Board of Zoning Appeals and City of Madison Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Madison's Board of Zoning Appeals, February 9th, 2026. Mr. Secretary, would you call the role? Absolutely. All right. Scott Baldwin here. Rick Ferris here. Uh Carl England here. And Nancy Parker here. Uh we have two sets of minutes to

consider this meeting. Uh first was the we'll first consider the minutes of our last meeting January. Uh are there any additions or corrections to January's minutes? Hearing none. All in favor? I move that we approve January's 26's minutes. Second. All in favor say I. I.

I oppose. No. And we have a set of minutes that had to be tabled from December of 2025. Uh I move that we approve. And Scott, on that one, I have the two updates to docket numbers. Thank you.

Um so I was not at this meeting. Um but I was trying to go through and close out those applications. Um, and realize in those minutes that were sent to you guys, um, what is listed as BZVD2514 for 8:15 First Street, that should have been listed as BZVU25-8. And then the following one for 609 Street, it was listed as BZVD2513 and that should be BZVD 2517. So, if you want to motion with those two amendments, um I will make sure that we get Christy or uh who what not to get those incorporated.

Are there any other additions or corrections to December's meeting uh minutes? I move that we approve the minutes from December of 2025 with those corrections. Second. All in favor say I. I post no. And they are approved.

Correct. Uh, moving on to our renewals. We have only had four, three of them. Amy Black and Chad Nichols, Michael Hullchack, Gay Marcus, Chad and Ashley have all paid their renewal fees. Uh, no complaints. Therefore, I move we approve the renewal of these three conditional use permits. I'll second your motion.

All in favor say I. I oppose. No. And we had one BZCU-23-4 Glennia Moore 37 367 State Road 62. That was a conditional use permit for mobile home. And we have as of our meeting not received uh the renewal payment. So therefore, I move first we instruct the appropriate staff member to attempt to contact her and see if this conditional use is still valid. And second, we inform her that if she pays her conditional use fee by our next regular meeting, it will be renewed.

Second. All in favor say I. I.

I. No. Uh, moving on, we had one tabled application from last month's meeting. It's BZVD-25-16 Delbert Greece requesting a variance from development standards to build a new shed on an existing pad 2747 Lumir Drive. Is there someone here to address this issue? Yeah, I'm del I'm just want to build a shed on that existing concrete pad you see there right there. It's 4 foot from the line instead of 10 foot from the line. All the letters. How long was the previous shed there or how long has it been gone?

Well, there wasn't a shed there. There was pool on that pad. I see. Board members, any other questions, comments? You're not going to have to modify the pad or anything to accommodate what you're building. Okay.

Any other questions or comments? Board members, would anyone in the audience like to speak for or against this application? Well, seeing none, you can have a a seat, sir. We do have uh some finding of facts, findings of fact. Some of you may not know about this. They are criterion that the state sets up. If you'd like to see them, just contact our secretary. So, this is a variance from developmental standards. Uh I will go through the list as each of you since this is a variance. Uh your opinion and state your your opinion and reasoning. Uh number one the approval is not injurious to the public health safety morals general welfare Mr. Ferris.

No I don't believe so. I think he's just trying to use an existing uh structure that's already been there. Mrs. Burkhard. No, there are other structures like that in the neighborhood. Mr. Eagland. No, it should help the neighborhood I think with give the gentleman some more storage. And I have seen no indication from anybody that there's a problem there. I think that one's approved. Number two, this is about the use and value of adjacent property areas. is not substantially adversely affected Mr. Ferris. No, I don't believe it will be. I mean, he's just trying to use what what's already there. Mrs. Burkhard? No, I see no problem in that area.

Mr. Eagland? Nope. None of the neighbors complained. Like I said, it's just going to enhance his property. And there was no testimony from a realtor or neighbors or anybody. So, I think that one's met. And number three, strict application of the zoning ordinance will result in practical difficulties. What are they, Mr. Ferris?

Well, the location of the lot line is the practical difficulty that he's dealing with. And if we adhere to the uh ordinance as it's written, then he couldn't build the uh shed. Mrs. Burkart, I agree with that comment. Mr. Eagland, I agree. Uh, the practical difficulty is the size of the yard. So, I think that one's met. We've gone through our findings of fact. We'll take a motion. I move we approve variance as requested. Second.

And could we have a roll call? Sure thing. All right. Um, Rick Ferris. Yes. Scott Baldwin. Yes. Carl England. Yes. Nancy Burkart. Yes. Well, sir, you have your variance. We wish you well.

Uh, next item on the agenda under new applications. We have several applications for conditional use permits. Uh, the first item, BZCU-25-27, 2205 Taylor Street. Uh Christy Haye, Mark and Christy Haye requesting a conditional use approval uh under category 111 home occupation to operate a one chair nail salon. So somebody come up, give your name and address, explain what you want to do.

Christy 2205. We have an existing shop that we built just mostly for my personal use. I'm a a licensed cosmetologist and in my retirement I just want to work out of there and do nails. I used to own a shop and sold and this is what I just want to do. We don't really have any issues with parking there. As you can see, my shop is built onto the detached garage. It's not attached to our home. We park our personal vehicles. I park mine up front. are usually away from there would only be me.

Like you have like you have plenty of parking. Yes. Yes, we do. That's a good thing. What hours do you propose? Well, I had mentioned to Amy, you know, like 7 to 7. I'm not an early person. It wouldn't be that early. And you know, probably no later than seven, 8:00, something like that. You know, I have evening people Well, if the board elects to approve your conditional use, we do have to have a definite time. So, you want 7 to 7 or maybe a little later, like 8 or 9. We're not going to check on that 7:00 early.

I'm sorry. Uh, it would, you know, more than likely be more like 9, maybe to 8 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. You propose? Yes. I have people that do come in at 6. So, uh, I presume you would have like one person at a time. Yes, definitely. The only time there might be an overlap would be if someone were coming in as I was finishing up, but there again, we do have plenty of parking. So, yeah. So you would have max two cars,

right? For a short term. Well, it is a residential area. Yes. Um there is a problem. Our current zoning ordinance uh section 6.10A 10 A number one little A home occupation, which is what you want to do, is conducted entirely within a dwelling and this is a detached garage. So staff, do you have any?

So that's where we've talked that we're um in theory in transition if new ordinances get updated. And I know you and I kind of went back and forth with this ordinance, the new ordinance, and when do you apply? Um that the new ordinance allows that to be within any accessory structure, too. So um again, by the time you get this established um that's not been something that seems to be contentious um or debated within that that proposed ordinance. Um, so that I think it would just be that that needs to be uh in effect before she actually establishes it uh the use. So because it would be compliant once you're

proposing a conditional use contingent upon the adoption of the new I mean if not we could just go through a variance process for that but it would be under the new um permitted within any because it's completely within a in a within a building right the only reason I bring it up is because it is a residential area And under our old our existing ordinance, residences are pretty much residences, right? And they have a whole set of rules. So I understand you've talked over with Mrs. Williams.

Yes. Quite a lot probably. Yes. So are you good with what she has what she's proposed? Yeah. In theory, possibly, again, we can't ever predict that timing, right? But we've talked about it would be the hopefully the next couple of months. And if not, we can just go through and go through the variance process for that. But hopefully by the time I know you were going to get up and running, you've got, you know, do some things I think with the state, too. Uh, or you already have your license, that's right. Yes. Yes. Um, we can take care of that hopefully within that time frame, I would think. Board members, do you have anything? We got a couple questions. Um, do you have plumbing in that building? Yes.

Okay. Yes. So, since it's a new salon, does it need to be inspected then by the examiners, like the state board examiner since it's a new salon? I don't know if it does or not. Um, that might be something you want to check into just because of your license. Yes. Um, that's all I know. And for disinfecting your equipment, do you use like a wet disinfectant? use like an autoclave or well barbside. So yeah, I'm curious to know if it needs to be an inspection by designers.

Yeah, and that's something we can definitely look into. Um outside of whatever the approval if it does get approved, that's going to be required by state code anyway. Um but that's something we can look in through the health department usually is I think the one who does that. Any other questions or comments board members? I think we just include that in our mo in our motion. Anything else? Board members, would anybody in the audience like to speak for or against this proposed nail salon? Seeing nobody, you can have a seat, ma'am. Thank you.

Uh this is a conditional use. There are a set of nine criteria you can see here by the state. I will go down the list and if any of you board members have comments or objections and you don't think that the criteria is met, feel free to speak up. Uh this is category 111. is number one. Is that the appropriate category? Are you all satisfied board members? Yes. Yes.

Uh number two, this is harmonious with the general objectives or specific objectives of the comprehensive plan zoning ordinance. Are there any are you all in agreement there? Yes. Yes. Number three, harmonious and appropriate in appearance with the existing or intended character of the general area and it won't change that essential character. Uh are you in agreement? Yes. Yes. Number four, hazardous or disturbing to neighboring uses? No. Are you in agreement or you think it will not be hazardous? I should say

I see no issue. Uh number five, this is uh about being served by utilities and services, all those persons and agencies and whatnot, sewer, water, etc. Are there any problems, board members? No problem. No problems. Number six, uh this is about creating excessive requirements at public expense, not detrimental to the economic welfare of the community. Are you okay with that one? Yes.

Number seven. This is uh do you agree this won't involve uses uh processes, materials, etc. that are detrimental to the person's property, general welfare by producing too much traffic noise, smoke fumes, etc. Is there any problems? No problems. No issues. Number eight. This one is one about not interfering with traffic. Any issues? No. No. And number nine, loss or destruction of natural scenic historic features. Any problems? No problems. Nope. Oh chief.

Having gone through our findings of fact, I move that we approve this conditional use for a period of one year contingent and its renewal being contingent upon the adoption of the new zoning ordinance. I'll second your motion. I'm not done.

