Capital Improvements Program (cip) Committee - Regular Meeting

So we will go ahead and kick things off. So I will call to order the meeting of the CIP committee for what is today anyway? 21st. 21st, July 21st. Going right down the agenda, we're gonna go right into new business. So as always, we're gonna start off with the overview and presentations. Again, just to remind anyone who might be tuning in from home, this is just an advisory committee. We're trying to come up with a ordered list of projects generalized across the different town organizations. Again, an advisory for those boards to take into consideration as they plan their projects and their warrant articles and capital projects. So with that said, unless anyone has anything else they want to add, we're going to kick right into the Recreation Department.

Thank you for having me. Kevin, nice to meet you in person. I know we've talked on the phone. Nice to see you again. Wonderful to meet you in person. One of these days I figured we'd meet, you know? Thank you for having me here. I'm sorry.

You got a little secret knock to get in over there.

I was too slow, John.

The time is impeccable. She asked about to start the first presentation, so you're spot on. Yeah.

Perfect. Thank you. Nice to meet you as well. I'm Doug Cole, Recreation Director. So this is my first time in front of all of you presenting some of these projects, so I appreciate the time as well. Just brief overview, as you can see through the packet, the proposed projects that we do have in here that I'll be going over. is the renovation. Some of these projects, sorry, I should say, there might see some redundancy in terms of we looking at the actual space allocation being spoken about, but just showing proposal of projects that could be done there with also cost assessments, because I know they came up this year, particularly with the skate park, about as we remove that material in terms of rebuilding it on the existing structure, what it would look like with some of those existing costs. So I wanted to include that in here. as well as potential projects of what could be done on that space, as you see a little bit further down. But included in there as well aside from using the existing footprint of that 17,000 square foot area of the existing skate park. We also are looking at proposal of a of a smaller skate park 8,000 square foot different location with opportunity for phasing and future expansion so in terms of where that would be located that's obviously a conversation to be had but also looking at the costs associated with that in order to get that done. particularly being able to still work with groups that might not be able to, you know, with the funding sources as we go over that to see how would that be funded. And if we're looking to, you know, volunteerism, donations, sponsorships, you know, a smaller project that can be phased out is much more attainable than trying to do the larger project as we do get into that. Then as we work our way down, there's obviously some growing needs, dire need facility space. The Nelson Road tennis courts, as we know, are probably 5, 10, maybe 15 years beyond their useful life. That's something that's not only impacting residents, but school, school programming, recreational programming, and things of that sort as well. I do include some pictures as we get into that. Again, I mentioned the pickleball courts and then looking over at Laffa, just talking about kind of a phased out five year dugout reconstruction program as we try to again bring bring kind of new life into that facility space, modernize it a bit. Again, as you'll see, a lot of our overlying theme is about safety, accessibility and things along those lines. So thank you. So as I kind of said, the overlying theme for most of these projects are listed here. We're going to be talking about safety, efficiency for some of our existing services, preserving capital investments that have been made by the town and taxpayers in the past. This is something that as we're looking ahead here, there's a lot that's been overlooked in terms of recreational spaces. I know we're seeing it with other town projects that are being submitted as well. and now it's a matter of getting those back up, not only to code safety levels, but also making sure that they're viable options here in the future for participants, leagues, organizations, outside groups, anybody that might be using these facility spaces, making sure that they are available to be done and also preserving them, and then coming up and generating a way to continue to maintain those, which is something that we're looking to do as we enter this budget season and as we enter kind of the future of our department here as well. So as I mentioned, expanding recreation opportunities, we've been doing that the last few years. Our numbers continue to grow each year. I think last year in our budget cycle, we were around 335% up in terms of participation just with our programming. That does not include what's going on with the leagues. I know their numbers vary and they're increasing some of their opportunities as well. So looking at expanding their services and keeping things in town, doing it in-house and making sure that they have the amenities in order to do that. ONE THING WE ARE ALWAYS VIGILANT OF NOW IS THE ACCESSIBILITY, ADA COMPLIANCE. SOME OF OUR BUILDINGS AND FACILITIES ARE NOT UP TO CODE WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. AS WE ARE ADAPTING, WE ARE MAKING SURE WE INCLUDE TO INCREASE THAT. CASE IN POINT, THE BASKETBALL COURTS THAT WERE DONE RECENTLY, WE MADE SURE THAT WE ARE ADDING ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES. CUT OUT AN ACCESSIBLE ROUTE THAT JUST THE CURB SPACE NEEDS TO BE REMOVED SO THERE'S COMPLETE ACCESSIBILITY THERE. BUT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO THAT FOR OUR OTHER FACILITY SPACES, TOO, WHETHER THAT'S EXPANSION OR ADDING OF PARKING, ADDITIONAL ENTRANCES, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES. I MENTIONED ABOUT ACID PRESERVATION, BUT ALSO AS WE GO DOWN LOOKING AT PROGRAM ATTRACTION, AS WE LOOK AT SOME OF THESE SPACES, THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES HERE FOR PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE ALREADY RUNNING THAT WE MIGHT BE DOING OFF-SITE. uh paying fees for um for other in other towns and municipalities in order to run our programs because we don't have the space to do it so that's something where we can start doing it in-house again generating revenue that we're going to be able to put back into these facility spaces so that i'm not here again five ten years asking for um you know to be considered for some of these project spaces so uh as we always go down quality of life you know you want to you want the tunnel underberry TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO INCOMING FAMILIES, TO EXISTING FAMILIES, AND THIS IS JUST ONE WAY TO START DOING THAT AS WE LOOK TO EXPAND AND IMPROVE ON SOME OF THESE SPACES HERE IN TOWN. AND THEN OVERALL, JUST LOOKING AS I KEEP MENTIONING, OPERATING COSTS, BRINGING THOSE DOWN, REDUCING THEM THROUGH FUTURE OPERATING COSTS. THE FEE SCHEDULE THAT WENT IN THAT WAS APPROVED LAST NIGHT IS GOING TO BE BENEFICIAL TO THAT AS WE LOOK FORWARD and start putting together these policies that are not currently in place, working with the leagues, getting agreements in place for memorandums of agreement and understanding, working with groups that typically use these spaces and how do we do that to make sure it's a benefit to all that are enjoying the spaces. So that's the broader review on each of these projects. As I mentioned, first project is the actual skate park renovation of that area. This is just a quick AI rendering. I didn't go and get this professionally done, but just an idea of what we're looking to do. So right now it's existing. It's an asphalt. It was a wooden structure, which has a 10 to 15 year useful life. So obviously being 26 years old, we were well beyond that, which is why we ran into some of the problems that we did. not having the funds in order to keep that up to code as needed. So this is looking at a project in the similar square foot footprint that also the best option nowadays is concrete. So there's different options there where you actually do cast and mold placement as well as shotcrete where they can kind of get those curves. They use rebar and everything along those lines to kind of give it different features, and we'd work with local groups and interested parties that would be interested as to what they want this facility space to look like. As you can see, not only is it improved safety and accessibility, we talk about useful life, too. So the last skate park was up to 15 years. This you're seeing with well-maintained area, 30 to 40 years. years worth of Usage that could be done there and it's it's great for all ages. I did just do a quick breakdown project cost That's what so per square footage for 17,000 square feet and is eight hundred fifty thousand dollars So I just wanted to include that in there because I know that came up to in question You know the idea of well, we'll just replace it. What's the cost? It's it's it's a hefty load to get that done but that's something you know, it is an interested party here in town and IT'S A NEED THAT NEEDS TO BE MET. THERE'S A DEMOGRAPHIC HERE THAT'S INTERESTED IN IT, WHICH IS WHY I WANTED TO INCLUDE THIS PROJECT IN THERE. IN TERMS OF FUNDING FOR THAT, THERE'S DIFFERENT OPTIONS. PRIMARY FUNDING, BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING PROPERTY, WE CAN ACTUALLY LOOK AT LWCF GRANTS, THAT'S LAND WATER CONSERVATION GRANTS. AND THEN FOR SECONDARY FUNDING, LOOKING AT POTENTIAL WARN ARTICLES, SPONSORSHIPS, DONATIONS, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES. AGAIN, THE IDEA WITH THIS AND THE NEXT PROJECT, AS YOU WILL SEE, IS MAINTAINING THESE SPACES. HOW DO WE DO THAT? WE START GENERATING INTEREST DOWN THERE WITH PROGRAMMING, WITH CLINICS, WITH INSTRUCTORS, AND AS WE GENERATE THOSE REVENUE SOURCES AND BRING IN, THOSE ARE HOW WE START MAINTAINING THEM YEAR TO YEAR. SO IT'S AN INITIAL UPFRONT COST AND AFTERWARDS THE IDEA WOULD BE COMING UP WITH GENERATING REVENUE STREAMS IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN THOSE SPACES. As I mentioned, the idea of a smaller phased out skate park. Make sure to include some apple trees around there too. Thought that added to the aesthetic. So it's an 8,000 square foot skate park is what's being proposed with the idea of phasing it out. So if we wanted to get back up to that larger piece of property, we again, using these ideas of the generating revenue sources of how we could start doing that. If we have the initial structure in place, we can start again, phasing that out. and make it a new recreation destination from where it is currently to maybe to a newer location. And again, like I said, it supports the future growth of that option here in town. And the breakdown is somewhere across the board. It's about 45 to about $55 per square foot, if you look locally or nationally. So that's what the cost comes down to being. And that would be funded the same way as the last one, through grants, looking at secondary options being warrant articles, sponsorships, donations. The tennis courts, as I mentioned, are well beyond their useful life. I included some photos here as well. These are the only four courts here in town. It's used by not only our residents, our participants in our programs, the school and their teams. And it's one of those things. It's good to have home field advantage. This isn't the one you want to have to know which crack to hit to make sure the ball spins a certain way. So obviously this is now leading into safety issues. So the idea is the full restoration of those four tennis courts. So resurfacing them entirely, improving the fencing, the drainage has been an issue there. And again, making sure we're up to code with ADA accessibility and having those upgrades there and available. So as we've been trying to do that so that's you know with older fencing with older access routes It's not it's not quite up to code As it should be And again mentioning supporting not only our department in the town as well as the school needs So that project cost is three hundred thirty thousand dollars You're looking at that as two different project costs and that includes the hundred sixty five thousand includes two total court spaces So currently we have the four courts in different areas So looking at that Two of those courts cannot be done through LWCF because it has been done in the past. It's more difficult to dip back into that pool, so we'd have to look at different funding sources for that. But we do have two of the courts that were not built. They were built through donations in the past. So there is grant opportunities there, as well as grant opportunities through the United States Tennis Association, who we are now affiliated with with some of our programming options. So there are options there as well that we can start looking into. Most of those matches, whether I mentioned LWCF or the USTA, is a 50-50 match typically. So town would provide 50. Again, there's always the option of looking at donations and sponsorships, but also through budgeting and warrant articles is how we'd be looking to fund some of these projects.

