Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening and, happy holidays everyone. The 12/18/2025 Loudoun County Planning Commission public hearing will now come to order. And as is our custom, let us stand for the pledge of allegiance. Members of the public who wish to comment on any item on the public hearing legislative agenda may do so. If you are in the boardroom, please fill out a speaker slip and hand it to the assistant deputy clerk of the planning commission at the end of the dais to my left.

If you are participating electronically, please call the number at the bottom of the screen. If you signed up to speak after 12:30PM, please confirm your name is on the speaker list as public comment sign up closes after twelve noon. Indicate your name and the agenda item that you wish to address. Each speaker, whether speaking on behalf of an organization or as an individual, will have three minutes per the commission bylaws. Written comments may be submitted to the assistant deputy clerk who will make copies for the planning commission members.

The commission may vote on applications tonight and send its recommendation to the Board of Supervisors or may forward the item to a work session for further consideration before taking a final vote. Our procedure for tonight's public hearing is as follows. A ten minute staff presentation followed by commissioner's questions to staff. Tonight, each commissioner will be given three minutes to ask questions of staff. A ten minute applicant presentation followed by commissioner's questions.

Hearing is then open for public comment, three minutes for each speaker. After everyone has had a chance to speak, the hearing is closed. The applicant and staff will then have an opportunity to provide any responses to public comment. Finally, there will be a motion, deliberation, and vote by other other one, accept a motion.

So moved.

Second. Second.

Motion made to approve the minutes by Vice Chair Miller, seconded by Commissioner Frank. Discussion on the minutes or the motion? No? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And I'll abstain as I was not in attendance at that meeting. And so that motion will pass. I think we're all here. Eight zero one with myself abstaining. All right. Next item is disclosures. And I will start to my far right and work my way across.

Jasper.

I met with the applicant for the Novak Substation on December 10 with their counsel.

Thank you. Commissioner Maderati.

On December 2, I went for a site visit for the Happy Paws canine site along with Erin and the applicant. Thank you.

Commissioner Combs.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On December 16, I had a meeting with the Aaron Swisselman, the applicant, regarding the Happy Paws application before us tonight.

Thank you. Vice Chairman? None for me. None for you. Mr.

Frank? And we have foundation then the strong very And the sure And And And in leadership we're applicant for the Novak Demo substation that we have tonight. All right. Our first item is Allegi twenty twenty five-twelve request for withdraw of land belonging to Rockland Farm LLC from the New Rockland Agricultural And Forestall Districts.

Good evening chair Keirsten, commissioners. I'm Rachel Evenchuk with Department of Planning and Zoning. Twenty twenty five zero zero one two is a request for early withdrawal from the New Rockland Agricultural And Forest District or AFD of 514.88 acres of land by Rockland Farm LLC. The New Rockland AFD currently contains 576.26 acres within five parcels. The withdrawal is requested to facilitate the establishment of a conservation easement with Old Dominion Land Conservancy.

Early withdrawal is permitted under Virginia code section 15.24314 for good and reasonable cause. The New Rockland AFD is located north of the town of Leesburg, generally between the Potomac River and along Route 15. Rockland Farm parcels, the two parcels are circled in red on the slide in front of you. The entire parcel between Route 15 and the Potomac River is the eastern parcel and includes the ferry landing for Whites Ferry. The western parcel is located along and west of Route 15.

Staff identified one issue as noted in the staff report, namely the potential termination of the New Rockland AFD due to the lack of a 200 contiguous acre core if the withdrawal is permitted. In consultation with the county attorney's office, staff has determined that termination would not be required unless and until there is still no 200 acre core during the next review of the New Rockland AFD which will occur in 2029. In the interim, it should be possible for Rockland Farm to reenroll in the New Rockland AFD or for the other three parcels in the New Rockland AFD to seek addition to the new Catoctin South AFD. The agricultural district advisory committee met on October 23 and recommended re approval of the early withdrawal for good and reasonable cause. Staff also supports a commission recommendation of approval of the request as a established by of a con establishment conservation easement on the property that provides greater protection from developments such as available in a agricultural and forest district with a potential 25 single family homes at the AR one zoning district base density of one dwelling unit per 20 acres.

And this is a good and reasonable cause. That concludes my presentation. I'm available for questions. There are representatives from Altamen, Land Conservancy present if you have questions for

Commissioners, any questions for staff? Vice Chair Miller?

Rachel, in the exhibit that highlights the site, the whole district, is that the whole five seventy plus acres or is that the remaining is that just the five fourteen acres that's coming out?

There's only five parcels. That map is of the entire district.

Okay.

And that circle, that red area on the northern part, that's the Rockland Farm.

Okay. I'm not looking at that page. But so the area that's there's a little 90 degree corner at the river and Whites Ferry Road, that's where the old Whites Ferry and the landing are. This is around so that's that parcel of land is not part of all this. It's on page two of the staff report.

That. So that's the whole district.

That's the eastern portion approximately 450 acres. Okay. And then the western portion is on the West Side of Route 15.

Okay. Gotcha.

Okay. The entire district, if you see that red circle Yep. Oval, that's roughly the parcel in question. There are three other parcels to the south of

I just wanna make sure that the portion on on the where the old the Old Whites Ferry portion is not part of the this the whole district itself.

Whites Ferry Landing

It is part of the

is part of the district.

It's owned by the family, the Rockland Farm family.

Right. So the yellow outlined portion here on the bottom right of that where the word ferry is from Whites Ferry Road, that section is not part is part of the district, but it's not part of the route withdrawal.

No. That that corner there is not part of the district. It is not part of the parcel. Perfect. If you follow Whites Ferry Road east enough, it turns north.

Mhmm.

And you probably can't make it out on this graphic, but if you go to the Eastern side of the Potomac River, you'll see a little white Yeah.

No. I you you guys know my question.

That's the Maryland portion of the ferry landing, and the east the western portion is on the Yep.

You answered my question. Thank you.

Commissioner Jesper.

I'm not sure I completely follow all that, but I have an entirely different question. Rachel, you're the total expert on this. I'm going to look forward to learning. As someone who has a property in a conservation easement, I know not all conservation easements are exactly the same, and some conservation easements allow development of one type or another, and I'm or different kinds of uses. And I'm just curious, does staff typically look at the terms of the conservation easement when they make their assessment that withdrawing from an AFD to put land and conservation would be beneficial?

Brooke or Jeffrey are here from Old Dominion, yeah, you could come up and

It's a general question and not specific to this one.

Well, would be the organization granting. You can sit over here.

Thank you.

They could answer it better than I can.

Well, no. The question was a question to staff. Marshawn, maybe

So do we actually review the terms of the easement? No, do not. But that is part of the rationale. That is part of the explanation that's provided as the reason why they wish to withdraw from the district. There's not a legal review of the easement that's Of

the terms of the easement at all.

So

staff concludes that it's beneficial to enter into the easement without reviewing the easement.

Correct.

Okay.

And I don't know that we were always provided the easement as part of the

Yeah. Application.

And we don't ask for them. So I I don't actually need that I it was just a point of interest for me. I don't have any questions about the easement specifically.

All set? Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner, anybody else have questions? All right. Assume we don't have an applicant presentation for this. Okay.

They are representing the non governor.

I'm Brooke Middleton. I'm with Virginia Easement Exchange. And with me tonight is Jeffrey Nichols from Old Dominion. And as Rachel said, we're very excited to be able to permanently preserve this important property, and we'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

Any questions? Then since staff has not reviewed it, I would ask the question, does the easement allow any type of development on the property being withdrawn from the aft day?

Can answer that. Jeffrey Nichols with Old Manila Conservancy. So, the easement will be negotiated with the landowner. The terms are fairly standard with most easements in Loudoun County. So in terms of development, it will be more or less along those lines. So mostly agricultural uses and fairly standard uses that are compliant with that.

Okay.

That did not answer your question.

Commissioner Myers?

Question me try a different way. Brooke, let me try the question a different way. Typically, in these easements, they do allow for either one or two or three residential development on the property.

That's correct.

And I believe that's the question that, not trying to talk for you, especially tonight, but I think that's the question you're trying to drive at is how many houses, whether they're or accessory, would be allowed on the entirety of this property being eased.

And and also many easement allow agricultural buildings of various types. So, you know, and they often specify what types. So I'm just wondering what

Both the county and the state of Virginia will review this easement. It has to be in compliance with the county comprehensive plan. The county planning staff will review it, and also the state of Virginia will review it because of the size of it. So they both would review it and the state and county have terms that they require in an easement. So any easement of this size is reviewed.

Brooke, let me try it one more time. I've I've reviewed these just like you have a lot. They typically say that you have you can do one house or you can do two houses when you have the easement on the property.

That's correct.

Okay. So what we're trying to ask you is

I we're

that.

Be negotiated the final terms, but it will be along what's typically approved in Loudoun County. And again, it has to be approved by the county and the state.

What's the typical?

I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you, Dale.

What's the typical?

Virginia Outdoors Foundation, usually one house per 100 is usually what we see, so something like that depends on topography, depends on that kind of stuff. But usually one house per 100 acres is a yardstick. Again, it has not been negotiated yet.

Rachel, do you have something you wanted to add?

If I could add, on this eastern portion, there are already several residential units on the property. And also, as I noted in my presentation, the New Rockland AFD permits has a minimum subdivision of 20 acres and prohibits cluster subdivision. As such, at one unit per 20 acres, there could be an additional, how much did I say, 25 single family lots and homes constructed on both sides of Route 15 for this property even without by it staying within the district without a conservation easement.

I believe their intention is something less than that. Correct?

Much less. No one would, the state or the county or the old dominion would accept it. It has to be much less than that. So in a nutshell, this is a chance to permanently protect this property. Right now, there are absolutely no permanent protections. And right now, when the ag district expires, you could potentially build a 100 homes. So this is very exciting to me.

Thank you. Commissioner Frank.

I don't know if

this is a question for our our our applicant reps or maybe Rachel, you'll need to chime in, but Vice Chair Miller was asking about the Whites Ferry location. So, to confirm, the the Virginia landing site is on the part of this land that we're talking about moving into easement.

Yes.

Would that use were it to be brought back understanding there's all kinds of legal issues with how long it's been now and and different things but were somebody to want to restore the Whites Ferry service, could that be done with this land in a conservation easement?

Our intention is to take that parcel out. So to to take maybe an acre or two acres and set it aside, and then we will have that issue.

Okay. So that little frontage piece that everybody always made the hard turn on to come along. Okay.

Yeah. We think that would be the best thing to do.

I I I would like to see that for whatever it's worth just to preserve that possibility down the road even if it's a very remote one.

Thank you. Commissioner Colmes.

Thank you, mister chair. Brooke, you mentioned the yardstick that VOF uses with their conservation easements. Understand that this one is not in easement yet. The terms of the the easement instrument haven't been negotiated yet with Old Dominion. But perhaps you can tell us, has Old Dominion, and I know you all hold a lot of land and conservation easement in the county, has Old Dominion ever agreed to terms in an easement where they allow subdivision in excess of that VOF yardstick you mentioned?

So reviewing our I don't have all my records on me at the moment. But yes, for smaller properties, if a property is only 50 acres, you could divide it into say two twenty five acre lots. In the case of this, we would try to have the lots remain as large as possible or potentially a group of small lots, then, you know, the rest of it would be undividable going forward. But, yeah, 50 to a 100 is a pretty standard yardstick for us.

But you would entertain some potential clustering? Is that what I

heard you Not in the sense of clustering houses, but typically, I think the minimum we have is 25 for any of our properties. But we would normally, it's negotiated with landowners that weren't very early in the process here. But we would advocate for 50 acres plus as the standard for us.

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Jasmine, I got one more follow-up.

And just are any uses precluded, like for example, use? I mean, is becoming quite a popular use in the county in By the agricultural

statute, wouldn't be allowed.

It wouldn't be allowed. Okay, great. Thank you.

Commercial uses are not allowed.

Including event venues and stuff like that?

Event venues. Well, you have the whole thing, which

going question And then to We'll open up a public question hearing on this item. We don't have anybody signed up in advance or online. Is there anybody in the room that wishes to speak to this item? No? Alright. Public hearing is now closed. And this is in the Catoctin District. So I'll go to Vice Chair Miller for a motion.

I move the Planning Commission recommend that the Board of Supervisors approve the request withdraw 514.88 acres, pin numbers 1000433657240183288314, from the New Rockland Agricultural And Forestville District as shown in Attachments one to 12/18/2025, Planning Commission Public Hearing Staff Report for Application Allegi twenty twenty five-twelve entitled Request for Withdrawal of Land Belonging to Rockland Farm LLC from the New Rockland Agricultural And Forestville District because such withdrawal is found to be good and reasonable cause since the early withdrawal would facilitate the establishment of a conservation easement on the property.

