Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening everybody. Welcome to the town of Lascatos Planning Commission meeting on April 22nd, 2006. Meeting is now called to order. I will now call the role. Please state here when your name is called. Commissioner Stump here. Commissioner Sordy here. Vice Chair Bernett here. Commissioner Thomas here. Commissioner Bernett here. Commissioner Mayor here.

And I am here as well. Please stand if you're able while Vice Chair Bernett leads us in the pledge. As the planning commission conducts the meeting this evening, we encourage active participation by the public, which is essential to democracy and the important work of the planning commission. Public input is very much welcomed and is always considered. The public can participate in a couple ways. Prior to a meeting, written comments about agenda items may be submitted to staff. And during the meeting, there will be two opportunities for members of the public to participate. First, during the verbal communications period, an individual may speak on any topic that is not on the agenda. And second, during the public hearing portion of tonight's meeting, any member of the public may speak about an agenda item. If you wish to address the commission tonight during verbal communications portions or a public hearings agenda item, please raise your hand on Zoom or if you're here in person, complete a speaker card and please hand that to staff and they will get it to me. Please print your name and provide um no just print your name but provide phonetic spelling if possible. When you are called to speak, please come up to the podium. Speak directly into the microphone as this meeting is being recorded. State your name or indicate if you are speaking anonymously and you will have three minutes to speak. Before we move into communications, I do want to note that we will be taking a brief break this

evening at 8:00. We now will begin the public begin the verbal communications portions of the meeting during which members of the public are invited to address the commission on any issue that is not on the agenda for tonight's meeting. There will be a three-minut timer and staff will announce when your time is up. I would like to add that we take no action about items discussed during the verbal communications portion of the hearing. I think I have one agenda or one card. Yes. Paul R. Testing. It's working. The World Cup is coming. The World Cup is coming. The World Cup is coming. I'd like to try to put this on the agenda because uh as you know um the World Cup's coming and we since we hosted the Brazilian national team in 1994 and they won and I've been going to the all the commissions and stuff like that and been bouncing. I'm sorry I'm not a public speaker and I think I got hit one too many times in the head with a soccer ball when I was youth. So, try to keep keep that in mind. But, uh, they've been bouncing me around and I'm just trying to say I don't think we're the town's ready for all the people that remember 1994 and the World Cup. And I think it should be an agenda item that uh you

know because the people are World Cup's coming and you know the all the other the the writing on the wall for the 4th of July it's be a big weekend and what happened in 94 happened on 4th of July. The the the US national team lost to Brazil. Um there was partying in the street. We were dancing with them even though we lost one nothing. I was rooting for Brazil, but um you know it was fun for everybody and uh I think that you that the that since it's on a week the the three-day you know things people will remember it and and and it'll get it'll automatically get uh publicity people will say hey I remember let's go down to Lascatus and have fun and party there. So I think that you guys got to you know Paul River ah World Cup is coming. Also uh I might speak on this even this this topic number two because I never really spoke on it. I I handed you this is the original card that I never handed in but I handed you a verbal and and things so I might speak on what's going up. Thank you. Thanks.

Thank you. Are there any questions for the speaker? No. Thank you. Um, Mr. Pollson, is there any are there any hands on Zoom? There are not.

Right. So, tonight we have one item on the consent calendar. That's the approval of the draft minutes of the April 8th, 2026 planning commission meeting. Before the planning commission acts on the consent calendar, any me members of the commission or public may request that an item be removed. Are there any such requests? Is there a motion to approve the consent calendar? Is there a second? Commissioner Stump. Thank you. I'll call the favor unless there's any discussion. Okay, vice chair. I'd like to put on the record that I watched the proceedings, but I did not attend in person.

That's right. Thank you. All right, we'll call the vote. All in favor? Right. Passes unanimously. Thank you. Sorry, I'm I'm recusing myself because I was sorry. You're right. I'm so sorry. And I did not uh I have not watched the meeting minutes because I'm recusing myself from this item fully.

Six six in favor, one abstension. We will now move on to our public hearing starting with item number two. Consider a request for approval to demolish existing maintenance buildings, construct new maintenance buildings, and site work requiring a grading permit for the La Rinkanatada Golf Course on property zoned RC located at 17445 Zena Avenue, 17400 Wedgwood Avenue and 14595 Clear View Drive, APN49-31-001. Architecture and site application S-25-044 categorically exempt pursuant to SQA guidelines section 15303 new construction and 15301 existing facilities. The property owner is Clear View Golf Associates LLC. Applicant is Andy Kimble and the project planner is Brian Safy. Before the staff report, can I see a show of hands of everyone who visited the property? Are there any disclosures? All right, Mr. Safy, may you be providing the staff report this evening? Certainly, and thank you. Good evening, commissioners. Before you tonight is a request for approval of an Arkansasite application to construct new maintenance buildings, uh, along with site work requiring a grading permit at the Link Canada Golf Course. Per Town Code, these maintenance buildings do require planning commission approval, which is why we're here tonight. The subject property includes um several different parcels and addresses um over 118 different acres um and as mentioned includes that golf course and the country club. There's an existing conditional use permit that governs uh the golf course and country club and the work proposed with this application would not impact those uh conditions of approval that govern um the use permit. As a reminder, in August of last year,

planning commission reviewed and approved an Arkansasite application for a very comprehensive redevelopment of this property. Um, it included realigning the the the different holes on the course. Um, very substantial earthwork movement and removal of hundreds of trees. And that work has now commenced. Uh, so now the applicants back before us requesting approval to redevelop the maintenance yard associated with the golf course. Um it's located on the southernmost end of the property off Zena Avenue. Uh the application specifically includes construction of two new primary maintenance buildings and site grading to accommodate a new firetruck turnaround, realign drive aisles, and the new uh building pads. The existing existing maintenance employee parking area would be redesigned, increasing the number of parking spaces to 15. Uh per town code, the combined total of 7,000 plus square feet of this uh these maintenance buildings only requires four parking spaces. So they are well um in excess of those requirements. Tree removals are proposed to facilitate this work. A landscape plan was provided um along with exhibit 12, I believe, that included the plans um showing how they're going to protect the existing trees, replant um and what their new landscaping would be like out there. Uh the proposed work with this project complies with all relevant town code um standards. The applicant conducted neighborhood outreach with the immediate neighbors. Um and this summary is included exhibit 11 of the report. No public comments has been received since we uh did the the notice cards. This concludes staff's presentation and we're happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Safy. Are there any questions for staff? All right, seeing none, we will now open the public portion of the public hearing for item number two and give the applicant an opportunity to address the commission for up to five minutes. I don't actually have a speaker card. All right, fill one out afterwards, please. Thank you. Would you mind stating your name, then?

Uh, I'm Andy Kimble, general manager at Linkanada Country Club. Um, just want to say good evening to the commissioners. Uh, good to see you all again. Uh, on behalf of Linkanatada Country Club, I'm here to represent an investment that reflects both responsibility to our employees and a commitment to being thoughtful, forward-looking neighbors in Lascatos. While our existing maintenance facilities, which date back to 1970, have served us for decades, they're no longer aligned with today's standards in terms of operational efficiency or the quality workspace we believe our employees deserve. By upgrading our facilities, we will be able to transition away from traditional combustion-based equipment towards electric and in some cases autonomous electric equipment. This shift is meaningful as it allows us to reduce our overall noise profile within the surrounding community while advancing our environmental sustainability goals. Equally important, this project represents a major improvement in working conditions for our maintenance staff. These are the people that who maintain and care for the property every day. Providing them with a safe, efficient, and modern work environment is not just a good business decision, it's the right thing for us to do. Linkinatada Country Club has worked hard over the years to be a good neighbor and employer and we take that responsibility seriously. Throughout this planning process, we have maintain an open and ongoing dialogue with our neighbors and the town's consultants. We've listened carefully to their input and have incorporated that feedback into the current design. From a practical standpoint, the project timeline is relatively short. Construction is expected to take 7 months, minimizing disruption while delivering long-term benefits. Ultimately, we are requesting tonight, what we are requesting tonight is approval of the project application as recommended by staff. We feel this is a thoughtful plan that balances operational needs, employee well-being, and environmental responsibility. I have

our architect here with us, Jeffrey Eaton, who is here uh to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Are there any questions for the applicant? All right, seeing none, we now invite comments from members of the public. If you have not already turned in a speaker card to the staff, please do so at this time or raise your hand on Zoom. I do not currently have any cards for anyone that may want to speak. Mr. Pollson, is there anyone on Zoom? There are no hands raised. All right. Well, typically this is when we give you a little bit of time to make a closing statement. Do you have anything you would like to add?

All right. Before we close the public portion, are there any further questions that may want to be asked of the applicant? All right, then. I will now close the public portion of the public hearing on item number two. And I invite commissioners to ask questions of staff or propose a motion. I would like to remind my fellow commissioners that we cannot engage in a discussion amongst oursel until a motion and a second is on the table. Any questions of staff or motion? Mr. Bernett.

Yeah, I'd like to make go ahead and make a motion. Okay. Okay. I make a motion uh for approval to demolish existing maintenance building, construct new maintenance buildings and site work requiring a grading permit for the Lancinada Golf Course on property zoned RZ located at 1744 Zena Avenue, Wedgewood Avenue, and Clear View Drive. All right. Is there a second, Commissioner Sorty? All right. Second. Is there discussion?

Commissioner Thomas,

I I just want to say that um we I think almost all of us were here when we saw the original application for the whole um the big the big redo. Um, and I know that at that time there was a lot of discussion and contemplation about removal of trees. And I just want to say for the record that um the trees that are proposed to be removed in this are um also not are a risk and should be align with the rest of everything that we discussed um last time because they are redwood trees that were like planted there in the in the ' 70s etc. And they um cannot be like sustained or maintained safely for the the neighborhood in the golf course. moving forward. So, I just wanted to state that I support the tree replacements, etc.

Right. Thank you, Commissioner. Are there any other comments? All right. Seeing none, I'll call the question. All in favor? All right. Passes unanimously. Um, Mr. Pawson, are there any appeal rights on this item? Yes. Thank you. Uh, anyone who's not satisfied with the decision of the planning commission can appeal that decision to the town council. Forms are available online. There's a fee for filing the appeal and the appeal must be filed within 10 days.

