Planning Commission - Special Meeting

body. Welcome to the town of Losat's planning commission meeting of March 31st, 2006. I would like to remind everyone that tonight's meeting is a continuation of the March 25th planning commission meeting. I will now call the role. Commissioner Stump, welcome back. here. Commissioner Sordy here. Vice Chair Bernett here. Commissioner Bernett here. Commissioner Mayor here.

I am here. And Commissioner Thomas is absent. Please stand if you're able as Commissioner Mayor leads us in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. As the planning commission conducts the meeting this evening, we encourage active participation by the public, which is essential to democracy and the important work of the planning commission. Public input is very much welcomed and always considered. The public can participate in a couple ways. Pri prior to a meeting, written comments about agenda items may be submitted to staff. And during the meeting, there are two opportunities for members of the public to participate. First, during the verbal communication period, an individual may speak. Tonight is a little different. The um that will be on the topic. And second, during the public hearing portion of tonight's meeting, any member of the public may speak about the agenda item. You will be advised of the times when you speak at the on these items.

Commissioner Burch. Yes. Um we there's one member of the public who wanted to speak about the notice for this meeting and um since that is due it's a issue of the notice only um that person is going to speak under verbal communications.

Thank you. I would like to remind everyone that comments tonight should be related to the land use aspect of the application. And since we are picking up from last week, I will remind you that each person wishing to address the platinum commission about this agenda item will have three minutes to speak. If you plan to speak this evening and you agree with what the previous speaker may have said, I would like to ask that you simply state that you agree with the previous speaker and then provide any new information. In addition, I ask that everyone is respectful of each other and the speakers. No clapping or booing after someone speaks. If you agree with the previous speaker, you can raise your hand instead of clapping and disrespectful language will not be tolerated. Finally, we will be taking a short break at 8:00 this evening. If you do wish to address the planning commission this evening, please fill out a speaker card and hand it to staff. They will make sure that I get it. Um, and if you are on Zoom, please raise your hand on Zoom. When you are called to speak, please come up to the podium. speak directly into the microphone as this meeting is being recorded. State your name for the record or you can indicate that you are speaking anonymously. We will now begin with the verbal communications portion of the meeting during which members of the public are invited to address the commission. It looks like we have one verbal communication from Earth, the cop. I'm supposed to pass these out.

Okay. I am speaking on the 10day rule uh that you know you're you're supposed to uh publicize this in in a newspaper and I've talked to you guys about this before and I looked through the newspaper and the only tape thing this week's newspaper the only thing was on the on violations and uh you know the crime reports and um I was brought up Catholic and stuff like that and this one just said that West Valley Muslim Association, you know, it's in the paper. It said 10 to 15 vehicles entered at property around 6:20 a.m. before the the thing. And you know, I when I went to um if you you made a mistake, you had to go to to confessional and uh if if I was a cop or and we had to say, "Hey, father." in to the to the confessional and and he's supposed to be the head guy and I can't just see you know these that he you know what what do you just say to you know you you broke the rule and you know all the Muslims should have to say three ma three male harries you know type of thing so it's it's kind of a joke but I you know I I think that in general the nor the the public doesn't see this only the two sides, you know, one side's bringing in their their their followers and the others, you know, the the town has, you know, I sent in and town has like 12 people that came in and the other one had a lot more and there was a couple neutrals and I try to stay neutral because I know that you're the the town council has to do that. So, if you can, you know, just note on big ticket items that that we should do a 10-day rule because I think the public in general has to um abide by, you know, everybody should abide by some rules.

Okay. This and the flowers are for the other side this time because they're, you know, so thank you. Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? If if the um commission would like, I could speak to the notice for this meeting. Okay, thank you. Um, so the original meeting was noticed for March 25th and then that meeting was continued to a date certain which is this evening. And when that occurs, there's no legal requirement to renotice the meeting. Thank you for the clarification. Mr. Pollson, is there anyone on Zoom wishing to speak during verbal communications?

There are two hands raised, uh, but they're likely for the actual item. Okay. We want to wait and just call on them soon. The first I'll let talk is uh Allan.

Hello. Can you hear me? Yes.

Yes, we can hear you. Okay, great. Hello, my name is Alan Maybrook and I'm a member of an interfaith group through my synagogue congregation Shirhadash in Los. I'm sorry, chairperson. Um, if this is related to the topic on tonight's agenda, it should occur after the staff presentation. Okay. All right. Yeah, if it is related to the um item, I will call on you shortly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. Moving on. We have no items on tonight's consent calendar. So, we will now move on to the public hearing with item number one. This is a continuation from our previous meeting and we will begin with further public comments. I would like to remind you that if you spoke during the last meeting, you cannot speak tonight. As a reminder, this is to consider a request for approval to modify an existing conditional use permit for expanded hours of operation in an institution for relig religious observation. the West Valley Muslim Association on property zoned R-18 located at 16769 Farley Road APN424-21-062 categorically exempt pursuant to SQA guideline section 15301 existing facilities the property owner is West Valley Muslim Association Osour Gaffur and the who is the president and the applicant is Raz Mo He didn't and I didn't write it down. So, okay. Our project planner is Jocelyn Schupman. Miss Scheman, is there any additional staff information for this evening? Um, staff would just like to report that there was an addendum and desk item that were both published after the staff report packet. Um, but that completes staff's presentation.

Do we have any questions for staff at this time? Really?

All right. Thank you. So, we'll now reopen the public portion of the public hearing and move on to the speaker cards. If you haven't already, if for new people coming in, please go ahead and fill out a card and give it to staff and they'll make sure that we get this. Um, I'm going to start with a couple cards from people that actually um we had their cards left over from the last meeting. I'm not sure if they left. So, I want to make sure if they are back, they get an opportunity to speak. Oh, thanks. The first is Secret Jacobson. All right. The second is Kylie Clark. I don't think I saw her here. And the last is Tariq Abed. Okay. All right. just want to make sure they have an opportunity. So then the next um two speakers will be Ann Griffin and Rebecca Garza. Okay, I'll move her. That's fine. So then Rebecca Garza and Louise Leperon. That's my maiden name I haven't heard in a long time. I've lived in Lascatus all my life. I was born at Lasatas Community Hospital. My dad taught at Lascatus High. And over the years, of course, seen lots and lots of changes. I care very deeply about the people and homes and organizations and businesses that make this town special. What we are discussing tonight is really not about religion or hate. It's about fairness, livability, and neighborhood

balance. It's pragmatic. No school, restaurant, bar, theater, or any other entity has ever been allowed the amount of time and scope of hours that are being requested. actually they're already being used. There's a good reason for that. It's just not possible to live in peace with that volume of activity at your house for that amount of time. I did look at the website and it's amazing what they offer their community. We all know that. We heard that last week. We know that. But it happens to be in a neighborhood where people live who have spent decades paying for their homes and building a place of peace and family. I live by Fiser. Twice a day. I know I can't really get in or out of my driveway. And twice a year I know there's back to school night and the end of the school year. And I know I can't have a party. That's 10 minutes twice a day and two nights a year. This is on such a huger scale. The building was never designed or even imagined for the scope and scale of what is happening. The capacity, the constant use, it's already operating beyond compliance even at this time. So, I'm asking the commission to protect what makes this town livable, to hold everyone fairly and respectfully to the same standards that preserves our neighborhoods and sense of community. If you are to allow this, it will never be less. It will only be more. And it sets a precedent in our community for this scale of time and capacity in a neighborhood that will never go back. So, it's a permanent decision. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? No.

Hello, commission and staff. My name is Louise Lefron and I raise my family in Los Gados. I agree with everything that the pre previous speaker said, but I do want to add that I in order to understand more fully what options could be considered and I was in my desperation to help my family, I went to visit the mosque at 1755 Catherine Street in Santa Clara, which is zone quasi residential to inquire how they obtain harmony with their residential neighbors. The Masid Anure Mosque shared with me that number one, they do not operate after 1000 p.m. year round to allow predictable and consistent hours for sleep and quiet enjoyment for their neighbors. And number two, they prioritize their neighbors concerns to preserve and protect the neighborhood character and address the concerns with meaningful solutions and not plate them with one of their uninforcable items like, "Well, how about some cones?" And additionally, the Midnure Mosque share that they hold all Ramadan and large events at a Scott Street location, which is zoned industrial to further protect their neighbors. The Catherine Street Moss leverages the religion's built-in flexibility for its neighbors, for its members, and encourages them to pray at home with family for any prayer, especially the pre-drawn pre-dawn prayer as a valid and acceptable practice for a daily prayer. This fosters kindness and respect towards the neighbors and supports sen sincerity and devotion over physical location. I too would like to ask the talents planning commission and the

applicant WVMA to reconsider the intensification of use application specifically to set less extensive hours of operation to be in balance with the neighbors mental health and basic physical needs sleep. I urge you to deny the current terms and conditions of the cup and ask that the town planning commission design and respond with balance and realistic conditions for the well-being of the residents in the Farley Road neighborhood and a sanctuary for the members of the mosque. Thank you very much. Thank you. Please stay up. There's a question for you, Commissioner Bernett.

Yes, and thank you for coming tonight. There was a question that came up at our last meeting on St. Katherine at St. Katherine Street and Mos Mosque. So, could you describe to me the the street? Are there sidewalks there? Are there lights? Is it a wide wider boulevard or or Okay. Yes, there are sidewalks and it is a residential area. There are houses right across from the mosque that face the mosque. It's um it's a it's a smaller building. is like a church actually and then they have a huge parking lot there. So um and um yeah there are um street lights. Okay, are there any other questions? Thank you. Our next two speakers are Truck Dam and Brad Kurs. Hi um member of the planning committee. My name is Shrek Dam. I have lived in F road about 20 years. Four houses from the WMA. We love a quiet neighborhood where our children could walk and ride a bike to school and we walk our dogs at night without a fear of running by over by car. There are 29 families on Farley Road and 21 of them more than 70% of them have signed petition opposing the U WVMA CPU modification request. Of the three blocks around surrounding the WVMA, there are 70 families signing the petition opposing the request. So our neighborhood is diverse and welcoming. That's probably why the WVMA members like the neighborhood. Um you know currently the CP already have 14 hours and they want 20 hours after 24 hours. The neighborhood overwhelmingly against extension of the hours. Last week here a wonderful clergy from

the Presbyterian church came in support of the WVMA request extended hours. The church operate I think believe 8 am to 5:00 p.m. And but the question I ask is if WA request is granted could the church operate to midnight? The another church St. Mary Catholic Church has an event every October for 3 days and they operate to 10 p.m. But if we grant it here can they ask for a whole week long event for two midnight? Calgary church only Calvary Church is only about few blocks from us. They have wonderful program that run until 9:00 p.m. If these things approve, can they ask for that the operation to run till midnight? So I think that's the decision by the planning committee will create precedents that affect not only our neighborhood but affect the whole town of Los Gapos. So this what the planning committee wants. This what the town of Gallas wants. And lastly, having hundreds and possibly a thousand of attendees in residential zone with small street and no sidewalk is a safety hazard. Um the current and new request CPU do not have limitation on number of attendees. God forbid if an emergency occur either the person can respond or the people can vacate. Somebody going to get hurt. Would the town of Los Garos be responsible if they allow the code exemptions? So in summary, our neighborhood is diverse and welcoming. We welcome WVMA members but not for 20 hours out of 24 hours. The request if the request u is approved it creates precedence affecting the whole town of Los Gados. And lastly, the code exemptions is allow it could pose enormous financial liability to the town of Los Scatos.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Commissioner Stump, what are your greatest concerns uh about the use as it relates let's speak directly to Farley Road since that's the main thoroughare. So what are your main concerns about the use and and added hours of operation?

So the the town the street is have no sidewalk small streets and I I think it was the whole Jehovah Witness there before it's only a few hundred people attending. I think according to plan they're planning to have hundreds maybe up to 1300 people attending. I have no idea if something happened how can they vacate? I mean the people live across the street how how they get out. I mean that that's my concern is because I live up the street um near Jack in the Box. I'm fine. If something happen I'm running out. But but know Bill and Marie live right across from them. If there's if there's a emergency I don't know how she can get out. I think that's my biggest biggest concern of course and the the the quietness you know the party you know Kim and live right next door so I mean it's affecting the well-being and the health because I'm up the street I'm just saying look I my main concern is safety first and then the next part is just the mental health aspect.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions for the speaker? Thank you. Good evening. My name is Brad Kirst. I'm a 16-year resident of Lascatus. Um my wife and I, our two children went to Blossom Hill. They went to Fiser. They graduated LGHS. Um we live on Frank Avenue about 250 yards from WVMA. Uh the neighbors met with WVMA on uh for two hours this past Sunday. Uh while the meeting was polite, uh no real progress was made. I was not in attendance as I had a family birthday obligation. But I'd like to give a brief summary of that meeting. Despite being aware of how the intensification of their facilities use negatively impacts our neighborhood and the peaceful enjoyment of our homes, there was really no significant concessions offered. They did offer to remove the right-hand only turn sign uh to redirect traffic towards LGB or Lascats Boulevard and to distribute traffic cones for neighbors to place in front of their homes to protect their own their own street parking. We find these suggestions inadequate. Cars turning left and right out of the parking lot will snarl traffic even more. Cones don't address public safety concerns regarding speeding. uh nor do they resolve the facility's 41% parking deficit. This will only push more traffic deeper into the neighborhoods. WVMA expressed a litany of challenges for originally choosing the Farley Road location, suggesting there was um and and still is no suitable alternative location. But their challenges are of are of their own making. It bought the property

knowing the zoning restrictions in a residential neighborhood. Founder Razie and board member Bilal both have extensive experience as former Saratoga public officials and at the time they didn't see the zoning as an issue. Given their professional backgrounds, it's difficult to understand they didn't anticipate these issues. This raises concerns about whether there was always an expectation or plan to circumvent the town laws at the expense of the neighbors. Considering the flagrant CUP and town code violations over the past several years, this should be addressed. Additionally, there appears to be no reason they cannot operate within the boundaries of the existing CUP and an attempt to restore the neighborhood to its prior condition. The takeaway from this meeting is that WVMA leadership does not appear to respect the neighborhood, the residents, our rights as neighbors, or or care how the cup how this CUP modification, if approved, will violate the town's quiet hours code and impact our health and well-being. Their focus seems solely on their own benefits with little regard for the surround surrounding community. We ask you to deny this cup modification request and instead institute a modification that'll protect neighbors and allow both parties to coexist on Farley Road harmoniously. This is a this is a key point. This is not about religion. This is about zoning and this is why we need your help.

Thank you. Commissioner Stump, what sort of overflow parking do you see on Frank Avenue? We periodically through the year, our whole street going all the way down Frank wraps around as you may know. Uh we see cars up and down all of Frank. Can you describe Frank Avenue? Does it have sidewalks and gutters or is it similar to Farley Road?

No, it does. Um it's broken up, but coming off of LGB coming essentially toward 17. Uh first there are no sidewalks and then there are sidewalks. Once you cross Isora, there are sidewalks on on where we live on just off essentially Frank and Isora. We have sidewalks on both sides with street lights. So, it's somewhat of a patchwork on Frank. Correct. Thank you. Any other questions for the speaker? Thank you. Thank you.

The next two speakers I have, it says Rusty Dern but represented by Mendy Wellington and then Andrea Shelton. All right.

Yeah, we're not allowed to talk, unfortunately. So, I'll just move on to the next couple cards. Oh, Andrea.