Motion made by Vice Chair Miller, seconded by Commissioner Myers. Vice Chair Miller, do have an opening?

Just conserving another 500 plus acres of land is a good thing to do.

All right. Any

other comments, the commissioners? All right. We have a motion to approve. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? That motion will carry nine zero. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Our next item is LEGI twenty twenty four dash fifty nine Novak Demos Substation Commission Permit twenty twenty four dash ten.

We'll get it for you.

Good evening. My name is Erin Fisher with the Department of Planning and Zoning. I'm here today to present the application for Novak Demos Substation. The subject property is 26 acres located at the northwest corner of the intersection of Belmont Ridge Road and Arcola Mills Drive in the Little River Election District. This property is zoned industrial park under the Loudoun County zoning ordinance.

It is currently undeveloped and is being temporarily used as a construction staging area. The site forms a boundary between the suburban industrial mineral extraction place type to the east and the suburban neighborhood place type to the north, south, and west. Site plans for data centers are conditionally approved for the properties adjacent to the site's east property line, including Brambleton Shreveport South data centers, which the proposed substation would serve. The application is for a stand alone commission permit to establish a public utility on approximately 7.9 acres of the subject site as required by the zoning ordinance. Staff notes there is an active site plan application under review for the proposed utility substation.

The site plan is grandfathered to the revised 1993 zoning ordinance. While the utility major use requires a special exception under the current zoning ordinance, it was a by right use under the revised '93 zoning ordinance. So a special special exception is not required for the use. Additionally, in 2022, the Brambleton South Industrial Properties rezoning approved the site for up to 350,000 square feet of industrial uses, excluding data center and monopole. On the screen, you see the proposed site layout.

The subdivision is situated in the southeast corner of the site to avoid impacting the river and stream corridor resource area to the north. The substation consists of equipment that is up to 35 feet in height that will connect to h frames and then to the 230 kilovolt transmission corridor located on the adjacent property to the north. Staff has identified outstanding issues with this application related to character and extent. Development at the periphery of the suburban industrial mineral extraction place type is anticipated to transition to adjacent place types using a variety of methods that emphasize full separation and extensive screening from uses that are not compatible with industrial uses. The twenty nineteen general plan also specifically addresses substations, stating that adequate consideration be given to their appearance and that adequate screening be provided to reduce the visual impact upon the community.

As the only industrial parcel between two areas of residential use, it is uniquely challenged in transitioning between the two place types, which places increased emphasis on how the substation is screened. While the proposal provides an appropriate transition through space and natural resource preservation on the north side of the property, the substation is located less than two and fifty feet from incompatible commercial and residential uses on the south Side of Arcola Mills Drive, where a row of nine existing single family homes and a daycare are located. The applicant proposes a 12 foot tall screen wall and an enhanced road corridor buffer consisting of a row of evergreen trees planted between the required road corridor buffer and the proposed green wall. The evergreen trees would be planted at the same density as the type two road corridor buffer and be 10 feet tall at the time of planting, which is four feet taller than is required by the zoning ordinance. Staff notes that the uses on the south Side of Arcola Mills Drive that are closest to the substation equipment are situated at a slightly higher elevation than the subject site, varying between approximately three and six feet higher, which reduces the effectiveness of the proposed screening measures.

Additionally, there will be a period of years between the time of planting and the time the evergreen trees in the enhanced road corridor buffer will provide the anticipated screening as depicted on the screen. Staff recommends the applicant increase the height of the proposed green wall to further obstruct the line of sight between the uses on the south side of Arcola Mills Drive to the substation equipment below the H frames. During the briefing at the November 13 work session, a question was asked about road improvements adjacent to the site. On Arcola Mills Road, left and right turn lanes will be added for both directions of travel. Dual eastbound receiving lanes will be added on the east side of the intersection and the 2022 rezoning for the property committed the applicant to construct a 10 foot wide shared use path on the north side of the road.

On Belmont Ridge Road, southbound dual left turn lanes, a right turn lane, and a crosswalk will be added. And the 2022 rezoning committed the applicant to construct a six foot wide sidewalk on the west side of the road and a 10 foot wide shared use path on the east side of the road. Staff recommends the planning commission for the application to a future work session to discuss additional screening measures. With that said, staff is happy to answer any questions.

Alright, thank you. Questions for staff? Commissioner Myers.

So what happens if this particular commission permit gets denied with them already having an active site plan? Does the site plan continue just to get approved because it's under regulatory application with a commission permit not supporting it? Or what would happen with the idea of that

site plan then? The site plan is not able to be approved without the commission permit being

approved Thank you.

Any other question? Commissioner Moderate.

Yeah. I have a couple of questions. So in in terms of, outstanding issues, I I I heard the screening is is the primary one right now. Do you have a specific recommendation or suggestion for the applicant what what they can fix? Is it the reason you want to go to work session? Or you proposed and they don't want to do that right now. What's happening in terms of screening at this point?

I think if the screen wall was increased about five feet in height, it would obstruct the line of sight to the uses on the south side of Arcola Mills Drive adequately.

Okay. And the sidewalk that has been proposed on the Belmont Ridge Road, I know there small is bridge on the north side of the site before just Brambleton. Is this sidewalk is going to connect to the existing sidewalks on the Brambleton side? Do we know?

I don't know the details of that, but I can find out.

Yeah. I would like to find out because otherwise it will be like a dead end because there's a bridge in the middle.

I'll be happily happy to get that answer for you.

Thank you. Mister Jasper.

I think at our last work session, which we held in the very cold room, I had offered and shared with staff some visuals for better for ways other jurisdictions were requiring screening of substations. And additionally, we've heard from a number of applicants about gas insulated substations, which are much smaller, footprint. I have a number of questions, and I'm gonna direct these to you, Erin, for now. So we've looked at these 12 foot concrete walls before. And while you don't see the guts of the substation, you're still looking at a really unattractive 12 foot concrete wall.

And our concern here is the adjacent uses, residential and commercial, and the visual impact that having this very industrial use hard up against these residential uses will have on people as they come and go to work or to school or to daycare or whatever. I'm wondering, you know, has staff thought more about the screening requirements other than just saying, oh, the concrete wall needs to be taller?

Consistent with other substations throughout the county, staff's thought was that the higher wall in addition to the enhanced road corridor buffer would be adequate.

Well, the last meeting, just for reference, and I'm not saying this has to be right, we actually had a kind of Gensler designed substation facade. So mean, think we, you know, I think on the planning commission, I think we're always looking at ways to raise the bar as we get more and more of these things, and they are very intrusive in our residential neighborhoods and are impactful on people living there. So I would just kind of going down the line start to wonder about is, you know, the world has changed. The impacts of these things are more pervasive generally. And we know that in areas like this where they're hard against residential, it's really at its most vigorous.

So anyway, if we could just in the future start to think about that a little more intentionally.

Commissioner Burns?

Yes. Thank you. I just had a comment, one question you can call it. We have done 20 feet walls for this kind of places. A couple of areas that we put 20 foot wall around it where the people were living close by. So at least to three three place three sides, we had put 20 foot wall. Other side, we had put syrups or something like that before. So did you look at anything like that? Or that's all they offer, 12 foot concrete wall. Is that all they're offering?

Do you want to answer it?

12 feet is all that was offered by the applicant. I would ask the applicant submit new materials that show why they think anything different that what they would propose would be adequate screening for the uses on the south side of Arcola Mills Drive. So previously in my presentation, there was a line of sight graphic. If you can see on the far home and the daycare and then the line of sight to the bottom part of the equipment is what I would consider reasonable to ask for in terms of screening. And you can see that the proposed wall doesn't cross those line of sight lines.

Mr. Barnes, have seen a variation between walls wearing between 12 and up to 20 feet in some instances. Yeah, yeah. Thank

you. Mr. Frank?

Thank you, Chair. So I know you mentioned we're and you've got a good visual up of it right now. Topography for the Evergreen Meadows side of the south side of the site. What about the folks in the Vermont Tri section to the north? Are they higher, lower, about equal ground to the to where we're gonna see the to substation?

They're at about the same elevation as the substation. Okay. And there's, a good amount of tree conservation area. I can if you see the the green swaths

Yeah.

That are about 30 to 50 feet in height that provide good screening.

Okay.

And then they're also about a thousand feet away.

Yeah, they are they are farther. There's also a lot of bare space there. That blue spot, you know, between in the tree conservation and the risker where the creek is running, the broad run. You've got a lot of bare ground. So, I just didn't know how much you're going to see up but if they're they're on equal ground, I guess that helps a little bit. Okay. Thank you.

Mister Jasper, do you have another quick question for staff?

Just, Erin, did did you does staff ever look at berming in these cases? Because I know when we look at residential development, you know, applications, a lot of time the applicant will come in and offer to berm in order to create a better buffer even from residential development, let alone a substation. Is that something you guys have considered requesting?

I did suggest that as an option to the applicant. That was after they had already submitted their materials for public hearing.

You.

Okay. I have a couple of questions so I can clarify this in my own mind. So this good question. Question. Question.

Use there.

Correct.

So so when they're coming so this so the substation's basically a buy right use for this parcel, but it needs a commission permit. Is that why we like that there's no special exception requirement like we have now with most substations. Is that how this played out?

Correct.

This was not a feature shown when the rezoning came forward. This land bay was a bubble plan and it did not specify a a utility location. On the East Side, it did. But since it did not identify that location, that was that kicked in the need for the commission permit Okay. For the location character and extent. Got it.

Another question. In the issuance of a I think I know the answer, I'll ask anyways. In the issuance of a commission permit, I know you cannot put any conditions on it. So for example, you can say, we'll give you a permit as long as you do a gas insulated substation. We're not allowed to do that. Correct?

In this instance, I do not think that would be a requirement. I think what we've offered here is that these are features that they're already showing as part of their commission permit. And if they can enhance that specific feature, was our recommendation that was within the commission's purview to recommend. But to replan it to a gas insulated, I think that would be on the beyond the purview of the commission permit.

Okay. That's what I thought. Alright. Thank you. We'll go to the applicant for presentation. Good evening.

Just getting the tech technology here ready for a second. Well, evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Commission. My name is Gifford Hampshire. I'm with the law firm of Blankenship McKeith.

I represent NOVAC. And to my right is Jake Holmes, who's our NOVAC representative. And to his right is Matt McElhaney, who's from Urban, the civil on the project. I don't feel like I need to go laboriously through a presentation tonight, although I will

go through

it because of the really good presentation that staff made and the issues that have been pointed out by the questions from the planning commissioners. I'd like to emphasize before I go through the presentation a couple points, and that is that have already been discussed, and that is that this property is, of course, in the suburban industrial mineral extraction place type. A public utility is a core use, not just a use, but a core use in that place type. As was stated also, this is part of the land that has been rezoned in 2020 for industrial pursuant to ZMAP 2023. And as you've heard, the Black Chamber development is under development to the east.

The proposed site plan that's being processed that was discussed is for the Shreveport South Data Center development that was actually it's on land that was rezoned way back in 1993 to general industrial. So we have an area here that while it is surrounded we certainly recognize it is surrounded by residential uses. The county's planning over the course of many years has been for this property to be industrial and for public utilities to be a core use within that industrial area. Just to cut to the chase, we're going to conclude this presentation by telling you that we are okay. We certainly would be willing, in fact, to go to a work session to discuss all these issues.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn about these issues until the staff report came out last Friday. And so we thought we were in really good shape until last Friday. But we certainly recognize the concerns, we're certainly willing to address them as best we can. In fact, I will tell you that we've looked at the concept of raising the wall already. We've looked at the possibility of raising it from 12 to 15 feet, and Mr.

McElhaney tells me that that works from an engineering point of view. We haven't looked at a higher height, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't be willing to discuss it and any other issue you want to discuss at a work session. We also note that there have been no comments that we're aware of from the residential community about this application, and so we have not had to respond to any sort of concerns like that. So just to emphasize, we are in this industrial area, and the purpose of this substation is to serve the local data center load, but specifically the Shreveport South development, approved, the rezoning of which was approved back in 'ninety three. You can see here graphically the challenge that I think the commission has.

We have blue and we have other colors. We have the blue of the IP, which is kind of a peninsula, if you will, between some other areas. We have Belmont Trace excuse me, Evergreen Trace to the South and the other area to the North and the other area to the South. So we recognize this is a challenge. But the plan contemplates this very situation.

