City Council - Special Meeting

It is 6.45 p.m. We will call the special work session city council meeting to order. We do have a quorum and we'll start with the public forum. Individuals may address the city council about items on the agenda or not included on the agenda. Speakers are required to state their name and address for the council record and limit their remarks to three minutes or fewer. Speakers are requested to frame their comments around items that fall within the authority of the city council Generally the City Council will not take action on the items discussed at this time, but may place the item on file, take the matter under advisement, refer the matter to staff or a committee for a future report, or direct the matter to be placed on an upcoming agenda. Does anybody wish to speak? Does anybody wish to speak? Does anybody wish to speak? Hearing and seeing none, we will continue with the bill's discussion. Is there any discussion on the bills? Hearing and seeing none, we'll continue to the consent agenda item discussion. Any discussion on the consent agenda? Okay, hearing and seeing none, we will move on to council information only items. A, 2027 Street Improvements, Public Works Director Kimmon.

Thank you, Mr. President. So, um, up in front of you on the screen, uh, you have kind of an exhibit of what we're potentially looking at for our 2027 projects. Um, some of them are in their infancy. Some of them are a little bit farther along. Just wanted to kind of go through that, um, as we've got a couple of them this evening that are on the regular work or regular meeting, um, to start the project in terms of the feasibility and such. Um, but I wanted to kind of go through, uh, some of the costs and some of the implications, um, and some of the projects just to kind of, to go through that. So starting on the right, we've got the roundabout at 18th Street. We've kind of talked about that one quite a bit. We got $3.6 million in grants for that project. The city portion is going to be roughly around $600,000 for that project. We do have state aid funds that we'd be using for our local portion of it. So impact to our budget, impact to our levy would be negligible or zero just because we already have those state aid funds. For those of you that are not familiar with state aid funds, we can use that money on certain roads throughout the City of Little Falls and only for surface portion of the project. So, block top, curb and gutter, sidewalks, that type of stuff. Moving a little bit to the left, we'll look at the Ripley Spur, which is 1st and 4th Street, the two railroad crossings. That project, we received $1 million in grant funds for that. Again, that's going to be a 2027 project that we're looking at. With that one, the city share would be right around $300,000. Again, we'd be looking at state aid funds to offset that, so there would be zero impact to our levy or to our budget. The next one that we'll touch on is First Street Northeast. For me, that one is a priority. That's one of our top projects. top priorities for 2027, mainly because that used to be old Highway 10. It used to have concrete pavement underneath it, so whenever anybody has to do sewer and water, they've got to break through that. Plus, it has an odd size for their water main, and so if that ever breaks, we actually have to try to find parts throughout the US, which is challenging. We saw that when we did our parking lot. So that's one that I want to get taken care of. Yes. So that's part of the, that's part of the Ripley spur project is we would add that crossing for, um, for the railroad tracks. Yes.

Yep.

So first street Northeast, um, like I mentioned, that is one of our top priorities. We did get a million dollars and grants for that one. We're also, tentatively in line for another $600,000 in grants for that one, and then also in line for roughly $6 million in low-interest loans from Drinking Water Revolving Fund and the Clean Water Revolving Fund. Those are obviously loans, so those will have to be repaid back. That would be a two-year project that we'd be looking at, so that would hit our budget and our levy in 2029 is when the first payment would be. Looking at the southwest part of town. Yes.

On that one, I know at some point, Camp Ripley Veterans Trail is going to have to cross it. Do you have money allocated for that crossing there?

As far as along the corridor?

Yep.

Yep, we would anticipate that. Okay. Yes. So looking at 13th Street Southwest, that is one of the projects that were petitioned. You have the... resolution in your packet this evening. That one did receive 39% of the residents along there petitioned or should say property owners petitioned for that project. That's essentially turning that gravel into blacktop. We'll have to look at the storm sewer as well to make sure that it gets taken care of. So I would likely see that one as moving forward as well just because of the sheer number of residents that petitioned for it. That will impact our levy in 2028, just because we will have to assess for that project. The next one we're looking at is the green one. That was not a petition project, and this one I'm looking for direction from the council on that one. That's not on the packet, but just looking for your direction on it. Over the years, we've heard that it's been a priority to convert the gravel roads on the west side to blacktop. this would be an opportunity to do just that. For those of you that have been around a while and heard me say this about assessment projects, we have to say above 20%. Whenever we do an assessment project or a construction project and we bond for it, we have to say above 20% in order to sell those bonds. With the avenues, the way that they are because they're the long side of the lot, we essentially get half of what we would for those assessments. And so it's really difficult to do those avenues because we're getting half as much. Generally speaking, we're right around that 22%, 23% assessed. And if you do those as standalone projects, cut that in half, now you're down to 11, 12%. The only way we could do it is if we had cash in the bank to be able to do that. We can't afford that. So tying it to another project is essential if you wanted to make those gravel roads blacktop. So this is where we'd be looking for direction. Is that something the council would want to pursue? Again, that would be a 2022. impact to our levy, but it's something that Wanda threw out there. If we wanted to do those, this would be the time.

