Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, Madam Chair, it is 531, so you may begin the meeting when you wish. And are we on air? Good evening. I'd like to welcome you to the Tuesday, July 8th, 2025, regular meeting of the Palm Springs Planning Commission. Can I have a roll call, please? Chair MC, present. Vice chair. Elaine. Present. I know you're.

Commissioner Baker here. Commissioner Miller, present. Commissioner Murphy present. Commissioner Rottman here, Commissioner Morrell here. And Alternate Megan Hernandez here. Can I get a report on the posting of the agenda, please? Yes, Madam Chair. The agenda was available at the public access bulletin of City Hall by 9 p.m. On Thursday, July 3rd. In accordance with our policies and procedures, as well as online. Thank you. Can I have an acceptance of the agenda? So moved. Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Okay. This is the time for public comment. It's been set aside for members of the public to address the Planning Commission on the consent calendar and other agenda items and items of general interest with which are within our subject matter jurisdiction. We can't take comment on an item that isn't posted, or taking action on an item that isn't posted. Each speaker will have three minutes. Testimony for public hearings may be taken at this time. Also, members of the public who would like to comment on new business are directed to comment under this portion of the agenda. But what I will say is that we will take comments. We have one major item on the agenda, and we will take comments on that item from the public. At the time that that's presented to the commission. So you if you're here for that item, you have a choice to either speak now or speak later. Other members of the public who wish to speak.

We have several members who are online who have asked to talk. I'm going to unmute them and allow them to talk now. You you may speak now for three minutes, or you may wait until after the staff report. Yes, my name is Bob Snyder, and I'd like to speak on the In-N-Out burger. Is this the proper time? You may do it either now or you may do it following the discussion. It's your choice.

Okay. Well, I'll go ahead and speak now. Madam chair, I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to speak today. My name is Robert Snyder. I live at 2160 East Palm Canyon, number E, I'm a resident of the saddle Rock gardens Condominiums, which is located east of Cerritos and north of Palm Canyon Drive. The frontage road along East Palm Canyon. I'd like to express that I'm not opposed to the proposed project, but my concerns are with the traffic flows. I'd like to express concerns of the right in, right out curb cut on the west corner of the property, the access to East Palm Canyon intersection and Smoke Tree Lane, and lastly the intersection of Cerritos, Palm Canyon, and East Palm Canyon. The right in right out on East Palm Canyon will be a help for the project for traffic entering the property, there's a major concern that the backup or stacking of the cars to the signal on East Palm Canyon Drive and Smoke Tree Lane, possibly the curb cut, could be placed further west. The next concern is the intersection of Smoke Tree Lane and East Palm Canyon as traffic moves through the intersection, there's no control for right turn, left turn of traffic through the intersection to Cerritos and traveling south. The. The third concern is the intersection of East Palm Canyon, Palm Canyon Drive, and Cerritos. The distance between Palm Canyon Drive and East Palm Canyon is approximately 25ft, with only one car being able to stay in the intersection. This

presents a problem with no dedicated turn lanes for cars turning left, right, or progressing through south to Smoke Tree Lane. In discussions with LG engineers, these concerns were not considered in the traffic study. I'm expecting an email from them with documentation. In discussions with the Palm Springs Engineering department, I was informed that the intersection quote cannot account for modern traffic flows, that the intersection can't handle traffic flows. Now, it will only be worse. I feel that this is a great opportunity for Palm Springs to partner with In and Out for a good project that will accommodate ingress and egress for cars and pedestrians alike. I would like.

Would you finish your comments please? It automatically. Oh yeah. Automatic. Sorry. There's one other member online with your hand raised. Again, if you'd like to speak now, you may or you can wait until the conclusion of the staff report. Yeah. This is Dave here. I'm with saddle Rock gardens, a resident there, but I will hold my comments until after Bob started out but didn't get to finish, so I'll. No further speakers at this time.

Thank you. Are there any other members of the public here who wish to speak? If not, the public hearing is closed? Public comment. Or the I'm sorry the public comment is closed. The next item I should have read my agenda is the election of officers for Chair and vice Chair. Are there nominations? For chair? I would move to nominate current chair Kathy Wermuth to retain her position for another year.

I'll second that. Are there other nominations? Can you call the vote, please? Vice chair. Elaine. Yes. Commissioner. Miller. Yes, chair. Wernicke. Yes. Commissioner. Baker. Yes, Commissioner. Murphy. Yes. Commissioner. Brotman. Yes. Commissioner. Morrell. Yes. Thank you for the honor of chairing for another year. No nominations for vice chair. I'll nominate Lori Leyland for vice chair. I second.

Are there other nominations? Seeing none. Would you call the roll, please? Commissioner Miller? Yes. Commissioner. Baker. Yes. Chair. Warmack. Yes. Vice chair. Alan. Yes, please. Commissioner. Murphy. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Morrell. Yes. Each. Okay. The next item before us is the consent calendar. Do I have a motion? It's the minute approval of the minutes of June 10th, 2025. So moved.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Yes.

Motion passes. We have no public hearings, no unfinished business. We have one item of new business tonight, and it's a request by In-N-Out burger for a major development permit to construct a new 3886 square foot restaurant and auxiliary drive through facility on a 2.35 acre site located at 1801 East Palm Canyon Drive, zone CSC section 25 Staff report, please.

Yes. Thank you. Chair. Good evening, Planning commissioners. The project in front of you tonight is a major development permit application for In-N-Out burger. The project site is a parcel which is located in the CSC Community Shopping Center zone, and that the project area is approximately 2.35 acres in size in size, and the site currently is located between. I'm sorry. It's adjacent to a frontage road which is located between the project site and East Palm Canyon Drive, and the site also includes a private road, as you can see here, the project site was previously developed with a Bank of America building, which has been demolished, and the proposed In-N-Out burger will be replacing the previous development. The major difference between the previous development and the proposed development is that the frontage road will be vacated, and it's going to be a part of the In-N-Out burger project site and accommodate a new multi-purpose multi-purpose pass, which is intended for pedestrian and bicycle access. The application proposes the construction of a new restaurant, which is 3886ft in size, at the maximum height of 23.5ft single story, and the site design also includes 82 parking spaces, drive through facility, landscape, trash enclosure and outdoor lighting, and also amenities such as outdoor dining areas and canopies proposed as well. The proposed drive thru facility is designed with the 42 vehicle queuing area, and the design also includes a vehicle overflow along the private lanes that are

located on the Smoke Tree Lane, and also the private road to the south, and the facility is designed with a covered pay and a pickup windows and the detached canopy for employees, which is also noted as associate canopy on the plan, and that the layered planting materials is proposed for a screening and this is a proposed site plan. In addition to the main building, the design includes a covered outdoor dining area and then also a covered outdoor dining area to the west of the building. In addition to parking, perimeter, landscape and associated canopy, which is mentioned by staff and as a part of this project. As staff mentioned, the pedestrian path is proposed on the north of the building between East Palm Canyon and in that building. As a part of this project, there will be some changes to the site design and which includes the removal of the existing curb bumpout to allow improved traffic flow, the addition of a new 80 foot wide driveway approach, and a median along East Palm Canyon, as well as the addition of the multi-purpose path and the deceleration lane, which is a right turn only on the private road, as well as the addition of a new right turn lane overflow for drive through on the south side of the site. The proposed project includes the inflow flow plan, which will accommodate 74 indoor seats for patrons and 60 seats for the outside as it was shown on the image earlier. The proposed design includes a

covered dining area and non covered dining area, and 60 seats is the total number of seats proposed for outdoor. The project proposes a maximum building height of 23.5ft. The design of the building will be stucco, which is going to be painted with a material on excuse me, metal awning and aluminum windows and stone veneer. And the design includes the placement of a mechanical equipment on the roof, so the parapet will be concealing the mechanical equipment. The proposed landscape design includes a lot of shade trees, which include the mulga acacia, fruitless olive red plush pistachio, as well as California fan palm, Mexican fan palm that is proposing the 84% of the parking area to be shaded. Here are just some of the images of the proposed amenities for the outdoor dining area. The architectural details, which will be reviewed by the Architectural Review Committee as a part of the Architectural Review application. For this project, the applicant has submitted an administrative minor modification to seek a reduction in the yard setback along East Palm Canyon Road Canyon Drive frontage. The zoning code requires a setback of 125ft. However, the applicant team is seeking 102ft in the front yard setback considering the site's development pattern and its vicinity development pattern as well, and the architectural details will be further evaluated by the Architectural Review Committee and including feedback provided by the Joint Planning Commission

and Architectural Review Design Subcommittee that took place earlier. The. In reviewing this application and staff has determined that the proposed project is generally consistent with the General Plan and the zoning code as conditioned and with the approval of the associated Am administrative minor modification application for reduced setback. The project site is a former commercial site, and it's appropriate for the proposed use, which will serve the nearby residential neighborhood and offer vibrant activities. The project will see improvements in circulation, additional pedestrian and public amenities provided with the closure of the existing frontage road and the conditions of approval recommended. To ensure that the project will not create any detrimental impacts on adjacent properties and residents. In the staff report, there was a draft conditions of approval included, particularly the condition that's noted as admin number seven. The staff is requesting the Planning Commission to consider the omission of the part of this condition, which does not really pertain to the project, and then also Planning Commission number eight, to be modified to include a language which reads use of speakers for drive through slash pick up order is permitted at a lower level, consistent with the noise ordinance, and in conclusion, staff recommends that the Planning Commission adopt a resolution determining that the project is exempt from further review under class 32 and approve the major development permit application, subject to the conditions of approval recommended by staff, including the revised conditions, and this concludes the staff presentation. The staff and applicant are both available if you have any questions. Thank you.

Before we ask questions of staff, just for the planning director, in terms of our purview tonight, my understanding is that this is a single site. There isn't a PD so that our we are limited to acting on this site only. Is that correct? You're looking at the development that is proposed on this site, and you're looking at mitigating the impacts of this particular development. So some of the off site improvements that we're talking about in terms of extending that flow through lane in the right turn lane on East Palm Canyon, that's related specifically to this development and accommodating traffic. But we'll also, of course, have broader benefits to traffic on East Palm Canyon.

Things more broadly, except for traffic impacts. We're not looking at the adjacent shopping center, and we're not looking at other surrounding intersections that are outside of the scope of this application. Also, with this application, this is a previously approved site and with with a use that is also previously approved. And the impact of that is.

So in the CSC zone in which this is in drive through uses are permitted by right where they were established in the original development as they were in this case. So unlike in other areas of the city and other applications that we've seen, a conditional use permit is not required because of this particular zone and because of the history of this particular shopping center, including the bank that this is replacing. What year was it originally permitted? The bank building was originally constructed in 1973. Thank you. Okay. Opening it up to the commission questions, starting with Commissioner Morrell.

Yeah, this is probably for the director. I wondered you said that they didn't study the traffic within the shopping center, but I'm concerned why they didn't study that. There's a lot of east west traffic that goes in between the parking and the stores along that shopping center, and there's direct access from sunrise.

I might defer to our engineering colleagues. I didn't say they didn't study it. But typically our traffic studies are looking at off site traffic impacts. That's the city's purview. So we're looking at the impacts that the development is having off site, off site on the city's streets. So I don't know if our engineer wants to expand on that, but we're we're not typically looking at the internal circulation within the Smoke Tree Plaza. That's out of the scope and purview that is before us tonight. Okay. From engineering, as the.

Planning director is indicated, the purview is typically for the off site portions, but the traffic impact analysis that was submitted did also happen to include internal circulation evaluation. And in their conclusions, they indicated that there was no impact to the internal vehicle portions of the project site for the shopping center. Yeah, I think actually on page 22, they just sort of dismiss it. They don't give a reason why they didn't look at internal traffic patterns within the shopping center. It's basically just dismissed.

Good afternoon, commissioners. I believe the applicant's traffic engineer is here also. But one thing we want to keep in mind is that this development is not trying to fix the traffic that was done in the Smoke Tree Center back in the 70s or the 60s. That's, you know, that would be impossible for them to fix whatever flaws that may have been designed at that time. So with that, that's probably why they said that, you know, this is not going to increase anything that you're seeing on site. That's why their main focus was off site.

Commissioner Hoffman. Thank you. I have quite a few. First, just sort of in the staff report. Attachments one and two show the property line and it extends further south than what I think the in and out is, is taking. So why was that extended? Well, the property line that's noted or shown on in the area view that is actual parcel line. Okay.

But the project actual project is going to be limited to the area. That's the front portion of it. And I'm pretty sure the applicant's team can, you know, provide future plan for the area. But the southern part of the parcel is not really a part of this project.

Okay. All right. And then talk to me a little bit about the vacation of the frontage road. How does that work. Is in and out buying that. Are they responsible for maintaining it or is it still city owned?

So the vacation process is through the Subdivision Map Act, which the city follows. And so there's several different ways that a vacation of right of way can happen. That right of way was obtained when the city took over highway 111. So that used to be state highway, right? So that's when it was acquired. And that's why the frontage roads were constructed. My guess is it was done before I was born. So my guess is that those frontage roads were probably Caltrans idea of trying to mitigate traffic flows at that time, or who knows what the thinking was at that time. But there's several different ways of vacation can be done. It can be done as a separate instrument, and they can come in with an application and just vacate just that portion of that frontage road. And the ownership goes to the adjacent underlying owner, so it doesn't get split with the properties to the north, or part of it doesn't go back to the city, all of that entire portion that they want to vacate, which is excess right of way that we don't need, would all go to the adjacent property, which would be the in and out site, or if they choose to do a map, if they choose to do a parcel map where they're going to section off the southerly part of the property, maintain that property. The vacation can be done on the map as a parcel map too, so it's one action rather than two different actions. And in this case, I think we're we are suggesting that maybe a parcel map waiver kind of be done because this site was already developed. Everything around it's already developed, and the vacation can happen as part of that parcel map waiver as well. Either way, the actual vacation portion, if it's done by a separate instrument, by a separate document, then it's an entirely

different process. It goes to Planning commission for review. And then the final of that vacation goes to City Council for approval for that vacation. Doing it on map is much easier. It's it. It ends and it begins and ends with planning commission. And then it just gets reflected on the map. So there's a couple of different ways that it can happen. I hope that answers your question. Or yeah, it just seems like if I'm understanding the city's gifting this land to in and out.