As staff said in the staff report, it has a transition paragraph on page two sixty five in Chapter two of the plan that talks about what exactly you're supposed to do in this sort of situation. That's the very issue that staff is pointing out. And we're sensitive to that issue. And that's why we've put both the enhanced road corridor buffer and the 12 foot wall in place and are willing to discuss some more ideas. This is a slide that graphically shows what I've already said. This is part of that previously approved rezoning. You can see the parcel here in lavender. Here's an aerial photograph that shows the parcel and the Black Chamber site to the east under development. I think this may have a laser pointer on it. I'm not sure.

But if you look to I'm not sure if it does not. But anyway, if you look to the east where the curve in the road is, there is a oh, here we go. We got a laser pointer here. But that doesn't work. Oh, there we go. Well, anyway, if you look to the east where the curve in the road is, that's basically where the Shreveport Center is. And there are easements in place should this commission permit be approved to serve that center. I don't need to tell you about this. This is your there was a question about whether we could put conditions. This is a very general sort of inquiry you have about whether it's generally consistent with the comprehensive plan and location character and extent.

As was discussed, this does not need a special use permit because it's grandfathered. This is a slide that shows you some of the things I'll tell you about in a minute in more detail. I've already talked about some of these, and some of these have already been mentioned in staff's analysis and presentation. We've got 1,000 feet from the Evermont Trace community to the North, two fifty feet from the community to the South. One correction I need to make is that actually the Dominion power line will be on the property, not off the property.

There's going be a new Wishing Star to Mars, they call it substation line that's going to be a transition line that's going to be located right on the property. And that serves the comprehensive plan goal of co locating utilities and reducing the need for off-site easements. We are increasing the plantings in a number of ways. First of all, we're increasing the planting from the normal road corridor 15 foot deciduous to adding 10 feet of evergreen, and we're also increasing the size of those trees at planting from a 1.5 caliber for the deciduous to two caliber, and from eight feet for the evergreen to 10 feet at the time of planting. And I'll show you in a minute how those trees are contemplated to look as they mature.

Here is a graphic that shows you the green road corridor buffer enhanced that in green. And in lavender, you see the Type C buffer to the north. Here's a slide that shows you the on-site stormwater management. The red arrows are the underground facilities that will treat the water. You see LID, that stands for low impact development techniques.

The one exception is the red arrow to the right there along Belmont is going to go off-site underground. Here's a picture of the walls, and this may be useful for the work session. This is the idea that we had for a screen wall. But keep in mind, Commissioner Jasper, that we're going to have evergreen plantings in front of that, which we hope will show you graphically in a minute that the evergreens will over time even obscure that wall. The wall is in place in the meantime.

The six foot board on board fence is for the back of the property. If you can see the can't quite see it here, but on the back of the property facing north, that would screen the 1,000 feet to the north. And then here we have a graphic showing that that 1,000 feet to the north to Evermont Trace. Here's that graphic you've already seen. And we take staff's point that the wall does not it just touches the lower line, okay?

So we understand maybe the need to increase it a little bit. But in front of it, you will see what I'm talking about in terms of the deciduous trees at 12 to 14 feet on installation and the evergreen trees behind it at 10 feet at time of installation and then they will grow. So over time and in some places, the elevation is a little bit higher there for the trees will ultimately cover up that wall. To be upfront, I think staff mentioned we already have some construction underway out there. These are proffered road improvements from the rezoning that are under construction as we speak.

To the right here, you will see the residential dwellings to the south that we're talking about in the daycare. And you'll see in a minute how they look front on. This is looking from the road improvement site towards those residential structures and the day care. You can see how these property owners have maybe wisely and proactively screened their own property with evergreens and that will also help the impact. Here's a graphic that is intended to show five years after the plantings that I've just mentioned how that wall and how the trees behind it will look.

Now we understand there's always skepticism about graphics and they look pretty and we don't know. But this is what we hope will happen if these trees grow and they're planted as and the county keeps on us to make sure that they're replaced if they die, etcetera. Here's a view from Arcola Mills Drive at fifteen to twenty years after planting, assuming the trees are healthy. And then let's see, we have another one here from Belmont Ridge. And I really struggle here to find the wall.

And maybe you can see it, but Mr. McElhaney had to point it out to me. It's over there to the right near the HVAC facilities. But you can see how the screening, if everything goes well, will obscure that wall over time. This one as well. And this is just another graph that shows you kind of the same thing. This is the view from Evermont Trace that Commissioner Frank was talking about. There

are

some bare spaces looking forward, and there's no doubt you can see the transmission poles there now. So that's our presentation, and we stand ready to answer any questions. But I'd like to close where I started by saying that we are certainly excited to go to a work session to talk some more. Given the limited notice we had that there was any kind of a problem with this, we thought we were on the way to making everybody happy here. But we're sensitive to the concerns that have been raised and would like to talk with you about them some more. Thank you.

All right, thank you. Questions for the applicants? Question Jasper.

Just I know when we recollection correct that the notice that the letters went out in late November?

Correct.

And there has been no community meeting, right?

That's right. Okay.

All right. Any other questions for the applicant? No? Okay. We'll open up the public hearing for this item. We do have one speaker signed up. That is Emily Johnson representing the Piedmont Environmental Council.

Good evening commissioners. My name is Emily Johnson on behalf of the Piedmont Environmental Council. We're back in the Arcola area with this application, a place we all know has seen undeniable tension between different development patterns. That makes decisions here even more important to do right by residents who may feel overlooked, to not duplicate negative outcomes, and to thoughtfully layout transitions. Like staff, we feel this application doesn't go far enough in that regard.

The substation's character and extent are misaligned with its residential neighbors and not properly mitigated. We know this is a land use consistent with the parcels rezoning from 2022 and its place type, and we understand its context in relation to nearby load demand. But we also know it still comes before you to make sure it is site appropriate. And in this case, there are homes next door designated as suburban in the comprehensive plan. So we're asking you to perform a site specific assessment and also consider the piecemeal domino nature in which requests are being made of you.

It seems that Stack Infrastructure bought this property in February for a 120,000,000. With that amount of money in the land alone, we can consider the owner able to accommodate a more appropriate substation such as a GIS substation, which was dismissed by the applicant with very little comment. And at the very least, they can accommodate better screening. There's more than a 60 foot height differential between the 75 foot towers on the substation and the 12 foot screening wall, and the residences are located uphill another four and a half feet or so. It's going to stand out and further industrialize this neighborhood.

Stack wants the substation here specifically because under the same LLC for a Northern Virginia campus nine, they own property to the east just across Belmont Ridge Road. You can see a map of STACK infrastructure's plans for that site on their website, which shows two data centers along Evergreen Mills Road and under site plan 20230029. It's an active but grandfathered application and contains no substation. This is unlike the Amazon property to the south, an application submitted a year earlier as STMP twenty twenty two zero zero one eight to include a substation with its data centers in alignment with the rezoning of this area. Applicants should be coming before the county with more transparency and more upfront assessment of their needs.

If they need a substation, they should say so. Additionally, the applicant is tightly fitting their substation into a corner of this property that staff calls, quote, too close to the adjacent residential and commercial uses, end quote. Why? Because there are constraining factors on this site that should give us pause. It has an archaeological site of which an undisturbed portion is NRHP eligible. It's mostly flood plain with some steep slope, and it's got extensive tree conservation areas proffered with its rezoning. This is not a great site for a substation, and it's certainly not appropriate as proposed. Thank you.

Alright. Thank you. That was the only speaker we had signed up. Hey folks, in general, please please hold applause because we have a lot of comments coming later. We'll be here till 3AM. So really if you wanna show your support, wave your hands or something, but please hold off on any applause. That was the only speaker we had signed up. Is there anybody else in the room that would like to speak to this application? No? Okay. We have nobody signed up online, so we'll close the public hearing. Staff of the applicant have any response to the comments?

Just briefly, I'd just like to repeat both what I said and also what staff said, that is we've worked very, very diligently to stay out of the environmentally sensitive area. The risk are in the riparian buffer, you'll see that. The only intrusions into that buffer are the stormwater management facilities that were specifically allowed in the rezoning, and that we understand the concern about the houses next door as I said in my presentation and we thought we had accommodated that concern but if we have more work to do, we'd love to talk with staff and commissioners about what other ideas they might have. We're not adverse to increasing the height of the wall, and we'd be willing to talk about that.

All right. Thank you. All right. This application is in the Little River District. I'll go to Commissioner Jasper for a motion.

Microphone.

Thank you all. I'm glad to hear that you're willing to go to a work session. I am genuinely concerned about the screening of this from the residential neighborhoods. I have seen it's funny, you know, we've seen Pantovich and a number of other applications, and everybody zooms in on the industrial piece parcels that they're looking at. And then luckily, I saw one of your slides showed it zoomed out, and you could see all of the residential around it.

In this particular case, on this site, and it may be unfortunate I'm sorry. Oh yes, Thank you. So yeah, there's a ton of residential around it. And it will appear an additional substation here will affect everyone who goes by this on a regular basis. And And then if somebody's operating the slides, I'd like to just show the site again with the adjacent residential on the south side.

Thank you. That one's fine. If you go back to one more back. Not a it was a diagrammatic. It wasn't a photo.

That one. So here's the challenge that you are facing from my perspective. And you've talked about the plan saying it's okay to have this use adjacent to residential as long as there's appropriate transition setbacks, whatever. Staff identified that in their analysis as well. In this case, because of the nature of this site, you have the risker, the steep slopes, other things that make require you to be hard next to these residential uses.

So the quality of the screening is really critical, because you are just towering over, adjacent residential uses. So for that reason, I'm gonna recommend that we go to work session on this and or move that we go to work session on it.

Okay. Do you wanna go through the formal draft motion or

move that we go we okay. Wait. I move that the Planning Commission forward Legi2024Dash0059 Novak Demo Substation CMPT 2024Dash0010 to work session based on the following findings.

Do I

have to have findings for Okay. No findings.

There a second? Second. Motion made to send to work session by commissioner Jasper, seconded by commissioner Combs. Commissioner Jasper, I'll assume that was your opening.

It was.

Any other comments or discussion on this? And if anything you'd like to see discussed at work session other than what we've already discussed, please bring it up. Vice Chair Miller.

So I just have one general comment for how we plan and we zone and we make decisions. Evermont Trace neighborhood to the north of this has come up several times. It's about twelve years ago in the 2012 board term that that development came up for a vote. And it was a five-four vote in favor. And the four that were opposed, the primary concern they had was that that neighborhood is directly at the end of the run runway.

You draw a line out from the runway and it goes right over that neighborhood. And it was still approved at the objection of four board members. And then we fast forward to today and we're talking about do we want to put a substation or do we want to however the commission permit to allow a substation to be built in proximity to that housing development that some thought, do you really want to put houses right underneath the runway. And I bring that up just to note that over the last fourteen years, things have changed, thirteen or whatever it is, things change, things constantly change. It's difficult to look forward into the future, but sometimes you have to and wonder, if we do this, what's the next thing that's going to come from it?

And so it's just an interesting case here that a neighborhood that half the board at the time thought should not have been built is now a contentious point for why it should not have been built because it's affecting industrial that was otherwise always going to be in this site near it. So just an interesting positive to think about how that the things we make a decision on today, we're going to actually have to deal with long after all of us are no longer seeing where we are. So that's all.

Mr. Panerati? Yes. When when we're talking about the screening, I just want to talk to the staff to see. I would like you guys to look into not just the walls, but any kind of a bombing that we can do and anything else that we can think of, that will screen this thing better. So thank you.

Commissioner Combs.

Thank you, mister chair. I also, at work session, don't want to drop the GIS conversation. I understand you all have been running site plan concurrently with the rezoning, and that's a risk, right? If you don't get the rezoning, you've got that site plan out there. And I understand if you go by way of GIS, you probably need to redo your site plan. But that is something that the Planning Commission I think is keen on. We've seen that with other applications. And I know it's been mentioned here, but I feel like it's been a bit brushed under the rug. I'd like to reinvigorate that conversation as it comes to work session.

All right. Thank you. Commissioner Frank.

I'll concur with everything my colleagues have already said as far as, anything we can do to improve the buffering and, reduce the impact. And obviously, folks to the South are the closest. I'm going to see more of the character and extent kind of mitigation that's I think is needed and still missing. I'm also curious if staff something was mentioned and I just I I picked up on it farther down in our discussion tonight about the the two buildings on the East Side. Was there in either of those two plans originally a substation since there were other uses that were carved out of here but not a substation use.

Was was there supposed to be a substation to the east at

some point? And if you

don't know now, we can talk about it later.

There is a substation plan for the east side of the road directly adjacent to where the substation equipment is.

