Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm going to give an episode for Erin.

Okay.

It's a long day. I want to go out the door.

Greece.

It's this long, skinny island that's right off the mainland where Athens is. So just east of mainland. There's even a bridge at one point to it. It's where Athenians go. It's like Martha's Vineyard. And it's my friend's house there. To hang out with. Nice.

I took it as I had it.

It's been years.

All right.

All right. Welcome, everyone. I'd like to call to order this Thursday, June 18th, 2026, meeting of the Madison Planning and Zoning Commission. We have 2 public hearings on our agenda this evening. So I do want to take a few minutes to review the process for public hearings. In the current hybrid format of our meetings, but also, I want to mention that due to a bitch and posting the legal notice for 26 dash 18, middle housing text amendment. We can't open that hearing tonight. So we're going to table it to our. July 9th meeting. Um, and so let me go ahead and read the process during the public hearing. The applicant will be invited to present the application explaining to commission the commission and others present what is being requested. The applicant or staff will share all application materials on screen as needed. Comments of town agencies will be read for each application. If there are any, there will be clarifying questions from the commissioners and there will be an opportunity for clarifying questions from attendees. For Zoom attendees, please raise your hand through the Zoom platform. and wait to be called on and unmuted. As this public hearing must be recorded, attendees will state their names and addresses before asking their questions. Next, those who wish to support the application may come forward, and then those who oppose the application may come forward. Again, it is necessary for speakers to identify themselves each time they speak by stating their name and address. applicant will then have an opportunity to address any questions or concerns is by the public or commissioners once the public hearing is closed the applicant is free to leave or remain for the balance of the regular meeting during which the commission will try to reach a decision on each application each applicant will be notified in writing as to the decision of this commission and has a right to appeal to superior report desired Decisions of this meeting are available the day after the meeting by calling the Landis Department at 203-245-5631 after 9 a.m. All actions taken tonight by the commission will be by roll call. All commissioners and staff will identify themselves for the record. Speaking seated this evening are members Michelle Clark, who's an alternate, and we'd like to seat you to replace. Would you like to replace Max Cooper? Sure. Myself, Carol Snow Chair, Janet Peckinpah, and Secretary John Morgan. Staff present this evening is Erin Maddox, Town Planner, The meeting is live streamed on YouTube and will be made available on the town website for viewing. Additionally, I would like to ask that we treat each other respectfully throughout the meeting and a reminder to please turn off your phones. The town planner will now read legal notice, but actually we need to do that, Karen, since we opened it before. Correct. We don't need to. Okay. So could I have a motion then to reopen public hearing for 26-10-397 Durham Road? So moved. Thank you. Is that good? So good. Janet, thank you. Any discussion?

All in favor? So we are moving on.

This is 26-10, 397 Durham Road, Map 78, Lot 16, Zone RU1, Owner 397 Durham Apartments, LLC, Applicant David Klein, Special Exception Application Pursuant to Section 4.1.35.1.10. Not that our zoning regulations need revisions or anything. to construct a 40-foot by 60-foot four-unit apartment building and associated site improvements, including driveway parking, utility subservice sewage disposal system, stormwater management system. This is the public hearing continued from May 21, 2026. to invite the applicant to present.

Hi, I'm David Klein, 391 Durham Road. You're welcome.

David, just so you know, the microphone is attached to that television there, so to be able to project, and I'm not sure why it's not sharing.

Yeah, I have a portable microphone I can give you as well.

Please, I have a portable one, too, if that helps you. All right. It used to always show up on this television. Yeah, it's on. We just have to hold it close.

They don't project a little better in the room.

Or if you want to ask. What was the question? So this has not yet been proved by Correct. This has been, and David can explain, he's been to ACCA twice and they have asked him to return regarding some design elements. But the idea for today was to at least have David be able to begin his presentation and see if the commission had any other questions that in the time that we're waiting to return to ACCA, we'll come back in July, if there's something ACCA-related that you need them to address. So it's really for the interest of time.

Okay. So start with safe lands. Try to explain it a little bit.

Yeah, you just have to hold it really close.

Yeah, like that.

Yeah, that's better.

Is it work okay yeah, so this is yeah okay.

So this is a seven route, 79 Durham road over here, and this is the drop access driveway, and so the building we're trying to you know reuse as much of the existing. driveway footprint entrance areas because there's an existing house here, you can almost see the footprint of it right there and then. The new building is right over it. And so we're just reusing this existing driveway. And there's a little bit of a parking area in here that's going to be somewhat reconfigured for this. So part of the parking down here and then part of the parking right here, which is, you know, there's parking there already as well. It's kind of an improved graph surface currently. Let's see then. We've added some, there's a walkway here bringing, you know, tying this together along the driveway. The little area will have a entrance of the portico, a step up, and then a ramp here for handicapped access coming down the side. As far as landscaping, we can make a bit of a flower bed within this hole inside the sidewalk area, a little bit along the edge of it, it shows here. And then for outdoor recreation, we have a flat area in here where we could put some picnic tables, a swing set, what have you. Let's see what else. These cross hatches for bus marks are all kind of like a no bow, no cut area per wetlands. So they pulled in the disturbance area quite a bit just to give us just enough to kind of build the septic system. And as far as additional landscaping, other than that, well, let me just back up a second. We have included a rain garden for the roof. So, you know, there'll be a lot of additional wetland planting, native plantings in there. So, as far as additional landscaping beyond what I planned for this and that, I'm not planning to have any foundation planting. And HACA was okay with that. They felt like it's not necessary. You know, there are some good reasons not to do it. um you know it shades the building along the base and you can have like algae growth on your siding uh you know it's good to have a clear areas where rodents don't aren't have to get in um and there's a lot of existing vegetation i can show you some pictures you know so the idea is to try and minimize um tree removal plant well generally so you know this this pond is surrounded with trees and shrubs. This here is, you know, mature forest with, you know, a lot of growth coming up. You know, unfortunately, we'll have to remove a few trees, larger trees, but I'm going to try and keep that to a minimum as much as I can. What else? We did improve a little bit like for a little grill area here. ACCA suggested that we create a little patio set of like separate grill pads that people have a little bit of a seating area so that will show up on a future site plan. Let's see. So this is the septic system back here. And there's other features like that that might be of interest to you here.

