Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¶¶ ¶¶ Thank you. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¦ ¦ ¶¶ ¶¶ Yeah.

You know, the exception is for zoning and housing. That's fine. Yeah, so this isn't here. Nice. I could get, um...

There's a screen behind me. I was just asking if I could get that.

I guess, but you do always want to give me the option to get up here.

Yeah, let's do it. I know. I'm going to do it. . . . . . . . .

Nice to meet you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

recording in progress can i have your attention please we'll be starting up shortly

Good evening and welcome to Lowell Planning Board for June 1st, 2026. This meeting is being broadcasted live on Channel 6 and on the Lowell LTC YouTube page. The first matter on the agenda this evening would be the approval of the minutes from the May 18th, 2026 meeting.

What's the request of the board? Chairman, I have one correction there. I think on, I appreciate Mary. I'm doing a good job on the minutes and incorporate some changes that we discussed online already. But on page four, my last name is missing a G on two locations. So just a small correction there. Thank you.

Any other board members have any comments? Mr. Tenzer, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Second. Who seconded? I'm sorry. Lucia seconded. Okay. I'll abstain because I wasn't present at the last meeting. So the motion carries, all in favor. Moving along on the agenda, the first matter on the agenda tonight is a site plan review and a special permit. 130 West Jenner Street, Boston Gas Company has applied to the Lowell Planner Board for site plan review and special permit approval for a proposed natural gas regulator. The property is located in the suburban single family zoning district. The application requires a plan review approval on the section 11.4 point 2. 3 parentheses for construction or expansion of any parking lot with more than 14 parking spaces off 4,000 square feet of impervious service. In the special per excuse me special permit and the article 12 in section 11.3 point 1.

Mr. Chairman, before we get started, I need to recuse myself on this petition.

Okay. The same here. Okay. So I was at alternate. He'll be voting with us tonight. So turn it over. Can we hear from the applicant, please?

Good evening, Mr. Chair. For the record, my name is Joshua Lee Smith. I am an attorney with the law firm of Bowditch and Dewey, and I'm here tonight representing Boston Gas Company in connection with these two applications. And to start things off, I'm having a little bit of technical difficulties. Peter, how do I switch to... Oh, here we go. Excellent. Thank you. And I'm assuming page up, page down? No. Pardon me, Mr. Chair. As you mentioned, Mr. Chair, we're here representing Boston Gas Company in connection with this infrastructure improvement project. The property is located at 130 West Jeunesse Street. To my right are representatives of the company here to help answer questions to the extent any questions arise. And also online, I believe we also have some other representatives of the company as well. So what I'd like to do is just really briefly give a highlight, touch upon some highlight overview of the project itself, and then just open it up to questions. So I'm going to start off with this aerial, as you can see here, as noted here. This little red dot here indicates the locus. And as you can see, it is surrounded by to the west Route 3, State Highway Route 3, as well as to the east, a number of residential properties. However, cutting right through the property is, as you can see, this sort of dirt path here. This is part of an overhead transmission line corridor. So there's an electric overhead transmission line that runs directly through the property, as well as a number of other public utility infrastructure assets that I'll get to in a moment. Here are some screenshots with respect to the existing conditions from the street view. This is from West Jeunesse Street. And a little zoomed in depiction here. The dashed lines indicate the property line. So these are the property lines delineating the perimeter of the site. And as you can see here, this sort of square shaped shape here and this rectangular shape here This is what will make up what's referred to as a gas regulator station, which is the primary purpose of the project. So there are two proposed buildings. One building is approximately 950 square feet. The other building is about 600 square feet. And as you can see here, in this more close-up depiction, you can probably see, perhaps, some of these overhead lines that cut through the property, and then this is an access way that allows access to service those lines. In addition, there's also a gas main that runs through the property, as well as there's a city easement, a sewer easement, that also runs through the property. So the site itself is somewhat constrained in terms of where the site can, the property can actually be developed. And so as you'll see in a little bit more detail in just a moment, my client has made diligent efforts to design the project such that it is as far away as possible from the residential neighborhood. There are a couple of residential streets that you can see here, West Jeunesse Street as well as Carroll Parkway. These are dead ends at the end, and at the end there's an existing woodland buffer off of Carroll Parkway, and then you've got the transmission line overhead infrastructure, the right of way, and then you'll see our proposed regulator station. This is one of the drawings that we submitted as part of the civil package that shows the layout and design of the regular station itself. There's a little bit more colored rendering that depicts the same. So just to get your bearings, this is West Jeunesse Street over here. And then this proposed paved driveway, this will be a bituminous concrete driveway providing access to the regular station. And then, as you can see, this sort of darker grayed area in this rectangular shaped area, this will be the fenced-in portion. This is what we refer to as the regulator station itself. So the two buildings that I had mentioned before will be surrounded by crushed stone, which provides for adequate and efficient stormwater infiltration. and the station itself will be secured by a six foot tall chain link fence. I want to underscore that this will be what the company refers to as an unmanned station. This is not going to be a type of a facility where people, personnel will be coming in and out every day. This will be an unmanned facility similar to a lot of electric substation facilities, substations, except this one is gas. So there will be personnel from time to time, but really more for purposes of performing routine testing, inspections, maintenance, things of that sort. I did also want to just point out, there will also be, I mentioned before, there's existing vegetative screening, protecting the neighbors already. However, in addition, the company is also proposing some evergreen plantings in this corner right here, as well as there will be some plantings on the highway side in the rear. And we've also submitted some renderings that show, some computer-generated renderings that show the station itself. This is wintertime conditions, obviously, so this is sort of worst-case scenario with the leaves down. And this gives you a depiction from a couple vantage points. This one's from West Jeunesse Street. This one's from Carroll Parkway. And with that, we are happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. If nobody else is going to speak on behalf of the applicant, then I'll turn it over to the public, and then if we have any questions, we'll come back to you, okay?

Sure.

Okay. So at this point in time, anybody here this evening like to speak in favor of this project? In favor? In favor? In favor? Hearing none. Anybody like to speak in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Hearing none. At this time, I'll turn it over to the board members for any questions or comments.

Mr. Chairman, if I may? Sure, Mr. Bichette. Just a couple of questions. Does a facility like this emanate any noise at all or anything that abutters would hear?

So, through the Chair, my... Short answer to that is no. These are buildings where the equipment, the vast majority of the equipment will be internally housed and nothing can be heard really from that. So this is not like an open air type of a facility where the equipment, the noise generating equipment will be open to the elements.

Okay. And then how often do maintenance crews or whatever would be going to that location? How often would — So I've got my colleagues here.

I would say about once a month, every three to four weeks. Again, it's for inspections, testing, maintenance. But this is certainly not a high traffic type of facility.

