City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Charter Review Committee. I'm going to ask a friend from San Bernardino High School to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Mark Westwood, would you do us the honor?

It's my honor to stand and face the flag of our nation. Place your right hand over your arm.

justice for all please be seated shall we call the roll yes casey daly ward one is absent scott olson ward two present angela torres ward three present ward four is vacant andy garcia ward five present ricky van johnson ward six james albert ward seven Timothy Prince, Mayor's appointee. Present. Leticia Briggs, Mayor's appointee. Present. You have a quorum.

Thank you. And we want to welcome our new representative from the city. Mr. Lampe, would you introduce yourself and give us a word or two?

Yes, so my name is William Lampe. I'm a senior management analyst in the city manager's office I've been with the city since November of 2021. This is actually the first city I've actually worked at prior to being a City employee.

I was actually a high school teacher for eight years That's good experience We might even be better behaved than your high school experience I don't know if that was true at San Bernardino High School, but. Right. Do we have a consensus to allow the members of the public to speak first or would you like, okay, why don't we do that? We have a speaker slip from Mark Westwood. Three minutes.

of five radio stations all based in San Bernardino. Lots of San Bernardino credentials, but I'm not gonna go over that. I've been here 38 years. I wanna take my three minutes doing that. What I want to do is talk about our new, it's no longer new city charter. It's 10 years now. And I think it's made the city static. It's time to change that. Build partnerships. And this body has a big job. And once in a while, and the city has to be the city on the move, but I don't think it's moving. Meanwhile, other cities in the region in the Sanum economy are roaring. Not San Bernardino. We took the wrong direction. A big experiment 10 years ago, and this charter that I have sitting over there is the root problem. San Bernardino, a city with over a quarter million people, has too much power with unelected people who all seem to be temporary employees. Mayors can be here four to eight years. We need a stronger leader, not the person I'm talking about, but the position. But instead, we side with employees who are not answerable directly to the voters, too many powerful people who are not elected. Work towards making the mayor position less inert and carefully, carefully more powerful. Make the city manager a chief of staff again with more protection so that he is not temporary. Structure your council like a Congress who votes, not a bunch of politicals all polling in different directions. Whatever you do here should be to make more synergy and more partnerships and working towards partnerships, not divisiveness. Right now, the mayor has a designated duties in the city charter with only a veto vote. There are eight designations for the city mayor, 16, the mayor has only a veto vote, 16 designations and responsibilities for the city manager in the charter with no vote. A big committee where no one has enough power to move the pendulum and no one is held fully responsible, even though the public's impression is of a historical mayor that does not exist, that does not have that power any longer. The average critical citizen of San Bernardino would be astonished to find out how little the mayor really has to say. We need to go with public perception, as that is what they want. One person in charge, one person responsible, one person to move the pendulum. Under this charter, the only option the council and the mayor has to take corrective action towards our city manager is to remove them. And obviously, that has caused the mayor and the council to remove the city manager at least 13 times. I think this is the 13th city manager in 12 years. San Bernardino seems to be static, like my phone lines, ruined by a city project with no response. The mayor tried to respond but couldn't help. Public works didn't respond. I haven't had phone lines in my business for over 69 days. Try operating a business that way. You've got a big responsibility. I encourage you to work to form the partnerships and to really revise this charter. Thank you.

The next speaker slip is from Steve.

Good evening, committee. My name is Steve. I actually just wanted to kind of give a bit of a feel for my experience with Mr. Prince and meeting and knowing him, building a friendship with him. I just wanted to talk about how he's affected the committee, how he's been a part. He's a very busy man. As a lot of us know, he's an attorney that works in multiple fields, and yet he's still here today. Yet he's still here whenever you guys need him. Yet, you know, every time that me and him have conversations, he'll always let me know of the functions that you guys are involved in. I just, you know... From knowing Mr. Prince, I see a passion in him from living here, growing up here, having family roots, generational family roots in San Bernardino. I know his care for the city, his ear for the people, his want to see San Bernardino start making the right decisions and not to continue. Obviously, we know that Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity. And we can't continue going on in this way. You guys look around, look at the streets, look at the community, look how it definitely has potential. But this is where we need you guys to come together as a committee. This is where we need minds like Mr. Prince, who is willing to be a very heavy critical thinker. Me and him debate all the time. We have many different views. However, he's willing to listen to logic. We get passionate. And that's to be expected, but there's always the mutual respect and the open-mindedness that's always brought to the conversation, which I really respect in him as a man and somebody who cares about this community. So honestly, I don't know if that was three minutes or if I'm even close, but I just wanted to come in and just let you know that my personal experience with a man who is passionate and cares for the community as well as its growth and its future. I just encourage that you guys do keep this into consideration and you consider to keep these critical thinking minds at play, okay? Thank you.

Thank you. Next is Leticia.

Good afternoon, committee. How are you today? Today I'm speaking in support of the important work of this committee because we need better government in San Bernardino. I purchased a home about five years ago and I got like, what did I do? Where did I move? Everybody kept saying, well, welcome to the armpits of San Bernardino. After a couple of years living there, I realized that I made a huge mistake. And I put my house for sale again. I met Mr. Prince and said, you know, there is potential in this city. Just hang in there. Give it a couple of more years. You're going to really invest in your home. I put my house, I took it off the market and it's been improving. However, I feel like we still need more. I think the city needs more help. It has potential for growth. I have gotten to know Mr. Prince as an attorney, as a community advocate, and personally me experiencing how helpful he is. I am a paralegal, and obviously you know we can't give advice, but Mr. Prince is always available for me to do the right thing when I come to preparing documents. He's helped some of my clients. he's obviously an attorney with great potential he is a reflection of his father who was a city attorney for san bernardino and i see the passion and love that he has for this city and it makes me sad sometimes to see you know i'm always Driving down Baseline Highland and I see the city just torn down. A lot of the buildings are vacant. A lot of transients and people just trespassing burning buildings. And I think we need someone that knows what the hell they're doing with this city. Not just to be a mayor or just say, hey, I'm here and... the city is falling apart. I've kept my house and I've worked on it and I feel that more people need to come to this city and see that it is a place that could grow, a city that has a lot of potential. It has great potential that we all as a committee, as a community are together and make this city a better city. There was a little Instagram that said the top worst cities to live in and the first one that came up was San Bernardino. And I've been seeing the path of just lots of homeless people and on the parks. You can't even take my granddaughter to the park because the parks are just full of tents. And we need to make that a better place for our community. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS COMMITTEE TO SEEK MEANINGFUL PUBLIC INPUT AND TO DEVELOP AND DEBATE CHANGES TO OUR CITY CHARTER. MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS IN BALANCING THE IMPORTANCE AND INTEREST INVOLVED. MR. PRINCE HAS BEEN INVOLVED. SORRY. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. I APPRECIATE YOU.

THANK YOU.

Hello? OK. It's been a minute since I've spoken at one of these. So I was listening to the previous speakers. And just from my knowledge in San Bernardino, having been here when I first was introduced to it 10 years ago, I was able to see the, just referencing what Leticia was speaking about earlier, I was able to see the Carousel Mall when I first, I walked around the neighborhood here in the downtown area. And I saw the potential that lies within it. I saw what it was and what it could still be. It's my understanding that the city manager position holds more authority than the mayor. And to someone like myself who has done community organizing, that just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of the community, because the lay person is not going to suspect that there's someone else, or that a mayor has no authority. Essentially, they're a lame duck, essentially. And in support of Mr. Prince here, I've also had the pleasure and honor of working with him. He's tested my arguments and refined them, but always with sound logic and reason, never with impulse or emotion. So I think that someone like that helping make decisions for our community is in our best interest. Okay, I'll give up my time.

Thank you. The last speaker slip I have is from Sarah.

Hello everyone, good evening. Thank you so much for having me here today. My name is Sarah, I'm a Berkeley student. I graduated from Indian Springs High School, just a couple blocks away from here. And most importantly, a proud resident of San Bernardino. As someone who has been working from a very young age with a goal of mine to one day be in your shoes and aspire to create positive change in the city. I'm here today to express my disappointment regarding the lack of progress that this city has witnessed in the past few years. the lack of a consolidated governmental power, and the recent questioning of charter committee member Timothy Prince's intentions to change this. Although I have known Mr. Prince for a relatively short time, he has quickly become both a mentor and a role model to me. During this time, I have learned a great deal from him, not only about the law, but about the city. and the importance of a sure commitment to making San Bernardino a place where everyone can try. Something that he has thoroughly been working for his entire life. I have rarely encountered someone with such passion, love and care for this city. It is clear to me that every decision that he takes is guided by what he believes is best for the people of San Bernardino. He's selfless, honest, and deeply committed to his work, his family, and this city. I hope that those here present today are all able to see the importance of having someone who cares so deeply about this city and about this committee, and people who appreciate his knowledge and love for this city. LASTLY, I URGE YOU MEMBERS OF LASTLY, I URGE YOU MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE TO LOOK INWARDS THIS COMMITTEE TO LOOK INWARDS AND MAKE DECISIONS THAT DOESN'T AND MAKE DECISIONS THAT DOESN'T ONLY SERVE THE PEOPLE SITTING ONLY SERVE THE PEOPLE SITTING HERE TODAY, BUT SERVE EVERY HERE TODAY, BUT SERVE EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE CITY.

