Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, that's pretty quick. It's right downstairs. I guess I'm uh nursing on the lift. So, I left the phone and she I think we're probably close enough to 6:00. I call the planning commission regular meeting to order on Wednesday, December 17th, December 25 in the city hall community room. Um, roll call Eric Smith here.

Moss here Newman Robson.

Okay. Uh approval of minutes for 19 minutes one paragraph beginning chairperson Rob that downtown district and what I'm questioning is the dates if it's res the way it's written granted to allow seasonal lights to be displayed from October 1st to November 28th. It's February. Thank you. Thank you for touching me.

All right. Anything else? Are you making a motion to approve? Make a motion. Okay. Albert makes the second. All in favor of approving the minutes. Show everyone. Moving on to public comment. This is not for public comment on items not on the community. Is there any public online that would like to speak about is not on the agenda.

He's still firing it. Nope, it's good. Or did we not record me beginning the meeting? Nope, I got you.

So, nobody's asking, right?

All right. So moving on to number 4A public hearing for case number one 123 maple black major amending construction of carports and garage. So would anybody like to speak from the public about 813 major amendments? Thanks for that. Oh, you know what I forgot to say? I opened the public meeting at 602 and I am closing the meeting at 602 because there is no public present that wants to comment. All right. Now we go to old business case number 123 maple black major amendment construction of carports and

yes for minutes. Hi, we've uh we have a major amendment that was submitted by Great Lakes Capital. Uh the purpose of the amendment, the major amendment was to install five 8 unit garages for a total of 40 spaces, one of which would be used for a maintenance vehicle and four car ports for a total of 29 parking spaces. Uh, plus they reconfigured the site plans, showing a little location for a trash compactor, recycling bin, and a reserved parking area for 12 parking spaces. And they've also included two additional outdoor pavilions. Uh, based on the code section 2547C, based on the uh the type of uses that they're including, was deemed uh be a major amendment. Uh based on the proposal review, if you look at page three of your staff reports, uh we took a look at each of the parking areas. We took a look at what the parking was per the original PUB. Then we took a look at the uh parking that's uh allocated for each of the parking locations. I determine was a cutter port, a garage, or under honey under uncovered in order to come up with whole parking area. They're required by the ordinance to provide 306 which was in the original PUB plan based on the new parking count that we've done verified by myself and by the zoning administrator. We came up with 295 uh which is 11 short but still within the purview of the planning commission to uh wave that requirement being necessary. uh the number of parking spaces per unit

would have declined from 1.5 per unit to 1.45 per unit which is not a significant decline in terms of the parking requirement. Uh we did have some conditions that we are recommending. Uh one is the extension of the fire lane which is on the attached point and I'll show it to you on the manual. Fire lane connects these goes along the fair river and connects these different parking lots. We're recommending that for the original community this this lane came back further. We're recommending that it be extended to connect with this lot. So each one of the parking lots uh will have access to this emergency fire lane uh which was reviewed by the fire marshall and by Rocky uh the director of public safety and uh they would prefer that we make that extension just so all of the parking areas have access. Uh we noticed that in the in the plans for the drives and carport they had mentioned that there was structural plans were not available. We would like those available prior to the submission of the zoning permit. So primarily we don't review the structural plans but we will we're the ones that will issue the zoning permit and the zoning permit then goes to EMTT County and they do the plan review. So the structural plans should be submitted prior to Lisa issuing zoning permit. So when zoning permit is issued, everything is available for EMTT County to do their review and issuance of the permit. Uh we

noted in plan sheet A5.1 for the 8 unit drive. Uh the exterior plan show a vertical board and batten siding. You need to specify have them specify a color. We're recommending that obviously the color match none of the colors that are used in the uh current project so it blends in. And then the last issue for the plans commission to weigh in on is the public sign which is in their packet. uh they have submitted a a sign which is a little bit larger than normal uh for a area that uh typically this would be this is this is a form of an industrial property. The signage for an industrial property was much smaller. However, this isn't a park apartment complex. Uh so they're they're asking for uh planning commission to approve their proposed uh sign which in terms of area is 131 in by 66 in. The message area is 18.85 square ft. We do have the rendering of that in your packet but that is a decision that the planning commission should make for one of the conditions. Uh they are based on the plan Doug's here Mansfield from Mansfield consultant they are proposing a series of carport forks and garages that are located around the sporadically around the site provide you know those amenities to the various apartment buildings. Uh they also are including two additional pavilions, one here, one here. They already had an existing one approved at this location

by the by the dog park and the playground and the pickle ball courts. The other additions are uh a a formal trash compactor with the heavy duty uh concrete pad and a uh recycling bin which are in this area here. This parking space next to this is for the maintenance vehicle. And then they've dotted in a reserved parking area if needed for an additional 12 parking spaces that's currently adjacent to the park. Okay. Uh the the the decision for the planning commission is there are 11 short there's 12 here but the way that we look at it we would prefer to keep these in reserve and maintain that as open space as part of the park. Okay. So the planning commission has the latitude because they don't meet the required 1.5 per unit because this is a PUD. The planning commission can uh approve the 1.45. 45 uh because they're maintaining additional open space and you know it's it's not a lot of uh change from the original PD parking is really not a big deal for project this size based on parking. Um that's it in a nutshell. So you're you're recommending that just in a grass area

at this time unless it's absolutely needed then because it's a reserve we could require them to pave it. But when Lisa and I did the site review we prefer to keep it as open space to see how it functions. Okay. Just to give the residents more open space area. So that that's the planning review. Uh uh Al had asked sent an email asking about storm because this is a uh you know we we had to review the storm as part of the PUD. Uh I the engineers looked at it Jason and Matt Miller and they said that there's not a they don't see a change impacting storm water plan and one of the reasons is because this is a uh remediated site. uh there is no retention or detention on the property. Everything is uh through a underground storm system that gets filtered before it gets u before it it's transferred to the the bare river. So they're not concerned about the uh the uh storm because basically they're replacing roof with the carport and with the garages over the impervious surface. So they're exchanging one surface for another. So they don't they don't see that as a as an issue. So that's all I have unless you have any questions. Doug is here from Mans. They're the ones that prepare the engineering on the on the plan. He's he's here if you have any question. Thank you for giving the um information.

Oh, I have no plan problem with the works. I know pvious which has been always always a big thing. My question on I have no problem also with leaving that as a a grassy space except do we hold the reserve the ability to do that in other words and I don't know how we make that condition but 11 11 parking 11 cars is not a big deal as far as a percentage of 005 you know versus 1.5 but 11 more more cars parked someplace in the area because they don't fit any longer on site could be an issue. I mean, I don't know why we could park the old cars on the stand. So, I just wonder if if we if we decide not to require them to pay the lot, is there some condition that we can come back in the future? You know, I I that's what I'm I'm concerned about.

