Planning Board - Regular Meeting

All right, I will open up this meeting of the Maynard Planning Board. Today's date is uh November 12th, 2025 and the time is 7:05 p.m. Um, all members of the planning board are present here in town hall. Um this meeting is being held in hybrid format which means members of the public members of the board or applicants can participate here in town hall or through the zoom link virtually. Please note this meeting is being recorded. Um Bill we discussed um moving to item three first as this is a simple um request from a previous applicant. Um can we first confirm if the applicant's here online?

Sure. Can you you hear us, Adam? Yep, I got you. Thanks, guys. Oh, hey, Adam. Thanks for joining tonight. Yep. Bill, do you want to brief the board on this one first and then I'll turn it over to Adam?

Uh, the board approved the site plan and special permit for 2 to six powder mill uh in I believe it was January of um of 24. Oh, I can check that. But, uh, when it was, but anyway, it's it's coming up for two-year renewal. Um, and there has been no um at this point um the bylaws require that if there has been um no activity um that the applicant either request renewal for cause, which the applicant has in writing. I think I brought it up to you, the guys there. And um if the board chooses the the the uh requirement could be extended by two years um by uh an administrative agreement uh from the planning board. I think that the applicant probably has a few things to add, but in general, we got his letter uh there and uh I can turn it over to Mr. Stat.

Sure. Um so Adam, we received your letter, we reviewed it. Um if there's anything else you would like to provide now is the time. No, I mean I think I basically laid out what's been happening for the last two years and uh um some of the hardships that I've had to go through. But uh hopefully, you know, with uh economy changing and things moving in a better direction and and uh people interested in in the prop in the project. uh if I have this two-year extension, I can make something happen for all the hard work we've put into, you know, building and getting this approved to what it is now. Thank you, Adam. Um any questions from the planning board.

I I um the only thing I would ask is that um it might be a good idea for uh you and I to meet separately with the applicant if you want. We we can meet afterwards for sure. We can meet offline with Adam. No problem. Um, any questions from the planning board? Yeah. The property still for sale? Yes. No options on her. It's been under agreement uh with PNS's two times now.

Any other questions? Bill, what's the action here? The action is a request that you would grant the applicant's request to extend the existing special permit and the existing site plan approval. My recommendation would be um all the conditions stay as are there are some requirements there that um um are still have to be um fulfilled before uh the project moves forward to building pertinent stage. Also uh a development agreement as you may recall is part of the your approval which has not been executed yet at this point. I think the complications have delayed that. Um and um I think the judging on the circumstances on the ground the two years is going to be uh necessary for the admin to work these issues out and hopefully come to a resolution that that moves everything forward successfully.

Wasn't that brutal contingent on the development agreement? It is. What do you mean by that? Well, one of the requirements is that a development agreement be executed. Um, it was prior to building permits at the time. Um, we haven't we haven't completed it and it still hasn't been completed. So, that still has to be executed. So in other words the condition would remain in outstanding along with um that's the condition or was it contingent on the vote?

No it was a contingent that we we said one of the conditions that applicant shall shall um execute. Uh one of the other circumstances as you know is there's uh circumstances some of the uh infrastructure water stills to be uh through DPW we're required going to need that as well. Um what's town staff we have recommendation here? Recommendation would be to extend uh everything as is um which maintains the requirements that I just discussed in particular to be clear um development agreement and is part of the existing special permit and I can pull it up if the board prefers.

Do we need to motion the extension for a two-year period or is it to a specific date to what? Do the mo a motion for something like this. Would it be for a two-year period or for a specific date? My recommendation would be two years from the effective date of the previous permit. From the effective end date of the previous permit. No, the effective date of the previous permit. So when it was approved, I I I meant now. No, no, he's ear. It's early. Yeah, it was February 2024 is when it was. That's why it's coming up in February 2026 for the two years.

So, it would be whatever the date was. I believe it was probably if it was if we approved it February, it was probably a 20-day appeal period. So, it probably be like March 1st or something like that.

So, the approval would be two years from March 1stish. I I don't have the exact date, but roughly, yeah, I mean, I can calculate it, but I don't have that right now exactly. It's going to be right in there. And and that's my recommendation. Ba can can do whatever they choose with it. But I think uh given the circumstances, there's some um situation that has to be worked out and it will take some time. Adam, you're requesting two years. Uh I think two years would be sufficient. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

The original the reason I selected two years that's the original length of our approvals across the board. Other questions, comments.

All right. I'll I'll make a motion to grant an extension of an additional two years of the effective date of the original um permit of the special permit and site plan approval that includes all previous conditions. I'll second that. Yeah, they're good.

Yeah, the and as all the terms of the conditions apply. So, so everything if the board um approves this extension, everything as is in the existing decision plots. So, nothing's changing from that. Okay. Um all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. 50 to approve the motion and the extension of two years. Adam, thank you for coming in tonight. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it, Adam. I'll I'll write up something on that and we'll schedule something in the next week or two. Meet up. Thank you.

Thanks, um, Bill. Let's turn to item two and I will open the public hearing for 151 Main Street. This is an application filed by Matthew Paul of Conquered, Massachusetts. And this is a special permit request and a site plan approval for the business zoning district in the down using also using the downtown overlay district site requirements under the DoD. Um I presume this is the team for tonight. Um is Matt here? Hi Matt. Nice to meet you guys. Um thanks for coming in.

Um would you mind just for the record introducing your team? We just have to it's procedural. We just need everyone on record. Sure. So that end is Dan Carr from Stampsky McNary the civil engineers and surveyors. Jonathan McIner from Studio Troya the architects and Brook Cash from Lemingbrook landscape architects and Jordan Bradley from Studio Troya the architect. Um Billy you want to give us a briefing on this first and then we'll turn it over. I presume you have a presentation line prepared for this evening of some sort. Really long. That's okay.

That's my favorite.

Um, yes. This is uh this property, as you recall, is the former Epsilon property. Sort of a pizza shaped property, I guess. Pizza. And um it falls within the downtown overlay district. Um the number of units is it's three units uh three residential units and commercial space which qualifies as a mixed use by light or special permit um I'm sorry for site plan. However, the site plan has an obligation for design review because of the location. A special permit is not required for the actual structure. But what we have tonight is a special permit request for parking waiverss. So to be clear um because of the um number of units um it's not a special purpose is strictly for the parking lot. I believe it's the only thing we have there. So it's a little unusual in that sense. So we have a site plan, we have designer view, we have three rental units, commercial falls under mixed use, and a request for parking waivers. Um there's been a um for the peer reviewer, we have green engineering with uh Jim Thorne who's online now. Um the go ahead um was given I think a little I'm not sure exactly but probably 10 days ago, 12 days ago. I don't believe that uh they've green has completed their review. However, um I did speak with Jim today and he's has uh reviewed what DPW has sent as well as um um any of the other um tidbits that have been flying around from various reviewers. Um the in this case we've

retained uh Tim Hats uh from uh institute architecture to conduct a basic design review. If you recall our design review we wanted to adjust a little bit to kind of give uh change how it was done a little bit. So the board had clear direction of what a building noise or if there's any architecture changes and uh it would provide that to the applicant as well and those came in uh last week and you should have a copy of those in front of you. Uh I also printed out Mr. Paul's um statement of how he addressed design review and the perfect itself which is something I think is um the board will find helpful but um so that's review and the anything else I can pull up as we have it um there's a presentation that I'm going to turn over when you're ready and it'll be powerpoint presentation we'll share the screen for our viewers we have any online oh we have Jim um and I think That's everything. Did anybody have any questions for my little intro? [clears throat]

Everybody put anybody to sleep. Not yet. All right. Yes, we're happy to hear whatever you have. Do you want me to stand or do you are um what's easier? You stand here and I can give you the clicker. I can stand here and let me just make sure that I have the uh screen share. And uh make sure I don't think there's any.

