Planning Commision - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you. It is 6:00 p.m. The April 6, 2026 session of the City of Oaklair Plan Commission is called to order. If anyone in our audience wants to speak tonight, please complete a public hearing contact form located on is it on the back table tonight or at the front desk? Uh, and give it to one our planners at the front table. I ask that everyone turn your cell phones off or to silent mode. I will call tonight's attendance role. Commissioner Brewster

here. Commissioner Davis here. Commissioner Ericson here. Commissioner Hollesman here. Commissioner Lawson here. Commissioner Leonard here. Commissioner Reid here. Commissioner Zoy here.

And Commissioner Helguson is here. We have a uh full load of nine commissioners here tonight. Good to see. Uh I will read our standard introductory language for how we conduct business at our meetings. During tonight's meeting, plan commission members will be participating in person to deliberate and take action on the agenda items before us. The plan commission attempts to conduct its public hearings in a relatively informal manner within the constraint that we must deal with the issues before us in an orderly and business-like fashion. We give the applicant an opportunity to speak first and then others are each permitted to speak either for or against the proposal. We do request that everyone restrict their comments to the issues before us, avoid unnecessary repetition, and be prudent in the use of time. We want to be sure that we have adequate time to deal as carefully with the last items on the agenda as with the first. If you wish to view, but not comment at tonight's meeting, it can be viewed through the live event link on the city's homepage under public notices and meetings. This meeting is being recorded at the same location. We will move on to tonight's agenda. Uh item number three, which is uh our open public comment period for those agenda items that do not appear on tonight's agenda as a public hearing. Agenda items five, six, and seven are public hearings, and we'll have a comment time as part of each item. Agenda items nine and 10 are discussion among commissioners only. Agenda item four, our consent agenda and agenda item eight, a public discussion are open for public comment at this time. Is there anyone here wishing to give public

comment on agenda items four or eight or any other comments not related to tonight's agenda? If so, please come forward. Anyone that would like to speak on items four or eight or any other uh issues that are not on today's agenda, please come forward. Can you state your name, address, and spell your last name? Um, is this on? Sorry. Yeah, it is. Yes.

Okay. Uh, my name is Rachel Schulty. S H U L T. My address is 222 Water Street, Oakclair, Wisconsin 5370 or 54703. And did do you just need my name and my address? You spell your last s S C H U L T. Yes. Schulty. Yes. Yes. Thank Thank you.

Okay. Hello. Uh my name is Rachel Schulty. I am a resident of Oaklair and a social work student at the University of Wisconsin Oakclair. I'm here today to urge you to support legislation that would exempt menstrual products from taxation in our city. As of July 2025, 18 states still charge sales tax on these products. Unfortunately, Wisconsin remains one of them. As a local legislator, you have the power to lead the way by supporting exemption of these items. In my role as the student health and wellness director for student senate at the University of Wisconsin Oclair and as a future social worker, I have a dedicated interest in this issue. I have seen firsthand how it specifically affects students at university at the University of Wisconsin Oakclair and I am concerned about how the lack of access will continue to impact our community's overall well-being if no legislative change is made. Eliminating tax on menstrual products is a vital step toward ending period poverty, which is the inability to afford or access menstrual products, sanitation facilities, and education. This is a widespread issue affecting all areas of Wisconsin as well as Oaklair. And menration is often treated as a choice or a luxury when in reality it is a biological process. When we fail to provide affordable access, we turn a biological function into a social crisis um for constituents trying to maintain their health and dignity. While organizations like the United Nations Woman recognize period poverty as a global crisis, it remains taboo, a taboo topic in many legislative circles. This hesitation to address the issue results in real world accessibility barriers for the people that you represent. Much of the argument against these exemptions centers on state revenue. Opponents, including some tax policy groups, argue that eliminating these taxes reduces essential funding and that because these products aren't

used by everyone, they should be categorized as luxury goods. However, there is nothing luxury about a basic a basic health necessity. The burden of this tax disproportionately affects our most vulnerable neighbors. According to the Hope Gospel Mission, an estimated 733 individuals experiences experience homelessness homelessness each year in Oaklair and that number rises each year. While we may not have the exact data on how many of these individuals menrate, we know that for those who do, the cost of these products is a significant barrier to hygiene and health. Currently, two in five menrating people struggle to purchase supplies due to lack of income. Chances are we each know someone who has experienced this need. A classmate, a neighbor, a co-orker, or a friend. By taxing these items to generate revenue, the state ignores the financial hardship placed on its citizens. The consequences are farreaching. A lack of bas basic necessities puts the physical, mental, and economic well-being of individuals at risk. No one in our city should be forced to use socks or wads of toilet paper because they cannot afford the products they need to get through the day. By eliminating tax on menstrual products, you would be removing just one of the many barriers that stops people from accessing products. Removing tax is about fairness and addresses gender-based economic disparities of Oaklair residents. It would make accessing me menstrual products easier and ensures that no adult would have to miss work, no student would have to miss school, and no person would miss out on daily life because they are unable to afford the basic necessities they require to thrive. It would show that US city council members care about the health necessities and overall public health of Oaklair residents. To wrap it up, period poverty is a systemic problem that requires a policy solution. You have an opportunity to take an actionable step today. I urge you to introduce or support legislation that removes the sales tax on these basic necessities. It is a simple and effective way to make life more

affordable for those who need it. Um yeah, and I have uh some sheets that provide more information. Thank you for your time and for your commitment to the well-being of Oaklair. Thank you. You could pause there. Staff can help me out here. Is is this an appropriate issue for this commission? Yeah, it's open public comment period. So anything can be spoken. Okay. Yes. But if if would like to see it on a future agenda, does this be a city council policy type thing? Okay. Yeah. Are you planning to go to the next council meeting?

Yes. Is there one tomorrow? Next Monday. Next Monday. that appropriate forum. Okay. For an item like this rather than commission more site development and things like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought that on the city council website it says that um Monday nights before council meetings that you do a public comment period and that it happens on every second t or second Monday of each month. And it's the second month of um or the second week of April.

No, this is the first Monday of April. This is when the plan comm the the council has their uh public forum on the Monday nights before the council the official council meeting on Tuesday. Okay. So, whenever that next the second Monday night, the 13th 13th is when you would want to come and give your testimony to the council and then they will vote they will vote on the what they've heard the following days. Would that be correct, Mr. Brewster? Commissioner Brewster. Or people can just bring bring uh items to our attention as as you've done. Yes. Okay. Perfectly suitable use for that time as well.

