City Council - Regular Meeting

Happy. Heat. Heat.

Hey.

Heat. Heat. N.

Good evening. I would like to call tonight's meeting of the Tacoma Park City Council to order. Would the clerk please call the role? Council member Landman. Council member Dybala present. Council member Schel here. Council member Gilbert. Council member Hanzac present. Council member Wesle here. Mayor Cersei

here. Um we have a couple of council members um that may be able to join us remotely um but we're not exactly um sure. Unfortunately, Council Member Lamman is under the weather tonight. Um and Council Member Gilbert has suffered a family loss. So um we are keeping them both in our thoughts um positive thoughts and prayers. And so for tonight um we have um our agenda is our uh legislative update. Um we will be joined by Ann Secott who is our legislative advocate. Um we'll also have two presentations this evening. The first is the grants review committee report on food insecurity reduction grants and recommendations for FY27 community quality of life funding priorities. Um and then we also have a presentation on the W six traffic study final report. Um we have uh three voting items this evening. The first is a single reading ordinance authorizing expenditure of Maryland facade improvement grant funds for the Tacoma Park facade improvement program. Uh the second is a second reading ordinance amending Tacoma Park code chapter 14.12 noise. And the third is a resolution affir affirming support for employee access to stress management and peer support. Um just for my colleagues information um due to a couple of uh council members not not being in and I want to make sure that everyone has some more time to talk about this. Uh we are moving the resolution regarding the council compensation committee recommendations. Um that vote will happen next week. The uh work session this evening is a count um city council term limit discussion. We'll continue that. And then on Wednesday, March the 4th, the council meeting will start at 7:30.

We begin with a legislative update again from our legislative advocate and seccott. And then we will have three presentations next week. The first is a metropolitan Washington co um council of governments DMV moves uh resolution request. Uh so COG will be joining us. Uh the urban forest managers report and the tree commission's annual report. Uh we will also have uh a couple of voting sessions. The first is the DMV moves resolution. Second is a resolution regarding community quality of life grant priorities for FY27. Uh resolution updating the status of recommendations to the council by the task force to reimagine public safety and the resolution regarding council compensation committee recommendations. Uh we will also have two work sessions that evening. The first is code amendment um regarding outdoor cafes and the second is the ordinance approving the purchase of two replacement pickup trucks a and recision of prior approval. On Thursday, March the 5th, uh the city council will convene in close session um regarding the audit Cooper v. City of Tacoma Park and that will be at 6:00 p.m. and on I think that is just trying to make sure. Yes. Um Yep. I think that's Well, nope. I think I need to keep reading. Uh on Wednesday, uh March the 11th, the council is tentatively slated to uh meet in a closed session to discuss safety protocols and that is at 6:30 the auditorium. And then on Wednesday, March the 11th, the council will meet at its regular time of 7:30. We'll begin with the legislative update

um from our uh legislative advocate. Uh we will have two consent agenda items. The first is the ordinance resending prior approval of purchase of two pickup EV trucks. Ordinance 2025-35. Um and then an ordinance approving the purchase of two replacement pickup trucks. Uh and then we will have a voting session on outdoor cafes ordinance followed by two work sessions. The first is traffic calming sidewalk CIP recommendations and uh council term lengths. Um and I believe on Monday, March the 16th through Wednesday, March the 18th, the uh National League of Cities Congressional City Conference will take place in Washington DC. And I know that a couple of my colleagues will be attending that. And on Monday, March the 16th, the council, city council will have a public hearing at 6:30. And the public hearing is on proposed charter amendment regarding council term limits. And with that, sorry, just want to make sure that I apologize. I'm thumbming through paper to make sure I have a version the document to read. Okay. Okay, I'm going to move on while I get my computer reconnected to the internet. Um, tonight we are before we jump into

official business, uh, we have been joined by our scouts. work that you all are doing in commitment to service. I wanted to make sure also that they could see themselves on television. Um, and so I heard that uh the scouts have convinced a couple of my colleagues about the importance of the city having an official candy. Yeah.

And may or may I be recognized? Yes. Council member Dala. Thank you. I would like to uh make a motion uh based on the discussions that we had with the scouts earlier and the and the vote that they recommended. I would like to move that uh the city candy be Reese's pieces. I would like to second that motion. Thank you. All those in favor of the Could we have discussion? Point of discussion.

That is my my role here. Um could we more generally designate Hershey's candy perhaps so that we could reduce the amount of uh say controversy around KitKats versus Reese's. And you weren't even here. Oh, I'm not supposed to say it. I was in the audience for the debate. I I I I hear you, Council Member Schlaggel. I guess my main concern is that that then does not leave us with one official candy. And I I do believe that the scouts have spoken and agree that that candy should be Reese's pieces.

Thank you. I will withhold further comment. Any other points of discussion? Yes, I have. Council member Hanzac,

it is true that there were several other ideas, but the problem is is that I haven't done my research and I don't know if they are all Reese's. I mean, all different Hershey's brands, but there was what? Starburst, KitKat, and and Peppermints and Peppermints. And I'm not sure if they're all made by that same company. So, I want to defer to my constituents since I'm a W five representative and many of them live in my ward. if you don't mind and I'd like to speak on their behalf and I would I would like to uh go go back to my second and I and I um motion I move to uh to vote. May I do so?

Thank you very much. Uh seeing that there are no more lights, I just want to confirm that there are no no additional points of discussion on the matter. All right, with that we're going to make this extra official. Would the clerk please call the role? Council member Landman. Council member Dybala. Yes. Council member Schlaggel. Absolutely. Council member Gilbert. Council member Hanzac. Yes. Council member Weslech. I. Mayor Cersei. Hi.

Thank you very much to our scouts for encouraging us to move forward with an official candy. And with that, I would like to invite you all up on stage for a photo.

They look tickled. Y this we're going all in.

Love the story here. Say bye. Thank you so much.

You too.

Um Yeah. All right. Well, that was fun. All right. So, we're going to move into our agenda this evening. Um, but I do need to read out um the close session summary from February the 20th. Um, on February 20, 2026, the city council convened in the community center council conference room at 6:12 p.m. to vote to enter into close session pursuant to Maryland code 3-305BI and or um section 3-305B7 to meet with the attorney auditor conducting the audit related to to Cooper v. City of Tacoma Park. The meeting was closed to protect the attorney client privilege and to enable the council to discuss personnel matters related to one or more specific individuals. Council member Lanman moved to convene in close session. Council member Hanzac seconded the motion. The motion carried. Voting for Mayor Cersei, Council members Lman, Dybala, Schlaggel, Gilbert, Hanzac, and Weslech. Present for the closed meeting were Mayor Cersei, council members Lamman, Dybala, Schlaggel, Gilbert, Hanzac, and Weslec, city clerk Carpenter, deputy city manager Hupty, and attorney/

auditor Bernardet Sergeant of Stinson LLP on Zoom. The council sought and received advice from Miss Sergeant on the context of discussing the personnel matters raised in the auditor's report. Miss Sergeant left the meeting at 8:00 p.m. The council continued discussing personnel matters. The council determined that it was necessary to schedule another close session for March 5th or 6th to discuss personnel matters and receive legal advice. No other actions were taken. The meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m. The council did not reconvene in open session after the meeting. Okay. And with that, we are going to move into our legislative update. Is an available?

Yes, I am here. Wonderful. Good evening. Looks like y'all are having some fun tonight.

Sorry, I'm not there with you. Um so uh we are almost at the halfway point of the legislative session and uh things are moving quickly and there are lots of bills and lots of hearings. Um the mayor was present and gave testimony yesterday on the bill to that is the priority bill for the Maryland Municipal League this session to create a task force to look at municipal municipal revenue structures um to try to um you help all municipalities uh be able to have more flexibility and authority when it comes to revenue decisions. uh and and options. So, that hearing I think went well. Um the sponsor of the bill uh is District 20's delegate Janelle Wilkins who is also chair of the committee in which the bill was heard. So, uh we like the chances. So, um that went well. And then tomorrow, Mayor Cersi will be back at Annapolis to testify on another delegate Janelle Wilkins bill, the good cause eviction legislation. Uh the panels for tomorrow's hearing ought to be pretty impressive, I think. Uh and there are quite a few pages of witnesses testifying in favor of the bill. there's still the opposition um that that comes from uh the usual organizations and u but we are also reminded that the house has passed this legislation before and so it really is about trying to get the Senate uh and our senator uh Will Smith to uh move the bill out of the Senate as well. So we're keeping keeping on uh working that trying to get that through this session.

Uh the city has also weighed in on a number of other bills uh this last week uh including uh supporting legislation related to data privacy when it comes to immigration enforcement uh extending the pilot for the community choice aggregation uh program and uh led uh testimony in the opposite chambers on things that we've weighed in on before related to face coverings for law enforcement specific specifically related to uh immigration enforcement as well as uh technology for elections. So uh continue to weigh in on a variety of topics that are important to the city and city residents.

Great. Well, thank you so much, Ann. Things are really, really busy in Annapolis. Um, and for my colleagues, the um the MML bill turned out a lot of mayors uh from uh across the state. So, um I'm hoping um the House will will will it'll get out of committee on the House side and um then the next the next battle will be in the Senate. But um I am I'm hopeful um that at least the task force will be um set up that will help us with coming up with some alternative approaches for municipal revenue streams. So um we're excited about that. Are there any questions for and council member Schlaggel?

Um thank you Miss Cott. Um could you just for the public's benefit could you briefly outline what what's engaged with that the bill about energy um aggregation I think you said um there's there right there's an existing community choice aggregation program pilot program that the city had been supportive of and I believe is that that is operational uh that the city takes advantage of

uh and the bill was simply to extend uh the existing ing program. Um, if you are looking for details on how the program works, I have a feeling one of your uh colleagues there uh in the council probably has a little more uh detail around uh exactly how the program works. Great. Thanks for the clarification. So, it's an extension. Thank you. Yes, that's all the bill does. May I go right ahead? And we did put in testimony to support the the extension as well as the creation two or three years ago. Yes. Yep. Mhm.

And um as always I I do Oh, I see council member Weslect. Thank you. Thank you. Uh and I just wanted to confirm we also did submit uh testimony written testimony in support of the birth certificate modernization act. So, I just wanted to let folks know about that one. And if you have questions or want to learn more, I'd be happy to talk with folks.

Great. So, I think that that was all of the bills this week. It was the birthright um the birth certificate um uh item and then it was also continuing to support um voting technologies that have the capability to deal with rank choice. immigration data rights data data privacy. I don't think that came through. Did that did it come through? We did submit testimony.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry everybody. There are a lot of bills and there is a lot of testimony that we're writing. So, so sometimes we try to make sure we get them all straight. Well, thank you so much, Ann, and I will see you tomorrow on Annapolis. Thank you all.

All right, have a good one. Okay, next up are public comments on voting items and uh this evening we have see voting items is the single reading ordinance authorizing expenditure of Maryland facade improvement grant funds for the Tacoma Park facade improvement program. Uh the second reading ordinance amending the Tacoma Park code chapter 14.12 noise and then the resolution um affirming support for employee access to stress management and peer support services. Um just as a reminder for everyone um when you come up if you live in the city or you represent an organization give your name and who you represent and you will have three minutes and the clock will show. Um and with that do we have any public comments on voting items? All right, silence. Do we have any virtual public comments on voting items? Yep. Okay. So, now we're going to move to general public comments. And this is when you have the opportunity to tell us what you feel. Um, I'm just going to ask for folks to to line up if you can, if you're physically able to. Let me get your let me get your mic. All right.

Hi everyone. Uh all right. Uh good evening, Mayor Cersi and city council members. My name is Omar Maro King and I'm the program manager for Crossroads Community Food Network. Um the the Tacoma Parkbased Food Justice nonprofit Crossroads Community Crossroads Community Food Network. I am the manager of Crossroads Farmers Market. Sorry if I stumbled my words there. Um, and I'm also a W five resident. So, shout out all my W five. Uh, I'm here to urge you to address the crisis of soaring food insecurity in Tacoma Park. We understand setting budget priorities is a difficult balancing act and we appreciate the work you are doing and you cons. As you consider the new community quality of life grant program structure, we ask you to please face the reality on the ground. According to the latest Capital Area Food Bank hunger report, 41% of to of Tacoma Park is food insecure. We see the faces behind these numbers every week at Crossroads Farmers Market. Reliable access to nutritious food is the foundation for everything else. You cannot build a life when you are consumed by the daily struggle of where your next meal will come from. This funding is about more than quality of life. For too many of us, this is about life itself. The city's commitment to increasing food security through the community quality of life grant program has been a gamecher. This funding has allowed Crossroads and our community partners to reach neighbors who fall through the cracks of the rapidly eroding traditional safety net. Together, we aren't just connecting people with food. We are building a local response that is fast, flexible, and deeply rooted in our community. For example, last November when federal SNAP benefits were disrupted during the shutdown, Crossroads was able to pivot immediately to ensure our most val our most vulnerable neighbors did not lose access to food by weaving together funding from the city through this grant program and as as well as the state, the

county, and our donors. We continue to provide fresh TX dollars to Tacoma Park residents with with low or zero SNAP balances so they can purchase their fresh local produce at Crossroads Farmers Market. Today, the grants review committee will lay out the vital work accomplished by Crossroads and other food insecurity reduction and community of quality and community quality of life grantees. The committee will request that food and security and immigrant services be formally established as FY27 priorities and that total funding be increased from 110 to 250,000. This increase is a crucial step to ensure our progress isn't lost to the wind to the windening f funding gap widening funding gap. We cannot let the safety net that we and other community-based nonprofits have built disappear while the crisis is still soaring. We urge you to support this request and fund it higher than 250,000 if possible so that we can work together to meet the scale of the need. Thank you for your commitment to a thriving Tacoma Park.

Thank you very much. Next comments are general public comments.

Good evening everyone. I'm Barbara Valentino. I'm CEO of Docs in Progress. We are in Silver Spring and first and foremost I thank all of you for funding us for many many years. We are an arts or organization and the program I'm speaking to you is called village reels. It is our intergenerational film making program. Arts, arts are for the soul and the soul is important and this is part of as an intergenerational film making program when I see the young people come to us um who have never picked up a camera who don't have the opportunities it's like an arrow has gone into their soul. it. The spark is incredible and we don't know in terms of impact who the next Stephen Spielberg, Spikeley, Ava Duivere will come from. We hope they'll come from Tacoma Park or Montgomery County. But the arts are important. They are who we are. They tell a story and the most important story that is unintended consequences. One of the profiles was from Helena Fabry. In June 30th, 2025, we did the premiere of her film. She's was a resident of Tacoma Park. Two weeks after that premiere, Helena unfortunately died at 98. She was an extraordinary woman who um was a journalist, fought the communists in Czechoslovakia, spent two years in a refugee camp before she came here. Why we do village reels is to find the stories that are hiding in plain sight and she is part of the

Tacoma Park community. I look at that and I think imagine if the students did not get her story. And so we are here to hope that you will fund us again, fund the arts again because the arts are important to all of us. So thank you and thank you again for your support. Thank you very much. Next commenter Arthur David Olsson, Ward 4, Herby Hancock Avenue. First, I appreciate that the city has adopted my candy of choice as its official candy. Some advice from Dwight Eisenhower. Whenever I encounter a problem I can't solve, I always make it bigger. I can never solve it by trying to make it smaller, but if I make it big enough, I can begin to see the outlines of a solution. I'm worried that in the matter of term lengths, the council has a problem that is too small. Back in 2017, the city had one time, three-year terms to synchronize city elections with those of the county. The hope was that folks could vote in the two elections on the same day in the same place at county precincts. When COVID hit in early 2020, that plan was dropped in favor of mail-in voting. Mail and voting has been used ever since. So the city never enjoyed the motivating benefit of synchronized elections, but it has continued to pay the cost. Synchronized elections mean that the city competes with the county for election workers. Thus, the small number of folks you see on videos doing ballot handling. My sense is that it's worthwhile to review synchronization. Meanwhile, council members have had a

lot to say about four new members in 2024 getting to deal with budget budget decisions almost immediately after being seated without adequate time to learn about budget matters. Avoiding that problem means either changing the budget year or changing election timing. From my personal experience with two groups, changing the budget year is very hard unless you have a windfall. With no windfall in sight, it would be hard for the city. So, a change in election season may be best. As an example, the nominating caucus could be held in May, late May after budget work is done with campaigning in the summer and an election in midepptember, providing an education window before budget season begins. I hope the council will make the election problem bigger. considering not only term lengths but also election years and the election season. Doing so allows a single set of notifications and hearings about charter changes rather than having multiple sets. I don't believe there's time to deal adequately with the bigger problem before candidates begin registering in July. So I hope the council will defer work on the big election problem until 2027. Thank you. Thank you very much. We have other commenters.