Good evening. I'm speaking on behalf of Ununice Kim. I'm going to read her statement. Dear Los Gatus Planning Commission, I live on Farley Road about one and a half blocks from WVMA. As I have told WVMA constituents who have come to my door, we have been very happy with them in the neighborhood. They have shown us kindness and communicated with us about upcoming events. Given our location, we feel we are insignificantly impacted by gatherings. I reviewed the 32526 planning commission meeting online and was amazed by the outpouring of support for WVMA, not only by its constituents, but other community and religious organizations. This is truly the meaning of community, stepping up to support your neighbor even when the issue does not directly impact you. So, I am writing this letter to support the neighbors who live closest to WVMA and therefore are most impacted by the potential extension of operating hours. When I listened to their current experience of light and noise pollution with current hours, I was shocked. I did not until that moment imagine what it must be like to live with those with the noise and lights during expected quiet hours. Please imagine you are trying to fall asleep and then you hear random beeps and see flickers of light. And keep in mind, some of us are more sensitive than others and will hear things that don't trigger the the decibel limit. If we each stepped into those shoes of the residents who live closest to WVMA, we would understand why they do not support the extended operating hours. The residents want to be able to sleep and rest in their homes during the hours that we all expect. More than ever, medical literature shows that restorative sleep is essential to one's health, well-being, and longevity. Please listen to their requests and allow them to get the peace and rest we all deserve in our own homes. Sincerely,

Ununice Kim. Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Thank you. Um, the next two cards I have is a Margaret I'm going to say K because I'm I'm not sure on how to pronounce your last name and Yasmin Darian. Good evening members of the commission. My name is MargaretWami. I live on Frank Avenue near Isora in the block adjacent to WVMA. I value all of our neighbors, including our Muslim neighbors. I also value the peaceful character of our little neighborhood, which is one of the main reasons my husband and I chose it some 23 years ago. I find the submission of a noise study which was carried out by the salter company at the request of WVMA used data that was taken between January 31st and February 11th 2025. Ramadan in that year was from February 28th until March 29th. Additionally, the study was conducted only on one evening from 8:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. and on one morning from 9 to 10:00 a.m. Because the proposed modifications represent changes in the tranquility of our R1 district, we believe that verification before approval is the most responsible and defensible path forward for the town. To ensure this commission is making a decision based on the most accurate real world current data, we respectfully request that three specific benchmarks be completed and verified before a final vote is considered. First, we have carefully reviewed the sound report uh provided by the applicant's attorney, but it leaves critical gaps as I mentioned um the hours and the dates uh when it was conducted. So, it did not

come close to capturing the actual acoustic impact of a pre-season um a peak season rather 1,200 potentially person event. We are asking for a new unbiased noise study undertaken at some planned instance when the Muslim association will have 800 or more in attendance. Second, we ask for a comprehensive fire marshall audit. We must have empirical proof, not just projections, that our narrow residential streets and the facility itself can handle this massive increase in capacity. And third, and finally, we ask the commission to complete a full audit of CUP compliance. Any trust in a party's compliance with future agreements is built on the success of the current one. So, we ask the town to audit and resolve all previously and currently reported violations to ensure that the existing CUP is being fully upheld. You cannot effectively mitigate a new expansion if the current rules are not yet being followed. We are simply asking for proof before permission. This ensures that the commission's eventual decision is rooted in evidence and protects the long-term integrity of the town. Um, to quote a letter you received from one of my neighbors this week regarding our um our homes and the environment that we value and um makes our homes um very desirable places to live. the commission is effectively forcing a permanent disclosable nuisance onto our property records. Um so um we're just asking the commission to hold off on voting, get

more information, um do full audits of the situation and um there's no rush. So thank you for your time and for your dedication to our community. Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Commissioner Sordy, have you seen a a fire marshall audit before? I have not personally.

And could you articulate what's included in a fire marshall audit? I would imagine it would um involve um safety um numbers in in particular um capacity numbers and you know how the department could get trucks in and out um how emergency medical um personnel could be brought in and people could be evacuated quickly. I'm guessing Okay. Yeah. I was just following up because I I was curious to know if you'd seen it as kind of a standard report. I haven't seen any report going by that name before. So, but I understand the issues that are in play. So, thank you. Yes, Commissioner Bernett.

Yes. Thank you. Um, thank you for coming tonight. So, uh, so what you're saying that the the failure should comply with the current 2020 cup highlights exactly why a modification should not go through due to the non-compliance issues of the present CUP. Right. Exactly. Thank you. Any further questions? No. Thank you.

Uh hello and good evening. My name is Yasmine. Uh and I live in Farley Road. I'm a healthcare worker for almost 35 years and is still working. I take pride working with people throughout my career with respect, understanding, empathy, and compassion. In 2000, my husband and I bought our house, our current house, investing in our future and raising our family in a neighborhood that gave us peace and safety. We even abided by the city planning rules when we remodeled our house in 2015. At the end of each working day, I looked forward to going home to find my comfort and solace. Regrettably, since the opening of WVMA, due to constant heavy traffic and parking issues, especially during the month of Ramadan, it has created anxiety and my neighborhood no longer feels the same peaceful and residential neighborhood that it was before. As a Miran Iranian American, I was born and raised in a Muslim family and my mother still prays daily. I'm also very familiar with prayers time and if I grew up in a neighborhood that it did have a mosque, but the hours of operations were also sensitive to the neighborhood needs with respect to opening and closing times. This allowed the neighborhood to continue live harmony and peace. I'm aware that prayers during Ramadan not just limit it into mosques and it can be done in privacy of homes at work and schools. It is so disheartening to know that the city of Lascatus didn't do the needed study evaluating the needs of both the neighborhood residents and WVMA for compatibility assuring safety for all parties of concern. We as the residents of the neighborhood be pay mortgage, property taxes, and rent. I'm

asking the city planning office of Losatus to reject the application for CUP to maintain neighborhood safety, curtailing heavy traffic, parking, and excessive noise. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Thank you. The next two speakers are Rich Stevens and Bill Haft. Good evening, commissioners. Um, thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. I first want to apologize in advance in case any of my statements offend anyone. That is not my intent. I welcome all people to Lasatus. That said, this conversation and decision should not be about religion. With the facility in the middle of a residential neighborhood zoned R18, this decision should only be about the ability and rights of all people in Lascatus to peacefully exist and sleep in their own homes. From 1990 to 2018, the Jehovah's Witness Kingdom was at the facility and caused no issues. WV WVMA knew the town's codes and ordinances when they purchased the facility in 2018. The original cut for WVMA was issued March 11th, 2020. The applicant did not bring up the letter from the town attorney dated July 5th, 2024 that showed that the facility was already in violation of the conditional use permit for multiple reasons. This new request, among other things, would increase the number of allowable attendees from 25 up to 850 or more and worse extend the hours to extremely unreasonable level. According to their website, Farley Road is the main WVMA campus and services starting as early as 4:16 a.m. and per the application could could go as late as midnight, 7 days a week. Quiet time for the neighbors could be as little as 3 to four hours a night. No business or facility should be allowed to disturb and disrupt their neighbors like this. All other businesses, including athletic clubs and other religious facilities in Lascatus, abide by the town's code, noise limits, and operating hours. If the need to is

to support these hours, then the goal should be to find an alternate suitable facility in Lascatus to house this mosque, which to me should not be near homes. If it is to appease the neighbors and allow them to sleep, then this cup should not be approved. Clearly, no person or religion should be discriminated against. Nor though should any religion be given preferential treatment at the cost of others. For the residents in the neighborhood and the precedents this may set, I urge you to deny this request. Thank you for your service.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Thank you. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Bill Ha. Um, and for the past 40 plus years, I've lived uh across the street, directly across the street from the uh uh West Valley Muslim Association building. Um, first I want to acknowledge that the association has generally been a good neighbor. um the impacts that my wife and I have personally experienced um such as traffic flow, headlights into our homes and evening activity. Um we've been able to manage and we've adapted as best we can. However, the proposal before you represents a significant change expanding the operating hours from roughly 15 hours a day to 20 hours a day. Um, more than a 30% increase. Importantly, this expansion reaches into very early mornings beginning at 4:30 and extends late into the night. This isn't just a minor adjustment. It changes the character of the activity in our neighborhood from something timelmited to something that is nearly continuous. My wife and my concern is not with the organization but with the intensity and the duration of use. Um currently the approved capacity is approximately as I understand it 680 people. Um if ours are expanded this substantially while keeping the same maximum capacity, the cumulative impact, especially traffic

noise and lighting, will increase significantly. I would ask for consideration of a more balanced approach. If operating hours are increased by roughly a third, it's reasonable to consider a corresponding reduction in peak usage. For example, 15 to 20% reduction in maximum maximum occupation would help offset the expanded hours and reduce the intensity of traffic surges. This type of adjustment would allow the association to expand access for its members while still protecting the livability of the surrounding neighborhood. In closing, I would support uh reasonable conditions that reflect the scale of the change being proposed. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. Are there any questions? Commissioner Stomp, since you are literally right across from the mosque and I asked this question of one of the other neighbors, what are your major concerns about um the the the traffic running back and forth on Farley Road?

It's kind of sometimes it's kind of like I I'll the water the water drip torture treatment. I mean, it's light after light after light. Um, one of my neighbors did an example. She had a flashlight and she fl turned the flashlight in your face over and over again. So, so that happens. So, what do we do? We we stay in the back part of our house. We close our shades and and we adapt. Uh, that's what we've that was what we've done. Um, so, um, we've gotten to know our neighbors pretty well, the the Muslim folks. We've worked pretty well with them. Um, and then my wife the other night was coming home from a meeting. She parked out front to try to get out of the car and the traffic was all over the place and cars were were trying to move and to go up and down and she was she was concerned about the uh about the impact of the traffic. So, it's just numbers and and major use. And then the thing that we don't know about is what kind of use are we going to experience once all of the CUP is is approved. Is is it going to double, triple, quadruple, or is it going to go down? Where where is it going to go?

How recent was your wife's experience? Uh, this was during Ramadan. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Any other questions for the speaker? Thank you. Our next two speakers are Mary Hogan and Greg Slack. Good evening, commissioners, and thank you for your time and attention both last Wednesday and tonight. My name is Mary Hogan. I've lived on Farley Road since 1992, 34 years. I live in the house next to the previous speaker, Bill. So, I'm across the street from the facility. I am here to respectfully ask the commission to deny this request of a modification of an existing CUP. Before WVMA, the property operated as a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall under a CUP for decades. During the 28 years I lived here at that time, I experienced no meaningful impacts. Similarly, from WVMA's approval in 2020 through early 2023, I did not notice significant impacts. My concerns began in 2024 and have continued since. To be fair, I've made efforts to communicate directly. When I raised concerns about late night engine noise, WVMA leadership responded and I did see improvement. I appreciated that. But other issues persist and they directly affect daily life. Parking has been more of an ongoing problem. Cars have blocked our driveway, our mailbox, and can each week line both sides of the street. While there have been attempts to address this, like placing cones, and making announcements, these measures are inconsistent and unreliable. More importantly, there are safety

concerns. Just this past Friday, March 27th, a flatbed a flatbed tow truck was parked blocking a fire hydrant while the driver went into the WVMA. By the time I was able to report it, I was told no incident could be reported after the fact. It had to be reported in the moment. Finally, I want to speak of the town's goal of maintaining peace and tranquility in a residential zone. At Wednesday's meeting, many speakers described WVMA as a sanctuary, a place of peace, restoration, and quiet. Those are the same words I used to describe my home. I feel very fortunate to have a quiet hours home neighborhood, and I believe everyone deserves that. to be able to rest without disruption from late night noise, early activity, or the impact of large volumes of vehicles. For that reason, I respectfully ask the commission to deny this request of modification of an existing cup. Thank you all for your time.

Thank you. Are there any questions? Commissioner Stump,

what are the greatest impacts you've experienced related to traffic and use? So, I would say the lights. I am the neighbor who said, "I'd like to stand up here for a minute with a flashlight." Um, I would say the parking on Farley Road. There is no sidewalks. There is no gutters. If you put a car on my side of the street and a car on the other side of the street and then try to drive a car in each direction, it's tight. I don't know what it would be like for a firet truck or a police car or an ambulance. I have had cars quite regularly uturning. I can say that 2024 and 2025 Ramadan was much busier. And I can say that 2026 began a news van parked in front of Bill's house and 2026 became much quieter and much I as far as cars as far as talking. There are a lot of people who do walk from their cars or the neighborhood to attend activities at the mosque. I think the safety of anyone walking that road at night. I thought a great idea, but I don't know the town's money would just be to put another street light. There's only a street light at the corner of Loscatus Boulevard and Farley. And the next one is at the exit of the WVMA. I believe that's seven to eight house fronts. I don't know the

footage, the yardage, but it's dark. I think could we have the yellow line down the middle of the road and the white lines on the side like are currently on Flint Ridge? I think could we do like downtown parking spaces where they're deline deline you know what word I'm trying to say um I think I have seen both the facility website and other cups that have done contact of overflow parking extra facility beyond the facilities parking someone mentioned that they have agreement or whatever it is with uh Affordable Treasures on Los Gatus Boulevard. Right next to Affordable Treasures is the Barnett dental facility. They have parking. Could that be a possibility? Next to that is or on that road is the city bank which has a parking lot. Yes, it's a 10 minute, five minute walk, but that would be if they initiated shuttles, that's still a twominut, three minute shuttle. There's also a facility that is the the wellness center. It's a building that's brown with green and it's right on Losatus Boulevard. It's next to Happy Hound. It also has parking. So, could that be a possibility of excess or overflow parking rather than on Farley Road? I'm looking for answers. I'm looking for ways to try to have our neighbors at the WVMA stay. It makes me want to cry.

Thank you. Thank you very much. You've done your homework. Oh, no. Please come back. You have another I'm sorry, Commissioner Mayor. I was just wondering if you could elaborate a bit. You said that from 2020 to 2023 it was fine and then from 23 to 24 something changed. Co COVID Okay. So, so in 2020 CO began in 2023 CO ended. No one was going anywhere. Then we were able to go to places 2024, 2025, 2026. Got it.

Any other questions? Thank you. My name is Greg Slack and thank you for the opportunity to speak. It is wonderful to see democracy at work. I am a 60-year resident attending Dave's Avenue Fiser Lasaz High. I have a large community of family and friends in this town, some who live in the neighborhood being discussed tonight. For this reason, I feel obligated to comment on the proposed conditional use permit application. My 40-year career has focused on all facets of real estate development. And at to this point I need to make known that in 1993 I along with my consulting firm personally assisted the Muslim community association and their use permit at Scott Boulevard in the city of Santa Clara. This facility was required to address the limitations of their smaller mosque in the quasi residential area. I also represented Burger King in its goal to locate on the northwest side of Lasass Boulevard, but was unsuccessful due to the intensification of the property activity and its impact on the same adjacent neighborhood we are discussing tonight. Over the years, I've seen the town of Lascatus represent and assist neighborhoods facing traffic and noise issues. I've seen Oldtown's intensity increase to the point of the town placed permit parking on University Avenue and these ancient side streets. As it relates to the new and amended

permits, I have witnessed the town requiring applicants to complete studies, install adjacent improvements to streets, sidewalks, and intersections. With the documented traffic noise and use violations associated with the application in front of you, I'm thoroughly perplexed as to why the application has not included the same level due diligence, corrective actions, and clear restrictions as all other applicants face. This application in its current form cannot be approved. The permit does not address the applicant's impact on the neighborhood. It does not provide infrastructure improvements to address documented traffic problems. It does not address documented noise violations. And it does not address past and current permit violations. Please, I request that you continue to uphold the town standards and protect this neighborhood. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Thank you. Uh, next is Lorine Heepworth, I think. And Lley, I'm not Lorraine, but she's my wife and asked me to fill in for her. My name is Scott Hipworth. I'm one of 10 signitories on a statement that you received from the Lascatos miniserino interfaith council on behalf of the Muslim friends that are part of our council. As someone who's loved Los Gatos for 48 years, I want to just thank you guys for what you do, for your patience and your uh personal striving to think through things and listen carefully. I I want to thank the Muslim people who've been here in the last meeting spoke so fervently obviously expressing their hearts feelings very sensitively. I think we all came away with a a great feeling of admiration for them, respect and love for them as neighbors. And I also want to thank the neighbors We've heard their stories and may hear more and feel a lot of compassion, a lot of empathy for the impositions, the hardships,