Right. Thank you so much. Item number three is a continuation to consider a request for approval to modify an existing conditional use permit for expanded hours of an operation in an institution for religious observance, the West Valley Muslim Association. on property zoned R-18 located at 16769 Farley Road, APN424-21-062. Categorically exempt pursuant to SQA guidelines section 15301 existing facilities. Property owner is the West Valley Muslim Association. Osman Gapor is president and the applicant is Razi Moheden, which I know I just said that wrong. I'm so sorry. And the project planner is Jocelyn Shman. We closed the public portion of this item during the last meeting. However, Miss Shootman, are there any additional comments or Oh, I'm so sorry. Miss Commissioner Thomas needs to recuse herself. Please give us a moment.

I will be recusing myself as I uh live in close proximity to this application. So, thank you. I just don't want you to keep going. I'm just so happy you're here. So, okay. Okay. All right. Apologies.

Miss Schuman Schuman, is there anything to add to the staff report for this item? Thank you and good evening. Um staff has nothing to add, just that this is a continued item from the March 31st date. Um and that there also were two addendum reports and desk item reports that were published after the staff report with additional public comments as well as information from the applicant and their legal counsel.

Thank you so much. Are there any questions of staff? Oh, I'm sorry. Um as town attorney would like to make a question, I wanted to um state something regarding items that have been submitted into the record. Um the town did receive a letter saying that one of the speakers at the last meeting had said stop the islamification. Um and staff has reviewed the meeting video and that statement was not made. Um, and then I also wanted to comment on a submission of Next Door comments into the record. And I wanted to clarify that the comments on Next Door do not reflect the views of the planning commission or any of the public discussion that has taken place on this topic to date.

Thank you so much for that clarification, Miss Whan.

All right, at this time, are there any questions of staff? Commissioner Bernett? Yes. I have a question for staff. So if if um applicant comes before uh the town and is requesting a cup conditional use permit and they they do not um ask for early hours. They do not ask for any morning hours. They only ask for evening hours like the 1990 CUP which was 10 p.m. and the 2020 cup which was 10 p.m. Um, are you to assume that the applicant would be u following the town's noise ordinance or the the quiet hours? Uh would that be um basically accepted that that would be the hours that they would work with even though they didn't mention morning hours? Yes. Um, under the existing CUP, uh, there's no language addressing morning hour operations, which means that the town's ordinance governs. Um, and the town's noise ordinance speaks to noise disturbances and that has a very specific definition and it does not include cars entering and exiting. And so when the applicant came forward for this modification um staff and the applicant viewed it as a good opportunity to um make the new cup match what's actually occurring on site meaning address it because the existing cup is entirely silent which means that the activity is is permitted because there's no restrictions on morning use at this time. I see. That's a little confusing. If if it's not um asked for in the first place, you would assume that the applicant would go by the town's noise ordinance.

Yeah. I mean, what's interesting about the town's noise ordinance is the quiet hours prohibit noise disturbances um during quiet hours. And it's important to look at how the term noise disturbances is defined in the ordinance. And the hours then if there were no hours requested. Um, so you can't have a noise disturbance prior to 8 a.m. and subsequent to 10 p.m. Thank you. Are there any other questions of staff? Vice Chair Bernett and then Commissioner Sn.

Not sure quite how to do this. uh for the town attorney. Um the request from the NAACP was that those uh inappropriate comments on Next Door not be considered as part of the hearing. I certainly take that to heart. I think I speak on behalf of other commissioners to that point, but is there a way that we can confirm that? Um confirm that they won't be considered. Um, I think my statement was intended to confirm that those aren't part of the discussion that's in front of the planning commission. This is a land use decision. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Stump.

Um, at our last meeting um the commission unanimously recommended that the parties um pursue mediation. And so I would like to move to reopen the public hearing to allow both the applicant and a representative for the Farley Road Neighborhood Coalition to update us on the commission's recommendation that the parties agree to mediation. So I don't know which party would like to step up first, but that's motion. You need to get a second.

Is there a second? All right. Commissioner Mayor, is there any discussion among the commissioners? Before we vote on this, I'm I'm going to be extraordinarily clear that this is not a dialogue or a negotiation. This is a succinct question ask question answered. All right. All in favor? All right. Passes four to two. We will now open the public portion of this public hearing for item number three for the specific purpose of answering questions related to the mediation efforts. Does the applicant want to come to the podium?

Yes. Thank you, commissioners. Um, we submitted a desk item today which actually highlights that. I'm happy to go over that if you want, but we can actually talk about that. Uh, following the March 31st hearing, we immediately requested a meeting as well as suggesting um proposed that equal cost sharing uh for the mediation and then also followed that up with a free mediator uh that was available to conduct uh a mediation session on April 17th. Um the the uh neighbors declined that uh request. Uh we also had proposed four additional no or lowcost government mediation services as well as three uh professional mediators as well. Um the neighbors came back and um uh they did not accept the lowcost uh options or they never acknowledged that uh declined to share the costs and um they submitted a updated list of uh uh professional mediators but also indicated that their lack of availability till fall of 2026. Um and later we found out that that request was actually for a pro bono u request for those mediators that they would not be available till fall of 2026. We did make meet with the neighbors on April 16th uh evening uh and no meaningful progress was made.

Just one clarification question. There was an email that was sent to you and Osman on April 16 from the neighbors and it basically said, "As discussed, we are open to participating in an initial no cost mediation session in May with a mutually agreed upon mediator as a constructive first step." Mhm. That sounds sounds like agreement, was it not? There was no mention of that on the meeting on October 16th and it was uh on in the email uh but it was already past the time that the free mediation was available. Thank you.

Is there a representative of the neighbors that would like to come?

Thank you for this opportunity. Um, what is the neighbor's update on mediation? We have been actively working on soliciting options given our task from the motion of the last meeting. Um, we're researching and understanding what mediation means and have um provided an update tonight to the commission to consider the feasibility of mediation and come back tonight with the date certain of 422. We were not in the mental mindset that we had to mediate before getting back here on the 22nd. So I just want to clarify that confusion. It was to consider the feasibility of mediating. Um we continue to actively investigate the mediation. We have met with the neighbors and WVMA to discuss a potential path forward as an initial step. We are discouraged to hear that the WVMA leadership says they would reluctantly consider mediation in the last meeting and that they are asking the commission to make a decision today even prior to discussing discussing the mediation feasibility. Um we also understand they are unwilling to assume the full financial responsibility um by choice as the applicant who's actually requesting the modification to the cup. We have contacted nine mediation services and individuals including some of the same JAMS affiliated um mediators and Jeff Blum who was actually referred to um the WVMA leadership over a year ago and they reached out and had a conversation a year ago with him. We've also spoken with Mr. Blum. We've identified one pro bono or free option. However, they said their earliest availability would be in the fall of 2026, and this may be later at this point since several weeks have passed since we engaged with them. We did identify the nonprofit center for human development with a couple of different options which have been submitted under

public comment. We are waiting on one Peninsula Conflict Resolution Center to get back to us and review our mediation requests and discuss the free or lowcost options. We have not had that meeting with them yet. We have actively engaged in good faith and done our research. As as a neighborhood, we are constrained by financial hardships. So, the options are limited. But again, the applicant has not the inability to pay but has chosen not to pay or be financially responsible. Um it I believe somebody also asked us how much time would we need and there are several factors which would determine the answer to that question depending on the applicant's willingness to pursue mediation which they told us um at our meeting with them that they did not want to pursue it depending on the applicant's commitment to pay for mediation and um depending on finding a balanced mediator who represent both sides equally. Any questions?

Thank you. All right. Thank you. I will now reclose the public portion of the hearing. Ask again if my fellow commissioners have questions of staff or if anyone wants to venture a motion.

All right, Commissioner Stump. and Vice Chair Bernett,

since we're not moving down the path of mediation, which I find, I'm sorry, I've got to say, very regrettable because the hope was that we would bring two parties together that could come to us with agreement um and with understandably some open items remaining, but that's not to be. So, I would like to also move to reopen the public hearing to allow the commission to ask additional questions relevant to the cup under consideration since we are moving forward tonight. Question to the maker of the motion. To whom are these questions directed? To the party requesting the cup to the applicant.

Okay. Is there a second? Commissioner Bernett, is there any discussion? I think again I'm going to make the statement that I would like for this to be a succinct question and answer, not a dialogue or a negotiation. I'll call the question. All in favor? Yes, you can. So that is to say that he's the maker of the motion is limited to his his and his only question or can we also ask questions now that we have the opportunity to clarify. There were some additional things that were put into the public record that I would I have at least one question. I would like the town attorney to weigh in on this.

Um if the public hearing is opened for an express purpose, any commissioner can ask a question related to that express purpose. And my understanding of the motion is it's for the express purpose of asking questions of the applicant. Okay, Mr. Sord, does that answer your question? Okay. All right. There any other questions? All right. I will call the question. All in favor? Passes four to two. I will now reopen the public portion of the public hearing and I will ask the applicant to please come to the stand and

thank you again at the last hearing when you answered the question for what your typical average daily service is which is about 500 uh participants. I wanted to ask about a couple of services particularly uh the fer uh the prayer service that is in the morning that um I I guess today I saw you requested start time is 4:20 a.m. So somewhere between 4:55 a.m. and 5:30 a.m. Um how many people typically attend the fer and you can certainly do this during non Ramadan uh period of time. What's your typical attendance?

Sure. it. Um, thank you so much uh, Commissioner St for asking that question. Uh, generally depends on weekdays and weekends. Uh, weekends it could be as much as about 100 uh, or uh, a little bit more on that one. On weekdays typically it's anywhere from about 20 to 50. Okay. Um, here. Do you expect that to grow over time? Possibly. Yes. Um, what about during Ramadan? How do those numbers change for that particular service? they typically uh increase by at least 50% uh in or or a little bit more possibly especially on weekends. Okay, thank you. Let me go to the other the other end which is

Issa.

Um and this prayer service begins I'm going to say between 8:45 and 9:15 p.m. Um how many congregants on average attend Issa? And again, let's start with outside of Ramadan. Sure. Um just to be clarify um the it's called the Isha prayer and the Isha or the night nightly prayer service uh it does not always start at uh 9:15 coming up in May, June, July and August it'll get closer to 10 p.m. And in fact in uh on June the longest days of June it'll occur after 1000 p.m. The start time itself is after 10 p.m. So keep in mind that even when its start time is 9:40 p.m. typically it takes us in and out about half an hour or longer. And that's the reason why we were asking for 10:30 p.m. Uh typically for the Asar prayer uh what happens is that because most people are out uh it is after work we see actually an increased attendance uh on on the Asia prayer. uh closer to when it's closer to 8:00 p.m. during winter months, we might get uh uh you know uh 80 to 100 people on weekdays and maybe about uh over 150 to 200 people uh on weekends.