SINGLE MEMBER OF THE CITY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

WE'VE GOTTEN ANOTHER SPEAKER WE'VE GOTTEN ANOTHER SPEAKER SLIP FROM MARIAM. I was running around today. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you guys for your time. And thank you guys for your volunteer work to our city. We really appreciate that. And it's much needed. I think today you guys are really going to start discussions around community engagement and how to start to get feedback from our community regarding the charter, and how the charter is going to move, where the charter is going to go, and how the community see that. I guess my only recommendation, and as a community member, who has been part of this community engagement sessions, like where I'm giving that feedback, as well as where I am hosting some of this community engagement sessions, focus groups. I just kind of want to give some recommendations. Definitely, if you can find a group that has already been doing that community engagement here in our city, who knows what's happening with the charter, not just now, but historically, who knows what's been happening with the charter. as well as really look for the people who have been strong voices in a position of the charter as well as in favor because I think that it is really important to have both conversations on both sides I think we tend to not want to have that because we believe that it's a clash. But I also believe that conflict means growth. And I think that it's okay to have that when it's in a good space where there's good facilitation happening. And I think the charter is definitely one of those spaces that we need to have deep conversations even though they may not be in agreement with it all, right? So yeah, I think those are definitely some of the, I would recommend please don't spend 50, $80,000 bringing in an Orange County group to do this community engagement where then we have seen time and time again that that money is spent and they don't do the job that they're supposed to do. They don't engage the people that they're supposed to engage. And what ends up happening is they actually end up trying to connect with those groups that are already doing the work. but those groups that are already doing the work don't get the payment and that outside group actually gets paid so what are we really paying for right um so yeah again um that's those have been those have been some of the most learning uh I guess from this experience and living here and doing a lot of the work here in San Bernardino, those have been my learning experiences. Wanted to share that with you guys and I really hope that we can bring a true meaningful community engagement on this charter because this is our governing structure. This means a lot and it's so important and we need it to be done right and spend the money right because we don't have a lot of that money to go around. Let's do it right the first time, so thank you.

Thank you all for speaking and participating tonight. We appreciate it. Why don't we start with the seventh ward for committee member comments. Mr. Albert.

No comments from me.

Mr. Johnson.

Thank you. I just want to thank all the people who came up and spoke and shared your time and what's on your mind as well. As far as Miriam, thank you for your comments. As we look to engage the public, the people sitting here don't have all the answers. I mean, that's just a given. We are a city of over 200,000 people, and hopefully we take that into mind that there are some people that are outside of this room that have information that would be beneficial to enhancing our charter and so as we look to go out into the community and talk about how we can improve our city constitution we will welcome those voices at least definitely i would thank you once again for attending and sharing what's on your hearts and minds thank you mr garcia

No comments. I just want to thank the community for coming out and speaking and for those watching online. Thank you for all your comments and look forward to getting some things done.

GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT. GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT. GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT. WILLIAM, WELCOME. WILLIAM, WELCOME. WILLIAM, WELCOME. WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE. WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE. WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE. WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE. GOT THE BIG BOYS OUT TONIGHT. GOT THE BIG BOYS OUT TONIGHT. GOT THE BIG BOYS OUT TONIGHT. AND I JUST HOPE WE CAN MAKE SOME AND I JUST HOPE WE CAN MAKE SOME AND I JUST HOPE WE CAN MAKE SOME PROGRESS AND GET THINGS MOVING PROGRESS AND GET THINGS MOVING PROGRESS AND GET THINGS MOVING IN A FORWARD

Thank you all for coming. I appreciate your opinions and voices and I'm glad that we're now all of a sudden getting to balance out the core of the problem. I appreciate that's what we basically need is constituents information. We need to get that information to us in a timely manner so we can attend to it and address it properly. I thank you guys for coming. Mr. Prince, I've only known you a short period of time, but I can tell you for the little that I do know, I like what I see.

Thank you. Mr. Olsen?

Yeah, there's all sorts of things I could say. I want to thank all of you out there in the audience, because you're the ones who come and you're the ones who speak and tell us where you're at. And quite honestly, you're nailing it better than the city officials. And I say that with somebody who's been around for a long time and a lot of politics. Okay, I have a very specific request and I'm very happy that the city attorney is here. Because I was informed when it came on the board that we are not allowed, we are literally prevented legally from discussing anything about a strong mayor. and putting that back on the ballot. Now, verbal is great, and I appreciate the feedback and the knowing that that's a part of what the city council voted on. My request is very simple. I would like for the city attorney to pull up what the city council actually voted what the wording was and what we can't do as far as a strong mayor and then I would like a legal definition of what defines what a city manager is because for a lot of us up here there's some people that say when it comes to the mayor we can't do nothing for the mayor because we're not allowed to and I don't think that's accurate okay so if the city attorney puts it in writing I have a tangible thing that I can look at because you know what I'm not interested in a strong mayor And the public made it very clear on February 2nd that they didn't want to get rid of the mayor, they wanted clarity. They wanted the mayor to be able to know exactly what she was doing, because the current charter is so nebulous. One person can say, hey, great mayor, you did a wonderful job, I love it. And the other person will tell them, you horrible person, you can't do that. And they're talking about the same thing, because our charter is not. You know, it's like a half a page that defines the mayor's responsibility. We're running a city of almost a quarter million people off of half a page. And it's even shorter for the city council. You see, it's not just as mayor we need to clarify things for and give to the public. It's also for the city council. And how can you expect a city manager to do his job when the elected officials he's supposed to be working with and for don't even have a clarity on what they're supposed to do? That's what the charter commission's responsibility is. We're to go through the core of the charter and its responsibilities and propose how to bring clarity. I'm not interested in making the mayor stronger. The way she's going to be stronger is simply clarifying what her job is. You know, I mean, our mayor just won with an overwhelming mandate after February 2nd. It's pretty obvious that the city of San Bernardino wants their mayor to be able to be their leader and know what her job is. And that doesn't exist right now. I've heard it over and over and over again. So for me, and I'm politically very much to one side and everybody knows me, knows exactly what that is. Nothing personal. But in my world, I think we made a big mistake when we got rid of the elected attorney. No reflection on BB&K or the city attorney now. But an elected city attorney is a different level of what they can do. And it's set up by state law. It's not opinions. Second of all, we have a city clerk. I didn't even get along with her. I mean, I got along with her, but I really didn't have a whole lot of support for our last elected city clerk. BUT I'M LOOKING AT WHAT SHE DID. IT WAS PARADISE COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAVE. NOW WE HAVE AN APPOINTED CITY CLERK AND I'LL CLARIFY THAT IN CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS BECAUSE THERE'S SOME THINGS I'M GOING TO BE SAYING THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE WELL RECEIVED. OH, WELL. THAT'S NOT MY JOB. I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK SERIOUSLY AT HAVING OUR WATER DISTRICT AND NO REFLECTION ON MY COMMISSIONER OVER THERE. LOOK AT YUKAIPA WATER. MARK, YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT UKIPA WATER DIFFERENCES. THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS. YOU GO OVER TO EAST VALLEY WHICH IS MY CUSTOMER. I DEAL WITH ELECTED CITY. THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. I WORK WITH WEST VALLEY. I USED TO WORK FOR WEST VALLEY WITH THEM. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH BOARD MEMBERS FROM WATER BOARD. WE NEED TO STEP UP AND BE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE AND HAVE AN Because that's the way everybody else does it. San Bernardino, we just got to do it different. So please, Mr. City Attorney, within the time that's convenient for you, I would love to be able to understand exactly what the wording was from the city council when they started this commission in regards to what a strong mayor is or is not. So we have a solid thing going forward working on anything for the mayor. And I guess I'll quit now.

And I would just like to welcome, again, Mr. Lampe. We're glad to have somebody of your experience joining us, hit the ground running. We'll miss Cory, but excited to see where we can go from here. And I wanted to welcome my colleague, counsel, Mr. Maldonado, and congratulate him on his elevation to be the named city attorney of San Bernardino. We're not changing law firms. It's still Best Best and Krieger, but we haven't seen the named city attorney in many months, and this gentleman's been doing the job and in the trenches, and it's about time they put him on the letterhead. So congratulations, and we're glad you're with us tonight. The attorneys can disagree. They say that if there's one attorney in a town, that attorney has no business. And when a second attorney comes, both attorneys get busy. And Mr. Maldonado and I may have different perspective on an issue that affects this committee. But we had a cordial conversation and I know that we can work together and find the right legal answers and make sure that it's something that the courts will accept and the state will accept and the voters, most importantly, will accept. So, like Mr. Olson said, I do not favor changing the form of government to a strong mayor form of government. That's something that arguably we had at one time in this city, although I read a slide in the... MATERIALS THAT WE WERE PROVIDED FROM THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE WHICH ACTUALLY SAID THAT OUR PRIOR CHARTER WAS NOT EVEN A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE POWER WAS SHARED WITH THE CITY MANAGER. BUT WE WENT TO THE MORE TYPICAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT FOR SUBURBAN CITIES TO A COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND I THINK WE NEED TO STAY WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS. Points of contention are exactly what constitutes a strong mayor form of government and what constitutes a council manager form of government. And I intend to stay within the council manager in terms of our discussions and proposals. But there's ways that we can make the mayor a more effective leader on the council without involving the mayor in day-to-day administrative functions, without having the mayor supervise employees in city hall or interfere, which is the hallmark of the strong mayor form of government. So the citizens, I think, are frustrated that there's a lack of accountability, there's a lack of leadership in city hall, there's a lack of unity. And it's been true through numerous councils now and numerous city managers and more than one mayor. So it's something we need to address and that's what the proposals that we have discussed and decided to pursue address and that's the direction I think we should continue to pursue. So with that, we'll go on to the consent calendar and We have minutes for approval. Motion to approve. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed?

