Commissioners - Regular Meeting

All right, good evening, and welcome to the June 9th Macon County Board of Commission meeting. It's an important night for the county. We are having our budget hearing. So, Ms. Tamey, I'll start off with announcements.

Just a quick announcement to the board members. Make sure you have your mics on tonight because we have the overflow room, and they won't be able to hear you if you don't have your mics on.

Is there people in the overflow room?

There is people in there.

Okay.

Mr. Cape? Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to announce that the paving project will take place at the multi-use court at the Nantahala Rec Park on June the 17th and 18th. So that area will be closed for two days while we do that paving.

Thank you. Mr. Breeden? First of all, thank you to everyone that is out here tonight coming out in the flow room as well. The only announcement I have is just a reminder of our America's 250 celebration. It's a two-day event, July 3rd and 4th. Lots of activities on the 3rd. I won't read them all, but wiffle ball, kickball, a lot of the three-on-three basketball. There's food trucks. There's going to be a free concert in town. That night, Friday night, then the 4th starts on Main Street, then moves over to the park about 4 o'clock. The big one is, if anybody paid attention to American Idol, Braden Rumfelt will be here celebrating that night with us. So he's going to put on about a two-hour show. Don't hold me to that, but... Maybe a two-hour show. But it should be really exciting. I think that's a great draw for us. We're going to have a huge event. Thanks to the 250 committee, county manager, Commissioner Sherrill, the town of Franklin, the chamber, Seth Adams at the rec park. I'm sure I'm going to miss a few. Law enforcement. We've had a good time over the last year trying to put this thing together. So come on out and do it. Transit is another good one. Thank you. We should ring tomorrow?

No, just thanks for everyone being here tonight.

Mr. Shields.

I just want to take just a few minutes to welcome everybody here. And I want to say to Mr. Cave and his staff, when you go through this budget in a few minutes, you'll see the time and energy they put in here. And I want to say thank you for your work. Thank you, Darrell.

Mr. Sherrill.

Just a couple things.

This is a fantastic budget that they have put together for this county. Recognizing the many wonderful county employees. and also recognizing the taxpayers of this county. There is no tax increase proposed in this budget. So thank you guys for all your hard work. Second thing is Thursday night we will have a continuance of the planning board meeting discussing the redistricting of this county. So that meeting starts at 5 o'clock. So if you have any interest in seeing how the planning board is coming along, In putting this thing together, please come and attend and look forward to seeing you there.

Ms. Leppard?

Council? I don't think I found it very exciting.

All right. At this time, I'd like to ask Commissioner Shields to lead us in a moment of silence in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Please stand if you can. If not, please stand. Say our prayers tonight. Amen.

All right. Thank you, Commissioner Shields. All right. At this time, I'd like to open the public hearing pertaining to the fiscal year 26-27 budget. All right. We have two speakers signed up to speak. Ms. Lisa Walker.

I heard I don't have a time limit. Do I have a time limit? Half an hour? No, I'm just teasing. It won't take me that long.

Burger King closes now. Be careful.

First of all, I really want to say thank you to each of you. Sitting through all of the budget meetings and seeing the amount of work and the energy and the tough decisions that you have to make, I might not always agree with you, but I respect you and I'm very appreciative of your service. So I am personally most passionate about public education. And as you know, North Carolina is dead last in the country in per-pupil spending. The maintain request for the school's budget was $14.2 million, and the 18% allocation is $11.8 million. Although that's an increase over last year's budget, it's a shortfall of $2.4 million. And a few things that came out at the meeting that I went home and investigated. One of them was the EC student teacher ratio. And I have since learned, since the May 26 meeting, that the schools are providing the minimal standards of EC teachers and aides as prescribed by the law. However, we are woefully short of this professional standards, which are 1 to 10 teacher and I think we're closer to 1 to 40 in some cases. With an increasing population of EC students, our schools need the funding for more teachers and aides. Second thing that just like flagged me was some comments that were made about pre-kindergarten and the conversation, well, it's not mandated by the state, so should we provide funds for it? And I went and looked at the average cost of pre-K in Macon County is $8,000 to $10,000 a year. The median income is $59,000, which means somebody paying full price for pre-K, private pre-K, would be 17% of their salary, making it pretty much unaffordable for more than half of the families in Macon County. In addition... High-quality pre-K is proven to have positive short and long-term outcomes, boosting literacy, math skills, academic performance, and graduation rates. I know there are a lot of compelling, sitting through all those conversations, ambulances, firefighters, everything. There's a lot of compelling needs. But I respectfully request that you prioritize education and increase the school budget to 19% of the overall county budget. And it's a little disheartening to know that we can pay, we can afford $3.8 million for pickleball courts, but we can't fully fund our public schools. On a side note, going through that, I realize revenue is really short in our county, and I am committed to helping and doing anything I can to get the quarter cent sales tax passed because we need that. So thank you for your time.

Thank you, Ms. Walker. Thank you. All right. Glenda Cook.

This will be the last time you'll see me. I thank you all for your time. I'm here on behalf, again, of Coliseum Gorge Fire and Rescue. I'm respectfully requesting that consideration of the nine-tenths of a cent tax increase to support the continued operation and growth of our emergency services. As a nonprofit volunteer-based organization, we're committed to providing reliable, high-quality fire and rescue services to our community. Over time, the cost of maintaining equipment, replacing outdated apparatus, meeting training requirements, and ensuring adequate staffing has increased significantly. At the same time, call volume and service demands continue to rise. Currently, our funding sources include donations, grants, and fundraising efforts are no longer sufficient to sustain the level of service our community expects and deserves. Without additional financial support, we face challenges in replacing aging, lifesaving equipment, maintaining vehicles and facilities, recruiting and returning qualified personnel, meeting state and federal safety standards. The nine-tenths of a cent tax increase would provide stable and predictable source of funding, allowing us to plan effectively and continue protecting lives and property without interruption. I understand the concern about asking taxpayers to contribute more. No one wants to raise taxes. unnecessarily, but fire protection is one of the most fundamental services local government provides. When residents call 911, they expect trained firefighters to arrive quickly with the equipment and staffing needed to protect lives and property. This investment is not about expanding government for its own sake. It's about maintaining the level of service our community depends on. As our county grows, costs increase, equipment ages, and call volume rises. Without adequate funding, response times can suffer, firefighter safety can be compromised, and insurance ratings for homeowners and businesses may be affected. The cost of underfunding emergency services can be far greater than the cost of the tax increase. Additional dollars per household can help ensure that families receive timely emergency response when seconds matter most. I encourage you to view this proposal not simply as a tax increase, but as an investment in public safety, property protection, economic development, and the quality of life our residents expect. Our firefighters stand steady, stand ready to serve every day. They need the resources to do that job safely and effectively. If approved, I also encourage continued transparency and accountability so residents can clearly see how every dollar is used and what improvements achieved are achieved with this funding. And as the Board President of Coliseum Gorge Fire and Rescue, I intend to see that Mr. Cabe and Ms. Leppard are provided monthly with a profit and loss statement from Coliseum Gorge Fire and Rescue, starting with the July 1 physical year, so that you will know how taxpayers' dollars are being spent. This board deserves that. The taxpayers of Coliseum community deserve that. We will be having our July association meeting. And they will be told that also.

Thank you so much, Ms. Cooper.

Any questions? Okay. Thank you.

I'm going to give a comment to Ms. Walker. I'm going to give a comment to Ms. Walker. Hang on just a minute. Well, go ahead. June 11th. 1.30, Chamber of Commerce. Thank you.

Does anybody else wish to speak on the budget hearing? Anybody in the other room? Give them just a second to walk over. All right. All right, this time I close the public hearing. All right, gentlemen, any thoughts, comments, adjustments to the proposed budget?

I do have a couple questions that I'd ask for, just for clarification. I wanted to ask about radio. I think we're one of the only counties west of Asheville that has a radio maintenance, radio techs, and I had asked for some information as far as contracting that out and what we're currently doing. Can you give me some info on that?

