Arts in Public Places Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

All right. 5.30. That means it's time to call this meeting to order. Thank you everybody for attending. So, I guess the first order of business is public comment. Any public comments? Okay. That being the case, the next is the order of business. The first thing on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from the May 28, 2006, 2026 APP meeting. Any votes on this or any comments?

The minutes from the May 28, 2026 APP meeting. I second.

So Jasmine seconded it. It's like Mexican stand-up. I'll abdicate the second thing. Okay, that being the case, it's been forwarded and seconded, and I have to read it, or do I just say vote on it?

I think you can just say all in favor.

All in favor. Aye.

It was unanimous.

Unanimous. The best comment. Okay, next on the order of business is the Lion Sculpture Designs. And so we have the deputy chief is online, James Rodriguez, and we'd like him to go ahead and bring forward his comments and point of perspective for this topic of business. So, James, the floor is yours.

Okay. Can everyone hear me? It's a little bit muffled on my side. Okay. All right. You can hear me. Okay. I'll just start off with this. Finally, we're to this point. We're kind of rolling. And to kind of give everyone a bit of background of where we're at internally with the county and at the PD, I actually just met with contractors today, and they were here on site looking at the location of where we're going to be setting up. what they call a radius wall or radial wall, kind of a circular wall where we want that to be kind of the background for the lion sculpture that we're talking about. So very preliminary, but in looking at the area, it looks like the sculpture will fit there, the wall would fit there. We talked about possible renditions of having some benches set up in there. They seem to think that the area will work perfectly for what we're thinking about. That's kind of where we're at now. Other than that, I think the meaning we're here for today also is to talk a bit about the artist. I'm not going to get too much into that. I'll let you guys talk about that. But from our side, that's where it's at. From a personal perspective, I'm really excited to see this come to fruition. I know there's been some back and forth of a particular animal, what animal it should be. I think Jasmine even recommended a roadrunner at one point, but it will be a lion. I'm hoping, yeah. So that's kind of where we're at now.

Thank you, UIW chief. Okay, other comments from the board members, folks on the committee? I guess that's me and Jasmine.

Yeah, talking about the... To design options and then bringing it to a vote to recommend to council is what it is. There is a language in there if you would like to use that.

We're definitely going to use that.

And that way then that can translate easily over to council and put that on council's agenda.

So what's in front of us today is the decision between design one and design number two. Is that correct?

Yes. So sitting in a sphinx. I think James can jump in here. They all are leaning towards the sphinx pose, not the sitting pose.

Yes. Yeah. And just for clarification, I know like the sphinx pose that we're talking about, it's the lion actually laying down or lying down with its head up. not with its feet kind of propped up, if that makes sense. And you guys have the images in front of you. I think you guys can see the difference. But it would be the laying line, I guess.

It's released. Yeah, for the record, it's the redesign number one, Sphinx pose.

Yes, yes.

That's how it might look. photographs or the mocked up images are what it might look like in front of the memorial and then the sketches are from the artist himself.

Discussions on the rejoices?

Classic design. I agree, but we have to entertain discussion, so having been entertained...

Does somebody want to make a recommendation on this based on what Chelsea has?

I move that arts and public places select revised sculpture number one by artist Daniel Orup and recommend to county council that be commissioned to design fabricate deliver and install the sculpture for the police station public art project with a not to exceed budget of $75,000 of installation contingent contingency black and ribbon cutting ceremony expenses and excluding gross receipt tax I further move that the police station art of the working group be closed and and that the staff liaison be directed to complete the remaining administrative steps moving forward.

Second. Okay. There being a first and a second.

Before you vote, let me just clarify that because you make a sad face. When Stephanie was here and we were designing this process, remember, that the chair starts a working group when a project starts, but then she felt like it was important that closing a working group should be a vote so that nobody, not just the chair, gets to say, oh, you're done. And since the work is now up to where the working group is done with their work, it makes sense to close.

a motion and a second. Take a vote. All those in favor? Aye. Okay. It's a unanimous vote. Let the record show. Okay. Moving on to the next order of business. Thank you, James.

I got to get home, but I appreciate it. Thank you guys for your time. Sorry I couldn't be there. I just had some other stuff internally I had to take care of today, but looking forward to it. I'm just as sad as you guys when the working group comes to an end, but I'm sure I'll see you guys again. Thank you.

Take care. Bye. Bye.

Next sort of business, fire station, number four, artwork acquisition process theme and budget discussion. So, Chelsea, would you like to give us an update on this?

Yes. That's a lot of information, and I think some of you guys, I think many of you know a lot of the pieces, but I want to clarify it for everybody so everybody's on the same page. I think there is, there are some opportunities that you guys are being afforded that I think are really exciting, but that they really required, I think some good discussion to make sure you all are aware of what, what this process could look like and why it's different than what a different, our normal process is. And so that you guys are entering into this with an open mind or like with fully understanding of the process, I guess. So what I want to do is I want to talk to you. The state can be involved in this one because the Fire Station 4 project received a grant from the state of $2 million. And in that grant, 1% was allocated for art in public places. It's through the state. It's not given to you guys as the board. It's not part of the APP fund. It all stays with the state. But because you guys have already had this project planning, that there's an opportunity to be able to combine our monies with the state. And so I wanted to kind of outline right now what that process looks, what their process is, what this would require of you all, and sort of next steps if you want that. And then I can help with like discussion points or whatever. There's no vote today because I think it's really important to be thoughtful about this. And there might be some questions that you guys have that I don't know the answers to. So it gives me a month to find those answers. And then there'll be a vote in August about this. So New Mexico's art in public places requires that a portion of capital project funds be used to acquire or commission public art. That's why there's this 1% here. This project offers us the opportunity to partner with them There are two funding pathways from the state. So either a direct purchase program, which are for projects under $100,000. And that's one that I've shared with some of you guys. That's like the catalog. So the state has like a catalog of already preselected artists and their artwork. And so it would be a matter of you guys could go through the catalog and pick a piece or two for the...

How do we access that catalog, or can we access it?

I think what happens is once the formal process starts, then they share that catalog with you.

So we have to make a decision as to which way to go before we can see what's available?