The East Side Of Belmont Ridge.

Correct. Yeah. There's a. Okay. Four data center buildings on that site and just north of it, there's two data center buildings planned.

For the Brambleton portion?

Brambleton Brambleton size. Okay. The four buildings. Oh, I'm sorry. They both have Brambleton in the title.

Yeah. Okay. I know what you mean. This this skinnier northern wavy part, I think, is what I was just curious. So we're talking about two substations down there on either side of the road to support those six. Okay. Alright. I just didn't know if something changed, and had some things carved out and not others. So I'm just curious. Thank you for clarifying that.

Again, I agree with everybody else. I think we need to talk about GIS possibilities and more extensive buffering where we can. Even in that flat ground area the on the rear side, I mean, my goodness, we take out trees left and right these days. So, I understand it's a thousand feet but if there's anything we can do to replant and I don't want to obviously, we're talking about a risker and there's issues with what we put where there but anything we can do to, you know, put a green back is I think always a good thing on these plans. So thank you.

Okay. Any other comments? No? Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Opposed? That motion will carry nine zero. Thank you very much. Staff, I'm assuming you're comfortable with the information moving forward working with the applicant before you come back to work session.

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Alright. Our next and last application this evening is Ledgy twenty twenty four dash 12 happy paws canine, special exception twenty twenty four dash twenty one and special exception twenty twenty four dash twenty four.

Ready when you are. Good evening, planning commissioners. My name is Diana Anthbaum with the Department of Planning and Zoning and I'm here to present Legend twenty twenty four zero zero twelve for Happy Paws K nine. The subject property is a three acre parcel in Leesburg in the rural North Place type in the AR 1 zoning district. The property is currently developed with a single family residential home.

The application proposes a special exception to permit a dog kennel within a residential home for up to 35 dogs in the AR 1 zoning district and a minor special exception to reduce the 100 foot setback from three property lines. The dog kennel is currently operating out of the residential home and this application before you this evening proposes to bring the kennel into compliance with the zoning ordinance. The kennel proposes operating seven days a week, offering daycare and overnight boarding services. There are two clarifications I'd like to provide regarding the staff report. The staff report references a height of three feet for the secondary fence proposed.

It is actually proposed at four feet tall for the secondary fence. In addition, the staff report states that the application proposes a maximum of 35 dogs inclusive of personal pets. I've clarified with the applicant and the applicant is proposing 35 dogs exclusive of personal pets. The kennel comprises of two components, an interior space co located within the existing 3,166 square foot residential building on the property which is outlined on the screen in orange and a 33,839 square foot outdoor dog play area at the rear of the property outlined in pink. There is an existing six foot tall wood fence that encloses the rear yard and sits on the property line, which is outlined on the screen in red.

The application proposes to relocate a portion of the fence along Oak Bucket Lane and install a four foot tall secondary fence which is outlined here in dark blue within the outdoor dog play area to protect the existing vegetation which is shown shaded in green. Staff has identified two outstanding issues. Generally, kennels are considered a rural business and can be supported in the RPA, but the plan notes that these uses must be compatible in scale, use, and intensity. The subject property is surrounded by residential uses and at the proposed intensity, compounded with a request to reduce the setback, poses a compatibility concern with the existing residential uses. Approval of this application would allow up to 35 dogs co located in the existing residential home and adjacent to neighboring residences.

Due to the size of the property at the proposed intensity, staff has concerns that there are limited methods to mitigate impacts of noise and the scale of 35 dogs on this property. Staff recommends reducing the maximum permitted number of dogs and request guidance from the Planning Commission on what would be more appropriate. Staff has examined past kennel applications in the rural policy area over the last twenty five years to better understand how this application compares. The full comparison table is provided as attachment three of the staff report. Applications that were approved are shaded in green.

Applications that were denied are shaded in red. And outlined in orange is this application that's before you this evening. Generally, applications that have proposed a higher maximum number of animals were approved on properties with more acreage and have met the 100 foot setback. Past kennel applications have proposed a range of dogs from as low as 15 and as high as a 160 on properties as small as two acres and as large as 130 acres. So, taking a closer look at the data, staff focused on examining past approvals that are 50 acres or less and approved for animals or less.

Staff has calculated on average or excuse me, staff has calculated an average to see how Happy Paws compares to past approvals with similarities to this application. The zoning ordinance calls for a 100 foot setback from all property lines which is a use specific standard for kennels. The reduction of the setback on three property lines adjacent to residential uses further poses compatibility concerns. The modification would allow the kennel to operate as close as 20 feet from the property line and 64 feet from the nearest residence. The reduction of the setback results in limited separation between the kennel use and the neighboring residential uses.

Staff recommends that the applicant provide additional setback to increase the distance between the kennel use and the residential property to the east specifically. Here's an image of the proposed modified setback in comparison to the 100 foot setback if met. The existing residence is outlined in orange. The 100 foot setback if met is outlined in red and the modified 20 foot setback is in dark green and the modified 35 setback is in light blue. The property boundary is in the darker blue.

Staff recommends conditions of approval pertaining to the operation and handling of the proposed kennel and the environmental mitigation measures. The proposed conditions are recommended to mitigate some of the impacts associated with the kennel use, though as noted, staff continues to have concerns with the proposed scale of the overall operation. At the Planning Commission briefing, there were questions on how many dogs are permitted on a property by right, a breakdown of the public comment received by staff, and generally on best practices on how dog kennels are managed in the county. Four dogs are permitted on a property by right. To date, we've received a total of 110 public comments via Email.

89 of the Emails were from current clients of the business. 21 of the comments were from neighbors, out of which 14 were opposed and seven were in support. Of the seven neighbors that were in support, four are also clients. In terms of best practices on how dog kennels are managed, staff has provided a list of conditions that can assist in the mitigation of some impacts. Outside of that, staff would defer to the applicant as the county does not regulate best practices on how a kennel should be operated.

At this time, staff cannot support a commission recommendation to the board. Staff recommends that the commission forward the application to a future work session to address the outstanding issues. And at this time, I'll turn it over to the Planning Commission for discussion. I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any.

Alright. Thank you. Questions for staff? Commissioner Myers.

It was an excellent presentation, and I appreciate you all meeting with me earlier also. I've gone back and done a lot of research in kennels and stuff from the Flintstone days forward. I can't say where I've seen where we've actually had an application where the keeping of the animal is also also in the keeping of the house where the people are living. Every application I've seen, there's been a separation. You know, there is a whether we wanna call it a shed, you know, an out shed or whatever you wanna call it, there's a separation of space between the actual living space and the actual kenneling of dogs. Would you say that's what is that kind of what you've guys seen in any in like the research you've done and stuff?

Based off the research conducted by staff, I would say that there is one other kennel application that has been approved. Happy Hounds Lodge located in Purcellville. That kennel was co located within a residential home as well.

And did it have where literally almost every room of the house was also being used as a kennel?

Yeah. I'm not sure about the specifics to that. I have not seen the interior of that kennel or residential space, so I I'm not sure.

Because one of the things I think to me that I'm graveling with is when you talk about the word scale, I mean, this is supposed to be an accessory use to a primary use. I mean, the the zoning is not for a commercial use. In this one, it seems like the commercial is gonna become the primary use and the living in the house is becoming the accessory use. So to me, it looks like the scale of the facility that's being used is also out of scale with the zoning that underlays it. Does that I mean, is there anything where we've looked at is like if if the house is three if if the if the structure is 3,000 square feet and 75 of that space is being used as commercial, do we look at that that's out of scale?

I think we would acknowledge that this is unusual, that we have not seen it before. I think when we looked at the we were asked this question about a live work unit and would this meet that definition and what AR one district allows two principal uses. So you're right the president has not been to have these two co located but the ordinance does allow them to be co low does allow two principal uses at the same time on the same lot. It doesn't specify that they have to separate structures. So it's been at the election of the owner to to co locate the two.

But so you're saying that a commercial entity use can be larger than the other primary use.

Correct. They're gonna be two principal uses on the property and one is not one does not require one to be less or more than the other. As long as they meet the zoning requirements, setbacks, any square footage limitations, any FRR limitations. But they can

be literally in the same space.

Correct.

There's not a separation space at all.

In this case, correct. And every almost every room of the facility is is living space and the kennel space. Okay. So

then under this idea that it's 35 dogs excluding personal pets, for animal control to be here, not you all, is, I know in the past because it's through the court of art ordinance and they're actually deputized or whatever you wanna call it, the animal control gets involved when there's an overcrowding issue with domesticated animals. And and my question would have been to them, and I'd like to still get that answered at some point is, why were they not involved when you got to the point that you had forty forty whatever it is animals? Obviously, there's an overcrowding going on in the facility. I only bring this up because and I passed this on to some other planning commissioners. Years ago, I did a project where I helped in Sterling through Christmas in April, and we went in rehabbed a house where an elderly person had had too many cats in there and animal control that came and taken them away.

And then we went in and we rehabbed the house and stuff for her. And so, you know, it was a it was a it was a an approach done by them that was legally allowed by them. And so, you know, it's overcrowding. It's just not humans that are overcrowding, but it's definitely overcrowding. So I I I don't want zoning to answer it tonight. I want to hear from the animal control people that go by the codified ordinance. I know they pick animals up. I know they do it. I know they still do it. I see the trucks. I see people complain about their animals, and I see them come by and get them. So I'd like to know why and at what point they weren't involved as part of this. Whether whether we do but whatever we do at the end of the day, I'd still like to have that that question answered.

Okay. We can definitely look into

that further. Commissioner Barnes?

Yes. Thank you. I just wanted to say to staff, I'm looking at an aerial photograph right now and I see the houses are all around. Some of them are very close. Right?

In the back there is a house maybe a couple 100 feet in the back. The house is on each side. In the front, they're all around the home. And I don't know how they can have 35 dogs or 40 dogs that close to the other homes and noise and barking and, you know, it's it just doesn't look right to me. Anyway, we'll hear the applicant, see what they have to say, but I'm just looking at this. It just don't make sense to me. Anyway, somebody will make sense for me.

Okay. Commissioner Matarati?

Thank you, mister chair. So just question for the staff is, when you look at these applications, know before the build, obviously, we look at what's going to happen in there. But now this is an existing facility already there in place. Some of those commissioner Miles said, animal welfare or the health department. Do these departments have a input in this application so far?

Do they have anything to say at this point? Like, what's happening there? Is it, like, a good or bad? Do you guys consider this part of this package when you guys put this together?

Yes. So that's a great question. All of those agencies are part of the review process for the Ledgy application. Animal Services was included as a referral agent in the application. They did not have any outstanding issues.

When Animal Services reviews kennel applications specifically, they are reviewing their case files for if there's if they have received any complaints regarding neglect or abuse or anything like that and from my understanding, they did not have any comments on this application and they have responded to complaints at this address but the complaints were unsubstantiated. Regarding the health department, yes, the health department was also part of the review process for this application. We do have a representative from the county health department here with us this evening to answer any specific questions, but generally the health department comments were related to the permitting process at site plan.

I'm curious, like Commissioner Meyer said, you you know the facilities run well. I did a site visit, so I can tell they are well taken care of. But the thing is, we got to consider what are the worst case scenarios, like overcrowding that kind of stuff. I don't think I I I like like commissioner Maher said, I would like to talk animal control to see how do they assess these things. Because having a 40 dogs for all these years, I don't see them having no comments, Kind of bothers me what exactly they're evaluating. So anyway, thank you. That was just my comment.

Okay. Commissioner Jasper.

Thank you.

You know, Diana, know, first of all, thank you. And I thank you for going through and looking at similar, you know, other kennel applications. I won't call them similar, but other kennel applications. You may recall that when we met and commissioner Myers and the head of zoning enforcement was there, one of the questions that I asked was what do other jurisdictions do? How do you know, what are any recommended guidelines from professional associations from the US Department of Agriculture, from the ASPCA, whatever.

I don't see any of that research in the staff report. I did some of it on my own, but have you also done that research and have a kind of an analysis of typical approach to kennels, commercial kennels in residential neighborhoods?

So we as staff did not have the opportunity to do that research but that's something I'd be happy to look further into. I'm not sure if the applicant might have any responses on general best practices for kennels since they are the operators of the kennel. Again, the county does not get involved in the actual operation of a kennel, but that's something that we can look further into for sure.

So I would note one thing in response, which is going to the comments of commissioner Myers and Moderetti. I I think they're going to the question of what is safe for the animals and the humans and the neighbors, etcetera. And from my research, it appears that most jurisdictions have a licensing entity that does inspections and pop inspections and things like that and do have criteria. For example, in New York, you are not able to have a commercial kennel if you're not on public sewer and water. So there are practices out there that are known, and just looking at what we've done in the past is perhaps not the most informative.