I'm sorry. Uh, and also subject to the following conditions. Hours from 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. One client at a time with maximum of two cars for short-term. That's my motion. I'm ready. I'll second your motion. All right. And can we have a roll call? Absolutely. Rick Ferris, yes. Scott Baldwin, yes. Carl England, yes. Nancy Burger, yes. Ma'am, we wish you well. Thank you.

Uh, next item on the agenda. I got to do my paperwork here. Next item on the agenda is uh BZCU-25-28 Cherylyn Miller RBCT Properties LLC requesting under a conditional use under 121 Rooming and Boarding House located at 822 Green Street and someone come up and address. So, I have Can I give your name and address for the record, ma'am? Please.

My name and my personal address. Well, personal business. Uh, Cherylyn Miller, and I'm here on behalf of Recovery Foundation of Southern Indiana. Um, our address is PO Box 22 Handover. We're looking to purchase the house at 822 Green Road. Uh, my only problem or big problem at the moment is that there was very little information in our in the application packet. It mentioned something about a transitional house. Well, transition of why is it like a sober house?

Recovery residence. Yes, there was an addendum to the um application that answered in a lot more detail some of

that was what I sent out last Friday. It is some of that is included in the printout copy. It has the big updated information submitted. Um it was red when I emailed it, but I think printed black and white. Um so that was some of the additional information that was requested. And then um also um there was I think a link to some of the just general information on Recovery Foundation of Southern Indiana the you know the your um handbook. Yes. Not specific to necessarily just this house, but more of to your um or was it

right? The handbook would be for um the programming for this specific organization. Yes. Yeah. For the organization. Yes. Not not just this house, but it be helpful if you give us an overview of what you perceive it as being compared to what you have in other places like females, males, where they're coming from, just a general overview of the whole project, I guess. Okay. So, um I have a I have a lengthy presentation, but it doesn't seem like that's the way this is really going. So, I don't know how much um Well, we'd appreciate detail, ma'am. I mean

Okay. Okay. So, um I mean I want to give you guys some history on like uh research on uh the impact of recovery residences in in communities. So, um research consistently shows that stable housing is one of the strongest predictors of long-term recovery. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration identifies home and community as essential pillars of sustained recovery. Recovery House provides both. Um it's a safe structured environment that reduces relapse risk and um there's a supportive peer community that increases engagement in treatment and in in treatment and recovery. There's a lower demand on emergency medical services and crisis response. And for Madison, this means healthier residents and reduced strain on local health care and first responders. Um, it also there's a benefit of economic and work uh workforce benefits. Substance use disorder often disrupts employment and housing stability. Recovery housing helps residents regain footing so they can return to the workforce and contribute to the local economy. Benefits to Madison include increased workforce participation and job retention, reduced costs associated with homelessness, incarceration, and emergency care, greater stability for local employers who struggle to fill open positions. Stable housing is a foundational step toward long-term financial independence for residents and economic vitality for the city. Um, without stable housing, individuals often cycle between homelessness jail and emergency services. Recovery housing interrupts the cycle by providing structure, accountability, and support. Communities with recovery housing experience fewer repeat arrests, lower rates of homelessness, reduced burden on law enforcement in the court system. Um, a recovery house strengthens neighborhood stability and enhances

overall community safety. Local providers consist consistently identify housing as one of the biggest barriers to successful recovery. Our recovery house fills a critical gap by offering stable base from which individuals can access treatment, employment services, and family support. This aligns with Madison's public health priorities and expands the city's capacity to address addiction as a chronic health condition rather than a crisis-driven emergency. Um Madison is known for its resilience, compassion, and commitment to community well-being. A recovery house reflects these values by keeping residents connected to their hometown, strengthening families, and reducing general generational impacts of addiction, and promoting dignity, stability, and hope. It's not simply a program. It's an investment in Madison's long-term health, safety, and economic strength.

So, that's some a little bit of um you know, like what research has shown and what the benefit is of a recovery residence. this specific program. I would like to talk a little bit about what this specific program will offer. Um, and the requirements for participation in this program are first of all willingness to participate in all aspects of the program. Residents will be uh required to maintain employment, participate in daily 12step recovery meetings, participate in life skills classes such as parenting, budgeting, healthy relationships, participate in evidence-based practices such as matrix program and seeking safety, and some others. Um they are mandated to um do community service every week in the community. And um they're also required to have a mental health evaluation and participate in outpatient treatment. It's not a detox. So that means they have to be already off of drugs and alcohol when they come to us. So they already have to be sober. Usually that's accomplished by coming straight out of an inpatient program or like out of jail, jail or prison. Um and it's not a homeless shelter. these people, they're coming with a very specific purpose and um we'll have very specific um things that they have to do in the program. The program is a four-phase program. So that means to move on to graduation, they have to complete each phase in succession. Um it's a minimum six-month stay um up to possibly a year. Um we'll have very strict rules. If you looked over that handbook, it's like six or seven pages of rules. It's highly structured. They'll have a curfew, random drug testing. There will be a zero tolerance for drug or alcohol activity, theft, or violence, which means any of those things automatically dis uh dismissal from the program. There will be a full-time paid house manager during daytime hours, and then a

nighttime live-in house monitor who's there to oversee things in the evenings and nighttime. Um the house will also have internal and external cameras to monitor safety of the home and anything going on in and around the home. Um as uh as noted above, scholarly studies have found that the residences that residences which operate in a similar fashion lead to increased odds of abstinence abstinence, decrease arrests, greater likelihood of employment, and overall improved quality of life. studies have even found that there's no evidence that recovery residences lower surrounding property values. Uh I specifically even tried to search um terms requesting studies that would show how recovery residences have a detrimental on effect on communities and the result said there are no credible studies showing that recovery residences are detrimental to communities. In fact, the research that does exist consistently finds no negative community impact and in miss in many cases it has positive effects. Um, I'm not only speaking from studies and research though I personally have experience of more than a decade of involvement with recovery residences in this county um, of which we've had three formal um, recovery residences over the past 20 years or so. It's been my experiences that there were no problems. It's been my experience that there were no problems in the neighborhoods in which these houses existed. They did not have a reputation for disturbances or having local law enforcement called to to deal with issues at the homes. Um, on the contrary, there have been many nonprofits in the community that can attest to the benefit of having residents in those programs do volunteer work uh with their agencies over over the last couple decades. Um we we now have several women on our very

board of directors who have benefited from one of the local programs along with women on our board who um have attended similar programs in other counties. They're working at local factories. They work at mental health centers and other respected businesses. They attend local churches. They've obtained college degrees. They volunteer with different organizations, including this one. This is all volunteer. They've been sober and productive for years and they are an asset to the community. Some are here tonight willing to share their stories if you want to hear them. Um so we're going to be cir um seeking certification through the department of mental health as a level three recovery residence. Um that will require that we abide by national quality standards and code of ethics. Um and we'll have to pass an inspection as well. This is not required. anybody can open a recovery residence and there's no and and you don't have to get certified by anybody. You can just open your doors and call yourself a recovery residence. But we don't want that. We want to have this oversight um and quality of care for our program participants so that we know we're doing everything top top-notch. Um we're also going to become a recovery works provider and that just adds another layer of accountability by requiring policies and procedures that align with Indiana standards. Um, Bethany Legacy Foundation has a mission to make Jefferson County the healthiest place in the world, and we're in agreement with that. We're doing our little part to offer an opportunity for people to live their optimal lives, substancefree. Our tagline for our organization is create a life worth living. Um, our goal is for every person who enters our program to have every every opportunity to do just that. And this is the bottom line. We want to be good neighbors. We want to be a bright light in the community. I have grown up here. I love my town. I want to bring value to my town.

Everyone gets on social media and talks about all the problems, but very few will pick up the torch and do something about it. They all want the mayor or local government to fix everything. We don't see it that way. We see that it is the people with the heart and the passion for a particular cause who are best equipped to do something. So, that's what we're doing. We see a problem. We see a need and we're providing a solution. Board members, do you have any questions? Oh, go ahead. What's the maximum? Is it just women or is it women men? This will be just women in this house. And what's the maximum number of women? 10. So, you've got what? Six bedrooms in there. Um, there are five bedrooms. Five bedrooms.

And how many bathrooms? Two. When I saw it said I thought it said one bathroom, I thought that's a lot, but you are having someone there 24 hours to monitor. Um, and how many cars do you think you'd have there?

Um, so we have with this being right across the street from um the sports complex. We've talked to the parks department about using that lot there for daytime parking and they're on board with that. They're fine with that. We don't anticipate many cars because usually these women will be coming, like I said, out of jail or prison. A lot of them don't even have their driver's license right now. So, it's part of one of the things they're be working towards. Um, so at any given time, we don't anticipating more than a couple residents having a car. Um, but we are also already looking into adding parking um at the house if we need to. Would they be required to pay rent? um they would pay a program fee

but not a weekly program rent. We don't consider it rent. We consider it like for programming and um is it is it required? I mean are they to work and there is a payment? It is required that they work and pay that weekly fee. Yes. I mean we're not going to necessarily evict anybody if they're not paying it but um you know we would work out a payment plan for that. Do you know if there are other recovery houses in close proximity to I'm not aware of any on the hilltop or well um

so I guess um Jefferson House which used to be downtown is now on um Bear Street. So that that would be the closest. I believe there was also a recovery house similar on East 2nd Street and I think St. Michael's. Yes, that on the corner. Yes, I believe that's part of um the Roof Haven. It sounds like the one that's part of the Roof Haven um program. And I do remember at that meeting there was great concern that there would be drunken boyfriends outside howling and yelling and how's that turn out? kinds of tumold and you don't even know those people are there, right?

Will there be a limit on visitors there? Yes, there yes, there's a strict visit policy. Um, all visitors would have to be approved ahead of time and visiting hours are only on Saturday and Sunday for three or four hours. Children, any children not living in the program? No. No. Staying overnight or No, no, no, no, no. They could visit during visiting hours. Okay,

that would be it. Any other questions or comments, board members, concerns? Uh, well, thank you, ma'am. Would anyone in the audience in interest of brevity could, if you're in favor of this, could you just hold up your hand?

