City Council - Regular Meeting

Well, good evening everybody and welcome to the South Burlington City Council meeting for April 20th, 2026. Uh for our first agenda item, we will uh recite the pledge of allegiance led by our city manager, Jesse Baker. We're going to get the flag out first.

Very visible. Indivisible to the flag of the United States of America.

Thank you very much. Item two is instructions on exiting the building in case of an emergency and a review of our technology options with the city manager Jesse Baker.

Thank you. Uh so for those in the room, thank you for joining us. If there's an emergency during this meeting, you can go out um either the left or right side of the auditorium and then turn left or right to get outside. For those joining us remotely, thank you for joining us. As well, if you'd like to speak during any item on the agenda, you can use the raise hand feature and the chair will call on you or you can indicate that you're interested in chatting in the uh Q&A in the webinar feature and I will have the chair call on you. Other than that, we are not monitoring the chat for content. Thank you, Jesse. Uh, item three, which is agenda review. Do we have any additions, deletions, or changes in the order of our agenda items tonight? Okay, great. Going to item four, which is time for comments and questions from the public for items that are not on our agenda tonight. We have two hands raised. The first hand was in the back. come on down and uh look carefully at the directions on the podium there and and then tell us your name, please. Hello, Drew Schetszer from South Burlington. Um I'm probably going to say something later about the agenda item, but I also just wanted to mention a couple things first. Um, one being I just want to let folks know that we had a community member, one of our South Burlington residents leave on Saturday to go join um a group that's doing an aid flotillaa to Palestine um in the coming weeks. So, Jimmy Le, you guys probably know him. I know he's he's run for city council before. So, I just wanted to do a shout out to Jimmy. We're all very proud of him. It's a dangerous and and heroic thing he's doing. He's a personal hero of mine. Um, so I'm going to be flying my flag on my car every day until he's home safe with us. Uh, I also wanted to mention shoot Oh, about

the the the task force conversation that came up in the last meeting. Um, there's just a couple points after discussing with some of our neighbors about what was decided. Um, I just wanted to echo some of their concerns as well as mine. one being that many of us believe that we need a third party facilitator to assist with that conversation, that task force conversation around March 11th. Um, another is just again the format that was decided on the community members that I've spoken with, we don't believe is is a very effective way to have this uh this conversation. It seems like it's closed off from the community at large. uh and and it's specifically focusing on groups that I think I think there's kind of a misunderstanding of what their role was that day and what they really do in our community. So, one being I think um Councilman Chelnik asked for leaders of migrant justice and um indivisible to to come speak. Um, from the conversations I've been having, Indivisible is a leaderless movement and it doesn't represent anyone or any particular thing and it doesn't seem like a very appropriate ask of them like it just seems like a flawed premise from the beginning to to invite a leader of that group to come speak with you. The other being migrant justice. They're very busy. They they have a lot of um other work. there very important work that they need to do and they just recently gave a very detailed um report of of you know their their summary of of what um went right or wrong with March 11th to the Burlington City Council. So I would just encourage you all to to watch that recording if you want to know what migrant justice has to say about what happened that day rather than asking

them to come repeat it all again for you. Um, so I don't know. It's probably nothing that can happen tonight. I don't know if there's a way we can maybe have another discussion at our next meeting, but um I think that the the task force needs to be um approached differently and and if you need to hear from other community members about that too, I can try to have more people here next time. But thank you. Thank you very much. Next.

My name is Michael Mitard. Um, I had a question about the current status of the conservation easement for Hubbed and who which land trust or who are we talking to about it. Um I haven't been here to make a news of myself for quite a while. Um and I the other question I have may not be appropriate for you but I think that some um this the South Burlington Land Trust should have a seat at the table on the advisory uh group for the parks master plan. They are the land trust is an important stakeholder when it comes to parks and open space and recreation and conservation. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. And Lisa Lisa Yanowski, I'm guessing is Lisa Y. Did you want to make a

Lisa? Can you hear me? Look, you're There you are. Are you talking? We can't hear you. Maybe. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yes, we hear you now.

Okay. Tech technological issues. Um, I just want to say uh thank you for the meeting uh with what Jesse had said and and I had already said something to Jesse the night of the last meeting when all the protesters were there. And I just wanted to add Andrew, I saw your comments in the other paper. Um, very succinct and thank you. Um, I think it gave a good overview of what transpired. That's all I have to say about that. Great. Thank you. Thanks, Lisa.

Anybody else? Anybody else in the audience? No. Okay, I'll respond to you. I'll respond to you in writing, Michael. All right. We're going to move on to item five, which is the council's announcements and reports on committee assignments and then the city manager's report. Who would like to go first? Elizabeth.

All right. Um, let's see. Um, I missed the last meeting. I did have a chance to view it. Um, and since then, um, I did attend the economic development meeting and sat in on that. Um, I won't report anything out um specifically. I know Andrew was at it um as well. I I would highly recommend um uh the there was a um summary of an airport report that I thought gave a lot of interesting facts and figures that were updated and maybe that would some be something that could be circulated. Um I also attended the planning commission meeting and um were you at that Andrew?

Yeah. Um just a couple quick highlights. I know Tim, you weren't able to be there, but um UBM uh uh presented their um long-term plan. Um and there's no development uh plan, no specific projects planned at this time. Uh but they did introduce others may be familiar with, but the concept of land banks, which is properties that they've identified for potential projects in the future, but there's nothing planned at this time. Um and then there was a a pretty robust discussion about uh the potential for the planning commission reviewing um sort of a combination of not so much senior housing but long-term care as well as small tomedium medical offices that may come back to council at some point. Um the housing also had their um uh I they had two um fair housing month events. One was on renters's rights which is held at the library. I was not able to attend that um but that is available um I believe it's available online. And then the second was a book discussion which I appreciate Beth and Andrew both coming to and unfortunately Andrew had to make the decision to not have a quorum at the meeting but um I appreciated him coming. Uh the book was called Brave New Homes and the group had a good discussion about the variety of um housing models that might be available for review um and housing policy that might um include smaller energy efficient um and different kinds of homes including ADUs um uh that might represent infill within our city. Um I just became aware today that there is a um in concert with um or South Carolina is sponsoring a session on ADUs on June 22nd. Um I don't think a

place is uh identified just yet, but I did hear that from Kelsey today. Um and I think that is it. Thank you.

Thank you, Andrew. Sure. Thanks. Um let's see. Busy couple of weeks. Um attended the safe rooms to school um group meeting. Um and there was a kind of robust discussion about what that group's going to do going forward because it it largely has fulfilled its mission now of identifying through surveys um uh issues um you know around the city that um impede um safe walking and biking to to our school system. you know, it's identified uh roots um and all that's kind of mapped out. Um there've been a various events also with with the schools, educational events. So, it's it's mostly fulfilled its mission. And the question is what what you know what what going forward and there was kind of consensus in the group that it makes sense to continue to have a forum where um the city and the school you know can get together and and talk about these things and that this is a good forum for that. So the intent was to ask bike ped to um basically allow the group to continue as it is on a on a perpetual basis and continue doing what it's doing. Um unfortunately I had I'm also on bike ped but I had to leave before that discussion in bike peds. I don't know exactly what the resolution was. I don't know if anyone does but hopefully uh the bike ped committee agreed to that. Um okay then um uh talking about bike ped um our our chief gave a really great discussion around bike ped safety traffic enforcement highlighted how um we're kind of doing more traffic enforcement now which should lead to safer roads and we had a robust discussion about ebikes and e-tos and talked about education and enforcement. So that was that was really good and thank you to the chief for for coming and the thoughtful uh the thoughtful presentation and then um bike ped committee discussed that their work plan and then again went on to safe roots of school which I I don't know what happened.

I attended the Sexton's meeting um and the Sex are hard at work really doing great work um focus on beautifification of of Eldred Cemetery. They've got this um large anonymous donation that they're they're using very judiciously um for for plantings and for for paths and um landscaping and thinking really hard about um how to make sure all that new stuff survives, how to get the water in and um really really good discussion. It's it's a great group. I attended the economic development committee meeting where there was um a presentation well there was discussion about the communication plan. One of one of one of those is one one of the strands of that is um the technology kind of innovation center and talked about beta and I don't really remember the details of that but um beta I said contributed 1.2 two billion I think was the number right of of to to the economy not exactly sure how that was computed and you know 6,000 jobs just you know hu huge economic engine for for the city um discussion about how much the economic development committee can do before we hire our director kind of back and forth and they're just kind of feeling that out to make sure they don't step on anybody's toes um kind of worked out their work plan so that was good meeting I did attend the renters's right workshop that was a joint a joint workshop by our housing committee thank you Elizabeth and CBOE there was a lot of folks there a lot of good discussion right to repair you know how to get your deposit back what is the eviction process look like and I thought that was really nice that um CBO CBO did that and then I was hoping to attend Brave New Home but unfortunately I guess we just didn't we didn't think enough about it and wasn't recorded and wasn't warned so um I think next time we have um sessions like that we'll we'll know to do it um a little more formally. So that's it.

Great, Andrew. Thank you, Ben.

Sure. I'm going to be very quick. Um so I did not have a committee meeting in the interim. Um the energy committee is this week. Uh I did attend the brave new home discussion and I think Elizabeth gave a nice overview of that. It was just a very um open discussion about people's impressions of how we got here and some of the creative ways that we can help address the you know the housing issues that were experiencing. Um and I think that's about it. I hoped to attend the the south this SB3C event but it got cancelled um unfortunately. So anyway, that's all I have. Thank you, Ben. Um, Andrew and I attended the conversations with the counselor last Saturday and we had three residents show up. Um, there was a request by one individual to uh how the how South Village could go ahead and try and resurrect a plan to get the recreation field that was planned there for which there's money to get that going again. U and then there was a spirit of discussion about development versus conservation and about Hubard Park. Um and uh I didn't uh go to the planning commission because I was on vacation in Florida. Thank you very much. Thanks for all the snow when I got back yesterday and this morning on my car. Um, I uh also uh received feedback from a couple of people concerning a the HOA meeting for the CiderMill development where uh many residents uh expressed great concerns about the emotives. These are the non-pedalable uh you know motorized electric motorized bikes that u young people are riding and uh they're concerned about their speed and their behavior and not stopping for stop signs especially coming off of bike

paths onto Cider Mill and there have been some close calls. So um I think we need to maybe have some discussion either through the other paper or other channels to try and parents to uh help their kids understand what the rules of the road are especially for these vehicles and whether they should be driven on bike paths or on roads and you know what rules they should adhere to. Um because I don't know if the parents know what's going on. I mean when you have four kids going 40 miles an hour doing wheelies up your street um it's a little disconcerting. I mean it's great that they can do that. They're talented to do that. I appreciate it. But it's it's not real safe behavior. So, um, anyway, so that's all I have, Jesse.

Thank you. So, quick, uh, few quick updates from us. Just a reminder to the council and the community that Illuminate Vermont is this weekend. It's our street festival on Market Street. Alana's very excited about it. Um, so it's Friday and Saturday night from 5 to 9 on Market Street. Really encourage folks to come out and visit with their neighbors. Um last this past weekend was our first international food festival. We had 250 tickets sold um sold out and 50 people on the wait list. So great turnout, 16 different local food vendors and huge thanks to um Adam and his team for um coming up with that idea. Um we are into construction season. Uh so just a reminder to council in the community that we um are updating our construction page regularly. So you want to about capital projects going on in the city, you can go to our website resources and then our construction page um and that information is all there. Um specifically um actively in the works right now, we are installing a culvert under Dorset Street just near Park Road um this coming Wednesday. That's to upsize the culverts for when they need to drain the water tanks to make sure that we have the capacity there. Um uh city center boardwalk is under construction and if the weather cooperates hope to have that um completed by Memorial Day weekend. Um we will begin uh construction at Hubard Recreation and Natural Area in midMay. Therefore Parkway um wastewater treatment facilities adding the clarifier. Construction for that is underway and we have restarted the drinking water line replacement on Brewer A or Brewer Parkway, I'm sorry. Um off Shelurn Road. Um and we were able to install the new construct the new connection to that water line under Route 7 after hours last week. So minimize it back on traffic. So huge thanks to our capital projects team who is doing a lot of work at the moment.

Thanks.

Thank you Jesse. Moving on to item six which is the consent agenda. Uh we have several items. 6A which is consider and sign the dispersements. 6B award the FY27 annual paving program contract to SD Ireland brothers and authorize the deputy director of operations to execute the contract. Yes, there are some primary roads in there that are in bad shape that will be paved including Swift and Dorset and Spear. Um 6C approve resolution number two 2026-7 setting the fees for public use of city electric vehicle charging stations and 6D which is approve an agreement with the Burlington Interstate Center LLC to make improvements allowing the issuance of a zoning permit and move forward the East West Alternative Transportation Crossing project and authorize the city manager to negotiate, execute, and amend an agreement in substantially the same form as attached. Can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

Just um on 6C, Jesse. So, were we able to confirm in fact we could um um were able to not charge at night for the um folks at le because I see the resolution was to not charge between 800 p.m. and 8 a.m. So, we've confirmed that that's something I know wasn't sure. right when right at night we've so we're able to do that. So that's great. Okay, that's good news. Um and I just want to commend the public as as Tim alluded to to 6B. It's a it's extensive extensive list of roads to be paved. So um I'm certainly looking forward to it and uh I commend the public to to to review that and um yeah, it's a good list. Even my employer filled some potholes last week when I wasn't here because I submitted the ticket to get them filled. So, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I.

I.

