Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

I will call the finance committee to order. First up is roll call. The committee is present in person with Alder Dunbar on Zoom. We will move on to public comment. Is there anybody from the public that wishes to address the finance committee this evening? Second call for public comment. Third and final call for public comment. Is there anybody on Zoom for public comment? So not. Okay.

There's nobody on Zoom for public comment that I could tell, so I will post public comment. We'll move on to discussion and action items, and the only item in front of us tonight is the 2026 executive budget. So first, I'd like to thank the department heads and staff for making themselves available for the finance committee this evening. I appreciate it. I'm hoping that this is the only time I'm asking everybody to be here for this meeting.

So if there are future meetings, it will be communicated to you if you need to be here for specific aspects to your budget. But I don't anticipate having the entire group here again. So but, again, thank you for making yourselves available for this evening. So I will open it up to committee first if there's any questions in general. Otherwise, my plan for this evening is to cover the presentation that was given to us as the PowerPoint to kinda go through slide by slide to kinda cover the highlights that was presented to see if there's any questions on the overview of it, and then we can get into some of the in general.

I know I put out questions or to the entire council if there were any items that we wanted to address to work with department heads and Sean first to see if there were any issues with that. So that's what I'm gonna open up with to the committee first, and then we'll go to the power point. So was there any items that the committee or alders in general worked with Sean or department heads on specifically that they wanted addressed right away this evening? Okay. Not seeing any.

Let's just take the couple slides here one by one. The mayor's here so we can kinda go through everything here. So the first one up is new revenue. I think everybody kinda understands that, but let's kinda take it. So we had the wheel tax increase of $20,000. That is not an increase in the fees. That is just the anticipated overall revenue coming in from the current program specification. So nothing's changing there other than the amount collected. State shared revenue, shared taxes increased. The expenditure restraint differences, LiftBridge aids decreased. So total, about 50,000 $51,000 in in revenue. Any questions on that slide from the committee?

K.

New expenses. So this is kind of the personnel line. Those of you who are on personnel, we kind of cover this in great detail. But we saw roughly 13% increase in health care costs the overall plan. But then we had the the wage increases based off of the contracts for police, the contracts for fire, and then the 3% nonrepresented wage adjustment in the in the comp plan. Any questions on those?

We just we should have 3% also for transit now as well. So that was in the budget of three, so that's not a change if the contract is approved that way, But that's another 3% as well.

Okay. I did not see that update or anything, but that's good. Just have it. So

So we have those increases in in the budget. Any questions on those numbers,

how those numbers are arrived, or any questions on the actions taken by council the past year and approved on those those dollars in the budget?

Just common transit? Yes. It's about 3%. It's in an enterprise fund, so

it does not impact the general. Okay. Alright.

So we got our personnel costs covered that way. Road projects. So this year, under the capital, the next two slides really are the road projects. So we take a look at the capital, which is under tab seven in your well, that's the road that's the road plan. Where's your capital?

Tab six. This one. Tab six.

Capital projects. While the slides kinda reference the capital plan, I think this is where we're gonna have the most discussion if if anywhere tonight right away. The road projects, park projects, the next slides. I guess let's start with the road projects. Obviously, have the under tab seven, the six year road replacement plan.

There was a modification this year coming out of public infrastructure. But then we have it laid out here of what the capital outlay is for this year as well as the future road plan adjustments. Is there any questions on the I guess, let's start off with the road plan in general and then kind of work into the capital portion of the the anticipated borrowing for 2026. So tap seven, is there any questions on the proposed road six year road plan? Okay.

So moving on to the then the road projects under capital in general. Let's take a look at the capital and road projects. Anything with the capital road projects plan?

Mayor? Just note that South 30th Street really has to be done next year in order to get those federal dollars, you're aware. Was in there originally for next year. Lancers Circle is new. There is a letter from high school in support of Lancers Circle that's attached to your. Curious to see support for that. Otherwise, a Kellner Street in Michigan to that involved. Michigan Avenue has a public infrastructure. Recommendation in Kellner, as I mentioned in my presentation, there was that one section, that one block that's really, really bad. We're looking at just basically throwing some potholes to get through for next two years, but the rest of it wasn't horrible shape.

So we when we went through this last time, we said we're only gonna really do those really bad streets section if it's incorporated in the larger project plan. But I'm talking to the staff. Bell Lancer Circle in that area is much worse shape than.

You look like you're

No. No. I agreed with the mayor switching those two out. I mean, I drive both streets to check them out, and it's a it's a horse apiece. But I know our public works director has been wanting Lancers Circle done. He thought so I'm go I have no problem. I I know that now it shows up for the year after calendar. And one year this way or the I don't have a problem with that.

I support that. Okay. And I I agree. I think that those plans are gonna be somewhat fluid as conditions change, and we can see roads that we think are gonna last a little bit longer, all of a sudden take a bad year and take a turn a little worse. So some of them just go stretch on a little bit longer as well. It's kind of the nature of that beast. So anything under the road projects that are listed kinda in the slides that we see issues with.

Personally, I appreciate the fact that there's an alley included. That's something that we've been working on in every year, so I appreciate that. And yeah. So the design of Franklin Street, we've talked about that for years. It's really has to be this this is the first step that has to be done if we wanna accomplish this over the next couple of years. So $600,000, that isn't prettiest because you're not getting the road done over the next year, but it has to be done. So that 600 just just for design every year. And then I did increase the sidewalk budget by $2.50, if you recall. I said that we our sidewalk we used have a sidewalk with this plan. We're city green dot program, we called it.

