Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Hello. How's the weather?

these clocks are not the same we go up by that one get started all right i'm showing that it is five o'clock so we can call the board of review to order um to do our role we have alder anderson uh benzinger and cummings and myself as city clerk so we have four members present which does a quorum make we also have city assessor luke here as well as city attorney nitch to offer us legal guidance along the way. First thing on the agenda after roll would be to verify notice of meeting publication. This meeting was published according to state statute in the Herald Times Reporter. And we do need to elect a chair and vice chair for this meeting. So I would welcome nominations for chair of Board of Review.

I'll nominate Alder Cummings.

Thank you. Do we need a second for that?

Let's just take nominations.

Okay, any other nominations? Seeing none, I would ask for a motion to close nominations and request a unanimous ballot.

Make the motion. Second. Second.

All right, we have a motion and a second. There's no discussion on this, so all those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, so we have our chair as Alder Cummings. Then we'll do the same procedure to elect a vice chair. So I would look for nominations for vice chair.

I'm gonna name Alder Benzinger. Second.

Are there any other nominations for vice chair? Seeing that, I would look for a motion to close nominations and cast a unanimous ballot for Alder Benzinger as vice chair.

I'll make that nomination. Second. Or motion, sorry.

All right, we have a motion and a second. There's no discussion on this, so all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, we have a vice chair, and then Alder Cummings, you can take it away from here as chair for the meeting.

All right, with that, I will kick it off to Attorney Nitsch. Hold on, I gotta pull up this. Yeah, I gotta get the agenda, sorry.

Well, I appreciate that.

We are on number five.

All right.

I have the password of death here, so I gotta figure that out.

All right. We need to verify that members have the mandatory training requirements.

As a member of the Board of Review, I completed the training requirement on May 11th and filed that affidavit with the Department of Revenue.

Okay, that is done then. Next, we need to verify that the city has an ordinance for the confidentiality of income and expense information provided to the assessor under state law, Wisconsin Statute 70.47, subsection 7, subsection Alpha Foxtrot, Municipal Code 23.140. Okay.

I do have that portion of the code attached. We do have that ordinance of confidentiality of income and expense. It is Manitowoc Municipal Code 23.140.

Okay, then we got to do the approval of minutes. So I'll be looking for a motion for the approval of minutes. So moved. Second. Okay, any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Passes unanimously there. Next, city attorney reviews roles and duties of members of the board of review and procedures to be followed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll start with the role of the attorney. The role of the attorney is to act as counsel to the board of review and the city. I cannot act as counsel to the assessor. I am to advise the board on legal matters. The hearing is held by the board of review pursuant to WSSTAT section 70.47. The board determines from evidence whether the assessor's valuation is correct. It may raise or lower the assessment based on testimony, but the board is to presume the assessor's evaluation is correct. The property owner has the burden of proving the assessment is incorrect. Witnesses are sworn and exhibits are marked, but the rules of evidence do not apply. This proceeding shall be recorded in open session. As far as hearing procedure, the clerk will swear in the property owner and city assessor. The property owner is heard first and may be represented by council. Property owner may present witnesses, oral testimony, or exhibits. The board and the assessor may question the property owner and witnesses. The assessor is then given the opportunity to be heard and present evidence in support of assessment. The assessor may present witnesses, oral testimony, or exhibits. The owner and board may question the assessor and his witnesses. The property owner may then respond and the assessor may cross-examine the property owner. The board may choose to call and examine witnesses on its own motion. The property owner and assessor may present closing arguments. The board will then deliberate. The board shall presume the assessor's valuation is correct. Presumption may be rebutted by a showing from the owner that the valuation is incorrect pursuant to a stat 70.47 subsection eight, subsection I. If the board votes to accept the assessment, no explanation is required. But if the board votes to raise or lower the assessment, they must explain their findings and conclusions. The board is required to state the correct assessment on the record and that the assessment is reasonable in light of relevant evidence received by the board. Then we have a notice of determination. The board gives the owner notice and appeal rights. The appeals process, there are three methods. There's an action for certiorari to the circuit court under WSSTAT section 70.85. There's a possibility for administrative review by the State Department of Revenue and claims for excessive assessment under 74.37. Each method has a statutory process which must be followed. And that is it.

Thank you. Thank you. Next we'll have the annual assessment report by the assessor, current level of assessment and the review of uniform standards regulating assessors.

So I would request, if we could, let's move line item nine after 21, and then I will pass out the annual report at that time.

Copy that, you'll do that at 21.

After 21.

Okay. Then we'll move on to 10, is receipt of the assessment roll by the clerk from the assessor.

10 and 11 are kind of happening at the same time as we have the role here and they're available for all of us along with the sworn statements.

Okay, so 10 and 11 are crossed off. Now we're going to 12, review the assessment role and perform statutory duties, which is examine the role, correct description or calculation errors, add omitted property, and eliminate double assessed property.

So this would be the opportunity for anyone to, any of us to review the role. And if we notice any errors or things like that, this can happen anytime during the two hours that we're meeting this evening. So it may behoove parties present to move along until we get to the hearing portion. And then if there's opportunity to review the role after.

Okay. And we're gonna, number 13, certify any corrections of error under statute, state statute 70.43.

There was none.

There was none. And we'll go to 14, verify with the assessor that the open book changes are included in the assessment roll.

Yes.

And we're going to go to 15, allow taxpayers to examine the assessment data.

much like item number 12 this is something that's just available and open throughout the two hours that we're meeting so if any other taxpayers or property owners come in and want to review the role they certainly would have the opportunity to do so sounds good then we're going to 16 review waivers of the required 48-hour notice of intent to file an objection when there is good cause We did get one in. It came to Luke yesterday. There was an issue with, I didn't get it via email until today. We received a request from a property owner who's, the reason that they, they're not going to be here in person. They've requested, and we'll get to that, to provide their testimony by sworn written statement. The reason that they're, they were not able to meet the 48-hour notice is, that they had a hard time connecting via phone with the assessor prior to that. They had said that they had tried and waited three weeks, which was putting them into the 48-hour time. So it would be the board's decision to grant this waiver or not. So do we make that decision now?

Yeah. I would say if they have it in, we grant it. You guys got any issues on that?

What are the implications of granting it versus not?

So granting it would just allow us to review what they submitted. They will get to request for testify by telephone or sworn written statement. This property owner will not be here in person, so they will not be having a hearing like the property owner that did meet the 48 hour notice. They provided written documentation that we can then choose to review and make a determination on.

as well so if we did not grant the waiver that would be the end of this person's appeal essentially right no problem granting it yeah i mean we need a motion for that yeah sure i'll make it so motion to grant then we have a second yep second second okay any discussion all those in favor all right any opposed no okay

Okay. That's the only request for a waiver of the 48-hour notice that I have.