And it is unanimous. Thanks. We'll move on now to item item seven, which is receive the March 11th, 2026 afteraction reports and associated documents and have a discussion. Jesse Baker, city manager, and Bill Bro, our police chief. Come on down. Good evening. So, I'm going to start this presentation tonight. Um, as the community likely knows, um, we released a trove of information last Thursday. It is linked to the agenda tonight. Um, there is, uh, a memo from me. Um, the afteraction emergency incident report from um, our emergency management director, Steve Lockach. um a review and report from our police chief, Bill Bro, as well as all of the body warn camera footage and past documentation um that we put out. So, I want to um start this conversation by um just again saying how um the actions of ICE on March 11th put so many in our community in harm's way. um not only uh the residents of 337 Dorset Street, the traveling public including students and families getting to school, um the protesters and protectors on site, the public safety professionals and the surrounding communities. ice pitted local and Vermont law enforcement um between the agents and the community that we are tasked to serve every day and and did significant harm to the community eroding the public trust that we work so hard to hold every day with our neighbors. Um the documents that are attached to this agenda are the result of uh really extensive review. The first step of that as we do with all emergency events um is to do a comprehensive review of our actions according to our policy. So that started the morning

after March 11th. We then went through the chief's team went through all of the uh data associated with the the day. We had a series of afteraction review meetings and discussions. Um and what results is the product that the community sees on linked to this agenda. Um, in the interest of trying to improve a shared understanding of what happened on March 11th, we wanted to be as transparent as possible and put this these documents forward to the community as well as all of the body worn camera footage. Um, we know it's a lot. We know it's really hard to watch. Um, so given that, I want to spend a little intentional time this evening talking about the key findings that we as your city professional staff found in that review as well as what we learned from that review and what we plan to change moving forward. Um, so the I'm going to this is I'm highlighting points in my memo. So, if folks want to uh follow along or hear more about what I'm talking about, encourage you to look at that uh second linked document on the council agenda. Um so, South Burlington Police and I'm going to primarily talk about the South Burlington Police because that is what is under my sphere of control and under the chief's sphere of control and your sphere of control. So, we were on site on Dorset Street on March 11th for the sole purpose of protecting um our community and the public safety of our community. Um throughout the day, uh the chief and others other agencies worked really diligently to try and convince um ERRO and ICE to stop the execution of any civil and criminal warrants and call off their actions and and remove themselves from our community. um and ICE refused to do this. Um once the US District Court in Vermont, judge in Vermont um approved a

criminal warrant for an individual believed to be inside 337 Dorset Street um and a search warrant for that location. ICE made it very clear that they were going to execute that warrant by using any means necessary. And as a result of that, Chief Row made the decision to place local and state law enforcement officers between ICE and our neighbors on scene for the sole purpose of ensuring the safety of the community in the hopes of limiting physical harm. The South Burlington Police had no lawful authority to stop or prevent ICE from carrying out the enforcement activities or serving the warrant. The detentions that were made were pursuant to the criminal warrant and not the civil warrant. and the courts would go be the place to go to argue if ICE further violated the criminal warrant. Um during the execution of the warrant, uh their crowd physically interfered with the execution of that warrant, violating several state sections of local law and adding to the violence on the scene. Through our review of the body camera footage, there are no incidents both on our camera footage that we reviewed as well as the of our agency our agency partners where South Burlington police officers use excessive force. We've also received no direct uh complaints through our system of other photographic evidence or direct complaints of that um from the community. The South Burlington Police Department does have an affirmative duty to intervene um when witnessing another officer use excessive force. I think the review of the body war and camera footage confirm that throughout the day. Our South Burlington police officers put themselves physically between our federal law enforcement partners and members of the community in order to deescalate incidents where uh tensions were very high.

Um upon our review, we also found that no uh there was no violation of compliant of um our statemandated fair and impartial policing policy. Um and we found that throughout the course of the day there was a wide variety of our neighbors on scene, meaning that there were lots of folks on scene who were very um actively peacefully protesting. There were members who identified themselves as um as uh protectors and some who described themselves as future vigilantes. That placed our officers in a really tricky position of lowering uh the violence and the tension in the room or in on the street. Um, while we certainly value Vermonters's rights to peacefully protest, we have for generations, uh, we can't stand by and watch anyone be violent against another member of our community. Um, so we've identified a series of next steps through our afteraction um, afteraction conversations. Um uh a note to the council. Um you know, I think that as we go through the next weeks and months to come, we will bring you um some recommendations about how to prioritize these next steps and the financial resources we will need to implement them. So this is certainly not the first conversation we will have about those improvements. And I think I want to make it very clear that um these recommendations follow a review of all of the available data and are not calling into question the performance of our South Burlington Police Department, but rather improvements that we can make in our policies and our resources um citywide. So those next steps really focus on um improving our team's knowledge of incident command systems through training and policies, improving

the technology that we have to use in our emergency operations center. Um as well as the policies for activating that EOC. Um and then operational steps that the chief will use in the future if and when we need to respond to such an incident. Um, and we're happy to answer any questions you have about any of these items as we go through this conversation. Um, again, I want to reiterate that we posted more than 60 hours of body warn camera video. Those images are incredibly hard to watch. Um the police chief did have operational control throughout the entire event and has the unique charge to run the operational tactics during verya during this very chaotic event and other chaotic events that our team faces every day. your oversight of him is through me as your employee. And we encourage you in this dialogue um and in the questions that in the conversation we'll have over the next um hour or so um to ask us the questions that you are hearing from the community so we can develop that shared understanding. But also remember um that the words we use matter. the comm the how the community perceives those words matter and how our officers who we are hoping to ret retain and recruit in the future um those words matter to them as well. So with that I will turn it over to Chief Bro.

Thank you. Uh good evening Bill Bro, your police chief. Uh thank you for this opportunity to discuss the afteraction report. I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have but before I do that I wanted to reiterate why decisions were made on March 11th. Our review has been an opportunity to learn and has highlighted areas of improvement and we have already begun improving operations. As the person making command decisions on March 11th, I want to reiterate to the council that every decision I made, which were thought through with debate and input through a unified command structure that involved command representatives from both Vermont State Police and the Burlington Police as well as others, was in what I believe was in the best interest of public safety while also upholding state law and self Burlington Police Department policy. I believe that the facts outlined in the report and I want to reiterate facts based on a host of actual recordings not on ideology, political belief or public opinion confirm that. I believe that as a police leader is imperative to provide the community with a transparent and thorough review of what occurred. I respect and agree with the need to ensure that actions of local and state law enforcement were proper. However, it's important to understand that as this event clearly highlights, maintaining public safety while ensuring compliance with federal law, state law, and department policy is not always black and white, nor is it often easy to watch. It is also important to understand that police must respond to behavior in the moment and not what has become known after the fact. Although I fully respect people's right to disagree with their government, violence in the street can never be the answer. The fight that fight should occur in Congress or in a courtroom. As I stated in the report, as police chief, I cannot, do not, and will not condone violence, intentional violations of a law, or harm inflicted on others based upon ideology or political belief. I remain extremely proud of the level of professionalism displayed by each and every member of the Cell Burlington Police Department in what was truly a no-win situation. With that, I would be

happy to answer any questions any of you might have. wants to go first. Any questions? Did you have some?

Yeah, you honestly most of the questions have been answered. Thank Thank you for the incredibly thorough report and it's I I I had a lot of questions. Had a conversation with Jesse and I, you know, I think the report really does um a fabulous job of of detailing everything and answering Um most things that that we want, you know, most things that maybe were unclear. Um maybe just um big picture question, having done all this and knowing what our next steps are and um having reviewed all the actions in hindsight, would you have done anything different that day?

No, I I think we responded with what we knew at the time, right? And I again it's important to understand what we knew at the time. I think you know one of the things that and and trust me nobody's probably critiqued this more than me. Um what I think we underestimated um both the for lack of a better term incompetence of ICE and their uh inability to to take a step back and and truly uh their lack of leadership in my opinion that was displayed by ICE on scene and that nobody was willing to take a step back and truly think about what they had in front of them and why they were about to take the actions they took and the implications on public safety that had. I underestimated that ever being as extreme as it was. I also underestimated uh that the people in the crowd would would go to the extremes that they went to to to interfere. Uh you know, a simple thing that sounds naive, but all day long people were chanting ice out. Uh and it never dawned on me that they would then surround ICE vehicles and not let ICE vehicles leave the right. I mean, it's just common sense to me. So I think there was and the we underestimated how long uh the event was going to go on. Um so there were a lot of things in in hindsight um we could have done a much better job. We weren't prepared for it to go on as long as it did uh when we lost daylight that completely changed the kind of the tenor of the crowd as well. Things like that weren't taken into consideration early uh in in the day. I if I could do it uh again, I quickly bring on more staff um to to make sure that we were more prepared to deal with the with what we saw. U and and you know, my concern I think was highlighted unfortunately at the end of the night when ICE the ICW SWAT team just to save a vehicle went back and deployed flashbangs and fired

pepper balls at people um to to save a vehicle which they later abandoned on on 89. So, um, that was our concern. Um, and I underestimated, I guess, the response from both the both ICE and, uh, the community and and how the extremes that either either the ICE or the the community was going to go to.

Thank you. I do have actually two two particular questions also. um curious when when we learned that um folks were detained that were not named in the warrant. And the the reason I asked that is because there's been a lot of you know from some members of the community a notion that we we should have intervened when when we knew that. Can you just pro I know the report addresses this to some extent but just provide some more color about when we learned that and and and then what our rights, obligations, duties, powers were given that. So I guess I I'll start by the second half of your question which was you know the legal authority. So federal agents uh have the right just like local police a officers do to develop probable cause and make warrantless arrest for crimes that occur in their presence. Right? So, uh, for that to happen, the the if it's a local, uh, issue, the police officer or if it's a federal issue, the the federal agent has to be where they are legally, uh, and has to be, uh, able to develop probable cause that the crime, whatever they're investigating, the crime uh, is probable cause to believe the crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed. So for simple terms, if a police officer went to a convenience store in the middle of the night, front door was smashed out and the alarm went off and now the police officer is there investigating the alarm. He or she is there legally. The front door is smashed out uh and inside there's a person loading their pockets, you know, at the register, breaking prying the register open and loading their pockets with the cash from the cash register. That police officer doesn't have a warrant to arrest that person for burglary, but has probable cause that all the elements of a burglary, breaking and entering to commit a crime within the establishment that they broke into has occurred. Right? We don't need a warrant. We don't need to stop and call a judge for a warrant. We can make an onsite arrest

because we've developed probable cause. Federal agents had the same authority. So, federal agents were at the location lawfully. They were inside the residence lawfully under the authorized search and arrest warrant. They were in there when they uh came across three other individuals that were not named in their warrant. They have the and I'm not debating whether or not they had enough probable cause, but they felt they had enough probable cause to make on-site arrest of those individuals. which they did. I we knew other people were in the home earlier in the day. Uh we knew there was at least one woman in the house because we had interactions um through others about a child in the home and at one point earlier in the morning they were going to provide uh transfer custody of the child to somebody outside the home and at one point a woman inside the home changed her mind and then later uh did that. So we knew there was one at least one woman in the house. At one point there was a child in the home that later was taken out of the home and I had told us they watched two adult males run into the home. So we knew there were other people in the home all day long. Who was their suspect? Uh whether or not their the suspect they were looking for was in the home or not, we did not know until uh ICE had brought out three individuals. It was at that point that the ICE supervisor uh that was in our emergency operations center told us that the individual they were looking for was not one of the three. Um they developed probable cause due process uh it in my opinion uh worked exactly as it should in this case. Those people were brought before a judge and a judge decides whether or not the probable cause was sufficient to detain people or not. That's the same way it works in the state. We arrest people without a warrant. We take them um we do a

probable cause affidavit which ends up going to the state's attorney's office and ultimately a judge decides if if we have enough probable cause or not. We have no authority to nor could we u I don't know what I don't know the elements of a federal offense. I don't know what probable cause they developed. Uh and quite frankly I don't have the authority to stop them at that time anyway. Appreciate that. That answers that question. I appreciate that. Um, one last thing and, uh, this is not to be critical, it's just it's a question. Um, you know, folks have raised that the the road opened before the road was clear.

And I'm wondering whether in hindsight, um, you would, uh, you know, have done that differently, have kept the road open longer to ensure folks were were safe before before it reopened.

Certainly, the the the the decision to open the road um, And I think what you're referring to is the the chaotic nature in which u about the same time that ICE was the lack of information that we had from our ICE representative about the ICE vehicle that was still stuck on the scene and being surrounded by people. Initially we were told in the command post that that that all of the ICE vehicles had left the area uh that they had safely been removed from the area. That is when myself and others other command staff members gave the orders to our respectful a respective agencies to to remove themselves from the area. We believed I believed that our presence was only going to continue to agitate an already very agitated crowd. When ICE but in when I thought ICE was out of the area, I gave the decision for us to pull our people out of the out of the road out of that area alto together. um and open the road. Uh my thought was get if if ICE is gone, let's get any local law enforcement, there's no need for us to be there and get the road open uh sooner than later to ensure let's get the area back to a sense of normaly. It would also help to kind of there's no reason for people to just mill about if they can't stand in the middle of the street. Um what quickly transpired over about a five or six minute period was the the fact that there was still an ICE vehicle on site that vehicle was being surrounded. Uh that's when we have a lot of back and forth with ICE and ultimately have to call uh Boston to get permission at even though we told them repeatedly to abandon the vehicle uh to get the ICE agent out of there safely. Um, and I had actually called for a tow truck that the ICE agent refused to to leave the scene. That required officers and that's when the ICE uh SWAT team went and deployed flashbangs. That

resulted in state police and local officers going back to the scene. Um, and once that vehicle was safely out, then the crowd turned on a few troopers that were trying to leave the area. Um, so that's why there's a back and forth as to when the road was open, when it wasn't. Once the road once it was confirmed that the the final troopers uh were able to safely get out of the area, the decision to open the road uh was made again. Uh and that's I think seven or eight minutes later, the road is finally opened to traffic. And that was after um and some of this is through telephone calls. That was after uh we felt confident um that the the and it had people had walked the road. There was nobody laying in the road. There was nobody injured in the roadway that we were confident of confident of. Uh we also had um uh fishing game and um highway enforcement motor vehicle enforcement officers stationed at both ends to assist um law enforcement vehicles, ICE and other law enforcement vehicles away from the area because we didn't want them um getting stuck at a red light only to have the crowd then circle around ICE vehicles at the next red light. So, we had those pre-planned uh those they were positioned to to help regardless of which way uh they were to leave the area. So, there was it wasn't just hey, let's open the road because, you know, we we trying to uh get anybody injured or it was there was a lot of miscommunication or a lot uh a lot of things happening. Part of that truly was because we were not getting good information back from the ICE supervisor in the room with us. Okay. Thank you, Chief.