I went to the wayside because of all the the dollars that we had went to replacing sidewalks when we've got removing trees, dead trees. So this would still do that, accomplish that, but also start hopefully getting back to that green dot program. Neighborhoods that we used to do in the past that, like, on our sidewalks.

Everybody familiar with the green dot program? I think we've all had those and go, oh. Yep. K. Yep. Alright. Anything further on the two slides of the road projects?

Green dot. You mean the concrete?

Yes. Yeah. A little paint thinner goes a long way. Okay.

Okay. Just want based on the the past six. I think the mayor mentioned with some 30 and the other funding is the 80% federal funding. I just want

to bring out two with

the Vivaan Street. There's a small other funding of 84,000. It's the local local road improvement program that medical secured as well so that funding goes in. So if if that

project

would jeopardize that and and continue in that program. So

Okay. Thank you for highlighting that for everybody. Knowledge. Alright. So then let's take a look at the next slide of parks projects.

Any questions on the parks projects? We have the red arrow which was then kind of presented as a multi year plan. This is the second year of the influx within with some grant funding that we're trying to secure. And then the community built playground design and the rest of the parks, which should be the Miracle League or Miracles Park skate park extension or the other park kinda called out in the capital plan. So any questions on the park's improvements for 2026?

Oliver Rickenburg?

The Shooting Park community built playground design phase one, 250,000. Is that what we're getting? Just plans?

Well, let's find out.

Yeah. I'd to drop this

here, Ron. Kurt, do you wanna come up to Sure.

Went through the Yeah. We went through we talked to engineering design to talk about phasing this and how to go about it. So Brock did all that work.

Yeah. So we did a master plan for this park. We came up with a design for the group involved in it. Cost for construction from our final design, you know, the the the best thing you could do was $500. So 10% of that is 500,000 for design is what they recommended. We don't think that's necessarily needed. Right? So we pared that down. We looked through it. We cut through everything while we're gonna move forward. So we wanted to keep that. And we got to about 250,000 for the back out of that.

Is that included, like, brand new bathrooms? And Yep. We already have infrastructure there, and then we don't necessarily need to recreate the wheels. So probably be around more close to the $2,500,000 project, $3,000,000 projects. It's coming to the end of its life. Like I said in my presentation, it's not at end of life, so it's not like we have to do something today. But without getting this design, we really don't know what we're getting into. And, also, that gives us opportunity to probably potentially help.

Have a

nice, pretty design to show the problem, easier to fundraise off of that or, hopefully, covering a lot of those costs. Is

that after your Yeah.

I'm not happy to hear that it was estimated originally at 5,000,000, but I've been involved in projects at the county where communication was gonna be 25,000,000, and we got it done for 15. So that's basically why I'm asking. They're not taking the numbers that are just given to us willy nilly and, oh, sure. It'll be 5,000,000. Let's go. You So know? I appreciate that. That's the same

I'm sorry. Before I jump in here. No. Okay. But then we assume we're taking the same approach at the community built playground as the community built playground where we're looking to do the design work and then fundraise throughout the community as a community built playground.

Well, I don't think it's gonna be built. I'm not gonna build it.

Community funded?

Funded. Yes. So we did, like, a restoration effort a couple years ago. Yep. Very little volunteer effort. I don't know. We would expect that. Yeah. So But

we do wanna keep kind of the larger park field, like, do this today. So complex kind of deal. Right? You wanna keep that destination. Right.

Okay. So that's that's the next Okay.

Alright. As long as Brock is up here, can fire questions at parks. Any other questions on, I guess, the park section? We have shooty the playground we talked about, the skate park renovations. That council already. We approved those. Yep. And then the Red Arrow Beach, we didn't do anything this year, obviously. So we're looking at kind of the everything next year and then that extra the the the third part of that phase, securing the grant funding.

Yep. So we've we've applied for the grant. We've gotten good work so far. Nothing's been perfect, it's it's looking good. Our goal is for spring instruction and everything goes well. Spring construction and done by Is

that with the grant funding, or is there a is there a plan a, plan b if there

is no grant funding? Yep. So there's plan a, plan b. It's basically structure is lighting kind of the Does plan c come back next year for the 500? Yeah. Okay. She

We'll have to update the sheet that I have. There's gonna be the 1,000,000 on there. It was a, like, grant application. So because, ultimately, once this flows through and is approved, the approved project about 500,000 already been over the base one. Yeah. So the if

we don't get it, we'll just do that.

Okay. Alright. Anything further on the parks aspect of the? Yeah.

Question. So the original proposal, Correct. And Allison Miller five, what's the increase related to structures and my gotcha. Okay. Sorry about this. And

that's the stuff that's covered under the grant, more or less? Yes. Okay.

Okay. It'll be 2,000,000 next year, but that's not

we'll worry about this. Okay. Okay. Then then next page with our thank you, Brock. Next items we have is the new items that are listed on the next page. Or I guess anything else in the capital section. I mean, there's some other items that are gonna be coming up here, but they're listed in the capital. So in the the PowerPoint, we go to the new items, the phone system. We're kinda getting forced into that one through MPU with our phone system being out of date. I did express a little bit of my displeasure to the GM over there that this was a a last minute push from them on the phone system requirements and but it's it's gonna have to happen always we don't have phones.

So we don't really have much of a choice with that. The council chambers eight audio visual upgrades, I think we can all experience the frustration we're having this evening with that. But maybe just so we could have a good understanding of it because it is it is a rather large amount that is being asked for in this budget of audio visual upgrades. So if we can kinda just get an understanding of the scope of what we're looking for in the audio visual upgrades because while some things are nice to have and what I'm really concerned about the nicety is for the person at home that can better understand us and get the information to them. I think that's the nicety that has to come out of any audio visual upgrade.