Thank you.

All right pickleball courts again looking at the use of the space that's currently down there. This is as I'm looking at this project, I know I I need to still get the town manager a proposal from our Department of what to do with the space but we're looking at these these different options as we talk to these different groups that have interested investment into what could go on down there so as we look at that court space, I know it's something that's been proposed in the past. In the past, there wasn't a current location. There wasn't an actual number of how many courts. I think it was range six to 11. Now we're looking at, in that particular space, you can fit eight dedicated pickleball courts. Again, down in that area, some of the biggest, aside from already having the footprint, it's one of those options in a project that can be phased out. The biggest need down there right now is parking and accessibility. If you've been down in that way, it's a dirt path that goes around and a lot of overgrowth, so it would be making sure that that's maintained so it's actually usable space. But in terms of getting that off the ground and running, you're looking at a smaller project cost from what it's been in the past. You're looking at replacement of some fencing, putting in the fencing units, painting the lines, and even if it DOESN'T QUITE LOOK AS THE PICTURE DEPICTS RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN AGAIN PHASE THAT OUT AND GROW THAT AGAIN THROUGH GENERATED REVENUE SOURCES. JUST FOR PERSONAL NOTES FROM OUR DEPARTMENT, SINCE JANUARY 2024, WE'VE HAD OVER 400 PARTICIPANTS IN PICKLE BALL AND THAT'S THROUGH OUR OFFERINGS. WE ONLY DO THAT, WE CAN ONLY OFFER 50 UP TO 50 SPOTS PER SESSION THAT'S OFFERED THAT'S THREE TIMES A YEAR AND WE FILL IT EVERY SINGLE TIME BUT THE THING IS THAT REVENUE SUMMIT PART PART OF THAT REVENUE IS GOING BACK TO PAYING ST. THOMAS AQUINAS WHERE WE'RE USING THEIR INDOOR SPACE SO IF THAT MONEY STAYS IN HOUSE THAT'S MONEY THAT COULD BE ALLOCATED TO AGAIN PHASING OUT THIS PROJECT GOING TO THE PROJECT ITSELF I THINK IN THE IN OUR RECREATION REVOLVING FUND WE HAVE CLOSE TO SEVEN EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS THAT'S COME IN REVENUE SOURCE FOR YOU KNOW ON THE TOWN'S END FOR FOR INVESTMENT INTO THIS PROJECT SHOULD IT SHOULD IT START GOING FORWARD SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE NOTE OF THAT LOOKING AT THOSE AGAIN GRANT OPPORTUNITY DOWN THERE BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DIPPED INTO IN THE PAST AGAIN WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT POTENTIAL WARN ARTICLE DONATIONS AND SPONSORSHIPS TO TRY TO TRY TO MATCH THAT LEVEL $200,000 And last but not least, as we're again, we're looking at some aging assets over here at LAFA, just reconstruction of those baseball and softball dugouts. So these are more modern examples instead of the cinder block and the asphalt roof, which while they provide a lot of protection, they give that old school feel. The higher maintenance costs that come along are associated with repairing those is a lot higher than if you're just repairing a section of chain link fence or anything along those lines. So I'd be looking to do one to two fields annually over a five-year total project implementation plan. Again, it improves safety and storage. It's open air. It's metal roofs. It's one of those things you kind of put it there and there's not much you have to do aside from small repairs from chain link things along those lines. So So again, that total project is about $100,000. You're looking at about $20,000 a year. So looking at that, we'd be looking potentially budgeting for that as well as looking at capital reserve increase requests and working with the leagues for donations and sponsorship opportunities too. And then I kind of mentioned all this. So these are the different funding sources that are incorporated with each of the projects. And other than that, I'm open to any questions you may have. Nope.

Oh, you want me to go first? Okay.

Let's go left to right.

I don't care. So I'd like to go back to the tennis courts, if you don't mind. Because that's like a real priority to me. Because the schools need it, the residents need it, it gets really used. To be honest, I don't even know if four tennis courts are adequate. I really think you need like six.

You probably need more. I mean, something we're looking at is potential needs assessment here in town with our department anyways, and I think you'd probably need even more than that. For the size of the population, four courts is not enough courts. And even as you're looking at phasing some of this out, eight courts initially for even a pickleball, you know, a pickleball is a nice start. It's not quite to what you need because it'll fill up.

I'm going to stay on tennis courts.

No, I know.

I understand. I can't. My mind. I'm sorry. So how many tennis courts do you feel in your mind would be adequate? And I know you don't know this. Because I'm looking at where they are, and I'm not sure where you can... really push them because you lose so much parking and then I don't know where you're going to put the parking.

Yeah, there's not much room for expansion up there and yes, parking is already an issue up at Laffa complex. So that's something that's that's why yeah, in terms of expansion, they're probably not so much. I don't know. Maybe the school have an idea of property space they have. when they come up. Um, but we'd have to look at, you know, again, I think not only in the needs assessment, you'd also have to look at, you know, vibe space of a viability here in town as, as we're talking and even looking at the idea of a smaller skate park idea. It's like, where, you know, where would that go? Where's a viable option? Where does the town have land to do these things? Um, you know, but this is something that, as you said, it's a growing, it's a, it's an imminent need that's, that's, you know, needs to be taken care of now. And then, Are there options as we look at that? Maybe it's, you know, as we look and we talk to, you know, United States Tennis Association, is there a larger pool that we can take from to create a bigger project? It would be a matter of having that all together.

In my mind, I don't want to say, oh, and I do think we need to fix these, but... would kind of like to be able to say this is one this is two you know phases this is where we're going because i i know this is not really what we're supposed to do but i'm just trying to help you because i think people in this town feel like they want these services that you know they haven't had a lot of and they pay a lot in taxes and they'd like to see something back for it and i agree um because i feel like especially tennis it goes from you know little kids to older kids from the school kids it it kind of goes generational you know different and so i i i i'm not saying i'm against any of this just so you know i'm actually for it i i'm just trying to figure out how we can be more proactive so as opposed to come back and say oh now we need another four ten is good now we need another and then people get angry and they're like i'm gonna pay for that you know what i mean so i was just trying to like this is planned to me what would be so helpful for this whole thing is a big overview we have x amount of space this is what we can do. I mean, like I was even getting confused when you were talking about the pickleball courts. Like, were you saying they were going down where the lower softball field is, where the men's softball field goes?