I think that's a great idea, Greg, because I know we were at 301 Leavitt Street Southwest and that avenue is still dirt. For someone living that close, if it was 13th Street, 14th Street, that'd be a little different story, but I think that's a great idea to get those roads tarred.

I want to go back to the roundabout if I can. You said that the money we're getting is road servicing.

Correct.

What about the land we're buying?

That would be part of that cost. That's why I'm asking.

I was confused.

The right-of-way acquisition would be an eligible expense that we could use our state aid funds for. We would be looking to use some of those for that, yes. Thank you.

Essentially, just to clarify, if we tie the red project into the green project, all the same project, it's easier to get bonds for it?

Correct.

At a lower interest rate too, right?

The interest rate is going to be dependent on what, like the tenure, um, treasury bills are going to be. So the interest rate really wouldn't have much effect on it, but we, the only way that you're gonna be able to do the green project is if you tie it to another one. So the red one is right there. It's an opportunity.

Yeah. That's correct. No brainer.

Correct. Have you sent letters out to the homeowners yet?

Not, not yet. So the way that the chapter four 29, which is the assessment process goes, but first we receive a petition if somebody petitions for it or it's staff initiated from there. And that's what we've got on the, on the council packet this evening for two of them, which would be the 13th street, the red one up there, and then fourth Avenue, which we haven't touched on, but that's the blue one. Um, council would authorize, um, the feasibility report. We go through detail, the expenses, um, what the proposed improvements are, what the condition is existing, um, bring that back to the council, kind of go over what, what the project would entail. You'd be able to see the costs at that point, and then the council would then authorize to have a public hearing where you would then send it out to the residents, have them come in and voice their opinion if they're in favor or not in favor of it. They would also see what the assessments look like for those various projects, and then you'd be able to hear what their opinion is on it. The last one, oh, go ahead, yep.

i get a lot of complaints because that sort of four-wheelers and the dirt bikes like to show off what they can do donuts and everything so probably a lot of residents would like to see that blacked up sure yep greg would it just be class 5 with overlay then or

No, we would have to likely dig down roughly two feet, take all the material, bring sand in and then the class five and then the blacktop curb and gutter and storm sewer would be in there as well.

That would include curbs.

Yes. Yep. In general, the west side has heavier soils and it's more susceptible to frost. So if we don't dig down that two feet and bring the sand back, then you start getting differential settlement where the manholes will either stay down and the road will go up or vice versa. You get a lot of shifting. And so we And it's customary standard practice to cut down that two feet, get that sand in there so that you don't have that frost zone. The road seems to stay in place a lot better. You don't have shifting and material that breaks.

What about storm sewers?

Storm sewers, they're buried usually about three feet, so they're right underneath that.

So we would have to add them as well?

Absolutely, yes.

That would be part of the project?

That would be correct, yep, yep. The last one that we have is 4th Avenue Northeast that is on the agenda this evening. We did receive a petition from one property owner to resurface that area. We do know that the storm sewer in that area is actually popping up through the roadway. You can see if you drive over there, there's a mound in the roadway and that's where the storm sewer is coming up. Again, in this area, it's much like the west side where it's heavier soils, more susceptible to frost. And so it's, it's pushing that storm sewer up because they did not, um, know that at the time to put that two foot of sand section in there. So if we do fourth Avenue Northeast, we would have to dig that two feet out, replace the storm sewer, put that two feet of sand back in, and then build that, that pavement section up. Um, this one is at the bottom of our list in terms of priorities, simply because, um, this one has a lot of properties that are on the short side. meaning it's the front side of their house. Um, we would be able to do that project essentially at, at any time that the council wants to for assessment purposes. Um, and when we're looking at budget, um, right now we've got quite a few of projects that are pretty expensive, uh, coming forward in 27, 28. Um, and I can run through a couple of those, um, as well, but I would probably think this is going to be one of those that we, that falls off the list in terms of being able to construct in, in 2027. Another project that was not on the agenda here on the packet, I actually spoke with a gentleman this afternoon. Over on Derosier Drive, there is a property that has a failing septic system. And so he's indicated that they'll be petitioning to finish the sanitary and water on Derosier Drive for that. So that'll be another one that's coming up. And in terms of where those lay, I would probably put Derosier Drive above the green ones simply because when you're talking about a septic system failing, that's going to be more important, at least in my mind, than converting it from gravel to blacktop. But if that's a priority for the council to convert those from gravel to blacktop, then the green one would be something to consider as well.