Yes, sir. We did get some estimates on what that service would cost if we contracted it out, and when we put the figures to that, because that included your routine daily maintenance and then, of course, the... 24-hour coverage on the mountaintops on the paging system because we technically have two different systems. We have a VIPER radio system, which is your handheld communications, which most of that is maintained by North Carolina, but then we have a paging system, which is UHF system, which is simulcast over the VIPER system when you get your tones. So when we put the pen to the paper this year, it didn't make financial sense this year to take that leap, but it is something that we'll look at this upcoming year and make sure that that's still the most appropriate route that we want to take.

Then one other question, well, maybe two questions, but one of them was about contracting services. I know we've kind of done a lot of that stuff. Just wanted to check in on that, see if that's still working out the way we thought it was. It is.

We've contracted several mowing contracts. We've tried to... Previously, where we may have used maintenance to do construction projects that are typically not a maintenance issue, we've tried to branch out more and use some of those folks, in particular with the mowing and the landscaping. That has been a plus for us. think the quality, not saying that what we got before was bad, but I think these folks are able to spend a little extra time on certain other days and make sure that we're hitting the need. We're not behind. We're not getting behind on more and we're not getting behind on some other things. So in my opinion, I still think that's a good use of our funds.

And then the last thing, I think a lot of folks are here for the library. Maybe not this question, but can you give me idea or give the board an idea of what we have budgeted for the library and then what it would take if we stayed with the FRL now that Jackson County has decided to withdraw from the FRL what that looks like yes so

This year, the request from the FRL for the Macon County Library System was $1,628,276. I obviously, you know by now by looking at your budget, I did not plug that dollar figure into our proposed budget. The figure that I plugged in was $1,249,601. And the reason that I got to that figure, I looked at the Macon County expenses, did a reasonable cost analysis looking at the figures on what the added expense was for the FRL because obviously those expenses went up because now you're sharing some back office type things and other things because you've only got two counties. But I also knew that there were some discussions going on and There was a meeting the other day with the local library board, and we talked about the reconciliation of excess fund balance at the end of the year, the dollar figures that will come back to us. You remember we passed an agreement in February and March that had some provisions in there that any excess funds would be returned back to the county above and beyond what the normal fund balance was. So the figure that was given to us that would come back this year is $525,000, a little over that. So to me, my logic was they do still have a fund balance. We're having to use some of our fund balance. The FRL does have a fund balance. There's also going to be a $500,000-plus payment coming back to us So it didn't make a lot of sense for me to budget an extra couple hundred thousand dollars knowing that they're going to turn around and give us a couple hundred thousand dollars back. So I figured we needed to have some conversation somewhere with them, talk through that. The dollar figure that we had last year that we budgeted for the library was $1,225,634. So... We're slightly above what we budgeted last year. They had some salary increases, some basic operating stuff. So in my opinion, and obviously we can set a time to talk to those people later, I think that's enough to get us started, to get us going, reconcile the monies coming back in, and instead of just having checks crossing the mail somewhere, we sit down and have a conversation to figure out how we're going to do that. And then your other question was?

Well, just the difference in what it would cost. Well, we've budgeted pretty much year over year versus what it would cost to continue in the FRL now that Jackson County's pulled out, which is about $379,000 this year.

That's correct. Jackson County, I actually looked at their budget. They... If you take last year's appropriation they had for their library system versus what they're paying this year, and this year they're supposed to be an independent library system, it's about 31% more than what they had last year. Which, if you plug that number into us, it would put us right around... If I took last year's money and plugged 31% in, it puts us about up $1,605,000. That's worst case if you figure percentage for percentage. Now, there's obviously some other things in there that you need to consider that may be different here. I don't obviously have an exact number. I think your dollar figure would be somewhere between the $1,249,000 we have now and the $1,600,000 that the FRL needs. I think your figure is going to lie somewhere in there. But I do think... obviously we're talking about the budget i think at some point we need to have a conversation with frl and talk through that process they are still in the process of reconciling the last formula verifying the numbers i actually understand better now their their calculation they they are They're calculating their minimum fund balance that they recommend. They're taking the excess of that and they're dividing it by the percentage that the county's paid in and returning that excess money back to the counties based on that percentage. So you get back your excess share of those funds. Well then, obviously... Jackson County's leaving. So now you don't have to have as much of a fund balance. So therefore, they're going to take their share of the fund balance. The fund balance required will be less. And we really need to probably have a good conversation about that and sit down and work through that, what we're going to do going forward now that there's only two counties involved in that.

What kind of conversation would we have with Swain County?

So I've actually reached out to them. Their county manager is actually technically already retired but is staying on for like a week or two with Mr. Dills, who's the new county manager over there. So I was going to reach out to them and just touch base with them and see how they were navigating the same process because I'm sure they're having the same discussions, the budget issues this year.

I did watch a – part of one of their commission meetings, and they were talking about the budget. And it seems to me like they were talking about it was going to cost another $200,000 plus when Jackson County leaves.

And obviously, we don't want to short the services at the library. We want to make sure that those stay on par with what they are. It felt like rather than us moving money to this account, who's going to turn and move money back to this account? Let's sit down and have a, they spent a lot of time and effort on the financial end of that to figure out the financial part of it. I figured we needed to do some due diligence too and work through that. So that was the method behind the dollar figure that I put in your budget. And there's also, if you look at those numbers, they also budgeted a contingency number. There's $40,000, $40,750 that they budget in an operating expense for contingency funds. So I backed those out too, just funded the operating monies that I could come up with.

If you were to summarize that, what is our net gain or loss if we were to operate a library? Okay.

I don't know the exact figure. I mean, it would be somewhere. I don't know that you could get it any less than what you're funding now. I would have to have some more detail on what the FRL back part covers to have that discussion. It's somewhere in the middle.

But this year, we've got one. 1,249,601 budgeted. That's correct. And FRL, if we state, it's 1,628,276. 300, basically 379 difference. 1,628,676. That was their request. And then the distribution that we're supposed to get back whenever that happens,

Ending final reconciliation, making sure all the numbers are correct, is $525,401.97.

And I'm not sure this is a proper question. What would the conversation, what would this all look like in three years?

I don't know that I can answer that, Mr. Chairman.

I can't either. I just didn't know. So would it be just Macon County? Will they be on their own? Jackson on their own?

At the moment, the FRL is still in existence. They're just two counties now instead of three. So, well, at the moment there's three counties, but if Jackson County goes through with their withdrawal, which it looks like according to their budget documents they will, July 1 there will only be two counties in FRL, Macon and Swain.

And Swain talked about leaving the state.

I do not know the answer to that.

What kind of, I don't have an answer to that. That 10-year contract or agreement that we went into, that goes out the door?

No, your agreement is actually still good. Of course, Jackson County would not be a party after the withdrawal takes place on July 1, so the only two parties to that agreement would then be you. But the agreement still stands. That was the proposal. That was the division on the request from FRL, yes. And there again, one of the provisions that for the distribution of funds back to Macon County, the $525,000 and some change, one of the stipulations for that was that the funds had to be set aside for library use. So... Their request was when they sent the funds back to us that that $525,000 be set aside for library use. So in the event that you required more money than the $1,249,601 that I budgeted, you'd have the $525,000 sitting there somewhere that you could use for whatever other library purpose.

And I may be out of line here in this question. Under 14 appointments tonight, Macon County Public Library Board of Trustees, three seats. Does that need to stop?

You still have a board, so it's entirely up to you as far as those appointments. You're appointing to the local library board of trustees. So that board still stands. The FRL board still stands. However, it's my assumption that Jackson County members will go off. So there will be less members on the FRL board, but your members will still stay there. You still have a board that exists.

It can still operate without Jackson County? Yes. How many of them?

On your board? Yeah. You have a nine-member board. You have three members that are expiring maybe today or tomorrow. So, yes, you have a nine-member board.

And the FRL, like after Jacksonville, is everything six?

Yes. Is that correct? Did you say the FRL? How many are on the FRL board?

Yeah, how many are on the FRL?

Six on the FRL board, yes. Six of them are.

I guess I'm not seeing the future other than voting on three people tonight. What is the purpose? Should we delay that vote? Should we get some more information coming to us?

We can certainly have a discussion about that, absolutely. I don't know if you want to do that now or if you want to wait until we do the budget.

There are two different boards. You've got the Macon County Library Board and then you've got the FRL Board. So you appoint three members to the FRL Board and you appoint all nine members to the Macon Board. Tonight there are three members that are up for the Macon County Board. That is not for the FRL Board.