Okay. Well, like I say, we could go till 3 in the morning. We've done it before, but all these other board members, well, two of them work for a living. Uh, so would anybody opposed to this like to speak? Yes, ma'am. Come on up. Yes. To the podium and give your name and address.

My name is Carla McCullum. I live at 1842 Wolf Trails. I'm 3/4 of a mile from where this proposed location is going to be. The other house in the area is exactly two miles from uh the for just two miles from where this location will be. Um I am completely opposed to this for several reasons. The main reason is it is literally right across the street from the sports complex. I run up and down that road every day. I'm a long-distance runner. I see the traffic. There's children riding their bikes. There's no way an additional 10 person house and their staff is not going to cause a problem with traffic on that road. There's nowhere to put a parking lot in that on that residence. So, um um I had a whole speech planned out here, but I just I have 11 grandchildren. They ride their bike up and down that road all the time. I just feel as though the additional vehicles and traffic and whatnot from this house will cause too many problems with children constantly in and out of that parking lot. I mean, they're literally from here to you from the parking lot of that uh house. So, I respectfully ask that you consider turning down this conditional permit for the safety of our children.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I have some letters from other residents. Yes, you can bring them up and we will submit them in evidence. And I have received a letter from Rebecca Brinsson and Sarah Roblette. I move we accept these letters into the public record. Second. All in favor say I. I. Oppos? No. And here members can look them over. And yes, sir. Did you want to speak? Yes, sir.

Come on up and give your name and address for the record, please. Uh, my name is Jacob McCollum, 617 Green Road. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to come before the body and just say a couple words. I know we're short on time, so I'll try to speak rather quickly. Um, the thing is I know that there can be a very emotional uh set of please back and forth on a topic like this. Um, I've spent 16 years in the Indiana Army National Guard. I'm a field grade officer and I understand that things don't come down to emotional decision-making. and things come down to procedural decision-m and that's why this body exists. The fact of the matter is it's an unfair use to say that the Rucker Sports Complex is an acceptable parking solution for a business. What if I wanted to open what if the nail salon had been across the street from that? You denied that. I couldn't park over there at the sports complex, but this provisional use you could. That doesn't make a lot of sense. You're obviously familiar enough with the current zoning to know that this provisional use does constitute a room and board property and under the you the new and forthcoming UDO, it wouldn't even be considered for such a use. It wouldn't be a thing. It wouldn't be able to come before the body for that conditional use. If you take a look at the property, um, and it's kind of hard to tell in the in the little picture here, but the the fact of the matter is the front yard is no more than 15 feet from the doorstep from the the concrete pad. You can't park in the yard according to the current ordinances. The side parking, maybe there's room for two vehicles. Well, dag on. I live in an area where you have to shuffle cars in and out and you know darn well pulling in and out of green road like that. That's just not going to work. And the reality is we can say that there's not going to be a lot of vehicular traffic or a need for parking

in a facility like this. But if you got 10 people there that are supposedly in recovery, and it's not just a drug clubhouse, the fact of the matter is that you're going to need to park a staff, visitors, residents, clergy, medical response vehicles, law enforcement officers, and anybody else that needs to come in and out of there. I think it's unreasonable and unfair to say that we're going to use public property for the administration of this business. Um, frankly, I think that if you I I have a I we talk about if we want to bring up the whole internet thing. I don't like internet fights and all this stuff, but I do enjoy reading them. Um, I will continue to issue the challenge that I issue, if we want to talk about the emotions of it instead of just the just the rules and regulations of it. if somebody could say could bring me verified and meaningful studies that these recovery houses work and that the local recovery houses are not anything more than organized financial fraud. I myself will write checks to support these things but just saying oh there's studies what are these studies I urge you to take a look at the recidivism rates at the existing houses I ask you to take a look at the folks administering these programs this is all anecdotal of course but I would say if you walked in and tested the folks running these other houses they wouldn't be able to pass a drug test but that's not the point the Point is unfortunately this this facility does not meet the criteria because of the parking. There's no more than 10 or 15 ft. The side thoroughare that leads into the property going behind it. You'd have you could maybe stack two very small vehicles in there. It's an unfair use to say that we're going to use the extremely busy sports complex. I have two kids that I take to soccer matches up there and dag on it, if you ever

tried to take a kid in the middle of summer during soccer season, you know, you may as well just park at home and walk down Green Road to the sports complex. It's full. Um, that's all I have to say. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

My name is Connie McCullum, 507 Miles Ridge Road. First of all, I want to say that I've been in uh addiction recovery work for many decades. I ran the addiction recovery uh program at the prison. I created the re-entry program for the prison that exists today. I've created much re-entry work for jails across this entire region. So, I want to tell you that I'm not against transitional housing. I'm not against recovery. I work and a lot of people that are here today in support of this I have worked with but I am against the location of this house. I do want to go back and say that Cherylyn gave some very rosy statistics but there are other statistics. 68% according to SAMA, 68% of people that enter into recovery in transitional housing fail within the first several months. So what happens when these people fail? What are the measures in place? What are they going to do about that? Where is the security? Also, um, what about the people that are working at the recovery house and doing the program? What is their credentiing? What is their track record? What is their record with the rest of the recovery homes? I too have been looking for the needs assessment for this program and and the company that I work for put people through recovery um, coaching. It's a two-week program. you get a little certificate. Does that make you an expert? Does that give you the expertise to manage others in this

incredible setting? So, you know, I'm worried that program management, do they have the right credentials in history? People that are coming in, are they going to stay clean and all of this? I'm not against transitional housing, but it's right in front of a park. Do you want all of this happening in front of the sports complex where hundreds of families bring their kids? Many of them drop their kids off. Is this what we want? Is this what we want people to see? A recovery home where we know people are going to fail. We know it. And the the the statistic is the majority of them were fail before they complete. Is this what we want in front of the park? My suggestion would be to deny the park location and put the house somewhere else where there's more privacy for the women, where there's more serenity for the women. Do you want a busy park back and forth while these women are trying to put their lives together? Is that what we want? No. No. This is a recipe for disaster and failure. And again, I state this not because I I'm against recovery. I'm all for it. But from my experience and my expertise and from my window, what I'm seeing, this is going to be a failure and it's going to be a disaster. Thank you.

Uh Mrs. Miller, would you like to come up and answer? I think there's one more person. Sure, why not? Would you like to speak, sir? Come on up.

My name is Douglas McDonald. I live at A15 Linear Drive. I live right next adjoining to that property. And I'm going to say I'm not against it. keep hearing you. But it's not the best location for it because my kids, I have two kids, my neighbors have three kids. We all cut through that property between our house, our fence, go to the sport complex. And I've have witnessed and seen drug deals go into that park right across from that house. You know how it goes. Slide of hand with money and I've seen it. Cops can't get there make it fast enough to get them. They're gone with I'm saying it right. Recovery house. Am I saying it right? I just want to make sure. I'm sorry. What the women there, what are they also going to be bringing companywise? Um, yeah, after hours there's still people going to be coming around. I'm not going to go on and on and on. I know we're short of time. Um, I don't think it's the best location because of the park. Plus you have uh a company a factory for disabled kids to work in

glass company I think it's across the sandstone. Yes sandstone that disabled people work there too and plus with our neighborhood kids. I don't think it's the best location. I'm that's where I'm going to stop because I know we're short of time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, somebody else like to speak against it. We'll give equal time to Oh, yeah. Come on up, sir.

Thank you. I'll be very, very quick. I promise. So, my name is Clint Tolbert. I'm the owner of Glass Unlimited, the direct neighbor to this. Um, I just want to say I do not oppose this program. I've heard everybody here. A lot of facts, a lot of emotion. I get all of that. My only concerns are just the logistics behind a 10person facility at this location, just like everybody else. uh considering the adjacency to my business. I just request that consideration is to be given to those logistics and to be sure that there's a clear plan in place that the whole community in that area, Sandstone, Glass Unlimited, the new preschool, the park, all those logistics are just fully understood and that there's a plan to so we're all on the same page if this were to move forward. That's all I request. Thank you.

Thank you, Jess. Good evening. My name is Mr. Martinez and um even though I don't live close to this area, I do live in Walnut and I bought a bunch of properties and uh that for some reason they all end up on Walnut when all it's finished done or evicted or does don't follow through with the program. They all most of them out of 68 I would say 50% end up in walnut and there's a lot of homeless a lot of people sleeping on the streets fighting in front of our houses in front of the rentals and we just don't need that. I'm opposed to having one anymore. We have so many already and they all end up for some reason they're drawn because of the soup kitchen and that's a magnet for them. And although I I believe we should help people, I'm a good I'm a big contributor to to that facility there, but we we have more than our share. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. Ou speak.

Yes. Warren Oxer, 3611 West Iowa Riverview Road, handover. And one item I am in favor of recovery houses. Support that. I don't support the uh location of this particular house. And the one thing I wanted to point out that I think needs to have some consideration. Currently, the property there is zoned R8, which is medium density residential. Under your new zoning classification, that will be an R2 location, which is also medium density residential. In the course of preparing the new UDO, you had a technical committee that spent a great deal of time working on it. One of the things they looked at and they put together when they did that, they added a particular use to your table of uses, which is now called recovery residence. That's listed in your uses. There's no longer a rooming and boarding house listing. That would fall elsewhere. And when you look at recovery residences under the new UDO, if it was in effect today, this use would not be permitted in an R2 zoning district. it is prohibited. It would not be a conditional use. It would not be exceptional use. So I believe they've taken a hard look and have reached the conclusion recovery residencies do not fit with a residential area. And when you look at this particular res residential area, the guidelines as far as meeting the on-site parking that would be needed and the various setbacks that are in your current ordinances for the parking, there's not been anything demonstrated that those parking would be permitted. It doesn't state in your ordinance the parking can be across the street, so on so forth. It specifically states on site certain setbacks and so forth from property lines and so forth. and there's not a way to meet it. It's not a question of whether recovery residents are good, bad, or whatever.