You you can add it as a condition that, you know, subject to parking availability, correct? that the PL, you know, you can make the determination that the reserve area can be, you know, uh can be paved based on the uh uh notification from the city. Okay. I mean, that's usually how we do it. Yeah. Something like that. Would you say um the reserve parking lot um or reserve in the parking lot at the green parking lot of future Cleveland? Can you write write that? So it's

all right. I think before we get questions would you like to present everyone Mansfield Mansfield land use consultants and we're the original planners engineers on the project along with our sister company uh doing architecture. Please be back. Uh generally, just so you know, when when I get done working through the PUDS and those kind of permits, I'm pretty much out of it. So, I agree. Um with the colors, the garages, structurals, um I uh would like to reinforce um the the ability to leave the extra parking grass for now. One of the things is, you know, still this is a a conceptual plan up in here. uh it may work better when we develop this, you know, whatever we do uh to integrate something better. Right now that that extra parking lot is a little bit of a band-aid, I would call it in the design process. It fits in there, it works, but it better might be better to do something else and and achieve the same results. So, um we would like to leave that for us right now. Um, so, uh, the only other thing on that finally on the PUB plans, it shows that connecting and looping around here. Um, there's a series of emails floating around. Um, but given the holidays and uh, expediency, we haven't made a clarification. It's about a $40,000 connection with all the things we have to do with the remediation. Um, what I would suggest and and uh uh I haven't seen these emails. This is just coming about between public safety and the city and the developer and the final plans and all those things. Um, there's appearance to be a reason, but it's it's we can't prove it yet. So, what I would suggest and and I can't I can't coordinate the plans to the

emails. Okay. What I what I would ask is if it was relieved by public safety previously and and to the city satisfaction and emergency services. Um we would like to do it without it. If not, if it was inclusive of the approval and it never got out, you know, never was changed by anybody in charge of that, we we'll put it back in. But it is an expense. It does get a little bit tight between here and and this is a property line for us. not um not a what we would call a like just a when we do a line along the river the property line actually goes to the river's thread middle of it here it's actually right away so it gets kind of tight but anyways um that would be what we would like to do is just if it's if it's still in the approval conceptually uh we would like we'll put it in if it was taken out of the approval um somewhere along the final engineering and peritting plans we would like to leave it out. So that's all I can offer.

Okay. Okay. So um we may call on you for questions. That's just fine. Thanks. I know that the uh leaving it open-ended whether that road gets extended. Well, because I understand it was approved originally by planning commission to be extended. Yeah, somewhere along the line wires got crossed. So the question of the planning commission is do we maintain our original approval or do we allow an exception and public safety is asking that we retain well it might not be exactly the same as we originally approved it because I think it went even further. It went further than

y so you know extending it to the next parking lot is kind of scenic.

Yeah. If I would um excuse me uh if you look behind these uh north to south building well I guess it's on an angle but um the buildings that run parallel long ways to uh Sheridan. You can fight fire to these guys right here. But this you don't really need that fire lane right there because you can access the building all the way around it. especially with a hose. So, I feel that it's not necessary and I would prefer to see it as green space because there's so much impervious parking on this site already and pathway. I don't think it's necessary, but

how does the this path connects with um the big trim? I think what it's called. No, the green North Country. North. Yeah. Uh I think it's on the other side of the on the other side. Yeah. Oh, so it so it only crack it doesn't really connect on that property. The railroad track is here. Got it. Yeah. Got it. Okay. But the our path is over there. Yeah. So that has something to do, right?

Well, eventually that railway will be continuing. Then we already have an easement here. for pedestrian, right? That was part of the original PUB. I I think we should be further public safety. Public safety was needed. They're the ones that have provided it. know that's that's I mean I I I understand it's an expense and you know if public safety has I think you said that public safety added it went further north it went even further across so they they just didn't the way they explained it to me they they didn't want to lose the 360 value

of being accessed all around each of the buildings. So in terms of the conditions where I have number one paid the reserve parking lot, I would just say if determined uh uh by the city at any time in the future at any time in the future. Well, I thought you said the fire chiefs that he wanted. No, he's talking now. He's just talking about crazy.

I think the other issue, the other ones were just kind of housekeeping in terms of color and things along that way. I think the one that the PC really needs to weigh in on is the sun. Well, Okay. Extend I would recommend it. Yeah. And I see that as being like a great spot for, you know, tenants to like kids ride their bikes back and forth and actually connect next to the playground along the river there. So I think it would be of benefit to the res there.

I would agree. Tie it ties that whole property loop from end to end, right? More than more than the public safety, right? And it but it also gets the kids off of the parking lots to get from one end to the other. Is that impervious or pvious? Is it gravel? It's asphalt. It's 10. Go ahead. Sorry.

I don't want to be responsible for it. You don't sh this building burn. But um if you look at the dimension from the face of the I the east side of the building to the rightway, it's 25 ft. And then the building width is 67. So, it's essentially the same if there were a park fire truck there, but the connection is nice extending the path. I just um the site is so paved, but it theore of it dissipates the grease phase. I don't know. Well, I think the the when we did the original PPD, when we looked at it, the we we we we designated as a fire lane, but it was also put in primarily as a shared pathway for the interior of the development. Okay.

So, people could walk without having to walk through the parking lots uh and and it was along the river uh which we thought was a benefit and amenity as well. So, it it kind of has a multi-purpose. The reason for the 10 foot is pathway we can also it'll also handle a fire truck whatever for emergency vehicle and it looks like there's a concrete sidewalk that could be eliminated if that path were extended. Yes. Or flip flip that around the width of the sidewalk and would pave or concrete and not add

another path. So there would still be use existing connection. Well, I get to the question is access but but again the sidewalk will only have the access from the bathroom. Right. Okay. But if there was

Yes. So there's another future form and that is as the the greenways extended down to the railroad bridge about us there's a future potential and opportunity to connect the ce from the original approval we showed that as like a six foot wide sidewalk on there through that final sixt and put okay what I just want to clarify it'll be would not follow what was done previously um we would not have a separate sidewalk and the path

so and we will work that out like we do similarly at the ends of it where it doesn't go through the parking lot

all right um Yes. I was wondering uh where the proposed garages are uh on the interior uh is the sidewalk continue behind them or is that only something about where you're talking from? of the uh the proposed let's see there's eight cards where there's goes along the interior they uh kind of the north mid north

parking area well one the six are on one of them um I got my code if you want to look at this whole ride was in agreement Yeah, there's there's three proposed garage this on the north end. You kind of place and it looked like at one point there were sidewalk along the back side of those. Are those eliminated now or what?

I think that's just a space. It looks like the sidewalk goes diagonally between those two garage ends to connect to the commercial because none of the others have five blocks behind them. I think the garage is would be like the carro ston. That is correct. That's actually a buffer between the commercial parking lot and those two garage. Yeah. So it's correct that those are sidewalks behind most correct. That is that's just so it's like a curve.

But the sidewalk is this diagonal connection to So you can walk behind um there's some kind of a walkway. No, it'll just be space that might be planted or Well, how do you landscaped?

Okay. So there's no access between them. There is an access that comes off that where they come to a corner. You'll see the two sidewalks forming a wire at that that radius and there's a sidewalk that goes into the into the commercial area. Okay. But there's no sidewalk that passes through the commercial area to the playground for example through the sidewalk here. It goes all the way through to here. But then does it Then how do you get from there for the playground for example?

No, I don't think the intent was to carry this traffic at least through and maybe that comes out the final design with your site plan interview. But right now the the walkway comes up through here um down here. There's a crosswalk here. There's another M here into this area. So that and then there's the the connections here. Okay. So there wasn't a con there was not a connection with that. So there wouldn't be an easy way to walk into the proposed commercial use area. Well, this is this is all barrier free pre- ramps sidewalk. There's a little plaza that comes out against that right here. So there's a full connection going in between there.