Yeah, we never purchased the property. So if we had bought if we had gotten the property and there's a term for it, and I wish our attorney was here to tell me what that term is. But if the city actually buys the property, then it has to be sold. It has to be, you know, we acquired it from the state when the when we took over highway 111. So I'm not sure what the logistics are in that, but at this point it meets all of the qualifications for a typical right of way vacation. Okay. And so it's up to oh go ahead, Chris.

I was just going to add though, that while the ownership will revert to In-N-Out, they are going to be building out the public pedestrian multi-purpose path across it. And so there will be legal instruments to reflect that, to ensure an easement or some kind of public access is guaranteed across it. So those details will get hammered out through that vacation process and subsequently the development of the multipurpose path. But there is a public benefit that we will receive in exchange for that. Okay.

And we'll receive a will we reserve an easement over the area to for utilities and sewer purposes? It's the same exact identical process that happened to Smoketree Commons to the east all the way to Verona. There was a that frontage road used to go all the way down to Verona. And when that was redeveloped that the same thing happened there. Okay. And then. And then hav. So let me ask does was, does In-N-Out own this property or are they leasing it from Smoketree village or whatever?

The I would defer to them to speak to that arrangement. And I know that a representative smoketree is present as well to speak to that their arrangement. Is okay. And then when you close off the frontage road, then there's a dead end that happens to the west because the frontage road comes in, it goes across the US bank and then it just dead ends. There is a driveway, I guess that comes into the center, but I'm just wondering if, if that poses any kind of problems from an engineering point of view or traffic flow point of view.

Yeah, we reviewed that with the city engineer, and that's something that we looked at very early on, is how how do we end that frontage road where it's going to end there? It has to be a series of some handicap ramps that will be put in that accommodate the combination bike path, sidewalk that's going to connect there, that's going to go across the driveway approach. So there may have to be some rebuilding of that approach to the US bank. And then almost like a kind of like a modified knuckle, so to speak, at the end. So it's just not just this abrupt end. So that might even be some signage there telling everybody, you know, it's the end. And then in the future, you know, who knows what, what Smoketree wants to do with the rest of that frontage road in the future. So, but but we did look at it and we will address that in the design when the grading plans actually come in for design. And that's something we're going to pay close attention to because we want that to be a smooth transition.

So the city currently doesn't have any future plans for extending the walkway or bikeway or whatever on that frontage road in front of US bank, because it's still under. Well, it's still under the city purview, right? Correct. Yeah. I believe we can ask the question again when the applicant team speaks, because there may be some information they will share with us.

Okay. Thank you. I'll move on. Smoke Tree Lane so that I saw was a private road. My question is, with the Smoke Tree Ranch has an entrance off the end of that. And what? What is. They have an easement through that to get to that entrance. Yeah. And did you hear anything from Smoke Tree Ranch about the potential increased traffic caused by in and out.

So as I understand it, the ownership of the road is with them and they're involved in this process. Again, a representative is here. So I think we can ask when they come up, but we've not heard any concerns okay. All right. All right. And well I guess this will lead into it. But I'll just ask it now. It said in the staff report that there's currently parking on both sides. And so with the a smoke tree lane and with the addition of a new lane for in and out you're going to lose that parking. So does that have any impact on the overall parking for Smoke Tree Village. Has that been looked at?

Sure. The parking spaces that you're referring to on the Smoke Tree Lane, which could. You please. I read it in the staff report. That's why I brought it up. Is that. Yeah. It said said there was parking on both sides of it. So both sides. Oh, No, I'm not sorry. You're talking along the curb line of Smoke Tree Lane itself that there's parking. The staff report identified that there was parking currently on both sides of it. Oh. I think that's an error in the report. I and I just looked to the audience and our smoke tree representative confirms that there is no parking along that section of Smoke Tree Lane.

All right. Thank you. Condition 11 talks about adverse effects on health. And I'm just wondering if that should be looked at again, because with the potential of 42 cars stacking and with the added lane widening on Smoke Tree Lane, as well as the additional lane widening on the internal driveway, we're looking at potentially 67 cars stacking. And to me that's an adverse condition on health. And I'm just wondering if that's been considered. Which which condition are you.

Referring? 1111 under the under the conditions of approval. I'm. I don't know. I have to find. I mean. I should have written the page down, but.

We would need to have some reasonable evidence to suggest that there's a direct impact on public health. And there's a bit of a complicated answer here. This project is qualifies for an exemption under Sequa. Under state law, this qualifies as a class 32 infill exemption. There are certain categories of study that can be done to qualify for that exemption. But we have to have a reasonable basis by which we can require them for air quality. For example, I know a lot of concerns have been raised about the stacking of cars and, and, and air quality. And there's a couple of responses to that. One, even though the EV mandate that the state had had implemented for 2035 is likely off the table, the industry is moving to other EVs, hybrids or cars that I don't know the term for this, but their engines shut off while they're idling. And so we have seen and our sustainability director and I talked about this, we have seen a decline in vehicle based emissions at drive thrus, just based on on the evolution of that. More importantly, under Sequa, there is a size threshold by which we can reasonably expect there to be an impact related to air quality from idling cars based on the South Coast Air Quality Management District's guidelines for nonresidential uses, that's typically closer to 75,000ft. This is a 3800 square foot facility, so we don't have any reasonable basis or evidence on which to determine that there may be a public health impact or an air quality impact. So unless we have that evidence per Sequa, we can't require the study. We have no basis by which to require one. And therefore we feel the, the finding is met and that the exemption is valid.

Okay. You mentioned earlier that this doesn't require a cup. And this was built in 1970. And I'm just wondering if that original cup. Even though it identified a drive through, no one anticipated the kind of volume that we're potentially looking at with this project. So it's yeah.

It's actually a very important distinction. We're not saying that there was a cup that were that is effectively grandfathered. It's a very specific nuance in the zoning code applicable just to the commercial shopping centers, zoning that is on this site, the zoning. And this is the only zoning in the city that has this clause says specifically that drive through uses are permitted by right. If they were, the use of drive thrus is permitted by right if it was established at the time of the original development. So there was no cup ever granted, and one was never required because it was established as part of the original approval. So the code does not require a cup, nor can we require one, unlike on any other site in the city where one would be required. It's a very specific nuance, specific to this specific zoning that was written into the code 40 years ago.

So how how are conditions of approval enforced then, if there isn't the vehicle in place? Well, so we still have the development permit with all of the associated conditions of approval. So the conditions of approval are enforced the same way. But your purview is site planning and circulation rather than use the use is by right the use is established. We're now looking at site planning and circulation. And so all of the conditions are tied to that approval in a resolution the same way it would be, even if it was a cup.

Okay. But this is for engineering. I looked at the. So the US bank they're in and out off of East Palm Canyon or the frontage road, the radius for turning, for exiting and turning right is a much broader radius, which gives a car much more time to merge. And I'm just wondering, I'm sure that this this design is up to the current standards, but I'm just wondering whether something like that might be a better option. So I don't know if you have an aerial view of the US bank site, but. Are you are you talking about the other pork chop that's located near to the station.

To the west? Okay. And that thing's huge. Yeah, yeah, well it is. And I just thought it's, you know, there's something advantageous about it because it allows a car better merging, you know.

So it's I, somebody just came up with that design. Okay. Yeah. I don't have a good answer for you. It's just it's huge. There's nothing wrong with it. It could be done anywhere. It just takes up a lot more real estate. Okay. You know, I think you can achieve the same turning movement with a much smaller what we refer to as a pork chop. Right. It's just maybe the curbs are a little bit higher so nobody gets to cheat and to kind of make that left hand turn. The whole purpose of it is to restrict left hand turns. So and the other one's just really pronounced. It's just.

Yeah, yeah, I kind of liked it. But anyway, yeah. Let's see. I'll. Yeah. You mentioned that the parking lot tree coverage was 84%. Is that. Did I hear that correctly? Yes. Okay. All right I'll come back to that later. And in the code for screening of drive thrus is it either or it's plant planting or a site wall or mounding or what is how is it written.

The zoning code mentions a landscape balm can be used, but when it comes to the medium, it does not provide a specifically what needs to get done to provide a screening. So then the landscape can be utilized for screening or walls or low height screening can be utilized as well, but the code uses the word landscape berm. They're not proposing a berm though, are they? No, not to my knowledge, no. Okay. And then you mentioned about the site lighting not being in compliance. Is it just too bright? Is that.

Yes. So the specifications that need to be met and I can give you the information of. Exactly which specs do not meet as proposed as of now. So the minimum foot candle does not meet as proposed. So as average and. Maximum to minimum uniformity ratio and average to minimum uniformity uniformity ratio. So there's a certain numbers that need to be met. And the project or the outdoor lighting plan does not conform to those requirements as proposed. However, as staff mentioned the report, outdoor lighting can be changed without really altering the character of the project. So staff is recommending a conditions of approval that the project conforms to the outdoor lighting standards.

Okay. And that's it for staff. Thank you very much. Commissioner Murphy. I just have a couple things. One for engineering, and I'm going to let others on the commission address. This issue. But I wanted. To, I guess, express. My concern about the. Right turn. Egress coming out. Of the development. It does seem. To me to be pretty. Short for. Cars coming out. To then merge.

Onto Palm Canyon, when cars are also moving into the right lane to turn right onto Smoke Tree Lane. I don't know if that's a question for the shopping center owners or staff, but it is a concern I had. You don't have to address it now, but I just want to put put it out there. The other concern I had with was traffic flow. I might just want to address that, because I do think our engineers have looked at it and they've not flagged any safety concerns. So I think from the city engineer and the staff's perspective, there's no safety concern that's been identified by staff on that particular issue. I hear you, I don't just from a practical standpoint.

I guess I would ask what evidence you could provide. I don't have evidence. It's just looking at the distance from the egress to the corner is short. So if there's a lot of cars coming out of there, since. It was a question, I'm responding and saying staff looked at it and there's no concern. I think it would be good to have engineering respond to that. Actually, we'd all like to hear your answer.

So I want to make sure I understand your question. Right. So from the porkchop exit. Yes. To Smoke Tree Lane, that distance, is that what you're referring to? Okay. And what you're concerned about that distance as being. My I guess practical concern was the volume of cars exiting and the volume of cars preparing to turn right onto Smoke Tree Lane, that there's a potential for a lot of traffic trying to merge. Merge out and merge.

Merge out and merge it to make a right turn. It just and again, I don't have evidence of that. It's just looking at it from a commoner's perspective. It looks like it would be a problem. Sure. From a traffic standpoint.

I understand your question. We did look at that with the city engineer as to how that exiting works. And I did talk to the applicant about, you know, if that if that sweep going, making the right out of the development onto East Palm Canyon needs to be a little bit more pronounced, we can, you know, we can do that. It's easy to accommodate. And then that distance from that exit to Smoke Tree Lane, it didn't seem to be a concern of the city engineer or the traffic engineer who conducted the traffic study. It didn't seem to raise any alarms for merging or merging, and it's just it just wasn't a concern.

Okay, I hear that the other question I had or concern I had, and it was actually raised by one of the community members who wrote a letter, and I thought it was a good point, and it had to do with east west traffic flow from Smoketree Commons to Smoke Tree Village, and there is a fair amount of traffic, at least from what I've observed in using that shopping center. And the curb cut is pretty narrow, so there's not a lot of turning radius for cars coming in and out of commons, and they're going to be exiting from Smoke Tree Commons, taking a left and then a quick right into the Smoke Tree Village. And I'm just wondering if, if we are able to make a suggestion to the shopping center owner to consider widening that curb cut, which would be technically in Smoke Tree Commons. So I don't know if your engineers looked at that. Apparently from your your comment, they did not look at the shopping center traffic flow.

No, that's not that's not something that we would have looked at. But I'm sure you can make the suggestion to the shopping owner. Okay. The last question I have is for a director and that is around the what what purview do we have in making comments or suggestions on the architecture of this project? I know there's a subcommittee, and I read through the summary here. Do we have any purview at all in making comments during this hearing on the architecture?

I certainly think that you have the ability to make comments, and I certainly expect that you all will. Technically, the architectural design is not before you tonight. And I think what I would say is, you know, staff have a lot of recommendations that will be forwarded on to Architectural Review Committee if this proceeds and goes to them. There were a lot of comments that were provided by the subcommittee that have not yet been addressed. So, and I think that the applicant is aware of that and understands that they have work to do following tonight if they're able to move forward. So what I would suggest is that during your conversation, certainly feel free to give, as you have on prior applications, very clear recommendations to the Arc for things you would like to see in the Architectural Review and Landscaping.

Okay. Thank you. Yes.

A number of my questions have been previously asked, but I'm going to ask for some follow up, I think responses, and I'll start with engineering. There's a the multi use path that is going to be now extended across on the north side of the site obviously goes further to the east. There is a stop sign situation right now on Oak Tree Lane. Presumably for either that multi use path or the frontage road or a combination of both. It is a strange stop sign that my question will be if the front when the frontage road goes away, is it your intent that the stop sign would remain for the purpose of the pedestrian crossing?