Okay. All right. Then we're going to review requests for board of review hearing allowing property owner to appeal directly to circuit court.

We did not receive any. Okay.

Then we're gonna go to 18, review request to testify by telephone or submit sworn written statement, subpoena requests, and act on any other legally allowed border review matters.

So the waiver that we just granted, they did provide a request to testify by sworn written statement and their objection form. I don't, this is what we have. I don't believe that this would, They haven't provided anything further. I did call this property owner before this meeting to ask if they were planning to provide any additional written testimony, and they said, nope, this is what they're providing. So it would be, I don't know if we're allowed to accept that.

This does not meet any kind of standard that I'm aware of. We can't swear them in. So it's one thing to accept a waiver. It's another where we don't have any testimony. Now, that being said, the rules of evidence don't apply. And if you want to look at it, you can look at it. But the issue is you have to have a reasonable basis burden of proof is on the objector and you have to have a reasonable basis to conclude that the assessor's information is incorrect and with no sworn testimony it is my opinion there's no evidence that would rise to that level you just don't have anything that's verifiable so you really can't do it you can look at it if you want but i it just seems like my advice is that you cannot you wouldn't be able to overturn his objection so that's where we sit So now it's just the pleasure of the board based on the advice, or not based on the advice. You can reject the advice as well.

Would everybody like a copy of what the property owner submitted to review?

Yeah, I mean, just take a look at it.

Yeah, I have two copies. Here, I can go make another one.

It won't take long to look at it, I'm sure.

I just want to pass it to Audrey. Sure.

You've seen this, Luke?

And this was just, this was all the information that the, okay.

So once again, the only evidence you can consider is sworn testimony.

Yeah, after reviewing that evidence on there, going under the state statute dictates that we have to have the, presume the assessor's assessment is correct, going into it unless obviously something overwhelmingly says not for, you know, and to look into it. Based off of this, there is nothing that would present any sort of evidence to go and contradict that. what an assessor had, all it does is ask a question and that's it. So there's no evidence, in my opinion, that would overturn that assumption that we're required to have via state statute.

I agree. There's no motion to deny.

OK. So I think because we don't have this worn written testimony, we don't need a motion to not consider. I think we can just move on.

Okay. Sounds good. All right. Then we're going to go to 19, act on any other legally allowed or required BOR matters.

I'm not aware of any at this time.

Okay. What is BOR? Oh, Board of Review. Oh, okay. There we go. 20, review any notices of intents to file objection.

So we just have the one, which is what we will be hearing the objection to on the next item.

Okay, then we're gonna go to 21, hear objections to assessments. And that would be 25-0515, border review hearing for Laura Ruel. 1602 New York Avenue.

Okay. You can come up.

You can come up, yep.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay, so we have property of, or the objection of Laura Ruel at 1602 New York Avenue for that same property in question. Parcel ID for that property is 705-000-090. This is a residential property. The 2026 assessed value for the land is $18,500. Improvements, $134,000 for a total 2026 assessed value of $152,500. And then I can swear them all in. The clerk swears in the... So I can swear, do the assessor at the same time, right?

Yes. Okay.

Everybody who will be providing testimony on this matter, please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth and nothing but the truth in offering this testimony, so help you God?

I do. I do. Okay.

and then just for that objection do you have that objection form with you yep yep it was missing your signature so we'll have you file that one with the board today do you need a pen Okay, and then, sorry to jump around, for everyone who was just sworn in, could you just state your name and address for the record, please?

Laura Ruel, 1602 New York Avenue.

Richard Janko, 1602 New York Avenue. Thank you.

Luke Mack, Assessor for the City of Manitowoc.

Thank you.

So the objector? You get to go first. You present your case first. You've been sworn in. And now you can provide testimony. You may call witnesses, however you want to go about this. But again, their presumption, just as a reminder, they presume that the assessor's assessment is correct. You've got to present evidence, testimony, contrary to that, to support your position.

Okay. So we believe that the home is only worth about $100,000 due to the amount of work that this home needs. When I purchased the home, I was unaware of... all the damage of all the um improvements that it would need even to get it to be like somewhat you know functionable um when we were reading the disclosure of the home there were so many things that were not disclosed when we bought it so therefore after we were in it we found out that there was a lot wrong with the home um Inside of the home, there are ceilings that collapsed about a month after we moved in due to a ceiling due to the roof leaking, which we were unaware of. there were a lot of things that were covered up by the previous owners that were not disclosed in our disclosure we have a lot of electrical issues in the home we have plumbing issues in the home we obviously have a lot of damages that we need to fix up in the home due to the ceiling collapsing yeah I'm sorry from the rough we weren't even when my like I would say about two days before we purchased the home that was when they were trying to see like how old the roof was, and they could not get any numbers on it. I had a hard time getting insurance for the home due to that. Two days prior to purchasing and closing on it, they did find an insurance company that would cover me, but that home is not worth I mean, if I were to sell this home, there's no way that I would be able to get close to what it's assessed at due to all the issues that are wrong with the home that we're trying to fix up right now. We didn't walk into this home as saying, you know what, we're going to flip this place and resell it. We bought it as a home to live in, and it has given us, I mean, It's nothing but issues after issues after issues with this home. So I don't believe that this home is even worth $152,000 as it stands. I mean, maybe 10 years down the road when we have all the issues worked out of it, it will be. But as it stands right now, that home is not worth $152,000.

Well, another thing, too, when we were here last time, but I forgot what the meeting was called a couple weeks ago.

with the assessor where we come in and just talk to, I think, an assessor.

We didn't get to meet Luca. but the guy he was with, and I asked him straight off, I said, do you guys just drive by the houses and presume they're worth this much? And he said, yeah. I said, they don't enter the homes.

I mean, there are... Granted, there are nicer homes in that area. There's a lot of really nice homes in that area. But unfortunately, my home is not one of those nicer homes. It's... It needs a lot of work, and the house needs a lot of work. We did remove an improvement that we made, well, somewhat of an improvement that we made was when, prior to moving in, we did have some trees removed. But I can probably see, but the land, We can't even grow grass in our backyard. We have to literally redo the whole entire backyard because we can't grow grass. We've tried for the last year and a half to get some grass to even grow, but due to, I believe it's clay and sand in that backyard, we can't grow anything. And the more that we did and dug, it was like... The whole backyard, wherever we dug anything up, we were literally digging up garbage. We were digging up old pottery, just garbage, and it was a disaster.