You mean lighting? Yeah, I was just disappointed.

Yeah, well, lighting mostly, I'm just playing at lighting on the building. So we'll have some under eave lights here and here. And of course, under the patio, the particle coming in. And maybe there'll be like a sidewall light here that illuminates the driveway going down. But as far as like separate lights along the driveway or something. I'm not really planning to. For four units, I can give enough of a light path here with some lighting off the building to illuminate it adequately.

What's the distance from the parking area to the building?

Let's see. I'm not sure. There's so much going on here. road is it 178 yeah so then you're probably you know good 40 feet closer to to this area here i'd say but it's over 100 feet upside down that you're gonna you're gonna put a concrete path right some kind of improved path yeah so but no lighting on it i'm not playing with you initially did you say that that parking area is existing Yeah, there is a bit of a parking area in here, just, you know, gravel area.

Yeah.

Could it be five parking slots?

Yeah, well, there, I guess it's code or what have you for a two-bedroom apartment, you need two parking spaces. There's eight bedrooms in here. So we have five here. Initially, we had four and four. But the engineer said, hey, you may need a handicapped spot. So in order to create space for that, we had to crunch this down a bit and then move on over there. What's the total? Eight. Yeah.

I mean, generally, it's preferable not to have parking in the sort of front yard, such as it is.

Yeah, I understand, but it's sort of like trying not to minimize ground disturbance and reuse existing features of the property. And like I said, it's pretty densely wooded through here so that it's not that visible, really, from the road, unless you're looking right up the driveway. Is that included in the photos? I did have some photos there from the street. I think I labeled them so you might be able to find them. Yeah, and the site is constrained by wetlands, so that's the other problem is trying to shoehorn everything in the way that works without...

I appreciate that, but I guess I'm a little confused. You said it's 10 bedrooms. There's four units, each with two bedrooms.

I see.

And do they have a view of the solar time?

Well, they might have a little bit of a view of it. There's actually, you know, All right, where they are part of it, there's a wooden opaque fence and then that transitions into a chain link, a black chain link fence that's fully slatted with privacy slats. So they might, you know, just about be able to see it, but through the trees and right now there's a fence there, you know, so during construction, I'll probably end up removing a good portion of the fence, but I'll keep it and I could add it back afterwards if it you know, seems to be an issue or, you know, whatever it is, the visibility problem.

What's this view?

Is this? Yeah. Okay. So this is like, if you're standing right on Route 79 at the parking lot where the golf range used to be for a bottom and that the existing house is like right through the trees there. So you've got, you know, pretty dense vegetation, you know, and that's in an open area. If you're driving up 79, that's like an open area where you can see well to your right and see well to your left. But if you're looking like on an angle off that way, you're not going to see much of this building. It'll be a little bit higher than the existing house, you know, be something like 26 feet, maybe 27 feet. But it's you know, still, you know, the trees are mature. There's a lot of shrubs and even smaller trees growing through there. So it's fairly densely vegetated. I think the next picture.

Does someone occupy the house?

It's been rented, yeah. There's actually nobody there now, but it was rented until very recently. Did you say the other foal? Yeah, I have two other photos just showing the views of, yeah, I didn't label them, so hopefully it's clear enough. There's one right up the driveway. Yeah, so this is like standing on right So the new building will be pretty much on that footprint, a little bit shifted that way. And a lot of these trees, everything on this side of the driveway, as far as vegetation, will stay. And most of what's here, some of this will have to come out along the driveway here and in here in order to put that walkway in and get the septic in. But I'm going to do my best to try and preserve as much of it as possible. But if you're looking up the driveway, you almost literally have to be right at the entrance of that driveway. Because if you're to the right or the left of it, again, it's wooded. Where's the parking area? Yeah.

You see how this driveway turns right into here? Right. That's where that front parking would be. I see. I don't know if a Google Street view would be easier. Yeah.

There was one more picture across the pond. So just south of this, between the golf range parking lot and this driveway, there's a pond. And I have a picture looking across the pond. So you get an idea. there, too, how much visibility you might be prompted with. Okay, yeah, so this is looking across the pond. And so you can see the house in there. So the new building will shift this way a little bit. It's going to be more like over here, so you may be able to see a little bit more of it. But along the pond, it is, you know, they're full of pine trees and some low shrubs and everything between, yeah, I'm standing right at the edge of the pond. Maybe I should have taken it from the road. But there is, you know, quite a bit of vegetation there, too. And then you see you've got these trees and shrubs along here. And along the edge of the pond, we will not be clearing. You know, we'll just let that go naturally. And that frame garden will be up in here somewhere, so the root front off will come down into it. Right.