Good evening. Sue Miller, w three. The proposal to double council term lengths was introduced after midnight at a recent meeting. There was a presentation with the benefits slide, but curiously no drawbacks slide. The drawbacks of four-year terms are many, but after almost no discussion, council voted to trigger the process to allow changing our city charter. The most obvious drawback is one of candidate recruitment. Based on decades of working on city campaigns, I can attest that it is going to be far more difficult to convince people, especially a diversity of people, to run for four-year terms. Tenants in particular have been under reppresented on the council and with less housing security they are less likely to commit to four years. The proposed change gives the unfortunate appearance of benefiting incumbents by discouraging challengers. I urge you to instead create a task force on how to make running for office more accessible. It was stated that four-year terms would make council onboarding easier. I would suggest that instead a task force of former former council members create onboarding materials and mentor new members and that candidates be required to attend multiple council meetings in the year preceding the election. This would go a long way toward ensuring better understanding of what the job entails and better job readiness. Election volunteer burnout is real, but it could be addressed by moving elections back to the off year so that volunteers are not divided between city and state election work and voter confusion is minimized. Be assured that residents will get the required signatures for a referendum on this change and this could turn into a bitter citywide struggle. Many of us would rather be delivering food to our

neighbors, working on the midterms, and doing all we can to resist the takeover of our federal government. Statewide, two-year terms are common. They're used in Kensington, Green Belt, College Park, cities that share many attributes with Tacoma Park. So, we're not some straggler or outlier in this political tradition. In short, the presentation was not persuasive in proving that four-year terms would create a more effective and representative government. Two-year terms have served this city for almost 200 years with very rare exceptions. Finally, it would take time and a lot of hard work to publicize this momentous change in a landscape almost devoid of local press at a moment when residents are struggling with existential concerns. Trying to make this change now ahead of the summer registration for campaigns is frankly chaotic and will only serve as an extra barrier to anyone thinking of running. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Do you have any other general public comments?

Hi Lisa Bodet Ward three. Um, I want to second Sue's comments with regard to two-year term limits. That's what I'm in favor of. Um, but my comments concern um the recent tax sale and eviction of a 50-year-old neighbor of mine and her disabled daughter on Sycamore. Um, in an email in response to the outpouring of community support and concern, um, Roger uh, stated that the county becomes aware when taxes are unpaid, but according to our city manager, that individualized information is not shared with municipalities. If we could get that policy changed, then the notification to our municipal government could trigger outreach or assistance similar to what's in place for tenants imminently threatened with inviction with eviction. Um there were three related items in the recent ward 3 update, but I think that the main questions the main questions remain um and they did not you know it was um there was a flowchart of various social service assistants and how it's routed. a comment that uh once a person is referred to the county uh the city doesn't get info for privacy reasons and then um the of course the first reading of new legislation with regard to the homeowner tax credit policy um but I think the question or two questions remain is it possible for the city to be informed when homeowners who are at least eligible for or are receiving homeowner tax credit have not paid their taxes for long enough to put

them at imminent risk of tax sale and can the city do anything at all to help such individuals. Um I I would like to know whether in fact the city will indeed ask the county to provide such individualized information. Um I don't think that we're talking about a lot of homeowners. In order to be eligible for the homeowner tax credit, you have to be in in your home for at least 40 years. We're not talking about every homeowner who doesn't pay their taxes. Only those who actually have paid their taxes and for decades are aging and might require a bit more help. Um, you know, I think aging homeowners on imminent on limited incomes at some point will require help. Um, and we can help. We can help them if they need to move in a controlled rather than a precipitous manner. We can help contact far-flung family members to let them know that their loved ones are perhaps showing signs of dementia. We can let neighbors know that there are trustworthy neighbors and people around to help them regain a sense of order in life after they lose a spouse.

Your time is up. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Do you have any other public comments? Come on down. Come on down. Good evening. Um, my name is Councelor Tat and I live in Ward Five. Um, and I just um I don't get to come very often because I'm often taking care of kids and doing other things, but we do often watch online and I have been horrified by what's happened over the last couple of weeks here at the city council. um our mayor and our city council people are um elected officials who deserve our respect. You don't always agree with every policy that they make, but I do respect the person and I do respect the office and I think it's really important that as a community we adopt civility. There's so much that we've lost in our country in the last year um because of the national leadership. We should not emulate that in our civic leader in our town. Um, so I encourage people to um be civil and if withholding comments after people make comments, withholding clapping, withholding bullying comments after people make comments is what it takes to be civil, then I'm fully supportive of that. Um, the other thing is I think that being a city council person and a mayor is a truly thankless task in many ways and they are grossly undercompensated and so I'm all for um, compensating them more. I know this is tough budget times. Um, I have been a um, resident of Tacoma Park for 18 years. I have seen very little change in that 18 years on the city council. It

doesn't happen very quickly. people tend to be on the city council for years and so I'm all for increasing the term limits to decrease the number of elections if that saves money and allows the city council and the mayor to be properly compensated. Um and then finally I um the young person from Crossroads who said that 41% of Tacoma Park is food insecure. I found that percentage shocking though I shouldn't have. Um, and I'm all for increasing um, funding for food and security Tacoma Park. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Do you have any other public comments?

Good evening, Tom Gagliardo. I live in Ward One, but more importantly, I live in Tacoma Park and all of you represent all of us. I took your comments, Mayor Cersi, to heart and I did a little bit how to run an orderly meeting. So, I did a little bit of research and I found city council resolution 2022-2 which was adopted on January 19th, 2022. And I note that first of all, it lays out how meetings should be conducted. And I draw your attention particularly to section 2.16. And I sent you all an email earlier today uh with a copy of the resolution. Here's what 2.16 says. And I quote, "The public is invited to comment at each regular weekly meeting of the council." I'll skip the next sentence. It's not pertinent. 2.16.1 sub section Roman numeral five When a speaker asks questions or raises a topic during public comments to the extent possible. Acknowledgement or responses will be provided later in the meeting in writing after the meeting in writing or at a future meeting in city in uh city manager comments. So I have two real simple questions tonight. They're real simple. They're not controversial. They're things the public should know and they have to do with the audit of the Cooper case. So, here's question number one, which you can answer tonight or you can answer later as the rule

provides. When do you expect to have a final report of the audit? Date, an estimated date, a range of dates. It's a simple, non-controversial question and answer. Question number two, how much has been spent for the audit to date? Ballpark it. come up with an exact number, say something about what it's cost. Let me also note that section 7.1 of the same resolution provides unless otherwise set forth herein, all meetings of the council shall be conducted in accordance with the latest published edition of Robert's rules of order, newly revised, except where they are inconsistent or conflict with these procedures or the city charter or code. Now, Robert's Rules, I bought a copy. Robert's Rules, newly survi, uh, newly revised, is 715 pages long. So, what I attached to my email that I've sent to all of you is a two-page summary from Cornell University. Take a look. It'll make your life easier. It'll make us feel more uh, welcome here. Thank you.

Thank you. Do you have any other general public comments? Good evening all. David Reid, ward two. In light of what Mr. Gagliardo just said, I'd like to remind the council that four months ago, I posed a question. The question was how do we explain the fact that whereas population has increased by between eight and 10 people over a 15-year pe uh period the number of employees of this city government have increased by 14. Now, I did speak with my council representative and she did confirm that the question was heard. She confirmed that the staff was in fact working to answer that question. And yet, I have not received an answer. And I again put in the record I would request a clear explanation of this process why it has happened and if this really is in the best interests of our city. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Do you have any other general public comments? Any other general public comments? Okay. Do we have any virtual comments? We do not. Okay. All right. Great. Okay. So, with that, I'll turn things over to the council for council comments. Uh, Council Member Hanzac, you're going to kick us off.

Okay. Thank you. Thanks. It's really wonderful to see so many faces and uh, of course, it was really great to see so many young faces from um, the scout group. I I we got an hour to spend with them beforehand. If any of you got got a little sense of that, they got to sit up here on the dis. And uh so I want to say thank you to council member Dybala who um accompanied us through the whole thing. U manager Despidaro, thank you also director Jones from the library took them on a short tour and um and Mayor Cersi came in and made them feel super duper welcome. Um I wanted to share a few cool things about that pack. It's not very often that we get an entire uh youth group all at once coming in here. Often they come in twos and threes. Um and and uh this particular pack is from Rolling Terrace Elementary School. It's a co-ed group and they're bilingual in Spanish and English. And uh it's a really that part uh alone is a really neat thing for me to have had the chance to witness over in uh in my side of town. A lot of those folks are from W 5 and zoned to rolling Terrace. So uh hopefully we will see some of those folks back or voters in in the near future. And uh I enjoyed the police banquet today. I'm sure some of my colleagues will share. Uh this is an an annual event that is so special. Uh and I feel really honored to be able to attend uh on residents behalf. But I just want to tell everybody how incredibly amazed I am seeing each and every officer recognized for um tonight. Today they really explained some of the neat neat and extraordinary achievements that each of them had um contributed to our city over the last year. And uh I think it's fair to say that if anyone else had been in attendance, your mouth would have dropped just to hear the stories of what they've been doing, saving lives, literally saving lives, uh all across our community. Um and they have special awards just to do that. So,

uh I hope that that we can share some of those stories out and we can say thank you to our individual officers when we get the chance. Um, and uh, I know that probably some folks heard the state of the union and might be feeling a little unsettled uh, because I'm not sure that we feel that the state of the union is what we hear on television here in our local town. Um, but, uh, lastly, I want to say thank you to those who are speaking up as grantees. Um, in addition to the 41% food insecurity that we see in our community, um, that you cited that is so deeply troubling. Uh just last week I happened to go into Veronica's bakery which is just literally five steps from the outside of our town in uh Long Branch. And I asked the shopkeepers there who only spoke Spanish um what what they had seen in the last few months in terms of the change and how if they had to estimate what kind of change they've seen. They said they've seen a 50% drop 50% drop in business and they also said of their own free will. I'm not sure how the other businesses are surviving. So, I just want to share that with you. It's it's very humbling. Um and I know that we're doing all that we can do. Hope these facade grants will do something to help. Um but anyway, uh I think that's all I've got to say right now. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Hanzac. Uh, Council Member Schlaggel. Uh,

thank you. I'll mainly respond to um our commenters tonight. I haven't mentioned it for a while, though. I just wanted to mention um if you live in W 3. I I do email out an update um usually at least three times a month. And um I'm always happy to keep expanding the list to receive it. And I've asked our communications director, Ryan Kelly, to see if the link to the archive of those updates can be added to my council member profile page. Um, I um I wanted to thank Omar Makin um for that really important number of 41% um of Tacoma Park being food insecure. And um I'm sure that my colleagues join in that u sense of concern about that number and about thinking about what more we can do as a city when other sources of assistance are being cut. Um, thank you to Barbara Valentina for Village Real's comment and uh, as a teacher, I I always appreciate how how impactful it is when young people um, are called upon to interview and interact with much older people and to reach across generations. It's something we need more of in our community. Um, Arthur David Olsson, thank you for making our problem bigger. And I agree that it is it is best to bundle all of these um questions around how we um engage people in considering being seated on this and serving on this body. Um, Sue Miller, thank you also for um pointing out some potential drawbacks to four-year terms. And Lisa Boddet, I really appreciate that you came out um so quickly and responsively um to advocate on behalf of

other future residents, homeowners who could find themselves at a late stage of life um just suddenly surprised by a wall up to their whole existence and being thrust out of their home. So I do hope we can we can figure out how the city which does receive taxes can find out when people have fallen into a rears. Um Mr. Atala, if I have your name correctly, I I agree completely. Elected officials deserve our respect. Um in fact, everyone in this room deserves our respect. We're we're all in the meeting together. Um in terms of civility, that is a tricky term to define. And so I I always feel we should heir on the side of making sure our rules and procedures are clear um and and stick to that method of judgment. And to that end, thank you to Mr. Gagliard and Mr. Reid for um talking about our rules and procedures and particularly the the need to have questions answered and the right to have questions answered.

Thank you, Council Member Schlaggel. Council member Dbala.

Yes. Thank you. Um, all of you commented on all the different issues. Thanks for coming out. And, um, I agree with Council Member Hanzac. The police awards were eyeopening because it's not every day that we get to hear what they do every day. And and to me that was the the big takeaway was the stories about um what get what what what happens all the on on a beat and what what uh how crimes get solved, how people get arrested, how people get saved if they need to be. Uh there were several life- saving awards. Um it was very impressive. Uh if you're in part two, you know that I do respond um after the meeting whenever I can to hear people's comment to to people's comments. And to that end, I would like to follow up with the city manager about the conversation we had how to answer that question and get the information uh to residents. Thank you. Um and uh to the question of council terms, we we certainly will uh talk about it tonight. And um as council member Schlaggel said, thank you Arthur David for making the problem bigger. It is hard to pull one piece of the SCE for sure. Um and and I'm sure we'll be talking about that. I I think it's important to talk about I was not intend I was not attempting to try to prove anything the other night um but to lay out the issues as I saw them so that we could discuss it as a group. Um and that's it for me. Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Dala, Council Member Wesley.

Thank you. Um thanks all for being here tonight. Um, I'm I'm really excited to hear from the organizations we've been supporting. Uh, it's been one of the most interesting and rewarding things so far uh for Beyond Council to be able to support organizations on the ground doing amazing work. I'm also super duper excited um to see the presentation um from tool design uh with the traffic study results in New Hampshire gardens. Um, this is something folks there have have really wanted a much more in-depth look at how to make the streets in that neighborhood feel safer, be safer, and feel safer. Um, so I I've I've enjoyed the process. I know they've held several public meetings where a lot of residents have come out and talked with them. So I'm eager to look at the final recommendations in their report and hopefully we can support and make as many of them happen as possible. And excuse me. Uh, and lastly, I just um I'll follow up directly with Mr. Gagliardo. Uh, I I'll note that I did see your email about the Robert's rules and I did scan, but I just looked at the two-pager you shared from Cornell. I believe that only that referred specifically to the behavior of the folks here on the deis about how to have a motion, how to make a point of order, that sort of thing, which is very useful. So, thank you. But I'll tell you that I also have gotten books. Um, and I have not made my way through all of this yet, but I did want to read just one uh thing that I read. It's section 61 colon 8. All persons present at a meeting have an obligation to obey the legitimate orders of the presiding officer.

Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Wesleg. Uh I want to thank everybody for for coming out tonight. Uh there's there's a lot of stuff going on. Um, first I want to um recognize and appreciate those that are celebrating Ramadan. Um, so happy Ramadan. Um, also for those that are celebrating Lunar New Year. So, just want to make sure um that um everyone recognizes these important um holidays for members of our community. Uh last week on the 19th, we had a meeting with our county executive uh to discuss and this was a meeting with the um uh Montgomery County Municipal League and we met with our um county exec to talk about tax duplication and uh fortunately we are we are going in the direction everyone wants to go. So we are I am very excited. I appreciate um our management team um David Eubanks um city manager Despo um that have been working not just during the last few weeks in terms of um identifying um and correcting matters in terms of our tax duplication allocation um but also um building relationships within the county to make sure um that we're all on the same page. So when we have these conferences, they are they are positive and not everyone asking where is their money. Um also we had an opportunity to hear from um county staff that are leading immigration support efforts. Um and so they did provide a lot of information um to uh uh members in attendance in terms of different resources that are available within the county um for immigration support. Um, and so we in the city are taking all of

that information to make sure that we're able to figure out ways to disseminate it um, effectively to make sure that everyone is aware of where the different resources are in the event that you encounter someone um, that is um, undocumented or in need of support due to um, increased enforcement in ICE with ICE. Uh on um Saturday I had the pleasure of attending the third annual minority scholar program anti-racist film festival and it was great. One thing is that all of the students when they were interviewed all of the filmmakers when they were interviewed they asked how long did it take you to create this film and they all said one week. And I said I am old. There is no way I can learn a program and create a film in a week. Um, but I want to give a special shout out. There were filmmakers from Blair High School that were part of the finalist group. Um, also Piney Branch Elementary had a film and they were part of the finalists. So, um, I definitely want to thank um, the organizers. It was it was humbling. Um it was there were some aspects of it that were sad um because the children were clearly communicating um racial bias that they experience um and how that discrimination impacts them. Uh, and so it was a little sad, but it was also motivating because you could see such young children understanding what discrimination means and why it's important that we shouldn't um behave in ways that are that instill hate in people. Um, so I I I left feeling a little sad but also feeling like these kids got it. They got it. Um, so it was great. uh the police ceremony. Want to echo the

sentiments of um my colleagues that had the opportunity to attend the police ceremony. Um it was wonderful. I am so grateful um for our police department and their leadership. um the the number of officers where we heard that they actually they saved lives, the use of Narcan, um uh going to someone's house and finding out someone has had a stroke and being able to get them get them help. Um these are the things that our police officers do. Um and in spite of what we may see in terms of things that are happening at the federal level, um it is comforting to know um that we have officers here in the city that are doing good work. Uh additionally, I want to thank all of the residents, including um author David Olsen for forcing us to think big. I was I I knew we had to think big and I was trying to make sure that we wouldn't have to. But you you all have brought up all of the great things um that we will need to be talking about over the next month um as we are talking about voting. And I also want to thank all of the nonprofit organizations that have been serving our community and come out today. Um Docs in Progress, Crossroads. Um it is so important that we have the partnerships with your organizations um to serve our community. And then lastly, I know there's a lot of stuff to talk about, but I also got a lot of stuff to talk about. We are um there the the the city council is putting forward a letter um to the Montgomery County um committee on Montgomery County Council Committee on um education and culture. They're currently reviewing um the Montgomery C Montgomery County Public School MCPS um the capital improvement program that they have the budget basically it's the budget for schools and school construction um and so it is currently

with the Montgomery County um committee um on education and culture and one of the big things that's in that budget is Piney Branch Elementary School renovation. We're so close people. We are close. Um, so the, uh, Piney branch right now is a part of of the budget, but we want to make sure that we're able to keep it there and keep it being built on time. Um, so the council is sending a letter forward. I just want to remind folks that there's also um, events that are happening or did happen tonight, but there's some more that are happening. So the um superintendent um along with um the ENC chair Will Jando um they're hosting education forums. Uh so there was one tonight from 6:30 until 8 and that was virtual. Um on March the 4th there will be another budget um another um education forum that will be at Rockville High. And on March the 11th um there will be another forum and that will be at Einstein. So, if you have been following all of our schools, and we've been advocating for all of our schools, but um when it comes to the CIP, the budget is really, really, really, really tight. And Piney Branch, for those that don't know, is one of the lowest ranked um in terms of facility assessment quality of the schools in the county, particularly among elementary schools. I think it may be the lowest for elementary schools. Um, so we are really really encouraging members of the community um to to make sure that the education and culture committee knows about Piney Branch and really works to make sure that we're able to keep that elementary school replacement included in the CIP. And so with that, I'm sorry,

I just want to make sure I did not forget something. All right. Are are you okay? Uh, okay. Awesome. So, with that, I'm going to stop talking and I'll turn things over to city manager Desperto. Thank you. Thank you, Madame Mayor, Council, and uh to our residents and guests this evening. from the Housing and Community Development Department. The Village of Tacoma Park's small home repair program provides free repairs and accessibility modifications for village members wishing to age in place. Qualified volunteers provide their expertise and labor for free, and a partnership with the city underwrites the cost of materials in most cases. Please call the village at 301-6462109 to set up a home visit to see if your repair qualifies. Samples of work include installation of grab bars, interior and exterior handrails, and repairing or replacing dangerous steps. The FY27 fiscical year 27 community quality of life grant round opens on Wednesday, March 11th. Applications will be accepted through Wednesday, April 22nd. These grants are available to community organizations providing programs and projects benefiting Tacoma Park residents. Please visit tacoma parkmd.govgrants gov/grants for details on funding priorities and directions on how to apply. If you are a renter in Tacoma Park, we want to hear from you. The tenant survey is open online. It takes roughly 5 to 10 minutes to complete and is anonymous.

You can submit a survey using a variety of methods. One, you could follow the link on our website. Please search rent stabilization policy review. to by filling out a physical version that should be arriving at your address this week and dropping it off at the library, the housing and community development office, recreation center, or the test uh center and that's a Tacoma East Silver Spring Center. or three, by going in person to one of the dropoff locations and filling out a copy there. The survey closes on March 31st. from the police department. As alluded to earlier, uh I'd like to lend my voice also and uh appreciation for the luncheon organized by the and ceremony organized by the police department on behalf of recognizing its uh uh employees who deserve recognition. There was an awards lunchon today and the officer, civilian, and detective uh and supervisor of the year awards were dispensed. The awards were given to the officer of the year is Corporal Emanuel Ayala. The civilian employee of the year for the police department is Miss Demetus White. The detective of the year is Corporal Victor Arguita. And the supervisor of the year in the police department is Sergeant Henik Adakilt. There were also eight life-saving medals given out as well as other awards. So, congratulations to all who were

recognized for awards. And to all members, civilian and sworn in the police department, uh we're very, very proud of you. Finally, from the city manager's office, this week's staff shout out is from our housing and community development department. Jean Kerr, our senior housing specialist, has been with the city for over three decades, helping thousands of renters with their landlord tenant disputes and overseeing the city's rent stabilization program. Gan has always taken the time to work with residents and serve as a professional mediator, resolving many disputes before they reach our commission or landlord tenant affairs. We are deeply grateful for the work that Gan does day in and day out to help make Tacoma Park the city it is today. That concludes my report. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay, we're going to move to our first presentation this evening. Um it is the grants review committee report on food insecurity reduction grants and recommendations for the FY27 community quality of life funding priorities. Good evening, Mayor Council. My name is Ryan Lander, uh resident of Ward 3 and very fortunately a member of our grants uh review committee. And it's really on uh the grants review committee's behalf and the grantees that we've been supporting over the last year that I'm very honored to be here to share kind of a quick overview of some of the impacts that they've had over the last year. This presentation, the report is intended to really be a quick snapshot of this uh of the work of the progress of the impact that they've had. But their full breath of their activities, the full breath of their impact is contained in the report that I believe the committee and the city provided to you earlier. Uh and then secondly, we wanted to take the opportunity to also share our recommendations for the shape of the FY27 community quality of life grant program. In fiscal year 2025, uh the city provided nine community organizations with a total of $237,000 in grants to support food insecurity. Funding that came largely from ARPA or federal COVID relief funding. It supported activities through December of this past year.

The nine organizations represent a diverse network of partners. Those offering a broad range of critical community support to our community members, those operating food food pantries, urban agriculture, and those operating mobile uh delivery uh mobile meal delivery. Six of the nine grantees applied for and were further awarded with bridge grants through the FY26 community quality of life program essentially extending their program through June of this fiscal year. But for the purposes of this report uh this presentation is focused on the original grant period. A primary objective of the program was to directly address food insecurity within our community. Over 12 months across the city, grantees, community organizations conducted 115 food distribution events to multifamily buildings, churches, storefronts, schools serving an average of 60 to 200 of our families. To expand reach to reach those unable to attend in-person distributions, community organizations provided 15,000 fully prepared meals delivered to homebound individuals. They further organized direct deliveries of groceries to those particularly at risk to attending inerson or public distribution events. Beyond traditional uh food distributions, the community organizations demonstrated a a real capacity to implement a number of innovative support services for community members. Market vouchers provided to 200 community members and their families allowed families to shop at locally owned markets and purchase culturally appropriate foods. A food forest is site established within the community served as a hub for

volunteerism, education, and essentially for social cohesion or community connection. In addition, they were able to produce 225 pounds of food harvested by residents themselves, which I understand is a significant or a a significant yield for a uh food forest site in their first year. When federal funding uh when federal SNAP funding was uh disrupted, one organization pivoted to provide or subsidize fresh checks for families at risk to be able to purchase critical nutrition or food support at local farmers market able to make it through the disruption period. And organizations also supported 14 food entrepreneurs providing mentoring and support so that food-based businesses from within our community could get their start. and even beyond further the organizations really utilize the opportunity to strengthen ties within our community. They they train volunteers. Volunteers became critical members of their organization, building stronger ties, building uh community cohesion. The program connected to these individuals was able to facilitate access to other non-food needs, whether access to heaters during the winter or invitation and support to attend digital literacy classes. But these grantees also reported significant challenges. Federal actions, like you know very well, has had a tremendous impact on our community members, particularly the most vulnerable. Whether it's loss of funding or the fear and distrust that has been exacerbated by recent enforcement actions, community residents willingness to share public information and even seek help is really been stretched. Organizations of course continue to face logistical barriers whether access or

able to maintain a strong cold storage or or plant storage needs and supply chain issues as well. And most difficult to meet is there's an increasing need like Omar highlighted food insecurity has been exacerbated by rising costs and organization face difficulties with declining funding opportunities. So they faced a dual challenge have having an environment with declining funding with constituents that have rising needs. Kind of further reinforcing this point. This graph attempts to show the impact of the loss of the federal funding. The top bar shows the the uh funding available to grantees over the period from July to December of 2025, which included the ARPA federal funding. And then the bottom bar, the funding available through the community uh quality of life grants over the current six months. It represents a 40 a roughly $46,000 reduction in funding over a similar time period or 44% reduction. On a more positive note, we wanted to share uh three examples of some of the good work that's been done by the community under this grant program. They are but a sample and but they are intended to represent the value of the investment in a diverse range of grantees that use different or take different approaches to reach different populations through different ways. Advantist community services utilize resources to complement an existing maternal and child health program to offer nutritional support to mothers and families already receiving diapers and hygiene products. ACS distributed ve vegetable boxes, holiday meal boxes, and more than 13,000 pounds of food. They adapted to logistical challenges,

and they report that they were able to build trust with families navigating fear and uncertainty. Educare in the Tacoma Park Pantry expanded mobile and home deliveries, holding 15 mobile events and delivering more than 4,300 groceries direct to families in need, particularly targeting seniors, caregivers, and newly arrived families. recipients report food options provided both comfort and dignity. Something that uh those in public comment last week spoke very poignantly to the community food forest as I mentioned previously turned the food forest into a vibrant hub for education, volunteerism and social connection. They had more than 400 volunteers participating in activities and addressed community needs through mutual aid events, education on food sustainability, and free meals. The six other grantees tell very similar stories. They also provided very powerful feedback as you have also received. Residents described these programs as home or places where they felt safe, connected, and cared for. Volunteers expressed pride in the diversity of people working together and organizations noted how activities, no matter how small, contributed to building trust, even amongst residents who are scared to leave their apartments due to federal enforcement actions. So, so as we prepare for the next cycle, given the increased need and the clear impact of federal immigration enforcement on food insecurity in our community, the committee respectfully recommends incorporating immigrant support services as a funding priority for FY27. Funding under this priority area would

be expected to provide essential support to families directly affected by federal actions. Council has already allocated 15 thou $50,000 from reserves in November to address these needs. And adding this priority to the community quality of life uh program allows for the same competitive consideration given to these applications as we give to the others. The FY27 community quality of life grant round is proposed to begin in March 11th, allowing applicants six weeks to apply with applications due on the 22nd of April. The committee would go through its normal competitive review process and hope to make recommendations to you by early June for grants to begin, activities to begin by the 1st of July. In addition to the inclusion of immigrant support services, we continue to advocate for the inclusion of the same three priorities that were approved by the council last year, including food insecurity reduction, workforce development, and investing in our youth through enrichment in arts and sciences. And given all of the above, we humbly or respectfully recommend a funding level of 250,000 for the FY27 program. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your commitment to the city. I think uh Patty from the city will be happy to join me for any questions.

Well, thank you so much. I I am always in awe at the wonderful work that this committee does for our city because I would not want to be in your shoes having to pick between all of these fabulous proposals with the limited amount of resources that are available. I do have one question. Um, and I could be totally misremembering. Um there was some challenge in terms of the food um the food grants or the food options be being a part of some of the other stems like in the other components like basically the grant program includes so many different buckets

that food could sometimes always win out um because it is so important. Do do you all think that we would need to have some separation um for the immigrant services or is the thought that you would be able to if we were to add immigrant services to the community quality of life grant there would still be that ability to kind of decipher or if you see proposals that are kind of combining

those issues. Would that give you more flexibility? I'm just trying to see whether or not we're adding additional concepts for already a pretty small pot even if we were to add more money. Does it make it any easier or harder for you all to delineate around the proposals themselves? Right. At at the risk of speaking for the committee in its entirety, I think the inclusion really brings a lot of benefits. A lot of the needs that the immigrant support services require are those also that are served by the other funding priorities. And hopefully consideration of that priority, they will also consider opportunities to partner with or leverage the other opportunities as well.

Great. Thank you. I I I figured that would be the case and it might actually make things a little a little easier, but that's that's helpful to hear. Um just want to check to see if my colleagues had any other questions. Council member Schlaggel. Thank you, Mr. Lander. Um, and the so to be clear, thank you Mayor Cersei for asking that question. Just to be clear, um, when people apply for grants, can they characterize their their program, their proposed program as a hybrid of those priorities, or do they have to pick one? Yeah, in the past, they've been selecting one.

Okay. Thank you. Um, and you've alluded to how this program is about more than just materially what it's accomplishing, but that it's been transformative our community. And so I just wanted to invite you like if you have friends who who aren't involved in this kind of work that you're doing on the committee, what what do you say to them in terms of how you've seen these grants affecting Tacoma Park?

That's a big question. I mean I think I think civil society there's there has never been more evidence of the essential role that civil society plays in our community and I think these communicate these community organizations do an incredible amount with a very little amount of actual resources. I work for a very large international NGO and for us to even consider something like this would be very difficult and it is really humbling to see these people like Omar stand up to speak to the impact that they're having and to see the the beneficiaries or what we call program participants coming before you last week to share how it really changes their lives I think speaks to the essential nature of this not just for those individuals but for the vibrancy and the health of this community. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Council Member Wesley.

Thank you. Um, thank you so much for all of that. I don't even really have a question, but I just wanted to uh one, two, three, four, five, slide five. Uh, it says additional program activities. This is one that just really stood out to me about what is so fantastic about what we're trying to do here in Tacoma Park. just talking about the entrepreneurial mentorship and the culture culturally appropriate foods like these very specific um more unique type of programs that really speak to the to the values that we have here in the city. I'm just I'm just I'm just really excited about it. So, thank you.

Thank you. I share your excitement. Wonderful. Council member Dvala. Yeah, I I don't have a lot of questions. I just want to say thank you. This is awesome. And I I personally I support an expansion of the program. Thank you.

Thank you. And and and I do as well, but we got to look at this budget. But um I we will we will make it enough. We will figure out a way um to to make sure that we're able to continue to to support this program. So, thank you all so much um for coming out and um definitely look forward to seeing some additional and some more grantees in our in our city um as a result of of us um adding some additional resources to this important program. Wonderful. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, council.

