Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Good evening everybody and welcome to the Chesake Beach Planning and Zoning Commission uh meeting of February 25th, 2026 at 6 o'clock. And we will begin by calling the meeting to order and roll call, please. Can we start down uh with Commissioner Smith, please? Christopher Smith, present. Mary Sue Gryman, present. And I'm Cindy Greenold. Larry Brown, present. And madame clerk, please note that Commissioner Rutk, Commissioner Han, and Commissioner Larson Weaver are not in attendance tonight. And please, let's stand for the pledge of allegiance.

Ready? Begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States to one indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Thank you. Now, I'd like to have the approval of the February 25th, 2026 Planning Commission agenda. Do I have a uh move to approve? I I move that we approve the agenda for this evening.

And we have a second. Any questions, changes? No. All in favor, please, of approving the agenda. Okay. Thank you. Next, uh, we have the approval of the minutes of February 4th, 2026 planning commission meeting. Do we have abstain? I wasn't there. Yes, that's right. We Yeah, we will. I move that we I move Yes. Go ahead, please. I move that we approve the minutes of February 4th, 2026 meeting. Do I have a second? Second it. Any changes? Any questions about the minutes? Okay. All in favor of approving I'm sorry. Um, yes, we will approve the next. We will approve. At the beginning, it says vice chair Lori Brown.

We've discussed that. She's going to fix it. But we want to see if anyone else caught it. It was only He's wanting to make sure that uh Yeah, that didn't happen. Okay. The approval of the minutes of the February 4th close session meeting. Joe, I have a mo uh a motion to approve, please. to say that again. A motion to approve the minutes of the February 4th close session. Uh I I make a motion to approve the minutes of the close session.

Do I have a second? And you weren't here, so I have to look over here or I have to I'll second it. We have three members that can approve it, which is It's probably not. We can't even approve it, can we? At this point,

can you make note that we'll have to wait till next month to approve that, please? Okay. All right. Now, we have uh we do have a public comment um from the gentleman that was here last month, Ethan Johnson. He wasn't able to attend tonight's meeting. You all got the email. Uh but as you see, he did find out, he went and did his research on what was required at different locations, the HOA, etc. State requirements. And I think it was interesting. He sent us an email letting us know what he found, what his information was, and what the research was. Um, and I guess at this point now he's waiting to hear probably back from us to have a little bit of um support on on what our requirements are at this point. So I think which way do you want to handle this? Uh, Miss Franklin, do you want to send him an email and say we're still coming together on what we're doing or what do you how do you want to approach this? Uh I did you reach out to him at all today? I don't know. We talked about Okay. I just wanted to make sure the clerk hadn't contacted him. Yeah. Um so I can reach out to him and let him know our schedule. We need to have a public hearing May at the latest so that we can get this forwarded over to council. I think it probably will be till May.

Yeah. I'm hoping he doesn't want to make uh make start his business sooner than that. But if you wouldn't mind letting him know that schedule uh or what you think is the schedule, that'd be great. Yeah. And the council is looking at our home occupations, but because he's in one of those districts and he wants to have clients to the house probably potentially even after May, you know, that may not change because of where he is and the traffic concerns. So I think that we can give him the schedule, but I don't know. Yeah, we're still we're still unsure on the traffic impact.

I hate to give him an answer that we're uncertain of things, but that's going to be where we're at right now. Okay. What what provide him with or without uh means to have his business in his house. That's what he's asking for. That's what he's asking for. And so we're talking about whether we allow businesses uh in the community now.

So his business require has some on-site sales and so you know that's something you can discuss when we get when we're talking about the new you know major and minor home occupation categories and how to handle that. At the last time we talked about home occupations, you all decided that in the lower density residential districts that you didn't want people coming to the houses for the home occupations. Um, and so unless you're going to change that, his situation is not likely to change, but he's provided the public comment. So you should deliberate on whether you want to change that so that you are considering you know that public comment in relation to everything you're doing.

What district is he in? So he's in

he'sc NRPC um that we need to adjust its underlying zoning. I don't for him to make a general exception in in these regulations that for things that are not covered here, you can go to the board of appeals and ask the board of appeals for approval or disapproval. Um, I can't remember if this one can go to work. It may be this one may be able to go to board of appeals, but I'm not certain. I will want to look into that. Um, but that's something you guys can decide if you want to have.

Well, I think the point is, is there part of the business that he can do already hold off on the on-site sales until we get to that point? Right. So once it's a partial approval basically I guess once the council adopts the new home remember we came up with temporary home occupation regulations. Once the council adopts that he can apply for a permit. Um

but because he does have on-site sales I would have to deny it. If he changed his model so that there were no on-site sales, then I would be able to approve it under the temporary right regulations. Right. Right.

But as you move forward looking at how you want to move forward, you kind of want to ask the question, do we want to change what type of home occupation we allow where? because his on-site sales his on-site sales are very infrequent at the same time. How do you manage the frequency of someone's on-site sales and how do you monitor that and how do you enforce that? And so that's I think a a policy conversation that you you've already had, but you can have again because we're kind of we're going to look at home occupations a little differently because we're classifying diff that we're we're coming up with a long-term solution instead of short-term solution. Um and so we can get a little more into how to address that. Okay. So how do we want to complete this? Do we want to go ahead and email him and say, "Here's what the schedule is for for completing the discussion and the the permit process." I mean, how do you want to how do you want to go forward on this?

So, I can just email him and tell him what's happening at the council level, what's happening at the planning commission level, what the expected timeline is for you guys to get it to council, and then I I can't say what the timeline is going to be for council to adopt it, right? Um but I can tell him you know what we anticipate but I can't be certain everything is going to track on time especially because state has this legislation and if the state passes this legislation at the end of March we are going to get thrown off course entirely potentially. What what legislation

the state is looking at preempting land use and setting a minimum lot size for all residential zones and requiring town houses in all residential zones and requiring you to have that legislation in place by October. So they're basically planning to eliminate variation in single family or in any residential zone or or the planning and zoning commission.

Kind of feels like it. Um it it's it is um we just have to wait and see what they're going to do. Um but we can keep moving forward with this. But if they do pass something in March, we are going to potentially have to shift what we've been doing or April really. So, we're going to Okay. Did you get your question answered? Yeah. Okay. There you go. Thank you.

Um Okay. So, the next thing is we want to go to the land use table and the zoning ma map. So, if you can get your zoning map out that uh Miss Franklin sent you, it's uh labeled 2226. Miss Franklin, go ahead and give us a stamp report on this if you would.

So, in addition to looking at the land use classifications, um we also kind of looked at the zoning map and realized we had a few issues with the zoning map. So the last time you said take this back, take a look, advise us on what you think um should happen with the zoning map. And so part of it is we are limited by what the current comprehensive plan says. And so some of the stuff in the map I've drafted we can't do and some of the stuff we can. Um, when I went and drove all the neighborhoods and looked at everything, what I realized is that you had a residential highdensity district that was being applied to areas that already had highdensity housing and the same kind of highdensity housing that you permit in the RV 2 zone. So you had this district that was sort of doing the same thing that the RV2 district was doing. And so what I am recommending is that you get rid of the high density district and call all of those areas RV2. And then you had RMD had been historically applied to some of the neighborhoods south of Fishing Creek, but those neighborhoods looked a lot more like the RV1 neighborhoods north of 260. And so I said, "Okay, well, instead of having RMD applied to this neighborhood and RV1 applied to this neighborhood and they look the same, let's apply RV1 to all the neighborhoods where you have density,

you have small streets, you have limited off- streetet parking um and you have the like older sort of pattern of land development. And then we'll use the RMD and apply that to some of the newer housing developments that have the slightly smaller lots. Then your two sort of larger lot developments, the Highlands and just kind of the area by 261. Um, and so I'm recommending that we remove a zoning category for high density, consolidate that with RV2, and also that we apply RV1 to kind of all the areas that have that traditional pattern of development that results in the parking problems we keep talking about. And what that will allow us to do is say, "Okay, we need to target these areas and we might need to require additional parking when redevelopment or additions happen. We might need to require more open space on a lot in order to allow for that parking. We we can target some zoning regulations to help alleviate the problems that are happening in those areas by separating them out into and identifying what is the same and what we want it to look like in the future which is the same but with less parking problems. Right.

Okay. Thank you. Um so uh to re to reiterate um what I am understanding Miss Franklin's suggestion is is that she would take we would take the uh high density uh the residential high density move it into an RV2 category because if you read the RV2 category which you've got on your desk the RV2 allows for the higher density housing as well as you know this the uh this separate um uh housing that that's already there in this area right across from Bayia. So basically RB2 allows for all different types of housing which would allow the high density to go in as well. So if you can see the I call it an orangey brown. It's not the orange that's um over on the west side of the town as you see on the map, but it's the it's the side. It's the brownish color that is closer to the coastal areas.

And right now it's saying RHD and RV2. And if you if you took that brown, it would be all the same district. It' be now called the RV2. Then the other thing that she recommended is that we take the RMD which is the medium density residential and convert that into the RV1 because it has a similar pattern of um single family detached dwellings and it has that you know that small compact nature of the historic sized lots that makes this area so unique. But those 25 to 30 foot lots that uh that I know that are all up in the uh south side of of and I think they're over on the north side as well. But anyway, similar size lots. Um so if you can see the colors, there's pink that is identifying what would eventually be the RV1. There's that u brownish color uh that is the now the RV2. And then of course that orange on the other side that is what is that or that would be the um the RMD right the R the residential medium density would be the other lighter orange color that you're seeing

and those are more distinct on the computer than Yeah. And then you would call that the the heritage is part of that. The um areas of some of the uh it looks like Bay View you've got in there um all the sort of newer HOA developments with the exceptions of the Highlands. Yeah. Okay. So, does uh let's let's start with questions on that change. Uh okay. I see some concerns on the faces down here.

I'm not matching up the map here. So that's that's what I'm doing. So read the descriptions that are on that are on the list. Yes. Uh Commissioner Gman, go ahead. You had talked about I guess when you're kind of combining RV two with R High density. Yes, high density. You were indicating that you would have more tools to address certain issues, but I'm not sure I understand why.

Uh, so it's actually the RV1 where you would have the tool you're going to use the tools to address the issues. So the RV2 areas all have what characterizes the RV2 areas differently than the RV1 is that if there is single family housing, it has off- streetet parking. like more, you know, there's areas where there's just not off- streetet parking at all or very limited off- streetet parking for um residential. And so those are your RV1 areas. Your RV2 areas are where you have town homes, condos or in the case of um that little area kind of in the upper left corner, upper upper west corner of um 260 and 261. you just have more space. Um, and we can talk about whether that's the right way to draw that line or not. Um, but I it's whether you have off- streetet parking or on street parking that is distinguishing the RV1 and the RV2. But you in I thought I heard you say that by kind of um kind of merging the RHD into

RV2 that you would have more tools and I don't understand. No, she said that about the RV1. Okay. Okay. just that our RV sorry R LHD the high density and RV2 were pretty close to the same district right and so it didn't make sense to have two different zoning categories for what is functionally the same thing so it yeah it streamlines things to combine them okay RV1 allows us to target our tools to address

the land use problem of not having enough off- streetet parking. It will take a long time, probably decades, right? But as redevelopment happens, you can potentially solve that problem by what? Requiring additional I right because requiring additional parking as redevelopment happens.