I would also say that when I look at this table that you've put together, and I'm sure it was a good bit of work to do it, I think it's very hard to understand the context of these numbers because most kennels have kennel runs. And so when I look at and when it says outdoor pen size, my guess is a number of these applications, they had restricted pens that met all setback requirements on their properties. And then the dogs were in those restricted pens, which is more common than this particular particular setup setup where where the dogs run all over a residential property. So I'm not sure that this actually tells us anything without a ton more context about these approvals.

Commissioner Banks. Staff, I had

just one question. You discussed the review by animal control, and you said that animal control looked at past complaints. And this really connects with the comments of commissioner Myers and commissioner Moderetti. Do you know of any other review criteria that animal control applied during their review?

No. I do not. But I'm happy to look further into that.

There there was a complaint of animal cruelty at the facility. They did go out and inspect the facility and and determined that it was an unfounded claim and and closed out the case and there's been no further reports or complaints of animal cruelty. So the humane more of a humane aspect, overcrowding or some other if there's it's a complaint based system. So in this case, the one that was filed, they did inspect it, determined it was unfounded There have been no other complaints. Should this be approved or continue to operate, same sort of philosophy would apply if it's complaint based or there's another cause to go out and inspect, then they would determine whatever corrective actions are needed.

I guess my question was really, designed to connect with, commissioner Jasper's questions and comments, and and that is, what other review criteria were used or should have been used, rather than simply looking at complaints alone. But I understand that you can't really answer that there were.

Like performance standards or something like that? Yeah. We could try to get that information. Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

I have a quick one.

Quick one? Yeah. All right. Go ahead.

How many how many dogs do they have at the facility right now? Do you know?

I will defer to the applicant for that.

But did they didn't tell you how many dogs they have?

So based on my conversations with the applicant, they have capacity for up to 40. But typically on an average day, they house they daycare and house up to 25 is

their average.

How many do they have there now?

Again, I defer to the applicant, but they're not in their head, yes.

When they make their presentation, we'll ask them to answer.

Okay. I got it.

Commissioner Myers, you have a follow-up.

I just wanted to add real quickly, and this was brought up in our meeting. I think it's really important because it goes to a comment and a question you had. When we said in that, excuse me, that meeting, I asked the question because I walked in, if you remember, with the stack of all of the emails that, honestly, I had read every one of them and said, you know, I wanna know how we're you know, because you had the person from zoning that supposedly deals with these complaints. And I said, we wanna know what's happening to these. We were told at that meeting, if you remember, they don't they don't those those emails and those complaints were not shared with them because it had moved from being a zoning enforcement issue to be in a legislative act.

So when we sat there in that meeting, the person that was in charge of us told us that he'd only had two complaints the entire time he was doing his referral because those were the two complaints that had come to him before this process started. And then once this process started, even though these were public emails coming in, those emails did not go to him. So I think it's a little bit of an unfair assumption when we say that there wasn't a lot of unhappiness or a lot of concern with what was going on because for whatever reason, we had created a noncommunication between the two entities. And I know that commissioner Jasper and I both at that meeting said, we think this is a huge mistake, and we wanna make sure that all of this information gets shared because you're sitting here telling me there's two complaints, and I'm sitting here looking at over a 100 emails. There's obviously more than two.

So I do think we kinda need to take a grain of salt with only two people. And I'm not criticizing anybody, please. I'm just saying that was the that was the response we got when I asked the question in the meeting. And I think it's important for the record.

Mister Frank?

Yes. Thank you. Sorry. Was just looking at some things on parcel maps, some county map stuff that I have. The parcel on Oak Bucket that I'm gonna say is kinda to the rear of of the subject property, future.

Of And about future. And have of questions the way the lot is shaped, why it's situated where it is. But it's it's pretty close to that big wood fence that's there today. Yeah. Do you know how close they are to that shared property line?

Because that's really that's the open area with the dogs, that pink area. So

Yes. So currently from the property line, it is 44 feet.

So with the 20 foot they're asking for, it's 64 feet.

Yes, ma'am. Okay.

Alright. And I was trying to tell and it looks like that that particular property has changed hands amongst family over the years, the one to the back. So I was just trying to figure out when it was actually the house was built and because it I can't quite tell, but it I'm guessing not in the last couple of years. To I'm the next slide. You know. All right, okay. Thank you.

Right, two things. Diana, what I may ask you about when I went through your appendix three and it shows all the different approvals. And the one that caught my eye was the only one it did not meet the setback. They had a setback modified to the north and west from a 100 feet to zero feet and that application was approved. That's the howl of a good time. Were you able to find out any more information about that one? I couldn't find out where it is or how why it was approved with the zero setback.

Yes. So this is a two point five two point zero acre property located off of Harmony Church Road. It was approved by the board of supervisors in June 2012. The application proposed a kennel for 16 dogs and it was approved for 16. They did request the setback modification of 100 feet to zero at the north and the west. So, up here and up here. Which which parcel would be west of you? Oh, I apologize. This is property. So residents here, Kennel Building here.

Yes, ma'am. It is a separate kennel building with the fences. And so when this application came in, it did come in in response to a zoning violation, and so the special exception application was to bring the kennel into compliance with the zoning ordinance, and so the property owner and operator of the kennel business requested reduction of the setback from a 100 to zero to accommodate the existing fence that was already on the property. When it went to the Planning Commission, staff had recommended that the applicant increase the setback to from zero to 50 and at least provide provide that. It went through extensive discussion with the Planning Commission.

The Planning Commission did decide to send it to the board with a recommendation of approval with a condition to increase the setback to 25 feet. Then when it went to the board level, the board actually decided that they wanted to accept the setback modification to zero with the reasoning that the fence and the dog pens were already established for the business. I will note that this was approved in 2012. The business did shut down late twenty seventeen.

Okay. Thank you. And the other the other question I had was, I believe, community planning made of 30 dogs for this. Do you know how they came to that number?

Yes. So community planning did recommend that the applicant reduce the maximum number of dogs from at that time it was it was they were requesting 40. Community planning recommended 30. There wasn't an exact science or math to how they got to 30. At that time, 40 felt like too much. There were concerns with the intensity and scale, so staff recommended 30 at that time.

Okay. Alright. Alright. Thank you. Does the applicant have a presentation?

Good evening, Chair Keirce, Vice Chair Miller, and members of the Planning Commission. My name Anna Ritter,

and I'm a

land use attorney with Walsh, Clucci, Lubeli, and Walsh here in Leesburg. And we are serving as the applicant representatives for the Happy Paws k nine special exception application before you tonight. I also have with me tonight Marcel and Beatrice Utenberg who are owners of Happy Balls K nine LLC, which is serving as the applicant and other members of our development team are also present and happy to hear your feedback and answer questions after the presentation. Before I jump into things, I do wanna follow-up on staff's recommendation, and and we welcome your feedback related to intensity of the use and the setbacks. We are very willing to work on those issues and we are happy to go to a work session to continue, evaluating those concerns as well.

So I'll skip over this briefly since Diana did a great job. The property that is the subject of this application is a three acre parcel zoned to the AR 1 zoning district and designated as the rural North Place type under the general plan. It is located in a primarily wooded rural neighborhood, and the applicant resides on the property with their family. The applicants initially began their operation with less than four dogs, which at that time did not require special exception. And later due to the increase of clients served, they became aware that they needed a special exception and they commenced this application at that time.

So the special exception request before you tonight is to establish a kennel use on the property or to bring the existing use in line with the zoning ordinance. Since our most recent submission materials requesting a maximum capacity of 35 dogs, we have reduced that in line with community planning's latest recommendation that you heard, and we are committing to a maximum capacity of 30 dogs. The kennel use includes a backyard play area of approximately 33,839 square feet, as well as an indoor component within the applicant's home. And I know there are some questions about that, and I believe our applicant is happy to answer some of those as well. The applicant also seeks approval for a minor special exception request to modify the use setbacks.

This request would reduce the setback to align with the buffers and yards around the back of the property. The 100 foot use setback along the front of the property would remain and I have some more information on that at a later slide. We are not requesting any modification to the vegetative buffers and buffer plantings will be evaluated and brought to standard at the site plan stage should we receive approval. I would also like to note that the applicant has voluntarily proposed a condition of approval that would waive the right to have any specs approval granted on this application to the applicant's pursue further. The applicant has committed to have maximum of 15 dogs outside.

When outside, the dogs go inside the back backyard play area which you can see here on your screen outlined in yellow. The dogs are rotated in small groups through the three enclosures within the backyard play area. The backyard play area is fully enclosed within an existing six foot tall wood panel fence. No dogs are outside of that. The as Diana noted, the, fence runs along the property line, and we're proposing that fence to remain where it is except along Oak Bucket Lane, which is at the bottom of the screen here.

We would bump that fence back to accommodate the AR one front yard, which extends off of Oak Bucket Lane. The dogs have two outdoor playtime windows when they're outside. The morning window lasts from 8AM to 12PM. At 12PM, all of the dogs go inside for an afternoon break, and then there is an afternoon playtime window from 3PM to 6PM. And when outside, caretakers provide constant supervision of the dogs, and, the caretakers and Beatrice also provide obedience training throughout the day.

Daycare clients begin picking up their dogs as early as 3PM. So by the time evening comes around, it is typically only boarding clients that remain on the property. Nighttime hours from 9PM to 7AM and no dogs are outside during this time except up to two dogs for bathroom breaks if necessary. And all of these commitments are incorporated into the proposed conditions of approval. This slide shows the southern enclosure on the property.

You can see the existing, perimeter wood panel fence in the back here. And what you see at the front is the existing four foot fence which separates the enclosures. This is the middle enclosure, and I call your attention to the check-in area which provides intentionally provides a, controlled area for clients to pick up and drop off their pets. This is the main backyard enclosure within the play area. And I'd like to call your attention to the wood chips on the ground.

The wood chips provide a substrate barrier, between dog waste and the soil, and those wood chips are picked up with waste, and new wood spot in the moment, and they also complete a full sweep at the end of the day to pick up anything that might have been missed. A private disposal company picks up waste from the property twice a week. So there is no waste that is permanently stored or disposed of on the property. Similarly, no waste enters the septic system. There's no waste flushed through the toilets.

And then there's also no washing or grooming that is either a part of this application or that is currently occurring on the property. I wanted to provide some more context with this side for the use setbacks. Dana did do a great job, so I will move through this briefly. What you can see on the screen are the vegetative buffers, which we're not proposing modifications to. Along the northern and eastern sides of the property, which is the top and back of the property, the zoning ordinance requires a type 20 foot type b buffer.

Along the two roads, a 10 foot road corridor buffer is required. And then you'll also see that AR one front yard extending off the two roads into the property. So our request to allow the use of the existing backyard play area is to accommodate those three backsides of the property with a modified u setback which would come into line with the buffers, and the front u setback is to remain as it is. In response to some questions we received, we are happy to commit to a condition that no new dog related structures are constructed within the, setback reduced area. That was never the intention, but again, we're happy to memorialize that commitment if it's helpful.

So this shows you the existing wood panel fence along the perimeter of the property and the area that would be the buffers. Type b buffers, this is the back of the property. So this is where the tight 20 foot type b buffer would be. Working with staff to exclude the dogs from this area while at the same time accommodating the existing trees on-site because fence into the property would require quite a few trees being lost. We have proposed the four foot tall secondary fence.

This is flexible enough to accommodate the trees, but it is intentionally used, to contain the pets. Additionally, the existing vegetation you see would be incorporated into the buffers. But again, we do anticipate that additional plantings, may be required at the site plan stage. So, just for context. I do wanna touch on noise.

Noise is controlled through several mechanisms. First, the applicants use a rigorous intake evaluation. Potential clients are scheduled for a one on one visit with the family pets when no other client's pets are present. New dogs are evaluated for their behavior, aggressiveness, and excessive or loud barking. Similarly, outdoor playtime windows are limited as we've discussed, and there are no dogs outside during nighttime hours from 9PM to 7AM.

The visual separation between the enclosures also provides reduction in activity and barking from multiple dogs seeing each other. And then the mature trees and vegetation on-site combined with the wood panel fence do provide some noise absorption as well. We are also, as the conditions are currently drafted, we're committing to that should sound levels exceed the zoning ordinance limit, we will pursue acoustical treatment and our additional buffer method, measures to bring that in line with the zoning ordinance. Just briefly, I'll touch on traffic. The trip generation completed by Grove Slade projects 80 trips a day.