the difficulties that uh they have personally experienced recently. We've observed that uh you've heard a number of very specific things from missing sidewalks and a number of things. You've got them all written down that are within the domain of the town to take care of somehow. My main message is to thank everybody here, all these wonderful Muslims and these wonderful neighbors for the very respectful manner, the contentionfree way that virtually everybody has conducted themselves at this microphone. given the opportunity in this wonderful land of ours to share their feelings in this way. So, thanks to everybody. Congratulations on your assignment. We look forward to you seriously pondering through this matter and rendering a a decision that will be the best for everyone. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Right. Thank you. Next card I had was for Lindley. Good evening. My name is Lindley. Um I'm a lifetime resident here. Uh I have I've already expressed quite a bit of concern at the last meeting in December that I attended where I spoke. So I would like to um refer to that for some of my opinions. But um I would like to say a few things. One, we've already seen um if you take if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. And there's a reason reason that people say that. And that is um you know, years ago uh we were told that there is a certain group of people that are too afraid to come here. And so we had to put down these stripes on Main Street. And then now we have to put up a pole with a flag that many people don't agree with, but so if you give an inch, they'll take an take a mile. I'd also like to say that I live in the Almond Grove where we have Halloween where up to 5,000 people have been in front in front of my house. Um, and then we also of course have the St. Mary's Country Fair, which I love and I attend to attend every year. Um, but I couldn't fathom having to stay up till 11:00 p.m. three nights in a row with the band that plays at St. Mary's straight until 10:00 p.m., which is great. It's such a great event. But still, if one group gets to do something, then other groups are going to want to do that. And I would

also like to remind the town that my Airbnb in um years ago was closed down. Closed um um through intimidation, not as kindly as what's going on here. Um but my business was closed down. It it contributed a whole maybe one or two extra cars to Tate Avenue, which already gets about a thousand cars every day. Um, and so the burden on my neighbors was so great that two cars was horrible and they had to close down my business. Um, I can't imagine what the neighbors are going through on Farley, but I know I would not be happy about that. And I can't imagine what why an exception would need to be made under really any circumstances. Um I I just don't see why any exception would need to be made. So, um, just to put things into perspective and I feel for everybody and, um, but yeah, quiet is good and you know, and I have, uh, I have tenants and I have neighbors and I'm sure that if I could have a party until 11:00 p.m. on a hot summer night, I'm sure that today under 10 p.m. curfew, my neighbors would be calling the cops on me. So, thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? All right, next two speakers, uh, Lee Canana and Margaret Kramer. Good evening. like to start by saying that I'm a member of the historic preservation committee, but I'm here representing myself as an individual resident of Los Gatos of 45, excuse me, 45 years. Um, I'd also like to say that I'm speaking as a person who has worked in environmental review for the city of San Jose for over 15 years. And although I retired a while ago, um I reviewed the request of this application today and I spent a lot of time reviewing SQA noise studies and federal law trying to uh ascertain how I felt about the whole issue. I support the faith community and hope that the issues raised can be resolved. But I do have several concerns. First is the exemptions from SQUA. Uh, in my opinion, and again I say it's maybe rusty, but I do believe that the town needs to have an outside consultant review this issue and determine whether or not it is exempt from SQA. I do not believe it is the the main issues that have been raised are traffic safety, light and noise. Traffic safety and light impacts are operational issues, not SQA issues. However, noise is a SQA issue. The staff

report does not indicate that the uh report submitted by the applicant's consultants was re reviewed by town staff or by the town's consultant. And that the the report that was issued relies heavily on ambient noise, which is an averaging of noise over a 24-hour period. It does not adequately address peak noises that occur over a specific period of time. uh such as while the ambient noise may be 45 uh dbas which is the average noise within that average noise over say a period of 15 minutes or an hour there may be certain points where the noise goes above that and what is the percentage of the time that the noise goes above that and what is considered an impact and what isn't um also I that it would be a good idea to get out our outside counsel to advise us on the issue of the federal law applicability. Um I also like to com comment that at the last meeting statements were m asked of uh faith community uh leaders what their noise I mean their hours of operation were but they weren't asked whether those hours of operation interfered with their religious faith activities. Um, and lastly, because I don't have much time, I ask you to continue this item with specific direction so that the outcome is amiable to everybody concerned. Thank you.

Yes, Commissioner Bernett.

Yes. Thank you, Miss Canana, for coming and all your service to Lasatus over the years. So, a question. Would you bringing up the issue of squa, which I because you did bring it up, I'd like to sort of ask you about this. Would you consider there's a a a fair argument um part to this that could be made for a cumulative impact and have maybe needing of a squa review? I don't know. I didn't read the data. At least I didn't see it in in what I saw in the staff report and in the uh applicants consultant noise report. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Commissioner Stomp,

perhaps I I missed this. Did she actually um Did you actually site a sequest section related to your review today? Yeah, there are two sections that the staff report Okay. relied on that was um see if I can find it. That's okay. If it's in the staff report, I can locate that. But I was looking for something that it's 15 300 and 15301.2 I think. Yeah. I was just looking for maybe your point that something you've reviewed today would drive the need for further environmental review.

Yeah, I looked at those sections and the section that was quoted in the staff report and I did not think it applied.

Thank you. Any other questions? No. Thank you. Margaret Kramer, I think Ann Griffin. I'm sorry. My understanding is that the Islamic faith is deeply rooted in devotion, discipline, and community. Islamic prayer is about intention, reflection and connection with God, not a specific location. In the reportings of the prophet Muhammad in the hadith, the prophet says, "The entire earth is a place of prayer." Islamic teaching is clear. Praying in mosques is encouraged and meaningful, but it is not required for the validity of prayer. Prayer can take place in a home with family or small gatherings or in a clean safe space. When all places for worship were closed during COVID, people were first forced to play pray by law privately in home. Prayer and a relationship with God does not require a specific location or building. I've lived in Lascatus for 55

years and have worshiped at St. Mary's Church. St. Mary's is also located in a residential neighborhood. Services and activities at St. Mary's must comply with the town ordinance of a clear shutdown no later than 1000 p.m. Because of the neighborhood, St. Mary's is also in a restricted parking area. Attendance at evening services can be challenging. Also, not all places of worship, but also neighborhoods have to comply with 10 p.m. shutdown. If a neighborhood party or event exceeds 1000 p.m., a policeman may knock on the door and the party will be shut down. This issue before you is not a religious issue. We all pray in different ways and are allowed and encouraged to live our faith. We know the Muslim faith does not require a specific location to pray. This issue is about land use, neighborhood compatibility. I am asking the Farley Road neighborhood be given the same living conditions that I enjoy in my neighborhood, evenings quiet and safe. That means to preserve residential integrity of this neighborhood, the mosque must be asked to follow the same restrictions all places of worship and residential neighborhoods are required to abide by.

Thank you. Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? No. I'm going to go back to two cards I've called before, but just to check. Um, one is Mindy Wellington who is representing Rusty Dead turn I think and then Margaret Kramer. Mindy Wellington is online. Oh. Oh, did it do twice? Okay, perfect. Thank you. And sorry, Mindy Wellington is on Zoom. Okay, great. I was going to move to Zoom next. Do we have any hands raised on Zoom? We do. Mindy, you can unmute yourself.

Hi there. Um, I am My name is Mindy Wellington and I'm reading a statement by Rusty Dehorn who attended the meeting last week on Zoom but is traveling tonight and unable to make the meeting. I currently live in the Blossom Manor neighborhood, but until September of 2023, I lived at 16791 Corsel Court, which shares 25 ft of back fence with the W MDA mosque. They were good neighbors while I was there. Their usage of the property was similar to the previous organization, the Church of Latter-day Saints. WVMA never had really had a detrimental impact to my property. Clearly, things have changed and I'm heartbroken for my former neighbors who have owned their homes for over 20 years. My concerns would be the same no matter what organization was asking for this cup. It has been proven that WVMA is breaking current CUP and town quiet ordinances. One example was evident in the last meeting when the WVMA hired noise consultant said he took readings during sunrise prayer which happens obviously before 8 a.m. It's not fair to people that have invested so much in their homes both monetarily and emotionally to be forced to give up the refuge and peace that they have become accustomed to in their home and neighborhood. If any organization can come in and get the rules changed over the objections of existing long-term neighbors, why do we have the rules? Has the town considered what the liability will be when people lose value of their property because they have to disclose that hundreds of cars and people will be arriving to WBMA at 4:30 a.m. and stay after 11. In fifth grade, I learned that a planning commission is supposed to make decisions about land use. There are many people,

great people supporting WBMA, very articulate speakers talking about their career successes and broader issues of religious freedom and persecution. I believe that everyone should have religious freedom. However, the question before the commission is about land usage. As my previous neighbors have stated, they feel like the town is letting them down. They have already amended the cup and there are violations of the current CUP that are not being enforced. I don't believe this is a case of a religious organization being treated unfairly, but rather a case of a group asking for special treatment regarding land usage laws that were in place when they purchased the property. This is an opportunity for the planning commission to do their part and uphold the existing zoning laws in this quiet residential neighborhood and the rights of homeowners. Please vote against the revised cup being proposed. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? No. Thank you, Mr. Pollson. Are there any other speakers on Zoom?

Yes. Next speaker will be Erica Hegelberg. Good evening, members of the planning commission. My name is Erica Hegelberg and I am an attorney at Hogue, Fenton, Jones, and Appel. My law firm represents Jim and Kim Ratcliffe, residents of Farley Road. I would like to first offer that for the record that neither the Evergreen is Evergreen Islamic Center on Ruby Avenue in San Jose nor the Alnor Mosque in Santa Clara on Katherine Street. Each of which were discussed at the March 25th meeting are zoned residential despite their proximity to residential zoning. The EIC is in a planned development zoning and Elnor is in a Claraara's public quasi public zoning. Whereas the zoning for the subject property at 16769 Farley Road is limited is zoned R1 and limited to uses consistent with that zoning. Second, it is California law that all discretionary projects as defined in California Environmental Quality Act, including the issuing and modification of CUPs must undergo environmental review prior to final approval. The project's impacts are not negligible and therefore are not categorically exempt from SQA. It would be reversible error to find that this modification is categorically exempt on the basis that it presents no increase to square footage. That is because SQA contemplates an increase to intensity of use as well as to square feet. Importantly, the town may not rely on mitigations to make its determination that there is no impact as it has done so here evidenced

in this half report. And finally, I would offer that the ninth circuit has issued binding authority which guides the substantial burden analysis in its jurisdiction which includes California. In the Ninth Circuit under Rupa, a land use regulation imposes a substantial burden on religious exercise only when it is oppressive to a significantly great extent. This means that the regulation must impose a significantly great restriction or onus upon the religious exercise, including uh and the court considers the totality of circumstances, including whether the municipality's reasons for denying a permit were arbitrary, whether alternatives within the jurisdiction are available, and whether the burden was self-imposed by the plaintiffs. And with that, I'll yield my times.

Thank you. Do we have any questions for the speaker?

Yeah, that's all. Vice Chair Barnett. So regarding the um Brupa uh issue, are you saying that um the um neighbors uh that none of those provisions uh would impair uh the violation? In other words, would um you envision that uh there's a um a broad exemption from Ry Lupa under these circumstances and if so what provision of the law are you relying on?

I'm not proposing that there is a broad exemption under Rupa. I'm proposing that under Ry Lupa for a uh there's there's two clauses under Ry Lupa that can lead to a planning commission's decision to be overturned. The first is whether the laws the zoning laws applicable to the project are equally uh facially neutral and equally applied which is not an issue here. And the second is if there is a stantial burden imposed on religion. So the way the ninth circuit interprets that substantial burden is to say whether there is an oppressive uh force on religion such that they would not be able to exercise their religion and the totality of circumstances test factors a multitude of things and not only the three things that I'm talking about here but significantly will weigh those three things and first is whether the municipality at issue whether it be a county or a city or has uh denied any application for an arbitrary reason. So here where public safety is that issue such as it was in a ninth circuit presidential case the spirit of aloha versus the county of Maui. If there is a significant increase to traffic and the burden on public agencies as there was in that spirit of aloha case and if there are significant traffic concerns the agency's findings that the project is unsuitable and unsuitable use can uh sub substantiate a finding a denial of the cup. So, under the holdings of Spirit of Aloha, the residents concerns about traffic, noise, safety, pedestrians, uh, kids riding bikes in the streets, those are all very similar things that

were found in the Spirit of Aloha case that substantiated the decision allowing the planning commission's denial of the Spirit of Aloha's CUP to be upheld. The second consideration is whether uh the burden on use is so restrictive that a worship a worship center or church or hall uh is unable to accommodate any religious use. So in a case called New Harvest versus New Harvest Christian Fellowship versus the city of Selenus. There was a zoning restriction that did not allow for assembly, religious assembly on the first floor of the building. However, the religious assembly would have been allowed on the second floor that because they were allowed to operate anywhere within their building that was did not that did not create a substantial burden on the religion. And finally, also in the new harvest case, the court looked at whether there were alternatives. And that's not alternatives anywhere or there's going to be an alternative anywhere in the world that can accommodate this. It's within the jurisdiction. Would the facility be allowed to move somewhere else? And so what this is going to look at is not denials that the uh subject property has had in other cities and other sounds, but have they been denied previously in Los Gatos? And if they applied elsewhere in Loscatos, would they also be denied or is there an opportunity anywhere within Los Gatos that they could be approved? Uh and one more thing that it will look at and it has been spoken to tonight by other members, other residents is that um

who are we talking to? Is this related to the question? Yes, these are all uh under uh ninth circuit holdings, but if you need to move on in the interest of time, that's that's fine. It's fair. Um if it's responding to Commissioner Barnett's question, um it's allowed. And if it's independent of Commissioner Barnett's question, it's not. So, however, we have other questions for you. Commissioner Stump,

I'd like to revisit your point about SQUA where you basically said that um I'll call it this project is not categorically categorically exempt. Could you further enhance your explanation on this project not being categor categorically exempt as far as SQA goes?

Yes, absolutely. So the categorical exemptions under SQA are contemplated when there is an existing use which would not create a substantial impact. That substantial impact is not limited to a square footage increase. it is uh consideration of any environmental impact. And so as you've heard residents discussing, there's going to be and already is substantial impact by the increased use uh the existing increased use and speculation and uh wellfounded speculation that approving this permit or approving this conditional use permit would greater those impacts. The staff report relies on mitigations to come to its conclusion that there is no impact and that is permiss impermissible under California law. Um case called Sunflower Alliance versus the Department of Conservation. A 2024 case specifically says an agency may not evade SQA by adopting mitigation measures simply to qualify a project for a categorical exemption. Similarly, salmon protection versus and watershed network versus the county of Marin uh the county of Marin did a similar thing where it found that the project in question as conditioned and mitigated would not have a significant adverse impact on the environment and that was reversible error that the California court of appeal did find error and did reverse. So to the extent that the staff report is relying on the mitigations uh as it outlines in pages two and nine of the report uh saying that it will not impair the integrity or character of the residential zone because of the conditions uh that it will not be a detriment to public health or safety because of the conditions of approval

which will address any potential noise, traffic and safety impacts or that it is because the project is required to comply with noise mitigation, parking lot monitoring and overflow um as conditions of appeal, it will thus not have any impacts. So where the staff report is saying the impact findings are the impacts are null because they've mitigated that is impermissible under California law. Thank you. There any further questions for the speaker? No. Thank you, Mr. Paulson. Is there any other speakers?

Yes. One second. Uh, looks like Yazari. Hello. Good evening everyone. My name is Fiseli. I am the former president of Evergreen Islamic Center which is also known as EIC. EIC is located at 2486 Ruby Avenue in San Jose, California. Today I come to you not as a representative of Ever Islamic Center but as a community member on my own behalf. EIC was started in 1989 and we recently built a 40,000 foot facility on a 2.2 acre parcel. The facility is located in the middle of single family homes. EIC is surrounded by single family homes on all sides except the north side where there's a two-way street. This again is a neighborhood that is surrounded by homes. EIC is currently operating on a temporary conditional use permit issued by the city of San Jose as we are in the process of completing the construction of the facility. EIC, much like WVMA, offers all five daily prayers and the full Ramadan nightly services. Similar to all other

mosques in the Bay Area, our prayer times are virtually identical to that of WVMAS, perhaps off by a minute or two. If anyone is interested in learning more about the prayer times and the services that EIC offers, you're welcome to look those up at eic san Jose.org. With that, I conclude and if there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer those. All right, Commissioner Bernett.

Yes, thank you. Um, I do have a question. Um so uh 2486 Ruby Avenue that we you're talking about. Um it is located though on a very wide boulevard with three lanes. There's striping and there are lights. So it's it's quite different than a small residential uh dark lit um street. Is that not so? When you look at it online, you can you can see what

Yeah. Yeah. The commissioner to answer your question uh the wide boulevard that you see is actually not we're not on the white boulevard itself. We are north of that Tali road where the front the the main entrance to the center to the mosque is just a narrow two-way street.