No, actually, that is not true. I think if you just go to the website, I included their website. some of their information in this packet and I think you can go on the website and click through and choose the direct purchase program and then there's a bunch of categories like New Mexico artists only, Native American artists, I don't know, a variety of them. But that's a good question. I can get you that specific information. Those are for projects under $100,000. The state's allocation is $20,000 for the fire station. So it would fit in that purchase program if you wanted to do that and keep the project that you're planning on separate from this. Or you could have the site-specific commission program, and those are for projects over $100,000. So when I talked to the person from the state, we're allowed to combine our budget, your budget, with their $20,000. So what that would mean is you would need to contribute at least $80,001 for this project to be combined with the $20,000 to be able to do the site-specific commission program. So I'm going to assume that I'm going to give you information on how the site-specific commission program works, assuming that this project will be over $100,000. But again, if you don't like that, there are lots of other options.

Let me ask one question. So let's say hypothetically we don't combine the money. We still get a piece of art. What's the process to then bring that into this EPPB collection? In other words, do we take it as a donation then, or is it automatically brought in?

You guys would select it. I haven't studied as much about that process as this other one, but from my understanding, you guys would select the pieces and let the state know that these are the pieces we want. The state would then purchase those and then give them to the county, so it would be then part of the APP collection, but then if you needed to do some major maintenance, or there was an issue with it, or you needed to deaccession it for any reason, the state still has some authority about that. So you'd need to notify the state. But it would be part of the APP collection.

So if we wanted to... I'm just thinking about the mechanics of how we get this authorized. With the no money in place, would this be sort of follow the same course on acquisition of like a donation? How will the county council get this thing? Do you guys approve no money to the county? And then it comes into the collection and then goes.

Okay. That's what I think, but I can definitely clarify that so that I know that for sure.

Okay. Yeah. Just to be sure. Okay.

Okay. If we did go down the state commissioning, the commissioning side of things. So now it's a hundred, you know, we've combined our monies, it's over a hundred thousand dollar project and you now want to commission an artist like you would normally. We would have a, you know, a working group or whatever. So from the state's process, they call that a local selection committee. So we need to form a local selection committee. There are required members, according to the state. And so we have to follow their process in order to use these funds. Even though it's only $20,000 and you guys might be contributing over $80,000, the state would still require that we use the state's commissioning and the contracting process. So you have to keep that in mind, which is why it's really important that you guys know all of this to enter this process. you know, decision.

Eyes wide open.

Yeah. Okay. So, on this local selection committee, you have to have the owner agency representative. Owner agency would be you guys, the county. And I'll explain this a little bit later, but for the purposes, for this to work properly, really, it's going to require all APP members to be on the selection committee. So...

All five of us, as we expect to be?

Well, that makes things a little more complicated, of course. Like, there's going to be lots of little complications. I think we can get through them all. But, right, that is something we have to consider. Right now, it's only four of you. If we find somebody new, it could be five before we start this process. So, who knows? So the owner agency has to be representative. That's you guys. The user agency would have to be represented, which would mean somebody from the fire station. architect or engineer that's familiar with the site is required so that that way then if an you know an artist suggests the piece that is not going to hold up structurally from you know whatever that they they would be able to advise us on that I think that can be the project manager of the fire station construction project but I'm not sure There is an architect, but the architect was a contractor, and so it might require additional funds to be spent for their time. So I don't know quite how that works. Again, I'll work this all out if you guys like this idea. There needs to be an arts professional. That could be like a UNM art instructor or somebody who owns a gallery. No, I'm not an arts professional, but Andy might be an arts professional. So you might be able to wear two hats on this, right? Do they have a list of qualifications for this? No, there isn't, and so I'm going to have to ask. And I know you're nervous about wearing two hats at the same time, but this might work nicely for you. I don't know. We'll see. An artist needs to be part of the selection committee.

What is the definition of artist?

I don't have one, so... Filmmaking is art. That might be you too. Okay. Again, I can... These are all these questions that I need to know about, right?

I just want to ask. All right.

Okay. And then outside of the selection committee is a project director that coordinates with the state person. And I think I can fill that role. So I can be the project director because I can coordinate and then do all of the administrative pieces, which I usually do anyway. Okay. What is required of this selection committee are three meetings. And every single member of the selection committee has to attend all three meetings. So you can't miss any of them. So here's what that requires. The first meeting would be developing, they call it a prospectus. Basically, that's the call for art. They anticipate, and again, I gave you sort of the breakdown in the agenda packet, but they estimate, the state estimates that at about two to four hours. I'm thinking that that could be a regular APP member that then we invite the other selection committee members to. So it might be a 5 to 7.30, 5.30 to 7.30 meeting or 7.30 to... No, I haven't been there. I don't know. I'm just following the directions here. And so then after that, you guys create the call for art. What happens then is the state will then send off the call for art, use all their connections, and then they have a way of collecting art. qualifications right it's like we did with the with the lion sculpture and so then you as the committee members would have to review those applications prior to the next meeting they say it could be like 50 applicants we don't know so it could be some time involved in reviewing those applications then you come to your second meeting. That's called the finalist selection. So then you take all of the applications that have come in that you have previously reviewed, and then you down select to get to your semi-finalists or your finalists. Again, they estimate that to be two to four hours.

Sorry.

All right. That's where all the semi-finalists come and they make presentations to this committee of their project. So it could be like five presentations. And then after that, then the selection committee actually selects the finalists right there. They're all public meetings. That one they estimate taking six to eight hours. So I would imagine that that final meeting would have to be one where it's either a Friday that you guys have off, or that you have to take time off of work, or I don't know. We're going to have to call a special APP meeting. So again, that's why I'm explaining this all, because it sounds good on the front end, but there's a lot of details that you have to commit to. I want you to be really aware of this. The one piece that the state does not do in their process that we do that we can't really compromise on is that we then take the semifinalists' proposals and give it to the community for them to weigh in on, right? I talked to the state person about that. She's happy to support that. I think what would happen is it could fit between the second and the third meeting. So you guys would down select. Then I would take those five, let's say, and make a community survey. We get those results. You guys get those results prior to going into that final meeting. So then you could have a discussion about the community survey results while you're making that final decision. Okay. This is an unusual process, and so I checked in with the county manager to see if she was supportive of it, and so far she is. We all know that there's going to be pieces that we have to jump through some hoops, but she's supportive. I then talked to our legal team, some of the legal team, and they are supportive of this right now, which is encouraging. I showed them the... template of the contract that the state uses to commission artists, and there's enough that it still gives the county enough control that they're comfortable with it as well. I think it needs to have probably some tweaks, but it's not a definite no, so we're still good to do that. So here's some issues to consider. The first one is the attendance requirement of that meeting, and can you guys do that? Are you willing to do that? And, right, what are we going to do with a fifth member that comes in? We have to then consider that. The whole committee has to be able to attend. So anybody that we add on. It can't.