Thank you very much. All right. So, the next item is the W six traffic study final report. Case Webbley, transit planner for the city. Tonight we will be talking to you about the results and recommendations coming out of the W six traffic study. We really um did a lot of good work here and engaged with the community to bring this um report about and just want to put this in context with the work that we're doing in the planning department. So this falls under our projects as well. You know we're having our ongoing work but this falls under one of our special projects. And tonight we have with us from tool design Odira Cole and Hector Chang who will be doing the bulk of the presentation. And so I invite Hector to come up and and join me. All right. Hello. Uh my name is Hector Chang. I am a project planner in a tool design group. We're a uh planning and AR uh planning and engineering firm based out of Silver Spring, Maryland. I also happen to be a Tacoma Park resident. I live in War 3. So uh that's why I'm the project manager for this project. Um with me here today, as we mentioned, Oda Cole is here. She was our traffic engineering lead for the study. And I just wanted to recognize all the other members of our team, particularly

William HS, who was our principal in charge making sure that all of our findings are sound. Um so as I've mentioned we did the Tokum uh New Hampshire Gardens traffic study and I just wanted to take you through our agenda today which basically will cover the uh the project from beginning to end um but in a very abridged version. You have the full report in your hands um but we're going to give you the highlights today um and you can read more about it um in the report. First, just a quick look about the project. Uh the timeline of the project we kicked off back in July. And what I want you to take away from this is that there were sort of two rounds of community engagement. One before we did a bulk of our data analysis to really understand what the community was trying to find um trying to solve for in this traffic study. Second, we came back to the community after the data analysis to sort of reveal our findings from um what we did from the data analysis portion and essentially show share with them possible recommendations that could be implemented to address the needs that were brought up at the first community meeting. Um so we will walk through that um in just a second. Um the first community meeting just a quick summary of the results. We did both an openhouse and a survey and what we took primarily from the survey is that the majority of the community threearters when asked what the priority concern was their uh their priority was reducing cut through traffic over just slowing down the traffic. So we wanted to take that into heart. Um and we also collected a lot of feedback from the openhouse and the sort of blank open in the portion of the survey where we got um feedback on uh sort of other issues that we didn't see

coming. So one so this is sort of the summary of all those issues um and we presented them to the community at the second um public meeting to see that um to see if it resonated with the community members and I believe it did. So the first thing that they wanted to see was to improve stop sign compliance. Uh community members were mentioning that there were a lot of cars essentially not stopping fully at the stop sign or just running them entirely. Second, community members wanted to see moderated speeds, vehicle speeds, and also moderated aggressive driving or reduced aggressive driving behaviors. There were a lot of complaints about sideswipe sideswiping of um parked vehicles and people just cutting people off uh drivers cutting people off while they were crossing the street. And the third one just reducing again the amount of cut through traffic through the neighborhood. This is where we brought the data in to see if that had any legs. Essentially, those are community desired goals, but we wanted to see what the data says. And for the most part, they confirm what the community is saying about the conditions on their streets with it regarding the issue of stop sign compliance. Thankfully, the city did a pilot of stop sign cameras. So, that was our data source for that. and the cameras that were placed during the pilot phase found non-compliance rates as high as 80 to 84% um of um at the monitored locations in the neighborhood. Next, on the issue regarding speeding and aggressive driving, this is one where we actually didn't see what the community is experiencing, but we understand maybe where why they're experiencing that. So, we actually found very low speeding rates. Only 5% of all the vehicles counted actually went above the speed limit of 25 miles per hour and less than 1% went above 30 miles per hour and you don't really get a ticket for going over five. You really get a ticket above 10

and beyond. So very few people would be ticketed at the current speed limit. Um that being said, we did see some differences in speed. So where there were sort of straightaways, people were going a little bit faster. And then there's also the issue of sideswiping. You don't have to go fast to aggre drive aggressively. You just have to drive aggressively. So that is sort of the aggressive driving. It's more the aggressive driving than the speeding issue we believe. Lastly, cut through traffic. We uh the counts that we did in the neighborhood um essentially confirmed an elevated number of vehicles in this neighborhood. Uh during the one day that we did count, we saw over 16,000 vehicles 1,600 vehicles per day uh on Glenside Drive alone and then over 2600 vehicles per day on Wildwood Drive alone. For a frame of reference, this neighborhood only has 1,600 residents total. So that would mean that every man, woman, or child drove their own car in and out of the neighborhood that day to get these numbers. or what really actually happen is that we see um cut through traffic. So the traffic flow patterns through the neighborhood are actually quite consistent with sort of DCbound community commuter traffic. People are generally going south during the morning and generally going north away from DC in the afternoon. On the right hand side you see a picture of the vehicles, the number of vehicles at each place that we counted in that afternoon period. And you can see that there's like over 200 cars during one hour um on Wadwood all kind of streaming from the south all the way to Carol Avenue in the north. We did one more thing uh during our data analysis piece and that really helped us determine essentially what traffic calming treatments would really actually have an effect. Um, we essentially had someone write a script. I had one of our

employees drive our uh write a script to query Google Maps and essentially see how long does it estimate um driving on the main road versus through Wildwood and through Glennside at every 15 minutes for 24/7 for a week in November, just a random week in November to see how that travel time changes as traffic grows primarily on the main road. And basically this helps us determine how effective traffic calming can be when we look at those options. Um basically to see less cut through traffic through this neighborhood, you would need traffic calming that slows cars down so much that it's actually faster to stay on the main road, the traffic heavy main road or to just not make it possible to cut through. So those are the things that we want to look at. And here's the chart from that finding. So let's focus on the top path first. This is southbound. So kind of kind of starting at Carol at University and going down to Glennside at New Hampshire Avenue. If you were to take the main road during daytime hours or you know main uh 7 to 8:00 p.m. it would take you around 5 and a half minutes with traffic. But if you took Wildwood to Glennside it would take four minutes. So that's why Google Apple would recommend you to take Wild to Glenside. You could possibly slow cars down by a minute by making them go slower through traffic calming means. However, on the northbound side, now on the lower half of this chart, um if you stuck to the main roads, going on Wildwood or Glennside takes around 5 minutes pretty much consistently throughout the day. However, if you took the main road, that becomes 6 and a half minutes during um sort of 7 to 8:00 p.m., but during the PM peak from 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m., the traffic gets so bad that it takes 8 and 1 half minutes to stay on the main road.

So, if you took Wild Glens, you'd say 3 minutes essentially. Um, and if at the peak of the peak, that can take up to 10 minutes. So you would save five minutes by going through uh while we're at Glenside. That's why we see most of the issues primarily in that afternoon period and primarily like 5:30 to 6. It's like the worst of the worst. So with those numbers, it's highly unlikely that there will be something that we can implement that will slow down cars enough just by slowing them enough to so that they don't choose to so um to deviate through the neighborhood. we will have to look at options that actually make it harder to cut through or just not possible legally possible to cut through. This is where we get to the recommendations phase. We shared this with the community and to sort of keep this presentation tight. We're only sharing the short-term recommendations that are going to be up for your consideration in the next couple weeks. Like I mentioned, we looked at a range of uh improvements that we could do to slow traffic down, but also to make it harder or not possible to cut through. We actually shopped all of these with the community in that second community meeting and essentially had them uh vote essentially. Um there was a survey that was out and open for over a week where people could just rank one out of five stars on each of these little boxes which are individual potential trafficcoming treatments. And the ones that are in check marked uh essentially met our uh sweet spot of both costs, effectiveness, and community approval. So those are the ones that we moved to recommendations um in the report for the city to consider. We're going to go through through them really quickly, one by one. So at intersections, we recommended enhancing the stop signs that are available already there at six

particular intersections all on Glenside and Wildwood, which are the main roads that cut through the neighborhood and where people have mainly seen the stop sign violations. So, um, posting sign, stop signs on both sides, literally writing out the word stop using paint and then putting high visibility crosswalks on these intersections will make them more visible. It'll be relatively inexpensive. The city can just go ahead and do it. As I mentioned, as it's written here, it's actually a traffic control project, not a traffic calming project. So, this is something that DPW would just implement um if they were to go ahead and do it. And this would be at these six locations. And you'll see a pattern. These six locations continue being thing the same intersections that we want to propose more treatments at. The next one is quick build curb extensions. So, this is using um paint, flexible posts, and maybe even curb stops to sort of narrow the um approach at the intersection so that cars instinctively slow down as they get towards that stop sign or as they get towards the intersection. Um this can be a short-term um thing because it's only paint and flex boats, uh relatively low cost. Um, and uh, it's something that would be a traffic calming project because it's not uh, you know, it's not a stop sign. It's something that would need to be installed through that process. At the same time, at some of these, you should also consider putting raised crossings. Uh, we have some of these in our city. These are essentially effectively speed humps at the intersections uh with crosswalk markings on them to make people more visible as they're crossing um and also forcing cars to slow down at the stop sign which imp which also improves stop sign compliance. Uh this is another potential traffic calming project that the city should consider.

Lastly, there were also some comments about people making erroneous left turns at these neighborhood traffic circles, which could be dangerous. Um, there's two ways to go about them. You could put better signage and really building a better sort of what we call channelization of these traffic circles. So, if you're in the in the neighborhood, um, a more a channelized uh, traffic circle would be the one at um, Kirkland and Jackson, I believe. um where there's sort of like curbs that sort of force the car to turn right and actually move counterclockwise instead of just kind of like making a left even though they're not supposed to. Um so that can be pretty expensive and hard to implement in a place with very limited rightway. So, in some places, you might actually consider converting them back to just stop controlled intersections with some of the other things that we just mentioned to make sure that they actually do stop at those stop signs. And lastly, stop sign cameras. This would be a um this is something that's already being piloted in the neighborhood and we just have a couple recommendations for future consideration if they were to be um sort of moved around or the city was considering adding more stops and cameras. Then we get to midlock improvements. So these are things that try to slow down vehicles in between intersections. And the first one, I'm sure a lot of people in the community will love this. Um, lowering speed limits is totally something that we recommend. Um, a posted speed limit of 20 mph is actually recommended for the whole neighborhood based on some analyses that we've done with the traffic data that we gathered for Glenside, Wildwood, and Canowick. So since those are the major corridors that cut through the neighborhood, we recommend just putting the speed limit for the whole neighborhood at the ent and you know just take it all do it all

in one shot and put those signs up at the entrances to the neighborhood instead of like quarter by quarter. Um, so this actually conforms with guidance from the Federal Highway Administration and it also conforms with the Montgomery County Complete Streets design guide for this particular street type in um, Tacoma Park. Next, um, we suggested to the city to consider building uh, quickbuilt chicanees. Chicanees are basically sort of curb extensions or bumpouts that um force cars to move side sway side to side. We have some of these in our city. Um we chose chices over speed humps which was the other option because um they were generally preferred by this community evenly. Basically they like speed humps, they like chicanees. But unfortunately in the New Hampshire Gardens neighborhood there's already 30 speed humps. There's very few places where you can put another speed hump. So, chicanees could possibly be something that could slow cars down that way. That being said, they can be they are harder to implement than speed humps. They have parking constraint. You know, they do remove some uh street uh curbside parking. There's some drainage things that you need to um consider. And then obviously maintenance, especially if you just do paints, uh paint and flex post, they need to be replaced. um on an annual semiannual basis or once in a while. Um so we would just con we would suggest considering this after the implementation of other measures that actually will probably have a stronger effect on reducing traffic through the neighborhood. Which gets us to sort of the harder to cut through and not possible to cut through treatments. And we're going to start with the one that actually makes it not possible to cut through which we think will have a

good effect in this neighborhood. Um the this is timelmited closures. Um we have these in our city. This is Hilltop Road um at Geneva. Um yes. Um basically these are temporary PR only do not enter signs at the neighborhood. And we're going to show you a map in a bit because there's uh we put them in unlike there were some concerns essentially that we heard from the community that they wouldn't be able to go home essentially by putting restrictions to turns or do not enter signs um in places. And because of the flow, the flows of traffic both going northbound and southbound, there isn't really one like there isn't really one big direction that you can restrict um without people just going to the next street essentially. So our basically our concept for um time limited closures is to essentially uh put them in the middle of the neighborhood. This would in essence cut the neighborhood in half with a north side and a south side at Jackson Avenue. So people can still get to their homes if they go, for example, if they live south of Jackson, they'll still be able to get to their homes through New Hampshire Avenue. If they live north of Jackson, they'll still get be able to get home from Carol and also from New Hampshire at Kirkland. But it doesn't it prevents cut through traffic which is really um people going from New Hampshire all the way to Carol and trying to avoid University Avenue essentially. Um so these time um these time limited closures would be effective Monday to Friday 4 to 7:00 p.m. which is that peak of the peak period that we saw in the um the time uh travel analysis and essentially would hopefully make it less uh make it actually very

nice to be there in the neighborhood at these times. Um, going back to that first slide, this does uh the the couple things that work well for this is that navigation apps like Google Maps, Ways, and Apple Maps will honor this kind of regulatory signage. They will not suggest uh trips through the neighborhood at this time at these times with the do not enter sign. So people who just purely use their navigation apps like Uber drivers um will just not see an option to cut through the neighborhood uh when they um are navigating. Um, that being said, people who have made this sort of their commute route will probably need some enforcement in the initial weeks to make sure that they understand the signage and that they know how to get out um of the neighborhood if they, for example, he did not heed the new advanced warning signs that we also recommend implementing in this neighborhood um when this goes in. So this would be paired with enforcement initial weeks in the initial weeks and then also advanced warning signs would help reduce sort of confusion before people get to this uh closure in the middle of the neighborhood. And lastly, an alternative to that would be quick build diverters. These essentially restrict traffic movements through the neighborhood in a very similar way, but these would be at all times of the day. And that is something that we um understand might be something that um community members are hesitant about. So this is an option if let's say in the future if there was a um a demand to the consu if they really liked it at 4 if 4 to 6 p.m. becomes like the new oh I love the neighborhood which currently is not. this might be something that they might uh that you might want to consider at that time to make that closure a little bit more permanent and all day.

If you want to revisit the recommendations, we do have this table within the report that essentially compares every single option with the cost estimate that we would re uh we would uh you'd expect for to implement this and how effective it will be in the criteria that the community that was developed essentially based on community out input. Switching gears a little bit, as part of our project, we also had a scope to look at a potential one-way conversion of Hammond Avenue from Kenn Lochney to Anne Street. This is on the upper part above the Mega Mart, north of the Mega Mart. Um, and what we our recommendation is that it is not recommended uh to have a one-way closure, a one-way conversion at that uh on that street for two points. one, there's relatively low traffic volumes on Hammond Avenue. There's only 29 cars at the peak hour, like 5 or 6 p.m. So, that's not too many cars, frankly, and there's other streets in the in the neighborhood that have that see way more. And second, what that would just do is just push traffic onto Canowick. Um because um it would be the next best thing, and it's right there. One of the issues with having one-way conversions in a place with a grid is that people can just go to the street next and um Kenowick already sees more than double the traffic that Hammond currently has. So you're just kind of pushing the problem down to the other street and maybe you'll hear from that those neighbors. Now, um, an alternative to sort of, um, trafficcom this part of the neighborhood more globally would possibly be a closure of an street at University Boulevard, which was something that was recommended in the New Avenue um, bikeway study for

the Purple Line Connection study. Um that is also the community preferred option in the survey that we did of the people that answered that they had an opinion about the one-way conversion or the ant street closure. They preferred the closure instead of the oneway conversion. And lastly, we did also provide some additional recommendations to enhance the bicycle and pedestrian experience in the neighborhood. Uh we suggest consistently marking crosswalks particularly on six higher traffic corridors. Uh these are Glenside, Wallwood, Kenowick, and Murwood and the Service Road on New Hampshire Avenue. Um right now, very few crosswalks are marked, so we recommend that you consistently mark at least on those streets since they have high volumes of vehicles as well as people on bikes and walking. Next would be installing stop signs, particularly on minor roads, uh that currently do not have them. There are like six intersections where there are no stop signs at all. And with the new um federal MUTCD, which is like the rule guide book bible for traffic engineers who like to nerd out on stop signs and other sort of traffic uh signs. Um you probably want to consider installing them on at least five of the six intersections that currently do not have them. And this would be on the minor road. This wouldn't be new stop signs on Wildwood or Glennside, just for clarity. And lastly, the city should continue the buildout of missing sidewalks in a neighborhood. And we do actually suggest a prioritization of certain streets over others. Jackson, Kirkland, Hammond, and Holton will probably see a few more vehicles, particularly if you put in time limited closures or the diverters that we recommend, just a few more. Um, so we recommend putting sidewalks on those streets. Um, there's also they're also sort of longer streets that people might use to actually get in and out of the

neighborhood as opposed to these other more local streets that really only people who live there would be using those streets like Cole Avenue or Kingwood Drive. So, we provided all of these recommendations to the city and I'm going to pass it back to Casey who will tell us what actually made it.