How bad is it? We actually got an attorney to take the case out of Appleton from Reveille Law for all non-disclosure and everything. So that's in progress now. Just the guy that did... They went in, they hired, we even looked, when they tried to do the electric, you came down to the building inspector, there was no permits. So they came in after. There's no permits pulled for any of the electrical work? The inspector knew, I guess the home sat vacant from what they said, the city said, for I think a year or more, so they had to get a permit to get the electric turned on. So the inspector approved it. So sometime after, these guys took the house over from, I guess Mr. Bilotti who passed away, So when you moved in, somewhere before we moved in, they hired someone under, wasn't legal. They put this electrical box in there and there's no permits on it. When I asked this building inspector about it too, I said, well, do you have to have a permit for that? Because I didn't know. He said, yeah. So there was no permits for anything they did in Dallas. I think that was just for the breaker for the kitchen. But there was no disclosure on nothing. And ever since we'd been there, the roof, it took us a while to get money put down for the roof because we just put the money down on the house. And we didn't know right away it was leaking until we had contractors come out. So the water damage, it was already done, like a lot of it, or some of it, but it started getting worse when we moved in. So almost every room in the house, basement, closets, to the living room. It's plaster. And they came in, they painted it. I have pictures. They just painted everything to cover it up. I wouldn't say flipped it, because I guess they owned it for about six years or so. So I wouldn't really say they flipped it, but they covered everything up before we moved in. And she was going to have an American family, her insurance company. I didn't really want to move in at that point. I didn't really look at the house too much, but Because all trees in the yard. So she was going to have an American family. All these real estate agents now say, don't get an inspection. Everyone will tell you, don't get an inspection. It's going to kill the deal. And when I asked why, they said, because if you don't take this house at that price, that somebody else will. So she had American family insurance at the time. They said they were going to go through there and pick everything out. We looked at a house prior to that, too, and they said the same thing. Well, I don't know what happened. They kept putting off this rate, guaranteed rate. mortgage. They kept putting it off. I think they knew. They wouldn't give her a date on the roof. The American family wanted to know when the roof was last replaced. So, waiting, waiting, waiting, couldn't give her a date, and they kind of rushed her. That's part of the reason why I got the attorney to see about mortgage fraud. They talked her into going with their insurance company to push it through, kind of scared her into closing. We need to get this done before closing. She didn't really know. So, Even when they came out, their insurance company, I don't know what the deal is with them. Even the lawyer can't figure it out why the insurance company didn't look at the place before closing. He said the attorney on a remit law said you would think they want to protect their investment. That's what I thought. So when they, even their insurance company, I think it was Pennsylvania or something, they came out and looked at the roof. We got them all just right a heck of it after we moved in. And he's trying to say there was nothing wrong. I said, see the water damage? You see the El Paso just fell down, you know, and so we had contractors come on it. I remember when we could see the roof was bad and all the damage it caused.

We had a few contractors come in to look at the roof just because we were looking at obviously getting the best deal that we could to replace the roof, you know, but... I can honestly say that being a first-time homebuyer, if I would have known what I was getting myself into when I bought the house, I would not have purchased this particular home at all just because I can't. I can't get ahead right now with it being assessed as much as it is and all the work that has to go into it. I would not have purchased this home. I was, you know, we looked at the disclosure and we're like, well, you know what, there's really not all that much wrong with it. But when we got into it, it was like the money pit. I'm not even joking. It's like the money pit. It's like we get one thing fixed and then a hundred other things are going wrong. I mean, as it stands right now, we still have, which I wasn't even aware of, we still have knob and tube problems. wiring in that home i'm not even joking it was like and one and we found that out through one of the contractors that came through because i asked him i said hey you want me to turn this light on for you in the way that the switches he goes that is odd he goes that's nothing too and i'm like and we had um smoky barber come out and they found like

code violations, and they gave us estimates just on different things that try to update the house.

I think their estimate was set at about $45,000.

That was for the house, so depending on what we wanted done, it was anywhere from, I think, $10,000 or $15,000 to $45,000, which they didn't disclose that either. Which we're doing, obviously. There was no reason that we should have assumed the house needed electric.

In increments, just because of the high cost of everything.

They had to disclose that, even with the wiring they did in the house. And then we had a contractor come out yesterday. We have an estimate for it was 40 to 50,000 without showing them everything. Like you can see the basement where the water came through. There was a way to get out of this. I know we got the attorney now, but we only met with him one time. He was just waiting to see what we had for estimates. He wanted us to come out and pull the permits on the house to see just what they did, which was there's no permits for anything. So right now, we're just waiting on Renly Law and to see what the next step is. But if there's a way to get out of this, we would do it in a second. It's so much work. That's about, I think, how we go. I mean, we got the estimate here, the pictures and everything.

If you would like the committee to consider that, we should share that. The pictures? Whatever you would like the committee to consider. OK.

Yeah, you can bring them up.

Take turns looking at them.

Does that meet? We can't stick anything into a computer. We can email it. Do they email?

I can email it.

I mean, you could email it to the city, and we could print those out. That would be fine. Otherwise, it just depends on what you want the board to see. So I don't, just to clarify, I'm sorry if I'm taken over here, but I don't vote. I'm sort of not even the referee. I'm the advisor. These are the board members. And whatever you want them to see to consider your appeal, just however you want to do it. We can offer email, or we can offer you handing the phone around. It's just up to you. Yeah, I get it. All right, yeah, go ahead. We're in no hurry. We have a little bit of time.

So you can see here, this is the drop ceiling, the giant hole in the kitchen. That's right above the stove, too. This is the drop ceiling they put in to cover it, which we didn't know, and I don't even know if an inspector would have caught that. Sidewalk, the roof, just You can see how they spackled. The contractor pointed out yesterday, we didn't really know. It looked like the walls were just mudded and they painted over everything. And the contractor said, yeah, they covered up the rest of the cracking. You can see how they just painted over the outlets where they covered everything. And that's like every room. It's all cracking from the water damage. Every closet, the bedrooms, they found it yesterday, the drop ceiling in my room. This is the bathroom ceiling that came down, the plaster. First couple weeks we were there, and you can see the water damage, like on the ceiling. Contractors circled them. There's spots I knew we could see the water damage from the roof. There's so much stuff. Yeah, we opened that after, you know, so that's how they left this. And then one of the things we showed the attorney, he said, I'll bet that it would never pass inspection.

So I think, excuse me, I'm sorry, can we just do one at a time? By all means, but for purposes. More water damage. It's okay. Just everything to cover it up.