Well, yeah, I guess that's what I mean.

Yeah, let me explain that just a minute. Yeah, let me go through these other ones, and then I'll explain why that's not going to work, I think. The big stickler, I think, that we're going to have is that right now, our county ordinance, it's Section 8-34C, the words say that this board recommends an artist or artwork to council. So with this process, you would go to council prior to knowing who the artist is and knowing what the artwork is, because you would need to get the council to approve the budget. What you could, but there's a way to do that. What would happen is that council would need to delegate their final approval authority to the selection committee. That's the big difference. So we'd have to explain to council what this all means, why this is the way we're going forward. down this path. But what we could do, but we can give the council a lot of information up ahead of that. We could have already met the first meeting and have the prospectus done so that they could have the call for art and know what it is. They could know who the selection committee members are. They could see the template of the contract from the state. So they would have a lot of information and then the budget amount. They might say no, you can't do that. And then we would have to pivot and do our normal process. Wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would be a bummer. But we would know at least upfront. Because that's what's happening. The alternative is that we've gone through this entire process and spent months and months and months and months and then go to council with the artist and then the council could say, No, we don't approve, and all of that time and energy has been for naught. And so if the council would agree to delegate their final approval authority to the committee, that would help.

To the committee as embodied by all the people that you just enumerated.

Exactly.

So what happens if in that committee there's no consensus? In other words, we have some number of people and it's evenly split. What happens at that point in time?

That is a good question. I will write that down. The state... The program manager for the arts program at the state level, her name is Meredith. She is the one that would lead the committee. She's on the committee as well, and she would lead through the process. She has done this for years. She knows how to do that. So I would imagine that would not be the first time. But I will ask.

Is she also a voting member on that committee?

That is a good question. I don't know. Voting member?

Well, let me just walk this back for one second. So what you just described is what we have to follow if we go over $101,000. Is that correct? Or is this for any amount of money?

Over $100,000 to do this, to be able to combine. If we're going to combine our monies... And do a commissioning selection. We have to use the state process, and we have to, and the budget has to be more than $100,000.

So if we keep it under $100,000, you can pick something from the catalog. If we split the procurement, so I'm just saying going through the places, instances where we don't have to follow this process, right? So if we say... we get a piece for $99,000, we don't have to follow this process. So if we want to commission a piece, it is not under $100,000.

It's not in the catalog.

We don't have to follow this process.

If it's $100,000, we have to follow this process.

And you want to commission an artist to do this.

What if it's a commissioned piece under $100,000?

You can't use the state process because the commission only is for over $100,000.

But I guess maybe that's the inverse of what I'm saying.

I think he's asking if we don't get the $20,000 for that project if you're commissioning it. The $20,000 is only for the catalog. Right.

Okay, so we can only buy things from the catalog if it's under $100,000. In other words, if we decide we don't want to buy something from the catalog, we keep procurement under $100,000, we don't have to follow the process, or...

But we don't then get to use their $20,000.

So it's either we have to buy something from the catalog, or if it was over $100,000, then we've got to do this commissioning. Or you could do a different project. Yeah, but we don't have to take the money. We can just buy something from the catalog for $20,000 and then do our own thing. That I understand.

Okay. Okay, we are following the state's procurement requirements One of the other advantages to going with the state is not only that we could combine the $20,000, but they will also pay the semi-finalists stipends. Remember how the lion sculpture, we paid $1,500 for the semi-finalists to do their design? Meredith has said that the state would take on that cost, and it would not come out of the budget of the $20,000 or our budget. So that's extra money. The state then contracts with the artist. So for like the lion sculpture or for the mural that we just finished, it was the county doing the contracting. So it's our procurement that does all of that work. This way, as a selection committee, you select and now the state does all of the work and the county doesn't have to. So it saves a lot of staff time. And again, legal is comfortable at this point with the template contract. And so as long as there's a few little adjustments, which I think are reasonable, we can do that. Okay. Off of my head, here are my pros and cons. You can add to them. I think pro, that you guys could be learning a best practice commissioning technique, like having a larger, you know, like learning the state's process could help us improve our internal process going forward. I think having that selection committee that has other people besides you guys on it would be more robust, more credible. It would serve us well, I think. We would have a larger overall budget. The space that has been designed for this piece of art right now is a fairly large space, and when I talk to Meredith, she doesn't think we can commission an artist for under $100,000 for that footprint, because it's pretty substantial. And right, the state pays the finalist stipends. And she's also, again, no promises, no commitments here. But if you guys decide we're going to put in $80,001 and the state puts in $20,000, but then by the time the prospectus is written and all the things that go in there, the state realizes it might be like, Maybe we should bump up the budget to 120 they may be able to put in that additional funding Out of their auxiliary fund again. No promises, but that might be something we could we could benefit from and again the reduced County workload for procurement and contracting and all of that which Okay the cons We have less control over the process and There's more steps and more requirements of everybody. It's pretty onerous. And there's, yeah, a higher time commitment for you guys. Okay, so here's what I think you guys need to talk about. Your general reactions to this. Do you like this? Do you not like this? What are you worried about? What do you think the pros and cons are? Any questions, additional questions, besides the one I wrote down from Tim that you would like answered before August? I can go do some research. If you do like this, I could use some help with justifying. On the surface, it's only $20,000 to our $80,000. So is all of this hoop jumping worth it? And so it would be nice to have sort of some being able to articulate what the cost-benefit is. And then you guys need to talk about What kind of budget you want to contribute this to.

So let me ask this question. Can they direct you to anybody else in the state who's gone through this process? I can tell you that isn't somebody from Santa Fe or Albuquerque who's gone through this process. Give you their perspective on how this went for them.

That's what I do. I could definitely do that.