Other questions or comments? Um, if I could ask a couple questions. Thank you, Chief, for the thorough report. Um, I sent a couple of questions over. I can take many of those offline at some point. Um, they're more umformational and educational to me personally. Um, I did have a question about once the criminal warrant was issued, there's reference made to a dispersal order. Can you describe if that's actually a legal action and how that gets communicated to those who

So, a dispersal order is anytime there's a crowd that's that's gathering and usually in a roadway um to to help meet one of the elements of the offense should anybody be charged with being in the roadway or whatever the case might be. uh making sure they like any crime, making sure they understood what they were doing is is wrong and giving them a lawful order, right? It's the same as if if you're in the middle of Market Street and you're yelling and being disorderly, a police officer is not going to just go and arrest you. He or she will probably tell you, "Hey, quiet down. You're being disorderly. If you continue, you will be arrested." It's the same premise. Uh in this case um as part of our um emergency operations center we had several conversations with the United States Attorney's Office. The US Attorney's Office uh with the assistance of HSI Homeland Security Investigations drafted the uh dispersal order. We wanted to make sure that our concern was and there was conversations with the US attorney's office as well about anybody that should interfere with uh with the execution of the warrant should actively and physically assault uh an agent or a police officer uh how that those charges could potentially be prosecuted. The US attorney's office stated they would review any of those such charges for potential prosecution. Um, and because of that, we felt, and this was an ICE operation, not a local operation, that the dispersal order should come uh through the US attorney's office. So, they drafted the language, uh, an agent, uh, with a loudspeaker in their vehicle, pulled up in front of the the home and said it three or four times. We were in the emergency operations center live streaming uh, body camera footage. Uh, we heard it very clearly. In fact, after the agent left, uh there's people in the crowd. There's at least one gentleman in the crowd with a megaphone who then

essentially repeats to the crowd what was said. Um says a few other things, but essentially repeats. So, it was clear to me that that dispersal order was was understood and then and even relayed through the crowd amongst people in the crowd. Thank you. Another quick question is, you know, the the incident precipitated around the schools and I had a question about what is or is there what would be the communication process or notification process of nearby homes, businesses, other community members or organizations who might be affected by an event of this scale? How how sure how do you get that message out?

Right. Um it it really depends on the situation, right? Um, first, so in this in this particular case, I had a conversation with the superintendent early on before I ever at as a result of the crash. We then assigned police officers directly to the school to relay information and I know uh Sergeant Greg Short who oversees our community services unit which is part of our school resource officer program. Uh he was having contact with both of the principles almost hourly even when there was no update to give them just to uh ensure that we were all on the same page. We had conversations with the school about uh kids that walk and not letting them walk uh toward towards the direction of 337 that we had police officers there to ensure that that didn't happen. Um we also had conversations in the emergency operations center about other um kind of high liability areas, places like daycare centers, any other place that we would have concern uh uh for the the people that were there. Um but to answer your question more generally, it really depends on the situation, right? like a a person actively u discharging a weapon um or or a bomb threat, right? Depends on the size. So, we deal with uh public safety immediate public safety concerns first and foremost. U then we would we'd make in-person notifications if it was a place that we e ether needed to shelter in place or evacuate. Um then we do things uh like press notifications. We put things out on the all the city uh pages, all the city social media platforms. We had in this case, we had the city uh public information officer with us in the in the command post. Um but we don't notify people just for the sake of notification either, right? Our focus is on the incident at hand. Um, so there is that balance of trying to get the word out as as safely as we can, but

prioritizing actual public safety threats or or implications first. Um, I think I think in this case we we did that. Our biggest concern was the school. Uh, and I thought I think we we had really good communication uh with the school.

Um, and just one one last comment. Um, I had met with Jesse last week before all the reports were issued and the and the body cam footage and so forth. And um, as you indicated, Jesse, um, that was very difficult to watch. And I made a point of getting through as much of it as I possibly could before the meeting tonight. Um, and you know, without discounting the impact to the many community members and pre peaceful protesters who were in attendance and and suffered harm there, I have to say I could not be more proud of your leadership, Chief, of Deputy Chief Brisco's operations and performance and of all the officers who were in attendance at that that event. So, thank you.

Thank you. Did you want to go too? No, go ahead.

Okay. Um, I actually don't have any questions. I thought the report um was extremely thorough. I thought that the um you know the all the links to the to the to the video footage were much appreciated. There was a lot of footage to go through. Um and I I agree with um everything that was said. I I um incredibly impressed with the professionalism and the how well uh your your police force conducted themselves in this what you termed um no win situation. It was definitely an impossible situation. Um so I don't have any I don't have any questions because I think that all my questions have been answered. Um if I had any questions they would be just minor details. Um, and I'm looking forward to uh, you know, the the future response strategy that's worked out. And, um, I also want to call out the the public because when I watch that footage, I see that the public was in imposs an impossible situation also. And unfortunately, ICE and and I'm going to say this now because I haven't had the opportunity to say this as a, you know, as an elected representative of the in this community. Um, so I'm going to use this opportunity. Um, I think the public was in the impossible situation of trying to prevent this organization which now has demonstrated on numerous occasions that it can break the law with impunity. Um, it can engage in acts of just incompetence, cruelty, um, illegal activities, humanitarian violations. Um, I mean, I think the public was responding with a sense of panic that what was going on at that house uh,

potentially could have led to innocent people being dragged off to detention facilities, which now have been described by numerous scholars as concentration camps. Um, and this is not hyperbole. This is what's going on. So, I think it was an impossible situation. And I think that um it it's important to note that the people in the crowd were reacting to a real uh a real crisis and there was no playbook for this for any of us, not for the police force, not for the public. and it just turned into uh a chaotic situation where we ended up turning on each other even though the police were clearly there in my opinion to protect the public. Um it was I don't know exactly the reasons but it was presumed that they might be uh sympathizing which I with ICE which clearly in retrospect they were not in my opinion. That's my opinion. Um, so I hope that going forward we can we can look at what happened from each other's perspective and try to understand why people behaved the way they did. I certainly personally I certainly understand why the people in that crowd were as upset and panicked as they were about what could have happened to those folks. Um, thankfully they were in Vermont, so they did not get dragged off to a detention facility in in, you know, Mississippi or God knows where. Um, and thankfully to our police force, I believe, uh, you know, I I'm extremely grateful that there were no there were no deaths. Uh, no one got killed, no one got very seriously injured, although one woman um did experience um some some injuries. some folks did get injured. But um and I also want to reiterate the the the expression of of um you know adhering to

this mantra that we have to remain peaceful and I understand that some folks were in a position where they felt like they were defending themselves and they had to push back. Um nonetheless I I hope that we can we can be peaceful if this happens again. um and try to understand the pos the perspective of the police who are here to serve us and protect us and also um you know acknowledge the fact that we are in an impossible situation now. Um so anyway that's that's what I have to say about it. Thank you.

Thank you Beth. Um, so I I'm thankful that we have a police force and a city manager and a police chief that um understood that they had to go through this really deep introspective review of all the actions that occurred on March 11th by by our forces uh by examining body cam footage and uh and just making a chronological timeline uh and and then you know questioning each of the decision along the way. Um, a good police force does this self-examination often for incidents like this to learn what they can for the next time it happens. And and I honestly hope this doesn't happen again. Um, this is a really unique situation, but it's been experienced in other parts of the country, right? Especially in Minneapolis. Um, uh, you totally underscored the situation by saying that you underestimated ISIS leadership and their competence, right? And that sort of like sums up the whole situation for me. Um, and there's no other way to explain it other than that. And and our department was put in a very precarious situation with some very passionate protesters and protesters and all the other people that were there who had um differing reasons for how they wanted to behave. Um, and so the number one, you know, objective there was to keep the public safe. And as you said, nobody was shot. You know, nobody was killed. There were some minor injuries, but you can't escape that with the type of activities that were going on there. Um, so I'm I'm pleased with this review. Um, I just have a couple of simple questions. Uh, you complain about the batteries running out of power. I'm just curious is did the live streaming did that drain the batteries faster?

Yeah. Uh two two of the batteries that that the body cameras that ended up dying were people that we were live streaming that does drain the batteries faster. We kind of were unaware of that. Uh it was the first time that as a department we we used that feature um for for any significant reason for extended period of time. We have already uh resolved the issue of batteries for um and we're working on uh buying what we need to make sure that does that doesn't happen again. Um and it's a pretty simple fix. I don't want to get too much into details and give away uh secrets that can but uh I I'm confident that that that specific issue won't happen again. Are you are you confident that Burlington and the Broad State Police have conducted an equal self-examination and that they will be making some changes of their own?

Uh I have talked to both the well the Vermont State Police has uh conducted a a review and I believe you've been provided that that that was released to the public as well as all of their body cam footage uh last Friday. I have talked with the colonel uh several times about this uh about and there are things that that that state police will have learned and will certainly make changes on. I have also spoken with Chief Burke over in Burlington. Uh and although they have not released a review, their their process is as you know a little little different. uh they're in the process of doing that. Um and and I'm I'm certain um based on my conversations with Chief Burke and my interactions with him over the last six months that uh he he is a professional uh police chief and he will absolutely uh learn from this situation and make sure that they take the appropriate steps to to be better.

Great. I I'm really appreciative of these sections of the report that that um identify areas for improvement, distinct training needs, policy needs, and recommendations for f changes for future incidents. So, um I'm going to say that I think um as as as unfortunate as an event that happened on March 11th, there was a lot of learning that occurred because this thing could happen again. And if it does happen again, I it's great to be prepared for what happens next. And I have no idea whether ISIS is going to do this kind of thing again or not, but we have to assume that they will because that's they're in charge of what they're doing. Um, any other comments or questions we have?

I actually do have one more question. In the in the um in the efforts to come up with um I want to say an improved response having not been able to predict what was going to happen that day, I don't know that um I I don't know that it could have come out any better than it did. Um but in the in the efforts to come up with a new response strategy, how do we bring the public into that? Is there a mechanism for bringing in public input as we go through that process just to make sure that there's an understanding from the public about how they're going to behave and a discussion with the police on what they can expect if they behave in such a manner. Do you know what I'm getting at? I know that's a tricky a really tricky question, but if you know people in the public are planning on engaging in civil disobedience, it would be helpful for them to understand well, okay, you can do that and this is how we might respond. Um, so that's that's my question. Thanks.

I I don't know if there's a specific way for the public to do that. I mean, you know, we as police chief, it would be unethical or immoral of me or just plain wrong in violation of everything I stand for to to authorize or let people violate the law for any reason, right? Uh particularly when it when it's violence involved. Uh I completely understand what people's desire, like I said, to to protest the the the government, right? That's that's their first amendment rights. uh and and I I believe as a healthy society we need to do that but you can do that peacefully. Uh so the I guess the playbook for that is laws that are already established and that have been passed right there's laws that prevent people from assaulting other people. We the playbook that we that we follow is are the statutes that are on that are already on the books and that that is what we will continue to follow. So I think people have a an absolute in uh you know what the police response is going to be by who they elect and what laws are passed. Um uh and that's the process that is established uh in in Vermont and throughout the country. Uh you you might not always agree with the law. Um you might not always agree with the police, but everything we do is in the interest of public safety while upholding the statutes of this state of Vermont and our police our internal police department policies. So, I I I don't want to sound like I'm not answering the question, but that truly is is my philosophy and where where I fall on it. We can't say because of a certain political ideology. Well, if you're protesting for this reason, then it's okay. If you're protesting for this reason, then it's not okay. Um the police have to remain neutral. Um, and the only way we can do that is to enforce the laws that are passed through through through the process that's already established through our state legislation.

Can can I add to that? Agree with everything the chief says. I also think um I think because this was such a chaotic and emergent event and we see emergent events all the time in the city of much less um angst than this one but still emergent events. Um I think what Chief Bro and Chief Burke before him both led on was you build those relationships and develop that expertise not during the chaotic event and or not around the chaotic event. So I think that all the things that chief is doing now to build up the community services unit and build relationships with community leaders and residents and go to Illuminate Vermont and go to SB Night Out and be seen and be known in the uniform, the badge, be known in the community as approachable. I think those relationships, you know, repairing the harm of th of what happened on March 11th and rebuilding those relationships are what, you know, we did see some of evidence of this in the body camera where residents were more open to interacting with Burlington or South Burlington police officers because they knew them or knew the badge or had seen them at events. And continuing to build the trust that way, I think, is almost more powerful than giving them an after actions be like, "What do you think about this?" Um, because we don't know what the next event's going to be like. And that political capital and that trust on the ground is what will let in those moments, those conversations occur most efficiently.

So, question um should we um talk a little bit about our next step with with my Justice or or hear from the public first or Let's let's hear from the public. We have two hands up. Anybody in the audience? I just want to talk. Okay. So, um why don't you two come down first in the back, please? And I'm going to give you two minutes because we, you know, got an agenda tonight. And and please uh follow the directions on the little dashboard there and and identify yourself as well. Do I press?