Day care drop offs are intentionally staggered from approximately 7AM to 10AM, and then pickups are also staggered from approximately 3PM to 7PM. Additionally, boarding clients drop off once at the beginning and once pick up once at the end of their stay, so they don't contribute to traffic in the same way that declare clients do on a daily basis. The applicant has also agreed to install a stop sign or similar measures at the end of the driveway responding to some current concerns about speeding. And this concludes my presentation. Again, I do wanna note that we are very open to your feedback and discussing other things that we might be able to do on-site.

And with that, I'll close. Thank you very much for your time and consideration tonight. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Questions for the applicants? Vice Chair Miller.

Thank you. Inside the property, this was built as a residential establishment with a residential home with the requisite utilities and appliances, most notably HVAC system. The HVAC system in this house, is it a standard residential HVAC system or is it one that is commercial grade that provides 100% clean air and things of that nature that other commercial doggy day care systems have been required to have in their buildings?

I believe that it's a standard system but they are using supplementary air filters in each of the rooms as well.

Okay. Is there, is it, if a building code required it for other uses, should be asking this, can the applicant

you ask and I don't mean to interrupt. I'm so sorry, Commissioner Miller. Vice Chair Miller, apologies. If you're asking whether we are open to discussions about HVAC improvements, I think the answer to that is yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Commissioner Barnes? Yeah.

I have a question. How many dogs do you have at present?

So the property can handle a maximum capacity of 40 dogs, which is what our original request I

didn't ask that question. I'm asking how many dogs do they have now?

It changes on a day to day basis.

But what is the

They have

Maximum they have.

40 is the maximum.

But they're already operating with 40 dogs already.

No. No.

Please don't speak from the audience. Thank you.

So 40

dogs already to have operating. Is that what you're saying?

Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes, although with updated materials, we're proposing a maximum of 30. So

You're gonna take get her other 10 docs?

Yeah. Yeah. That that that's what that would mean, yes, is that they they reduce their capacity. That may mean letting certain clients go that they have been utilizing previously. Now? They have had 40 in the past. I don't know how many dogs were present on the the property today. I know Marsha Marcel would yeah. Go ahead.

You don't know how many dogs you

got there now? Today we had a total of 27 dogs combining day care and boarding. In boarding tonight we have four dogs.

Do you have a permit to do that?

That's what we're here for tonight.

Yeah. But they've been operating without permit.

Yes. As as most kennel cases come in.

Mister Myers.

Do you have or you've done any already noise testing so that you can that you can tell us that you're already below the 55 dBAs at the property line when you have all the dogs out and running?

We have not done noise study at this time.

We're we're we're happy to We're open to doing that.

Yeah. Because, I mean, I've learned a lot about this while saving on the serving on the western loud and thing when we got into bed and breakfasts. And one of the things that we learned is that a 55 dBA is actually nothing more than a mid conversation at the property line. It's not as loud as people think. And with all due respect, and I'm not getting into any characters of any people, but some of the videos I've seen with people being across the street and the barking that I can hear, I mean, that's a lot louder than just an average conversation going on.

So my concern is that you've already you're already exceeding that when you've got all those dogs out there right now. I mean, whether it's if you've got 26 dogs outside in that confined area, I doubt that you're below a 55 DBA at the property line, but that's something I would definitely expect you all to do between this public hearing and the board's public hearing no matter what happens with us, our press, our votes or decisions or whatever. Secondly, you're saying now it's a maximum of 30 dogs, so that does that maximum 30 dogs also include the pets they owners excluding the pets they own?

We've requested that it's exclusive of family pets,

so it's not 30, it's 34.

It would be a maximum capacity for the kennel use for 30, but total dogs, it would be a maximum of 34 with family pets. Yeah.

Okay. So we're really at 34 pets, and then you're gonna have to prove that you only have four there that are yours. Where is the well on this property?

It's my understanding that the well is not currently in use.

Yeah. The well is not currently used. You've got you've got complete public water?

Yes. Yeah.

Okay. And the suit and the and the drain field?

The drain fill is in

is in the front yard of the property. And so

there is and your reserve drain fill is?

Do you know do you

have over some You don't have to have one.

I I don't have that information now. I'm happy to get that for you.

Okay. Because it would be important to know is are the dogs running over your proposed drain your proposed reserve drain fill or not because you're not supposed to have any uses that are going over reserve drain fills.

Sure. We can find that information.

Okay. We don't have And then another concern I would have is you could still own the property, not live there, and have this business going on because what you're saying is you're willing to restrict it to ownership. Know, I can own 10 properties and live in one of them. You know? So just because you own it doesn't mean you're and you could you could be saying that you're it's under an LLC you create.

So I would rather see if this has any fathom of going forward, I would rather see that this has a time limit on it. In the old days, we used to do special exceptions all the time with five year, ten year time limits. And then they came back for review to see if things had changed and if they were still appropriate or not. To me, I would say this is one of those that instead of it be based on an ownership I'm not saying what's gonna happen, but I'm just saying to me, I think it should be based more on time than it should be based on who owns the property.

We're we're happy to consider that. I do just wanna note that is ownership or occupancy as we have discussed with staff. So I do hear that concern and I think a time limit is something we're happy to discuss more. Thank you.

Mister Banks. You have indicated that the wood chips are used outside as a substrate for barrier and that it gets picked up. What's the cycle under which that gets picked up? Weekly, monthly, how often?

So when dogs defecate, the caretakers have the doggy bags with them and they pick it up on the spot and

they pick up any of the

wood chips just like you might pick up, like, if your dog, poops on the side of a trail, you grab the leaves with it. They pick up the wood chips with the waste right there in the moment, and then they they spot clean. Well, I'm sorry. Not spot clean, but they spot replace the wood chips as necessary.

Okay. Yeah. The commissioner Banks, if one of your questions is also how often is the waste, hauled from the site? It's, twice a week in addition. Yeah.

Commissioner Frank.

We kind of talked a little bit about it earlier, but I was curious how many of the pets are overnight versus day. It sounds like right now there's four out of 27 roughly. So is that typically the breakdown? There's there's a handful overnight versus the day folks?

I think I can answer that. It varies, throughout the year. For example, when we have holidays, we have way more dogs boarding versus day care. When schools are back, we have more daycare. So it's always a combination between daycare and boarding, and it fluctuates throughout the year.

Do you ever have a maximum number that are boarded overnight?

Typically, have a maximum of 30 boarding overnight.

Okay. And then just because I'm curious because the last time I was over in your neighborhood was Tuesday, how many dogs did you have Tuesday? I won't hold you. Two days ago. Two days ago, Tuesday. It doesn't have to be exact, but you know, roughly 25, 35, 10.

Tuesday we had 30.

30. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Commissioner Moderate. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. So just I want to talk about the neighbors itself. The home closest to the property, the one in the back, I think it's just like 44 feet away. And also one on the right, not in the front, but on the on the right side of the property. Are these two neighbors complained about any of these concerns the neighbors have because they are being the closest to the house right now? So

We've received letters of support from both the folks right behind the property that about 44 house that's 44 feet away and from that other side of the property that you're talking about. Yeah. Letters of support.

And they are supporting the application?

As of the latest I've heard, yes.

Okay. And and I know there are some videos that just talked about the noise part itself. How often, were there noise complaints in the neighborhood regarding the regarding the canal?

I believe so commissioner Madre, that's a really hard question for us to answer because we don't get copies of all of those emails. So just like Commissioner Myers was holding up kind of a stack of emails, those aren't always shared with the applicant either. So I don't know that I have an accurate answer to give you, and that's not me trying to punt. I don't wanna say something that might be inaccurate.

Thank you.

Thanks for now. Commissioner Jasper.

Okay. Thank you. I'm going to ask the same question that I asked to staff. I understand that this is a business that kind of started incrementally in your home and that expanded quite a bit, perhaps in a way that was not completely expected. But it is important to me to understand what kind of criteria you looked at to determine what facilities you needed to manage this number of dogs in your home in a safe manner for the dogs, for the people, etcetera?

So if, you know, anybody can on behalf of the applicant.

Yeah, I'm happy to answer that. So since the very beginning, we started benchmarking on the, you know, the big boys out there. We visited every single one of the boarding and dog daycare in the area. My wife is a dog trainer, and we have been following all the guidelines from the benchmark in the market like dog gurus, AKC and all those guys in terms of we have a below market average of dogs per caretaker, almost 50% of the market applies out there. We also have more than enough square footage per dog, and we have designed the entire property thinking about that.

Years ago, people used to treat their dogs like animals and leave them outside. So that has changed. Nowadays, people treat their dogs like family members, and that's what we are trying to replicate there. That's what we provide to to the clients. So we have invested a lot of money. Our our basement has been retrofitted to accommodate all these dogs in a safe dog play area with large kennels. So we have been following and benchmarking all these, you know, industry out there in order to establish what we can or cannot do.

Okay. Well, I I would state and then kind of going back to the comment that Vice Chair Miller made. Certainly, from what I've seen, for example, people who run kennels, a variety of statutes and organizations describe the challenges with indoor air quality and the transmission of diseases, mostly airborne. The description of wood chips as a barrier is unique to me. Don't think that wood chips are actually a barrier.

They're permeable completely. And so I am concerned to make sure that we're being fastidious in making sure that each when we say we're looking at standards, we're using language carefully. I don't know. I mean, I've seen many examples of fencing in dog facilities. I haven't seen that kind of open on T post fencing that's being proposed for the interior fence anywhere, and I'm not sure that that would really be a compliant kind of fencing in that condition.

I also, having been in the facility and seen the kennels, am concerned that they're really, as you say, they're more residential than they are kind of in terms of size for some of the larger animals you might get in, have enough clearance, ability to turn around. And given that the dogs are only out during limited times and in limited numbers, I can you know, they're also in their kennels quite a bit too. And I know they have sometimes free run of the house, so they're not all in their kennels, but I do think that compliance with the minimum requirements on kennel size is something that should this go to the Board of Supervisors would be something that would be important to keep in mind. And I do feel that I really very uncomfortable with the idea that we're making stuff up in the context of a land use application in an area of expertise where we have no research. I mean data about how other land use decisions were made is not research about appropriate standards for a commercial operation of this type.

And so I'm very concerned that we're shoehorning a set of decisions that are not appropriately made in a land use context as part of a land use application.

Was there a question in there? You done? Okay.

I have one question, quick All right.

Go ahead. Quick.

It's for the applicant. Have you had experience before someplace else that you had a kennel?

That's our first kennel, but my wife is a dog trainer and she worked in many doggy daycares and dog boarding facilities.

Where did you have your kennel before? No, we

didn't have a kennel of our own before, but she has worked in other kennels.

Oh, okay. Thank you.

I I have a question and this kinda goes to to the setbacks. So when I was out there, when I did a did a visit, I think the thing that surprised me the most, I figured, oh man, they're gonna have 30 dogs and they're gonna be running all over the place. And what I found is when I was there I think you had 20 somewhere in the 20 mid twenties. And all the dogs just hung out with givers. They just stayed in areas. They walked. The dogs kinda walked with them. And I think other maybe one or two wandered off. So what I'm getting to is in your conditions you've agreed to not have no more

than

15 outside at a time. You currently, in the charts like the square foot per dog that you have is large. It could exceed most of the other ones that we've seen. Would you be willing to work to basically session if that's something that you'd be able to consider.

Yes. Absolutely. I think we're we're very open to receiving feedback. I I switched to the slide that shows where the 100 foot use setbacks would be if if unmodified. And so, you know, a 100 feet off the back is right up to the property, but or or right up to the house. But we are absolutely happy to have a discussion. We we haven't heard a specific number or or range, and I think that's something that we're absolutely happy to to discuss in more detail about increasing those setbacks. Yeah.

Okay. Alright.

Thank you for asking that question because that was on our list of things we wanted to make sure that the commission knew and we hadn't got a question about it quite yet. So thank you so much.

Okay. Alright. So at this point, we'll go ahead and open up the public hearing for this item. Before we get started, so when we have a large number of speakers, it's at the the chair's discretion to limit the normally three minutes per person. We have the ability to limit that if we choose. I'm not gonna do that. I know there's a lot of people here that have been waiting for a chance to speak on this. So I'll I will keep the time at three minutes, but I just we'll ask you to observe a few rules. One is you'll see when you go to speak, you'll you'll see the timer. I just respectfully ask you when your time is up to please, you know, yield the floor so the next person that can speak.

Also, we do have two speakers podiums. So I will always call out the next three speakers. So if you're one of the speakers I've called out, please move up to a vacant podium or stand behind a person that's at the other podium. That way we can kind of move through things more quickly. And lastly, direct your comments to the planning commissioners, not to staff, not to the applicant or anybody else in the room.