We already talked about it, so I'm pretty much, like, great. It would be good to see what the state does and, like, maybe be able to review your cerebellus almost, so...

I mean, like, after the conversation we had with Jasmine on it, like, I think $20,000 to $80,000, like, obviously, like, we're contributing more, but it's still non-trivial. And, like, the money that we could save potentially on, like, the stipends for the finalists and, like, the introduction to, like, you know, sort of best practices. State level. I was like, I mean, this is, like, potentially a pretty... significant piece of artwork in terms of size I think like given the community's relationship with fires in the past like it's worth probably being I think it's rather I think I would rather like go big than go home on this project given the community even just like in the beginning of July like I had the acues from um the Sierra Los Pinos community house um for that fire like it's so relevant um you know so I think also it's going to be like a new building it's going to be like kind of like a flashy building I think for Los Alamos like you know within the confines of our community you know and I think that it would be nice to have something that's you know a significant piece of artwork

to share all those views. I think this is a way to really add to the scope of the project. Like you're saying, I'm a little hesitant to go through full space process, but it is something I think we learn and learn a lot from. The one thing I think I know you're mentioning that we'll need an arts professional as well as an artist. If we need that, I'm happy to serve that role, but I think if the purpose of installing that member on the committee is to broaden the perspective, we should at least try to find someone outside of our board. But generally, I think The pros way outweigh the cons. This is a cool way to give $20,000 additional budget to our project and to save a lot of staff time, like you're saying, to outsource it to the state would be great for general operations.

And to answer your question about could it be a quorum, and I forgot to. So I think for the same reason why we would want council to delegate the selecting authority or approving authority to the selection committee, it would be the same for you guys. If only a few of you were there, again, the process is that APP as a whole votes, and then if you vote yes, you recommend that to council. it's like we're already kind of modifying that for the council, and so you guys would need to all be together so that you're not now having to stop and go back to the full APP board to have this conversation, to have a vote, to come back to the selection committee. It just makes it more succinct, I guess. And I hear you about the, right, different perspectives or whatever but the downside is that while having all of you there it might then make that selection committee extra large compared to what other entities have done before because it just needs one owner agents so in other places that don't that you know it might just be one person from the county as a poet just makes the arch which might so the Yeah, which the variety or the efficiency, I don't know.

Yeah, I see a perspective. Fewer people to miss a meeting.

Right. The more you have and everybody has to come, that's a lot of pressure.

So I'm sort of hesitant. I'll let by my questions. But I'm sort of hesitant to go down this path of commingling the money. One of the questions or one of the things I guess I would put out is, Just approve $75,000 for the police station for our piece that represents the entire police department. Now we're going to take Fire Station 4, which is a subset, and try to authorize them for $80,000 plus. It's just a question of how are we appropriating funds that the council has to the various elements of the county. What does that say? I mean, I don't know what it says, but just something to think about. I'm also reticent to start bringing in a bunch of people and understanding how the voting works. So for example, if we have one person who doesn't agree with the way that the council or the committee decided we want to go, does that tank the whole thing?

Does it have to be unanimous?

Does it have to be unanimous? Or can we have dissenters? How do we make the final decision? Just this whole, what I'd hate to do is we go and spend all this time, get to that final eight-hour meeting, and at the end not be able to draw a conclusion. And what happens if we get to that end and we can't make a decision? Because it sounds to me like we may have more than just two artists, two semi-finalists. So how do we handle all that? I don't know, and this is the state's rules, and so we have to follow those. I guess the other question, so another question would be, so we're asking county council to say divest themselves of some of this authority to give it to us. Can we put that sort of, is that something, when do we make that decision? before we're going to make this decision, and does that mean it ends up on the September, or is it, when is it, when does that go to the accounts, or does it wait until November, December?

I have possible next steps. Okay, all right, I'm sure you do. I'm going to go down this, if you'd like to hear it. We have a timeline. But to your other point, I don't know if I could ask, but I could ask if Meredith would be willing to join you guys in your August meeting and be able to outline it better or to answer any questions or to give you examples of how it has happened in the past.

So I guess let me walk this back. What I'm saying is I fundamentally don't have a problem mingling the dollars, doing this, I'm just concerned that the process becomes onerous and puts us in a place where we don't end up. We're back here at the same place without the state's money trying to figure out what to do. So that's my only concern.

Okay. If you guys choose, do you want me to tell you your next steps? Does that work? What if you get a fifth person and they want to do it? That is a good question.

Just join so they don't get a second.

We kidnap them and make them. Somebody stage themselves outside, block them from entering, and then we just do our own thing.

They'll be coming on in the middle and they don't have time to do all these meetings.

Right. Which might be, yeah, and it might, if you guys really want to go down this, maybe that is a question we ask in an interview. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure how that works.

There's a whole bunch of little things that we have to get through and learn and whatever. But I'm thinking the possible next steps, if you support this process. In your August meeting, you would have final discussions and answer any questions. You're going to vote whether to recommend the state process to council. So you'd have to say, we recommend, ask for approval for this or whatever. And then you'd identify the not to exceed project budget. So that would all go to a vote. Then during, after that, during a council work session is what I'm thinking because that's where presentations happen. that we, I don't know, us, I'm not sure, would present to council and explain all of this. With PowerPoint slides, much more succinctly and whatever. Let them either... I don't know exactly how that process works. Again, I'll have to learn, but they might be able to ask questions at that point, and we could get an initial reaction to them. If then they're supportive of that, we could proceed with the next step, or if they seem like, we don't like this at all, then we stop at that point, right? If they are... seem relatively supportive because they would not vote at that point. That would just be an information, kind of like how this is. It gives them a chance to think about that. Then we would assemble the selection committee and do our first meeting. I'm thinking that the earliest would be September, but maybe that might be October.

So just to be clear, so going to council, having that discussion, that's contingent upon decision today?

No.

So that would be in August?

If you vote for this in August, it might be able to get on to a work session later in August. I don't know. I don't have the calendar in front of me. If not, it would be in the beginning of September. So then you would, so after that, you would assemble your selection committee, have your first meeting so that you design your call for art. Then we would get on council to, on their agenda for them to vote. And we give them the call for art, the selection committee members, any other information, any questions that may have come up at the work session, we could address at that point. We could do any of that.