Yeah, I got that impression. It's about as low impact, I think, as we could probably have. For sure. And I mean, I like the landscaping that you provided, the fencing. Could you do additional screening with the fencing? You said it was chain link fence, but I mean, is there a way you could actually, I know they do the slats that are in there to, I mean, just to add additional fencing. I don't know, I don't know if it would be, if that would, detract or make it more attractive i'm not quite sure but the fencing you're proposing right now as you said is just chain link fencing with shrubbery um yes so one thing i'll point out mr chair is that this is unlike a lot of electric substation facilities unmanned facilities most of those have uh are about

eight feet plus one foot of barbed wire. So in those circumstances, those are about nine feet. Right, right. This does not have the barbed wire. Security protocols are certainly paramount, but for this type of a specific facility, it does not require barbed wire. So I'll point that out first. In terms of the chain link fencing, your question, I think, pertained to whether slats could be inserted to provide a more, I'm assuming, more opaque There may be some flexibility with respect to that. Sometimes, depending on the height of the fence, it can create sort of a wind load issue. Sure. Which might require more reinforcements with respect to the foundations. And I think if the company were to do something like that, I think probably the only I'd probably recommend that it not be on all four sides, really the only side. And I think even from the side where the residential properties are located.

That's more what I'm thinking of, yeah.

Yeah. Even from that side, as you can see from this depiction, there already is an existing vegetative buffer that provides screening. Correct. The distance is significant. And again, as I mentioned before, the company really tried to set back The siting of this is sort of literally tucked away into the deepest corner, far away, closer to the highway side. So we feel it's reasonable, what's proposed, just based on the location. And they did provide some plantings. They can only provide it in that corner there to the left, as you can see on the screen. The rest of the site, as I mentioned before, with all of the utilities that are there, there's a lot of constraints with respect to the site. You can't see it here, it's not labeled, but there are also wetland buffers on a portion of the site as well, which the company clearly tried to stay away from. So the site is a little bit constrained in terms of how it's sited, where it's located, and what it can provide. So I guess I'll leave it open to the team as to whether or not slats can be provided.

Yeah, and I want to see what my colleagues have to say. It's interesting because you're providing more landscaping on the highway side. than you are, but I know there is a kind of a buffer in there, but you are, I didn't quite realize on Jeunesse Street, you're actually not extending, you're actually connecting off to the side of Jeunesse Street, right? Is that correct?

That's correct.

Yeah. So that's interesting. So I'll wait to see what my colleagues have to say. I think it is a low-impact project, which is a good thing because Jeunesse Street is a narrow street and is in desperate need of some repair, I think, as well. But again, I'll wait to see what my colleagues have to say. Thank you. Thank you. Lucia, any questions, comments?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To piggyback off of what Member Frechette had asked with regards to noise, is there any smell that emits from the building, like methane smell?

My colleague is saying no. I've got the project manager here. The short answer is no. If you want elaboration, I can have him speak to that, but no.

Okay, I mean, it is in a single suburban single family zoning. That's why I asked. Understood. Also, what what determines the location of your regulator sites? Well, is it proximity to certain things? Because

So one thing certainly is site control. So the company, Boston Gas Company, National Grid, they can only site a project where they own it, where they have rights. So that's first and foremost. Proximity to other gas infrastructure is certainly also a key consideration.

So those yellow pipes that stick out of the ground, does that have anything to do with the regulator site?

The yellow pipes?

Just state your name for the record, please, sir, and your address. Thank you. I'm Joe Zagarella, National Grid Engineer. There are, I think you're referring to the yellow markers that are marking the transmission line that, I'm sorry, the high pressure line that we put in, I think, two years ago. It came from Tewksbury.

Mm-hmm.

They're just marking that line. That's for all of time so that they can find it easily.

So nothing to do with the regulators?

No, it has nothing to do with this. They just mark us for the line.

Also, I was happy to hear that it's not a barbed wire fence, again, because it's in a suburban single-family zoning. But how secure are the buildings themselves? Meaning, could teenagers use it as a clubhouse?

They're gonna be locked, for sure. I don't know, I really don't know the level of security on those, but they're concrete buildings with steel doors and locks. That's what I know. If you need more detail, I'd have to get it. They are, they also, as Josh just mentioned, they also are remotely monitored.

Meaning the security camera?

Yeah, but I don't know if they have outside cameras. I don't think that was ever in the plans.

So if there's a breach, you would have no idea?

Say that again?

If there was a breach onto the property, would you have any idea?

I don't know if we're set up for that yet. That wasn't part. I'm interested in the gas part of it. I don't know that part, but you can certainly find out.

Okay. We would be interested in knowing that, or at least I would be interested. Thank you. But other than that, I have no other questions. Mr. Chair.

Tal, any questions, comments? My question is that, that was just the other question I was going to ask. But in addition to that, you say that the building is functioning as a testing, and what else do you do in there?

I had mentioned testing, inspections, maintenance. That would have to occur.

That's all. Thank you.

And through the chair, just a little bit more on security. I'm told that they these facilities are alarmed. So if there is a breach, then it would be a remote troubleman that would be notified by the company. So very similar to a lot of the electric assets that National Grid has.

Anything further to eat? No? Okay. We did receive a memorandum from the planning staff, and I believe the applicant received a copy. Through the engineering review, they mentioned two or three matters. One, you need a trench permit, a driveway permit, and then under stormwater, they said a stormwater permit. I take the applicant's okay with those?

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Okay. Besides that, most of the comments we received were None are basically those 3 out for the stump stormwater permit the driveway in the trench. I'm glad to see how you screened it and how you have it past the well that that good way easement and it's behind that even which makes it even better as and I know with some of your pictures and when I sat down there to with that a lot of green space there which would actually help camouflage wherever it is set back because you did push it back pretty far which I was happy to see um and yeah because basically it's not really going to be seen from any of the neighbors in the street um and it's like I say it's not that big of a building um well the two of them side by side um I know indicating that this was a service that National Grid basically needs to help keep the neighborhoods intact with the utilities that they need. So, I have no problem with it. Like I said, planning staff had no problems. All the other city departments had no problems. Just the engineering wanted the three conditions with the trench, the driveway, and the stormwater. So basically, the request is for a, we need a site plan and then a special permit.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to approve the site plan. We'll start with the special permit because it would be more more stringent conditions which then we would incorporate into the site plan. But with the recommended conditions of engineering staff that the applicant shall obtain a trench permit from the engineering division for proposed drainage work The applicant shall obtain driveway permit from the engineering division for the proposed paving work. And the applicant shall obtain a stormwater permit from the LRWWU. And I would condition that the applicant work additionally with DPD as this is constructed, I would make it conditional upon, before the final sign-off from DPD, if it is determined that there needs to be further screening within the fence, some sort of slats are working with the applicant. Sometimes, and we don't have any abutters here, but sometimes as a project goes up and then you actually see it, it's not exactly what we were thinking. It appears that it's adequately screened with the vegetation that's there and the landscaping. But I would also ask that before final sign off from DPD that whether additional screening with the fence, and again, I'm not talking about a whole new fence, but a better treatment of that fence facing the residential side of the project.

I appreciate that. Through the Chair, and I understand what you're saying. The only question I have, and this is to the team, is if the, I think what you're suggesting is that the fence could be installed and erected, and then once it's on the ground, then a determination could be made after the fact by staff i'm just i'm not sure whether once it's i think that when they order the fence they either order it if they're going to put slats in it i believe then they have to i think they might have to do that at the time of when they actually order it as opposed to installing it without it and then installing the slats after the fact. So we're happy to work in good faith cooperatively with Peter and his staff or whatever other staff.