Yeah, we would have to look at it on a case by case basis. Sometimes we do have little stop signs for combination sidewalk bike paths that do cross private roads, private driveway, or entering shopping centers just to make sure that pedestrians know that it's alive. Moving street. So there is a possibility that some of those little stop signs could make their way in there. Once it goes into plan, check, review, they'll look at that and make sure that those criteria through the what's called the MUTCD code are being met, along with Ada codes being met. So you could end up with a with another stop sign there.

The that because this is obviously the only sidewalk that is along the south side of East Palm Canyon. So pedestrians. Yeah, the sidewalk will currently runs from Smoketree Commons all the way to El Cielo. It's a 12 foot wide sidewalk all the way down.

Right? Yeah. But what I'm saying is that there's no sidewalk up at the direct intersection where you'd normally expect there to be a sidewalk at the intersection. So this is taking the place of that. And my concern mainly is coming southbound on Oak Tree Lane. There is less than two car lengths there. And so if there's a stop sign there, and perhaps there should be for safety of the pedestrians and bikers, you're going to have a pileup of cars for the volume of traffic that's going to be turning left to get on to Oak Tree Lane from the Cerritos, Palm Canyon. Left hand turn light the volume of traffic that's going to be coming to go to the drive through at this place. They have to go to Oak Tree Lane since it's a right in, right out only on East Palm Canyon. There's going to be a huge pileup of cars stopping for safety purposes. For those pedestrians. It's going to be a mess in less. That is looked at very carefully.

Yeah. Now I'm I'm looking at a street view of what you're what you're referring to the stop sign. I can I can tell you why the I, I was thinking the, the stop signs on the bike path entering the road. Because you guys are on the road. You might end up seeing those instead. This stop sign that was there was because of the frontage road that was there, and the frontage road would be going away. So that stop sign would go away.

Can we suggest that there should be stop signs for the bike and pedestrian path, so that they know that they need to watch for traffic? Because my I fear this could be a real safety issue if there's not any, you know, designated stop zone because it's so far away from the intersection that the expectation is out the window on safety. So you're suggesting stop signs for the bike path users? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.

The other issue, the question I have another one is on the South private drive on the south end of the site where the right turn is going to be put in on Oak Tree Lane, and then there'll be a dedicated, I guess pre drive through lane for stacking if necessary. There on that private road was I couldn't tell from the plans. I my guess is the answer is no. Anything on the plans would indicate that they were rebuilding that private road along the south. Or is it your understanding that they're just adding 9 or 10ft of extra lane there? That'll be the new lane and the existing private road and all of its potholes and poor condition are going to remain.

Well. It is a private road, but as part of their roadway design. So when their civil engineer actually submits the grading plans and the street improvement plans for plan check, that will be looked at, because they are going to be widening that road, and there is a very high possibility that they may have to grind out, you know, a good portion of that road, maybe out to center line and reconstruct it as part of the new improvements. So we're not going to just allow them just to add nine feet and just accept the roadway design as it is, there most likely will be some roadway design that has to be done.

Okay. And that kind of goes back to the question that somebody had about the lease. Is it a lease area or ownership, and is the site extending all the way south to Smoketree Ranch? Because that's critical, because if the site officially extends further south, then our purview has just extended further south in terms of making sure that that private road is completely rebuilt, which it needs to be. Over the ten years that I've lived in the area, the Band-Aid that's been put on that. That private road has not been efficient and effective, and it's a mess. No offense to the Smoketree ranch representatives that are here, but it's a mess. And you've heard it. I know, and you're going to hear it again from people in the public. But so I, I needed to know that that was not going to be in its current condition. And I think Commissioner Murphy mentioned that one of the letters that we got referred to, that let's move on to the north side of the site where the pork chop is, the right in and right out. And I had sent an email regarding a potential median on East Palm Canyon. And the city's response has been that a median is not doable on East Palm Canyon. That median would have ensured that the right in and right out actually functioned as a right in and right out. My fear is, if that pork chop is not designed appropriately, and I don't need to tell the engineers that there's a number of different ways of designing that pork chop for right in and right out. Some are more effective than others. It really needs to be designed in a way that not only discourages, but really prohibits left in movements from westbound traffic on East Palm Canyon and exiting maneuvers to

go westbound on East Palm Canyon as well from that, because that could really clog up that movement there. One example that I know around the city, that's relatively good in my view, but you can take a look at it and see it's a very low volume pork chop, but it's in front of the Genesis dealer further to the east on Palm Canyon. It's a relatively well designed pork chop. Again, it's a much lower volume, but take a look at that. I still have a concern about how that pork chop is going to function, although I again, I do understand the need to not allow left turns there that would really muck up East Palm Canyon. Let me just look at my notes here. Will eastbound Palm Canyon approaching Smoke Tree where it widens out there. And I think I saw a reference in the staff report to it essentially is a de facto right turn lane onto Smoke Tree for eastbound travel on Palm Canyon. Will that be signed or marked on the pavement, or is it the intent that it would just remain as a super wide eastbound lane?

No, they'll have to. As part of their street improvement plans, they'll have to put together some signing and striping plans as well. So that'll all get looked at. And does that is that answer the same for northbound Smoke Tree Lane itself? I thought I heard some reference. To somebody point to where you're you're referring.

So on the on the right side of the site, Smoke Tree Lane, which is the private road right now the light is relatively lightly used because you don't have a generator like in and out on the site. And oftentimes cars don't sort of respect the fact that right turns can happen. And then the left and straight movement on North on Smoke Tree Lane should be in one lane and the right hand turn lane movements should be able to have a dedicated lane so that that's a free flow once they've stopped. Otherwise that's going to be backed up further. So I think markings, pavement markings on Smoke Tree Lane approaching East Palm Canyon are going to be critical as well. So that would be something you'd normally look at.

Yeah they would look at it I don't know that we'll have enough right of way because we only have an easement in there for smoke lanes, private road. So you're talking as you approach the signal. Right. Right. So but isn't that it's at least 30 or more feet wide isn't it. Curb to curb. I don't know. But at the time you put in the 12 foot lanes for turn lanes and that sort of thing, I think that's the whole reason it's not striped that way now is because we have a right of way restriction. We can definitely, you know, look into it. But I'm pretty sure we're we're bound by the easement widths.

Well, we have an active site right to the west that we can request an additional couple of feet, right, to get some additional. It wouldn't I don't think there would be. Yeah. We're talking about moving if we move out to the West. Like what you're suggesting, there's a possibility you'd end up having to move signal mast poles. Some others. It's just the geometry I don't think would line up anymore. Okay. This is something that, you know, we looked at quite a bit.

Okay. And I think that is the last question for staff. Commissioner Baker. My question has already been addressed. I'll pass to Commissioner Lane.

Many of my questions have been addressed, but I do have a couple more. One is, Noriko, could you explain to us early on in your presentation, you indicated that you wanted to modify one of the conditions of approval, and it dealt with using outdoor amplified sound. Can you read that one again or repeat it?

Yes. The one that's shown on the screen. So as of right now, the planning condition number eight states exterior alarms and audio systems. No sirens outside the paging or any type of signalization will be permitted except approved alarm systems. But just to clarify, because what the applicant is proposing is a drive through and there will be actual speaker. So just to make sure that the use of speakers actually permitted and just to clarify, and that's the reason for modification.

Okay, it rose an issue that I hadn't thought of before, and that is that I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the operations at a fast food establishment. And this is one that, like some others we have in town, are near residential development, in this case across the street. What are the types? And as this was modified as is appropriate for the operations, I'm wondering, are there other types of complaints that residents, when near a fast food establishment, experience complaints that they haven't, that the city hears about, that we should be vigilant for? One that comes to mind might be odors.

Yeah. I mean, I'm certainly aware of those kinds of complaints in other jurisdictions here in Palm Springs. I think just based on where a lot of these types of facilities are, I certainly in the time I've been here, I'm not aware of a lot of complaints about odor or noise. Sometimes the headlights associated with the drive through aisles. And that's why we have the screening requirements. And I'm sure we'll talk about that more. So I'm not aware of anything in the city of Palm Springs, but I have heard in other residential neighborhoods things like odor and sound. So where there are establishments that have the speakers for the drive through, do we get complaints from residents about those.

Not in the city of Palm Springs that I'm aware of? I do think it's a conversation we can have with the applicant to understand their operational needs, and then perhaps revisit this condition appropriately to make sure that it's, you know, obviously, the drive through is going to have a speaker. And as written, it almost reads as though it precludes that. And that is something we allow. That's a standard condition of approval. But obviously Starbucks, McDonald's, all the other drive thrus in the city have drive through speakers. But I think let's ask what their operational needs are and then determine how we can mitigate any of those concerns.

Obviously, we've had correspondence and communications about concerns about traffic, the stacking of cars, potential air quality impacts, and just plain congestion in the area, and more of those. I was just wondering if there were anything else that you hear about that we don't. So thank you for that. Okay. I had a question that one of the other commissioners, Mr. Brotman, brought up 84% shade in the parking lot. I'm looking at the drawings and I'm looking at the drawings, and I counted spaces that could possibly be covered and. It's that. Because my concern. Is that true? My concern is twofold. First of all, the applicant is proposing double the number of parking spaces that they need or that are required. And then secondly, it looks like there's a sea of parking without much in the way of shade. And especially when I marry it up against landscape plans. And if you put a 24 inch box or a 36 inch box in there and wait ten years, I'm still not sure that I'm seeing that kind of coverage. How is that calculated? I guess is my question.

The applicant provided the parking lot shading analysis, and that's the number that was noted on the plan.

Okay. That was their self report. All right. Thank you on that. Let's see. There was also a little bit of discussion about architecture. And this of course is not the Architectural Review Committee. Nonetheless we are asked to make some findings that. Establish that the architecture excuse me, that the project complies with the general plan. And when I look at the land use element and when I look at the community divine design element, I'm just plain not seeing it. So is it fair game to make comments or add conditions that would address that? If we believe that that the project as proposed does not comply with those elements of the general plan?

Certainly your findings to make. And so certainly to the extent that you believe there is a disconnect with the general plan, certainly conditions of approval to address that are within your purview. That's appropriate. All right. Thank you. And if only I could read my handwriting. Okay. One of the other I think Commissioner Miller covered that one. So I'm good.

Thanks. So many of my questions have been asked. But going back to what what Commissioner Lane just raised. We there. Is there a way to approve this if we are uncomfortable with the architecture?

Right. What I would recommend and you have already there's already a joint subcommittee of the Planning Commission and Arc that has met once and provided a lot of feedback. I think, you know, the applicant can certainly speak to their thinking on on the architectural design and how they want to move forward. But if that is a source of concern for the commission, I think you're certainly and based on commissioner, Vice Chair Allen's discussion of the findings that you need to make. You know, one thought is that this gets effectively conditionally approved and sent in back to that subcommittee for redesign before it proceeds into its major architectural review to address, you know, the architectural details, landscaping, whatever items you may raise tonight. That's one idea.

And can it be required that it's to the satisfaction of the subcommittee?

I mean, as an they are they are, as an applicant, able to move forward with an application right at their own risk. Risk. Thank you. I was going to say peril. Risk. So I don't know how firm that can be. Like I don't think you can keep them hostage in the subcommittee. But certainly all of that feedback would be provided to the Architectural Review Committee, of which at least two members are currently sitting with an understanding of what they have and have not addressed.

My understanding because I. I guess I chat to rather than just googled it. They've done alternate kinds of architecture in Las Vegas, in Westwood, and in a few other cities where they they changed the architecture to match the location that they're in.

So we are also aware of those examples. We've we've had that conversation with the applicant team. I don't want to speak for them. I think that they should certainly speak for themselves, but we have certainly flagged for them that Palm Springs has a very specific esthetic and a very specific attention to architectural details and architectural design, and that we have strongly advised that they look at doing something that fits in more with the context of Palm Springs.

Thank you. I have a few more questions. The pork chop for engineering, just to concern about how the headlights on that of the traffic going out would impact the housing that's across the street. Is there any way that that that as you design it, you can design it in such a way that we're not flashing into somebody's front yard or front window? Is there anything that you can do to shade it or to. Is there. I'm sorry. Is there anything to do?

I'm worried about headlights across the street with the with the pork chop.

Sure. You know, we can definitely talk to their design team about making that exit and entrance. Same with Commissioner Murphy and Miller's concerns with the pork chop. And, you know, maybe looking at making it a little bit more pronounced, a little bit more, you know, angular so that it it, you know, you try to avoid that. I think there's plenty of space there to do that to accommodate that. We can definitely look at the geometry of that and make sure that it's safe. We want to make sure that it's, you know, even though we have an old design like that, that's a little bit to the further to the West, it may not meet current standards or current code. So but we can definitely have that conversation.

Okay. I would say if you look at the residential development that is directly across from where that is, and I certainly think we need to look at it and can. We don't have that up. I don't. Think I'm just looking on Google Maps. Sorry. I'm just it really there is a lot of screening and there aren't a lot. There isn't a lot of there aren't a lot of windows on that side of that residential development, but certainly we should look at it further.

I get it. Yeah. It's just. If there's ways we can I understand. But I'm, I'm cautious for the people if there's if it can be mitigated. The same question, I think I heard the answer that the not just the sound but the traffic, the lights of the cars that are in, in queue could be mitigated. And it looks like it's as they're turning and as they're going with it can be either a wall or dense landscape or berm. Yeah, yeah. And, and I don't know if that has been planned to be mitigated or not, but it's I'd be concerned. I have concerns about those lights as they flash across and just also coming into oncoming traffic. But there are ways that we can we can deal with that or suggest, okay, the other concern I had was, was and this shopping center is probably the most neighborhood serving, the one I like to go to the most in the city. And even though it's old, they're really good things about it. But one of the things is that you can walk across it. And what I don't see and I don't looking for directions, but it's along the frontage road that connects to Ace Hardware. There's there isn't a sidewalk on either side, and I think it's important that we honor the pedestrians and we also so that

we have some. And that's something both sides of that road are in our parcel or they're not in our parcel. They are today one parcel, I believe, and I think that the applicant and the Smoke Tree representative can speak to this further. The intention is that the sidewalk would be on the south side at the time that that parcel develops. But I hear the concern, and I think we can talk to the applicant about that and potential solutions.