Okay, any abstentions?

All in favor except Mr. Olsen abstains. Okay. That brings us to the procedure for adding items to future committee agendas.

So at the prior meeting, there was a discussion regarding placing items on future agendas and what that process would be. So according to the bylaws, which is from Resolution 2018-275, which was adopted by the Mayor and City Council on October 3, 2018, as agenda item number nine. So under Article IV, meetings, Section 1, regular meetings, it establishes how items are actually placed on future council or future committee agendas. And the second paragraph reads, while the agenda is prepared by the staff liaison, additional items may be placed on a subsequent agenda, either at the direction of the chair, which would be Timothy Prince, or by the commission through a majority voted of its members at a regularly scheduled meeting. So in effect, if one of the committee members wants to place an item on a future agenda, you would have to make a formal motion, which would then have to be seconded. And a majority of the committee members would have to agree to it through a formal vote.

Point of clarification, Tim, as the chair, has the right to put things on the agenda in and of himself, correct? Correct.

Any other questions or discussion? OK. Mr. Albert.

Thank you. the reason that this item came about is i requested that the selection of a chairperson on the be placed on a meeting agenda because i felt that the present chairperson was not leading discussions with fairness and neutrality in past meetings i felt that the chairperson utilized his position as a bully puppet creating conflict by not allowing staff to timely participate in the dialogue and unfairly attacking committee members as well as staff. Don't get me wrong, I personally like the chairperson as an individual. However, I don't feel that it's the chairperson's place to continually utilize verbal calisthenics laced with sly innuendos aimed at individuals present and individuals not present. Those type of comments do not lend itself to engaging in constructive dialogue. We are here as a committee to review the city charter and to identify potential amendments that will enhance the council manager form of government. The position of chairperson is vital as an aid to achieve that objective. That individual should not act as a divisive force. So once again, I propose that... I'll make a motion that we place the item on the next agenda for the position to seek another chairperson.

Mr. City Attorney, is this the proper time in the agenda to entertain that motion?

Given that you already had a comments from committee members section, I'm used to seeing that at the end. Since you already went through that, I'm comfortable with any committee member making a motion to add a future committee agenda item now.

Do we have a second to that motion?

I'll second for the sake of discussion.

OK, discussion? I'll put in my word, I'm good at that. We had the city staff member read off what the city council voted and that is the rules we follow. The chair runs the meetings. This is not about the chair running the meeting or not running the meeting. If you want to add something to the agenda, that's fine. But don't do it when we're supposed to be discussing how things go on the minutes. Or how they go on the agenda, that's not, I mean the city attorney says it's legit, but come on now, let's actually stay on the topic. Because quite honestly, Tim acted within the rules. Now you may not like personalities, hey, a lot of people don't like my personality, but I'm still up here and can say what I want. If we want to have a discussion about how the minutes or the agenda is established, the answer is very simple. We follow the rules and guidelines that we are given by city council, end of discussion. Because we are not in a position to override the city council, despite some former commission members thought they could do that. We are here to follow what the city council and staff instructs us as far as the rules. Now, to go after somebody because you're not happy with what they did, okay, fine. You want to put that on the agenda, that's fine. I'll never support it, because that's not the way you run things. It's not a personality contest, because if it was, I'd lose. So my whole thing is, when it comes to this thing, let's at least try to work on the agenda. I mean, we can't put something on the agenda that actually helps the city attorney, the city mayor, or actually is in connection with the charter. We managed to miss that for now for how many months? SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT IT IS.

STATE ATTORNEY, CAN YOU CONFIRM THE CHAIRPERSON TERM FROM WHEN TO WHEN?

IT'S FOR ONE YEAR. BUT THE CHAIRPERSON, JUST LIKE THE VICE CHAIRPERSON, THEY SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE WHOLE COMMITTEE. SO I'LL GIVE YOU TWO DIFFERENT EXAMPLES. The motion that has been made is to make a permanent change for the duration of the term. And that is allowed by your bylaws to amend who is chair or who is vice chair for that one year period. The same is true for a given meeting. So the committee has the authority to appoint a different chairperson to run a specific meeting. You also have that authority. Does that answer your question? Do you have any more clarifying questions?

No, I like that response. But as far as the term, because I know the committee came back in effect in February, I believe, February or March. So is it from March to March, or is it just the 2026 calendar year?

So your bylaws say that officers shall be elected by a majority of the commissioners present at the first regular meeting in January. So if they're appointed in January, they serve until the following January. And if there's any changes that are made to the chairperson, they would still serve through January. And then there will be another election at that next January.

I would like to say something. Mr. Prince acted, I think, accordingly. We're not here to be liked or loved. We're here to do a job, and that's it. I'm sorry if people get offended. They don't like your character, your personality. It is what it is. We have to be straight. We have to be on it, and that's all that matters in my eyes. If you're strong enough to get the job done, then hey, power to you. If you're weak enough to just fly things another six, eight years, I'm sorry. I'm not going to be favoring that at all. That's it.

I would just like to add, yes, I agree. I did not like the way that that meeting was handled. I don't think it was in a professional manner. However, I don't want to lose focus. on the topic that we have, which is getting this charter better. I think we had a good discussion in the last meeting, and we came into some good topics. And I think we need to keep focusing on that, keep focusing on the community.

I agree with Andy. I think that we are making some forward progression. I think that everybody was a little excited, a little wanting to get their point across at that specific meeting. And voices did get loud. But I think we are back on track. I think that we can move forward as a committee. I think we can all work well together. I can't agree more with Andy. We need to keep our focus where it should be. And that's in making the changes on the charter, making some decisions. We've met how many times and we've not really made any decisions or any forward progress. We just keep talking about let's do this, let's do that. We have not really made any specific decisions that I can think of. And I think we need to get our focus back on what we're doing and just take it from there. We're halfway through the year and six more months. We can elect a new chairperson if that's what the committee chooses to do.

Anybody else? Mr. Albert. Yeah. Mr. Maldonado, can you give us an idea as to what your availability is going to be like in terms of attending these meetings, just so we have a better understanding of how often we're going to be able to see you?

Sure. I have a recurring conflicting meeting this day and time. So I have to navigate that. I chose to be here tonight. I wanted to be at this meeting. I can't commit to coming to every meeting. I'd like to if I can, it's just I have that recurring conflict. If you would consider changing your meeting day and time to a day and time where I do not have a recurring conflict, I could commit that to the committee. But as of right now, I think it's going to have to be month-to-month basis when I could be here and when could not. My intent is to be here as much as I can, but I just can't make that commitment for 100% of the time.

Thank you. And I do think that the chairperson did facilitate the last meeting well. And I expressed that to him. But I have yet to hear an apology from the chair as to how his behavior was towards the staff member that I think is certainly well-deserved and appropriate.

Anybody else? Well, I agree that the June special meeting was unfortunate. We were under some time pressure, and the city attorney's memo came out the day before our meeting. It didn't have any case authority or statutory authority, so I was concerned about that. We all read the memo. We had the opportunity to read the memo. The issue came up when it was time for the item to be debated and the city attorney wanted to speak first. And I denied the city attorney that opportunity because our city attorney had already written us a memo making the legal points, such as they were. And I pledged to everyone, including the city attorney, that they would get to speak before we voted on the item. That wasn't acceptable to the city attorney, and so there was a conflict to address Mr. Albert's concerns. In hindsight, I wish that I would have taken the city attorney out in the hall before the meeting to see if we could chat for a minute and maybe headed off that conflict, because I don't want those kind of conflicts to occur in our meetings, which are otherwise, I think, very cordial. Mr. Johnson is a longtime friend of mine, and we all have a lot in common in terms of our love and desire to improve this city. And I pledge to all of our committee members that you will be heard, you will have your time to speak. I think there was a suggestion made that the chair should not have an opinion. I think that's contrary to our rules of procedure. The chair can have an opinion. The chair tries to let others speak first and respects all the opinions presented. And that's my pledge to you.

Any further comments? Yes, with all that said, I withdraw my motion.

I appreciate that, Mr. Johnson. Okay, that brings us to the business tonight, which is our outreach plan.

At the prior meeting, the committee came to a general consensus of bringing back a list of various topics to include in a potential PowerPoint. So before you in the packet is a list of conceptual outline topics for a future PowerPoint. These are things that would provide first off an introduction. to the Charter Review Committee. So what is a Charter Review Committee, what their purview is, and what the committee hopes to accomplish during their PowerPoint presentation. It would include a background section on just city charter basics, because before you kind of jump into a discussion about what the city charter does, it kind of leads into, like, well, what is a city charter, and how is it distinct from maybe the municipal code? And then you would jump into the discussion of the city charter itself. So it's just a conceptual outline of PowerPoint topics. It is up for the committee to add, subtract, amend, restructure. and the way it kind of works is like each roman numeral is just basically like a major element you have your introductory element your background element and then probably the meat of the discussion which would be the san bernardino city charter itself every capital letter would be a powerpoint topic or a powerpoint slide so you would have potentially a slide on the form and structure of the GOVERNMENT FOR HERE, THE CITY OF SAN BERNARDINO, THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE COUNCIL, THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE MAYOR AND SO ON. AND THEN EACH ARABIC NUMERAL OR REGULAR NUMBER WOULD BE THE KEY POINTS OF CONTENT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS FOR EACH SLIDE OR EACH TOPIC. AND SO JUST TO KIND OF START THIS OFF, I JUST CREATED AN OUTLINE OF POTENTIAL TOPICS FOR THE COMMITTEE TO KIND OF review, revise, and then maybe once you have kind of came to a general consensus on what the topic should be, the next step would be to then determine what key points of information you want to cover for each topic. And one thing I would just kind of say is, you know, one of the important things for a PowerPoint is to be clear and concise. If you try to include everything, you might as well just reprint the city charter itself and hand it out and then read from that. So one of the key elements of a city charter for a PowerPoint would be to try to find a way to make it clear, concise, and informational, if that is the framework that you would wish to go towards.