I was just going to go through a few images to kind of show the board what what we're trying to respond to in the design plans and then I'll pass it over to each of the consultants to walk through their section of the the documents and we can if you have any questions or comments after we kind of walk through it together. How's that? Okay. When I get out of the way for Bill, are we sharing screens? Yeah.

So, we gone through a few uh names for this project. We were calling it the station loss, but I see that uh the old fire station has been called McDonald's station. So, I didn't want to steal Mr. McDonald's uh naming rights. So, we're calling it the Gateway, which is actually the the owner prior to Epsilon. And they were a local family that uh owned it from about the 1950s, and they used to lease the property to the Austin Main Railroad. You can see in the older shot here, there's a really appealing density about the town in general. And our site is in the lower left there just on the other side of the textile worker housing. You can see the old train station just popping popping above the roof line there. And so we're interested in this concept of infill density and trying to reanchor this corner of the intersection at main and railroad. And given the triangular shape of the lot, you can see the even the train station was a pretty narrow building pushed out towards the apex. And after it was a train station, it was a a Shell gas station for about 40 years. Uh the tanks were removed in 1990. So, it's been either a vacant use or uh parking for the last 15 to 20 years. So, it's something of a a brownfield vacant lot location, which may not be appealing to most people. And and this is sort of what it looks like

today, but I look at it as something a little more potentially exciting. Think about the geometry of the flat iron building in New York and this oak planting done by the environmental artist Joseph Boyce in uh Castle where he proposed planting 7,000 oaks to restore uh bomb sites from World War II and to comment on the importance of having natural features within urban renewal projects. And so Bill's probably a little bit tired of my face as I've spent a lot of time asking questions down here in the planning department. And during that time, we had a a local artist uh young woman who did a little graffiti tag for us on the existing building instead of doing a slick uh developer presentation in the window. She did this uh gorilla architecture mural, which is a flat iron building uh climbed by King Kong. and her quote was from the music producer Brian Eno. I'm interested in the idea of art as a conversation. The most exciting art is art that uh is a conversation we didn't know we wanted. And I I think that's something that we're interested in doing here tonight is just talking about what can possibly be done here and what we would like to do. And as you know, the mill is something that we've looked at quite a bit. And I think there are aspects of the mill which are a little bit grittier and and dirty. And I think that has some appeal to it. It's authenticity. And I think that's really a quality that the town has in general.

And there are interesting juositions. the parking garage pushed in between the older traditional buildings, the bridges over the water that have really dynamic quality. And we looked a lot at the the buildings that are specifically recommended by the board and by the the zoning bylaw, especially here on Mason Street, the continuous storefront and the separation of the the ground floor from the upper floor. There's some applied uh decoration and then there's different massing particular Masonic block is really tall substantial building with the three floors and a half story out of the street level. So that kind of scale uh I think is really interesting in in meeting the density of the mill. And then the other one here on Main Street, the continuous storefront, but the variety of the the storefronts and the different businesses that are here. And also the the glass is not down at the sidewalk itself, but is up on the water table. Just a quick walk down the rail trail. So this is the rail trail with our site on the left and the railroad housing or former railroad housing on the right. This is our building on the right hand side which has uh vegetation right up against the back wall. This is a pretty typical uh of the rail trail experience where you're hitting a lot of backsides of buildings with exposed mechanical uh crossing the railroad bridge here at 115 main which I think is a interesting development

and parking uh something and I were talking about is as the lots are deeper as you found main street a lot of people heard parking behind the building which was not something we were able to do in our location. And with that, I'd like to pass it to Dan though where he's going to be in a different file which I'm not sure where Bill has that. Be really nice. We have Bill around [laughter] him. He always comes back eventually. Um, we can pause for questions on that for Bill. Any questions?

If we wanted to go look at papers.

Well, I'm happy to be a little patient. Um, any questions thus far? We can talk procedure then instead. Um, so typically, you know, applicant provides presentation materials. I turned over to the board for questions, comments. We get staff input. In this case, we have some design input as well. So, we'll go and review some of that. We'll enter that a lot of that info into the into the hearing itself. It's a public hearing. We want it on record. Um, and eventually we'll get towards um some type of of closure and we'll decide if we want continuence or if we can close the hearing tonight. My guess is we probably won't close tonight since be since since um our design engineer hasn't had enough time to review all of the items. So I anticipate we'll probably have probably one continuence on this. Um does that all sound reasonable from your point of view? this and we've received some of the comments from uh Tim Hes and from Wayne

Bill sorry we've actually started to put together responses to that we just don't have it in drawing for that's completely fine um we need some tech help to pull up the next how do I get the drawing set the drawing set is it one from the design you send it's being drawn packaged the the original for that will be

it's within and all your materials here. Yeah. But I was wearing it from earlier today. If it's open, I don't care. You need to add I might have erased it when I put the new one on. Yeah, today is Oh, in the Google Drive.

Let me get it. Apologies on that. I got the um that this isn't it? No. Let me show you back here. I'll show you which one you want. I got excuse me in a second. I got two front. long boring.

You guys weren't kidding. [laughter] Chris think there's any conflicts that we can maybe resolve or come very close to resolving to knife though that's not everybody has to come back that would be great for everybody I think um I don't know what they are um can I ask a question cuz it's not I don't think he cares. Do you Does anyone remember where there is parallel parking along Main Street, but I guess it's further back.

It's before the site currently. It is. Yes. I feel like there's some right in front of the pizza bar and that's next door. So that's separated by a pardon. Yeah. So there's the drive. Yeah. This is the existing building on site here. And there is like a a curb opening here. And then there are spaces. Okay. On on the road here across the street, they go all the way up to this. The reason that there aren't any currently, I would assume, is because there were thousand cur. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, what Matt's trying to do is clean up that edge and then that would obviously provide space, real estate for spots. Yeah. Which would be great. I agree.

Yes, we've heard from DPW that paint is pretty expensive these days, but maybe we can find a way. Um, you want to talk through the parking waiver while we're waiting?

Sure. Yeah. So, um, we're proposing five parking spaces on site. Um the so the what we're proposing is uh retail and office space on the first floor and then the three residential units above and um the parking requirements are one and a half spaces per residential unit. So for the three unit that's the five spaces and then the retail office space is one space per um 500 square ft of gross floor area which results in uh six spaces. So um technically there are 11 spaces required. Uh we're proposing five and the idea is that we're going to um hold the spaces on site, the five parking spaces on site for the residential units and then anyone using the retailer office space would park on the street.

Okay. And we've um I've I've gone through Google Street View of this area for the past several years and there's almost always multiple spaces available on the street. So doesn't seem like it's a So my primary question of that would be where does the long-term parking occur for employees since the street's two hours? It's a good question. Um, and if you haven't thought through it, that's completely I do hope that we would allow mill.

What is it, Bill? Just so you're aware, we we just we're just trying to enter some stuff into the record. The parking request is for five proposed and the required is 11. [clears throat] Okay. Okay. And one question that the board has. Yes. Is where will employees of retail space park for the long term since street parking is two hours. So something to something for the team to chew on. Uh that's a good that's a good point.