Okay. And then I share, Commissioner, I share most of the concerns that have been raised, but I share Commissioner Elaine's concerned about trees. And this is, I believe, a chance where we can require we can require or ask that we require that the wells be large enough, that the tree roots can be supported and the trees can be watered and they can grow. Unlike in most other shopping centers in the city, where there isn't enough room for the tree to grow. And do we have we have, do we have? Can we require a maintenance plan for the trees in the landscape?

I believe so it's probably more squarely an architectural review consideration. But but I think we can sort the details out. Certainly I my recommendation would be that it be confirmed at the time prior to certificate of occupancy to give us time to, you know, get it all installed and figure that out.

The only other concern I have is the pedestrian crossway that crosses over. Smoke Tree Lane, and it's pretty far back, is there? Did staff look at moving that a little bit further out, even though it's supposed to be under, so that it's safer to cross?

The connection between the new one and the existing one in front of the old Coco's? Yeah, I think it's where it is, because that's where it comes out on the other side. So there wasn't really much ability to relocate. I can't speak to any analysis of safety. So it's that's that's the reason. And so obviously that would be striped. But could it also be flashed so it could show drivers when somebody's crossing? I don't know if we can actually do that on. We can discuss it with with their traffic engineer.

Right. If you wanted it to be something that we look at further and do if possible, I think we could certainly. Do that. I think. That's but I wouldn't want to speak to whether you know it because. Of the. Distance or the intersection, it's there.

But I'm I'm just worried. I drive this a lot because I actually cross the highway and go home that way. So and I've, you know, because of the frontage road, I really haven't seen people crossing there. But if people are going to be crossing there, I want to make sure that it's not where I'd expect them to be. And so I want them to be safe. I think that's. I think that's it.

Sure. I have one more question. Yes, it has to do with the hours of operation. In the applicant's letter, they said that they plan to operate till 1 a.m. In the morning, during the week and 1:30 a.m. On weekends. And so my question is, are you aware of other establishments that have hours that, you know, run that late and then and then, you know, with the amplified noise at that hour, is there some condition that we can apply to mitigate that?

There are certainly other drive through restaurants. I believe there are some that are open 24 hours in the city. Okay. Again, I think let's hear the operational need of In-N-Out. They have a lot of experience doing this, and I would want to give them the benefit of explaining to us how they might mitigate that concern, because they may have better ideas than I do. But I do think that's something that we can discuss when you get to the point of if you're getting to the point of a motion. Okay. Thank you. There are several drive thrus that are open 24 hours in the city. The McDonald's by us in front of Stater Brothers, for example. You're not eating 2 a.m. Cheeseburgers, I.

Take it. Really? Do you have another question? Yes, I have two questions I forgot on the traffic study. One is what is an unacceptable level of service? Is it do you have to drop down to level of service D before it becomes unacceptable? Okay. So of the six intersections that were studied, there was only one that dropped one level and it is still well above A level D okay. The other thing is that we. I love reading traffic studies. I will never be a transportation engineer, but it's just fascinating.

Somebody does.

Yeah. It's fascinating what they can come up with. And I tend to trust them. Trust transportation engineers and the traffic studies because it's a field of expertise that I do not possess. That being said, we receive. Several letters from people who were concerned about the traffic and congestion that was possible. And one gentleman in particular was citing some specific numbers relative to the number of vehicle trips per day that would be increased by and the numbers that he cited were completely different from anything represented in the traffic study that we got. So this is just kind of a general question. Are you comfortable with was there any kind of peer review? Does the city engineer take a look at the transportation or the traffic study to make sure that we believe that these numbers are an accurate reflection of what we will see?

Yes. So we do look at the studies. We do have people that review these things. And again, we also rely a lot on the traffic engineers who produce these things because it is quite the amount of schooling that is required to put these things together. But Jonathan is able to kind of give you some more insight as to those numbers and what they mean.

So and before you do that, also one of the, the, the one gentleman who called in mentioned some streets that weren't studied, and I was wondering if you had a response to that.

As it relates to the numbers question, the traffic scoping analysis that was done prior to the traffic impact analysis generation, the numbers were reviewed by our plan checkers, and the numbers that they provided were using empirical data that was more conservative than what would ordinarily be used. And the bypass sort of numbers that they use in this was actually still even more conservative than that. So all the trip generation is generating more than what would typically be assumed, because they know it's an in and out and not just any other sort of drive through as it relates to the additional streets that were brought up by the applicant that had called in, I believe they are referring to the frontage roads on the northern portion of Cerritos of the intersection there. And for those ones, they're based on an old design. So anybody meaning to turn out of those frontage roads onto East Palm Canyon, you can only queue up 1 to 2 cars before you're anybody coming from those frontage roads are incapable of trying to also queue up while you have additional people coming southbound on Cerritos. It's an old design that was done when those developments came in. There's not much in terms of mitigation that would be possible at this point in time.

I would like to add to that those frontage roads that are on the north end of the intersection, that's something that we would turn over to our principal engineer for the city and see if it would something that they could review as part of maybe a measure J project, something that they could do for timing, something they could do for queuing, but it's not something that would be part of this traffic review. But you would be able to do that. Yeah, we've already had a discussion with him and sent him an email letting him know, you know, this is a concern of some residents there, but it's not something that this traffic study is going to solve.

I understand that, but if we can get that information through, that would be great. Yep. Okay. Shall we open the public hearing? Just it's gone a little bit long. Does anyone need a break before we open the public hearing? Okay. The public hearing is open. If the applicant would come forward, we're going to give you ten minutes. And then we'll open it to the public, and then we'll bring you back up.

Control room. Can you turn on the speaker mic?

Good evening, honorable chair and fellow planning commissioners. My name is Peter Kulmatycki and I'm a development manager with In-N-Out burger. I'm excited to be here this evening to propose our first location within the City of Palm Springs. First, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank staff, especially Noriko Kikuchi, Chris Hadwin, and Rick Majerus on their hard work and responsiveness during the development review process. Their constant communication and coordination is truly impressive and should be recognized. I will keep my remarks brief, but I would like to spend a few moments touching on the history and culture of In-N-Out burger. In-N-Out burger was founded in 1948 by Harry and Esther Snyder in Baldwin Park, California. Now more than 76 years after they opened that very first location. With over 400 stores operating in eight states, In and Out is still a family owned business. Every single In-N-Out burger is privately owned and operated. We do not franchise Harry and Esther's granddaughter, Lynsi Snyder, is the owner and president of In-N-Out, and she continues this legacy with our core values of quality, service, and community. Our motto is quality you can taste. All of our food is made to order, and there isn't a single heat lamp, microwave or freezer to be found in any of our kitchens. We are committed to only the freshest ingredients, with hamburger patties made from 100% American beef that is boned and ground from whole trucks by In-n-out's own butchers and delivered fresh, never frozen to each of our stores. Milkshakes are made from real ice cream. We hand leaf all our iceberg lettuce, and our French fries are hand diced in store from fresh whole potatoes. In addition to a quality product, we are renowned for our emphasis on customer service. At In-N-Out, every customer receives service with our signature smile, and your meal will be exactly as you order it. At In-N-Out, we

understand that our associates are the cornerstone of our success. We foster a team oriented atmosphere that encourages growth, provides extensive training, and ensures that every associate feels valued and supported. Glassdoor routinely names In-N-Out burger on its annual list of best places to work in the United States for 2025. Glassdoor named In-N-Out as the number three best place to work, and was the only restaurant to be named in the top ten Places to Work. This commitment translates into a positive environment that benefits not only our team, but the service we provide to every customer. In-N-Out burger is proud to contribute to the economic vitality of the communities where we operate. Our new location within the City of Palm Springs will create numerous local job opportunities, including approximately 50 or more store associate positions, plus additional store management and corporate support opportunities. It will also provide competitive wages and comprehensive benefits that support career growth and stability beyond employment. Our operations stimulate local economic activity, encouraging spending and supporting nearby businesses. Then economic benefit extends further as the revenue generated by our business helps support public service, infrastructure improvements and community programs. This positive ripple effect reinforces our dedication to not just being a place where people come to dine, but a business that plays an active role in bolstering the economic health of Palm Springs. Our investment in the city translates to sustained growth and prosperity for its residents and the wider community. Community is what has shaped In-N-Out burger since 1948. As part of our mission statement, we are committed to assist all communities in our marketplace to become a stronger, safer and better place to live. We work with a variety of organizations

seeking support with their fundraising efforts, including nonprofits, schools, youth sports, city events, and much more. The company operates two foundations the In-N-Out Burger Foundation, founded in 1984 by Esther Snyder, which focuses on helping abused and neglected children, and two the Slave to Nothing Foundation, which was established in 2016 to help improve the lives of individuals and families affected by substance abuse and human trafficking. In-N-Out burger underwrites all the administrative costs of these foundations, so that 100% of the money raised is given back to our communities. I invite you to visit the websites for these foundations to find out more about the great things these foundations do, and why, and how we support the causes that remain close to the heart of the company. These foundations support local agencies in the communities where we serve. Over the years, we have supported numerous organizations throughout the Greater Palm Springs area. From 2023 to 2025, our in-kind donations, spirit night fundraising, sports sponsorships, and cookouts have totaled approximately $1 million. We consider ourselves members of each and every community we operate in, and are proud to give back in the ways that we can. Our goal is to be more than a restaurant. We aim to be a trusted and supportive community partner. I would like to briefly touch on our site plan. We were careful in balancing pedestrian connectivity with vehicular circulation. This was done not only internally, but also in conjunction with the Smoke Tree Shopping Center. In addition, a right turn pocket along Smoke Tree Lane and widening along the Common Center Drive aisle to the south ensure no conflicts with our traffic or drive through queue. We recognized that it would be important to have a landscape buffer between the drive thru and outdoor patio, as well as enhanced landscape along

the paseo adjacent to East Palm Canyon. Environment. Environmental considerations, including an energy efficient building that utilizes cool roof, solar efficient windows, and modern comforts such as patio misters at our outdoor patio. With that, I'd like to thank you this evening and on behalf of In-N-Out, we look forward to becoming a part of the Palm Springs community, and I want Tracy to come up and have a few words from Smoke Tree Ranch. Thank you.

Good evening, esteemed commissioners. I want to also thank staff for all their hard work on our behalf over the last months. My name is Tracy Conrad. I'm chief operating officer at Smoke Tree Ranch, and I'm here representing the board of Smoke Tree Ranch. I want to say that Smoke Tree predates the city by many decades, and we have been excellent stewards of our community as well as our land. And smoke tree decided in the 1960s to have a shopping center here, and it comports with the general plan. And it's got a community shopping center designation. Many of us over the last few years thinking about the redevelopment of the shopping center and this parcel in particular, have thought about adjudicating the wisdom of that decision in the 1960s. And I hear that in all of your concerns and the community's concerns, and I'm deeply grateful that the commission takes that so seriously. Having previously sat in your seats. But I want to assure you that Smoke Tree has taken all of those issues to heart, and we care very deeply, respectfully. It's going to affect Smoke Tree more than anybody. And so we have studied this before coming before you for a long time. We need a vibrant and productive shopping center. That decision was made. It's already a shopping center. So if we're going to have one, it might as well be utilized. Well, it might as well be vibrant and productive. The decrepit and empty buildings along Palm Canyon that plague our shopping centers, our crime hotspots,

they they cause us to have security concerns and Smoke tree thoughtfully looked at many different possibilities for how to do this. And we've come to you with a exceptional tenant that rejuvenates the area, in our opinion. We looked at landscaping, traffic, lighting, noise, smell, you name it. We have we have had those conversations. This is a separate parcel. The shopping center is combined is comprised of multiple parcels. Smoke tree owns the underlying land for all of it. So we are aware of the global issues that you're addressing. And we come to you with this parcel. But that's not the end of what we are looking at. These parcels were developed in excess of 50 years ago, and so we're going to deal with them as we are able to smoke. Tree Lane is a private road, and there is no parking on either side of it. We have signs to that to that effect, but it is not striped red. It's our entrance, one of our entrances. And so we are keenly aware of what this is going to do. And for that reason, we talked extensively to In and Out about how to accommodate those concerns. And they have been very accommodating. We have a deceleration lane all the way from sunrise to Smoke Tree Lane. And just so you know, it does extend beyond in front of Coco's. For those of you that are concerned about how much space there is for that right hand turn out of the pork chop, you could continue going east across Smoke Tree Lane. And there's more. There's more road with with which to merge onto the two lanes. That will be the two existing lanes of smoke of highway 111. So it drastically improves the circulation. We are

very aware of the frontage road. We hate the frontage road. It causes accidents and confusion and I'm a lot older than Rick, so I was around when we vacated the portion in front of Coco's in order to solve half of the frontage road problem, we have to solve this half now and we have the opportunity to do it. The frontage roads on the other side of 111 are are our problem. And I get it. Caltrans was trying to solve a problem many years ago when there was less traffic. It's that that's a pickle that we don't pretend we can solve. But taking out the frontage road on this side will make a huge difference, because the confusion at the stop sign will be less. This is a over two acre parcel. The. For comparison, the Rancho Mirage In and Out burger is a half an acre. We think we've driven the traffic onto the parcel and off of the public roads in a way that protects Smoke Tree Lane. That's how we get home. So there is still the same lane going south on Oak Tree Lane to the to the gate. And we've created on the parcel a turnout to another lane. That is your reviled, the reviled. We call that the drive aisle that is so poorly paved. And it was because it's waiting for this redevelopment. It will be paved, and it will have a third lane that's dedicated to go into this parcel, which is a huge improvement. There will still be egress and ingress to Smoke Tree Village and believe me, Smoke Tree debated long and hard about whether we want to keep the drive aisle. It wasn't originally there in the Bank of America parcel. It was you could not go through to Smoke Tree Lane from the Ace Hardware and US Bank parcel for many years. We opened that with lots of unintended consequences. We knew