Okay. Thank you. that. So basically 6 6 p.m. Monday. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Anyone else that would like to comment tonight? Agenda items 48 or any other comments uh for items not on the agenda tonight? Anyone else that would like to comment during the open? Come, come forward, sir. Thank you. State your name, address, and spell your last name.

My name is Daniel Sheay. S H EA and I live at 646 Putnham Drive and the planning committee sent me a letter somehow concerning my lot size. I don't know if the the letter you sent me you'd like to see. Um, staff, could you take a look at the letter or

Yeah, this is on the agenda for item number uh coming up on Harding Avenue. You must live on Putnham Drive, correct? Yeah. The city owns some uh this university actually owns some parcels that we're reszoning to public to maintain open space. Okay. So, who own who will own that land? The university still. Okay. Are they going to do a survey and and mark it? You know, probably not. Okay. Thank you. So, this will Mr. Petri, what item would this fall under? Uh, that's item number six, I believe. Okay. Sir, you'll have an opportunity to come back when we get to item six. Okay.

Yes. Okay. Sure. Uh, anyone else that would like to speak tonight on items 4, eight, or anything else uh that's not on the agenda? Seeing none, we will close uh the public comment period. Um and we will move on to our consent agenda. Item number four. Uh to tonight, our consent agenda has four sub items, all described on our agenda. The public comment period for the consent agenda was offered during item three and has now expired. The entirety of the consent agenda will be acted upon by a single vote. Are there any commissioners that have questions, comments, or would like to see any of the four sub items removed from the consent agenda and placed on the regular agenda? Commissioner Brewster.

Uh yeah, I would like some um just clarification from staff on the uh Eddie Street Bridge option or the Eddie Street Bridge item. Sure. Mr. Rinka. Yes. So, just want me to give you a quick overview? Uh, yes, please. And I might ask you a question if y overview doesn't cover it.

Okay. Um, so Eddie Street Bridge, that is a railroad owned bridge. The city does not own it. Um, it was about eight years ago, maybe 10 years ago. The city tried to um redesign, replace the bridge. got so far when we realized that we do not own the bridge. It is indeed a railroad owned bridge. So that kind of hit the brakes back then. Um it's just kind of been sitting in its current state over the years deteriorating. Um bridge inspections were not performed by the city because we didn't own the bridge like we do with all of our other bridges. It was a it was all the respons responsibility of the railroad. Um, so it was about what a year and a half ago when we had to close the bridge. That's kind of what triggered this title wave of things to into motion with the railroad to negotiate getting it from their ownership to our ownership. And we've been working on that for about 14 15 months now. And we are finally here tonight to put an end to it, get it under our possession. And then we already have the DOT has reserved us a spot to get this bridge into the next bridge program that's was since last October, but they've been holding on to it for us knowing this night was coming and then we'll get it into design and we're hoping to do it on a fast track and replace the bridge in two years.

Great. Uh quick question if I can. Yes, please. Um so I noticed in the the contract language uh it says that that we own the bridge. we will own the bridge but not the land that it's on. Um, is that something that will, you know, if it if it took you this long to if it took them this long to agree to sell the bridge, is it going to take them that long if we Well, they're just saying we're not we're not going to own the railroad track underneath. That's always Okay. Yeah. But all the wherever we we need to build our stuff up top, you know, and along the sides that's that's us. So, it's a non-issue.

All right. that that was kind of the reason my question had to do with are we getting a right-of-way access to do whatever else we need in relationship to putting a new bridge in there would be my clarification question just to make sure that that's happening. Yep. Yeah, we're getting everything we need to do a new bridge, new alignment, but yeah, really we don't have to really interfere with the railroad property down below, right? We're going to put the abupments outside the railroad right away. So, we're going to span over their property.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Rinka. Are there any other questions on the four sub items on our consent agenda? Seeing none, I would entertain a motion on the consent agenda. Commissioner Lawson, I'll make the motion to pass that. Commissioner Leonard, I'll second it. We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda. Uh, any further discussion? Uh, seeing none, I will call the vote. Commissioner Davis, I. Commissioner Ericson, I. Commissioner Hollesman, I. Commissioner Lawson, I. Commissioner Leonard, I.

Commissioner Reid, I. Commissioner Zoy, I. And the chair votes I. That motion passes. Oh, Commissioner Brewster, I forgot about you again. Sorry. That motion passes. Uh, nine to zero. Uh we move on to our regular agenda to item five which was a postponement from our March meeting. Uh this is a public hearing uh regarding the land development ordinance and heavy vehicle parking. Uh Mr. Noel.

Okay. Evening plan commissioners. Uh yep. This item is returning to you with some additional research that you requested. It also went before the city council. They didn't have much input. It was just more of a formality because we posted the public notice. Had to go before them. they subsequently postponed it postponed it to come back to you. So the updates here again this is the um this sort of is a twopronged um issue. So I've singled out the first issue which is modernizing the heavy vehicle ordinance which is um currently 6,000 pounds. We're recommending to go up to 10,000 pounds for light duty, which is consistent, as we talked about last um last month with the Federal Highway Administration's light duty classifications again uh in the green category. RVs, recreational vehicles that are that way more are allowed to also be in residential zones because they're used for non-commercial purposes. So all the rest are usually used for a commercial industrial type purposes. So, keeping that in mind. Then again, just overview of the light duty and when it tips into medium duty uh pounds and then heavy duty so forth. You uh advised us to look at the DO's uh licensing requirements. So, I was able to go and meet with uh Commissioner Zoy um at uh his place of work actually, which is very uh instructive in terms of learning about uh the licensing provisions. And as you can see here, the state has these categories labeled uh with with um uh letters. And you can see at X is the 10,000 threshold, which is what we had recommended. So if you would look at a license plate um here at some of the trucks that were on site at the dealer and you know, you look up at a pickup, this is a class C, 8,000 lbs. You start