Because that could resolve it very easily and make it a condition that you have to put the slats in the fence and that takes care of it.

You certainly, it's at the board's purview if you want to condition it now to do that. I guess sometimes, and I think you may have alluded to this, that if you put the slats in, it may actually draw more attention to the site. I understand that. So it's a little tough to tell. So that's what we're struggling with a little bit.

Understood. Peter, I'm sorry. Peter, did staff discuss this? Any thoughts on that at all?

We haven't discussed it thoroughly. I will say, if we issue a permit for them to put the fence up, I don't think we can retroactively make them change it.

Yeah, I hear you. As an alternative, what if we leave it with planning staff, either the fencing or more landscape screening? I mean, if you had to put some more varieties in front of it, would that be something that would be acceptable? I mean, you could always put more trees in later, which wouldn't be a hardship, just to screen it a little bit better. Is that something that would be- So Mr.

Chair, I don't mean to be difficult, but that That goes back to the constraints on the site. We did explore adding more arborvitaes along the front, and it was determined that we could not. There's overhead, but there's also underground infrastructure and conflicts there. So the landscaping, unfortunately, along the front, there's really not much more we could do there. The fence type, however, we do have more flexibility with respect to the fence type. And again, we're happy to work with Peter and his staff, whether it's chain link or maybe the color could be different. That could be a black vinyl coated or something like that. If we could leave that, either have it not be a condition and work in good faith with Peter and his staff, or provide the condition such that we work in good faith with the planning department, the planning division, to come up with uh potential alternate fence types because again the slats it may or may not be something that even the neighbors understood yeah no i understand sometimes sometimes seeing right through it is better than putting a black you know sometimes you'd rather see right through it and all of a sudden you see it black just plain black

I mean, it is a commercial-looking building in the residential neighborhoods. Just trying to come up with the best way to soften that in addition to... Oh, yes.

Yep. I understand. If you could work with staff on screening and leave it up to them.

Well, of course, they had no issue with it, so I'm assuming that's not going to go anywhere.

Oh, boy. Um...

Work with staff with respect to fence types or alternative fence types. Would that be suitable?

Sure. Absolutely. So what you are proposing is a typical fence that you built at other facility that you have statewide.

I'm sorry, I missed.

I mean, you're proposing the fence that you are putting it up. Is it the typical fence that you're building elsewhere?

Yes.

Yes, it is. So it's basically what you do on other sites?

Correct.

And are they all residential in nature and with, you know, again, that's, that's, I'm just.

Yeah, because I know they have the one up by your neighborhood on 70 Boulevard Street right past Dougal Manor. You take a left, go down there to a dead end. Yeah. And that's all the great chain link fencing. Oh, yeah. But that has the... barbed wire on top. But that's just a regular fencing.

That's an industrial zone. That's on an industrial zone.

On a dead end, yeah. I mean, I think it's been pretty good myself. Okay.

I just, I know how this. Sorry.

Sorry. Go ahead. I don't mean to be difficult. No problem. I've just, we've been through this a lot, and we know that there are some constraints, but also some, the reality of changing the fence types. But I'm told that it's possible that we may be able to have the slats be done after the fact. But I know that it is more difficult to do that after it's already installed.

Okay.

I would just, again, I could just see, I know there's nobody here opposing it, but once things go up, that's when people.

Well, I could tell you, Mr. Chair, and we didn't get to this, but the company does do a very good job in terms of outreach. I mean, there are enough, I think people might complain about their, There are electric bills and gas bills, but I will say, as a land use attorney who does this in many, many different communities, the company does reach out to neighbors. To some extent, it can be self-serving, so when we show up to these hearings, there's no surprises. But I will tell you, this is no exception. For this project, and Matt O'Brien is here, he led the outreach efforts with the neighbors. They go door to door, and they've had discussions with neighbors about this, and there was really no negative feedback with respect to this.

Okay. So is the individual that spoke to the neighbors here this evening? He is, yep. Could I hear from the neighbor?

If you could state your name, please, and your position. Matthew O'Brien. I'm an outreach specialist with National Grid. Yeah, just to echo Josh's statement, we did extensive outreach rounds. We've sent mailers to the direct abutters, and we've gone door to door. We also complied with the ordinance to post the sign, so that's been up for some time now. You have to do that. And we really have not had – there's been a – direct conversations with some of the direct abutters. No major issues with the plan as presented here today.

So did you actually speak with the people at the end of Jeunesse and Carroll Park?

We spoke with a gentleman at the end of Jeunesse Street, right by where the driveway was. Yeah, okay. As a matter of fact, when we were putting the sign up, the large sign, we did speak with the gentleman there and, you know, laid out the plan and, you know, kind of a general design meeting, given the presentation obviously, but he was amenable and just wanted us to be safe. So all conversations have been great that we've had with the direct abutters and we have not had any opposition and we will continue to conduct our outreach schedule going forward with the project.

I feel better about that because I know sometimes even though you did the mailings where you're bound to do that, you have to do that. We have the about a list and you send a certified mail. You have to post a sign. So that's standard. But if you've had actually direct conversations, that goes a long way for me. Yes. Yes, we have. All right. Thank you. All right. Mr. Chairman, If the will of the body is that we're satisfied with what was presented here, that's fine. I would just go with the three proposed conditions that were listed from staff.

Yeah, which was the trench, driveway, and stormwater permit? The three of them? Correct. Okay. So we have the motion on the floor on the special permit with the conditions for the trench permit the driveway Permit and the stormwater permit. I second second by mr. Saar. So all in favor say aye aye aye We have four in favor and none against so that was on the special permit and So now we have the site plan.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to approve the site plan incorporating the three conditions that were placed on the special permit.

Second. Second by Lucia. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Hearing none. So the site plan is approved. Four in favor, none against with the same conditions. Thank you. Good luck, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. We're just waiting for our two other members to come back.

OK, moving along on the agenda, we have a site plan review, 225-259 Middlesex Street.

Lowell Community Charter School Public School has applied to Lowell Planning Board for site plan review approval to construct an addition to the school at the above address. The addition will include a new gym. The subject property is located in the downtown mixed-use zoning district. The proposal requires site plan review approval from the planning board per Section 11.4 for a non-residential building greater than 10,000 square feet. May we hear from the applicant, please?