Thanks, Hector. So we will be presenting to you a list of recommendations coming out of this traffic study and we'll be bringing forward in two ways. One will be the upcoming traffic coming and sidewalk process which will be with you in a couple of weeks. Um and we're pretty much taking on board a lot of what tool has recommended. You'll see a list here on the screen. Um, one of the things I'll mention is the traffic diversion time limited closure and the lowering of the speed limits. And in the next trunch will be through traffic control and maintenance with the public works queue. So these will just slot into their queue and they'll be um managing these as time and resources allow. And with that, I would just like to extend a thanks to T tool design for the work that they've put in on this traffic study as well as the New Hampshire Gardens Community Association. They have been very helpful in engaging the residents with this process, getting the word out to them and we really appreciate the the um the work they've done and also the police department and public works team as well for their input. And we'll take any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. Um I when this agenda item came up, I said I'm not going to read the report because I don't want to bias myself because I have a tendency to look for my house and and with the closures I said, how am I going to get home? But I am I am willing to alter my my patterns in order for the greater good. Um, one thing that I did just want to make sure that I was clear about um is is are the traffic circles, right? Um, and I saw that um converting some of them to um enhance kind of crosswalk um four-way may be a a suggestion. I I love that. Um as a um a pedestrian, not only is it people are confused about which direction to go in the circles, you you have to have your head on a swivel when you are walking through that intersection. So the the sidewalk breaks, you need to cross the street, there's a car coming around, they're going to get very very close to you, and it just it it creates a recipe for disaster. Um, so I do really like the idea of um converting those and um uh my niece always reminded me of she still does of the fact that those circles only are just there as speed humps for children that have to get on the bus because the buses just drive over them because they can't clear them. Uh so uh that is um I so I do support um thinking through ways to tee off some of those intersections to

make it a little easier for pedestrians to navigate. Um can we go back to the closure map? Okay. So I just want to make sure I understand. Right. So, a person like me, no offense, I'm going to make this about me for a minute. I live at Wildwood near Carol. So, often I am going down to hit New Hampshire Avenue or coming up or going out through Carol. So in this kind of scenario um during the rush hour or during the restricted times you would not be able to take Wildwood from New Hampshire all the way up to Carol. Are there like other it seems as if there I'm trying to see like

it seems like there wouldn't be any diversions at all from cutting through. Is that right? Right. So this is just signage. Um, so you technically wouldn't be able to drive on Wildwood um to get to your house um through from New Hampshire Avenue. However, for people who live north of Jackson, you can actually um it's kind of cut off a little bit in the map, but you could go onto Kirkland. Okay, that's I'm at this point I'm like I don't see an option other than hidden going up to Right. So, it this is one this is one where there's a little bit of taking one for the team. Uh especially if you are coming. Um

that's why I didn't read the report ahead of time cuz I I know that I'm going to have to I'm going to have to eat it. So,

uh you would essentially we by having this as a consistent closure every weekday from 4:00 to 7:00. The hope is that people who live in the neighborhood experience the benefits and then also adjust um their commutes a little bit if um in a more predictable manner. So if you are someone that currently actually cuts through most of the neighborhood to get to your house, you would now try to enter through Carol at when you you would remember that that's closed and then you would actually optimize your trip by taking Siggo or some other road before you get there

um to get into your house at Carroll Avenue. Okay. And um one last question about an street closure and um Casey I I don't recall seeing that as one of the staff items. Yeah, that's correct. So we are about to engage in the Purple Line connector project. We're waiting on that um contract to come through and be executed and the closure of Ant Street forms a part of that grant project and so that will be further in the future. Okay. Yeah. Great.

Thank you. All right. With that, I will turn things over to Council Member Wesle. Thank you. Um this was so fantastic. Um I I have three questions. Uh um one is about this this uh the staff recommendations and next steps. I want to make sure I I understand that. So the the first slide the tra FY27 traffic calming and sidewalk process. Are you saying that these items will be on the list alongside the other ones that residents have been working through this for this for this time period?

That's correct. So there are some staff recommendations. In addition to these from this traffic study, there are a few other traffic um staff recommendations. Okay, great. So then they'll be in the list with it and then they're weighed against each other for all the things across the city. That's correct. Okay. All right. That that's really great. And then the second one is, if I understand, that's more of it goes into the public works queue for Yes. if when you can do it. Yes. because some of it is painting on on the streets and so they'll they'll slot that in when they're already um mobilized for that.

Okay. Um great. Um second question um about reducing the speed limit because not just residents I have been very confused about how that process could or could not happen. Um, so we got this recommendation, we all stay, everyone says yes, we want it to be 20 miles per hour. How would that actually happen?

So, thanks to the work that tool has done, they've done a traffic study, we've done the work to recommend the lowering of the speed limit within the neighborhood. So, this is just going to apply to the New Hampshire Gardens community. um if we want to do it elsewhere, we'll need to do another study to see if that will be applicable. Okay. So, so the hurdle of a big expensive study, this covers it, which was that was the issue in the past, right? Yes. Okay.

Fantastic. And council member Weslake, just really quickly, um so the city has been submitting testimony regularly whenever the bill comes up um at the state level requesting the elimination of that requirement in order to lower the speed limit. I believe David Moon might have put something forward a couple times um but but it it hasn't um passed. So hence we have to do the traffic study in order to lower the speed limit. Um, and my last question, um, is I'm I'm thinking of the, uh, bus stop intersections that were noted, um, like when you kind of show the kind of six major ones and three are marked as bus stop locations. Uh, great. Great. what um what given it for the bus stop for kids, what kind of combination of the things you think would be best at those because there's kind of you know we talked about several different kinds of options and I know those intersections are priorities. Um but I want to make sure it makes sense in the most for that for that purpose.

Right. So we have decided to do enhanced stop marking. So, we'll be doing um posting off double-sided stop signs, marking the pavement with the stops. There are some that have been earmarked for painted curb extensions as well. And so, that will help to fulfill this criteria. We have two stops um two curb extensions that we are planning to apply for a grant for to pilot it to see how well these curb extensions perform. And then we'll at the end of that review and see do we implement it throughout the rest of the intersections and do we do it as a permanent curb extension as well.

Okay, great. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Great. Uh Council Member Hanzac, thank you. Uh this is really great to hear how this works and see what kinds of recommendations can come out. Um I have I have a handful of questions. Um, so one is, um, I'm curious about the raised crosswalks versus the stop sign cameras. It sounded like, did I understand correctly? You're saying those would be at the same locations that are where stop signs where stop signs are is where you would have a raised crosswalk as well. Yes. So, at those intersections, that being said, the raised crossings would probably be only on the major like where most pedestrians walk,

right? Right. Uh, so it wouldn't be necessarily on all the legs of the intersection, only on the ones, but that that's where there's already a stop sign and a crosswalk, right? Yes. Okay. I mean, would do you have a thought on whether if you had a stop sign camera there that that would be equally valuable or the raised crosswalk is more valuable because that's a traffic calming measure whereas the other is a traffic control. I'm I guess I'm just kind of curious because we actually have that technology now. Um but I'm just kind of curious why you chose the one over maybe the other. Am I is my question making sense? Okay. No, no, no, no.

Yeah. Yeah. So, uh right now the police, they started with their pilot and so they've identified a number of stop sign cameras that they installed in this neighborhood. Um, and so at the moment they want to keep those cameras in place over the next year and see kind of how that works. And then they might revisit it, come back and say, "Okay, do we move them around? Do we, you know, keep them in place?" Um, so some of these are, you know, yes, they would work great together and some of them are we know that the cameras are where they are at the moment and will be and so here's a way that we can address this issue in the uh current time frame.

I got you. Okay. So the assumption being at the moment we're not moving them. Okay. Or adding. Okay. Thank you. That that's helpful. And then um I wanted to share with you that it has been my experience over on KBEC uh Avenue which I don't know if you know it's not Kenowick it's K KBEC uh it's not very far from this neighborhood it's in Ward 5 but we have uh about 10 years ago maybe there was actually a traffic diversion measure put in place uh 4 to 7 rush hour from Siggo Creek Parkway up to Piney Branch and from Piney Branch down to Sigel Creek Parkway. And then another one was then added on Richie Avenue. Excuse me. Uh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Not it's uh, someone help me. What's

No, no, no. I'm not talking about Domer. Actually, actually, yes, there's also one on Domer. But, um, to be really I I want to share this my colleagues too and and mayor since you live in the neighborhood. I find it to be an absolute nightmare. And almost everybody who doesn't live on that itty bitty street um that is covered primarily and that was the impetus for this hates it. Um and we wish it were gone and it's very difficult to get rid of. It's complicated. Uh it it adds about 20 minutes of driving from my side of the neighborhood when I bought the house to everywhere I want to go in downtown Silver Spring and back again. It's a um I I wondered back then and I wonder now whether um having a sticker of some sort that's very prominent so you could see it from a distance on a on a vehicle would that said local traffic only is ever something that communities do because at the end of the day that has a lot to do with what the with the phenomenon. Um, I just I I I am bulking at the complexity of this uh neighborhood, not living in that piece of neighborhood, but just, you know, people will find themselves in there. I'm not really convinced that the vast majority of people will actually follow those. Then it requires enforcement from the police, etc., etc., and folks who live in the neighborhood are actually going to have to divert themselves quite substantially as well, which may or may not be at the end of the day something that they enjoy doing. But the enforcement piece seems like a pretty big one. And I'm thinking if we're going to go to the trouble to enforce all those funny little turns and whatever um that says don't go this way, don't go that way, don't go this way, then um I wonder if it's equally viable to have a local traffic only with some kind of identifying sticker. I wonder whether that's been discussed with our police. I do distinctly remember that um I think I

don't want to misquote our chief but back in the day when I suggested this he said that is not reasonable to enforce. Um so any thoughts from anybody about that? Yeah. So so our understanding is that's not enforceable. Um that the police would not be able to issue tickets off of that. So if we stick up a local traffic only sign it won't do anything. it'll just sit there um and we won't be able to enforce and the rout navigation applications will not navigate it. Um and I will say um this neighborhood already has the Purple Line has already put very large local traffic only signs and people just drive by them.

Well, it would require some sort of identification, but it sounds like it's not enforceable even then, I guess. Huh. Is that right? Even if you had a sticker. Yeah. No, I don't.

I see. Yep. Okay. Well, I I yeah, so then I guess it's really just serves as a warning that the complexity of of these this I I invite folks to come over and check it out. I mean, it's uh it's worth trying out and and we've had it now in place for a number of years. Um and like I said, it's it it really should be considered carefully because uh I I would I I am super supportive of uh like 99% of all the other ones. I think they all look really clear. This one I I'd say we should take pause about um based on our lived experience over where we are. Thank you, Council Member Hanzac. Council member Schlaggel.

Um one thing I just wanted to respond to that that if we do implement it these time limited closures, we would be reviewing it to see its effectiveness. Thank you, Council Member Schelgo. Yeah, thank you. Um, was it Park View you were thinking of the the road that Park Valley that goes up and connects with Swag? This is Park Park Valley Road and then I'm just I'll look at my map right now while you're talking.

Okay. Thank you. Um, one thing that I I see is potentially distinctive is that in the Canbec um, situation or the other streets coming downhill off Flower towards Sliggo Creek, uh, there's the the the driver who goes down there and then discovers they can't go farther ends up doing some complicated maneuvers to turn around. and and the plan you have here basically forces a right turn whether you're coming south or north and then you're like oh I'll get through somewhere no I can't I turn right again and I wanted to share how um I my eyes were open to the effectiveness of that when I was in Vancouver a few years ago in a neighborhood called Kitalano and there's a major road fourth avenue and a major road 8th Avenue and so it occurs to you ah it's backed up on those I'm gonna take fifth sixth or seventh And as you go through, you're nodding your head as though you might have been there. Suddenly

my

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Suddenly you realize, oh, well, right here I can't go straight. I got to turn. And then you realize, no, they forced me right back out onto the street. I left. So, I think people learn pretty quickly. I wanted to point out that this turns Jackson potentially into a place that's very attractive for pedestrians. Um, and so your your call for a sidewalk on Jackson kind of I just wanted to amplify that. And I also wanted to ask whether we could look into the status of the foot bridge then that at the bottom of Jackson goes across into Ward 2 um at Garland because right now it's a foot bridge that requires you to go up and down steps and it would be nice to see if we could work with MNCPPC to

get that up updated to something that would be ADA accessible. Um, another thing I just wanted to say was that um, I'm think I I love the methodology about seeing what would be enough to render the navigation apps, you know, frustrated. And I'm thinking like the next thing the nav apps might do is for for outbound commuters on New Hampshire to say turn on flower, you know, turn on flower, turn on sliggo, and then go up flower. So, in conjunction with implementing what we might call the Jackson wall, um I would suggest that at the same time if if that next stud is in progress in W 2 that you see what the before and afters are for cars diverting on to flower to get to Carol.

Thank you, Council Member Schlaggel. Um, Council Member DBala, speaking of W two, one of my questions is, uh, can can you confirm what now that we're just about done with this, what the next study up is and what the time frame might be. So, we have Flor Avenue lined up next. We are in the process of applying for a grant to fund it as well. Um, so we'll see how that goes. But if not, we'll release an RFP. Okay. I wasn't aware that we needed grant money. I thought we had budgeted for it.

Yeah. So, um, uh, the COG release releases, uh, transit. Oh, shoot. TLC and I can't remember the acronym. There we go. Um, so in the interest of, uh, you know, seeing if we can use other people's money, we we'd like to see if we can get that grant. Oh, sure. Um but if not we are fully prepared to release an RFP and and go it alone time frame the grant application the grant application will be submitted this week. Okay that's that's soon enough for me. Thank you.

Um the other two question comment on the study. I I loved the methodology also and I I was really interested in the community outreach and thinking about how it will work in other neighborhoods. So I I just thought that was that was very interesting. Um, my other two questions had to do uh with the 20 miles an hour versus 15 because I thought I heard you say the the slower you go, the more likely people will go the go will not try to cut through and couple of people had asked me why 20 not 15.

No, that's fair. Um so 20 miles per hour is the lowest that our the US limits tool from Federal Highway Administration will allow without a more essentially a specific traffic stud uh speed study on it. Uh the accuracy of the data that we received from the speed counters that we put out there will only let us essentially recommend 20 miles hour.

Bottom number. Okay, that's a good answer. Great. And then on the costs associated with the last two tables that um council member Wes Wesleck asked about. Um when might we be seeing how much these would we would need to s set aside for these? Um would that be in the process of looking at the at the the full list of That's correct. So March 11th, I believe, is the date that we have that work in session. Um, and so those costs will be included then. Okay, great. Thank you.

Okay. Uh, Council Member Schgo, is that a light?

Oh, I just I just wanted to say that your north end of the neighborhood is now going to be the forgotten part of the forgotten ward for some people, which I will never call it that, but I feel bad for you. you know, you know, it's all right if if you uh this neighborhood needs a lot of support to address some of the pedestrian safety issues. I mean, we've we've seen children be hit by cars. Um it is a nightmare um when you have all of this traffic backed up. And I will just say there there's often where I have like a line of six, seven cars blocking my driveway where I can't get out because they're all queued up trying to That happens regularly. It's not a one-off kind of thing. It happens all the time. So, the way I see it, I could either spend my time waiting in waiting in my driveway, waiting for a way out, or I can take the scenic route and and ultimately not have to deal with as many cars queued up. Uh, and I also, uh, many years ago had a car in my front yard. Um, so yeah, they tried to make the turn on Carol. They swung a little too wide and they ended up in my front yard. So it's just, you know, it's par for the course. So I think the the big thing for all of us is, you know, what can we do um to to work with in the constraints that we have to try to make some adjustments that'll make it safer for everybody. and I really really really appreciate all of the work that you all have been doing um and how you've been engaging with the residents to build consensus. Um it it is it is really important and I really appreciate all the hard work that everyone has put in.

Thank you so much. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we are moving to the voting session. Okay. Um, so the first item is a single reading ordinance authorizing expenditure of the Maryland facade improvement grant funds for the Tacoma Park facade improvement program. Uh, any points of discussion on this? All right. Seeing none, uh, would someone like to move it? So moved.

Thank you, Council Member Hanzac, for moving. Thank you, Council Member Dybala, for seconding. Any points of discussion? All right. Um, given that this is an ordinance, would the clerk please call a role? Council member Landman. Council member Dybala. Yes. Council member Schlaggel. Yes. Council member Gilbert. Council member Hanzac. Yes. Council member Weslec. I. Mayor Cersei.