And then what? What's the fruit of it?

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

I think one of the conditions is to check the vegetation, like, through three growth cycles.

Yeah, they'll have, like, a soil scientist or, you know, common, you know, that's the requirement. It's really common, I've seen it. And then just to make sure that it's surviving and, you know, hasn't been kind of abused in a way. Go back to the cycling, just to Yeah, so just to recap, across the pond, there's probably standing roughly here, and then here up the driveway. So you can see this is currently pretty well vegetated, and we've designated that as a no-cut, no-low area, you know, to be left in a natural state, and also along the pond here to be left in a natural state. So, you know, that's currently fairly well vegetatable to grow up even more over the years and, you know, shielded from the road.

I was just looking. Did you cut through the phone?

Pardon?

No, it's right up. Just right up. Yeah, I don't know.

This is the... That's the wetland. The gray area is the wetland area. So there's kind of like a ditch along the road. So it's all... it's all technically debt wetland, but this is kind of the outline of the palm and then this is a higher elevation here there's like a burn around it and there's a like spillway where the water X on this way that goes under. on the driveway here and out along Route 79, right along down to a brook that's further up the road. Yeah. So yeah, the pond doesn't have right angles.

That's fed by a Huzzle Guzzle?

What's that?

It's fed by a Huzzle Guzzle?

No, no, it feeds Huzzle Guzzle, yeah. Oh, great. Yeah, I'm not sure where that came from.

Why didn't you use, expand that closer parking area? Why is that so far away?

Well, there's a CLMP pole right there. I mean, maybe we could have put them here. But also, I wanted to try and keep them away from the pond. You know, it's a question of separation from the wetland, too, and not getting it too wet. Yeah. So, I mean, if the existing driveway is here, the closer you get, the more, you know, the closer to the wetland area you get. And it gets, you know, this gets fairly narrow here. we really have a landslide drive.

Right.

Are there safety concerns with having a multi-family unit so close to a body of water with no protective fencing, both from the tenant's perspective and the wildlife perspective?

I'm sorry, what?

That sink the pond? Yeah. There aren't any regulations. No regulations or requirements. No safety concerns or anything? A natural pond, you know. There aren't any code requirements.

And you're not intending to improve the road going in or the provider lighting on the sidewalk that gets tenants from the parking spaces up front to the building?

Not initially. And I'm also trying to control costs. I mean, construction costs are very high these days. It's very difficult to get anything done. And this kind of construction, there's a good reason where you don't see a lot of these two, three, five family buildings going up is they're not really profitable. There's, you know, the economies of scale aren't there. You know, in my opinion, I think people would prefer this kind of smaller infill development as opposed to when you get developers who come in and they want to build 30, 40, 100, 150, even 200 buildings. units all in one big development, which eats up a lot of land. Some of them are surrounded with tons of parking. And they do an awful lot of land disturbance and extensive stormwater catchments and all those kinds of things. And it just gets complicated. But you see those because that's where the money is. And the big developers can do that. just to try to do something small because I kind of believe in trying to develop a model for this if I can where you do more of this infill development of redeveloping existing parcels and trying to bring in housing that way on a smaller scale.

So these rental units?

Yes.

Lighting can be a question to bring back to at least from a safety perspective for residents walking down. So that they have, you know, they can see well, going from their, their vehicles to the building. It would be appropriate for a baller or. you know that that is at the discretion of the commission to have a photometric plan or see where uh you know to ensure that the residents are safe on the property um the other question i had for you david it's um gravel driveway and at this it's a state road are you improving the entrance with a paved

Well, yeah, that would be required. It has a paved apron right now.

I just couldn't tell if you were widening that entrance or relocating it slightly.

Not really, but it has a paved entrance. That's a requirement of any development to have a paved apron. And so it's been there, yeah.

So the trees that you're taking out along the driveway, is that to get put in the new set?

some trees for the septic trench here, yes. And there's a handful of the bigger trees that will have to come out. But also, in order to put the sidewalk in, the existing driveway is only so wide. So we've got to widen that a little bit in order to achieve that. And then you know this tree is probably gonna have to come out in order to accommodate the parking so people aren't like wrapping all the way around because the septic system gets raised up a little bit so you have some parade here pitching down so you could necessarily drive there um as the town engineer looked at it yet to see about egress of emergency uh something so the building department has that you know

It's been referred to the town engineer. I don't have any formal comments yet from the town. We do have health department approval of the septic design.

And the note says that the existing well will be abandoned. How are you going to handle keeping it contained and safe so that it's not accessible? Is it going to be covered, buried?

Well, it'll just be pretty much buried, removed. You know, whatever is there will be cut below grade and Well, you know, I thought about trying to do something like that, but for a project of this scale, you know, going through, you know, the paperwork or what is it? something 30G thing or something. Yeah, the administrative burden is, you know, pretty huge. And I'm just myself doing everything here. It's not, I'm not a big company with lots of staff that can handle that kind of thing. And then, so, you know, that's part of trying to keep the cost down. I would like to see this more as workforce housing, but, you know, that's very difficult to do. You know, you're By the time you get done at the end of the day with all the different requirements that go into it, it doesn't make it an easy project financially. We'll see what we can do. As far as affordability, I don't think anything that meets the technical definition of affordable is going to be possible as much as I'd like to do that. At best, I might be able to do something that's more what you might consider workforce housing, where you have an income of $80,000 or above or even two incomes that give a family there well into the six figures, something like that.