Good evening chair and members of the planning board. We're happy to be here. My name is Lori Coles. I'm a principal and architect with HMFH Architects and with me is my colleague Andrea Yoder. We also have the school members here and the owners project manager team here and lots of people to answer questions including our civil engineer which were a lot of items on there to be covered. So we're going to try not to go through every single detail of the package you received, but instead respond to some of the questions asked. In particular, our presentation is going to include colored renderings and material information, and also we're trying to respond now to some of the specific requests that were made in your review comments that we received. Thank you. So everyone can see our screen. Yes? We're going to switch to the presentation. Perfect. Okay, so the subject property, like you just said, is what we call Mill 5. The portion of the site we're looking at is to the south of the main mill building. And this is a view of the context as it is now, mostly a parking lot with an old turbine building and a smokestack. And again, this is an existing site plan showing all the current conditions, Middlesex Street along the bottom of the page. The school's entrance is along Jackson Street and that is where it will remain even after this project is completed. And this is the proposed build area. Again, as you've already mentioned, it is a new athletic and community center. It has an entrance for pedestrians coming off of Middlesex Street. We are expanding on the playground area that already exists. The playground area closest to the mill building is a little bit depressed and lower. The upper playground area where you're seeing it says basketball is again expanding that play area for the students. One thing that's pointed out here and a little bit on the close-up, there was an ask that we set back the fencing of that upper playground, and we are showing that reflected here and in subsequent images that you'll see. One thing that I will point out from the package you received, we have since gotten further information from National Grid, who has left the room, about our location. So originally we understood from them that they did not want to use the existing transformer location. So we moved it and put it close to the street and thought that would be better. They have since told us that they want to use the existing transformer location. So this is reflective of that in diagram and we are resolving that as a team as we speak. And so this is that close up and again the request was to pull back the fencing. It's just six foot fencing. Six foot fencing? six foot fencing, that's the corner of Middlesex and Canal, and so this is showing that pullback, the 15 foot dimension, which as it turns out, we are able to do very easily as far as design goes because that transformer's gonna move to the other location. So that worked out. So then a little bit just it was pointed out and acknowledged in your review comments, but just the client school would like to just reiterate we're not changing the site circulation, the drive circulation, the drop-off pickup. Everything is staying as it has been along Jackson Street. And then this is just a zoom into the floor plan. Again, it's mainly a new gymnasium for the school, entrance, lobby, some storage, some office space, toilet. And then it connects to the mill building. We're providing a new elevator that will connect all the floors of the mill building, infinitely making the school much more accessible for the occupants. So here's a rendering of the elevation straight on. We do have perspectives as well. In earlier times and earlier feedback and comments, both with Historic and other comments made, the request about activating the street presence was very important. There was talk about windows. We have windows on the portion that's not the gymnasium, which on your screen is to the left. So that again, that's activated. You can see the lobby and activity happening there. And then what we're designing is a fencing that is actually has modulation in depth, as well as having a pattern graphic on it. This is highlighting Lowell Community Charter School as a graphic here. And again, this is all what you'll see some other renderings, what a pedestrian would be walking by. We certainly appreciate the concern of saying, If it's a solid gym wall, that's not so appealing. Um, but again, both material wise, and again, my colleague will go into the detail of what the materials are, but you can see it is both an activated building elevation, as well as this, um, proposed fencing that Historic is very accepting of, and we're going to continue to work with them on the actual design and pattern because there's actually more fencing in just a moment. So this is a view, more of a perspective view, which I think is, you know, easier to understand. We did go with sort of a red theme to go with the brick and the red brick and masonry in the area. The fencing to the left, sort of where the car is and to the left and all the way to the end, we're actually, again, going to continue to work with historic and that's going to have some more historic graphics and elements, again, giving a presence of what was on the site. over the years and then bringing it to today, what's on the site. And again, this is an entrance point for the school for their community use. A view from the other direction, again, of the same building. And again, I think my colleague shows you what each of the materials are that will give you that much more depth of understanding of what we're proposing. A pedestrian view, again, activating the sidewalk. In our humble opinion, infinitely better than the blacktop that's there now with people coming and going and active use. So this is the long elevation, again, the lower fencing along the play area, pulled back from Canal Street, going to be activated with historic components, and then again, some glass at the entrance lobby, again, welcoming visitors, and then more fencing with the colorful graphics activating the rest of the fence line. And Andrea, you just.

Hi, I'm going to just take you through the materials on the building and the site.

Just give us your name for the record, please. Thank you.

Andrea Yoder. Thank you. HMFH. So the building is mostly a metal insulated panel facade. with a base of masonry. On the main building, the base is a decorative CMU. You can see on the lower left there, it will have, along the street side, a bit of a texture there. And then everything above that is the metal wall panel system. Right now we're proposing three colors, the red and two tones of gray. going around the building. Behind the main gymnasium portion of the building where the tower for the elevator is, that will be a brick masonry in a color that's going to be similar to the existing building, although the texture will be a little bit different to sort of differentiate from the historic existing building. We talked about the windows on the lower portion of the building where the lobby is. The other areas that are shown in sort of a white grid, rectangular grid, that's a fiberglass panel system. So it allows light into the gym without having direct views and provides a nicer light for the interior of the gym. So it breaks up the facade as well. introducing a pattern into the Middlesex elevation. The panels do have a bit of a rib pattern. You can see in the middle upper portion in the blue, very small, but you'll notice it when you're at the street level. This next series of photos are pictures of actual samples that we're looking at. So again, the different colors of the metal wall panel, the actual profile of the metal wall panels in white on the upper center, the fiberglass panels in the upper right. Two colors of the decorative CMU. The one with the more texture will be a long Middlesex and then the lighter color that has a smooth finish will be on the interior of the site next to the play areas. So it's less likely kids will get scratched up if they knock into it a bit. And then we've got the brick there. The first one ILLUSTRATES WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH THE NEW PORTION OF THE ELEVATOR TOWER. SO IT'S A SIMILAR COLOR BUT A BIT OF A DIFFERENT TEXTURE THAN THE EXISTING MILL. AND THEN THE INFILL WHERE THERE'S SOME PLACES WE NEED TO DO SOME REPAIR WORK AT THE BACK OF THE BUILDING. IT WILL NOT BE VISIBLE TO THE STREET BUT IT WILL MATCH THE as much as possible the existing brick on the building. And then just going to that signage panel graphic on the front of the gym, this is some pictures of the system we're using. It's a post with some horizontal rails that the panel's attached to. The center photo that's green with the vegetation look, that's just an example of how whatever we design, the graphic will just cover the whole panel. The panels will just march along that street. Right now we have them moving in and out a couple inches just to give it a little bit more activation along there, but the panels will come together. The posts will sit behind all the panels. So just an example of what that looks like with the graphics on it. And now I'll let our civil engineer talk about utilities and stormwater.

Thank you.