Uh, my name is Ray. Um, and I'm a South Burlington resident. On March 11th on Dorset Street, federal agents went into the wrong house, the wrong vehicle, and the wrong people. Went for the wrong people. The operation still went forward and people who were not int the intended target were still taken. Local police on the scene were there the entire time. The chief has said that they was there was nothing they could have done. That framing has been used to close discussion but has not been matched with the neutrality that is supposed to be meant to be in practice because neutrality is not just being physically present. Neutrality is simply is not simply observing an oper operation while it unfolds. While local police are on scene, engaged and functioning as part of the operation environment, they are not outside of it. They are a part of how it plays out. And what happened here is the line between federal action and local non-responsibility has been drawn in a way that removes accountability for outcomes that directly affect people in this community. ICE came for one person and three additional people were taken who were not the target. This is not a minor administrative mistake. This is a serious breakdown with real consequences for real people. and what had followed in the public explanation is a consistent pattern, strong defense of procedure, strong emphasis on limitation and strong validation of institutional conduct. While the impact on the community is treated as secondary dis distant or resolved simply because it's now being reviewed, that imbalance is not neutral either. It reflects whose experience is being centered. And when public concern about incident is met with dismissal and minimalization of the official settings, it reinforces a clear message about whose voice carries weight. The fair and impartial policing policy is supposed to apply to outcomes and not just intent. If that if if it does not account for how harm occurs in practice or how community impact is weighed alongside instit institutional action, then it is not functioning as intended. Right now is being centered is intentional in justification. What is

not being centered is the community that lived through these consequences and still are. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next, come on up. Are these going to be new comments that were not related to what you said earlier today? Yes. Yes. Specifically related to this agenda. Please identify yourself again.

Yeah. Drew Shepser, South Burlington. Um, yeah, I uh I want to share my initial thoughts. I I have not had a chance to review all of the footage that was released or the documents that are attached to this agenda tonight. Uh but because there's some uncertainty around what this community task force is going to look like, I'm not sure if I'll even have an opportunity to provide any feedback in the future. So just figured I'd take advantage of this this time now to share my initial thoughts based on just the first few hours of what I've seen so far. Um I do want to say I'm again very proud to be a South Burlington resident. I um witnessed on multiple occasions interactions with our that our local police had with community members and fellow law enforcement that did show just a level of professionalism that I think is like cream of the crop, you know, top level. Um again, this is all stuff that happened earlier in the day. Uh, and I yeah, I think it's it's it's almost laughable seeing our police officers interact in the same shot with some of these federal agents um who are just, you know, clowns, like completely unprofessional. Um, very reactive, very um anyway, it reminded me of earlier in my career. I used to do a aquatic herbicide application and and the company I worked for took professionality very seriously. They had like very precise technology uh that they can dose very high concentrated chemicals into large bodies of water and they said, you know, like this makes the other guys look like a bunch of hillbillies and airboats just dumping chemicals over the side, right? And so anyway, that was just kind of what popped into my mind when I watched this is like our guys are really like demonstrating that that professionality well. So, I just I just wanted to say

that it it makes me feel happy to know that um even with Chief Burke leaving last year that we're still we we have good leadership. Um, I will say in the area of leadership, what I did notice the the most critical feedback I have is around um, Deputy Chief Brisco's um, behavior that day and just again what I saw in the first few hours of the day. Um, I work now and you know I I also uphold statute. I work in comp and enforcement. I'm not trying to compare my work with what our local law enforcement do. Um, you know, I often know what I'm walking into, but I I have had deescalation trainings. I've had a lot of, you know, EPA trainings on how to interact with um permites and I respond to a lot of complaints where it's, you know, usually like one neighbor saying another neighbor did something. There could be hot heads. I often have to give bad news, you know. Um, so just there was things that came up that I thought in the training that I've had, I would have been trained to act differently or carry myself differently than what I saw in deputy chief Brisco. So to just summarize by saying I don't know if maybe that was the best role for him that day. And again, hindsight's 2020. I'm not saying, you know, that he needs to be, you know, be fired or anything, but if or when this kind of thing happens again, I I think I just from what I saw so far, there were maybe other people in our police force that maybe would have conducted themselves more professionally in that leadership role than than he did. So, I would ask you all to consider that in the future of who's going to be that point person in the field.

Let's wrap it up because we're over three minutes now. I'm I'm just getting started and and we have a pretty empty We've got three people online with their hands up and we have a very long but you guys have made it clear that you're not going to allow the community to participate openly in this community task force discussion and I'd like to get this feedback out to Chief Bro because you're doing that now. Yeah. So, so I I sum up

give me a few more minutes please. Um that just you know took another 30 seconds but uh so anyway some of this behavior was disparaging remarks against protesters by um deputy chief. It wasn't clear that he was talking about our specific community members that day but he was definitely painting protesters from his past experience in a bad light both with our community members and with fellow law enforcement. I thought that was completely unprofessional. Um he he selectively would share information. There were people in identifying vests there also charged with community safety trying to to um do the best work they could. And

do do you want to put all these comments in in a in an email to us instead? Uh I I'll be quick. So but he would he would quickly uh or he would dismiss those people and say I'm just waiting. I know what you guys know. I don't have any information to share. and a second later he would talk to a fellow law enforcement officer and give much different information. So that selective sharing of information was not okay. Um

but the the the pinnacle here was just that he said multiple times throughout the day that he basically rather be somewhere else. Uh this is my retirement job. I I shouldn't have to deal with this is the vibe I got from that. And that is not the person I think that should be running the show on the street when things like this are happening. And I and I apologize. He had a hard day that day or you know I can sympathize that he had a hard day but that is not the professionality that I expect from our our our people.

So D I just want to inter interject to say I'm the one who's accountable for staff action in the city not the council. They're accountable for policy maker making. So if you would like to ever talk to me about the specific um behavior or professionalism of anybody on my staff I'm well I'm happy to meet with you and have that conversation. um maligning them in public I'm not sure is going to serve that purpose in the same way.

All right. Then I'll just wrap that up with my feedback about him. I just want to address what what councelor Zigman said about um the impossible situation that we're in. Um you know I understand you know the chief's remarks about not wanting to um uh uh talk about like ideology but the confines of the law like what we what what they are legally allowed to do. Just I know this has been brought up before. Slavery was once legal. Terrible things happened under the the the frame of of of you know within the law. The Holocaust was largely carried out through legal framework at the time. Um so many of us like to ask ourselves like what we would have done if we were in those situations if we could have helped someone if we could have been in the Underground Railroad or you know prevented people from going to concentration camps. Um and we're we're really at that time now where we don't have to imagine it anymore. we we can do differently even if the law tells us like that oh no they're they have the authority to do that and and and I've spoken before about how we need to let this shake out in the courts afterwards but that is again echoing uh councelor Ziggman like coming from a place of privilege because yeah for me if if if if a law enforcement officer is violating my rights and I go to jail or whatever it's it's a it's an inconvenience for me but for a lot of these vulnerable people they could end up in a place they've never been to before have no idea where they are like deported to a country they never been. They could be dead, raped, worse in in these these these concentration camps. So, we need to start thinking about working outside of that narrow framework of the law.

Thank you, Drew. We're going to go to two people on the line. Three people right now. So, Sherry, can you hear us?

Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. And I'm going to start you with two minutes. Okay,

turning off my um speaker. So, I um want to know if any of you opened an email this weekend that you got that said evidence of police collusion or evidence of collusion with ICE and police um uh violence. I know you got that email because I sent it to you. There are many community members that worked very very hard and watched hundreds of hours of footage that documented pretty much all of the collusion and uh violence from um South Burlington, Burlington, and state police. So, I'm sorry that you didn't watch the 60 hours of footage that was released. We haven't either, but we have watched hundreds of hours. And I'm wondering if any of you have even opened that and saw the um slideshow that was a part of that. Um I'm also wondering why you are saying that you there was no violence when there's clear footage of violence.

Sherry, where are you from please?

No answer. Okay, I will continue because I feel like this has not been handled very well and I am sorry that you feel that this should be brushed under the rug and this is should never be brushed under the rug. This is not okay the way that this has been handled in any way. I encourage you to watch that slideshow and to see if you still feel that there was no violence that um the South Burlington police instilled on the community members when they did nothing to um take care of that family. They just colluded with ICE and and gave them their VIP treatment. So, I encourage you to really look outside of just what h the body cam footage because that's pretty much what they want you to see and not really what happened. Thank you for your time and I hope you'll watch that slideshow.

Thank you, Sherry. Who's next? Uh, Leaf. Leaf. Hi, Leaf. Where are you from? I'm I'm from Burlington. Okay, Burlington. Go ahead, please.

Hi. Um I'm Leaf. I am a professional deescalation and nonviolence trainer. I also worked on the slideshow that Sher mentioned um with several others. We've gone through uh cumulatively over a thousand hours of video footage. This was before we had access to the body cam footage. So, we're just starting to comb that now. Uh through this work uh we found a lot of evidence of uh South Burlington Police collaboration with ICE, failure to intervene in instances of excessive force, uh assisting ICE in use of excessive force, many clear violations of the veron impartial policing policy. Um and I know you mentioned that you haven't received many complaints. Well, get ready because now people have access to a lot more footage. So, um I wouldn't say that the, you know, lack of campaign, uh complaints so far really means anything other than that people are still trying to figure out what's going on. Um so, I really would love to show more than we can in 2 minutes uh of this evidence to you all. So, if any of you would like to look through it with us, let me know. Um I also wanted to say that this idea that no one was shot cannot be the standard for something going well. That is ludicrous. Um, I in the footage I watched have seen multiple instances of ICE agents with their hands on firearms or pointing other weaponry at civilians with no local police in sight. So, the idea that local police are the reason people didn't die is just laughable. I also wanted to uh mention this idea that, you know, oh, we work it out in the courts afterwards and everything went well, people are home. That was minutes away from not being the case. I also co-run the Vermont ICE detaining tracker where we keep track of all the ICE detaininees in Vermont prisons. And I woke up the

morning after the 11th to a text that Camila and Yuana had disappeared. They were not in the uh DOC locator anymore. I spent the next probably about 12 hours trying to figure out where they were. What had happened is that ICE removed them from the local prison, drove them across the border to New H I'm sure drove them to Massachusetts. What happened with the South Police and

Right. So, what I'm trying to say though is this idea that, oh, we can just let ICE do whatever we want and the courts will figure it out later is not true because ICE is illegally trafficking people across state lines against court orders. So when the police stand by and say, "Oh, they're federal agents. They can do whatever they want. The courts will work it out." They are specifically moving people out of court jurisdictions so that they can smuggle them out of New England, out of Vermont to concentration camps. So that was minutes away from happening. Um, so I wanted you to know this because we have this idea of like, oh, the courts are, you know, protecting people. Uh, that's because, you know, we have people monitoring it, but it's really almost not the case. Um, I wanted to say that it's just a really creative interpretation of law and policy that the police have presented to you all in this document. Um, it's fascinating to me how in certain situations the police are very clearly extending their power further than they can, like taking very clear violations of the Fair and Impartial Policing Act and saying, "Oh, this is fine. This is within our power." And in other situations, they're really underestimating the amount of authority they have and saying, "Oh, we can't, you know, intervene to uphold the laws that we do have authority to uphold." So, I just want you to um take the legal uh briefing that the police have given you with a big grain of salt. Um there's this idea that police can't uh you know, stop federal agents. And I want to quote back what um the police chief said, which was we Okay, I'm almost done. We cannot let people violate the law for any reason, especially when there is violence involved.

So, I just want to know like are ICE people because I did not see the local police inter intervening to stop ICE from violating the law. I did not see them intervene to stop the Vermont state police from violating the statute against chokeolds. Um, so there's a lot of examples that people have of the way things could have gone better that day. Somebody else now because you've gone over four and a half minutes. Okay. But thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. Let's go to Sheamus. Sheamus, can you hear us? Yep. Can you hear me? Yep. Where are you from?

Thanks. My name is Sheamus Abshire. I'm a South Burlington resident and this is my personal opinion. Uh, all the evidence that I've seen shows that South Burlington South Burlington police did their duty. Thank you to all the officers. You have important and difficult jobs. To everybody else, if you have a disagreement with ICE or current immigration policy, you can't solve that by protesting and then complaining about how you got shoved to the ground or disrespected. There's no cosmic judge who's going to rule in your favor. Instead, what's needed is effective political action. Effective means convincing people who don't already agree with you. Staying totally non-violent helps. Speaking out and making political mistakes in public so you can find a voice that is effective with voters, raising money for political campaigns, focusing on winning elections. Again, the goal is to convince people who don't already agree with you. Nobody gets to just impose their personal morality or ethics. That's not democracy. Politics is a game we play because it's an alternative to violence. You have to build consent before you change policy. In other words, play the long game. Focus on winning at the ballot box. And like I teach my daughters, when you see a South Burlington police officer, wave and say hi because they're here to protect our bodies while we use our political voices. Thank you.

Thank you, Sheamus. Uh let's take somebody in the audience now, please. Michael Mitang. I'm a South Burlington resident. Uh on on March the 11th, I was 9,000 miles away from here. I didn't get back until two weeks later. Uh so uh and I've been a bit busy since then. Um so I wanted to ask um chief whether uh there was any violence which um for which there was probable cause for an arrest. So make sure you direct questions to the to the the city manager.