So I guess my question is, is Macon County, are we capable of operating the library and offering the same services as FRL? I mean, what's so special about FRL other than it's a three-county library? I mean, why, I guess my question is, why would we put the taxpayers paying another $400,000 to operate a library if we're not losing any services? And the library is never going to flow down to exist or to operate. I mean, it makes no sense to me that it's going to cost the taxpayers of this county $400,000 just to stay in that for it.

And then basically if we go independent, we retain the same services.

I think we should, yes. If you're asking me, can we do it for the million 249,601? I don't know that I can 100% answer that question for you tonight. We can certainly get to a figure. And if you're asking me if we can run a library, We will follow the direction of the board. I think that depends on what you tell us to do.

So the FRL would dissolve itself because you just have Swain. I mean, you wouldn't have FRL anymore, right?

The agreement is, Eric can correct me if I'm wrong, but if two of the members leave the system, basically the FRL dissolves, correct?

Right, so if... You have to give a year's notice. So if you were going to with, right now it's set up with Jackson, Swain, and Macon. Jackson actually contributes slightly more than Macon County. And so you have a book share, basically, with those libraries. And there's a mobile unit that runs around with books. And you can also share the audio books through the Libby app with those three libraries. With Jackson contributing a little more, presumably they would be contributing more, so therefore you would access to all their books. As it exists today, as it exists July 1, you would lose Jackson. You would still have Swain. So the question then is, if it costs more to run in order to continue that with just Swain, Is it in the board's or the county's best interest to continue to try to run it as an FRL board with just Swain and what, technically, what limited resources that they provide and that they're only, what, 8% of the, what is their total contribution to FRL? Six percent. Six out of the, and so if, you know, Jackson's a little more, so we would... Basically, it's your call, and you look at the finances, I think, versus the benefit you might be getting from what is a smaller contribution from Swain. Is it worth it? But the point of what I was saying earlier was if you are going to withdraw, you have to give a year's notice so that it is figured into next year's budget. So if you could give notice before July 1 that Yeah, we need to explore the option of withdrawing, so we're going to go ahead and give notice of withdrawal tonight or sometime before July 1st. Then you would have a full year to decide whether or not we're going to follow through with that or not. But you do have to give that notice if you're going to do it. We don't know what Swain's planning on doing, but if you gave notice tonight, you would still have a year to make up your mind if you actually wanted to follow through with withdrawal or not. But you do have to give that notice, and you have to give that notice both to the... State Library Board as well as to Swain and the FRL.

Okay. Now the people, the number of people who inquired about the vote being a candidate tonight, what if they change their mind? If this thing's going to dissolve, And we've got people here that we're going to vote tonight.

Your Macon County Library Board is going to stay. This is just for the Macon County Library Board tonight. This is not for the Fontana Regional Library Board that you're voting on tonight. So the Fontana Regional Library Board could go away. The Macon County Library Board still would stay because you still have to run the Macon County Library.

Right. I guess my question still is, the people who put their name on the list... If they had known what we're talking about here, would they have made the same decision about running? Yeah. You would?

Okay. Mr. Shields, that's what we're talking about is the budget, and they're asking for... us to budget $1.6 million. This all has come out in this budget process, not necessarily in the application process of the library board. So the discussion is now is, financially, do we stay or do we go? And it makes no sense to me. I'm not worried about applications. I'm worried about what makes sense for the library system for the Macon County residents. And the taxpayers of this county. And pay an additional $400,000 the way that it looks. I'm sure we own the property and everything else that we have some very intelligent people in Macon County that can certainly run this library system.

I guess my question still goes back with what we're talking about here. But I think I saw the nods. Those people would still be interested even if we pulled out. They're still interested.

Mr. Chairman, I think we can probably get deep into that conversation. I think the biggest question you need at the moment is, are you comfortable with that $1,249,601 figure in the budget this year? Also knowing that we're going to get hopefully 525,000 and some change back soon, the max. Are you comfortable with that number in the budget? And then once we can obviously get deeper into this conversation at some other time if you want to.

No, I agree. I think it's time to recenter and focus on the budget. This is your 27 budget. Gentlemen, what do you think about the allocation in the proposed budget? You okay with that? Yes, I'm okay with that. You okay with that? You okay with that, Mr. Shields?

All right.

All right, well, any other thoughts, comments, discussion about the budget? Changes?

So I will summarize for you, Lindsey, correct me if I'm wrong. You do have the new dollar figure, Lindsey? No. So you will remember at our last work session, we talked about, obviously, we funded our capital out of fund balance. We funded school capital out of fund balance. That also includes the $600,000 appropriation from fund balance to go ahead and start the paving project at the SEC driving track. So that is the increase in your budget from the time we talked last time until now. And in reality, you would be seeing that increase anyway. We're just doing it June before the July meeting, but you would have seen that anyway in July or August. So that's the only change really to the numbers that you've seen. And that includes the tax rates for the fire departments that you directed us to put in and work sessions.

Mr. Chairman, at this time, I'd like to make a motion that we adopt the 26-27 budget as presented.

I hear a motion by Commissioner Sherrill, second by Commissioner Breeden. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor please signify by raising your right arm stating aye for the record. Aye. Any opposed? Ms. Damien, please let the record reflect what was unanimous. All right. Additions to the agenda.

Well, Mr. Chairman, I think given the discussions we were just having about the library, Might be appropriate that we add the library as an agenda item. I had a feeling that was coming. To go ahead and just discuss this thing out. I don't know where we'd put that under new business. New business item B? Yeah.

All right. Any other additions? All right. We'll end in a public comment period. All right, we've got two pages of public comment, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to read the first name for the speaker to come speak, and I'm going to go ahead and read the second name, who's on deck, just in case they're in the back room, just to expedite this. And I'm usually pretty friendly about the three-minute time frame, but today I'm going to raise my hand with about five seconds left, and just please finish your statement, and let's move on. I just want to make sure everybody has a chance to speak. All right. First speaker... Patricia Trick and Mr. William Trick, you're on deck.

Ready to swing.

You can stay seated.

Just be ready. I'm here tonight for a couple of different reasons. I guess I should come more often. First of all, I want to say thank you to each of you for your service to Macon County. I also want to publicly thank Leah Gaston, Diane Catlin, and Justin Boner for their service with the Macon County Library Board. And as we've all heard tonight, I'm liking this library board into kind of like redoing your living room. And you go in, you're like, I want to change out the carpet. And that's kind of where we were. We didn't like what we were seeing when we walked into the library. And then when we get in there and you pull up the carpet, then you realize that the subfloor needs to be done. And then you get that done and you see that, you know, The walls need to be painted. You need carpet or curtains. So I would like to encourage you that, especially if we are going to be looking at changing and pulling out of the FRS, that we keep these three dedicated people on the board. and encourage them to, because they have the knowledge and because they've walked through this whole process with us, that we don't take them out early and let them finish the ballgame. The second thing that I am here for As you know, I'm the chair of the Republican Party here in Macon County, and I have one of the fun things that I get to do is encourage people to run for office. And I had the encounter yesterday of having a young woman who wanted to run for school board, and she went to the Board of Elections, and they couldn't tell her which district she would run in. There's no clear districts. And I had asked before. It's Nantahala, it's Highlands, and it's Franklin. But there's no real clear delineation on where things are. So the Board of Elections is amazing. And they sat down and they really worked on it pretty much all day yesterday to figure out where the lines were. And They came up with a document that actually only made things worse because now, and I'm going to use myself as an example. I live off L.J. Road, District 1 for the county commissioners. My grandson who lives right next to me goes to East Franklin Elementary. According to the school district map, I am in the Franklin districts, which would be two or four. Well, I guess four is so confusing. But it would be district two. But according to the documents that they put out yesterday, I would be in district one, which means that either A, Jack needs to go to a Highland school, or B, that We need to move those lines. So all of that.

I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm going to be a stickler out here.

All of that to say, when you guys do redistricting, work with the school board, please.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Sorry to be that guy. Mr. Trick.

Finish it.