You know, the question is land use and does this recovery residence fit in an argu zoning district. And I would ask you deny it because I don't believe it does. And under the new UDO, the question wouldn't even be before you. Um, Miss Williams, would you care to comment on on the proposed what Mr. officer said that under the new UDO it wouldn't be allowed.

Yeah. Within um under the new UDO the way it's proposed now now it would be um considered recovery residence to kind of try to get the um more modern term for that nowadays. Um sorry. Uh so it would be a special exception with specific standards under a RA a R3 which is your current R32. um as well as your local business, general business, and CBD.

Uh my name is Tammy Hagmire. I was asked to come this evening probably because I'm an RN that specialized in alcohol and drug rehab and recovery. And the problem that I see for you folks that I feel a great deal of concern for you is you're approving a house, but you have no say on what the program is. So, for those of you who don't know, we had a death in the Jefferson house. We've had all types of problems in our other recovery homes. I like recovery homes. I think they're essential. But you're approving a house blindly, not knowing what the program is. We can have someone stand up in front of you and say, "We're going to do this and we're going to do that." But the reality is those things haven't been done and they currently are not required as part of the city process. So, I would encourage you to look at having um maybe revamping some of those applications along with your UDO and giving some consideration to the fact that you approve the house. Once you approve it, you have no say on what happens in that program. So, I wish you the best of luck. Thank you.

We've had quite a few. Uh, Miss Miller, would you like to come up and address? Seems one of the big things is parking.

Yeah, that seems to be the main issue. The last issue brought up by Miss Hagmire was a guarantee of what the program is and runs here to address that. I don't know what I sent you guys our handbook that outlines what the program is going to look like. Um I explained that we would be certified through the Department of Mental Health and Recovery Works. Those are state licensing certification boards. I don't know what else to tell you besides I mean that's a lot more oversight than the current what the current houses have.

How often are uh do would the state inspect your facility? Do they inspect it on a regular basis or annual or it might be every three years? I'm not positive about that. members. Any other questions? 10.

There's no scenario where there would be 10 cars. Well, during the day there would be the um you know the staff one you know one car belonging to a staff member um and I mean I can't predict But I just know from like in the past um with my experience at another women's recovery residence like at any given time there might have been two people there with a car. There might have been I mean if there were three that was accept an exception. Um so they just they're just not in a position in life where they have cars or even a driver's license. If it was just a normal house, you could expect two to three cars there. It was just someone living there.

For for me, the issue is on the weekends if they're allowed to have visitors only on the weekends. That's when Green Road really gets busy, especially in the summer. So, I I really don't think that the uh remedy of being able to park cars over at sports complex I I don't see that as a viable option. I noticed, ma'am, I believe that house still has no sale sign. Yeah, we have not purchased it yet.

It's all contingent on um zoning conditional use permit. Any other questions or comments, board members? I do have several people here who would like to speak um on behalf of the program recovery residences if they have an opportunity to speak.

Well, we had I believe four people speak against so just pick out three people who would like to speak for equal time pretty much. Hi, my name is Maggie Parks and I live at 2551 Franks Drive and um I want to be the voice of one of those women that have successfully completed one of the recovery programs here in Madison because you're looking at one of them right now. And what I want to stress is the importance of these programs in Madison because I was born and raised here. And had it not been for a recovery program, then I would probably be back in jail or back in prison because that's where I came to. I attended another uh recovery home here in Madison and that was in 2021. And what I want to tell you is that program helped me to be who I am today. There is no way that I would ever be speaking in front of a board of of directors or anything like that uh before today if it was not for the program and the hard work that I put in to become a product member of society. And today I own my own home. I have um you know I have a car. I have a wonderful job. I work in environmental labs as a lab tech team lead and um me and my husband also have custody of our granddaughter and I would have never been able to do those things had it not been for a recovery program. So I just want to speak of how that is such a benefit to to our uh to our town because

it's a social problem whether anybody wants to really look at addiction or not. It is a social problem and you can look at it in through so many different social perspective lenses and that's why so many different people have so many different perspectives on what works, what doesn't work, you know, all kinds of different different perspectives on it is because it can be viewed in so many different lenses. But, you know, I just want to be the voice of of all those women that are going to need this, you know, and just because the 68% uh, you know, fail, you know, the great thing about statistics is that they can be changed and they can be changed by programs like this. Thank you. Hello, my name is Cheryl Bear and I live at 553 Miller Street. So, uh, I am one of the ones that has came through the roof haven program here. I graduate the program. I, um, I work with some schools and mental health every single day. I'm not going to get up here and say that I know all of these copes and stuff about parking and all that, but what I do know is that recovery does work. Um, I'm sitting in here tonight with my daughter who my whole life, my whole family's life has been changed because of recovery. I am going through criminal law and myself at Ivy Tech. Recovery does work. And I know probably anybody in this thing in this room tonight can sit here and say that at least one person in their family has recovered because of recovery. And I all these women whoever is to come into this county and the city we do have a we should at least have given them a chance because it does work. Take one or two more folk like to speak

for this application.

John Fortwind. Uh I live at uh I live up on Interstate Block Road. Um, I am a uh 3955 Western Interstate Block Road. Um, I moved here about eight years ago uh to Madison. Um, when I moved here, I uh my wife was pregnant with our first child. Um, I was kind of scared to death. I was very early in recovery. Um, and uh about 8 months after I moved here, I actually had a slip up. And um 3 days later uh I checked myself into the Jefferson house down here. Uh there was a completely different director there. At the time the program was uh different um than what it is now. Now it features a more faith-based uh concept um and things like that. Uh when I went through it uh we worked the 12 you know 12 it was 12step program. Um I can tell you that today uh I have uh worked the same job uh here in one month. It'll be it'll be four years um at a uh well at a place that's been uh operational here in Madison for 100 years. Um I actually am a a leader over one of the most important lines in that factory uh on day shift, day in day out. Uh I am trusted with a whole lot of things. I used to not be able I used to live in my car. I used to not be able to wasn't trusted with anything uh by anybody including my own family. Uh, and I I can tell you that that not only does recovery work, but recovery houses work. And you know uh I get the obstacle about parking and um is there I mean expanding the driveway a little bit uh laying down some new

gravel there in between that uh that business that the the young man came up and spoke about. You know like I feel like uh there would be some solutions to some of these problems. Um, you know, if if Green Road is so busy and everyone all the kids are riding their bikes up and down it, I feel like that's dangerous. You know what I mean? I I don't I I don't see how you can have it both ways. Uh, also, you know, with the people that uh I know that I just heard about like moneyaundering and other things. The people that I know that are that are on this board, most of them are certified in peer recovery specialists. Uh, I mean, we have an attorney on the board. We have, uh, licensed therapists on the board, all with experience in addiction recoveries. I mean, honestly, it's one of the better put together boards that I've that I've seen that know that know the disease and know recovery inside and out. to be honest, I I there's not I mean, like any like any program, I'm sure that there'll be some hiccups and things like that that will need to be, you know, corrected as time goes, but um I personally have full faith in the program and and whether it be here or somewhere, it it it's coming. I I know that. And uh you know, Madison Madison needs it. I mean, it breaks my heart. downtown driving around, especially during the summertime. A lot of a lot of the homeless people are out and about and uh not all that's due to drug uh addiction, but I'm sure that somewhere throughout their story, just like many people in here, it it it's affected them in one way or another, whether it be yourself, whether it be a family member, a friend, or whatever. Um, I know that, you know, I lost my cousin uh three years ago as of a couple days

ago from a fentanyl overdose and uh this is it's it's needed here, you know. I mean, it is it's right here. It's right here in little old Madison. Big problem. Shows up every day. Thank you very much. Thanks. Seems like so far obviously everybody is in favor of a recovery but there seems I was going to I did pull up the PVA data too just in case that helps to see where the it's GIS so the lines are going to be approximate but you can see where that partial is versus Google

seems like the major objection parking is relatively minor and can easily be addressed in motion but it seems like a lot of people think while recovery is 32% of the time anyway successful and that it's a good thing and it's needed but the specific house seems to be an issue. So would anybody like to say why the specific location is a very good thing that I would ask somebody who might want to address that? Not about whether recovery is a good thing but why the specific locations.

Okay. So um my guess is no matter where we try to put a house there's going to be somebody some people who have all of these same concerns and issues. Uh it's does somebody have a suggestion? Does somebody have a good location for this house? Cuz we'd love to find it. We've been looking. We spent over a year looking for a place. This is This is a house that fits the needs for has enough space and fits the needs for what we're trying to do. Does it have to be 10 women? Could you go fewer women?

We could go fewer women. This this particular house just happens to be enough space for 10 women. Um, you know, if it was eight, it's eight. Um, we like the hilltop location because speaking from experience, um, dealing with houses that were have been downtown, a lot of the people work on the hilltop. They get jobs in factories, Madison Precision and, you know, Arvin Sango in these places and it's it's a huge barrier for them to get up the hill and get to work. Paying a cat, it's very expensive because most of them don't have vehicles. So being on the hilltop um helps alleviate some of that some of that problem with you know them being able to get to work. We now have some nice sidewalks on Michigan Road and Clippy Drive and um you know the ability to walk to some of those employment places of employment is um a big um that's a benefit to being on the hilltop as well. Um, I wanted to um mention quickly, I forgot to mention this earlier. Um, I don't remember who it was that had the concern. A couple people mentioned a concern about kids being at the park. And I don't know if they think that women in this program are going to be getting drugs and going over there and trying to give drugs to kids or deal their drugs to kids. I I guess that's the concern. But they're within a mile of this of the sports complex and the park. There's 10 registered sex offenders. I'd be way more concerned about those people going over to the park and praying on children than um than drug dealers. So,

wait a minute, folks. Do most of the programming happen though inside? I mean, are the women outside that often to be honest? the downtown adult. How many are adults?