How far down Derosier City?

Is city? Is the city... is the roger of city street it is yep all of the rogers all the way and back around the mississippi boulevard that's all all city that's where it ties in correct yep yep so if we zoom back out i can kind of give some extremely high level costs um for for some of these we talked about the roundabout in terms of the levee impact and ripley spur impacts so first street northeast we're projecting that to be about an $8 million project. Hitting the levy is going to be right around that $5.5 to $6 million. Hitting the levy in 2029 is when we would sell bonds for that. 13th Street Southwest, right around 1.1 is what we're anticipating to hit the levy on that one. That would be a 28 because it's only going to be a one-year project. Looking at the Southwest extension, which is the green ones, that's right around that million dollar impact for it. And then the blue one, which is fourth Avenue, that's going to be about $700,000 impact on the levy again, potentially in 2028, because that's a one-year project. And erosive drive is going to be right around that same dollar amount. And so looking at that, we know that we can't afford all of those. That's just the reality of it. That's a lot of, a lot of money that we're, that we're looking at. And so at some point here in the very near future, we're going to have to, pair these down, um, to reasonable projects in terms of what we can afford. Um, so any questions on the projects in general?

Greg, um, correct me if I'm wrong. It was my understanding when we were annexed and then do the Roser area. And if our septic failed, we had to hook up. We cannot put a septic in. Is that correct or not?

Sort of. It's not part of the annexation agreement, but it is part of our city code that if the septic fails and you are within 500 feet of sanitary sewer, that you would have to hook up to the city sewer. The particular property is within that 500 feet, so they would have to ask the city to extend the sewer and water through there. We wouldn't grant a permit for a septic system. Now, if the city said, nope, we're not going to do Derosier Drive, then obviously the person needs to be able to get a variance from that, from that septic system requirement. Um, because you can't have both, you can't have a failing septic system and no sewer available. So they've got to do one or the other. Um, but the requirement would be at least a petition to have sewer on that stretch.

Okay. Thank you.

How, how far down to Rosier is that roughly the sewer or the property?

Uh, both. Um, the sewer is roughly halfway. Um, and the property is on the far west end.

Okay. Is it on the river? No, it's not.

So realistically, and I think we looked at this back in 2015 is when we originally looked at it. Um, we would extend sewer all the way around. If I remember right, sewer can, it can, it can get halfway and then the rest of it has to go over to Mississippi Boulevard. Um, but you're only looking probably 400 feet, um, maybe a little bit more, maybe 600 feet from the derosier portion of it. And then another 600 feet from the, um, from the Mississippi Boulevard side, where you get the manhole in the middle to split and goes north and goes east.

Is there a way we can look at doing that, putting it in the right array, especially in an environment like that, but not right under the middle of the street.

Typically, you put it under the middle of the street just because of how deep that sewer is. That sewer is going to be the deepest part. And so you put it in the middle so that you have room on either side to put the dirt and make that hole and make that construction. If you see the construction like on 4th Street, the trench that they have is extremely wide just because of how far down they have to go and OSHA requirements for the trench width. That's why you put it underneath the center of the road to give you that wiggle room to be able to get that trench in there and get that constructed.

Yeah, I get all that, but I think at some point we have to look at is the way it's always done the best and the only way. Like if I could hop in my time machine, we lay our utilities in the old part of the city through the alleys.

and not the streets. I wouldn't do that. Brainerd has some in the alleys. They're only 20 feet wide. So there's really no room to turn around. Uh, when you have an excavator to make that swing, um, it's extremely difficult to get that construction done, which in turn drives the costs up there again.

I mean, what's I don't work in the field, so I don't know what the limits are on directional boring. I know they're growing by leaps and bounds. Just to me, look at, I mean, they make these machines pretty big and my guess is they have no trouble going 400 feet, punching a line through.