Sorry. What was the number on weekends again? About 150 to 200. Okay. On there. And typically uh a lot of times on the weekends we typically have a uh Friday night program or a Saturday night program uh of you know seminars you know some kind of the other and if that happens uh then typically that would increase uh the attendance to about uh 300 to 500 people depending on who the speaker is and what the topic is and and so on.

How about during Ramadan? Ramadan uh Ramadan typically is uh as as I mentioned to you it uh is uh on the peak days we have seen uh 800 and uh some odd folks uh that I mentioned 850 or so uh during the first week or so there are approximately about anywhere from 500 uh to 600 and that goes up and down but that's just typically the the the attendance over there. uh the last 10 days of Ramadan are considered the holy days. So we see an increased attendance during uh the holy days and especially the the two odd nights the 25th and the 27th night of Ramadan is are considered especially uh relevant to our faith and that's when we see a lot more uh attendance on that one. But again to be clear just specifically talking about Issa

um is is what is your attendance and during Ramadan in the evening. So the way the Ramadan prayers work is that it's the isha prayer followed immediately by the recitation of the Ramadan things. So when we talk about the Isha prayer and the Ramadan prayers they are one and the same thing from our perspective because it's isha follow immediately followed by the Ramadan prayers. But the number of people you would normally see during that time frame, yeah, is the same numbers I gave you because people will come for Isha, Isha ends and then Ramadan Taravi prayer starts. So it's one and the same.

So you said normally it's 80 to 100 on the weekdays and 150 to 200 Mhm. on the the evenings I'm sorry um weekends. Yeah. And so you're saying similar for Ramadan? No, Ramadan it would be 500. Okay. And going up to a peak of about 850 on a on a few days for that for that particular month prayer time or prayer service. Great. Thank you.

Yeah. So isha and Ramadan are uh in Ramadan. Isha prayer proceeds immediately before the Ramadan prayers. I do have a couple of more questions, but I want to just pause and say if there's another commissioner that has a question, I would like to give an opportunity. Thank you. Um yeah. Um I just wanted to go back to some of the correspondents in the last few days. I think there was an exchange between you and um a member of the neighborhood group and you said, quote, "We've already made 20 plus changes addressing traffic, lighting, and noise and reviewed and responded to each of the 11 items from our closest neighbor." Mhm.

Um that they submitted. And I guess I I think the commission's at a little bit of a disadvantage because we don't see that specific list. And I was wondering if you'd be willing to share the list and if you'd be willing to incorporate those as conditions of approval.

We um we have shared that list as part of our first uh uh uh submission that came in. Uh so if you look at the letter of justification and uh as well as the there is a neighbor feedback uh document that we had submitted all of those were already included uh in uh the original submission and I can point to that thing. Uh I don't have that in front of me. I can look it up and and give that to you if you want. Uh I can I can provide that.

Follow up just because sort of a question for staff then a followup. I just want to make sure that we are catching these items as conditions of approval. And I and I will say that it's not necessarily required of the applicant that they agree that they all do so, but it it could be that they are already they've already been caught in the COAs. I just want to make sure we're not missing anything. Yeah, thank you for the question. So, what the applicant's referring to is exhibit six of the March 25th packet. Um, it's titled neighborhood outreach and starting on page one of exhibit six, there are 20 items that the applicant has listed that were concerns from the neighborhood that they've responded to.

Okay. But their concerns since we've already made 20 plus changes there. That's correct. So I can read I can start reading. So, um, number one, it's titled feedback received, reduce noise from gate track, and then they've responded with their actions that they've done. Um, and they say, "We temporarily removed the gate track to reduce noise, which rendered our commercial grade gate inoperable." And so, they do that for the next 20 of these. Okay. And so I just want to maybe in staff's opinion you could just let us know if there's anything in there that would be appropriate to incorporate as a COA or is it simply just uh issue brought up issue addressed.

I can review it now and get back to the commission. Thank you. Commissioner Stump. I'm sorry, Commissioner Bernett. Go ahead.

Yes. Yeah. Thank you. So I just want to clarify u the parking lot. So after if you could get me both times uh during Ramadan the 30 days and again I've learned so much about your faith that it's very interesting and very nice. So but aside from that so the parking lot so the 30 days of Ramadan um what time and I know you you deal with the sunset of course that changes the hours. What time would the vacant would the parking lot be vacant? uh during Ram after the Ramadan services for the different time steps and then when you don't have Ramadan.

Sure. Uh what we are asking for uh in Ramadan is that we be allowed to use uh the facility till 11:30 p.m. and clear the parking lot uh in the half an hour after that. Okay. So it would be midnight. Be cleared by midnight. That's right. That's the lot closure rule that's included in the draft conditions of approval. And that just to clarify that that would be during the time when sunset is before 7:30 p.m. which would be the case until approximately the year 2041.

Uh because Ramadan keeps moving 11 days and then eventually it'll come back into the uh before the November time frame uh here in about 2041 2042. Then it would be uh that the request is for till midnight for operational operations and then half an hour clearing after that. Then we don't have Ramadan. When would the parking lot be? Uh so during the other 11 months we are requesting 10:30 p.m. operations and half an hour to clear the the parking lot. 11:00 it would be empty by 11:00. That's right. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, Commissioner Stomp.

I have two other questions just about um your services and and basically use. Um how does your Friday prayer service fit into your schedule and and what's the average attendance at a Friday prayer service? Sure. Um I'm not sure I understand the schedule part of that thing. So So the one on 130 1:30 on Friday afternoon.

Yeah. So typically uh the Friday pray uh the Friday is equivalent to the Sunday for the for the Christian faith or the Saturday for the Jewish faith as an example. It's our considered the holy day. The Friday prayer is a required prayer in congregation. Uh you have to pray it in congregation and it's called Juma. Juma is essentially means Friday actually to be honest with you. And it actually replaces the midday prayer, the zohor prayer effectively. And depending on whether it's daylight savings times or daylight regular time, it occurs either at 1:30 or 12:30 here. Uh we typically have three prayers uh up to three prayers in our Saratoga Prospect Center and currently only have one prayer in Los Gatos at 1:30 p.m. Uh the prayer lasts for there's a sermon portion of the prayer which is about 20 25 minutes and then the prayer portion about which is the entire thing is considered uh prayer. Uh it's approximately half an hour long. Uh so it goes from 1:30 to 2 205 or something to that effect. What's your typical Friday attendance for that service?

Typically, uh it's in the order of about 400 and uh 400 to 500 people. Ask and it's about I'm going to just put it in the category of events and I don't know if I've got all of your events properly identified, but you know maybe focusing on weekend events, you know, how many do you host? And as I understand it, it could be a community or charitable event. It could be a festival. It could be a wedding, receptions, maybe rental of your facility under the terms that are in the, you know, under the cup. You know, how how many events would you say you're holding per month um that would fall into that category?

Yeah. Um this is a very important um uh question I think uh um um that I think I would like to answer in the following way. Um if you look at generally congregations any kind of congregations uh they're busy at work they're busy at school and they're busy at other things. So generally what happens is we as a as a uh mosque can really offer any kind of our services usually on the evenings and on the weekends over here. So we try to actually actively one of the things I uh always say is that we want to essentially make sure that there are something or the other that is happening in the mosque every Friday and every Saturday evening on there. So we our from our perspective we would like to have uh actually uh events uh on Fridays and Saturdays on a regular basis. uh and then we of course have Sunday school on on Sunday uh as well as other activities on the sun Sunday end of day. We also currently have a number of other programs that happen uh like for example Tuesday evenings there is a a program called sirat which is for young professionals uh that happens on a every Tuesday uh and then there are other smaller or bigger programs that happen uh on an ongoing basis in in in the evenings and

you definitely definitely have a full schedule. I have two more questions, promise. Um, this one is just about growth. I mean, obviously, I mean, you look at the people that are here, uh, you've got a vibrant, growing community and and so as you take a look at your mosque here in Los, what sort of growth rate are you looking at on an annual basis? Obviously, you've got history from when you started here in 2020, but, you know, 2024, 2025, and so forth. What do you expect to see in the way of growth? Percentage is fine. You know, I don't need to have numbers, but what sort of growth do you see over the, you know, next two to three years?

I I I don't have a particular number in mind to be honest with you. Um, uh, Commissioner Sam, I think generally what happens is that mosques when they become full, uh, they spawn off other mosques, uh, in in in there, which is kind of what has happened across the board. Like I mentioned, I used to be actually president of MCA 25 years ago uh and realized that there's a community that was growing in the West Valley area and founded the the West Valley Muslim Association. So if these mosques get full effectively whenever their capacity gets full, they will spawn off different uh different uh different additional mosques in there. But the at some point we will essentially hit that ceiling and we'll actually have to move uh to make sure that there other things uh get swned off. And I guess you know just a followup to that would be looking at an average daily attendance of 500 people. At what point would you have to you know consider spinning off based on that type of uh attendance daily?

I don't think we have a max in for at the daily level basically right I mean I think the way that I would look at where we would hit the cap is when we can no longer accommodate people for our biggest Ramadan uh activity. So if we are growing and I can tell you that about 8 850 we probably uh are reaching kind of the max it's not quite there 1,200 is of course the fire code max but I think we cannot probably go further than maybe about 900 or 950 or so uh at there so at that point in time we are already maxed out and then they will actually have uh there now I've actually already heard from our congregation that a lot of people are not coming to our mosque because of traffic because of other uh because of all of the concerns around the neighbors and things of that nature on there. So, we're already seeing a movement towards community members potentially talking about finding another location in addition to that, not as a replacement, in addition to that uh the the Los facility.

Thank you for that. And then my my last question. Um, as as we've seen in the documentation, there's been discussion from time to time about what if the neighbors pursue permit parking. That's not our decision here. I'm just saying what if they pursue permit parking and get permit permit parking. I'll say in that neighborhood surrounding your mosque, what what would you do at that point in time from a parking perspective? Um, we we will I mean if that's what the condition is, we of course would not like that, but if that's what the condition is, we'll have to figure out how to accommodate that. Um, on on Sunday, I was driving by Mission College uh there and there was there's a big church there next to it and I can tell you that every surrounding street was filled uh with parking of people that were going in there. Every religious facility that I know of actually has some level of overflow in terms of especially on their holy days that happens. So restricting us in that sense is actually uh you know denying the ability for us to actually practice our faith to the full possible things. We're not asking for for normal days we are for the most part we are actually within our uh within our usage over there. On Fridays there may be some amount of spillover. So one day of the week and then of course Ramadan we are spilling over a little bit during the some of the days and a lot more on couple of days. So I think to en put an enforcement thing in place for a permit parking and so 365 days a year I think is doing a disservice uh to the community and to our ability to practice our faith uh there. Then let me just ask one followup since it's I I guess we would say it's primarily Ramadan that creates the the biggest um congestion and um um you know would you consider voluntarily during

Ramadan looking at alternate parking um accommodations that would not involve on street parking?