The programming takes place inside the house or out at um AA and NA meetings in the community um at local mental health centers, lifespan concern about parking. I mean it's obviously we've we've discussed it too. It's not, you know, I mean, it's not ideal for parking, but that's, you know, we are willing to look into whatever options. We also know that parking across the street at the at the complex isn't ideal. That is a temporary solution that was discussed with the parks department that they were fine with until we um you know are in a position where we need extra parking and you know have time to look more into that and um remedy that situation. Like I said earlier, we're not we want to be good neighbors. We're not trying to come into the neighborhood and cause problems or be disruptive or anything like that. I just I have the experience of having worked with these programs before and I just know that that was not a problem. It was it's not a disruption to the neighborhood.

Are you affiliated at all with Ruth Haven? Not not currently. I was a founding board member of Reef Haven and was involved with with that organization for probably 10 years or more. Any other questions board members? So, oh, so with the new UDO, this would not be allowed.

Not within what we would call the R1 or R2 districts, which is currently um R4 and R8, I believe, off the top of my head. Um, districts, and it's just more of a density type of thing typically is why uh when we went through that with the committee. Um, again, these can vary in size. They could be just a couple of of folks or they could be a lot larger than 10, right? Um, so it's just more of a density is typically why that got within that category. So are we under I mean are we requ

Yes, you you filed your application under the current ordinance. So you are following even if it changed tomorrow, you know, you would still be following the current ordinance at the time you filed. So that's what we placement. Okay. Well,

thank you very much. Thank you. We've heard plenty of arguments. The main opposition is about parking. uh heavily traveled street by kids and seems from what I'm hearing nobody has there some opposition to and as I mentioned before a number of years ago that house over there back. I heard much of the same opposition, so not so much. But that house to my knowledge, it's almost a case where nobody even knows who's in it. In fact, I drove by it last week and saw a light on. I've never even seen a light on in that place. So uh if this board big if this board would approve it would be for a period of time would be subject to conditions which could address parking. You know in a conditional use permit you can say condition no off no parking off property. And uh you can do a conditional use permit. You can say how many cars are allowed there two cars typical. Uh and you can also specify that they have to follow program.

And when you make a conditional use with various other conditions like that with your neighbors, if you find somehow they violated it, you can always come back and complain. It's happened here. Remember famously there was a hotel out on East Main Street that evolved into essentially a drug addict clubhouse and people just utterly blew up in a city council meeting in that hotel because the offending owner decided it was far better to you know dodge keep this thing going. So if So as if if the board were to approve, there are conditions and there are remedies for abuses. And if you come before the board of zoning appeals to say this is a $50 court, it's not a $5,000 program and this board has enough authority that it can begin litigation against uses. So there is some even if if hear me if it work you do have remedies uses but once again I'll iterate that I have seen or heard uh people with concerns very similar to yours on that roof haven house and in the number of years it's been there has never been a problem to my knowledge. inside or outside. Now, what the percentage of women in that in that house over there fail or succeed, I

don't know. But from the point of view of neighbors, you have to have a way that you can remedy abuses. And I think if you were to approve this that you would have a way remedies and then if it works perfectly and nobody makes any trouble and you don't even know they're there and that obates. That's all I have to say. Got it. Before we go into any board discussions, can we just verify if someone did get a mailer, like the actual mail, certified mail, just according to your rules, making sure that they do have the opportunity to speak if they got the mailer itself.

If you all Yeah, I know two did, but I if anybody else who got one wanted to speak, I just want to make sure that they have the opportunity specifically just since they were in a joiner. Yeah, those notices are mailed out to adjacent property owners. So, if you live not adjacent. Yeah. And just cuz your rules state that they do get to specifically speak. So um you've heard plenty of discussion.

Let me ask one more question. You said there are visiting hours for on weekends. Okay. What are those effect hours or have you set them yet or do you have the time you think you'd have them? I believe you come up to the microphone. Visiting hours are designated between 12 and 6 um with no more than a 4hour visit. Um but it would have to be in that time frame on both on Saturday. You could have a visit on Saturday or Sunday if you were a resident of the program. 12:00 p.m. or 6 p.m.

most of the time because they're able to earn weekend passes to go off to go see visit their family, go home, go wherever. That's usually what they do. They don't want to stay there on the weekends. They usually go, but those visiting hours are there for the ones who aren't haven't phased up yet and able to leave leave grounds. And you said they have to call beforehand so it's not people just going to show up. Right. Right. Uh ma'am, is your handbook is that available for public to look at?

And I have one other question, ma'am. Sorry. Yeah. Uh what could you tell me another you say you've had experience using the rules in this handbook. Could you give us another place another recovery place location like another recovery residence like in another town or

well where someplace else that these rules apply. Well, so I mean these are our these are our specific rules for our specific program. They are very similar to rules in other programs, but um you know like there's Genesis House over in Cordon that has a very similar handbook to ours. Um um Breakaway in New Albany is another one that has a similar um handbook to ours. Those are women's recovery residents. There are men's like House of New Beginnings over in Cordon. Um, help me guys. Bliss House in um, Jeffersonville.

So, your board and your organization, is this your first venture? This specific board? Yes. Um, but there are some people on the board who have experience and have been involved with other recovery residences. Um we have um a person on our board right now who is also on a board um of a similar residence in um Harrison County, but um people have different experience levels and could I assume you're a board member? Is that public knowledge? Yep. So neighbors are concerned people want to see who's on board and they're

Yeah. Everybody's listed on our Facebook page, um, Recovery Foundation of Southern Indiana, but I'm also happy to share that list with anybody. Y So, if the neighbors had a an issue, um, is there a contact person that is readily available? Anybody on our board? And as soon as I mean, whenever the house is up and running, it would be, you know, the whoever we have working there as the um um director of the house. You said somebody 24 hours, correct? There'll be somebody. Yeah. Somebody there during the day and then a different person who will stay there at night. And just drove by. You're not going to have any sign. You won't even know.

But the person at night is somebody that lives there, right? Yes. Well, not in the program, but there will be a it'll be somebody who like has has a bed there, who sleeps there, stays there at night. um who's that's their job at night is to make sure people are in by curfew. Make sure there's no nothing going on. It's not supposed to be happening. Nobody prowling around outside. Like I said, we will have cameras and those will be able to be monitored by phone as well by anybody um you know involved with the program. But um you know just to make sure that things are on the up and up through the evening and um nighttime hours.

Thank you. Sorry. I guess that's uh we've had plenty of comment on so in interest of time we will declare the comment session closed. Um this is a conditional get this straight. This is a conditional use permit application under category 121 rooming boarding house current zoning ordinance best application. Um go through our findings fact since this is an issue of some controversy. Normally we would just in interest of time I would just go down the list here which you can easily find on the internet or you can ask for normally I would just say do you have any objections or members but we'll go through it for the sake of everybody involved here. Uh so number one is 121 the correct conditional use category Mr. Paris

under the current ordinance. Uh, yes. Mrs. Burkart. Yes. Mr. Eagle. Yes. And I believe that's the closest one.

Uh, number two. Do you agree this would be harmonious with in accordance with the general objectives, specific objectives of the comprehensive plan? Time out. There is a comprehensive plan that was written for Madison. There's a copy of it here. And if you wish to read it, you paid for it. It's your property. You can read it. It's no secret. We don't hide things here. And you can see one of the staff members if you want to read it. It's about a thick and the zoning ordinance is also part of it. Uh and the comment. So do you agree this is harmonious with in accordance to the general objectives or specific objectives of comprehensive plan Mr. Ferris? I do. I think it's a you know definite need in our uh community and I think it does fit in a comprehensive plan.

Mrs. Burkart, I think it does.

Mr. Engagland and uh the general objectives. That's a tough one for me to answer because I'm not so certain the comprehensive plan directly addresses recovery centers being neutral on that one. Number three, uh do you board members agree this will be designed, constructed, maintained, harmonious, appropriate in appearance with the existing or intended character of the general fac will not change the essential character of the same area? Pick one on it. So when your reasons, Mr. Ferris? Well, as far as the construction and design, I don't know that we've really seen a lot of information about what their plans are with the structure. Um, but the intended character and general vicinity, um, I I don't I don't think that's met. I don't I don't think that that fits the general character of that vicinity. Mrs. Burkhard,

um I don't think it'll change the central character. I live across from the youth shelter, a little block and a half from another residential facility. has changed the character of my experience with it as I explained to you is with the Ruth Haven house where I was in the meeting where that thing was voted on and to my knowledge there has never been any adverse effects from that. know the general character of that area. It's a sports complex. It's a small business. It's some residential. It's access to more residential on further on toward the west. So, but on the other hand, the roof haven house is in a certainly a less densely used area on out on the east side. speaking from my experience. So, uh I don't know. I would have to say it's probably not the best use. Uh number four.

Oh, yeah. That would be Sorry.

Okay. You don't pay much for me. You don't get much. Number four. You agree this will not be hazardous or disturbing to existing or future neighboring uses. Mr. Paris. You know, I think with the track record of previous uh applications that have come before this board and you've commented on on it several times, um I I don't see this as being uh disturbing to the neighbors or the neighborhood.

Mrs. Burkart. No, I don't think it would be disturbing.

Uh, Mr. Eagland. And uh given my what I've seen of a similar use on the other side of town, I don't I didn't number five. This is the one. Are there adequate public facilities, utilities, uh all that kind of stuff? Mr. Ferris.

Yeah. I mean, I think all of the services could easily accommodate, you know, this this house. I mean, a family of 10 could buy this house, renovate it, and move in. So, I think that's This is her card. Yeah. Mr. Eagle. And I see absolutely no issues there. I think that number six, do you agree this will not create excessive requirements at public expense, public facilities and services not detrimental to the economic welfare of the community? Mr. Paris,

I I don't see any issues there. I'll address my concerns and some of these other facts.