Yeah, it was a mess. And then I have some of my phone, too. Oh, the garage roof too, that leaks. They didn't disclose that either. The shingling, and you can see the nails popping up now for whatever they did. That was disclosed. So the section of the garage, water just all over the ceiling. I don't know how long that's going to last. So I had a guy look at it yesterday too. Just... That's like a giant nightmare. They painted over the vents. And that's when I kind of knew when I was after I moved in, I was looking at everything and realized what they did. So there's no way if we sold the house, there's even with the SMR, there's no way we could get 152 or whatever it is right now.

So have you shown the photos to this member of the board? Yes. Yeah, why don't you take that and move it down to the next one.

You don't have to show everybody. Sure.

So this is the drop ceiling that they put in the kitchen. We didn't think anything until we started seeing the leaks coming through. And then I forgot who it was, Kraft, I think. I used to be at the craft roofing over in uptown, but anyway, they came out and you can see like This is what they did to the kitchen. They put that drop ceiling in to cover that. They had someone try to come through, I guess, under the table and try to fix a leak, which used PVC instead of actually fixing the leak. So it had a leak. The hole is still there. They cut through the floor, put the drop ceiling down just to cover it up. Just one of the things they didn't disclose. the fuse box and the old wiring in the basement they left. I don't know what this is. That's why the attorney said there's no way to pass an inspection. Just in the basement, you can see the water damage where it leaked through. I don't know if it's from the kitchen or from the roof in the basement, what happened. It Oh, it's got to be fixed. This is the bathroom ceiling. This is when we first knew something was wrong. She called me at work, and the plaster had come down from, she said, well, I could get one of her family members to fix it. I said, no. I said, let me look at it. I said, because, and that's when I noticed, you could see it was water. And we showed their insurance company that they kind of pushed on her to get it. They're like, oh, I didn't see anything.

I'm not seeing any water damage.

So it's so weird with them. This is where you can see they just were in a hurry. They painted over everything. So even if someone would have came out into the house and appraised it, unless they, if they knew what they were doing, yeah, they probably could have picked that out. But more or less, they painted over. I've got to get back into the other side. These are just some of them. Just all buckled in now since we've been there from the water. I don't know where it's coming from. Buckled up. So it was included in the estimate we had got yesterday. This is so much stuff. This is some of the plaster, I guess, where they, we were wondering why they left it like that. And the contractor yesterday said they spackled over the water damage, so you couldn't see it. And they did the same thing to the living room ceiling. They just painted over everything. But this is spackled. I said, why would they leave it like that? It's weird. So I didn't really think, you know, these walls would have the same problem. They said they're probably cracking. They painted over the vents. They just covered everything up. These are some of the closets where it's starting to break, too. The plaster's coming down. So almost every room in the house has got to be replastered. But he said if he would just start, like, if it was just the ceiling, he said the walls are going to start to break, too, because of the plaster. That's why the SMO is so high. This is one of the closets, too. You can see it all cracking. And then her room, which I have a picture of, too. This is the bathroom again. That was the one we first noticed it. These are the fuse boxes. But when we opened it, you could see wires everywhere. They just, one's an old fuse box and there's wires above it. I don't know what they're for, they're dangling. That's what Smokin' Barbera picked out. So they left the old one in and there's wires dangling here and above it going to we don't know what. So Smokin' Barbera. at the email part of the basement where the water was coming through in the basement. We don't know if that's from the pipes in the kitchen or from the roof or what it was. This all started happening after we got the place. Every time we turn around, it's something. You can see the water damage in the basement where it was leaking through. I don't know what that is either. Then Let's see, then just the other day, we were in the living room, and I had a big crash. I was like, what the heck was that? So something knocked over my dresser. So I went upstairs, and she's like, oh, no. And a huge chunk of plaster came down from her room. It was in her bedroom where it came down the other day. So that's when he was saying that if he were to start just ripping all the stuff, cutting those ceilings out, more likely the walls are going to crumble and he'd have to redo just about every room in the house. And I didn't look at my room either. There's a dropped ceiling in there too. I said, I was always wondering why they put it in there. I said, you think there's something to cover up in here? He said, yeah. We didn't rip it apart or take the tiles out or nothing yet. I'm afraid to know. And then he was looking at the windows too. He said those all had to be replaced.

Those are just some of the pictures, a lot of the damage that we have. We do all have copies of this one.

The photos that you showed us, would you please email them to me? Okay. And I know, Laura, I gave you my card that my email address is in?

Yes.

Do you still have that?

It's probably... I can get you another one. Yeah, I know one. Okay. Yes, please.

Do you have anything else that you'd like to present the board with or is that it?

That's pretty much about it that I would really have.

Okay.

I think that's all.

Now the assessor has the right to ask questions.

Thank you. So first question, you said you've purchased it recently a couple times. What did you purchase it for?

$157,000.

Okay. And then you also said with all this damage from the roof, when did this first start happening?

A month after we moved in.

Can you give me a month and a year?

It would have approximately August of 24th.

would you say since then it's gotten progressively worse or it was pretty bad in 2024?

It was bad in 2024. When we, right after we moved in about, like I said, about a month after we moved in, that's when we started having a bunch of issues with the home.

Okay. when you guys purchased the home, was there anything on the listing that indicated that the electrical was updated?

No.

Okay. Um, did you or a representative attend the 2025 open book or board review?

No.

Okay. That's all the questions I have.

Okay. Now we may ask questions.

I've never been on this board review. This is my first time on here. You were saying that the assessor, you said that you asked the question, did they just drive by and assess the home visually from the street upon driving by or walking by or from pictures? Is that how it happens? I mean, I know that's quite a large undertaking to go through every single house, but Is that how the majorities are assessed?

Board Member Anderson, these are questions for the objective.

Oh. You will have an opportunity to question. My bad. Sorry. I didn't realize that.

I'm sorry. You will have a question to ask questions of the assessor after the assessor presents his case. My bad. Yep. No, that's fine. Thank you.

So for all the damage that was on there, do you have homeowner's insurance where that covers that?

We tried to get them to cover even, because we called. I have that home warranty also, and we tried calling them, and it would not cover it.

We did. Like I said, we did. After we started seeing this stuff, like with the roof and the water damage, they weren't doing anything. So we went back to American Family. They were pretty much pushed on her by the rate mortgage. And what I've seen with them too, and I told the attorney out in Appleton that they have a lot of lawsuits on them. i think this might be why no sorry we can't get anybody covered really anything in the house and i i think they were saying like he tried to say that the roof is pre-existing well yeah update you know from the rate mortgage i think it's pennsylvania or whatever it's called the home warranty people said that they didn't believe that it was caused i think like by water damage but you can clearly see that

after we got the roofers in there and stuff because they were looking on the inside they even like circled pictures and took pictures of it showing where the water damage was yeah we tried to cover all this stuff they didn't even like the refrigerator that was a big house it was like a smart fridge so it's not something it was just

Okay, I was just curious. So from the questions that were asked already, so in 2024, you bought it for 157,000. What did you say the current assessment was at?