No, it would be where the... Just where the skate park is. Correct, yep. So just that footprint alone, that's what's being proposed. There's enough space for the eight pickleball courts right now. So that's just an option. I just wanted people to see, or you to be able to see the various options that could be used in that space, so...

So to me, you have this compound, this area, and you really should be going kind of simultaneously with another compound. So this services north and central, whereas if you had one that was maybe towards West Road, it would be more south and, you know, the central southern part and the north. This would be more for the north and it would be more for the south. So you'd have two areas. kind of sports complexes, public sports complexes with similar amenities. So this way you're saving on design and concept. Am I making any... You're looking at me like I'm crazy.

No, I get what you're saying. I think as I'm looking... As I'm coming into this role and looking at our facility space over the last three years, I look at it as it's in dire need of improvement because it has not been given the resources and funding that it's needed over the years. So now we're coming here having to recreate projects that are already existing capital investments made by the town. So getting them back up to where they need to be and, again, then proving and showing that we can maintain these facilities these systems and these these facility spaces with with you know a general maintenance uh revenue source that's coming in i know that was something that brought up last budget budget um season was how are we going to start creating generating revenue sources so not to run it as though it's a business but sort of that mentality of how do we maintain this on our own where we're not coming to taxpayer dollars similar to what we've been doing with our recreation revolving fund where Staffing is now coming out of a general fund. That's all coming out of what we're able to generate through revenue sources because of programming. It would be the same idea here as we're fixing these up, getting them where they need to be, and then we can start maintaining them by the efforts of the department to offer more camps and amenities and different things that we can do here to maintain that. Then my idea is looking at expansion. I get to do it all in one big swing, But right now we have the space. It's deteriorated beyond its useful life. So fixing it now so it's useful for those purposes. And then we can go and continue to do that and expand.

So if you think about it the way I just said it, you have two of them. Just keep in my head, right? And then this one is one big project in phases. You say tennis courts because I think that's a priority, but you obviously know what the priority is. So tennis courts, and to me the next one would be the skate park because those people did come forward and they're pushing. And I know people want pickleball, but you say phase one, phase two, phase three. It all happens within five years. This is the whole cost. We got the same concrete guy that's going to do the same fencing. And people could see an overview. Like it's easier for them – conceptual people a visual you're talking about combining all of the projects into one general project broken out into phases so that it's not you know choking it down their throat but it helps by see these pictures are nice but imagine if you came in here with this okay we have this amount of space all of this is kind of wasted we fix this little piece now we want to take this and turn it into this We're doing it phase one, phase two, phase three. And I think the general public would be able to say, oh, wow, that's awesome. You know, the park will have a path that goes here. We're going to you know, so it kind of shows how it all comes together to one cohesive complex, because I really think that that. is something that people want, a complex. I can park here, I can walk over to the library with the little ones while the bigger ones are playing baseball or basketball, and I can go over here. Do you know what I'm trying to say? They'll visualize it better. In my mind, so when you're putting it together, it would be nice to see, you know, when it budget seasons, when you're looking actually for the money. And I know this takes a long time to do, but that's the kind of, you know, there'll be a little pocket park here. There'll be a little water element here. There'll be bubblers or whatever. I don't know what you're going to put in there, but you know what I'm saying.

I got you.

So that to me is, you know, you just need numbers would be good. How many people you have using those tennis courts on a regular basis? You just said 400 people use the pickleball, right? How many people use the skate? You just got to kind of put the numbers in there. And yeah, the safety, the ADD, the compliance, we're definitely behind the eight ball on that. And it's a good thing that they brought the park up to code a little bit. But those are the only things, you know, that... I can see. The other thing is on the baseball, it would be nice if you included some solar on those metal roofs so that you could light the lights with the solar from the, bleach it from the, dear Lord, why can't I talk? Dugout, dugout solar. Something like that. That's kind of cool. And it's, you know, environmentally good. It cuts your electric bill, which will save you money. Right?

Yeah, well, I can look into it and I'll be happy to do that. Yeah. Sometimes it's, yeah, most of them are up to impact rating. So, you know, I'm just thinking of foul balls and things like that, but we can look at it. So there's definitely options, I think, with space where we could look at.

um even on some of the light towers on the actual candles you can you can put um you can put solar power for that i believe lacrosse has it for their scoreboard correct yeah so on those those lights we're talking about they sell those things they're not windmills but they they like look like barrels like this and they go like this and they they're wind oriented but they do energy And they would light up lights as well. Again, it's just cost effective. It's such a replacing them and fixing them and whatever. And I think the town manager had said that right now that we're running out of time with that federal money for solar. You get like a rebate when you buy into any kind of wind or solar energy, any kind of, you know, clean energy bill is that you get that rebate. So if it costs $100, you get $50 back. So that's, you know, kind of a good time to kind of put that into the mix. But I like all of this. That's my only. Nope, nope.

That's all good.

They told us positive and negative.

I note on this obviously all these can't go. I see that too you can put 3 things in place. So some of these are going to come off. We have received credit from wrong no feedback whatsoever from the skate park people I can barely hear you Sean, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I should probably close to Mike. Thank you. So obviously all three things can't happen on this space, right? And the skate park people have not gotten back to us. So by the time we get to the end of this process, those projects, if without that feedback, without that community commitment, are gonna go to the unassigned projects list, and they won't get placed on a year. So that's how that's going to have to go, which will limit this because fixing the – I mean, this is one of the first things. The first week I got here, I went and I looked at this, the tennis courts, and they're pretty – they have a serious problem. They're going to have a safety issue. They're going to get to the point where they have to close them. and that I don't think we want to do. So looking at $165 each year for FY2029, that would be done most likely through a capital reserve fund to be able to have the funds to be able to do that. You really don't want to do both at the same time because you've got underground drainage issues there. So we're probably going to have to wait until we get the full amount to do it right while they're deployed out there and deal with that underdrain issue because that's clearly what I'm doing. I'm not an engineer, but I can see that you've got a water problem underneath it, and that's why you've got this subsistence going on. to at least maintain what we had, never mind try to expand. That's probably the most realistic thing we're going to be able to do during this period of time.

Well, and I understand. And I understand how tight the budget's going to be this year after last night's meeting. I totally understand. But I think it's always good to be positive and optimistic that... In the future, this could happen here, and isn't this a wonderful thing to go to?

That's why it's important now to have, normally you just had the six years, but now you have an assigned project list. So when you do apply for grants, they are in our CIP that is not programmed for a year yet, so it allows us to pull projects off the shelf, and we get a group that's actually able to raise some private funds. It's on there because they want to see that you've got a plan, as you talked about, and those projects are in that plan. We didn't have that before, so that's what we're going to be doing now. So some of that's going to get rearranged. As you know, some things already came off as of last night, council approved projects, which took them off the CIP. So we're making progress here, positive progress. Anything else on rec?

Well, thanks for popping my bubbles.

Well, I'm just trying to add a dose of real.

I was very excited about a big overview. I was all waiting to see that. Well, we have that overview, which is. Beautiful complex to make my high school up in money. Go ahead.

Well, I mean, obviously, you have the spreadsheet that shows you in the years trying to be programmed to be done. I understand. And actually, Dave Wall, I did a pretty good job when he has one of those when he did this back parking lot piece here. So we can show that to you.

For me, it's just a comment I've heard at least three or four times this year. Why doesn't London area pick all courts? Litchfield has them, and they're a much smaller town than we are. It's really odd that we don't have them. And I mentioned it was on the ballot a few years ago, and they went, it was? So, you know, it's good to see them back in here because there's a lot more people who are talking about pickleball courts and how we should have them. So I'm happy to see that as a project that may happen.

I think my mentality going forward is a lot of these projects should be town-driven with town focus. So even when we worked with Restore the Wrecks, you know, there's a lot that they – They're a volunteer group and there's a lot that the town can do to assist and make sure that we're driving that project, making the right people informed, making sure projects are done. I think a couple years ago, that was not how the task force was set up. So I think going forward in the future, whether it's a task force or whatever group might be advocating for that, it would be driven through our department to kind of make sure that people are aware there's different resources we can tap into to make sure these projects are in the limelight.