But then you Okay. But then you're walking. Oh, okay. Yeah. And then that there's sidewalk all around this building and through this parking area. Good. A question for co is will the uh garages and or carport spaces be assigned with specific units? They would be they would be an amenity purchase definitely or No,

they're not assigned to a specific unit. They're assigned to a specific tent. Right. Right. Or additional charge. Yes. While you're out there, um could you point out where the dumpster locations are? Um all the new This is the uh the dumpster. Um this is the recycling area here. There's also another area just for storage that doesn't it needs to be secured. So all that is right here. So what's labeled as proposed maintenance area that's the compactor? Yes. This entire area is kind of that maintenance area. So

Okay, that's what you're defining that as Okay. Again, why they're out there and thank you for your patience. Um there's more and more chargeable cars, e cars. Mhm. What are you planning for your um car garages or electric cars? I know that discussion is going on. I don't know what the conclusion is. So, it's a good thing to catch up on. So, I would suggest it with more and more cars.

Yeah. They don't like the extension boards out the window by 24 vol 220. I can make that clarification back to staff and they have to meet our requirements now or we have requirements. I would just propose that that be taken into account as we move forward on this. Is that a conditional? No, it doesn't have to be. I mean, they can come back. That would be actually like a minor a minor meta major amendment putting in these stations.

But what triggers the uh paying attention to these stations? Well, they have they have to meet the zone. They have to meet the zone. Charlie.

Yeah. Um I really favor the idea of some enclosed parking, some shelter parking. I have from the very beginning when we first we were first approached on this unfortunately didn't work out underneath units because of cost and elevators and all that stuff but I do have a problem driving around along Stish Avenue and seeing this going to be you're not seeing the landscaping plan the landscaping plan I don't care

well I it's not open I don't see the building I mean I see the building above of the garage, but I see a long white or beige wall, whatever the case might be. And I think that's a shame. If there were other locations, I post the search for those two those two structures, I'd supported entirely, but I do have a problem with the location of those two. If you I went on the site and there's quite a bit of a the garage where the where the place is now. So there's a decent setback from you've got a greenway, a sixoot sidewalk and then a space with trees.

We have a greenway, a 10ft sidewalk and a it's actually six. It'll be six. It's going to be six. It's been it's going to have to be an amendment because in the original PZ it was a 10 foot wide side but is been discussed already. Well, it be discussed. No, it was

but it wasn't the plan has approved at 10. It's shown here as 10 outside the northernmost country. The only reason to make a tent with it connects to the bicycle path which doesn't eventually that that neighborhood there will be 10. We try to build these incremental where we get shown to be 10 ft. But in reality, it's it's no laid out at six foot.

It it it was approved as a 10-ft shared pathway enriching PD is concrete concrete. No, that blue beam it says six foot. Is that already in place? asking down that way. Well, that might be the old sidewalk. On this diagram,

on this diagram, it says proposed 10 foot concrete path to city by the city already. All right. Okay. So, what? So it is establish it's not if I could say something real quick. It's not going to be 10.

Staff has reviewed it. It doesn't make any sense to have a 10-ft path there that that's going to neck down on either end. We've reviewed it. We've whether we need to come back formally or not. But um it's designed to be six. It's graded for six. It's not poured yet, but that's what the plan is. which is which would comply with what's existing now which is wider than what's existing now. Yeah. Um I think it was considered internally the way I heard it as a minor amendment. So it was done at that staff or so we have more green space.

Yeah. Yeah. Right in front of the big old white wall. Todd, are you comfortable with that being a minor staff review? I I am, but I'll just say for the record that it's it's disappointing that it's going from 10 to six. We have.

I mean, it it just is. Message aid I could live with because that's the little Travis school with the intent was was to try to make a pathway down there to connect the neighborhood eventually with the easement that would go that we would eventually put a pedestrian bridge over to the river bend which then would connect with the extended greenway that comes down from the downtown. we'd start creating a an overall home. But, you know, 6 feet is a normal size that you would see in the neighborhood. 8t is a minimum for shared. 10 is preferable by by the uh uh it's the Federal Highway Administration for shared pathway. The minimum now is 10 ft. But, you know, if if the if city administration staff uh wants six, not much I can do about it. But I think I think it's a mistake.

We had this conversation, John. We we talked about this. So, I'm not sure if you're just forget the conversation or what, but we had a conversation. I said that it was 10 and it had to be changed in the plans and it shows up on the plan year is 10. I plan here six. Doug just pointed out on the plan here it says 10 yours is six. So this says 10. Well, it says 10, but it's drawn as

the other one is allowance for you know space actually you and your wife walking that back a lot and um pass very comfortable for walking the the the the current pathway from Lake Street up to Sheron um until you see a bicycle and that's where the shared pathway this is going to connect everything eventually and is it I know there's expense but nothing's getting cheaper at all for anything we're going to do and it's if it's already started grading if it's already start is doesn't make it more cost effective in the long run than to if we if it becomes part of a a wheelway that needs 10 ft adding four in the future versus follow the plan that we have now. I'd rather follow the 10 plans that we have that was originally proposed and was originally on the PD. I wasn't here with I was on planation this was approved. I'd like I like the idea of a nice wide pathway because that is going to have a lot of bicycle use all the way up to college eventually, you know, and not coming down from the top. So, I I like the idea of John's original PB where it had the 10 foot. I mean, I can live with gate because that's the size that we have along the wheelway through town. We have 8 ft wide, which with walking on a bicycle, it's it's comfortable. Uh but eight or 10. No,

that's eight from from Lake Street up to Charity State or is that around like from city hall back there through the Watford Riverfront all the way down to Lake Engles and uh you know the up to the pathway from the Bay River Bridge, the Mitchell Street Bridge all the way up to Sher. I walked that other day. I said, "Oh, the Bear River." Yep. That's 10.

That's 10. Yeah. Yeah. And that and when we have bikes on there, you need all 10 full speed and especially with the more ebikes. We're going to be doing a connection. I think when we had the internal conversation, I you know, may have missed it, but I said 10 and then it was six and I said I could, you know, it's not up to me, but I'm looking at it as a plan. I said, "Well, what about keeping it at least eight like we have with the wheel length concrete because that gets walkers, bikers, skateboarders on it, and it seems to function. 10 is now the preferred standard. That's Bear Creek. Six, in my opinion, is it's getting rather tight. That's that's my opinion. It becomes more of a neighborhood sidewalk than a a development or a a recreational sidewalk. I agree 100%.

Can this be resolved?

We got plans that have 10 ft on now we have a plan. We have a note on plan that says it's 10 public. Uh we got to have some clarity as to what we're going to do. Mr. Mansfield. So, the fire lane path um is noted as 10 foot wide in addition to having a twoft uh shoulder on each side. Shoulder. Yeah.

Is it So, when I blue beam it, it's scaled at six foot with two foot on side. So it's is it possible that the engineer just fixed it with a no and you're looking at this one? Yeah. Didn't bring a scale with me. But this I mean these are 9 foot spaces. So I checked your movie. Yeah, it's scaling because I mean these are spaces. as wider than wide as their apartments, right? Well, you think I think they just didn't change the maybe would you say scaling is six? It's scale. Yeah.