Okay. And then my thought too and I was uh asking her the question about the section that is currently RB2 which is I I want to call it behind the antique store over here which you know is to the to the west of 261. It's across from Baya that section in there which was always RV2. Um, you know, we were talking about possibly enlarging that or making some of that area RV1 as well and pushing the RV2 area back to where those town homes were that we saw that you know the Bay View town homes, whatever.

Um, so we were talking about maybe changing that up that zone up a little bit. Um, and then of course we've got, as you can see, the dark pink that surrounds 261 and 260. It kind of curves around the corner there. Right now we have the town the TC the town I think it's TC town center town commercial I'm sorry to town town commercial is on 260 I believe and not 261 but she's um I think potentially we could we can um extend it down to 61 to allow more opportunity for some of those houses to turn commercial at some point. I think that's what your thought is, you know, maybe

Yes, that is my thought there. Um

the way and and we may need to actually amend the land use map in the comprehensive plan in order to do this. So, we might not be able to do this this goround, right? Um, but the idea is that you had sort of RV2 areas that were supposed to be more dense going further west off 260, which is less walkable and more steep slopes um, and a lot of like land that really isn't good for that. And so the idea would be that you would put your commercial uses in a zone that you can walk around and travel to on foot, which allows you to park kind of over here or in in these parking lots by Kellums and walk more easily. Obviously, you have to deal with the intersection and cross street crossings. Um, but that will alleviate the concerns about parking and commercial uses in neighborhoods. Commissioner Smith, I know you've got some questions.

I'm just looking at the map here. So, we're talking about moving back the the TC, right? You said move that back uh with the It's currently what? RV1, correct? So, currently some of those places are zoned RV1 and and the houses would be allowed to remain. Okay. It's just that in addition, if someone wanted to convert the house to a commercial use, then they would be able to. There's I I I I'm trying to I know that's a I've taken that road like a few times. Those lots are big enough for like those for like a potential commercial spaces back there or

so this is actually just on 260 in not behind it. So they are small lots. There are challenges to them converting to commercial, but what we had been kind of talking about was the sort of commercial with residential. So, if you wanted to have a bakery downstairs or a doctor's office downstairs where you're kind of talking about these uses and how they fit into communities and how that deals with how vehicles are moving and how parking happens.

Definitely. Yeah. And when we think about getting the parking out of the neighborhoods and the traffic movement out of the neighborhoods and and focusing it in these areas, I believe that's really the most appropriate place to put them. your comprehensive plan sort of disagrees with that, which means we probably can't make that change now. But I think that we might, based on the conversations I'm hearing, come off the planning commission that we might actually want to do an amendment to the future land use map to allow us to align what I'm hearing with regard to concerns about parking and regards to concern about sea level rise and housing better to this map. And if if commercial goes I guess that's across from Bayia kind of that whole area. Is that right?

Yes. I mean is is it conceivable that a 7-Eleven could be put there or there is a we have one in the in the NC which is right next to Leos. The the TC doesn't allow a 7-Eleven but the NC does. No. But where's those 7? Well, I think there's it's next to Leos in uh the right AC right near the fire station area. You know where the fire station is up there? Okay. Well, sure. There is that little neighborhood, you know, commercial zone and they have a lidos and a little strip. There's what else is in there besides those two? There's a there's the liquor store. That's

There was a there was a physical therapy uh facility. It's still there, too. It's still there. pivot is still physical therapy. But Leo, it might need to be NC, not TC. We'll we'll look at it, but I don't think we can do it. It's just sort of aspirational. It is. It is NC right now, right? It is NC. Yeah. No, I think I used TC when I probably should have used. We'll need to make adjustments to the commercial areas, but I didn't get too into that because we can't really do that.

Okay. Um now with the um Ryzen on the bay going to R to I'm sorry to um it's would RV2 it would be going to RV2. Yes. That would accommodate for the I don't know if I want to call them commercial areas down below but they're yes mixed use I would guess you would call it um whatever it is down there. So that would accommodate for that too. So that would that would be it's already RV2. It's RV1 right now. It was RV. I know it's Yeah, that's what's caused that's actually what's causing the problem is that it's zoned RV1. So RV1 is

the comprehensive plan. I there were definitely some places where this the zoning that you've had did not match up with what the comprehensive plan had. That's correct. It was supposed to be our region. Yes. There are places where it was wrong. That is absolutely true. We don't understand what happened. Um changed, right?

Um okay. What other questions might everyone have? This is a very important change. I think it's really a good change. Again, we might have to change it again in October, whatever. We don't know. So, this will be a temporary change, but at least it gets us to the point where we can work on our on our uses. Um, I might have some questions. Yes, sir. I want to hear from you. I'm waiting for you. No, you weren't. Well, we were we were waiting for you over there. Are you waiting for you? No. Now, this this is a proposed map,

correct? Oh, where it says uh adopted November 17, 2022. That's not what this is. That is that's the map that's underneath it. That's why I can't see. You're right. You're right. Graph, but I should have deleted that. Yeah. I mean, because uh putting commercial along Route 261 uh north of Route 260. Mhm. That's new, right? And again, that wouldn't be permitted without an amendment to the comprehensive plan,

the commercial change. And why are we amending the comprehensive plan? So I was asked to to look at I mean

we've got we're saying that the comprehensive plan made Horizon's RV2 but since the map says RV1 therefore we're I I don't I don't think we need to go back to the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan was made looking forward. Now we're beyond that. We're we are forward Right. So, there's a couple of things that are of concern in the comprehensive plan. Um

I know in the uh my next question is um the resiliency plan. When are we going to get back to that?

Yeah. So that's once we're done with the land use table and making the corrections like we're not doing this with the commercial, we're actually not going to update the map until the state has passed anything because GIS services are expensive. Um, but I think from the perspective of the RV1, RV2 and RMD changes, those need to be made to match up with what needs to happen and what the comprehensive plan did ask to happen. Um, in looking in specifically in the RV1 and RV2 areas and in listening to what has been said, I wanted to address in this map how we could solve some of these problems, not how we can solve them today. So, what we're doing is trying to get this to the council, have a public hearing here on May at our May meeting, get it over the council, and get back to the coastal resiliency plan and getting that in place, provided we don't get totally sidetracked by the state preeemption, right? Um, so the idea is that there's things we can fix now. There's things that probably need to be fixed to meet the goals that I'm hearing and I wanted to reflect those things for you to start thinking about that. So,

but we aren't going to adopt it. not the commercial changes because because the state is going to make some new rule which is going to change everything and so

if the state makes a new rule it won't matter if it's RV1 RV2 RHD RMD they're all going to be allow anywhere you have residential zoning will have a minimum lot size of 5,000 square ft minimum setbacks of 10 ft in front and rear, five on the sides, no density provisions, and um have to allow town homes. So, all you'll be able to maintain in variety for housing development is to keep the RV2, which allows some even higher density uses. But for right now, I think we want to try to move forward with the land use table to address the non-residential land uses. Yes, I'm I'm I've been testifying everywhere I can um because it's it is it has a lot of unintended consequences um that I don't think were considered in the legislation. that that's why I don't want to spend too too much time sort of worrying necessarily about how to differentiate the residential uses because I would say by the next meeting we'll have pretty good idea of what is going to be close to signing day so we'll have a better idea of what may or may not come out of the Um, so if we kind of talk about what commercial use is or kind of go through the different the way it's laid out and the different uses and conditions, we can maybe plug through um and talk about what uses should be where and then next month we'll know what we're looking at with regard to

housing. I'm not any happier than you are about it. Go ahead. Are you done, sir? Because we're still we're still If you have more I don't know why we're move we're moving on this. We can't if we know there's going to be changes that are going to affect everything. We don't know what those changes are. There could be amendments at the state level all over the place. And so, yes, there are amendments at the state level. So,

so I think it might be worth kind of saying, okay, we like this map layout for right now. And what we should be talking about is let's skip page one, right? Where all the residential uses are. We'll come back to that next month when we have a better idea. um and then start talking about, you know, accommodations in group living, institutional and recreational uses. Um and I spoke to the chair earlier this week and I'm not sure like if you all can really say, "Hey, bed and breakfast uses are super important to me, so I want to talk about them, but I'm less concerned about motel hotel." So that because we only have until May to have a public hearing, talk about the uses that are most concerned to everybody, I'll keep that highlighted, track them, then if we have time to get back to the other uses before we have to hold a public hearing because we're on a deadline with the council, then I will say, okay, we didn't talk about this use, we didn't talk about that use. But I would hate to get to May and say we went alphabetically and so we missed a use that was really important to Commissioner Smith.

But don't we have to go through all of them by May? I'm confused how we can do a complete job if we don't do a complete job. Well, or did I misar you? We have until May to get it to the council. If we haven't gotten through all of them by May, it still has to go to the council.

And the town council has not asked us to review them. No, but we have to because that's the only way to deal with horizons because horizons is wrong, right? Um, so that has to be adjust the map has to be adjusted to deal with horizons and there are a few other things that really have to be addressed on the map. Um, so we don't have to do what I've presented to you. there are mapping changes that I think they they are going to have to be made in May along with the land use table in order for it to work. Um, not these extensive ones that I've presented to you, but certainly the change to RV 2 for the for Horizons has to be made in order for this to work. It doesn't work without that change being made. And there are a couple other areas that were incorrectly zoned and so we need to fix those before they become an issue. So it just it's got to be done. Are you okay?

All right. Is that okay? Okay. Um time. Thank you, Miss Franklin. Okay. So let's go to page two. Then we will avoid correct. We will Yes. at the table. We're going to go to the table um and we're going to go past um page one. Uh why are we going past page one? Why do you recommend that? Just because why? Because next month we'll know what we'll have a better idea if the state is preempting our residential land use authority. Okay. Um okay, then we could talk about it today and then the state could preempt it and then we lost time. We could have been talking about other stuff.

Okay. So, when we look at this, are we going to look at it as though we've changed the zones or does it matter? So, I mean, how do we want to do this? Because now we've combined RLD with uh No, I'm sorry. We've combined R the one with RMD. No, let's look at um like there is no RHD and it is all in RHD. So we can line out RHD entirely. Okay. Right. The R RV1 and the RMD are now the same. No. No.

