh, so when we talked about the road garage, um, is there a a shared cost And and that's with the board of education. Who has more vehicles?

Okay. So, you believe that we get the better end of the bargain? Okay. And the buildings are the same size, too.

I know I've talked to you before about waste oil heaters, uh, because I I have friends in the business that have them, and I they do love them. Okay. And then um maybe just you can continue on this too. Um on 172 160 and 161 um again this budget was prepared to what we have going on right now with Iran. Um the the projected amount is because of the increase in pricing or because we're adding more equipment, more um uh uh vehicles and trucks and stuff like that.

I'm sorry. Price increase. Okay. I don't have gasoline for Is that Costco pricing? That's cheap. I'm only kidding. That is crazy cheap. Yeah. Uh that's better than I thought. And uh Are you good? Yeah, I think that's it. I don't I everything has been answered on that. Thank you for that, Council VP.

I have nothing. Thank you. Um I just want to go back to the to the diesel and the and the heating fuel page. Uh 170 172. I are we confident that who knows how high is high right now with everything that's going on. We spent 130 I'm sorry we spent 154,000 in 2024 right when prices were lower and it was higher. Right now we're only asking for 130,000. Are we confident that we're asking for enough? So what happens if we if we go over the 130,000? What happens? So if we go over 130 and I still have the money within the utilities budget, which is tab 12, I can I can

use it from other sources, it's not enough and I need to put a transfer resolution before you to adopt to take it from some other line within the budget. Okay. If it's like, you know, if it's not astronomical, if it's right, if it's, let's just say it's $20,000, I would I would probably have to pull it from a few lines and transfer it in with your approval. So again, if we go up to 20, even 20 30%, I mean, you're talking, you know, 25 $30,000 is not going to put us in a really bad position. It's not going to put us where we need to pass an emergency resolution, which is understood. That was still have 9 million in reserves, right? It would be a transfer resolution. Sure. Okay. Um, I make a motion to pass uh section 12 in its entirety. Can I have a second? Second. Cler, please take the role. Council member Sberg,

yes. Council member Voytovich? Yes. Council member Freelander, yes. Council member Roy, yes. Council member Freed, yes. Council member Quinn, yes. Council member Kelly, yes. Council Vice President, second, yes. Council President Marson, yes. It's nine yeses. Motion carries. Okay. Uh, tab 21, water utility. Seat's all warmed up for you. Uh, Councilman Sberg, I have nothing. Councilman Watovich, no questions. Uh, Councilman Freedellander,

uh, Councilwoman Royick, no. Uh, Councilwoman Freed, no questions. Uh, Councilman Quinn, no question. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Kelly, uh, 218. Uh, we have, um, salary addressed in some promotions. I don't know, Mr. Sack, if that's something you wanted to jump on and I would pass. It's your time. Not. No. um under that uh that line that we have there, is that dedicated for multiple employees or just one?

I was going to be for multiple because um we got people that are just finishing up their licensing that's required to have not only for CBL but they're licensing based on the it was a requirement for the position. Um correct. So you have you have backup operator what I am instead of match what I had last and that was a requirement for the position when you first got here. So we're bringing the salary then up to what was um advertised. Um it sound like what I'm saying is that we did we did we hire do we hire individuals that don't have the requirements of the job?