Measure their scale, right? Measure a parking space to see if that scales nine. I I I calibrated it. So, 67 ft. Hold on. Let me calibrate. Well, I think visually it certainly looks like it's Well, it does. It does say path and fire lane 10 foot wide ashalt path with two foot wide gravel shoulder each side. That's what it says.

We're talking about this side. Well, I found that I hear about 10 foot there says 10 foot. I could be wrong. I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I'm teaching. So I guess it says 11. This says 10. What's the scaling right here? That sidewalk is scaling at 10 ft. So I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Which one? The one, but it says by. So if you decided that

it's 6 foot, then it's on the city regardless to pave that. That's not at the bottom. No, it's in the ement. They already provide They should have already I think they provided an ement. Yeah, we already did a We already did the ement for because the idea, Max, was that the city sidewalk was being removed. Mhm. And there the new sidewalks was going on their property on the eastment in order to provide some larger space between the street and the walkway which was going to which was going to have street trees.

Okay. So we were that that gets to what Cynthia was saying about the place with the garages. The garages are obviously set back you know from the street because you have you had the you have the city right away then you have the easement and then you have the garage. So we scale from the edge of the drive edge of standish to the back of the garage. Let's see if it's accurate. Well, I use this on a professional level, so it's about 46 45 ft. Well, hold on.

Sidewalk. No. Yeah, it can't be. Hold on. It's 25 ft from the right away to the garage because a civil drive. I'm sorry. It picks up layers. Oh, really? Too. 13 or 14. Well, I'm sorry. This is a program thing because civil drawings when you upload them into AutoCAD and that's plot them out, it'll hit a corner of like the top of a building or different grades, too. So, right now a road right away, which is about 10 or 12 feet off the back of the curb,

you're another 25 ft. So, you're almost 40t from from basically the Stanish Avenue. No, the from the back face the curb. Okay. Okay. Face the curb to the to the garage to the garage. Yeah. Yeah. And then between the face of the curb and the walkway are street. Right. Right. And then between the walkway and the garage is a landscaping screening. Correct.

That screens all doesn't screen all of the garage, but the landscaping plan is pretty comprehensive. I mean to to some extent as I we're doing these graduates more and more um you would be looking at headlights and cars if you weren't looking at at a blank wall. So I have ones where we have to do a fence a privacy fence along that thing. So you're creating that wall again to but to the other thing is um I would hate to lose the garages but maybe there's an architectural detail that we can use to break up that to to some extent in the siding but I mean two weeks ago when I was up here we were com combating or how to mitigate headlights coming out and pointing across here you know which I believe we meet every ordinance if you were to use this for any other use. You could have parking right where we're showing it and you could have garages. So I always compare a PUB to a use by right um with practical and reasonable request. Right. So um but to take that long wall and break it up with some architectural details might be um might be way to look at it.

Also you have trees between sidewalks of your garage. Yeah. So they have breaks because of the landscaping plus rather detailed landscaping they're doing. Well hopefully there's

yes and shrubs. So in our ordinance uh page that has well anyway you have a page of you have to have some kind of vertical break articulation. Yeah. 25 dunning stuff,

right? I mean, if you look across the way that has the same over the buildings have many garages, you know, across the street from this, there are garages that line up, but the difference is they have doors. So, there's architectural ele elements that break up that wall. Architectural those elements across the street, it's industrially that be moved eventually. Right. But

well, relative to architectural elements, one of the concerns I had in thinking about these proposed garages is, you know, they're kind of accessory buildings to the main structures. And I can see what the architect did with design in terms of their design. I did give them that little lettered roof angle match the bigger building. But my thinking is, you know, like the carports, it's just kind of a little bit shed roof and you want to just kind of make them disappear. You kind of speaking to Charlie's thought about them being intrusive. In my mind, the garages should be like the carports. Do away with those fancy architectural details on the roof and just put a really low pitched shed roof just like the cutboard, which would take the height of them down a little bit. And then the back of all of the garages would be longer. That didn't look like a building. And it would allow more of the apartment buildings to be visible above the garages. And that would be I believe it would be a cost savings too. Wouldn't be framing the garage roofs in the same in the same way. Now maybe the cost of of the roofing itself if they had be had to be a metal roof instead of shis that's a little more expensive but

do these garages by their very nature have to have any fire suppression or anything else? No. I thought you did have fire wall. They're underneath the sides where we have to have fire walls and suppression and running there was one hour fire. It's one hour fire rate separation between each unit. No, every every few looks like every two or three

but one is basically a 2x4 wall with fire on the other side. Oh, okay. So, but I think trying to make the garages look more minimal than maximal with with the fancy details would be better in my opinion. I think from my perspective, the garages and the truck ports within the development I'm okay with. The ones that I have the issue with as far as visibility and that are the three located.

Yeah, that need that even if it works. Um, would it be possible to relocate some of those in more into the interior parking spaces closer to the proposed clubhouse building or there's nothing along there, but then they're crammed right in front of the building itself, right? parking lot parking lot, you know, by the clubhouse instead of really opportunity space. Well, they got two 36 buildings plus the pool.

You have to remember we have fire departments, you know, on accessing the base of those buildings, right? I mean, honestly, when I look at the those garages along the standish, I would rather look at those than parking lot. Yes, I have a carrier. I guess I agree. I'm used to being a field with

I guess it could be made to blend in with the existing structures with a slightly different So of our of our apartments, how many are and now we have it someplace to I think about how many are low income of the I know

half of them half of them are 80 to 120. So half the people are by paying low rent and are not going to be able to most likely afford that for the carport and or I just that may not be 100% valid assumption but do we have too many garages considering clientele um you know if if you So half of our parking required parties around 50 parking spaces would probably be occupied.

Where my developer at? Yeah. If I can convert parking spaces into revenue generators, that's a good idea. I bet they still Oh, yeah. I do too. Yeah. Even even people in this in in that 80 to 120 may choose to bite the bullet now. the extra storage space, whatever the case, right? You thought about where you're going with this, too. Yeah. But at the same time, I look at the quantity of parking spaces compared overall. Well, uncover two. I was just trying to fix my words.

Well, I agree with you. You know, you question like, do they really need this and quantity of them? But we are eliminating asphalt. We're making the parking space.

Either way, we're getting water as you. Um, so the only concern I have about this is so you've got a 15t green belt on the face of the parking structure, the 10 foot sidewalk, then you've got another 15 foot. I like the idea of storing all your crap stuff, excuse me, um, in the garage, but then you can't really plant any foliage, any large growth trees in that 15t green belt from the base of the garage to the to the sidewalk. Well, the big trees will be in the lawn extension toward there.

It would be shrubbery type stuff between sidewalks and garages. Well, there are the trees that are between the garage and the sidewalk. There are already trees there. Mhm. In the garage in the sidewalk right now. Yeah. In the grassy area that just got planted.

Yeah. The dogwood, sumac, sugar maples, white pines. Um, all right. So, I think we're agreed on the add the path, you know, extend the fire lane to that parking lot. Um, are we agreed that this is what do we want to do about the sidewalk that is time to put on this plan, but the city staff made the determination and you say a compromise would be where does the go?