Good evening, everybody. I'm here to ask you to reappoint Justin, Diana, and Leah to the Macon County Library Board. These folks have put a lot of time and effort into getting this going in the right direction. And I also want to urge you to pull out an FRL. Give that notice now so that you can make that decision in a timely fashion. I don't have a lot else to say except that I do appreciate the obvious amount of work that has gone into this budget. I was looking at it yesterday. Congratulations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Trigg. Dr. Joanne Rossner and Mr. DeVille, you're up next.

In an interest in time, my bibliography of biblical references will be sent to you. Ladies and gentlemen, I start with these comments. There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to... Back off the mic. Oh. There you go. All right, give me a couple extra seconds. The principle is contempt prior to investigation. That's from Herbert Spencer. It's published in the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book. Not all persons of Christian faith are represented by the narrow views of Diane Catlin, Leah Gaston, and Justin Bonner. Scriptural support exists for patience, peace, and tolerance, and for love of all. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus himself make a comment on homosexuality. I bring to light an act of great disdain on the part of Jesus in overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple. Make of that what you will when billionaires rule. I request on behalf of all Macon citizens that you state tonight and publish in a public forum afterwards your objective criteria for candidate selections. Please make available a public comparison of applicants that were on the following metrics so that we can be confident these were considered in each case. Relevant professional and personal experience. Knowledge, qualifications, and an existing skill set. Demonstrated public service and volunteerism in our community. demonstrated ability to listen to disparate views and consider them in policy decisions, ability to weigh and consider all evidence and represent that in fair governance, ability to represent clear adherence to the separation of church and state in governmental affairs, commitment to intellectual freedom, understanding and understanding that libraries represent an entire community, demonstrated respect for subordinates and employees when in a position of leadership, demonstrated ability to suspend personal agendas and act collaboratively. In closing, I remind each of you that the library board is a governmental body serving to represent all, not a forum for exercise of faith. Macon County is not yet Iran. Wherein Ayatollah dictates what we can read, act to prevent this from occurring in Macon County.

Thank you, Doctor. Mr. John DeVille.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Just a brief history lesson. 1890s, a group, mostly women, teenage women, put together the first library in this county. By 1901, it moves right behind us here to the Masonic Lodge. where it is until 1941. We get some state funds. Lassie Kelly, who is the ramrod of that original library movement, she gets funds from the state to buy a 36 Chevy truck, and there's your first bookmobile. 55, we move to the Iola Street, a location that still has the Crab Orchard Stone on the facing of it. In 1974, we became the Macon County Public Library System. I heard a reference a minute ago about taking up the carpet and getting into the sub-flooring, about what's going on with the library as a renovation. the last four years it has felt far more like a demolition a demolition and we're seeing discussion of further demolition tonight and given 130 years of work that has gone into creating this tradition that we have in these counties it is heartbreaking to hear cheering for demolition Our history suggests to me that we are better than what we have recently experienced. And so when you go to make those tough decisions tonight on who to appoint to the board, I hope you consider the 130 years of work that has gone into creating this library system, the traditions, and maybe we turn the page away from the chaos and the rancor and the divisiveness has plagued the library system and plagued the boardrooms of three counties for the last few years. Thank you all very much for all of your work.

Tonight I choose to tell you why the public library is important to me.

I was born into a high controlled religion. It is considered a cult by some. As a child, despite my curiosity, it was frowned upon to ask questions about other religions or faiths. As a young teenager, it was frowned upon to discuss sexuality or ask questions that didn't align with the beliefs of those around me. Those questions could be answered in a book written by our religious leaders tailored to young people or from the Bible. As an older teenager, when all my classmates were talking about college and filling out applications, I sat on the sidelines, acting uninterested, because college was not allowed in my world. I wasn't going to be allowed the education I would need to be who I wanted to be. The library for me was freedom. I learned the answers to my questions about my body and my own personal views on sexuality. No matter what I read, they didn't change who I was. I learned about other religions and faiths that weren't like the ones I was born into. I learned what a cult was. The library stacks are where I dreamed of college, a career that I wanted, and places I wish I could see. The library is where I discovered my love of history. It's where I traveled to art museums and historic churches. And as an adult, the library is where I learned about my baby and how she was growing because I couldn't afford to buy the books I desperately wanted to read as a first-time young mom. The most amazing thing about our library is that it's neutral ground. It doesn't separate the rich from the poor. It doesn't care what political party you vote for. And it doesn't care what religion you choose for yourself. Excuse me. It's a welcoming place for all, to those who may not be able to find the answers elsewhere, and to those who just want to learn privately on their own terms. The library isn't just books or subject matter. It's the epitome of freedom and choice. You are being asked to change the foundational terms of our public libraries. They are asking you to place more value on their opinions and beliefs than those in the entire community. Ideally, tonight's trustee appointees will come from various backgrounds, experiences, and qualifications in order to ensure representation for all residents and any who visit our community. Your decision will either change or protect access experienced at our library. Your decision will either tell us that you support and want to protect our First Amendment rights or that you have no interest in doing so. Personally, I really look forward to knowing where you stand on that.

Thank you, Amy. Doreen Castle and Vic Green, you're up next.

I'm Dorian Castle, treasurer for the Veterans Memorial of Macon County Committee, which was established when plans and construction of the memorial began around 2009. There are six veterans that form this committee today. In addition, there are three original members, or as I like to refer to them as the founding fathers, are still alive and we confer with them on any actions that involve the memorial. We continue to hold true to the original intent and their wishes. We need to keep in mind that this is a memorial to the veterans, hence the name Veterans Memorial. The memorial is where family, friends, and visitors can come to a beautiful place with a picturesque view of our great Smoky Mountains, see the lush green grass with professionally manicured manicured shrubbery and feel the cool mountain breeze, all while peacefully remembering those who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This is not a museum where anyone can put military artifacts such as a Navy .50 Cal gun a fighter aircraft, Apache helicopter, or an Abrams tank. We also turned down a potential request to bury a large casket full of memorabilia to be used as time capsule. Someone else wanted a small concrete monument surrounded by a flower garden. These things are not what our founding fathers wanted, nor does the current committee. The committee has always had oversight for and funded the maintenance and upkeep of the grounds, monuments, flagpoles, and flags. The committee replaces all the flags twice a year, lowers the flagpoles and washes them annually before the Memorial Day ceremony, orders, installs, and levels the veteran bricks and walkways to name a few recurring maintenance issues. We also lower and raise the flags when notified by the governor or president. In 2025, the paint department of LBJ Job Corps graciously repainted our Eagle with the memorial only paying for the paint. Then the shingles on the shelter were replaced for $7,564. The shelter was restained for $2,500, and the rock wall that fell down was $3,850. In 2024, we paid $750 for an architect and $1,500 for a field survey to help with the layout for the new Space Force flagpole monument and walkway. The flagpole cost was $2,492, and a new granite monument for the timeline section was $1,500. All of these expenses were paid by the Veterans Memorial of Macon County. Travis Waldrop from Macon County Maintenance Department and his team have assisted in electrical and water projects, but the majority of labor and expense has fallen on the Memorial Committee. Being aware of the long-standing and vital role that the Veterans Memorial of Macon County Committee has had on the memorial, we ask that you would look to the committee for input before taking any action at the memorial. We also ask that you keep the original intent and wishes of the founding fathers as a guide to future decisions. And lastly, we know the Veterans Memorial is county property, but even as county property, the Veterans Memorial Committee has proven they have a vested interest financially, physically, and emotionally. Please help the veterans and the county work as a team on future projects and actions to make this a memorial we can all be proud of. Thank you.

All right, Vic Green and Margaret Pickett, you're up next.

Ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate every one of you individually for the service that you render to Macon County. Thank you very much. And I appreciate the fact that you allow all of us as community members to share our opinions and insights, our perspectives with you. as we're considering, as you're considering, the appointment of members to the library board. Roger Marks once said, I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a good book. Now, like Groucho, I'm a huge fan of libraries. I chose to work in the libraries of the school and seminary that I attended to help pay my way through school. And it was a privilege for me as a former member of the Macon County Library Board to take part in the planning and fundraising for our current library. I remember what a community process this was. I remember the pride that our community felt at our library's completion. And in that, since then, I've enjoyed a variety of experiences there, films, concerts, lectures, and meetings. My hope for you is that you will choose board members representing diverse backgrounds, people who know that libraries can be life enhancing if it is integrated into the life of our community. Our library best serves its purpose when you respond to the varied interests and needs of the citizens of Macon County. Allow me to encourage you to appoint board members who will do all they can to increase the breadth and depth of our minds and hearts. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Green. Lisa Walker, you're up next.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Margaret Pickett, and you might recognize me from my application for the library board. I just wanted to fill in some blanks. I don't know whether to be very casual with y'all or very formal, but I wanted to fill in some blanks that the application process didn't allow for. Last November, while serving as a poll greeter, I overheard a conversation between two women. One was telling the other, inviting her, this was in Highlands, was inviting her to come to their church. She said, Our church is very involved in the community. We have three members sitting on the library board. That really struck me because I thought how few people must have applied for the library board for them to take three very obviously like-minded people onto the board as members. So that was what kind of started my impulse to... apply this year. I'm a resident of Highlands, but I grew up as an Army brat. I also married an Army brat, very common with military kids, and I raised my children as Army brats. If you're familiar with the life of a military family, it's very nomadic. My parents were more nomadic than most. I just counted the other day. I moved 44 times in my life. I have lived in Highlands. I have owned this house now only 13 years, but it's the longest I've ever lived or known any house. It was the library moving around from post to post that really made me feel at home. Every time I went into a post library, it was a familiar place. The books were familiar. I knew the people in those books. And then I got to read new books that broadened my experience of life and people. And it gave me a sense of community that you don't often get in the military. When you're moving, your friend's moving. or they've just come in. Libraries provided the same sense of belonging to my children growing up. And they were not only inspired to read, but to write books. After 20 years of teaching math to middle and high schoolers, my son has just published his first young adult novel this year. You can imagine how that makes me feel as a mother. Their love of books supported by libraries has been passed down to their children. They have 11 grandchildren, nine of which are teenagers. And their trips to the Hudson Library every time they came to visit was the first thing that we always did. So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Lisa Walker. Hi, ladies and gentlemen. Peggy Silloy, you're up next. Okay, I'll be really fast, but I do want to weigh in. You know I always want to weigh in. Unfortunately, at some of the past library board meetings, members of the current board have lacked professional decorum and have disparaged highly qualified library staff, creating a culture of division, stress, and instead a culture of walking on new carpet, it's a culture of walking on eggshells. YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU SOME VERY STRONG CANDIDATES, TEACHERS, TUTORS, FORMER LIBRARIANS, AND MAKING RESIDENTS WITH A PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF LEADERSHIP AND COMMUNITY BUILDING. I HOPE THAT YOU USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A NEW, WELCOMING, PROFESSIONAL LIBRARY BOARD THAT WILL SERVE OUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY WITH EXCELLENCE AND WILL EMBODY OUR FUNDAMENTAL DEMOCRATIC VALUES.

THANK YOU. All right, Peggy Slay. Peggy, oh, I'm sorry. And Kathy Stevens is up next.

Hi, I'm Peggy Slay from Otto. And I want to share my concerns and recommendations for tonight's library board appointments by reading my recent email to you, Josh, if you don't mind. All right. Okay. I just said I'm writing. Hi, Josh. I'm writing to urge you and the other Macon County commissioners not to reappoint the three members on the Macon County Library Board whose terms are up in June. That's Leah Gaston, Diane Catlin, and Justin Bonner. Over the last several years, I have attended many Macon County Library Board meetings. and Fontana Regional Library Board meetings, and I have witnessed unprofessional behavior, particularly with Diane. She strangely possesses, who strangely possesses professes to be an etiquette expert. I was present at the March 2024 Fontana Regional Board meeting in Hudson County, where Diane became loud and disruptive, shouting at Margaret Carton, the chair, and Margaret finally asked her to leave. Diane refused. It has been clear from the beginning that these members are pushing the National Moms for Liberty movement of anti-LGBTQ acting as though there's a crisis when one doesn't exist. It appears that they have put undue stress, extra task, and unnecessary oversight over a highly qualified librarian. It has created a hostile work environment with staff leaving. the Jackson County Library, withdrawing from the Fontana Regional Consortium. And it will cost Macon County tons of money as we try to pick up the pieces. Several years ago, when I submitted a Macon County Library Board application through Abby Hardison, she told me there would be a background check and an interview. Neither happened. I withdrew my application a few days prior to selection because of my travel schedule. But later I asked Paul Higdon how applicants were selected, and he said, essentially, we just select those we know. I urge you to create a selection process and publicize it. And then, Josh, you responded, and I'll just paraphrase, that you did create a process whereby you now put your selections on a piece of paper, you hand it to the attorney, and he reads it. But that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about an interview process. How many of you guys have interviewed and talked to every applicant that has applied for this position? Have you all talked to everybody?

No.

Maybe, okay.

I'm sorry, I hate to be this guy. We're just getting to the good stuff, too.

I know. But OK. All right. Anyway, it's just I'm just proposing that you guys create some sort of interview process. I believe that it's fair that everybody gets to talk to you guys before you make a decision.

Kathy Stevens. And Constance Neely, you're up next.

Hi, everyone. My name's Kathy Stevens. I'm the one that's been emailing all of you, so hello. My husband and I have been residents here in Macon County for the last five years. We've both worked very hard to be able to financially invest in Macon County. And we now own three properties here and are currently in the process of building a home. And as such, we pay our fair share in property taxes. I'm very concerned with how these tax dollars right now are being spent with regards to the Fontana Regional Library Board. It seems we have a few members of the FRL Board who have rewritten the collection development policy without consulting the public or you all. as our commissioners or taking into consideration critical information from our librarians. They have rewritten this policy based on either ignorance, delusion, or flat out dishonesty. And worse, they have done this with tax dollars. As I have stated in my emails to you all, the new policy opens up our library system to lawsuits for violations against the First Amendment. This will cost the taxpayers in our county thousands of dollars in legal fees, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements. And I know that we have concerns about the budget here. Most egregious, the whole endeavor to rewrite the collection development policy was based on a lie. This notion that our librarians have some kind of ideological agenda. As I stated in my attached email yesterday to you all, we have proof that this is simply not the case. which makes it clear to me that it is not our librarians who have the agenda, but the people on the FRO board who rewrote this policy. The root of the issue, as far as I can see it, is that the FRO board and our own Macon County Public Library board are led by and consist largely of folks who are not librarians or even worked in a library, and therefore don't have the experience or expertise to create these sorts of policies. I strongly encourage you to rectify this situation and let sanity once again prevail in our library. It will save us all money and time. Thank you.

Like others before me, I want to thank you very much for the work you do. I know your decisions are taken with an enormous amount of heart and mind. And I appreciate the work you do. The decisions are not easy. At the last commissioners meeting, I asked specifically, what is the process for filling the three vacancies for the Macon County Public Library Board of Trustees? And while The answer did not outline the criteria. I am assuming that you have developed a simple and transparent framework so you can show the due diligence to the public and the consistency in your appointments. I'd like to briefly offer what I see as key criteria. They're in two categories. One is values and governance, and the second is skills and experience. Trustees should support the library's mission to serve the entire community and pay specific attention to marginalized groups, uphold intellectual freedom, resist censorship or partisan use of the board, understand their role in governance and oversight, and respect the role of the staff and their expertise in collections and programs, take decisions that are based in evidence, support transparent operations, work collaboratively, communicate clearly, follow ethical standards, and be reliable in their attendance and preparation for meetings. Under skills and experience, trustees should bring prior board, committee, community leadership experience and demonstrated local involvement, a genuine commitment to ongoing learning, ongoing learning in general, but ongoing learning about libraries and their governance, familiarity with libraries, and a thoughtful understanding of what role that plays. We've heard a lot about the role that that plays in our community and the conditions that we have here and the diverse needs. Practical skills from their experience, from their education that might include organizational management, education, youth services, library experience, communications, budgeting, etc. And very strong interpersonal skills that allow them to listen, to work through conflict, and to support board decisions once made. We appreciate that you may use consistent criteria such as these for each and every applicant and your willingness to carefully exercise good faith judgment in your stewardship of the importance of our library. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Liz Brolin, you're on deck. Welcome.