So for this, do we then have to get the council approval for the members of that committee? Because at that point in time, the council would be approving They would be saying, okay, committee, you're making this decision. We're giving you the authority to expend county funds based on the decision of this committee.

That's a good question. I can ask that. When I was talking to legal about this, their suggestion was that the motion would be that they're delegating final approval authority to the selection committee as well as authorizing the budget like you normally do. It didn't have anything to do with the specific members. Right.

I mean, I don't know.

Counselor, what would you say? I'm not sure I was listening carefully.

Okay, that's okay. Let me just rehash what I guess my question was. My question is, okay, so we're going to go to counsel. So in Chelsea's timeline, we go to counsel. We're going to ask them for the authority to expend budget on a project that we haven't made the final determination as to what that project is going to be based on the state's process for selecting pieces. That decision would be made by a committee, some of whom would be members here, but some would be folks that have not been vetted. And so the question is, would the county council want to approve the members of that committee? Because they're making the determinations out. We don't know what role they're going to play. For that voting process.

I have no idea what the county charter even says about it. I'm sure this complicated circumstance is not even mentioned. So we probably have to make up a rule for this. Giving a certain amount of money away for the state process to control it. an objection or two. I could see that.

I could see that. And if there is, then we come back and we regroup and you then talk about what kind of budget you want instead.

So you're saying that the project would never come back to the county council for a vote then? Would it go to this committee that you'd be forming and we'd give them money and

To expend the funds that would be pre-approved. Knowing what we're buying, yeah.

Yeah, you would have a lot of details, but not the exact piece or the exact artist.

Well, I can't speak for other people. I don't think we have any rules for this. Can we guess what the... No, no need to guess. Yeah, I don't think we should guess.

And I can look into more about that part of it. That might be something we need to be able to talk to and address. There's some research that needs to go into it.

That might be part of the... In talking to other communities that have gone through this process... That's how they've handled this.

Well, but keep in mind that the reason, like we might be different because our particular ordinance says that this board recommends to council the artist or the art piece. Other municipalities might not have that statement in their ordinance. And so that's why we are doing it, having to do it this way. Thank you. But let me ask about the approval of the selection committee.

The arts professional and the artist. And then the architect or engineer. Not engineer, so I guess. The project. You have to get familiar with the project. Like if there was, yeah, because it seems like maybe there is a way we could.

We still have the state person to get out from.

But if we don't need a unanimous vote and the members of the board are a majority, then it just becomes, like, who is their dissent within the board and who can strong-arm the other board members. I think Tom Kennedy. That's right.

Hold you down until you agree.

Oh, my God. But, yeah, I mean. It's definitely worth clarifying, and I can get you more answers for that. For sure. And then if we did end up taking it as a request to council, that's why we would make a presentation ahead of time that we could lay out why this is unusual, what council can do, make sure they understand what they're agreeing to, and provide the assurances that we think are valid.

Have we ever done this before, this process?

No. Breaking new ground here. And so again, that's why I'm bringing it up in this manner, because it's the cost-benefit analysis. And for $20,000, Like, it's bad.

What happens if you don't get the mandatory meeting filled out? Come back.

Is this thrown away? You go back and you do the meeting again until you get everybody there.

It might extend the timeline is what would have to happen.

What happens if somebody is selected and then they somehow can't make it anymore?

On the selection committee or the artist?

Let's say I get arrested. Not that that ever happened. Yeah, let's say hypothetically. There's no speed cameras. Yeah, that's right. The new speed cameras are going to get me.

These are all good questions, and I'm happy to find the answers. That's why we're not putting this to a vote tonight. There's a lot to consider, and I want you guys to be really thoughtful about it.

Eight-hour meeting sounds pretty good. Like, built-in breaks for that. There's got to be. None. You just got to sit there.

That eight hours is coming from, like, their estimate. Exactly.

And it depends on how many finalists that you have. And so there might not be a whole lot of response to this call for art. And so it's going to take a lot less time because we're only talking about five total that you down select from. But it might be really popular and you have 50 artists that come. And so that's why they give you that time estimate.

We would be able to submit it for public in the

I was clear about that. When I was talking to Meredith about this and knowing, oh my gosh, there's going to be some hoops, I was like, and I told her what our normal process is. She said, it's pretty similar. The only big one is that we do a public, like all of these meetings, these three meetings are public, so anybody can come and make public comment. And so that's how they... handle that piece. We go a step above that and survey the community. And so I said, we're not willing to compromise on that piece. And she said that was fine and she would allow us to figure out how we could make that fit. And I think, and I can see where it would fit nicely. So that is not, that won't be an issue. That won't be an issue. We will definitely do that.

Okay, well, any other discussions on that bit of this item?

We have somebody online, I think.

We haven't talked about theme.

hold off on that that's up to you like i included the survey results and an analysis of that but um and so you're welcome to have that conversation tonight or you could have that on august or it could even be done if we go through with this process and um it would be discussed at the the first meeting because it would be in that theme would be incorporated into the um into the perspectives

And that's only valid if we go over $100,000. So we stay under $100,000 and buy the catalog. Is that correct?

I mean, I guess you could combine your funds with the $20,000 and purchase from the catalog. Or just use the $20,000.

Buy a piece, whatever we want, based on the county's... We have three options in front of us to consider for next month. One is use the money the county gives us or the state gives us or whatever from the catalog.

And be done with it and not use the footprint that the architect has done. Because this wouldn't be outdoor art. It would probably be indoor art.

It's independent, right? So what I'm saying is the state money would be used to buy a piece from the state catalog. We have to figure out what that is. into that part of the state funding, we still have whatever we want to do independent of this process. So that's one element. Another element would be we take their money coming with some additional funds, buy something from the catalog. We don't have to go through the process of fees and so on and so forth. Or third option is we go above $100,000 and then we fall into the requirements of a committee and having the council divest themselves of

give it to us so those are the three options we have is that correct in your second option does that then it that you're taking the 20,000 from the state adding some from the APP fund under 20,000 selecting from the catalog under 80 under 80,000 keep us under them okay and and selecting from the catalog that second one means that you would not do a the bigger footprint project?