I like the compromise. What's the There's room for a lot of What about getting into the 10 ft so that in the long term everything lines up? Well, I just think we're I think that's overkill. at the gate, but especially that it's given the existing he or the original walkway pathway and that seemed to work fine for years. All right. So, 8 side.

All right. You do that guy because I'm I'm at six feet. I'm support the city's decision. Okay. So, What about the rail trail that's right behind this the the railroad tracks? I mean that will be and it will eventually connect to the fire access road. I mean that kind of you know shall come in the next 10 years. U 15 these people playing that's what planning is for. Yeah. So your your argument is go to the 10 ft.

My argument is that there's going to be a sidewalk coming in behind the complex. So I think that will serve as the in lie of the 10 foot that we're putting out in front that we could in turn use as a green barrier. Mhm. Won't that always have to be there because it's on the main road the sidewalk there? Well, the other part is the other part is the interior the fire lane slash shared pathway. is for private residence only. It's not a public vehicle. No, Max is talking about the proposed one on the west side of the plan. Yeah. The abandoned railway across on the river.

No, no, there's the abandoned railway from the bridge. It'll eventually become the green. Mhm. On the other side. No, the other side of the river is an extension of the river trail. Not the greenway. The greenway will extend down the existing river. There's a sidewalk there that's part of Riverbend Park right now. Yes. Which is this right here. Correct. That's it. Yeah. But it it is not it is not developed all the way on the other side. It's path most of its wall. It's future opportunity. All right. So

I would hope that all managed to be employed as a compromise. Okay. How many people want eight? I need a point of clarification before you take the vote. Shame. This sidewalk is the city's responsibility to put is it not? Yeah. So this is this is a request that the city change it from 6T 8. It's not all. No, that's not correct. Well, that's what I just asked.

And the PUB that was approved, the sidewalk is supposed to be the developer responsibility, and they're providing an easement so the public can use it because we're removing the city sidewalk, building a wider sidewalk, a shared pathway, which is in an easement that they've already provided to the city and the developer as part of the project was supposed to build. a brownfield manner in here that the city made, you know, um when you do a brown field, there's city positions and and desires that they come out of. I mean, we got benches, proposed bench by city on that. We got so I I'd have to look at that. But it says proposed bad

it's ours. Yeah, it's yours. Mhm. Even we gave it to them. But that that sidewalk Yeah. And the benches and certain callouts was speed, right? Gave an easement for a certain Yeah. Yeah. I don't recall the how much of the e sits right on there. Looks like

Okay. those 10. Sorry, I interrupted your stop. That's just some more information. Oh, all right. So, 8. Has it been bad? Has it been Has it been bad? Yeah. It's been graded. I don't think they've poured anything yet. The weather came in and we really don't want a porn sidewalk right now anyway. Not even sure it's spring. I don't think it's No, no, they did some grading

for the open house or the groundbreaking or not groundbreaking for increasing the size of this. Sorry, I compromise. Yes. Well, by this majority though Um, if it's the commission's will, let's change it to even will this go before the city council or does it just

No. Okay. Just for clarity because obviously there difference interpretation since I was the plan reviewer. Uh, we're going to go with 8 ft side walkalong standish. Now I just need to ask the question whose responsibility is it to build the developer or the city cities. Okay. What's in the city? But I don't know but that was my understanding the city. Yeah.

We're going to take the ex extra parking area and uh move that grass but keep it open to being paid in the future. The city requests such now regarding number four which is the garage which and the carport I'm really more concerned about the garages regarding Rick's discussion about changing the architectural appearance of them. Is that something that you want to consider or not until the grass?

I don't know what it looks like honestly. I listen to this description that wasn't there was there to me. But in combination with a lower profile and some plantings I could be persuaded, but I still don't like it. It would look It would look just like a carport but with siding around it and doors on I I carports are pretty primitive. I don't know if it's classier the two trying to make it disappear visually. I understand you're gonna have cardboard in the middle there too close in the middle. But I saw

I like the architecture build. I'm not a huge fan of things. Okay. All right. So, garages, what's the consensus? Keep the rosary safe. I guess now we have to do the project. Oh, wait. Did you do the carports? So, what happened? I heard I heard you just do the ground instead of doing the buttons.

I don't think so. Everybody like the carports? I don't see that there is a lot to coordinate with four or six or whatever pylons or the only thing I would ask Doug you on your plan sheet when you edit the experienc and the ropes will match. It'll be the same problem.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what that is. Um I don't first I can't remember what those rules are. What did you say? I was just clarifying that I didn't this is the majority just I I would like the architecture that's shine is what's pulled out you just saying match the color of match the color so that you know it's not changing things up

no lavender not sure where that came Oh, as far as the architecture of ours themselves, I would if we're going to say they look fine. I might recommend the the carport that's between the two. All the other cars in the interior, so you're not it is kind of broken up.

Well, and I think I I was going to ask Um where the transport is on the side it looks like community park spaces open spaces between the field car and eliminate that car. Yeah. Well, that's for not eliminating that, but manage and then left out color scheme that will break up all spots. What did you say?

Two spots if you turn that into a garage. four garage.

Oh, no. Because there fewer spaces for garage. Got it. Right. Would you get more spaces if you if you got rid of that particular The carport really just fits over the existing spaces. The garagees require a little bit more space. I mean to equally lay these out in the site plan, I feel like carport on the 18 lot move up to the 16 by the 14 limit to two and that

I would agree. I don't quite understand. the resol numbers at 18 recommend they move it to next to between 14 and 16

and they do that fire in front of the building. But then it will be either south two in the bottom two in the middle of each basic sense that I was so worried about having so many carports right next to each other and if nobody wants them then where they I mean they could put a couple of direct

there from 18 to 15. Then each building has a option.

What do that do?

Okay. And so the headlights from the open parking spaces will not inter well there's there's you know there's commercial across the streets but there is some landscaping that would be along those parking spaces to kind of break it up but you're saying move carport from 18 to 15 based on Doug doesn't probably have this matter I think I know where you're at. I would like to suggest that the developer could look and see if 15 is temptation 16. Give them the open. Sure. Give them a choice.

Get it out of there. Right. 15 or 30. 15. Just put it over here. So move 18 to 15 or 16. Okay. Got that as a right. Um so have we covered Thank you.

All right. Well, thanks.

Local driveway. All right. 15 signings. Okay. Yeah. One is for this res. This one up here is potential for the future promotion, right? And that would quickly mention those or they haven't proposed anything specific yet because that's when they

all right. Um so they they're looking at where the if you went past the property where the sign is the construction sign that says we're building that's where that sign is going to go. And will that be perpendicular?

Yeah. Um I tell you in looking at size uh from the side committee we are very conscious of size and pretty sensitive to it. Um and when we decide size one of the factors is the speed limit of the street and this is 25 miles now. So the slower the speed, the less you have you you need in the structure. And I think this is pretty excessive. Um because that rather than I'm not sure of what Lisa's uh interpretation was, but um it requires the residential size which is called square feet. um we can as the sign committee and as planning commission say okay you can go 25% big so I would see the uh reason for allowing it more than 12 square ft now I I love to see 12 square feet out there and see if it if it works that size but because it's such a large uh complex It makes sense to me that the 25% would be reasonable to increase the size.

