Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Good evening everybody. I am calling the Monday, October 13th, 2025 planning commission meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. Tonight's meeting is being conducted both in person and online. Members of the public may attend in person or the public may also watch this meeting online at burnsvillemn.gov/meings /meings or view us on com on the Comcast channel 16 or 859. The public can also join us on Zoom by going to zoom. us/join. More information is available on our meetings web page and in the agenda. First order of business is adoption of the agenda. Can you get a motion?

I move that we adopt the agenda. I'll second it. All those in favor say I. I. All right. Motion is carried. And we'll move on to approval of the minutes from our September 22nd, 2025 meeting. Have we had an opportunity to approve or review the minutes? And if so, can I get a motion to approve? Thank you. I'll second. Wonderful. All those in favor say I. I

opposed and the motion is carried. Rolling right on through, we have a workshop being presented by city attorney Jared Shepard. All right. Good evening, chair, members of the commission. Thanks for having me here this evening. Um, we're doing a land use planning and zoning training. Um, we haven't uh done one of these since I've been a city attorney. So, I'm I'm happy that we have the opportunity to to to go through some of this material. And uh as I go along, you know, feel free to ask questions as I go along. You can also save your questions to the end. Um I might end up covering whatever your question is. Um but we're going to try to cover a lot of material in a kind of a truncated fashion. So, um we'll get into it. So when we talk about uh zoning, we first start with the municipal authority to plan. So there's two main uh bodies of law where we get our authority for for the planning commission and ultimately the city council to engage in in land use planning. That's the municipal land use planning act and the metropolitan uh land use planning act. The municipal land use planning act is Minnesota uh statutes chapter 462 and the metropolitan land use planning act is Minnesota statutes 473. Um the Minnesota land use planning act provides the authority in and uniform procedures for conducting and implementing municipal planning for all cities. The act has been around for a long time since 1965. Um and comprehensive plans and zoning

ordinances must comply with the substantive and procedural requirements under the act. Um the the legislature said within the in the act that it's uh the purpose is to provide to mun municipalities in a single body of law with the necessary powers and uniform procedure for adequately conducting implementing municipal planning. The gloss on that is for counties in the seven uh county metro area. There's also the metropolitan land use planning act. Um this requires the adoption of a comprehensive plan before a zoning ordinance may be adopted or amended. Um these requirements do not apply outside of the seven county metro area. And the purposes of the metropolitan land use planning act is to make sure that uh local planning uh controls are consistent on a kind of a regional basis. So we're going to kind of jump to metropolitan land use planning and then jump back to to more traditional uh zoning principles. So uh the policy as I said of the land use planning act is to coordinate land use plans, controls and programs to ensure orderly development um in the metropolitan area. Um comprehensive municipal plans are required. um each local government and and you know some of these concepts I'm sure the planning commission of course is familiar with uh is required to adopt a comprehensive plan or a comp plan uh that must be approved by the metropolitan council. Um comp plans must comply with various metropolitan system requirements covering issues such as transportation, parks, sanitary sewer systems and airports. Um, one of the main things is that there is a prohibition against the adoption of inconsistent official controls. So,

state law requires that when uh the plan is amended, um, zoning ordinances and other official controls must be amended within nine months so as not to conflict. So, your comprehensive plan and your land use designations kind of drive the bus, if you will. So, what is the role of the planning commission? Well, um, this kind of brings us back to chapter 462. Um, and in under city code 2, uh, city code 211, the planning commission is an advisory body to the city council charged with this responsibility of researching, reviewing, and making recommendations on issues related to land use and development in the city. So, that city code provision stems from chapter 462, state law. And uh there's several duties imposed by state law on the planning commission. The preparation and review of comprehensive plans. Um the coordination and review with other local units of government. Uh periodic review of the comp plan, adoption of the comp plan, um recommendations of the planning commission to put the comp plan into effect. Those include zoning regulations, subdivision regulations, official maps, um, and then review of land use acquisitions and capital improvements. So once a comp plan is adopted, all proposed land acquisitions of the city must go to the planning commission for review and recommendation to the council. Uh, the planning commission will then submit a written report describing the findings. However, the council may dispense with that requirement by a two-thirds vote if it feels no comprehensive plan issues are involved. Um, one of your your your main uh responsibilities is review of land use control measures. Um, requires the planning commission to review zoning

ordinance amendments, subdivision plats and official maps. as you know, you engage in public hearings, take public comment, um, and, you know, receive and and pass up on applications from from members of the public related to land use. Um in Burnsville, uh as you all know that if you have a unanimous decision of the planning commission and uh staff supported the recommendation, then that decision just goes strictly on the consent agenda uh for sort of unanimous uh adoption by the city council without further review. It's only uh for the most part only those issues in which there's a divided planning commission or maybe a lack of support from from uh staff where that issue will come for uh you know wholesome review in front of the city council. So zoning is an important tool to implement the comprehensive plan. zoning establishes a land use pla pattern and orderly develop development of various types of district according to the best particular areas best use of particular areas of the community. Um so what we're talking about is dividing uh districts the the community into districts commercial district or business district um residential district industrial district. Um zoning is the most commonly used technique in implementing the goals and policies of the comprehensive plan. It is essentially the legal means to ensure that the goals of the comprehensive plan are carried out. The um authority for for zoning in our city code is uh section 10-2-1 and then from state statute it's 462 357

um is kind of the baseline uh statute with respect to zoning. Um the basic land use controls of the city are found in the zoning ordinance which regulates the location, height, bulk, number of stories, size of building and other structures, percentage of the plot which may be occupied, the size of yards and open spaces, density and distribution of population, the use of buildings and structures for trade, industry, residence, recreation, public activity, other purposes. the use of land for trade, industry, residents, recreation. There's kind of an adnauseium list there. Um but but you get the picture. That is uh zoning in a nutshell. Um zoning ordinance are construed by courts according to their plain meaning and in favor of the property owner. So, um, when you get a chance to review a code or tweak a code or looking at an amendment, we want to make sure that we're doing so with regard to to clarity and concretness. So, if there is a a concern about how um a zoning ordinance is going to be read, it's going to be read against the city and in favor of of the private land owner. And that goes all the way back to a famous case for us land. Go ahead. How does multiuse owning cause issues