Correct. So we've updated the AV in this room. He's nailed it here after years and never did it one full comprehensive upgrade. That's why sometimes we have issues of minor things and other things where this would be basically a whole upgrade of the AV audio visual of this this room. Really wanna use this this room as the main room for all of our meetings. We use it for internal employee meeting presentation. So I just wanna note that Mackenzie has really been the one working on with the we did a we bought a third party too to give us this number, basically, of what what it will take to bring us up to today's technology side. Don't Mackenzie, if you wanna throw in what we what this would look like.

The main issue is a lot of the equipment in here and in what we call our bathing room right outside the mall is years old, and it's just getting to the point of aging out, and that's why it continues to malfunction for us. So it's replacing a lot of the tower that kinda is the brain behind everything that, you know, sends our meeting and video to our Granicus server and sends out to be able to Facebook livestream. The microphones are still in pretty good order when we can turn them on when our tablet works. We will also be looking at changing the projector. Some ideas that we're floating around are a short throw projector, so it'll be closer.

And when we're at the podium, we'll be blinded with projection light. I don't wanna say and what the goal is also to create kind of an IT control station so that we can have an IT personnel here during council meetings so that there is someone who's not participating in the meeting that can troubleshoot when and if things go awry. So that would involve additional computers and screens. Rarely do

I say the county does something, but but this time, they if you watch a county board meeting, they they have audio visual setup. They have someone actually physically doing it. Like, right now, you know, the chair is pushing the mics to go. Who's next? All that would be taken care of probably in a desk behind Mackenzie there by the IT person controlling.

So we'll have probably a camera over here, the one in back, you know, camera over here give me a ready to go to the person speaking at public input or the next council member in line. Right? So it's just visually, it'll be much nicer too for the citizen at home watching. But, yeah, it's just all those upgrades. So like I said, so the 200 is kind of a higher number because it'll depend if we wanna do, like, that projector or if we just get rid of that and have we talked about having two very large screens where the city seal is instead to show the votes of council.

That's another item that's going down to bills of council, the item that we're talking about on the agenda, you know, things like that. So it this number includes potentially some large screen TVs to be added in this room, or if we upgrade the this, it's those are still not completely decided at this time to see if those things are going to look, but they're they're included in this number as technology increase. We did have third party coming into it. That's why that'd be we're very comfortable.

Any questions from council on the individual? I mean, I can attest that I attended a county meeting last night, I did watch one of the supervisors was having issues with their voting system. And their IT person was there right away getting a different pad to make it work so that they could get signed in. It was seamlessly up back and up and running for them, and the boat tally is there. I mean, it's nice. It comes with a cost, but it's it's a a nice system if it incorporates well into the information out to the public. That's the important part. Understanding that most of the the dollar you'll never see because it'll be in the IT room making it work smoothly. That's important too. So

Yeah. I just have one question. So we have, you know, 200,000. Have we actually had people in, and is this a quote, or are we just kinda pulling a number out and it could be left or right of that number? Like, is this yes most likely ballpark, or is this just kind of like a we're willing to spend up to this amount?

Most likely ballpark. We would not exceed it, obviously. So if there were Right. Right. If there were there were TVs that we couldn't afford because we're already in the 200, we're not getting behind this. That's how it works. But it's it's pretty pretty much close to the ballpark of what the third party gave us a list of. This is how much it costs to redo that room, you know, outside of city hall here to upgrade everything. Right? Yeah.

We they gave us a a quote that we're still, I mean, refining and working through as we kinda figure out what exactly we want to have included. But

And then we put that out for bid and it look yeah.

It's a large. Yeah. This is the yeah. Is the number we're comfortable with to get. This is the number we're comfortable with to make sure that that Zoom works and keep the microphones work all the time for sure.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I just I hadn't heard if we had gotten an actual quote or not, if this was just kinda, you know, we're doing our own research. That was my was my biggest concern. So thank you. Okay.

Thank you, Alder Dunbar. And then any other questions on the audio visual side of it? Okay. Not seeing any. And then the open meeting software here. So this is exactly what

the county has as well. So this is their voting system. It's nice because people visually can see how you vote, which is nice. You personally will have to say or push yes or no versus saying it, which is kinda nice as well. It adds that, you you're doing it, and and you're literally casting your vote. It looks nice for the clerk's office, obviously. There's absolutely no questions who voted which way or what. It tran it translates very easily kind of into our system. The people at home can see what they're voting on. Right now, the clerk reads the document, which is nice. But if you're sitting at home, what the heck are they going on? See it right there. It's $10,000 in the general fund for the annual software cost. Correct? 10,000.

It's in the clerk's budget in the general fund for that. It's the same exact software we toured the county. County clerk took us through the whole process. So Mackenzie and Jen could see exactly how it works to make sure it works with the way we do things. Correct. It does. And if you wanna speak more on

it I think you covered it.

So, again, it's transparency more transparency to the citizens as to what we're doing, and it just it's it's it's nicer. It's you would be, as council members, not voice voting anymore. I would call for the council to have their vote. We have tablets in front of you that it's yes or no. You log in that you're there at the meeting.

Abstain. You can make sure, like, last night, the county board had vetoes. You can make sure that it automatically has two thirds and know exactly which vote passes or not. So it's, I guess, it's an in dollars, but I think it's good for transparency and citizens. And if we're doing upgrades to this room, people sitting there will see what we're voting on it. We will.