Yes. Because you've now taken the the residential medium density and made it RV by by this map. That's what you've done. Only some of it, but yes, you have. Go. Let me see if there is this what you want. No, I want Yeah, that is what I want. But I mine. So, yes and no. Um, the RMD was also applied to Is that the Oh gosh. Well, good. I've got so much paper. So, um, the RMD,

the RMD is currently applied to some other places, not just the ones that I converted. Right. Right. Oh, that's true. But I'm just saying, how do we want to do this now that we've in some zones? I mean, do we just want to make some assumptions that I wouldn't say RMD and RV1 are the same? That's what I just said. I think they're not. So, I would keep them. I would just delete run a run a line through RHD. I did do that. That's it. But okay, fine.

Because RMD has a different road layout than RV1. And it's the road layout that we're trying to address with RV1. Okay. So, this is that's why you need to have both of them. Yes. That's why we need our differences. We need R. That's true. RB1 because the problem we're trying to solve is different. So our cons my concern is then we're going to be looking at two different entirely different areas of the town and possibly put the same uses in but probably there may not be much of a difference uh at the end of the day. So well RV1 is still going to just be all residential.

Yeah. Oh that's true. That's true. Um yeah. Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and start looking at accommodations in living. Um, okay. Now, the the the tough one in in my book is the bed and breakfast, and that is one that we might have concerns about. I'm going to put a a star in front of it because let's just go down the entire accommodations and group living. Does anybody have any any other concerns about any of the other ones in the accommodations group living besides the one I just marked, which is bed and breakfast? I mean, what about motel, hotel? I'm assuming that looks reasonable. tourist home right now it's just uh it's actually not permitted unless you go to the uh commercial zones. The residential care facilities of course are um

SH in the residential areas and NP in the unless it's possible to put some in the commercial zones somehow. I mean, it's a it might be possible. I don't know. To turn some commercial area into an RPC. I don't know. Do we want to limit that? I That's a question. And our residential care facility. Yeah. So, it's just that your comprehensive plans there shouldn't be any residential uses in um those areas. Well, I'm not sure. Does it say it even in the neighborhood uh or the town the neighborhood commercial? Oh, no. The neighborhood. It could be in the neighborhood.

Could be in the neighborhood in the neighborhood commercial. I'm pretty sure. So, I'm thinking you may want to think about that. Do you want to consider adding residential care facilities to the neighborhood in town commercial? I would be delighted to do that if everybody else I mean, let's just mark it because we're gonna have to come back and do the whole we're gonna have to look at the whole thing. I'm going to mark it up as if we made that change and then next time, you know, if there's concerns, we can go. But as far as I'm concern means going uh being allowed possibly with conditions possibly um for um all the other residential areas, group home, I don't think there's any way we can

I mean, they have to be well, I don't I don't know what the conditions would be, but they're always allowed usually in the residential areas. Um, the dwelling for resident caretaker, I'm not exactly understanding what that means anyway, but I think that's related to like marina uses. That's why it's permitted in the Okay.

Marina. So the motel hotel obviously would be SCS SC in the in the commercials and then NP and the RC. But the bed and breakfast um I just have a a little bit of concern when you go to the definitions. If everybody can go to the definitions that we have quickly the definitions. You mean page 13? Page numbers on the draft, are they? Yes, you should have a page. It should Is this the new stuff that was just put on tonight or is this what we already had? You already have that in your packet. You already have it in your packet. Oh, it's very very light.

What page? What light page did you say it was? Well, page 13. Yeah, I think that's this. My page numbers are too light. Yeah, they are. But let me make them a little That's 19. You also have it. Well, I have it in a separate draft, but okay. It says 39 on my but it basically says um you want me to read it?

Yeah, why don't you read it? An owner occupied or manager occupied building where for compensation and only by per pre-arrangement for definite periods lodging and meals are provided not to extend 90 days per exceed 90 days per year limited to five guest rooms excluding resident management. And the reason why I'm concerned about that is um I don't mind having them uh in residential communities if there is an owner occupied situation. I'm just concerned about the manager occupied situation because it's too easy for the situation I think to be less controlled when you have just a so-called quote unquote manager. So I am leaning towards wanting it to go back because originally I know um years ago we were talking about this and it was only owner occupied. Um so somehow it got to be you know morphed into manager occupied and it uh I'm trying to find my stuff here. So what else does everybody think about that? Um it's just something I'm talking out loud that I've got an issue with. What are the concerns for like manager occupied if someone is is is a full-time resident there?

When um I've seen these facilities um in California, what happens is they usually have like a young kid, like a 21-year-old something, and they don't really care about the facility, how it looks. They don't care about any of that. They just, you know, whoever wants to come in for a night or two, take the money, that's it, you know. And sometimes the owner is not even in the country. Sometimes the owner is not watching over any details. So it means if you place this into a residential community, you're kind of having a mini hotel right in the middle of a residential community. And you know, it's there's not a lot of oversight, I guess you might say. Uh you don't have any skin in the game. And

but you're okay with it if it's owner occupied. I am only because the owner is usually on site all the time. In the definitions, it says an owner occupied or manager occupied. So if we eliminate manager occupied in the definitions, then you're okay. Yeah. I mean that it's really that it's really it's really the fact that we need somebody that we can be accountable and cares about how the property looks and yeah. So it's really I know it used to be that and I don't know how that got changed either. Um, but it somehow did. So, that's the only thing that I'm concerned about there really. Um, does anybody have any reasons to not change it back to just owner occupied?

Commissioner Gryman, do you have a concern? No, I'm fine with that. I was just concerned about something like the next page. Uh, Commissioner uh Brown, what are your thoughts, sir? And what do you think about it, Commissioner Smith? I don't have a concern. Okay. So, let's go ahead and if you don't mind, strike out uh I mean I don't think we need a motion if everybody's agreeing to it right now. Um I'm striking out or manager occupied or Yeah, exactly. We'll take it back to the owner occupied that really the most towns insist. I'm also going to strike out or manager from I underneath that. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Anything more in the accommodations and group living um categories? Yes.

Yes, ma'am. It's kind of a question from a pragmatic point of view, but it says that there has to be one off- streetet parking space provided for each guest in limited parking areas. How do you manage that and then not disrupt the residents who live there? Well, how do how do you guarantee someone has off street parking? They can't get permit. Well, but but but h but what's I want to have a bed and breakfast. And I say, "Yeah, there's What if you don't have off street parking?" Right in front of You're saying right in front of it. Huh? On site. It says on site.

On the lot. The parking has to be on the lot. So, if you come to me and you ask me for a permit for your bed and breakfast, and you can't and you say you have five guest rooms and you have two parking spaces on your lot, I'm not going to give you a permit. Okay. And I just realized I should spread this a little. Yeah. Makes sense. It's okay. Question. Let's go down to the institutional recreation on educational uses and um who are you?

Right underneath accommodations and group women. Oh, it's directly underneath accommodations women. Okay. On the other page. Yes, it's on that page. Okay. Okay, you got it. Okay, so we have um assembly, schools, cultural facility, daycare center, environmental science, parks and playgrounds, government governmental facility, private club, water oriented recreation assembly.

Yes. So that's instead of I think it used to say like churches. Um and when I researched several other um zoning ordinances, a lot of them use assembly instead of church because then it can be any facility that has organized services, meetings, events, programs. So it could be other religions,

other religions, fraternal order definitions. Yes, it's not. So, what I've done and I'm is that every single use in that table has a letter in 2901. Now, and underneath that letter is a definition. Once you all have approved it in 2911, I'm going to take these definitions and put them in 2943, I think, which is the definitions. Yeah, 2943. So when we do this, we're going to be modifying the land use table 299, 29010, 2911, and 29043 so that all the definitions that are in 29011 match 29043. But I haven't updated 2943's definitions because I want to get them approved in 2901 first and not have room for error in train like having the changes in two different places. All right. Then we have schools. Um, and I see that they are allow well they're um an SC in the MC. Okay. Well, that's interesting. How can you have a school in the maritime commercial? I mean, I guess you can have a

you can have a sailing you can have a sailing school. I guess you can. Absolutely. Um, then we have cultural facility. Uh, okay. And then uh okay now the daycare centers you have to allow home daycare centers in all zones correct so that we need to have a different line item for that right I don't know or or just change this all to I I don't know how we want to do that because are you talking about a what are you talking about home daycare so home daycare fell under office and commercial uses because fell under there because it's larger, right? But it could go under institutional, recreational, and educational so that they're in one place.

Um, I just split them up based on Oh, I see what you size, but it doesn't have if you think a person who wants to have a home daycare is going to look for it next to the other one, then we should move it there. I think they would look for it under schools myself, but then again, it is a business, so I think the description under daycare center is five or more children and 20,000 square feet. Not the home the home daycarees. We're talking about I moved to daycare which is a different home dayare. Are you are you up here? here. But she said that the home daycare,

right? Right. Isn't I'm saying I'm saying this one? Yes. I know what you're saying. You're saying I'm just saying would it be better to move the home daycare up with schools? Is that where people would look for it if you were doing a home daycare? I think that makes you guys are not

I mean I think visually I think once someone sees you know daycare daycare center they may think well I'm not even see home daycare right no I'm saying I think it'd be good to be right under it I've been there I think yes you guys are better at catching those things even though I do my best so thank you There's a lot to do. Now, the other question I have is um on daycare center

um um Okay. Yeah, I know. I think we talked about that too. The organized facility. We have a couple of them in the RV2s already, don't we? We have we have one right here on 261 which is AC right next to the Beach Elementary. We have one. So we've already got we've already been zoned for one there. We've got one up here on 260. They're non-conforming uses right now. They're not conforming uses. They're non-conforming which are allowed to continue. So

they're not allowed new ones. So, do we want to put this in the chart somehow or just leave it as is because we do have So, the question is where do you want them in the future, not where do you have them? Because a non-conforming use is allowed to continue. Okay. Okay. So, just leave it as it is. If you don't want daycarees, future daycarees in those zones, then they should stay not permitted. If you do want future daycarees in those zones, then you should probably have a variance because we don't want to compete with the two that we have already, do we? I mean, we probably need to have

somebody who wants to do one come in and ask for a variance for a certain zone or is that possible? I mean, I don't think there's competition too much right now. I probably So, Commissioner Smith can say because he has kids that are daycare age or maybe you don't. No, not yet. Yeah, but I know many looks.

Oh, the the friends I have with kids that are daycare age have a lot of trouble finding daycare. So, I don't know what it's like out here, but I don't know that it would be harmful to allow more um necessarily if you wanted to allow them in the You could allow them in the RV one and twos. Well, the ones probably on the main roads, right? And then the two we already have one in RV two as Oh yeah, we have one in each zone because we're switching the RV one now. They'll be non-conforming in the RV1.