Does that answer your question? I was describing I guess I was describing Ruby Avenue where it says it is is um located. So maybe yeah Ruby Avenue south of Tali is like that wider boulevard with bike lanes and whatnot but north of Tali it turns into a two-way street. Thank you. Any Commissioner Stump?

Question. um how have your neighbors received you in that location? What issues have there been? What issues have you addressed and how have you addressed them? So the center has been in existence since 1989 and you can say we have grown with the neighborhood and we are a part of the fabric of the Evergreen Hills uh where our neighbors are pretty much welcome to the center uh any time of the day and we actually have constant conversations and information exchanges with the neighborhoods. And our center plays a prominent role in staying connected to the community by offering our facility to any kind of a city event that we want to hold like park and recreations wanted to inform the community about uh the changes in the parks that they were making. So we allow our facility to be used as a part of the community to inform the community. So in short uh we stay very well connected to the community and our community members, our neighbors have been extremely good to us and we try to reciprocate that uh in the best way possible.

Thank you. Um I have a quick question. Um how many um people attend your mosque during Ramadan? Uh peak I would say about 5 to 700. It ranges depending on whether some of those services fall on a weekend or on a weekday. What do you do about overflow parking? Because it doesn't appear that your parking lot probably holds that many cars. So, two things we do. One, we strongly recommend car pooling. Two, there is on street parking that our uh our congregation members use.

All right. Thank you. Are there any other questions for the speaker? No. Thank you, Mr. Pollson. Are there any other speakers on Zoom? Yes. The next speaker is Amomar Khan.

Good evening everyone. My name is Omar. Um, Amomar Khan. I am the current chairperson of the MCA uh Bay Area located in Santa Clara. Um so I am one of the uh the board members who helped with the Majid Anure facility that we acquired back in around mid 1980s located off of 1755 Katherine Street. Um, so we've acquired that building in 1980 around the mid1 1980s and we've had the privilege of operating the facility continuously since its acquisition and um we offer all five daily prayers there. We even include a full Ramadan service there which means that you'll have the prayers as well as the uh the Quranic recitation afterwards um where we hold uh prehis prayers. Um and so we've had the privilege of being in that facility during the peak summer months when the sunrise prayer happens around 5:00 a.m. and during the late nights of summer where it goes the prayer starts as late as 10:10. Um now I it's it is in my opinion one of the best mosques that I go to. Now not just a board member but like it it it has grown with the residential community and we've had a really really good relationship with our uh community members where we exchange gifts like I was just there the other day and our residents who've had beautiful produce trees in front and they were sharing this with with their uh congregation people who were going by. I've seen this as a very harmonious relationship. Uh and I would love to have a similar opportunity here and and support it for the Lascatus community as well.

Without a yield, any further questions for the speaker? Um I do. Can you tell me um what a typical attendance number of attendees would be during Ramadan? it. So the mosque is actually filled during the Ramadan. I would say we reach about 5 to 600 people. Um and Ramadan is a very special time. So we actually have a lot of good um traffic management and security available uh for primarily three purposes. One, we as you could probably imagine our parking lot cannot handle that traffic either.

Yep. And so we actually help our res uh congregation members provide them guidance on where to park, what not to park, uh how to manage the traffic flow, speeding and so we have people who have uh you know appropriate clothing and appropriate light care to remind people of you know where they could be parking, where they could be going. That's one. Second, we also help ensure that there is no uh discussion and socialization that's happening at certain nighttime hours. So, as you can imagine, right now, the late night prayer happens around 9:45 p.m. That's quite late for most people. In fact, um I'm being a resident of Santa Clara. Even I would argue that that can be late for people. And so we have individuals who come and encourage the congregation members to disperse immediately after prayer. So avoid having the socialization do that at their own convenience with their own properties and kind of just disperse as much as we can. We encourage that quite a lot. Um and then the third thing we also very much try to do is we have regular discussions with our neighbors to see what we can continue doing better. uh that way we have a immediate feedback loop of ensuring that our neighbors who you know are very important to us uh get the best experience as well while we uh go through this religious month.

All right. Thank you. My pleasure. Mr. Pollson, are there any other speakers? Yes. Next speaker will be Ali Mo.

Hi, thank you for taking my comment. As a Catholic and longtime resident of Los Gatos and one who happens to live in close proximity to my own church, I urge the planning commission to allow WVA may to expand their hours of operation in order to celebrate Ramadan. All over Los Gatos, whether it's St. Mary's on Bean and Tate or the Seventh Day Adventist on Broadway or Sher Hadash on Cherry Blossom Lane, there are all kinds of houses of worship in residential areas. I admire WVMA's desire to keep Ramadan alive and well and to maintain a centuries old tradition and keep their community grounded. Previously, I spoke to the council about parallels between what used to be our midnight mass at St. Mary's and Ramadan. But I'd also like to point out another kind of ritual that's quite prevalent in our town. As a downtown resident for nearly 30 years, I can tell you that these streets can get really noisy after midnight, especially around 2:00 a.m. on the weekends when the bars let out. It may not happen every weekend, but several times I've been awakened from my slumber by a bar hopper or a teen partyier celebrating loudly, but I've acknowledged that if you're going to live downtown, you've got to put up with some noise. I wonder if this were a Christian denomination celebrating evening Lenton service or an Easter vigil. Uh would there be such preoccupation with the faithful starting their cars late at night and driving home from nighttime services? Our country touts its founding based on practicing religious freedom. Loscatos needs to defend the rights of all religions to safely and solemnly practice their rituals. I urge the residents to work together with WVMA and do something that we used to do in our country not too long ago. Compromise. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? Thank you, Mr. Paulson. Are there any other speakers on Zoom? There are. Next speaker is K. Lee.

Good evening. Hello. Um, my name is Kinsey and as a near lifetime resident of this community and a member of the Losatus Anti-Racism Coalition, tonight I speak in support of modifying WVMA's conditional use permit for extended hours. As you've already heard both last week and today, commissioners, the land use question in front of you is really the question of our neighbors right to practice their religion freely. Prayers do not magically become less sacred or more optional when inconvenient. For the ACLU to prevent the WVMA from operating during pre-dawn and evening prayer times would impose a substantial burden to the entire Muslim community of Lascatos. Last week you heard that in few hours between sunset and lights out they are breaking fast, eating dinner, yes occasionally navigating through traffic and attending evening prayers every day of Ramadan. As someone who is not Muslim and barely has the wherewithal to complete all of my evening responsibilities when I get home from work, their commitment does not pay paint these practices as extra credit or negotiable. Every limitation on access to their place of worship during this time materially compromises these community members religious freedoms. While scatter claims to champion inclusivity, we have an entire section devoted to it on the town website. Assuming we're all on the same page here that the WVMA is in fact a part of our community, this is the type of tangible ask we should be supporting fullheartedly. Our town cannot say we value all of our community members in one breath and look past certain members inable rights in the next.

I realize there are valid concerns here about cars and noise. And to that I have to say while I do believe the WVMA has a responsibility to address those concerns as a good neighbor. I don't see any material justifications for indefinitely infringing upon mosque attendees right to prayer at their place of worship due to the hour of the day. The WVMA works with other businesses and organizations in the area to deal with overflow parking. They've offered to plant more trees and hedges to mitigate noise. They took down their security g gate in consideration of their neighbors. It is clear the mosque is actively trying to connect and work with the rest of the community. They are only petitioning for expanded hours because it is indirect service to their faith and it's their right. For those reasons, I respectfully ask that the commission approve the proposed modifications to the WVMA's conditional use permit. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? No. Thank you. So, the next speaker is uh Fatima. You're still on mute.

Here, they're not unmuting. out. If you can hear us, we need you to unmute. Otherwise, we'll need to move on to the next speaker.

Hello, we can hear you. Hi. Sorry. I was just getting ready for prayer, which is what we're all fighting to do um in peace and in the uh with all the rights that we all have. But since you guys called me, I will delay the prayer for a second. I just wanted to make two points. And um one of them is the utter confusion that I have in people, the neighbors that we have to the WVMA and how they are comparing our worship, our lengthy long hours of worship during the month of Ramadan to partying. where that correlates I I'm I'm lost. Then my other thing was the advice uh one of the the neighbors I believe or a supporter of one of the neighbors made a comment about the prophet our prophet Muhammad wasallam peace be upon him. She was trying to quote him and reference what he teaches us Muslims and it was around the lines of um that we don't have to worship at a local masid that we can worship from the comfort of our own homes. Um yes with context uh I think it we need to uh remember that there's context within that but I do want to just quickly say with outside of the context are we suggesting that some of us buy homes and pray and invite all these people that are going to the masids to pray right next door in mass numbers and you can't tell me what I'm supposed to do in my own home at that regard in that regard. I just I feel like it's also for me confusing the timing of all of these accusations and complaints when the political atmosphere

is in turmoil in the Middle East right now. And I just feel targeted in this community. We talk about certain people of walks of faith, of different skin colors. Um, and I literally feel nothing but targeted in these uh suggestions that you are trying to tell us that because we were here 26 years ago. Um, and there was a church prior that we were okay with cuz there was a lack of foot traffic at that church of the time that this new population, this new demographic of Muslims who are doing just the same thing but in mass numbers within the confines of the jur like within what the uh uh the maximum capacity. We tried we we're bending backwards to try to accommodate and the time that these complaints are coming are of um questioning circumstances for me. Uh and I I just I have to just say I can't feel but I like I'm we're being targeted as Muslim community not by everyone. And I really want to say thank you to those who are supporting us and are really trying to work with us. But it's crazy that that us worshiping hours on end for the majority of the time if not the entirety of our prayers being very peaceful. This is peaceful gatherings. Just to remind you, peaceful gatherings of prayer and worship and you guys are comparing it to partying.

I'm sorry, but I'm lost. That was your three minutes. Thank you. Thank you so much. Are there any questions for the speaker? No. Thank you. There are no more hands raised on Zoom.

All right. Actually wasn't ready to get to that so quickly. So, um, now that we've listened to all the public testimony, the applicant can make a closing statement. You will have three minutes to speak and then there may be questions. if you could put up the presentation uh here. Uh good evening. Thank you uh planning commissioners for giving us the opportunity to make a closing statement. Um I we deliberately requested our members uh to refrain from additional comments since we had made that on the 25th. I think one slipped through over here. So apologize for that. Uh if you could put up the presentation please. Um want to start off by uh telling uh that you know we have always extended our hand on continuous basis to our neighbors um you know despite what you have heard. If you can go to the next slide please uh over here um over and over last uh last Wednesday that we had not reached out. That's not the case. I can show you text messages again and again from different folks uh to different folks that saying please what can we do to can we get together and so on. Um we reached out again this past uh uh on Thursday uh and held a meeting on Sunday with some of the neighbors. We talked about uh what are some of their suggestions and others in order to improve our operational items. There are certainly certain things that we can do and certain things we cannot do. We cannot change our prayer timings that are determined by sunrise and sunset. They are we cannot change the fact that we have to have Ramadan nightly prayers. What we can is improve our operational methods in order to make it mitigate as

many of the issues as possible. So as you can see we have left no stone unturned in terms of reaching out to our neighbors and and trying to address them. Next slide please. Many of the points raised are already have been covered here uh in the draft conditions of approval. But I just want to talk about a couple of things over here. One people a lot of comments have been made as if that there are 16 hours days that we are having services. Keep in mind that sunrise and sunset times determine prayer timings. 11 months of a year, we are talking about essentially agreeing to having a few additional time one and a half hours before sunrise uh for the uh sunrise pre- sunrise prayer and then an additional half an hour for the nightly prayers. That's for the 11 months of a year. The additional time until about 11:30 p.m. is only for the one month of Ramadan. So that's not for all other 11 months as an example. Over here we have addressed a number of noise and quiet hours. Many of them are handled by the existing conditions of permit. If you can go to the next slide pre please. Like the noise and quiet hours we the condition 13 already says we shall apply we shall comply with all towns noise ordinance and we shall comply with all quiet hours. That's what conditions of approval say any already. Again, let's go to the next one, please. In the case of traffic. Okay, I think that's it for the time being, but I'm happy to answer any questions.

Any questions, Vice Chair Bernett? Yes. Would you please provide your best estimate of the number of additional vehicles that will enter the property during the extended hours? Sure. In the case of uh the morning pre- sunrise prayer um these days we probably on the order of on a weekday usually on Monday through Friday uh in non-Ramadan period they may be on the order of about 30 to 50 cars on a Saturday and Sunday that might increase to maybe about 70 to 100 cars depending on whether it's holidays or other uh other case.

I had one more. Yes, go ahead.

Uh, what would be your thoughts about adding language to the proposed conditions? Uh, that would require um submission of your application for expansion of the parking lot uh say within 6 months and completion of construction of the approved plans within 12 months. So that that would be for uh essentially for the parking study that we submitted previously to increase it to two uh 203. Uh I think in general uh we would want to do that. We were just concerned about our expense as well as the approval before we would actually do that. But if that is something that we could do, I can I can check with our board. But maybe that may be a possibility for us to uh take that as a condition of approval. Thank you, sir. Commissioner Stump,

by the way, I have several questions on use and occupancy, so you can cut me off whenever you need to. I I will go ahead.

Okay. Um, I've heard different numbers related to your occupancy. Could you please clarify for us what is your maximum occupancy for your mosque? So there is a fire and building occupancy number that is I believe 1,217 maximum that is by fire code we cannot exceed that uh that they because we do not have pews as an example in a traditional thing we pray standing up the traditionally what we have seen is we accommodate a a slightly lesser number in each one of those three different auditoriums that we have but we don't have a specific number there per se like I mentioned before last time uh the maximum that we have had over the last two years on 3 days in 2025 and 2 days in 2026 Ramadan we're about 850 people. So, if I'm to understand it, because I believe the 1217 is based on a standing room only, which means standing uh five square feet per participant. Are your are your folks standing throughout the um the service or does it take some other form?

Yeah, so great question. Um Commissioner Stump, the fire code, I don't know how they calculate that number. Okay. So they probably calculated based on certain square footage per person. Here our congregation basically stands in rows and then we have to kind of prostrate effectively. So we take up approximately about 8 to 10 square foot and then of course we have to clear the aisleways and things of that nature as an example. So it's highly unlikely that we will reach the 1217 uh because we obviously you know are not going to be uh at that range. Okay. Well, thank you. Can I continue? You can.

Um, your website shows a schedule of five prayer times or services, and feel free to straighten me out on that. Daily between the hours of currently between 5:00 a.m. and 1000 p.m. It's about a 17 hour operations time frame. What is your average daily attendance across those five prayer times um outside of Ramadan?

Sure. So uh outside of Ramadan and it depends again on let's say weekdays and non holidays and things of that nature as an example. So typically what happens is uh in the in in the uh weekdays on the pre- sunrise we might have 50 to 60 uh folks that would come in as an example for that prayer and then on the weekends about 70 to 100 right

they would come in and generally leave within 20 minutes to at most an hour as an example. So then after that there are almost no activities because people are going to work, people are going and there's almost nobody at the facility between after the prayer ends uh all the way to the afternoon prayer which is depending again on daylight savings or daylight standard probably is at 12:30 or 1:30 p.m. So then are the other three prayer times just set out for your congregants to um recognize those prayer times at their office or some other location or is prayer service going on at the facility during those other three times as well?

We uh we try to have five daily prayers in congregation uh every day, seven days a week. there is a resident imam that lives on the property that would probably uh come and offer that and if uh but it always happens that whoever is in the neighborhood at the nearest mosque that would come in. So during the midday uh prayers that number might be much smaller uh comparatively maybe about 20 people that might be there uh in the afternoon. There may be other programs that may be going on for for women uh mommy and me and things of that nature. So they would probably join in the congregational prayers at that point in time.

So again, my question would be on an average day, how many people are at your facility for these prayer times? And you can leave out the special activities, but how many people are on your probably probably on the order of about 100 people for every prayer or so. So you would guess 500 per day, but they're coming and going effectively. They may be the same person uh that that is there. Yes. So then would you say with that number of people that you're fully able to accommodate them in your parking lot? Absolutely.