to move into an X, you're at 10,000. So like a cargo van, you're pushing past 10 at a class D, class T, all the way up to semi-truck. And this is like gross weight. So you might have a combination of the vehicle plus a trailer and the weight. And that's how it's licensed by the state when they get weighed to make sure that they're actually meeting those rules. So um an easy way to enforce this is to actually just denote the top letter on the license plate to understand if they're meeting in this case say an X. uh you can see that right on the plate. So, that's a very good way for neighborhood services to be able to enforce the ordinance uh when it comes to that sort of thing. So, we got some great um hands-on instruction from Commissioner Zoy on this. And then also looking at some of the length of these vehicles with consistency related back to our new zoning front yard setbacks of 20 feet or less. Um and just adding a provision about that these trucks would be le less than uh 21 feet in terms of the the total length of the vehicle. So this is the the first issue relating to sort of updating this ordinance. So you can see here that we've added some uh the this actually should say and is more than 21 feet in length because it's talking about a heavy vehicle. So, apologize for that that error there, but should say more. Um, and then we'll get into the issue two uh with the conditional use permit. So, that is the the ordinance in terms of just those tweaks that we're recommending. Talking with legals and our neighborhood services that they're all uh supportive of these changes. Now, moving into the second issue. This is the conditional use permit to look at these heavy vehicles that are over 10,000 pounds to how would they be allowed in these low density residential

neighborhoods was the concern the question. So you could see in these lowdensity neighborhood zoning districts which we have three of them this table if it would be passed would uh add a C which is a conditional use permit. Um again we had cited these these concerns by staff um that a lot of these vehicles are banned from traditional settings with low density residential uh because of all the different concerns we might have whether it's air pollution diesel exhaust noise vibration wear and tear on roads their own um uh driveways creating blocks uh congestion dangers with turning and elongating turning movements backing in pulling out. Um, again, they're large vehicles. They're they're taller. They're harder to screen from adjacent views from residents. They can negatively impact uh property values to the adjacent homeowner. Uh, the aesthetics of the neighborhood too in introducing more of an industrial commercial type vibe to a residential area and so on. um can cause product storage and warehousing on-site in garages or off-site storage, which is not allowed in residential neighborhoods, and also for um on-site repairs with pneumatic tools and things like that causing noises for neighbors. So, again, really considering uh the the the property owners that live in and around these sites if a conditional use permit uh would be approved. And so as we uh constructed this proposed conditional use permit option, uh these are the things that we had to really take into into account. And again, just some uh concerns here about damage to uh roads that are not built for heavy vehicles. This is a 4-in matuminous example of crack uh pavement into a driveway parking on streets that

cause blocks lanes for vehicles uh moving uh through through uh the area. So, here's the actual ordinance. Um we updated this from the last version based off of our additional review. So looking at um Ashkosh, Green Bay, uh Madison in particular, um these communities also used that 10,000 square or 10,000 pound threshold. And they also curbed it down to these sort of types of trucks. So a cube or a box truck, a food truck, catering, vending, a van, tow truck, limousine, and a semi-truck cab only. So really trying to kind of narrow that down into these type of vehicles that would be less impactful for these residential districts. So that was new that was added. And again, these are this would only be a conditional use permit for one and two family houses. And also further review, we have a 15,000 pound limit on no through trucks. And so that is also noted in there with the no through truck route shall not be located on one of these designated routes. Uh we added in as well the uh adjacent to or join a commercial or industrial district. Um as well from before the rest of the information was the same as before in terms of screening hard surfaces a 10-ft setback from the side or rear property line to give that buffering. So you could do that screening that the lot shall be a halfacre in size. And then this was some of the other things the concerns that you might have other sort of uses that uh kind of are created based off of these heavier vehicles whether they're like u bulldozers, skid steers, forklifts and and oil mixers and things like that that can be sometimes brought in by these types of vehicles. So being explicit

about that these are not allowed dump trucks and things like that related to where it might end up being kind of almost like a contractor is storing some of his other vehicles on there. Again back to only allowing one heavy vehicle um used by the resident through the conditional use permit process and again storage associated with the heavy vehicle. Um, and then just the general catchall nuisances related to our code and ordinances, which is dealing with noise and air, things like that. And that the conditional use permit would not actually run with the land that the homeowner uh would basically when they would move on, it would become null and void. So, we could we could verify that based off of title searches. So, that is the ordinance. um based off of our research um and looking at these other communities, the 10,000 pound is the threshold and I think that's because of the F FHA and also class X from the DOT licensing that we would recommend updating the ordinance to the 10,000 with the 21 or more feet in length of uh to define a heavy duty vehicle and that we would not um recommend pursuing a conditional use permit option with just the negative concerns with residents living next to some sort of uh vehicle like this. If you have any questions of staff, we're available. Otherwise, public hearing.

Questions for Mr. Noel. Uh Commissioner Brewster. Thank you. Um with looking at the uh conditional use uh option um my understanding is with those uh neighbors are required to give give a thumbs up to that are they not uh they can object but that it's not contingent on that. be contingent on your guys's approval or denial or conditions added. If uh with the new LDO update, we wanted to be very more um objective based and hence that's why you have a lot of those rules attached to it. Sure. So that it's helpful for you guys to be able to determine if this actually makes sense or not.

Okay. Thanks. Any further questions for Mr. Noel on this item? Seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Noel. Uh this item uh is a public hearing. Uh is there anyone here wishing to give public comment on agenda item five? Please come forward. Commissioners, please state your name, address, and spell your last name. My name is Craig Reh. I live at third uh 314 Seymour Road, Oaklair, Wisconsin. Yes, Mr. uh Reed.

Okay. a couple of those pictures in there that was of my place, my truck. Um, I've been parking there for 11 years. The tore up road, there was a pothole in front of that driveway when I moved there 11 years ago and the city's been patching it and fixing it and whatever. Um, FedEx is straight across the street from where I live. They run in and out of there Monday through Friday and then about five or six trucks on Saturday. So that picture doesn't really um depict exactly what it is because I mean there's trucks, garbage trucks, quad axles, many many trucks you see more road. Many um I'm asking for a conditional use permit. Um I I've gone to all of my neighbors. I've turned that that paperwork into the city council. Um I didn't find one of my neighbors that had any complaints with me. They actually all like me living there. Um, I I take care of the sidewalk. I don't know if that's my responsibility, but I I've done redone the sidewalks for the he heavy. I've poured a cement pad for my truck to park on. I put a fence in. So, if you're coming from the west going east, you'd never know it was there. You You'd have to actually look over your shoulder to see it sitting there. Um, I guess I really don't have any more than that. I've been to city council twice. I'm had neighborhood services is there was a complaint against me and I I pretty sure it was from an ex employee from the company that I'm leased to was he wanted his I dispatched for that company and he wanted his job back. So I think that's who called but that's neither here nor there. Um I guess I really don't have anything else. I'm just getting close to retirement. Just I don't want to have to move out of Oaklair but right now that's I'm looking at other houses. I don't Oaklair is not a truck friendly town. There's no parking unless you want to pay $1,000 a month. Um maybe a year ago I could have paid that, but now with $5 fuel, there's