Uhhuh. Um well, okay, let's uh it's gotten a little too complicated here. Let's we'll we'll it's really the home daycare that we have to make sure is is something that is permitted. And um

and right now your home dayc carees, they're they have to go to the board of appeals and get a special exception with conditions. Um and that's a lot. I think it might make sense to just create the conditions and allow them to get a conditional use permit from the zoning administrator rather than having to go to board of appeals to get approved as well. That is my recommendation.

I think you're right. So, how do we go about doing that? Do you want to do that now or do you want to come back with recommendations next time? Um, I can certainly if if you're amendable to I think that to making it easier for home daycarees for sure. I will make adjustments. Yeah. Why don't you go ahead and come back next month with

some conditions for the home daycare then please? Okay. I'll just check the conditions and see if anything needs to be added. Do you have any other

concerns? I think that's good. Recreational and education. Um so environmental science anybody? Um the um okay so you do have under RC you do have SC for that. I think that's important. Okay. Parks and playgrounds. Uh, of course, governmental facility, private club, um, and water oriented rec recreation. Any other concerns or or questions about this section, sir? No. Any Okay,

let's move on. I'm sorry. We've got also game and wildlife preserves, nature n nature preserves. Um, and I think um that looks probably logical and to me is hopefully everybody else. All right, now we're to office and commercial uses. Okay, does everybody remember what the home occupation minor and major is? Let's we we probably should go and re I know that uh Commissioner Smith probably needs to have a little bit of Yes, please.

Yes, of course. So this is kind of just a new way of looking at what we did with our temporary solution. Were you here for a temporary solution? I can't. But we basically said you can have a home occupation in the more intense zones that allows people to come to the site. You have different employees and you could have

Yes. site and then in the more residential zones you can't have anyone coming to the site I would say. So, I've split that. Instead of having it all one home occupation, here's two different sets of conditions, it's here's two different types of home occupation. I think it's worth thinking about allowing a major home occupation to allow to have a little more traffic, right? because you're not in the even in the major home occupation, there's not really people coming. So, you can't necessarily have your doctor's office there. Oh, sorry. You can't have your doctor's office there. You can't necessarily sell say you are making you're packaging tea tea.

I hope not. Um that's an interesting dent.

Packaging tea and you're doing online sales. So, you're doing online sales, but you want to allow, you know, your neighbors or people that are local to come pick up their tea and not have to pay shipping, right? That seems like something, and this kind of ties into the comment, right, that we got earlier tonight, is can we allow in a major home occupation where in the areas where we can allow more traffic to come to have more options for c serving customers on the site? So that's a question to consider because you you do have more people trying to be entrepreneurial out of their home and how much do you want to support that and how much can you support that given your road pattern? Um, I know that in my area there's literally no extra room to park anybody on a street or anything. And probably uh in Commissioner Smith's area as well. Well, you might have some areas there street parking

street down some areas, but on be street of course there's nothing but um it would have to and I think that's the RV1 like your RV have a major home office. Yeah, the RV1 is what I'm referring to now. So this is Yeah. Okay. So when you're talking about major home occupation, what zones would you be talking about now? So you you can allow them I would say in the RV2, right? That is a little denser. There's usually parking lot. Yeah. So that can be accommodated. Um all the commercial areas where you might have housing.

Sure. And I would say, you know, and this is might be a controversial statement, but having them in the RLD and the RMD, there is the space for it. There is the space for that. Yes. Parking.

It's, you know, folks are going to say, I don't want cars coming through my neighborhood that are for those businesses. And I think that's the question for you guys is to balance out how do you allow people to build their businesses out of their homes while also you know reducing traffic and maybe that's you know x% of your gross sales can be conducted out of your home. So, if there's suddenly a lot of traffic going to a home occupation, the neighbors are going to complain and then you're going to request the sales data and say, "Sorry, but you're going to have to move to an office. You can't have a permit for this many on much on-site sales." Realize that's an enforcement issue.

Um, so, but I think it's it's worth thinking about. Most there's a lot of modernization of the home occupation ordinances was one of the things I found doing research for this and that was one of the things they talked about. Uh I'm okay. So the establishment or operation of a home occupation shall be harmonious with the character of neighboring res residential uses and shall not create traffic or parking demands out of character with neighboring properties. So that is the one condition that would this would this this would fall under basically is that particular condition.

Yes. But I do think applying it to some percentage of sales gets a little more specific because you know additional parking or sorry harmonious with character and not creating traffic out of character with neighboring properties sort of gets a little fluffy for enforcement. Whereas if you're doing 50% of your sales out of your house, you're generating more traffic. Right. Right. But what if you have a business where you're generating a little bit of a bit of sale and having a lot of traffic anyway? It's the traffic that really matters. I I mean, could you do a number of cars per day?

Are you going to track that? I I mean that would be something that the residents would be able to track but have enforcement if you had limit five per day or something you know or one per hour or the the problem that residents would have would be just having too many too much traffic during let's say in a certain amount of time um and to me that would be the only issue. Uh, and I'm not even sure for the RLD or the RMD it would be much of an I could see at the heritage it could be kind of an issue at times. I could, you know, um, hard doors banging, etc. People staying out and talk. I could see where it could be an issue. It's kind of houses are close together a little bit. Um, I would I mean I would limit it to how many uh how many people a day they can have myself. I don't know how you do that.

You're talking major or minor? The major. The major. I mean, I don't want, you know, here's the thing is we've already got one business that we noticed out here, right near here in the RV2 area.

They're doing an entire business right there and they've got five trucks and they've got an umbrella out where they're doing a lot of their work. I mean, it's it's really to me an annoyance for the neighborhood, but nobody's complaining. But it says besides the required parking for the dwelling unit, additional parking located on the to the side or rear yard shall be provided as follows. one space for the non-resident employed on the premises and other parking must comply X is uh if you look at X letter X it says that same thing

about the harmonious with and I guess if I might the other thing is that there could be cars that are creating a lot of traffic headaches that are not sales Mhm. It might be someone dropping something off. It might be a lawyer coming. You're my Amazon guy. Whatever you do, it might be an accountant coming to do I mean, they're just just businesses generate traffic. Oh, it's not just customers. You're saying, you know, not necessarily just customers. I don't know how you even can equate.

It's like the Amazon guy coming around and delivering, you know, boxes to your business and stuff. Um, I mean that is an issue generating more traffic, whatever it is, more Amazon, etc. I told you about the guy behind me had a business. The Amazon truck was going on those little alleys, you know, maybe three or four times a day and it destroyed the little alley back there. Um but um maybe the I'm not sure if we do say this in the minor home occupations, but the minor home occupations may need to state that deliveries, large deliveries or frequent deliveries cannot be coming to the site and the minor, right? Well, I think it should be which of course I guess your household could have Amazon.

I mean I think it should be for the major one too. I mean how do you even quantify that? like what's too many? What's I'll tell you I'll tell you that the enforcement is going to have to come from the residents in the neighborhood. They're gonna have to I mean we're not gonna be able to, you know, put cameras everywhere and make sure flicker. I'm just saying. But I I mean I don't want the entire RLD to become just businesses because they've got the large land or the large lots um and be able to, you know, use it for uh housing and their um you know, this guy has a gutter business or something that he does out on the street. You know, in California, we have people doing automotive in the streets. They just put an umbrella up and they do their automotive work right there in the streets.

Well, they're not supposed to be doing that. No, I know. But people love it because, you know, it's cheap. You know, they're not having to, you know, pay for the the mechanic with the, you know, with the commercial area, right? But doing So, if you doing your business outside of your building, then that is a violation of your home occupation permit,

right? So, Right. No, I'm not saying that's going to be a problem here. I think I'm going back to the traffic issue and the um the excess noise from the delivery trucks, etc. How do we protect the neighbors from somebody having a major business um maybe there's a gross sales amount, right? like your business cannot exceed X amount of gross sales and remain a home occupation. Oh, right. Well,

there's got to be something we can pull that's quantifiable rather than tracking vehicles that helps define that. So, well, you you we do have the uh property uses no more than 40% of the principal dwelling floor area. That's actually giving them almost half the house to use, which is a huge amount of Yeah, I gave them 10% more. And you did. And I'm thinking you can disagree with me.

I think we need to I mean, I think we should go back to 30 because I think once you start getting to half the house, almost half the house. I mean, you know, who's going to measure exactly 40%. But I think then we are encouraging the house to become more of a principal business than a principal residence.

Okay. So, I think it really should go back to the 30. It's always been 30. I know that a lot of towns use 30. Um, seems to be a, you know, the the norm is 30%. So, I I disagree a little bit here because I I'm I'm all for like people pursuing businesses within their households, especially in today's time, right? There's lots of people that are pursuing alternate uh means. So, and I I don't think the traffic is as big of an issue as is like the majority of people that have businesses mail out their products. I feel like there's not as many people that are coming to the home to pick up to pick up the whatever they're selling. Like I feel like that's the uh a lot of the a lot of the household or a lot of the the home home businesses that I know of that we order from on Etsy or on like whatever they they mail. So I don't think the traffic um I think limiting maybe the hours of when traffic can when there can be traffic to business hours when people are at work.

Okay. I think would be um fact don't we we don't have anything about times do we? We really should have the the business hours only type situ. We should have time in here if it's from 10 to three or if it's from I I like that that idea. It wouldn't stop people from doing the work inside the house but it would just stop some of the outward traffic and the employees coming in. I don't even mind the 40%. If if someone wants to turn their house into to their business, into their source of income, then I I don't have a problem with that as long as it's not affecting, like you said, like like the neighborhood. But I feel like we can there's some reasonable restrictions that we can do that without without uh

Okay. Well, I like the idea of the time. I think we should have a time for both minor and major. I don't think employees should be coming in at 2 in the morning and, you know, uh or whatever. I think there should be a uh maybe a 9-to-f5 type of hours or something um for both minor and major or so or uh on-site sales in major and employ well it's only in major really that only major that we are on-site sales and and services must be conducted between regular employment and employees I mean I really I think the employees should also be during daytime hours.

But I but that may not fit that business model or that type of whatever is that they're doing. They might be dealing with overseas and they can only do something. I I have it. I know. I understand. But I'm just saying again if you have an employee coming in and going in at 2 in the morning just like anyone else. Let's look at the heritage. Yeah. The heritage. Let's let's just use that house that Yeah. that group of of houses. Yeah, they're pretty close together. True. So, if somebody is going and leaving at two in the morning because they're on a certain, you know, whatever time frame. Yeah. They're going to disturb the people next door.