It depends on what's in the catalog. Not knowing what's in the catalog and what's available may be a big footprint piece. I don't know. That's sort of independent. I mean, right now it's a procurement. It's not the footprint and the size of the piece. It's the process by which how do we proceed with the procurement? How do we use these state funds? So I guess there's a fourth option. One is we just say, that's very nice. Thank you. We don't want your $20,000. That's option one, the funds in total. Two is we take the funds and use them to buy a piece from the catalog and no further addition of funds from us. We then make a determination if we want to do an additional project or we leave it at that. That'd be a sub-decision. So we take the funds and use them. determine what we want to do. Third would be to commingle the funds. Keep it under $100,000. And then four would be to go over $100,000.

Is it possible... So I was trying online to look at the catalog, and they don't have a link to the catalog online. They have a flyer about the catalog, but we're supposed to... It says that you can contact them... to get access to it. Would it be possible for us to get access to that catalog to see what's in it? Or at least... That would be informative.

Yeah, because then we could maybe see what they have to work with.

And if it's a catalog piece, I was assuming, hopefully correctly, that we would still be able to submit that for public comment. Because I feel like that is...

I would think then that process could look very similar to the Raven Dialogues process, where you might select a few and put it out for public comment. Keep in mind that I've also learned that there is some much smaller funding for the Emergency Operations Center funding. Building, sorry, that is being constructed. And so there's 1% in the state coffers designated for that one of $1,700. So that one, I figured, let's get through all of this, and you could definitely do the catalog purchase of that and play that out once we get through some of this other work. That would be a little bit easier.

I mean, the decisions would be the same, right?

Except that when we have found out about both these pots of money, you guys have already been planning a fire station project. You have not been planning an EOC project. That's, I think, the big difference. And $20,000 versus $1,700.

He's got to go in for $98,300. Yes. Council sign off on that. All right. Anyway. Any further discussion about this? Any disagreement about the four choices I think we see? I'm seeing? Is that jive with what everybody? Yes.

I wrote down the questions. Let me do some work. And I'll see if I can get Meredith to come to the August meeting too. And if not, I'll definitely have talked to her and get you these answers so that you are prepared to

So if we can't get electronic access for whatever reason?

Yeah, let me try to do that and get it to you ahead of the August meeting.

What I was going to suggest is alternatively, if we for whatever reason can't get electronic access for everybody, a printout or your office or something, Yeah, maybe. I mean, however we want to do it.

That would be quorum. We can't do that. Sorry.

Individually, we come in.

Okay.

Two by twos, however you want to do it. Okay. So I guess with that in mind, maybe we hold off on the theme discussion until we've got a chance to see the catalog. Because if there's nothing in the catalog that meets the theme discussion, what the theme survey is, then that's important. So anyway, all right. Any further discussion on this topic? I guess we'll move on to item D. Item D. Possible approval of priority lists for future deaccession and relocation reviews. Yeah, I think so.

Basically... our working group for deaccession and relocation of projects was that we just kind of ended up always spinning our wheels. So the proposal, which is, I think, a much easier way of prioritizing, is to move to this list of projects in order of what their priority is to take action on deaccessioning or making some decision on repair. And instead of focusing on every single piece in the county of Los Alamos, focusing on working groups one at a time. Yeah, exactly. Getting through those pieces one at a time instead of everything at once.

Did I mischaracterize any of that?

So I think what we're... Looking for feedback on is the order of the priority list.

Chelsea, Jonathan, and I. Yeah, so we met and we kind of reviewed the list that Chelsea came up with, the priorities of what should kind of be looked at. We moved Nexus up and Tranquility down. And then the water fountains went up.

Water fountains.

There's what? What are there? Three or four? Three fountains. There's three water fountain features in the public art collection.

None of them work.

They're all struggling. The piping's all broken. And a lot of times you have to move the entire piece to get it out.

There's three. So there's two in White Rock and then one by the library up here. The one by the library, it's throw rocks, pile rocks on top of it. There's rocks. It's a mess.

It looks like a giant stone wheel almost.

Yeah, it's like a giant stone slab. Because kids are playing with it and messing with it, you don't know. It looks like a table, honestly.

It's by the skate park, but it's on the parking lot side. Or that doesn't...

I seem to recall we had a discussion about getting it fixed, assess the cost, and it was pretty expensive. I think that when we discussed it, the reason why it was broken was just because of temperature fluctuations, right? The normal thermal cycle breaks the plumbing. So it had been fixed before, broke again. So the question at the time was, do we want to go back and pay for it to be fixed again and again?

Have you guys voted to... turn off the water and worry about it later. So this might be later.

Now is later.

And fun fact, the state does not allow, does not purchase water features. So anything that's commissioned or anything that gets contributed into the catalog cannot have a water feature to it. Because, again, because kind of maybe what we're experiencing.

Mountains and white rock. It just looked like giant art pieces. I didn't know they were fountains to begin with.

Is it in the community garden?

There's one in the community garden and one in front of Fire Station 3. Yes. The one in front of the fire station you would have never known was...

I've walked by it many times. Don't even... Yeah, yeah.

So can I clarify something?

Yeah, absolutely.

So what was discussed is that these were the pieces that you guys have all been talking about for the last couple of years. So it made it to the list. And also anything that the Pacific Coast may have identified as something that was concerning, like tranquility. made it to the list. And then, yeah, Jasmine and Andy then prioritized this list. I think there are nine of them on here. And so what they're suggesting, what we're suggesting, is that the working group that they're on is the decommissioned relocation working group, or whatever it's called, that this becomes that work of that working group, and they are done. so we're thinking that working group you guys can vote to close and then each one on the list going down could become you would then say okay it's time to do number one let's form its own working group and then you could work and then you could focus your attention on that one as we do other projects then when that gets done then you could say Okay, now we're ready for number two. If there's ever a time when there's not much going on, then maybe there could be two working groups going at the same time. But this would make it very clear what is happening.

I know something that, and that was a great, I know something else we discussed, and I don't think we need to, like a voter writing or anything, but is that this list should be revisited in a couple of years just to make sure there's nothing wrong.

revisited, but also added to, because in theory, you get through the list, and then more would be visited.

Yeah. I'm not in favor of Jasmine or Andy stopping this never-ending list. I'm just kidding, of course. This is a never-ending list of things.

That's the other thing, too. It's kind of rough when it's just the two of them having to do all of these.

Every piece in the county. Instead of us looking at all the art pieces, now we can focus on just one.