like mixed use zoning? Yeah. If you got a mix zoning in a particular parcel such as retail and residential what what do you is there something specific

what complications are brought about by having multi-use zoning? Well, I I it's a a broad question, but I would say it's making sure that that the individual mixed uses are are compatible and working together, right? So, um, if you have, uh, let's say a restaurant and the the pattern of use is going to bring a certain amount of people to that particular block in that particular parking area from 4 to 10 p.m. Then, do the other uses in that particular zone align with that so that you you're going to have the right parking needs? I mean, that's just one example, but when you're looking at uh you know, and that would come into play when you're looking at a particular parcel, but also would come into play when you're looking at say a a plan unit development, which we'll talk about a little bit later.

See here. All right. um got ahead of myself. Zoning maps. So, zoning ordinances may divide the city into districts as zones as we talked about and will you adopt the city has adopted a zoning map that that identifies the boundaries of the various zoning districts. So, any individual resident or interested business owner is able to get on the city's website and look at the zoning map and determine whether or not particular parcel in question is within what district. Of course, they can also talk to city staff when they have an inquiry as well. Um, but that gives some baseline uh information to any of our residents. Um, one of the the uh primary or or baseline principles of zoning is uniformity required within the zoning districts. Um, so you're treating each class or kind of building structure, land or use similar. Um, we're going to talk about a little bit about the procedures for adopting and amending zoning ordinances. Um, and I want to make sure I don't lose my spot here, but um, the planning commission may submit proposed ordinances to the council at any time. So, the planning commission can uh, make recommendations to the council about particular changes to the zoning code. In addition, as as as you all know, applicants um developers, residents come forward uh to the to the planning commission, ultimately the council quite frequently with an application to make a a a zoning amendment in addition to other types of applications like variances and conditional use permits that we'll talk about. Um whenever the commission is looking at a a zoning ordinance amendment, you're going to study it. you're going to make

sure you have a discussion, look at whether or not it uh works in conjunction with the other uh the district itself or the other uh related districts. Um you're going to have a public hearing on that. So, you're going to have a notice and public hearing requirements for all of those uh amendments. Um, after that public hearing, you're going to discuss potentially revisions to the the amendment as proposed and then ultimately submission to the council. When the council approves that, then it is published and adopted as as a new zoning ordinance. Um, as part of that process and as part of your uh general review of applications that come in front of you, sometimes there is the uh necessity for an interimm ordinance uh or a moratorum. anyone familiar with that term? Um, so what that means is is that um the state law allows us to take time when kind of a novel issue comes in in front of the city that maybe we haven't really solved for within our our zoning code and we can adopt a moratorium or interimm ordinance on on on new applications. And that can be even um spawned by an application that is in front of you. Um so if you want to for example um study assembly uses because you got an application that uh for an assembly use and you feel like these should be conditional uses and some of the assembly uses are are permitted. um you can adopt a moratorum that allows the planning commission the opportunity to study that issue before making any changes to the zoning code. So that's just another uh kind of gloss on that general process for zoning ordinances.

So when we talk about we talked a little bit about districts. So we might have commercial districts, residential districts. Within those districts, we have uses. Um, we have permitted, accessory, and conditional uses. So, permitted uses are uses that property owners have a right to engage in um automatically. Um, there's no discretion to deny a permitted use. So, if if the planning commission and ultimately the council has made the legislative decision to uh allow something as a permitted use within a zoning district, that individual who owns the property can go ahead and engage in that use within that zoning district. It is generally arbitrary or unlawful to deny a building permit for a permitted use. So, there's no review by the planning commission. So, we don't see in this body, we don't see permitted uses because they don't there's nothing for us to review here. Um, applicant applies for a building permit with a supporting documentation that the that the use is permitted and they go forth. Um, accessory uses are uses that cannot stand alone and must be accompanied by a per principal use. Um, a shed, for example, is a is a classic example of a accessory use in a residential area. Um, and then conditional uses. Conditional uses of being um, one of the types of uses that are the most litigated. Um, conditional uses are those that are permitted under certain conditions designated by the planning commission, ultimately the council. um if those conditions are met. If a use isn't permitted in a zoning district, um then it's not allowed. So there's no, hey, you didn't you didn't list my my use, so it, you know, I

automatically get it. You didn't specifically prohibit it. No. If it's not specifically uh allowed as a permitted use or allowed as a conditional use, it's not allowed. Um, one of the other important principles to know is that there's no, we're going to talk a little bit about variances later. U, but there's no use variances. So, you can't uh apply to the planning commission and say, "Hey, I want to operate um an auto automobile repair shop um in this district where it's not allowed and I want a variance to do so." You can't do that. You can't vary vary the use. you can only vary dimensional aspects of a particular use. Um, if the use is neither permitted nor a conditional use, an applicant can apply for a reasonzoning to a zone in which the use uh is permitted or conditional. So, hey, I want to reszone my particular parcel to a different district. um or request that the city amend the zoning ordinance to allow the use as a permitted or conditional use in the district where the property is located. So, I have a commercial district. Um again, that auto repair shop's not listed as a permitted or conditional use. I think it should be based on all of the other uh you know, permitted or conditional uses within the zoning district. It's compatible. I want to make that application to have uh the city make that change. One other category of use is interim uses. An interim use is a temporary use uh until a certain date or until the use is no longer permitted. So the intent is to allow it for a limited period of time. Uh that reasonably uh utilizes the property when the use is is

contemplated under is not currently reasonable under the comp plan. uh but it may be unacceptable in light of future anticipated development. So um the interim use must be provided for in the zoning code. So it's not like something that you can make an application for. We um and then often interim uses you see them for like mining activities, agricultural activities. Um but again these are for uh limited periods of time. you can't make uh in contrast to a conditional use permit which a conditional use permit runs with the land. Um historically or or in the past uh there were cities that made conditional use permits uh with a time element to them, the temporal element. Um but that's not allowed uh with a conditional use permit anymore. So if if that's what you're thinking, the interim use may be the way to go. Um here. So any questions so far?