Good. Okay. Thank you.

John?

yeah um tennis courts i i know my kid my son plays on the varsity team and uh those things are a mess um so i see a real need for that just even preserve the what we have um and it's well located and um the pickleball courts though where i think deb might ask this question where are they

So the idea is to use the existing footprint of the skate park that's been removed down below by going down Nelson Road, Nelson Field there. Okay.

And you said 400 people are in your program?

We've had over 400 participants since beginning of 2024. So we were utilizing the Lundary Middle School at one point with literally taping lines on the ground for them to play, and now we're utilizing St. Thomas Aquinas has three indoors courts that we use, but we pay a fee per hour over there. yeah i just i just wonder like that's like one percent of our population i don't know if that would grow if we had courts so we have i mean to be fair that number we have returning players that do that as well that so it's not just 400 straight but we've had i could get the actual number of how many individual participants have participated but we've also had wait lists and when we can we're limited to 25 per class and we offer two different sessions so Um, I think there's definitely room for expansion there. Some people can't get in, you know, at all because those that are enthusiastic get in and they sign up, uh, you know, as soon as the dead, uh, as soon as the registration deadline opens. Yeah.

Well, out of all four projects, project three, the tennis court, I see a need for that because it's actually goes in coordination with the school system and you need a court to have a team. And I think, we've had a tennis team forever um the other projects i don't know if we're just i mean the skate parks i don't think there's a school program that supports skate parks or i mean um there's a lot of other alternatives for that and pickleball there's a lot of different uh private facilities you could go and attend, but I definitely see a need for getting those tennis courts restored.

Yeah, so I agree. The attendance courts are, to me, the number one priority. I definitely like Deb's idea of a longer-term idea, too, of once we get these up and going and back to where they should be, saying, hey, where can we put another four to really expand the town as a long-term goal. So I think it's a very good call-out. I look at the pickleball as there is a strong push for that. that area is kind of going into the point of something needs to be done with it. You know, if that's the current driver, then that to me would track as like the next thing on the list. And identifying where that skate park would then be because I certainly don't want to lose track of that. Again, the West Road area is a great idea. There's land available. I don't know what's town and what's not there. I know it's not for this discussion right now. But to me, that's the next thing is, you know, like, hey, let's identify that and figure it out. Because, again, I don't want to lose track of that. I think it's a fantastic project. I like all these projects, frankly. I just, you know, I think everyone is looking at the tennis courts. They'll be like, wow, those should have been done. YEARS AND YEARS AGO SO THOSE ARE LIKE CLEARLY THE LET'S GET THEM DONE ASAP TYPE ONE I SEE YOU KNOW VALUE IN ALL OF THEM FOR THE COMMUNITY FOR SURE THOUGH CERTAINLY YES UM DO WE CURRENTLY HAVE A OR ACTUALLY DOES THE REC DEPARTMENT CURRENTLY HAVE A CAPITAL RESERVE FUND UH YEAH TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS OKAY UM

The other thing that I just want to kind of so much was in each yeah, that's what the balance is a different.

Corporate sponsorships have we done more to kind of plant the seeds and kind of engage with some of more of our corporate partner or court Rick neighbors or is there a plan to kind of just say hey we're here, we can do this, blah, blah, blah for you, just to kind of plant that seed and really start to... I have not yet, but that would be my plan as I start, especially as I get, you know, just taking this over, I'm in the middle of the summer, so once the summer stuff's over, yeah, I might start to... Yeah, no, I would definitely suggest that, just because it's going to, you know, eventually you will hopefully get to a point where we may want to ask for assistance and it's you want to ask probably in the fourth or fifth meeting not the first one um but just uh just to kind of like start that and that's why it's really important to the town manager's point having these on the cip just to kind of say hey these are the needs that of our community we're planning for it's a multi-year aspect we it can trace back right to the cip how would you feel about investing and putting your name on a tennis court for X amount of money? I don't know if that's an effective strategy or not.

No, it is one of the options. I mean, naming rights, or you can do annual naming rights. You can do for sponsorship packages like that, too. So, yeah, there's definitely different options, especially when it comes to recreational spaces.

One of the things to think about is we have two PUDs and a third one being proposed. The regulations say that they need to have recreational facilities that can be on-site or off-site. So it might be worth it to have those discussions. I know that the Villages of Technology Hill is looking to expand, so they're going to have to come back. We certainly have Woodmont that I don't know if they've contributed anything towards recreational resources. And we have a new one that's being proposed that has such facilities on their property. But then they'd have to maintain them afterwards. And even though they're supposed to be available to the public, I'm kind of skeptical as to whether or not the organization that's going to run it afterwards would actually allow the general public. But maybe they might be more interested in contributing to a project down here that their residents could use in our larger community. And they may not need to maintain. Right in the long term, exactly the operational cost. So there's a way to meet perhaps that we could work with these folks to find another way to solve this problem, which is the nature, but it goes along your point though, corporate sponsorship, it's the same kind of very similar concept. Yeah.

And definitely kind of, you know, having the town think like that, I think is something that, you know, we have an opportunity to kind of move forward with and it's definitely something I'm incredibly open to. Yeah, I'm assisting where I can. Okay, appreciate that.

So, can I say one more thing? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I think for me, it's tennis courts, the lava field, the dugouts, and then the pickleball and skateboard are kind of on the same parallel with me. But I really think to say what Jeff just said, this big picture is going to help you. So even when you're pitching, which I personally would love to be able to help work with you on this. I've said that before. It's kind of a thing I like to do. You need, how do I explain this? You need to show them that it's not just this spot, it's this spot and we're gonna grow and we're gonna bring in so they can see, okay, well I can spend here, I can spend here, I can do this. So that also helps. That's why it's good to have, have the camera up here looking down at everything and then say, well, this is number one, this is number two, this is number two, number three. And in number one, we have A, B, C, and D. And in number two, we have A and B. And in number three, we only have D. And this way, the residents, I think, and even for budgeting, you can kind of it's this is the bundle it's like HBO you know here's your bundle you get all this stuff because you're bundling it and that's when you go pitch somebody you can say not only you're just gonna get this one tennis court you're gonna get here you're gonna get this you're gonna get that this is where they have all the you know and and the tennis thing to me is you know maybe you even price out putting all the tennis courts, because it is a school thing here, and having Pickleball and Skateball Park down at West Road separate because they're two separate things. Because you could have tournaments here, tennis tournaments, which we're missing out on with different schools because we don't have a place for it. Which can bring a lot of money. I know as someone who started the whole Booster Wrestling Club deal with a couple other women, we brought in a lot of money running tournaments, wrestling tournaments. We bought all the mats, the clocks, the singlets, everything. It's just, I'm just saying. I wish one of the tennis people were here because they would be able to...

Oh, I know who to contact about that.

I'm sure you do. But do I make sense to you or no? Yep.

Absolutely.

Any other questions for Doug? Yeah, could I ask a question in regards to you guys brought up some interesting concepts with funding it in alternative ways. If you were to fund it, like say the baseball dugouts, in alternative ways, could you do that at any time? Or are you restricted as, like, so if it's $20,000 a year, and you had a very successful fundraising campaign, could you, and you raised 20 grand, could you go and do it at any time?

Yes. We can accept, the council can accept donations and grants during the year to do those. So they do have the authority to do that.

So you could get that process started Now now maybe not a few of these things are the that's one of the ballpark.

We have a net spreadsheets getting smaller because we have projects with us to prove last night that came off roof projects and all of these things are in motion a lot of.

All right. I think if that is all we got. Doug, thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Great job. And that moves us along to our second president of the night, the school district.