152.

So it went down from what you bought it. Yeah. Okay.

152,500. 500, okay.

And if I remember from the testimony in the initial part, you did not get a home inspection or anything like that prior to. Did you walk through it prior to?

I did.

Okay. That's the only questions I have.

Once the board's done, can I ask one more question? Sure.

Yep. Do you guys have any other questions?

I do not. Mackenzie?

I do not. Thank you.

I do not. So you do have a mortgage on this property? Yes. Did they do an appraisal on the property when you acquired it?

I don't believe so.

Okay. That's all I have.

I'm sorry, I just never I bought two houses in my life and each time I had it was required to get an appraisal so that's why that's about a question like Surprised that's the weird thing.

We can't figure out how That's what the attorney said, too. He said You would think that they want to protect their investment They're pushing their insurance company We had an American family come through there, and they refused to give her a date on the roof. So they kind of scared her and pushed her, and I wish I'd have been there more on the house. I said, there's so many trees in the yard for my dogs. But the attorney can't figure it out either. Why wouldn't you want to send an inspector or someone to do an appraisal on the house to protect themselves? Because we bail, they're going to get stuck with it. So he can't figure that out.

I guess I always assumed that was a standard home buying thing.

I can't figure it out either. I asked the attorney that right now.

Okay. Do you have any other questions? Nope. Do you guys have any other questions?

No. Now we'd ask for the... The assessor has the opportunity to present his case.

Okay.

So here's the property record report I put together for today's meeting. Um, you know, obviously I asked the questions to the owners just because, you know, looking at this property, the first thing I'll state, in regards to the property, it is an older property, right? It's over a hundred years old. So, um, you know, there are going to be some of these issues that happen with older homes in regards to the electric, right? That's why I asked the question, was it disclosed that it was updated? Because if that were the case and they bought it for one 57, assuming that the electrical was updated, that influenced their mindset at the time to pay one 57, right? So, So kind of going through the report here, just going through it shows the property record report data on the subject property is page, Um, it's numbered on the bottom one through three. Um, what's the photo? We did visit the property on February 11th, 2025 as part of the revaluation. Um, our contract with the city was an exterior revaluation. No one was home at the time of visit. That's why you see the tag on the door in the picture. We left the tag. Um, so we know we did not get through this house as part of the revaluation. Um, The data on the property, the sketch is on that page as well. Got a map of just kind of where it is in the city. And then we do have some comps here. And if you look at a lot of these comps, these are older properties in the neighborhood. Compared to the subject property, the indicated value actually shows about 187.5. So looking at that, that tells me that the assumption is that they paid 157. There was assumed issues or there was something not as nice in this home as other homes in the area that have sold for a higher value. I mean, I feel for the property owners. I think it's horrible what they're going through because I saw some of the bids for the electrical Um, I think it was upwards, I think total like 45, $46,000 if they did everything in the bid. Um, I think the contractor said they didn't have to do everything, but if they wanted everything done, they kind of broke it out. But, um, you know, nobody wants to buy a property and stick 45,000 into it. It comes down to a question though. Do you have to stick 45,000 into it? You know, if the electric works great. I mean, obviously if something was done improperly, not up to code, um, you know, they may or may not have to fix it. I don't know if they fixed those issues yet or not, or, or have, um, needed to fix them. Um, under my assumption is I don't think that they need to, I don't think this home has been deemed uninhabitable because of the electric. So, um, I did not make an adjustment for a cost to cure because I don't think that, you know, in a hundred year old home, you know, if you do a $45,000 electrical update, you're not going to sell it for 150,000, you know? So, um, you know, ask me any questions in regards to anything I presented. Um, I do believe I was fair. I did. I, I asked about last year's open book and board review because last year's assessment wasn't one 71 five. Um, I did lower it this year. Um, the property was reached out, I believe either earlier this year and the last year after the board review process, Ask us to take a look at it. I did. I did lower it to the 152.5 for this year. Now we can ask questions to the assessor.

He's finished, yeah.

Okay, now we can ask questions to the assessor.

I apologize for jumping out ahead.

Hold on, hold on. Before we do, you guys can ask questions to the assessor.

My intention is that when you buy a property, you assume the electrical works, right? So when I asked the question in regards to... I didn't want them to mislead you into paying more money because they updated the electrical, because that would cause someone to pay more money, right? Because then it saves them $45,000, right? So that was not the case here. That's the only thing I wanted to make the board aware of.

They did find code violations, and that's on the email. And it does blow fuses. If you run more than two or three things in a house, it'll blow fuses. So we don't know what we have to get to stop doing that. They were out one time. And we're in the middle of everything right now with a lawyer and trying to come up with money for this and that.

And I don't mean to interrupt. I just want to make sure that we sort of follow the rules. Again, this isn't a trial. It's just we sort of follow the rules. You'll have an opportunity next to offer testimony after. There's sort of like a. back and forth but right now you're just asking questions you're not providing any evidence so anything you say here evidentiary wise they can't consider okay so you got to wait through your turn again but that's fine make a note of it you can do that then questions though are welcome

Okay, now we can ask the assessor.

No, I was just going to say, I'm sorry for jumping out ahead. My first time on a board review, but you answered my question with the paperwork and what you said. Thank you. I have no more questions. My question was answered.

Okay. Do you have any questions?

You mentioned the concept of a cost to cure or a credit for a cost to cure. Is that your... I'm assuming that's the recourse that you have to make an adjustment for... damages or things that are needing to be cured?

So it's a cost to cure. Usually a lot of times the most common thing is when you have structural foundation issues that need to immediately be fixed before the house shifts and your walls all crack. That's typical cost to cure. Now, obviously if the home was deemed inhabitable until they replaced the electric, that would be a cost to cure, right? Because, they can't live in that home, in that dwelling, without the electrical being updated. So how much would it cost to get it back up to where it needed to be? Now, the one thing that was mentioned was code violations. Codes change throughout the years, building codes. So this is a 106-year-old home. There are going to be code violations because they've just improved them throughout the years. So the cost to cure is usually for something that would make a property basically usable again to the function where it was before. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mackenzie.

Thank you. So the grades listed as C and the other comps that you used were C's or C-, what would push a property to be downgraded further? And what does that, I don't know what the grade impacts assessed value.

The grade factor is just basically a quality of construction. C is average, an average home built for that age. You know, usually older homes are usually C's to C minuses. Once you get into some of those larger historical homes, that's when the grades would be a little higher. It's more of a quality thing, not a condition.