That was a question and the other question was whether the protests could be characterized as passive resistance. That's why I asked the first question. Passive resistance means you know you don't fight with people. Uh you don't argue with the police. You let them do their job and which apparently they've done superbly. Um and if they want to get you out of the way, they can pick you up and carry you away. That's passive resistance. I've done a lot of it in my life. Um I've only been charged with nightsticks once uh and only been arrested once. So, it's a good record. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you, Michael. Ryan Doyle, South Burlington. Um there have been a few big situations in our neighborhood over here um in the past few years including twice having escaped um convicts uh running through our neighborhood um one day uh an officer with a large gun told me to go back inside my house and that was the form of communication that there was a murderer loose in our neighbor neighborhood. Um, a few months ago though, you as a council made a really excellent decision which, um, was to opt into VT alerts, which is a great system. I get messages from VT alerts daily. Um, but I'm not sure I've gotten one from South Burlington yet. Um, and I didn't get one on March 11th. Um, so I think the

question was asked by somebody about like how could communication go into the community better potentially. And when I think about the particularly the impact um on my neighborhood there um how much nicer it is to get an alert on the phone from a trusted emergency communication line um rather than from Facebook or Reddit um or by walking out my front door and seeing guns. So, uh, please, not just in these extreme cases, but I would really ask the city to start, um, utilizing that feature more. Thank you.

Thank you, Brian. We have Lisa Yankowski online. Lisa, do you want to make a comment?

Uh, thank you. Uh this is actually a reply and a comment to back up um Jesse and the chief about uh trying to involve the public in procedures and what to do if something like this happens again. Um I agree with both of them. It's very hard uh if you're trying to involve others uh unfortunately their opinions and their self-importance and other things get involved with how they think. And I'm saying this from experience. Um I appreciate our police force. I appreciate what you guys all do. Uh this is something that's very hard. Um, just so uh, our newest counselor Sigment knows, I live next to Red Rocks Park. I help oversee it for the city. I'm always tangling with residents from other towns who come down here think they can do whatever they want because they think we're part of Burlington. So, that's some of the things that uh any task force or committee would be up against is people thinking they can do whatever they want um whether they live in the town or not. I appreciate I do agree that with our our police department members being at city events, I appreciate that. I love talking with all of them. I've sent them home with cookies and stuff before when I know they've had to go through um not very nice situations down here. Um which did unfortunately involve death and stuff of people going off the cliffs which they're not supposed to do.

Lisa, Lisa, can we kind of stick to what happened on 311? Yep. Um you're you're at two minutes now. It is in regards to that that you know if you do put together a task force and you do want members of the public. It can be very tough and I just wanted to put that input in. Thank you, Lisa. And nobody else in audience wants to make a comment. Nobody else online. Any final comments by the council at all you wanted to talk about? Yeah. So,

so I appreciate that. Uh, will Lambbeck reply to your outreach? Uh, Jesse, and sounds like they're open to participating. Thank you, Chief. Looking forward to talking more. He he'd like um some feedback on us on the parameters of the meeting, the format of the meeting. Um, he wants to make sure we we start with accountability. Um, asked whether the chief would be there. So, I'd love to discuss those questions and see if we can all agree on on some answers to those questions and kind of move forward responding to will magnet justice and hopefully um setting up a discussion with them. So, I'll throw out Beth and I actually chatted a bit and uh I think we we agree that um it'd be helpful to have kind of a neutral person there facilitating moderating discussion so that um magnet justice doesn't feel that um the person in that role is biased. So I be great. I think at least fathers agree to to identify somebody like that. I think that would kind be a first step would maybe make um folks more comfortable about how that how that meeting uh would go if we were able to structure it that way. Um then in terms of like the actual discussions it' be you know people would take turns first speaking in their mind right what would they want to say and then presumably we'd we'd open it up and and have a frank you know question and answer back and forth moderated facilitated so that things stay you know hopefully as calm and you know um civil civil as they can be and and and I don't know take it from Yeah. Um, as Andrew said, we we talked a

little bit about this and I totally agree with that. I think that, um, if we're going to move forward with this, um, it has to be completely balanced. We are not I I don't think that we can be the ones, you know, quote, running the meeting. It has to be an open, fair um discussion where everyone feels heard and um we can try to if not agree with each other on everything because I'm sure that those of us sitting at this desk don't completely agree with each other about all these issues. Um at least we can try to see it from each other's perspective. I would hope that that would be one of the goals and then also um maybe talk about what we do next time if this happens again. You know, I I I in other words, I think it would be helpful to come to an understanding of what we're trying to achieve from um having this type of forum um for discussion um and also pose the question of how do we find uh you know a person with the skills to to facilitate a discussion like this? I don't know how we identify said person and maybe you have some ideas, Jesse. I don't really have a clue. So anyway, and I'm sorry that we I have to I have to say this, too. I'm sorry that we're having this um discussion without Lori Smith because I know that he would want to be part of this. Um yeah, so I regret that he's not here, but uh I'm sure he would also agree that we need to move forward. We can't we can't delay another couple of weeks. So, um, Chief left the table, but I might invite him back down. Um, I think it's interesting to have a warranted council meeting, public forum with one or three um, representatives

from one organization. And I I guess I question what the outcome of that would be. would that really be the kind of community feedback you all are looking for or community repair you all are looking for? Um, we work with community partners all the time and would a conversation like that be better suited not on camera with all due respect to our neighbors but in a place where folks feel more vulnerable to have those open conversations. I think we're that you guys are interested in having. Um, so I guess I would throw out there what is your overall goal of this of this a publicly warned meeting like this and is it the right tool to achieve that goal? I work for you. I will do what you would like, but I I I don't in that correspondence back from migrant justice and I've worked with Will for years as a manager. Um, I didn't hear a whole lot of shared understanding of what happened or what we would want to happen next. Um, and we and I I think the chief and I are both interested in developing that with migrant justice, but I I'm not sure a warned council meeting is the right first step.

Tim, tend to agree with that.

Yeah. Can I make a quick comment? Um, I'm certainly supportive of having a conversation. I know I took a look at the response from um, Will Lambbeck and um, as you said, Jesse, I'm I'm not sure if there's conditions put on initial conversations. I don't think that moves the ball forward. So I do think would propose an alternative where there might be u deleg delegates from city council. But from a facilitation standpoint, I did wonder whether or not um restorative justice would play a role in a facilitated conversation. And I do not think that initial conversation or potentially a series of conversations should be in public to start because I do think um based on you know some of the the um uh conditions that um were referenced I I don't think there's even a start on the same page right now. Um, so I think that opportunity to to establish that if it's possible kind of um a common baseline off of which um there could be some understanding going forward and I think that's better done um with a delegates from council and uh in a um non-public scenario to start.

Dialogue is really the important word here and initiate that is important. Um and so the most expeditious way to do it and to have the parties want to come together is not in a public meeting.

Jesse, do you feel like restorative justice would have the skill sets that we're talking about in terms of facilitation? Um I mean yes I think the restorative justice practitioners generally have a huge wealth of knowledge in facilitating these kinds of conversations. I think a challenge may be that you know we we are in the last months of our CJC and going to another CJC and both of those CJC's are in partnership with police. So, if we were to look at that, I might recommend we look um for a restorative justice practitioner who's outside of our county. Um I think that that is a good suggestion.

So, Tim or Elizabeth is your uh I think this conversation needs to happen. I mean, I think it's long overdue, right? I mean, I'm almost just to reach out to Will and just sit down, have a coffee, right? Um I might well do that. But is is your thought that say uh two of us would be formally nominated to sit down with someone from restorative justice and justice and and have a conversation. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. Along those lines and the chief and the chief

or so you know those who are interested I mean it might have to happen over a couple of conversations. I just I think we have to be respectful of um the chief's time and Jesse's time as well. Um just to throw that out there. I don't I don't know what the best way to do this is. I mean, we're just making this up as we go. Um so, you know, um just just a word about, you know, the fact that this will impact um the chief's ability to do his other jobs, his, you know, his his uh actual day-to-day work. And same for Jesse. Um, so I I don't know. I mean, you know, I I would be happy to defer to others if they're interested in having that conversation. I would be willing to participate. I'm definitely interested in participating. I know Lori is and clearly you are too, Andrew. Haven't um gotten a good sense of whether you, Elizabeth and Tim, would want to be part of it. Um, but that still creates a problem because there are three at least three who would like to um participate. So, any thoughts on that? I'm I'm not I'm at a loss.

Lor's not here. In in terms of next steps, I mean, Beth answer that question. I would certainly be willing to participate as well. Um, I wonder if it would make sense, Jesse, to reach out to Will and just propose that we're looking at two council delegates, potentially the chief and yourself, and looking at a restorative justice facilitator outside of our city, um, as a, uh, venue and just see what the response is to that. I

agree. So, we're thinking two people and the other three can just sort of wait for next steps. We'll we'll figure it out. Okay. Okay. All right. I mean, the highest bidder, right? Good. All right. Well, that was a good discussion, good review, and um I appreciate everybody's input. So, let's move on to item eight. Um, did you want to take a break before this? No, let's end on the next. Let's end on the next note. Okay. Unless somebody really needs break.

Okay. Um item eight is award the contra the construction contract for the east west alternative transportation crossing the south Burlington RA REI a raise one project phase one project to Engineers Construction Incorporated ECI contingent on issuance of a zoning permit for 861 Wilston Road and authorize the city manager to negotiate execute and amend the construction contract consistent with the supporting documents Blanchard community development director. Good evening.

Good evening. Um, thank you, Chair Barrett. Um, for the record, Alana Blanchard, community development director. Uh, so I am very excited to bring to you tonight um a uh recommendation to award a contract to Engineer Construction for the um construction of phase one of the walk bridge over I 89 at exit 14. Um this phase of the project is the bridge. It also connects uh via 14 foot um shared use path and then 10 foot um excuse me 14 foot ramps that go up to the bridge as well as 14 as well as a 10-ft shared use path that connects to the sidewalk on Williston Road um just beside Staples Plaza and then on the east side connects to the CVS um and then the third connection point is to the University Mall property. Um So this is phase one. Uh and we received three bids for phase one. Uh those the lowest bidder was ECI construction. Um and then the other two bids were much tighter than the last time. So um about 2 million um a part for each of them, 2 million more. Um the bids have been analyzed um and and all of the the the amounts that were substantially higher than um than was estimated have been looked at and to make sure that you know we didn't misjudge the quantity and that they maybe saw something we didn't. Um but overall um the analysis checked out and were satisfied with the bid and that it will result in a project um for um the estimated amount. So along with you know we do have a contingency as part of the owner's budget but um in general we

would recommend the award of of the contract to engineers construction huge well I just um also mentioned that this enables us to be under construction this summer which enables us to leverage the $20 million of federal funds fully into the project. I have a question. Yes. Um I'm trying to imagine how this thing gets built. So would I be correct in imagining that they would have to shunt one lane of them of northbound over to south and then vice versa as they build each half of it?

Uh so the construction is actually much quicker than that. So it will occur over several shutdowns uh evening shutdowns. So they would shut down um the northbound or the southbound lanes and traffic would be diverted um through Williston, South Burlington and and Whiskey. So during the period of of construction and that was at night, you said that would be at night and it would be one side at a time. So not not both sides at the same time. Okay. So no lane diversions at the at the construction site itself. Correct. Okay. Yeah. There could be a little little There is no words out anyway. So

yeah. Um, anything else you want to add? Anybody else want to add? You have a motion to approve this? Oh, can I ask really quick question? What's the What's the projected timeline for the whole project? So the contract completion date is October 2028. That's for phase one. That's for phase one and we're applying for funding now so that phase two can be contiguous with phase one ideally. Fingers crossed.

And the um uh the the zoning permit is for the Staples Plaza to build the uh what's the word I want? Enclosures for storm water. For for storm water. Oh, sorry. For the dumpsters. Dumpsters.

Yes. So the zoning permit um that was that uh so the agreement that was on the consent agenda would enable us to pull the permit that's required in order to award the contract. And those are that zoning permit is for improvements that we're making as part of the bridge project. But in order for the zoning permit to be issued, we need to bring the project into the site, not our site, but the Staples Plaza site into compliance with the zoning ordinance. Okay. So, is city council ready for a motion?

I move to award the construction contract for the east west alternative transportation crossing south raise one project phase one to engineers construction contingent on the issuance of the zoning permit for 861 Wilston Road and authorize the city manager to negotiate, execute, and amend the construction contract consistent with the supporting documents. I'll second that. We have a motion and a second. Any other discussion? I do have one quick thing. I just want to make sure

um and I I'll bring this up in terms of when we meet for policy priorities and strategies is is there is a funding gap on this and Alana's done a great job highlighting the um uh value engineering of the first phase and the um efforts to close that funding gap through a number of different means. I just want to make sure we continue to keep that out in front of the public and and at the top of our minds in terms of other priorities that we might be considering funding for to make sure that this can be executed without undue burden on taxpayers. Thank you Alana for the hard work. Thanks Elizabeth.

Just for the public, Alana, can you do a minute on what grants you have submitted in the last month and other big news?

Sure. Um so uh so um in February we applied for the build grant which is the um current version of the raise grant which was the first grant that we received for the project. Um we and then we also applied for congressional um discretionary spending. So we applied to Representative Balon's office for two different grants and then also to um Senator Welch's office for a third grant. Um we did hear back from Welch that they were um not uh not going they were not interested in the proposal that we submitted but the balance office said you know do a further proposal for phase two of this project. Um and then we also prepared a grant and submitted it for the Northern Borders Regional Commission. Um and so that was put in on Friday. And then on the same day, we also received notice from um Representative Fallon's office that um that our request to that office had been forwarded to the committee on appropriations. So, it's in in Congress. So, we'll see what happens. But we're very that was very a nice thing to hear on Friday.

Is doing a great job. Can I ask one more question? I know and this is going to sound really like a very naive question because it is what happens if you don't fill the gap.

Yeah. So if we if we don't we do and we do have several year not several years but we do have some time to apply for grants next year also. Um but we we you know it's obviously much better for the project to have the funding all in place this year. Um but if we do not fill the grant the gap during um discussions with the council over the winter, the council did agree that we that funds could be reappropriated from other tip district tiff district projects um specifically the garden street project um which is the second phase or the third phase of the part that is along Williston Road which is the last phase of the Garden Street project. um and from the reserve funds. That doesn't mean that that would need to be the funds that are reallocated, but those are the ones that we have proposed to BTR in order for them to allow us to put this project out to bid.