You're you're here to speak to us, so we wanna hear what you have to say. And as I mentioned before, please, from the audience, no no clapping or hollering or commenting. If you if you like something said, wave your hands or something, but this will help us keep things moving. So I will start. So the first speaker is Benjamin Cota, followed by Melissa McQuillan, followed by Kelly Graeber.

Hi there. My name is Ben Cota and I live in Brambleton along with my wife Sandra, daughter Aliyah, and our seven year old golden retriever Parker. I'm here to speak in favor of the Happy Paws canine application. You know, we all want what's best for our family. Our pets are part of our family and we want what's best for them.

Happy Paws provides an A plus service and a unique home atmosphere. We've been bringing Parker to Happy Paws for quite some time. Because we work, we've tried dog walking services, but frankly letting people into our homes is uncomfortable. We tried a few different commercial dog care places, places that you'd consider a kennel, but frankly it's kind of like sending our dog to a prison. We found happy paws on Facebook, tried them out, and frankly fell in love.

What this family does is to open their home to our dog and others is we know unique in the area. I'll run into people at the dog park and we all kinda quietly talk about happy paws and how it's frankly amazing. They have a great reputation in the community I can attest to that at least the folks in Brambleton. Happy paws is Parker's second home he spends time with his family with the family the trainers and other dogs. He comes home exhausted, but overall he's clean and he's happy.

In contrast to some of the other commercial places that we've tried, he come home just kinda dirty and gross and he seems stressed out. I get that it's in a neighborhood, so driving around, I try to be very respectful. I've not really kind of encountered a full driveway, a drop off, or any sort of congestion. It's rather a quick drop off and pick up procedure. It's frankly a fantastic service and I kinda don't even realize that there's kind of other dogs around because it's frankly quiet, although I know I don't live there in the neighborhood.

So from my experience, can tell you Parker is well taken care of and even loved. If it's two dogs or 30 dogs, I haven't noticed a difference. So I would encourage you all to grant, the the application. And finally, if there's any folks in here in favor of the application, would you please stand up? Thank you, commissioners.

Thank you very much. Our next speaker is Melissa McQuillan to be followed by Kelly Graber and Patty Collins Bliss.

Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Melissa McQuillan and I'm here to speak in strong support of the permit for happy paws canine. I'm a client, a dog owner, and someone who values responsible, well run small businesses in our community. My dog's name is Brooklyn, and one of the most telling things about happy Paws happens every week before we even leave the house. When I tell Brooklyn it's daycare day, she gets visibly excited. She jumps up and down, runs around wagging her tail, clearly knowing where she's going. She loves going there, and that kind of reaction only comes from an environment where a dog feels safe, calm, and genuinely well cared for. She's my first dog. I've never had a pet before in my life. I don't have any children.

She is my child. And to leave her anywhere really took a lot from me to begin to find a place where I could send her, where I knew she was going to be taken care of. What sets Happy Paws apart is that it operates in that in home setting. That was what appealed to us when we were looking. It wasn't a large commercial or industrial facility. It's a quiet structured home environment that prioritizes supervision, routine, and appropriate care. Brooklyn isn't confined to a kennel all day. She's part of a household. When we board her, she sleeps with a human at night. She has a favorite person there, just like she does at home.

As an owner, I also appreciate the transparency. We receive a photo album album at the end of each day which shows how Brooklyn has spent her time playing, resting, and interacting in a positive controlled environment. That level of communication and accountability builds trust and reflects a high standard of professionalism. The hands. From my experience happy paws canine is run thoughtfully and responsibly with clear attention to animal welfare and being a good neighbor.

It provides an important service for pet owners who are looking for a smaller scale low impact alternative to traditional facilities, especially for dogs who do better in calmer home based settings. Approving this permit supports responsible pet care, small businesses, and residents who depend on reliable, do that. Going consideration.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Kelly Graber to be followed by Patty Collins Bliss to be followed by Lauren Storm.

Good evening, members of the board and commissioners. My name is Kelly and I stand before you today not only as a resident of Leesburg, but also a grateful member of the happy nine Happy Paws canine family. Alongside my husband, Jason, and my beloved 10 year old dog, Kendall, we have the privilege of being loyal customers since Happy Paws Canine first opened its doors. I'm here to express my wholehearted support for Happy Paws special ex ex application, which would allow them to continue operating their in home doggy daycare. I cannot overstate the positive impact this establishment has had on our family and a wider community and most importantly, our dog, Kendall.

From the very first day we entrusted Kendall to Beatrice, Marcel, and their family and their dedicated team, we knew we found something truly special. The joy and excitement Kendall shows every time we arrive at Happy Paws speaks volumes. It is clear she feels safe, loved, and thoroughly at home. She doesn't look back. She walks right in proud and ready to go.

Happy paws k nine is not your average doggy daycare or boarding. Their approach is unique and deeply caring. The outdoor off leash environment the property provides for exercise and the variety of activities, including obstacle courses, toys, even trampolines ensures that every dog is not only physically active but also mentally and socially stimulated. This holistic approach results in well balanced, happy pets who bring positivity and love back to our homes and our community. What truly sets Happy Paws Canine apart is the round the clock at home attention each dog receives.

The caregiver provides our custom meals, administered medications as needed, and ensure that every dog enjoys ample exercise and human human interaction. This level of dedicate dedication is unmatched and has made a world of difference in Kendall's well-being, development, and socialization. As a pet owner, there's no greater peace of mind than knowing your dog is in such capable and loving hands. The environment at Happy Paws is safe, nurturing, and fun in a place where dogs truly thrive. I urge you to support the continuation of Happy Paws operation.

Their commitment to excellence, their positive impact on our pets, and their invaluable service to our community deserves your full backing. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Alright. Thank you. Next speaker, Patty Collins Bliss to be followed by Lauren Storm to be followed by Lakshmi Thangaraj.

Good evening, chair and members. My name is Patty Collins Bliss, and I'm here to express my full support for Happy Paws and their special exemption application to continue operating their in home doggy daycare. We have been a deeply satisfied customer of Happy Paws for nearly five years. Our dog, Riot, has attended daycare there consistently at least one time every week, and also we have boarded them during our, vacations. It has truly become a second home for him.

He is cared for with genuine love, patience, and attention, and is treated like a member of their family, which I believe, as others have said, is what sets this facility apart from others. The environment at Happy Paws, I believe, has truly played a significant role in shaping our dog into one of the most friendliest social dogs that you will ever find. Being firefighters in the department, we work very unique schedules. We work twenty four hour shifts with a start time at 6AM in the morning, which we are at the firehouse by 05:30 to be ready to go. Happy Paul's has been the only boarding facility within Loudoun County that will accommodate not only ourselves but many of the other fire and rescue personnel that are employed by the county who also use Happy Pulse as their daycare facility.

They allow early morning drop offs if necessary, provide twenty four hour care, and do not penalize us when we are held late on emergency calls. That flexibility we will not find anywhere else and it is essential to first responders. Happy Paws is an asset to this community, and I urge you to approve their special exemption so they may continue their work. As others have said, we spell out w a l k treats for our dogs so they don't get excited. When we mentioned going to day care, our dog, I swear, doesn't sleep at night.

And I feel like if I let him out a mile from Happy he would be able to find his way there. He jumps out of the car, doesn't care about me at all, and truly when he comes home, he is so happy and satisfied, sleeps through the entire night. He is like our kids are grown. He is like our child. And Happy Paul's is the only facility where I feel like I am leaving him in our home. Thank you.

Foundation for our We have

provide peace of mind for pet owners. I know when I send my pet to happy paws they're gonna have fun playing outside have safe interactions with other dogs and have the ability to explore the yard. It's been a life changer to know that I can send my pet to happy paws and he'll be treated like family. From documenting the pet stays through photos for owners and even putting coats on the dogs when it gets cold, think it's safe to say that nobody compares to happy paws and the level of service that they provide. Our dog used to be so scared of the car that we would have to carry him. After sending him to Happy Paws, when we put the collar on him, he jumps up and runs to the door, wagging his tail because he's so excited to go

to

daycare. It's been the most life changing thing to know that our dog is safe and cared for. Don't know what my husband and I would do without them, and I hope you all grant them the exception needed. Thank you.

Thank you. Next speaker, Lakshmi Thangaraj, followed by Jackie Morrow, followed by Satura Fox.

Hi. My name is Lakshmi Thangaraj, we and are here to support Happy on behalf of myself and my family. We are the residents of Little River District and live at 41631 Bostonian Place, Aldi, and we have a Bernese Mountain Dog who is nine years old. We are a customer of Happy Paws for the last four years since December 2021. We use Happy Paws to board our doggy, Flash, overnight four three to four times a year.

He stays a week to ten days in the boarding during our summer and December trips when we go out of town and even out of the country. We do not like canals where they feel lonely. We take a long time to select a friendly and safe dog sitter by visiting and meeting the boarding locations with our doggy and choose them only if both we and our pet is happy at the location and the caretaker's behavior. The second part of selection is by sending our doggy for a day, and only if we are convinced that with the sitter, we continue. We have had many other dog sitters and boarding places before we found Happy Paws and have not gone to them once we found Happy We found them very loving and affectionate caretakers.

They have big fenced areas with lots of shade and trees where dogs could walk freely. Dogs are brought out many times in a day, and the caretakers make sure he eats his food regularly that we provide from home, and they go above and beyond providing homemade food if he does not have the food that we send him. We do get night we get everyday pictures, and we have seen so much love he gets from each caretaker. Our family is very attached to our doggy flash and feels anxious when we go on a trip. The biggest relief and peace of mind is that he is being boarded at Happy Paws where we know he'll be very safe and get lot of care.

Flash demands lot of attention, and I vouch that Happy Paws gives him all their love. They make us feel extra special by replying to our daily private texts and pictures of him being pampered. Happy Paws is a very good but us but taking a specific group of dogs outside, and this is capable only because of their expertise and knowledge. They bring them out in batches and avoid any issues. We have found Happy Paws as well maintained, professional, and very clear and never felt any bad smell.

We spent five to ten minutes when we drop him, and we have never heard any noise or barking when we have been there. And we don't have any traffic when we go there. The roads are clear. We want to conclude that Happy Paws is very safe, clean, loving, and peaceful doggy daycare. We greatly appreciate all their services. Thank you.

Alright. Thank you. Next speaker is Jackie Morrow followed by Satura Fox followed by Anna Childs.

Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I am speaking in favor of the requested special exception and ask you to approve it to allow Happy Paws to continue to operate their facility in the same manner as they currently do. A place like this is so badly needed in our area to keep our pups happy, healthy, entertained, and socialized. I've been a dog person my entire life since I picked out my first dog when I was in third grade.

Finding good, trustworthy daycare and boarding facilities in our area has been challenging over the years. When I found Happy Paws Canine, I was absolutely ecstatic, a home based business where my dogs could live, breathe, and stay with family twenty four hours a day. Most sporting facilities only allow for small times outside for walks and play and really spend the rest of their time in a kennel. Happy Boz treats our dogs as family. They have amazing outdoor play time, take breaks inside, and get unconditional love while there.

They manage play groups, provide needed structure, and maintain a loving peaceful environment. The dogs are supervised at all times, not put in a kennel environment with constant barking. My dog actually does get to play on that trampoline. I never have to worry when I'm out of town that my dogs are being well taken care of. My two seventy five pound dogs come home happy, tired, and well cared for. On any given day, all I have to say to them is, do you wanna go to school? And they jump up, run to the door, and wait for the car ride to Happy Paws. I do see in the staff report that staff found that the maximum of 35 was too intensive a scale as we've talked about. It also states that they did a comparison with other kennels. If you haven't already, and I know some of you have, I ask you to go to the home, stand outside, and listen.

You won't hear more than a few noises coming from the property. This property is not like other kennels. Traditional kennels are loud. You know you are there once you get close, as is the kennel on the W And OD Trail that I can hear about a mile or two away because that is so loud. This home environment is quiet and had you not known that the dogs were there, you wouldn't even be able to tell from outside the home.

Also noted in the report is a staff recommendation to speak in a work session to get guidance on the appropriate scale for this facility. Happy paws is not that traditional kennel. So I ask you to remember that if and when this comes before you for discussion in a work session, perhaps give some thought to what a traditional kennel is and what this application is, a home based dog facility. I do know that making changes to the zoning ordinance and code is not something that happens overnight. I worked for a local government for a very long time, but just something to think about.