Thank you.

Then you did lower its from the 2025 value to the 152 now. What went into that lowering of it, or what was the decision behind that?

um well one you know the owners they filled out a request for review and explained some of the situations that they had and um you know they were at 171 when we did the reval you know the other sales inflated value right so we were a little bit higher in this case i did uh kind of you know when they presented to me what they've gone through you know and what kind of issues are having i did think that, you know, they should be lowered compared to some of these other homes just because of some of the issues that they've endured after the sale. Um, I don't think, you know, cause you know, obviously the sale was two years ago. Market is still, the values are inflating, right? So, um, I did take that into consideration as well. So, um, we just kind of bumped the grade down or the condition down a little bit for this one. Um, and brought it down to where I thought was more reasonable value for what they have. Okay.

Any other questions?

I don't have any more questions. So now... the objector has the chance to basically rebut. So now you have another opportunity to speak evidence, provide testimony, rebutting what the assessor has testified to, if you so choose.

So here's my question. Yeah, I understand, like, everything's going up. But when you guys dropped it to 152.5, whatever it is.

152.5.

That was before we had sent any pictures, any... And I'm not saying we're going to stick $45,000 into the house. Obviously, not magicians who can't just pull that money out. And that's something we just want to get up to where it should be, whatever that's going to cost. And that was before any of the pictures, any of the damages. That was just before we filled out, before we even came here last time to meet with them. But we didn't get a chance to talk to Luke, the guy that he works with. So your assessment of that was... before we sent anything. And I understand the house is 100 years old, but had they disclosed this stuff, they should have. They wouldn't have gotten it. And the water damage is not just from, or the damage isn't from the shifting, it's water damage that should have been disclosed from the roof. So yeah, houses are gonna shift, but the contract is all set. It's all water damage of what they painted or everything. So there's no way, if you try to sell it right now, I can't see it getting, that estimate we had yesterday, it was 40 to 50,000 minus whatever you're gonna put for, and I'm not saying we're gonna spend $100,000 on a house. We gotta come up with the money first. whatever we have to do to get someone to buy it, it's still going to be a ton of money.

There's no way that we're going to get the money. If we would sell the house, I don't believe that we would be able to sell it for what I bought it for with the improvements like the new roof right now. You know, even after getting a new roof on and stuff, that's not, there's no way I'm going to get anywhere. I'm not going to even be able to break even at this point.

Until we get a lot of the stuff fixed.

Until we put more money into it. And if we can get that down, property tax and everything down, we could maybe afford to do more to fix it up, to make it work. So again, you're not asking a question.

You're providing evidence. Yeah, I just kind of want to... clear up on my end. I understand it's an old house and it's going to shift, but there shouldn't be any water damage to it. We would have never got the points.

OK. Assessor, you have the right to now question back.

I don't really have much to add. The only thing I would say is he did mention he did come into open book this year, which he did. When asked at the open book, and this was the 19th of May, it was asked, what is the opinion of value? At that time, his opinion was 120. And today, their opinion is 100. So that's quite a difference in two weeks.

Okay. Do you have any questions?

No.

Okay.

Now we have... If you have anything on the rebuttal.

Okay.

So now we ask questions to them if we have any.

To the objector. If you have any questions for the objector...

I just have one last question. I saw one that you said it's currently this house. You bought it. That's under litigation right now with an attorney?

Yes, with Remley Law in Neenah, Wisconsin.

Aiming for what outcome?

Prepare for damages if we can get them.

Just non-disclosure. Non-disclosure, the lawsuit. If more things would have been in the disclosure when I bought it, I probably would not have bought it because everything that wasn't in that disclosure is costly to fix.

Through litigation, you're wanting someone to do the repairs or you're looking through litigation to get out of the deal?

We are, well, we're looking at... We don't know right now.

We only met with them one time.

So we're going to take, obviously, the advice from the attorney.

I think it was about a weekend.

You know, what we should be...

doing at that point it was about a week and a half ago we actually sat down with the attorney and we're just presenting you know everything we had in our ad um so we don't know what's gonna happen yet i just got an email today about the retainer i gotta send them that today i didn't because i didn't know he actually took the case that day but apparently they did so we don't know anything what's coming next we don't know what we can do i don't think there's a way out of it i don't know but at least get damages repaired for non-disclosure, and I brought it to him about mortgage fraud when they tried to deceive her to not use an American family. We had another house that we looked at, and the guy got freaked out from American families coming through there. So that's part of the thing with the mortgage fraud. He said he was going to go through the documents and paperwork just to see what would come up.

Okay. Did you say that you do or do not have the attorney under retainer at this time?

We have him. I didn't know. I got an email today where we got a, they asked about, yeah, they asked about the retainer today. So they took the case. So she just emailed us out there. Thank you.

Just curious, were you aware of home inspection services prior to buying the house?

I was.

I mean, I've heard of home inspectors. Did you just actively choose not to get one? No.

The real estate agent kept telling, all the houses we looked at, she kept saying, don't get an inspection.

She goes, if you get an inspection, she goes nine out of ten times, it kind of blows the deal. She goes, and she goes, if you like the place... And I did. I mean, looking, going through it and looking at it, you know, just that, you know, when she was showing me the place, I did like it.

Because it covered everything else.

I didn't know that there was so many things actually wrong with it until obviously we were.

Yeah, the way I look at it, home inspectors, you know, their appraisals are there to go and cover the bank for their asset, right, while you have the loan out. Home inspectors are there to cover you for situations like this. I understand that. That's the way I look at it, right, as you go.

I do understand that, and it's not without regrets. Yep. You know, I do understand that.

Yep. And then... Yeah, I don't have any other questions.

There are no other questions. They are both allowed to give a closing argument if they wish.

Okay. Who goes first for closing argument?

The objector would have the right to go first for a closing argument if you want to present a closing argument.

So I can ask Luke a question? I think just like you see on TV, a closing argument.

Right now, we're just looking at lowering the assessment just so that way we are actually, hopefully we'll lower obviously how much we're paying on the mortgage for the home just to get at being able to Fix the issues that are wrong with the home. After it's fixed, you know, five, six years from now, if they do a new assessment and we're able to get some of these things fixed, I'm not going to come back here and argue about the assessment if I felt that it was fair. But right now, just because of all the damages and...

every all the issues with the home i don't agree on that the home is worth 152 000 um another thing on the closing arguments too um at that last open book meeting we were here that guy was i don't remember his name but he was asking what do you think it's worth she said 100 i said I sat there for a few minutes. I said, I don't think it's, I don't know if we could get 120. I don't know if it's worth 120. And that was before we had the guy come out yesterday, the contractor, to give us the report of how much it would cost. I was just, I had no idea what it was going to cost. So that's why I brought the 120. There's no big difference. It's two weeks other than what the guy said it's going to cost to get fixed. So the closing arguments, yeah, I mean, We definitely regret getting that one.