Are you ready for the vote? All those in favor say I. I. I. It is unanimous and we've given the green light to award a contract for the construction of the East West Alternative Transportation Crossing. Thank you very much for all your hard work. Congratulations. Thank you. So, let's get those shovels out. Where are they going to be gold shovels? I think they're around. Where will the Where the dig be? Staples or over at CVS? Where do you start? Uh Staples probably. Okay. Great. All right. Thank you very much. Um, we are going to take a quick break for five minutes. Thank you.

I mean, I'm Well, four out of five counselors are here and the city manager is here and before us are two other agenda item people. Let's go to item nine which is receive an update on the government operations implementation plan of the climate action plan with the Tina MZ the climate action manager and Luberie the assistant climate action manager what is your title

energy project manager energy project manager okay

I'm climate action manager good evening thank you for having us um we're going to do a a quick overview of um the status of the government operations um the emissions tracking and some of the projects. Um as you know there were several items in the agenda that folks um I welcome everyone um in the audience to review that are attached to the agenda that go a little bit deeper. Um I only have I think seven slides here that we're going to go through. So um I welcome your questions as well. So to begin, so what you see in this graph here is kind of the historical trends like what we're tracking. Um, you know, calling it historical is a kind of a little bit crazy because it's only six years or seven years, but we're looking at the calendar year 2019, 2023, 2024, and 2025, and our emissions by different sources. Um and what we see is that there's light variation yearover-year. Um but um a decrease in natural a pretty significant decrease in natural gas use in um the 2023 2024 year uh years probably related to milder winters and that went up this year. So overall, um I know that the um CCRPC was here in February and was telling you we had a 12% decrease, but that was for calendar year 2024. If we look at what we have in calendar year 2025, we're looking at a 9% decrease. So really it does depend on um how we're looking and and

the decrease has not been as significant as we would like. Anything to add? No, but I think the the 25 increases cold weather was a miserable winter for 80 mill. Yeah. And and it is uh encouraging to see the gasoline go down because it had gone up and is going down

the 9% none of that relates or does it relate to the fact that um the feed from GMP electricity feed is getting um more carbon freeers it assume the same for 19 and 25 in terms of the carbon emissions from electricity no it it does include the decrease because of was the 9% then mostly trivial to GMP or to there is some decrease increase in in others as well. But yes, most of it most of it was just a GP got cleaner.

Well, about 40% of it. I think the other the two other big ones were one this building. So, we moved out of 575. We also moved out of the library being over at the mall. So, we reduced natural gas for both of those things. I think between the three of those factors accounts for only 90% of it.

Um some of the municipal accomplishments in 2025, we went from zero to six um all electric vehicles. Um we also added six new ports of level two charging um at Airport Parkway, at Fire Station One, and at Public Works. Um, we have new efficient boilers at the police department that there's that um appendix can't remember what letter um um appendix B appendix B um details and we also um could tell that there was a reduction in fuel use because of the reduction in number of trips by the fire trucks and I think that's something that um Chief Lo has mentioned for um so that's the uh policy of in certain under centered conditions uh sending the ambulance and not sending ambulance and fire trucks on certain calls.

A quick look indicated that with some vehicles that was as much as a 30% reduction uh in fuel use on a month-by-month basis. It's a lot of benefit to doing that. Um, let's see. How are the EVs performing? Pardon me. How are the EVs performing? Everybody likes them. There have been some uh there have been some bumps along the road and I think we're straightening them out. There's people in this room and lots of places who can give you stories, but I I think we're getting getting through that.

Yeah. And and the idea is that at the end of this fiscal year, we'll track the mileage for all of these vehicles and and see how their use has been. How many oil changes have have you had to do? No.

Oil changes. Um so going a little bit deeper, maybe Lou, do you want to take this one? Is a lot of the work that Lou does tracking. we started playing around with graphs getting ready for this and all of a sudden uh when we saw the pie chart it was like oh isn't that interesting and uh the real thing that you come to grips with real fast is that there's only three places that are generating greenhouse gases for us and they're natural gas, gasoline and diesel fuel. And particularly for this graph, uh we wanted to break out what the digesttor at Airport Parkway uh contributes to the cause of the whole thing. And when you do that, it comes up, it looks like 2525, but the actual numbers are so close to that. I think the lowest one is 237 or something like that, it's ridiculous. So we the numbers up there to to look at both in terms of uh gallons and so forth or green gas tons of emission. Um and

it's just a handy way to remember what it is that we're dealing with. So we figured it was a good visual aid. Let me add one other thing. Five years ago when we started this we did a lot of concentration on looking at things by department and it makes I think a lot more sense now to talk about where the gases are coming from and not worry about the department things. U you know if we want to get rid of gasoline we got to get rid of cars and some of them we come here and some from there. So in our thinking we've kind of made that switch.

So I see you show 2030 down at the bottom that we won't be using any gasoline. Is the thought that by 2030 we'll not have we'll have a completely electric fleet. So we'll get to this to that at the end. That's not quite what we're saying, but we'll get to that at the end.

Okay. Um so some of the potential actions that we can take to reduce natural gas use. So um in this case we're talking about perhaps being able to do some moderate improvements in the digesttor digesttor gas consumption. Uh we are um going ahead and and um patching up the insulation and repainting it. We're going to paint it black and see if that's going to give us some improvement. Any improvement really. I mean there we don't have a lot of levers to pull with the digtor and therefore um we feel that any potential improvement can can be helpful. Um and then for buildings um at you know or any other HVAC systems is really at the end of their current um life um replace them with electric heat pumps. So that's that's

why does waste water take so much more pardon me waste water. Oh there are other processes in the wastewater treatment that are currently using natural gas that potentially we could switch to electric. So not digtor but they like what they heat. Well, for instance, at Airport Parkway, we have five different gas bills. Plus, then again, there's Bartlett Bay in addition to that motor meters, I should say. Related primarily to heating the different buildings that are there. It's heating for buildings. Yeah. So, there are more buildings with wastewater than there are square footage. Is that square footage? Okay.

Yes. It's a lot higher. Is is that what you mean? Okay. The dewatering building over there is a very large facility. That big big circular building. Yeah. Um and do you have a way to normalize our wastewater treatment plants are by far our most expensive asset? Okay. Right. Is there a way to normalize natural gas usage for heating by degree days so you know whether you're seeing a

Oh. Oh, definitely. And as a matter of fact, We worked that pretty hard to make sure we were getting the results we thought we were getting at the police station. Yes. If we get the greed days, uh they they show up on the bill. Um so we we keep track of that and can function that way. Yes. Was that true? I know I asked this question, but normalizing for per capita and roadways, those were some of the variables that had been listed in the report. Is are they material or not or it does it make sense to do that?

We have not done any work in that regard quantitative quantitatively but we have asked ourselves the same question that you asked. I populations increase. Uh I've asked uh Maddie to to get us uh with the employment figures. For instance, we have a lot more people on staff now than we did before and put together a list of those factors and see if any of them relate to what we're seeing. It's going to take us a little while to do that, but it's we're thinking about it.

So, I know we're going to um continue the conversation on barley by wast another time, but are any of the improvements that we're contemplating in that renovation, will those address some of the uh natural gas usage that we're seeing here? So, I think the Bartlett Bay is responsible for about 33 metric tons of CO2 per year. So, maybe that's a 10% of buildings, right? The buildings are about 330 natural gas is 330 leaving out the digesttor. So it's like a 10%. It would be a 10% decrease. 10% of the 25 or 10% of the whole pie. 10% of a 25.

10% 25. So most of it is airport parkway 25. Yes. Okay.

Um for gasoline and diesel vehicles. um gasoline um we think that replacement of um light duty gasoline vehicles with electric at their end of life is is fairly straightforward. Um we know that in a few cases we're we're not quite there yet with meeting requirements particularly for like the police u patrol vehicles but um pretty much um every other application we are there. in the case of diesel is a little bit more complicated. Um and so uh what we're suggesting we're really evaluating at this point is the feasibility of switching to a cleaner diesel fuel. Um and that would be cleaner in the sense of lower emissions um from from this fuel. Um, and we're looking at this is a fuel that's been used in ski patrol, a ski patrol, ski areas in in the western United States. There's some places in Boston that use it, New York. Um, and so this could be one way of decreasing the footprint of our diesel use um, kind of in the shorter term until we have better technology. We're hoping that technology will save us in the diesel.

Are there electric options for some of the heavy heavy duty? Like I I mean I just like read an article like China switching all the trucks electric and you see all this information news from you know Europe, Norway etc where running big machinery now you know um on batteries and is that technology just not here yet in the US? That that's right. Like for example, plow truck plow plowing trucks. Um I've seen you know in Norway and other places I've seen been big plowing trucks but they're not available here electrically. Um

there are some applications uh where there may be a candidate available when the time comes to look at replacing that vehicle. Uh two candidates that have been looked at with some degree are both street sweepers and the tank truck that runs down to Bartlett Bay because the routes are predetermined, the the usage is predetermined. It makes it easy to work with. Uh but we we just recently purchased new vehicles of both of those kinds. So their life is down the road several years. that they exist, but are we at a if you're New York City, you can go by 10 and if you have a problem, it doesn't wreck the city, you know, kind of thing. So, we're watching very closely.

Is the pie chart of vehicles by department is that the light duty vehicles or all vehicles? So, we have the gasoline vehicles is all gasoline vehicles up on the upper right. Um, and the diesel vehicles are all diesel vehicles. I mean, those are those are all heavy duty. The diesel are all heavy duty, basically. Do you know how many how many of the each of those numbers is a is a light vehicle like in the gasoline? Um,

well, I'm I'm trying to work off my I'm guessing it's like 40 45. You got all the police vehicles. Um, and public works has a good tenant F-150. Yeah. 150 250 trucks kind of thing. And the cleaner diesel fuels is actually renewable diesel. Is that what it is? It's renewable, but it's not renewable is a subset of biodiesel.

Yeah. Yeah. say it. It's what's called renewable uh advertised and apparently everybody's getting 65% reduction in greenhouse gases when they use it. Is there any in Burlington area that we can get? That's what we're trying to do is get a group of people together to generate a volume big enough to get somebody to to bring it into the area. Would we have to modify our equipment to use it? just poured in the guys in the ski area. That question came up in one of the big webinars. Yeah. And the guy's answer was the drivers don't even know. Okay.

So, we can use existing diesel tanks that we have to store. Could if we went all the way. A

lot of work to be done, but there's a big gain if you get there. There you go. Um, so this is kind of summarizing looking at the potential actions that we can take um and what kind of emission reduction we could get from each of those fuel sources um by by going down that path. And then the reduction time frame is really it's not just technology but it's also reaching that end of life right. So we want to be good stewards of taxpayer money and so we are not at this point advocating for replacing until it's time to get replaced for a particular reason. Um and so that's why a lot of those time frames kind of extend a little bit. Um but if we put all of those um reductions together, they would be about a 48% decrease from the 2019 baseline. So we would be falling short a little bit. The 2030 goal um pie chart that is depicted there is what we really wanted to get to by 2030. Um you know, which we were assuming we would be able to phase out all gasoline vehicles by then. Um and and get to that 60% reduction. So the original the 2025 whole pie I guess is um representative of the um what is it 1297 1,297 metric tons um and so the future path is uh 48% from that the 2030 um whole pie chart is a 60% reduction for that um

visually in terms of area I think if we can cut our greenhouse gas emissions in half in a decade, it's not quite the aspiration that we were hoping for in the plan, but we don't be really proud of that. It's not going to be easy to do, but there's some paths to to begin to begin to get there. So, we've already heard from the fire department that they've changed their behavior, right? So they're they're supposedly going to use less diesel. I mean, unless the number of calls goes way up, right? But are there other small behavior changes that departments can make to

Well, let's let's go back two years ago that we opened up uh use of the gas stations on Shelurn Road so they didn't have to come all the way across town. And we saw we saw a difference from that that Yeah.

and so forth. And you never know when another good idea pops up. uh in particular um fire crews are very much aware that the ladder truck is very expensive to drive drive down the road. So if you have a choice to send in the engine regular engine or the fire or the ladder truck it's almost two to one. Is there potentially some more opportunity um in our wastewater buildings to say tap it to geothermal for for heating? The buildings are are so big that maybe scale there to do something like that. If u we talked about heat pumps for airport Parkway, uh one of the buildings in particular would be perfect to do exactly what we're planning it to do with Bartlett Bay in terms of using the water that's going out and make it work that way. Uh we've looked at the others. Getting a water source near the building is is difficult. drilling for geothermal. There's not enough payback

at least at this point. There's still a 30% credit, right? I'm not remembering if the city still get that, but geothermal is one of the things that they're still credited for. We would have to move pretty fast on that. I don't think we're ready to I mean, can't just go and drill a hole, right? I'm just saying that we can't move that fast to take advantage of that. Like we don't have studies. No, no, I'm not. So, because you're saying there's there's a time constraint on that, right? For the tax credit, if that's what you meant, the geothermal credit. Mhm.

Oh. When I'm just I don't I haven't I know there's a credit for homeowners that's like in place for like uh you know, it's semi-permanent, but for the cities, would it be?

I'm pretty It's not I mean I can double check. I I think you know I'm very interested in tapping either geothermal or thermal energy networks. It might not be the right place for it but you know it's we are open to exploring a lot of possibilities and that's what we have in our CIP as well for the energy fund. we have money set aside to do studies precisely because we don't we don't know what we don't know and we don't know what potential things could appear. So the idea is to be prepared to jump on something like that if if we could.

What about sewer thermal? I mean there's a huge volume of water that comes through that place, right? And it's at some constant temperature. I know you don't want to deviate for certain, you know, reactions that you're either you know aerobic or anorobic but that it's the same concept right as having a a constant heat source right it's either 50 degrees that's you know seven feet below the ground right or it's a huge tank filled with a million gallons that's just sitting there you know clarifying so that's the concept for the Bartlett Bay is to basically use the heat from okay the sewage to heat the buildings.