Any other questions? Have you spoken with your insurance company about improvements to keep the property safe for the residents? I guess I'm still concerned about the lack of improvements to the driveway for the fall risks and hazards, lack of lighting, protection from the water, lighting across the sidewalk to provide guidance to the residents.

I asked them about what the cost of the church might be. A little bit of an angle on that, but as far as those kinds of things, no. But I feel like I can provide a light on the wall, this wall, the building, that will provide pretty good illumination across this area. So it shouldn't be that onerous. Later, it seems like even more, I can add lighting.

What part did we say that was?

the building was from that? Oh, the parking area? Let's see.

It's about 170 feet from the building to the road. It's a 40-foot front setback, correct?

There's a scale there, but it was hard to read when I saw it.

Yeah, with parking, it was a little bit. So yeah, I mean, it's probably, you know, in this area, it's probably a good 40 feet closer from the edge. But then from here, yeah, it's probably a good 40 feet, maybe more. From the edge of the actual edge of the road. Yeah, I think it's fine.

Yeah.

But 15 or a 100 over a 100.

Yeah.

Yeah, thank you. I don't know. Move the site so they can see the scale. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. This front setback line is 40 feet. So that's where I. Subtract what is it? 40.

Yeah, there's a scale.

Yeah, right here.

One inch equals 20. You know, I don't think we want a spotlight that's that bright that goes across and out to the parking area.

I would recommend that you bring your proposed lighting to the next ACA meeting. It is recommended to have full cutoff lighting so that spotlight, floodlight type would not be encouraged um typically the commission has has approved site plans with uh full cut off or dark sky friendly and um a lighting temperature uh not to exceed 3 000. okay when is the acca meeting tuber good again It's the 14th of July, and so your next available meeting then would be July 16th. It would require David to grant the commission an extension of 21 days. So the commission has 35 days to hold a hearing open, and that will bring us to June 25th. So to get us to the next end, you have up to 65 days, David, to rent the commission to any of these stages, you know, to open the hearing, to keep it open or towards their decision making their deliberation. So you don't have to grant the full 65. You can be kind of strategic and piece that as you need to. So it'd be 21 days to our July 16th. Yes. But it would be helpful, and we can see if, I don't know if there's any public hands as well, but it would be helpful at this meeting, just as David has this month or this next opportunity to meet with ACCA, if there are things that the commission would like addressed ahead of the July 16th meeting to kind of voice those now so we can work on that. And could we get... town engineers input by the 60s. Yes. I noted that as well.

Okay, good. Any other thoughts or questions about that? Did you want to show us the architecture? Yeah.

And that's mainly the aspect that can ask us to move on.

The June 4th ones, right?

Yeah, there was one, Karen, with the front. I think there's four front doors now.

Yes. Right. So, yeah, this is the side elevation is the front elevation. So, yeah, I'm not sure what to say. Yeah, I guess somehow they didn't quite like the siding decision that I chose. So, you know, I kind of like it. So I'm sort of reluctant to give them what they want. I kind of have, you know, my own preferences. modify this so it could satisfy a little bit. See if we can squeeze maybe a gable to make it look a little bit better. Also adding a few dividers to the lights. Three dividers, so two up at the top and one large one at the bottom throughout.

And then this pitch for this was a little bit low, so we kind of raised that up a little bit. It was trying to look a little bit better.

What other things are we thinking? So that was pretty much the main kind of changes that we've been making.

And it's a slab, right? Yeah, it's not a slab.

You know, roof, they didn't, for some reason, didn't like by having this intermediate roof, but the intermediate roof to me does provide, is a practical thing because it cuts solar heat gain in the summertime. So, you know, the sun is lower in the winter, it'll go into those windows, you'll get some heat gain in the summer, something higher in the sky, it cuts it down. So if you're looking for comfort, inhabitants comfort and energy efficiency it is a practical feature it does help to shelter the windows and the siding a little bit too not 100 but it does quite a bit for the upper half of the wall is the front elevation south facing south yeah that's basically the entrance but it's not the road front yeah yeah really so this uh let's see

This is two by six construction.

Well, it might be. I'm still working on that. I'd like to do it out of structural insulated panels if I can, because it's a very efficient system and a base for what I consider a much better building. But we'll see. All that is...

once i get through the zoning process and i know i've you know it's a go like work more aggressively all those i think some of the concerns of aka were um material right the the vertical panel and versus right i said i actually need to kind of break that up somehow with yeah this

or something like that, just to give it a little bit more interest or what have you. You know, and I've all seen that done. Yeah, I just feel for efficiency, trying to, my boss is under control, so I do everything the same way. can't do the leg, go crazy. Every little thing is cost. Even that intermediate roof, that's quite a lot of cost. So you spend a little here, but then you've got to cut back somewhere else. It's always making those kind of triages about things as you do this kind of thing.

Each door will go directly into that. Yeah.

that's why the four doors right show you the floor plan so this is the first yeah so this is the first floor apartment so you go right into it from the street and then these two would go upstairs to the second floor originally i was looking and doing a single entrance with the common areas the central hall with a stair at the back. They went upstairs with doors off of that and two interior doors going into the apartments. But for fire code, they didn't like that design. So I had to go to this. This is actually a lot cheaper to build, too, because all that common area has expense and it's maintenance later, you know, extra maintenance. So it's fine outside of that. you know, just from the street, it looks a little, it's not quite as elegant, you know, with all those four doors, but it's just the way it is.