Good evening, Chairman and members of the board. My name is Matthew Zaroli. I'm the civil engineer from Samiotis Consultants. So this is an overview of the utility plan. We have both the existing and proposed utilities shown. As you can see, we've added just a couple of X's where the utilities will be removed, where the proposed building is. There's some old electric lines and gas lines that will be relocated. and then the majority of the utilities in Middlesex Street that we're connecting to. So you have the electrical, and this is the old location. I will note we're obviously shifting to the east, but currently the electrical was shown there. We'll just move that to the east side of the building at the center. New water line and then the new sewer line, which the engineering department requested that we upsize to six inch, which we will do. And then this is the stormwater plan. So there are two, well, there's actually four major infiltration systems that we're proposing. The largest is actually the lower left corner, because that's a deeper system. That'll consist of 18 plastic chambers, approximately five feet tall, buried underground in stone. And most of the roof, the entirety of the roof, rather, is being directed into that, as well as the entire upper play area. Again, that may shift slightly with the transformer location, but we have some flexibility there. That system will discharge through a six-inch pipe to the west, and it will connect to Canal Street overflow when the system fills up to Canal Street. with a tie-in to the existing 24-inch drain. That drain system is a separate stormwater system that runs south and presumably connects to the canal. And then going to the north of that, we have an independent system that is essentially two dry wells at the north, And then a series of infiltration trenches, rather, which is just a 12-inch pipe set in a 36-inch square of stone that runs the full perimeter of the playground. The one question that engineering asked us to answer, which we will provide, is just in the northwest corner. It's difficult to see, but there is a small, right around here, there's an existing... Catch basin. There's an existing leaching catch basin here that is currently filled in with debris and wood chips from the playground. We just need to confirm if there's any outlets for that. The other two or three leaching dry wells, leaching catch basins that exist on site do not appear to have any outlets. So we presume that it does not, but we will confirm that for Gordon and the engineering board and make sure that there's no illicit connections. And if so, we will manage them as needed. Um, other than that, there is no outlet plan for this system. It's lower by about eight feet from the rest of the site. So it's essentially, um, has no place to go. So that system will just is designed to handle a hundred year storm without flooding. And then there's a small one in the Northeast corner. That's the same story currently that is a, uh, gravel and, and concrete utility area where most of the HVAC equipment is located. And that's going to be a small patio for the kids, for the students. So we're also proposing a couple of area drains and an infiltration trench. And then the east system only captures essentially the runoff that you see in that area from the east side of the building where the ADA ramps are. And that system is two dry wells and an infiltration trench connecting them. And we will just reconfigure that as needed to accommodate the new transformer location. So that'll be redesigned and sent back, but it should not affect any of our calculations. Again, the majority of the system is that large square in the southwest corner, which takes the lion's share of the runoff from the site. The southeast system does overflow to a combined sewer. It's actually, per discussions with Gordon, will connect to an existing catch basin in Middlesex. You just see a little arrow. That is a catch basin outlet. I think it's a six-inch outlet that connects to the combined sewer. We did confirm the diameter of that per the comments. And again, it will only overflow in certain conditions. So we are meeting all the requirements for Mass stormwater and for the city of Lowell to reduce the overflow and provide more storage. And then there was a question about the sewer connection. We are proposing a new sewer manhole at the connection. So I will follow up with the engineering team to ask if they have any comments about this. But we have no issues with meeting their comments regarding the external drop as long as the proposed sewer manhole is acceptable. Other than that, the rest of the comments related to civil and DPW items in terms of getting more permits, there's no issues with any of those. We had no issues answering the remainder of the comments from our perspective.

Thank you. Anybody else want to speak on behalf of the applicant? No?

Okay.

At this point in time, I'll open up the meeting to the public. Anybody here like to speak in favor of this project? In favor? In favor? In favor? Hearing none, anybody like to speak in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Hearing none at this time, I'll turn it over to the board members.

Mr. Chairman, if I may? Sure, Mr. Bichotte. Peter, I guess just to you, Peter, is I know the comment under development services was the majority of the gym building provides a blank facade along the street. The board should consider requesting the applicant provide windows along Middlesex Street frontage at the street level to improve the building's interaction with the street. Now, also, it did note that this falls under the purview of the historic board, which they did receive approval. So I'm just curious what the, you know, from staff, what the conversation was relative to the windows, understanding that it already received approval from historic. And then it sounds like there's still some elements you're working on. So I'm just curious from the approval status. But, Peter, if you can give me some idea from staff as to what, where we are with that. That's...

So our team has recently taken over the historic board duties. So we'd have to look into that a little bit more for you guys. I don't want to give you any bad information. Okay.

All right. So and then relative to to the applicant, I'm not sure from the historic board perspective. Oh, I'm sorry, actually to Lucille, our representative on the historic board. Lucille, were you in attendance at that meeting? And I'm just curious as to.

I was. And I know that, or from what I understand, the LCCP team, if I said that properly, did work closely with Stephen Stoll and as far as the frontage goes, they felt that the opacity of the gym what do you call those?

Panels, thank you.

You know, kind of gave it the look of windows and then the main building where they're entering does have windows. And then there's also, you know, the material at the bottom that they're working on where in the presentation it says the name of the school.

OK, so it was a discussion and taken into consideration. I know sometimes having eyes on the street is something we want windows and not to have that solid wall. But you are breaking up that facade, which is kind of an interesting approach. I know when I read the original application, I heard it was a metal building. It was like, oh my god, what is it going to look like? But I have to say, I like the treatment of the building. I just, and I guess I can understand In being a gymnasium, I'm not quite sure the windows, you know, how that would fit into the use of the building, whether they, usually they're up higher if you have them, and what is that gonna do for the, really the street experience, the pedestrian experience. So I think there's some challenges there. So I just wanted some clarification, because we did have that as a, kind of a recommendation for the board to explore, and a couple of things, I think it conflicted with Probably historic board approval. Uh, and then what we're trying to accomplish. So, okay. I just needed clarification on that. Um, so is the smokestack coming down?

Um, it's coming down to about 30 feet above grade. So not, not, not a hundred percent down. It'll still be 30 feet above grade.

So you're keeping some of the smokestack. Correct.

Hmm.

Interesting. It'd be easy to put, if you, see, they always wanted to have the Christmas lights catch on across the city with the smokestacks, so we hate to see them disappear, although, you know, it comes at an expense, and not everybody is able to do that, so that's interesting. Will it have a use, or is it more for, as far as aesthetics?

Yeah, just holding its place, yeah. Okay. It won't have a use.

Okay, interesting, all right. And then the shade trees, there's two shade trees, right? One in the playground area, understanding the urban. Could you bring that up? Where about in the, is it more towards the street side as far as the, I mean, you know, and I know again, it's limited, but just having an idea of where that's placed, is that going to be something that from Middlesex Street people will see?

Were you able to see that? I can't tell if you see our cursor.

Yeah. On the lower left corner. Okay, great. corner yeah okay mill six and canal and you're upsetting the uh now is that act is that landscape is are there also shrubbery or what is that representing there this is some low planting inside the fence okay area shrubbery yes and there is a shade um here there's a bench underneath this so there's a it's like a

like a cover like a covering that goes over the yeah for shade just to provide more shade yeah yeah i've seen those yep um okay so it will be it will be visible for middlesex street understanding the interior landscaping you're not going to be able to see that because of the fencing that's more for the in yeah the experience of the people inside there okay very good i really don't have any other questions i think uh You know, the more activity we can create, the more development around there, more positive activity, I think is a good thing. In some respects, it would be nice if you can even have a little bit more activity on that side that would be more positive. And maybe we can absorb some of the not so positive things going on around there. But other than that, I was, again, pleasantly surprised with the renderings. when I heard the type of construction it was going to be. And again, that part of it is the purview of the historic board at this point. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you.