Just charging ahead. We don't we don't really see interim use here from my recollection. That's pretty unusual for that to come through here. Yeah, that doesn't that doesn't surprise me. I I feel like that driving range. Okay. We do have um coun um sorry commissioners. We do have an application right now for a inim use for a landscaping company to store vehicles and materials on a site that we're currently reviewing. That'll be moving forward to a council meeting and or plan commission meeting here within the next couple months.

Um but you are correct there. It is very rare. There's not a lot of I think a lot of these kind of moved away from them. Mhm. Um there's just like Jared said, um there's a lot of potential litigation with them and the sunset dates and they're very complex and I think you to the extent you still see them I think you tend to see them in cities that are that are kind of less developed are developing on the edges and so you know this end of town I is not developed yet but it will be so we'll give you an intern use for something that's going to happen over here as the developed uh portion spreads. I have a question, please. Yeah.

If if a residential suppose they've been having an auto repair are their garage and they've had it for 10, 15 years and no one has brought to the attention of the city or anything and all of a sudden it's brought forward. Can they claim, well, I've had it here for 15 years now. Why are you stopping me?

So, if the zoning code prohibits it and they started it uh before the zoning code prohibited, they might have an argument that it's a lawful non-conforming use. If the zoning code prohibited it and then they started later in time and no one apprised the city or no one complained about it, they still wouldn't have a lawful non-conforming use. And that's assuming they were trying to make an argument that the use itself is allowed versus sort of a home occupation, which is kind of another another issue. Um, so as we talked about before, conditional use is is a type of use where uh we made the determination that hey, it can be allowed within this zoning district, but with some conditions to make sure that we can mitigate some of the aspects of this use that may cause problems for public health, safety, and welfare or problems with with neighboring property owners. Um, so we can uh put conditions on that use that are reasonably related to the use. So there must be a nexus requirement to any conditions that we want to oppose. Um, so if you you put a condition that's just kind of wholly unrelated uh to the what I call nuisance conditions for lack of a better word. Um, you're not going to that's not going to pass muster. So it has to be related and obviously as we go through the planning process uh you know staff and and and even the planning commission are are engaging in a dialogue with applicants and engaging in a dialogue of what those conditions uh should be. And the more and more you have that conversation, the better off you're going to be. And you're going to get

conditions that make sense for the applicant and make sense for for enforcement of some of those issues. Um, again, as I talked about before, time limits. Um, it used to be that there was sort of sunsets put into conditional use permits. You can't do that anymore. Um, it a conditional use permit runs with the land forever. So, once you grant it, um, it gets recorded against the property. If um that person sells the land and and goes and moves elsewhere, someone takes the land, they can do the same conditional use on that property without having to come back to the city and um seek any other approvals there. That parcel is allowed to have that conditional use. Again, subject to the conditions within the permit itself. Um, again, as we've talked about before, the a lot of times things we do here at the planning commission requires a public hearing. A conditional use permits require a notice and a public hearing. Um, so I think we're all familiar with with having those interactions with the public. Um if uh the city's discretion is limited on an application for a conditional use permit um if that if the applicant has met all the requirements in in the code related to the the conditional use permit. Um so ultimately planning commission and the city council ultimately have what's called quasi judicial authority. um and they're making a decision saying, "Hey, whether the the requirements of the zoning code lining up with the application, you're making sort of a quasi judicial decision that um this meets this and therefore you grant or deny." Um but you can't just sort of make stuff up. The universe, your playbook is is is

uh narrow to what we have in the zoning code for that particular conditional use permit. Um, one of the things when we talk about uh public hearings, obviously want we want uh public input. It's statutoily required. Um, but neighborhood opposition or even a council member's sort of opinion or a commission member's opinion alone is an insufficient basis for denial. So, um, if we have a a a use that's allowed, we we've said, hey, this is a conditional use. Someone comes in and makes a conditional use permit application. If a a resident come up comes up or even a a member of this body doesn't think that that um particular use should exist in the district. The choice has already been made. The legislative decision has already been made and we can't kind of go back on that legislative decision.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I have a question from a planning perspective. So within our city code, um if the conditional use permit does not um if the applicant does not move forward within a time frame, generally a lot of cities have that time frame in there that says you have to either get a building permit or start operation within 6 months or one year. That's something you can put a time frame on. Otherwise, you cannot put a sunset date on said use cannot have the cease. Correct.

Yes, you can do Thank you, Mike. You you can you can do that time frame with respect to getting some sort of prerequisite condition done to getting up and running. But it can't be hey you've met all of our prerequisite conditions but five years it's five years down the line it's going to evaporate. That that's what you can't do.

Question. So, ignore my ignorance, but CUPs like eventually you could update code, zoning permit, things like that over time, right? Is that something you like if we keep seeing outdoor parking storage, right? Like it's always common and it seems to be okay. Do we go back and review that as staff of recommendation for future zoning updates?