Sounds like we've got some good PR advice, too. OK. Is it the pleasure of the committee to just go through the enumerated sections? Does anybody want to make some general comments before we start?

Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I was just wondering if the public has the slides that we're looking at, because it could be helpful to follow along with us. Is there any way you don't have a screen, how to put something up? Thank you.

Thank you.

That's sweet. While we're waiting, the introduction is the first section to introduce the Charter Review Committee. And the first point under that is what is the Charter Review Committee?

Do we have capability to turn on this screen right here or no?

I don't believe so. Or at least I don't have the access to do that. But for a future meeting, I can look into getting access to manning the computer and the LCD projector. Thank you.

Did you do this? Right on.

So do we want to have some comments under what is the Charter Review Committee? My thought would be we would say something like we're citizens who are appointed in an effort to review, improve, and adjust the charter to make it more effective.

Making a difference in our community is also a good one.

Making a difference in our community.

I think it's important that we also indicate that we have representation from each of the wards so nobody feels that this is all the north end or all the west side. I think it's important that we clarify that there is representation from all seven wards. And then we have two appointees from the mayor.

okay the purview of the committee is the next item uh tim i'd like to say something before we get started i have no problem with this process if we want to lay out how we're going to relate to the community but i have a huge issue with how we're approaching this we're putting the cart before the horse you want to establish how we're going to do community outreach And we, since we've met, have not come up with one single item we can do to improve the charter from day one. We had four items on the charter, but I guess when we voted to do nothing all the way up till 2028, those four items are no longer on our agenda. If you want to have something to take to the community, YOU HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING TO TALK COMMUNITY. I APPRECIATE WE HAVE A BRAND NEW GUY GIVING US AN OUTLINE. AND I'D LIKE TO GO HOME AND READ THE OUTLINE. BUT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DAY, THE OUTLINE IS JUST THE PROCESS. WE AS COMMISSION MEMBERS, IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE THE CONTENT THAT WE PUT TOGETHER AND OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT FIRST TO THE COMMUNITY OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR THEIR APPROVAL BECAUSE I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU I WILL NOT TAKE PART IN ANYTHING AS A COMMISSION MEMBER THAT HAS NOT GONE THROUGH MY CITY COUNCIL PERSON BECAUSE THAT'S NOT OUR JOB TO GO OUT AND HAVE THE COMMUNITY COME TO A CONSENSUS. OUR JOB IS TO BRING ITEMS. AND THAT'S WHAT EVERY COMMISSION DOES. THEY BRING THEIR OPINIONS ABOUT THE ITEMS TO CITY COUNCIL. WE'RE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. IT'S A NICE LAST LINE FOR HOW WE GET TOGETHER THESE ITEMS. WE HAD FOUR ITEMS. THEY'RE NOT ON THE AGENDA ANYMORE, WHICH MEANS WE'RE AT GROUND ZERO. AND BY THE WAY, WHEN IT COMES TO PR, I WORKED IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR YEARS FOR A WATER DEPARTMENT. SO I KNOW HOW COMMUNITY OUTREACH BECAUSE I WAS PAID VERY WELL TO DO IT. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO COMMUNITY OUTREACH AS A COMMISSION. IF WE WANT TO GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND SAY WE HAVE ITEMS XYZ THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO THE COMMUNITY, AWESOME. But we don't just say here, we as a commission want to go out and form our own little committee. Because quite honestly, as individuals, we can't speak in public on the community. That's the law. We don't represent as an individual represent the commission. Now we can represent our own personal opinion. That's our First Amendment rights. But we're playing with a very weird way of approaching things and like i said william here gave a great outline we want to follow the outline fine but we got to actually have something to put into it because you know what i want to if i want to write the charter i'm going to go to my city council person and say what do you like and what do you not like to make her job better i'm and i already have by the way i'm going to go the mayor and say mayor you're the mayor you've had to do this for four years what do you need to make your job easier And then I'm going to take what the mayor says, and I'm going to take that into consideration. But just to go out and do nothing since we reestablished this thing, have no solid topics, and all of a sudden we want to create a structure for how we go out to the community? We don't have anything to go to the community for.

Well, I don't think it was implied by the city manager, correct me if I'm wrong, that we have to abandon what we've already decided, AREAS THAT WE'RE PURSUING IN TERMS OF CHARTER AMENDMENTS. TERMS OF CHARTER AMENDMENTS. WE'RE JUST FOCUSING ON OUTREACH WE'RE JUST FOCUSING ON OUTREACH NOW AND I THINK THE CITY MANAGER NOW AND I THINK THE CITY MANAGER IS ALLOWING US TO FILL IN THAT IS ALLOWING US TO FILL IN THAT INFORMATION IN THIS OUTLINE. no longer focused or abandoning those concepts which were already adopted.

We can only focus on what we put on the agenda. And all of the items that we came up with and voted on, as soon as we voted that as a commission, we do nothing until 2028 as far as putting things on the ballot. That's exactly what we voted on. All of a sudden, those four items that we had brought up as a starting point, they're not on this agenda. And until you have real items on this agenda, how can you talk about reaching out to the community? You got to have a substance. I learned a long time when I was paid, if I would have gone out in the commissions, I want to have a meeting with the public, but I have no clue what I'm talking about. I haven't put it together yet. No, I have to put everything together. I have to permit it to my boss, present it. He has to approve it. And then I can go out based on the directions I'm given as an employee. I don't go out and create things on my own. I would have gotten fired if I would have done that. So as a commission, I have no problem with the proposal. But let's put some substance into it before we start talking about going to the community. Because if we can't put substance in there, there's no reason to go to the community.

It was my understanding that we are supposed to educate the community first and get feedback from the community so

constitute this change where does it show it in writing that that is the job of the charter committee it doesn't the charter committee is to present the items to the city council for their approval not to go out and lobby for stuff you think you want to do that's not if you want to do that go get elected as a city council member i didn't put myself on the ballot because i didn't want to do that i agreed to the commission because i was here to put together a package for my city council person to vote on. That's the responsibility of the commission. Now, at some point, if the city council wants us to go out and present the items that they've had a chance to review, wonderful. But let's do it in the right proper order and not jump to the public outreach as our primary goal. That's not a primary goal of any commission. And I'd love to see it in writing if it is. And I challenge anybody, show me where in writing it says, our job is to do outreach to the community. That's not what we're supposed to do here. That's not what the commission is assigned to do. Thank you.

I think Mr. Johnson's had his hand up.

Thank you. The Charter Review Committee is tasked with reviewing the city charter and providing recommendations on potential amendments that will enhance the clarity of efficiency and principles of the council manager form of government we chose the process of going out to the community and getting information to do that you know that's something that we as a body agreed on that's how we can do it now if somebody that's on the body don't want to do that that's up to them but that's as a whole body that's the process that we chose now to put some meat on it, as he says, it's really simple. You know, we got H, I, we can put I, potential items to be considered, and we can list the items that we think need to be considered, as well as ask, as we request from the public, their ideas, increase that list of items to be considered. So that's pretty simple, in my opinion.

Yeah, to give some perspective, the prior constituted charter review committee before the city manager shut us down had already made that decision to do outreach to the public. And we were really ready to launch that effort. So it's been decided by two committees now. And I think that's what gives us credibility is to not only agree amongst ourselves, but obviously we love and listen to the public input at our meetings, but that's too easy. We have to make the effort and go out to the public as well. So I think that decision's already been made, and I think Mr. Johnson's correct that we can integrate the changes that we've already made agreed to pursue to get that public input, whether those are things that the public wants to see. But they need a little background and knowledge about the charter before their opinions are meaningful and valuable. So that's part of our job, I think, is to get the public up to speed. What is our charter? What are some other options? And get their feedback.

That is correct.

Anything else on that?

Yes. I believe at one of our prior meetings, there was some discussion on what we had been discussing as far as the committee moving forward, the changes we wanted to make. And I thought we were going to get some kind of feedback from the attorney. Am I mistaken? There were some proposals that we had for discussion to put out to the voters. And I think we were instructed that some of the language perhaps needed to be modified for it to make it more. I'm sorry. The verbiage that we were using was not adequate, and it was not within our scope of what we as a committee were elected to do or appointed to do. So I don't know if that has anything to do with maybe some of the delay in the items to be discussed.