no way. I'm just one horse operation just trying to make a living. And I guess thought I was trying to do the right thing, taking care of, you know, the sidewalk and the driveway and and trying to make it look good. And like I said, I went around talked to all my neighbors and they they they love me living there. Three of them said, "Well, when you start your truck up in the morning, you're my alarm clock every morning." It's like, so it's all I have, I guess. Questions for Mr. Rene. Uh, Commissioner Brewster. Thank you, Chair. Um, how long have uh you lived in that location and how long have you been keeping your truck there? 11 years and 11 years.

Thank you. Any further questions for Mr. Reene? Thank you, Mr. Reene. Staff, could you comment on this proposal and how Mr. What Mr. Reene is requesting, how this fits in? Yeah. The the uh this gentleman is not the applicant. This is the city of Oaklair that actually proposed this based off of um uh two council members who um wanted to look into this issue. Okay. So, it's not driven by staff. Okay.

In the course of our research, we did find that the uh 6,000 lb was out of date for the actual heavy vehicles. So, uh we are recommending that. But in general, we do have serious concerns about the impact to residential neighborhoods. Okay. So if uh if this uh item six was approved tonight uh at this point he would he would have no recourse then to apply for a seat. Yeah. The gentleman is in violation currently and has for the last 11 years.

Okay. And so it came to a head as he described and um my understanding is that he he spoke to council members about his concern and so this issue is now before you but ultimately the council would need to approve something like this then he would have to apply for a conditional use permit and get that actually passed as well. So there are more steps in the process if this actually goes that route. Okay. Thank you Mr. Noel. Uh any further questions on Mr. Noel on the process here? Uh Commissioner Davis.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Noel, just to clarify, what are we voting on here tonight? Is it u to recommend uh as written? Um, does that include not having a conditional use permit or or is is there one is there a path to a permit in this language? Dumbing it down for me. Yeah, you're you're considering the proposed legislation tonight. So, if you make amendments, that's under your purview, but that's the item before you. It's been public noticed this ordinance with a path for a conditional use permit or not based on city staff.

The way it's written, it it does provide a path for a conditional use permit. Staff is against that, but um that is that is the research for you. Thank you. Any further questions for Mr. Noel? Seeing none, thank you. Mr. Noel, was would anybody else like to comment tonight on item number five? It is a public hearing. Anybody else on item five? Uh seeing none, uh we will close the public hearing on this. Um and I would entertain a motion here um from the commission. I so move.

We have a motion for approval from Commissioner Brewster. Comm uh Commissioner Hollesman. I will second. We have a second from Commissioner Pleszman. Any further discussion on the recommended uh item here in item number five which Mr. Noel uh pointed out uh on this on his presentation. Uh Commissioner Zo, I just want a clarification on the the motion. What you're what you're motioning for approval?

I'm moving for approval. that we update the language in the code with regards to the 10,000 pounds and 21 feet, the research that staff has done on that. Um, and also include u the a pathway for a conditional use permit and I concur with that. Uh, Commissioner Leonard, did you have a Okay. Okay. Um, so we have a motion and a second on this item. Any further discussion?

Uh, on your motion, I just I'm for the upgrading the the weight, but not allowing a conditional use permit on this topic. Uh, I feel we're just going to open ourselves to per se a can of worms and being biased to certain individuals instead of the city as as it is a rule right now already. And I feel That's not the path we should go. It should be a simple you can park your this vehicle in your yard or not. I know it's I just I I just feel like we we're going to get ourselves into a lot of bias decisions in the next going forth. So, uh if this is how it is, I'm going to be voting against this unless that conditional use permiss. So, Uh, Commissioner Brewster.

Thank you, Chair. Um, I guess the process, as I understand it, the process for conditional use allows us to take, you know, other factors into consideration. I'm looking at a map right now u of this where this gentleman lives. Not that he's the reason that this is happening, but for example, for his situation, he is literally right across the street from from FedEx, which there is oodles of of trucks going all the time. Um, you know, I I think if if somebody meets the criteria for a conditional use, that doesn't automatically obligate us to approve it. We are able to look at other extenduating circumstances. is I understand your concerns with regards to um how things could could end up in in some sort of biases, but I think if we're open about our justifications, um I I see that being of of minimal concern

and and the FedEx that's zoned differently than the residential zone. So, as a planning commission, we're looking at at zoning laws and so FedEx can do it. Now, if he was parking his truck on the other side of the road and FedEx allowed him, we wouldn't have this issue, right? Right. We wouldn't be talking about this, but it's a residential location in a residential neighborhood and that is zoned on the other side of the road as as most likely commercial or however it is. So, just because one's on one side of the street zoning laws we have to watch.

Uh, Mr. Noel, uh, could you refresh me? Was it staff's recommendation not to have a cup? Correct. Okay. I'm going to vote no on this also. Um, I would support it without the cup. Anybody else that would like to comment before we vote on the motion? Commissioner Brewster,

would it make sense to divide this question? I think it might considering I I reading the room, I imagine pretty close to unanimous consent on the increasing the the weight limit and stuff like that, but there's some some concern about the cup. Um, and so perhaps dividing the question might make some sense in this in this situation. Uh, sure. So would you like to rem motion? Well, we'll just vote on each item separately. Okay. Uh so uh is there is there did there need to be a restatement of this motion then?