We have already done that. Right. Affordable treasures was actually a a exactly for that reason. We wanted to actually work with them and negotiate with them and and talk to them about getting additional parking spots and we'll continue to do that. We'll go talk to Sunb Belt Rentals uh next time around. We'll go talk to some other ones down the street uh for that. Uh what we want to avoid is any kind of uh shuttle or anything like that because that creates essentially an undue burden on us because it adds we have limited time between sunset and and the Ramadan prayers. So that's the reason why we are looking for nearby parking lots where we can actually have uh parking and then uh people allowed to come in. We of course will continue to do that. Yes.

Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Do any of my other commissioners have questions? Seeing none, thank you. I will again close the public portion of the public hearing and ask again of my fellow commissioners. Are there any questions of staff or does anyone want to venture a motion? Commissioner St.

of course me. Um I'd like to ask three questions about the cup u the draft. Um I'm speaking specifically to uh number 13 noise mitigation and let me give you a chance to locate it. Do do you have it? Great. Thank you. Um, can you clarify what the first paragraph means? Amplified outdoor sound, which would be in violation of town code is prohibited unless blah blah blah. Does that mean no outdoor amplification? because it's not really that clear in this statement.

So, it's referring back to sections uh 16.20.015, which is the noise ordinance of the town. And so, it would be directing staff to review that section regarding amplify amplified outdoor sound, which I can look up right now unless the town attorney 16.20.015 015.

I guess what I would probably add right at this point is that in the response we received from WVMA today, they're they are interpreting it as no amplified outdoor sound. I just want so I'm trying to figure out are we clear on amplified sound? And their interpretation of it is no outdoor amplified sound. Could I ask a question of public works while Miss Chman and Mr. Mullins look up that answer? I noticed in some of the uh information that we received there were some again some questions regarding um fire safety emergency vehicle access and I just would like if you could again um share the interactions that you did have with the police and fire regarding this application.

Good evening commissioners. Mike Vman, town traffic engineer that thank you for the question. Uh we did not interact with police but we asked fire to go out and to assess the Farley Road between Flint Ridge and Los Scouse Boulevard. They confirmed that they have no access issues. They con they agreed that there are a few pitch points but overall the street width is 36 feet or better in uh most of the locations and uh there's no problem with two two uh uh parking on both sides of the street and there's no concerns with access or emergency access and staff did go out and follow up and take additional measurements uh and confirmed the the pinch points as was noted by uh by some of the neighborhood the neighborhood collos and there are pinch points, but those weren't a concern to fire and and for the most part, the street is 36 ft or more in width.

All right. Thank you very much. You're welcome. There any other questions for perhaps parks and public works while All right, then we will wait. through the chair. Just for a point of clarification, are you commissioner? Are you asking if there's ample information in the town code to determine what amplified sound is?

No, it's just um whether amplified outdoor sound can be used. Period. outdoor sound. And again, as I said, I'm I'm I'm referring to the memo sent in by uh West Valley Muslim Association today that basically in the right hand column stated no amplified outdoor sound. So, I just want to make sure we're on the same page with them. And I'll jump in um just just anecdotally um they may have looked at if they use amplified sound, they wouldn't be able to turn it up loud enough to be effective without exceeding the noise ordinance could be an op a potential issue that they're raising. Um I read it as, you know, you potentially could have amplified sound, but you've got to comply with the noise ordinance. Um so there just may be a practicality perspective. Um, but I haven't had that conversation with them.

I assume that we could make it a condition of approval that there be no amplified sound used outdoors. Yeah, defer to the town attorney on that.

Thank you. My my final question here was on uh number 22, deliveries. It says deliveries by vehicles exceeding 26,000 pounds, I'm not sure how big a truck it is, but it sounds pretty big to me, shall occur between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday. Um, my question is why that many days or you know weekend and that that time frame 8 am to 8:00 PM was that a request or is that just something we're providing on kind of a standard basis? I can start and others can jump in, but um I don't believe it was a request. Um and I think the Monday through Saturday may coincide with typical residential deliveries if you think about FedEx, Amazon, and other carriers typically don't operate on Sundays.

Not. But how big is a 26,000 gross vehicle weight rated? I I can try and look up something. I mean, it just it seems like it would be like a 24 foot truck or something like that. So, I was just trying to understand what's being allowed here and why it's being allowed because it seems like potentially a pretty big vehicle going down uh Farley Road uh 6 days a week, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. And the other thing is it may not be that big a deal. they may not have trucks coming to their property that are that size and have those kinds of deliveries. But

so just based on a quick view, um that's about the maximum size truck that you could rent without having a a class A license. So any of us could rent that. Um it's the size of a large uh rider truck, single single axle, single rear rear axle. All right. Thank you. As it is nearly 8:00, we are going to take a brief break and then we will come back for further discussions. Thank you.

All right, thank you everybody. Um, we are now back in session. Um, I believe we were pending a response to a question or do we have that response finalized, Miss Shman?

Yeah, thank you for that. So, in exhibit six, um, the applicant listed 20 concerns that they'd heard from the neighborhood and then they've responded to each of those and some of them, you know, staff was able to incorporate conditions of approval to address, others staff did not. So, I can kind of get into the ones where there were conditions of approval that were not included. Um, the first being uh the request to refinish the parking lot to reduce noise. There was not a condition of approval to address this. Uh, the next was changing the gardener timings to avoid evenings and weekends. So, there's not a condition of approval specific to uh the frequency of a gardener. The next was removing the right turn only sign on the exit driveway. There is not a condition of approval addressing this. The next was implementing a shuttle during Ramadan. There is not a condition of approval regarding this. Uh parking away from neighbors fences when possible. Um again, not a condition specific to this. using the Saratoga Prospect Center instead of the Farley Road facility and then finally providing advanced notice of special events. So those specifically staff uh did not incorporate conditions of approval and response to

any further questions to staff. Um, so I guess in hindsight or I guess just revisiting those items, um, would it be approp is there any particular reason I can see how in some cases it was appropriate not to include as a condition of approval, but some of them are pretty simple like the refinishing of the parking lot. I don't know if that's something we could leave as a private commitment between the two parties or whether we want to add as COA. I don't

So I can start with the refinishing the parking. Um staff did look at that, but typically when you include it as a condition, you're going to include a time that it needs to be completed by and so staff, you know, wasn't able to come up with a specific time. And so it's certainly a conversation that the commission could have this evening. As a followup to that, um we were told that there was a plan in the future to rework part of that parking lot. Would it be acceptable to state as part of that future project all of the parking and drive aisles are repaired? Uh, yes. That's legally defensible.

All right. Any other questions of staff?

Commissioner Bernett. Thank you. So, I had a follow-up question on the noise mitigation number 13. We only had one uh town code section 16.20.015, didn't it? Uh why did we not add in 16.20.010 and 16.20.030 would those um could those be part of I mean because that would address other noise. Yeah, we always debate what code sections to specify that people have to comply with because really they have to comply with all town code sections. Um, and so I think we did talk about referencing the noise ordinance as a whole. Um, and so that that could be done. We opted against it, but it could be done. Um, and then I just wanted to follow up on the question about the interpretation of the first sentence. And so right now it reads, "Amplified outdoor sound, which would be in violation of town code section 16.20.015, is prohibited unless specifically authorized by the community development director." And so that is not prohibiting amplified sound altogether. It's saying amplified sound that exceeds the town's decibel limits is prohibited.

Thank you. But again, as a followup to that, if the commission felt inclined, there could be an additional statement added to that condition just stating that no amplified noise is allowed on site. Um, yes. And it would be important to put facts into the record explaining how it's not a substantial burden um and how it uh serves a compelling interest and that it's the least restrictive means of serving that interest. So basically what problem is being solved and that it's the best way to solve that problem. Okay. Because ultimately the noise ordinance solves the problem then if I understand this correctly or

although we uh I don't believe we have a noise ordinance section that prohibits amplified sound altogether and so if the commission is interested in adding that as a condition I would recommend that it be a standalone condition.

Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions of staff right now or does anyone want to venture a motion? Right, Vice Chair Barnett? It's okay. I It's probably a lot, so take a moment to get your thoughts together. A little lengthy, but bear with me. Uh, this motion relates to item three on tonight's agenda, which is a request to modify an existing conditional use permit for expanded operations for religious institution, West Valley Muslim Association on property zoned R18, located at 16769 Farley Road, APN 42421062. I move to approve the draft resolution exhibit two of the original staff report at pages 23 to 26 which includes the required findings to grant the request to modify the existing use permit for extended hours of operation including uh the findings required for squa for compliance with the zoning regulations and for those required for conditional use permit. Approval of this resolution constitutes approval of the application subject to the conditions found in attachment A at pages 27 to 31 of the staff report. I note that this is the recommendation of staff. Additionally, I move the following conditions of approval and modifications be added. One, that the applicant provide off-site parking during Ramadan. Two, that condition 17 concerning the driveway operation be amended by adding that the applicant may remove the right turn only sign at the exit driveway. Three, that the applicant provide contact information for multiple board members and staff at all times and

explore setting up a single phone number that routes uh all of them to neighbors inquiries, comments, and complaints. Uh the contact information shall be posted on the applicant's website. Four, the applicant shall submit its application for the parking lot expansion it references in the st staff report within six months and complete construction within one year. The parking improvements shall add at least 23 new parking spaces. Additionally, within 6 months, the parking lot shall be repaired so that cracks, bumps, or other anomalies do not contribute to noise generation during the passing of vehicles, and that thereafter the parking lot shall continue to be maintained to avoid conditions resulting in such noise generation. Five. Um that the applicant shall within one year complete its application process to construct a door for the purpose of allowing pedestrian ingress and egress uh without walking through the parking lot and complete such con such construction within that year. Uh six, that the condition uh F-21 be amended to require notice that the specified calendar provide at least 60 days notice in in advance of events and activities rather than one month. Seven, that the applicant shall submit to staff within 6 months an application for a fence height exemption for the purpose of adding two feet to the height of the fences around the perimeter of the property for the purposes of mitigating noise and light pollution. Eight. Additionally, the application the applicant, excuse me, shall plant a hedge row adjacent to all of its perimeter fences or alternatively plant a variety of native trees and shrubs for the purpose of sound and light mitigation. Additionally, the specific plants and their box size at the time of planning shall be based on discussions between the applicant's representative