Any other questions from commissioners?

Oh, we do have some pictures that I added of like samples of the sliding. I'm going to do that. They're at the bottom there too. Maybe we can just take a look at that to get an idea of what

I also wanted to open up to other public comments or questions. Should we ask the people attending via Zoom, I don't know if they have any questions or comments.

You can ask if anyone in the public wants to raise their hand on Zoom, we can call on them on phone or so.

This is the side. Yeah, so this is an existing house that's sided. This is fiber cement, do it in fiber cement. the freeze board at the top, just a simple casing, all vinyl trim. And then these little strips are just made out of ripped down little pieces of the fiber cement to cover the seams. Let's see, there's another picture there that just shows a closeup of that strip.

Is that what the Bradley was built out of? Something similar? These composite panels.

Yeah. So, you know, the other thing is the brick won't be there. The brick kind of breaks it up a little horizontally, gives it some interest, but that's, you know, nice for a custom home. But for this, you know, that's just budget-blowing.

Yeah, it's hardy board. So that's how you treat the

all in so it's very subtle it's not like some of these barn you know with the battens they're much more frequent and they're thicker you know they're good three quarters to an inch these are like three sixteenths uh thick that's all they're not very heavy you know so it's the same material as the size so it's just a way to treat the scenes and this feels this is the sun in that house yeah for some reason they uh

They just architecturally didn't like the look or something. Yes, pretty much. I like it.

So what am I supposed to do? I'm willing to keep making the argument for it. Just to be honest, I might go to them and just say, look, you know, your commission, you guys can decide, you know, but I am making a few changes that I think, like I said, trying to gable on that port ago, I think might be an amazing picture that we're putting some making divided lights out of the windows, you know, I think can help. We did We changed the roof. Originally, I was thinking of just putting a single pitch shed roof on this building, pitched to the south. I don't know if you saw that. I was thinking long-term, if you want to put solar panels on it, you can maximize your solar exposure for that. And also, there was a concern with wetlands for that. And they said health department. The health department didn't want the roof runoff running back over the septic system. And so the easiest way to handle the roof runoff was to grab that water at the south side of the building, divert it to the rain garden. Now, I mean, to capture the, I mean, by doing that gabled roof, Now I have to have guttering on both sides, and I have to try and direct those gutters from the back to the front of the building, which kind of complicates things a little bit. And then as far as solar, forget that, because it's just not going to have enough exposure to justify doing that. But with that room, I mean, so it looked a little funky. It's a question of taste, but I didn't like it.

We'll come and see my $10,000 fence outside my house. Oh, $10,000.

It was not supposed to. Oh, okay. So, you know, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, that's, so it is what it is.

So last call for public comments. I'm not seeing any hands raised at this point. I don't have any hands raised.

Okay. Yes. So, and it's advisory. Right. And they're doing what their role is to try and make some recommendations. And I think, you know, some of these, the progress that's been made, the sidewalks and the recreation area, these are all valid. And nice improvements for the residents. Yeah. But yeah, things like lighting and landscaping and some building design elements. Absolutely. It's not, it's not a design district. It's not a village district. So there aren't any prescribed standards for the building. So, right. A lot of times it is, it's a little bit of give and take and we're seeing that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think I'm pretty confident that there's going to be some kind of balance on that next meeting. I think you're more than cooperative going back and working with them. And the committee is trying to be thoughtful or, you know. And respect David's design elements as well. I think the lighting is a worthwhile. to ensure safety more for anything, whether they're bollards or some kind of damage that will at least allow for folks parking in the outer lot. And so two things I just wanted to bring up. I did submit just preliminary staff comments. They are in the record, but that's for... application documents as well. I did note that that parking is in the front yard. And so the zoning regulations prohibit parking in the front yard. One of the questions, which is why Carol asked that is this existing parking in this configuration that it's legally non-conforming, it's not changing. If it is not existing in its configuration, then you should request from the commission that exception from section. I don't know the new section numbers. I wrote it in my.

that septic system is, you know, big. So, you know, if the spaces would, yeah, right.

and then you know if that requires a some kind of a request for that waiver or something okay well the photos were really helpful to see from the street what it was i just want to make sure that the commission when you do take action that you make a finding on that as well so that you're with your nonconformance.

Right. And then the second I just wanted to bring up is that you need to formally grant the commission an extension of those 21 days for the hearing to continue. Otherwise, they would have to close it. Oh, yes.

That's right.

You could do it verbally. That's fine. As long as it's on the record. But you physically have to be the person to grant that.

grant the Madison Connected Sowing Commission a 21-day extension to continue to hear. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.

We appreciate that. Because then we can get all the feedback that we need for this decision. So thanks. Yeah, thanks so much.

Okay. Um, so 1 of the commissioners would need to. Unless you have more discussion 1, if you're. Done discussion discussing, then someone should make a motion to continue with your to the line.

Could I have a motion to continue the hearing to July 16th? 9th. 16, sorry, it's the other 1 that has to go.

This was going to the 16th, July 16th.

I think as of now, I mean, we'll be getting a little bit more feedback from ACA. So there may be other questions, John. Yeah, and the engineers. Anything else?

Yeah, I guess I mean, I think it's a great project and I'd love to share it with some Oh, thank you. I saw that first picture. But yeah, I guess it's a pretty more personal concern about the long sidewalk that went to that parking. Have you exhausted all other parking options right in front of the building or even to the west side of the building?