It's a minor point, but I have to advise the board that no new evidence may be introduced during closing argument because the opposing party does not have a chance to cross-examine. So the advice is to disregard any new evidence that's been presented in the closing argument.

Okay. Are you closing agreement finished? Okay. And I'd assume he's closing agreement.

If he wants to do one, yeah. No. So then I just would remind the board that this was a substantially long hearing. There was a lot of good evidence presented on both sides, of course. And we are still constrained by the law. The board has to follow the law on this, no matter what the circumstances are. The best evidence of value for homes, I do not go over this at the beginning because it's more appropriate to do it now before you make a judgment. Number one, best evidence of value is recent sale price of a property at arm's length. Number two is sale price of other properties that are comparables to the property. If there isn't a recent sale price, you can go on. And the third one is the oral testimony by a qualified appraiser. Secondly, remember, please, that you have to determine whether the assessor's valuation is correct. under only evidence that's been given under oath. That's the only stuff that is binding. It's all been given under oath today. The board must always remember that the assessment is presumptively correct. If there is credible evidence before the board that may support the assessor's valuation, the valuation must be upheld by the board. And finally, the tax assessment must be shown to be inequitable and over to be overturned. Those are your parameters. And now you may deliberate and or make motions.

OK. All right. So we deliberate in public?

Mm-hmm.

OK. All right. My, I guess, position after reviewing everything is, while I can certainly understand the frustration that you guys have, with having a house that has issues after you bought it. What I look at is you bought it for the 157. The reassessment is now for less than what you bought it for. The issues that you have with your house, I mean, when you own a house, issues do arise. I mean, the timing is unfortunate that it's right after you bought it. I mean, it sounds like a roof leak caused that. Obviously, a roof leak, that can happen to my house tomorrow. I mean, it really can. My house is built in 1904, so it's 122 years old at this point. I do have some knob and tube wiring in my house as well. When I had electricians come out to do different things, they looked at it and said, yeah, that's obviously not up to any code now, but... It's solid knob and tube wiring, safe, didn't prohibit me from living in my house at this point. Had my basement redone two years ago. The wiring there, obviously, when we started, wasn't up to code. Now it's up to code on that part. The rest of the house is fine, right? So that project cost me more than I initially anticipated based off of that. But that's part of home ownership, in my opinion. So when we look at the assessed value piece of it in print, this is just me in my deliberation piece of it. I look at, you could have had an assessed value at $187,500. know which mortgage rates where they're at with you know everything going up and the inflated piece of just where you know where unfortunately mortgage rates are at at this point that's where that's where you could have been assessed at and the assessor lowered it to less than what you bought it for which I believe is honestly fair. I mean, if you were at the 187.5, I'd say, hey, maybe we should do a full-on different assessment, but it's already lowered to lower than that piece of, like I said, literally what you bought it for. Everything else in the area... is obviously close by when you look at that part of it. I mean, for your sake, I wish you would have had the home inspection done prior to buying it to identify some of those issues. You know, like the easy ones would have been the electrical box, like opening that up, the drop ceilings, you know, going in and, you know, that's just literally, you just take a tile and you just move it and you see, you know, shine a flashlight. Like I wish, you know, for your case, those are some of the things you would have done before you bought the house, but... But that's, I think, here nor there outside of just what the assessment would be. But when you look off of just what the assessment, what the assessor does for coming up with the numbers, because it's lower than what you bought it for, I think is already fair. So those are just my open thoughts, but I yield.

I have the same thoughts. The assessed property is down from the purchase price. To me, what stands out in my mind, I don't understand all the legalities with purchasing a house. Fortunately, in my part, my wife bought the house when I moved up from Ohio, so it was already done. But... I suppose if I was in your shoes, I would probably be looking at estimates. I'd obviously get pictures, gather evidence, seek out an attorney. It seems like you're doing that. But you've bought it from 157. It's down to 152. It's lower than what you bought it for. That's my line of thought.

Holder-Benzinger, you got anything?

Yes. I question whether this is the proper forum for as much of the evidence presented by the property owners. There was discussion of retaining a lawyer as a nondisclosure is something that can be open to civil actions, and I think that's probably where most of this should go. Okay. Kinsey?

I do not have anything... I would make a motion exercising its judgment and discretion pursuant to section 70.479A of the Wisconsin Statutes Board of Review that the assessor's valuation is correct and to sustain that valuation.

I'll second. Any other discussion? Okay, then all those in favor? Aye. And nobody opposed.

Since the evaluation has been accepted, or the assessment has been accepted, we need to notify you of your appellant rights. There are three ways to appeal the action today, or the determination today. An action for certiorari in circuit court under Wisconsin Statute 70.47, subsection 13. Administrative review by the Department of Revenue under WisStats 70.85 or a claim for excessive assessment under WisStats 70.37. In an action for certiorari, it must be commenced within 90 days after you receive notice of the Board's decision. Review is limited to the record before the board today. We would prepare a transcript. The exhibits would be transferred to circuit court. The court would consider whether the board kept within its jurisdiction, whether the board acted according to the law, whether the board's action was arbitrary, oppressive, or unreasonable so as to represent its will and not its judgment, whether the evidence before the board was such that the board might reasonably sustain the assessment, And there is a presumption of correctness that the assessor's evaluation is correct and that the board acted correctly. In an action to the Department of Revenue under 70.85, that must be filed in writing with the Department of Revenue alleging assessment is, quote, radically out of proportion to the general level of assessment of all other property in the district. The complaint must be filed with the Department of Revenue within 20 days after receipt of the board's determination or within 30 days after the date specified on the affidavit of the clerk of the Board of Review under 70.47 sub 12 if the determination is not received. The taxpayer must have contested the assessment before the board, which he did tonight. The valuation of the property must not exceed $1 million, which it does not. A filing fee of $100 must be paid to the Department of Revenue. No claim based on assessment may be brought under 70.37%. 4C, the DOR revalued property if it determines that the assessment is not within 10% of the general level of assessment of all other property in the taxation district. Re-evaluation of property can be satisfactorily completed without re-assessment of all other property in taxation district. Re-evaluation can be accomplished before November 1 of the year in which the assessment is made or within 60 days of receipt of the written complaint, whichever is later. Any claim for excessive assessment must be served on the clerk of the taxation district by January 31st, the year in which tax based on contested assessment is payable. Served in the matter as a summons, personally serving clerk or leaving the claim in the clerk's office with the person in charge. If the claim is disallowed, action in circuit court must be commenced within 90 days after the claimant receives notice by registered or certified mail. The claim is disallowed, failure to give notice of changed assessment as required by 70.365. The property owner is still required to serve the claim by January 31st and comply with the time limit for commencing an action in circuit court if the owner received the tax bill on time. I'm sorry you had to sit through that, but I have to read that.