But wouldn't that be the same thing? Someone someone um you know, uh wouldn't that be the same thing someone having a sleepover guest and they have to leave early to catch a flight? But that's every so often. And I'm talking about somebody every day coming in and going into and and if you're a homeowner, usually you you're you go into the garage or you're set or you're quiet. But if you're an employee, you just don't really care and you're maybe talking on the phone, you're doing that outside. If I'm an employee, I'd like to leave my place of work and go home, too. You know what I mean? Like that's would I'm just saying you know it's got me be careful

the you know when that particular you know subdivision the houses are pretty close together and I'm just I'm just trying to protect their my neighbor works for peaceful living say again my neighbor works for FedEx he gets home at 2 a.m. Sometimes it wakes the dog up. He's not being rude and my dog would always be barking it too as well. But so my point is like it doesn't necessarily have to be the home occupation generating. It doesn't. But adding one more person that doesn't live there is not that you know is is a situation that

and if you look most towns again have that condition as part of their home occupation condition because it's an issue. It can be it can be an issue to have an employee coming out at, you know, whatever time. So anyway, I would on-site sales services and employment and employment shall be conducted between 8:00 am and 6 p.m. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Anything that's normal business hours, I think, is good. Uh, should I say Monday through Friday or do we want to allow some I think that really matters. I don't really think that matters so much. Okay.

I would go like from 8 to 8 because you're not waking someone up at 8 8 at night. I just think people might need extra hours. That's just my thought having worked late hours myself when I was still practicing law, but it was at my office of course, but I don't care, you know, just so that people can sleep. I mean, I think that's I've put it from 8 to 8. Is that okay with you? That's fine. That's okay. That's fine.

Okay. Um All right. So, we're we're back to the um home occupation. Does everybody understand the difference between minor and major now as far as uh the conditions and everything? So, basically, we've got conditions on in all the zones. They're going to have to meet the conditions that we set in all the zones, but I would still issue that permit. Now, do you really need um conditions in the in the commercial zones too for that? I mean, it seems like that would be permitted, not commercial, but I whatever. Or commission. I see what you're saying.

In other words, a home occupation is just permitted without conditions in the NCTC. That does make sense. Yeah. Um, hold on. You mean take away the C's? Yeah. Yeah. Just put P just by the nature of where it is. Okay. Okay. Then we have offices. Offices. Can you go over offices with us a little bit? I'm sorry you were typing, but can you go over offices with us a little bit?

Um, okay. Just sorry, I wanted to make sure I had that done. Okay. So, offices um are separate because they're different in terms of traffic generation. Um, but the conditions are the same. Let's see. Oh, that's because I have two different things. Medical offices and regular offices. I have them listed as separate because they're different in terms of traffic generations, but the condition is all the same. And do we want to adjust the conditions or combine the two is a question that I had. Offices are a facility for processing, manipulation or application of business information or professional expertise and and which may or may not offer services to the public. An office is not materially involved in fabricating, assembling or warehousing of physical products for the retail or wholesale market or engage in the repair of products or retail services. So what we're saying is it's not retail, right? It's federalish business. You know, you can, for example, someone came in asking if they can have an office for their sales showroom. It's located in a different location. Like, yes, you can have an office for your sales showroom. You just can't have a sales showroom, right? Um, so that's sort of the difference there. If you look at the next definition which is medical offices and clinics that's offices and clinics for medical or dental examination or treatment of persons as outpatient including laboratories incidental there too. Now both of these have the same conditions listed for them in your existing ordinance. So, um I don't know if you want to look at trying to combine them or leave them separate because they're in different separate dish they're permitted in separate types of districts. Um

because right now offices are permitted in RV1 which I think we should remove. Right. RV, right? RV2, I would leave them there because um those denser houses or housing developments often have an office associated with them,

right? Um but then NCTCPC and MC which is where all the medical offices are allowed and since sort of we're talking about Horizons which is going to be in the RV2 should we just allow medical offices and clinics in the RV2 right where they're really going into either a mixeduse building or someone has to replace housing Right. Again, I'm thinking of um Heritage. The Heritage is an RV2 though. Yeah.

So, it's not permitted. Well, I have it as conditional, right? RB2 medical offices. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm looking at offices period. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. Right. Office. Oh, medical. Yeah. Is not permitted. Exactly. So, the only difference between offices and medical offices is whether they're permitted in the RV2. Why do you recommend them not being in RV1? Because RV1 is supposed to just have

housing because we've we've what we said we're doing with the map is changing RV1 to focus on the areas where there's limited off street parking. And so, you wouldn't really want that because you do have these these are actual offices, not home occupations. So they're going to generate traffic. Gotcha. So for example, as I'm winding down my law practice, I type motions and things in my home. No clients, no staff. Yeah. So are you saying that that falls under home occupation minor, not offices? Correct. Okay. Correct.

Okay. So if we allow medical and office clinics in the RV2 then we can combine these two uses into just offices right it will include well offices and medical clinics. So it will be any kind of office including a doctor's office. They are different, but since they have the same list of conditions, does it make sense to make them separate when we're trying to make this more streamlined? Which ones are you saying are the same? Offices and what? Number four and number five. Offices and medical offices and clinics.

Number one, two. So, you're on page 24. Oh, I have no clue. Oh, if so there's So there's the table and then each use has descriptions. So on page 24 that's actually not page 24 anymore because I added more to my stuff again. Darn it. Um it's going to be p probably page 22. 21 or 22 for you. Um,

when you say you're going to combine them, but so then like offices are medical clinics are not permitted in RB1 RV2. Offices are conditional. How do you combine those two? What I'm actually saying is offices shouldn't be permitted in RV1 anymore now that we're making this change. What about RV2? Okay, RV2, remember we have Horizons and this is where kind of the medical offices comes in, right? Because a medical office in Horizons is okay. Right. And what about Heritage? Heritage is in RV2.

Oh, I'm sorry. What is that? I thought RV I thought it was in the RV2. Oh, no, no, that is in the RMD. Okay, got it. RV2 is going to wind up Yes. only reflecting the areas that have town homes or condos. Yes. Yes. They have more parking areas, too. Okay. So, theoretically, right, you could convert your condo

from a residential use to a medical office or a regular off. Well, you you could convert it to a regular office, right? If we allow it in the RV2. The other thing we could do, right, is have offices Um, we could we could create a separate thing for the RV2. Um, so that it allows stuff in horizons and not any where else. So we could say offices and medical clinics are only allowed in the NCTC, PC, and MC districts. And since they have the same conditions, we make them one thing. Then we say offices in combination with residential use. And then that's permitted with conditions in the RV2. And the condition is that it's in a mixeduse building constru. It's basically basically the condition is that it's

it's for Horizon Horizon. That's fantastic. Um, so you like you guys like that approach? Do you understand what she's saying? Better sort of except that you're you're saying that you couldn't have a you could only have a medical clinic in Horizon. Well, no, you can only you can have a medical clinic in Horizons in the RV2. Then you could also have a medical clinic anywhere in the NCTC, PC, and MC. Okay. Okay. Yes.

All right. So, any questions so far on any of the ones above? Uh, and then we've gotten down to medical clinics. Now, neighborhood retail. Uh, we have a condition in the RV1. Is it conditional in the RV1? Okay. I want to make sure I get this right the first time for you guys. Yes, exactly. Sorry. Where what where are we going to next? Oh, we're down to neighborhood retail.

Yes, it's Do I have a C a conditional under RV1? It's conditional use in the RV1 district, but it's permitted in a couple other districts. But do we want to have it? Oh, it should be RV2, not RV. It should be NP in RV1, right? Right. NP there and and in the RV2 conditional. Is that what you just said? So, we Yes. So, because we're fixing the Yes. the issue. Yes. This where it says RV1 conditional should actually say RV2. Yes. But Oh, yes. So, those those uses basically would be allowed in horizons. Yes is what that says, right?

Yes. Now we have general retail. Um what's the difference? I mean, I sort of know, but sure. Neighborhood retail is small scale, no more than 3,000 square feet. It's smaller things like an art studio, an antique shop, shoes and accessories, right? Like little sort of specialty stuff. Whereas general retail is anything little plus you can have these bigger like appliance and repair computer and software department grocery is grocery store separate oh I think groceries in the smaller too as long as it's a small grocery store make it

do we not want it condition or don't we don't want it permitted in the NC general retail or is that too big for N for the uh NC general retail Hold on. Oh, that's right. It's here. The definitions. Okay. Retail is currently not permitted in the NC. I guess the question is, do you want to change that? Yeah, that's I mean, I'm perfectly happy with it going to a um permitted in the general retail, unless any of you guys think otherwise in the neighborhood commercial. Neighborhood commercial is like up where Tangled is. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh those are little little guys right where the residential community is surrounding it. So that's what the neighborhood commercial which is permitted but the general retail sorry the neighborhood retail is permitted in those areas right now. The general retail would not be permitted in there because it's a larger scale and that's going to go in the the TC and the PC MC. Well, I'm fine with leaving it the way it is. I mean I I don't care. Yeah. I don't think some of you guys in Well, it could be it could get too big or it could just be I don't know. It could be a little tiny. I don't know. I guess you're right. I guess it would be too much for those little neighborhood places. There's not a lot of parking.

Um personal services. Um again with the RV1, you want to change that to NP or what do you want to do with that? The RV1 will just where wherever it says it's conditional in RV1, we're going to change it to the RV2 with this is going to be C and RV1 is going to be NP or it's not permitted. Right. And then swapping those two, right? Right. And then the general services, uh,

you have it pretty much NP all across the board except for I think they're in the NLC. General services including contractor shops, dancing school, financial services, banks, mailing and shipping, uh, music or art studio, plumbing shop, copy printing, professional school. I think like a little ballet school or something. I'm sorry. Did you say that? No. Him. I said a ballet because I took dancing lessons and what little girl didn't take ballet lessons. I just don't know. Okay. You know, you get little fake nails for your daughter. You should know this stuff.

Um um general. Oh jeez. Um crystals. It's it's where you're permitting it and the size of it. So, we could what we could do is um we could move like we would all love a fitness studio up, you know. So, and every community traffic, right? Um yes, that's right. That's parking.

General services, personal services. Um they're actually permitted in all the same zones. it would be conditional in the RV2 zone, not the RV1 zone. Um, so it's really not that it's being allowed your your general services if you want to permit them in the RV2 zone. There's just not a lot of places anyway, right? Yeah. Right. Um,

so with your dancing school in your in in your instructor's home, that is maybe more of a home occupation if it's small, right? If it's taking less than 30%, but it's a major home occupation because people are coming to it. And so you can only have it in those zones where the traffic can handle it, which is what we were just talking about. I guess some some of this might be how the person interprets where they fall in. Although there are the because you're saying it could be what did you say?

So if I I played violin. I had a violin instructor. We met in her living room. That was less than 30% of her house. That was a home occupation, right? Got it.