Also, because it's a PED, we can do whatever we want. So, you're you're recommending that but you know those guidelines are good guidelines, right? But we can do whatever we want. So yeah, but if you apply the standard 25%, you're going from 12 12 square feet to 18, which is kind of like in the middle between 12 and the 18. It'd be like a 16 16 one quarter tall. I think it was three.

Yeah. 15. So this is quite a big structure and I don't quite understand uh what your drawing is like. You show what look like they might be columns. No, those are the end views. But those are just the end views. Right. This this side of the sign would look like that. This side would look like Okay. So this the side view of the side will have the lumber. Yeah. And the side interior to the development is worth. So

if the applicant felt strongly then I think that it would behoove us to request a mockup to show the size in that space. But I think if we did the 25% because it's 25 miles an hour that should be more than adequate unless it's in terms of signage is generally better even though people who want it they can never be big enough. So if you 25%

if you reduce the message area by 25% down to 15 and you reduce the 131 by 25%. That would go to 120 in and the 66 would go down to 50. So basically you're kind of shrinking everything 25%. So So proportionally that would look the same. It would look the same. It just wouldn't be as wide and as tall and as tall. But how how did did Lisa measure this? Yeah, Lisa. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Okay. Because there's some sign area and then we have rules. I brought up this thing. um you know when the base is part of the structure then that also gets included as part of and here the the distance the 6 and 6 in is from the bottom at the base all the way to the top of this. So if you do the 25% reduction you're basically reducing message area length and width by 25%. So basically this just gets shrunk down. That's one way of looking at the message. Yeah, but I'm saying the message area is about 84 by 30.

Yeah, but if the message area, you don't want to keep the superructure. I'm saying you want to Well, and you the super structure is part of the

Yeah, you you got to have it more than what you would normally have it because this is a large apartment complex. Like when Lisa and I were talking about it, the 12 square The 12 square feet for an apartment are for the some of the existing small apartment complexes that we have inside the neighborhoods which maybe have six or eight units. This has got almost 300 280 some. So it it does warrant a larger sign in terms of the the size of the of the overall development. So, and I think this sign size is about the same sign size as we approved on the wall. If you put the two signs together by the entrance there, it's

the law is a sign of law. Yes, I understand. It's not a monument sign, but the the sign the message area is about the same. Yeah. Okay. So, would that be agreeable to the commission to go that route? which runs doing the choice what we're allowed to do extend at 25%. Absolutely. I I'm okay with this size. Yeah, this sign is actually uh my total is around 50. U see here the whole monument you mean? Yeah, the whole monument is

it's uh about 50 square feet. I mean we're talking that's the whole this is you know you take the 131 and the 66 it's around you know given the scale of the development I think it's not it's not inappropriate that's but I understand but I understand's point of view that she wants to bring it down but be consistent sign

right and again there's factors and one of the big ones is the speed because we want people to be able to see the sign in enough time to be able terms they need to make. But you want to control largeness because it adds to clutter and also confusion. If they're all if we if we allow this bigger than that then then there's going to be this competition for an exception. Yeah. So I feel comfortable doing the 25%. I think it'll be more than adequate and um and then we're protecting uh precedence for other signs come up.

My thought my thought is if it's going to be shrunk, let it be shrunk vertically. You know, the way it's laid out here, there's a lot of white space above the message area and below the message area. And you can't really change the proportion lengthwise all that much. I mean, I guess the brick could a little smaller. What I would do mostly is shrink the height of it by eliminating part of the white space above the message and below the message. When you say the one and and I I'm afraid this we get assigned we've got about 18 in two feet from the finish grade to the base and with our snow and things like that. Yes.

So if you want to set a dimension an area what I'd like to do is submit something back that follows that. Well, I think what 15 square feet is the dimension for the messenger for the messenger. So, if you reduce all of the dimensions by 25%, you're currently at just shy 19, right? Yeah. Right. Right. And Lisa would need to review and make sure that we're following the monument piece of this. So, if I could ask, is this going to be lit? Very good question. There is no So, how is it going to be lit?

Underneath the frame.

Underneath the wood frame. Underneath the black. Oh, the black frame. Is it is the sign set in so that it I don't know how the there's a black thing and then that mass and then the letter right so you're show your that all has to be approved by Lisa the lighting and everything the down lighting and all that okay so it can't be back lit white no the whole panel so number five would be basically reduce the dimensions for the message area and the sign structure by 20 just not to exceed like 15 square feet

on the message on the message area because that's what well yeah that that's the message that's the reason we have to talk about the other dimension what is that so now the serious thank you the how what percentage of reducing that? Well, the 133 or the 131 would go down to 120 and the 66 in would go down to 50. That's that that's the one

the 50. But is it just the message or we talking about overall height? The overall height, but to the bottom of the white flame. Yes. To address your concerns. So, and that's why I guess I'm saying we need to do new mod. Yeah, you have to do a new model. Okay. All right. Oh, shall we say that it can be approved by the um by staff? Yeah. by his own administr.

He mentioned snow at some point in time. I thought we were going to get a snow storage. Has that been handled? They had snow storage areas and in the original PD they got small storage area. I thought it was here. It's not as staff there. All right. Uh it's a triangle. Increase the dimensions by 25% with down lighting. Uh and reduce the dimensions by 25% and the message areas down to 15 square feet on. Okay. And then uh

with down lighting water with the revised sign to be approved by the zoning administrator.

Sorry to interrupt but there is no storage. Okay. That's what they they just said. I had both S's are all right. Many are exceptional.

Number one, it's paid to reserve parking lot if need be by the city, determined by the city. Number two, extend the fire lane to the northernmost parking lot. Number three, the structural plans for the garage and carports shall be completed prior to submission of the zoning permit. Number four is the color scheme for the garage shadow match. One of the colors of the apartment building and the roof the asphalt singles for the roof the same color as the apartments. Number five is the pardon me the not the garage but the cars. Oh, go ahead. I have that.

Oh, okay. Okay. I thought number five is uh the project sign will be reduced by 25% with the message area at 15 square ft with down lighting to be approved by the zoning administrator. Six, the sidewalk along standish shall be 8 ft and width uh to be built by the city. Number seven, move carport from number 18 to either number 15 or 16. That's it. Next, somebody prepared to make a motion.

Well, you like to read it.

I would like you both. Based on the documentation submitted by the applicant, the public record in recognition of the subject properties identified as a buyer development uh site in liables master plan. I make the motion to recommend approval of the major amendment to case number one-3 for property located at 14 Spanish Avenue property ID 521907 2000-12 to include carports pavilions and um reserve parking areas trash compactor and recycle bin uh plan C.40 for all with the following conditions. Pay the re uh reserve parking flag at the if this if this uh city um requires in the future determined by

return. Okay. Or we can can I just say for John's comments? Well, I think we need to say it aloud so we all know extend the fire lanes to the northernmost parking lot. The structural plans for the garage and carports port should be completed. Prior to submission of zoning permit, the color scheme for the garages should match shall match. It says should shall match one of the colors of apartment buildings and plan A 5.18 unit garage exterior plans exterior plan. Those did not specify a color. Okay. But we also want to include the roofs. And the roof the roof's color have to match.

Well, not just the color, the the roof material. The roof material and color match the uh roofs on the existing part.