No, we understand. Okay. So we would vote on the the weight and the length and then we would vote on whether to allow a cup. Yeah. Correct. Okay. Uh, so, uh, so just so understand that we're going to do two separate votes. So, I'm going to open it up if there's any more comments on the new process here. What we're going to do. No comments. Okay. We will vote on the approving the 10,000 up to 10,000 pounds and no more than 21 feet of length. I will

Sorry, chair. It would be more than that that typo that I caught. Yeah. More than more than more than 21. Okay. Thank you. Um so we will take I will call that vote right now. Commissioner Ericson I. Commissioner Hollesman I. Commissioner Lawson I. Commissioner Leonard I. Commissioner Reid I. Commissioner Zoy I. The chair votes I. Uh Commissioner Brewster I. Commissioner Davis. I

Okay, that motion passes nine to zero. Our second vote is to whether or not we are going to allow a path for a cup on this item. Any further discussion before we vote on that sub item? Uh, Commissioner Davis,

just just commenting. I mean, you know, guys, uh, uh, folks, I appreciate this is our this is our second opportunity to talk about this and I appreciate the opinions and and positions that commissioners have that that wouldn't want this in their backyard, right? Um, let's remember what our whole purpose is uh, sitting here tonight. Um, the the path to a a conditional use permit um, doesn't automatically grant a conditional use permit. is sets out a set of rules that that an individual would have to adhere by. Um, as of looking through what was presented tonight, those rules are pretty freaking specific for a lack of better words. Um, Mr. Zoy and your comment as far as zoning. Um, I believe one of the conditions that I had read is it had to be contingent or or near other zoning of that type. Is that correct, Mr. Noel? Um, you know, I I I think those are pretty specific requirements um that would have to play uh with this conditional use permit. Uh, not to mention half acre in size. Um, as far as a city lot, I mean, there there's many things listed here that are are specifically detailed to the types of individuals that would find themselves in a position to have to apply for a conditional use permit. And most likely those are individuals um um like uh Mr. right here. Um who's who's been doing it for 12 years and and maybe isn't in compliance and hopefully he's got a big enough lot and a shop and and the list goes on and on to be able to meet these requirements. Um now, does it say that, you know, is this going to fit for every neighborhood in town? Um no. Um no neighborhood in town is is cookie cutter and and is suitable for for something like this. But there are some neighborhoods that are still in the city of Oaklair that haven't gotten to modernization like others, right? Um, now I I live over on the south side of town. Do I want a dump truck in my front

yard? No. However, if I live down the north side of town and there's a guy that's been running a business for 30 years and he's just trying to do the right thing and he's got a shop and that's what's set up and that's how his neighborhood is set up to run. Uh, it it happens all the time. Go over Western Avenue. Go on the north side of town. go into some uh more of the economic disadvantage areas of our city. And we're going to see this all the time. We can't just end what they've been doing for years based on tonight's vote. Now, I understand we have to go with way the laws written and and there's been folks like Mr. Wright that have been breaking the law for years and that needs to be addressed. I get that. If it's not uh right, it's wrong. Um but we can't just just cut it in half and tell everybody no more after today. If there's a path to righteousness, let them let them take that path. And if they meet the requirements, they should get the condition of use permits because that's the whole purpose for them. If they don't meet the requirements and they don't get the permit, uh, and that is what it is. As far as a fear of biases, um, we we have a set of rules that govern us. Uh, uh, and I think anybody in this room can agree. I've probably estain for more votes than anybody else in the history of this plan commission uh, for the purpose of not wanting to be biased. Okay. So that all goes back down to your your your personal ethics and moralities on whether you choose to be biased. So I'll get off my soap box, but that's my opinion. I know I said enough on it last time and and and I've said all I'm going to say. Thank you.

Anyone else? So uh I can say my name. Oh yes, Commissioner Reed.

Sorry I jumped in late. Um thank you chair. I know um a month ago I had talked about being um in opposition to the to the cup process. Um and I thought a lot about the health issues that come from parking these large trucks in residential neighborhoods. And then I thought a lot about the health issues that come with forcing our workers to do a double commute. Um and to me it seems like an equity issue. I don't necessarily find the cup process to be particularly liberating for anybody, but in a city where, like you say, it's already not truck friendly, this seems like the least we can do to offer some kind of release valve uh for them. Um, so I plan to vote yes for this.

Any further comments? Commissioner Hollesman,

one of the things that comes up and it was with part of the whole reasonzoning process is that, you know, the city's been around quite a number of years and we've had various levels and of zoning at different times and different levels of enforcement or lack of enforcement and different types of of development in different places. And sometimes we got development that occurred before the property became into the city. And that's all history. And part of that's the history of the city. And having the the the planned the conditional use permit process takes into account some of that history in a specific spot where it's been that way forever. And but it also does give the neighbors the the opportunity to weigh in and gives everybody the opportunity to look at the site specifics of that location and say, "Well, does it is it okay to make an exception for this property owner here as a conditional use?" And it's also a situation where if he sells the property, the conditional use doesn't go with the property. a new property owner would have to to get a new conditional use if they wish to continue that. So, I'm I'm in favor of a conditional use permit system. Thank you, Commissioner Hollesman. Uh, anyone else? So, a since the motion was made to allow a path for a conditional use permit, a yes vote would be to support a path to a CUP. A no vote would not be to to not support a path to the cup. So just a point of clarification there. I will call the vote. Commissioner Hollesman

I. Commissioner Lawson I. Commissioner Leonard I. Commissioner Reid I. Commissioner Zoy no. The chair votes no. Uh Commissioner Brewster I. Commissioner Davis I. Commissioner Ericson.

No. Uh, that motion passes. Uh, six votes I, three votes nay. Thank you everyone. On that item, we will move on to item number six, which is a public hearing for a reasonzoning. Uh, this has to do with our land development ordinance. Uh, some amendments and changes, and Mr. Noel will be our presenter.

Okay. So we're six months into the new LDO and we're we're learning a lot. Feel like new planners here at the city of Oaklair even though we've been here 10 years, 19 years. So kind of helps to challenge us something new. And so a lot of this is like heirs emissions clarification type things, reformatting. I'm not going to bore you to death with all that stuff. Kind of picking out a few highlights and we can talk about it. Then if you have questions, we're here. It is a public hearing as well. Uh but we did have a couple uh zoning map changes and that's probably what got the most like public interested in it because we had send out the notices around the properties. So just to show you the four properties, these were ones that we missed when we actually did the cleanup to the whole the whole city with the city with all the parcels which are a lot of parcels that we cleaned up whether they were dual zoned or incorrectly zoned. And um so these ones in in particular here are owned by the city. There's three parcels. They're zoned um actually should say GR general residential uh reszone to Public so consistent with the the ownership which is the city consistent with storm water provisions and in particular the the area over on Taff used to be residential area homes were removed bought out by the city it's all meant for storm water purposes kind of a regional holding pond also used for open space um so we had a lot of residents in that area just call ask about what's going on again reszoning to P public makes it consistent with the land use so it's cons it's not meant for housing and then this other um one back behind these houses off of Grover no phone calls there these other two were zone are zoned currently neighborhood residential they're owned by non city entities the one on the left uh by the Chipo River is actually owned by Excel through their Dell's improvement co and this is land that is open space for them but they do have some transmission lines

So, we had no issue with uh from them just reszoning that to Public. It also is nice to have Public along the river. Um again, would not be um for housing. It's it's owned by Excel Energy. And then the other one was kind of a peculiar little situation of these three small I don't know the history of why all that is back there but these little remnant pieces owned by the board of regions the university system checked with the university and they have no issue with this uh going from neighborhood residential to Public which is part of the Putinham Park Reserve. So they had no problem with that. So, these are the four resonings that we've got for you on the map and then we'll move into the text.