No. I guess not. I mean, my assumption was I just wanted to use what was there as much as possible so that I could limit, you know, disturbance of... Well, it's very unique.

I think someone's going to say, yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's not regulation. Either the insurance company or someone's going to say... Do that advice.

Okay.

It's a safety concern. Taking that. Yeah, it's a safety concern. That's all I had.

Yeah.

So basically, the lights are the big thing.

It's pretty far away from your main building. So it's a dark 4 o'clock in the afternoon. It's just rentability. There's only really only two spots. Right. Yeah. So, you know, so most of your journey, your way.

Which.

And trash closure, are you doing. But that would be the next thing to also. Do you have a location for that?

Okay. Yeah.

So I think we'll be marking that for the next meeting so that the commission can see where that is at the end of the driveway.

Show that. Okay.

So kind of a motion to continue. Second.

Okay. He was just showing where the trash was. Yeah. So I didn't see where we are.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Yes.

You're somewhere.

So, maybe show it on the next. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I could have the, you're looking, you know, changing the parking. I mean, maybe you have to have a cycle. Yeah, maybe we could do that. I just got to think of, you know, it just seemed to me that there wasn't one through here to do it effectively because it gets kind of narrow.

But, you know, I can ask off the driveway. Towards the subject.

What if you just see this is supposed to be sort of in a recreation area, but maybe we could do it here. Yeah.

Or yeah, or come in front towards the building.

I mean, we'd have to go back to wetland.

You may have to modify your plan. Yes. Yeah, those are based in Northwest.

What about right in front of the building? Right in front of the building.

Well, they are not far from a, from a, is there a setback for Parking spaces from what from from. A building the next from the joining the entries.

No, so you know, there is not a base for requirement.

Here, you mean, say, right? Yeah.

In the back side.

Well. Yeah, you know, we're like, so in here.

Yeah, I mean, you'd have to. Make each space accessible and have a backup area for them. So that would be a little bit of site plan, you know, but some modification. If you're near the septic systems, they may need to be designed for vehicle loading above them. So it's all behind.

Yes. The tank is here. three there or something. But see, there's a sea of people here. That's another problem. We weren't planning to move. Trying to move that mess up a lot of things. But it's all a lot of moving pieces. Every time you move one thing, everything else doesn't. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, I can look back at that. Well, just take me while you're putting in sidewalks.

Be my idea. Or say, like you said, just make it for me.

is acceptable and be able to manage that would be up to them where which which of that part which car where but okay okay we all set yep

Motion to continue the public hearing to July 16th. Second.

Yes.

Any further discussion?

We're good.

Thank you for the extension.

All right. Thank you.

Okay.

Okay.

Slight interruption, but let's move on to the next agenda item. Um, as I said, the, uh, My success you can text and then that will be there. Don't like reading. A powerful emergency. Well, because then we don't have to. You can. should we take a break or can we we could actually maybe take care of oh no because we don't I could maybe table can we go through the list of things that need to be tabled quite a few things well you have several things that are already taped yeah garden of park we don't have to worry about can we just read those under the record Ending applications, we have 26-15 Barton Park, which is table to July 9th.

Um, next is sound view, which David and Shannon are here. Yes, and. Uh, maybe here comes.

My wife is recovering from knee surgery. And she had a little slip in the bathroom, but now she's okay.

Okay. Make sure because that would be a priority.

We'll move quickly to get the real business. Yeah.

All right.

So, no worries. That's important. Yeah, family. Okay, so 26 dash, 1969, Soundview Avenue, map 7, lot 4, zone 4. You do the text amendment.

Yeah, I think you need to table public hearing, but you can. Okay.

Before we go, let's call a motion to table the public hearing for 26-18, the text amendment to our July 9th, 2026 meeting. Motion. Thank you. Second. Any discussion?

Are we exposing the law?

Correct. There's no punishment. We get an application, we'll have to figure out how to deal with it. And then that's pretty much where we are. And by the way, it sounds good. Yeah, you know, within the South, not all. You just smile. These have even 1. So, there's a good. Yeah, you're right. All right, so. And the application 26 dash 15, garnet park road. Owner applicants wait, sorry.

Just exactly to do that 1.

26-19, 69 Soundview Avenue, Map 7, Lot 4, Zone R4. Owner-applicant Ray Pantolina, application for coastal site plan to construct a 2-foot-wide by 80-foot-5-inch long flood and erosion control structure tiered retaining wall to stabilize the existing upland and prevent erosion from wave overtopping. So, we're here.

Can you all pull up the application so I can share it?

Am I okay here in terms of microphone?

Yes. You're good for microphone.

Perfect. Because it's that.

Excellent. Okay. Thank you. I'm David Provencher with Shore Design and the owner of 69 Soundview hired us to solve this problem that he has here. So we're here before you with the coastal site plan application asking for your support and approval. So you all might be familiar with this stretch of Soundview where it's been long stabilized by large boulder revetment. backed by a concrete bulkhead and a concrete sidewalk and then retaining walls behind that. So 69 Soundview is sort of the weak link in this whole stretch. They're the only property without that landward retaining wall behind there. And so The photos that you see here are just after a sort of unnamed storm in December. And basically the waves are just crashing over everything and just ripped out his landscape slope. And then obviously because the other properties are retained by low walls, they were unharmed.

Did the hard surfaces on either side exacerbate?

They do, in fact. Yeah, and I'll show you some better photos, but they do. So as the waves crash up, they're actually bouncing off the return wall and then scouring out that little landscaped area.