Mrs. Burkard. Mr. England already and my opinion with appropriate limitations on any motion. I don't number seven. You agree this will not involve uses, activities, process, materials, equipment, conditions of operation that are detrimental to any person's property or the general welfare of my excess production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes, liquor, odors. Mr. Ferris,

no, I don't I don't think there's any issues there. Um, the tra traffic on on that road is is already uh busy, so Again, a family of 10 could move in there and we normally approve, you know, a situation like that. So, I don't see I don't see traffic being an issue. Mrs. Burkart, I don't make good conditions to limit any other cars that they have.

Mr. Engagland and uh I think that would be a minimal issue like that. Number eight, this is about having vehicular approaches to the property not creating interference with traffic on surrounding roads. Mr. marriage. I I do have concerns about the vehicular approaches, but I think if uh if we word a motion adequately, I think that can be addressed. Mrs. Burkart,

Mr. And in my view that would not be much of an issue. So I number nine last one destruction loss or damage of natural scenic historic features major importance Mr. Paris. Well, I would hope that the uh applicant is going to improve the ma maintenance on this house and and u do what she said and that's be a good neighbor. Don't run a nieces. This is Birkhard.

Mr. England and I don't think that's an issue at all really. Well, we've gone through our findings of fact. I must remind you board members it's considered that if you have gone through the nine each of you has gone through the nine criteria and if you think that one of them fails it's generally considered you would not vote for it. But I want to reiterate you can vote any way you want to board members. So, and if we make a motion, we can either make a motion to uh allow it for a set amount of time with conditions, make us to give concerned people as much opportunity to correct abuses, or we can make a motion just flat out deny. And since this is a five member board, three votes determines whatever happens. So good. So take a motion. Have a second. A second. Okay. And do we have a roll call? Oh, wait. Let's make sure if motion is to deny. So, if you vote yes on the motion, it means you want to deny it.

Correct. Yes means no. Deny correct. All right. Uh Rick Rick Ferris. Yes. Uh Scott Bal. Um yes. Nancy.

So that's three votes against and one vote for. So one motion condition. It was the motion was to deny it. So to deny

the application was therefore denied with a 3 to one vote. Right. Verify. So ma'am, your next move to try to find something else probably if the new zoning ordinance passes because political. If it passes, you probably couldn't use that house anyway. And if I read the crowd correctly, nobody's opposed to what you're doing. The opposition was where it was. So apparently you have in my view you have community support for what you're doing but somehow you got to find a place to do it. So thank you folk uh input. Now there are probably many of you who are here for this application. So we're going to take a one minute recess while you if you want to leave you can leave. Please just go somewhere and don't make noise so that the rest of the people can be heard. like a whole

but there was huge opposition to it. Yeah. The people was I was on the board. They don't want it in their neighborhood. Yeah. guy convinced her boyfriend.

If you folks are leaving, would you My daughter declare our one minute recess over. Okay. Ring a bell, sister Francine. That's all I'm used to. Back to school. Okay. If

we can bring the meeting to order. Next item on the agenda is BZCU-25-29, Fred Low and Bruce and Cheryl T. Bruce and Cheryl Candy requesting a conditional use approval under number 476 retail relay towers and transmitting stations to make a new telecom tower at 316 North Bowens Road. So, somebody come up, give your name and address for the record, explain what you're doing. Hi, my name is Fred Laauo. Um, Chay Tower Consultants here representing Tag Towers. Um, we are applying for a special exception on the Tandis property. Uh, there the new address, I guess, is 316 De Moines Road. Um, I usually try to walk through just a little bit how we got here. Um, basically I am a a contractor and I get contacted when a carrier identifies a problem area or what they call a gap area in their service coverage and then they contact uh a tower company and my office and we work together um to look at two things. one where they want to be and if we can acquire property rights in a place that will meet their coverage uh coverage needs the improvement they're trying to do. Second thing we got to we tried to do is make sure we meet the zoning requirements that you all have in place to try to make sure that we don't have to go through um any unnecessary steps. So in this case, uh we talked to the Tandies and were able to come to a

agreement on leasing that property for this, uh intent of putting a communications tower at that corner. Uh we also had the RF group review um the location that we chose to make sure it would work for them on a technical basis to fill in that gap that I talked about. The original proposal was for a 250 ft self-sport tower and we had the RF review that for two reasons in this situation we have the airport overlay that's very near very close to us as well. So we wanted to limit the height of the tower as much as we could. So, we lowered that tower height to 195 foot with a 4ft lightning rod and we also uh got FAA determination of no hazard result back which I also submitted um which indicates we don't have to light the pole um and they are they have found it to be no hazard in the location that we put it relative to the airport. So, that was one thing that we really wanted to make sure we had in our pocket before we went any further with the design. Um, we submitted zoning drawings. Hopefully you guys have have seen those. Um, and this is part of that zoning drawing. Um, we are utilizing what was already basically a uh a corner of that field that had some equipment, some out buildings that was was removed recently. Um, and we're using an existing what was the act drive at least a close proximity to what was already used for the farming equipment to access the the property. Um, one thing that we also did statute says is the setback for a tower needs to be defined by uh engineering design letter. So we did go ahead and

submit an engineering design letter. uh that design letter was uploaded and indicates that the fall radius for this tower which means the the radius that it would actually occupy it if in the unlikely event that it would fail it would fail basically bending over on itself and within 50t uh radius of the tow which keeps it confined to that property that it's on. Uh this is an unmanned facility um but we We'll talk about that a little bit more. U my RF engineer did submit a statement of of me um that we uploaded as well. And basically he's just trying to improve dead areas between two of their existence sites there near Highway 56. Um this we also uh submitted propagation maps showing the current level of service from what their data shows and then the resultant cover coverage after this site is uh is built. This site is designed for more than one carrier. U the intent is always to to maximize the number of carriers on on any given pole. Um and thing that I didn't mention when we first uh started trying to fill this gap trying to find a property we did look to see if there was any existing structures that just colllocate on because that's quicker to market and lower cost for us but there were none available which is why we need to propose structures how much there are a bunch of I think that's a 765,000 volt mission line goes down close there.

Okay. And your tower compared to the height of those towers, how much taller is it than the power towers? I wouldn't know for sure, but I think my my experience is those are about 75 foot, 80 foot. So, we're going to be about twice as highish. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's not I mean, I know that's on the record now, but that is my best recollection. are they're smaller in size compared to those towers.

Yeah. The the tower that we propose is is got a footprint. The face size is about 25 to 30 foot per side of that triangle and it all fits in within that 75 ft by 75 ft compound. Do you do you put provision for Madison's public service needs there like repeater code police or fire or anything like that? Yes, we've done that in the past. No, we don't have that written into the contract, but typically it means that the municipality will contact the tower company and work out a reasonable uh contract. you have to find sign a lease to serve life cover but we do it all the time and typically if they don't need the tip top of the tower it's absolutely no problem so say they needed a repeater at 80 ft that's that doesn't take up any space that's needed for anybody else and that's always

so that's what accommodate something like that just yes you just have to go through the contractual stuff oh yeah make sure it's okay but Yeah. So, the tower has the possibility of making sure Madison's emergency communications get better. Yes.

Yes. That's one of that's one of the reasons we designed it for more than one carrier is to make sure that we don't run into a situation where somebody needs it and we can't structurally handle it. Now, it's a cost issue all the way around. So, that's why we built the compound a little bit bigger than we needed. We also built the tower a little bit stronger than Do you have any other towers around the area here? The the tag towers was built not in the immediate vicinity. We built them all through Kentucky, Ohio, and Michigan. Um certainly would be uh fairly easy to get one almost identical, I would think. But I don't know one within driving distance of Madison. Uh we are getting ready to build one in Bloomington, but it's not built yet. So, that don't help me.

Have you ever had a tower hit by a tornado? Uh, well, I haven't personally. Um, but if you go back and look at uh uh what happened in Joplin, Missouri, and if you look at photos of the after effects of those, the only things that will be standing is the towers, but everything else is pretty much wiped out. So, from that experience and what I've seen in the field,

the these are very safe and not meant to fall down. Again, we have the fall the fall design letter basically points out the weakest point in that tower. And this is what's going to happen if it ever came to failure. And basically just folds in on itself. The weakest point that leg is about halfway down that tower. Your pros generator. I guess you have an equipment room and the generator backup. Um will there be a fuel supply? Yes. At this height? Yes. Above ground? Below ground? above ground and uh it will likely I I believe it's designed to be propane. Okay.

And they show the propane tank on the on the design here. Okay. So, and that's because of the close proximity to the to the water source to the to the west. But most of the time there will be absolutely no noise generator running. Right. They used to back in the day when I started doing this, they would have a big concrete shelter that they would bring in. Yeah.

And set it on for about 35,000 lbs and cost a billion dollars and have two big old HBAC units that would run intermittently in was problematic because it was louder than your house. Right. Um, now that they they've stripped back all that design to be more green and save money. Um, and so now we don't put in a a big equipment shelter. There's not a need for large HBAC units. Uh, the only noise of any appreciable amount will be when they run that generator on Monday morning at 10:00 a.m. just to cycle it. Do that every week.

Yeah, they do that once a week. And that decel level is about the same as a a household air conditioner. Okay. You had to pack them full of air conditioning units on cuz the computer Oh, yeah. And switch there, they were so large and now it's almost PC control. Do everything in these cabinets now is all DC. Yep. The heat dissipation isn't a problem. Uh with the DC units, it's just they they've stripped it down to where they almost don't need air handlers on them. Um, but they're all external equipment. Uh, and like I said, we don't have the big shelters anymore. So, that was kind of more convenient for everybody.

Now, who will check the uh your supply tank every now and then? Who comes in does that or that spent the transmission? Yeah, we'll contract it locally. Okay. And then our maintenance group, the the carrier maintenance group will have that monitored.

And that's the other thing. There'll be fiber running to this site. They monitor these sites remotely. Okay. Very rarely now that you need to send a technician out or really anything equipment wise. They can make the antenna adjump adjustments remotely. They can monitor the basically the entire site uh to make sure what's going on. And like I said, they cycle that generator. They don't come out to do it. They just cycle it for 15 minutes and then shut it back down. So any possible There is I think one house on that bend in the road there. So, they would essentially hear nothing. Correct. Except for a few minutes. Yeah.