Thank you. Good evening. My name is Christine Alemano, and I've lived in Otto since I retired from practicing law in 2020. I'm here tonight, though, as a concerned citizen, not as an attorney, although I have spoken this week with attorneys from PEN America. They do First Amendment cases involving libraries, and I've also spoken with public citizens. They do a lot of First Amendment work. First, I'm wondering what the rush is for the FRL to pass a library selection policy, material selection policy, and a circulation policy before July 1st. That would mean Jackson County trustees get to vote. They're not even going to be a part of FRL. Why should Jackson County trustees get to vote on how Swain and Macon are going to select materials in their library? What's the rush? Whoever you appoint tonight will be ascending the Franklin Board. They're going to have opinions on the policy. And as you've heard tonight, community members have opinions on the policy. And they have a vote scheduled on that for the 22nd. They also have a vote on a circulation policy scheduled for the 15th. No one has seen the circulation policy. I asked for it. Mr. Magaha said he didn't have it. He's the head librarian. He's the head of the board of trustees. He's the acting head of everything. And he said he didn't have it. He had to get it from the committee, even though he scheduled it for a vote. So I have not seen that yet. What is the rush? It makes me paranoid. Second, you should know that material selection policies and circulation policies have been one of the most litigated issues nationwide in the past five years on First Amendment issues. If library boards guess wrong on whether they're complying with the First Amendment, the result has been six-figure settlements. There was a six-figure settlement a county had to pay in Wyoming, one in Texas, and one in Iowa. I have information about those cases if anybody wants to look at them. So if you get it wrong, it costs the county a bunch of money. I would not consider that a good use of my tax dollars. I'd rather see that money go to library materials, library programming, other needs in the community, maybe this veterans memorial, whatever. Third, as Sarah Palin once said, lipstick on a pig is still a pig. And a policy is not content neutral when it segregates materials, when it segregates displays, when it segregates patrons by age and says, oh, you're 17. You can't be in that part of the library. You can't check this out. Your mama has to come check it out for you. All right.

I hate to do this to you.

Am I done? Is my three minutes up? Oh, I had two more. Good job. Sorry, I can't get through it all in three minutes.

Thank you. Heather Johnson. Heather Johnson. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're on deck. Liz. Yep. Liz Rowland.

Liz?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, I skipped you. I'm sorry.

Hi, I'm Liz. I am a lifelong Macon County resident, and I currently reside here in town. Growing up, the library was a second home to me in the summertime, so it's always held a special place, and I would love to see that continue in the future for the community. I am heavily disappointed in the current board. I don't understand how costing taxpayers money, costing and harassing staff, and essentially ignoring First Amendment rights would not be fireable offenses. Fortunately, we are in a position that we have candidates with extensive knowledge within the library system. I strongly believe we should not miss the opportunity to appoint a more qualified board. Thank you.

All right. Now, Heather Johnson.

All right. Hey, my name's Heather Johnson. I'm from Otto. I'm here to ask you all to please... In the interest of small government, in the interest of parental rights, in the interest of getting politics out of the library, I want you to consider good candidates for this library board who have the library's best interests at heart and who are here to support access to the patrons of that library and let the parents decide for themselves what they do. If you all want to think about pulling out of the FRL, I want you to consider that that will make the library under only your umbrella. They won't necessarily have to adhere to all of the rules that they had to adhere to before, which is real great for y'all, but the minute the makeup of the board changes, it makes it to where The library does not have an independent governing body. It has politicians governing what is made policy in that library. Right now, the FRL follows the ALA guidelines, which is made by professional librarians who actually know what they're doing, unlike random people who moved into Macon County from far away and have more money than most of this board. We need people, hometown people on this board who want to increase access to the library and not undermine the library. And we need to have it remain politically neutral and not have different groups trying to get their version of religion or their version of politics put into the policy. If you read the current policies of the library, they are very neutral and they incorporate all of the books for all of the people. And that is the way it should be. Everybody who is under 18 has a parent who brings them to the library and can choose whether or not they allow their kid to have a library card unattended. It is not my job to tell people what books their kids can check out from the library, and it is not theirs. And it is certainly not half of Jackson County sitting behind me's job to do it either. Thank you.

We've got six minutes. Does anybody else want to speak in public comment? I'll wait a minute for the other room to have a chance to walk in here. I feel like you made a good point. We've got a speaker coming. Yeah. We're going to move on.

Thank you.

All right. I'm looking for adjustments and or approval of the agenda.

to make a motion that we approve the agenda as presented. I hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden.

Second by Commissioner Antwone.

Any further discussion? All in favor, please raise your right arm. Stayed aye for the record. Aye. Any opposed? All right. The vote was unanimous.

All right.

Discussion on revising fire district contracts. Manager Kagan.

Mr. Chairman, in your packet, you have a draft document, which is a revised version of the contract that we have with our 10 fire departments. Eric and I actually worked on that a couple months ago, and we obviously are not expecting any action tonight, but there are some provisions in there. Obviously, you remember about this time last year, we were going through a transition period with Cali Fire and Rescue and Morgantown Fire and Rescue. There were some lessons that we learned through the asset distribution process. There's also some lessons we learned as far as compensation for coverage when we required a neighboring department to cover for an adjoining department because of some sort of an issue. So basically, we want to present this to you tonight for your consideration. It'll also go to the Maine County Fire and Rescue Commission for their consideration. Typically, timeframe-wise, what we did last time when we revised this, your current contract has an eight-month termination clause in it. So, within a couple months, you probably want to notify if you want to actually make changes Whatever those changes may be, we need to notify the departments, give them the eight-month termination on a contract, make sure we go over the draft, and then present a revised version for them based on the changes we recommend and then any other changes that you want to talk about. So, that was basically just for your consideration tonight. One of the other things that we may want to talk about in addition to this, we talk about We changed the wording on the way the funds. We had a provision in our contract that if it was a joint purchasing agreement, then we could help congregate those funds to a joint purchasing agreement. We cleaned that language up a little bit, so we adjusted that because I know we've had some serious fire department budget conversations this year. We typically have those every year about tax rates or service district rates. So you may want to consider that. And then we actually had reached out. Buncombe County went to one service fee rate for the entire county. Jackson County, we talked about them with cashers. They do something kind of similar to that. In addition to any changes you want to make to this that would encompass any of that, if you wanted to look deeply at a different way of managing that funding, that's a fairly lengthy process. There's a notification period that you've got to notify the taxpayers. There's a report you have to generate. There's some statutory things you have to do to make that happen. If you want to consider any of that now in the next three months or so is the time for us to consider any options that you may want to look at as far as fire service, in particular this contract over the next 12 months. We're obviously not expecting any action on that. Comments?

I think there's a lot of conversation to be had with our fire departments. And it's one of our most valuable resources. And they're struggling.

They are struggling, Chairman. It's happening all across this nation, even with paid fire departments. We're having a hard time keeping... full staff, and it is a very serious conversation piece that we must have. And for their benefit, to be able to give them the funds that they need and the equipment that they need to protect property and lives, but they still have to be held accountable for the funds that the taxpayers are sending to them So it's a mutual agreement for and respect from the taxpayers to the fire departments. And it is definitely a conversation piece that must be had. And I guess at the fire commission meeting, I will be hearing a lot about their comments and concerns and thoughts with the updated contract version.

I've got just an inquiry question. I should have talked to you about this yesterday. On page three, we've got fire department marked through in capital for department. Why are

So it's verbiage basically. We have departments now that are multi-tasked. Usually most of them are fire rescue departments. So it's strictly a change in the verbiage. Instead of a strictly fire department, they perform other services.

Thank you.

Legal clarity.

Thank you.

All right.

Any other comments? to continue the conversation about the library.

Let me, right now I need your help. I agree with you about the process. And I've looked at this stuff for like three or four days since we got this out. I think with Mr. Ridenour's thing. We cannot meet as five to make a decision about something that we're going to bring to you based on a decision we've already made. Now, what am I saying is crazy about what I'm saying, where there's a law that says that we have to come and present it to you before we make that decision as a group. Am I really fouling that up, Eric?

Well, I'm not really sure the issue that, I mean, you keep, if you say something wrong, I'll speak up. Okay.