But we can proceed. Um let's just go we just we just unloaded. Okay. Here you go. This is the one you wanted here. It still sharing still sharing. Oh,

sorry, Jen. I like the name. that was a nice one. Yeah, Bill, you're doing great. Okay. And again that you

all right so I'll just take you through kind of the existing conditions on the site. Um this is a a really zoomed out plan here. The the pizza shape law is here. Um the Asabet River is here. Uh Railroad Street is behind the property here. And then Main Street is here. And then Railroad and Main Gate right around here. So this this is the existing conditions on site. Um the site is almost entirely impervious. Uh over 95% impervious. The building is here in the uh the eastern corner of the lot and the parking lot goes all the way to here. So there's only this little tiny area that's not impervious a lot. Um and the Aset River rail trail behind it here and it's it's it's higher in elevation than this property. There's a retaining wall along the property line here that um keeps the grade higher behind the property and then there's the formal railroad housing here and then the aset river behind that housing here. Uh we did go to the conservation commission um for the work since we are on the very outer edge of the 200 foot riverfront area and we did get approval from them for this work. So this is the proposed plan here. Um again the existing building is in this corner here that is proposed to be removed and new building is in this area here and then the five parking spaces are here. Um, as we mentioned before, there are several existing curb cut openings into the existing parking lot. Um, that we're proposing to close those and only leave open and reuse one existing one to get to that parking area. Uh, one of the town engineers comments was um to to actually close another or partially

close one of the existing curb openings. The neighboring curb thing here starts um a little bit along the front edge of this property here. So, we would just shift that over to meet the edge of our front edge here to close that or partially close it. Um this is just another plan showing uh what's proposed on site, a more stripped down plan. Um go back to this one that'll um we're proposing that's connect to town sewer and town water. There's an existing uh sewer manhole in Main Street here that we're proposing to connect directly into with our proposed sewer line um supposed to connect to the town water line over here and and DPW has looked into our request for the water withdrawal because I know that's a big concern in town right now. We they did allow us um the gallons per day that we needed for this development here. So we have at least that and I know DPW is at least in the process of looking at the uh you know the product as a whole. Um we're reducing impervious on site. We're introducing green spaces where there currently are very few. So just by reducing impervious we're reducing the rate and volume of runoff that leaves the site. Um but in addition to that we are proposing some bleaching catch basins on site. Uh one for the parking area and then two for the the roof drains from the building. So um those those catch basins will further reduce the rain volume of runoff leaving the site even though we're already reducing impervious surfaces. Um, we're proposing to rebuild the retaining wall or at least port part of the retaining wall along the rear property line here as it's in poor condition. Um, it's less than 4 ft in

height though, so it's not a it's not a major construction deal with that. um the existing there's an a portion of the existing wall that is to remain and uh between that wall and the proposed building. We're proposing some crush stone just because it's a small area. So there we've got some details on the infiltrated catch basin. We were talking about the possibility of more on parking command Thursday and measure Wednesday.

Yeah. Needs to get together with Wayne. Yeah. Measurement from third to third to see if the add space for parking pan. So yeah. So we're looking into adding um some on street parking in front of the closed current effects isn't here. Um if we have the width of course we go to do that. May I pause you there? Is there parking on the south side of the road currently? Yes. Okay.

There is all along all the way up to um the intersection with or the entrance to the parking lot to the south over here somewhere. So this is the utility connection plan. Um sewer is going to connect by gravity. Um, since the pipe is quite deep in the street. For sedimentation control, we're proposing some construction fences around the area of work, some silt sacks in the existing catch traces of the street to capture any sediment that may come from the site. And I think that covers civil set. if you guys have any questions, so if you want to do a phone,

um, now may be a good time to check in with Jim. Um, Jim, I know you haven't had much time to look over these plans. Um, but I wanted to see if you had anything you'd like to flag for this team during this meeting now. Um, otherwise I anticipate that the process will be similar to previous is that you'll work offline to review the site plans, provide comments, and then allow the applicants engineer team to respond to those comments. So again, do you have anything you'd like to flag for discussion purposes during this meeting?

Uh, yeah, I have I have a couple things. Um, so one thing was, um, in your presentation, um, you mentioned that this used to be a gas station and so there could be contaminated soils within the site. Um, have you done any testing yet to determine if the soils on site are contaminated? We've not done any core testing, but we did a a phase one review with Coopertown Engineering and they looked at uh all of the D reports and the the general conclusion that is that the there's no significant risk uh in the current state and our plan is to minimize the excavation at the foundation by using either a shallow frost protected slab or slab on frost wall.

Okay. And I guess one of my other concerns with that too is is the uh I guess the leeching basins. Usually if you have an infiltration BMP, usually don't locate those in contaminated soils because that um could um basically make the groundwater um a bigger issue. So um that was my main concern is those leeching basins relative to the contaminated soil. So um just maybe getting some documentation that yes the soil is suitable for infiltration. You know none of the contamination is water soluble or anything like that. Um so that was that was one concern. And the other concern is um I didn't see any like accessible parking on site. Um you know I know you have five parking spots and I know if you were to add accessible parking on site you'd probably lose two spots due to the parking spot and the access aisle. So I wanted to kind of bring that up as well.

We were under the threshold for ADA parking. Okay. And the the number of spaces that we're providing. Okay. Due to the the amount of units that you have. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Okay. That's that's all I had for, you know, immediate questions. Thanks, Chris. Um, if you could just help us understand. I don't know what those rags are. So, if you could help the board understand over this review process, um it would just help me out. Sure.

Is that if that's a federal rag, a state rag, or if that's part of our zoning bylaws. Um that's all we can pull that together as a board. Great. Um okay. Um thanks Jim. Any any questions for Jim as so next steps will be for Green Engineering to provide a formal review and then comments back and forth until comments are cleared. Um do so do you have any questions for for Jim at this time? No. No. Um Jim, is landscape part of your scope as well? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, and landscape's next.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, I get you can hang around for landscape, but I wanted to frontload your conversation so we could release you for tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. I'll be back.

So, I'm going to jump to the Freddy page. [laughter] As you know, there's not a lot of space left on this site for landscape. We're trying to green what we can of what is left. Um, I think that as Matt showed in some of the precedent photos, creating this street edge with the building, um, but not as a single mass and the form of the building, which projects need more to, but trying to create the street edge as the urban commission is really important, but then getting these sort of green pockets or green moments on the end as book ends with some screening of the parking um, some screening to the uh adjacent number to the east and then on the west at the narrowest part of the triangle. I think you know our goal is to really um celebrate this unusual shape of the lot and creating this sort of extension of the building mass through these three narrow trees that are there. Especially as you approach um eastbound from west, you know, you read that end of this of this lot uh pretty strongly and we like kind of leading with this green piece that then grows into the building mass as you go from there. Uh we are pretty heavily constrained. There are overhead wires in that sidewalk condition on Main Street. So that restricts our ability to put a really widespreading tree. Um so those are three fairly colon narrow trees. So on the bottom we had our initial plant pallet. We've gotten some feedback from both the tree committee and

conservation. Um we had a predominantly native pallet, but they're interested in us making some swap outs of a few of the non-native things that we had. So, we're working on um on um some changes to the plant pallet, but really the illustrative stays, you know, fairly much the way it is uh in the current condition where we've got several trees and then a a thickly planted understory. Um we're looking to do establishment irrigation only. Um so it would not be irrigated, not draw from municipal water in the wrong condition and uh you know really act as a foil to the building that is going there. That was my stickick. If Jim, [clears throat] I don't know if you had any particular landscape observations right off the bat.

Um, Jim, do you have any feedback at this time regarding landscaping? No, not at this time. Thanks. Thanks. Any questions from the board about landscaping?

I think it looks good. Yeah, the tree committee, they really like native stuff. So, I think if you're going to make some swaps, then that's fine. Love a bear berry. I'm thrilled. The one thing that the landscaping touches on, and actually it might be a question to Bill Ner, is some of the landscaping along Railroad Street is actually on town line, town property, because property line is not the wall. property line is a foot or so in from the wall. So, Bill, how's that work out? They got to get easement for everything they do there. How's that gonna work? The way we Well, there's two things about that. We get we want to get the okay from DPW to plan it there. But typically, um what we did is get an agreement um in in the decision if or if there's a memorand agreement. This case, we probably decision that the applicant is responsible for maintenance. um in perpetuity.

So just an O andM plan essentially. Yeah, an O and M plan. No agreement.