Any questions on that software upgrade?

I would note that if Jim were here, he would agree. Just saying. If he if he talked about it at home, he had to amend it.

Yep. Now I I there was Greg has originally had some voting software as part of a package with that. And I remember we we did several years ago a trial trial it, and I just remember it freezing the system up, and it was kind of a nightmare. Have they improved it, and have we looked at just incorporating the granicus one? Do they or do they still offer?

I believe that they do still offer it. We definitely can look into it. I know when we were looking at the counties, we're interested in

the Yeah.

The open meeting. Okay. We certainly can't I

mean, I know that things may be changed, but it was not the best system. And then we also tried those garage door things where those were terrible. We couldn't involve

The the tablets Yeah. The technology advanced much further since those Garage doors garage door. Yeah. The tablets are nice, and then they yeah. They're right in front of you. It's clear what's happening for the council with you. What you're voting on, I guess, no word. Speak. Didn't mind to speak, and it shows, you know, the citizens at home who's in line to speak. There's no, I was next.

Well, and there's something to be said for if you're gonna integrate it, integrate it right and not piecemeal it through if you can do it. So I don't see any issue with it. But, again, let's let's go through that process and vet it out.

So I

guess that are new items. We have a couple other ones that they're are changing a little bit. The elimination of the tuition reimbursement program. We've that's been around probably is it that long? Ten years?

There's a increase to the amount for the symphony and the marine band, and then an increase to the visitor robust visitor service clerks. Any questions on those new items that are included in the budget that are kinda laid out here or any of the rationale behind it? No question. I just

the the marine band slash symphony orchestra was just restoring funds that we had taken away a few years ago, I believe. Right? Yeah. More than ten years ago. When we had a budget crisis, we cut every department or every every department had required 10. But so we got very bad on the sympathy by the same. Yes. This is this would be restoring back to those numbers, but the ring band did specifically request 22,000. So we sat down and met with them. They've been doing a lot more concerts and performances throughout the city than just what our kind of requirement of them was to receive the funding.

So that was their argument rationale. There should be a letter of also support coming in near future for that in the symphony as well. They They were at 7,500 and both have been doing more. They have to use it to support that. You do have a letter of support from the Rarwest Art Museum Board except for the increase in the rational line that should be in brackets for you. Okay.

Any questions on those new items?

Okay.

Then the next slide is Department of Public Infrastructure.

The

first up there is a separate parks and recreation department. I I did the mayor emailed me kinda after this budget presentation and with Dan and kinda laid out the process that we're gonna kinda take a look at this. So it's it's laid out in the budget as kind of a priority for 2026, but it's gonna go through the normal process of so of going to personnel and then a recommendation to counsel for kind of a a reorg. So, Mayor, I don't know if you wanna lay out kinda your process. You kinda laid out to me, but he asked me if I wanted to start this process now.

I said no. Let's get through the budget, and then we're gonna sit down once the budget's passed sometime in December. I'm gonna sit down with him him and Dan, kinda walk through kind of what their expectations and process, what brought them to this point, and then we'll start that conversation in personnel in January. But I'll let the mayor and if Dan has anything to add.

No. You said it exactly right. This so every single position that budgeted dollar wise in in this fiscal year is the same for next fiscal year. So I'm not recommending, you know, a parking rep director specific position and and pay in next year's budget. The the goal is obviously to make everything budget neutral.

And I want this to be a completely open process, so so staff and everyone can be there to talk with the personnel committee. We'll obviously have a recommendation. I will let you know now that I I will not be recommending that cemetery and forestry be under Parks and Recreation Department. They say possibly, but I won't be coming forward as a recommendation for me to to move that over to Parks that will stay under what would be Department of Public Works. And we could talk about all those reasons and synergies why and that.

But as for for you and for employees to know, all positions are eliminated, every position that's currently budgeted is the same. And and, hopefully, we can process openly. And if there's a change at January, July 1, cool. If you wanna take it through to the next budget year, I think that's alright too. But I feel this is something that needs to happen for the city.

For as everyone all the parks are here in here in my remarks, and I wanna prioritize it. This is a structure that we did have in NASA so you're aware. This isn't new necessarily during the budget crisis. We kind of threw this together under DPI. They they put a position where we can revert some of that. But they've created a lot of synergies over the that that too, which is like cemetery and forestry was under parks. But because of what they've done and the positive things that they've been doing, it doesn't necessarily have to go back to parks. So that

Yeah. Agree. Yeah. I think there there were a set of conditions that forced us to to put everything under under one umbrella, and maybe we have an opportunity to separate them back out. So we'll take a look at that, but that that process will really start in January at at personnel. So we'll look forward to that. Any questions or comments on that kind of plan going forward? It's not really a budgetary item because everything is the same, but it's gonna affect kind of planning for future budgets. So seeing none. Okay.

Then we have fire department station configuration. So, really, there's a there's a lot of stuff kind of thrown in there, but it's a $70,000 ask for a study to determine location, design of what a future fire department looks like for the city of Manitowoc as it comes into station configuration.

So Yeah.

She this is another one where we talked to a third party, so that's $70,000. No. Chief, I don't if you wanna

Yeah. Please. Follow-up from all this.

As the chiefs, it's it's on the list on there. It's showing it at a 170,000. See, it's empty years, fund balance of the capital one of the capital projects. So it's not impacted by the. We wanted a project with transparency and

So a lot that you see on the slide, as the mayor explained, it's kind of taking that overall look. We haven't really had anything official in the department since my tenure here in 2009 when I came as a deputy chief. It's kind of the historical that we are going to the Northwest Side, and so we put Station 4 over there. There's some efficiencies that I can see going to the three station configuration. Not that that would cost any staff positions.