Correct. The challenge with directional boring right now is the ability to keep grade. So the slope that we have an eight inch pipe is only 0.4%. you're only looking at two feet drop, a 1.4 feet drop between one manhole and the next. The bigger the pipe, the flatter it goes. With directional drilling, you don't have the capacity or the ability to keep that grade where it's at, and so you end up getting basically bellies in the pipe, which is where the solids come out, and that's where you start getting plugs. So I would shy away from that if I could because of that reason. Thank you. Yep.

Any more discussion? Okay. And then just to be clear, we're voting on the feasibility of every one of these projects.

So this evening tonight we'd be voting on the feasibility of the red and the blue only. Um, this evening right now, the red one would be my number two. The blue would probably be down on the list of number five or six. Um, well, red's not blue or red is not too red. It's going to be one, number four. Uh, just because the, Roundabout and Ripley Spur would be on top of it or be above that. But the blue one would definitely be at the bottom of my recommendation just because that one we could do at any point in time and the number of residents that have requested that particular one.

How many people live on that 4th Avenue?

4th Avenue, it was only 5%, but I think it's probably close to 20 some people that would live on there that have properties on that stretch. There's a pretty good handful.

Okay.

With all that said, we're moving on to item B Lindbergh centennial commemoration contribution request update finance director. Actually, I will be filling in for Sony today.

Uh, thank you, council president. So we've got, um, following up from our last council meeting, we had talked about the request from the friends of Lindbergh heritage group, um, originally in September 24. Council had, um, agreed in the budgeting process. So it was not through a formal vote to set aside $50,000 over 26 or 25 and 26 for the air show. Um, the situation was that it was specifically allocated for the air show specifically, and the air show is no longer taking place. So friends of Lindbergh heritage asked to get permission to utilize those dollars for different aspects of their celebration. Council asked for more information. So we got some of that information. We do have Susie Presapio from friends of Lindberg heritage, and then a perfect year from the chamber tourism on if there's any specifics on this. So with the request on more information of what that 50,000 would go to, it is, uh, initially budget or intended for two day airport event, which is 38,000. That includes the fly-in, airplane rides, military aircraft and war bird displays, parachute jump, flyovers, as well as insurance and fuel and such. The public art installation that the tourism is working on, 10,000, and the parade, 2,000. And the overall budget for the event is still being determined as they're working through the plans for that. One of the other requests was the budget for the art piece. So from Purva, she said it looks like 31,000 right now, 20,000 going to the mosaic artist, 10,000 for the metal frame, 1,000 for the informational panel installation, and the unveiling and ceremony is still being determined for cost. So the initial request was for council to discuss and either approve or modify the request for the use of these funds, as well as the ability to authorize cash disbursements to begin near the end of 26 as their bills begin to come in.

Any discussion?

May I ask who the mosaic artist is? Is that somebody in town or out of town?

Perva's going to have to answer that one.

Who's doing the mosaic, Perva?

Feel free to step up. If that's appropriate, yes.

You can invite her or Susie to speak during this.

Hello, everyone. Purva with the Chamber and Tourism. So for the mosaic art, the art itself, it's Laura Rupert. She's out of St. Cloud. And she's the one that has done the mosaic art panels in Lake George. So they're going to be essentially similar. I did bring an example of what they're going to look like. It's going to be three panels that are going to be 3 by 5 feet. And then the metal frame itself is going to be 5 by 8 feet, which is Mr. Frank for that.

Okay, so when we say mosaic, it's not stained glass?

It is not. So it's going to be pieces of it, and then she's going to put it together as a mosaic. So they are very sturdy, hard glass panels that are going to go up. Basically very similar. I don't know if you've seen the artwork at Lake George. It's basically similar to that.

It's going up on Le Bourget Park?

It's going to be three panels in La Brugere Park, correct?

Is that permanent?

It is permanent, yes, sir.

Is vandalism a concern with this type of artwork?

So we've talked to her about it and, you know, we cannot guarantee people not doing that, but it is something that's going to be easily going to be able to be fixable if we need to because of the materials that she's going to use and the way it's going to be installed.

Greg, do we have security cameras on that park yet? I know we put them around different parks for different reasons.

We don't, not at Labor Day, we don't. I believe when we first met, there was going to be like a plexiglass thing over the top of it, so that would kind of also limit the potential for damage.