Not a music school. Um, but she would have had to be in a specific zone in Chesapeake Beach, right, to get a permit because my mom dropping me off and picking me up was traffic, right? And so that's that's what's going to be the deciding for this the small scale other the the general retail or sorry general services is going to be this whole house is a dancing studio and so that's why it's in the commercial zone because it's a fully commercial use now in

it's permitted in NC it's permitted in The let me see general retail is permitted in the TCP MC and RC neighborhood or sorry general services are TCPCMC. Um probably and personal services still both of them are in those only in the commercial but not the NC. We can add them to the NC. Um why not NC? Because the NC or the MC the NC. Yes.

And the answer to that is because when I combined the uses and gave them these categories, I looked at what the underlying uses I was moving where they were permitted. And so the personal services uses were not being permitted in the NC previously. That doesn't mean we can't move them there. But I'm asking why can't we? Why can't? There's no reason we can't. Now, we already have personal services already in the NC. That's Tangled and the barberh shop. Mhm. So, we have to I mean I mean we don't have to should say see or permitted asking.

I have a question. Why like why couldn't you have in the low density could not someone general services let's say which could be a dance studio right? So instead of a residence, the whole thing is an ant studio. No, I'm No, I'm just saying if So if it's someone that has their basement fitted out, mirrors, bars, so I think that comes to a dwelling unit in combination with a commercial use. Okay. Which is permitted in RV2 and the TC.

And then how about in um like the low density? That would be seems to me if you're low density you're not going to have you might have a long driveway you might not have any so I would say if if the general agreement is Sarah look into how to allow commercial service uses that are larger than a home occupation in residential areas, then I can do that and bring that back.

Cindy, when we we we were driving today, there were some places that had like a long driveway, let's say, and if they had enough parking and it didn't affect anything. We're talking about the NC specifically, right? No, she's asking about the low density resial area. Yeah. I mean like wherever there's like low density but you have you like I I look at some of the places that we drove around and they had enough um maybe I don't

if it's permitted in RV2 why isn't it all of these where it's permitted in RV2 should be permitted in low density yeah I guess that's maybe what I was so the RV2 permission missions are actually for Horizons, right? Except

RV2 is really only allowing mixed use. We could remove the conditions, right? But that complicates things for Horizons because now they have this mixeduse permission that's non-conforming and every time they want to change from a physical therapist to a Pilates studio, they've got to go for a variance. Whereas if we just permit some of these uses in the RV2 in a mixeduse building, then that lets Horizons keep functioning, right? And if say in somewhere else in the RV2, for whatever reason, they decided to redevelop where their townhouse is into a mixeduse building, then they would also be able to have those personal services in those areas. But I'm not Did that address why if it's okay let's say in RV2 for Horizons it would not be allowed in low density because it's not mixed use or right um I think it depends on on what your use is right because what

ballet studio right what what we were just talking about when we were talking about home occupations was traffic generation and how much traffic generation is. Okay. And so I think when you're talking about a ballet studio that has expanded beyond a home occupation is what you're saying and I think we have the major home occupation at 40% still. I don't think we changed it back to 30. Right. So you're saying even your basement

because most of those houses are two stories I think. um then you could that could still be a home occupation and it may be just a matter of working with staff once this is completed to say hey I have a home business what kind of a permit do I need and putting that information on the website so that people have an easy way to understand is this a home occup you know I want to do this thing in my home can I get a home occupation permit instead of having to have a commercial business permit video's turning into the cobbler over there.

That's very That's very funny. That's very funny, Commissioner Smith. Very funny. Okay, so are we are we good with general services or do we want any more discussion on it? Are we good? Let that die. Three implant nurseries. Um okay, I think that looks appropriate. Anybody else? Anything else on the tree and plant nurseries? CPC.

No. Okay. Contractor shop. As we can see, it's um So the contractor's shop is not their office where they do office work. It's actually where they do the physical part of their job.

Yes, it is defined as a business engaged in construction, demolition, maintenance or repair of buildings, structures or infrastructure or the design, installation, maintenance or removal of vegetation, landscaping, hardscaping or snow. And this includes the storage of construction vehicles, heavy equipment, trailers, administrative offices, and materials associated with the building. If it was just the office, then it could fall under office. Yeah. Right. Okay. Good. Any any issues about that? Okay. Restaurant class one, two, and three. We are looking at

I reversed these. So, it used to be that your most intense restaurant was class one and your least intense restaurant is class three. I switched it. Okay. So, class one is most intense. Class one is now the least intense. It's now the least one. Okay. Because that makes sense, right? That makes logical sense. And before it was the opposite and it was bothering me.

Um, I also changed the definitions of those a bit. um they were a bit uh kind of clunky and outdated sounding. Um so I've made them a little easier to read and a little more modernized in the language. And those are on page I would guess 27. So, when we're talking about like a um some kind of a tasting room or something that tasting rooms are their own thing, but they're they're a separate thing entirely. Okay. Yeah. Yes.

Oh, in fact, that's next. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Um Okay. So, if there's no questions about that, we'll turn the page over. Tasty room is now Okay, there we go. tasting room. The only thing I was going to suggest with regard to that is considering allowing it in the RC. Um, sometimes people enjoy, you know, tasting wine in a beautiful location. Um, obviously it would probably need some conditions with regard to minimum like size, parking, disturbance, etc. Um, but I don't know what you guys think about that. Wow.

I think with conditions I think we may want to look at that. What are you all What are you thinking about that? Say change the RC. Yeah. I mean, let's look. If you're amenable, I can bring a set of conditions to consable. Okay. I guess I'm trying to wonder. See, that's the what? Well, we're looking at possibly putting it into the RC. Putting some use conditions into the RC for the pacing room like where would you like an RPC?

No, an RC the resource conservation. So RC Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Something temporary. You're not talking about a permanent structure or are you still talking permanent structures? Potentially a permanent structure, but there would have to be like a size limitation. There would have to be parking limitations. There would have to be a lot of conditions to allow. But a lot of your RC, right, is is on it is in areas that are sensitive. Yes.

And also beautiful, right? And so the question is, is there a way to permit that that has minimal impact on the area that it's located in? And it might not even be feasible even if we do permit it. There's probably only probably two actual places that it could go. Um, but it does give another option in the RC. Sure. Um, as long as it's not impacting everything is okay. Right. So, I'm going to say for check for conditions of the 58 acres that are still buildable. Where are you talking?

Well, didn't you say didn't we say there's 58 acres left in the the town that could be developed? Chair, we do have some build buildable acres left. I think they're in theif in the 50 acre situation, right? We've got about 50 acres left. So, I'm just Or is that including some of the RC? I don't know. I think based on your land use map, you're you're built out aside from infill and streamalk way. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, there's so streamwalk way and that other what's that other section? There's like some sections of Richfield Stationfield that still

approved, but that had Yeah, that's right. There you go. So, those aren't new development. That's already subdivided. That's true. That is probably what we're talking about right there. Built out yet, but they're in the process of going through. Yes. What? Well, I'm just trying to think of where if it's re if it's resource conservation and I guess how much of that is in private hands now? Well, why don't we have It's a lot in private lands hands, but it's resource conservation, so they can't develop it, right? Okay. And I'm not suggesting we allow large amounts of development in the resource conservation

area. Um, just and I was thinking about tasting rooms and where people enjoy, you know, doing that and is there a way we can allow that in those zones with a large to go along with that. Well, so cannabis wouldn't be in the if you had an egg zone, you might need to allow growing, but you don't have an egg zone. So, okay. So, um if you want to come back with some condition, I'm sorry. Yeah, the rooms the rooms that are allowed in resource conservation are now very small buildings.

Yes. So, a tasting room would also be a very small build. Like I think a tasting room could have the same level of impact generally as um like a environmental science area um water oriented rec recreation um because you're not going to you're not going to be able to allow it to be rented out for events. You're going to have a very minimal size. You're going to have minimal parking, all of that. And so it could be kept in line with some of the other uses that are permitted in the our I don't think it should be added. Okay. You don't I'm I'm kind of with Larry, you know. I mean, we'd have to see

what we can. I mean, you know, I'm fine with what however you guys want to go on that because it's iffy for me, but you know. Okay, that's fine. Commissioner Smith, what are your thoughts about it? I agree with Commissioner Brown. Okay. Thank you, Mr. All right, then. We'll move down to tavern. Let's put the tavern in the RC. Oh, no. Let's not do that.

Okay. What do we think about uh what we have down here? It looks uh you've got the SE and TCPMC. Okay. Yeah. So, it was under SC, but I moved it under SE because I permitted because of what I did with the class three restaurants. It allows a higher level um and the tavern is really more focused on the alcohol than the alcohol. Absolutely.

Indoor entertainment and recreation. Indoor entertainment and recreation. So that is give me a sec that is going to be a facility operated as a business providing active or passive recreational entertainment or athletic activities entirely within enclosed building which includes facilities for organized sports, amusements and leisure activities. Um the noise and visual impacts must be contained within the structure and it does not include a bar, restaurant or nightclub. So

okay. Um uh then we got the outdoor entertainment and recreation. Any issues with either the indoor or the outdoor entertainment? With that we do have a question. I mean, I I think I've seen like that if it's let's say um like a I guess a roller rink would fit in that. So, and I think sometimes those places do have like beer for the parents or like a bowling alley will have food and and alcohol and I just thought I would bring that up. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome.

Okay. The animal care establish ballet class. What roller rings do you go to anyway? Same establishment. Yeah. Establishments. Okay. Do you want me to do you guys want me to look at No, I think she goes to the bowling alley. Is it Well, no. a bowling alley here in this and we probably have no but anyway

I'm just saying that it might it might that might be like a dealbreaker for someone who needs to to be able to pay the note that they make some of the money on the liquor and the parents while their kids are doing a half axle you know so I think what that would fall under is a restaurant class so you you've got two things happening in the same building you have your entertainment and you also have a restaurant classroom Right? Because you're usually selling like pizza and hot dogs, too. So, you just need you just need to get the permit for both

uses. Okay. Okay. So, we're down to animal care establishment. And it looks like uh those that to me looks good. Anybody else have an issue with animal care establishment? All right. Cannabis. We're going to just let that be as is right now or what do you want to do? Well, we're going to talk about cannabis ADUs and solar energy systems at the next meeting, okay? Because they're bigger things. Um, I did notice that while you have liquor stores, you actually don't permit liquor stores anywhere. They're not prohibited, right? But they're also not sure

specifically allowed in any zone. So, I I stuck that in there as a should we talk about should we put in a definition decide where which which commercial districts they're allowed in? Or if they're allowed in all commercial districts, then they're just retail, right? General retail or neighborhood retail. I don't think they should be in the neighborhood retail, but I think they can be in other the other retails. General retail. General Yes. So, we can just allow them as a use in there. Okay. I think so. And that's my anybody have any other concerns about that? What are you adding to general read? He's talking about um alcohol like uh

like Roland's Sorry. There's a reason I put that next to cannabis. Anywhere you allow alcohol sales, you have to allow cannabis sales. No. Is that right? That's correct. Wait, said what? Anywhere you allow alcohol sales, you have to allow cannabis. Oh my gosh. So that means Roland will start a new state. That is part of the state law. Basically, CA cannabis and alcohol have to be treated the state like a piece of chewing gum. Okay. Well, so the the part of the reason you don't have cannabis yet is because there are like distance regulations. Yeah.