But to reiterate, I would ask you to approve and forward this application to the board this evening. Finally, as you can see from the sign up, I don't live in Loudoun County, but I do travel to the facility. It takes me thirty minutes, but I do it because it is the best place. I do volunteer my time in Loudoun County. I deliver home home delivered meals, and I spend a lot of my time here as well. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Thank you. Next speaker is Satura Fox followed by Anna Childs followed by Justin Hogan. Satura Fox? Nope. Alright. Next will be Anna Childs followed by Justin Hogan followed by Jennifer Brin.

Hi. I've been a client for two and a half years. By the time my husband and I adopted our dog Gina, she had spent a year in a cage locked in the basement alone. When we

Hold on. Is her microphone on? Okay.

It's just Yes.

Didn't sound like it. Okay. Sorry. By

the time we adopted our dog, she had spent a year alone locked in a cage in the basement in the dark without human interaction. We started looking for a daycare, and when we found Happy Paws, it was such a gift to see that animals can go outside and play joyfully. I was such a gift that I didn't have to drive 30 miles somewhere in the country to find a place like this where they're allowed to be outside and run. And it is safer than a dog park because the animals are vaccinated and you know that they are. The fact that it's small, home based provides such a nurturing environment that my dog behaves there much better than she does with our own neighbors.

She doesn't bark there. That's unusual. This is such a unique service to this community. In fact, it's so unique. I heard you say today that there's no precedent. Right? You know why? I think it's because on paper, we don't know how this can work. That's how special it is. You and I couldn't take care of 30 dogs, but somehow they can. I don't know how they do. And it I it's special. You heard it today, and this is why it's special. They clean. They calm the dogs.

And these people know how to run the kennel and live with these animals in the house. Places like this make other systems work. When you think of rescue organizations that save animals from horrific conditions, that only works when someone takes those dogs in. And we do. The dog owners, right?

And that's our small way to serve this community. And we need help. And this business is the kind of help that we get. And that makes the whole system work better. It's very important that if anybody has concerns or reservations about this business operating operating in the residential area, that these concerns be addressed appropriately.

And that's why we have a process. How many upgrades they have to make? How many inspections they have to pass? How many other requirements they have to meet? If the process works, and it should and if it doesn't, that's not on them, then by the end of it, all the concerns will have been addressed, correct? So let's trust the process that we have and respect the work that these people put into it. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Our next speaker will be Justin Hogan followed by Jennifer Brin followed by Georgia Knuckles. And folks, at that time, we're gonna take a quick break, just for the timing. So I think, some commissioners need a need a a a break, and it helps to have more time to, you know, pay better attention for the remainder of the public hearing. I don't normally like to take breaks during public comment, but the timing of these applications was such that before the start, it would have been too soon, and we're gonna need to take a break here. So, we'll get through the next three speakers, and then we're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll resume. Okay? Thank you.

Mr. Hogan. Good evening. Merry Christmas everyone. My name is Justin Hogan. I live at 40802 Oak Bucket Lane. I am the most adjacent neighbor to Happy Paws. I am at the rear of their property. We my wife and I are a customer of Happy Paws. Our master bedroom is on the main level and it's a wing that faces closest to their property line.

And we've never had an issue with noise, anything along the lines of that. I do all the yard work in my property and all these customers that are stating how good Happy Paws is, feel like I probably have a better idea than any of them because I'm so close, always outside and I can truly tell how they treat their dogs, their customers and just overall care for the animals. Most people have dogs. You take it to a kennel. You know, I always envision closing that door and just seeing your dog walk through the door, tail between the legs.

That's completely different at Happy Falls from what I've witnessed. And, you know, like I said, you know, wouldn't be sitting here, standing here in front of you guys in support if there was noise issues or anything along the lines of that. I know Marcel and Beatriz have always been very forthcoming with my family as far as getting ahead of any issues that we might have. And to be I've never sent a single message saying, Hey, can we discuss this or that? But I know if I ever had that issue that it wouldn't be an issue.

You know, we'll take our dog to Happy Paws, be three states away and I find out that my dog is sleeping in Luca, Marcel and Beatrice's bed opposed to concrete ground or, you know, a pen with no comfort or anything. That's about all I have to say. Here's fourth half of the balls.

Alright. Thank you. Jennifer Brin to be followed by Georgia Knuckles.

Hello, commissioners. I am Jennifer Brin. I live on Woodside with my husband and our two retired racing greyhounds and Cardigan Welsh Corgi. I am not a I'm not a client of Happy Paws, so I feel a little unique there. But that's partly because until this came up, I didn't know they existed.

I walked my dogs down that street. We drive past there all the time. I never would have known if this hadn't come up that it was there. It I have been very interested in this process to see what people's complaints or concerns were. And my big thing is if they have been operating at this level for two years, what has already?

And as far as I can tell, the impact is minimal. I'm not trying to minimize what people have gone through, but I can't discover any I've never heard any dogs more from them. In fact, they're quieter, then you you wanna talk about our neighborhood is full of dogs that bark. Everybody has a dog, the dogs bark. Mine is very loud, I'm very sorry.

Corgis, man, just don't. And it seems like everything else they have a method for addressing. You know, the dog waste I know there was concerns about the wood chips work very well, but I'm not a scientist, so I'll leave that to the scientists. You know, and in relation to other things that might cause waste or noise, I mean, lot of people have chickens. Chickens cause a lot of waste.

People have roosters. Generally speaking, these are the sort of thing. There are horses on the same street as me. There are a lot of deer. If we could do something about them, that would be a whole thing.

A long time ago, it seems, you know, pre pandemic, so that was a long time ago, I lived in Arlington and I took my dog to a doggy daycare there that was a big concrete box. They were taken out a couple of times a day to go to the bathroom, but for the most part, they lived in a big kennel. Happy paws seems to be a much better solution and a much nicer solution than, you know, what my greyhound I had at the time went through, although he didn't care. He didn't know much. You know, and as far as traffic, I think that there is a bigger concern with traffic with people cutting through Gleadsville to Evergreen Mill in between our, right through our neighborhood.

And nobody stops at stop signs. So, I do, but thank you. Thank

you. And our last speaker before the break will be Georgia Knuckles.

Hi there. So my name is Georgia Knuckles. I live on Oatlands Chase Place, right in the heart of the neighborhood threatened by Happy Paws Canine. Our once quiet, safe rural community has already been turned upside down by this operation. Reckless speeding, illegal passes around flashing school buses, near misses with children on bikes, and pedestrians forced off the road.

These aren't hypotheticals. They're daily realities backed up by nonstop resident complaints, constant sheriff patrols, citations, and petitions documenting ongoing violations. In fact, over a just a three day period, the sheriff's deputy's office issued 20 ticketed citations and dozens of warnings confirmed by deputy Rudolph. 90% of those were directly related to Happy Paws canine, and that was just three days. Now the applicant wants a special special exception to more than triple their capacity to 40 dogs for commercial day care and boarding, but their traffic study is deceptive and models 10 dogs seeking approval for 35 absurdly absurdly calming, claiming only 18 daily trips when the real impact would mean a 160 because you're talking about drop off, then they gotta pick them up, all that other nonsense.

Right? And then you've got all the people that are doing their, whatever, their overnights. All that surging through our narrow, unmarked, tar chip roads with no sidewalks. We have no shoulders, and there's zero room for error. Worst of all, their rush hour drop offs and pickups directly overlap with school bus schedules. Customers already ignore stop sign and speed speed limits, slowing down blatantly disregarding children's safety. Approving this expansion wouldn't just worsen the chaos. It would invite preventable tragedy for our kids, our seniors, our walkers, and our families. This isn't compatible with our rural residential zoning. It's a commercial takeover that increases risks, breaks rules, endangers lives all just for profit.

I urge you reject the special exception outright, protect our families, preserve our community's rural character, and uphold the laws designed to prevent exactly this kind of threat. And those in the community that support that me and what I'm saying, stand up, please.

Thank you.

Alright. Thank you very much. We're gonna take quick break. Commissioners, please, 08:45 sharp. We'll we'll start up again.

So I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Get started.

Okay.

And our next speakers are gonna be Wendy Kanzanese, followed by Tiffany Hargest, I believe it looks like Roy Kane.

My name is Wendy Kanzanese and I live in the neighborhood close to Happy Paws. I stand in opposition for special exemptions specs twenty twenty four zero zero two one specs twenty twenty four zero zero two four. Happy Paws K nine Kennel. I provided you with a handout to follow my presentation. The Loudoun County staff report to this commission makes it perfectly clear that these applications must be denied and the existing kennel operation closed immediately due to ongoing zoning violations and significant incompatibility with surrounding residential issues.

The county grounds for denial include illegal operation denial, excessive scale intensity denial, setback reductions denial, noise impacts denial, odor and waste management risk denial, fence and buffer violations denial, public health safety and welfare denial, community opposition denial, failure to meet general plan to you that Happy Paws K9 Kennel is operating illegally, proposes an excessive scale of use, seeks unsafe setback reductions, and posts unacceptable risks to noise, odor, public health, and neighborhood compatibility. The overwhelming evidence presented by staff demonstrates that this use is fundamentally incompatible with a rural policy area and the 2019 general plan. For these reasons, the planning commission and board of supervisors must deny special exemptions application specs twenty twenty four dash twenty twenty one and specs twenty twenty four dash 24 and require the immediate closure of the Happy Paws canine kennel. Thank

Thank you. Next speaker, Tiffany Hargest followed by Roy and Miriam Kane.

Good evening. My name is Tiffany Hargest. I live on Oatlandschase Place, the same street as Happy Paws. I do not approve of this business in our residential neighborhood. I feel that 90% of the 95% of the people here supporting this business are not residents of our neighborhood and do not have to contend with the traffic and the health concerns. Not to mention the concern of how their business is unfairly, negatively affecting our property values. I would like to know how many people here tonight supporting this business would want this in their neighborhood. Thank you.

Thank you. Roy and Miriam Kane to be followed by Bryce Armstrong.

Good evening, chair members. Thank you for letting us speak. I'm Miriam Kane. My husband Roy and I are here in support of Happy Paws application. We've been bringing our sweet boy Milo to daycare at Happy Paws for about three and a half years. We're so grateful to find this option after a very poor experience and cramped daycare kennel with little outdoor space. Milo loves his time with his friends at Happy Paws. He's well socialized, and he's exhausted when he gets home. Without counting weekends when we boarded Milo and longer stays of ten or more days, we've dropped him off and picked him up well over 600 times. Not once not once have we experienced chaos, loud barking.

As a matter of fact, it's remarkable how these dogs operate as a calm pack. This is a testament to the outstanding staff and to Beatrice Marcel's ongoing training. When I first inquired about day care, was first granted an appointment and interviewed regarding Milo's habits and his behaviors. Milo himself was then vetted by Beatrice Marcel's own dog to see if Milo met the criteria of a safe dog to allow into the pack as well as walking the property together. I was truly floored by the quality of the care and respect of these animals.

I was then given a tour of the property, both outside and inside. It was and it remains impeccably clean. There are no dog odors, and even with the presence of multiple dogs there, a very calm and peaceful environment. These dogs are not only being safely cared for, they're being taught to cohabitate in spite of their differences. That in itself is worth more than we can pay.

We are honored to consider ourselves members of this Happy Paws family. And we've since been invited to come into the property so that we could witness what Milo gets to experience during his days in daycare, a very open and transparent operation. After every single visit, we're sent many, many photos, not only of Milo, but of all the goings on that day with all the other dogs, run with a huge heart. Happy Paws is a wonderful part of the Leesburg community, a treasured small business that serves many of our local families and does it with excellence, giving us peace of mind as we work, travel, or just want well socialized socialized dogs. I pray it may be able to remain that way.

It would certainly be a great loss to so many local families on so many levels. Thank you for your time.

Miss Kayne, is your husband here to speak to?

He is.

He is. Okay. We got Roy Kane, followed by Bryce Armstrong, followed by Charles Givens.

Good evening. Thank you very much for your time this evening. As a time of hope and a day that hope is hard to get, I hope that Happy Pause continues for many, many, many years. Thank you.

Thank you. Bryce Armstrong followed by Charles Givens followed by Thomas Pearson.

Hey, good evening. My name is Bryce Armstrong. I live at 20596 Woodcock Court. I'm just right down the street from Happy Paws by about a block and a half. I've lived in the community for several years now.

I have three young kids that actually go to the bus stop right there adjacent to the property at Oak Bucket in Oatlands. It's only my kids and Justin's kids that actually use that bus stop right outside to support happy pause this evening, you know, with with for the reason that we're all here. Additionally, my we're one of few families in the community that have young kids that are outside outside all the time riding bikes. My family is plays in the outdoors at all times. My wife walks our dog, although we're not we're not in business with happy paws, our dog does not go there.