Well, I think there was a concern expressed that we don't want to tread into the realm of a strong mayor form of government. So perhaps when we consider these items, we should clarify that we're not giving the mayor administrative control or supervision of the city manager or anything else that would be the hallmark of a strong mayor. But yet, Every council makes decisions about who their leader is and what powers that leader has. And some cities, as I think everybody knows, the city council gets together and appoints somebody to be the leader of the council. And that's allowed under the general laws of the city. And a few charters have that approach. But an elected mayor is something that can happen under the general law or the charter cities. And what functions that mayor has is up to the rules of the body. So that's what we're addressing in our charter is we have an elected mayor. What is that mayor's leadership role on the council? And in the prior agenda item that we approved, The items that we were considering to get public input on were the mayor's office staff and funding, because currently the mayor has one person and some part-time help for a city of 200,000 people. The agenda access, which would allow the mayor as a matter of right under the charter to put an item on the agenda, the chief executive policy officer designation to give the mayor's policy role a title and the city manager nomination which would allow the mayor to do the search for city manager candidates bring a candidate or candidates to the council and then it would be up to the council to approve the nomination whereas currently we have eight people flying in different directions to try to recruit a city manager. And then line item veto, which would allow the mayor to go through the budget and veto specific items that could be overridden by the council. And finally, term limits, which would establish limits for the mayor and the city council. So those were the items that I think we had in mind getting public input on and should be integrated into our presentation after we make sure the public has a background on what our city charter is and what the parameters are.

Does that include the feedback from the city attorney's office regarding those proposals?

Well, I think that's an issue that we have to decide, and ultimately the council decides. If there's legal authority, that would prevent us from changing the mayor's leadership role on the council. But I think as of right now, we go by what our votes are and the decisions we've made, and...

Well, to your earlier assertion that we should be bringing the public up to speed on everything that we've decided, and now that that document is public record, the public can access it, it should be included in bringing the public up to speed as to what happens. I don't think that's a controversial thing, and it's consistent with what you were saying that We shouldn't be just focusing on what the past charter committee did, but we should be bringing enough to speed as to what has happened in the last several months that we've been meeting. That's totally appropriate.

Yeah, Tim, and I'll keep it brief. I hate to be Captain Obvious, but those agenda items, and they were good. They were a great start. Were they the end product? No. You know why? Because we never even had the chance to discuss them before they were voted out. We voted to do nothing. So these agenda items are not on the agenda. Tim's 100% correct. Second of all, when I first came in here, the first thing I said when I came into this meeting is, please, can we get the city attorney to give us in writing what the directive was from city council in regard to us and our ability to talk about strong mayor and then have a definition of what the strong mayor is for the point of discussion. THE POINT IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ITEMS DECIDED ON BEFORE YOU DECIDE ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GO OUT TO THE COMMITTEE, THE COMMUNITY. WE HAVE NOTHING AT THIS POINT SUBSTANTIVE EXCEPT WE WANT TO GO OUT TO THE COMMUNITY AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE CHARTER.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE, MR. OLSEN, THAT THE COMMITTEE DECIDED THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO AIM FOR THE 2026 BALLOT. The motion that was made reflected that. We had a split vote on it, and that decision has been made. We're looking at the 2028 ballot, but we didn't change the focus of what we're looking at. That wasn't part of the motion.

True, but we can't talk about it unless it's on the agenda.

I agree. I don't think our vote was to end that conversation with those six items. There were six good items there that I think are good for discussion. Our vote was to not rush it into the 2026 election and wait until 2028. It does not mean we're going to stop talking about it. I still believe we should talk about those six items. This outreach is, again, the last time the community heard about what our committee does was 10 years ago. So a lot of people do not know what our committee does. So going back and starting from scratch, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. let's come up with a good PowerPoint, explain to the community exactly what our charter does. And like Mr. Johnson said, we'll add at the end, we'll add those six items for discussion. That way we get the community involved with the six items that we're gonna be discussing from now till hopefully late 2027, early 2028. That way we make sure if we vote on anything, it's on the election.

William, is there any possibility that we could just add these items to the agenda going forward? And that way, if we make enough headway in our meeting, we can touch on those items. But if not, they can carry over to each agenda until they are addressed?

Yeah, that's certainly possible.

I will second that motion.

Not including the items was not meant to suggest that the items were like tabled indefinitely. My understanding of the last meeting was that the committee wanted to focus purely on putting together the PowerPoint or at least beginning the drafting process for the PowerPoint and the outreach plan. So the agenda was curated to have that type of focus. And if the committee wishes to maybe include those type of potential amendments as another element of the PowerPoint, you know, you have your introduction element going over just city charter basics as an element, the San Bernardino city charter, what it currently says as a major thematic element of the presentation. And if you want to end the presentation with a final element of potential amendments that the committee has kind of brainstormed, you could certainly include that in the PowerPoint. Or if you want to include maybe getting feedback from the community on what they think could be potential amendments, just based off your presentation and discussion with the community and any type of public outreach, that can certainly be incorporated in the PowerPoint as well.

So we can add it to our agenda, our monthly agenda, so that if we have time during the course of our meeting to touch on those items for discussion in addition to public outreach. And then if we have time, discuss some of these topics. And we can also add it to the end of the PowerPoint. Is that what you're saying? Yes. We can do both?

Yes.

OK, that way they don't fall off the agenda, they're not forgotten, and they remain there as a reminder. These are what we are hoping to focus on.

Yes.

Thank you.

Mr. Albert. The objective is not necessarily to forget about them. It's to include them in this presentation. Because what I fear is that if we talk about it at the next meeting, before we actually get the community buy-in or engagement on, then we're already making a decision before we actually talk to the community. So I would, again, prefer that we update the community on what progress we've made, including the proposed items. That's what we're going to be forthright with. uh and also including the city attorney's uh interpretation of where of where we're at just so that we're all on a level playing field because we have plenty of time in 2027 to really get into that but we have an opportune time between now and the end of this year to really get community buy-in right we're going to have we're going to have two of our committee members that are not guaranteed to be on this committee come to the end of this year. And so there's going to be a rotation on that. I would prefer that we not rush through that. I prefer that we put the community first in this process and really have them enlighten us on how to move forward.

I agree on that one. My first thing is educating the public. We need the public engagement in all our meetings. This is a small little portion. Council meetings is just as bad. So we need to upgrade. We need to educate them properly so they'll know what to say, what to do, and how to go about it.

Mr. Chair. If I may, I'd like to make a suggestion that I think may help here. In the outline that William put together, there's a section here for the form and structure of the government. I imagine in that section there's going to be a discussion about what is a council manager form of government, what is a strong mayor form of government. You've already received my legal memo. But I have heard some requests for additional clarity about defining the characteristics of a strong mayor system. I think it would be helpful to the committee if staff and I worked on a memo to you just on that very precise topic, the characteristics of a strong mayor system. THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT SO YOU CAN SEE THAT. I THINK THAT WILL HELP BETTER UNDERSTAND MY MEMO THAT I ALREADY PROVIDED TO YOU. BECAUSE ONE OF THE ISSUES IS YOU HAD, I THINK, SIX PROPOSALS. IN MY LEGAL OPINION, I THINK THAT THERE WAS LEGAL CONCERN THAT SOME OF THOSE PROPOSALS ARE NOT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMITTEE TO PUT THEM FORTH. but I'm hearing the need for additional information. And so if you allow us to work on that, then at the next meeting, we can provide a staff report to you that provides better clarity on that issue.

and i have one more point of clarification can we as a commission legally go in front of the public with proposed changes to the charter that have not gone through the city council for their opinion because what we're talking about here is creating a public outreach about what we want to do before it's approved by the city council. And my simple stance, and maybe I'm a little bit too wordy, but the simple reality is I'm not saying yes to any or no to any of this stuff. I'm saying flat out, we don't go to the public as a commission until we get the approval and the vote by the city council on the issues we're going to the public with. Because that's not how you do proper government.

my legal opinion i think that there's a distinction here to be made one is your work the work of this committee during these meetings and during these meetings i think you can talk about proposals for the mayor and council to consider as to going out to do public outreach i understand the desire the committee to supplement your work to study how to improve the clarity and efficiency of the council measure form of government and how going out to the public to educate them about the charter and asking them their opinion about potential members to the charter could be helpful to your work. In my legal opinion, I do have a concern about taking a specific proposed change to the charter to the public for their opinion and using public money for that. when the mayor and council have not approved that, have not approved the use of the public money to ask the public's opinion for a specific proposed change to the charter. And why is that? Because If without their permission, this committee goes out to the public, put something before them, gets an opinion, then goes to the mayor and council, the mayor and council could vote that down. and public money was used for that entire process. I think as a practical matter, the mayor and council should be able to evaluate a proposal and give that green light for staff time and public money to be used to go out to the public to seek their input on a specific proposed change. So that's my opinion.

Thank you, because you're actually covering my concerns with what I've been saying from day one. There's nothing wrong with going to the public. It's what you go to the public with and how you do it. And we are not paying attention to what the process has set out for us as commissioners to do with our discussions.

Mr. Johnson.

In your opinion, this does not preclude us from going out and just gathering the information.

correct it does not thank you mr. Johnson you asked the question so much more simply than I was gonna ask but that's that's the answer I wanted to hear so I think to tie all this together we can address topics that's what's on the agenda tonight is to talk about possible topics in connection with outreach and this is a topic but we shouldn't get too specific in terms of our proposal so That makes sense.

I move that we bring this back for further discussion when we actually have topics that we can bring to city council.

The motion is to bring this back when we have topics? I don't quite understand that. We have topics.

When we have topics to be approved by the city council that we can go out into the public and discuss, then But by all means, let's talk about it. Let's talk about the topics before we talk about what we're going to go out and do to the community. Because we're in some very shaky ground. And if I was listening to the city attorney right now, I would not want to be jumping into this. Because until you have the approval from the city council, it doesn't matter how much we talk or how much we think or how much we feel, we're going the wrong way. Even if it's the right thing to do.