You're also not expected to remember that I have your determination form, which includes appeal information, and I'll include the Department of Revenue guide for property owners for you as well.

All right, then that concludes this hearing. Thank you for coming in. All right, now we go back to number nine, annual assessment report by assessor, current level of assessment and review of uniform standards regulating assessors. Thank you.

Thank you. Sure.

So I put this pack together for you. So this is just kind of an annual kind of what we did for you. So I'll kind of go through it with you, and then you guys obviously keep this. This is just we'll change year to year. It's kind of giving you the stats, giving you, you know, our work, what we all did, what we all looked at. and just giving you some overall education about the assessment process so you can share it with property owners in Manitowoc. So first, just cover page. Second page, just kind of talking about the 2026 year. We did a maintenance year this year. We didn't revalue all properties. We looked at sales, permits, any splits and combinations, any requests from property owners. Estimated level of assessment, we're at 94% this year. We're at 100%. I think we came in just shy of 100. I think we were at 99 last year to the DOR. Sales are still looking pretty good, so I think they're going to make an economic adjustment upward this year. So my project will come in at 94. Also has net new construction numbers. And then page three just kind of shows you the totals. This is just locally assessed value. So manufacturing values are not included in this. So we're just under $3.5 billion in value. And then page four just kind of gives you kind of the compliance of kind of where we're at year after year. You know, our goal is to try to stay in compliance more often. So as you can see, you know, 2020, 2021, 22, we bounced out, got back in, in 23, uh, 24, I believe we took over. It was just a maintenance year. We're still in compliance. And then we ended up bumping it up and getting back in, staying in compliance. So residential and commercial are the only major classes. And as of 2025, we were at a hundred point five in residential commercial. We're at 94.9. And that was last year. Um, And then the next page just kind of gives you an understanding of how to look at the sales ratio study, kind of what the median ratio, aggregate ratio, all that means. And then page six just kind of explains uniformity and equity, which we're also trying to do as assessors, not just look at the sales. We want to apply it to all the properties similarly, making sure that everything is uniform. And then if you look at the ratio studies on page 7, you can see in 2024, you got a little red there. We were kind of out of compliance there. And then in 2025, when we did the reval, that was the 2025 values compared to the 2025 sales. So we actually did not have all the sales available at the time. because we were as of January 1st. So we came in at aggregate ratio at 96.42, median ratio of 94.4 in commercial. Residential, we were at 94.17 and 93.42. That's kind of where I came up with my estimate for 94% level of assessment this year. Our CODs are pretty good. So I think we do have a scheduled market update next year. So it's not going to be, I don't think in October, but it's, it's, it's going to be probably another busy one. And then on page eight, just kind of everything we did, we had 473 field inspections this year. I reviewed 802 total parcels. We had 2,259 permits that we entered into the system just to keep a log for, for the city. You know, The data ultimately is the city's. We just maintain it. There were 992 transfers this year that were processed. 474 of them were arm's length. We mailed out 612 assessment notices. We had 23 people come in to open book. It was myself here and Austin, which was brought up during the testimony earlier. We had 32 new houses this year, and that could be partials. And then we had 11 new commercial buildings, which could also be partials. And then it just kind of shows you the assessment cycle for this year. And then the last couple pages are, you know, kind of how the board should run. So this is something, obviously, for the future. If you need some reading, you know, it's good. Good reading. Page 10 is just some common terms in the assessment process. We have QR codes for our website, the city website, and the Department of Revenue. And then the last page is just kind of what happens after this. I file the MAR report with the state. I will most likely help Mackenzie with her statement of assessment. And then our values are set for the year.

For the 474 valid arm's length sales, what is an arm's length sale?

Willing buyer, willing seller. Oh, just like regular. So like the ones that aren't arm's length are usually, you know, transfer upon death deed or it could be brother to sister. Oh, gotcha. Something that we didn't use. So we used 474, I believe it was. Those are arm's length sales that we would use next year in the revaluation.

Gotcha. Yeah. Sorry for the silly question, but no.

There's no silly questions.

Yeah.

Any questions on that? No? All right. So that was number nine. Do we have any other open items there?

We do not. Now the roll is just open for examination. We remain open to the public if any other taxpayers come in, and we have to stay in session until 7 p.m.

Do you want to tackle 22 or do we got to wait? Let's consider scheduling.

We should wait because property owners could come in requesting waivers of the 48-hour notice to appeal. And if they did and we granted that waiver, we would likely want to schedule a different meeting so we can prepare.

Gotcha.

Turn mics off and we just kind of hang out.

All right, are we going to take up that other one officially?

So we are going to revisit the request to testify by telephone or submit a sworn written statement. We do have the request for submitting a sworn written statement. It is the request form from the Department of Revenue and the objection form. I will note the objection form, neither the objection form, the email, nor the request to submit by sworn written statement includes a property owner's opinion of the value.

Okay, so then.

I would make a motion to deny the request to receive sworn written testimony.

I'll second that. Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye. Any opposed?

Passes or denied. All right, next we're gonna go to the last item, which is to consider scheduling additional Board of Review dates if needed.

Don't think we'll need any.

If there is nobody here or nothing else on the docket, I don't believe so either.

You guys wanna just meet for good time's sake? No? Next year. Next year, okay.

And then we will, we have received the role, so we will have a motion and a vote to certify the role before we adjourn, and then this meeting's adjournment would be sign and die as well, because our business is complete for the year.

Okay, so then we'll make the motion to certify the role. Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Roll is certified.

And we do have to wait until seven.

I know, yep.

It's gonna be the longest three minutes. A minute is long enough when you're waiting for a clock to turn, much less three.

What's that? Oh, thank you very much.

I have to request access.

That one agenda item didn't last long. Oh, do you? They updated, so let me check.

Okay.

Because I have my, I don't know.

I should have waited until after the review. I was going to update information. We're actually having some more reports. We have to do my go now. And we are having huge issues because the Department of Revenue has been Don't.

All right, it's 7 o'clock, so that would conclude our business. I'd be looking for a motion to sign or die. What is it?

Adjourn, sign or die.

Adjourn, sign or die. So moved. Second. All right, we are adjourned.