Well, I'll continue the conversation. I was probably the one that put up the most stink, for lack of a better term, at the last meeting. One thing that disappointed me is I did ask specifically to see what type of artwork was going to go into the park, and we never got a chance to do that. I know it was presented. I've gotten a lot more information over the last three weeks since our last meeting, and I've realized why decisions were made the way that they were made, and I'm totally fine with the logic behind them. I was just a little disappointed that It went to the parks board, evidently the parks board didn't have a quorum for two of the three meetings so far this year. And it was never presented to the council. We're putting it into a city park, it's under our purview to know what this artwork is going to look like. And then the funding was also a hang up for me, but I've since gotten more information about that as well. And with the correct me if I'm wrong, with the budget for the sister city celebration or the centennial celebration, I should call it, that was something that's been budgeted over two years? I thought it was budgeted over five years, 10,000 a year.

Two years.

Okay. So this is money that has been allocated for the celebration. I'm not going to micromanage what the centennial organization wants to do with that money. So end of the day, I'm fine with this project. I just wish that the communication levels would have been a little bit better.

Absolutely understandable. We did take the feedback into consideration, and there was a public survey done according to the council feedback after we made that presentation last year. So that's how we were able to gather some public feedback from the overall community. So I apologize if it wasn't specifically presented to you all, but next time I'll make sure I do that.

Well, it's not specifically your fault. It's just a lot of communication lines got crossed or missed or whatever.

Absolutely understandable. Thank you.

Mr. President, I'm going to chime in on this. I'm the guy who built frames, but I wasn't under our last meeting was stated that city council or anybody could not get any profits from this. When I initially did the project with them, it was through the chamber or probably a convention and visitor. And so I wasn't There was no intent on my part that I was going to take some city money. And, uh, I would act, I'm going to abstain anyway. So my vote is going to be a no either way, but I would have voted no because I was involved, even though it kind of came about in a different way. So, uh, and I'm also one of these sticklers on that money was allocated for the fly in. I believe it should go back into the general fund because that's what we voted on back then. And I just feel that's the way I would have voted. So with that all said and done, it's going to be up to the rest of the council, which way it goes anyway. Uh, I will not be voting on it because I'm leaving here in a JUST EXPRESS MY FEELINGS ON IT.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT? FEEL FREE, YES.

CAN I ASK A QUESTION QUICK FIRST? YES. THANK YOU. IF THE FLY OVER HAD NOT BEEN CANCELED, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE PAID FOR THIS ART INSTALLATION, THE $30,000?

So the total project cost is around $31,000. So the Chamber and Tourism is pitching in a good chunk of that. We're pitching in around $15,000 towards it from our special project funds. The rest of it, we've received $7,000 so far with various grants, so that's where that So now we're looking to be able to get the rest of it. And it's either going to be grants, or it's going to be some other way that we're gonna have to come up with.

And from information that I gathered, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Purva, but you had some employees that left rather abruptly, and this is one of the balls that got dropped, I'm assuming?

Correct.

from them leaving and the individual is supposed to apply for grants and she took a different position in a different city so that got missed as well.

So, I mean, yeah, we did apply for grants. Uh, one big one that we were hoping to get was sadly, um, it was rejected for this specific project. So the other, uh, choice was to see if we will be able to fundraise enough, uh, through various means. Um, however, you know, uh, we're working with friends of Lindberg heritage. So, uh, that was one of the requests that we had made.

And I just wanted to clarify a couple things. On behalf of the Friends of Lindberg Heritage, when tourism brought forward this opportunity to have sort of a lasting memorial to the centennial event, we wanted to be involved, and we allocated the $10,000 at that point. As Purva said, the grant work, the grant did not come through, so We said it could be used for that. Otherwise, we are going to use it for any sort of a celebration or whatever about on the installation of it. It was targeted at the artist Laura Luprecht. So in terms of Mr. Goshek's concerns, it was never targeted for that. It was to pay for half of the artists work so i think i don't know how the city works but hopefully that would get around any concerns about a conflict of interest and just to maybe maybe sum up unless we have other thoughts i do feel it's important that we celebrate the limbrick centennial i mean he was the most famous person on the planet for a large long period of time so

we need to do as a community, whether the $50,000, you know, the first plans fell through and I understand that, but we do need to do something.

That was forgiveness, but I have to go.

Thank you, Frank. Any other discussion?

Thank you, ladies.

Okay, hearing none, do we have any constituent messages?

Council President, I do want to make, not necessarily council or constituent message, but I want to add really quick, we do have our city council open house on September 15th from 4.30 to 7. That will be right here.

Okay.

15.

With that being said, no constituent messages. We will adjourn this meeting at 7.17.