Well, I think the process we're trying to follow is we want to have a good recommendation for the city council, one that is not just the people that have attended this meeting, but also something more broad. The council doesn't have time to focus on every business item in their purview. And so they created this committee to do the review. my opinion you can't do a review without knowing how the public feels why why are we here thank you i mean if we don't consider the public's opinion um we're not doing our job so um i'm not sure what the motion means because we do have topics that we've already decided to consider they're not um they're not set in stone they're not something that can't be changed but we need to bring them back and discuss them Well, if I could suggest a motion in line with what Ms. Briggs suggested that we include in future agendas the six topics that we've already considered as a focus of our inquiry into the possible amendments to the charter. And that way we're transparent. It's on our agenda. People know what we've done and what we're doing. And I think that would bring clarity.

And Ms. Rose, and I see some of your concerns, and I'm trying to look at it both sides, at the bare minimum, I think we have a good outline. The bare minimum, I think we should come up with a good PowerPoint. And even if we don't start going out and outreach with the community, let's place a good PowerPoint online. That way, at least our community could get educated as far as what our chapter, what our committee does. We could start there, because that could be done here in the next couple months. Before the end of 2026, we should have something online that the citizens go out there and see exactly what our committee does. then if we come up with some of these uh topics that we go discuss if you know get the the opinion from the community from the community we could do that but let's start somewhere just putting it off over and over and over and not getting anything done it's enough of not getting anything done let's get it done let's get a good powerpoint out for the community i have a question albert um is there any way they can put on the charter page on the city page like

our representative for our ward, if they want to communicate with us, if they want to give us messages, something of a communication channel that they can communicate with us personally if they need to by any chance or have any ideas, any review. Is it possible they can do that?

So it's not a legal question, but I'll try and answer it. I think it is possible, but staff needs to probably confer with IT on that. But my gut tells me that there is some way to do what you're asking.

I think it's something that it's a good idea. It's a good plan for them to reach out. But we do definitely need to educate them on what we do and why we are here, obviously. And what we need from them. So that can include that as well. If they have any questions, anything they want to touch bases with us about or need to know, that would be a great asset for us, for them, for all of us in concern.

Real quick to that point. As somebody who's active in the city, I have virtually every single phone number of the mayor and every single city council member. And I can tell you, if I want to know what's going on with my city council person or where she stands in or she wants me to know something, she's going to text me and she's going to call me. I'm already on top of it. So the mechanism is real simple. We all have a cell phone. You get a cell number and you start engaging with the person who appointed you. Then you know where they're coming from.

MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY. I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS A REQUEST I HEARD TO INCLUDE THE SIX PROPOSALS ON ALL AGENDAS GOING FORWARD. I WANT TO REITERATE MY LEGAL OPINION. OF THOSE SIX PROPOSALS, FOR THREE OF THEM I HAVE NO LEGAL ISSUE WITH THIS COMMITTEE DISCUSSING THEM. FOR THE OTHER THREE I DO. And let me just recite to you what they were. The first one was, and I'm just going to quote from what you had on the agenda, chief executive policy officer designating the mayor as the chief executive policy officer and requiring the city manager to submit quarterly policy implementation reports. That's one. Two, city manager nomination, granting the mayor sole authority to nominate a city manager candidate FOR MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL. AND THREE, LINE ITEM VETO. GRANTING THE MAYOR POWER TO VETO SPECIFIC LINE ITEMS IN THE ANNUAL FISCAL YEAR BUDGET. NOW MY LEGAL OPINION, WHICH I'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED TO YOU IN THAT MEMO, IS THAT ALL THOSE THREE PROPOSALS, IN MY LEGAL OPINION, are inconsistent with the council manager form of government. So my legal opinion is, if you want to have a lasting agenda item, is to limit it to the last three, which I have no legal issues with you discussing. And they are, one, mayor's office staff funding, funding dedicated staff explicitly for the office of the mayor. two agenda access allowing the mayor to place items directly on mayor and city council meeting agendas and lastly three term limits establishing term limits for both the mayor and members of the city council yes ma'am

Well, I think since we're going to have the benefit of your further analysis for the next meeting, I would support keeping all six on the agenda, and we can review that further input. We can evaluate the legal authority for it, and then we can make a decision on whether we want to change what we are focusing on.

I would suggest, again, focusing on what we came here for today is on the PowerPoint to get the community educated, keeping the three that you have no legal opinion or legal issue with, putting those for the next couple meetings so we could discuss those in detail. And then once we get your other information that you're going to provide next month, then we could add those down the line. We don't have to add all six. We're not going to discuss all six in one meeting. So we could break it down and do the three and then go from there.

I second Tim's proposal.

second what you gave a proposal to us to keep all six so they can be open for discussion and i seconded okay how about if we could compromise on having an agenda item without specifying the exact topics for the purposes of the next meeting and that way we we can consider the further input before we make a decision and we're not eliminating anything that's contrary to what we've already decided.

Can you clarify that suggestion?

So we would agendize for the next meeting topics for further study and proposals in accordance with what we've done in the past, but we're not going to enumerate them for the purposes of the next agenda. We're going to discuss that issue and evaluate the city attorney's input.

So the public wouldn't be able to know what we're going to be discussing? That seems a little cloak and daggers to me.

Well, we're just not specifying because I think the city attorney has a concern about those appearing on the agenda. So rather than enumerate them, we could just put the topic on the agenda and discuss it from there.

I just want to say that I have strong reservations about discussing any kind of issues, especially when we have two potentially outgoing committee members by the end of this year, to give them any kind of sway or influence over the process when we know that there's going to be two new council members in their place. I'd rather focus again on the community engagement, focus on the presentation, Again, continue to keep the public up to speed as to where we are, what we've talked about, what we discussed, what the legal interpretations are. But I have strong reservations of going into policies of a charter committee that will be different come early 2027. That, to me, doesn't seem democratic to me.

PLEASE ALLOW ME TO REMIND SOME OF MY FELLOW COMMISSION MEMBERS, WE ARE APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL WHO IS ELECTED. THE INCOMING CITY COUNCILPERSONS, REGARDLESS OF WHO THEY ARE, ARE THE ONES WHO WILL MAKE THE CHOICE WHETHER ANYBODY DOES OR DOES NOT STAY ON THE COMMITTEE. SO TO SAY YOU WANT TO PUT OFF AND NOT DO SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE MAY BE A NEW ELECTION, MAYBE I'M HERE, MAYBE I'M NOT. YOU DON'T KNOW. So to say we're going to make decisions on something we don't know, I'd be careful about that. Because I could say the same thing to Casey in several contexts, but I'm not going to say that. Because Casey has to go to the city council person, or the city council person goes to them and says, hey, we want you to continue. Because none of you on the dais know who's going to get elected and who they want to support.

Mr. Chair. Mr. Johnson. Once again, I'd just like to thank them for this outline. And I would love for us to focus on the outline. And at least get this portion together. The six items, you can bring back any time for discussion. They don't have to be on the next agenda. We can have a meeting in October and say we want to talk about this in November and put it back on the agenda. So I don't think we should waste our time just by saying when we need to put that on there. But I would suggest with this outline, Section 3B through H, that we all do a little homework and put our top three items on here, and then we come back at the next meeting and at least have a discussion and drill down on how we like it to flow once we have a discussion among all of us.

I think that's a good suggestion. Do we want to finish the introduction part and then maybe we can call it a night and come back next month and start from there?

I think this should be a homework.

Homework assignment?

Yes. I do. Once again, I want to thank you for that. I think this is going to be a great asset to the community. I will put my notes on it as well to see what we can and cannot do or what I think is best. Everyone's going to view their opinion and we're going to agree and disagree. That is the way it is. But we do need to come to a safe conclusion where we're actually addressing the items that are necessary to the public so we can get the matter fixed. I don't want to play ball anymore. It's too much. We need to get things done. And so by prolonging this, it's just not going anywhere. And believe it or not, I see potential here, a lot of potential with this PowerPoint. This is a draft, right?

Yes, it's just a conceptual draft. It was just as a springboard to hopefully help facilitate a discussion.

Online is the best way to get this message across. Everyone's on their phones. We can't seem to get away from the phones. So let's publicize it online, on tube, anywhere that they can see it. Maybe billboards. I don't know. But yes, I think it's time that we start getting all this aligned up and what we're here to do, period. You know, I'm one of the persons here that my time is precious. I'm here only to make a difference for my people. If I can do something, I'm going to do it. And if not, then I walk away. So we need to get this settled once and for all and get them involved so we can get our job done correctly. Right? Thank you.

Mr. Albert. Can we get an update on the timeline for when the survey, are we going to do a similar process for developing the survey as well?

So my understanding was from the last meeting, the committee wanted to finalize what the content of a PowerPoint was before jumping to a survey. I thought from reviewing the meeting from the last month, the survey was going to be more specific about potential charter amendments or the charter members that were previously discussed. And my understanding was to focus on the outreach first in terms of education.

Is this going to be televised on the Spectrum channel, the PowerPoint? It should.

I would have to look into how we would want to move forward with that. But it would be something that we can potentially do to do a PowerPoint presentation during the Charter Review Committee meeting itself, which does get televised on Channel 3 during this time frame, and then also posted on YouTube.

OK, good.

If I may finish, I just think it would be helpful that when we do have the PowerPoint presentation, we go out to the community and have these meetings, that it would be helpful to have some kind of feedback survey related to how the town hall or the meeting went related to the charter. That way we're getting real time feedback from the community as to what's working, what's not. That way we're staying on par with what the needs of the community are.