And I am working on measuring. So I don't think Roland's would because of its p how close is it to the school? It depends on how close it is to the school. Um but so they wouldn't be forced to because that would supersede if if they were too close to a school. Well, also there's like I think that Calbertt County only has like two or three licenses that it can give out anyway. So they don't have a lot which is why you know your cannabis situation isn't pressing. Yeah. Oh, so when you said that if you sell alcohol you have to sell cannabis. No. Yeah. That's what you thought. You said they had to.

You don't have to sell cannabis if you sell alcohol. But you're zoning whatever you permit wherever you permit alcohol sales then you also have to permit okay cannabis. So that's why I put it separately because I think I don't see it on here. It's right above cannabis be. No, I only see animal care. We don't I don't think we have Oh, it's not in your table. So, you you have I put it further down and I might have added it after I sent it. Okay. Okay. But we need to we need to think about that in conjunction with cannabis. So, put a pin in that. Be aware of that. We can move on to light industrial. Sorry.

Reap for madness. Reap for madness all over again. Okay. So, we have light industrial utility and related uses. just generally look into that whole section because to me it's pretty much not permitted except for the automotive service which is in the town commercial area you have yeah and I think that's under one of the one of the issues is that first category craft artisan assembly and manufacturing

which means if I mean a home occupation is home occupation right so if you're If you're crafting in your basement with less than 30%, you can still do that. Um, or even in your shed,

but if you want to have a larger shop or that use in combination in some of these other zones, like it's not allowed in the NC, the TC or the PC. And maybe it could be allowed in those zones with conditions that keep it at a smaller scale or limit certain types of assembly that maybe are more noxious or more noise producing. Um because I think it's it's limiting people who have small woodworking shops

because you're trying to prevent, you know, people who are using really smelly products or loud machines at all hours. So if you're amenable to me coming forward with some conditions to allow that in more areas, I will bring that to you all. What does anybody think about that with craft artisan assembly and manufacturing? Some of that stuff can get awfully loud like with drills and it can the problem is the the type of equipment you're using can be an issue,

right? Um so to me essentially that all looks appropriate. Um anybody have any issues with that uh section light industrial utility etc. Okay. Then we get down to solar energy bus transit stations temporary uses and carnivals and other building incidentals to construction. So take a look quickly and see what you think. What is S? Oh, under MC you have carnival is Oh, yeah. S. Yes. Do you mean SC or SE or just silly?

What does S stand? That is a great question and that's my question for you because that is actually what it said. Um, so there's an error in the land use table. And did you mean SC or SE? Both of these mean it probably was SC. It was probably the SC. Okay. Um, now that means that if you want a car, you want to bring a carnival, you have to go to the board of appeals to get approval. Well, I would think a carnival is going to take a lot of conditions, I would assume. And I would think it would it should go to that level of conditioning. That's I mean a carnival is kind of a major deal.

Now I guess we want to condition I mean if it's a little even kid carnivals at a well we have one church. I'm trying to think of where you might have a carnival than the church. You might have one at the church. Um I guess the question is what is a carnival? Yeah. What if someone has stuff for their kids party? I guess that's not a carnival like one. The question is what is your definition of a carnival? is a temporary out beach used to have down at the parking. Yes, of course. Of course. But those were pretty big. You know, those are those take a lot of effort to put together. I'm sorry. Read that again.

A temporary outdoor establishment involving the setup of amusement rides, games of chance or skill, animal shows, aerial performances, or similar entertainment activities. This use includes associated concession stands, temporary structures, and mechanical equipment. Yeah, see that to me. And the next line says special exception. Yeah. Yes. That answers I guess that's actually Yeah.

So if you want to have a carnival, you have to go to board of appeals, which probably means you won't have carnivals, right? Because that's a lot of expense and time to go through to set up a carnival. So that's why I wanted to bring it up. If you have it just conditional, right, and they can get a permit without having to go through the expense and uncertainty and time of going to um board of appeals, then you you might have carnivals. But I don't think you're going to have a temporary use carnival come here and go to board of appeals.

So, if you did it under conditional, would you have a set of conditions already written up that you would demand or how would you want to do that? So there's already a set of conditions which is it must be conducted by a registered nonprofit organization, place of worship, volunteer, fire department, or school located within the town. Oh, this is a nonprofit carnival. Okay. I was thinking one of these things that rotate around. I thought they were the carney kind of, you know, you know, the toothless wonders and all. I just thought we were talking about all kinds of Okay. Sorry. So we are talking about little minor carnivals that you have at the school, the church.

I think we should then Yeah, you're right. It should have a in my opinion should probably with this conditional situation, conditional use permit or something because it's connected to the town sort of like it's a little more well but it's just not as involved and you know it just takes a letter of insurance. It takes you know just the town administrator may require a refundable site restoration bond to ensure removal of all trash debris. Simple. Um there's a limited number of attendees.

I'm actually I'm actually in favor of having carnivals myself. I wouldn't mind having it see and I wouldn't mind having it uh well I think I think the MC is the only place we can have it. But what about if it's like it the church itself? Yeah,

I think you would want to permit it wherever assembly is permitted, right? Um, which is going to be in the NC TC and PC. Um the only sort of issue right that sits here is that the school is a non-conforming use in a residential zone. Um and so if the school wanted to have a carnival, it would not be able to. Um but oh

uh but if you permit them now if you want to permit them right if we're going to change them conditional use at those places um why don't I put some more time and thought into how to make this permissible in all the places that these institutions are. Um good. I like that. and come back with that. Everybody okay with that idea? Yes. Yeah.

Thank you. And then we have building incidental to construction blah blah. That looks fine with me. And the garage sales. Is everyone okay with conditions or wait a minute? Hold the phone. We were going to try. We were going to make that per uh P, right? Sorry. Garage sales. We don't want to have them come and get a permit from you. Oh yeah, that's that means so we're going to turn garage sales into or yard sales whatever into permitted right everybody or what do you think? Well conditional is permitted actually well so they can still come come get a permit um with the C from me. So C allows them to get a permit from me,

right? But you don't I mean we're not going to are you even going to require them to have a permit? People aren't going to get them, right? I mean, yeah, you can't even force it, but I mean, provided specified conditions are met throughout the period of use. The applicable conditions are incorporated by reference to the appropriate section of this ordinance.

And I think this brings up another sort of issue, right? Is we could say that is a conditional use. We could also say it's a conditional use that doesn't actually need a permit, right? We can decide what does need to come get a permit or not. These this conditional use still exists. These conditions still must be met, but you don't don't need a permit. So, if you are having a garage sale or estate sale, you're fine. If you are having if the articles of sale are not the personal possession of the seller and they're happening more than four times a year at the same location or they're happening at 6:00 a.m. you're going to get shut down whether you have a permit or not. You just don't need a permit but you still have to follow the rules.

Perfect. You think that people The only thing I wonder is do you think people would even think that that a garage sale, yard sale, I don't even know if this would be on their radar radar to even look because it seems so personal probably and that's probably, you know, something we might want to look at doing some more outreach on. Um, I will say, I haven't seen this here, but in Prince George's County, there are places that just have these sales. Yeah. Ongoing regularly, and they're not actually Yes. Ongoing.

They're a yard sale, but they're not really a yard sale, right? Um, and so that's why these conditions are put here. Exactly. Absolutely. I mean, I guess the the HOAs, you know, could be notified of whatever transpires. The HOAs would be issuing would be down here on the, you know, this area down here probably, but it could be the it's still could be the HOA. I mean, it could be, but they've got more restrictions than we do down here. Absolutely true.

All right. So, what do you want us to do about that? just um I just put a note to you know say that this changes to state that it does not require a permit. Um once we pass some of this I imagine that the town is going to want to do some outreach to let people know this is adjusted. Um, and so I'll I usually work well with the staff that is putting this on the website and putting this out and so we can as long as their time is available for it per the town administrator, we can address it. So,

okay. Um, what else tonight? Uh, we we did a pretty good job of getting through that chart. We got through the the map. Uh, the prohibited uses. What are we gonna do about the prohibited uses? Can we briefly talk about the prohibited uses? Yes. Um, yeah. I have it on page seven or eight, but it's back behind the chart. It's like almost right after the chart. Yeah.

Um, and so with the prohibited uses, that's what your supplement is, right? I didn't want to take up space in our ordinance to say you're not allowed to have casino gambling. By the way, here's what casino gambling is. You're not allowed to have casino gambling. If you want to see if what the gambling you want to do is consider casino gambling, go look in 29043 at the definition, which isn't there yet, because that one's more complicated than the others. Um, as I was going through the prohibited uses and defining them, um, I learned something that I had missed in 2010, which is that, um, psychic reading or fortune telling, you cannot prohibit that in all zones. You can limit it to zones, but it is actually protected by uh the first amendment.

Interesting. So, um we'll need to I I would say we can put that in personal services or we can treat it separately. Um um Well, I'm not sure. You want to have them in the neighborhood. Um yeah, neighborhood uh commercial. You want to have them in the TC so we can make it under general services. Yeah. Yeah. Pro. Okay. Yeah. So the general services. That's right. That they're not in the That's right. So if that's good, I'll stick that in there. So I think that be

And the same with smoke. What about smoke and vape shops, everybody? The same thing there. We can limit them to just commercial zones as certain commercial zones as well. Um, I'm not sure that you have to allow that. Same as alcohol, smoke and vape, right? So, cannabis and smoke and vape aren't treated the same, right? Cannabis has to be allowed, but that's so weird, but okay. I thought for some reason, okay, fine.

I will double check that with the attorney, but I I believe you can still prohibit that. Um, I mean, uh, I don't know if we need to allow them at all. Yeah. Uh, I would just say hold on the smoke. I mean, what do you guys want on the smoke and vapes? You want me to, uh, they're on every corner everywhere else. So, I'm okay with prohibitive really. Um, a lot of people are changing their tattoo par regulation. Um, their tattoos. Yeah.

Yeah. And also massage parlors, right? I think I think you were prohibiting massage parlors because you wanted to prohibit adult massage probably. Yeah. Um and so I've covered that in the definition of adult entertainment and retail establishments. Probably should say adult entertainment service and retail estab establishments. Um, and then I think we could put tattoo parlors either under general services or Yeah. general services probably rather than

retail and psychics. We're going to put the Okay, fine. We got that. Entertainment. We don't have to have those, right? Commissioner, are you okay with not having them at all? Uh, oh, he wants them in his neighborhood, actually. that's expressly prohibited. Um, I will say the definitions are unique. Um, probably something you want to look at on your own and if you have concerns about, bring them specifically. Um, but you have to be very detailed. Sure.