It's just more or less the efficiency of having redundancy in those stations where we go right now. We have neighborhood stations, but they're not necessarily neighborhood stations either figured right now. I'm not looking to grow seven or eight departments by any mean or stations, but, really, we're in that time frame where the the bottom of that slide really talks about the long term benefits. One initiative that we have is we have the older nineteen fifty that really needs to be replaced. There's some major updates on Green Avenue.

And, basically, also kinda sharing with this study of the police department and the Public Safety Building. That concept was a great concept back in 1992 when it was built, but the police department has grown exponentially. As you know, they took over the fire administration offices that were upstairs at that building because they needed the room. And to be honestly, to work collaboratively with our peers is they could use some garage space as well. So, you know, one of the hopes that we have with this study and speaking with the one contractor that did come in to offer us some ideas, if you would, was the fact that if we could consolidate our station one with our station two, kind of a bring those two together in one area would be that three station configuration.

The benefit of that would be saving some public safety money because we wouldn't be looking at new police station or, you know, expanding. And I'm sure some remodeling would need to be done, so I don't wanna speak to that, but that's what that study would really offer. The one thing that we felt this is the chief and I, and we went with this company as far as the budget price that's included here was the fact that they also have, like, an engineer attached to it. So it's not just a data driven configuration or study that's going to be done. It's also kinda look at our facilities and what would it cost if we did this, what will it look like if we did that.

So that was one thing that we enjoyed about meeting with this company, SEH's company. They've done some work at and some of her other peers. Spoke with around the state that they've also done some work for them. In particular, this professional interest I have in this is one of their employees with the company is actually a retired fire chief from Kenosha and basically kinda looked at the same thing that we were trying to do here. Mind you, they had a seven station configuration, but he was looking at better better deployment of those stations and was able to combine two of those stations.

And so he kinda has a real good feeling of what we're trying to look to do, here and what's best for the citizens and instead of just kind of what we've been trying to do here over the last decade of, you know, anticipate that growth, see where that growth is going, but kinda have some more subject matter experts if you would to combine not only the data, but the facility assessment as well with this

proposal. Okay.

Are there any questions around fire department station configuration study and the consolidation of the stations as well as the current public safety building.

Yeah. I I had one. I chief kinda touched on it or mentioned it there. Are we working when we get this this study done to work with community development to kinda see, I don't know, an estimated five, ten, twenty year even growth as I'm sure if we rebuild and we put new stations in. We want them to last, you know, twenty years or so. We don't wanna be doing this every five. Are we looking to make sure, like, north by the airport as more houses go in there and all that? Are we working to see if there's, like, a twenty year plan of what Manitowoc may look like so that we can kind of anticipate that as well? And if we are, what kinda how many years or how far in are we able to project, the growth? And by that, I mean, you know, the the spread of Manitowoc.

So if I might answer that real quickly, we've been working with GIS for probably the last five years here trying to anticipate this. We have a lot of the information ready to go for this study that's gonna be done by the third party, and that's something that exactly what we're hoping with the placement when we talk about this reconfiguration that this could be a multiyear plan, and it's not just we bring two stations together, you know, in the next five years. It's like, what is it gonna look like in the next ten to fifteen years? With that data that we've been working closely with community development already with our own heat maps and help the GIS through community development.

Okay. Alder Dunbar, did that answer your question?

Yep. That was perfect. Thank you, chief.

Good. Alder Reckleburg? I'm sure you caught it, but we lost our screens there. Okay.

He grabbed me back in the room. I

knew you were on top of it. You where it says other financing because I noticed we're not bonding for that. What's the other financing?

That would be the intent is to borrow use the fund balance from fund forty six hundred because the juggling grounds capital project. So, basically, a fund balance. Correct. Okay. Similar to the the last finance meeting in October, we had that called Sure. That showed Yep. Balance, it would be a you'd see it as a reduction adjustment.

Sure.

That answer? Yes, So my question is around timing and because there's there's not really it says the last item as well as a multiyear initiative. What are we looking at for timing? Because, obviously, to consolidate the public safety building into just police isn't, hey. You're gonna move the ladder to somewhere tomorrow. Right? Right.

So, ideally, we don't know until we start the plan. But the vision that we have as far as administration goes is the priority is to look what can we do with Station 2 and Station 1. If those two items come out of the plan as being a great idea, that would be the focus that we're looking to accomplish right away knowing public safety. Police department needs room, the fire department needs to either update a station and and kinda move something a little bit more away from the lake in order right now up against the lake. And we don't serve too much of a population to the east of our current location. But if anything else is identified in the plan, I mean, those would be to kinda move forward with what their best recommendations are for it.

So the only way I don't have the words here. Well, so let me if I understand. The only way the police take over the Public Safety Building entirely is if the plan comes back that in order to combine one and two would be a new location?

Would be feasible? Yes. I guess it'd be more or less feasibility of it. But, yes, that would be correct. We would not move it. For some reason, this study came back saying that Station 1 isn't the right location and stuff. We'd probably be looking at something else for the police department in the near future, but they're gonna tell us that it's good. I'm not gonna come back to counsel here and say we need to have a new station after we make this investment in study.

I think yeah. So so just also for planning in other areas. So, for example, police is running out of storage.

Mhmm.