All right, everyone. Thanks for listening to us tonight. I'm Amity Small. I'm the business administrator for the Londonderry School District. And here with me is Bob Slater, school board member. So we're pretty excited to be here. For the past several years, our CIP had a proposal about full-day kindergarten and a district office, and those were our main priorities. So as of July 1st, we are really digging in thanks to successful vote partnership with the town. So we feel very strongly that we really hit home runs with our big projects, and they're off the table. Now and we know that the town has some priorities, but we still have things that are important to us that we're sharing with you today One of which is is out for us, but we want to have it listed on the CIP So when we're ready to move that we can And this is a good segue to your end of conversation with the rec department to explain Some of the things that we want to do and some of the strategies that we're utilizing to get there So in really looking at where we are now, we have athletic fields that are used heavily by our student athletes, but also by town recreation. A lot of outside organizations will use our fields with our kids and we had a study done in 2024 to look at our fields and where they were a very complete study from huntress sports and they went through each of our fields and said where they were we have some great things working for us but the number one thing to preserve your fields is rest and aeration And we don't have a lot of time where our fields are not utilized to get the rest. So they felt pretty strongly that turf could help us with that. So that's kind of what sparked us looking at turf, though our athletic director has looked at that for a very long time for us as a Division I high school to not have turf. We're one of the few in the state that don't. uh so to be competitive that had been there but then it was a real solution to some of the problems that we see with our fields additionally our high school is very old phase one of the high school has a wood frame there's a lot of issues with it it needs to be brought up to some more clear ada compliance it needs a lot of attention so we feel that we want to have that there in addition to the auditorium we'll talk about that while why they are together right now and where they might go in the future when we're ready to act and see where they would go so we're going chronologically if we look at them we are hoping for fiscal year 28 to have the first phase of turf Installed on our campus from there We'd like to go to turf phase two to expand on that facility to make it more of a hub to have the Press box the concession stand all of the amenities that would come with a facility like that but our first priority is to get the field in for our athletes as quickly as we can and and then from there looking at fiscal year 30 to 33 we'd be looking probably at five years at least out to talk about the auditorium and the high school so if we look at them right now the turf field is running for the field lights fencing to get it playable for our athletes for the first project would be about $2.5 million. The second phase to add those amenities and the rest of that campus would be about the same. And then we right now are saying $40 million, but we would really need to do some engineering studies and architectural plans to look more deeply into that. So that project is still a question mark. So if we look at the initiation phase of our turf field, we want to enhance our service capacity, be able to give our fields rest. um and the more we delay this the more wear and tear on our grass fields that we have which have some issues safety is a an issue keeping the best fields we can for our athletes both in the town and in the school system is important our campus is a community hub for all of these programs we have a 70 participation rate in athletics that use this field additionally the spring in new england is tough so we spend tens of thousands of dollars on facilities for indoor tryouts for things like baseball or having to practice for lacrosse indoors any of these things that we have to build into the budget if we had a turf field you can play that much earlier in the season you can dry it out the right tools are important to have for that. And it's a misnomer that a turf field only benefits one athletic team. In fact, it benefits a ton of athletic teams. It benefits soccer. It benefits field hockey. It benefits football. It benefits our band. It benefits lacrosse. All of these fields using the turf would preserve the other field. So while we're using the turfs, the other ones are regenerating so we have better practice fields, better opportunity for other groups to use our fields and preserve the life of them. Right now, for instance, our varsity field hockey girls play on the Matthew Thornton field that is also used for PE classes for Matthew Thornton. So to have a turf availability right now, there's holes because a third grade had a gym class there. And all the things that the grounds has to do to take care of that but having turf preserves the same conditions for all of those sports while identifying some of the grass field issues So it has both a play and a financial benefit for us. And you can see as you go through and look at the sports study, if we had that centralized all-weather turf facility, we would be guaranteed safe, continuous play, and the community rec program would have more opportunities as well. And if we go to the one after that, the next one as well. This kind of shows you, while you have the centralized turf, you can see that the other fields are resting because you can take all of the players from the different fields from the different sports to go there, including the band, to be able to do that. They absorb the impact in a way that a grass field doesn't. It has that rest and recovery and then it compounds the resiliency of all the fields for you to be able to have this one field really generates the 14 other fields that you would have going for you. So that's what we're excited about. I think it's important for us to talk that we have, for the past almost year and a half, we have been talking about realizing that we're trying to save this cost from going to the voters. So we started meeting with a turf committee capital projects group. about ways that we could approach the community. We have spent the past year and a half talking about different businesses, talking to connections that we have in other towns who have been able to do this. Wyndham Woods, great example, you've probably seen them on MUR, what they're able to build, what they've been able to raise through a donation campaign. So we've learned a lot of the tricks of their trade. We've built infographics. We have built our quote unquote pitch. And they actually had the group had its first pitch this week. And we're pretty excited about it. We feel like we're ready to take it to at least. eight or nine other businesses that we were able just between the group to kind of network and figure out what we have there. So our intent is to raise as much as we can through our pitches, through corporate sponsorships, through different connections that we have for things like naming rights to try and get this literally on the ground through a donation campaign. And once that takes off, you know, we'll report, we'll look at where we are at the end of the fall and continue to do that. And because we didn't want to go out of the gate to get the 5 million because it's so important to us to get this first phase, just get the field. the lighting, the fencing, so that we can start to preserve our other fields. And once people see that that's successful, we feel like the second phase to get the other half of it for the amenities to it would be what would come next to see who might like their name on the concession stand or who might like their name on a locker room. So the second phase for the $2.5 million would be looking at those things. These are just some AI-generated projects pictures to show you but this is what the actual field we hope would look like and That would be the location. It would be behind the track field. It gives us a little more space To add a little side place for other sports to practice while the game field might be being used It gives us more room to make it More ad a compliant with some of the parking and in going from there Anything

Yeah, we're pretty excited about this. Like Amity said, we started the capital campaign committee roughly a year and a half ago, brought in different corporate, local corporate people to get some feedback, some... um, ideas from them. Um, and we've kind of compacted from a large group to a small group to really focus on delivery and reaching out to as many as we can. We have like a top 10 list that we're starting with. Like I said, our first presentation was yesterday, uh, with a, with a local bank and, um, went, uh, we thought went very well. Um, and we'll wait for some feedback and that's what we want to do because they know people, outside of our world that may be interested in that so uh... like we started last year with the district office project in the working group there this is another way to tried to work another group of community businesses to be part of our public schools we know they support our public schools And I think in turn down the road as we start Lancer Academy, this is gonna be another toolbox for them to get juniors and seniors into their internships and that and opportunities for our students, as well as the companies to get future employees. So if we can raise this initial 3 million to get the fields, the lights and the fencing and the scoreboards, that gets it operational. Then we go for, as Amity said, the bleachers and the concession stand, the locker rooms, and different naming rights will go along with that. When you put the lights up on a field, we only have two fields with lights at the school, so you're minimized, and if there's any weather, you can't use the fields. This opens up time slots for all our groups to have an hour and a half up till nine, 10 o'clock for the kids to practice if need be, so they can have a safe practice area. We are one of the only Division Ones without a turf, so when we go to play the Nashua's, the Manchester's, the Salem's, it's a big disadvantage to our athletes. because they get to practice on the areas that they play. They're able to practice a lot longer. They're not indoors in the spring. They're outdoors getting full field practice out in the elements and that. So there's a whole different set of preparation. We can make sure our kids are outfitted with the right proper footwear. because there's different footwear for turf as there is for grass so we go down to Salem we don't have the proper footwear for our kids because they're used to playing on grass fields they're not going to carry two sets of cleats now we would be as prepared as any other division one school in our athletic program and be safer for our kids uh... which our trainers can better prepare them to be able to play on turf or grass depending on what school we're going to visit um we're tremendously excited about this like we said our first presentation was yesterday um we'll wait for some feedback next week on that we're setting up two more hopefully for the end of next week or the following week and we're just uh laying this out there trying to get the input and get our corporate so they can have corporate events and have corporations seeing our public school system. It's never really been done in the public school sector. It's all private schools that raise their funds for fields and that. But we feel as though our Londonderry residents are great to our schools. Don't get us wrong. And we respect that tremendously. Why not with the client base we have in Londonderry with businesses to get them even more involved into our schools? and be a partner and you know and sponsor you know naming rights or or or uniforms or teams whatever we can do to promote their businesses as they are supporting our our public schools uh... all we hear in the news today is school spend too much school spend too much But a lot of people have no idea how schools are run. We do. And I think we do a really, really good job in the state of New Hampshire with Londonderry schools. And I can compare you to other districts that are really close in our size and show you the difference over the last four years. And it's millions of dollars that Londonderry has done to put into our education programs. So instead of just coming right out of the gate and asking our taxpayers for four or five million dollars, we're going to go to our partners in the community is our local companies and offer some of our students that could be potentially future managers or line workers or whatever they may be and have them invest in our schools even more. rather than just through the tax base. So I think it's a win-win for the community. I think public schools need to do more of this, not just Londonderry. I think other districts should look at it as well. And we're going for it. And I'm hoping that we're here in budget season, you know, looking for a Warren article to move forward with this next year. Because as you know, it's a public school. We still got to go through the voters and that, and we'll figure out the financing part of it, you know, as we move along here. But it's an exciting time, a lot of work, a lot of energy has gone in with our athletic director, with Amity, with our superintendent, with other school board members. But we're trying to do everything we can to not burden our taxpayers. And that's our job, right, as elected officials, is to try to do everything we can. And we tremendously support our taxpayers for what they do for our schools already. But we need to get to this level because our fields are getting – we've shut one field down this year. Panther Park is closed. It is unsafe to play on. All our fields – been built by volunteers one man bob lincoln built fields every summer drainage for 25 years 30 years in our town and they were built you know with with hand and shovel and somebody on a dozer and not professionally built and proper drainage and maybe some stuff buried that might shouldn't have been and and now it's showing after that's where we after after decades They are starting to settle and be unsafe. And we're at a point, do we want to spend 300,000 on this field, 400,000 on this field, where we could put one facility that can do so much more for our community with our youth football teams use the fields on the weekends for football. If it's raining, they tear up a field. Now we can host that and have everybody in a safe environment. So we are excited about this. we're hoping it gets to the finish line before budget season ends, that we can come forward and put a shovel in the ground next summer, next fall. It's about eight months. Once we have the first initial amount to get our permitting and, and plans built in that through huntress. And then, uh, then we will be on, be ready for the following year and that for service. So, uh, appreciate your time. Just wanted to give a little history on that. Uh, Our people up at district office have worked extremely hard to put this together and give us the information. And now we're out there trying to meet with these local companies. Thank you.