Okay. Um during Ramadan, we know that it's higher. You'd mentioned last at the last meeting that your peak for 2026 was 850 on two nights. On two nights. Okay. and and you estimated because I realize you're probably not out counting cars, but you estimated 280 cars. I did count that, by the way, but yeah,

which would mean um 180 in your lot hopefully if your lot is full. And I realize you've got some challenges there. And that would mean 100 people seeking parking either on the street or some other offsite location. Um, and as I understand it, in fact, when I came out one evening, you did have somebody directing people into the parking lot at Affordable Treasure. Um, how many parking spaces have you been able to um, make arrangements for at Affordable Treasures?

Yes. So, I believe Affordable Treasures has about 40 parking spots there. And uh on that 280 max number that I gave you, we actually accommodated about 200 cars by actually squeezing in at the far part of the parking lot additional vehicles. They are smaller vehicles as an example. We try to kind of squeeze them in uh harder and about 35 were parked on that particular day at affordable treasures. So the remainder of uh the 280 minus uh 235 were on uh somewhere on uh on street parking. It seems like you're really blessed that you've had your moss grow significantly um and at some point you're going to get close to your maximum occupancy where it may require you then to send people to overflow locations.

Have you explored other off-site locations in Los Gatos or other surrounding communities? We um so we have a very small facility of thousand square feet in Saratoga and what we actually do for Ramadan specifically is rent the Saratoga prospect center and we have been doing that since 2009 and we actually have special permission from the city of Saratoga to use it till midnight for Ramadan prayers and actually the number of people that come to the city the Saratoga prospect center is more than that are coming to our Loscatos facility. We actually have about 600 people uh on an average and we use both the grace hall and the friendship hall. There are two halls separately and we run a uh sound system thing in order to actually accommodate uh accommodate that.

If I may just I think I've got um maybe two more. Commissioner S, I'm just going to remind you we have a break at 8 o'clock. So you might have to do a question and then we might take a break.

Perfect. We'll go we'll be very speedy here. Um, a speaker earlier reported that another mosque, I believe it was in Santa Clara, that out of uh, I'll just say out of respect for their neighbors, that they've um, agreed to end their evening by 1000 p.m. Now, that means that they are actually or I think what was also mentioned is they were holding Ramadan services for that entire 30 days at another site. Are you familiar with this particular mosque? I I am familiar with this mosque. This the last speaker who spoke was the chairman of the board of trustees of MCA. I used to be president of MCA from 2003 to 2007 about 21 years ago. So I'm very familiar with this mosque. It's called Mazjid Deur on 1755 Katherine Street here. So I was involved at that point in time on that. They have the same five daily prayers. They have the same Ramadan nightly prayers. They do not end at 1000 p.m. in summer months. they would actually go on until about 11:00 11:30 uh as well. So it's exactly the same set of services and you can go look at the mcabay area.org site.

So that speaker was wrong. The I don't know who the speaker was. Uh I'm just so But you're saying that is not correct. They do not. Now these days when uh time is uh the sunrise the sunset is before 7:30 p.m. Of course our nightly prayer happens much earlier than 10 p.m. But in summer months the time does not even start until 10:10 p.m. So it's not possible for us to offer the prayer before 10 p.m. Okay. Um I'm in in respect that for 8:00 I will stop at this point. Okay. Appreciate. Thank you. Thank you.

So we will take um it's just a couple minutes till 8. So we're going to go ahead and take a break and we'll be back at 8:15.

We will reopen the discussion. I believe Commissioner Stump had a couple more questions.

Um, switching the category to SQA. We had one speaker this evening who's got significant experience um in the planning world in environmental and in her opinion of course just her opinion she did not believe or she believed this really required environmental review uh because there are significant you know changes that are taking place. And then of course the attorney representing one of the Farley Road um residents basically said that this is not in her opinion of course not categorically exempt from SQA. Um and she did not really feel that the conditions of approval really go far enough in mitigating any potential issues. So my question is what position do you take on SQUA?

Um I'm not an expert on SQA. Can I request my council to answer? Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Glad he's here. Good evening commissioners. Can you hear me? Okay.

My name is Matthew Bicc. I'm a a partner at Ruben Junius and Rose. Um happy to answer the secret question. It actually gives me an opportunity to point out something that underpins a lot of the disparity in the comments. I think I think we're all talking about two different projects. I think a lot of the opponents to this project envision this as an expansion of use. That's fundamentally incorrect. The same five prayers are happening in both situations before and after. The same people are coming. The same number of cars are coming and going. Nothing's any different except one thing. At the end of it, you don't have to scrunch the time and leave early. It's the only difference. Everything else is already happening today. It's already allowed under the existing use permit. You have to really grasp that. That's that's an important distinction. There is no expansion of use here. We're not adding any prayers. We're not adding any people. I hate to interrupt but we do need you to actually answer the question.

Yeah, absolutely. But the making that point clearly is really important for everything I'm about to say. So

SQA is about impacts in the environment, right? So you're you're what might the impacts be? They might be car trips. They might be noise. Uh I don't know. I mean in another project it might be impacts on endangered species or something like that. Here it's really noise and traffic. The the the the noise is going to happen half an hour or it's going to be it's going to occur for over a period that's half an hour longer or an hour longer depending on which 15-year period you're in the so but it's not more noise. It's just happening over, you know, it's the cars are spread out. Uh, and the number of trips doesn't go up at all either. It's the same people coming and going. So, you don't have any more cars in if you approve this use permit amendment tonight, you aren't going to have any more cars than you do already. That's why there's no environmental impact. It is an existing facility. The standard that has to be met here is uh um sorry I'm I'm a little sick. I was up really late last Wednesday night. Um uh the standard that has to be met is negligible or no expansion abuse. That's the standard for a class one SQL exemption. That's the case here. Ironically, the case that the attorney who called in cited, Sunflower Alliance, is a great case for proving exactly that point. I could tell you about the case if it's of interest to you, but it it actually makes our point for us much better than it makes theirs. The the other thing is the squa. So, um in SQA there uh the categorical exemptions the the speaker who came up who who once did environmental review for the city of San Jose uh was talking about categorical exemptions and exemp

exceptions to the exemptions. It's in SQL guidelines 1530.2 and the exe gets my tongue tied. The exceptions don't apply to the class one exception. It's it's just a mistake I think. But they're inapplicable. I I don't want to make everybody's eyes glaze over. SQL always kind of does that. But um if if you want to ask me any specific questions, I'm happy to walk you through it. The the fundamental point is there's no expansion of views. Thank you. Sure. Right. Are there any other questions for the applicant?

Commissioner Sordy. Yeah. Just um I wanted to clarify the operating hours in the morning. Um is it so obviously we've got the expansion of hours into the evening. Um, is is there a mutual exclusivity at all between that and the hours happening in the morning or are the establishment of the hours in the morning year round including Ramadan? The establishment of the morning hours are year round and the establishment until 10:30 p.m. is year round because of the five daily prayers to accommodate that that particular time.

Okay. So, if we were to sort of identify maybe a worst case scenario time of year, we might say that's the time of year where you might have starting at something along the lines of maybe 4:15, 4:30 a.m. ending.

Yeah. So, let me clarify. Let me clarify prayer timings versus congregational congregational I can never say congregational prayer timings. Okay. So prayer timings for pre- sunrise prayer on let's pick the the longest day of the year. June 21st I believe is the longest day of the year. In the longest day of the year the pre- sunrise prayer time starts at 4:17 a.m. and ends at approximately I don't remember the exact number but it's probably about 6:05 a.m. or something to that effect. Okay. The congregational prayer that we hold is not at 4:17 a.m. The earliest congregational prayer that we hold throughout the year is 5:00 a.m. Okay, that is so if you go look at the word that we use in Arabic is a comma IQ A M Ah. So if you look at our timing on our uh website, it'll show you a 500 a.m. congre congregational prayer timing. So people will arrive probably 5 or 10 minutes prior to that thing, you know, and then we'll stay for the next 20 30 minutes and then uh depart uh after that. So that's 5:00 a.m. is the earliest you're going to see based on June 21st. on December 21st, that same con congregational prayer timing is 6:30 a.m. Okay. So that time will continue to change during based on the sunrise. We don't have the luxury of saying it has to be at 5:00 a.m. or 6:00 a.m. or 7:00 a.m. or 8:00 a.m. We have to do it based on sunrise. The time for the pre- sunrise prayer ends at sunrise. So we cannot pray after sunrise. So today the sunrise prayer I sunrise is like at 7:00

a.m. right I think approximately uh here. So our prayer has to end by that time. Okay. Thank you. And just a quick followup. So the um I wanted to understand a little bit more about the um in the religion the need to pray in a group. Is it more relevant and more established during Ramadan or is it I mean is for all practical purposes are the prayer times as they're established always in group? So

the the in our religion you can pray anywhere that you u are basically. So if I am uh at work I and the time for prayer comes you can pray there. But there is an understanding and a uh saying of the prophet that you will get 27 times more reward if you pray in congregation at a mosque. And that's what leads people to come to the mosque in order to pray in congregation. And that's what happens. Now obviously in Ramadan more people are more they are more engaged with the religion in the sense that they want to increase their practice because they want to get additional rewards. That's our belief system effectively. And hence there is maybe an increase for people attending congregational prayers in Ramadan over there. But in general prayers can be offered any place. Congregational prayers are considered much more advantageous because of of that. And I can have our imam uh speak to that if you want or or either way is fine.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Commissioner Bernett. Yes. Thank you. So, um, we've been talking a lot about the noise and I think that was one of the

that the, uh, other attorney brought up about in SQA and noise, but I wanted to refer to our municipal court, um, code, which is the curfew noise disturbance code, and that is a between 1000 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. and within like a 100 feet of sleeping places or noises. I mean um now how does that impact with the early morning prayers the late night the later night prayers but the morning prayers I think that that municipal code 16.20.010 which is the curfew noise disturbance.

Yeah. Can I have our council uh answer that particular question, but I will also come back and answer part of that as well. I I I agree that's a confusing part of your code. If if you go to the the bottom of that section or I'm sorry if if you notice that the term that it uses I believe is noise disturbance. Unreal disturbance. I think it says but I think the defined term is noise disturbance. If you then go up to the top of that section of the Municode,

it defines noise disturbance and it defines it in a sort of contextual fashion and then it says something along the lines of uh compliance with the numerical noise standards of this code is considered to be resolution of a noise disturbance. It it if you meet the numeric standards below, you are not creating a noise disturbance. If I could add something over there, if you look at the draft conditions of approval over there, they basically say the following things, right? All activities shall comply with the town's noise ordinance residential standard in effect at the time of the activity measured at the property line during 1000 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. So it's already built into the condition that we will have to comply with this noise ordinance.

So just a further question on that. So but you are out of compliance right now with the 2020 cop. No, we do not believe we are out of compliance for that because I think the noise study provided that that we are in compliance with the noise standard and current the current CUP does not have a start time included in there. So when lot of the neighbors talk about us violating that, we're not violating because there is no condition there is no start time listed in the current conditional use permit. In fact, 3 days ago on uh Friday morning, the Lascatos Police Department was called and and we they were met by a whole uh they met a whole bunch of uh our attendees saying, "What is going on over here?" We said, "Well, we're offering a prayer service." And they looked around and they said, "Hm, okay." and they left as an example because and then we talked to the to the police department as well as uh to uh to uh planning as well and said you know we are being essentially called out on something that is uh is not a restriction for us today.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Vice Chair Barnett and then Commissioner Stump. Um so proposed condition 20 um uh imposes the requirement of sufficient shrubs to be planted and maintained to obscure vehicle headlights uh in on certain streets including Farley. And my question is would you consider um additional fence height to u additionally provide mitigation against the light pollution?

Absolutely. Uh right now the Lascatus code and just like Saratoga code allowed 6 foot of height and 2 foot of lattice. If the town would want us to increase that to something different uh happy to do that. We have actually also offered our front neighbors an opportunity to plant some trees uh in in their front lot that we would pay for in order to mitigate some of the light coming into their uh their uh property as as well. But we would absolutely be willing to kind of uh raise the the the fences if needed. Thank you so much, Commissioner Stomp.

I've got a question on hours and then I do have a couple of questions on parking and traffic if I may. Um, related to hours, your current schedule under your current cup allows for uh Ramadan hours up through 11 p.m. At at what time are your congregants expected to exit the facility and basically things be shut down based on that 11:00 time frame? What what's the expectation? Th this is this is a great question and I think uh this is where our interpretation was different and we had the the letter that was written to us in July of 2024 by attorney Gabriel was that you have to clear the facility completely at 11 p.m.

Okay,

which is where a huge challenge is that exists today. For example, uh we re you all received a letter on uh actually on Monday this week from our neighbor uh Miss Ratcliffe that talked about essentially a curfew violation at 11:00 p.m. on the last day of Ramadan on 3 uh on uh 3:15. And I just want to elaborate on that one. If you look at the video, and I encourage you to look at the video over there, it is being filmed from the bushes. Okay? And you can see the bushes around that which gives us a tremendous amount of pain like we are being spied on. We are being uh looked upon in in there at all times which is kind of what is happening here. And then you will see in that video our executive director Lumna frantically waving cars to go by uh in there because we redirected the traffic to not exit from the uh exit driveway but in order not to disturb Miss Ratcliffe and we wanted them to exit on that and on that day it was the last day of Ramadan. So we actually our imam uh had an additional supplication to pray for the peace of the world and he took a little bit longer to do that and that was resulted in us just marginally going about one or two minutes over that and and Los and what what is happening over here if I could explain this is that the amount of the peace and quiet that we feel in the prayer suddenly turns into this mad rush to get out effectively. And part of the reason why we're requesting a little bit of extra time is because we want to kind of leave gradually and nicely so that we don't have create this type of mad rush uh that that goes out. So it's very important for us to make sure that we

have an end time for the facility and a clearing time that allows us to exit normally and uh in in a safe manner uh as an example. So then let me let me move on then to um if your general hours meaning non Ramadan are extended to 10:30 p.m. Yes.

And your seasonal late hours as it's being called in the cup extended to 11:30 p.m. or 12:00 p.m. Again, sunset dependent. Understand that. By what times will your members have fully exited the facility, property, and neighborhood during those general hour services ending at 10:30 p.m. and seasonal 8 hour services ending at 11:30 p.m. and 12:00 a.m.? Yes. So, the current conditional uh language in the condition use permit allows us an additional 30 minutes to clear the parking lot. So, that means 10:30 would be 11. That's right. 11:30 would be midnight. Yeah. And 12 a.m. would now be 12:30 a.m.

And again, I want to emphasize the reason for that is not to cause that mad rush basically. Understand? Uh let me move to a followup on parking and traffic. Now you may have answered this question so I apologize if it's being asked again. Um as you go to seasonal late hours for Ramadan, do you expect these expanded hours to drive any additional attendance?

We we don't. Um we we cannot guarantee that obviously because you know uh the the part of the thing is basically that part of the reason is that postco faith communities all across the board saw an increase in people coming to their congregations right and it's just not the Muslim community. I've talked to some of the other interfaith leaders. They've all experienced that because people are looking for meaning effectively. So that's the reason why we saw an uptick in our attendance as a result of that thing. But what we are seeing is uh just as an example 2025 I mentioned three nights where we had a lot of people 2026 was two. So it's not like we are increasing that we are maintaining that uh on an ongoing basis right now.

Chair if I may I've got two additional questions. Yes. Okay. Um, it's mentioned in one of your documents, and again, I understand probably the challenges of your parking lot with 180 spaces. Um, it's not always full that congregants choose to find alternative off-site parking for a variety of reasons. Um, and so the current capacity of your parking lot is 180 spaces. Correct.

That is correct. And and so again, maybe you could tell us why your congregants, especially if you're going to spend money to rework, restripe your parking lot, maybe a reverse parking in the parking lot or not fully filling that parking lot to capacity. So on a regular basis for the general five daily prayers and so on with the exception of Fridays and with the exception of Ramadan, we are telling all of our congregants to park within the our parking lot and not use street parking whatsoever. Okay? And we continue to remind folks, we continue to tell everybody we that's part of our newsletter campaign that goes out on a regular basis. And for almost everything else except for Fridays and except for uh except for the uh Ramadan uh we are able to accommodate uh all of the prayers to be within uh our facility. There may be some events occasionally and in which case part of the conditions of use permit basically say is that if we are going to fill up the parking lot we need to create a traffic management plan which we have committed to doing as part of the conditions of of approval.

What sort of overflow do you typically face on a Friday? It sounds like you have more you know again more people attending those Friday services the Friday prayer time. Yeah. How many cars would you estimate have to seek other parking? Probably on the order of about 30 or 40 or so. Thank you.