I think this is a great idea.

So there is recommended action if you're interested.

So I guess one quick question. So do we want to hold off on forming the first deaccession team until next meeting? Try and just put something in its place so we don't have a gap in the process? I think we don't need to.

I don't know if we need to hold until next meeting. So just go ahead and fire, pull the trigger down? Especially because of the first... The first one that's on our list is Dino World that we've already been exploring for. You can buy it. No, I'm like... Take it home.

It'd be yours today. Send a screwdriver.

God, it would be so...

I was very surprised when I told my son about that. He was like, oh, I love that. I was like, really?

It was like huge. Kids remember it and they're like, oh, we love it. And the newer generations are like, ew, what is that? It's a generational thing. Oldies are like, we love it.

White's needs its own working group.

That's right. Okay, well, we have a recommended motion here. Anyone want to follow through on this?

I move that the Art and Public Places Board accept the deaccession and relocation priority lists as the board's multi-year guide for the order in which artworks may be brought forward for former review, and that the deaccession and relocation working group be closed.

There's been a motion and a second. I'll take it to a vote. All those in favor? Aye. It's unanimous. And I guess, what's the process for starting a working group?

You get to do that. It's not a vote. The chair gets to write in the working group update.

And the update is, here's a new working group. I'll do that.

That's a great suggestion. That's how I'll do it. Okay. All right. On to the next piece, the working groups.

She told me it would be early

world, of course. It's Los Alamos.

And so... And the strategic plan. The strategic plan.

Oh, the strategic plan, yes. Strategic plan. The update is we are meeting mañana, tomorrow, to discuss it. I will be seeing Stephanie. And we'll work on that some more. We'll let you know.

Working on the deaccession policy update, which then could help you guys on the dyno world, because there's some processes that are kind of murky, and it'd be nice to clarify them. Process of what to do if you can't contact the artist.

That would be something if you guys could focus on that.

And what to do with a damaged piece of art that we can't get a hold of the artist. Typically, if you have a damaged piece of art, you would want to go and get the artist, give it back to the artist. But if you can't, because you can't contact the artist, and it's damaged, are you allowed to sell it? What are you allowed to do with it and what that process is? Because that could be the problem.

If we all want to visit it, we just go on purpose. That's right.

Anything else? Any other comments on the working group updates? Otherwise, we'll move on to the next order of business. I'll do that in the board communication. Chairman's report.

Maybe? No? I think you could do it. You could do it. Why don't you just do it right now?

I'll do it right now. All right. So let's form a working group. Okay. Deaccession of Dino. Would like to be on this deaccession group.

All right.

Let's do it. So that'll be good. have two working groups now jasmine and andy on dino world and anna and i on nexus nobody can complain about arts and public places not getting anything accomplished here good to meet you guys i feel like this is the board that i get things done in it every other board i'm like are we doing anything no great okay and i will so uh i'll let the two boards or the two working groups sort this out and uh there Next is the...

I'll give you guys Nexus information.

Fantastic. We'll keep trying. We're going to have the meetings in a classified location? Yeah.

That would be perfect.

That's right. All right.

Maybe not.

All right. Maybe we won't do it. All right. Next up is the pending items list.

Okay, we got a few, and I have pictures just for fun on this one. The White Rock Pottery relocation. We keep having that one on there because it still hasn't been relocated, but that's because the project hasn't started yet. But I did get word that the trail project with all of that... know whatever we got presented to about that's going to begin in october so i've also got from pacific coast instructions on how to move it or like tips and tricks on how to move it and i've given that to um the project manager who will be um putting that into the contractor information. So, hopefully, the contractor will read it and follow the tips and tricks of our conservator, but we'll see. And they promised that they'll reach out to me when it's time that the contractor is moving it, and so I can be down there. Take pictures at least.

Hypothetically, it gets damaged. How do they handle that?

Well, it needs to be on them, and that's what we've been told. So, hopefully, that is the case, but...

Is there anything wrong with them now?

There's nothing wrong. It's just that they're in the way of the trail now that they're moving it. So hopefully it all goes well. I mean, the conservator said that the pot was in good condition, so it shouldn't be a problem. But right, that is a risk.

Just to refresh everybody's memory, they're moving the sidewalk, is that correct? trail sidewalk yes the sidewalk so the the sidewalk runs parallel to that road I want to move the sidewalk up so that you're sort of moving the pedestrians from the it's that main drag going through White Rock right so I think the reader right redirecting to protect the pedestrians from traffic and you guys identified you all agreed on a play on a new place and we took it to council and council Contractor is responsible. The contractor who's doing the work is responsible for moving the pods.

They are. And it's not going to cost APP funds. It's wrapped into the cost of the project. The Los Alamos Heritage Gate is the new gate at the Senior Center that has been installed. The plaque has now come. I just took a picture of it in a box. Still have the sticker on it.

The sticker that says, do not apply any stickers.

Right. And then the picture below is, if you notice, there's a little highlighted box. That is the location where that plaque will get put. And I have heard that it should be mounted in the next two weeks. So that one's done. The Justice Center wall mosaic plaque. Here is the... is what we're thinking it will say and it's going to get ordered I think tomorrow from the from the company to be put on it's gonna look like the same thing as the heritage gate but it'll say this and then it'll get mounted on the right side of the big mosaic somehow I think one of the things that we when we were at the

It was a discussion about concrete or something. The idea that folks are going to want to walk up to the piece and sort of like... Who are we talking to about that?

So the Parks Department is the one in charge of that space. They keep the weeds down and that kind of stuff. I've talked to them about landscaping. We're going to wait on that to see what drainage looks like and to see what the habits of the... of the community are to make the wisest choice.

For the record, they're going to wait until somebody sprains an ankle.

You're welcome to re-judge it.

No, I'm not going to do that. I should not be funny.

I'm sorry. There's no plan at the moment.

We can create a need for it by trampling that area.

It wouldn't even happen because my husband broke his ankle on the sidewalk. It took three years to fix this.