I think so, yeah. December?

Yeah. So here's looking west, and so here's pre-damage and then post. So it's actually exposing sort of the neighbor's return wall, so posing a risk to their structure, and then same on the east side as well.

Wow. Wow, so I grew up in this neighborhood too. I know there's granite blocks very well.

Yeah, it's. It works, it works extremely well, except for, you know, if you don't have that, that little protection behind it.

So they started forgetting more severe and. When true, yeah, wave action.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um. So here's just a close up view of that of that Western property line. and so before this was all this was all filled in and now they're the neighbors turn wall is exposed some damage i'm sorry are they going to repair it so um they've they've actually we've included a signed letter of support from both neighbors on either side so um this neighbor here at 73 soundview um in order to so they actually have damage on this corner so part of the application is to actually cut back To sound wall. And then continue the new wall. Right over the property line. So we're actually looking to this. This profile here. Is going to be mimicked. In front of 69 Soundview. And the reason for that is that. Rather than come up with a new shape. That may direct wave water differently. We just want to be consistent. And continuous. Yeah so that was the best decision there. I mean this. This wall over here at 61 is actually a little taller and just more flat and square. So the best we can do is just run up to it and then return it. Exactly. So that'll protect at least that side. Serious. So this is what we're looking at for the entire length. So as I mentioned, we're sort of cutting back to there on 73. So this is about 7 and 1 half feet here to the property line, and then continuing for about 80 and 1 half feet until the eastern side. So we're going to maintain the same top elevation of 73, just right across. So we're not looking to go higher.

So when you say two feet wide, is that the depth of the funnel?

So the top stem wall is about 10 inches. The two feet, we have all kinds of dimensions. We do have sort of a, so we have a footing. We have a footing that's, what's that? Four and a half feet long. That's so great, obviously. The two feet. Good question.

Aaron, you know.

Unless there was a.

It was in the narrative. Yeah. What does the 2 feet wide.

What does that refer to?

Yeah.

What's that representing? I should have the answer, but you're retaining wall.

Meaning, like, the thickness yes.

So, okay, so.

I guess we have that from the sidewalk back to the yeah.

So, from the, from the, from the toe of the footing. Back to the, to the back is to feed, but it's sort of a, it's steps. So we have 10 inches and then it drops down and we have about 11 and a half. For that lower tier, and that those are the exact dimensions as the neighbors as well to the West. Yeah. So. And then recess stairs in the middle. And then we're looking to do channeled soar boards that can be dropped in those slots so that during times of extreme weather, they can drop that in so that they don't have... Scooping out. Exactly. So right here. So this is just an open pathway. If we don't block that off, it's dropping those things right down.

Oh, that's that's and then it's, it's fill and patio.

Yeah, so it would be so, I mean, so he'd be looking to restore it, you know, the patio that's here and then everything else would be landscapes, lawn, vegetative. As it was exactly yeah, except without without the slow. That's all I have unless you have questions.

That's good and it's going to prove by deep.

Right. So it doesn't require permits from DEAP. It requires a mandatory referral to DEAP, one, because it's on the erosion control structure, and two, because it's a war front, a low-site plan project now. And DEAP came back with a finding of consistency with the Coastal Management Act. THE FLOOD PLANE ADMINISTRATOR REVIEWED THE PROPOSAL AS WELL AND FOUND CONSISTENCY WITH THE TOWN'S FLOOD PLANE ORDINANCE.

NEW SPEAKER I'M GUESSING THOSE HUGE GRANITE BLOCKS ARE STONY CREEK GRANITE AND MAY BE DONE LIKE AFTER.

Great question. You may know better than me. I mean, you know, luckily we didn't need to research. Yeah. But I mean, it does a great job breaking up all the wave energy.

I know it's amazing to have that and still see what kind of damage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also just saying as kids, that sidewalk was there and it was sort of a right of way that we could fish off of. There was a dock, a huge dock at the end there.

Yeah.

It was just a much more open, you know, small summer cottages. So, yeah. There you go. Climate change. Any other questions or comments? I'm sure you weren't like... We left back here.

have a draft resolution resolution so if someone would like to make a motion uh yes and um do we need to modify the specifications around the construction of the size or did we just eliminate the dimensions oh about the two foot wide what does that mean oh the 80 feet long the um resolution references all the um application materials as provided

And that has the correct specifications. So I think you're okay. So we read into the record as that, as it's. I think the two feet came from the existing concrete bulkhead. There's a two foot dimension on there. It is in the narrative, which is why I. Yeah.

So that's. Descriptions. That's on me. My apologies. That's where I. Yeah.

The two came out, but we can modify and just know that it's a, it's an 80. Uh, put 5 inch, uh, long, funny version. I mean, it states in here that it's a tiered retaining wall description. So I think it's pretty. Maybe just 2 foot wide. Um, I can get it. Okay, great.

Right away.