Questions on these? Questions on these resonings? Anybody for Mr. Noel?

Again, just cleanup work. So, again, more cleanup work. I just there's um I think like 60 sections in your staff report. There's a lot including some things that the engineers found in in the uh storm water title 19 which more clarification type stuff like used square footage. Um so for these sections here I'm just going to pull out a couple. We've got you know more building type rules, bird safe glass and cladding materials and uh windows. So this table and again the actual text is in your your packet but to not belabor it makes it more consistent with the windows the glazing provisions that um they would only be triggered for the impacted site. So say you did an addition then you'd have to meet for that addition part only the impacted site um the glazing requirements. So again more practical. Um it also as you move up the the scale for re redevelopment major redevelopment is 75 uh% of the actual building is now being redeveloped. Then you would also have to add invisible. So this is consistent with building cladding and so forth. So it's all the same. Makes sense because we don't really want to be p poking windows into uh buildings where um it's not really needed. Could be a structural issue. So we think this makes more sense, more practical. And then uh section five deals with a lot of different kind of nuances on the on the permitted uses whether they were an air mist. Um for example, the tiny cottage home courts are actually single family properties and so they weren't actually listed in the GR and NR district. Um so just clarifying that different nuances with adult and child care businesses. golf courses were not alphabetical um in terms of the table. And then we we also caught some errors

about in the high density uh district, we didn't have some provisions on when uh commercial uses could be allowed and say an apartment building. So we wanted to make sure that those were more present and detailed for like when you'd be able to do a restaurant or um kind of usually more auxiliary type functions for the apartment, but might also be open for the general public. a gift shop, um a little retail shop, things like that, a mixeduse building that's pro pminently, um residential. So, that details that. And then um we also created a new definition for contractors that was not um in the code. So, we added that as well and and uh put some provisions. And again, a lot of this was just by process of working with the public, learning like, oh, it doesn't say anything in the code about this or uh there's there's a gap or something and so let's clarify, let's add it in after staff reviewed it. Um, sections 9 and 12 add those supplemental standards for that urban highdensity residential zone that I just mentioned. Um, section 33 talks about uh the landscape uh letter of credit. So when a home builder comes in, we wanted to make sure that they it was clear that the one through two or one through four units don't actually need to submit a letter of credit to the city for that. All other projects do, but uh if you remember, we had a lot of exemptions for one and four structures that they wouldn't actually have to do as much uh like building cladding, things like that. So this we just made clear that you still have to meet the landscape requirements. We can hold up the certificate of occupancy if they're not coming good on it or we can issue a temporary occupancy if the the season the weather is not conducive for planting. So we have some mechanisms already built in there and I think the home builders would like would like this

clarification too. Uh we've we've not heard from them but this is something that um is not an issue right now but um we just wanted to clarify. Section 42 talks about these more compact green courts and carriage courts. If you remember that they're very clustered. Well, we didn't actually change the lot size reduction. U so they would still have to meet the lot sizes. Here we're allowing a reduction of 1,000 square feet for one unit dwellings or 500 for two through four unit dwellings in green courts because the added space is in the green court and so the lots can can get smaller based off of that additional open space in the green court. It's a little less than in section 43 as it relates to carriage courts because um those lots are basically sharing um if you want like a shared driveway and all the their own driveways come off that shared driveway. So a lot of that lot area is being used by just the facilitation of the vehicles. So we only reduced the one unit dwelling by 500 square foot in that case because there is no common open space. And again, we looked at some of our peer communities that also used the same consultant for us. And this was an example from Thornton, Colorado of how they kind of reduced it a little bit. So, we think that's in keeping and would actually allow builders to really utilize this this new subdivision form. And so, those were the highlights, if you will. Um, if you have any questions, we're available.

Uh, questions for Mr. Noel. Uh, Commissioner Brewster. Thank you, Chair. Um, do you imagine like a few more of these over the next few years?

Yes, we we caught another one today and I'm actually reminded that we would like to have you add to your motion a top of bank definition that is basically at the and I can at the point that's uh less or greater than 20% of slope. So, we had that in our old waterway guidelines, but we had a question about it today and we realized that there was no definition in the code. It, you know, was omitted. So, there's just stuff like that when you completely overhaul a zoning code that something might be missed. So, we we do anticipate bringing another round back probably December. We'll see. But, um, uh, I think this worked out pretty good. It's a little bit slow right now in terms of development projects coming in. So we were able as staff to go after after f the first six months of implementation to to clean it up. Any further questions for Mr. Noel?

Seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Noel. Thank you. Uh this item is a public hearing. Uh if there's anyone wishing to give give public comment, please come forward,

state your name, address, and spell your last name. Hi. Um, I'm Aggie Watring. W T R N G. I live at 646 Putnham Drive. So, I've never been to one of these meetings before. And I'm sorry I didn't follow half of what I don't. That's our property. The little map that's got the three there. The three of us are actually, you know, what are you doing? That's what I want to know. I'm not understanding what this is about. Staff, can you help uh this lady out here a little bit? Yeah, those parcels are owned by the university, so they don't have any intention of doing anything with them. We're just cleaning them up so that right now they're zoned residential. They're so small you can't even get a house on them.

But for some reason, they're just isolated like that. We've asked the university if they're okay with reszoning that the Public, which all the other properties around there that are not, you know, owned by by people for residents are owned by the university system. And that would keep it consistent with what's already zoned for Putton Park. So I mean above the little squares is the university owns that up till the hill up till Harding Avenue. So you're just adding in more to them that you're saying it was just misszone. Correct.