Right? And there was a proposal to me to say, hey. Let's let's build a storage building, not by DPW or take at this building and use this storage because we're just gonna have space. If we know all that, please, we'll take over the the Public Safety Building. We don't have to have that cost. Right? That's your cost. We'll figure out a way for the year or however it takes. Same thing with Station 2. It's it's a dire need of just upgrades and and just from the smallest things to the largest thing in the Sales Building. We put money into it today if that's not gonna be in the station. But the study should say, tell us, hey. You got this city mall, 500 new people living up in that area. This station might actually make sense.

Right. That we put money into it.

Well, just because though the way I read it, bullet point one sounds like it's gonna happen no matter what. And then we're doing a study to explore how three other stations would configure. So, you know, because we already say bullet point one is we're consolidating the public safety building into all police. And now we're gonna take the existing three fire stations and determine locations. So either way, it sounds like we're moving fire out of public safety and police is taking over.

I see what you're saying. That's our goal. That's what we'll tell them.

Yeah. It sounds like it's predetermined that patient one is gonna be resolved.

Yeah. That shared with consultants. Right. We told them that was one thing we were looking at Okay. Was the current structure. So

so we're asking we're asking for a unbiased opinion by giving them all the details that we want them to tell us.

Kind of. Okay.

All of we're honest about it.

No. I mean, major detail is that it's one thing we're looking for. But as we sat with them, it was really working with the heat maps we have and the information from GIS to come up with something out in the future because we really haven't had something formal that we can present to council and we come and say, this is what we need to do with, you know, whatever development might be happening at the Northwest

I'm just, yeah, I'm just wondering if it's better to take that $70,000 and just stick it into the one of the Fire Station 2 as some updating if that's you know, if the current plan is that the police need room in the short term is to exit Station 1 and stick some money into Station 2 to upgrade it so it's better than it is today. Take that $70,000 to do that while then we have three stations that are

My personal opinion, professional opinion is that this is a good investment moving forward within the public safety realm of things with the city of Manitowoc, especially for the fire and rescue department. The way we're currently staffed, our our current model that we have really taken in-depth look at, and this is really something that the study is gonna help us do. It's gonna help my predecessor when he takes over be able to come before council talk about some of the statistics and some of the actual information that is data driven of why it is we're here today to ask for a b or c. Okay. So that's that's ultimately what I hope is the goal of this study, not just to relocate out of the station.

If it was that simple, I would probably ask for that just to happen, but this is just one thing they'd explain to the mayor that could be a benefit out of it with getting police station, you know, that station when it all works out. Okay. Well, since we're kinda telling them some directives, I would give them

some directives on how to reuse some existing stations because the recommendation comes back to exit station 1 and build three new fire stations. That's not gonna be in the budget.

No. That's that's understood. That's not the purpose of it. It's to give us an idea of where it is, but that's why also just besides the data driven aspect of it, I just wanna make clear to you is that architectural engineer where that is going to be feasible where they'll look at those facilities and if we can use them for other items. I think that'll be a benefit for the city. Okay.

Great. Anyone

else have any questions on the consolidation relocation study? Chief Ryder, did you have anything about leaving space?

Okay.

Alright. Point well taken, all our sicklets, before I'm an excuse from the table. I really do appreciate, and I find this to be a very good investment and, you know, look forward to hopefully your support and budget process for the study to have. Okay. They'll be a great value to the citizens.

Alright.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next slide is tax levy and rate changes. So, obviously, all the previous slides kinda lead up to this slide. All the things that we talked about, the changes, the added, the detractions. So we get to the tax levy and rate changes. So obviously, we see the operational tax levy change from 2025 to 2026, which is an increase of 6.46%. And then the total levy with TIF was increase of 5.75%. And then the excess tax ratio is, you know, on

the mill rate has decreased to

12.34%. So is there questions on those calculations to understand how those numbers were put forth based on the actions and deliberations of the council throughout the year?

Yeah. I just have a quick question, and it's more the how did we come to this number sort of a thing. So, mister mayor, whenever you're working on this, the assessed tax rate, is this kind of after the the assessments, we looked at the value of the the value of the city as you will, and then you basically take what we expect the budget to be, and you kinda do a little division. You come up with, oh, here's the number we need, or is there another way you're coming to this number, that I'm oversimplifying maybe? Again, I'm just trying to understand exactly how first year, finance here. So I just wanna make sure I I know moving forward how this number is, generated.

Yep. Good question. So the the number that you really wanna look at is the operational tax levy for that. So what I when I went into the budget, I wanted told Sean and partner Vince that I really wanted to try and keep the levy as close to flat as possible, but understanding that there were a lot of increases that were approved by council or that we need to do. So when you look at that $1,200,000 increase, that basically that I should say basically, that equals almost exactly 13% health insurance increase, 5% for police, 4% for fire, 3% for non reps, and the equity adjustment or the Compression.

Compression adjustments. When you add all those together, it equals about 1,200,000.0 over last year. And that's where that's where I told Sean I wanna get that number to because we had increases in the budget elsewhere that I've shown on the other slide, like salt and everything. But, you know, it's our duty to really try and find ways to make the budget work without having to have the taxpayers pay more, especially since we are already asking them to pay more. But these were the ones that were approved by council, supported by me.

And that's what I think we can go to the taxpayers and say, we need 1,200,000 more dollars because of this. So that's the number I focused on was the levy of that part. The rates the rates then the rate fluctuates with that number. That makes sense. So I don't go in saying I want 20% rate decrease. I go in saying, where's the levy at, and and where am I comfortable? The rate the the assessed rate then is is based off of the levy number.