Yeah, that that is a good question, Commissioner. Um maybe Jared can advise on this as well. So, for example, we have the city has multiple uh conditional use permits and some of them have been for uses that may be permitted now or we're talking about maybe making permitted, for example, outdoor storage within an industrial district. Would they would the conditional use permits then go void upon that change or would the applicant have to um request an amendment? It's kind of a loaded question. I apologize because there's multiple different avenues as I'm saying it that we could potentially do. I mean speaking in the abstract here, right? Uh you know I I think if you know a conditional use is is a a narrowly con can uh prescribed thing, right? So uh like like we said earlier um you can come in with this use but it has conditions and sometimes prerequisites to establishing that use. Permitted use is you don't even have to to come in front of us. So my view would be if if you make it permitted, it it sort of just goes away. I mean, it it's still recorded against the property, you know, it runs with the land, but I think that would be sort of a individual discussion with the land owner of how you want to document that.

Yeah. Um but ultimately, you're sort of removing those conditions by making it permitted use. can't you can't then require them to have the more narrow correct. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. So, for example, um what I would understand then is if we were to allow for example exterior storage outdoor storage lots to be permitted, the existing condition of use permit would become void. However, they still would have to meet the conditions that are outside the permitted scope of it. So, let's say that we limited the square footage of N that's a bad example. Um, we limited the height of the fence or put a fence height in their condition. They would still have to meet that fence, but the use would still that use is permitted, but they would still have to meet specific parts of that conditional use permit.

Do you on a a yearly basis, every quarter or something, do you review for possible opportunities? Yeah. So, right now actually um the city has been going through an update of the zoning code since I believe like 2019 from my math. Um so what we are doing now is moving forward with a proposed update. Um it's not an overhaul per se. It's an update bringing it reformatting fixing some things that are errors like that. Um, since we're just going to be starting the comprehensive plan process here, it's not really recommended to jump into a full-blown zoning code update as you're going to comprehensive plan update. As um, per what Jerro's kind of talking about, once you complete your comprehensive plan, you have nine months afterwards to bring your zoning code into compliance with their comprehensive plan. That's kind of that time you do that over

that up big update because at that time, you understand what the Met Council's requirements are. Um there is some things in there about land use generally and so you update at that time you do a more of a lift but historically in my other communities and I think they did it here they do an annual look at it once a year we do a cleanup okay state statute changed we got to change this the law changed on this this here has become an issue so annually I would recommend going forward I propose doing an annual cleanup or amendments to zoning code to make it sure that's compliance with the current standards that we're seeing in the ready. Okay, thank you.

All right, moving on to variances. Um, so as I said before, you know, variances are um alterations to performance standards that are in the code. Um and uh someone so someone someone comes in and says I want to um I I want to build something within the the setback for this reason. Um so it's it's not generally permitted in the zoning ordinance, but there's a special case. Maybe there's a special reason. Um the lot area setbacks, lot width or depth. um an application is referred to the planning commission for study. So this body comes to the the uh by virtue of uh city code section 1054 comes to the planning commission for study but it's ultimately um ruled upon by the council which is the board of adjustments of appeals. Um the board of adjustments of appeals again going back to Minnesota statute 462 is a specific statutory um responsibility and in Burnsville that's the city council. Um in order to get a variance you have to uh satisfy what's called the practical difficulties test. It means the property owner proposes to use the property in a reasonable manner but the use is prohibited by the ordinance and the plightly to the landlord land owner is due to circumstances unique to the property not created by the land owner. Uh and the variance if granted will not alter the essential character of the locality. Um there's a lot of play in in those joints there in terms of some of the language. Um it is very clear uh in the statute economic considerations alone do not constitute an undue hard or practical difficulty. So variances are only permitted when they're in harmony with the general purposes and intended the zoning ordinances and when they're

consistent with the comprehensive plan. So you still can't uh go against something that's in the comprehensive plan. So that is a you know a state statutory framework that we have to apply when the variance application comes in front of us. It's also within um our city code. Um so we have to consider both state law and our city code. There's really no uh variation within our city code uh that changes or alters any way or adds an extra consideration from that practical difficulties test. Um, it's funny because courts have held that cities must make sure they analyze any criteria in their code, but I I am not very familiar with any city that has something that's that alters that practical difficulties test. I mean, it's the standard to apply and it's frankly has enough going on. Um, but if you make a decision uh to to grant or deny a practical difficult or a variance, you have to apply that test and you have to kind of show your work. Um so as you know um you know the planning commission in Burnsville makes recommendations for certain findings of fact with respect to uh decisions that then go up to the city council. Um we prepare uh when the city council makes a decision findings of fact on that decision. Um, in other cities that's usually built into a resolution, but we do things a little bit uniquely, Burnsville here, where we have sort of a findings of fact document. Um, but that is what a court is going to look at should that decision be challenged. And that includes a decision for a conditional use permit grant as well as a variance grant. So, um the the court's going to look at the the findings supporting the decision and determine whether or not uh the

application of that practical difficulties test was reasonable or otherwise not arbitrary and capriccious. So, if you um had a variance application and you failed to apply the practical difficulties test or or applied it, you know, the wrong way, um you might find it uh overturned. But generally speaking, if you're applying the test, there's going to be difference to the the local decision maker. All right, let's see here. I would say that the biggest problem that arises in a variance scenario is when the the planning commission and the city council sort of have a different view of of when a variance should be granted. Um that does come up. Um, so that's where there can be tension and obviously the planning commission as being in the recommended body, you'll kind of quickly learn where where those uh differences are. Um, but that could be it. And also I would say generally when communities are granting a lot of uh variances, you might you know that's when you kind of start being introspective of why are we granting all of these variances? Do we need to make this the the the the changes to the code so that we don't have this problem? I mean, there are some communities that are just geographically set up in a way um like sort of some of the communities around Lake Minnetonka with weird lots and things where um it just kind of uh engenders more more likely variances due to odd shapes of lots where these very standard provisions just don't apply to very unique lot situations. But generally generally speaking in in a