And so it's very detailed. So landfills and junkyards, I don't think we need those. Drive-in movie theaters, we can't have, we probably, you know, don't have any room for those. Recreational camps and cottages. I think we talked about those in the RC at one time, didn't we? No, we never did. Okay. But anyway, uh what are we thinking about number 10? Uh recreational camps and cottages. I suppose there's some areas of the RC where you might allow them. Um a lot of your RC zone overlaps with flood plane. Yeah. And Right. I know. That's just not That's right. Yeah. There's probably only one place you could put them that isn't flood plane.

Now, would a nightclub be at the American Legion? Is that considered a nightclub or no? So, let's see how I have to find nightclubs. And does the rod and reel cons or Yeah. And music and stuff. Um, you can really prohibit that.

Nightclubs are a commercial establishment open to the public. The primary function of which is to offer patrons an opportunity to engage in social activities such as dancing, the enjoyment of live or pre-recorded music or the en enjoyment of entertainment provided by performers as an incidental or secondary function to the establishment may sell and serve food and alcohol or non-alcoholic beverages to its patrons. So if a restaurant is having entertainment at it, that is not a nightclub. If a establishment is having a concert and also they have a bar so that you can drink while you're there. That's a nightclub. It's it's how much space right is dedicated secondary and incidental. Um, how much space is dedicated to the service of food and alcohol versus entertainment?

Um, I don't see any reason to prohibit them in some of the commercial zones like the Well, for sure the MC, maybe even the TC. I don't know. What do you all think about that? Nice. Yeah, I think we need him. Well, bring him on. Bring him on. It's already happening in the MC. So, yeah, that's that's already the MC. Do we have that? Yeah, put that in the MC for sure. I would say except at least the which other commercial zone would it be? Well, I guess there's going to be noise and traffic associated with it. So,

you could do the the PC, but I wouldn't do any of the other res. Yeah, I'm not even sure the PC would have Let's just make it the MC and let's just not worry about it. Uh non-residential parking in a residential district. H sounds like Annapolis. Yeah. What do we want to do about that? I mean, I I can't imagine any residential district that would have enough area to allow that. And if someone's visiting, I mean, park and ride or something. Well, but if you're non-residential parking in a Well, that doesn't make any sense. I mean, if I'm coming to visit you, not that you've ever invited me, but I want to visit you,

but but I'm not but or does that mean a parking for for profit a parking lot? Parking parking for not necessarily even a parking lot for profit. If Commissioner Brown decided that he during the summer he was going to make some extra money. Oh, I like to park in his driveway. Okay, that's not permitted. Okay,

that is Yeah, that will be Sorry, you can't make money that way. Saleor rental of automobiles. Um, sale of rental of automobiles. Any rental of automobiles ideas? I don't think we have scooters these days. Yeah. Yeah. Then what if Well, are they an automobile? Well, no, they're not considered an automobile, but I mean, you don't have a restriction on bicycles, right? Or Right. Um, repair garage or body shop. What? You know, we have an old garage up here that um is now probably just storage

and a rod and reheal owns it, but it would sure be nice if that was a garage. Is it a marine? Is it a marine garage? Like is it working on boats? They're not working on anything. They're using it, I think, for storage. Used to be gas station. Gas station. They would repair sort of, but they now have closed it up. It's not. It's not a garage. But I'm just saying if it was in the NC, I wouldn't certainly wouldn't mind. I don't think it would be Well, it could be loud to people across the street like Jan. Well, remember it's not just allowing it in that one. If you allow it in the NC anywhere in the NC can be can can have that use.

Right. Right. But can we allow it in like

where would you put I guess that's the question is if you were trying to think of where in the town you could put one where would you put it we could sure use one but yeah what's suppose that that convenience store across from Horizons went out of business and maybe two places in that little plaza don't have enough parking to park the cars when they're done and stack and all that kind of stuff and that's a And then the drive-through window, I'm not sure I'm opposed to it. You know, the dry cleaners a lot of times will have the side. Yeah. I mean, the bank, we did have a request for a drive-thru, not actually a Dunkin Donuts, but like a mom and pop version of a Dunkin Donuts that I had to deny. Why did you call me up and say quickly?

I just I'm I was just following the rules. Got the drive-through windows. What zone are we talking about? These are prohibited. These uses are prohibited everywhere. What about banks drive-through windows? Is they're not they're they're Do you remember the potential location of the money? And can you get do you remember their name and phone number? Yes. They have pursued opportunities elsewhere. The drive-through windows. That's I mean the bank they're already out of, you know, no problem with drive-through windows. Do we have a problem with drive-through windows, everybody? Liquor maybe because that's okay. Maybe not liquor, but that's what Charles Townney had a lot of. We used We used to have a drive-thru of stance.

That's right. I think I I remember and booze. This foodable to the drive-through window if you want to put some kind of uh situation. You don't want to allow the booze, but you want to allow the chicken. donuts because think about was Dairy Queen. Did they have a drive-thru? That was No, but that would have that would have enhanced that business tremendously actually. Okay. So, do you have an idea about what we're doing on prohibited uses or do we do we laugh too far too hard on that one?

Um, I think that all makes sense and we're moving some stuff in to be allowed. We're addressing the things the state doesn't allow us to prohibit anymore. Um, and you all are okay with leaving those definitions in 29043 so they're not taking up space here. I think we're good there. Yes, it looks like we have really narrowed things down, but we've just moved some of it.

Wow. Yes. Um, and I assume you all went through the definitions that that were also in your um, there's changes in green. If you guys aren't color blind, you can kind of see the green there, but you look through it and it'll all look pretty good to me. Um,

so just so you're aware, cannabis and casino gambling, like my biggest sort of trying to work out is I know you don't like me to refer people back to state code. But the safest way to define those is to refer back to state code. Um,

probably agree with that. Yeah. And so I part of me wanted to have that conversation first. Part of me tried to put state code in there and then if state code changes then you're not up to date. Um I know it's it's easier when folks can just look at the definitions, but I think if you're doing cannabis or casino gambling, you're heavily regulated in the state anyway. So sending you to state code for that information isn't a huge lift. Um, so if you're okay with that, that's how I'm going to handle them. Just it everywhere or just for those two? Just for those two. Oh, sure. Just for those. Yeah.

What did we do as far as getting you on the road to getting this done, Miss Franklin? Is it pretty well completed here?

I think we're in good shape. Um, we will deal with the trickier uses and whatever the state looks like looks to be throwing at us in March. If it looks like something is going to pass, we may hold our breath and take a look at it in April after it has or hasn't passed. Um because if it if things get too crowded and they don't get it through or whatever, I hate for us to speculate too much and waste time speculating. So all righty. Um then the only last thing we have uh is comments by anybody here on the dis. Uh Commissioner Smith.

Uh I have nothing tonight. Uh ballet and bridge. Ballet and bridge. Um nothing other than uh the resiliency plan. Yes, I pretty cheer thing, right? Plan is really really important because of course it people are near flood zones or near sea level rise areas and and it really needs to be done. Um, so you know, you could you could take RV1 along the waterfront. Yeah. And deal with resiliency for RV1

instead of instead of overlaying it on other ways. But anyway, just a suggestion. Let me look at Did you say suggestion? Because that would have been fun. Let me look at how the RV1 and the well there is some that RV1 like Seagate etc. So let me let me look at how it it matches up and then um and the only section of RV1 now that's uh not along the waterfront is back here behind us. Yeah. Oh, right. That doesn't match up. So you would have higher regulations,

but uh but make them RV2. I mean, why not? What what why are they RV1 versus RV? Because of Well, they have like a mixed situation with on street and off streetet parking. I feel like back there similar to across the street on the other side.

Yeah, they have there's just some terrain, right? some elevation situations over there. You have a couple of areas that you have these ravines and these steep slopes even though they're sort of away from the bay that make things a little tricky in some of those areas. Something to think about.

Yes, I'm making a note of that. And and the other thing is to re-evaluate this area across from VA across you know and making that RV1 some of that area RV1 and then at 29th Street consider the RV2 at that area. What I'll bring you back as your next draft for the land use map for next time will be what I recommend we adopt when when it makes sense to spend the GIS money fixing it which is after the state.

So you the zoning map has to be done by geographic information systems specialist and so

I am not one. I'm not one. I can't I can't actually do that. And so we also don't seem to have a shape file for it. So it's going to be a little think we'll go to the county and see what they can help us with. Um but there may be an expense and I don't want to incur an expense twice if we don't have to. Okay. Um, I'm waiting for a motion to Oh, is there anything you would like to talk about as far as what we need to do for next month or what we want to I mean homework or whatever.

I guess I would say if you haven't necessarily read through all the uses and their conditions, please do. And if you have any concerns about anything specifically, highlight it, bring it up. If you want to shoot me an email, you can even scan in your handwritten notes and send them over to me. Um, I work with all of that. I might say, "I don't know what you said and reach out to you." But the more I can do with integrating comments and concerns between our meetings, the faster and more efficiently we can get this done and make sure that you all are using the expertise and education that you have gained from being on here to think about this

and where they could find those extra uses is um I I mean, I I have them, I guess. Does anybody else have them? They're like, we've got lot of extra uses here. So, every I don't know if if um everyone was here when I sort of explained what I did, which was I took the land use table, recategorized it, and also simplified it though,

put where it used to say four different things that all had the same conditions. I made them one thing. Um, and that makes the land use table a lot easier to read. Um, but there's a lot of information that came out of land use table. So now every single use has text associated with it. Used to be that you just had text associated with those uses that had conditions and special exceptions with conditions. But now every single use in the land use table has its own section in 2911 has a definition in 291 right with it has all of its conditions and what zones it's allowed in. Um and then so if you want to have a tourist home you can go right to this place and see what that means. Um, and that's a combination of sort of the old way of doing zoning ordinances and the newer way of doing zoning ordinance. And the more modern way is to kind of combine those two and make it really easy for people who want to do something to find it and get all their information in one place. So that's we're we're modernizing by melding the old and the new,

like a hybrid electrical vehicle. It's it's hybrid, but it's actually easier. All righty. Can I have a motion to adjurnn, please, until our next meeting? Go ahead. Do something. To adjourn. I will second. Any any issues about leaving tonight? Okay. All in favor of adjourning. Yes. And we are adjourned. Thank you very much everybody for coming. Appreciate it. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you so much. I think what they do is they

Oh, look at you remembering to put your chair down. Give it back. Thank you. See him next next time, sir. Not Not if he sees you first. That's right.