To your point, Jeff, it's a great strategy. We didn't realize how much it would take. I think we thought, oh, we met a few times. We'll go ask some businesses for money. But it has been quite a learning curve to do it. But if we can build it and learn those mechanisms, I think there are some great possibilities.

That's where kind of, and I apologize, Lancer Academy, too. I think you're just kind of showing the community, yeah. We have students that want to get professional work experience, that want to work in modern industries. We have this awesome program, and it's building those types of relationships as well. You're not going to, but definitely don't underestimate the power of that.

So those are our projects that we're looking for for FY28 and 29, hoping to get as much through corporate sponsorship and donations as we can. And then... into our longer term is the phase one in auditorium. And again, this is more of a placeholder. We have talked to the state. We would be eligible for building aid for this, but building aid is a process with the state and you're not guaranteed the money. decide that you're ready for the project then the district has to invest in getting the plans over the goal line having everything ready and then you can submit it and then you might get approved but then they might run out of money before in that first year so then you have to wait but it definitely has the potential to help us fund this and then it would be a bond article that would come forward with that but we don't have a lot of the plan. So we're keeping, we had a heated talk about this at the district office. Do we do auditorium separately and phase one separately? But we don't know until we dig deeper into what the cost would be and where we would go because phase one is a safety. Auditorium is cited in our lack of services for NESC accreditation every time we go through it. So that could ultimately come forth as two different projects in the future. Is it true?

And just all of this is part of our strategic plan.

Yep.

Just wanted everybody to know that these are key components in our strategic plan that was developed several years ago to hit those points and that. So that's a key point. And I know the town is looking at that as well. And that will be very instrumental for the town moving forward, too, because it's worked for us on the school side very, very well. So.

It's always less expensive to build more all at once than it is smaller projects in many phases. So there is cost savings there to do it as one thing.

Yeah, so those are our three that we are sharing with you tonight, and we're happy to answer any questions.

I guess so. So per field one, is an existing turf. I mean, is it exist, an existing field. But turf field two is a new field, so an additional field.

So turf phase one is the installation of the turf on a space that we have, but it's not currently. So it's not a field, so.

It's a practice field right now. It's a practice field.

It's a practice field, so you're not adding a new field.

We have no turf at all.

Well, you guys said all the positives, so I'm going to cut through my positives and go straight to my negatives, which I'm sure you're going to hate me for. But I feel I have to do it, sorry. No problem. So in this presentation, there was no life cycle cost analysis for the replacement required every eight years to the turf fields. There was no disposal plan for the PFASs that turf peels are made of. That can exceed at least $200,000 every single time you have to get rid of them. That's the cost right now. Also, no PFAS analysis despite the known issues within Londonderry, so I'm worried about water runoff, drainage, you know, what's the environmental condition going to be around these fields? This is a big health risk for our children and for our environment. There is really no real data for the injuries and for the heat risks, so this turf can reach up to 150 to 850 degrees Fahrenheit, which is a lot hotter than the dirt's going to get. I already said the environmental review runoff microplasties into the groundwater could be of an impact. No usage data shown for the fields need grass options. They have that high Where is that 1? Hold on. Give me 1 2nd. It's the hybrid upgrade natural graph gas. Grass systems that seem to be coming into play now, as opposed to. Turf and so there was no, like, looking at that is an option. You know, there was a lot of no real comparisons there, like, of options. Also, the data. I mean, they're saying that turf is worse for ACL injuries, ankle injuries, concussion rates are much higher and different on turf than on grass. So there's pros and cons. You could sit there and Google it all day like I did, trying to understand all of it, because... I'm not a fields technician and nor do I want to be a fields technician, but I saw pros and cons. And so I really, you know, you guys did a great job with the pros, but you didn't address the cons and how you would address them. So I think that that's really, really important when you're dealing with these turf fields.

And, you know... So to address one of them, so we have our liability insurance for the district through Primex. So we've talked with them. So they told me that they have seen an increase in lower extremity injuries. However, they said those are usually Because they have not been maintained correctly and the students are wearing the improper footwear So this would be it would be a change as Bob referred to Where our coaches would need to make sure that the kids are wearing the proper footwear managing that as well as our grounds group who we did bring into the process and part of that is the maintenance and having the right tools for the field which they are aware of. We have a top notch grounds crew and we have a capital reserve for buildings and grounds. So our intent would be to work in. So every year for the past several years, we have put in $100,000 into our capital reserve for field improvements and maintenance. Our hope would be to use some of that to fund the tools So that we would properly maintain it to make sure that we are doing our part to address the injury part of it The turf wouldn't be used through the hottest months for the most part the the seasons wouldn't start until the end of August a lot of the field use that we have in the summer is softball and baseball which wouldn't be on the turf and

Well, I still, as far as the injuries, I really, I kept seeing that it was really bad towards turf, more so than grass. The injury rate, I really would like to see your data personally. Anyway, but the PFAS is a real issue. That's what that stuff is made of. This is a real problem in town. We already know how bad it is and we know the health issues with it. I mean, we protected our fire department by getting them new fire gear that didn't have it. Now we're going to put our kids on a ground that has it and have it run off into an area that little kids will be playing in. I have a real concern with that and to make sure that we're environmentally sound with that. It's important. It's our number one duty. So I think there's a little bit more research that needs to be done on things like that. So that's that. And I'm very, very pleased. I also don't know what the stadium, how you're going to accommodate parking. There's a real issue there with parking. So again, with the big perspective, maybe it would be better to say, This is kind of how we're going to adjust. We're going to put in a parking garage. I mean, maybe you put in a four-story or three-story parking garage. I have no idea, but that really needs to be addressed because if you've got a couple of things going on in that area, it can be a nightmare. Yep. And that's not being negative. That's being truthful. Oh, no, I think we've had that conversation. We've already had that. Well, I didn't know you had it. Yep, yep. And, you know, I saw your school board meeting, and, you know, you were already thinking that there are too many kidney gardeners, so people who were probably using daycare are now going full day kidney garden. So now we've got too many kidneys, and we're running short of space. And I'm thinking in my own head, We're going to end up needing another school or adding on to schools to accommodate for these amount of kids, which is great. I love kids. I think it's wonderful. But I am glad that you're thinking about separating the other two because safety is priority in my mind. Auditorium is a wonderful thing to have, but knowing everything going on and all the costs, and I think you're right. It needs to stay on here to keep it front of mind. to keep moving forward. I don't disagree with you there, but the building safety would be first. And now Bob's going to yell at me.

No, no, no. As far as all the safety and that, we've contracted with Huntress to do our field study. They get all the permits, state requirements, and that. So I am sure if there are any requirements with PFAs and PFAOAs.