community like Burnsville, if you find yourself uh with a lot of variances, you might say, "Okay, maybe we need to make some changes here to our code so we don't have to deal with this so much." Okay. Uh Okay. Quick little primer on on plan unit developments. Um so a plan unit development is a deviation from zoning standards. Um the point of of of planning and development is to provide flexible performance standards and really sort of a give and take uh a give and take between the land owner and the city. So, um, what what we're looking at is is really again back to that kind of, uh, performance standard issues with respect to, um, uh, lot sizes, um, uh, building sizes, those kind of things more more than the use itself, right? So, we um the use needs to be consistent with the underlying land use uh w with within uh the district. Um in our city code, I think it's 10271. Um we have kind of a uh set out some of the things we look at or we think about when it comes to planned unit development. That's variety. Uh the concept of mixed land uses, housing types and densities, sensitivity, um through the departure from the strict application of required setbacks, yard areas, lot sizes um to maximize the development potential of the land while remaining sensitive sensitive to the unique and natural characteristics uh efficiency, density transfer, uh and and district integration. So those are the some of the the reasons we have set out in our city code as to why we would make a a planned unit development uh consideration. But um you know when we think about modern shopping

complexes where you know you have a road running through and you know two uh buildings on one side that's a typical PUD burnsville center PUD. Um so that is adopted by an ordinance and fleshed out in a PUD agreement and that is uh you know an overlay on top of that land. Um we have quite a bit of those in in Burnsville. Um PUDS are a legislative decision so we have significant discretion when we make that decision. Um, but you know what I would caution is the idea that we we want to think about really what what what is the point of the PUD and the point of a PUB is really to to relax some of the standards the performance standards within that zoning district to make that use happen. Um, so it it's not to sort of um spot zone or or or or make changes with respect to to to land use itself. And in fact, that's in 10272 winter code. It says uses within the PUB may include only those uses generally considered associated with the general land use category shown for the area on the official comprehensive plan. So that's that's codified in our city code. Couple other things to think about when we're looking at applications. Um the 60-day rule. So everyone's probably familiar with this. I think staff is pretty good about keeping track and and and notifying uh the commission and council about the 60-day rule. Um but this is uh Minnesota statute 1599. Within 60 days of a submitt of an application, we're required to approve or deny the request or the request is deemed approved. So if we don't make a decision, it's deemed approved, which is

a pretty big penalty and a pretty big uh decision- making uh decision to give away, right? So uh we want to be mindful of that at all times. Um this is and the 60-day rule is is separate from the subdivision rule. So you also see the subdivisions come in front of the planning commission and that's the 120 days. Um a lot of times it's not very 60 days is tight, right? So it's not uncommon for us to uh do an automatic extension which we're allowed to do uh of no more than 60 days um pro by providing the applicant notice in writing. Um after that point and that this has happened before with uh applicants in front of us. Uh we have to agree to uh extend it beyond 120 days which obviously um it happens and sometimes some applications and some decisions merit um more scrutiny and and and and more conversation. Um the 60-day rule does not begin to run until the application is complete. So, it's something this is really a staff level uh issue, but staff have to be mindful and are mindful of what the application looks like to make sure they deem it complete. Um, and that decision must be made within 15 days of submission. So, if it's incomplete, if there's something that they should have provided that they hadn't provided, we don't want to deem it complete. uh because there may be a vital piece of information that the planning commission needs that won't be in front of you. And

if I can add to that um Jared, so within our packets or staff reports we provide you or backgrounds, there's always that inclusion on the very top there of the 60 days where we are in the process of the 60 days because that is um to Jared's point a very important thing where we are on that one because we never ever want to run into that 60-day that he said that automatically approval. So, we got to make sure we get those 1599 letters out and within 15 business days, we usually shoot for 10. That's that's the rule that I have and make sure the applicant's aware of what information is missing so we can keep the application moving forward in a very transparent way. So, um that's why we always have in all of our documents where we are in that process on the 120day rules or pointing out if we did get an extension from the applicant. For example, the Hampton in project that we reviewed previously, they were up against the timeline at the city council meeting. They agreed to extend that application voluntarily to allow for additional time for us to work with them. They extended at 40 days. They have to provide that in writing to us. Can't do it verbally. Has to be in writing. And then that goes into the record as well. Just to put a little more clarity onto that and why we you guys see that in your packets.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's a common question I ask when staff calls me about a land use problem. where where are we at on the 60-day rule? Um, and you know, of course, because 60 days is not just for running it through planning commission, but it's all the way through city council. Um, if the city denies a land use request, it must state in writing the reasons for the denial at the time of the denial or at the next meeting. Uh, provided it is in within that 60-day period of time. Um, also must state reasons for denial on the record and provide the applicant a written statement of the reasons for the denial. As we talked about earlier, we do those things through a findings of fact. Um, some cities do it just through a resolution and that's the written denial that then gets sent to the applicant. Um, but you know, you've all probably seen something that goes in front of the council that is debated vigorously from the council and there's sort of a tentative decision being made, but they make a motion to bring back findings of fact for denial or even approval depending on the case may be if they're kind of flipping from the recommendation. Um and that allows staff to to give a more but robust reason based on the vigorous discussion that was had in front of the council um that that is then adopted at a later meeting. Um as we talked about earlier um public hearings are required uh by statute for uh various items that come before um this body. Um the purpose of the hearing is to give public input. Um, sometimes public hearings are not just a statutory requirement. They've been put in the ordinance as well. So, we want to make sure that we're following again both statute and ordinances. Um, there are times, this doesn't really happen in the

zoning context, but there are uh, and I'm not speaking specifically about Barnesville or anything. I've seen it just generally with cities where the uh drafting of an ordinance isn't particularly uh thoughtful and what is otherwise a hearing say for example in a a licensing context is listed as a public hearing.