I just coined that term sewer thermal, just so you know. Well, and both both of the applications that we've talked in the last five minutes can talk about getting the heat out of the fluid that leaves the plate, right? We have just received a consultant's report on a potential and done some analysis on looking at grabbing the heat for the stuff that comes into the plant. Sure. the finances on that didn't work out. Gas is gas is very cheap.

You got to you have to remember that that's one of the realities of the world. That's why everybody's using it. But there is a technique to do that. And as a matter of fact, we probably will be talking to some people about what it would take to do that just so that we understood it better. Just for the record, gas is heavily subsidized. I just want to throw that out there. Um, lest anyone watching this has any misunderstanding about that. If if there was a recent report that if renewables if those if those subsidies were shifted to renewables, um, you know, obviously that balance would flip. So, I just want to just want to set the record straight on that, make sure it's understood. We have the numbers and when the cost numbers change, we can flip it very quickly.

Any other questions?

Thank you. Thank you. Um Jesse, is that it? That was it. I thought you Jesse, do you want me to 10 more slides on this? It's great.

Do you want me to just show them real quick? The other thing um what we're working on very quickly. So we're working on trying to um tell the story of climate action in South Burlington. Um and so let me give me one second. Um we're working with um the ArcGIS story maps feature um that we have access to. Um, and these are just a couple of slides from that because it's still a draft work in progress, but we just wanted to give you a quick overview. I can't see my screen, but it should be somewhere here.

Yeah. Yep. So, you know, you would scroll down and we can, you know, this is not the live thing because it's not live yet. It's draft. Um but you would scroll down and you know we'd have a timeline of some of the actions we have taken. Um um we've included a glossery as well so people can see for example Paris agreement what's the Paris agreement they can click there and understand what that is um you know all of these are links um to the ordinance in this case to the glossery what's the solar ready zone to the energy festival to learn more about that or any of our plans and so the idea is to make it a little bit more interactive um and a little bit um more um a little bit easier for folks to know like how we've moved from where we were to where we are now. And that's my tool.

That is great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to move on to item 10, which is receive an update on the status of the Chitten County Public Safety Authority and seek concurrence with the plan for capital funds paid to the authorities. Steven Lock, fire chief. Good evening, Stephen.

Good evening, Stephen Lock. I also serve as the chair of the Chitten County Public Safety Authority. Uh, so I try to do the memo to provide some history because this does go back to 2016 in an effort to uh initiate regional dispatch services in several Chitten County communities. Um and so there if you concur there's no action needed but the um as we spell in the memo uh the communities that bought in or or move forward with this uh initiative uh back in 2018 had started to set put some money aside for uh future capital needs and with a likelihood or thought process that the project was going to go forward that uh total is about $500,000 with the city of South Burlington share about 25,000. Uh and at the last meeting of our uh work stakeholder group or our member group, uh the decision was made to ask our communities just to leave the money in there as uh and to continue to monitor what's happening at the state level. Uh so about two or three years ago, there was some really uh efforts made at the push at the state legislative level to incentivize or uh regional dispatch efforts. although um they put 11 million aside for this effort, but much of those monies to date have been spent on planning and what it could look like. Uh so because we don't know really what the state's going to do in the next one to two years, the the group believes that there's value in leaving the money in with CCPSA. And if there are opportunities to do some regional work, then those monies would could be used um to upfit a center or uh somehow within the regional dispatch efforts. And at any given time, if a community wanted their share of the monies back, they could just ask to have them um refunded.

The objective though was if there was a grant match or something along the way, having the monies set aside for that would be beneficial. And so again, the request is that we just uh that you concur with our uh recommendation, which is just to leave the money in there and continue to have these discussions about regional dispatch. And if there were opportunities in the near future to uh move with that effort that we will do that. Uh we are also talking conversations about ways you could virtual do some virtual regionalization which we somewhat do that with Burlington right now by sharing a computer aided dispatch center. So a computer aided dispatch software that allows us to dispatch one another. So um and these monies could be used if South Burlington wanted to be you wanted in the future to be a contractor. So if we wanted to dispatch for another community uh but they needed to uh make some improvements to their system to allow that to happen, we could then draw these monies out to do that. So the process I I think all of the u people who have been working on this effort for a long time um are still hopeful something could come out of it. Uh but the the system uh the group will need to elect a new chair. I I'll have one more meeting in May as the chair. then I'll be stepping down and Jesse I assume we will uh go back to having the role representing the city uh in the group meets uh we're right now about once or twice a year as we're monitoring what's going on but uh that I'll take any questions but that's a high level overview of um 10 years worth of work.

Thanks Stephen. Um is the stupid question is the money sitting in an interest bearing account? It is it's on a ladder it's in CD laded CDs. Okay. And we get that interest if we take our money out. I assume we get we get our proportional interest. Yeah. In the only expenses that are that the CCPSA currently um has, we pay about $1,000 annually for insurance on our officers and the association. Um and uh we're looking into do we really even have any liability given what our what our efforts are. Um, and so we may not even have that in the near in the future.

So, you have a general sense of how long we wait until we pull the plug on this, you know, if it doesn't pan out. Do you have any

Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll say I'll say this, you know, well, I'll say two things. Uh, this is this effort's been going on for 60 years. Um but with that a month a three months ago Jesse and I were making made were prepared to make a recommendation to the group this this uh the the representatives that we disband uh keep the keep the give the money back but keep the name because it is a governance structure that could be used um for other regional efforts and the all the other participants would prefer to not give up on this yet. So what I think maybe a year or two if there's no no other further action, I think what we'll I think the opportunity now is going to be to pick up one or two customers as a contract for services um and then we become a service provider to another community and we could use those monies for that. I think the police chief is looking at a reorg within his uh his dispatch center that would allow for a civilian oversight and then that would give us the capacity to start having these communities these conversations with other communities about are you willing or to come to here as a contracted service versus a true regional effort where what this was initially intended to be. just leave it alone.

I appreciate that. I'd love to see some progress, but I know a lot of people like to see some progress. So, and the state needs to help move that progress along. So, yeah. All right. Thank you. One more quick question. I'm so sorry. It just dawned on me. Um, and Elizabeth and I talked about something along these lines. What role would advocacy from this group of people have on the state's um inertia on this issue and I guess other issues like it?

You know, I don't know. Do you have a you have a bet better answer? Mine's probably not a very good answer. Um, so I I mean we we've all talked about this a bit that I think more that this body doing more advocacy generally on lots of fronts would be very helpful. I think on this you know the I will just say for history. One of the reasons Steve and I are both here is because of regional dispatch. So I got to know this community through Kevin through regional dispatch. Steve and I were on the board from Burlington together. How we got to know each other. Um, we've been doing this for a long time. I think the challenge for I don't know if this is what you're gonna say, but the challenge for us strongly advocating at the state level for this is that there are so many communities in Vermont for for whom the dispatch system doesn't work far worse than it doesn't work for us right now. So the challenge for us right now is that we are basically double paying for dispatch because we are running our own system and we're paying state taxes for um state PAPs to operate and we believe that there's a better way to do that locally both for mostly poor efficiency to the to the caller. Um right now if you call 911 from the city it goes to a PAP and then back to our dispatch center. So we think that there's a more efficient way to do that. Having said that, we also have a local dispatch center as opposed to rural Vermont where they're relying solely on PAPs to dispatch I don't know many hundreds of uh volunteer nonprofit and municipal first responding groups. So the whole system is incredibly in need of different logic or a different structure. Um and we are better off than most in that. So to I think we would we

will do advocacy on this over time. Um but I think that's the the lobbying challenge. No one feels sorry for the city of South Burlington over their dispatch capabilities. And I think that that is when many other communities have working off in, you know, working off index cards or paper books to to who they who do they notify. And you know, there's um yeah, I think it's a significant challenge for much of the state. I think one of the ways that it would be helpful to work with the council on this in the future is um us becoming a service provider to our neighbors. So we modernized our dispatch center three years ago. Um we have the capacity to dispatch for other communities. Um and but that's going to take and budgets and partnership with our other local elected officials and blah blah blah. And I think that's where we hope is an incremental step to longer regional change over time.

Great. Thank you. Um item 11, appoint a council representative to the board of the South Burlington City Center Collaborative. Raise your hand if you want to be on the board. Lori, we select you.

Can I can I make a quick comment? Um I I have been trying to sit in since an to on these meetings since an left. Um and it's a very vibrant group and they're really doing a lot of good work. Um, I do think the strongest connections are between um, economic development and um, the SP3C is a co-sponsor of the energy festival and that might be a looser connection, but um, in listening to some of the work they're doing, I think those are the strongest connections um, with the organization right now from my perspective.

Am I hearing you volunteering? What is the time commitment?

So they have monthly you've been said city you've been sitting at monthly board meetings. I think they are during the day in the morning. Um, and I don't know what day they meet and they may be modifying those because they did recently name um, Superintendent Dr. Joe Clark to their board. So, I do believe the meetings, I can't recall the day, but it was mornings. Um, so they may be modifying that to accommodate um, their reconfigured board. I'm out. You're out. No one else wants to do it. I

Well, we can wait for Lori, but we can just wait for him. Let's see if we table. Yep. I'll just put Lory's name down here. question mark.

I guess I would I would make one little pitch here as you all think about it and to the next meeting and we'll put it back on. You know, I think one of the reasons theou that you approved with SB3C to have a counselor on the board is that right now we are the majority funer of this organ or the C city is a majority funder of this organization. So to be good stewards of those dollars, having that close connection is important and you know SB3C is really one of our main tools for growing the vibrancy of city center to prove the success of our tiff over time um and has huge potential to really help us create community in city center. So um it is another obligation. You guys work really hard anyway. Um but I I hope it would be a fun opportunity for the right person over time. table to next meeting

and I would I would consider it if the meetings were feasible for me but I just I can't commit to it's just not even okay then uh item 12 which is discuss the FY27 policy priorities and strategies process and provide direction to staff bring it over Anna online data manager Jesse's here. Are you there? I am here. Hi. Do you want to walk us through this?

Uh, sure. Um, so we are bringing forth our recommendation for the process that we'd like to follow this year for setting the annual policy priorities and strategies. Uh we've shared with you a memo that outlines the background of the PPNS process as Jesse has led it for several years. Uh we've been making iterative improvements to how we're managing the PPNS process and reporting over time. So for FY27 uh we have proposed uh the process and the timeline we would like to follow for making uh our priorities for fiscal year 27. Uh as part of the memo, uh we've outlined the pieces of information that we would be collecting for each priority that we'd like to propose uh to the council uh and how we'd be describing those priorities. I wanted to give the council an opportunity to comment on any of this uh and the information they see in here as well as the timeline that we've outlined for the process. Uh one of our hopes for this meeting is that the council uh will set the date uh for a council meeting with the leadership team. Uh this would be a working meeting uh during which we would review all the policy priorities that have been proposed by committees, by council members and by staff uh and try to determine uh which priorities we want to move forward with for FY27. Is council comfortable with the schedule? Any comments or feedback?

I have feedback. I just just quickly um I thought that this document was very easy to understand as a newcomer to this council. So, thank you for the clarity of your description. Anyway, just want to throw that out there.

Um can I make a quick comment? I know um at the meeting I wasn't able to attend the issue of um seeking feedback from the charter committee came up and I I don't know the right forum. I know the the charter committee by um our own definition is one that the council engages on an as needed or decided basis. Um the concern I have is that we have this group of community volunteers that's assigned to the charter committee. There's been some transition in leadership um after the last charge that they had. Um, and I do feel like, you know, when we are engaging committees around public art, the Sexton's, safe routes to schools, and not a governance committee, it just to have the conversation around is there anything that might be on the radar screen. Um, it feels like a gap in that process. Um it doesn't mean we're obligated to do anything, but um I do feel like giving that committee sort of the same opportunity to provide feedback um makes sense from my perspective. Um, so I don't know if it it it's probably too late for the May meetings, but I'm wondering if there might be something for the um when we do the um uh strategy and priorities meeting if there might be an opportunity to have that conversation um with the charter committee. And and I actually do think there's the potential for an issue that may come up based on what the legislature does with the local options tax that Stowe has in front of them. that there may be an opportunity

to um consider a charge associated with um the the uh LOT. Thanks, Elizabeth. Um do we want to ask there was some key questions about about the role the public would play in the process? Do we want to change anything because they they had uh attended the um the meeting that what we call the That's not really a retreat, is it? That we call it retreat before working. Working meeting. Okay. But they have attended the working meeting in the past and I I think that was okay. You think it did work? Is that where you suggesting a possible change?

So last year we changed it. So in the meeting before the working meeting we had nobody came. What? Nobody came. Um so it was an attempt at something which didn't work. So, but people came through working. Just ask question. Um, how do we best use the council leadership team working meeting time?

So, the I mean, we've we've used a very similar process in the past where we kind of walk through a series of questions, conversations about what's been proposed. Um it's a little different every year depending on how much um overlap there is or how much how many active um open questions there are. So if you all would like to ask for something specific you certainly can or we can see what we get back from everybody and make a agenda based on that back from leadership team or back from you back from the committees and back from staff. Yeah,

I I do think one thing, you know, Jesse, you've outlined effectively um in the preparation for this is the amount of staff time and and financial resources that are dedicated to existing, you know, rollover priorities and ongoing operations. So, um I think it would be important to hear from you and any of your leadership team that is included in that meeting kind of what the what the baseline is um just so there's a clear understanding of where there's rollover priorities on an annual basis and um where there's um financial commitments as well.