were going to happen, because people like that road to go east west. So anyway, it's a large parcel and the traffic is contained on the parcel. We believe the shopping center, it has a master lessee and they want this development. They believe it's going to do nothing but help the Smoke Tree Village, as well as Smoke Tree Commons. We are keenly aware of cyclists. My husband is a major cyclist and a user of the C-v link. The 12 foot multi-use pathway is contiguous with the one that's in front of the erstwhile Coco's, and it will drastically improve the circulation for cyclists and pedestrians. And it continues that meandering signature Palm Springs path that is all over the city that you know, it's getting implemented in pieces, that the there will be prodigious shade canopies in and understands the need for large trees immediately. And we care about landscaping and screening and the it's important that we have that we have shade and make it a usable site for all its customers. As I said, the drive aisle will be paved and pedestrian access across it will be accommodated. How we decide to do that? On which side? It will be three lanes wide now and it most likely needs to go on the southernmost portion of the parcel, which is currently vacant land and Smoketree has control of that smoke tree is aware of the frontage road. As I said, we have worked very hard to get it off the general plan back in the last iteration of the general plan we funded, taking it out in front of Coco's and the continuation of it along in

front of the Commons. And this is a continuation of that effort. Understand that there is a third lane that's being proposed for the entirety of highway 111, from Sunrise to Smoke Tree Lane. That deceleration lane allows for traffic to merge in and out of the pork chops, and the and smoke tree is aware of the problems that are in front of US bank, as well as in front of the gas station, and we're working with our master lessee as well as US bank to. We will address that when we are able to. We are aware of the global issues. Let's see. I smoke tree understands the architecture issue and we have decided we would go in a stepwise fashion to come to you. The land uses allowed by zone. Now we have the circulation plan and in order to get to the architecture, we have to go in a stepwise fashion. So I'd ask you to let us move on to that, to that next step, and we will fight it out at AAC. As a previous planning Commissioner, I understand that there is no place other like Palm Springs. Believe me, I do. And in and Out is aware as well. Now what they can do within their corporate guidelines, we will have to see. But before we get to that point, they have they have to have some assurance that that the site plan will be allowed and that they can spend money to develop those architectural drawings. I want to answer a few of your questions. If I if I could, I tried to take some notes. The driveway that goes into the commons. I think that was you, Mr. Murphy. That's a substandard driveway. And it's in between

Coco's and the Smoke Tree Inn. And it also was added in an ad hoc way, which we are very aware of. And when the potential when the possibility happens and it it should be in the near term that will be widened so that there will be the same thing that you're talking about a left hand turn lane, a right hand turn lane only, and the traffic that is going both north and south will have its own dedicated lane, so you don't have to wait for a car coming in and out in order to be able to use that driveway. The end of Smoke Tree Lane is got the stop sign. It does have sensors underneath it, and it was reconfigured when we took out the frontage road in front of Coco's. It's problematic as I said, and it will be improved in our opinion when you take out the other side because there are cars coming from the frontage lane in front of the this site, trying to merge into that funny intersection, and it's acknowledged as a mess and this is a solution for it. As I said, I'm older than Rick and how we vacated that was 20 years ago. And so we've waited a long time for the opportunity to release this site and be able to solve this problem. So the drive aisles will be the drive aisle will be rebuilt, the frontage road will be removed, the sidewalk the meandering sidewalk will will be constructed. And let's see. I believe that there is landscaping and quite a distance between these cars that are going to be exiting as there is exits now from the bank, both of the driveways, it's really far to the residential properties across Palm Canyon.

And so I don't think that there will be any dramatic increase in that. In that effect, it's far away. There's the highway intervening or Palm Canyon, no longer highway 111. But anyway, I thank you for your kind attention. I stand ready to answer any of your questions, and I hope that we can move forward for rejuvenating the shopping centers. Thank you.

Sure. Our first in chamber speaker will be Steve Kluth, followed by Thomas Farnsworth.

Hello, my name is Steve Kluth and I live in the Sahara Park mobile home community on the south side. In regards to the proposed In-N-Out restaurant on East Palm Canyon. First, I'd like to say I'm very much in favor of the proposed restaurant. With the current empty lots and eyesore, and this is now, it will be a massive improvement. However, I do have one significant issue with one aspect of the proposal. It's already been brought up, and this proposal has a highly dangerous right on, right off turn on eastbound Palm Canyon. I'm opposed to this for two reasons. First, these roads are a significant hazard to pedestrian safety. These access points frequently injure pedestrians when the commission members may not walk in Palm Springs. I do, including frequently on this stretch of Palm Canyon. I also see other cyclists and pedestrians here. Allowing this access point will be a serious hazardous, will be a serious hazard to pedestrians, especially at a restaurant where people are more concerned with what they are going to order than some pedestrian or cyclist actually using the sidewalk. Second, this will interfere with traffic on Palm Canyon. Traffic is already a mess on Palm Canyon, especially the stretch from Sunrise Way to Ferrell Drive. Adding another access point will undoubtedly make this traffic worse, as traffic backs up on East Palm Canyon. Even worse will be will happen when a driver inevitably decides that a railroad doesn't mean they can't turn left, and the lack of a center divider on Palm Canyon at Smoke Tree Lane means it's some idiot will do this, regardless of the safety issue, Rancho Mirage did not allow In-N-Out to include a right turn on Palm Canyon when one was recently built in their city. I don't see Palm Canyon. Why Palm Springs should grant the permit with one. There will be still three other access points for drivers to access the restaurant. Again, I strongly support the

restaurant. I just urge that the permit includes the condition that the railroad be absolutely removed from the plan, not just mitigated, but removed. I'd hate to see someone injured simply because the commission disregarded the safety issues of railroads in this sort of situation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I don't have any speaker cards for anyone in the audience, but if anyone else wishes to speak otherwise, I'm going to call on Terry Baker. You may unmute yourself and you have three minutes.

Yes, sir. My name is Terry Baker. I have a property in saddle Rock gardens, which is immediately across from Coco's. I live on Cerritos Drive, 1650 6AA couple of concerns. I'm trained as a civil engineer and my experience with traffic is that it tends to feel like water, and it follows the path of least resistance. So one of the concerns I have with the right in, right out is that if you cannot make a left turn to go back downtown when exiting this thing, you will go down Cerritos. You will turn onto Sonora and you will all ultimately end up on sunrise. So Cerritos is largely a residential street. There's already issues with speed on it. If you add more traffic to it, it will become a major artery. So one of the concerns, of course, is the right in, right out. I wonder how much traffic percentage increase that this will create on 111. Never mind the side streets. And also how much study was done on, say, the Sonora sunrise intersection, or for that matter, the intersection that will feed into this thing. I am not opposed to the restaurant. I think I agree with previous speakers that this lot the bank was an eyesore, was definitely an eyesore, and that if there's an opportunity to put something productive there, it's a great idea. Not crazy about 1 a.m. Or 1:30 a.m. Traffic, but again, it will add to the situation. So those are those are the major concerns, I think, of the people at saddle Rock gardens, and I suspect as well at the diplomat and other residences along there. So if there's some way with traffic

lights or as you're talking about medians and so on, that you can restrict this sort of traffic concerns, that would be very much appreciated. Thank you. And someone who is online who is identified as saddle Rock, you can unmute yourself and you have three minutes. Hi.

My name is Dave Heyer. I live at saddle Rock gardens and I. I'm for the project, but I would like to see the planning commission table this and return it to staff for further study. And another hearing. The new traffic flows will impact the shopping center, the neighborhood and the traffic impact analysis was not included for the Cerritos Palm Canyon Smoke Tree intersection and signaling. And it should really be included because it's very important to deal with the traffic, the trips per day on some of these facilities. I've seen it over 7000 trips per day, 95% plus of those vehicles will be going through that intersection, which you have not studied. And produced a Tia. I'd like to see recent traffic count during high season with 2025 or at least 2024 numbers. So we can see what really the impact will be, because the backup onto. Smoke Tree is going to be tremendous. You've added a lane in there to account for it, but I'm not sure that's going to that's going to handle it. Smoke tree is not very wide. And it it appears to me that it's going to need at least five lanes to accommodate a right turn, a left turn, a center lane, a lane getting into the shopping center in the queuing lane. And there's currently no protected left and right turn on Cerritos and Smoke Tree, so you have to wait for

all the all the turning traffic before you can have any through traffic to get to the neighborhoods. And was there a traffic analysis done that shows the crash records and the severity rate of the of the accidents? Some are residents in the in the complex were in major accidents there and tremendously impacted their life. Another item is the bank use was done years and years ago and the traffic impact of the restaurant will be far more than the bank ever saw. And there's still problems there. McDonald's backs up to the east and affects the shopping center and Smoke Tree residents currently back up, sometimes all the way back to the highway during high periods when there's lots of people stopping at the gate that don't have the automatic access to go through the gate. Thanks for your time. And please take this into consideration.

No one else has their hand raised, but if anyone is online and wishes to speak, please raise your hand now. I see no further speakers. Madam chair. Thank you. If the applicant. And Tracy would come back up. I think we have some questions. I'd like you to talk a little more about your operation and what you need for it, how it how it works.

Or just in general, or the. Hours of operation. Not the hours, but queuing. How how people go through the lanes, what the noise level of your speakers is a whole, you know, just how it how this operates. So in. Control Room can we have the speaker back on?

So in regards to the speaker, there is volume control on both the drive thru ordering speaker box as well as the outdoor paging system at the outdoor patio. If an order were to be called out. So that can be volume controlled, and we are more than happy to agree to any conditions to meet the noise ordinance levels of the City of Palm Springs in regards to the drive thru queue. And I'll just say this that this project I've worked on since inception, deeply personal to me. All my projects within an in and out are deeply personal to me. We were careful in how we studied queue length right. The traffic report identifies a max queue at observed locations in La Quinta and Rancho Mirage. Of 32. That's not an 85th or 95th percentile. That's a maximum. We're proposing a dedicated queue of 42 here. That doesn't mean that 42 cars will show up, but the traffic report is assuming that we can accommodate the max that are observed at similar locations. In addition to that, we're providing queue beyond the dedicated queue that wraps around the bulb at the start of the dedicated queue, and wrapping that around to a to a drive aisle that is solely within our premises. Taking that one step further, we even have a right over calling a right Decel Lane. So in the very unlikely event that we stack beyond 42, we do not want to impact any of the adjacent internal or external roadways.

And I'll just ask the questions because I frequent you a lot. So I just want to say that. So I've noticed things in in Rancho Mirage, your queue extends way out into the parking lot and doesn't kind of stay in. And how long is that queue? That dedicated queue is 23 cars. So 23 cars. And you usually go out beyond that, don't you. Correct. And that's why I told you about that observation of 32. That would suggest going beyond the dedicated queue of 23.

The other thing that I've observed is and you've got a covering for staff that's out, either it's automatic or their staff out there with iPads that are taking taking orders, but they tend to be further down the queue from anything automatic and they move. And I'm wondering, are you sure there's enough shading for the kind of movement that your staff does with the iPads to keep traffic going.

So that associate, what we call the associate canopy can accommodate what I'll call two associate staff taking orders. I did discuss this internally before this hearing. We have the option to grow that associate canopy to cover four cars instead of two. But we do have risk management policies in place, especially in light of the environment and heat, that if the temperature exceeds 95 degrees outside, we're not going to have outdoor order taking at 90 to 94 degrees. We limit the outdoor associate to about one hour and then have to rotate. So we are cognizant of, you know, heat conditions and the environment that they're operating in. The associate canopy is just to help there to relieve that heat stress on our associates.

If it's 117 degrees hot. So at that point we'd be taking orders from within the restaurant. But we do have cameras, big screen TVs within the back of House of the kitchen that are monitoring the drive through to ensure an efficient operation so we can employ a third grill to speed up through traffic. And so we have those measures in place to speed up the queue. So speeding up the delivery of food. Correct. And what percentage of your people park and walk in because they think they'll get through the queue faster if they walk through the front door?

That is a great question. You know, if I if me personally, if I see a long queue, I will walk in. But everybody's different. There are instances where, you know, they're they're a parent and they have a young child in the car and they don't want to exit and wake up the baby and take them into the dining room. If Covid taught us anything, dining rooms could be closed down for some considerable amount of time. So there are instances where the drive thrus are are critical. We operate our restaurants, so our customers are familiar with our hours, familiar with what they expect to get from In-N-Out. And the hours. What do you expect? Are you open at breakfast? What hours are you starting.

Sunday through Thursday, 1030 to 1 and Friday and Saturday 1030 to 1:30 a.m. So no breakfast. No breakfast. Coffee, coffee. Okay. I just wanted us to get a picture of what you're doing before I open it up to the commission's questions of you. And why don't I do that now and then? I'll come back to myself later. Commissioner Rotman, do you have questions?

I do. So your hours of operation are the later hours. Are you open both for in store dining and drive through? Yes you are. So it's okay. All right. And then what is. Can I just add something that was. That's something that Smoke Tree sees as a major improvement to security for the entire area. Because the restaurant is staffed and there's people there. And so it should help us.