So there's a difference between a a hearing where uh the council is going to engage in a quasi judicial decision um but there's no public element required. Right. Um, but if you've put it in your code that it is a public hearing, um, then you have to have a public hearing regardless of whether or not the the resident input is really related to whatever issue it is. Um, and that happens not infrequently. Uh, because, you know, I think people just get in the head, they hear hearing, they hear public hearing because in in the zoning context, um, that's that's what we have. Um so amending a zoning ordinance, amending the comp plan, approving preliminary plats, IUPs, all of these require uh public hearing. Um they require specific notice to the applicant and and folks within a certain distance of the the parcel in question. Um and and so those are very important and the failure to have a public hearing can invalidate the decision. Um a recent case Wakonia versus DOC case I litigated actually was a a zoning decision after a moratorum to adopt a prohibition against permanent docks. The city viewed that as a uh police power ordinance because there was a specific statute on point under 41221 uh subdivision 12 which says hey cities can regulate docks sort of as an exercise of their police power separate from 462 over here. Um they didn't have a public hearing. They just enacted it. Um and it went all the way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court says, "Well, we have this test that we're creating for uh what is or is not a

zoning ordinance. We're going to apply that test to this particular ordinance in question and found found that it was a zoning ordinance." And because it was a zoning ordinance and they didn't have a public hearing, the ordinance failed. So, it can and that was after several years of litigation. So, it's really important to make sure that when a public hearing is required, we're having the public hearing. And frankly, when it comes to things that are bordering on zoning and kind of in that gray territory, would in doubt have the public hearing.

Um, I think this is my last slide here. Um just other considerations to think about in your role. So just wanting everyone to sort of understand their role. Um a couple things you know council is the ultimate policy maker right? Uh the planning commission is the recommending body but the planning commission does recommend policy. Um some of your decisions are going to be legislative in nature. Um, again, adopting a uh PUD, adopting a zoning ordinance, those are legislative in nature. You have a lot of discretion uh this commission and ultimately the council has a lot of discretion in making those decisions. It's hard for those decisions to be overturned. In other words, um when you're uh reviewing a a conditional use permit or a variance, you're operating in a quasi judicial capacity. Again, you're kind of uh calling balls and strikes based on the language of the code and the application in front of you. Um so knowing which one of those roles you're wearing at any given time is important. Um it's important for for your discussion, you know, so that you can understand that what you put on record um is is you you're speaking the right language for for the decision that you have. Um, again, while ultimately the city council is going to make the decision, uh, I can tell you as a as a a litigator, when we litigate these land use decisions, the discussion, the uh, transcript from the both the planning commission and the city council ends up in the record before the court. So, those discussions are um, something that that courts look at, get argued. So understanding your role in any given time I think is really important in making sure that you're helping to build that that record. Um another thing is

that you're going to have stuff that comes in front of you that um requires expertise that's sort of beyond us, right? So uh we're not experts at everything touching land use. We're not experts in um sort of environmental review for example or um various other things where you make conditions. So for example, going back to conditional use permits, you might have conditions that say, hey, this use is conditioned on getting all of the requisite state and federal approvals that may apply in this particular area, right? Um so we don't have to be experts in that. we just have to make sure that we're following our code and on the back end making sure that they get all the requisite approvals from those experts. Um so again knowing and kind of understanding where we apply um that is important and and finally um another thing about knowing your role is just that kind of advocate versus advocate versus decision maker, right? You are in a a decision- making body or recommending body. Um you're not in the advocate role, right? So, we want to make sure that um when you have an application in front of you, you're you're not out in the community uh signing up to a list who's opposing the application in front of you because that's not your role, right? So, um decisions of this body or decisions of the city council can get overturned if we have a record of of biased decision- making. So, it's important to make sure that um you know, we're not doing that. And one of the the the pieces of that is, you know, letting staff do the bulk of the work for letting staff do the leg work. Um staff is going to um you know, work with applicants, make sure that you have all of the right information, and

I'm sure this has happened before, but obviously sometimes things come back in front of the planning commission because, hey, we this is sort of not fully baked. Staff works with the applicant, brings back something fully baked. um we don't want you to sort of engage in those discussions um by yourself. We want staff to be the conduit. We want everyone to receive all of the information uh together. You vote as a a collective unit. It's a collective decision. So, we want to make sure that everyone has the same access to information. Doesn't mean, you know, if there's a parcel land in question, you can't drive by it and say, "Oh, that that's that's where that is, you know. That's totally fine, but having those meetings outside of of commission meetings with an applicant is is uh not recommended.

Jerry, I have a quick question. Can you touch on um conflict of interest? You kind of touched on a little bit there about um you know, the role of the commission on you know, conflict of interest. You kind of touched on a little bit there about um being you know, I'll turn it over to you.

Yeah. Well, I would say I mean as a general matter um if you have some sort of interest uh I would say specific interest in something that comes in front of the council, you want to or comes in front of the commission, you want to talk to staff and then potentially me about whether or not um there is a real conflict. Um that could be a financial conflict. Sometimes it's just an appearance things, you know, and that's important too sometimes to to to avoid the appearance of a conflict even though it might actually be a two true two true conflict that requires you not to uh to vote. Um but again I think what happens most often is just the idea that um the public gets a sense that someone has has an a decision before they even get to the meeting. And I think that's really what you want to try to avoid as much as possible to bring an open mind to the meeting. Have staff develop you know the record in front of you and um and and obviously things don't happen in a vacuum. This is your community. is very important to you. You you're aware of what's going on in the community. Um I'm not naive, right? But um we want to make sure that you know everyone is giving a fair shake and uh given a fair shake and and uh again as a collective you're getting all of the information together. And just to add on to Jared's point there, sorry commissioner. Um, so I've had a couple times in my career where there has been a conflict of interest on a plan commissioner. Um, one of them worked for one of the applicants and they asked, you know, they called me and I brought in the attorney and said, "Hey, this is a situation." And the attorney advised on the on that. So, what I ask is just call me if you ever have a chance you're like, "Oo, I might be in, you know, I know so and so because of something, just let me know.