Um approve the project sign not to exceed uh 15 square ft of the message area and reduce the overall sign area by 25%. Well, the monument area and then finally um the um carports move them the carport at area 8 18 to either 16 or 15 um for the discretion of development.

Right. And for the sign um they're going to provide uh APA will provide a new mockup and the downloading down lighting will be included and then on the sign the down lighting and we will put the pulsum that shows both both the down lighting and the sign and finally the sidewalk which will be approved by facility administrator which will be approved by finally the uh sidewalks um in the city right away and easement easement and city easement will be able to paid for by people.

Okay, good. I have a second. Who made the motion? And well, you know, I think Bob raised his hand really quick. Bob um made the second discussion. No, we just have a question. Um and you may know this I don't know if you do or not but if a tenant first of all only tenants can lease the garage right second of all if tenant leases the garage does that mean are there any limitations on what how many cars how many automobiles tenants make not that I am aware of

so most do could is it potential that they could lease these as storage I that I don't believe there's any that attracts from that. So, well, that's that's a different use. Do you want to say anything about use in this? Because you're you're decreasing your number of parking spaces if they use it as a self storage. We can modify the garage. Well, somewhere I read people can use it for storage too, but they can't use it for self storage and then not parks or automobile. Yeah. In an open space that that just doesn't work.

Well, then add uh let's see here. Add a eighth musician bed. The garages that is that nine. Well, I got I'll just believe you. I had eight for carports. 15. Yeah. Combine. Get combined. I give up. How about garage? Shall that be used solely for storage? So for storage?

Well, somewhere I mean it is a parking space. as you think before well they mentioned somewhere I can't find it that they would u they would not be used for businesses they could couldn't work out of it to the point of Charlie though these do count as parking parking spaces so they need to be used as parking space they pack extra things in that it's not but it needs to be a parking space it's also not in the interest of the owner. Whatever we do, there really should be a lease a lease requirement.

Well, if it is, that's when we pull the trigger on the reserve party, right? Okay. All right. So, how

crumb? Yes. Meridian, yes. Moss, yes. Newman, yes. Robson, yes. Smith, yes. Wilma, no. Yes. Passes. Thanks for so much for our commitment. Good discussions. Appreciate.

Thank you. Thanks. Okay. He gets to do it all the time. Moving on. All right. So, schedule a public area common major amendment conversions a former building to a U-Haul storage facility and inclusion of course. Yeah, they all right. So, we're not really here to discuss this tonight. Just to decide whe to schedule next available later January 21st. I move we schedule a public hearing and request new comments to be made to amendment for the next meeting on January 21st.

Makes a motion. Rich second. All in favor any opposite.

Yeah, but aren't you? They deserve the right you guys are giving. That's great. Yeah. Who will it deserves to hear? Right. There you go. All right. And Rick and Rich made the motion. Correct. Yeah. Rich motion or

Yes. zone zoning update a discussion for potential January Saturday morning special. How many people want to do a Saturday morning? Absolutely not. Okay. Well, we got to have a meeting and and we need to have a meeting that's outside of a regular meeting. So,

but can't we have a special meeting? do it at our regular like I'd rather have a 6 on weekday rather Saturdays are too. So our calendars so our regular meetings January 21st So what's your schedule like?

Do it either if you want to keep it on Wednesday to do it in 14th or the 28th. And how long were you planning on this meeting? Couple hours. Couple hours. So two hours. That's why I wanted to get it away from a regular meeting because we always have other business. Let's go 14th and get to it sooner than later. Okay. 14th. No, no. Yeah, I won't I don't be a Wednesday. Yeah. 28. Any Wednesday night? Oh, any any Wednesday? Really?

I know it's a conflict, but something I don't know. Oh, well. All right. Thank you, sir. Great. So, no Wednesday evening. How about the 29th? On the 15th, 29th. That's great. 29th. Sure. You're not here. 29th. This is your This is my can make it happen. Thursday, can we make it happen on 20th birthday? Everybody else

6 at 6 p.m. tips at 8. So this is not recurring. No, no, no. But I agree with John that we need to be able to focus. So it'll be a special meeting. But can somebody uh make a motion to that effect? But he was breaking down. The break was loud. All right. So, we're all set. You're good.

All right. So, commissioner comments. I have one. Uh we're losing um Charlie now on city council which I think we can't say it's more so many zoning. Oh, I have no idea how to count all these. Yeah, I don't either. Anyway, you only have two beaches a month. Well, thanks for all that you got. She needs extra help on the sign committee and on the zoning and on the zoning.

Oh, that's right. So, um Well, I was going to ask about the sign committee. Is there anybody who would uh like to be on that? You meet the fourth Tuesday of the month at 10:00 a.m. But give give an update. The update is it's basically ready to go to city council. the new signing ordinance, right? So, the heavy lifting and the multiple multiple meetings is really hopefully unless city council sent it back is done. It's just a normal review of any pending sign issues.

So, a lot gets approved by the zoning administrator. So, we only have to meet if um it's triggered that we have to make the approval. Is anybody interested? I'm okay. move on zoning committee. I I would be pursuing the zoning committee. So that's that's what I just show up. I feel like you were a bit Why do I think that come to most

how many designs that is technically? No, it was you and Cynthia and Rick and Ted and Ted and Carol and Carol spot. We allowed it to travel for a little while. Yeah. And then would come and sit in the audience and the update on that is it's really time for the nut and all the all the easy stuff's done. It's two we have to do two and three. and three which are those are major major part issues of contention but they're not going to be addressed by the zoning committee it's going to be the full commission

that's correct but the word smithing will go back to the committee to do the word sm I'm only but you're planning on some I've two other questions. Yeah. When's your return? I was appointed. So my turn August of this year. I s 26. 26. When's your appointment anyway? He said 20. So you're longer, right? For continuity and I can just come and sit. Okay.

So if Max wants it, I'd rather see for the good of the commission. What might be all that in all seriousness? Yeah. Well, Charlie, can you still serve on the zoning committee plan commissioner? I guess that's Yeah, because he's voting. Yeah, I'm the one that'll give you a hard time. Max, you're gonna meet a member on the committee and then I'll you'll still get the comments. I'll just come. I'll just come. When I can, I'll come and and be a public member.

Okay. I feel like good. Okay. Updates. What else? Anybody else has time? Uh I just uh completed the citizen planner uh course and uh there was six threehour zone of Zoom meetings. Wow. I mentioned to Rick that his son conducted some of the uh one of the sessions a couple weeks ago with Marquez. It's very interesting. Uh you know sometimes you think we have unique everybody's killed the same

as we had people from uh city area rural Detroit we had upper peninsula of Very interesting. Well, congrat congratulations. Do you think he gained his work? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. What did you say? I was wondering if you felt that he gained.