Yeah, I think technically the actual root, excuse me, the actual root balls will be planted within the property line. Certainly the branching or the stems may fall into that area there. But I think that um you know an on andm plan is fine but it it sort of goes within reason that this property will be maintaining those plants and that would include that sort of 10 to you know 14 inch gap between the plantings themselves and the base of that wall that's there.

But just to be clear I'm just so craft you said the root balls all be planted on the property. So it would be a question of overhanging maintenance. Okay. So then that well there's some craft and ground cover and then there's whatever it is stone or stone or whatever behind the building. Yes, that that's a brush stone proposed. And then I believe that the line of dark greens that is north of the patio there right at the end of the building that's a row of shrubs. So you know that that would be the eventual width of the shrub but the actual roof walls will sit within

um even the stone that's being placed that will be placed on town property. Yeah. So that would be the intention. You know this is sort of and it'll be you know I don't think we I don't think anyone here has an issue with any challenging I think it's fine situation of the of the site. I don't know if you have any I the planning I don't think the pling board has any issue with any of that. We just want to make sure that it's written down. It's just clear because we've we've we've seen issues with previous projects that haven't been cleared. So, it's just clear and I don't want it to have to like go to town meeting or something. Yes.

It's an easement on town property, not a town easement on private property. Right. So, that's all. So we just clarify that so I can make sure I and if it has to if it is when to be so would that be something that we handle in like a landscape maintenance report or specification where it calls for I would I would start with what is being placed on town property and Bill will get that to DPW and the hopefully just TPW Currently it's paved, right? Like currently it's paved all the way up to that retaining wall.

Yes. And they have their signage mounted on the retaining wall. Whose signage? Uh Epsilon Parking. Yeah. I mean, it's none of it's going to be an issue. Yeah. Just I I would start with I would Yeah, I would just start with what's being placed on town property and then we'll we'll take it from there. My suggestion would be to keep it moving along would be do that and coordinate with DPW they like just how they and we just put in a conditioner whatever they I check with select board too I check with select board too cuz it ain't DPW land that's a good [clears throat] point we have we have a select board liaison we can talk to

there it is there it is all right sorry to get bogged down that detail Um, any any other comments from the planning board? Um, Jim, I'm happy to release you for the evening. Okay, sounds good. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Jen. Thanks. Hey, I have a landscape question. Sure. um up the it comes up snow storage.

So that was part of the reason the if you see the cursor here the planting at the end here is ornamental grasses. So the idea is you know those will get cut down in the late fall around now and that some amount of snow storage can occur there at the front of those parking spaces. Okay. And any additional snow surge would be trucked off site if necessary in an exceptional snow event. Yeah. Probably removed. Okay.

I think we're good on landscaping. Um my big picture I would just review you know we've already reviewed what the tree committee submitted and see what works and if something doesn't just give us general feedback on why that's First slide is the uh zoning proposal. Um the bottom left, you've seen this quite a bit now, but it's the pizza shape. Thanks for that description, Bill. Uh pizza shaped site. Um just kind of fading out the perimeter of the site, but you can still see um everything that's there. Where's my cursor? Um the parking on the opposite side of the street starts um right after the curb cut going into the mill and continues down to the end and then um on our side of the street, the 151, the odd number side, um starts in front of I think the pizza bagel shop there. Um the upper three images are the existing zoning. That pink is the business district color that's coming from the zoning plan that's on the wall. Um but builder seeing the existing property on this first image. Um the second image is showing what is allowable by um zoning code um for the property in white. And the third image a little bit zoom screen here is showing um the proposal. So it's just showing scale of the existing building what is allowable by the by the

zoning code and our proposed building that we're intending to uh put on the property here. Um I don't think I can zoom in here unfortunately so I apologize for small numbers but um I know you guys maybe have it in front that you can see. Yeah, I might have to still move forward. But

yeah, the fix, but I can tell. Don't worry about it. I can just talk it through. I know you guys have it in front of you. There you go. Oh, perfect. Thank you. back. Drag over.

Okay. So, we're in the business district. Um the lot area is approximately 7500 square ft. Um the existing building footprint on that property is almost 1,700 square ft. Um based on the zoning code um with all the setbacks uh the allowed um building footprint is about 6,700 square ft and what we're proposing is about 2700 square ft. So maybe a third or so um of the allowable. Um the building height is currently just under 20 ft. Um the code calls for a maximum of 45. Um we're trying to be more on the height and scale of the mill on the other side of the street. So at about 35 ft is what um proposing here. Um existing is commercial retail. So it's changed over the years. Um mixed use is what's allowed and and mixed use is what we're proposing here for the building usage type. Um lot frontage we're we're conforming there. Um minimum is 20 ft and we're doing 112 ft. Um front yard setback as well is is conforming. It's 10 ft max and we're just about plus or minus a foot. Um side yard stepbacks again con conforming to um the code here. Um right is about 77 ft that allows for the parking. Um the left because it's a triangle it says not applicable. So just leaving it as that. Um the rear yard is uh 0 feet minimum. So you got it set back there and it's going to be about 6. And when we get back to the shape, it does stagger in and out a bit. Um on the rear yard, um the floor area ratio for the mix use is

is 90% or or nine. Um, and we're at 36% here with the three floors for the floor area ratio. Um, so the parking line item is the one item we've discussed already that's not um conforming per our proposal right now. Um, 1.5 square uh 1.5 parking spots is what's required per residential unit. That multiply by 3 4.5 we round up to the five required. Um I think earlier um somebody may had mentioned um that it's six uh parking spots for the retail. It's a small item. It's actually five. So it's it's 10 required parking spots, not 11. So just small correction there for the record. Um because the retail space is about 2300 square ft. So small item but still um outside. Um, any questions on that? Um, this is the architectural site plan. Won't spend too much time on this because we've seen the um civil and the landscape. We just rotated it a little bit for our favor. Um you can see some of the plantings, some of the paving around the building, some of the parking spots that we're proposing. Um this kind of shows that um clear area for for snow and then get trucked off site if if required. Just to walk through the floor plans briefly. Um there is a central entrance that's shared by the residential units of the home and the commercial units. Um you can go left and right into one of the commercial units. We're hoping for either a small office, some form of nice

retail store um to add to um the town. Um and then you can go up the stairs to the residential units up above. Um I think once there are tenants we would study these floor plans further but just what we're proposing just um up on the second and third floor moving up to the residential units. On the second floor there is a unit on either side that you can access from the second floor on the right side of the plan in this pinkish reddish color. Um, it's a two-unit, two-bedroom, two bath, excuse me, two-bedroom, two bath unit. Um, with the living area over on the right, just kind of see kitchen, um, living room and dining area. And then over on the left, it is a twofloor single unit. So, you walk into that living area, there's a bathroom, powder room. You can walk up the stairs to the bedrooms or keep moving on into the kitchenet um to stay on this unit. Once you're up the stairs, uh there's two bedrooms, one on either side of the stairs and a shared bathroom. Um on the other side, once you walk up the main shared staircase, there's only access to the second two unit, two two bed, two two bath unit. Um, and there's no access into the the double height unit um at this location.

Pause there if there's any questions on that. Um, just so your team's aware, this is great. We love it. But planning one has nothing to do with interior design. Okay. So, um, it's just not our but I do like the space layout. It's really fun to see. [laughter] Great.