We can bring Jared in just to make sure." Better safe than sorry. Um, I've had one case in my career where someone should have stepped down and not voted on a case and luckily nothing was brought up from that. Nothing occurred. But if um if there was litigation, they would have lost. There was a definite conflict of interest. So just just let me know if there's ever a time where you're thinking, well, there's better safe than sorry to Jared's point. So, Misha,

it sounds like if something is within falls within the plan, falls within zoning that we really can't vote no on something. Is that a fairly accurate assessment? Well, I I I we got to be careful and and if staff says they support blank.

Well, what I would say is, you know, for example, if you have a conditional use permit and you have various requirements in your code for meeting uh that particular use within that district in your code uh and they meet that, I say the the answer is is is yes. You don't really have much discretion there. Um, again, there's there's certain conditional uses where you can put conditions on it. Um, but there's not a lot of discretion if you've already made the legislative decision as to what is required and you you can't change that on a dime at the time of the application. So, if it's something you get an application and you're like, "Yeah, I wish I wish that wasn't the the deck of cards we're playing with." That's unfortunate, but for the particular application in question, your hands are kind of tied, right?

Yeah. To add a good example would be if we're looking at a landscaping plan that meets ordinance, but you believe they need more trees for screening. That would be a conflict right there because they meet ordinance with the amount of trees they have planted, but you want them to go above and beyond. And there's not a request for flexibility via PUD or anything like that. So, that would be like a step too far. Is that a pretty good summary? good example. Yeah. Instead of my vague analogies.

Um but but to Mike's point, I mean, if you you were in a PUB sit sewage situation, you might have the flexibility. Again, there's that give and take, right? So, you might get above what the ordinance might otherwise require, but they're going to get some flexibility in return. Yes. Follow up on that. So on a conditional use permit, however, the planning commission could make another recommendation. Okay.

Yep. As long as it's uh it's like Jared said about the conditional use per the last meeting, we did a great job. Um it's not my favorite to do math at the day, but uh the applicant did ask at the meeting um to increase the height of a fence. And so that's where you guys would step in and say yes, we support that. You know, we did it perfectly. You asked our input. We provided here our stance on what we think. and then you guys add the condition that address their need. So that's a perfect example. Now, if you were to say something outside the lines on that one, saying you should, you know, I don't know, there's add more lighting or something like that that's outside the ordinance. That's starting to get pushing outside the fridge of a conditional use permit because that's not the topic at hand or it's outside the preview of the application. That's it. We've come to the end of my slides. Any other questions? Commissioner,

um I apologize for the questions. No, it's fine. On on the PUDS, I I I take Burnsville Center for example because you brought that up. Traditionally, it had been primarily food and retail and it's now become a zoo or how is that generically just fit into that PUD or did that would that be something that would be outside the PUD that they would have to that was an amendment to the PUD to allow that use within the PUD? Okay. Yep.

So, you can add amendments later on. Yeah, I would say um and Mike can chime in here. Typically, you know, um from a peed standpoint, we want to move into the the more kind of dimensional flexibility types of things than the use flexibility. Um that's sort of the ideal um place to be for for PUDs. But yes, correct. So it usually like to Jared's point if you're going to do a PUD in my experience it's the flexibility. So it's usually um we need flexibility due to the we can't meet the lot size requirements so we can't plant the number of trees. All right. Can is there something that a lot of times they'll say we'll add some additional plantings on site somewhere else or try to work some kind of a deal. Um, it's when you get to that use realm, it gets gets kind of interesting. Usually I gotta talk to Jared.

Beautiful. I have a question and it's about the stuff that was put in our packet. Kind of the guidelines for that. Yep. We're going to get to that next. No more questions for me. Thank you. All right. Is that it? That's a wrap for questions. Awesome. Thanks, Jared.

All right. Thank you all. That's an excellent segue. Um, so within your packets, there is some plan commissioner onboarding documents that be provided that are draft. Um, apologize if there's any typos or spelling errors. They're drafts. Um, the intent of that is to provide commissioners with more background on what we look at when we see site plans and what we kind of, you know, do that deeper dive. So, when you're looking at a site plan, what kind of information, you know, to um ask questions about like, you know, do they meet the federal metric plan? Do they meet the landscaping plan? Um Connor did a good job taking a look at those and kind of updating them. But we're just kind of looking for feedback. Um as we my experience, we onboarded two new plan commissioners um this past year. It's always nice to have these documents available for everyone, too. It's just good to have a follow through follow-up document to show um to guide you as you review these applications. Um kind of like Jared did today. Same thing, what a condition permit is, what a um planning development is. So, one document kind of walks through those. Another one is the organizational one, the community development, and then the other one site plan review. you know what kind of look at and that's one thing we're kind of looking at as we're updating the code is kind of looking more towards like a site plan review on some applications. We get a lot of requests in the community for additions to buildings that are so close to being this should be at a planning commission, this should be at a zoning at a city council. So, we're trying to put figure out a way of doing that so we can have these site plan reviews more often because some of these items are so on the line of should it be administrative, it should go to plan commission. So, what we're working on as a staff level is creating within the zoning code um a trigger for them to go to planning commission. They you're over this. It's

very clear you got to go to planning commission um for review and that's where that site plan comes in. We don't do a whole lot of site plan review here. A lot of times it's a conditional use per you've seen. Um we do have a couple cases here. Um I should say we should do a handful a year where we do the site plan review five projects. But um we have a couple coming up here will be more the site plan review looking at landscaping plans and all that kind of fun stuff. You mentioned you're seeing applications that are that that you're not sure if they should be administrative or or come to the commission. I mean, and you say they're right on that the line. There's a line there, right? And so they must be not coming to us because they're on this side of that.