Okay. And then what is a typical turnover time for when somebody places an order till the time they actually can pick the food up? Another great question. There's a little bit of a nuance to this. If you are the first car up at 10:30 a.m, I would say approximately 4 to 5 minutes from the time that you placed your order to pick up at the pickup window. Now, if you were the second or third car at that 1030 time frame, our cooks may have already laid down a patty to improve that time frame for the second and third car. So once that queue starts to be built up, I would expect that cars are moving every 30s to about a minute.

Really? Correct? Okay. And. How does with all the stores that you have, what kind of stacking do you get at your most your busiest facilities? How does that compare to what the. In the traffic study they identified Rancho Mirage and La Quinta. I'm just wondering how it compares with some of your other stores that may be busier or.

So. Another great question. You know, we're we're operating in eight states now and we're expanding into further states. So if you were talking about an out-of-state location where there's a great draw, a lot of commotion, a grand opening, we may we may have a long queue for an established market. California. You know, I think it's very prudent to look at the surrounding stores and look at those max queues and learned and learn from what we what cuz we had built prior to where we are today. You know, it wasn't uncommon for in and out to design stores with a queue of 20 cars ten years ago now, you know, 20 cars isn't sufficient because the data is showing a you have a max of 32 and I can't come here and present to you and say we can accommodate it unless our traffic study and what they've analyzed supports it. So with that said, I'm really comfortable with the 42 dedicated queue that we have currently.

Okay. So one of the things is about landscape buffering the drive through. And I would be in favor of either berming or erecting a wall, as opposed to just using landscaping. And do you have any issues with that?

I think we'd prefer to keep it. The landscaping, I think our landscape architect, our design team, is really in tune with adhering to headlight screening. We definitely we appreciate a well-lit site, a safe site. We want safety for both our customers as well as our associates. So the concern for headlight screening from a drive through perspective, at any point along the drive through, we are more than happy to comply with any of the drive through screening requirements and screen that with sufficient landscape. If you haven't been to an In-N-Out site, we're meticulous in our landscape, planting, our design and our maintenance. You know, a maintenance plan was mentioned with trees more than happy to accommodate that. Our our indoor dining, our outdoor environment, our parking lots, we want them kept clean, safe and consistent with every In-N-Out. So our customer is getting the same thing over and over. There's no there's no substandard in and out that you go to. And you look at the parking lot and see trash in it. We're out there daily picking it up, making sure everything is safe and clean.

Okay.

And there's a lot of palm trees which do not provide shade on the site in the plan. And so I would suggest maybe relooking at those. The parking shading so that I brought that up at Commissioner Elaine brought it up. It says 84%. I don't know where that came from. I know in in some areas of the parking lo, it looks like because their orientation of the cars and where the trees are it, it looks like actually it could be very effective shading in the center where you have a lot of head to head. There's to me, that's really where it's most efficient. And I was recently at a shopping center in Rancho Mirage. What is it called, desert Crossing, something where they have a tree every third car, which I think I would really love the city to institute, but it really helps a lot, especially in this climate and with the sun that we have. So again, I sort of will ask you whether you're you would be open to looking at that and providing some additional shading in the parking.

We're definitely open to reevaluating that and looking at it. I mean, I know the code is at 50% and we're suggesting an 84% coverage. I've spoken with Tracy, I've spoken with staff about maybe adjusting the species of trees or increasing the box size. So the maturity at initial installation is larger to produce larger canopy right from the get go. We're more than happy to look at that. I will, you know, notate that, you know, we have 82 stalls here, parking stalls. And while that exceeds your minimum code by quite a bit, you know, the thought is that we will be having approximately 15 to 20 associates working within the store. That would be parking on site if they're not commuting by bicycle or walking and parking there. So that would take the parking stall count down from 82 to 67. And the other thing that we have to harmonize and balance with, you know, providing additional shading is the is the lighting for nighttime, because the photometric have to take into account, you know, that tree shading and providing a safe environment so it doesn't shield the, the lights and the and the lumens down into the parking lot. We don't have any dark areas, so we have to balance the two where we're playing kind of this musical chairs where we're we're shifting pole lights as we're wanting to create additional shade for the benefit of customers.

Okay. So we'll talk about the architecture later, I guess. But the one of the things that struck me is you have the outdoor seating, both on the west side and on the east side, the west side, the east side has got a cover, a roof structure over it. The west side is just umbrellas to me, you know, dinner time, that's totally ineffective. So I think maybe I might ask if you would be open to adding some additional shade cover on the West Side dining area.

I think we're we're very comfortable with the layout of the overhead shade structure to the east as currently planned and the umbrella tables to the west. I know that we were aware of, you know, prior planning Commission's concerns about buffering the outdoor seating from the drive through. And that's why you see some enhanced landscaping along those areas. And I have conveyed that message to our landscape architect to put trees on that western edge, to provide some shade relief from that western sun exposure. So we are aware of it. And I think that's something we can definitely discuss as we hopefully move through the Arc process.

Two questions about the site plan. It calls out that there's bike parking. I couldn't find it on the plan. Just curious where that is. It's located next to the outdoor shade seating area just to the east. Okay.

And then on the plan along the drive aisle, it looks I'm just trying to see what it was called out. It looks like there's a skinny paved area that runs quite a, quite a distance along the drive aisle. Let me just see if I have it, wrote it down in my notes. So associate walkway running along the driveway lane drive thru lane. So what is that for talk to me about.

That's for the associates to take handheld orders while outdoors. So we you know are cognizant of safety. We don't you know particularly want the associates walking within the internals of the two cars as it, you know, runs side by side and then merges to one lane. So we do have an associate walkway planned along there so the associates could comfortably walk along that landscape area, protected from the vehicles. But that is not. Shaded or covered. That's completely exposed except for the two car associate. Correct? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think that's it for me. Thank you.

Other questions? Yes, Commissioner Murphy. Just a clarification from Tracy on the pedestrian. Sorry. The pedestrian walkway. The chair brought the question up earlier, and I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. So there will be a contiguous sidewalk from, say, the Ace Hardware over and then across the private road to the to the site with marked pedestrian crossway.

So is that sort of striping from Ace Hardware to the parcel? I think we can certainly accommodate. Right now. There is a stop sign there that people sometimes disregard when they're going in the drive aisle from Smoke Tree Lane to Ace Hardware. Are you talking about a crosswalk?

I'm talking about walking from, let's say, Ace Hardware. You know, there's a sidewalk that runs all along the village and then the pedestrians, once in and out, is built. Should it be approved, pedestrians will walk from the Ace Hardware on a sidewalk to kind of alongside the vacant lot and then eventually cross the street into the property.

I understand, so that's something that staff brought to our attention. And I do think that we can accommodate that, whether it goes on the north portion of the drive aisle or the south portion is something that we can work out with staff, but I don't see why we could not achieve that. There is the there's a curb of at the vacant lot currently. So it's about the construction of three total lanes, the one dedicated to this parcel on this parcel and then improving the two existing lanes that are now so poorly paved, those will get repaved. And then the addition of a sidewalk on the south portion seems to me to be reasonable, right?

Just so long as there's a friendly, easy access pedestrian path from the existing village into and across the new street into the. And currently in the village, there are striped pathways there. They're only a few feet wide that are at the doors of, of Ralphs to direct people into the parking lot because, you know, so that they can do that safely and cars that are trying to go all the way from sunrise. As I forget which one of you pointed out through to Smoketree Lane, have to stop for those pedestrians that are coming in. I could imagine something similar for people that want to walk to the parcel.

Right. Okay. The other question I had is, and I appreciate Tracy, your comments about should this be approved and the Architectural Review Committee takes the project and does what it's going to do with the architecture questions. Hypothetically, if it is approved with conditions. Are you in and out? Burger comfortable with modifying the design so that it is truly more compatible with the existing either the Smoke Tree Commons or the Smoke Tree Village architecture, or something along those lines. I just want to make sure you're.

So before before Peter answers you. This is something that In-N-Out is aware of and they have been from the beginning. We were willing to take a stepwise fashion and say, is the site plan acceptable? The use has been deemed acceptable. Before we get to that point. The architecture is important to Smoke Tree too, and it's been part of our discussions from the beginning. And I'll let Peter, I have great faith that the subcommittee already understands what the issues are, and that we've already had some discussions. So I'll.

Let subcommittee does. Yeah, I was more concerned with In-n-out's ability or willingness to modify the design so that it's just more compatible. I understand that the, you know, the building itself and the signage are really part of the In-N-Out brand. It's recognizable and so forth. But at the same time, we have to really look at, you know, where it's going to sit. And so I just want to confirmation that there's a willingness.

And now wants to be in Palm Springs, where I think we're all aware of the architecture, planning Commission staff, subcommittee members, we will do well. I don't want to speak on behalf of the owner of In-N-Out, other than we will do what we can to look at the architecture and work through that process. So is there a willingness? Yes. Are there guarantees? No. But we're going to do everything we can. Okay. Thank you.

I've got just a couple questions. I think this first one's for Peter, I assume, but maybe for Tracy as well. The last few days I've seen the beautiful olive trees get boxed up and go away. Are you at liberty to say where they went?

I wanted to very much save the trees. I don't know if I'm a. I'm a big believer that we need trees. I am an advocate for the city's preservation program, and it's the Sustainability Commission is looking at how to stop the butchering of trees in our community. So we save those at great expense and took them out because they were beautiful old olives, could not buy that and get it trucked to the Coachella Valley. And so they moved on to the ranch. And the good news is, olives are very easily transplanted with proper care. And I think they I watched them. Not easy. But we.

We did. We watered them for weeks in advance. I saw the giant crane and. Yeah. And we had a certified arborist come and move them onto. The ranch. Actually happy to see that those were relocated to a great spot. Thank you. I think this is probably for Peter. I assume you've been to the site many times, and you saw the site with the Bank of America on it as well, did you? Yes. I did, and you observed the architecture of that building. I've seen the architecture of that building.

Yes. And note that that Bank of America building, whether you liked it or not, it was very representative of the predominant architecture of the center, including the ace and the Ralphs and the actually, to an extent, the US bank in terms of rooflines and mansard and things like that, because I'm guessing that I'm going to be on the subcommittee because I was on the subcommittee in February, and that's going to be a major question and an issue to be, you know, raised and discussed. I think that is my last question for the applicant team.

Surprisingly, I have no questions.

And because you can never talk enough about parking and architecture, that's a two directions I'm going. I haven't heard an explanation of why when the zoning ordinance requires 45 parking spaces for customers and staff total, why in an output 82 in. And I'm asking this because I'm want to know what you really need. Because if we're going to move towards trying to approve this or approve this conditionally, I want to know how close to that 45 we can come.

Yeah. So to answer that, you know, I would say that In-N-Out doesn't try to just meet minimums. I'm not sure the history behind the City of Palm Springs zoning code regarding parking minimums. Our operations group reviews our site plans. We internally review it all as a department. We look at it, we're aware of certain events that may happen within the City of Palm Springs or greater areas, golf tournaments or such, where 49 I believe is the requirement wouldn't be enough. And that's where we've come up with 82 as an appropriate number. Okay, okay.

One of the things that I appreciate about the site plan is that it improves the internal circulation of the shopping centers, working in conjunction with the other parcels. And obviously that's not in front of you tonight, but it does open up what was probably originally intended. And when this was Downey Savings and then Bank of America, those were closed off, which is to the detriment of the circulation inside the shopping center. So it's not that that. So would there actually be reciprocal parking?

Well there's no agreements currently. Those those leases were written in the late 1960s, as I said. So. But that's the anticipated effect of opening that up. And as I indicated that the current master lessee of the shopping center is in favor of in and out. And as we redevelop the other parcels that will come online.

Okay. And just for your information, when you indicate that In-N-Out doesn't want to just meet minimums, they want to go above and beyond in Palm Springs. The goal is to maximize shade and trees and landscaping and minimize parking, not the other way around. So we don't see more parking as being going above and beyond. We see that as a bad thing, generally.

Totally understand, and I've heard the comments regarding shading and you know, we're definitely open to discussing that through the subcommittee process of the larger box trees, potentially some additional islands that could grow that shading as part of the site plan. Okay, all that sounds great on the architecture is what was presented to us a prototype used other places.

I would say a prototype does not have the stone wainscot on the elevations, so that would be a departure from prototype. The thought process there with that stone choice was to mimic the tan tan tones of the existing smoketree center. So I would not say it's a prototype. I have heard mentions of stores, Westwood or other areas. You know, all of all of our designs go through Lynsi Snyder, owner. So every design she's looking at and she's imparting her wishes as part of store design, so should we be successful this evening and move on to the Ark process? She will be involved in that process and reviewing the store architecture and design.

Okay. And here this is kind of key to me because it's you've submitted a package and pretty much said, trust us, we'll approve this first part and, and we'll do some good architecture. Would you be willing or is in and out willing to actually take a look at our general plan and see what it says about community design and what you what should have been done before you came to the Planning Commission. Will you take a look at that and then be prepared to come to a first meeting with a subcommittee? If one is set up with having made a meaningful effort towards incorporating the elements of community design that are addressed in the general plan?

I think just us being here this evening shows that are willingness and our efforts. You know, we want to be a part of Palm Springs. We want to be here. You know, we've worked with Chris and the subcommittee members, and I've seen the comments from the architecture. Our internal design team's aware of them. They they know the process here. So everyone on our side is aware of this process. Is everybody on your side aware of what the general plan says regarding community design?

I'm not aware that the I'm not aware that the design team has reviewed the general plan. They are aware of the subcommittee comments regarding architecture staff's concerns regarding architecture. They do have those comment letters, have reviewed them. They understand.