They might not even think of it.

it's got to go through the permit process at the state and there's i'm sure requirements for that i know that the turf systems have changed over the last three years salem has the newest system and it's a white pellet now it's a more of a organic material that they use not rubber not water so they have changed there's additional padding systems that are better than others and the life expectancy all depends on how many events you have we have done this research we have been on this for okay two years um That's why we hire the professionals to make sure, and that's, like I said, it takes about eight months, Deb, to do the state permitting, because you have to go through the state EPA and all that for the runoff, to your point. And that's why you need to hire the qualified.

And I'm sorry that I don't trust the state, because I'm not saying anything against you. I mean, they told us St. Cobain was good. They said PFOAs, I just have some sort of distrust.

but they have requirements we have to follow, so that's all we want our contractor to do. And I do appreciate about the injuries, but every town you're looking at is going to this new system, making sure the footwear is there. That has been the biggest thing, as I hit on earlier, is we send kids down, say at Salem, and they have turf and they got regular grass cleats. It is. It's a concern. So now we have to tell our kids to have multiple cleats if we're playing on grass or playing on turf, whether it's soccer, whether it's lacrosse. So that's a responsibility that our athletic department does a very good job and our athletic director. So this is a positive thing.

thing for londonderry that everybody can use and you don't know how many weather events that games are canceled and it's just impossible to make them up and uh just again i'm not saying i'm for or against it i just want to make sure we do it right and really dig down i haven't seen your studies so i don't know i only know what i can find online you know what i'm saying and i want to make sure i bring it forward because that's my due diligence otherwise i get yelled at I get yelled at anyway, so it don't matter, I guess.

Thank you.

Yep. Go ahead, Jeff.

Yeah, no. And I, you know, kind of following kind of this entire progression of like where it started a few years ago, even having it tied back to your strategic plan. Um, it's, you know, this is how it's probably supposed to work. Um, so it's, it's, it's refreshing to see it come this way. Um, very confident that, you know, obviously, and, I, Deb, I absolutely appreciate that, you know, kind of that safety and that research that you did. I wasn't even thinking about the PFAS thing, but obviously, you know.

I didn't either.

Yeah, no, so that's definitely something that I'm sure you're gonna confirm all of that. That's not really something that I'm overly concerned with. Just a question, these fields, you said that they wouldn't be used in the summer, but would we put like, have summer camps or anything along those lines?

So I think that would come down to the athletic director Kind of seeing what was a lot like what we do now. Where do we have spaces for people? We'd have to monitor the weather closely and make sure everybody was ready for it. I think to your point about injury, you want people using it that know what it's capable of and having the kids ready. So we would have our athletic director be the gatekeeper for that.

Does it open us up? And I apologize if you covered this in your initial conversation. Does it open us up for sponsoring statewide tournaments? Parking, obviously, is the concern there. But if there's a similar to the recreation

you know kind of components there if there's a way to make it you know revenue neutral um you know that obviously is an opportunity that i would see there i think our ad is very confident if we build it they will come yes um and that we that we should be ready and and have some ideas we we want to look at the town's fee schedule our intent is to start to look at that sort of stuff for us too but we also want to it will be new to us as a district so we want to make sure that We have all the safety things in plan and we see how much we're gonna use it just in our community first, but then build on that for those purposes.

And you go back, I think it's been about seven years now, we used to hold the Lila Youth Festival here. Right. There was up to 180 teams in here over a four day period. and we handled them all week and we had fifteen fields going you know over four days so to hold a state event with this type of stadium football lacrosse you know final four that's you know another way of you know revenue you know to offset some of the cost and that too so it's it it will definitely enhance and and to the summer what what's good about having the turf during the fall and the spring is our other fields are resting so in the summer we can move some practice teams onto grass fields where you know, it's not as hot to Deb's point, and we can keep people off turf. Maybe in the morning they're on there, maybe in the evening they're on there. The band could come out later at night or in there to do their band camp on the turf and that. So we can work that around, but having five or six fields resting while we're using the turf in the season is going to give us a chance to utilize them without putting a lot of taxpayer dollars of wear and tear in there where we can utilize it on the hot days in the summer. So there's a lot of advantage to having this full utilized stadium almost year-round accessible. All the way up to the first snow fly to early March where we can have our tryouts on our fields rather than renting in Hooksett, Goffstown, Bedford. We can be outside. We can schedule one hour or hour and a half time slots up until 7, 8 o'clock um depending on temperatures and that but that's what we used to do we used to be in the parking lots and the gravel and wear out the kids sticks and cleats and that just doing it on gravel now we'd have a safe and you know playing field that they could be on there early march for the spring tryouts and the fall could play well into the fall and early winter.

So there's a lot of... And while this might be budget dust, you know, even the travel out of district for those types of things would be, you know, you have a cost savings there. No, no, it's good.

I think to, you know, to your point, Bob's point, just this last year, Souhegan made roughly $20,000 on just a two-day festival for NILA. As as their part does their portion of what came in? So, yeah, that would open up opportunities if our fields are arrested more event would then become available and we did not and we were able to utilize the space. Opportunities like that would become available to help make this budget neutral or even offset other field needs outside of this.

And one more from a maintenance, you know, moving from a grass to turf, there would probably be, you know, new certifications that would need that maintenance workers and team would need to obtain.

So I think it sounded to me like it was the tools, JR, that you have to have the right tools and you have to be there specific tools for turf. and you have to be trained on those. But like Bob referenced earlier, if there's a football thing for youth football in the rain, JR will call me and be like, come down and see how this looks. So then they have to wait for it to dry out, do all these other things. It sounds like the tools are pretty instantaneous for turf.

There's small like infield drags and that for baseball. They're small. They're turf tires. They have brushes so you can brush the field quickly and then you have to sanitize the fields every so often. you know, for any disease and that. So there's a process with two smaller machines, and they're set up with a small plow on them and a snow brush so you can clean them. If you have a quick snow dusting to make it safe, they can go out in an hour's time and clean the field off and that. So those are two small pieces of equipment that we will try to as well include in this fundraising as well. We're going to try to, you know, do this whole project and that. So that's part of it.

Thank you.

I'm thinking about the benefits in terms of injury because I'm thinking about the injuries on the grass themselves because as soon as you mentioned the third graders digging holes and people having to practice on the fields, I was like, it's probably one of my children digging those holes because they go to Matthew Thornton and they're not the biggest athletes. They're great, but I'm imagining how much this is going to reduce the the injuries and thinking about how much dust and dirt gets kicked up in those fields get dry. The rations a big things that ground is compacted those injuries when you hit it's almost like hitting a rock rather than hitting you know a soft ground. You know I think I am in favor of the turf from that perspective, especially if it allows the other fields to get rest and become those softer grass fields they need to be that are safe to practice on that we can eliminate them playing on the same fields that my 3rd grader who's digging holes probably and that they don't have to play on in practice on. So you know I think I think that helps and I'm thinking about the temperature and that's a really good point. You know that could be sorry band bands non contact they're not going to you know fall over and be touching the grass like looks like a football team would be right. So maybe that could be a time where a non contact type sport could utilize those fields because then they're not actively touching the grass with their bare skins, potentially, so.

Oh, those French horns get really.

Those trombone players are really feisty. Yeah, so, but yeah, I think there's a way to make it work, and I think, you know, that our players understanding how turf fields work Prevent injuries when they play on those turf fields because there is a difference from my understanding being on a more level playing field and You know bumps and and things like that. So Yeah, overall, I think this is this is gonna be a good change for the players. It's a you know Obviously pluses and minuses. I didn't think about the PFAS runoff as she said But there's obviously if it's been done in other parts, there's a way to prevent that.

So yeah Yeah Probably not Relevant to the funding, but did you say you can. They can get up to 850 degrees. 150 150. Oh, my goodness.

We cook pizza. I know I'm crazy, but I'm not that crazy.

it said um it said 150 to 180. oh there we go so like when we had temperatures of 100 it probably got closer to the 180. yeah yeah yeah yeah all right that's pretty pretty hot yes i actually you guys took all my points so sorry

And I, I mean, I obviously strong supporter of this project. Um, I think it's a. I want to help preserve all of our deals in London area and be a great space itself. Not just for, you know. The schools of the community, yeah, outside of athletic events. I mean, you've got to feel like this opens up for really any kind of thing you want to host outside.

Yeah.

Um. You know, it doesn't necessarily even have to be sporting events or band events. You're looking at, you know, festival attempts. You want to have outdoor fairs, things like that, as long as they're not impacting the turf themselves, the space that's available for hosting. So I'm thinking there's a broad variety of community uses available on this as well. And definitely to your point, definitely looking into make sure we keep the EPA in mind and the technologies, latest information, which I know we are from attending meetings and being part of it and kind of locking in on that. But it's definitely a point well taken.