And I'll just add alder Dunbar. Can you hear me? So in in another way to think of it is we enter in all the expenses that we know. We enter all the revenue that we're gonna get from state agencies, our fees, our charges, our our interest from investments, and then there's usually a hole. Like, if there is a hole, then that is ideally what the levy would be. And but for then, there's also to reduce the levy, you either go back and cut expenses or use something you'll hear called fund balance. It's usually determine your expenses first and then work backwards.

Yeah. That's how we've watched it. So

look. Are we able to hear everybody on

that one? Yep. I did. And I just got one follow-up. Like I said, it's it's more of the next few two slides to kinda maybe when we're jumping on this.

So I'm sorry if I'm jumping ahead. So as you showed, in operational tax levy, we have a 1,230,000 increase. Right? So when we got down to the very bottom assessed, right, we went you were able to decrease the assessed rate per thousand by, what's that say, 12 and a 12 and a half percent roughly. So that number, though, that is based off of after you get your operational, tax levy and all that, that we were able to decrease the assessed tax rate due to the increase in housing.

Right? So instead of I guess instead of it being a if everybody's house stayed the same, we would have saw an increase in what we would in that tax rate levy. But since there was what was it? A 23% roughly increase on city taxes, but we're only asking for, what is it, 12%? You're actually able to lower the assessed tax rate by 12%. Is that roughly what I'm thinking?

You came you got elected in a fun year. Because next year, for example, when we don't have the reval, next year, we could focus way more on the assessed tax rates because that will be equal to everyone. Because everyone's assessment will pretty much unless there was a major change with an individual property, Everyone's assessment would be the their property assessment would be the same next year as it is this year because we're not going through a citywide rebel. So the assessed tax rate number next year will make way more sense to you and the average citizen and and everyone here. That's why if you look at the the screen where I have the elders and myself, you know, that kind of explains it better because the way we are allowed to tax in Wisconsin is that levy.

I'm asking so if everything remained equal, we would have a $1,200,000 shortfall because I'm increasing the levy by 1.2, which means I need to bring in 1,200,000.0 more dollars from the citizens. But that doesn't mean that every citizen is gonna pay more to help fund that 1.2. As you can see from that slide, we're only bringing in 362 more dollars from the 11 of us. Right? Some of us are paying more.

I mean, I mine I I said in my my slide presentation that I'm paying the most not paying the most. I see that I'm paying the highest increase of of that share, basically funding what we're gonna get in new, but others are not. So this is a very difficult year to try and explain the assessed tax rate because that number really isn't telling the full story. This slide of the 11 of us really is telling the true story of what what we're bringing in. Some are gonna pay more. Some are gonna pay less. But overall, we are asking the taxpayers to fund $1,200,000 more in property taxes done for previous year.

Thank you for that explanation. I appreciate it. Thank you.

I hope it makes sense. It's it's next year will be much easier to explain this. Much, much easier. Alright.

Thank you, alder Dunbar. Alder Reckleberg?

Yeah. The assessed tax rate going down roughly, as you said, 12 and a half percent, but you have a 23% increase on average in your assessed values for the residential area. No. It's not a one for one. So when the assessed value goes up 23, you can't assume that there's gonna be a 23% decrease in your rate.

It's not exactly a one for one because there's three other calculations that go into their op because we're just dealing with the residential. And I checked out the mayor's worksheet that he had. That was the city's line item only on your tax bill. What I did is I expanded upon that, and I said, what is my tax bill gonna look like if we end up with a levy where the mayor has it, where the county so called, I think, adopted theirs, a school district, so on and so. So I actually recreated a tax bill for my my own property, and my assessed value went up 19.56.

So I am underneath the 23% average. After doing all the computations, my actual tax bill will go up about a $182. Now if my actual assessment went up 23%, which is the average, my tax bill would have gone up $326.67. So there is a a little bit of a a difference between the average and under average. If my assessment had gone up more than 23%, I would be looking at one heck of an increase in my in my overall tax bill.

I look at it as my city taxes line item where I'm at at a 19% increase in equal in assessed property value equated to about a 4.81% increase on city taxes. It was 7.83% on my city taxes if I were at the average. Because what I am looking at is because we're in a a horrible year of the assessment and they go up on average 23%, I'm looking at the bottom line on the budget as to what does it affect the average person. Because there's no way I could equalize everything and say, hey. Your taxes are only gonna go up $200, period.

I don't care if they're here or there. You can't do that. But so I'm looking at the averages. And for me, the mayor knows this, and and I've talked about this a number of years is ideal in the averages because I try to hit the average because some people like me because their taxes go down and some will not like me, but I hit the average. So if you're at the average, you can assume that your city taxes are gonna go up about 7.83%. And then, of course, everything else follows kind of along with that. So I had my say, so thank you. Thank you, Alder Reclover. Is there

anything else on the tax levy rate changes and how it affects my taxes?

Other than I got a worksheet. So if you wanna just download what your numbers are, I I can plug them in and you know where you're gonna be.

Okay? Just to add that the state manufacturing assessed values have not been finalized yet.

That That was one of my

next questions. We should be Yes. There's We're open Friday or possibly tomorrow. Okay. But maybe we can shut down every time too as well for. But we'll update. For you some Okay.

I know we wanted to keep this meeting to 05:30. It's 05:29. I do have a couple of questions to get to in preparation for tomorrow's meeting. I'd still like to keep it. Again, not gonna require department heads to be here. I think we put them through enough suffering for this one hour meetings tonight. So my couple questions I have is and I don't know if we know the answer to this. I'm not sure they know the answer to this. Trevor is just talking about the transit budget and wanting to take a look at Route 1. There's roughly at a $156,000 for an annual contribution.