So, maybe not. Okay, so that's the plan there. And once the plaque comes, it may, yeah, if it goes on the wall or if it gets mounted on a stand like Pollyanna has now or something, I don't know, we can discuss that once we get it and see more about how people are interacting with the mosaics. The Split Infinity, if you remember, that's the wind sculpture that was on the pole at the Mesa Public Library. It fell off. We picked those pieces up and we took them to the art studio. They recycled that piece and turned it into Blooming Lily 3 medium. And it is now... up onto the pole. So we took it to count, we de-assembled infinity, but it's smaller, and came in at 19.

Safety.

I think so, yeah, that's what the aquatic center people said. It's what the lifeguards wanted. I think that'll be, it'll be, that space will be used well, I think.

Okay.

That's all I have.

All right, thank you, Chelsea. Back to the list. Oh, sorry. Staff liaison report. I'm sorry. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry.

I'll continue to talk. I'm sorry. Two things real quick. I just want to let you guys know the art archive that we have, that online where you can go in and see all of the pieces and have the descriptions. And if you want, check it out. I've been trying to, with our new pieces, trying to give more description so that it's more interesting to read, so that it's more about the story of the artwork and maybe how it came about. So check out the new mosaic. I put that one in there. And check out the security gate at the Senior Center. It's more robust and I'm hoping to be able to do that with older pieces and improve the description. Just to make it more interesting when people are in there that they get to learn about it. The company that does that, they are called Creative West. And we contract with them to be able to use that service. And their contract expired May 31st. And so we have a new contract, took a while, a 15-year contract. So it does not expire until 2041. It's, I think it's, what is it? I have to write that down. Well, the total cost of the contract for 15 years is $39,180. And so it's not occurring to me. I think that has to go to council.

Did it go to council?

Oh, gosh. I have to think about that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, because it's spending these funds. I mean, we've already had that approved, and so now we're having, I mean, we went through a whole RFP process. I'm sure council has approved it, but let me double check now that I'm thinking about that. And if not, I will take it to council. But then I've also updated our budget to reflect that full amount. So when you guys are looking at how much is in the bank, it will be less that full 15-year contract, so that we are assured we have enough money for the duration of that contract.

15 years.

15 years. All right. And then, as I mentioned earlier, we do have an APP member application, so I'm waiting on the... on the applicant's response for when is a good time to interview, and then I'll connect with Councillor Rieger and Chair... Next week is really good. It is good for you?

I've got everything out of the way.

So next week, not for me, but the week after that is... All right, well, I'll do what I can and see if we can coordinate something.

Hopefully Brian's in town. Yeah, and I can also do it remotely if we have to resort to that.

Would I be able to step in if Tim isn't around?

I would as vice chair.

Drop the hammer on him, Jasmine. Don't let him get out without answering all your questions. All right. Anything else? All right. So I guess then it's on to me for the chairman's report. So I only have two things I'd like to just – one is I'd like to thank Chelsea. The organizing all the stuff at the library with library folks for the mosaic assembly, that was fantastic. I mean, I know some of you folks, you guys were all there too, but I thought it was great. I thought you did an excellent job. Went off seamlessly. I got to meet your mom. That was nice. Bonus. Yeah, that was a bonus. And so that was great. The ribbon cutting ceremony was fantastic. We had a nice, good attendance from both sides. councilors and the local media. Boomtown was there. They did a nice article on the mosaic and the assembly. So I made it in the local newspaper. I forget which one. Daily Post. Picture of that in there. The other thing that we've that's on my report is a briefing to council. I gave that. Chelsea was very gracious in helping me put together the slides on that. That went seamlessly. There were no questions, no feedback as far as I know. So Thank you. I was present. A lot of things on the agenda at that meeting. And so that went fine. Like I said, they didn't boo me off the stage, so I consider that a win. And yeah. And so those are the two things. I really don't have anything else to report. Council Communications?

Sure, sure. Well, there are a couple of things you've already talked about. We voted to exchange the sculpture and put out the wood sculpture, which I didn't know was already done. That's good. And then the painting, I didn't know that was already done, too, but we approved all those things. I have an interaction with an artist from San Ildefons who did the big pottery. One of the big pots that are on the side, we're just about to move them, and she was kind of talking about how much fun she enjoyed the project, and she wasn't really complaining about But she was going to ask, asking why we're not doing more Native American themed commissions. She's an artist and she does commissions. She really enjoyed doing her project up here, which is right next to the old Sanai ancestral grounds here. So we do have those big ruins, Sancaui and the other one that nobody talks about, which is right next to White Rock, which is... Visible on satellite photos but never talked about on a map. And so she was just kind of wondering if we were ever going to do that again. More Native American themed art commissions that maybe they could participate in. Don't think about it. I don't know where that fits with Fire Station or wherever else. And then the rest, I don't have anything else to add. Anything you want me to bring to council? I'm afraid your question is so hard for me, I couldn't even keep notes on it, but the state process, do we turn our ADK over to the state process? That's kind of the idea. I don't know who to ask, but I'll bring it to council anyway. That's it.

All right. Preview of the next meeting, Chelsea. August 27th.

So, it's another big one kind of like this, even though, I mean, you guys, we're managing time, I think, pretty well. So, what's on there? There? So, the current APP ordinance needs updating. One thing, when I first became the liaison, what, two and a half years ago, one of the big things was about can we take Like when we're purchasing the little silver plaques, they're like $5. And if we have one that we need to replace, we have to go to council to request $5. And is there an amount that could be allowed? Because right now in the ordinance, it says all have to be approved, which seems like a waste of time to everybody when it's $5. So there's some modification to that. There's also, it's how finance is... budgeting us it's very difficult right now because if the ordinance says well doesn't matter sorry we'll talk about this next month that's going to be on next month it's a whole explanation that we're going to have a presentation by the chief financial officer to explain what the ordinance is all about and what the changes look like or the proposed changes what you guys what they want is that you guys approve them or support them so that they can then get taken to the ordinance approval process. They want you guys first to be able to weigh in on that. So that will all happen. I've been a part of that process and I think it's good stuff and I think you guys will be excited to hear about it. There's also, we're working on the deaccession policy updates, and I think after tomorrow's meeting, we will have enough to be able to bring it to the full board and get you guys' opinions and possibly even a vote. I don't know. It depends on how tomorrow goes. The fire station four, all the stuff we talked about, and then whatever else you guys want. Other than the updates. That would be pretty cool.

Anything else anybody wants to add? That being the case, nothing else? It is 7.01 and I will adjourn the meeting.