Caleb, any questions, comments? The jury covered a lot. I think I have a question about the trees. I didn't realize the trees are there. So I think... That's a good location since you can see it from both sides of the street. Can you specify what trees that would be and how tall would you expect them to grow?

We don't have the exact tree. I mean, we could provide that to you.

It's definitely... Or maybe the type of trees that you're envisioning?

It's a deciduous tree.

It's a deciduous. So it will have some type of a, how do you call it?

Yeah, it'll be green and yeah, exactly.

I see. And it will be a shade tree in a way.

And provide shade, exactly.

Yeah, because I was thinking like, well, otherwise they look a little bare and I'm wondering if the small planting is going to be like very tall, like, I don't know, maybe not bamboo, but like, you know, then they can stick out beyond the fence. But I think you've got the trees, so that's good to know. Thank you for that confirmation. I have a question about the lower playing playground with no overflow. OK, what's the worst case scenario? Do you try to pump water out of it if it really gets flooded down there?

Yeah, so currently the subsoil is sandy. There's quite a bit of sand, especially the western portion of the site and as you get closer to the canal. My suspicion is that the stormwater goes into the one leaching catch basin. There's also a very small area drain that's a brick structure that's tiny. I think it just finds its way out through the soil. But we did the hydrology calculations to confirm that we aren't making it worse. We're obviously providing a significant amount of more storage, and we're also routing as much of the site away from that lower courtyard. But that is why Gordon asked the question about that existing leaching catch basin and whether it has an outlet. If there is a mystery pipe, which we will find out, we will either connect to it, or if it needs to be demoed, we will do what the DPW asks. But again, there's a significant amount of storage there, so in the five, the 10, and the 100-year storms, the site still, according to the model, does not pond. So it should be an improvement over what's out there now. And again, our soil testing, which we did multiple rounds of soil testing, we found a few, you know, there's some history there, obviously, in the ground. But the subsoil was all extremely sandy, I think because of the proximity to the river. So I suspect that the high infiltration rate allows the site to lose the water quicker than one would expect, even through the limited infrastructure there.

I see. And then which stage of the construction were you... Sorry. We'll be able to verify all that information.

About the existing, we'd like to have that to you within a week or two. Oh, I see. Yeah, we'll follow up with Gordon as soon as we can. We had tried to do it over the winter, but the winter was kind of harsh, so that structure froze. We weren't able to get it open and get the debris out. But we'll have a Wainsdrains-type company come and clean it out. And if there are any pipes, then we'll do a video investigation. and forward that over to Gordon and see what his preference is.

Yeah, water is always a concern when they don't get anywhere to go.

Yes, and we actually had a different iteration. We revised it and sent them an updated version where we added more storage there and reduced the upper system, which was oversized, because of that concern to make sure that we really over-designed the lower courtyard, knowing that even though it's an improvement on the existing condition, we were adding as much storage as possible so that that play space is as protected as can be. Got it.

Yep. OK, thank you. Thank you very much. Talking about the lower courtyard, does it have entrances to the building from there? I'm just wondering, what's the design behind having that lower, whereas you might have it the same level, for example? Is it a design feature?

so it's actually there's a playground it's where the playground is now roughly it moves a bit because we're putting the building in um but it's at the same level roughly as it was before because there's entrances to the building the existing access i don't know if you can see the cursor is right through here And also there's a door off the existing turbine building about over here. So now we'll still maintain this entrance here into the building. And then there'll be a door off of the connector portion here to access the main building as well. There's also a stair at this corner of that same building that will come down to the lower play area. Okay. The kids can come down that way.

Thank you. Yeah, without seeing the site, like, the plan for the new building, it's kind of hard to tell.

I was like, well, that ramp take up a lot of space, like, between the two levels.

um so let's see you could this doesn't show that whole this corner but as far as the new building you can see a way to walk um there's a bit of a grade change here to get down to the main floor levels so there's a little ramp from the play area down to that door here got it thank you um

So I think that's all my questions. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you very much. Danny?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll keep it brief. I know you guys like me to keep it brief. I was surprised by the fact that we were going to have a metal building in downtown Lowell when everything's brick. So I said, well, Steve Stoll will take care of that. And he passed it. So what am I? I mean, if he passed it, I guess I'm good with it. I actually do like the fact that it stands out. That's kind of neat. I hate the fact that we're losing the smokestack. I'm with Jerry on that. I don't understand why we're losing it. And I was curious as to the purpose of lowering the smokestack.

There had been a structural assessment, and that really brought the concern forward for the school, especially that it's a school, especially that it's a playground.

You don't want bricks falling on kids.

Yeah. Okay. So it just, the comfort level was not there, and yeah.

Okay. And 30 feet will do it?

Yeah. Okay. We're going to repoint. We're going to put a cap on it. It'll be stable. Okay.

okay um it sounded like um after hearing from member frechette is that this plan is still evolving that's what it sounded like it's still changing we're moving things no

Well, the only thing I mentioned right off the bat was about the transformer location. That's the only thing that's not where we, when we set the package to you a month ago ago, it was kind of right at the front along Middlesex Street. And then National Guard got back to us and said, no, we actually want to keep it where it was. So it's not going to be along the front, which I think actually will make historic happy because that was one of the, the one thing that they didn't particularly care for where it was. Um, and then it's going to go off to the right hand side, um, in the vicinity of where the other transformer has been. So that's the only thing, that's what you're thinking of. That's the only thing that's changing on these planes. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. And it was my understanding, based on your representations, is that you guys are good with the comments from developmental services, engineering, water, and whatnot. You guys are basically saying, yeah, whatever they need, we'll do. Okay. One question. I was looking on what are we supposed to be looking at? Where are the dumpsters? I didn't see them, and I was curious as to where they went.

so um they're gonna relocate it it had been over down near the patio area there's roypson street here okay which is part of the school's property now um there's a dumpster here already for the mill six building and there will be one next to it uh for the school now um and this so the the trash will be picked up on this street

Got it. Okay. Thank you. Like the project, I think it'll be good for the city as well as the school. Thank you.

Thank you. Lucia?

I don't have any comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay.

Tom, any questions?

Yeah, I just want to say a few things. First of all, I am very, very, very familiar with the school. I was part of our original, I wouldn't say founder, but I play a crucial role in terms of early on. And I know this is a dream of the school to have this gymnasium because they've been using the building to try to get as much as possible for the kids, and I'm glad this is coming to picture now, and I'm glad it's moving forward. I'm glad that the kids gonna have a lot more opportunity to be able to have this kind of space, and I'm fully aware of, again, I work around the corner as well, and so I'm glad that this project is coming into, you know, So just a question for you. When do you envision this whole project done?

When it will be completed? Yeah. End of next year?

Oh, very quick. OK. All right. I don't have any other. Thank you. Thank you.