Well, when I Google-searched it, I was shocked. I was like, wait, what?

Yeah, especially if you look at the old books, some of the ones done five, ten years ago, and before people really even thought about that 100%.

Yeah, I had no clue.

I was, like, shocked. And then to the LHS, again, keeping it on the radar, making sure it's on the Deshaun's point, making sure that we have it on the CIP, so should Building 8 come up, something comes up that we can utilize, it's there, we can pull it off the shelf and get to it. and of course you know analyze it and determine does it make more sense to split these out once we get to the point of actually defining the project and really looking at it more than just a placeholder um so another great great point well taken um but yeah i think um i really think he has a great job presenting anyone else have anything else they wanted to

I just want to close what I had to say because I wrote it out because I was, like, trying to be good. And I never get to do this stuff in a council meeting, so take my advantage. Yeah, I know. By all means. By all means. So I just wanted to say, you know, I support the projects that show clear... predictable costs with long term value for the residents, whether in recreation or the school district. But my job here is to make sure we invest wisely, transparently, and always in the best interest of the town first. So that's really what we have to do. I mean, we don't really make the decisions, but help guide you guys in getting the right information in front of the budget committee and the council and the school board so that they can make, and the public, too, so they can see the process. Thank you for allowing me to speak. You're welcome.

Well, thank you for contributing so well.

We appreciate it. I do do my homework, even though people don't think I do it. Then I get flustered and I can't focus.

It's fantastic. I think everyone had great contributions. This is a great board.

here all the time um so i think that is it from our projects presentations tonight um thank you yeah and actually uh just uh one it's nice to see these projects come you know come forward both the rec as well as the school district especially this you know the projects presented this past year right um you know coming from the mass you know off of the master plan there is a need for more recreational areas, more community type kind of collaboration. And where I struggle is, great, but where? And this is from both recreation aspects, the recreation presentations, as well as the school district presentations. there's an opportunity for real long-term investment in our recreational facilities. So just for what that's worth, it's longer term. Of course, it all comes down to the dollars and cents, and that's where the heart the hard work is really coming from. But I do know that from a community standpoint, it would be the best interest to have these types of facilities, to have these gathering places, to have these events, to have these memories that our children can make and adults can be part of. Or if there's an adult lacrosse league, can probably break our legs but you wanted to sign up you know okay you got two plays so i just you know i you know thank you for not you know kind of saying uh i don't want to present these because it's never going to get past yeah thank you for bringing up bringing the projects forward that's what we need we need we need to have this understanding of what's what's coming forward and not have the fear of, well this isn't, why am I gonna waste my time presenting this because it's not gonna matter.

Good things take time, Jeff. And to your point, the time you spent on the master plan, the time you spent on the strategic plan with the planning board, those are key factors for this town to operate. The school started this several years ago and it's been a factor with our superintendent knowing what the school board wants to move forward over the next several years because we keep updating it we keep adding to it we keep changing it uh... depending on the times of what we want so kudos to you for the time you've put in to bring this stuff forward on the town side uh... i know it's it's tough it's a lot of time in that but to our point this project is a need it's gonna it's gonna help out all our youth programs all our corporate events it's going to bring the family together to be part of the stadium you know we've never really looked back at the high school we never built the high school in londonderry that was the middle school that became a high school so this will be like an original piece of artifact of our town that we actually all contributed to with corporate sponsors to make this the focal point of our hub to hold events for a band.

Sleaterfield has a really good ring to it.

I'm just saying that the vision you guys have on the planning board and the master plan on the town side and with the school doing their part and with the help of the town manager putting all this together and our superintendent and us working together, school and town, there's no end to what we can do good in this town for our community. And the support is just going to grow and grow and grow. So thank you for your kind words and your time and effort to get here.

But Bob, this, I think, is the perfect thing. We work together. It's two boards, right? You and me, right? We work together to get that done amazingly. I really think there's a synergy between recreation and the schools.

Absolutely.

And I really would love to see some joint collaborative on some. I'm not exactly sure what, but I think it's there. Talking all the time. And I really think that it could be more public and seen that, you know what, it's not just putting in a building. It's actual events and the recreation piece that you were talking about that will create that. And I did love how you framed it with memories. Because that's what creates a community. You feel part of it. When you put some blood, sweat, and tears into it, you feel like it's yours, and you fight for it, and you care for it. Even though you move away, you're still like, I love that place. That's what you want.

Or we built this. That's right.

And then that teaches our children to be involved. It carries on a tradition, and it's a wonderful thing. But I would love to talk and figure out how we could find another project in the next couple of years that we could do it

so if we could set up some sort of meeting to figure out some sort of synergy yeah it's too good in our minds amity and doug are already in conversations about exactly that so you're right i think i think you hit the nail on the head though i love it okay i think the other thing too when we see recreation projects what i see is i see a new form of revenue um and i'm every year when the budget season starts i'm like what are we doing about revenue Because we spend all this money, but where are we getting additional revenue in? We get money from the state for meals and rooms tax and all these other sorts of things, but where are we getting other revenue sources from the towns? And I'm thinking about the turf fields and I'm thinking about cheerleading tournaments and football tournaments and lacrosse tournaments and soccer tournaments. And, you know, we have like the Dairy Demons. That's a private foot. They could do tournaments there. And I'm just seeing all the way that we can bring in more and more and more money to the town by, you know, fixing the tennis courts, by having pickleball courts, by fixing the dugouts and doing all these other sorts of things. Recreation is a way to bring in. Revenue to support those projects even to make even those projects self-supporting but you know above and beyond that I It's a revenue stream. And it's a really great way to, again, support the taxpayers. And it's not just sports.

And here's the thing. You guys are all talking about rec. It's not sports. It's the music, like the concerts on the commons or other things like that. It's art. I was sitting there listening to Skateboard and something I had a conversation with Mr. Mulholland about. I want to put in a graffiti wall. Let them stop graffiti in my town. Here, you go here. I want to see things like that. I would love to see us go to the dump, our art students go to the dump and take some metal, make some wind sculptures and put them in the orchards and you could have like art in the orchard. I mean, there's so many things that we could do that would better our community that we're not doing because it's like, Us over here, they hold it and these people hold it. We're not working together. We're not understanding it's one community. It's one. It's not each person. I know there's only one pie and we're all fighting for it, but if we work together, we're each going to get a good chunk of that pie and something's going to get done as opposed to you got all the pie and the rest of us starved. I'm sorry.

There's actually a revenue opportunity, revenue generation opportunity with a graffiti wall that essentially, you know, once it's all graffitied, not that I've ever... Auction it off. Auction it off, auction sections of it off. For businesses to put bars. And then rebuild the wall. So it's just, you know, I mean, this is where kind of creative solutions really and creative ideas really happen when we have these open conversations. So...

And I think what's happening next door is a great example of that right to see that come to fruition after several years of it wasn't until we work together exactly Last thing we have on the docket Sean.

Did you want to speak to the updated? Project submission. Thank you guys that desperate. No, thank you

It's really just to keep you updated in terms of the prioritization. As we saw them, again, you'll have to make a decision towards the end of that. Another thing I'd suggest you take a look at, if you look at the column for 2029, we have a bulge. The whole purpose of a CIP is to spread things out. So we need to think about that as we're moving through this. Because obviously you don't want to tax spike. That's why we do it together with the school and the town together is to try to smooth those things out to the extent that you can. And I think there's some further discussions that need to occur. I think not necessarily in this room. I think we need to come back with you working between the DPW project and the school project. you know facilities uh improvements that's the two big ticket items that create that bulge we just need to work around that and i think that can be done to discussions we just had this is how we do business here so i think we'll be able to get that when we come back to you at some point and have a better plan to work through that so there's that and we got minutes sounds great and uh so on to the approval of minutes from the last meeting did anyone have any uh take a look at it and have any changes that they wanted to make no changes no changes

I will look for a motion to approve the minutes.

So moved.

And the second. All in favor?

Aye.

I abstain because I wasn't here.

Four in one abstention. And other business? Anyone have anything else that they wanted to bring up? Public comment? Looks like unless Bob or Andy would like to come back up for public comment.

Not enough.

Always welcome to say more. So with that, though, that brings us down to adjournment. So moved.

Second.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you much, everyone. Appreciate it.