We're almost at the stage. Um, so the roof plan, very simple, just showing showing off the plan with the drainage. Um, a skylight to get some light into that that shared staircase. Um, that's that's about it for for the roof. We're um kind of ahead in terms of thinking out some of these things mostly times. um in terms of the um exterior which may be more in in your interest. Um this is probably updated relative to what you have in front of you based on some of the comments we've gotten back. Try to um add a little bit more detailed. I think some of the drawings you have may have multiple iterations that we were thinking about. Um but try to land on one so that there's there's maybe less um discussion from from your guys' part. Um, but what we're trying to do with the finishes of the building and the look and feel of the building is um, most towns in in the US and probably more so in New England has that hierarchy of buildings, that civic building, that historic building, that municipal building in terms of scale, materials, um, usage of the building. And what we're trying to do is this is this is not even a community building. It's it's a private building. We're trying to not compete with the rest of the civic historic buildings. Trying to complement but not compete with with our with our um uh context. So um the materials we've selected here is that dark granite foundation as the water table um that we've seen in some of the examples. Um a darker base. We're thinking about a slate, a green slate that separates the commercial um from the residential. and then uh siding up above um along with some additional architectural details that we personally um like as a design team such as the batten strips um that adds to some verticality to to the

building. So in terms of height um you know we we want we'll do further um more renderings of this but we have tested this out. It's the same height as the buildings across the street. So again, um not on the railroad side, but but on the mill side, on the main street side, trying to not compete, not overpower um but but complement um the neighborhood here. Um in terms of windows, the four light windows is something that we took from the mill to bring it across the street. Um, and then the the rest of the building is trying trying to have a modern look, but but also not to overpower the context with with its um modern feel.

Is that a canopy over the sidewalk or what is that?

It it is just a it's a shallow canopy. It's it's not over the sidewalk. It is within the property line. Um so it is a canopy, but it's it's not going over the sidewalk. It's just um slight overhang um over the retail portion of the building which we would probably have minimal signage on. Um there wouldn't be signage up on top or overpowering signage but minimal signage. I think that might be shown a little bit better here. We're just saying retail office depending on what the tenant is and maybe some small um suspended signage that you can see driving past or from the sidewalk that might be slightly lit, but again um minimal here in terms of signage on the exterior. These two views, the same thing we've been looking at, just the flat elevations. [clears throat] And then this is this is the rear elevation, which we did get some feedback from the from the peer review and um looking into some ways to make this rear elevation a little bit I like say up. Um same elevation just black and white. want to make sure that we meet met all the requirements and that front and rear elevation as well. Um this little curb cut in the in the um section of the grade there is is the retaining wall and and rail trail on the on the other side. Um couple of last slides here. I'm just showing a night rendering. Um I have one more slide showing some lighting calculations just that we're not creating uh a bright absorbent amount of light. It's minimal. In fact, most of

the lights coming off the building would be from inside the units coming out the windows which um the rendering is is a little dramatic. Those may may have some blinds just depending on dependent of course but most of the light is coming from inside the building not on the outside. We do have exterior lights. Um the lighting calculation will show what amount of light that's giving off, but we're not um brightening up the street with signage and and too much light here. So jump into that again.

Not sure why you didn't. There you go. Oh, good. Got that. [laughter]

All right, that that'll work. Um, so this is just showing the calculations in terms of foot candles. Um, this space is probably about 50 foot candles. Most office spaces that we're designing is roughly 35 to 50 foot candles depending on what um type of space it is. Um some of these newer like lab buildings that you're seeing the amount of light that's coming out of those that's 70. So typical office space is 30 to 50. Um there are no numbers higher than three put candles on this slide and the threes are right below um the leg pole um within the um property itself. As you [snorts] start to get onto the sidewalk um it's it's a bunch of ones um behind the building. It's a bunch of ones. Um but again it's just showing that there's there's minimal lighting lighting that you can see the building a bit lighting that you can walk past but it's not um in your face or disruptive to those what would it take to get the sidewalk to three

um well if I go back one slide um that's not that correct one is 1.0 zero is actually the um egress route requirement. So three is actually very bright for uh an exterior pathway. I'm concerned about the public space, not the building egress. I'm going to light up the sidewalk. One thing that we've noticed is there's a light pole on the side on the end of the building. There's one around called the middle of the property and one a little bit beyond. Then this light pole doesn't have a picture.

That would probably help if that light pole was to have a picture. But it looked the majority of the street here, I think, is every other um All right. So, what can you do to compensate for that missing light? Oh, missing. Wait, what are the fixtures? Are they sconces on the side of the building?

Yeah. So, at the retail um entry, which again depending on the tenant, we're not sure if they prefer to use that entry or the main entry, but um those would be sconces beneath on the on the sidewalk frontage. Um it would just be recess lights in the canopy um pointing down. Um so, you're you're seeing you're seeing a bit of light on the sidewalk, but obviously where it ends, the light the light ends. So, you the sidewalk is getting lit from from the building. was I just can't tell from that one how much that's just coming out the windows like if the interior was dark what was the side you want to probably discuss as a team and

yeah I mean I think that's a fair question the overhang that Jordan's mentioned um there's a you notice the faceting on that side of the building so where that's faceted that's what's overhanging that first floor retail space right within that floor thickness is an opportunity to put in recess cans, basically recess light pictures, right?

So, to answer your question, I'm trying to illuminate the sidewalk itself. You know, if it was allowable, you could create an aperture in that can that would spill onto the sidewalk and illuminate it, you know, like a light in your kitchen, a recess down light in there. So, you've got opportunities there if that's the goal. Um, you know, a lot of people don't want the reason we do these lighthouse um is to show that we don't spill off site, but if there's a desire to do [clears throat] that, I would think that would be the top. That'd be up to you guys.

Well, like just thinking about, you know, um the improved pedestrian experience, I think what a bit more an appropriate amount of light to make, you know, safe passage for people who are going to the retail shops or just walking by would be beneficial. I think people have been um we've at times uncomfortable walking on that that particular strip has worked uh hard with a number of projects that are on main streets in particular to eliminate the walkway without being like you know going but makes sense

but I think that would be um an improvement that would be relatively you know straightforward to make and I think someone could enjoy that. Uh, is there a night just because I don't know, is there a night sky regulation being made for fixtures? There power planning board rules and regulations for fixes dark sky compliance. Okay. Um, yeah. All the fixtures we could still achieve.

Yes. Um, and it's not full dark sky of all pictures is not necessarily required. Obviously, you have safety lights, parking lights. It's not necessarily garris like always. Um I am I'm interested. So, in other projects, we've been able to accomplish um some of these sort of safety um uh safety improvements of the sidewalk lighting through more traditional sconces that are tied to like the the sort of more brick and mortar um

buildings we have in town. Um, I'm curious what type of lighting sconce or lighting apparatus would be appropriate for this type of design, um, which is clearly not, you know, meant to match the mill buildings and some of the other building structures we have in town. I think the fixtures were selected first for the dark sky compliance and to minimize light spillage, but they're they're relatively minimal and small and comparable to the new fly by night store. I don't know if you've been by there at night. They have a couple of pretty small sconces that were just casting a little bit of light down the wall and [clears throat] something like that is what we had in mind. And then some of the newer lighting at the interior spaces at Milan Maine or the interior floaty guard spaces which are uh mix of ballards and post lights.

Are those specs included in the package? The actual fixture says no, but we can Okay. Once we once we get to a final, we should probably just stick them in there. Yeah, we do. We we have a consultant that felt the lighting calculations that um what was the consideration on lighting on the north side of the property adjacent to the um trail? Was there any consideration for that?

Yes. So, so they actually did specify what the light fixtures were. I apologize. that is actually on the drawings or we gave again further information but um this drawing is probably illustrating the lighting the light locations the best. Um the red dots are the lighting locations. You can see the two sungvices um near the retail side and then the um canopy recessed lights um along the sidewalk side on the south and then on the north that you were questioning it there would be sconces as well. Um, again, we were making sure we're within compliance within within our property um lines and setbacks. So, the intention that that we had was to not um try to spill light over. But along um a couple of these lines where the light fixtures are, you are seeing some some ones which does eliminate it more than than it is currently. Um but that can that can be visited a little bit further. Um, so we we do have three sconces along that side.