And and traffic to these facilities, like I said, they're all monitored remotely. I always quote, "You're going to have one passenger post construction, one passenger vehicle monitoring truck maybe coming back once a quarter. They'll come out and check and make sure everything's weeded and and maintained. uh power. How long is your lease for this tower plan? Uh 50 years you expect total. What's that? Is that the expected life of the tower?

Uh no sir, that's just uh the standard lease length at the moment. Um these towers will last until we take them down. Uh they I know you've seen the big old four the original 1818 towers that are fourlegged. Those things have been standing till since the 70s and I don't think they're planning on taking them anywhere. There's one right in downtown Terote that time. Uh but those things are are built to last and they're galvanized steel. Uh, so it fights the corrosion and yeah, they're they're good for good long until Elon Musk figures out how to put us completely out of the business trying

no comment. Board members, any other questions, comments? The other documentation he referred to the fall zone FAA clearance that was all in your digital packet. I did not print out the full thing unless um I think you do. I think Rick has a full print out too, but um that documentation was all in there. Hey, do you know how we've done these cars before? Um I do not. And that's one thing that um we've had discussions on in terms of uses. If you're not changing a use and you're not changing anything you're doing about it, the idea of renewing it uh is a little bit more limited. Um, we had

so a similar tower. I remember what it was. It was a couple years ago. And it went in a there were a series of five-year leases. Six 5-year leases for a total of 30 years. Yeah. Same same situation. So, we approved a 30-year additional use, a six five year. Was that the one at the Nights of Columbus? I believe it was. Oh, well, I'm I was here talking to you about that one. So, this is my second time. I haven't seen one there yet. What's that? Haven't seen a tower there. I I don't know that they ever built it, but you guys approved it.

We approved it, but that was how it was done through the leasing the total leasing period agreement, not the

Yeah. and coming on. I know again we've talked a lot about new ordinances and whatnot under the new ordinance under kind of following what state statute would be in Indiana state statute, not Kentucky. We get a little mixed up here on the river. Um that if there's a violation, right, of some sort, we would go through and we would we would actually attack that or remedy that through a violation. So that would be a violation notice and um following up. It could be litigation if that's the extent it needs to go to. Um but if you are not changing the use, redoing the use that that renewal is really a moot point. Um if that makes sense because at that point you can't you can't deny it. If there is an issue it comes through with enforcement and penalties and you know I mean that aspect with any use not just the cell tower but with any any of our conditional uses. So, um, just to point that out that you don't necessarily need the time frames on those, um, within that parameter because, again, um, and moving forward in the new ordinance, we aren't looking at doing renewals by any means. So,

any other questions, comments, board members? Would anybody in the audience like to speak for or against this proposed use? And we will see none we will move on to our findings of fact this time board members in interest of time I'll just go down the list and ask with your permission of course I'll ask anybody disagrees criterion met uh number one 476 relay towers any problems with that?

No. Number two, uh that's comprehensive plan. Any problems? Uh number three, uh the existing or general area harmonious etc. Yes. Any issues? No. Number four, disturbing, hazardous, any issues? No. Number five, these are the utilities and so forth. Any issues? Number six, uh, detrimental to economic welfare. Any issues? Nope.

I might add, everything is done on a cell phone. No problem there. Uh, number eight, uh, vehicular approaches property. Any issues? No. So maybe once a month for the vehicle. So

there are no, there is no issue. The number nine, loss of natural or beautiful scenic things. Well, having gone through our finding fact, I move we approve this conditional use-25-29 for a period of 30 years and that it follow the uh application information. That's my motion. And all in favor say I. I.

No. We have another cell tower, which is probably a good thing. That's been a dead spot out there somewhere.

I remember when you went to New Got about a mile south of 56 and had to get out your signal class. Uh, next item on the agenda, uh, BZCU-26-01, Angela Coler, Mark and Angela Coler, under 749, other recreation, conditional use, construct and operate a campground with owner occupied primary dwelling, two short-term rental structures, two low impact lamping tents, six primitive tent sites, small structure, bathrooms and showers. You like to come up, ma'am, explain what you'd like to do. Yes, sir. You, too. Give your name and address for the record.

And you were here. You were here recently, August. Yeah. just in August. That was their last one was approved. It was BZC 2512. If you could Oh, there we go. Airbnb house. So, is that included in what you're doing now? That's one of the Okay. Okay. No.

Thank you. And just for the record, board, we should approve this into the the record. I move we accept this hand out into the public record. Second. All in favor say I. I.

No. Okay. Go ahead, folks. So, we're local property owners here and we currently operate a very short. We want to clarify this proposal. Our goal was the first question. That's

Yep. So there's actually two or I'm sorry and then the next we have multitudes of Airbnbs and things this nature with roles. My knowledge there's been one complaint so far. Thank you for

uh so board members, do you have any questions, comments? Uh, of course, anytime you have something where there's a lot of activity, this that the other, you know, whether you go to a local gym, you know, they do have some safety things like uh let's say somebody has a heart attack, you know, those kind of things hanging around where you will you supply those cuz you could have several people here at a particular time. I'm trying to think what they call those yet.

Yeah. I answer And of course you uh I guess you would have good access in case there was a brush fire you or all the dry areas we had last year in different places. So a brush truck fire fire apparatus could get in there

fairly easily and all that. Okay, the gate wide enough. Okay, I know David back there. Make sure he gets the brush track in. He has to bring it in back here. So Okay.

So, if all of these were fully booked, what's the maximum number of people for all those? Are you limiting the number of cars that people bring per site? Yes.

And how many sites total do you have? 10. So you could have 10 cars. U no fire worse than anything of that nature. One thing I know that to clarify just either way is you had an approval in August and you yeah you had all those. You mention um a number of things in here. Does that include what was approved in August or is this in addition to just

right just to make sure this includes what was in August. So it's not in addition to

any other questions or comments board members. Now there was another use out there on the K road. There was quite a controversy to say the least and a good deal of that revolved around traffic because that road that road wasn't much in horse and wagon days. So judging by this, you don't expect a whole lot of traffic going in and out. Will they be allowed to their own personal generators or is that going to be too noisy? So, your application says that there's going to be two traditionally constructed short-term rental homes, but you just said there wasn't going to be any sewer hookups.

Oh, I'm sorry. I like accepted tank. Oh, they use their own. Okay. Okay. is not.

And this will be a shower facility building that So that's Riker Bridge water and sewer, right? Okay. But sewage. Any other questions, comments, board members? Would anyone in the audience like to speak for or against this application? Seeing none, declarable comment time. One last chance. Board members, if you want to say anything or ask anything, I got to hand it to you. This is the best set of rules I've ever seen.

So, how far are you from the nearest neighbor? Uh, any of these buildings? like from their Okay. Yeah.

Maybe on that one. Okay. Yeah. Charlie won't bother you, I don't think, will

Yeah.

back on the hillside, but you have to get to it from like that big turn there. Yeah. So where will the bulk of your buildings and such building.

So, you're way off the road.

So, the gate, but the gate you talk about is that could be right off the road. You just allow people in and out.

So somebody will be there all the time to let these people in and out or they'll have their own the same way as

Can you give that to the fire department also so they have access? Absolutely. Oh. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, that's where you actually lay your head at night.

Well, you know, put in Okay.

Sure. If you could uh David, you want David? On this one? Yes.

Okay. Is somebody else in the audience like Yes, sir. Come on up to the front here, would you? Yeah, sir. Sir, would you uh come up to the front, please? For the sake of our somewhat not the best in the world TV set. Got to run a pipe somewhere.

Yes. Okay.

Folks, if you'd like to make a comment, if you're done, sir, you can have your seat. If anybody else would like to speak, certainly come up to the podium. That was David Smith. Okay. Well, that seems to be

s. Hey everybody, time out. Okay, sir, if you could come up here and ask questions so it's all on record. He's done. Ask what questions you have left.

And sir, can we get your name and address just for the record, too? Just so we can put that into the record as public comment. That won't come back on the video recording, though. 2174. 2174. Charlie. Hey, Charlie. Got it. Thank you, Charlie. Hey. Would anybody else like to speak for or against this proposed use? Well, seeing none, board members, one last chance.

How did you Let me ask. How did you come up with the numbers for natural lodging versus Blankington? Did you do any studies? I mean, is there many people that want to do natural lodging? ma'am if you could come up to the podium.

Yeah. Yeah,

we did look and not You're talking about the glamping. the number of people.

Can you also hit the mic button? Um, just so it'll turn red. Thank you so much. Got it. Oh, yep. Yep. Red is on. Perfect. Thank you.

Sorry. Any other questions, board members? Well, thank you very much. Well, we will go through our findings of fact once again. Board members, with your permission, I'll just ask if you have any issues with each one. And this is under 749 other recreation which we have used out there before and in similar things. So number one uh category 749 any objections?

Number two uh okay with the comprehensive plan zoning ordinance? Yes. Uh harmonious with the existing or character of the general area? Yes. Hazardous or disturbing to neighboring uses? Any problems? No. Number five, all the utilities and so forth. Any issues? Number six, uh excessive requirements for public services detrimental to economic welfare. Any issues?

No. Number seven, this is about excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes, etc. Any issues? No. Uh, number eight, this is about interfering with traffic. Any issues? No. Number nine,

no. As long as we put the condition back. and number nine uh loss of scenic aristocrac uh we'll take a motion with appropriate conditions. I move we approve application BZCU-26-1 for a period of one year subject to the following conditions. Maximum of 10 cars, no fireworks, no recreational vehicles, and to adhere to the submitted rules.

Good rule. That's my motion. I second your motion. If we have a roll call.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

We wish you well, folks. Uh, next item on the agenda. We still have four items. Got to find where it went. Oh, there we go.