So I think that's what they did in 2025. It looks like they're talking about maybe cutting it for 2026. I'm not quite sure what their proposal is, But just how if they do decide to cut that funding for the transit system, what does that do to our transit budget going forward? I don't know if you started that conversation or what that looks like, but that's kinda on my radar.

Sure. Yeah. I can just comment. I know the mayor, Dan and Dan and Kevin were testing the operations. We do have a meeting tomorrow

with Okay.

Members, but I can explain the funding aspect. So, essentially, if the one know, the 156,000 right now

is being asked for, it can

be towards offsetting the cost for providing them one. That's in in the way how it works is that's what they call local share. So high level is when the that's federally funded. They look at it. They take what are your total expenses to run transit department, salaries, benefits, all operation costs. Then they reduce it by the way they call transit revenue, which is your fares. So the amount you pay to ride the bus and any advertising you get for on the bus. That's what they call your net deficit or your net expense. I'm sorry. And then they say, okay.

Of that net expense, state and federal get 50%. So if the net expense was a 100,000, 50% would be 50,000. You're still left with 50,000 to make up, and then the state and federal require us to provide a local share of how to make us forward. Usually, it's a property tax letter but or any other intergovernmental funding, like, get money from the county for the. School district gives us some money.

Or in this case, in historical, Two Rivers has offered some contribution. Even with Two Rivers contribution in all those years, we're not made whole in general, so it's usually that you're using transit as enterprise fund fund balance. Okay. So if the I think the post says maybe he wants to get 70,000 instead of a 100 and let's say a 160 just using that. Let's say that went through, I get $90,000 possibly with our I wouldn't advocate raising our levy for that so that it would just be Neither

would I.

Yeah. Our fund balance would support that. So, ultimately, you're using fund balance to carry out regular operations, which is generally not

Okay. Yes. I tried to go through the River's website to try try to look at their budget, and I can't find anything tied to anything. So talk about open Well, we may

have more information tomorrow night.

Okay. We

have a meeting tomorrow.

Okay. Then the other question I have is, when we take a look at tab three, and this is my last question, no problem. We take a look at the personnel slash benefits tab, and we have the FTE equivalent the positions throughout the city. I know that I think at least I know that there are some positions that aren't listed here that are held open and not funded in the budget. Can I get a list of all those that are held open and not funded in the budget?

Not the ones that are currently that we're advertising for that are not filled. What I'd like to do is kinda just look at eliminating those that are we've held not that we're not advertising for that we're not looking to fill. Just eliminate them, and that way there's no temptation to fill them and there's not sitting there. So Could you ask to

send it to all of us?

They'll they'll give that information. We'll have it for hopefully, tomorrow's meeting if that's possible. The one that the only reason I noticed it was and it's the for example, like, the attorney's office is is one that I noticed. The assistant city attorney, it's not listed under the full time equivalents. But when we get the manager minute meeting minutes, the position is showing still vacant. So when I asked the mayor earlier, he said that it's held up, it's still listed as a position, but it's not advertised and it's not being filled. So if we're not advertising and we're not looking to fill it, it shouldn't be on the books at this point.

So, yeah, that's so, you know, all all positions are approved by council. All positions need to be eliminated by council technically. Mhmm. Even though we don't want them, they're still, you know, like, the PPI business manager we have in the field. We have an engineer position that we budgeted for at at dollar score. It didn't at dollar score, technically on your books as a position. Yep. Just Yeah. We can get a list by that.

We just went through the same exercise at actually, at the mayor's Thank you. Yeah. And to you at the mayor's push. So I think it's something we should do here too.

All the Rockeberg? Yeah. I'd just like to add one item on Europe. I had gotten an email and a phone call regarding the room tax in Europe, and they said they had asked for 10, and they were given five. But I only find $400 in the budget, so maybe somebody could explain that to me.

Room tax meant breaking board the budget presentation, So that came out of recommendation. So the original amount that you put in the system were 400 and then tax met before it improved the budget, and that was improved increased.

So So up to 5 Mhmm. But it's not reflected anywhere that I can find in the budget.

It would be because approved there. It that was a

I know a timing problem, but I'm saying now do we have to do something to get them up to five? Does that go on the levy, out

of fund balance? Well, it would be presented in the finance community recommended if it's it's gonna be something that's added. Would have to be added.

So to go from the 400 there to the 5,000, we've gotta find a funding source there.

If if you well, if you want to take a look all the Recklerberg on in the Granicus file under the room tax commission meeting on 11/04 under discussion on tourism budget is the itemized proposed budget that was passed our room tax. So that gives you everything.

Sure. What I'm just saying what's we're gonna be acting on is

if we adopted it as is and said the mayor's got a budget, we would be shorting them if we wanted to Well Technically Technically, room tax commission has control over the the the dollars and not council.

The tourism dollars. We would just have to make that adjustment with those from tax approved. Don't think finance committee can change the tax. They cannot. But we set the official for that very purpose to take it out of.

Yeah.

You'd have to just

The request would have to come to the root tax commission. But so if there's any not anything further, if there's anything additional information that we would need for tomorrow evening, I would recommend that committee members get ahold of Sean or the department heads. But, again, I'm not requesting department heads here tomorrow. If there's a specific item, myself or any committee member would ask you to be here to address it. But, otherwise, we will see everybody tomorrow at 05:00. Motion to adjourn. Okay. Motion to adjourn. Second? We are adjourned. Thank you.