and staff. The object of these plantings uh the objective of these plantings is that they be maintained at a height of 8 ft. Nine, that only the interior of the lot be used for food vendors. 10, compliance with the conditions of approval shall be annually reviewed by the planning commission. 11. that staff request county fire to confirm the occupancy limit for the mosque and evaluate whether its present and proposed uses as described in the application uh in the staff report and during the hearings on this application is or is not in compliance with the occupancy limit. And further that staff request county fire to provide a written report concerning traffic safety on Farley and the surrounding streets during Ramadan observances. 12. that the applicant provide a written notice to the congregants in the window of 5 to 10 days prior to events anticipated to draw 100 or more persons reminding them of the speed limit on Farley and neighboring streets and of the recommendation for car pulling and to avoid speaking or otherwise generating noise while using the public street for ingress and egress. Um, car beeps from locking and unlocking doors are exempted as are the opening and closing of car doors. Additionally, activities uh that may be related to funerals are exempted from the requirement of notice to the congregants under this condition. 13. that the applicant shall request that the Lascata's monitor uh uh police department provide increased patrols during Ramadan and it post an electric sign on Farley Road during Ramadan uh showing the speed limit. Uh 14 that there be no amplified u sound outside the uh buildings constituting the

mosque. Uh fifing that uh deliveries be limited to Monday through Friday 8:00 am to 6 pm. Uh 17 that the noise ordinances of the town of Loscatos are specifically adopted as conditions in the cup. Uh and as a request and not a condition that the applicant considered the use of the portable planting beds and screens as proposed by Mr. Zan Zatran in his letter of April 20th which was delivered or distributed by staff yesterday. My motion is uh based on full consideration of the staff report including all supplements and which includes the report and letter from Salter and Associates. My motion is further based on consideration of all of the oral testimony that has been presented in these chambers. Um my proposed uh condition that notice of events be provided to the neighbor 60 days in advance is to provide them the opportunity to plan their personal activities which could be affected given limited street parking and possible noise generation. My proposed condition requiring annual review of the cup compliance is based on the unique situation presented here where residential community is located directly adjacent to the mosque and that the size of the congregation has expanded greatly over the years. My motion is further based on the town's attorney attorney's explanation that the conditions of approval in the staff report uh were vetted by outside counsel. Also, I find that the opinion of the town attorney and of the applicant's legal counsel regarding the applicability of the SQA exemption to be persuasive. And I wish to note that a number of the suggestions by the neighbors have are

already addressed in the town code and that there was no need to uh add those. And uh finally we need to make the findings regarding no amplified noise. And I would say again the consideration there is the proximity of the mosque uh to the residences uh and their need for quiet enjoyment of their home. And I would also note that the applicant indicated that that is I believe not something that they do anyway. And um finally um my motion is based on the consideration of the legal consequences of Rupia violation uh that must be carefully considered. So that's my motion. Thank you, Chair Burge.

So I will second the motion, but I would like to ask a couple amendments to the motion if I may. Um um I don't know if um condition approval number 17 is the correct one for this, but as far as um vehicle traffic and driveway operations, I would like to as part of the um traffic plan put together specifically for high volume events that consideration be made to ensure that ingress and egress of neighboring driveways is considered and people are allowed to ingress an egress of their homes. Um, I would like to know if on number eight of yours, I would like to specify that um the um shrubs or hedges are 3 gallons or larger to ensure that initial plantings are large and that the plants selected grow 2 to four feet per year. Um I Oh, and then as far as on condition of approval number 20, I would specifically like to make sure that we address the property directly across from the facility and that e that the applicant work with that neighbor specifically to either provide plantings or movable planting barriers or something to reduce headlight intrusion into their home. Is that acceptable to the maker of the motion?

Absolutely. Thank you for adding those.

In addition, fellow commissioners, I thought what might be the most prudent now would be to start going through the conditions of approval. Um, and I'm just going to start at the beginning and move down and ask with each one if there are comments, questions, or any proposed additions that would be made to the motion. Is that acceptable to my fellow commissioners? All right. Um condition general condition number one approval and substantial conformance. Are there any comments? Number two expiration. Number three lapse for discontinuence. Number four compliance memorandum. Number five, interpretation and implementation. Number six, town indemnity. Section B. Number seven, permitted use. Number eight, living quarters. Number nine, occupancy limits. Section C, 10, general hours. Number 11, seasonal late hours exception. Number 12, windows and doors.

Number 13, noise mitigation with the additional comments. I'm sorry, Commissioner Stump. Yeah, just a quick check with the motion maker. I think that I heard um no amplified outdoor sound in your motion. Thank you. Correct, Commissioner Bernett. Yes. And I would like also the other two uh noise ordinances added in specific specifically written into the condition. I'd like all three addressed. All right. So, but I incorporated the noise ordinance. He did. He he incorporated the noise ordinance into this. That is one of his conditions. I just want to make sure they were all covered. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for clarifying.

Um, yeah. Anything else on number 13, noise mitigation, Commissioner Stump?

Um, I would like to recommend during the quiet hours, which encompasses two of the prayer services that there be, um, attendance ceilings for those particular times. Um something that would look like during general hours the fajger prayer service would be 75 participants on the weekdays 125 on the weekends for Issa 125 on a weekday 250 on a weekend and then seasonal late hours fajir prayer service 175 and obviously for this is during Ramadan the Issa service maximum occupancy um for their facility.

The maker of the motion, is that an acceptable addition? Inclined against you, but I'd like to ask the town attorney if that would be consistent with federal law.

Um, so any condition that we add, we'll have to pass that three-part test. And so the first question will be, does it pose a substantial burden? And um in my opinion based on the testimony that that's the present number of attendees, I don't believe it would constitute a substantial burden. Um and then if a court were to find that it was a substantial burden, uh the town will need to explain what the compelling interest is that's being served. Um and then we'll need to explain why that's the least restrictive means of serving that interest. Um and so it might be good for the commission to have a discussion on the what interest is served by limiting the number of attendees.

Okay. I would take that advisement. So do you want to discuss in what your thought process is and what that is mitigating? Well, the thought process is just being sensitive one to the neighbors in these quiet hours and what volume of people are going to be in that part, you know, traversing to and from um the mosque at those periods of time. The figures that they gave, you know, I increased them by probably 25% both weekdays, weekends to give a buffer. Um, you know, the number may not be perfect and maybe it's something there could be further discussion about as the staff finalizes the um the final final draft for us, but um those numbers I I specifically asked about tonight and then like I said added about 25% um to um the number.

Vice Chair. Yes. So, I'm not prepared to adopt that and uh presumably we could vote separately on it if the maker of the motion does not wish to adopt that. Um, and remind me, did the original motion have a second? And that's what's under discussion right now. Correct. And and so Commissioner Stump was proposing an amendment and the maker of the motion was not open to that and so the discussion of the original motion can continue. Right. Thank you. So then the amendment is not accepted by the maker of the motion. Correct. All right. Anything further on

I mean I should also say Commissioner Stump does have the ability to propose an alternative motion. Understood. And there can be up to three motions under consideration at any time. Understood. Understood. Um anything further on noise mitigation? All right. Number 14, lot closure rule. Section D, 15, monthly communication. Commissioner Stump.

Sorry, I missed this. Under noise lighting, which I didn't expect lighting to be under noise. Um, but it I would like to see that we're talking about full cut off downward directed motion activated. uh because those parking lots, excuse me, those lights do stay on all night in a dim mode. However, if they are motion activated, it still will provide the mosque with the security they desire because if someone walks through that parking lot or enters the property, the lights would come on. So I'm asking that uh motion activated be added to the

like to add ask a quick question then first parks and public works because it is my understanding that the California building code requires that there be a minimum foot candle level on at all times during dark hours. Is that correct? Well I I can't speak to the that code. You probably know it better than I do. I will note that um if that's the case the town's lights out front do something similar where there's a dim mode and then as you approach them with motion they come to full on. Okay. Um so it's certainly the technologies out there. I'm just not sure about the building code requirements for candle light

candle foot. I would I would actually say what you're doing actually meets the code minimum and and the motion sensor brightens it more is obviously they have to meet code no matter what would that a note more saying that they are at a dim level and then anything more is based on a motion sensor or how would you like to word that? Well, I guess I would certainly follow the code. I mean, if the code requires lights to remain on, but u a big concern of the neighbors, understandably lights, even in the dim mode, are are still going to um come into their sphere, at least for the 13 people that share property lines with them. Understood.

Thank you. Um perhaps we could more craft something stating that um lights during the night will be at the code minimum level to ensure that there's no brighter allowed during the night. Would that be acceptable to the maker of the motion? Absolutely. I find Okay. All right. Um I was I think on 16. Um no 15. Was there anything on monthly communication? All right. 16. Parking lot monitoring. Commissioner stop.

Yeah. One area of concern um and it just depends if there um is literally off-site parking during Ramadan. It reduces a lot of the issues. But um it's it's really important that we either have um professional people that are doing traffic management out there or specific training for volunteers. um not ju you know because it can be a dangerous situation out there for all concerned and so I would be asking that parking attendants will be hired or will be trained volunteers to ensure adequate knowledge and safety. Um, and same thing with the folks that are doing traffic monitoring that they be either hired or they be trained.

That acceptable to the maker of the motion? Well, uh, no, because I spent a lot of time researching this issue and the police department would be the only resource to do that and I if they're willing to do it, fine. But I have my severe doubts about that. And there's no other uh private local safety service that can do that. There's only certification for school traffic monitors. Uh so I guess there's no harm in saying training by the police, but I think it's might be impossible to comply with a more general statement of of training. I don't think it's out there and I really wanted to find it.

Yeah. At minimum, I would ask that we put in training by the police. At least at least we're identifying it as an issue. Thanks. I would agree to training by the police if available. Yeah, obviously it's going to be up to the police, but I do think we should encourage the training and I agree with that addition. Commissioner Bernett, can I have a question for the chair? Um, we will we will be able to add additional conditions. Yes. Yeah. I just wanted to take the opportunity now to go through these and then I have an assumption that there's a few people that may have additions. Okay. Okay. Thank you for clarification. All right. Um number 17, driveway operations.