Uh, next item on the agenda, BZCU-26-02, Kevin Mason and Electric, Inc. with Georgia Hall. a conditional use permit under number 581, short-term rental, 506 Jefferson Street. Yes, sir. If you could give your name and address and just one moment, sir. Folks, if you are done and you want to leave, just leave. Okay, you're out.

My name's Kevin Mason. My address is 3501 uh Highway 50 East Bedford, Indiana.

And you're proposing u we have a purchase agreement on a home to that we want to use for an Airbnb VBO. Um and it's kind of subject to getting approved for the variance. one of many that we have here. Um, what hours? The main thing this board concerns us with, frankly, is quiet hours and it doesn't bother anything. Do what you want inside, but don't bother anybody. Our rules, you no doubt well know.

Our rules would be 10:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. Your quiet hours. Yeah, we have three properties in French Lake right now and uh we have had no complaints and you know our ratings on our houses are 4.9 or higher out of that. What's the maximum number of people? Well, it depend. It's a threebedroom. Uh and then there's another area that has a pull out a space for a pull out couch. So, it'll be between 8 and 10. We usually go to uh free.

Do you have any problems with 8 to 10 people? Board members, do you have planning parking to accommodate that? Well, right now the only parking is street parking, but it's our intention to uh pour a pad in the back for additional parking that can be accessed from the alley. You have several places along Third Street there that are public parking, but yes, it's not not really yours, but probably what eight or 10 cars probably there off of Third Street, can't you? Yeah. Beside that, you know, our experience would be there's probably two cars usually. Yeah, it's usually two families maybe.

If you were to make a parking in the back, what timeline you have in mind for that? Uh, probably this spring. So within within a year for sure. Yeah. There's a storage building back there now. We'd have to either move that or tear it down. There's other uh properties that have, you know, there's a one that has a carport. There's a couple others that have, you know, just paid parking. I'm just asking because parking is a scarce commodity. Yeah. Well, downtown, I think the good thing is we would be adding parking.

That's always good. Um, any other questions or comments, board members? I bet we were trying to limit two people per bedroom. Two two people per bed. How many beds have Well, right now it's not furnished, so I can't rest. It's three bedrooms, so I would assume that would be at least six people and a pull out probably eight. Uh, you know, we may allow additional two kids. I believe you're right, Miss Burkart. We have allowed two per bedroom.

Okay, I'm okay. That's That's a good size. Yeah. Mhm. Oh, any other questions or comments, board members? Let's see the rules here. There's rules in the application. Go find them. Basically, we require uh two two night minimum. They have to be 25 or older. They're not allowed to have any parties. And then we have the client hours which are pretty standard for what this board has.

So is there anyone local if there's any complaints to take care of those problems? Yeah, Brenda Everson has agreed to serve as emergency contact. I live about an hour and a half. Our host lives in French Lake. She's about an hour and a half away. Any other questions or comments, board members? Would anyone in the audience like to speak for or against this application? Yes, sir. You can have a seat, sir. Come on up and give your name and address for the record, please.

Mr. Martinez, 509 Walnut Street. I just purchased pretty much a block right behind your property. And I hope I hope you can get it. Uh, my concern is it's an alley in the back and I have a garage that's really tight to come in and out. And especially because the lady that owned it before has like a flower bed made out of stone that goes into the to the past of lightfall, which is the city.

And it's been a problem for me, but I, you know, I want to be a good neighbor. I'm glad to hear that if if everything goes well that he's going to put in a driveway. So, how how far in is your driveway going to be so they don't run into my garage? If you could come up to the microphone, sir. Yeah, that's my property there. Garage there. Can you see those stones? That's a big problem. If we remove that building, we can go, I don't know, 20 ft. Basically, the restriction would be the pool.

Yes. Yes. So, as long as the alley, right? And if it's 20 feet, they have plenty of space to back up into the into the alley instead of having to nick my run every I I really tight in there, especially with those rocks that are past the post and you got what two two and a half almost three foot into the alley there. But I I want to be a good neighbor. I've never said anything. But now that we're going to you're going to put a a driveway, I think that'll resolve my problem.

Yes. you know, and hopefully nobody will back into my garage. I have cameras anyway, but still, you know, I want to make it easy for whoever's backing up from your property into the alley instead of, you know, coming too close. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm sorry, what was your name again? Kevin. Kevin Brad Martinez. Yes. So, I bought all those properties there and that alley, it's it's been just it's really tied in there. It really is. But we all get along and and and help each other there as far as parking is concerned. Yes.

So, Mr. Mason, you sounded pretty definite that you want to remove that garage and put in a parking area. Good. Okay. Very good. Any other questions, comments, board members? Yes, sir. I'm sorry. One more thing. Right. Question is with this Airbnb is how is that going to impact my taxes? Probably not at all. Brenda, you probably address that if at all. I shouldn't cuz it's a business. Shouldn't say because Indiana's taxes are based on property values, but there's been a a reduction in taxes and there are circuit breakers and

and this board is not I don't think we could answer that question. Okay. because it's a business and I know that if you have business property taxes do go up and I just want to make sure that or I'd like to know if if at all. Well, I wish we could answer that but I don't think this board can answer that. Okay. Do you know who I could address? That's very important. County assessor. Okay. That sounds reasonable. County assessor. Thank you, sir.

Mhm. Well, I think we can move on to our findings of fact if I haven't got too confused here. This is a conditional use. I'm not using computers. I have piles of paper. What the what was that number again? 581 tourist home. 581. Thank you. Got this.

Uh this would be category 581. So once again board members with your um permission I'll just go down the list and ask if anybody has any issues. Uh category 581. Is this appropriate? Any issues? No issues. Number two. Uh general objectives, any issues? No. No issues. Harmonious with the character of the area. Any issues? None. Number four, hazardous disturbing. Any issues? No. Follow the rules. Number five, uh this is about utilities. Any issues? No.

Number six, detrimental economic welfare. Any issues? Uh number seven, assess production traffic at other things like that. Any issues? No. Uh number eight, interfering with traffic on other streets. Any issues? And number nine, loss of historic, natural, etc. features. Any issues? No.

We take a motion. I move we approve this conditional use of BZCU-26-2 for a period of one years one year subject to the following conditions. Um, quiet hours from 10:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. Maximum guests 8. No outdoor music, no parties, and uh, applicant agrees to install parking in the rear within a period of that one year. That's my motion.

I think second. And could we have a roll call? making all my notes there. Uh, sure thing. All right, so Rick Ferris, yes. All right, Scott, welcome. Yes. Carl, yes. And Nancy, yes. Okay. Well, we wish you well, sir. Who was the second on? Thank you for providing all street parking. All of you, Nancy. Nancy, I think Nancy was the second.

Excuse me. She quickest. Uh, moving on, we have a couple of variances from developmental standards. BZVD-25-18 Charles Webb Tanner and Annie Little Variance from development standards for zero foot setback both sideyards for accessory building 520 West Street. I don't think anybody's there. Have we not approved that before? Yeah, I did. I thought it was familiar, too.

Okay. So, I know there were a few that when we went back through the records, it was hard to tell what happened. And there were a couple that they had started the wrong application type, you know what I mean? And it had come back. Yeah. They would then switch them and it hadn't been voided out. So, since no one is here, um, they did stop by today though and they did drop off their public notice right before this meeting. Um, it was the wife and she did say that they all were ill this week. The whole household was. Um, so I'm gonna guess that she didn't stay for 2 and 1/2 hours.

Um, she said they were all had a virus. So I might say I can reach out to them again and verify, but I could not find this approval in any of the But if we did approve it, does it have to be done within a certain time frame? That's why I wondered if that's what happened if it wasn't done within a certain time. I can look at that too to see what your current I thought we did through this one just I thought I here and I can tell you really quickly just by the address any active applica or act past applications 520 West

Street and close to the parking lot. So currently they have um well total applications in the system for however long you've been in open gov um so at least couple years I would say uh they have a COA so certificate of appropriateness application in there this variance and a building permit and those are the only application history on the on this parcel. So um well in that case so I move we table this application till our next regular meeting. All in favor say I. I no it's tabled.

All right. And now we have BZVD-26-1 Robert Stillwell or 4x12 ft sign at 720 South Deer Bend. The application says bed. That is a bend. Sorry, needs an N in there. And I do not see anybody here.

This one too. Um, they actually we did not get back um, you know, their green card receipts back for this application. So, didn't get public notice on it. The other thing I was going to point out that um, I did not include in that staff report was um, it is on a scenic byway and so INDOT actually also in addition to whatever we regulate as a city, INDOT regulates any signs that are visible from a scenic byway. Um and so it's much more difficult um if you're going to actually you got sign. It was there and I know it took a number of violations to get that removed. Um or a number of you know uh notices to them. It if you drive by you'll see kind of like a pergola.

Yeah. That's out there. Looks like it's right adjacent to like the right of way. Um it was located on that and it was a 4x12. Okay. Um so city did eventually just through violations get him to take it down. Um I believe that was in December maybe might have been November December late last year. Um and then now he's applied for that variance for that. Well since no one is here and there are other issues with notifications. I move we table this application till our next regular meeting. Second. All in favor say I. I. No, I think that there's one more use and I don't know where

this is in my neighborhood. I was curious about that. Yeah, I know that this one he had called. It's a general business. It's a very small parcel. So, it's kind of odd that it was zoned that, but he wanted to retain the ability to do right business activities potentially. Um, but wanted to replace that house that's there. Right on the parking lot of the black Yeah. I did, but I don't know where he is. Well, since no one is here, I move we table this one till our next regular meeting. All in favor say I. Oh, no. Is that all? Have I forgotten?

Yeah, we had we were going to do the rules since this was a really long meeting. We'll do that next time. Um, and the P PC is not doing theirs till next month anyway. So, well, motion to adjurnn. So, move to. All in favor say I. Give us that motion and second just for the record. Nancy second. Rick was a motion. Nancy second.