Uh our Saratoga facility has generally two to three staggered prayers at the Saratoga Prospect Center. Again, that's a rental facility over there. So, we have tried to move as many of the congregants to actually pray in Saratoga. Part of the reason that Saratoga Prospect Center is also where there are a lot more businesses around there. So, most people go over there. Lasados is much more even more residential than Saratoga is in that sense. So we don't necessarily see a whole lot of folks coming over here but certainly there is some amount of uh overflow. Keep in mind that also our uh uh our those who are for example working from home and people have some families and kids may also come to the and so they carpool generally uh for those services.

Thank you. And my final question, the surrounding neighborhood that you're in was developed back in the 40s,50s,60s pime predominantly and development of residential properties back at that time did not require curbs, gutters, sidewalks and some of the neighborhood streets like Farley Road, they are not particularly safe for pedestrians day or night. Um do you have public safety concerns related to pedestrian safety for your congregants as well as the neighbors?

Uh obviously we want we are concerned that you know there is no kind of any kind of accident or anything like that. Part of the thing that we have done in order to mitigate that as much as possible is to have those traffic guards. We have a number of traffic guards that are directing traffic. One of the things we have done for example right now when we in Ramadan for example when we are using both driveways we ask uh the vehicles to turn left when they are exiting from the entryway and turn right when they're exiting from the exit way. And what we ask is our pedestrian traffic to actually cross the road in the middle of the facility and go on the far side in order to avoid essentially conflict with uh with the vehicles. I guess the reason I ask is the evening that I was out there, I didn't want to become a statistic for the neighborhood, but as I was driving toward Los Gatos Boulevard down Farley Road, one of your congregants, making sure to be on time, was hustling, probably parked at Affordable Treasures, was in dark clothing. I did not see him. Now, there was no close call, no brush, but I went, "Oh, what would a could have, should have happened here?" because I did not see him. And so, personally, I'm very concerned about public safety in general in that neighborhood, whether it's for your congregants

or it's for the neighbors themselves. So, thank you very much for that response. Yeah. Are there additional questions for the applicant, Commissioner Bernett?

So, just a quick question. So, I know Ramadan, it's a beautiful 30-day time every year uh for your congregation. And what what worries me a little bit is the sustainability of the numbers. I know some congregations and other faiths do actually reservations where they they make a time that you know how many people are coming and there's a limit. So, there's some way to control uh the amount of people, the amount of people attending your your festivities. whatever has that ever been maybe an option you think about.

Yeah. So, uh typically um as a faith community if somebody wants to come to the mosque as an example I don't know how to say to them no as an example. Now a lot of people for example we have members in our community who actually do not want to come to our facility because they don't want to kind of deal with and work and inconvenience the neighbors and so on. So they go to other facilities or don't come at all as an example uh in there. But in in general we try to basically tell people that listen uh we what we try to promote is make sure that if you come you follow all laws you behave well drive slowly make sure that if you're walking you're walking on far side of the street and making sure that everything that you're doing is in a safe manner and that's what we try to do.

Thank you for that. I was just thinking it would be sort of a comfort for the community to know that there would be a limit to the amount of attendance. Thank you. Are there further questions?

I have a couple. Um I have to wait till the end. So um I know that you've had a lot of conversations with the neighbors and we heard a lot tonight. So I want to go through a few things that as we start deliberating and talking um we understand for potential paths forward. Um obviously your neighbors have talked about the noise along I think it's the exit um there there are certain ways to mitigate noise that are better than just a fence such as a masonry wall that could be taller that absorbs a lot of car noise. Are there things such as that that you guys would be willing to do to help you know bring down the noise issue with your neighbor but also allow you guys to continue operating in the way you wish?

Uh we we have talked about that in the past. uh here uh in general you know masonary walls are actually from what I understand number one are extremely expensive number two they create kind of a fortlike uh structure effectively in that sense here and they really also bounce off sound especially on both sides if you will as well but the sound actually still continues to travel uh above it. So from everything that we have learned uh masonry walls are actually are not going to actually incrementally diffuse the sound even more on that. Having said that we are willing to consider other methods for example in order to block off shrubs, plants and things of that nature as an example on that.

Okay. Something else that I want to double check with too is there were some photos about the lighting out in your parking lot and all parking lot lights should be shielded. I don't know how old your pole lights are. Um, if we wanted to put into the conditions of approval that we ensure that those lights are shielded so the light is directed down instead of out,

would that be something you guys would be willing to do? Um, Chair Burch, I believe that already exists over here. So, if you look at um both uh 13C uh lighting, all site and parking lot lighting shall be full control, cut off, downward directed and dim to security levels during quiet hours. But if you think there is something else that we can we can do in order to make it even better, uh happy to consider happy to consider that. There was a time that we may uh may may have been at a different angle which was obviously causing some sense of uh you know light pollution over there but we have since adjusted that and we agree to the additional uh conditions uh of approval over here which will be full cut off downward directed especially during the quiet hours.

Okay. Thank you. Are there any further questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. We will now close the public portion of the public hearing. And before we begin um any motions or discussions, Miss Wheeling, could you just do a reminder of us that um obviously we'll go through questions of staff, but then as we move into discussion, how that is supposed to flow.

Yes. Um, and so, uh, the town council recently adopted the Rosenberg's rules of order, and so that requires a motion and a second before there is discussion. And that's the main difference, the main change. Um, and if the commission would find it helpful, um, I did make some notes during the various presentations if you would like staff's perspective on any of the issues that were raised. Great. So, we'll go through questions of staff, but before any discussion, there will be need to be a motion. Commissioner Stump.

Yeah. My question is, do we have any time to discuss what a motion would look like before we just lay it down on the table? Um, yes. When you're formulating the motion, you could um say, "I'm thinking about making the following motion." You know, would there be general support for that? All right. Any other questions of staff? Commissioner Stump. Well, I guess that's not a question. I'm sorry. I did ask a question of staff, but we now need to talk about a motion. Correct. No, we can ask questions of staff. Oh, so we'll go through questions of staff. Got it. But what I wanted to be clear was we do not move into discussion yet.

Got it. Just understand. Understand. Thank you. Yeah. I'm over it with Mr. Rosenberg. That's why I asked Commissioner Stump and then Commissioner

back to SQUA. It's been raised um a couple of times this evening by uh speaker by the attorney for the resident asked a question of the applicant and the applicant's attorney uh responded as well. uh we have an opinion that in you know environmental review should be conducted and that we should get outside council review. Have we done that at this point in time and and what is the opinion of town staff on squa? Um yes, we have been consulting with outside counsel along the way and um I do have a brief PowerPoint on um how the staff reached its determination regarding SQA and um so if the director could pull that up, I can walk the commission through how we reached our conclusion. Um and then while that's happening, I I well I'll do that first and then I think I might also address questions that came up regarding the town's noise ordinance.

Great.

Okay. Um, so I'm ready for the next slide, please. Next slide. Okay. So, the town is relying on SQA guideline section 15301, which is a categorical exemption from SQUA for existing facilities. And it applies when the operation or minor alteration of existing structure facility will involve negligible or no expansion of an existing or a former use. And so staff to look took a look at the current hours um of the West Valley Muslim Association and compared it with the new hours of operation that are being requested. And it's important to note that the existing conditional use permit does not contain any limitation on morning hours operation. Um the current CUP only limits evening hours of operation. And so we compared a 10:00 end time with the requested 11:00 end time and then during Robon the change from 11:00 to either 11:30 or midnight depending on the time of sunset. And we determined that those additional hours were a minor alteration in the existing operation that involved a negligible change in the existing use. And then um the town did receive a letter from the law firm of Hogue Fenton um asking you know what baseline the town was using. Um and so the town is relying on a case called uh Bloom versus Mgherk. And that requires that the town u make its secret determination based on the existing use that's in existence at the time that the determination is being made. And so staff is recommending that

the squa determination be made in conjunction with what the existing use is on the property currently in connection with the 2020 conditional use permit. Uh next slide please. Um, and so when a court reviews the use of a categorical exemption, the court will ask whether the decision was supported by substantial evidence in the record that the project involves negligible or no expansion of use. And as I mentioned, staff felt that the increase in hours was a negligible expansion of use. Next slide, please. Um, now there is a provision in SQA that's been discussed a bit tonight. Um and that contains two uh possible exceptions to the use of a categorical exemption. The first is when there are unusual circumstances present or cumulative impacts of a number of projects over time result in a significant environmental impact. Next slide please. Um, in order to use the unusual circumstances exception, there should be a reasonable possibility of a significant effect on the environment due to those unusual circumstances. Next slide, please. And cumulative impacts mean that the impact is significant when it's considered together with other related past, present, or future projects. and staff didn't feel that either of those exceptions um precluded the use of the categorical exemption. And in order to make an argument that one of those exceptions applies, um a person must produce substantial evidence that supports a fair argument that the exception to that exemption applies. Um and so in some staff looked at the facts of the existing uh conditional use permit and determined that based on the

negligible expansion of use the uh categorical exemption 15301 applied in this instance and so I can answer other SQA questions or I can go into the noise ordinance. Are there further SQA questions? Commissioner Sordy and then Commissioner Stump. Um, yeah, I think it was the speaker from Hog Fenton that suggested that because of the fact that there were standard environmental conditions included in the conditions of approval that that implied that some sort of environmental review beyond just a categorical exemption would be necessary.

Are you referring to the portion of um the talk where they were saying that you can't mitigate um an impact out of existence? Right. Right. And I'm thinking some about some of the operational traffic conditions.

Yes. Um so my take on that was um in the staff report there is a portion of the staff report that talks about about the findings that the commission needs to make in order to approve a conditional use permit. And um one of those find you know there's several findings. One is um would it negatively impact you know public health safety and welfare? Does it conform with the general plan? Um is it in the interest of the community etc. And so there is a discussion in the staff report about those four findings. And the conclusion was that with the proposed conditions um the project would be consistent um with the goals of the general plan. And so it was apples to oranges. We were talking about whether or not the project would conform with the town's general plan, which is a separate consideration of whether or not the SQA exemption applies.

Commissioner St. I'm going to make an assumption that when the planning commission considered the cup back in 2020 that this was our first mosque and that we really did not have a clear understanding of how they operate. Um and obviously in the COVID years they started up in the COVID years and so their use was very limited like most religious institutions. Um, you know, as I've been doing some calculations, um, why does the neighborhood see this as being truly impactful? Well, just based on numbers that I was provided tonight, their average attendance per week is 3,500 people. That would be I'm just dividing it by four using the the number would be 875 cars going to the mosque. If you look back at the prior religious institutions, um, average attendance at the Jehovah's Witness, and I' I've had to go to internet research, right? So, is it totally accurate? As accurate as it can be, I would suppose average weekly average weekly attendance was 350. Estimated cars for that would be 88 cars. And go back to First Baptist Church. Let's give them credit and say they had average attendance of 600 people across three services. Their estimated cars 150 over three different services. So when you look at that increase of vehicle traffic, um it's no wonder that the folks on Farley Road in that neighborhood feel a significant impact. and combine that with these expanse of the hours that are offered understandably to help to allow them to

um achieve their religious requirements. It's a huge impact. And so I I just think that that whole I looking at that impact back at that time, I just think it was probably missed that we'd say, well, what is that use going to be? And what is that use going to look like? And can this neighborhood handle 3,500 cars a week? 4,000. And the the good news from the mosque, good news and bad news, they appear to be growing. Awesome. But that growth is just going to continue to bring more congestion, more cars, more potential for public safety issues. And so I guess my my long question would be um does does this speak at all to anything related to squa as an exception as something we say gee that that should be looked at that's significant. Um the case law supports looking at the difference between the use as it exists on the day that the decision is being made against any change in the use that will come about as a result of the new land use approval. And so based on that staff felt that the increase in hours resulted in a negligible increase in use. Um, you know, reasonable minds can differ and the commissioners could take a different TAC. Um, if the commission feels that the categorical exemption is inapplicable, um, the next step would be for the applicant to prepare an initial study and the initial study would look at the, uh, any impacts to the environment posed by the new hours of operation, the change in the hours because the existing use already exists. Um and then based on that initial study either a negative declaration would be prepared or a mitigated negative declaration that had mitigation measures for to reduce or eliminate any significant environmental impacts um or

an environmental impact report and through the chair just to clarify um so the squa as you all know no longer looks at level of service so it's vehicle miles traveled um so it's a different threat threshold um than you know has been used in years past. So that would not even be a sequel impact in and of itself. Thank you for that clarification. I have a quick question just based on what you said. So I understand you said it would be measured based on the the day the decision was made and I assume you mean today with based on the existing use as of now.

Right now. Okay. Thank you. Um were there additional questions of staff? Vice Chair Bernett. Um, I have a a good number of them, so uh, please bear with me. I'm happy to, uh, I'll cut you off if I have to. There you go. No problem.

Um, what is staff's position regarding, uh, the legal opinion of Mr. Splendorio in his letter of November 4th last year that, uh, our lupia does not apply to this application. Um so my understanding of the letter is that um that firm is of the opinion that RUPA is not implicated because a denial of this proposed modification would not substantially burden the applicant and specifically the applicant's religious exercise. Um and so that is the threshold question. would restricting expanded hours sign substantially burden this form of worship? Um and then and so that firm has concluded that it would not. Um staff's view is that it would. Um but there are two other elements of that analysis. The next question is is there a compelling government interest at stake that needs to be protected? um and neighborhood compatibility has been held to be a compelling government interest. And then the third and final question is is the public entity imposing the least restrictive means to address that compelling government interest? And so, um, I think the, uh, attorney who spoke would end the question at the substantial burden question and town staff would end the question at, "Are we imposing the least restrictive means to address a compelling government interest?"

Okay. Thank you. And uh a further question is um to the knowledge of staff have any other religious institutions in Los been required to conduct a SQA analysis at any level as part of their CUP application? Thank you for the question. Um I at this time I'm not aware of any other religious institution who has been required to do an initial study um with a caveat of that they weren't requesting an expansion of their existing building. Thank you. Um I may continue.

Okay. Thank you. Um, explain why the standard parking uh space to floor ratio is not proposed as a condition. Thank you for that question. That condition was not included in the previous condition of approval. In other conditions of approval, it is included. So, the commission could have a discussion this evening about including that as a condition of approval.

Thank you. Um uh what is the uh we vis re visited this a little bit but what is the uh remind me what the occupancy rating for the premises and uh whether the current usage applies to that uh complies with it. Excuse me. Thank you for the question. Are you referring to what the fire occupancy amount is?

Yes. So, the fire department determined that the occupancy amount for a combined total of the three auditoriums is 869 people with chairs or 1,217 people with no furniture. Okay, thank you for that. Yeah, sure.

What is the process of going back to the fire department and re-evaluating that? And why do I say that? because that as I understand it is standing room only. It's a standing room only calculation. Um and we heard tonight that they are um not standing room only and then in some cases it would be like up to five you know 8 to 8 square ft which would get us back towards that 869. So I'm just wondering what is the process to have that re-evaluated? That's all I'm asking. I'm not trying to make a statement here tonight, but I just think from a public safety standpoint, um, the space needs to be evaluated appropriately, and I don't believe the fire department did

through the chair. Um, if the commission's interested, we can always go back and get additional information from the fire department. They do this for a living. Um, and so we generally rely on their expertise. Um, but if there's a need for additional information, we definitely can look at that uh and see if there's some other provisions. Yeah, I would appreciate that. Thank you. Go ahead. can do a couple more and then let's let Commissioner

Sordy uh what staff's uh thinking about adding language to the conditions of approval that would require the applicant to um uh submit a request submit its request for uh the parking lot um expansion within say 6 months and completed within say 12 months. I don't see any legal issues with adding that condition. Thank you. I'll pass Commissioner Sordy.

So, I just wanted to ask a clarifying question because we heard a lot of public testimony and we heard a lot of people talk about code violations repeatedly saying that this user is out of compliance. And they also been referenced to something called curfew on several occasions. And I would just want to get staff's um response to that. Are there any operating hours that apply specifically in the morning where we've had people repeatedly say that they're operating outside of operating hours? And is there a curfew of any type?