How high up are those sconces? Sorry. How high up are those sconces? Um, just trying to figure out visibility to the apartments across the street. They're thinking label is what's the wall there? What's the height of the wall about or how high is the rail about? probably be 30 in 2 feet 30 in. Okay, there it gets up to just under four about where that the back of that car is, I think. Okay, the real parked cars. So, it's five to six feet above the ground surface of the trail. It sounds like

Would you want to see more or less lighting on the north side? I have I have I think it's helpful to have I think the project adds value by having some spillover to the to the trail. I don't know what the right amount is. It's a catch 22, right? The neighbors on the far side, right, and like spillage and the potential of giving some added light to the trail.

And also, you know, the tricky thing about that side of the building is Yeah. the balance between having them looking at a big black box, not black, but at night, uh, versus, you know, it it is it's hard to figure out what they should be looking at. A nice laser show on. There you go. They can project movie. No, I'm just kidding. Are you talking about Tim's comments on or on the Are you talking about what lighting? I'm talking about the lighting. But yes, I mean that also is relevant to Tim's comments about um the back of those three being a little Yeah, that's I thought maybe before we leave tonight, we go back. I had a question for

Bill, if you could switch us back to the images, uh Jordan and Jonathan actually did do a elevation with all our windows. Okay, is it okay if I change it back now or you want to Any other questions on lighting, guys? on on the luminosity.

I I just have a question on that in terms of you know um the way we're trying to address life off of the site uh in terms of couch and stuff like that. It sounds like you guys are amendable a little higher level on a sidewalk on the bike path and stuff. Is that a discretion you guys could sort of weigh in on when that goes up saying, "Hey guys, we'd love you to, you know, it still needs to be dark sky, but we'd love to have it cast out there further because again, that's something that we try to avoid as Jordan was mentioning, but if that's something that you guys are actually looking [clears throat] for, then that could probably be accommodated." So, I think that's the direction we're giving is that the project will add value. Yeah. if there's designed spillover, okay,

into the public accessible walking areas. Um, but that also does not impact neighbors. So, it's that balance, I think. Is that fair? Yeah. In the back, it'll have to depend on the sconces and yeah, you know, how they how they're looking from across the So, you're not going to get in trouble. Yeah. No, but I'm just sort of I guess insinuating it wouldn't be a glow so much as more, you know, you're just spreading out a little bit further to capture the sidewalk that Bill mentioned. And then now in the back, you know, there is a benefit to being on the rail trail. People do use it at night, right? So, you're coming up to that intersection and have some illumination there, I think, would be pretty, you know, appealing.

And there's a safety element, too, to the back side of the building, right? It's nice to have some illuminosity. The police will appreciate that as well residents that would actually. I I think we just have to balance it because we, you know, we we've had um the residents, you know, we want to make sure that it's um and the official either adjustable or downcast enough where the official recommendation for the Aset River Rail Trail is for use from dawn to dusk. Just saying. So, I don't think we need to be lighting up the whole trail. And I mean, the sidewalk is my main concern. Yeah, but if we just have some stuff that's 8 feet tall, I don't mind that. But there's also public layer to somebody's tarp, you know. So, yeah, it's helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, don't worry. At the end, we'll still blame you for getting Yeah. No, I think you guys are thinking about the runway because that's the way I block my neighbor. So, I'd want that light pole to be have a sconce added, but well, it's never going to happen. So, this will be the best we can do. That's a whole other Well, that's what we'll use for leverage. People don't like this idea. There you go. Yeah. We'll just make paper and all that paint.

Yeah. Yep. Increased time electricity cost. We had a big dark sky meeting in Mayor just a couple weeks ago. I went to it. Oh yeah, you did. Talk about boring. [laughter] No, actually it was it was it was it was interesting. Yeah, exactly. Was the lighting compared to have it on that sidewalk to let me share it and it'll be on there, but it'll show up on the video. Go bango. Thanks.

So, this this was in response to one of the comments um about the radio and uh we didn't have enough planning to photoshop this in like we did with some of the others. Um but we do have a couple thoughts to address those comments um by the by the peer review. One of them is expanding the window heights. Um the the main reason primarily was was maybe budget little savings here but um in hearing that those comments there's no reason why those windows couldn't be elongated at the front so that it's a little more special moment as opposed to just just minimal openings which which does change the look of it a lot from this backside and and just we're looking from railroad street now to to the building. Sorry I didn't clarify. And both of these

both of these. Yeah. So, this is what the original design was the the elevations that's in the package. And then this is in response um to um the the peer review. So, elongating the windows and what we are further studying as well, which was part of the recommendations was there is um some blank walls on the on the lower portion of the building that could be a place for some art. um maybe like something tasteful, some of the graffiti work, a local artist or something that when you're riding past the rail trail during the day, it adds a little more excitement to this side of the building. Um so that would probably be done in conjunction with the town um as as best as can be accommodated. Um so making the windows longer so that it looks like the front of a building and not the type of a building and then adding some art um we think can can help address this. And the the last um the one that we did, we were able to photoshop in a bit was the view from um the corner um of the of the pizza looking down the rail trail. You're not really seeing the back of that building, but we just wanted to give that view um so you can uh you have everything to account for and everything.

That is very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, regarding the mural, um, if that wants to be part of the project decision, meaning if if that's an element that adds value to the project for the planning board to decide on, we would just need to figure out how to formalize that. We've we've done it. Yeah, we've done it with um they don't know. Oh, sorry. We've done it. We we have language in the decision about arts, right? that that we were like providing the ability for a mural to be provided. You know, it's we've done it a couple of ways. We've done it where there's a there's a specific design is proposed prior,

right? And we did it where the board designated somebody to um act on behalf of the board. Oh yeah, that was me. You know, but we've also said, you know, you just say this area can be used as a mural if the town mural committee wants to do something there. Cultural district. I think we've we've written in that the applicant can work with the cultural district to at a future date paint something there. And but that's how you get credit for the mural is that we document how it's getting formalized. Exactly. Which newer projects have that?

Um, one of them. I can't think of a number. The marijuana. What number was it in the window? Uh, I don't remember what number it is. There's a new pot shop that has a mural in the window right by Pla Cafe. Just did a one and and we did it with um the other pot [clears throat] shop, didn't we? [laughter] We did it with um Oh, I think didn't we? I don't remember. I have to look. Oh, you mean the one at Arts? Yeah. It just hasn't happened yet. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. It's been um who's actually finished one? Um

Well, we got the ones on Murphy Snider, which were not part of the project. They were kind of a We sponsor those. Yep. On both sides of Murphy Snider. We got to one in the in the record. Um, did that answer your [clears throat] question or Yeah, I'm familiar with all those. I'm just wondering how th those all seem like applied to existing buildings as opposed to approval for Yeah. Check the condition for the arts specialties, the mar. Yeah. How did we we wrote it in a good way at arts because it was You can look it up later. It was kind of I would Yeah, I'd take this off automatically, but yeah,

if you want to if you want it to be part of the decision and get credit for it with the community that's part of the decision or just need to formalize it, it certainly would be in downtown district. Yeah. And something be really cool on the rail trail there. Yeah. Absolutely. [clears throat] Okay. What's next? Um, is that it? That was Yeah, this was the thing I had questions about Tim's. No, you're you're good on questions, Bill. All right, I have one question I'm gonna ask um the team after.

Oh, suspension. Okay. Um All right. So, turn it over to the board. Any big picture questions, comments at this time regarding the project?

I have two quick ones. Um, I didn't see anything on the site plan or on the roof plan about like mechanical equipment. I don't know how like if there's going to be stuff on the roof or on the ground or I don't know like mini splits or something that would be used. I wasn't sure if you were thinking about that and if if they were on the site or on the roof if they needed screening or anything. So, one thing we did do on if we go back to that last image, there's we created an overhang on this uh eastern corner for the electrical metering so that can be accessible between the retaining wall and the building. Uh HB HVAC units, the condensers would be rooftop.