I. Next item is the second reading ordinance amending Tacoma Park Code Chapter 14.12 noise. And we are joined this evening by our city attorney, Mr. Cornbrooks. Um and so I know that there's been a couple of adjustments that were made to um to this ordinance and um Skip, I I would appreciate if you could just kind of give folks a quick run through of the adjustments that were made.

Sure. Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, council. Um, subsequent to your last meeting, um, there have been two groups of adjustments um, primarily for clarification purposes. Um, the first proposed uh, amendment would be on uh, page five of the uh, ordinance that was in the agenda packet, lines 1 through six. And that would be to section 1412 050. Um and basically the purpose of this language is to make it clear that um a noise disturbance uh may occur anywhere in the city including by way of example multif family dwellings, single family dwellings, dwellings of any kind, etc. Um and and the second paragraph is to clarify for interpretation purposes um that a noise disturbance can occur anywhere in the city uh so as to avoid a construction that by identifying certain locations we are limiting um the application of the ordinance to those locations. So that's that's the first uh change. Are there any questions with respect to that? Okay, moving on. Uh, hearing none, mayor. Moving on to the next group of changes. Um, fast forward to page 10 of the ordinance in the agenda packet. Um, lines 22 through 29. And what you will see here is a clarification. Um there was

considerable confusion I think about um what we were trying to do uh with some of the language that related to two-party noise disturbance complaints. as we adjusted from the noise control board concept to not having a noise control board but still preserving uh the two-party um process. And one of the issues was uh allowing the complaint process to proceed with the submission to code enforcement um but not requiring both complainants to appear in court to prove um the case. So that's one issue. Um and the other issue uh was to make sure that um bear with me for a second. Okay. And the other issue was just to clarify uh exactly how the process went from submission of the two-party complaint to code and that there was no requirement for code to take action um upon receipt. So, so that was essential. Those are the essential changes um substantively. And what we did I I shouldn't say substantive. What we did was we moved them moved that language and parsed it out more clearly. I hope um from a previous subsection and placed it all under the two-party noise disturbance complaint. So, those were the two changes uh groups of changes that were made.

And um Miss Mr. Cornbrooks, I just want to confirm that I know council member Schlaggel had added um had requested some additional just clarification friendly amendments and I just want to make sure that um that has been provided to council as well. I believe council member Schlaggel shared that earlier today. I'll defer to the council member, but um I'm happy to talk about them um if if you would like me to do so at this time. that might be helpful for um um for the other members of the council just so that they can understand that they're friendly.

Okay. So, with respect to um the adjustments on um in the noise disturbance complaint section, um we're on page again page 10. Um, Council Member Schlaggel, I believe, um, correctly suggested the language could be more clear to avoid confusion for folks who are not necess ne necessarily familiar with the ordinance structure, um, but want to know how to handle a situation, um, if they have to deal with a noise issue. Um, and he, my understanding, I'm sure the council member will correct me if I'm wrong, of of his concern was that if um, someone just looked at subsection E, which is again on page 10, uh, they might believe that the only methodology for them to obtain relief would be through this complaint process. So what we did was um and I I prepared language um for the council member um add the words two-party um to um subsection E. So it would read two-party noise disturbance complaints to clarify that that applies to the two-party complaint process or hopefully to clarify to signal to the reader. And then we added uh another paragraph five um which addressed another concern that the council member raised. Um I say we added we're proposing to add um paragraph five uh to make it clear that a resident can still proceed under another methodology of calling an enforcement officer or communicating with an enforcement officer to the effect, hey, we're having this problem. Can you help us out? And that way the resident would not

necessarily be confused that they would be limited to the two-party process. So they could always communicate with the enforcement officer and the enforcement officer uh could always take action um and would not also would not be limited by the two-party process. Thank you very much. And um thank you council member Schlaggel for adding that clarification. And I think it does add um add some clarity for for residents that are reading when we when we go. Has this been moved yet? It has been moved. Yeah. So if it's helpful, I can read out the friendly amendment language officially.

The the um second um reading ordinance has been moved by the council the entire thing because we considered them friendly amendments. So usually for friendly amendments, you don't have to read them. However, if council member Schel if you just want to read your amendment to share with the group, you can.

Sure. Just because it's it's not in the handout. So on page 10, as attorney Brook said, the at line 11 E would read two party noise disturbance complaints. So that people would realize, oh, there's another method back on the previous page. And then past line 29 at the bottom of page 10, item five would be added and it would read, "This subsection E shall not be construed as limiting a resident's right to communicate with an enforcement officer in an attempt to obtain relief under this chapter or as limiting an enforcement officer's authority set forth elsewhere in section 14.12.130." And thank you to attorney Cornbrooks for drafting that language after our conversation.

Great. Thank you so much. And so it has been uh I'm sorry. I missed the um for some reason I didn't hear the motion to for second reading to Oh, did I did I do did I not do the motion? Probably not. I feel like that that was for the last one. I didn't do it. I probably did not do it. So, because I wanted us to walk through the changes and then we will move it. Thank you all. It's late. Would someone like to move the second reading ordinance amending uh Tacoma Park Code Chapter 14.12? Thank you, Council Member Dybala. Do I have a second? Second.

Thank you, Council Memberel. Schlaggel, are there any additional questions or thoughts? Um, Council Member Hanzac. Um, yes. Given that council member Gilbert is not with us tonight and I uh distinctively distinctively noted that council member Gilbert had a number of concerns, has anyone spoken with him about all of these? And are we pretty comfortable that he's feeling comfortable now with this language? because he was, if I remember, one of the things he was very concerned about was multif family buildings and the and it sounds like Cornbrook's language that was proposed there is going to resolve a lot of those.

The the city attorney spoke with him and that's partially where those amendments came from. Um is that conversation and then I spoke with him earlier today and confirmed with him that he is happy with this language that it adequately applies to multif family buildings. Okay. Then if I may, I also reached out to him via text immediately before this meeting um and asked about um the language and he confirmed again that he was okay

for that assurance. I know he was on our subcommittee so we heard we had pretty in-depth conversations about it and so that um makes me feel more peaceful about this. But then that brings another question. So then um have we circled back to our police chief um regarding anything any concern or or our code enforcement which is in your shop? I can look at you um regarding whether their comfort level with the revised language and whether it there's any sense that it will somehow add any different or distinct uh operational um needs to their shops that are not already there and in terms of like are they is this going to make them feel like they're going to need to respond in ways as different than what current practice? I think we are going to continue our operational status of how we address them with police responding in multif family cases and uh code enforcement addressing issues um going across property lines.

Okay. So, so is that to say that we have spoken with the chief and he does not sense or you you're confident that it doesn't add burden. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that reassurance. I just wanted to make sure because I know that was another hesitation. Thank you. That's good. Okay. All right. Um, and so with that, uh, just want to check to see if there are no additional lights, questions. I'll just acknowledge that I previously had mentioned this friendly amendment and so I don't need to read it in again or anything, do I? Okay. Thank you. All right. So, with that, um, would the clerk call the role? Council member Landman. Council member Dvala. Uh, yes.

Council member Schel. Council member Gilbert, I'm sorry, I'm just rushing through here. Council member Hanzac, yes. Council member Weslec, I. Mayor Cersei, I. Okay. Uh, now we're going to move to our last work session for the evening. Council, City Council term limit discussions. Thank you.

Oh gosh, my brain. I am sorry. The uh we have one more resolution. Okay. The resolution affirming support for employee access to stress management and peer support services. Um just want to confirm uh whether or not there are any additional edits uh to this particular item. Um there were, but I I sent an email out to everybody and they're highlighted in the staff memo. Um, so unless you guys want me to go over those, uh, no additional comments. Okay. Except there was one article that we're adding, which I believe is the the A. Yes.

Okay. Um, so I just want to confirm with uh, council whether or not there are any questions or points of discussion regarding the edits that were made. No, I'd like to move the Okay. vote. All right. Okay. Seeing no lights. Uh, Council Member Hanzac wants to move. Do we have a second? Thank you, Council Member Dybala. And given that this is a resolution, just want to make sure there are no additional points of discussion. Okay. Great. All those in favor of the resolution affirming support for employee access to stress management and peer support services, please say I. I.

I. Do we have any opposed? And we have any abstain? Okay. So, it passes. Okay. So, with that, we have uh the city council term limit discussion. And with that, I'll turn things over to council member Dybala.

Thank you, Mayor. Um I pulling up pulling up the rear again here. I um I I thought that uh it would be uh good to um just briefly review what we were looking at last week given uh the hour um and to focus on three questions um focus on a couple of questions in particular uh for moving forward here. Um so the the um next slide please. Who's doing the slides? Um, and so I I would I would like to say at the at the outset that um that that I that that this is um trying to say here this is uh a put out for the purpose of discussion, put out for the purpose of consideration. Um and and it's a response as I will say in a minute to the situation that that I I have heard the board of elections, the council compensation committee and other city and city council members describe. there are other ways to there may be other ways to to resolve these the issues uh the the the problems that are in front of us but uh this is the one I focused in on um to Arthur David Olsen's uh point about making the issue bigger um maybe it should be so let's let's back up um we we talked about this January um 14th And we uh talked about this two two weeks

ago. Uh and we the question in front of us would adopting four-year terms assist us in having more effective and representative local government. Um and subsets of that uh based on the election board report that was uh memo that was sent to us recently um and is in the packet for those of you who are listening at home. um the online agenda packet. Uh they also raised the question of staggered council terms. If there were to be four-year terms, would they be staggered or would they be all changed at once? And whether starting in 2026, which is the original proposal, or starting at some other time. Um next slide, please. So, uh, as we said two weeks ago, uh, as I said two weeks ago, why is this an issue now? Um, the board of elections report for the 2024 election talked about the cost of elections, the dollars, and also the true cost of the elections. um they talked about the sustainability of the of the current system and their their view that it's really not sustainable as a largely volunteer um effort. Um so that that got our attention. Um, we also heard from the council compensation committee that in their view it uh it was not just how much council members are paid but it is the the need for the job to be manageable. And they made a number of suggestions in particular the need for additional council education onboarding and support for new council members. um because if if you if you don't know the job then you can't be representing your your um your ward very well. So uh

then we also have the recent experience of two councils with majority new council members which just in my mind highlighted some of these issues. Um next slide please. And so um we we also went over the process for making a charter change which is what this would be. Um and uh we talked about the seven boxes and in particular again calling your attention to the third one. So two weeks ago uh we talked about whether to consider this and whether to formally consider this and if we were to do formally consider this we need the public hearing. So we we agreed to go ahead with this with the with scheduling the public hearing. Uh the city clerk can tell us details, but it is scheduled now for and the notices have been are have been posted and and um for Monday, March 16. At any point after that, the council can adopt or not a resolution with the exact wording that was presented at that hearing. Um, so no switching um to uh to to ch to make a charter change. So, so that's the city council's authorization in the city chart charter for how you would make a charter change. Um there's another path which is which is through citiz uh res citizen resident okay voter petition. That's that's not the case here. We don't have a voter petition saying would you put this on the ballot? Would you make this would you consider making this change? This is a a council initiated con process. Um so

next slide please. So that's where we are now. Um I had also uh put forward um my views on who might benefit from such a change. Uh and um it turns out hearing comments from residents and from other council members that you know maybe that was my view and not as as complete perhaps. So rather than talk about the benefits that I see um I would like next slide please to talk about what's in the um memo that the election board put forth for us because they did look at both possible benefits and possible drawbacks from their point of view which is running elections. Next slide please. Um, so they framed it as the benefit, the possible benefits, policy continuity, which to me sounds a lot like um, more time to apply your learning after getting up to speed. Um, and more experience with once a year decisions such as budget, which is how I had framed it. Um, reduce election costs and burden. Um, and I'd like to come back to that in a minute with some more detail. voter fatigue. Um the flip of that is turnout. uh and um more substantive legislation which they presented as more uh more time to delve into an issue, to complete an issue, to to to produce a policy and and I I would add more uh man staff management time to support that process because management is not spending time uh doing doing all all the orientation

and support for new members quite as often. Um so I'd like uh to um to go to the next slide and then um we can come back to the details uh on um yeah let's stay here. I'm sorry. Oh, we've already moved ahead. Never mind. So, the drawbacks that they laid that they laid out um reduced elect electoral accountability. Uh one of the things that I've been thinking about is given the other types of accountability that we already have in the city for council members. What more might we need if we were to change the terms? Would there be other types of things we would want to do to increase accountability in other ways? Um they noted increased barriers for challengers and I would add new candidates in general to that as a possible drawback that we should discuss. Um and the perception of self-interest which I think assumes that this is um that that this that this is a a job that everybody will really want. Um, and I that might not be the case these days. Um, one thing that was not on anybody's I I'm not sure how else to say it, but I note that all the council members seem to understand me. Um, so quite seriously, one thing that is not on this either anybody's list so far is the and a resident pointed out to me is the impact potential impact on the

youth vote. And so, uh, I talked to the, uh, staff liaison to the youth council and agreed, um, that I would write something up for them to, it happens, they meet next week, uh, for them to consider and because they should be given, I think, an opportunity, uh, to weigh in casually and also if they wish to to to comment at the public hearing, then they should be able to do that. So, um I um want to back up. Can we back up one please before we go to the discussion? Uh can we back up one slide if that's possible? Yes. So, on on the reduced election costs and on the uh burden there, I just want to um there were some questions last week. I want to fill in what we've got so far. Um, and also I would like to turn to this to the city clerk and the city manager for their perspectives on this. Um, so what the last city election for 2024, the city budgeted 100,000, actually spent 70,000 and that's just on the equipment and the paid election workers during the crunch, the couple of weeks where there's so much going on. Um, the election board has already warned us that this will go up because they feel the need for more paid election workers. Um the city clerk's time to my astonishment um was huge. So So I did I I I I looked at the numbers. I did the math and I just want to say if in the course of two years um

what would you do with eight or nine weeks of the city clerk's time if they if that if they weren't doing an election? So it's not a small amount of time that's that we would be freeing up by doing this. Um, so not to dwell on that, but uh, but I thought that was more significant than I had anticipated. Um, I also wanted to touch on this question. I have a question related to that. Yes. Did that 70,000 include the the mailing costs for the and public publishing costs for the ballots? Thank you.

Yeah, because mailin is a more expensive way to run an election for sure. um in that that's a yeah okay so never mind that for a minute um I would also like to point to the substantive legislation and the management time uh for getting council members up to speed on boarding orientation all of that um I I attempted to get numbers from the city manager there was no easy way to get estimates from on these numbers. Um, but uh I believe he's prepared to speak to and and remember this is senior management time. This is this is people who really can weigh in and help with policy support. Um, so I would like to give the city clerk and the city manager an opportunity to weigh in on these on these points right now. Thank you. Uh yes, and I appreciated the conversation and uh the with the new new members of council, there's always whether it's few or a lot uh there's always a orientation period uh that's necessary. staff feels u it's it's helpful and we hope the newly electeds do as well that we can provide briefings uh orientations tours uh spend we spend time answering questions and it's uh whenever there's a change in uh in terms of new new members coming on to the body it certainly is a um is a devotion of a certain amount amount of staff time.

Again, you're you're correct. I don't think that has been explicitly documented into how many hours and it's across probably every department, you know, city manager's office, certainly the clerk's office as well and uh perhaps even the city attorney to some extent. Uh so hard to quantify that but it can especially when there are multiple uh changes it it can get into a lot of time and it's our responsibility as well as our privilege to provide those orientations but it is nevertheless a fact that when we need to do them more frequently versus less frequently that does create a lot of um uh time that staff needs to spend doing that versus other things. I know that when Rockville switched in 2014, I I wasn't there at the time, but what I'm told is that that was one of the reasons that they had considered was every other year staff was having to spend a considerable amount of time necessarily and happily, but nevertheless had to spend time on a fairly regular basis uh trying to do orientations and and and help folks along the learning curve, particularly on things like the budget and other um issues that may be uh before the council at the time. So, I hope that's helpful. Uh I I'm sorry I can't really hang out uh uh quant, you know, quantifiable numbers and and dollar dollar signs on that,

but it it is a big time commitment. Um, city clerk, do you have any did I cover what you were thinking or what you were um what was on your mind on this? Right. So, I would I would um add to u your comments that um the assistant city clerk also uh puts a substantial amount of time into this and um we had u our our record specialist was a temp for the last election and a lot of her time was also spent on election related and by a lot of time you mean a third. Yeah, something like that. Over several months.