I was very excited that whenever I see a school adding a gymnasium, I'm always in favor of that. I mean, 100%. And so when I looked at it, I looked at everything as the most positive I possibly could. When I went to the site visit and everything else, looked at the comments, I'm like, whenever we can add a gymnasium to any school at all, I'm totally in favor of that. So I'm in favor of the project. I know, as you indicated, you're willing to work with the other city departments as they requested certain additional things. So long as you're willing to do that, No problem with the project at all. I wish him well on it. I mean I think it be a great addition to the city as well as to the students and you know the parents who come and get to enjoy it as well. What can you kids play there. Many events they may hold this. So yeah, I'm in favor of it. Thank you.

One more question about the dumpster. Do they just sit in where it is? I mean, even the meal number six one, do they just sit there? Or are there any screening or place or security? Or do they just sit on the end of that road?

Visual.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Robert Gignac, chief operating officer at Lowell Community Charter Public School. So happy to come for you to talk about dumpsters. So behind mill number five, there is a fenced in area with wood fencing that screens a single dumpster for mill number six. What we are doing with this project is we are extending that a little bit to add a second dumpster with the same metal, sorry, wooden screening.

Thank you very much. I think that covers my concerns. Thank you.

So we have a vote for the site plan. I'll make a motion that as indicated from the memo that we see from staff, they proposed a few conditions and I believe the applicant is in favor of those conditions. So I'll make the motion with conditions that the applicant shall obtain a stormwater permit from the LRWW addressing any issues from the stormwater team. Next one would be the applicant shall address water department comments regarding the size of the sewer connection. And then from the engineering department and the fire department that the applicant can comply with the engineering comment as well as the fire department comment.

Mr. Chairman, to make a motion, could we just add, because it wasn't really a formal landscaping plan, but that a shade tree will be planted in the playground as close to the corner of Middlesex and Canal. We want it to be visible from the street as well. Sure.

I'll add that as a condition. You got that, Peter, as well? So the outline as the proposed condition from staff as well as the tree comment that Jerry mentioned, I would add that as a condition as well.

Well Jerry, is there one street or?

There's two, but that's gonna be the one that's gonna be visible from the street.

So there's a motion on the floor? Do we have a second? Second, Mr. Chairman. Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Hearing none, the motion passes and it's allowed. We wish you well. Good luck. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care. Okay, moving along on the agenda, the next matter is a site plan review, 260 High Street. has applied to Lowell Planning Board for site plan review approval to operate adult daycare facility at the above address. The subject property is an urban mixed use zoning district. The proposal requires a site plan review for section 11.427. The board should be familiar with this project because we already approved this special permit a few meetings ago when we were sitting in the mayor's reception room. So can we hear from the applicant please?

Good evening, Chair and the Board of Members. My name is Quinn Quach. Thank you so much for your time today. So I am here on behalf of the Adult Day Health Center at 260 High Street in Lowell. Thank you very much again. We already received the approval from zoning the last So I'm here tonight before you for the site review, the site plan review. Now, we not gonna change anything in and out of the building. Everything gonna be the same. Nothing changed. So our goal is to provide the adult day help program that serve the community in safe, accessible, and well managed setting. So I appreciate your time and considerations, and I look forward to answer any question you may have.

Anything else you'd like to add?

You know, I review and I see that we still worry about the parking issue. So as I said, all of my employees are going to be off-site. No one's going to be parking. in that area and um for the the spade that we use for parking right now um that gonna be dedicate for pick drop off and pick up participant um i will have the side post up just example i say 8 30 to 9 30 no parking there whatsoever for drama and then for pick up i will have a time you know reserve that parking and the car will be pulled into that parking completely we're not going to allow is you know on the and over or on the shoulder of um and over in high street and we're not gonna you know run on us run down on the street and say, no, stop. We're not going to do that, that 100%. However, I will have my staff to stand at a sidewalk, make sure the traffic is clear, and signal for the driver to go out safely and go forward. Not going to turn, because right there, Andover and High Street, There's a traffic light. It depends on the participant, where they live. So either take a right or a left when the light is green for them to go. So I hope that's going to work. clear out for our plan. So once again, our goal is to provide the day health center very safely and accessible and managed well for our senior. And yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

So at this point in time, I'm going to turn it over to the public and see if anybody here would like to speak in favor of this project. Anybody in favor? In favor? Hearing none, anybody in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Hearing none, at this time we'll turn over to board members.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I don't have any other comments other than the fact we did receive some suggested language to even expand on condition for that was placed on the special permit. So I would just draw attention to that as as we go forward here. Thank you. Thank you.

No, I think we address All the concerns I think of. Oh, maybe except one. And I recall we received the code analysis from your architect, and it explains how the change of units would not require a sprinkler system.

Yes, I discussed that with my architect, and he said that because the building is not big to certain square feet that require, but when a time for the fire prevention department come down. They're gonna check all the alarm and security code. And I need to have all the fire distinguish as they recommended from the fire prevention department.

Okay.

Yes.

Give me just a second. Yeah, I mean, it shows here. I don't know if this is a copy. High Street. This is, oh, this is older. Oh, and this is a different, this is a different comment. Yeah.

Yeah. So this one says that the applicant shall be aware of the media suppression system.

Yeah. So the staff comment, and I also, I noticed the fire department didn't have any comments on this one, but then the building department mentions like fire suppression system. So have your architect confirmed and verified that with the building department?

I'm sorry, you asked something, I'm sorry, say that again.

Yeah, I'm sorry, on the staff comment, Under building department comment, it reads, applicants should be aware of the need to install a fire suppression system given new units. And I understand your architect thinks otherwise. So I mean, have he contact building department and work things out?

No, I have not nor my architect, but he told me if building department have any question, he's more than happy to address all the concern. Okay. Or at tonight, I can, you know, go home and email him so maybe he can, you know, reach out to building department.

Yeah, well, as the chair said, you'll have to satisfy the building department to get a building permit. So even if we approve the project, you can't do anything until then.

Yeah, that's going to be the next step. If I got approval from the board member tonight and my architect is going to go back again and do the next step, and then that's going to be if, you know, need the electrician or anyone i'm going to go very closely as my architect recommended to me and we're going to present that to the building department with the approval and then i will go forward for the uh health department that's that is all the stuff that i have to go through yes

Okay, it seems like you understand what needs to be done. For our decision, I think we'll just include a condition to say you have to work with the building department and address the comments. I mean, if you can convince them otherwise, that would be great. We don't know. We can't say what they will decide.

Yeah, that's going to be our next.

Yes. I'll let other members address the rest of the comments, but thank you very much. Thank you. Any questions, comments?

JUST BRIEFLY, MR. CHAIR. THE TRANSPORTATION COMMENTS MENTIONED THE PARKING AREA AND THEY SUGGESTED THAT THE VANS OR THE DROP-OFF VEHICLES PULL IN AND THEN ALSO PULL OUT. ALMOST LIKE YOU HAVE A LITTLE uh in that parking lot and that seems to make a lot of sense to not have people backing up on the street it doesn't put your employees in harm's way doesn't put anybody in harm's way so i like that idea um i appreciate that you're a firecracker and uh you've convinced us the last time so um i i have to say yes to this time thank you

Lucia, any questions, comments?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we've talked about the parking situation enough, so I won't go there. And I also think that there's been some mitigation with regard to staggering the arrival of the participants and the employees being off-site. I did have a question about trash. I assume your trash is going to increase. How is that stored and how is it picked up?