Are you talking about a meet and greet? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sorry. Yes. Are you talking about a meet and greet with the public?

Well, I remember we talked at the last meeting that we're developing this PowerPoint not just to slap on online and say, public, look into it. We're hopefully bringing this PowerPoint directly to the community, hopefully having at least one public meeting related to this. And all I'm suggesting is that we include some kind of feedback survey that kind of just tells us what the receptiveness of the attendees were to help guide us continuing going forward. That wouldn't be a bad idea.

Who pays for the survey?

At the last meeting, I thought they said they were going to ask the city manager's office to cover some of our expenses.

So at the last meeting, there was a list of, I believe, six potential public outreach components. I still need to confirm with the city manager on what would be feasible. In terms of the cost for a survey, it would also depend on the nature of the survey and how it would be basically advertised. If you're talking about like a water bill insert survey, that's gonna incur a cost about $5,000. If you're talking about having maybe, if you go to like a neighborhood association meeting and you give a PowerPoint presentation to educate the community about the city charter, and you had like a QR code that they can just scan with their phone and then submit feedback right after that community, that neighborhood association meeting, you can easily do something like that with a Google survey, Google Docs type of thing, which would have really no cost except for staff time. And that would be a survey that wouldn't have to necessarily be very complex, but that'd be something that maybe the committee would like to develop and have some type of approval on in terms of what the language or questions of that survey would be.

I see a lot of potential with that, and I think it's a wonderful idea. that we get out there and they possibly know who the commissioner is for their award. How many people know who the commissioners are? They barely know the council members, let alone the commissioners. So I think it's time that they meet the team, meet and greet the team, so they know who we are and what we're all about and what we're trying to do, not just hide us under the blankets, per se. And therefore, we are also a team of the council, so we also need to be included with our decisions in every aspect there is.

I'd like to finish this outline and get the education out there before we do the survey. So it could be available on the city's website. It could be communicated to residents. And they'll have a framework to do more inquiry and research rather than just a survey. I think if you're going to do more than one survey, you could do a survey now. But you'd be basically limited to what are your frustrations as it relates to San Marino City government. I mean, the public doesn't have, the people here have a framework to put it in. And 5% of the public that follow closely might have a framework. But the rest of the public, whose opinion should be just as valuable, need to have that education and background, I think. They don't even know what a charter city is. And they think that we're still in a strong mayor formal government. And they need some context before their opinions are the most valuable. So let's get this done at the next meeting, hopefully. And then we can talk about surveys and other ways that we can outreach.

I agree. I just hope that over time you realize the importance of having that feedback, you know, as soon as possible to after the meetings because we can go through the process of having these town hall meetings and we get their feedback, but then people go home and they do, you know, they get busy and then it's lost in translation. We need that immediate feedback as to what was the pros of, what was the benefits of having that feedback, what did you learn from it, How would you improve it? We need that in real time rather than later down the road. So I just implore committee members to see the significance of the PowerPoint and the survey acting in concurrence.

OK. Do we want to finish the introduction part tonight, or do we want to cut it there? OK. We have one yes. How about the others?

Yes.

OK. So I think we had some comments on what is the Charter Review Committee. Anything further on that? We want it to include all wards. We want it clear that we're trying to make adjustments and improvements to the charter, that perhaps it should be communicated that, Cities that don't do that get into trouble. And I think that's where San Bernardino got into trouble is we had a 100-year-old charter that we hadn't kept up with. We hadn't continued to revise. And so we want to prevent that from happening. The purview of the charter committee, I think we've had some discussion on that. Any comments on that? I think we probably need to explain that under a council manager form of government, which is the limits of our purview, the city manager supervises city staff, appoints department heads, operates without interference from individual members of the council or the mayor. That the city manager's in charge of the day-to-day administration and business. The council is in charge of the policy. So our purview is to make recommendations within those parameters to help the city manager better supervise, to help the council make better policy, to make sure the council is properly led and is the most effective it can be. Anything else on that? The final item of introduction is what does the committee hope to accomplish?

A more efficient form of government.

I think we've got to be clear that in terms of where the consensus is of the current committee is we want to develop ideas to improve upon the council manager form of government. AND THINK OF IDEAS TO POTENTIALLY PUT ON THE BALLOT IN 2028, RIGHT?

I AGREE. I ALSO AGREE WITH MS. BRiggs. THE TWO WORDS I LOVE ARE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT. BECAUSE EFFICIENT INCLUDES A LOT OF THINGS. IT INCLUDES FINANCIAL, IT INCLUDES MAKING SURE THE PUBLIC'S HEARD, THAT THE BUSINESS IS HANDLED EXPEDITIOUSLY, THAT CONCERNS ARE ADDRESSED EXPEDITIOUSLY, ET CETERA. I personally, I'd like to strengthen accountability. I think a big concern of the public is they're frustrated and they don't know who to hold accountable under the current wording of the charter. And there's a lot of people that really like the mayor but are really frustrated. There's people that don't like the mayor because they think the mayor should accomplish more. I think if you read the slide show that the city manager was nice enough to include that the prior charter committee used 11 years ago. The hope was that this new charter would build consensus with the council so that the mayor and council would work together kind of like happens in Irvine or Redlands or other places. where you have nice civil discussions in a more academic way, that you could have a focused set of goals, and everybody's pulling their oar. And I think the only way to analyze that is that has been a total failure for 10 years. I don't see any other way to view things. Some people want to just blame all eight people as bad people that can't work together. or they want to blame certain of the eight people. I think it should be our goal to see if we can help in that process, if we can make adjustments that help them accomplish something. So eliminating dysfunction, encouraging public input, and avoiding what happened with the previous charter. that it goes without review for long periods of time. So I think that's what we hope to accomplish.

And I like what you said, too, about encourage consensus building, right? Because that's obviously important in adding to that. Absolutely.

Response. Any kind of response. I've had no response to this . cut Frontier's phone lines working on Second Lake. The mayor's tried to respond. Do you think I've had anything from Public Works or from the city manager? Nothing. Zero. I have five radio stations. If you don't respond to me, because I can get on the microphone and do it, I can get one in my three minutes. I have 5,000 watts one, 10,000 watts the other. I'm sorry I'm speaking right now. I'm out of turn. I know I am. But I'm angry at this city because there's been no response. Anything you guys do in your charter review is to put an audit on the city manager and public works on that end of it so they respond to the public. Otherwise, they're just civil works employees that they just sit back and collect their salary.

We hope you come back next month and talk some more about that because that's very important. I mean, when you have the council manager, former government, and there's no identified other leader, I think it gets lost in the shuffle. Well, she has one staff member, too. Okay, anything else on what we hope to accomplish?

Since we gave Mark some time, I'd like to make a request to him. I encourage you, if you've got a radio station that can get people more involved in the process in San Bernardino so we can get some feedback, do it.

And remember the public is my responsibility sometimes to have freedom of speech in business

Mr. Lampe, is that something that city manager's office can address one-on-one?

69 days offline, though.

It was something I'll have to raise with him. Yeah.

Let me address a question to legal counsel. Is there a way we can structure our meetings consistent with the rules so that we can have more back and forth with the public?

You can allow more public comment. We had one public comment period. You can have more than that. It's up to your discretion as the chair because the chair decides that. If you want to allow more public comment, what I'd recommend that you do is to announce that you're going to allow more public comment, direct the public to fill out an additional speaker card, and then allow them one at a time to give their comments if you wanted to do that.

So maybe we need to think in advance if there's items we want to have more discussion with the public so it's fair. I think all the points that have been made are good.

You know, I love what just happened. And yes, it was inappropriate. She's right. Sometimes when you get inappropriate, you do it. As a commission, we let the public speak first so we know what they say. But after the public sits here and listens to us for two hours, a little feedback wouldn't hurt.

I'll give you one more moment, Mr.

Chair. One minute. I sat on the Parks and Rec Commission for eight years, and these commission meetings were much different at that time. We actually had discourses back and forth and encouraged members of the public. We didn't limit them to three minutes. We invited them and encouraged them to come. We have a lot of members today here of the community. Now, I guarantee you that won't happen all the time, and you should welcome.

I feel really lucky that we've had a consistent level, not a huge level, but a consistent level of public input at just about every meeting. Because I remember the charter committee 11 years ago, sometimes I was the only person sitting in the audience. So we appreciate you. And Miriam, would you like to have a minute?

I would love to have feedback and what the manager just said.

I WANT TO GIVE A WARNING TO ALL OF YOU.

WE HAVE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY THAN CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE

We don't have 100 people in the audience, so we would like to include the public more, I think.

Yeah, I want to give the public a warning from personal experience. 20 years ago when we got ourselves into all of this where we started it, I used to speak at city council. I'd have three minutes public speaking and three minutes for every single issue and three minutes for any kind of review. I'd speak 12 and 15 minutes in a city council person. NOT TO BRAG, BUT I THINK I'M ONE OF THE REASONS THEY ONLY HAVE THREE MINUTES IN THE FRONT NOW BECAUSE I TOOK ADVANTAGE OF IT. SO, YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE FEEDBACK AND THE DISCOURSE BECAUSE AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO STARTED OUT GETTING INVOLVED AND LEARNING WHAT WENT ON IN CITY COUNCIL, I WOULDN'T SHUT UP. I'D BE THERE EVERY SINGLE TIME. AND I STILL DON'T SHUT UP. I MEAN, THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

You weren't the only one. There was a guy named Jeff Wright that wouldn't shut up, too.