Yes. just, you know, more during the election, less at the tail end um of but but what you said to me was more than a third of the time of these people over a period of six months. Yes. That's how you get that big number of eight and a half, nine weeks of time that is freed up. So again, this is not about making the staff life easier, although of course that's a nice benefit. It's about, in my mind, it's about being more effective as a council and being able to do the things that we told our residents that we want to do. Um, may I add one thing quickly? Yes, please. I thought you were done.

Notwithstanding, elections are really exciting and fun to do, you know. So, let me say that. I don't mean to sound like it was just this burden that we have. They're uh important and uh we always feel good about accomplishing an election. Yes. I just wanted to add I remember the one in the park that was really fun.

Uh um so a couple more things on this page on this slide if you'll just bear with me. Uh so um voter fatigue was pointed out by the by the um board of elections based on some research they had done at the national level. Um I I also had some email questions about turnout and whether turnout was related to how to the frequency of an election or some other factors. Um, I have not done a comparative I have not finished a comparative with other communities. I'm working on it. But what I will point out is that the turnout increase which was more than double more than double from 22 to 46 49 and 53% when we switched from off years to on years. when we switched from because we did this all at the S. Well, maybe the clerk can just say what the three changes were, but we we made three changes. So, within our city, there were three changes that resulted in double turnout. And I will go through the analysis, but I'm going to have a hard time believing that other factors are going to result in a doubling or a having of voter turnout. Well, so in terms of turnout, the the vote by mail and the changing to even your elections because they happened at the same time, it's difficult to know

which which made the difference. Um u and I can't think of a third was the same day registration. Oh, same day registration. True. Yes. I only know because I just read all this today, but I Yeah. Did we I I I don't know for sure that we started that in 2020. Maybe it was before then, but maybe not. Yeah. Well, I can't recall right now.

But but those two big ones, even your voting as opposed to every three years on the off year um and vote by mail um resulted in a huge increase in turnout. Um and I am working on a comparative analysis uh for those who are interested in that. Um and and one thing that I just want to mention is that um this doesn't in my view voter fatigue, but there's also building the if council members have a have more time to build the relationships with the voters that may um that may be a a benefit that hasn't been noted by the election board. Um, can we have the next slide, please? I'm almost done. I promise. And then everybody can talk. So, I wanted to again going to uh comments that people made and information that some of you wanted um reduced electoral accountability. the questions came up about council term and and thanks to uh Arthur David Olsen, we have uh some information on that. Um he went back to 1964. I went back to not that far 2000. Um so the average council term depending on whether you count consecutive in one job or for for those who went on to be mayor or took a break in the middle um whether it's full full service is either five or five and a half years. Um, so many council members do hang

around for more than one term, a one more than one two-year term. Uh, there have been five seats that needed to be filled uh since Heather Mazzour, which was I think 20 anyway, five five in the last bunch of in relatively recently. three of them, two of them were special elections and three of them were by appointment. Um so we have some but not a lot of experience with special elections. Um the when I talked to the city clerk and again she can speak for herself if she if I'm remembering incorrectly that the cost of a special election is much much less but the cost of a general city election that is three council members as opposed to three council members and the mayor as opposed to se six council members and the mayor. They're they're all in the same neighborhood because you have to do the nominee committee and the financial forms and the and the all of the stuff you have to do to run a regular election, rent the equipment, get the voting judges, uh vote the election workers, so on and so forth. A one time special election done by paper and involving not a lot of voters, that's the one that doesn't cost much. So if I got that basically right.

Yes. Unless it was a mayoral election then then it was unless it was a mayoral special election is much less one. Thank you. Much less than a a full city election. We've had three special elections during my tenure. All right. I got it backwards. And three appointments.

I apologize for that. Three appointments. Um, and um, because council member Lambman is not here, uh, maybe we'll skip the part about uh, and given the hour, we'll skip the part about charter changes since 2006. I can put in an email for everybody. There there have been one, two, three, four, five. Uh, and they've been done in different ways and they're listed all on the city website, but I can write everybody a note on that. Um so if we can go to the next slide. Uh two more slides. So uh I I tried to this this also is just a refresher. I tried to um respond to some people who had asked what about other communities? And the bottom line is in Maryland and in the country more common than not, but not it's not saying that everybody has to be a in a four-year term. It's just saying it's not being having a four-year term is not an outlier. Having a two-year two-year term is not an outlier. Um, some of our neighbors have four-year terms. Some of our neighbors have two-year terms. um in an effort to identify smaller communities in Maryland that have um that have four-year terms because there are some uh they they're not in Montgomery County. Um have to grace and uh Aberdine if people want to look to spec specific examples of smaller communities that have four-year terms. And um in Montgomery County, the smaller communities, the smaller villages, municipalities that are v villages,

towns, and cities and one special district. So there's a bunch of them and they're small and many of them have two-year terms. Tacoma Park is one of the three biggest. So in so you can look at it any way you want. Um but I tried to this was here simply for the purpose of saying for your terms are not so unusual um so different

and council member Dybala I I do just want to say because I know that um some of the speakers this evening were talking about oh you know some of our Prince George's colleagues um I do believe that College Park believe it was College Park did try to move to a four fouryear term. So it's it's not it was Yeah. No, go ahead go right ahead.

No, don't go. So, so it's not that that it's I think they did it they tried via a referendum um that did not pass, but it um it it just goes to show that even though there are communities that have two-year terms, it they have pursued or would would have mentioned the the desire to move or attempted to move to a four-year term. Um and for some of the reasons um that council member Dybala has already um noted that making that adjustment in terms of the cost of their elections, you know, trying to keep a cohesive council together for long enough to where it actually you could actually get work done. All of those things were some of the the rationale behind um those elected officials attempting to move to a 4-year.

So, uh last slide please. The next slide, please. Um, so back to where we started, would would adopting four-year terms in Tacoma Park help us assist us in in having more effective and representative local government? Um and the subsets of that staggered council terms starting when. Um and just refreshing that the that some of the ben possible benefits identified by the election board policy continuity more substantive legislation and and programming allowed uh because of more time reduce election costs and and burden on everyone. voter fatigue um and some of the drawbacks that have been mentioned um that we should be considering reduced electoral accountability increased barriers uh for new candidates and challenggers and the perception of self-interest. So um I think I should stop talking and and let everybody else talk. What I would like to get out mayor of this evening is to just remind people we have talked the council has discussed this twice. This is a work session, another work session. We have another one coming up at which point we if it's appropriate we can look at a draft resolution. Um, that was all before the public hearing and we have the public hearing where and that's important to hear what people have to say and then we have a another work session after that on March 18th. Um, so there are some more times here for for discussing and thinking. So, what I'd like to get out of this is um a sense of where people are at, but also uh what other information might be needed that we need to track down that

to help with this decision. Thank you for your indulgence um at this late hour, letting me go on for a bit because I I I thought it was important to refresh a little from last time. Thank you, Council Member Dybala. And I see a couple of lights. Council member was elect.

Thank you. Um uh I definitely look forward to seeing what the youth council says. I think that the idea of two to four year terms could have a how how that could impact uh voting for 16, 17, 18 year olds. I'd be really curious. I think um one of my like top lenses I'm looking at all of this is voter turnout. Um so like moving it to the even years and I guess I'm I'm so I'm looking at the start when 2026 or other and I know um some some folks have felt like we're doing this very quickly. Um, but I do think what's good I I think the ideal sweet spot for the most turnout would be midterms that the if if we went to four years 2026 I think would be the best because the presidential is such a big strain otherwise on everyone. Um, midterms is some is a thing. People are thinking about it, thinking about voting. Um, but it's not as big because I I um I really think that if we moved it to outside of, for example, November, it would voter turnout would just completely drop. Um, and especially in W six and some of the other WS where the voter turnout might be less. I I don't want to do anything that might make it even more less. Um, so that's definitely something I'm thinking a lot about about um I that I like that we might be making this decision before 2026 because that

might be the good pattern then to be in going forward. Um, but all that to say that I'm I'm I'm still weighing um and trying to think through and kind of uh gather all the information um because I'm I'm I'm not really sure yet which one I I think would be better, two or four your terms. Um but well, yeah, that's just my thought process right now. Thank you, Council Member Wesle. Council member Hanzac.

Yeah, thank you. That's interesting to hear you say that. Um because I have a number of thoughts and I I also first I just want to say thank you so much to Council Member Dybala for um walking us through all of this and taking us through this process. I frankly I think this is incredibly important and I also want to say thank you um to Arthur Arthur David Olsen for the challenge that you've issued to us. think it's exactly the right question that you should be asking us and I it's got me thinking tonight as I'm walking through these slides again and um I guess this is a question for council member Dybala um did your initial set of slides that you gave us last week which I'm sorry I should have gone back to look at did it start with um any slide that said the problem that we are trying to solve is X Y and Z I'm not saying they're altogether different than that but is there such a slide council member or Dala

there is not such a slide what there is is the slide that says what's the issue yeah the issues right which is another way of saying it's sort of yeah sort of sort of similar um

I think it's slightly different um because um yeah I I need to sit on this again and think about how to chew on it but um I look at this very much so from the lens of I guess the problem I'm I would seek to solve um would be saving money for the city because it sounds like we we are currently experiencing a strain that is significant. It's not just saving money, saving resources that we don't have enough of at the moment. And I don't just mean money, I mean um people the people capacity was definitely a challenge. So that I I you know um thinking bigger that's more complex. It was brought forward because of the board of elections partially. Um so um and then another problem I see that we would be trying to to impact on would be you know maybe the continuity of policy and perhaps a recognition that um maybe that's been one of the struggles that councils or the staff has faced in not having more council continuity and and policies and whatnot. But but setting that aside for a moment because to me those things are are pretty obvious. We would save money, we would save resources, we would gain back clerk time and other time of our staff in a pretty substantial way. Um we would we would be more we would very likely be more effective because of the continuity. But I am very concerned about whether we're um whether we're moving the needle or making significant um forward strides, backward strides, or no strides on making our council more demographically representative and making um and and making sure that we are not doing anything whatsoever to damage the voter turnout, the

fantastic voter turnout that we have now achieved. I um I I think it's fair to say that like so I represent W five and I I assume most folks know, but if you don't, you know, W five has historically had the lowest voter to turn turnout in the entire city and so you've really hit an issue that's important to me. Um Council Member Wes, I I assume W 6 might be somewhat similar, but I know that we are the lowest and very low. I think the highest we'd ever hit was 17% in our ward up until um just a few years back. And we almost doubled I think our voter turnout just in my ward. And you ask me what happened. Well, I mean I have a theory. I think the board of elections report is very um helpful too. Very helpful. But I mean looking around and having talked to residents and seeing how what they're asking me during the election, seeing what people are thinking. you know, we're not talking. We went from 17% to like, you know, gaining 10 or 15%. So, I think I talked to a lot of the voters. Um, was there was a lot of confusion. What's the thing coming in the mail? Uh, oh. Oh, you're running for that thing that I got in the mail. Oh, I think I think I know where it is. Um, and and were they would on a on an off year, would anybody have really paid attention when we're talking about that additional 20% that we got? not the people who voted all the time in the past. Um, these are the people for whom the ballot gets lost. The mail out ballot was huge. And the fact that it was at a time when there was a lot of hype about voting happening, that was huge, huge, huge, huge. I mean, that is my theory. I know that it's not. This is this is anecdotal, but it's really important because I think that we should therefore kind of ask ourselves, okay, if we were to do

this, what would it do to accessibility uh for those who right now are not feeling like they can run? Does it make it better, worse, or the same? And what does it do possibly to voter turnout? And and if we focus in on those questions, to me, those those I love our youth and I love voter excitement, but I at the end of the day, we want as many people to vote in this city as possible. Um especially demographic representation broadly speaking, not restricted just to our youth. As exciting as that is, it's really important that our city government represent all of us. So, um, those are the questions that are on my mind. I'm not sure where that sets me right now. I mean, a few things that haven't come up that that I want to share are, uh, I I think of how expensive it is to run a campaign

um, in time costs. And so for awards such as mine where and for my this goal that I'm setting that I'd like to see a more demographically representative um set of council members that I do see a a benefit I think uh primarily more of a benefit than a drawback in a 4-year term. However, the problem remains that the compensation itself is absolutely not high enough to allow someone to serve for one, two, three or four years unless we were to significantly reduce the burden placed on council members once they get into that position. So, all in all, maybe we aren't gaining much. And and I'm just talking you through when I'm thinking about these things. So, um, I think I've covered all my points. Just give me one second. Oh, one other concern I have that I want to share with colleagues that again is sort of alluded to, but not as directly as I'm going to say it. Um, if we have a council member who we might think needs to be censured, it might be something we'd have to consider in some of our work on civility, etc. if we decided to go from a four-year term to a two-year term because one of the things that we talked about is, you know, when you have a two-year term, then, you know, there's that turnover and then you can have the the electorate can decide if if someone has done something that is worthy of getting them out of office, but without that, it could be trickier. And thanks thanks for letting me chat through that.

Thank you, Council Member Hanzac. Council member Schlaggel.

Thank you. Um, Council Member Dybala, thank you so much for all of the work you've done to pull together this presentation and and the ideas. Um, there's has so many facets. I don't think I'm going to be very organized, but I'm just going to just going to talk on some things I've jotted down here. Um I guess one question I have for management would be um if we had staggered terms, would the would that would the burden be reduced for onboarding significantly still simply because there would be ostensibly fewer or no people coming on board in a in uh every two years.

Uh potentially, yes. I um when I managed to need in Florida, we had staggered we had five council members, but we did have um staggered terms. They also had numbered seats, which was a different thing. Uh people could it was a just a different thing, but the there wouldn't be potential for as much change with any given election. So conceivably, you know, if it was only some years one or two, you know, one or two or three, you know, the the mayor's election would tend to be isolated and then you'd have two and three with the staggered terms. And so you were talking about fewer persons that would need new new members to the body that would need to be uh that there would need to be orientation for versus uh I can remember one year in Oberlin when I managed there and there were seven council members with elections every other year. They still have it. I once had six brand new ones out of seven. And so it and and it can be a lot. But again, as as uh Jesse said, uh that that is our that is our responsibility and our our uh our pleasure to do orientations when they're necessary, but it is a fact that some years it can be uh quite a number of folks with staggered terms to your question that could be less.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Uh I um some of these are comments, some are questions. So um it's an interesting statistic and thank you to you council member and Arthur David Olsen out there for the calculations of the average council term being five or five point year 5.5 years. So I do get how that might argue for just switching to four-ear terms. But then really, if people burn out after 5.5 years, are then where are you at? Are we going to have a lot of people doing one four-year term being like, you know, I'm out. Or are they going to be ready to re try re-upping for another full four years? It's something worth asking. Um I'm not asking for an answer. Um yeah. Um, and while I'm on that, it's not necessarily burnout. I think it's a calculus. Um, I've I've run uh I've actually run four times, you know, for council seats. And so I've had a lot of campaigning experience. I was in one of those special elections. And um each time I I started by asking a lot of other people if they would run, but then I was stuck with doing it. Um but uh the um the calculus is so hard with two years even when you have a family um and you're looking at what particular things might be going on with children or with aging parents and it's so much harder to look uh four years out and have confidence that you could commit. Um, jobs can change, moves can happen, you know, all kinds of things. And especially if you have a spouse, like you don't want to be saying, "Hey, no way can you choose a job in another city

unless you want to be separated over the next four years, you know." Um um as far as the It was interesting what you said, Council Member Hanzac, about talking to people and them saying, "Yeah, I um saying um I I noticed that this ballot came in the mail because there's because we're in an election year and I was looking for this stuff. We're in a big election year. I was looking for this stuff." When when I was canvasing, I had a lot of experiences that were counter to that where people said, "Oh, hey, yeah, I already voted." And then I'd say, "You voted for what?" Well, the ballot came and I sent it in. For what? And they'd be like, "Uh, I don't know. Let me look around." Oh, there is one from Tacoma Park here. I didn't notice that. I thought it was all the same thing, you know. So, um, yeah. So, it's funny what happens. Um, I did want to ask, so now I'm on a question. Um, Council Member Dybala, did the Board of Elections ask for this to be brought forward? I couldn't remember what they said in their report.