Okay. Number 18, event parking overflow plan. Miss Wayland. Um I did hear chairperson Burch mention um consider ingress and egress in relation to condition number 17. Yes. Um and so if the commission is going to add a com condition, it should be in order to be enforceable, it should have it should be very specific about what's required. And so, you know, we don't have to solve that problem right now, but at some point when we finally prepare the condition, um there should be some discussion of what needs to happen with regards to ingress and egress.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. Um number 18, event parking overflow plan. All right. Section E, facilities and site design. Number 19, electric gate. Commissioner Stone, I don't know if this is a big deal, but you know, obviously the electric gate has been an issue, and I I know we've used the word reducing, sound reducing, but it really should be a sound dampening that is um employed in whatever gate replacement goes on.

Is that acceptable? I'm actually just thinking about the um meaning of dampening versus reducing but so okay. Is that acceptable? Yes. Thank you. All right. That is acceptable to me also. Number 20, landscape plantings. Commissioner Stump,

I agree with everything that's been put forward, but one of the challenges we heard from at least one neighbor that's on fence line is that because of the condition of the fence, when headlights come on, they do go through and it'll take quite a while for shrubs to take care of that. So, a couple of options that we would look to um obscure the um headlights with a privacy mesh or windcreen. Uh and then today we did receive a very unique proposal from a member of the mosque that showed a planter with effectively the same material I'm talking about like a windcreen that would obscure lights from going through and they could actually just be rolled into place. So, um either one of those options until shrubbery or other um other um actions will remove headlights from going through uh penetrating fencing into neighbors yards.

Is that acceptable to the maker of the motion? Yeah, I think it's a good idea to uh look into screening or some other way of um of addressing that mitigating the headlight issue uh pending the growth of the plants.

Yeah, that is acceptable to me too. Was there I wasn't sure. Commissioner Bernett, did you have your hand raised for number 20, landscape and planning or maybe not? All right. All right. On to section F, community interface, activity calendar and community interface. Any comments number 22, deliveries. Obviously, there was a modification made by the maker of the motion. Are there any comments? Right. 23. Compliance review. All right. Section G, other conditions. Number 24, high attendance guidelines, and 25, compliance with laws. All right, that gets us through the staff's recommended conditions of approvals with obviously the modifications made by the maker of the motion and the seconder of the motion. Are there additional comments or additions? Commissioner Stump,

I would look to like to put forward a second motion and it would be the same motion with amendments that Commissioner Barnett has put forward, but with the prayer service maximum attendance guidelines that I proposed for both their general hours and their seasonal late hours.

Is there a second? Commissioner Bernett, is there any discussion? So again, I would like as we look at these, I just want to be very clear. Could you please remind us again as we make a motion like that that starts limiting attendance what the criteria is so that we can discuss this properly?

Yes. Um so the first question will be does it impose a substantial burden on the congregation's ability to worship and then if it does um the second question is what compelling government interest is being served and then the third is is the town imposing the least restrictive means to accomplish that interest. I have a question.

And then I also I have other things that the commission should think about. Um there's also a provision providing that the town can't treat a religious institution on less favorable terms than a non-religious institution. That's called the equal terms provision. And then the town um can't discriminate amongst uh different faiths. Um but it it is fair to articulate reasons why um these particular conditions are needed at this location. Can I ask a question about the second one about the compelling government interest

those objective or subjective standards and how do we determine that? um they can be subjective because uh one of the parties submitted um a case where the Ninth Circuit did hold that neighborhood preservation was a compelling government interest. Okay. Honestly, I had not asked to call a vote on the first one. So, okay. I interpreted Commissioner Stump's motion as an amendment to that first motion. It was not. is actually making a second motion and adding and adding that put three motions on the table at the same time. Yes, you can have

My question is if there's not a third now which I'm going to ask do we just go one at a time and do vote? Yes. Okay. All right. Is there further discussion about the motion? Commissioner Bernett? Yes. I have further comments and additions to the motion. Um, I assume that that is going to be a request to both makers of the motions since essentially Mr. Stumps is incor, not the first motion. So, it sounds like uh, Commissioner Bernett's interested in proposing a third motion. No. Okay. I would like to discuss the motion made by Commissioner Stump.

Okay. And are you asking for if the maker of the motion's open to amendments? Open to discussion on that. The reason I'm asking is Mr. Stump's motion was incorporating Vice Chair Barnett's motion only with the addition of the limitations. So I assume if she's going to ask for additions, I need both makers of the motion to agree to those.

That's correct. Okay. So what I would consider is I would be and I don't I don't feel there is a substantial burden that would be um placed on the mosque um and I have reasons for that and I can go into that. I feel that there should be a limit to the amount of attendees uh limited to the amount of the parking available because we are peacemealing this all together. lights, fences, gates, noise. The overarching issue here is the traffic. And I know we're talking about hours, but because our CUP, you have to have findings that there's no safety issues and no health issues. And after looking at all the evidence documentations and myself actually visiting the last night of Ramadan and seeing the traffic and the issues there, I feel safety and health, early morning sleep deprivation, our cup uh addresses those and those would be a big concern in this. And if I could move forward and say why I think there this would not be a substantial burden, I can do that.

Please. No. No. Please share as much as you can so that we can determine. Let's say there's several prominent Islamic centers in the immediate area region that operate successful Yamuha only which is the Friday prayer without offering the five congress congressional prayers like the Saratoga Prospect Center, the Peninsula Muslim Association. Um, in addition, the Muslim Community Association in Santa Clara and the South Bay Islamic Association on Harris at Way and San Jose are designed specifically to handle the traffic, parking, infrastructure required for the five daily congressional prayers and late night services. These regional facilities are situated in a non-residentidential zone that are better equipped for high volume transitions, whereas Farley Road uh is a very narrow residential street and lacks the necessary infrastructure. And I might say most attendees at the mosque, our our Lascatus mosque, are not Lascatus residents, but travel from uh from other places. So this would not be an inconvenience to them because they would be traveling to Lascatus. They would be traveling to these other places that are more uh appropriate I think. Um and so I cannot make the required findings in our cup. I find based on extensive material presented um you know attendees their uh questions that are answered um again by my own observation of the late night at Ramadan where there was speeding and single drivers coming down Lasard turning very quickly onto Farley on a very dark street. Um it I felt it was very unsafe and uh also interestingly enough on February 26,

2026 uh the direct admission from the West Valley Muslim Association here in Lascatus, the faculty um uh admitted that they were operating under unsafe conditions. Um and uh relating their key concerns about admitted danger. The applicant has explicitly acknowledged that the lack of pedestrian access is unsafe for everyone. There was traffic hazards. The bottleneck described recreates significant safety risk for vehicles entering and exiting the property impacting public streets. And then there's fire and light safety. A site that lacks dedicated pedestrian egress and an ingress uh and forces foot traffic into an active vehicle lanes poses a severe risk for emergency evacuations and first responders and that comes from uh the pre-application record. So for those reasons um I think the whole thing can be solved by limiting the attendees by how much the parking lot can hold. you don't have foot traffic, you don't have traffic uh along the street. Um and it actually solves all the questions. Now, if you add more spaces and you can have on-site other site parking, you know, that could always be other conditions added to the the conditions of approval. But peacemealing it all together, trying to do lights, fences, gates. I mean, you know, you have to maybe because I'm a nurse and you have to look at the overall health here and try and solve solve the problem in one medication.

May I ask one clarifying question? Is it limited to parking on site or would that also include parking leases such as affordable treasures? I would I would say that that could be part um that could be added in as so if there is an a parking lease nearby that would be acceptable. I think that that would be and I think we could add you know maybe a few other things into the conditions but for overall I think our objective is to try and solve the problem.

Okay. Um, is there a discussion or Hold on really quickly. Did you have a clarifying question that you wanted to ask to help you with this? I did want to um I didn't pick up all of Commissioner Stump's um the wording associated with the attendance limit if you could restate it if you wouldn't mind. Please. They are related to me. So it I would like that clarified because I believe that she was adding on to your motion. So for somebody else to agree to that well theoretically. So to me these are tied. So please clarify and then I'll ask the question.

Yeah. The the what I stated was this was you could call it prayer service maximum attendance and during general hours that would be 11 months of the year. During the fajer prayer service, it would be limited to 75 participants weekdays, 125 on the weekends. For the issa prayer service, again during 11 months of the year, 125 during the week, 250 on the weekend. And again, I I grossed these up by about 25% over the numbers that were shared uh to to account for growth. uh in the seasonal late hours fajer prayer service would be limited to 175 participants. So that's been boosted up and above uh for the 11 months of the year and then obviously for the Issa uh Terrari prayer service um their maximum occupancy. So it's there's really not much to state there. Whatever their maximum occupancy is they're they're hitting that right now.

Right. Thank you. So now that we do have an addendum to the motion and because this is a bit of a layered situation, I will ask Vice Chair Bernett first. Is that an acceptable amendment to the motion? Commissioner Bernett's Yes. proposal. I'm I'm afraid I got lost with the additional information that was provided, but I did have a question for her regarding how she has uh the information regarding the residences of the mosque. I'm sorry. The residences of the mosque. Yeah. You said the majority of the mosque congregants were not from Losas.

Oh, I did a I did a summary when um there was a list of the members and I counted uh the members from Lascatus and there were far fewer I think it was 25% of the overall number that responded. And if I can try I'm going to try to summarize and you correct me. I believe what Commissioner Bernett was saying is that she was going to limit the number of attendees to the available parking both onsite and via a parking lease. That's acceptable to me. All right. Maker of the motion.

Okay. Which by then Commissioner Stump defaults since you were building off of. So if that is something that we want to have incorporated, that needs to be developed into a third motion. My my sense is that we're, you know, it's already complicated and and we're making it more complicated. So um I would prefer to stay with the the what I've put forward as a motion as far as the m you know maximum numbers, morning quiet hours, evening quiet hours. All right. All right. Any further discussion of the two motions? Commissioner Stump was first and then vice chair. And I just want to make sure

I'd like again you might say why am I doing this? I submitted two items that came out as desk items today. And if you look everything's dated April 22nd obviously, but look for exhibits 30 3132. It says exhibit 32 includes commissioner comments. That would be me. So, if I could have you go there, it would be helpful. Um, and unfortunately, there aren't any page numbers on here, but it looks it's this one here with the yellow highlight. It's two. It's some tables.