I can address that. Um in the existing conditional use permit, there's an evening end time. Um and during Ramadan that is 11:00 p.m. And we did have discussion with the applicant on whether the operating hours um until 11 p.m. included exit of vehicles. And so the existing conditional use permit says that operations will end by 11 p.m. Um the dictionary defines operations as the fact condition of functioning or being active. Um, and so taking that in conjunction with the original reason for the request, um, it's staff's position that the cars need to exit by 11 p.m. And the reason for that is in 2020 when the hours were extended, um, the applicant stated that the additional time until 11 p.m. was needed to allow vehicles time to exit. And so that was part of the reason for granting that extension of time. Um in the existing conditional use permit, there's no limitation addressing morning hours and so there's no limitations on ingress and egress. Um there was an instance in 2024 where the town received a complaint regarding noise from um the grate that was associated with the gate to the property. And um in staff's estimation, that did constitute a noise disturbance as defined by our town code um because it was a repetitive banging sound. And so we did contact the mosque and the mosque removed that piece of equipment um in order to eliminate that noise. So they addressed that problem. Um over this past Ramadan, uh the town's code compliance officer did receive a

complaint about cars exiting after 11 p.m. Um and he has issued a warning to the mosque. Um and he's preparing a citation for the mosque and let's so would it be helpful to have a definition of noise disturbance or do you feel like you have enough information? Yeah, just a clarifying question because the term curfew has been used and I don't know whether that relates to the operational hours. We had people speak to I think the 8 8 am to 10 p.m. Sorry, I think it's 10 p.m. to 8 a.m. daily. Yes. I guess that relates to the noise

or Yeah, it does. And so in in the town code, um there's a requirement that uh there be no noise disturbance between the hours of 10 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. And then um the town code defines the term noise disturbance. And so it's defined as any sound judged by a reasonable sane and competent person which occurs with such intensity, frequency, or in such a manner as to disturb the peace and quiet, endanger or injure personal or real property or violates the factors set forth in this ordinance. It shall include but not be limited to noise from the following sounds. PNS, this enumeration not being exclusive but only illustrative. The use, operation, playing of any radio, television, musical instrument or instruments etc. or any other devices for the production or reproduction of sound with louder volume than is necessary. The sounding of a horn, the operation of any machinery or tool, the continuous or recurrent acceleration of a motor vehicle or other engine while stationary, yelling, shouting, hooting, whistling, or singing on a public street. And then that section ends by saying compliance with the quantitative standards as listed herein shall constitute elimination of a noise disturbance. And so that is cross referencing the town's decibel limits.

Okay. And so just to clarify, it might seem a little obvious at this point, but video evidence of cars coming and going, say, between the hours of 5:00 a.m. and 8 a.m. on a daily basis unless they violate a noise standard, I would presume, does not does not provide evidence of non-compliance, right? Or that's correct. Because under the existing conditional use permit, there's no limitations on morning use of the property. And so that would include ingress and egress to the property. Thank you, Commissioner Mayor.

Sure. I I have a question for staff. Um, one concern that was brought up both by the neighbors and by the WVMA is uh pedestrian safety on Farley Road itself. Um, especially when there's uh traffic congestion and you know, just having visited the street multiple times. uh while researching this uh cup application, I I did notice that uh the road itself, you know, the everyone here has inherited the design from when this was originally planned. And it seems that with the concerns raised, there are areas uh that the town could potentially improve pedestrian safety on Farley Road, you know, including, you know, speed humps, better lighting, um regulation of uh parallel parking, whether that's permits or marked spaces or something else. Uh my question for staff is how do we discuss this in relation to the CUP application? Obviously, this is we're talking about the public right of way here and not the WB VMA private property. So, I just wanted to make sure that the commission is able to address these concerns that we've heard.

Um, the town does have the ability to impose conditions on a conditional use permit that are intended to address the impacts of that use. Um, and so sometimes jurisdictions will impose a requirement that an applicant install a sidewalk along their frontage um or install a street light or a traffic light. Um, and so the general rule of thumb is that whatever condition is imposed has to be uh reasonably related to the impacts of that use. And then in addition, it has to the expense of it has to be roughly proportional to the impacts that that particular use is creating. So for instance, if the town were to impose a requirement that this applicant um construct a sidewalk, um this applicant could only be required to pay for the portion of the sidewalk that would be used in proportion to the congregation members who would be using that sidewalk as as opposed to the residents. A follow-up question to that. Um, I'm not a a traffic engineer or a civil engineer and neither is commission. So, I don't How would that work if we wanted to have those discussions but needed the input of say the public works department?

Well, the public we have two representatives of the public works department here this evening. Um, and so usually a condition of that nature would be developed by staff and then presented to the commission. Could we ask public works to expand on that a little bit? Like how do how do you make those determinations or

So, thanks for the question, Gary Heap, town engineer. Um, there's a number of items I think that got uh discussed there. uh from sidewalk to street lighting to traffic calming. A lot of issues that got brought up by the neighborhood as well. I could go ahead and address those one at a time uh if you'd like. Um let's start with street lights. Uh the neighborhood itself, you know, as we I think we had indicated was built back in the 60s more than likely uh with lighting that was probably sufficient at the time. It's probably not now. Uh but we have several other neighborhoods throughout our community that are not well lit according to the folks that like to see a lot of lighting. Uh lighting is a very um what's the term I want to use? Um intrusive type of thing. Uh some people want lighting because of safety issues. Others don't want lighting because they like the the nature of their neighborhood uh that's relatively dark in the evenings and they don't want light obstructing uh their windows or their houses or their street even. Uh so it's very difficult for us to uh you know if if you're talking about safety determine if it's a safety thing or not, safety is a subjective thing as well. Um you know are there indications from our police department that there have been breakins? Is it a safety thing there? Is it a pedestrian safety issue? Because folks are walking on the shoulders uh during certain times of the evening. Um I don't think we've had any accidents that have been reported that are pedestrian related along there. So from that aspect, I would say, you know, there's not a safety concern. Wouldn't warrant the lighting. And again, we have several other areas in town that are lit very similarly. Uh sidewalks, the same type of thing. There are plenty of neighborhoods throughout town that don't have sidewalks where where people walk in the street and do so safely. Um, when there are cars parked there and sometimes when there are not. Um, I think you could make the argument that when cars are parked there, it's somewhat less safe than when when there

aren't cars parked there and people can walk on the shoulder. Um, I think we've heard from the testimony that we're talking about a very limited time when these things occur. Again, we haven't had any accidents or situations. I don't know if that necessarily warrants the construction of sidewalk along Farley to go ahead and address those types of things. The traffic calming um there have been traffic calming studies in the area. Mike Roman, my senior traffic engineer, can go ahead and answer some of those questions specifically. Uh but know that the criteria for putting in speed humps um in a in a neighborhood would be uh a thousand is it a thousand vehicles or 1300 vehicles? 1500 vehicles per day. Um we've done counts out there uh on I believe it was Flint Ridge. There was a request a number of years ago and we did not hit that threshold uh for for vehicular um traffic or for volume. There's also a speeding criteria uh 5 miles over the posted speed limit which is actually low for a number of communities. Um and and again that would have us be looking at speeds in excess of 30 miles an hour. Uh and what we've seen out there through some of the studies that we've done are speeds are relatively low in the 26 to 27 mph range. So would not qualify for for speed humps either. So um we've looked at the and evaluated based on what we're seeing out there and we just don't see a need for any improvement uh based on an engineering and a public works perspective. I hope that answers your question. Was really long and winded. I apologize for that.

No, no, that does help. Yeah. Go ahead, Vice Chair. Could you address the suggestion of striping the street so that the two-way traffic is a little more safe?

Sure. Um, I think there was a couple striping things that we we had talked about and heard about. Uh, center line striping, I think, was one and the other was parking TE's. Um, you know, any kind of striping we put down is not anything that lasts forever. Um, it's something that has to be maintained and and cost the town money to go ahead and not only install, but to reapply on a regular basis. Uh from the perspective of parking T's, uh we typically don't put them down because it's again an extra added expense. It's something that the neighbors when I've seen it done in other communities tend to see that as more of a commercial application. And when you look at the amount of cars that can park on a street with and without parking Tes, you can actually fit in more cars uh without parking Tes because uh a lot of cars don't need that full 20, you know, 18 to 22 foot length uh than a parking tee would provide. And so you can get in more cars parked on a street curb frontage or street frontage without parking T's. Um, centerline striping is something we could certainly look at, but again, that's typically managed or or installed for high volume locations where there are higher speeds. And through the chair, just one more added complication with any like public improvement. Um, looking at the map, there's a number of properties on in that section of Farley that haven't done the complete dedication. So, as projects come through, it appears to be an additional 10 ft on both sides. that is the ultimate right ofway width and I want to say I recall it being a total of 60 ft. Um so you know that's another complication with looking at you know acquiring property potentially uh for added improvements.

Okay, thank you. Um do you have a followup? Go ahead, Commissioner. I mean, thank you for the explanation of the objective criteria used to evaluate these various street improvements. But I think the issue raised by especially the neighbors was the situation when there is uh uh parallel parked cars up and down the street on both sides plus two-way traffic and that creating a hazard for pedestrians. I'd like to know more about what the engineering approach to a problem like that would be if there is any

there. You know, we always want to look at um again Gary Heath public works. We always want to look at what the ultimate width of the roadway is. We've went out and did some measurements. Um you've got soft shoulders on both sides of the majority of Farley. Uh but in in looking at a couple different cross-sections, we had roughly 40 plus feet um of width out there uh usable space. So if you're looking at se seven maybe 8 ft uh for the width of a park parked car uh and I'm getting to your question. I'm sorry I have to explain the numbers first. Uh and you're looking at roughly a 10 foot travel lane for residential areas. You're looking at, you know, what is it? Eight, eight, 10, and 10 is uh roughly 30 36 feet. Thank you, Mike. Mike's helping me calculate things over here. So, roughly 36 feet. So, you you've got four additional feet. Now, does that provide additional width for safe passage of pedestrians? Again, safe passage of pedestrians is kind of a subjective thing. We'd have to look back at have there been any accidents, have there been any reported close calls? Um, you know, with with the way that the vehicular traffic works out there during the entrance and the exit, you know, if you've got a lot of cars coming in on the entrance, they're on one side of the street would be on the north side of Farley. Uh, so pedestrians could probably walk pretty safely on the south side. Similarly, as cars are exiting from the I guess it would be western driveway, uh, they're traveling on the right side of the road again, the north side. So if if what I heard from the congregation uh is that folks are crossing to then the south side and walking along uh the street uh yes there are parked cars there but there typically wouldn't be vehicular traffic uh on both sides of the street. So I'd provide additional width for some safe passage through there. So again my opinion is that I don't think there's an unsafe situation out there. Um and that

uh uh again we haven't had any record or any notice that we've had any unsafe uh issues. Bill Curry, other questions of staff, Commissioner Stump and Vice Chair,

might as well continue with public works. Um obviously we've heard concerns by the residents about parking and and certainly even the the congregants have done tried to do their best not to park in driveways. Uh it's dark, very dark. So they have a tendency to do that from time to time. Um there's concern about the the massing of off- streetet parking. Um so my question is from a resident perspective, what options do they have through the town of Los Gats to address parking in their neighborhood? Right now we h Well, we have a residential parking permit program. Uh it's being revamped right now. We hope to have it rolled out and approved in the next several months. Uh but that residential permit parking uh is typically around high impact areas that occurred during the day, schools, commercial areas, and the like that then are supported by our police department in terms of that enforcement. Right now, our enforcement for parking is only until 6 PM. And so, if there's an issue with night parking, it really wouldn't be able to be served by our um residential parking permit program unless we could have uh enforcement by our police department past those normal hours. And so, we would have to really talk to our police department, see if about expanding the hours. That's something we can talk about in our residential parking per program as we're developing that and again bringing that forward for approval. But I I will tell you right now that uh 6 o'clock is is what is the stated time for ending of parking enforcement.

Need to get detailed, but does it say that on the sign up until 6 p.m. because the police will not site you or does it just still say permit parking? I don't remember. I don't see anything on a sign that says Yeah. Yeah. As Mike indicated, some of our signs have it's inconsistent. Okay. Some of the signs have ours, some of the signs don't. Part of the reason we're revamping the program is for consistency and making sure we have consistent messaging throughout the community. Thanks. Further questions of staff.

Um I have a couple. There was a couple comments about um the approval of an application like this setting precedence for the town and I would like um staff or Miss Wheelen to address how future applications would be looked at in relation to this. Um what comes to mind is RUPA has the provision that uh local jurisdictions have to treat uh religious uses on equal terms with non-religious uses and can't discriminate amongst um various denominations. So um I think it would be presidential to the extent that another uh religious facility had similar hours of worship. Um, I don't think it would be presidential if another uh religious use did not have the sim a similar need for prayers at those same hours. Okay. Um, my other question is for public works. There's a couple or a comment about having like a fire marshall review the site or the street. Did we have police or fire um maybe look at the street and assess their opinion of any risk of maybe emergency evacuation or emergency vehicles having access?

Thank you for the question, Gary Public Works again, and I'm going to go ahead and quote from a uh email that we received uh as staff on March 25th from Kenny IP, who is one of our fire um fire. He's not. He's one of our fire marshals. Um basically saying um when parking is permitted on on street, both residential and commercial applications, it shall conform to the following. Parking is permitted on both sides of a street. If a street width is 36 feet or more and then it goes on to talk about if it's less than that, then parking is allowed on one side. If it's less than that, then no parking. So 36 ft is the criteria that the fire department looks at for parking on both sides of the street to be permitted and also then provide access uh along those streets and as we've indicated our measurements are that we have 40 ft of clear width along Farley there. So from that would I would go ahead and indicate that based on what I'm seeing from the fire department that they don't have any issue with circulation. Now, in terms of evacuation, in terms of some of those other things, um access to and the like, I really can't address that. Uh those those comments would have to come from our fire department.

Thank you. As a followup to that, do we have any street width issues in that neighborhood? Whether it might be Frank, uh Flint Ridge, um Azora, um I know you said you took some measurements out there. I couldn't quite tell by eyeballing it when I was out there if we did have 36 feet, which is absolutely right. You got to have 36 feet according to California Vehicle Code, California Fire Code to park on both sides of the street. So, do we have any width issues out there? We did measurements along Farley in a couple different sections. I do not believe we did any measurements along Azoro or along Frank. Okay. Thank you.

Any further questions of staff? Commissioner Bernett. Yes, thank you. So, two questions. Has there been any cost uh to the town for regulating the traffic during high traffic times, peak hours at around the Ramadan period, or have we had to put more police out there? And was that a cost to the town?

Thank you for the question. I'll start. Um I'm not aware of the staff adding additional police, but we also don't have police presence here this evening to clarify that. In terms of uh Ramadan, the applicant at their own expense um has hired traffic guards to assist with that.

Thank you for that. And I have one follow-up question. In my readings, um, it was brought up that some of the attendants that are, um, you know, having, you know, making controlling the traffic going into the parking lot that they actually need to be certified or they have to, you can't just have someone um, be an attendant that has no experience in that background. It was brought up in many of the some of the reports that you they actually should be certified or have some training in the direct in directing traffic.

Um I'm not familiar with any laws on that point, but that's definitely a condition of approval that could be added.

Thank you, Mr. Stump. This is my opinion, but my opinion is Farley Road's disaster waiting to happen from a public safety standpoint. And I realize that when something does happen, we go would a could a shoulda. Uh we did significant work over on Shannon Road. Call it the Shannon Road improvement project. Major artery to Fiser and other schools. Kids walking. Very similar rural rural kind of road. Uh, no shoulders or excuse me, no gutters, no sidewalks. In fact, awesome job. I run on that quite often. Um, I look at the mosque and I believe this is going to continue to grow in the town of Los.

Do you have a question for staff in this? Okay. Yeah. So my question is, could you explain how a street improvement project for Farley Road, what it would take to progress, you know, a project or at least get a project on the board? I realize it's long-term, takes years, probably get a grant, etc. But what's the process?