I guess along that same theme in terms of additional information is um whether capacity for for new things um or whether or not any new thing has to be um replaced by taking off an old thing. Is that information usually provided um beforehand or we just walk into the meeting cold and not know? I mean, I know I know there's a lot of information in the city plan, etc., and the previous policies and priorities document. Um um but anyway, the assessment that Elizabeth requested, is there a way to get that

beforehand or is that already out there somewhere in the shared?

So, it's not um I would say an analysis that's that numeric and Anna if you have ideas here feel free to jump in. You know I think how staff historically has tried to balance that is receiving the feedback of what you all want to be working on and what you want to be continuing and what we want to discontinue. Um and then staff providing a set of recommendations. So when you when we warn the meeting we'll send you kind of a proposed set with things that are we've heard from you that are on a bike rack and things that we are we are agreeing like yes absolutely we should move forward and then you all toggle those things on and off. So the capacity analysis is really in that set of recommendations because quite frankly and this is a change Anna made last year is the lines on the you know the priorities within the policy priorities are not equal. So like building a bridge over the interstate is not the same as updating a water ordinance. And so it's hard for us to quantify the difference and then also quantify are all the lines Tom's lines and only one sits with Alana or are they equally distributed across the expertise of the department or of the city staff. So that's how how we try and juggle it in our recommendation to you. Um and you will get that ahead of time.

Can I point out to Anna mentioned this earlier but two import dates. So, one on this timeline, May 20th is when we hope for you all to give us your feedback and ideas, um, which will allow us time to integrate your thinking with the committee's thinking into a set of recommendations. And then right now, all four of you can do June 17th for a working meeting. So, I've emailed Lori on vacation, sorry, Lori, uh, to see if that is possible for him. Um, but fingers crossed it will be June 17th. Yeah, that's

Anna. Anything else I missed that you want to highlight? I don't think so. So, I think you did a good job explaining uh our goal in getting feedback from the committees uh in those um documents, the work plans that they're submitting to you all um and then getting your thoughts as council and combining that with the staff um identified priorities. This is this is really clear. Every year it gets very tight. It's very tight. C can I clarify the May 20th expectations are is that a at a meeting or is that in submitted

whatever you and I had a whole conversation today if we ask you to do a template and we're like nope just in whatever form you would like to give it to us bang it out please give it to us great thank you Anna thank you Anna all right moving on item 13 discuss council interest in changes to the policy committee structure. Oh, sorry. That's me again, isn't it? Yes.

Sorry. Sorry. Uh, so at your last meeting, you talked about um, you know, we're we're advertisements are out for new committee members. Um, if you wanted to make any changes to committee structures at this point. Um, I think you specifically talked about naming charge of energy and climate and you talked about um, NRCC recreation and parks overlap. Um, so I said I'd put it back on the agenda. Here it is. It might be hard to talk about this also without Lori um, since he is leazison to two of those committees. But if you wanted to talk about changes, here's an opportunity. We can also do this later on as well. I I have two that I'd like to talk about and I think we should um come back to NRCC and Parkland when Lori is here but um yeah I would love to and but we should probably get feedback from the energy committee too on this but re rename the committee climate and energy and to include in their charge um focus on climate change mitigation and resilience doesn't really say it exactly now. Yeah, I I would support that and I think we can hold off on the charge till we have the the um input meeting specifically because I think we'll hear more from the hopefully we'll hear more from the energy committee too.

Then along the same line but slightly different, I'd love to um also adjust the housing committee charge to focus on energy to include include um um a charge to um focus on energy efficient housing and climate friendly housing. Well, wouldn't that come under the new climate energy committee?

No, not really. I mean, look, um, climate is a multi-disiplinary, you know, kind of cross. I mean, it's not you can't just have like one. We we know that you can't have just one group. There are things that will come up in housing that will have, you know, climate impacts and climate, you know, there will be um levers that the housing committee will Poland can push um because that's the way climate is. Climate just as across everything and I think including it explicitly in the charge that they need to think about would be useful.

I I agree with that idea and I'm just I just have a question about it. What would the what would the relationship between that committee and you know say the um I don't know if it would be the DRB or the planning commission be right because because I mean the way I'm thinking about it is like um they're think you know housing committee can say maybe we should think about building smaller houses. How do we incent would it be like exactly something under the energy committee is something that they they could um incubate that idea and maybe kick it up to the planning commission. That's just one thing, right? But there are ideas like that that I think intersect with things that the housing committee could or should be thinking about that will affect climate.

Yeah. From my perspective, again, I think this will be part of the conversations. I I do know the housing committee will be coming forward with um a focus on if not housing needs assessment, housing action plan and the interaction between committees um is where I think some of those initiatives would be addressed where a committee would be looking for input like I know the house a housing committee member has been asked to provide input on the EV um plan. Um, so vice versa. It could be the housing committee might be asked to put have input on a new newly constituted climate energy committee plan. Um, so I I think it's important we go through the process of the work plans to figure out if the charges specifically need to change because there are there is language in the current um work plan of the housing committee relative to energy efficient um homes and assessing that. Um, so I I can't rephrase it off the top of my head, but it may address part of what you're asking for.

I guess I just see that as a little backwards. I mean, in the sense that we set the policy, we set what, you know, they should be working on, then that drives the work plan. So I I don't know. I kind of see us in the role of defining what we think they should, you know, what what their charter, what their charge is. Um, and we we discuss that with them, but to me, it's not is in the work plan. It's okay. It's it should be in the charge. I can see extending their their charge to to incorporate some wording about energy. I have a problem with that. But I mean the state pretty much dicts what the RBS standard is, right? And you know, whatever Scott says it is, it is for now, right? So

no. Uh well, we don't know whether those are enforceable at this point, right? Based upon we don't know what the what the executive order is, right? Oh, I'm sorry. So, so so if there is an RBS that that's already applicable, then the only difference they can make is like where to build the housing and what size it is. I mean, see what I'm saying? There might be other things. I don't know what all the Right. Right. I don't know either. I'm just saying they're just trying to build more housing period because there's not enough housing.

Well, but part of our goal, our mission, my part, I mean our city plan is when we build housing, we want to build climate smart housing. And so in my mind, that should be part of what they're thinking about as they think about housing. It just seems very natural. I understand. I'm just saying there's already a standard that they have that construction has to follow. Anyway, we know, Tim, that the city has done more stuff. We've we've we've got, you know, rules about dense housing. We've got rules about EV charging housing. We've got rules about right solar. I mean, but there's and it's not an exhaustive list. And so I think that there's creative thinking that can go on, you know, to expand that list because I I I myself can come up with six half dozen other things. So if you want to extend their charge, it'll be great, but I would leave a name.

Oh, I wouldn't change a name for housing. I just I would like to incorporate in their charge. Yeah. Um something about climate and energy efficiency. something about energy efficiency. I I would call it climate friendly housing if but I yeah energy efficiency. Well, um, it's not just efficiency. It's also, um, carbon efficiency, right? I mean, you can have a very efficient home that uses natural gas, right? Um, you already have a that's not a problem, right? No, I'm just saying it's efficiency is not the the the only thing, right? There's also being carbon smart. So, I mean, it's more than that. There's also an affordability issue. Just saying. long term.

I think I mean if I'm understanding correctly, I think all these things can be true simultaneously and you could just build in you know language to make it more like more into the consciousness of the committee. I guess I think Elizabeth pointed out that they already have some language in there about um about climate change etc. Um I don't think there's any harm in you know elevating it in the the you know the routine discussions of the committee because it also saves money. A lot of these things do save money and make things more affordable in the long run and um you know there are resilience considerations as well. It's not just mitigation but you know we should be thinking about resilience etc. So I don't think that in other words I don't think that there's a conflict here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Don't mind any of the charges. I just don't want to be the main focus because the main focus needs to be on getting housing built. No, no, I I agree, Tim. All right. Somebody in the audience wants to speak. Any other counselors have any comments before we allow the public to speak? Ryan,

thank you, Tim. Ryan Doyle speaking. Uh speaking of the environment, um public transportation is really good for the environment and there is a committee that already talks about a lot of alternative transportation modes, but they don't have um the specific language that focuses on public transportation in their charge and mission. And that is something that I would recommend that you folks consider um sculpting some language for. Am I allowed to ask Ryan a question? Or am I not allowed to ask Ryan a question directly? Is that Oh, am I allowed to ask Ryan a question? If you want to go ahead.

Okay. Are you referring to the bike ped committee? I'm sorry. Yes. Thank you. Question for Jesse because this is also like um the energy committee often talks about public transportation um and the bike pick committee sometimes does. where I guess maybe that's another thing we need to clarify right because we have um who you know who who is the which which committee is the kind of principal um committee that focuses on public transportation

well I mean I don't think it's in any committee's charge at the moment and and in the adopted resolution charge I think staff spends a huge amount of time on public transportation especially now with the lawn and fall on the GMT So I think it's thus far um a priority that that really has been more staff held than committee held. Um but when staff presents about GMT changes is it to you guys really? I mean again it's I know when I was on a committee they spent some time talking about publication

but maybe maybe it does make sense to realign that and and specifically put it in the charge of padm I'm not sure that does feel kind of good to me I guess I would I I think it's not a bad idea and I think we could craft some language I do again kind of tracking the money just a reminder that you spend about 700 $800,000 a year on public transportation. So, it is it is something that I would always want the council as a whole to be a bit more engaged with than than other things. I could ask Paul and Alana if they had an opinion of where

that'd be helpful. I do. Yeah, it's interesting because I think we know we need that scale to um really bring that vibrancy to city center and with you know the balance of the tiff being funded over the next eight plus years it would make sense to be focusing on that to sort of retain that scale or or build that scale. Any other comments? We'll wait for Lori for natural resources.

Can I make a quick comment? This is not relative to structure, but um uh I did um I I know this probably didn't get covered at the meeting I wasn't at, but um one I did want to ask at some point in our review of committees that we get an update on where our spending is on the stipen budget line,

just so we know what that's at. Um, and then I also thought, um, I know there was some criteria that might be available rel uh relative to committee appointments on attendance, but I wondered if we shouldn't be considering um a more specific attendance practice. Um, and I know I had a recommendation that might uh be considered that if a committee member misses three consecutive meetings, the chair or count and or council leazison would just have a conversation with that member about availability and continue to interest. Um, just reinforcing the need or expectation for participation. Um, and then if a member missed 50% of meetings in a 12-month period that the council could retain the right to replace the member if necessary. And I didn't know how the council felt about maybe modifying that practice or if we wanted to get more feedback on it. Is there I mean, have you seen have you seen issues that would necessitate us adopting kind of prescriptive rules like that? Well, I can't speak for all the other committees, but I I feel like oftentimes committee attendance can wayne and when there's heavy workload um it falls on fewer shoulders. So I think sometimes in the past we've considered expanding committee um members to accommodate workload but I think reinforcing participation and maybe being a little more specific when we're interviewing candidates saying are you available to attend the meetings that there be the expectation sent so we have that opportunity I'm just asking pretty soon let me just clarify so like the committees that I sit on I I've seen pretty robust participation but I'm asking you have you seen um issues that kind of you know to the contrary that require kind of prescriptive rules of the kind you're

articulating. I have seen that. Yes. Yeah. So when we want to discuss this future item or

well I I guess for both of these conversations um charges to committees and attendance policies um that updating stipen information I'll I'll just put that on a a variety of that information um you know with head nods that you all are interested in exploring some of these things I would put it back on the agenda likely for um one of your meetings where you're either doing interviews or making appointments and you can weigh in on whether I've captured your conversation correctly. I may also for the ones that are about a committee loop in the council leaison into drafting that. Sounds good.

All right, let's move to item 14, which is convene as liquor control commission. Can I have a motion to convene as moved? Second. We have a motion. Second. All those in favor say I. I. Unanimous. There are many, many, many entities here that are looking for uh new license approval. So, can I have a motion to approve all of these? So, so moved. Second. We have a motion, a second. All those in favor say I. I. I. And it's unanimous as well. Now, we need a motion to come out of liquor. So moved. Second. Motion to second. All those in favor say I. I. I.

Thank you. It's unanimous. We are now out of liquor control. Back to item 15, which is review the significant agenda topics for the May 4th meeting. Man, time is flying. So, your next two meetings are will be heavy in committee reports, recommendations to you of policies and strategies. So, next meeting you'll hear from the bike ped committee, natural resources, the sex and recreation and parks. They'll also um have a discussion about pickole at Samansky Park and receive the rental registry annual report. Great. And maybe um discuss again how we move forward with um yes task force fig out who the two people. Yes.

The two people the March 11th. Oh yes. Yes. The two people got it. Okay. Any comments on the uh future agenda other than that? All right. Is there any other business?

Um, two quick things. I don't know when it's appropriate, but it um I think it'd be helpful to get a legislative update at some point on the agenda, and I know people are busy right now, but um at some point um and then secondarily, um just wondering when we would be getting updates on Bartlett Bay.

We are um reviewing that timeline tomorrow morning in our executive team meeting. Um, I believe it will likely be the second meeting in May or the first meeting in June. I also anticipate it will be more than one meeting for you all to have conversation, take the necessary actions if you so choose to have a second vote. And then have all the meetings that we've gotten Google polls on have been scheduled yet? I know we got the June 17th right here.

So, uh, they've all No, they have not all been scheduled yet. Um, as I said, Lori, we're hoping Lori can do June 17th. And then there are two dates. Um, I actually put it, let me see. Right now, um, three of you can do uh, committee interviews the evening of May 28th and the evening of June 3. You're the one I haven't heard of from that. I responded earlier saying on the policies of Oh, did you is that Oh, then then those two dates are also good for everybody but for Lori.

Um, so I will send out holds for all of those things in the hopes that Lori because you don't know Lori can do or you have heard of I have I have not heard from him yet. Uh so you would have that conversation at your um May 18th meeting in executive session. Okay. Um Daniels motion to adjurnn motion second. All those in favor say I. I. Don't go anywhere. We have to sign the red book. Thank you all.

Thank you. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.