So, first to my fellow commissioners, does everybody have a copy of this? It was in um item number three, desk item. Yeah. Go to the table.

Well, I want to make sure they actually have this in front of them. Perfect. Um, as as we've taken a look at this and trying to understand the the impacts to the Farley Road uh neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods, um, obviously just did a comparison between uh the use today versus prior uses. And I'm just going to highlight a couple things here. As you can see, services per week. The West Valley Muslim Association, 35 services a week. Uh Kingdom Hall, Jehovah's Witness, 2. The First Baptist Church, three hours of operation per month. Uh for uh general hours, 540 hours per month. Seasonal late hours 570 hours per month. Kingdom Hall, Jehovah's Witness 24 hours a month. And First Baptist Church 44. So when we hear the neighbors talk about impact um this this is why you know they they see this tremendous increase in activity and then if you look down below look at average weekly attendance and an estimated number of cars per month the yellow columns average weekly attendance 3500 during Ramadan and this estimate may be high but it's higher during Ramadan obviously uh 5600 uh kingdom hall was 350 a week First Baptist Church 600 a week. Uh estimated number of cars uh per month. Um for general hours 5,000 uh for Ramadan 8,000. Kingdom Hall 468 First Baptist Church 800 volume significantly different. The second page all I'm going to do is is just I because I was asking about growth because let's face it, we're trying to deal with a

real volume issue. traffic flow parking right now. And again, as I say, and I mean this as a compliment, this is a vibrant community. They're going to grow until, as as Rozie said, they can grow no more because they're just going to outgrow that facility. It will be somewhat self-capping. But when you take a look at these numbers in growth, and I'm looking at average monthly attendance and estimated cars per month, um just in general hours growth between 5 to 15% would mean 750 to an additional 2,250 in attendance per month. During the seasonal late hours, 1,200 to 3600 additional attendees. and the estimated number of cars per month um 250 to 750 during the general hours 400 to,200 during Ramadan. And so uh that's why it's so important that we try and address this now because it's going to continue um to grow. You know, it's going to continue to grow. So that's why I was trying to put something in that would meter um and be a realistic attendance number for this before sunrise services and the evening services. Thank you.

I have a quick question for the town attorney if I may. Um, I just want to clarify based on how we are supposed to be deliberating um that we are we making the decision today based on the potential impact of this application to previous religious organizations, how they function in the space or based on the current CUP in place. Um, it should be impacts of the current activity on the neighborhood. Um, I understood the commissioner's comments to be talking about because there is the non-discrimination provision in Raulupa and I understood his comments to be talking about why there are differences between the different denominations and why there might be a need for added conditions for some denominations.

Okay, thank you for that clarification. All right, Vice Chair Brent, I guess for Miss Schuman or other members of the staff, has the town imposed, um, congregation limits on any other religious institution in the town. And following that, um, town attorney's comment regarding the non-discrimination requirement or under Rupia.

Thank you for the question. I'll start and other staff may want to jump in. Uh there are other religious institutions in the town with conditions of approval that are related to the number of seats since that's the way that the town looks at this type of use for parking. It's related to the number of seats. So there are certainly some cups that list a maximum seat capacity because it's related to their on-site parking. And was there a followup to that that you had to the town attorney or

Well, yeah. It's I would be I'd be interested in the town attorney's comment regarding the legality of limiting attendance at a religious institution when the actual attendance is not restricted for other religious institutions in town. I understand the seating issue but there could be standing for example. Um probably the most conservative course of action would be to limit um attendees to the available parking. But you know on the other hand there's an argument to be made that um there are impacts in the early morning hours and there might be you know disturbances due to the amount of traffic in the early morning hours. that Commissioner St. By the way, I would be willing to make that change that was just suggested. That would be the capacity of the parking lot instead of trying to tie it to attendees participants.

Tenatively, how would that be phrased? And similar to what Commissioner Bernett was just saying, does that become limited to the available parking on site or parking on site along with legal parking leases? All of it's about trying to count it and figure it out ultimately, right? But um I would say limited to parking on site attorney. I think that provides them greater flexibility as well.

How does that equate to a headcount? Well, if we go with kind of the average number of people that are in a car, that would mean they could have up to um 180 times three. Figuring three people per car. I don't think in practice it's probably that high, but you know, could be 3 * 180, 2 * 180. So to cl to clarify for to the attorney, would that be a modification to his own motion or is that a different motion? Is he cancing his first motion? Let me Yeah, please do. I

what I want when I come back to I'm trying to do something that would be supportable that's logical and again I can by the way we can wave off my page two on growth but what you see on page one is today you know what I shared that's the reality of what's going on and and so the neighborhood is impacted and so how do we give some relief to the neighborhood at the same time being fair and allowing the mosque to observe their religious requirements, traditions, etc. That's that's the rub here. So, I'm happy to stay with the numbers I provided because I think the numbers are fair. Um, of course, that's that's according to me just Mr. Math. Uh, or capping it somehow, right? That it's it's it's giving the residents something more certain about the activity that's going to be there in the early morning hours and in the late evening. So

I you know honestly I think either one either method is is most likely defensible because other congregations don't have the early morning services and the late morning late evening services year round. Um, I do think it's important to accommodate the the present number of attendees for the Ramadan services. And so, if the commission does decide to go with the parking measurement, um, I would recommend including off-site leased um, parking areas as well. You would say to include off-site parking as well

in the count for Ramadan. Um because we the commission briefly discussed limiting the number of attendees to the amount of available parking. Um and in order to accommodate the present number of Ramadan attendees, off-site parking would be required.

So then if I understand it right, it would be um the general schedule could stay to the maximum capacity of the parking lot. no off-site parking, but for Ramadan, we would recognize off-site parking in parking lots on Lascats Boulevard as acceptable. Is that what you're saying? Um, I think that's defensible and it's it's up to the commission's decision. Okay. So, um, I guess can I go ahead and try and restate at this point in time,

please? Um, I have more paper.

It's a lot. It's a lot. So then if we go back to prayer service maximum attendance for general hours the fajer prayer service will be limited to 180 180 cars and participants. So it it will be limited to on-site parking. Isha during general hours will be limited to on-site parking. seasonal late hours. Fajure prayer service um on-site parking and off-site parking. Same with ISha and Tawari uh prayer service. Uh obviously we've already said max occupancy with uh obviously access to off-site parking. I just want to make sure with the town attorney that reads because just stating parking to me doesn't have a number of people to it. So, I just want to check if you're not concerned about that, then you're just limiting parking and cars. I just want to clarify that if that's what you mean.

Yeah. The way I interpret it is under the current scenario, I believe there's 180 spaces and the the town code um anticipates or they measure they say four occupants per vehicle. So, it' be four times 180. Um, and then if the parking lot were to be expanded to 230, it would be four times 230. Is that change amendable to the second of the motion? All right. Is there any discussion among the commission on either motions? Commissioner Sordy, just real quick, did we want to clarify leasable offsite so that we have some way to document that to

that's what it was. you had leasable offsite included. Uh just to clarify, the off-site parking as it relates to this motion would be documented. So the planning manager just asked me the very same question. Um and so I by offsite I meant leased parking. And Commissioner Barnett, did you not in your motion include no on street parking during Ramadan that it would be off-site parking?

The intent of my motion was to uh did not have any limitations on uh the building other than verification of the occupancy limits. I thought I never I I never included a congrent limit. No, but I thought you spoke to off-site parking during Ramadan. Yeah. As a requirement, the the first condition was that there be um the applicant provide off-site parking during Ramadan in in instead of on street parking, it would be off streetet off-site.

He did not state. He did not me mean to limit it. He did not state in lie of street parking. He just stated that they would need to find leased parking also during Ramadan. I assume in an effort to reduce the number of cars on the street, but he did not say no parking on the street. Mr. Mullins, am I okay? That was my understanding.

Okay. I might I might add that we need to consider um walk-ins and drop offs as long as we're meeting the occupancy limit of the building. It seems to me that we can't tie people to the parking spaces in the parking lot and as was mentioned um you know in in every large uh congregation there's going to be street parking to to me you know my I do agree that there's a tremendous problem with the volume of cars that are involved here uh and I've really struggled with that because I think the neighbors have um genuine concerns, objective concerns, but I'm very much concerned that we not violate federal law by imposing restrictions that are unreasonable. In in my point, from my perspective, it's unreasonable to limit the number of um occupants beyond the occupancy restriction. In other words, tying it to parking may be less than the occupancy restriction,

but but practically more than what their expected attendance is. So, I think there's a big buffer in there for this to be workable for the mosque. Commissioner Bernett,

I just want to clarify. So if you if we right now they have 180 they plan to add 23 that' give you 203 parking places. If you save four people per car which I think is would be fair we're talking about 812 people. So I mean the maximum during Ramadan was I mean one of the numbers was around 800. The average is 500. So, I think maintaining parking lot attendance as the what we're looking for here, not even looking at off-site parking now because now we have a number that would accommodate most of the services. So, I don't understand, you know, if it it didn't work, we could always come back and and make some adjustments uh in six months, see how it works. Um, but I think that that would I don't know why we would even have to go to offsite off-site parking, but this would take care of a lot of issues. My perspective, vice chair, do you have any thoughts on that? No comment. Okay,

Mr. Wait, Mr. Stunt, hold on. I'm sure Yeah, I'd like to ask a clarifying question to uh staff, please. Um, I think Miss Schubin, you you brought this up earlier. Um, does the town restrict occupancy beyond what the building code says in any other um, religious congregation in town? I know you mentioned it was tied somehow to the max seating uh, of a facility. Um, can you clarify that?

Thank you for the question. I'm not aware of any other cups in the town that restrict um further to what you're describing. All of the conditions are related to on-site parking. Um they're not related to the occupancy of the building.

And for further clarification, in other words, we don't have the occupancy limits for every religious institution in town currently. Right, Mr. Stone? I I guess what I was saying um is that even if we limited these services um in the on the agenda the 11 months of the year to their parking lot, they currently have 20 to 50 people participating prior to sunrise. They have a hundred participating on the weekend. Um and then that's for uh fajger and then for um issa 80 to 100 in the evenings during the weekday 150 to 200 um weekends. that could clearly and and give them all kinds of headroom and growth by having those services be fully in their parking lot because again 180* 3 180 whatever you want to multiply it by they've got tremendous capacity so I don't think it would be constraining sure I guess there is a limit there at some point that you would say you know you can't go past that reasonable number and and again that would somewhat self-limiting based on how people um arrive at the mosque, car pooling, etc.