The process, I would like for this group here to be able to come up with something to bring to you, but it's a process, but we can't, We can't make that decision and bring that decision to you due to the law. I see you're saying, I'm not sure I'm making a lot of sense, but there's a process that you can't go and we can't make a decision outside of this meeting. We have to come here and discuss this and come up with an answer. Can you make more sense out of what I'm saying? Okay. I think you're good.

Okay.

But the process, I think we're not sure we want to go, and I agree with it, that we should come together here and make that down at my and John's office, McDonald's, and come up to some kind of a situation so we're all on the same page. But it doesn't allow us to do that, making decisions outside. But I think what you can do, I think I learned this when I was a chairperson. I can meet with Josh by himself, and we can talk about things. I'll know where Josh is coming from. He knows where I'm coming from. And we can even talk about who you're going to vote for, who would you suggest. You can do all those things. But... I can't turn around and I can meet with Mr. Antoine individually. But when you come up there as a collective group, you can't do that. So the process, we can't make a decision about something as a commissioner board prior to talking to y'all first. Am I messing that up bad? So I think what I heard a while ago is what I like, but I can't do it. is that we would get together and make a decision on the process. Before, we came to y'all and made the decision about the candidates that we're going to vote for. I think we have to let y'all... We can't make decisions outside of this group here. We have to make it in here, public comment. There's a law within that. Help me out a little bit there, Ms. Walker. Okay, all right. But when you talk about the process, it's not as easy as you think. Okay.

I was going to say, let me help you out there.

Okay.

But I'm going to lay everything out here for the library.

Oh, okay.

We'll get to the appointments as well. But I just want to say that I know this is an emotional, political-driven issue. But I just want... to let everyone know where I stand. We haven't discussed this as a board to make decisions or anything like that. But I think as far as the FRL, we'll start there. It does not make sense to stay in the FRL and pay hundreds of thousands of more dollars. And I just don't see a benefit in what that would be. You're spending $300,000, $400,000 more a year, and we're propping up basically another library. And I do have to say that, you know, we've sat up here and said, you know, we don't have any intentions of pulling out of the FRL. We've said that in open meetings. But the problem with that is, is Jackson County has pulled out of the FRL, which leaves us footing the bill for, you know, another us and another library. So My personal opinion is I think that it would behoove us to at least start the process of pulling out of the FRL. We can always say, well, we don't want to withdraw if it's not working out or if it's not what we thought it was going to be. I would also like to see if we decided to do that, for us to put our appointments for tonight's meeting off until a later meeting. Or maybe not at all, because number one, the bylaws state that we have to have seven, but a maximum of nine. So right now we have nine. Three are coming off. That's going to leave you with six. So we can still have a quorum. Is that correct, Mr. Council? We still have the quorum. Okay. In doing that, I think it would also behoove us to restructure this library advisory board, is what it would be. And I think there needs to be some more equal representation on that board. Right now, we have nine members, and I think six or seven of those people live in Highlands. So I feel like we need to get that to a level of having one or two from Highlands, one or two from Nantahala, a couple from Franklin, however that ends up looking like later on. I also think that in doing that, if we decide to pull out, I think we need to instruct, if we can, our advisory board as it stands right now and the FRL to make no new policies. No new collection policy, circulation policy, none of that. I think that maybe if we could retain some of the qualified people, if we pull out, maybe we should get their input on some of these things. And if we don't pull out, maybe we should get their input on some of these things. I just feel like we've got this advisory board, we've got the FRL, we're pumping money into the FRL. Okay, oversight, maybe that's your one thing. But other than that, you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for, I mean, really not a whole lot of benefit. We're spending tax dollars on not a whole lot of benefit. So I would just like to see us talk about exiting the FRL, based on the dollars and cents, based on the money side of things. And then I think we need to talk about our advisory board, if we keep one, how we restructure that if we restructure it, and how we appoint those people when we do.

Mr. Counsel, are we supposed to, or if we pulled out an FRL, would we have to have an advisory board? If we were a single county, would we have to... Well, you're talking about advisory, the Macon County Library Board? Yeah.

Do we have to have a... Well, if you didn't have the Macon County Library Board, then basically it would be you serving at that. It would then... Well, it's just an advisory board. Does the library board or does the...

now or do you hire the library library so currently the the library the frl hires those folks they are not county employees now jackson county they they flipped everything over those are gonna it's gonna be a county department with county employees and then they have an advisory board um So it would depend on how you structured it. And to answer your question, he's correct. You could either have an advisory board or you could essentially at that point they fall under the manager system and you're the board. So I think it would depend on which way you want to structure that.

Well, I think that's what Commissioner Breeden, that's a good point. If we do pull out of FRL, then a few months later, then the librarian helps set those guidelines and stuff for an advisory board.

I will say you asked me some tough questions, which is a shocker. So... Number one, I can't tell you exactly down to the penny what operating a library would be. I can give you some examples. We can certainly take their staffing. We can plug it into our grade system. see where those numbers come, plug our benefits in, look at the expenses they have. I mean, we have the expenses that are proposed for Macon County. There's also obviously some backroom, what I call backroom charges. There may be some shared expenses that we would have to figure out. there are some things we already would do. The financing end, the HR end, the IT end to some degree, we already have that function. So to answer your question, the money question, we could generate a figure within a reasonable time frame to tell you what we think that would cost. I will tell you, you asked us, you asked me, I think, can we run a library? I'll run anything you give me. The quality will depend on the inputs that we put into it. And I would certainly not be very thrilled about the process unless we involve those qualified people that are already in the system that understand this way better than I do. I can, Lindsey and I can work on the money part. Amy and I can work on the personnel part, but you're going to need that input if you decide to go that route from some qualified people, for instance, your librarians and your other staff that already know that. Jackson County, if I'm not mistaken, they contracted a firm to provide them information. I'm not a big fan a lot of times of using a contractor because a lot of times they give you the information that you give them. in a different format just to make you feel better about the information. And I think you've got some qualified people. And I don't know that anybody out here, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, would disagree that there's not some qualified people on all sides of the issues that could help you get to that point without having to involve a contractor.

It's amazing at the interest that's gone on that's been shown for the last five years, four years, whatever, from the citizens of this county about this library system and how important this is to get it right. And I really, truly feel, one, we saved the money. Number two is we had a local control of the library where no other county is giving us input on how we are going to operate our library.

To start with the FRL, just to let everyone know where my position is at on this, if we start that process to withdraw tonight, it doesn't mean that it's finalized. That gives us a year to try to really do some research and figure out which way to go. It is super important to me that everybody here understands if you came up here to speak, it does mean a whole lot. It's not about my stance on any particular issue when it comes to a certain extent because we're really here to serve every single one of you. I can say as a pastor, this has a spiritual content to it for me as well. I'm listening to all of you as you guys come up here. There are valid points on all sides. So picking the right people to represent on a board is super important. It's not a simple decision. It's not something that can be made just overnight. There's been a lot, there's a flood of emails that have come in. I've tried to read through all of them, but honestly, I don't know that I've gotten through all of them because there's so many. So it is pretty surprising that an issue like this for library has drawn so much attention. I do want everyone to understand that I have read through all the applications, and I do want to make the best selection for the county itself. Clearly, I feel like this process needs a lot more time and a lot more discussion because it's not something that we need to just jump into. Personally, for me, it doesn't make sense for us to stay with FRL to take on Jackson County's portion of that. But at the same time, we've got to make sure that we can run a library correctly so that no services are stopped in the process of this. I don't know, personally, if we pull out of the FRL. I don't know what's going to be lost, what's going to stay. So I want to make sure that for the kids especially, that they get access to as much as possible. But I want them to have access to the right information as well. So just to be clear, I personally, I want more time to go through this. I don't want to make a decision on this tonight. If we have to, I will, but I prefer not to. So that's my position.

Mr. Cape, would you say it's Wayne County 6%?

Bill McGah has here. The number I've got on the form is 6%.

Is that 6% of the budget?