Okay. Because like we personally don't have like any listing that says where our property truly ends. But so the university is not doing anything. They're just leaving it as platinum. No just the way it is. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else that would like to give uh public comment tonight on agenda item six? Anyone else? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing on item number six and the chair would entertain a motion. So moved.

Second. We have a motion by Commissioner Lawson, second by Commissioner Brewster for approval of item number six. Any further discussion from the commission? Uh, Commissioner Lawson. I Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, any further discussion? Oh, sorry. Your light was still on. Sorry, I should have uh No further discussion. Okay, I will call the vote then. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Lawson. Now I'll turn it on. I Commissioner Leonard I. Commissioner Reid I. Commissioner Zoy I. Chair votes I. Commissioner Brewster I. Commissioner Davis I. Commissioner Ericson

I. Commissioner Hollesman I. Thank you. That vote passes nine to zero. We will move on to item seven. again a public hearing for a conditional you use permit for a parking lot. Uh Mr. Petri will be our presenter.

Thank you. Uh good evening. In front of you this evening is a parking lot uh also known as Graham Riverside. It's in located in downtown districts associates and ni uh comehe is the applicant and the address is 402 Graham Avenue location uh along the Chipoa River and Graham Avenue and Grey Street. This is the former parking deck that the city owned and has transferred to the ownership uh of the building next door. Also in your packet was the preliminary drawings. The site plan would be administratively approved at a later date, but we did have some concept drawings that show the existing site and what the applicant's looking to do. Uh, as you recall, council uh along with the plan commission did review excess land and determined that this parking lot uh best interest would be to sell it to a potential developer. In that development agreement, it was noted in there that uh the property would be developed into something other than a parking lot in five years. The applicant uh is in the audience and can talk about his plans if you have any questions or comments. Uh also in the future uh flood plane development permit and the final site plan would be approved after the conditional use permit this evening. In the concept drawings though they did mention uh showing Grey Street is the access point. This plan has been updated a couple times already. So we haven't seen a final plan but I know AIRS Associates is working on it as we speak. Going back to the uh public hearing we did notify within 300 ft. We did hear from some of the applicants or the tenants in the existing building that do use the parking lot every day. Uh and they are looking forward to getting a new parking lot uh in this year sometime. Uh they didn't have any other concerns. They were just saying that the

city should support this conditional use and then approve the site plan and get them a new parking lot as soon as possible. Uh with that we just have a couple of conditions as I mentioned and I would stand for any questions along with uh the applicant this evening. Questions for Mr. Petri. Seeing none. Thank you Mr. Petri. Is the applicant here? Please come forward. State your name and address and spell your last name. Steuart Schaefer, 231 Riverfront Terrace. S c h ae f e r. What would you like to add, Mr. Schaefer?

Well, I think it's it's in the submission, but it's the important thing to keep in mind. It's a it's a temporary use. It's no more than five years. Um, we're not big on parking lots, and agree with the the push to keep parking lots off the river, but the ramp that's there now has served the property very well for 40 years. Unfortunately, it's it's past its useful life. If the ramp could hang on another five or 10 years, I think we'd be in good shape to take it down and replace it with a building right away. But there's just that period right now where we're going to need some parking. Um, and I think this the best thing to do is to have some temporary parking there. Gives us chance to plan a a nice building that may include parking for the office building if needed. Maybe extra parking for the office people. So, it gives us time to figure that out. I think parking is going to change over the next five years, certainly the next 10 or 15 and uh we really don't want to spend a lot of money on parking facilities we don't need. So, we're in an interim period. It's an interim project and hopefully we see fit to approve it. Hit move forward. Questions for Mr. Schaefer? Seeing none, thank you, Mr. Schaefer. Uh again, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone here uh tonight wishing to give public comment on agenda item seven, the Graham Riverside uh parking lot? Seeing none, we will close the public hearing and I would entertain a motion on item seven.

A motion the conditional use permit. I'll second. We have a motion by Commissioner Zoya, second by Commissioner Brewster for approval. Um, is there any further discussion on the commission? Commissioner Brewster. Thank you, Chair. Um, given uh sort of the the history and use of this site and um what's coming up, I feel very very comfortable supporting this um given both that it's temporarily temporarily and um also will be well utilized by um the surrounding buildings for the time being. So, I just wanted to say I will be supporting it.

Any further discussion? Seeing none, I'm going to call the vote. Commissioner Leonard, I. Commissioner Reid, I. Commissioner Zoy, I. Chair votes I. Commissioner Brewster, I. Commissioner Davis, I. Commissioner Ericson, I. Commissioner Hollesman, I. Commissioner Lawson, I. Uh, this motion passes nine to zero. Thank you everyone for your comments and testimony. We will move on to item eight which is a public discussion uh for a site plan a building addition uh and renovation by quickrip. Uh Mr. Petri.

Yeah good evening. Uh this is a site plan in front of you. The reason why it's in front of you this evening because it's zoned CC plan development. Quitrip is in the process of buying the location. The location's on your screen located on Lor Avenue and Highway 53 in front of the old gold's gym. Now, the YMCA, uh, this property has gone through a little transition since 2024 when the Holiday Station closed, was reopened, um, shortly thereafter into a BP station, but that closed as well, and now Quit Trip's looking to buy it and, uh, expand it and make it into their store. Uh, there was numerous comments that were addressed by the applicant and Quit Trip. We do appreciate them working with staff and uh this commission about their project. There was some conflicts about the driveways and access and the existing roadway. So, we do appreciate their time and uh effort on it. Uh you can see they're adding on both sides of the building. I don't know if anyone's been to the location in the past when it was open. It is a small footprint, but they are looking to add it on both sides. uh retail sales. They're not adding a car wash to this location. Um the access points would remain uh and then they would update their storefront and remodel the existing building and then add on both sides. They are adding parking in the back as well. Uh you can see the uh landscape plan will be updated and added to as well. um lighting plan is in your packet along with the um this newest drawing that we got on Friday afternoon. I think that was actually maybe was today. But you can see they are uh Quit Trip has agreed to do the street improvements on the intersection of Lorch Avenue and Old Town Hall Road. It's it's called a pork chop. I learned that over on Friday and