What's the second to last slide that had it? Oh, and this one is stuck in the 50s. Don't There you go. So, lower left hand corner is the setback set in. So, originally that was three stories continuous, but we pushed the ground floor in to have space for metering. So, we don't have any of that stuff on the more visible side of the building. Will there be a form of screening along here? Well, that's there's that's where the retaining wall is like four feet tall or something. And the wood fence on top and the wooden fence. Yeah. So, that's soften it. Yeah. Yeah.

And then the mechanical units would be set in to the building as far as as can be. Um, you know, these aren't large anymore, right? And we haven't gone too much in detail into what that would, but it'll probably be multiple mini splits for the units um that would be smaller and set into the center of the building. It's not visible from the streetscape. Okay. And then the other one was just the uh trash cans and stuff in the parking lot. Was that meant to be like in an enclosure or is that just kind of a open space for

So, one of the challenges of the parking lot is that a typical dumpster truck can't access a dumpster in the parking lot and empty [clears throat] it. So, I found a company in New York that does tote containers. So it's essentially an enclosure that you put a a regular household tote in. Cool. So all the totes would be protected and out of sight but accessible for users. Okay. Really? And servicing. Yes. That was one of my questions is servicing the trash. So

Bill also asked that question before the meeting and that's something that we'd have to figure out is how those get pulled to the street and emptied. So, I'd have to talk to an actual removal company about that. My concern is they block the width of the sidewalk while they're there. That would be a problem. I believe there are some private haulers that at least in a a typical residential go back in your driveway and take the totes. Yeah. You know, down the back of the driveway. So, it's possible, especially given that it's so few units, right? It's a pretty small Yeah. am I

But I I don't even know if this is town trash service or not. Oh, for three units, I think. Yeah, but maybe because of the business it's not. I don't know. And it'd be good to just give you clarity around that. I'm not that deep into that. Understood. We get it. Other questions, comments? I think um I have a question first. is your your prerogative. Natalie, just hope we'll do so. Okay.

Um, can we real quick ask about maintaining sidewalk access during construction? Clearly, it's a very tight site. Um, but since maybe there's all that extra space in the road for uh potential future parallel parking spaces, would you be I mean, would we maybe we could find out if DPW would be amendable to um you know, routing a sidewalk onto the street with Jersey barriers or something depending on how long of the construction like how long the sidewalk would have to be shut down. So, we did just have some comments from Wayne at DW that they would be looking for us to repave all of the concrete sidewalk along the property boundary as well as well as we worked a couple of other curb cuts that we hadn't anticipated at first. I think Dan spoke to them.

Yeah. Um, as far as construction fencing and uh in process estring protection, we hadn't looked at that very closely yet. Yeah. The question is of course just construction mitigation. Yeah. Right. How do we mitigate safety for two two points to that? One is since all the parking on the other side of the street is rarely used that provides some good width to steer for pedestrian accommodation along the site frontage. Yeah. And also I was curious about potential [clears throat] impacts on the rail trail because if that got shut down for like two weeks in the summer that might be a problem.

Oh yeah. Would you anticipate construction shutting on the rail trail? I think we're going to try to figure out how to shoot one in as much into the site property boundary as we can. We'll probably have to stage some materials uh in coordination with some of the mill parking, but for the most part, we're going to try to run it tightly within the pounds. Okay. They had originally looked at doing a mass timber building, but there were too many logistical problems with doing a timber frame with 40 foot long planks. Do you want me to do a mass timber building?

That's fine. Um my question about maintaining the sidewalk access is that in the past we've had issues with projects that drag on much longer than anticipated and um sidewalks being shut down or you know random crosswalks being thrown in across roads to get you to the other side. I just want to make sure that that isn't what happens. I don't anticipate that it would be, but you know it's just we're just trying to keep it in mind. You have a detailed question though. Uh, better be detailed. Yes. All right. Well, I hopefully we'll see a Jeep that shows the bike rack. Oh, yeah. Or at least tell us about Maybe it's in the Maybe it's a bike rack. I don't know. The bike rack itself.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we produced the cut for that yet. We just sent it out of town standard that you prefer or a type. He doesn't like the S ones. That's all I can tell you. Yeah, those are terrible. [laughter] Nobody bikes. Um, we have a we have a bylaw regarding bike storage plate. I don't think we've done the design, but is there a U shape or the lollipop ones or some municipalities have a Where did we end up with? Way to double attach. Well, didn't we have just something? We didn't we didn't formalize anything, but didn't we have design? Didn't we sketch some things out ourselves?

That was me. I haven't done it yet. I'm very busy. Verify the client board rules and rags. What what we do has the only standards we have are on public property with um the Yeah. You know that. So we can ride a country. That's Yeah, that's all. Um and then you had a comment earlier about talking to BPW about on street parking. And I will Not a couple things. One is it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if the parking on the south side of the street all of it went to the north side of the street. It doesn't do anything on the south side of the street. And you mean it doesn't do anything. Nobody used it.

There's more businesses on the north side. I think it is. There's that building. Yeah. Either and there's some farther down. So, you know, three or four spaces on the south side of the street had to go away to create three or four spaces on the north side of the street. That would be a good trade. Then people would have to walk across the busy street with different spaces. But then the other issue is of course need to know how UPS and Ubers are going to right. which I think they can do easily now.

Other questions, comments? I'm curious about uh the the parking lot of with that acute corner of getting into the parking lot and then vehicles getting into especially the two parking spots on the west side of maneuvering that. um you guys thought about that and how that'll work.

Yeah. So, we do have the this is a relatively sharp angle to get into the barriia from the street, but we do have the you know the 24T width between spaces and the 24 foot width of the access from the street. So, so there should be room to maneuver into those parking spaces for a typical vehicle like a three point is what you're saying. Something like that potentially for that first um western spot if they're coming from the east side. It's it's really simple really. You just rent it out to folks at back to parking spots.

Yeah. Why have the steep angle on the say yet? There is a utility pole and a fire hydrant. Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Look at that right there. Dan and I went back and forth with probably different lot designs and I just Yeah. Okay. I don't want to have to relay all of the electrical lines along the I think that's a good call.

I wouldn't either. Good. [clears throat] Chris, what else? That's we talked about trash stuff. All right. Let me know if you have anything good. Okay. Um so good picture we there was a parking request for parking reduction. Um the one comment is where do where do employees park? So that means where do employees park long term?

Um well yeah I mean is that is that I think that realistically could be accommodated a shared shared street it just means a response that's all. Yeah, there's a provision in the downtown over district. they use the share part really really um mix these products you know so to encourage that Chris is right just as and there are certain parking areas are they're not all two-hour parking right just the road is the river street there are there are specific parking lots that are not two-hour parking so yeah they're pretty far away effectively too far well not for employees who are working a full day necessarily

yeah I think we have a slight limit distance. Um something to think about there's a both both kind of a regulatory side the two-hour parking which not a big not going to comment on that but um but you you know uh if we if for some reason there's a employee started parking in front of other businesses other businesses may start voicing opinions about it. So just something to consider right? Yes. Uh I'm wondering if the uh well my post office is is that too anyway just all right something to put some thought that's all

um I'll we need to open up for public comment so um I I will open up public comment um Bill can you check it looks like no one's online is there any public comment in the room tonight I think you're the only member of the public I think that's doing now I feel obligated. [laughter] Don't do 16 Country Lane. I would encourage you with your backside lighting to think about the lighting conditions as you transition to the roadway at night as a cyclist and matching those roadway lighting conditions for ease of visibility and detecting pedestrian automobiles. Thank you. Anything else?

Thank you. Good comment. I would call it the best comment of 2025. [laughter]

Um, all right. So, we need to get through peer review. Um, that'll be care offline. Um, do you guys have any questions for us? Anything that you have heartburn about? Okay. um continuence.