So to my point right here,

It's hard for me to fathom. I mean, I broke down even numbers, but that foot making county, until I just heard that at 47, Jackson County at 47, and Swain County at 6. But I can't see how we can partner with the 6% and us carry 94% of the way. I just, I can't see how, if you throw away the emotions, it doesn't, but I will say we sat on record. We paid, I'm going to say extensive legal fees to iron out a contract. that we were satisfied with, that we thought Jackson County was satisfied with. And I guess they tore it up. And we were hoping this was over with a long time ago. And to Commissioner Antoine's point about the emails, I made a comment, I made a vow to myself that I'll reply to every one of them. And every time I opened my email box, there was 25 to 30 more. And that's every time you open it. There was hundreds of emails. And to Commissioner Sherrill's point, you know, you can feel the passion. and from everybody, and it's just so hard, and I think that's why it's such a delicate topic that I think you understand none of you or us are taking this decision lightly, but if you look at the math and you look at the numbers, I don't know how we can carry the surplus of a county that contributes 6%. I mean, I'm not throwing Jackson County under the bus, but Jackson County's kind of left us holding the bag right here. And I don't know what else to do. I think we have to start the process tonight. I think we have to. And we let it play out and see how it goes. I mean, I don't know what else to do.

To your point, Chair, if we start that process, it doesn't mean it's final. It still gives us a year's time to make a decision. So I don't want anyone to feel like we're just making a hard-line decision. But I am in agreement with you that we should at least try to start this process.

Well, I just don't see how financially we can. I mean, we just... We just didn't approve $2.4 million for the schools. We had ambulances and cop cars, and now we're asking for half a million or more to go to a library that we're holding everybody tight as it is. And for me, it's not emotional. It's a financial decision.

It's tough. Any other comments? There's no other way to describe it, Chairman. It is a financial burden on the taxpayers of Macon County for what? What is FRL going to provide to the patrons of the library that would create the additional funding better than what that library... I mean, we own the building. We own the contents. We maintenance the place. We take care of it. I mean, why would we pay...

According to the contract.

Look, I'm going to call an order right here. Carry on, Commissioner Sherrill.

No, I mean, I just agree with you 100%. It's a financial, what Jackson County has with them leaving and us doing 94% of the funding for FRL makes absolutely no sense.

The problem is the July 1 deadline. We don't start the process today. We have to call a special meeting. I mean, is there any information that we're going to have in two weeks that we don't have now?

I don't know that I can have you all the financial information in a couple weeks, and actually Commissioner Breeden will be out of town toward the end of the month. So I don't know that I think you're going to have some difficulty calling another meeting with all the folks by the end of the month. I can certainly... We will start, if this is the route that you want to go, we will start the process immediately to try and put some draft figures together, meet with the people we need to meet with, get some information. I will say Lottie Barker in Swain County has been very, she's communicated back and forth with me. She's actually, she retired and like I said, the new person has just started and she's trying to help him. And we have just not been able to communicate in the last couple of days as far as trying to figure out how they're dealing with the situation. But I will certainly follow up with her and have some more information.

If we were to make a motion to exit this agreement, does that go into effect today or July 4th?

So... You just have to give your notice today. It doesn't become effective until July of 2027. So you've got the year to withdraw. So all you're doing is giving the notice of the intent. If you're going to give notice of intent, you have to do it before July 1 for the next calendar year.

And Eric made a point a little while ago. That is part of the agreement that you approve, but it's also part of the 21 NCAC 308, the state library system, you have to give them notice too, which has to do with the grant funding you may get back from them, which also helps fund some of your projects. So you want to, that's the other reason that the year was put in there, the year notice was put in there.

Just to be clear, Eric, if we do, if we did end up pulling out since both two counties would be out, we keep,

the contents of everything within the library right yes yeah there's a there's a little bit ambiguity in that agreement in that if Jackson is the first to go out I think they forfeit a good amount of resources they revised that agreement so that they keep the books but anything else that was bought by Fontana Regional Library system including the computers and the furniture, I think that all stays in the FRL. So I think they forfeit that. So if, by Jackson getting out, I think that they, I think they forfeit a lot of assets of their library that go to, will need to be divided between Macon and Swain. And so we'll get those, we'll get the benefit of that, regardless whether or not Macon, I mean, that should happen come July 1. I think that's what Jackson County forfeited. then, well, it goes to FRL. Then if FRL disbands, in other words, if Macon or Swain likes to get out or both like to get out the following year, then they would have to divvy up the Fontana Regional Library assets.

Okay. Well, in regards to the Fontana Regional Library System, I would like to make a motion that we give our notice of intent to withdraw from the Fontana Regional Library System.

Second.

I hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden.

Second by Commissioner Antoine. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor, please raise your right arm. State aye for the record. Aye. Any opposed? Aye.

I just don't have enough information to make a decision.

Mine's no. Please let the record reflect the notes four to one. Motion passes.

All right. So in continuing to discuss this library, when we're talking about these appointments, are we going to reappoint folks today? Are we going to see if we can do some hold off? I mean, I would love to see us get our librarian involved. and maybe restructuring this advisory board.

I'm OK with that.

I'm fine. I think that's fair.

All right, so we kind of skipped me there. I need a motion to approve the consent agenda. We'll get to appointments. Motion to approve the concerns. All right, thank you. I hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden, second by Commissioner Antwine. Any further discussion? All in favor, please raise your right arm, state aye for the record. Aye. Any opposed? All right, to your appointments.

I mean, if we say no to... voting on the appointments tonight. We still have a year of operations in that library system. And we have six of the regional board. Is that what? No. Six of the Macon County. Macon County.

And we, if we decided to restructure that advisory board to, you know, kind of, put some diversity on there, if you will, as far as the geographical areas and the library. You know, right now, the main representation is from Highlands. Can we do that within that one-year period? And I think that's where we need to be.

Well, I think if you ultimately withdraw, I think you're going to have to, because then you're going to have to decide if you're going to have the Macon County Library Board. Are they the ones who hires and... makes the decisions to, say, hire the librarian, because right now apparently that's done by the FRL, or does that get done by your county manager? Do they do the hiring? So I think you're going to have to decide, is that going to be a full board that makes that decision, or is it going to be under the county manager who makes that decision?

Well, I think right now the Macon County Public Library Board is an advisory board. I think you keep them that way, and it falls under the county manager to hire them, just like it does every other department.

With the exception of DS, for instance, DSS, they have a board that recommends. You, as a board, still have to approve it. But then you just changed that with the health department, with Consolidated Health and Human Services. You just went the opposite direction with them. So you have two examples, but the majority are manager.

So who makes all the decisions for Macon County until the final decision is made? You don't have the authority to hire and fire FRL employees?

So your existing structure will remain until June 30, 2027, unless something changes otherwise. But essentially, your FRL and your existing processes will remain essentially unchanged until that day. Correct, Eric? I agree with that. Now, I will, thinking through that, obviously Jackson County is a good example. Right, wrong, or indifferent, we can obviously see what processes they went through. but you can't wait until June 30 to hire people for the library. We obviously, if that's the route you chose to go, we need to have whatever process in place that you want, whether that's an advisory board making recommendations, ever how you want to process that, that needs to happen three to six months before July 1, because obviously those folks are going to be concerned who they're going to work for if they're working, and You want to make sure you capture those quality people before they end up going somewhere else. And you don't want any lapse in service either come July 1.

I guess the most important part of that question is how critical are these three appointments for the operation of FRL for at least the next year?

I don't know that I can answer that question. There is still a quorum they could hold a meeting, but I don't know that I can answer how critical those three particular positions are.

As far as they apply to FRL, I don't think that it does. I think it applies to the Macon County group.

And you do, as Keezer makes a good point, you do need to look at the other members on there. I don't know all their expiration terms, so we would have to look at them to see if you had another one or two. I don't know those, so we would have to look at that, and we could certainly explore that.

But between now and the next appointments, you could potentially restructure that. that advisory board that way going forward. If we ended up going this year and we ended up pulling out, we would have that in place.

Yes. And the next meeting of the local library board is the first Tuesday of the month, which is August, I believe. You just had one in June, so it goes to August. Okay.

I mean, I don't... I'm torn. I mean, if...

But anyways... All right.

Point of order. Go ahead. Um...

I think if we have a quorum on the board, then I agree with Commissioner Braden that there's no need in rushing the appointments. Let's restructure and work through the process. I agree with that.

Is there a need for a closed session? I don't have any, Mr. Chairman.

Councilman?

I don't have one. I've got one pending, but nothing.

Motion to adjourn.

I hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden. Second. Second by Commissioner Antoine. All in favor, raise your right arm and state eye for the record. Aye.