Thank you for that question, Gary. Heap again public works um parks and public works to do to put a CIP project together which is what you're talking about a capital improvement project uh we would have we would look at um basically there would be a cost issue uh we would have to look at the design but we'd also I think really start by looking at how that prioritizes with other areas in town. Uh the Shannon Road project that you referenced and and thank you for for the nice words about that project. We're we're pretty happy with it and proud of it as well. um that really was identified in our bike and ped master plan. It's something that's heavily utilized by several schools in the area and uh there were issues with kids walking and riding in in the in the streets with a lot of traffic on a roadway that is a significant collector that has higher speeds and that has um uh you know higher volumes as well. And so for a number of reasons that project took precedent and it was a high priority for the town. Um, we would have to look at how Farley and the improvements that might be recommended on Farley would go ahead and compare with other uh, you know, improvements that we would have in town. Uh, what funding was available for those and then we'd have to uh, schedule a capital improvement project. Um, you know, basically at the discretion of the council.

I have a related question um, just for our own knowledge. Once something is put on as like a recommendation for a capital improvement project, what is the typical duration to see if it's approved to see it actually completed?

So, right now we have a 5-year CIP. So, we go ahead and we plan out for five years. Uh we we ask for funding for that first year of the program or the plan. uh we deliver those projects and then as we're then going into that next fiscal year, we make sure we can address those projects that are being put forward for funding because funding is pretty important here for the town and then look again at the next four or five years and see where we're at. Um there are a number of projects that are already programmed out, projects that are higher priority projects that are coming out of our bike and ped master plan uh and being generated through other means and other other master plan documents. We would have to look at um specifically if you're asking about Farley specifically, we would have to look at that, see where that falls in that priority. Um I'm not sure how it would be prioritized compared to some of our other uh council driven types of priorities, especially when it comes to bike and ped safety uh in areas that are really around schools and higher pedestrian areas.

Okay. But we're safe to say not within five years. If if if we were to the council were to direct us to go ahead and do improvements along here, we could look at uh putting that in uh within our 5-year program. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions of staff? I have a question. Yes, Commissioner Bernett.

Thank you. So, um, we have a lot of CUP's conditional use permits in our town. And speaking basically of like Hillbrook, there's, um, limits to the amount of automobiles that can come and go. In fact, we've monitored it quite closely. They come before the planning commission once a year and we, you know, evaluate if they're within their the numbers that are under, you know, that conditions of use of the CUP. So, how is that different with this one? Is there a way can we put a limit on the number of cars? Can you put a limit on the number of attendees? Is there any way to control the the magnitude of of attendance or automobiles?

Um, so the conditional use permit does authorize the town to impose conditions that would address the impacts of the use. And with this particular project, I would recommend running any proposed condition through that rela analysis. And so the first question would be does it impose a substantial burden on the facility? And then the second question would be um is the condition needed to address a compelling government interest. And third, is it the least restrictive means of accomplishing that goal? So like following up like that, could there be language around, you know, the number of people like four per number of vehicles that can be parked on the site or something? And would that have to be studied or

um I'll start and then others can follow. But um in my opinion, it would be legally defensible to take the number of people that are assumed per car and then consider the number of spaces in the parking lot and then multiply the number of parking spaces by the number of people assumed to be in each car and limit attendance to that amount. to be clear that that's limiting number of people we're may that probably doesn't mean everybody has to be parked on the site.

Um so one option would be to uh limit the number of attendees to those who can park on the site. Um, another option would be to allow the off-site parking and then have either a shuttle service or some safe way for people to get from that off-site parking location to the facility in the event of overflow parking.

One more followup on that. Have we ever worked with an organization or anything to, for example, they have an agreement with Affordable Treasures to at least have them show proof that they're attempting to create agreements with other parking lots or facilities for their overflow? Um, so I haven't encountered this in Lascatos, but in other jurisdictions, the condition of approval will typically say, um, demonstrate proof of a lease with another location to accommodate X number of cars and demonstrate that annually. And so the jurisdiction would not be involved in the negotiation or the selection of the other site, but it would be the obligation of the permit.

Okay. Thank you. Is there any further questions of staff? Not. I just want to remind everybody before we go into conversation or deliberation, we do need to have a motion on the table and we need it seconded. Correct. That's correct.

Does anybody care to make an initial motion? Vice Chair Barnett? Uh, I'll make the motion with the preface that on my six years on the planning commission, I haven't seen number one uh the opposing parties being so polite and and respectful for others. So, I wanted to compliment you on that. And also in my six years, it's the most uh um difficult decision because of legitimate concerns on both sides which uh I think have been recognized um uh tonight and also the um conflicting legal opinions that we've seen from the neighbors and from the mosque. But we need to move forward and at least get a motion uh on the table and see if it gets seconded so we can have some discussion. So, my motion is uh concerning item one on tonight's calendar, which is a request for approval uh to modify an existing conditional use permit for expanded hours of operation in an institution for religious observance West Valley M uh Muslim Association on property zone R18 located at 16769 Farley Road, APN 42421062. I move to approve the draft resolution which is exhibit two to the staff report on pages 23 to 26 which includes the required findings for approval of the request to modify the existing uh use permit uh for expanded hours of operation and approval of this resolution constitutes approval of the application subject to the condition of approval set forth on attachment A pages 27 to 31 of the staff report and additional uh conditions uh as follows. That condition 17 on driveway operation be amended to add the applicant is

authorized to remove the existing right turn uh right turn only sign at the exit driveway. Uh two, that the applicant provide contact information for multiple board members and staff at all times and explore setting up a single phone uh number that uh routes all of them and the information shall be posted on the uh applicant's website as well. Uh three, that the applicant shall request the uh Loscatus Monoseno Police Department to increase patrols and place an electronic speed sign placement on Farley Road during Ramadan. Uh four, that the application uh the applicant uh shall submit its application for the parking lot expansion within 6 months and complete the improvements um within 12 months. And five, the applicant shall meet and confer with staff in good faith concerning the construction of additional fence height to mitigate uh light pollution. And uh six, that the compliance with the conditions of approval shall be reviewed annually by the planning commission. uh that parking lot attendants be uh trained by the police or another appropriate safety agency and that um the fire department conduct an occupancy uh analysis uh based on the conditions of approval and um it I think that's it. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. Do we have a second to the motion? You guys are going to have to remind me where we go from here. Does somebody make a If somebody wants to make another motion, they can.

Up to three motions can be on the table at any one time. Okay. Do we have any discussion about the current motion or a second motion? The problem is my motion would take a little time to explain. Okay.

Um, first of all, I want to say that very appreciative of the desk items we got today. Once again, it shows the level of engagement and folks making positive suggestions on how to come to I I hope ultimately a win-win situation. Couple of things that I picked up in here. a concern is are we expediting approval rather than resolving incompatibilities with with the way we're going. Uh the attorney for um the West Valley Muslim Association also said, "Hey, there there's a potential to work with the town on street improvements." Aa yeah, let's do that. Um the um M m excuse me, West Valley Muslim Association got together with neighbors again on Sunday to continue dialogue. I really think those were appropriate. Um the applicant's main concern of course is getting authorization for their hours of operation to be expanded both outside of Ramadan and during Ramadan and that's what their members have primarily addressed in public comments. The neighbors main concerns are tied to public safety and health, including volume of traffic, parking, pedestrian safety, light pollution, parking light and headlights, and noise. U before the CUP is finalized and voted on, I would like to propose mediation between the parties. This would be a formal mediation so that both sides are clearly heard and actions are documented and committed to because I want to avoid one party wins and one party loses. And that's what I'd like to see this next step. Now, this is voluntary. So, I have to look out at the group here tonight and say, would you voluntarily be willing to go to mediation to further discuss and create actions and perhaps

even something that looks like an agreed upon CUP by all parties. Now, remind reminder, this is our applicant for the cup. Um, and so it's our responsibility to work with the applicant, but certainly the applicant can take input. So, again, my motion would involve continuing this hearing to a date certain perhaps for example in June so that mediation could be completed voluntary mediation could be completed and basically reported back to the planning commission at that time and then we can consider if the mediation is successful touchdown if it's not successful we're back to probably a motion that um commissioner um Barnett has put forward. So, I would be glad to turn that into a motion, but I think before we even do that, we would need to get a sense from the parties if they would be open to voluntary mediation.

Can I open the public hearing to have the applicant come up to answer that? I think I would only be able to ask the applicant. Um, yes, but my recommendation is opening the public hearing to hear from a representative from both the applicant and the neighbors.

All right. So, we will reopen the public portion of the hearing specifically for this item and we need a representative from the applicant and a representative the neighborhood. The applicant could please come forward and I think you've heard the discussion from Commissioner Stump. I believe it's a little bit of a yes or no question, but could you I don't care who comes forward, but could somebody come forward? So again, this is very specific to the item that was put in front of us of the agreement to enter in some type of mediation.

Um, I'll answer the question with the one word, but I'll tell you my concern though uh here. uh we will be absolutely willing to do mediation as what we have been always trying to do and reach out. However, we are concerned that this elongates the process. We have been at it for a long time and I don't think we have made progress over there. So, we're concerned that this just creates more tension and uh for our community and uncertainty for our community. But if this is what the commission wants u reluctantly, yes. Right. Thank you. representative from the neighbors.

I would very much uh appreciate that kind of mediation because um just from our talks with them, it's been at a standstill. So I think it would be very helpful to have like a formal mediation. Um, and it would be great if we could be looked at as one of the first towns in the country that can come together and uh really make a difference and both, you know, live harmoniously in this neighborhood. Right. Thank you. All right. So, we're going to reclose the public.

Can I just make one quick comment? We need the mediator need to be familiar with things like RuPA and uh also be familiar with the religion as well. I have questions of staff regarding that. So yes. All right. So I'm going to reclose the public portion of the public hearing. And now I am going to ask a question of staff. If we have something like this on the table, how do we ensure that the person that would be involved in the mediation would be familiar with these very specific issues? Um the motion could include that requirement.

Okay. And you know, the more specialized the mediator, the more expensive. And so I I do think there should be discussion on who will pay for the mediation. Yeah, that was going to be part of my question, too. Commissioner Bernett.

Yes. And on this point, I would I would recommend that maybe a baseline or or starting point could actually be the nine suggestions by uh the attorney Sabine Sabine. Um, I think her recommendations were very good and maybe that could be the start of a conversation because it does give guidelines. It sort of addresses all the the highlights of where most of the issues are and it could be a starting point of conversation. Okay. To the maker of the motion, how are you going within this motion to propose who is paying for this? Could staff speak to that a little bit? I mean, in this particular case, we're we're actually asking two parties to get together and enter into a mediation and more than likely not on the town's dime. I can start and u be brief. The town's fee schedule to my knowledge does not have um any mechanism to collect and fund um outside mediation.

That's my understanding too. Um so one option would be to ask the applicant to pay since this is coming out of an application for a conditional use permit modification. Does the maker of the motion have a comment on that? I'm sorry. Did you say the applicant pay or Yes. And there's no legal requirement that the applicant pay, but that seems logical since the applicant is asking for the CUP modification.

Okay. Um so I move to continue this hearing to a date certain in June. Date to be determined. Assuming the mediation would be completed um with a a mediator that is experienced in Rupa and um that the applicant will pay the cost of the mediation and then I do recommend confirming with the applicant that that that they're open to paying because otherwise the mediation won't happen. Okay,

understand. Okay. So, I'm going to open the public portion of the public hearing only to ask the applicant this specific question. We'd be willing to only split it. I don't think it's fair for us uh to pay for it if if it we have to pay the entire thing. We would like to have a decision today if possible. Right. Thank you. We reclose the public portion of the public hearing. Yeah. Commission, Vice Chair Barnett,

problem I see with um splitting the fees is that u neighborhood is not bound together although the you've commented together uh on a number of matters but uh they're disperate views within the community uh of the neighbors and um from my standpoint it would be very difficult for them to um achieve a an equal uh contribution. Um um certainly they could some could agree to pay uh all of it, but um that would be a concern of mine and I don't have an answer to it.

Commissioner Bernett.

Yeah, I I would just want fairness. I would want representation for the the neighborhood as well as for the mosque. fair and balanced that if you have a lawyer or I know there is a like a neighborhood alliance or group that have gathered and and maybe have paid the fees for their current legal representation and maybe that would be their source and the source for representing the mosque. I don't know. But I think it's it's necessary that it's it's fair and equal in the the medi mediation that they're represented properly.

Commissioner S, I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean, I realize there's a there's a group that's called the Farley Road, excuse me, neighborhood coalition, and I realize you're not a legal entity. uh you've certainly have invested money to this point uh with your own legal counsel. Um you and again do we have to open up public comment again if I'm going to ask this question? Yes. Okay.

Yep. So I guess I will open the public portion of the public hearing again for a representative of the neighborhood to speak to this. By the way, you can have a minute to talk amongst yourself about this. Yep. if you have a representative. Yes.

So, I guess to ask my question, would the Farley Road Neighborhood Coalition be willing to agree to some split and I guess we could leave that to the parties, but to some split of the cost for mediation. Um, in this brief discussion, we are not inclined at this time to answer yes or no because we have no idea how much an expert um, as the town council has alluded to would cost for somebody who is extremely specialized and we'd like to also consider the fact that the applicant assume part of the burden since they are asking for the change and we are not. We are trying to protect what we have. That answer your question sufficiently?

Yes. Thank you. I will reclose the public portion of the public hearing. Um, so I will I'm going to ask a question of staff. If we have some discussion and this feels like the way the commission wants to go, how do we perhaps allow time for them to determine that cost and how that split would come and then come back to staff with the solution to this that then comes up to a date certain meeting. If we can even do that. You might say that's impossible.

Um, I'll start and others might have other suggestions, but one option would be to continue this meeting um to give the applicant and um the neighbor group an opportunity to look at options for a mediator and how much it would cost and to give further thought to whether they're they think mediation would be fruitful. Um and then to return to the planning commission at a date certain. Mr. Bson, anything to add or Oh, that's definitely one path.

Okay. All right. Um I think we need a mo we'll see. We have a motion. I think we need this seconded to continue in order to have further discussion. Correct. That's correct. Okay. So, is there a second? All right. I'll second that. Seconded by Commissioner Bernett. So now let's have discussion. How do the my fellow commissioners feel about the motion on the table um with the idea that there could be a set a date certain to allow there to be conversation between the neighborhood coalition and the applicant concerning this item? I'm gonna go down the row. Commissioner Stump.

Yeah. Let me just clarify. We're talking about the motion that I put forward, right? Yeah. Which doesn't sound like it's going to be acceptable to the the the applicant has said they do not want to pay for the uh mediation. However, as part of that, there was the question to staff. Yes. That if we wanted to Is that a third motion though? Potential. Would that be a third motion? It be a third motion. Yes. cuz I thought I had heard someone make that motion, but if not, um, a motion would be required to continue this meeting uh to a date certain to allow the uh two parties to discuss the possibility of mediation.

So moved. Okay, there you go. Is there a second to what is now the third motion? Commissioner Shorty, thank you. All right, so now some discussion. Commissioner Shorty, anything to add? Uh, no, nothing to add. All right, Vice Chair Barnett, it seems like a um reasonable way to go forward if there's a possibility of having an amicable agreement uh where both sides are unhappy. That's the the mark of a good uh settlement. Commissioner Bernett,

yes, I agree. I I have um problems with the findings that I couldn't support. So I think this is a good way to move forward on it based on my observations questions. Um so okay commissioner mayor

um it's an unconventional proposal but uh I agree with it. I think this might be one of the best paths forward to, you know, anyway, I think we would vote tonight would not make everyone happy. So more room and space to have discussion. All right. So, do I need a call before we set a date certain if there is if this was to pass?

Um, I recommend that the motion include the date and so um perhaps the director could give a sense of when a reasonable time to return would be. I think probably 4:22 is the earliest, April April 22nd. And if we're not there yet, we can continue it to a further date. Right. So, is it okay if I just add that date to the motion? Please do. Yes. All right. And the second of the motion. Is that acceptable? Yes, that's acceptable. All right. So then I'm going to call the question. All in favor? All right. This passes unanimously. And I assume since this is a continuence, there are no appeal rights. Any further followup?

That's correct. Thank you. All right. Awesome script here. Well, we're not done. We're actually not done. She's got to change the Everybody, we're actually not done with this, folks. We're actually not done. So, if you guys want to talk, please go ahead and just exit and let us wrap up the meeting, but we're almost there. We're so close. Okay. All right. So, are the reports from the director of community development?

Uh, no. No, not not this evening. All right. Are there any subcommittee reports? No. And are there any commission matters to discuss? Okay. Now we're adjourned. Thank you.