I would ask that you if this goes forward, did you actually sit down and read the element on community design and look at it and come prepared to a first meeting because we want to get a new business in there. We want success. The center serves the neighborhood, but it has so much more potential, and we'd love to expedite you in the best way that you could help yourself. And I don't speak on behalf of everybody. I would say that on my behalf. We I would love to be able to expedite you and get you through to success and have the whole center be uplifted. The best thing you can do to help yourself is to educate yourself on what is expected in Palm Springs.

Duly noted. Okay, thanks.

All right. For Tracy. I'm very concerned about the frontage road continuation. Did I hear you say that you're planning to get rid of the rest of the frontage road? When? When you're able to. Yes. And from from the applicant. Would you work with her on that? Helping do that? Yes. Cooperate with. We've had many conversations about doing that in conjunction with the redevelopment of in and out.

Okay. Because that that that's very important. This for bikers, this section of Palm of Palm Canyon isn't bikeable. And our, you know, our traffic plan sends people down different roads that they don't go down. And what they do is they go through the center, they figure out a way to go across it. So we know they're going to use it, but we want it to be safe for them in the future. And the other thing I heard is that you're open, one or the other of you to creating a walkway. I think there's an informal one. It's clear people have used it between Smoke Tree Lane and along the frontage road to Ace Hardware. So some kind of.

Yeah, we call that the drive aisle to distinguish it from the frontage road. But yes, we are. There's no that would be a reasonable thing to do. Okay. No problem. The other thing I'm looking at and I heard Commissioner Brotman, I was looking at eliminating some of your parking so that there every three spaces there is, there is a room for additional trees. And I think it would take out one, two, three, four, five.

I think Smoke Tree is very concerned about having large canopy trees. That and sufficient shade. I guess I would ask Peter's behalf that you we hear that and where we can put more trees. I think that in and out has said they're willing, but are you going to prescribe it here or can we work that out? At AAC?

I'm looking at because we've gone through too many shopping centers without enough trees and without enough space for the tree. Well, I mean, the tree well takes twice the size of the tree you put in. We we're very serious about this.

As is smoke tree. I guess I worry about a prescription without having the benefit of the engineers and landscape architects saying every third stall. But to increase the shade. I think that it's part of our agreement actually, that the landscaping be sufficient. So.

I just I don't think it'd be prudent to, on the fly, revise a site plan to have an every third stall have have landscape trees. I, I just can't do that without consulting with our landscape architect, our civil engineer. There's photometric, there's lighting that comes into play, you know, to be conditioned to have a parking island every three stalls, that might be problematic. I am more than, you know, open to. Addressing the concern with parking lot shading and exploring additional islands and upping that 84 percentile. Additionally across the site. But doing that here, I can't agree to that.

I you're still over parked and you don't. I'm just saying that I want you to think really hard about this, because I think you could lose ten spaces and we would get more landscape and more trees and more shade. Working with your people as to how you lose some of those spaces. I'm open to that, but it is over parked. Right? Might it be something that is studied if you are moving forward with the subcommittee, which I think I've heard a few people reference, it might be something that is appropriately studied there, obviously with clear parameters around what you want to see, but perhaps the specifics.

I my understanding that we're but but the site plan is really our purview much more than than the architecture. So. Obviously I'm seeing long unhappy faces with no smiles, but I'm. Chair. Could I just ask for clarification from you? Is your main concern? Obviously getting shade trees that survive and flourish. I heard you mention the wells need to be large enough. So is it perhaps a situation where you don't think the tree wells that they've provided are wide enough?

I think we need to look at making sure the tree wells are wide enough that the plants can survive, and generally. Because that may just mean shifting. That may mean if the tree wells are eight feet wide or nine feet wide, it might be increasing them to 12 or whatever the number is. And so they're they're only losing sort of a fraction of a parking space with each one. It might add up to 6 or 8 spaces or more. But I think to get to the crux of I think your concern is let's make these tree wells wider and sustainable for the trees. Really?

Yeah. And I and I do think we need to look at the, I mean I, I love the olives because they'll last 150 years and they'll grow in there. Wonderful. The pistachio is really interesting. I think one of our experiences in the Valley has been that if you do all the same kind of tree, you're taking a huge risk. If that tree species can no longer survive the heat. So I think it's one of those things that you need to we need to take a good look at for you and for us. But I wanted to ask that question quite harshly so that I could gauge the answers we were getting. Fine. Are there other questions for the for them before we go forward? Yes. Commissioner Rotman yeah.

So I'm, I brought up Desert Crossing just because it was a recent experience. I'm not necessarily saying that you need to do every third car, but I think you do need to increase the number of trees, particularly in that center band. The other thing is, as I look at your renderings, you have a huge patio, huge concrete area outside and around the restaurant. I think there's opportunities to put tree wells in those and provide some shading there. And I think that's something you really should consider. Yeah. Definitely noted on that one.

Okay. Anybody else for questions before we close the public hearing. Thank you. Any any last comments from you guys? I would like to discuss the engineering comment. I don't have the number in front of me. It's related to the traffic study. I can pull it out. Rick, I think you were going to speak to that one with the TBD. I just would like that into the record.

Thank you for reminding me. So in our conditions of approval, that engineering put together at the time, that we put these conditions of approval together, traffic studies hadn't been completed yet. And so we kind of put a placeholder engineering number 42, which basically says as determined by a traffic study, the following mitigation measures will be required. And we just put a TBD in there because our conditions were ahead of the studies. The studies that we have have provided is plenty sufficient, and there is no mitigation that we need to add to that. So we would like to strike engineering number 42 from the conditions. It's plenty well covered in our the rest of the conditions of approval from engineering.

Thank you. The matters before the commission. Shall we take a five minute break. So we'll be back in five minutes. Wait wait, wait.

Okay. The meeting is called back to order. We have to on the public hearing because one of our members of the community was not. Was someone else took the stand when we thought we were calling you. So please join us and make your comments. You have three minutes. Thomas Farnsworth. And thank you for waiting this long.

Well, thank you for hearing my comments. Just very briefly. I'm a big in and out fan. It'll probably kill me, but you got to go happy out of life I think. So with that said, I would really support the Palm Springs location very much. I think it will bring a lot of business to the community. It will improve the esteem and also I think it will help the shopping center be revived a bit. So I'm all for it and I'm really excited about it happening. And I guess that's about it. Yeah. So come on and bring me to heaven with more In-N-Out burgers. I'm ready to go. I'm a clinical psychologist, so you don't need a 5150 me because I might 5150 you back. So be careful. And my only disappointment with you tonight. Corporate did not bring any double doubles to the meeting. Thank you very much.

Thank you. With that, the public hearing is closed and the matter is before the commission. I'm just going to take a quick poll to see if the temperature of the commission. I'm thinking we are at an approval with conditions, but I'm wondering if anybody has a different view on this. Our alternate. What's your view? Mr. Hernandez?

There you go. I turned it on. So I was thinking, I don't know if it's appropriate to request or consider, but I was thinking of misters in the patio area where it's just pure concrete. In addition to adding the additional trees there. But it is a large area. And so especially in Palm Springs, I feel like misters should be part of any new development or design, but just. A comment to that. It's just a thought.

So at the outdoor dining, the patio misters are proposed. It is part of the design. Oh thank you, thank you. That's it for me.

Okay I'm going to see if we can start to summarize the conditions that I've heard. And people. We have three staff changes that would be part of any motion. They would be to strike the engineering condition number 42. And they would be the two modifications, one for the sound. And there was a second modification. Help me with that. Revocation of the cup related to right. It's to remove the language that says you will be.

Removed language and to add add the and I see I can read it in front of me. Add the noise. Yeah it's admin condition seven.

Violation should result should result in a ratification and use the speakers for use of speakers for drive through pickup orders permitted at a low level consistent with the noise ordinance. Is that clear enough for people? Do we need any other language? Okay. The issues that I heard one would be the addition of a walkway on either the north or the south side of the frontage road, and the rehabbing of both the re reworking, I guess, of both the frontage road and Smoke Tree Lane. The re rebuilding of those.

Well, it's actually not the frontage road. The frontage road is going away. It's the private drive at the south end. I'm sorry. The driveway at the south end. Yeah. That links Smoke Tree Lane to the Ace Hardware area. Okay.

So that's a condition that everybody is in agreement on. So we've got four of those. The other was that engineering should look at the redesign of the pork chop. Possibly making it more prominent to block. I think it to make it clearer that you can't you can only turn in or turn where you can turn in and turn out, and also to block headlight glare to the extent possible for engineering. Does that condition work for you? Okay, one that I don't think we had mentioned, but for can engineering do you have in your standards a way of demarcating the bicycle portion and the pedestrian portion of the walkway that's going to go with the old frontage road was.

When you say demarcating, you mean like a small sign that says pedestrian bike path or something like that. That, or if you can do any kind of striking, I don't know. Yeah, we can we can look at what the MUTCD code allows us to do. And then what is part of the general plan. What what the markings are supposed to be.

The other comment I heard was some reworking, I guess stop signs and possible possible flashing of the crossing between the new walkway and Smoke Tree Lane up close to Palm Canyon. Whatever you can do to make that safe. Are there other things that people wanted up to Palm Canyon? Scott, did you have?

Well, you mentioned you mentioned the stop or crossing protection for the multi use path. Right? Right. Both at Oak Tree Lane and at the internal driveway off of East Palm Canyon. I think that's critical that we come up with something to mitigate what could be a bad situation just because of their proximity from Palm Canyon, this one and this. One, and also the pedestrian crossing of the drive through. Pedestrian crossing of the no.

There's also a pedestrian crossing of the drive through. If you were walking down from that lane and you were crossing over so that you could go to the restaurant, right? Yeah. And they they handle it well at the Rancho Mirage one. I've used that a number of times. And there's a very distinct crosswalk with signage. Never seen a pedestrian coming down because it's about a 200 foot, you know, ramp down from, from Palm Canyon at that point.

But okay, so but we've just in terms of covering what looks like is a very good site plan, you know, a very good site plan, but making sure that the pedestrian crossings are as safe as possible, the location of the bike rack. Speaking to our bikers, it's closer to the covered patio. But should it be closer to the pathway that walks where you walk into the area?

As a cyclist with a bike that costs more than my car, I think generally it's important to have a bike rack near the main entrance because that way you can keep an eye on it and more eyes on it make it less likely to disappear. That's my own. Belief.

Is there general agreement on that? So the then we're looking at the patio area, and the concerns I heard were either looking at, if we're sending this to a committee to look at a shaded cover or additional tree wells in that large patio.

Yeah, it would be, as you said, shading the dining area on the west side. But again, the whole forecourt of the restaurant on the south side is all concrete. So I think there's a lot of opportunities to introduce some trees and planting and really make it a very a nice enhancement experience. So enhance basically enhance this area, add plantings, add trees. Yeah. It could be a tree with seating. Around it like we've done in other locations.

Okay. In terms of parking and coverage, I think we're looking at a tree coverage that's not just 80%, but closer to 100% of the parking area. That's that's not feasible. Not feasible. 80% is even feasible. So again, we've talked about where that 80%. So we're but but we're not convinced that the location of the trees one one suggestion I heard is West Palm tree. So that when trees are put in there, trees that provide shade.

Yeah, I think the palm trees were mostly around the perimeter and not so much in the parking area. I could be wrong, but but my focus was really on the center area where they have trees spacing every seven cars, and I'd like to see that reduced to maybe five or something. And maybe it's just a question of adding one more tree. Well, you know, to divide. That 1 or 2. On each side or two more trees. Yeah. Two more trees. Yeah. Adding two more trees and. To the.

Center and some of the areas where there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine possibly breaking up the larger areas where there 7 or 10 parking spaces and adding an additional tree and or two trees in those areas.

Maybe rather than being too prescriptive, we say something like reduce over parking and increase shade coverage to accomplish. Greater comfort and environmental friendliness, and then but have it to the satisfaction of the planning director, or.

It's going to go to a committee. Well, the A or C as I'm looking at this, we're looking at conditions, but I believe these are conditions we're sending back to a committee.

Yes. We need to have who's going to be. Obviously, this is a point of contention between the applicant and the city. We are have different goals and we need some arbiter who's going to determine when enough. How much is enough.

Christmas making a face at his new role. I'm certainly happy and will participate in the subcommittee meeting, I think. I think it's something that should be studied and discussed there, and I have confidence that we'll reach a good compromise. But if not, I'm happy to sort of I mean, I think arc technically will be the final, final arbiter, right? Because they're going to be approving the landscape plan. So I think if it gets stuck in subcommittee, ultimately Arc will say yes or no based on what In-N-Out is comfortable moving.

Forward, we can set of goals and reduce correct the over parking not all the parking, but the over parking by 20%. Or set that as a goal rather than specific locations of where it should be and how it should be accomplished. Yeah, I think the goal to the subcommittee could be relatively simple, just, you know, consider an overall reduction in the over parking and replacement with additional landscape medians and or expansion of tree wells and or and additional shade trees. Consider additional species, you know, just kind of a complete redesign of that particular aspect.

And we've heard agreement to increase the tree size. I think we saw most of them at as 24 box. And to increase the tree size to 36, a 36 inch box for trees that are put in with an appropriate well size for that tree. There's been. A we heard an agreement on that I think. Yeah, yeah.

Regarding the over parking question. I do go to the Rancho Mirage location once a month or maybe twice a month sometimes. I'm not sure this is that over parked. To tell you the truth, if you've not been to an In-N-Out during their busy periods, mainly at lunch and then again at dinner, mainly lunch, I think there's a lot of people that go into the store and, you know, so I'm just cautious about how much we expect them to be able to lose parking because I think, as Tracy said, we don't want them to be spilling over into other lease areas of the shopping center. So I, I think there's probably room for expanded number of trees, certainly, but I'm not so sure we're going to get to a 20% reduction in parking. I don't think that's feasible.