So the trash pick up, as always, set up by the city on High Street, not on Andover Street. And the door, the main door for our participant go in is on Andover Street.

Okay. Yes. So picking up the trash is not going to interfere with the participants getting off out of the van? That is correct.

Yes, that is correct. Okay.

That's all I have.

Yeah, the only questions I had, which I had back when the special permit is pulling in and out of the driveway. And I think the transportation engineer gave us a little more insight on it this time than last time, for sure. Well, last time, this time they told it. which way they want to do the pick up and drop off. Obviously that's something we'd be concerned with. And as indicated, you have to look at the building department, whether you need a suppression system or not. And also, I think you're aware from the comments that you're going to need a license from the health department because this is adult daycare. There will be a license needed by the Department of Public Health, which obviously, you need to operate that type of facility. But besides that, I have nothing further. And the main thing is the language on how we want to address the pulling in and pulling out from the traffic transportation comment.

Could you please explain again what you were proposing regarding the parking? And I know you mentioned some signage, and so if you could just explain that again, what you were proposing.

So, I'm sorry, I wish I have a, you know, the presentation. Oh, that's fine. You know, in the, in front of the parking.

Right.

I have a handicap ramp go up.

Yes.

and then i have auto pull around there so my plan is i'm gonna have a sign hanging right there that reserve this spare parking for certain hour no one gonna go there no one gonna park there so if anyone pull in they're gonna see it right away okay um customer or anyone or anyone just wanna you know just stop by they will see see it right there at the the parking space

I was just saying, plus you're there, so if they pull in, you're gonna tell them to move, correct? Correct. So your body's on the site because you're right there.

Right, yes.

Because sometimes signs can be, you know, like it says 65 miles an hour, you know. Correct. You go on the highway, you don't see that a lot anymore. If you do, you gotta be in the first lane.

all right mr chairman i so with that i'd like to make a motion to approve the uh site plan incorporating the conditions from the special permit which were the owner operator will provide transportation for the clients of adult daycare The adult daycare will not exceed 30 clients. Employees of the adult daycare must park offsite. And then we did receive some additional language, which if you can recall, we made it very clear we didn't want anybody out directing traffic, and that's not the intent of that, and never was the intent. But it was suggested that we have further language added to that condition. So the condition would be the owner operator will provide assistance in the egress and entry of the daycare vans. This condition does not impose any legal duty on the part of the owner slash operator to enter any city street for the purpose of directing or otherwise blocking traffic. Furthermore, this condition does not provide any agent, servant, or employee of the owner operator with any actual or apparent authority to direct or otherwise block or restrict city traffic in the same manner as a public employee. We're not deputizing anybody to go out there and control traffic. That was number two. We just want to make sure that that's clear. And then I would add that signage will be placed to reserve parking spaces for times of drop-off and pickup of clients in order to maximize maneuverability of vans in order to pull out of the site.

Yes, I understand.

Jerry, I'm going to add the work with building department to address the comment.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Again, and you'd need to for the permit anyway, but continue to work with the building department regarding their concerns relative to that they've cited in the memo relative to, I believe, it was fire suppression.

Do you think we need to add what the traffic engineer says from here today, or do you think what you said with the sign incorporates it?

Hold on. Drop off and pick up times. Is that the new on-site exit? OK, yeah. So if we could expand on the condition Peter, to incorporate the language from the traffic engineer, I guess, is the signage to have available during drop-off and pick-up times to enable the vans to fully pull off Andover Street and then maneuver on site to exit onto Andover Street in a forward direction? Yes. All right. So that's the exact intent. Yes. Okay.

Thank you.

Just trying to make it as safe as possible for even your clients. You don't want to hear screeching brakes as a van leaves your place and have an accident.

Yes, sir.

We're trying to minimize that. We can't control how people drive, but certainly we can try to minimize.

Yes, that I will go as well. Thank you.

So we have a motion on the floor with a few conditions. Do we have a second? Second. Second by Caleb. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Aye for the chair. Any opposition? Hearing none, the motion carries five in favor and none against. Good luck. We wish you well.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Okay, moving along on the agenda. Do we have any updates from any of the board members? You're done.

Chairman, if I may? Sure. I, as you may recall, I'm the Planning Board representative on the Loan Zoning Audit Steering Committee. And we did have our first meeting on May 20th. And Peter is on that committee, so correct me if I give an incorrect report here, Peter. And it was a good meeting. It was really a kickoff meeting. We reviewed some material and was asked to provide some additional feedback. But we had a zoning action plan, which had several items that staff has been dealing with, I think, for many years, which they felt probably we could clear up. uh some of the language uh obviously there's some items larger items for discussion uh as we move forward in this process uh what was also presented was a schedule and timeline um there's a planned uh in in one of the areas that was uh cited that we wanted to work on the zoning was the back central area and it was suggested a neighborhood walkthrough which i'm a big believer in that i've been involved in a couple plans we've done that The representative from the Zoning Board of Appeals, Sean Callion, did ask the question if he could invite other Zoning Board of Appeal members if they were interested in the walkthrough. So those are the two land use boards. uh i asked if we could get all the clarification i'd like to extend that to members here if you wanted to participate but we would be voting on any zoning changes so obviously uh there would have to be a concern as far as um you know whether or not it has to be posted if we have more than uh you know we have a quorum present so um i just asked for clarification on that don't know if people would want to walk it but Where it was asked on the ZBA, I didn't want to leave my board out as far as extending that. And then the different types of engagement they were looking to possibly do. And obviously we're going to follow up. The suggestion was I really think my suggestion and keep on that is that i think the zoning city's council zoning subcommittee really has to be if there's going to be buy-in for this to move forward and really actually get a vote and they they have to be working with the the city's um council's uh zoning subcommittee as well so the idea is to provide regular updates uh as this moves forward and uh looking forward to it uh i think um you know as as this develops and as we get into really i think more specifics and details i think we'll have further discussions that i certainly could bring to this body as well okay thank you peter anything you want to add to that or no no any other board members have any follow-up

Just briefly, Mr. Chair, I want to thank the Division of Planning and Development for the plans I received. They're actually full-size plans. I do appreciate it, and I appreciate what they're doing. I will say going forward, if I don't receive full-size plans, I will have a hard time voting for a petition. All right? I'm not saying that to be difficult. I'm saying it because there were some plans, and you're trying to look at it on the computer. You have to blow it up on the computer. Then you're seeing small little sections, and you can't relate the sections as to, is this north, south, east, or west? What is this graphic supposed to be? Once again, I want to thank DPD for producing what they gave me today. But moving forward, I think it's important that we get plans. I just do. Because you get to see the full picture, not just the little snippet.

Thank you. Any other board members have any comments? If not, we have a motion to adjourn.

So moved. Second.

Motion made in the second. All in favor say aye. Aye. We have adjourned. Good night and thank you, everyone.