Yeah, it was a good a good introduction. You know, some of the things know but wonderful. I just wonder if it's appropriate at all now to comment on next next public hearing. I should just hold that but okay. You know they submitted the application and the fee they're entitled to a public hearing and

okay you know that's the process. So in the last meeting we talked briefly about encroachment of shrubbery and that on the sidewalks the encroary as an example and it was mentioned that that's the property owner's responsibility and I don't care whose responsibility is if it's the property owners and the city needs to bring it to the property owner as a as a as they need to take care of it. It's just I don't want it lost in well is it the cities or is it the property owners and who's going to who's going to end up being responsible for it because it's not just street it's other places too

there's nothing to protect the scratch only update that I have we had pre-construction meeting today on the Jimmy John's project

oh they're closing on the property tomorrow And they're probably going to be some people will be on site next week. The first phase is is to provide a temporary gravel parking lot adjacent to the urgent care for their staff to park because now their stats aren't where the building's at. And then the building then will be going through uh the demolition as part of the Eagle grant, the remediation of site. They're contemplating hopefully that everything will be done on that end by like March uh April. Uh they have a extremely tight time or aggressive thinking that they're going to have the store open by June or July. Wow.

That's I don't think that's going to happen. What's the Taco Bell? Yeah, but that was built in a field though. Yeah, that was Yeah, this is this has got the remediation. You know, time between the time that they tear the building down, then they take the test. Takes a couple weeks to get the test results back. They return to there, they've got to remediate. So, there's almost like a two-month period in

say you're waiting to do your two care plan. So based on what they find. Yeah. Yeah. So they're, you know, I mean, they they're they have an aggress, you know, every contractor has an aggressive schedule, but in all practicality, you really I don't think they're really going to be constructing the building until like end of March, April, you'll start seeing some stuff burn on the right hand turn when we got right hand turn and you plan the concrete concrete or whatever.

Oh yeah, we designed it. That's concrete that goes right around. Big cat. be very difficult and people I've seen people do it stupid but but there you know they we I worked with Jason Fay we did as aggressive as a curve that we could and they they seem to make it work so I mean it it's definitely pointing in the right direction but I pun intended so any other projects coming at us

uh now Lisa had inquiries but we haven't seen anything in the way of any plans or anything or any we had I haven't been involved in any pre-development meetings so I don't see that shame do you have any additional the opra for the former Leo's lounge was approved we got that certificate actually today from the state tax commission talking to the owner they're wanting to start construction after the first of the year very quickly um they have they have also a pretty aggressive timeline, but they've got pretty much everything in a in a going forward. I don't know, Rick, from a historic tax credit, are you working with them on that? Okay.

Yes, they did receive the approval from the National Park Service for the what's called part two application, which is the detailed description of the rehabilitation. What's that going to be? The Leo's Lounge downtown. It's going to be a bar lounge on the main level. Then there'll be some residential below and residential above. So I believe eight units total. Residential and then bar lounge and some sort of a skeleton speak easy. Yeah. Speak easy. Yeah. Lower level. Yeah. Yeah. Rich. They're they're putting in the coal living units that the planning commission amended the ordinance for.

So they're going to be in the lower level. any other major projects up to campus? Um, trying to get developers interested in the former Kmart Big Lot uh project or site for potential housing uh use. Um, so we've had a number of people express some interest and have looked at it, including um um uh Maple Block uh developer. So, trying to get some momentum there. We'd love to transition that into usable um uh space that would kind of check the box of additional housing opportunities, but uh

be more appropriate for the that site. Yeah. Yeah. Zip those loops. Yeah. Um 224 Michigan is coming along. 24 Michigan. Delray. Michigan and Y. Hold on.

Yep. So, they hope to be leasing u mid January. Um they're getting they're wrapping that project up. That's nine nine units. Um the five units above city city park grill are ongoing as well. So, that that project is moving forward as well. Um, and then I have a number of I think I I'm up to nine chill grant applicants that are getting federal dollars to rehabilitate uh their properties. Um, so that's capped at $40,000. I believe I have four properties that are at the max. Most of them are roofs, uh, windows, uh, furnaces, water heaters. Um but a good cross-section of the community are taking advantage of that opportunity. So that's great

throughout the city. Throughout the city. Yep. So we have that grant until the end of May. So if you know anybody that's needing obviously it's income based so they there's a very rigorous process that folks have to go through and I give them that warning at the front end. There's a lot of boxes to check because this is federal funds and um there's a lot of verification. So, it's pretty intrusive, but it's certainly worthwhile for someone that needs those resources. When was the um redevelopment ready last updated terms of identifying?

So, that was two years ago. So, it's a five-year renewal. So, I think we're starting in our area on the Mistry Corridor, correct? Um and four, but Oh, you're talking about priority redevelopment sites. Oh, okay. Yeah. Sorry. Um, yeah. So, we need to look at that again. Um, is that something the planning commission should be taking a look at?

It probably should start here and then they make you all make a recommendation to um, city council. I can pass on to John what our current priority redevelopment sites are. Um, and then as you drive around the community, you see properties, okay, that that one could use some some love. Um, and if just because they're listed doesn't necessarily give them additional dollars, if you will, from RC, but it definitely assists in that process. So, if we can identify those and we list them in our in our plan, that that is helpful. So, similar to what we did for Maple Block, Maple Block was on our RC site, priority redevelopment site. So, they were able to get some pre-development dollars to assist with some um uh environmental work, other things at the very front end of that project to make it viable for the developer. So,

well, and in conjunction with that, the the budget uh was changed slightly. The proposed budget was changed slightly in that the recommendation from the planning commission that there be a sub area plan 4 has been postponed. Yeah. So, it won't be It's not budgeted for 26 anymore. It's budgeted for 27. Yeah. And the thought for that was Maple Block's not going to be fully um leased out until um June July. Um so that would give them the rest of the year to allow us to kind of watch how things are flowing through that uh corridor and then in 27 we would activate that plan and get that plan going. Um

on the other hand, there may be some interest in redevelopment of some of those parcels in that area that will be brought forward before that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We did a whole thing on neighborhood endings. How does this fit into all? That's one of the tools. Yeah. We need to get right. Yeah. Yeah. Has there been any discussion tied to any level regarding the old um rulers farm building

across the street? And the reason I bring that up is last year before winter they removed part of the superructure. It's on the ground now. Um, but the other thing is there was an open house over at the lofts and someone commented that there's appears to be only one parking space for apartment and it was kind of a flippant response that well if they have two cars they'll have to park one on the street. It's like there is no place in that neighborhood for parking on the street. So I don't know if the grooer property becomes available. The GIS map currently shows it as being owned by Harbor.

Yeah, they acquired it. Well, I had understood that a couple of board members acquired it, but they transferred the ownership now. Okay.

So, it is it it apparently is Harbor's intention eventually to come to the planning commission and ask for further development of their facilities. would love to see that uh redeveloped using the infrastructure that's there like uh there's river valley in Germany that post World War II um it look apocalyptic and everything's just abandoned um instead of just dozing everything we keep the original her Okay. Well, I just guess you do

that. I would just make a general state. If you are driving around the city and you see a potential code issue, email me, let me know um so we can kind of get that started. I've heard you say that about overgrowth. I'm not exactly sure. Addresses. So, if you have a like an address area that you could throw out throw at me, that would be helpful so we can pinpoint the area. If it's the whole length of a certain street, that's fine. But you might not want to say it right now as we're recording, but you can get with me. Um, and we can, um, get that going.

I mean, last time it was brought up about the greenway that people driving on. Has that been handled at all? They put up a bunch of orange pylons people off. I haven't seen any tracks since then. They take the snow piles off the park. Now some of it except for monster trucks. All right. Are we done? I this meeting at 7:53 p.m. Thanks.