Did not understand. Did they ask for us to consider four-year terms? No, I I don't recall them requesting it, but um in the 2024 election report. No, no, but but they brought up a number of challenges with staffing, cost, like all of those things which although they're not saying you need to switch to a fourear, but that could be a predicate to their subject.

Yeah. It's like you have to figure out either pump more money into your elections where you can get more people or figure out a way to lessen the workload. And so the only way you can lessen the workload is to figure out some way to mitigate your election schedule to kind of make it less.

Okay, got it. Thank you. Um, Council Member Hanzac mentioned um concerns about how expensive it is to run a campaign in both money and time, and I I I didn't see that in either of your presentations, Council Member Dybala. Was that something that you ruled out as an issue? like the time it takes an incumbent to run for reelection every you know 20 months get started again on that

I well that I I didn't list it but that's certainly true that I if if I'm in a two-year term then starting about now I'm starting to think about November and And depending on who it is, I'm either full tilt boogie running from June, maybe sooner or or worried that for sure August or September,

but no, I I hadn't listed it. It's a it's it's true though. I thought you were going to say something about um both of you were going to say something about campaign finance, which again, what's the bigger problem that we're trying to fix? in his campaign finance part of it. Yeah. Well, I just wanted to start with one question so we can have other questions. I just didn't put them on the list. Well, what were you what were you thinking? Well, I I

because I feel already people are starting to think about reh re-election and talk about it. I think when we look at the at the potential downsides is one of them was a view of incumbents trying to you know make things easier for them. And so it feels like it would be important it for us to be transparent in our discussions if that's on anybody's mind about the time spent running for reelection as opposed to doing the council job. Is that what you mean? the time spent running while doing the council job already that that is a factor that is on people's minds. I think it's good to put it there, you know. Yeah. Um

which which is different from not just not wanting to be bothered. Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, just clarify. And um I guess you know my experience of running while I'm rookie on this on this group, my experience of running four times has been that it was so educational. Yeah.

Um to be two times when I was running for mayor like I was all over the city on every street. Um, but it regardless like being on every street in your ward, the conversations you have, you I feel so strongly that I need to be re-educated every two years probably because I'm I'm hearing from about the same 200 people a lot once I'm elected and I have to get out. Um, there's a lot of people who aren't out at events to chat. It's not I'm exaggerating 200. It's a lot more than that in in my ward who seem to be active on some issues, but but still like the conversations that I had with people who never participated in in civic life, they need to stay resonating with me and and I'm concerned that I could start to get insulated from that

after by the time I got to year three and and year four. Um, and I also appreciated the fact that this most recent one, it was a contested election. And so I thought that was really cool because um Matt um and Lucy were running and Matt Bormet and Lucy Moore and it just like allowed our forums and conversations to crystallize the current issues like around development and housing and and we couldn't have seen any was coming with the Trump era. But I felt like that um that was like a very powerful form of civic life that there were a lot there were a lot scores of people were engaged in those discussions and seeing that happen on a two-year basis I think is nice at this local level. Um let me see if I just I'm taking a lot of time. While you're flipping through that, may I

Sure. Yes. Um,

so candidates who've been uh been lucky enough to run on the post have had this conversation over the past few years. Do you still walk the ward? Yes. And do you have to wait four years before you walk the ward? No. Um and and so there there's an incentive to do it if you're in a contested election, but there's nothing to stop a council member from doing that every two years or even every year. Um so I've been trying to do half half and half half every year basically. um not because I'm running for election, but because I need to stay in touch with people.

I appreciate that. Thank you. And I'm not always necessarily making it making the goal. But yeah, I'm just saying there's another way of looking at it. Um Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. But but it certainly is more of an incentive if you know there's an election coming up. Yeah. Um, and you know, I'll I'll be clear. I've not I've not had the experience of running for re-election, so I don't know how that stacks up on top of, you know, the June to November period. And three of you do. Okay. Um, we'll see. I know you just said June.

So, uh, oh, I just have one more thing. Um, just pointing out the US House has two-year terms. Um, I wonder that would be reaching way back though to read the founders language and I have some questions about the founders. Um, okay. But my last thing was that periodically in this conversation so far um it's been alluded to that it's been difficult having four new members and just you know you know be direct how how has it hurt council performance to have four new members so far? I I wouldn't say that it necessarily impacts council performance as much as it just requires additional effort of everyone that whose job it is is to support and educate members of council. There is a lot of there is there are very few issues that we address that don't have a very very very long sorted history. and and when you have a large number of new people and so you you have to learn the history of these things. You have to learn the the the policies and how to kind of do stuff. You have to understand realistically setting your expectations. Understand that that that you don't direct staff. You're a legislator. Like all of those things. And so when you have a large volume of your council that's in that place, it can be very challenging to manage. And it doesn't mean that it necessarily makes us completely inept. You know, we've been able to get some really big things through. Um even with this this council, you know, we've been

able to get some big things through, but it just requires quite a bit more time. And I I I often um refer back to my first term on council, which was that oneoff three-year term. And I will tell anyone, it was the best term I had. I It was the best. I had the first year to figure out how to hit the mic and what's the difference between an ordinance and a resolution. And then I had the second year to do the work and learn and not necessarily um definitely work on behalf of my constituents but not feel the added pressure of having to run for reelection and being very mindful of of kind of how to do things. And then the third year you're you're you're in your you also that second year you had your own budget. So the first term, the first year, it's not your budget. It's developed quite frankly before you or the the the mindset of it is developed before you. The second year that is your own budget and you're not afraid about not getting reelected because you're not running for re-election. And then the third year is okay, then you have your budget and you are also up for reelection. So you have to balance those things. So it it for me personally I felt I had that secondyear breather particularly as because the most important thing that we all of this stuff that we're doing right now is important but the most important thing that we do as a council consistently every year is the budget. And so the the budget gets easier as you become more familiar with the process and how to do it and what to look for. you have more of these cat these you know aturs and all of these different

reports under your belt then you start to maintain the history but when you have a majority council and you have a lot of turnover every two years it's starting from scratch particularly as it relates to the budget every two so that's just something that is important to keep in mind and that that next cycle is going to be in the same boat you know I come in you're giving me a budget. I have no idea what this means. I have no idea how how it's done. I haven't had the privilege of kind of understanding all the history. And then the next year, I have a budget, but I'm running for reelection. So, there's some things that I may be feeling external more external pressure to do than if it was I had a free year to just really think through how I would prefer for the budget to be. So, it's that that's just the reality. you're always listening to your residents, but that's just the reality of running while you're in the seat.

Thank you so much for sharing that perspective. Um, it's partly the perspective of what it's like to be doing the job and then it's partly the perspective of what the council needs to be doing well. So, I hear you. Um I I get I suppose there's some sort of tipping point where if you had two new members after an election, you know, the the ship would stay its course a little better. And so going back to my earlier question, I wonder whether if we had four-year terms whether we might still sometimes drop off the cliff and suddenly have four new members and and it could be quite a strange group dynamic where you had three incumbents who had been there for four or more years and then four people who all had to be caught up on four years of history simultaneously. Yeah.

Yeah. That's why I'm a I'll I'll see the other other folks here, but that's one of the reasons why I have these buckets and I'm like, let's talk more about the staggered um to try to address some things like that. Uh Council Member Hanzac,

I just want to build a little bit on what Council Member Schlaggel was sharing. Um I mean, I think you're you're right. Uh you know, campaigning and getting out, it was definitely the most powerful thing that I ever did. Um, and I I this year in my, you know, whatever, my second term, I guess I'm now in this second year, I wish that I had had the ability to go out and do more campaigning. Um, but I was also doing the job, you know, while doing this. And I found that hard. Uh, but I was getting out a lot. But again, I I know I'm I'm like a repeat, but for me trying to do this job and spending the number of hours that it requires and then on top of that trying to also do anything that is super what I'd consider superfluous campaigning like that's not really helping me do the job better isn't is not a good use of um my time that's very very restricted and very much not compensating. ated um where I'm already stressed. So, I don't really want to see that happen either. That's one of the benefits I see of the longer terms. And then then um I mean I think it's important to remember that when someone is campaigning before they've come into office, if they're not an if they're not an incumbent, even if they are, it's absolutely uncompensated time. I mean, they're not they they'd have to have some sort of complete luxury to be able to have that kind of time in their life to be able to run and not get any any compensation whatsoever. So, it's and it's a very intensive job, especially if you do something like run for mayor on the, you know, the entire town. It's it's really it's very important to me that people see it as a luxury and understand it's not for it's

only for a very small segment of of our community. Um, and so maybe that gets back to like campaign finance, but I won't address that right now and and and such. But um, but and then um I I am concerned about the time it takes to educate new city council members. So I'd be interested in sort of thinking through the economics I guess of this some kind of staggering because I can see how much how how useful the first two years really were of myself getting educated and I have a policy background, you know, and and my colleagues and and kind of what it took for us to hit a rhythm and and I can see now now being part of this this second around, you know, within a short span of time of four new people coming on. I can see there's just a lot of, you know, different you have to hit you have to hit a rhythm at some point hopefully and and by the time you hit the rhythm, you know, your term's almost over. So, it's, you know, it's like any team.

Thank you, Council Member Hanzac. Council member Wesley.

Thank you. Um, one of the things I'm thinking about, uh, primarily is like who would run. Um, I think, uh, a lot of the points that Council Member Hanzac has made, I agree with and that I think it's really important that any any and all steps we can take to make the council more representative of the city is better. Um, I agree though, the number one barrier is the pay. Um, so that's that's just like um I don't want to say elephant in the room. It's like, okay, here's the elephant. It's pay. That's really the number one thing. Okay, so putting that to the side. Um, I think it's interesting to think about, you know, taking out campaigning as often because that is very costly. Um, but and I wonder I wonder who if it changes the demographic of who would say, "Okay, I'll try running if it's a two-year commitment versus a four-year commitment." And I I I don't know the answer that I don't I really don't know. Um, but that's just what I'm I'm really thinking on because like I said, I the more representative we can be, the better. Um, so I would take it seriously if I felt like it was going to have an impact on that.

Great. Thank you. Uh, so I am trying to think through my buckets because I I can waffle. Um, and so for me it's about okay, who who's running? Like how do we make sure that we're creating a process that will enable and empower people to run? I mean, I I will say, you know, it took a few people asking me to run before I decided to run for city council. And I will be very transparent in saying I don't know if I would have ran um if it had been presented as a four-year commitment. Um at that time, it was presented as a three-year. Now again, just so everybody understands my frame of life and what I always tell anyone that works for me, everybody, you could do anything for three years. You could be a goat herder in Mexico for three years. It's going to take you

It's going to take you a year to find the outhouse, a year to actually hold the a year to actually herd the goats to realize you can't stand it, and then another year to find another job. So you can you can do anything for three years. Um so it's it's so in my mind because that's just the mindset that I have. Okay, I could do anything for three years, you know, cuz it's just the nature of the beast. Um but when we are talking about how to get people to want to run and then what do we need to make sure that we do in order to um empower people to do so. I think uh campaigning is very hard. It is it is costly. Um, and so I do think that between the cost of running and trying to make sure that we're figuring out ways to make sure that people um, may be willing to run um, is going to be really important. But I also um, my other bucket is about the work question mark. Do you necessarily want a council that is full of people who are like, I'm just going to try this out for a year and then you're gone. And then the next I'm just going to try this out for a year and a half and then you're gone. Um because there is work that the council needs to do. So there there does need to be some level of not just interest but also some level of commitment um in order to ensure that you know we have the work being done and that we're prioritizing the work. Um, so and then two when I'm thinking about like who is

voting um and making sure that we are structuring the system to ensure that we're empowering people to vote and not creating disincentives. I heard um a lot of people were confused between our elections and federal elections in light of and I am constantly thinking about the the the downstream impacts of what's happening at the federal level. Um I anticipate this election cycle is going to be much harder to get immigrants to trust that they can vote in our elections. Um, and the more that it is in alignment to some degree, and that's why I'm waffling, um, because I am concerned that the more that it is also in alignment with the federal election schedule and the ballots and all of that stuff, could that potentially cause someone to say, um, I'm undocumented. I don't feel comfortable voting in the city election anymore, even though they're allowed to. Um, and that's just something that I'm trying to think through in addition to what may happen with the youth and and how um their scheduling may work. Um, and then also, you know, how much money does it cost? There's a lot of money that we don't have. And so how how do we figure out a way to make sure that we're still able to at a at a higher tier reach our goals of making sure that we have a diverse group of folks that are willing to run and that people still feel comfortable running um uh voting in our elections. Um and we we're prioritizing the work and minimizing and creating efficiencies for staff as well. But then how do we do it in a way that's cost effective? So, those are like some of the things that I'm just trying to waffle through. I'm not ready because it's late and I did not have dinner, which is part of the

reason why I could barely read through the agenda tonight. But um just trying to um think through all of these moving pieces of um the work like making sure that the actual work that we're doing is can be done effectively with staff and the budget and all of those things. And so what's a structure that might make a little more sense? Maybe it is a fouryear with a two-year stagger, right? That means okay well then once you roll it in and the budget for example you have always a couple of folks that are already familiar with the process and then you have others that could can cycle in. Um so for me it's like okay how do we make sure that we're able to create the environment that's easier for people to be able to dig deep into the work. Um and so that's those are some of the things I'm thinking through. I will say um I appreciate the point raised about aligning with the midterms for voter turnout because again I think it's it we're we're having to balance different things. Um because I also think that if we were to try to start this, I was questioning whether or not 26 is too soon, especially if we were to move through the process of staggering, which I'm becoming far more open to. But then what would that look like in terms of how to stagger it? Like is it mayor one way, then you know, mayor at one time, and then council members kind of broken up in other ways? I don't know. I would be interested in in how um other communities are staggering um their um their council terms. All right, Council Member Schlaggel.

Oh, yeah. Just one last thought. I forgot about staggering. Actually, since you mentioned that,

when I was reading the board of elections memo, they said sometimes it's you have to figure out at the outset, you know, who's going to be on for this election, who's going to be on for two years later. And then you can do a coin flip or you can base it on whoever gets the the largest margin of victory and say, "Okay, we're going to give them four years. The other one the other seats will have two." Then I started thinking like how does that work when you have um a seven member council and one member is the atlarge mayor because then in perpetuity like let's take three numbers let's say two four and six let's say ws two four and six are also getting reelected at the same time as the mayor then uh the for those members to think about running for mayor might be harder because they have to choose whereas the 135 members are like, "Hey, I'm midterm. I'll just take a shot at mayor." You know what I mean? It's I just wondered about that. And so it might it seems like it might like lead over time to having three wards that were more likely to produce a mayor than the other three.

Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Uh Council Member Dala, Yep. We're wrapping up.

Okay. Um, in in closing, I hear some areas people would like to see more information. I'm I'm going to encourage you to have um Council Member Weslick and I talked about here's a question. How do we get more information on it? Um, so any thoughts that you have in the morning and when you wake up after after sleeping on this about how to get the information to help inform this that would be very helpful. Um because I for example got two emails today and one said fouryear terms are really going to harm diversity and the other one said fouryear terms are really going to help because people who need to have a job they need they need they need to know they're going to have a job. I was like okay so how do we do we pick five communities with four-year terms and ask them how diverse their councils are? I mean, what how do we get at these things? That's that's what I'm asking is some help on that. Um, and then to the initial question that Councilman Hanzac brought up, what's the problem we we're trying to solve? I think there were two. So if there was a pre-slide in front of this one, I think it would say that the one problem has to do with the issues that have been identified about our elections and that the other problem has to do with with how to make c how which the council compensation committee touched upon, how to best attract candidates that are diverse and how to support council members to be the most effective.

And so in my perhaps naive, I wondered if this might be a way to solve them. So um but I I think to your to your very good question, there are two problems that I think we're trying to solve. So that's that's my last thought on that for now. All right. Well, um, Council Member Hans, I see another hand, but I would prefer because we're almost at 11:30. Yes. All right. All right. Okay. Wonderful. We're gonna have a Just so everybody knows, we're going to have a couple more times to talk about this, right? Oh, yeah. So, we we don't have to get it all out tonight. Get to hear what everybody else does.

Yes. So, with that, I'm gonna uh just make sure folks are okay with me banging this gavvel so that we can go ahead and call it a night. All right. Great. Thank you all so much. Have a great night.