I love Jeff Wright. He was my inspiration, and I chased him down to where he currently lives, and I sent him a message on Facebook, said, dude, I want you back. Or at least come and tell me how you did it, because, you know, I will tell you in all honesty, I probably spoke 500 to 1,000 times at city council within three minutes at a time.

Chair?

Yes.

Just getting back to... So... just getting back uh number three uh if mr johnson would indulge me there is a gentleman in the back that's had his hand up for some time if we could just give him one minute certainly

Go to the podium so we can all hear you.

Hello. So I, too, am traditionally a rule breaker, given that I'm with some of my work colleagues. I'm trying to be my best behavior. So I have not done that. However, I don't remember who it was that said that we're going to listen to us, you're going to speak for two hours, and then we get a chance to speak when we come back. I'm not going to remember what... I thought, felt, or considered at that moment. I don't know if this is the right time either. That's why structure would probably be important to address the things I did want to say. I'm kind of biting my tongue. I'm jumping up and down. This is something serious. Do want to kind of mention, I'm not so sure why the strong opposition to a strong mayor, whatever that may be, that seems to be a consensus here. As someone who's coming from a city that had a very strong mayor who was almost the local governor, it was a very well-run city because of there was no, I have to ask this everybody else for permission. It sounds to me, as a member of the public who apparently you guys want to reach the public, here I am, you're arguing the rules on changing the rules is what I'm getting from a lot of this. um also discussing finances as a member of the public i think an expense on informing me is quite valid and i think the person who said i think actually it was you mr chair that said who is the public the five percent i think you're more likely referring to two percent that present an active interest in getting involved in community because ninety percent eight percent of the community is probably not I'm the public, and I think I've had the, just because I've been an organizer before, I've had the benefit of working with the trades folks as well as the academic folk, and they have very different interests and concerns and motivations. Simply posting something on a website is not going to reach everybody, because why would I care to look at it in the first place? It's boring. I need this to be exciting. I need to care about this. I need to know how it's going to affect my family, my kids, my school, my job, my taxes, and my safety. So again, I don't know if this is the right time or not, but I've been jumping in my seat for a while, and I don't know when I was going to get another chance to speak, and I'm taking advantage of it. I appreciate it. I would like to mention, I like the fact that we could speak at the beginning. If I'm allowed to, I'd like to make a request that we can all speak at the end.

I was just going to mention that I am all for listening to the public and what they have to say. But in order to keep some kind of structure to the meeting, I believe that instead of just speaking out from your seat, you should come up to a podium, announce yourself. That way you're also on recorded on the video. That would be my recommendation.

If we could, oh, we do have a gentleman that has not spoken yet. If we could give him one minute. State your name, sir.

Thank you very much. My name is James Smith. I moved here in 1944, a few years ago. I've seen the city change a lot, but I know there are many, many years it worked very efficiently here in the city. of San Bernardino. We're all America City. We've got to bring that back. I want to first of all compliment the city attorney for taking the time to be here tonight and congratulate him as a permanent city attorney. Thank you so much for being here. And I wanted to also compliment the complete board here for agreeing to have Mr. Prince continue as your chairman. for his term, and then you can make a decision at that time. And I think that's a professional way to handle that, and I'm a professional. I was a stockbroker. I'm a past president of the Native Sons of the Golden West, and I preserved in preserving the history of this wonderful city of San Bernardino. And I'm just so glad this charter committee is meeting. And I think you deserve a round of applause for taking the time to do it. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, Mr. Johnson.

Thank you. Just on number three, I think we're be good to go back to the background and at least add that portion in there as part of it says to review the city charter and provide recommendations on potential amendments that will enhance the clarity, efficiency, and principles of the council manager form of government. That would be a good start on what we like to accomplish.

Could that be under introduction A, number two, the purview?

Not that, too.

Yeah.

I think that's where it belongs.

OK. That brings us to item two, which we'll start with at the next meeting. And if we could also agendize, Mr. City Manager, a discussion of ways to include the public comments. Some alternatives that come to mind are restoring the ability of the public to comment on each agenda item, like used to be the case for decades after the Brown Act was passed in San Bernardino. As Mr. Olsen mentioned, you were given three minutes on each agenda item, not just at the beginning. Another way would be what was mentioned tonight would be to put it at the end in addition to the beginning. That would be an alternative. To me, that's not quite as helpful, because if the member of the public says something really earth-shattering at the end, it's too late for us to do anything. It should be in connection with the agenda items.

Well, not necessarily, because you can still, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. City Attorney, but you can still change an action as long as you don't adjourn the meeting. During the same meeting, you can still make a correction, right?

Can you help me understand your question?

So to the chairperson's thoughts that if someone from the public spoke at the end of the meeting and the meeting had not been adjourned, we would still be able to go back and amend an action taken at that meeting.

Yes, you can. You can go back and discuss anything that was on the agenda. And you can revisit any vote taken so long as you're in the same meeting.

Would you agree, Mr. City Attorney, that that wouldn't be the preferred method to structure meetings where you're reopening things on a regular basis?

I think that's a fair statement, yes. And we can present, I'll work with William, we can present some options to you for how to structure public comment. I have a few ideas in mind for different ways you can do it. And then the committee can consider that and make a decision for how you want to operate moving forward.

Mr. Chair, I think Miriam had something to say.

But I think, you know, the gentleman just raised a great point.

I think that, you know, there is no formal education on what a charter does and how a charter is being ruled or governed. And I think for him, right, he has an experience of a strong mayor city and he feels like that was great. San Bernardino is a whole different thing. Like I personally believe that we are good with the strong city managers, strong council body, right? But I think that's exactly what you guys are gonna be getting out there in our community once you guys do these community engagement sessions and have this feedback, right? You guys are gonna hear from the public and you guys are gonna get to have more understanding of why the community believes and feels the way that they do, right? Is it from experience? Is it from a feeling? Is it from a legal perspective? I think you guys are gonna be able to really see all of that and

I also agree like the public the reason why you guys should do that you guys should always invest in us the public and our knowledge and our understanding yes you guys are here to serve the council but you guys are also part of the community and as commissioners and representative of the community you guys are here to represent us the community at large as well so um yeah thank you thank you yeah I think we're here to serve the public first not any politician

Okay, anything else for tonight?

Can we get clarity from the city attorney as to his availability and maybe adjust our meeting schedule accordingly?

Adjusting the meeting schedule is not on the agenda. If you want to consider that, I recommend that you put that on the next month's agenda. And I will do everything within my power to be here with you next month if I can. I'll let you all know in advance. That way you can make a decision if you want to proceed with a meeting with someone else in this seat or if you want to postpone until a time that I can come. I'm open to that.

Okay. And could I also make a request that any legal opinion that we are going to have for the benefit of the next meeting be circulated at least a week in advance of the meeting?

Sure. I can commit to that. Appreciate that.

Anything else for tonight?

I'm confused.

Did you guys come to an agreement or a consensus on what you're going to do with the dialogue with the public? Because, you know, communications is a two-way medium, transmitter, receiver. This is good public outreach to give us the ability to speak on each agenda item as it comes along, three minutes. It may take a little bit of time, but this is the place, this is the level it should happen. This is not a city council meeting. This is a commission meeting as in committees. So people can talk back and forth, communicate back and forth. I think you should decide tonight to be able to do that.

I just think we don't have it on the agenda. So we're limited by the Brown Act. That's one thing that does apply to us. The Brown Act sets minimum standards that we have to follow for notifying the public in advance of any decision we make. So I think we'll probably be able to do that at the next meeting, but not tonight.

DO WE HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION TO PUT ON NEXT MONTH'S AGENDA?

I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT.

YEAH.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORD THAT FOR OUR CITY MANAGER OR MAYBE HE HAS IT IN HIS MIND ALREADY?

You can do it on your own.

Well, yeah, I can do it on my own, but it's better if we all agree on what the exact agenda item would be. I'd recommend making the official motion, just for the record. Okay. Do you have a suggestion in that regard, or you want Mr. Garcia to- Can we just take a consensus instead of a vote?

A consensus, sure, but we need to know what we're- Let me help with this. What about a discussion item to discuss? THE FORMAT AND FREQUENCY OF PUBLIC COMMENTS GIVEN AT THE MEETINGS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE.

SO MOVED. DO I HAVE A SECOND?

SECOND.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. ANYBODY OPPOSED? ANYBODY ABSTAIN? OKAY.

Do we need a motion on the proposed idea about getting availability for future meetings or scheduling future meetings?

I suppose we should put that on the agenda. Why don't we just do it this way? I will request that issue be on the agenda for the next meeting.

I think the more we can work with the city attorney to get here so we can go through, because we have a lot of illegal issues. It's too easy for us to take the wrong direction. So we really need to have him here, and if we can work with him and make a few accommodations, absolutely we should do it.

Maybe bring him dinner.

And thanks again to everybody for being so generous with your time. It's 8 o'clock. Do I have a motion to adjourn?

I had a quick question before we adjourn.

Second.

Are we adjourned? No. Oh, OK. Ricky. I withdraw the second until she gets done. You wanted us all to come back with some recommendations to the PowerPoint slides, correct?

Yeah, that would be good.

OK, so just a reminder, that is our homework from Mr. Van Johnson.

Especially on item three.

Yes, to all come back with fill in the blanks.

And that's just item three, B through H, because the city attorney is going to be doing that.

Okay, so I think we have a motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Abstain. Have a great night, everybody.