So, I'm remembering just stop looking. You read this.

madison planning and zoning commission approves number 26-19.69 san diego avenue map 7 lot 4 zone r-4 owner applicant ray pantalana application did i say that right application for coastal site plan to construct an 80 by 80 and a half long blood oh my gosh eight feet five eighty five inches long flood and erosion control structure with a tiered retaining wall to stabilize the existing upland and prevent erosion from weight overtopping as shown in application materials provided by Shore Design PLLC with the following conditions. That the zoning enforcement officer be notified at least 48 hours prior to commencement of any regulated activity and that all erosion and sedimentation controls be installed prior to any site disturbance and be maintained for the duration of construction activities and until the site is sufficiently stabilized to the satisfaction of the zoning enforcement officer. in the event that changes to the approval approval plans are required as a result of other agency permitting to support proposed activity as planning and zoning commission research breaks review set changes and may require modification of this approval the commission finds that with the above reference conditions the proposal is consistent with all applicable goals and policies in the coastal management act and section 25 zoning regulations no anticipated impacts to coastal resources are expected the effect of davis approval is

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you all so much.

Good luck with the project. Thank you.

What was inside wasn't clean. Don't worry about it.

Every one of us. Further pending applications, we have 26-20 text amendment and in a motion to schedule public hearing for July 9th. Great. And then next 26, 22, six to nine campus drive mass 68, not 49. So I'm not ready to. more applicant kind of management site time modification application for the demolition of the 13,000 square foot portable fast room building, which formerly housed the town campus learning center. Motion to disable that to already was 16. Second discussion on favor. Okay. But he says that 23, 9, 8, you're about what's the scene on 22 zone already one other at the time out of sand this is an application for a safe and modification to bombing the former Ryan's school brand elementary school and stabilize the site the ball. I have a motion to table that July 16. Well, she also.

Thank you.

Long list. 26-20.

We have a lot of applications.

By the way, we don't meet on July 2nd. We have a 4th of July fireworks. And activities.

Festivities. So the July 9th. Two weeks in a row.

The 9th and the 16th.

26-24-391 Durham Roadmap 72, Lot 27, Zone RU1, Owner-Applicant-Client Properties, LLC, Special Exception Application Pursuant to Section 4.1.34 to allow domestic pet-related services, including framing, grooming, daycare, exercise, and pet socialization meetups. So what is the difference?

What's the difference?

So there's a text amendment to allow us to incorporate. That use into the zone, and that has to be heard 1st, but there's a concurrent application for special exception should the commission. Act in favor of the text amendment that public hearing the same.

Oh, I see.

Nobody's we got to learn. It's a little bit of a balance. If the text amendment hearing gets continued.

One would have to continue as well. Okay. Okay. Schedule the public hearing that for July 9th. I'll make a motion. Oh, sorry. Second. Let's see, what else do we have to offer you? July 9th, 26-25, 28 Toffee Lane, map 13, lot 119, zone R5, owner-advocate Gregory and Renee Malas. Coastal site plan application for the installation of a hot tub within 25 feet of a critical equipment service. This is off network. Motion to table to July 9th, 2026, pending deep referral.

I'll make a motion.

Okay, second. Janet, all in favor? This is a hot tub because it's plumbed and it has some structure.

It's within 25 feet of the water. So all exemptions go away within 25 feet.

And we're in receipt of 26-26 Boston Post Road, U.S. Route 1, Madison Center Project Phase 3. This is the sidewalk road alterations for road, pedestrian, and landscape improvements along Boston Post Road in the downtown area as part of the originally approved Madison Center project. Scheduled public hearing for August 20th.

Oh, motions.

John? Second. Michelle? Michelle, second. Discussion? All in favor? All in favor. Okay. 26-27, Boston Post Road, U.S. Route 1, Britton Lane and West Wharf. This is Town of Madison again. Major downtown village district, alteration to pedestrian improvements, sidewalks, crosswalks. On the Post Road, Britton Lane, and West Wharf. Motion to schedule a public hearing for August 20th as well. Second. Second, John. Thank you. All in favor? All in favor. Okay. Our schedule for the summer is set.

I'll say.

What about the extension? So we need to take action on a request from... Then to fast for a 90 day extension to file the mylar for 25 dash 28, which now lane map 27, lot 87 dash 3 zone or 2. That was the reset division application to the device, the division property 7.

So, and they're working on health approvals and we just needed some more time to. Button that up before they did all the legal documents. So we go through.

Thank you. Thank you. One favor.

You have to read the motion.

Thank you. Oh, is it? Do we have a draft? Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, Janet, do you want to read it?

The subdivision was approved. On February 19, 2006, the applicant is requesting a 90 day extension to file the record subdivision map on the land records. The following graphs. So, what happens on a 90 day extension to file the sign.

record subdivision mylar of the madison land records for application 25-28 bushnell lane map 27 lot 87-3 zone r2 owner applicant linda h fast re-subdivision application to legalize division of property from 1957. the new expiration date shall be september 16 20 26. thank you paper good uh

It's a lot of minutes.

I'm sorry, John.

May 21st. Meaning if anybody remembers.

It's been. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Cancellation. Well, commissioners were here except for Max. Michelle was seated for Max. I motion for review and proof. Motion. Second. Second. Michelle. I found the ministers being so green.

About time.

Anyone else have any? Oh, no. Hey, Shane.

Nice. Were you down to the record? I recorded it. Oh, right.

I think they look beautiful, too.

There's a couple formatting issues on Mike.

Oh, the formatting. Oh, that's funny.

All in favor. All in favor.

All in favor. Bye. Any other comments? Not for me.

No, my only comment is if you have vacation scheduled for the summer, since we do have quite a number of pending applications, I think 10 is the magic number. currently that we're juggling. I'll send an email out to the commission or have Cheryl send it out next week that we can start getting some block out dates for you. respect that now that you know what all right here we go for me thanks mike um and we have emotions oh wait here to adjourn