Yeah. What would be um what's your comfortable language? We need seven, but you're you know that you that would be the board, you know, would need it ahead of time, but the reviewer probably needed, you know, is that doable, do you think? So, you know, or you can you can we can schedule it if you're not you know, you need to get it to venue. So, I'm sure that Yeah, why don't we schedule it if the chair is okay with that? Okay. Yeah, I think we've started to address most of the comments we've gotten. So, it's just a matter of packaging and editing.

And if for some reason there was a problem, you could just request something. Is that okay? I think it's Yeah, I I've signed by May first week in December or first meeting in December. First meeting in December will be the May 9th.

Yeah, that's what I got to. All right, I'll make a motion to continue this hearing until December 9th at 7 p.m. Second. All in favor of the continuence, please raise your hand. It's 50 to continue. Thanks everyone for your time. Thank you. One question just as we have minutes.

No minutes. No, I got one. Do you have enough? I really don't complain. I'm cautioning. Is it about paint? No, it's about the powder metal road that we got like 600 grand. What we're going to get out of it, somebody's gonna Yeah,

we'll get a survey. Then somebody's just going to give us a design that paints a better flight plan. That's it. So what we really need is some of that money to go do here once innovative as a 5% stage man [laughter]

really all the great well that's that's about as far as the That's what the No, that's what the designer will do. Take that road to make it, you know, bike friendly. Okay. What do you think the percentage of surveys? I mean, you survey that's a big area. That's a long survey. Yeah. Order survey. But that's the most valuable part. Survey is going to be very helpful. Yeah. But there's still a lot left money even if it costs $150,000. Draw lines on a CAD drawing are really expensive. Yeah. But I know they're just going to [laughter]

What's your factor though? You should talk about this plan already. Powder metal. We got to figure out a way to he doesn't want it to be all take 20 grand so we can pay peer review or sharette ideas for the like interesting ideas concept like not just painting a bike land on each side and calling it a day. Well, why don't we talk about doing a technical grant? We get a we get a technical assistance grant 40 grand. I think they're due December 8th if you want to try one. It would be MAPC has one right now. I just got it. We also got but we don't want the MAPC people to do it and then We want [clears throat] somebody innovative.

Green could do it, but we don't want MATC and we don't want the designer. We want who? We want outside people to sit around and say, "What about this idea? What about that idea?" Then they can all figure out, well, no, not enough room. Oh, that might work. We'll have to look into that. think that's a big quarter and you could totally do that wrong and just be a waste of time for half a million bucks and taking into consideration our new zoning that allows for pedestrian uh multi-purpose pathways. Multi-purpose what?

That's what they want. They don't want it in the road. They want to I know. But my point is Yeah. innovative people. Uh well they're they don't exist. You need a [laughter] you need a cost person, you need a a active transportation designer and you need a constructibility person. I feel like you could just do all that. No. Why do you think but but

what we asked for were uh with the survey and the general plans, right? But that's the problem. The general plan will just be paint down the road. It's all they're going to do. They're like, "Oo, we're going to reset this curb line two feet." Bill is not impressed. No, I understand. I know. That's something I knew cuz it's like, well, that was in the contract. That's what the RFP said to do. So, you know, but it's hard without the survey. What we should do is get the survey in and then take a look at it and then get Exactly. what he's saying exactly what you're doing. Yeah. Right. You get the survey and you spend a a week thinking of ideas, then bring in some other people to

review those ideas and maybe they come up with Well, when we put it out there, I will touch base before we do anything on that. I think it's a good idea. Yeah. I just don't know if you can break it apart, get 15 or 20 grand just for an outside.

Well, maybe not, but maybe we can. We maybe we can. We're going to have a um RFP out there so we can maybe there is somebody that's going to respond that has somebody that's um innovative or well they're all going to say that I [snorts] know people are innovative and I know when they're sick and what believe me nothing else I can do that. No I it's a good point and I I I appreciate that and I think we could uh let's see who responds too. was that some of the companies um they're beating down my doors right now to be honest with you um at I just came back from the uh SEA conference and um because there's complete streets funding out there and there's some changes taking place um I'm trying to coordinate with DPW see what they want to do on it but we could probably well maybe come up with something through that But anyway, the point is that we're going to get some good responses from companies. A lot I know we're going to get some good ones and maybe we have somebody that we do feel could do the job. So, we just in the interview we ask them for it. We say, "Hey, let's, you know, we don't want just a stripe." You're right. A two-foot stripe is it and that's no plan.

You have to find us a hot dog. Got a hot dog. [laughter] We could show you doing it somewhere else. I talk about I was quoting him. That's what he always says. Hot dogs. Yes. Have you not heard him say that? I don't think I It is now. [laughter]

You say stuff like, "Well, you got to put the spoil in the butter churner." [laughter] What does that mean, Bill? No idea what he's talking about. You have any other updates for us?

Uh, no. I don't think I'll um I've gotten um No, no, really special. Um Steve is going to be out of the office for this for two weeks. So, I'm um well, we're going to be limited for a couple weeks with a couple things going. Um let's see. The um Bill had a a a good suggestion. Uh another option that we're working on, so I'm going to be meeting with them tomorrow to see if we can reconfigure. water problems aside, but we're talking about um um site appropriateness for some designs that we're fooling around with. So, I may have something cool coming up, but I'm not positive on it. Um uh we're meeting tomorrow, big dig water meeting.

Um we we need to decide if you're going to redo the ADU bylaws. Yeah. No, we're already working that. Okay. Oh, you mean read? Oh, I'm just I'm incorporating from the changes now. Yeah, we need to discuss that. And if we are going to bring it to town meeting in the spring,

right now I'm going to have the sub the subdivision regulations are, which I haven't really worked on build a look at. I need I've got them with DPW right now being reviewed. Um our subdivision rigs. Um, we're going to have some cleanup stuff, but uh hopefully nothing wild. Do we have anything scheduled next meeting? Yes, we have Mayor Crossing. Oh, we have the um uh they call it rotisserie. Rotary

rotisseria. or just the rotary restaurant. Use permit. The turnabout use permit. Just use permit. Not very excited. Is that it? Well, yeah. It'll be good. Mark's up. I'm out. Mark's up. I'm out. Oh, at the next one. Yeah. What are you doing? None of your business. [laughter] Is that Thanksgiving? It's Thanksgiving week. It's Thanksgiving week. Oh. Um, and you're not scheduling anything the week, the last meeting of December, right? The 23rd. Should I not? Don't schedule anything for the 23rd. I'll be in New Mexico.

Are you Are you driving or riding your bike? You're not going to fly, are you? [laughter] I'm supposed to be blind, so I'll probably tell the staff though. No, no, don't take any for that. I just got the government. Is that Is that what our date would be? Yeah, the 23rd, which feels a little bit House passes. I'm not I'm not I'm not here anymore. No one's going to be here. Christmas Eve jolly. I will give it a jolly It's only till January, right? It's just like you we have our meeting until January. There you go. Sign me up for that one. Great. Do it out loud. Totally. Totally. Tell the whole class. Uh motion to adjurnn.

I'll second that. All in favor to adjurnn, please. 50 to journey. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Senator, why does this place look like the old deck building? What? It's like the old deck building on Arthur Street. So, doesn't it look like a jail with the windows like I would say jail? Yeah. Like what is that? Is that the old [clears throat] deck building where basket is now? No. That was exactly like that. Is that Is it modern? I don't I don't know if I remember as ugly as it concrete with these little slits like gun ports. This like it seems to like it. Well, I mean it is freaking I don't know what else you could do. I'm amazed they could do that.

I mean I don't and I don't police building windows. It does look like I don't think we need another brick building another one. Well, no thanks. All right. Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Happy Thanksgiving. I don't want vinyl side. All right.

It's not expensive enough to build stuff anyways. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Can I steal this pen? Can you build it? Yes. Hi, Chris. You're out next week, right? Yep. Next meeting. Next meeting. I Yeah. It's still true. said next week.