They're on kind of that that side of the line and not on our side of the line. Correct. There is a a part of code that allows for administrator review. Yeah. Which is great. So, which is we like that. It streamlines the process. It goes makes the process faster for the applicants, everything like that instead of a typical

typical planning case takes about 45 to 60 days to turn around on average. Sometimes 120, sometimes longer than that. But some of these cases that come in for building permit, they are there's not clear wording in the code on when it should go to planning commission, when it's not. And my I think it works better in in a planning in our perspective is if it's identified in code, this is what the requirements are. You hit these, you can go right to building permit. If not, you got to go through the planning process. Um it's just not clearly written into code. So that's one thing we're working on as part of the zoning code update is to really articulate that mechanism. I was going to say as an architect and a frequent applicant, you know, oftentimes we go right up to that line because the there's the line we can, you know, whether it's a setback or whatever,

that's the line. So, yeah, it's you kind of made me nervous when you Oh, there's there's there's two of the code that kind of contradict themselves as we're looking at. They they say different things.

Yeah. So one says you can do 10%, one says 30%, so it's more clean up those things. Okay. Where and then there's some use questions that it's very gray. So I just think it's a cleaner process for the city and you know talking obviously be talking to Jared here to outline that process within code. So any comments on those documents? Any thoughts? Um if not you can feel free to email me. um if you have concerns, not as a group, uh individually um if you have any questions on them, but overall the goal is to provide documentation to help you kind of review these cases and stuff like that, especially in the onboarding. Um these are documents I created for another municipality, which I thought' be very helpful in this kind of situation here. Um as we move forward, uh onboarding commissioners, um we also provide it to other staff as they're looking to kind of use something similar for their commissions as well. chair looked at him too since he's here.

I got a question. So, I wrote down some of the like resources that's important for us to be able to kind of understand saw the comp plan saw that in there uh several zoning ordinances as a code to to be able to go into the district's zoning maps. Is that of importance to maybe be more familiar with? Because I don't I didn't think I saw that. Maybe it's not important, but it is important. Um that's something we can add to it. I think that'd be important to understand with the districts and the zoning like the land use and the zoning and how they inter act together. That' be something we can add to that. Okay. Um because it's very important because if it's not in conformance with the comprehensive plan, if the zoning code is not in conformance comprehensive plan, then you're violating state law. So we got to make sure that they talk.

Okay.

And that's something we actually a couple weeks ago got our system statements which is the kickoff of the comprehensive plan process. So we'll be jumping into that here. We have three years now to update our comprehensive plan and um the system statements state what we need to do to meet the regional goals of the metropolitan council. And so we kind of start that process here. We'll be bringing that forward probably going on for RFP for a consultant in early 26 and um start that process. Got a lot of leg work ahead of us here to figure out how we're going to do it. But if we just uh get started Jared mentioned there Burnsville has some different policies than other cities. When you guys came on board from other cities, what did you feel like? Did you have to learn a lot?

There is a learning curve, Commissioner. Um there's a lot of PUDS. Um and and it's very common, I think, for built communities to have these PUDs, use PUDS as I like to call them. um they're specifically state what uses are permitted on the site. For example, the the Hampton end project. That was a learning curve for me. Um I was used to working in developed communities or developing communities. So a lot of times those PUDs are for more like setback flexibilities for a house. Got a new subdivision coming in and um they want flexibility from the 80 foot lots, they want to build them at 55. Very common. Uh, the one thing that I found very interesting about Burnsville and I appreciate is the um unanimous approval. The planning commission unanimously approves, goes right to the council, goes on the consent agenda, which puts a lot of um onus on this group here, a lot of authority and a lot of respect that they have for you guys to make those determinations that they don't have to hear it um have a present presentation to them. That's one thing I think is very unique to Burnsville and I, you know, makes, you know, my past municipalities, I would have to present once at planning commission and then present it again at city council, but here they give you guys the authority and they trust your judgment to put it right on the consent agenda if it's unanimous vote. I don't know if Jared Conor want to add to that or anything.

Uh, Commissioner, yeah, I would echo what Mike was saying. I think the consent agenda guidelines is is one of the big differences and and I think it works really well and and uh he's correct. I mean it's the council putting a lot of uh responsibility and and and faith in this body um and it really streamlines things I think. So I like it. I but but it is different. Um, I would also say going back to what I was mentioning during my presentation, the the findings of fact kind of uh document that we adopt at the council level. Uh, that is different than kind of a typical resolution. Um, usually you have sort of that city council resolution finance a factor kind of built into it. Um, but it is a little bit of a different way of doing it. Neither good nor bad. It just it's just different.

Questions, commissioners, discussion. All right, we ready to move on to updates? Any updates, commissioners? All right, I do have one update. Um, we not really an update. Um, all the items from the last planning commission. We had the conditional use permit for chimney doctor for the open storage lot. We had the DRF concrete construction conditional use permit for open storage and then we had the good sheeperd um conditional use permit amendment. Um all those are on track to be on the city council meeting on the 21st I believe. Is that the date? Yep.

Yep. They're all on track to be on that agenda on the consent agenda since they're all anonymously approved. And at the same time, we will be um the city council will be continuing the MSP Burnsville, the Hintonin in conversion application at that time. That'll be on the regular agenda. Um other than that, um we'll be having a meeting on the 27th. So, we'll be working on that next couple weeks. And we'll be 27th, right? Yep. We'll be getting a packet out here in the next couple Yeah. couple weeks. We'll get a packet out to you guys. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Good meeting. Yeah. Next topic is adjournment. Good job.

Can I get a motion to adjurnn the meeting? Motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor say I. Opposed. Motion carries. All right. Good work, everybody.