Monday. That was an interesting terminology. I don't really like pork chops, but uh for road design, I guess that that works. Uh this intersection was built when Fleet Farm was built six years ago. Uh and they are looking to improve that and they are uh uh willing to do that uh as part of this project. The site plan does include uh increased stalls from 19 to 25. Again, they are adding landscaping. They are meeting all the requirements of the new code. They're updating the building facade as you can. They do the standard building facade. uh they're going to completely change the site. Um I would say this is pretty close to the one they did on on top of the hill at State Street, but uh I would think this might actually be in a little worse condition because it's been vacant for oh 3 months or so and and it's uh complete remodel and then expansion which their byproduct is above and beyond what our requirements of the even the new ordinance. So we do appreciate that they are going to meet all the storm water and utilities. Uh as I mentioned too there was a narrative uh traffic and they are going to be meeting all that as well. Uh there is still a condition on there but uh engineering can maybe speak a little bit more towards the traffic if there's any questions. Uh the quitrip is in the audience this evening as well to answer any questions that they may you may have for them. But uh as again we do appreciate them working with us uh on behalf of this project and making this area uh you never like to see a vacant uh fuel station especially we have some other ones in this community that uh have been sitting there for 2 three years and unfortunately they don't look the best after they're vacant for that long. So we do appreciate them taking this location over as well. With that, I'd be happy to answer any questions if there's any clarifying questions about this newest site plan that you probably

have not seen. Um, our engineering is available along with Quit Trip. Questions for Mr. Petri? I got one or Okay. Uh, Commissioner Brewster. Thank you, Chair. Um, when I was going over this before, I remember reading something that the the fuel storage tanks were going to be replaced and now I can't find that. Am I did I do I remember that right or are they going to be using the same storage tank? I will defer that to the Quit Trip. My guess is they probably do not meet their standard of today. It's similar to the one on Gulf Road if you've been by that old uh holiday station. My understanding that was contracted through somebody else and does not meet the requirements. Okay.

But I would I would defer that to uh Quit Trip this evening. Okay. Any further questions for Mr. Petri. Seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Petri. Thank you. Is the applicant here tonight? Please come forward. State your name, address, spell your last name.

Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the planning commission. Uh, my name is Scott Tyen, Ti G-N. I'm a vice president with the Quick Drip Stores. I'll answer any questions as you got if I can. And on the tanks, uh, we will when we acquire the property, we will test the tanks. If they don't pass muster, they'll be replaced. But right now, we're planning not to replace them if they unless they fail. Okay. Thank you. Uh any uh further questions for Mr. Tigan? Seeing none, thank you, Mr. Tigan. Thank Thank you for your support.

Yes. Uh I would entertain a motion. the the public discussion period ended uh with at item under three. So there's no public further public comment. We have a motion from Commissioner Lawson, uh second by Commissioner Zoy. Uh any further discussion before we vote on the Quick Trip site? Seeing none, I will call the vote. Uh, Commissioner Reid I. Commissioner Zoy I. Chair votes I. Commissioner Brewster I. Commissioner Davis abstain. Commissioner Ericson

I. Commissioner Hollesman I. Commissioner Lawson I. Commissioner Leonard I.

That uh motion passes 8 to zero with one abstension. Thank you everyone on that item. We will move on to item nine. uh certificates of appreciation and I will get some hardware out here for Commissioner Davis who has been our secretary. Uh this is a certificate of appreciation. Whereas Tim Davis has served the citizens of the city of Oaklair as a plan commissioner member since June 2022. And whereas he has been an ardent supporter of Oaklair, its downtown neighborhoods and parks. And whereas commission members and staff have appreciated his thoughtful and thorough review of applications that have come before the commission. And whereas his professional knowledge and experience has been a keystone of the plan commission. And now therefore, the city plan commission of the city of Oaklair hereby wishes to express its appreciation as well as the appreciation of the city staff and the residents of the city to Tim Davis for his contributions, leadership, and service to the city of Oaklair. Thank you, Commissioner Davis. Thank you.

Yes, you bet.

We have a second a certificate of appreciation and that goes to our chair Greg Helguson. Whereas Greg Helguson has served the citizens of the city of Oaklair as plan commissioner member since September of 2021 and as chairperson since May of 2023. And whereas he has been an ardent supporter of Oaklair in its downtown neighborhoods and parks. And whereas commission members and staff have appreciated his thoughtful and thorough review of applications that have come before the commission. And whereas his professional knowledge and experience has been a keystone of the plan commission. Now therefore, the city plan commission of the city of Oaklair hereby wishes to express its appreciation as well as the appreciation of the city staff and the residents of the city to Greg Helguson for his contributions, leadership, and service to the city of Oaklair. Thank you. I would open the floor to Commissioner Davis if he would like to share any words. Yeah, I will. I uh

abstain. Yeah. Um no, I just uh you know really uh bottom of my heart, I want I want to thank city staff for inviting me to to jump on this adventure. Um when I got involved, I uh took over someone else's term. I believe they had to leave the the city at the time. Um you know, I I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again. uh your rights are exercised by using your voice and and if you don't speak up for yourself and those around you and and maybe those who can't or aren't willing to um we're going to lose them. Uh change is the only constant in life and uh in the time that I've sat on this commission uh we have seen constant change with the uh LDO and and the several topics that that are put in front of us uh every month. Um it's it's been a wild ride and uh you need people like you guys to sit here and fight for those who can't um and look out for the best interests of the city. So um I appreciate everybody's time and and thank you so much as a group um for doing this with me. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Davis. Um thank you fellow commissioners. This has been a great last year. Great group. I've enjoyed working with you. uh and all my past commissioners that I've been involved with in the last five years. I appreciate their help. I'd like to shout out to my predecessor uh Mr. Greg Granland who was a great uh chair modeled great leadership here and I really appreciate his his leadership serving with him during a short time. Uh and also again shout out to the great city staff that we have that have been so helpful to me and the commission on all these issues. It's been a a real pleasure to work with such professionals. Keep up the good work and uh thank you. Thank you again.

We will move on to item number 10, future agenda items and announcements. Yeah. May 4th, we have our next plan commission. We've got a few items. Um other than that, you guys have any announcements? Oh, the the comprehensive plan though we we um are in process of selecting a final consultant. So, you'll hear about that soon and we'll let you know at the next meeting. Uh thank you. Uh we have completed our agenda. We are adjourned. Well, I'm sure to leave the plan the comp plan in your good hands here. Too many meetings. Too many.