Here's where my concern is, right, wrong or indifferent, is obviously we're not worried about the days that there's 25 people there, right? Like to be candid, this is all very much about peak services during Ramadan. And my worry is we then limit something that we are not limiting in other religious institutions in the town. Um that's where my discomfort comes from and my concern comes from. Commissioner,

I guess I would say is there another religious institution in town that needs to be limited? And the reason I say that in the document that I provided, I did um a parallel look at the mosque, which remember it's a landlocked mosque. It's a landlocked property. They have about five spaces of what I'd call good neighbor parking. If you go to Calvary, they've got 46 467 parking spaces. Their average attendance is 4 to 500 a week. A week. They don't have a parking problem. Lascatos Presbyterian, they got 190 parking spaces. They are bringing in 355 people a week. A week. Sheridosh across the street. 135 parking spaces. They're bringing in 2 to 400 people a week. Everything can be parked there. And on uh Lascatus Presbyterian, plenty of good neighbor parking because they only have neighbors on one side. Sheridosh neighbors on one side. They have plenty of good neighbor parking on Shannon Road and on Cherry Blossom. Same with Lascatus Presbyterian. Cherry Blossom and Shannon Road that fronts their property. So I do think this is somewhat of a unique situation that we have here. Um and boy, I hate to give this analogy, but you know, maybe with the opening of Whole Foods, um what was here before was kind of a mom and pop grocery store. and and what we now have is a Whole Foods with the kind of traffic that this is generating. And and again, please I don't say that in any derogatory terms, folks. I don't I just can't come up with analogy to describe the the increased volume that this neighborhood has experienced. It's real. And and I don't want to be in I don't want to be insensitive to everybody. I'd

love to have a win-win. And that's why I recommended mediation because I wanted to see the groups come together with a professional facilitator to try and narrow some things down and then come back to us the things that can't be worked out. So anyway, thank you.

I agree with you there, Vice. One question that could be asked is whether three people per car is u an accurate base point uh to start and I don't think any of us know the answer to that. I've seen many families walking together uh from off streetet parking but um if the number is actually significantly lower then we're really capping the uh operation of the religious institution. And just so you know where my number came from, Jeffrey, um I was given the peak day for Ramadan this year was 850. And I asked Rozie, can you just estimate the number of cars? He said, no, I can tell you exactly cuz I counted them that night. There were 280 cars. So using the modern math, I said 850 divided by 280 equals three. I excuse me, equals three. Um now that's just one data point, you know. Um so in in Rob we trust all others bring data right so anyway um that's where the three per car came from and it could be wrong it could it's I don't think it's four um could be three what if it's two that means 360 people right so it's still it's still a big number from an attendance perspective

discussion from other commissioners Okay. So, Miss Wheeling, at this point, if we've deliberated and talked, do I call for the first motion and then the second? And I assume commissioners can only vote once. Can you clarify this since it's the first time we've done it this way? Um, if I remember, the second motion was adding elements to the first motion. So, I would have each commissioner vote on the first motion followed by a vote on the second motion.

Can So, if one person voted yes on the first one, do they vote on the second one just as no or can they? Um, I would have them vote again and then you'll know if the if both the first and the second motion passed or if only the first motion passed. What if they both Okay. All right. All right. Fine. Fine. Okay. Commissioner Bernett, I just want clarification again on that. It's confusing to me. I about the motions. I I want that clarified. Are we voting?

It sounds like first there'll be a vote on uh Commissioner Bernett's Barnett's motion followed by a vote on Commissioner Stump's motion. So we're So we have two motions. They're separate. Okay. Thank you. Separate yet tied. So all right. So then I'm going to call the vote on the motion put in place by Vice Chair Barnett. Um do I just go down the line or do we just call the vote as normal for something like this? I would call it as normal.

Okay, great. All in favor? opposed. Okay. All right. So, we have a second motion on the table from Commissioner Stump. All in favor?

Exactly. Opposed. All right. So neither motion passes. Um so I think another option would be for someone to put forth a new motion. Let me ask this because I think that's going to take probably a little bit of thinking. Can we take a short break? All right, we're going to take a short break. 10 minutes.

Excuse me. All right. I want to thank you for letting us take a few minutes to get some thoughts together. Uh now opening the planning commission meeting again. So we had two motions on the table. Both votes were tie. So, I'm going to ask my fellow commissioners if there are any further questions of staff or if another motion wants to be ventured.

Commissioner St. I would like to try another motion. Um, instead of restating everything's been stated because it's in the record, I am going to move to accept all of the uh contents of Mr. Barnett's motion with the addition of prayer service maximum attendance. Um, that's going to be tied to parking. So for the general hours for the fajger the issha prayer service it will be limited to their on-site parking currently of 180 spaces obviously if the parking goes up so the number would go up as well but 180 spaces for the seasonal late hours the fajer prayer service during Ramadan would be limited to 180 um the on-site parking limited to 180 for the ISha Tarowi prayer service in the evening. It's their maximum occupancy. Um that that would be uh at play in play for Ramadan.

I see a question. Yes. So, previous parts of that motion had included parking leases. parking leases such as affordable treasures. Are we It's That's still in That's still in business. Yes. I'm I'm pulling everything along and just adding this addition clarifying it. Okay. So, what I need you to do is again walk through. You're talking about am prayer. Yeah. AM prayer. Say that to me one more time. So, the two different I'll call them um calendars for their church or their mosque general hours. Mhm.

which is 11 months of the year. The fosure prayer service which is you know pre- sunrise would be limited to 180 parking the 180 parking spaces on uh their site. The ISha prayer service which is the evening prayer service would be limited to 180 um vehicles their parking limited to their parking on site. Then for the seasonal late hours, which is basically Ramadan for that 30-day period, the Fajure prayer service would be limited to the 180 parking spaces on their site. And for the Isha Tarowi prayer services, um they will be going they will they can go to their max occupancy um for their facility.

Okay. So So my question still stands. You're saying this only based on on-site parking. Earlier discussions had said taking into consideration on-site parking and potentially like the the 35 or 36. They have it like Obviously. Yeah. Obviously for the Ramadan, it's got to include off-site parking for the that Yes. Okay. That absolutely includes off-site parking. Question. So, if the parking lot is extended, I assume you're increasing your numbers to 220.

I think that's fair. Yeah. When at the time that it is, and I guess if we're going to review this next year, that would be the time to pick it up. through the chair. Just to want to double confirm that Vice Chair Barnett's original motion

accepted staff's conditions and added I counted 18 additional pieces. The first one was pro to seek offsite parking leases confirming with Commissioner Stump that outside of Ramadan that's not the case. that the limit would be based on the 180. That would be that's the intent. So that's a modification of that first one that vice chair Barnett

brought up. So my motion that off-site parking during Ramadan and Guess if the based on the applicants quotation which sounded very accurate of their actual use outside of Ramadan, I think it's reasonable um to not require off-site parking for those events. But during Ramadan, I guess for the evening service, we're requiring off-site leasing, but not uh during the morning service. That sound right?

Would ask the maker of the motion. So, think so. I would I would accept that uh change to my motion. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. through the chair. We still need a second. I know that I'm thinking. Okay. All right. Fine. Uh, is there a second? Commissioner Sordy, is there discussion or questions of staff? Okay. I I have a question. Um, so is the intent of the motion to limit the number of vehicles or is it to um limit the number of attendees based on an assumed number of people per vehicle? It's to limit the number of vehicles.

Thank you. Oh, okay. I have a question of staff. However, something I would like to clarify. Currently, Farley is a public street. I understand what we're doing and trying to limit the number of vehicles. Are we able to only limit to the parking lot and not allow attendees to park on Farley? I want to make sure that we're being very transparent and clear as this goes forward.

Um, anybody can park on public rightway. So, the town can't limit who parks on public rideway unless there's specific parking restrictions in place. Um, there is a condition of approval, I believe, that was proposed by staff that um mandates that the lot be used prior to the street for parking. Okay. All right. Um, is there discussion? Yeah, he did. It was seconded by Commissioner Sordy. Um, all right. I guess if there's no further discussion, I guess I'll call the question all in. Okay. I'm sorry, Commissioner.

The full motion. Um, okay. So, I did review the town's sign or actually the planning manager direct me to a section in the town's noise ordinance that provides that um it does not prohibit amplified sound outdoors altogether. It provides that amplified sound can be used um when an applicant gets a special use permit. Um and so I don't recommend that the conditions go beyond what's in the town code as far as amplified sound. Um and so uh I recommend that it say no amplified sound except as allowed by the town code.

Is that acceptable? Um I guess vice chair first. My instinct is to u provide special protection to the neighbors and require it uh the prohibition against all amplified sound outside of the buildings. Um regardless in in other words not dependent on uh on town approval.

Is that acceptable? like Oh, it's uh it's the commission's decision. Okay. All right. Fine. Okay. So, we have a motion, a second on the table. Um I will call the question. All in favor? Okay. That passes unanimously. Um are there appeal rights, Mr. Bolson? Well, I think I'll turn to the attorney because we're going to need to craft conditions and bring back uh a revised resolution with revised conditions and we'll bring that back probably at the next meeting um and have that on the consent calendar I would imagine.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. There was by the way um other business but as this took a while tonight we have move we will move other business to a date certain or just to a future date. What would be the preference of staff? You don't I don't know that you need a date certain. I didn't think so. There's no noticing involved. So, a date certain is not necessary. We can just look for an upate upcoming meeting that looks like it has capacity uh real estate capacity. And then one more clarification that just popped in my head. Um is since we are bringing back the resolution and the revised conditions of approval, should we continue it to a date certain with this direction from the planning commission? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I agree with that. So for the maker and the secondary it would be continuing the item for revised conditions to the next meeting which is I can't see behind my head. Oh it's the 13th May 13th 13th. So if we'd add that to the motion. Is that acceptable to the makers of the motion and the seconder? Agreed. Yep. All right.

All right then. Um so then I assume actually since it's a continuence there are not appeal rights right now. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. All right. Um Okay. So, we will now move on to any other um update from the community development director, Mr. Pollson. There is no update this evening. Thank you. Right. Have any commissioners got some subcommittee reports to report on? Yeah. Commissioner Bernett. Yes, we had a planning commission I mean a historic preservation committee meeting tonight. Uh there were four items and um that's it.

Are there any other commission matters? Um if not, thank you everyone. This meeting's adjourned.