I would also. Say since this is not a standalone site, if I were going there and I also had to go to true value, I would leave my card in and out. I mean, you're going to get more out. You're not just going to park there. You might use Ralphs and other things and not move your car. Hopefully people do. I mean, that is the goal, but if it is a paved field of asphalt and it is a day like today, people are going to get in their cars and drive from one to the other, which is part of the reason why you want to have shade or landscaping in your parking areas.

And I think they'll find that the more people, at least during nine months out of the year, more people are going to be biking to this location than certainly the Rancho Mirage location. There's a lot of bikers here, and I think we need to make sure we've got a substantial number of bike parking spaces to accommodate that.

The 20% is a pretty large number. It's about 17 spaces, and I think that's that's beyond I think looking at the possible reduction, up to 10% for increasing. And it would be interesting to know how many parking spaces they have in Rancho Mirage, because. I was saying 20% of the over parking, which would be 82, -45 times point two, and somebody can do that in their head. Well. So parking spaces.

So okay. So, so with a maximum, a maximum up to I let's see how people feel about that. If we're looking at a maximum of up to about seven spaces, look a possible reduction of up to seven spaces, which would be about what you're saying, 7 to 8 spaces. Is there. And it's trying to see if we can increase the trees. How do how do people feel about that?

Isn't the issue like if the applicant can achieve an 80% coverage, which is a lot. By what year? I mean, if you can, if you go to year 35, you might achieve and you keep the trees alive. That's a fair point. Yeah. I'm just trying to simplify it so that because they're saying they're going to do an 80% coverage for the for the entire development, it seems to me that if they achieve that, that there would be adequate shade coverage for the parking area. Probably every place but the center area, I think.

So maybe if. For the condition, maybe we just focus on that is adding, as you suggested, a couple more tree basins. Adding a few more in the center. Area, which is for more trees in the center area. Well size is large enough where they do plant the trees. I mean, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Madam Chair, if I might just add some information from the engineers. There are there are some underground infrastructure and retention basins here that we have to be sensitive to in terms of tree locations and plantings, plantings. So however you want to give this direction or condition, it perhaps just build in some flexibility to allow us to play around with the design to avoid any. Of that. Absolutely. You drafting the conditions as we're talking? Please do so. Are we close enough to what we want to do? Commissioner Murphy, I. I want to see this go forward, and I'd like to see it go forward tonight with these conditions.

My wife, this is going to be sent to a subcommittee still. So that's my question, is.

We're not doing we would do an approval, but going to a subcommittee, we've still got the whole redesign of the building issue that I haven't raised yet. And we had a subcommittee meet where there wasn't really any motion toward the suggestions that they made. So we've been asked to, in good faith, assume that the applicant is going to work with us. And they clearly have worked in other communities and many of them, and made changes that were interesting. But I think we're we are going to want, I would say, a complete redesign of the building architecture to comply with. I'll use language or community design and land use elements of the general plan and to provide architecture that's representative of the surrounding area and the unique character of Palm Springs. Okay, so I want to redesign of the building to come out of that subcommittee. Okay. And that's a that's an important condition for us.

That's where I was going, exactly where I was going with my question, because if we approve it with that condition, I wanted to make sure that if the applicant, for whatever reason, decides they can't or shouldn't do any kind of significant redesign, what happens? It doesn't get approved by the arc.

And then if it doesn't, okay. I mean, we want we're we're looking at a site plan. We have a good site plan in front of us with a few tweaks. I think it's probably I was incredibly pleased with what we saw. It needs a few tweaks to make sure that there's pedestrian safety and tree coverage, but the biggest issue for us is that the design isn't reflective of Palm Springs, and I don't think it needs to mimic what's in the what's in the current center or centers. But I think it has to reflect Palm Springs, a combination of reflecting the applicant and Palm Springs. I think we're going to get some bright colors, but. Anyway, so. That's the condition that I just read. Is everybody in agreement with that condition?

I, I would suggest we modify it a little bit to add some the word contextual. I think that's important. And that will, I think pull in some of the general plan language, perhaps because I think it's important that they take the context of the shopping center, because I think this white box could look fine in some areas of Palm Springs, you know, where you've got a bunch of mid-century white boxes, but that's not this location. And so they need to be contextual with the shopping center, at least the shopping center it's in, whether they can pull something from the commons to the east, perhaps. But I mean, the thing that stood out the most to the subcommittee was the glaring white color. And we were told in February at the subcommittee meeting that that's their prototype. That's what they want to go forward with. But I've got tons of examples of other locations, including Mill Valley, California. You might want to look at that one, which is not that different from this, but it's got some mansard roofs that are similar to some of the elements in the shopping center, and it's a beige color instead of glaring white bone. I think bone China was is the color. And this site is not a bone China white site.

Robert, do you have comments on that? Just bringing in our other architecture? Yeah, just a general comment. The to me, the architecture of this particular building is meant to be on a highway and it's the sign is huge, the building is bright and it's really meant to be viewed as you're going 80 miles an hour down a freeway or expressway. And I think it ignores the fact that this is a much. More pedestrian, more slower scale. It's an urban urban situation. Yeah. East Palm Canyon has a lot of traffic, but I think it's. It doesn't move that fast.

Yeah, it doesn't fit. And I'll let you finish with the to me, I think the building looks bulky and very heavy. And I think the cornice is part of the problem. And so that's maybe a direction that the subcommittee looks at. And of course, there's the disparity between the associate canopy and the building itself. I mean, they're just like two out of two different planets. So something I didn't bring up earlier, which I'll do it now because I'll forget it, is the exterior lighting and the color temperature and making sure there's a consistency. And maybe we and they can address it, but in the subcommittee. But to me 3500 Kelvin is probably a nice level. I don't want to see 4000 or 5000 Kelvin for any of the exterior lighting.

So we've got one one condition, which is contextual. Adding the word surrounding or contextual. Are you okay with that? I am.

And then why don't we give some direction to the subcommittee in terms of things we might like to see changed, so that they look at that as an additional condition. So we'd like them to look at concerns we have, which is that the building is heavy. Explain why the, you know, explain the items that you maybe you can do. What explain the items you'd like the A or C and the subcommittee to look at.

Well, I as I said, I think it's heavy and bulky. I think that part of it is the cornice detail that runs around the top of the building, and then is the details on the canopies around the shaded areas. I think that could be simplified. And then that would, that would help. I think. I'm not sure that the stone wainscot actually works. I mean, it's nice to have a change of material, but it seems like a, an afterthought. You know, I'd rather see something, you know, that is more integrated into the building integral, integral to the building. So and the white is very bright and, you know, but I could live with it if it had a little bit more. Well, not in this situation, not at Smoke Tree. I think it really needs to have a earthiness to it that this lacks.

So those would be suggestions we're sending to the Arc in the subcommittee if, if we have agreement here, and I think we do for me it's Palm Springs is simple. I mean, it's a simple architecture. It's sometimes cheap. It's glass and simple lines and. I think that that represents us as well as. Context. But this is just it's not simple enough for me. Do people. So we're adding a condition in terms of advice. Are people okay with that. Okay we've got that. We've got. Okay. We've got the. We've got the element of shading over that, that west corner. The other the other is a strong look at either the wall, the berm or the landscape. And I'm comfortable with the landscape. I just want to make sure that what they're putting behind the drive through aisle and as you turn the corner is heavy enough to block. Car light.

Yeah. My concern about it just being landscaping. As we know, plants die in the desert. And even though in and out may be a stellar tenant or I just the I just I don't feel comfortable just relying completely on landscaping. And I think a combination of maybe landscaping berming wall, you know, to make it interesting would alleviate some of my concerns. You people, I agree with that. Do other people agree with that?

I do agree with it too. I mean, the first of all this landscape plan is substantially planted. It's got a lot of plants. But as Commissioner Rotman says, sometimes they die. They're thinner at the early stages. So I agree, there is such close proximity from the from competing headlights coming down Smoke Tree and coming up the drive through lane. I think there at least needs to be a combination of all, you know, and we're talking three, three feet, right? I mean, three foot walls, 3 or 4, you know. Yeah. 40. Yeah. Something like that. Okay.

I think that's that makes perfect sense. Especially where it's so close. And then I had working cooperatively with current and future adjacent property owners to extend the. The, the landscaping along Palm Canyon to extend that, you know, as that comes up to work with future and future and current adjacent people to improve the, you know, to work on the adjacencies.

Well, are we going to see we're going to see the plans potentially. Right. So we're going to have an opportunity if something comes in for a redevelopment, let's say the US bank and I don't know that they're going away anytime soon, but. They just just got rid of the drive area in front of you as bank. We might not see it. Right. Although I think they're going to need to keep some sort of circulation out there. It might not be the same frontage road.

But having the having them work cooperatively with the neighboring property owners for the connectivity of the pedestrian because more than the landscape. But the their lot. Yeah. It's not something. And the other would be requiring a landscape maintenance plan prior to prior to CFO that the planning director signs off on.

We've done that on a couple projects. I think that's a good idea. Is there anything that we've missed? Chris, do you want to can you read it back to us? I think first and foremost, we are in agreement that you are striking or continuing the subcommittee and that this is being referred to a joint subcommittee of the Planning Commission and the Architectural Review Committee. And I we have two we have it's a three person subcommittee. Can we add an additional person from planning or two.

At the planning Commission's pleasure, if you'd like to add an additional PC member. Is there someone who wants to sit on it? I will sit on it. Additionally, if everybody else is busy for the summer, would you? Then you don't need me. I can. I work, I work well with Lori, okay. So we're going. That makes it a four person. Do we need it an uneven number? I think so. Yeah it's yeah okay.

So we're going to send this to we're approving this. We're sending it to a subcommittee with instructions. And then some areas of instructions and some areas of advice. Or is it advice.

So let me try to go through what I think I heard. Okay okay. A complete redesign of the building architecture to comply with the community design and land use elements of the general plan and provide architecture that is contextual to the shopping center and or surrounding area, and the unique character of Palm Springs. A review of the drive through aisles, screening and landscaping with an emphasis on the northeast corner, including a combination of walls, landscaping and berming as necessary to provide adequate screening and eliminate conflicts with headlight glare.

Adequate screening, noise mitigation, and conflict with headlight glare. Okay, this is where I may need some help. Provision of additional shading, which can be achieved through additional landscape islands or wider tree wells in the parking lot, with a particular emphasis on the center area where appropriate and where it does not conflict with underground utilities, which will result in a reduction in parking or. Parking.

And the over parking consideration of, or of an increase in the tree size to 36 inch box. Consideration of. Adequate tree will. Yeah. Can of additional shading whether it's landscaping or structural over the west outdoor dining area and consideration of additional trees and tree wells on the south side of the building in the paved area.

Instead of over, you might just say at the west side dining.

Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Consideration of the use of an appropriate lighting temperature with a suggestion of around 3500 Kelvin. Consideration of a redesign of the pork chop at the new entry to the satisfaction of the engineering department to both ensure safety, preclude left turns, and address any headlight glare. Rehabilitation of the drive aisle on the south side of the project site, as well as a construction of an additional east west pedestrian connection on either the north or south side of that drive aisle. Clear demarcation of the bike and pedestrian lanes on the multi-purpose pathway. Additional safety or traffic calming measures to address to ensure safe pedestrian access, both at the multi-purpose paths and Smoke Tree Lane, as well as at the exit of the drive through lane, as well as the connection to Ace Hardware along the drive aisle. Which may include signals, lights or other measures or stop signs as appropriate. Consideration of relocation of the bike racks closer to the front door, and potentially additional bike infrastructure. Needing reading glasses soon. We talked about

the shading. I have to read my own writing. And then I might need some help from Commissioner Rotman. As part of the architectural study and redesign. Reduce, consider a reduction in the bulk of the building with an emphasis on the cornice. Considering different use of colors that are more earth tones or desert neutrals and anything else you'd add to that.

Great. The applicant will work cooperatively with current and future property owners to ensure connectivity to the adjacent sites, particularly as the multipurpose path is extended eastward. I'm sorry. Westward. Thank you, Commissioner Miller, and that a landscape maintenance plan be provided prior to Certificate of Occupancy to the satisfaction of the Planning Director. That's it. Okay. Any comments? You're good.

Any comments you would like to make the motion? I would. You would, yes. I mean unless you would. I was going to leap in and second after you. Oh I would move approval of the major development permit and the Ceqa exemption under 15332 Sequa with the conditions of approval as outlined, including a referral to a subcommittee consisting of two members of the Planning Commission and two members of the Architectural Review Committee.

And one friendly staff amendment to that, if I might, I forgot to read that we are also striking Engineering Condition 42 and revising Administration Administrative Condition seven and Planning Condition eight as outlined in staff presentation. Second. Can you call the roll, please? Commissioner Miller? Yes. Vice chair. Elaine. Yes. Chair. Yes, chair. Commissioner. Baker. Yes. Commissioner. Murphy. Yes. Commissioner. Brotman. Yes. Commissioner. Morrell. Yes.

Wow. Seven.

Okay. The motion is passed. Oh. Thank you. We're really looking looking forward to. I'm looking forward to driving in and having lunch soon. Oh, we have extra business. I was ready to go home. I started packing up. Okay. Planning Commission reports, requests and comments. Seeing none. Planning director report.

I have several. Just kidding. I truly don't have many. I will say we have a relatively full agenda in two weeks. I won't necessarily say what yet because things may shift, but I know 1 or 2 of you have pre-planned absences. But it will be a big meeting and looking forward to everyone's participation. I think those are the major updates that I have, Madam Chair. That I will be. Over one other. You can sit in one of the seats. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. With that, I'm going to adjourn the meeting until 530. Tuesday, July 22nd. I'm going to wish everybody who's going on a lovely vacation, a wonderful vacation. And for those of us who aren't going on vacation, I'll see you here in two weeks. Oka