Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

I don't know why she was caring downam that before good evening good time now being shortly after 7 and I'm echoing badly hold on oh yeah you could M yourself I am muted I am muted now okay time being shortly after 7 we this is the Littleton zba um meeting and we're coming to order and the first item on the agenda is the minutes so has everyone had a chance to look over the minutes yes yes I just have one comment the election of officers I think I moved have we accepted rather than John okay yes I didn't I think that was elected it wasn't you moved okay that's I'm sure Luci just got that but yeah I'll make a note of it anyways also um the minutes being approved from last time for some reason it says three to says all in favor and then it says three to zero it should have been five to zero yes all right so that's so then with those Corrections can I have a motion to accept the minutes ISO move thank you second hopefully it works came out of the car thank you for having it uh where am I doing this the well you have to say all SE well not sew well voted to reelect it was Rodney right yeah okay all right um we're looking for John John Field supposed to join us and we don't have him yet let me see if I can call someone to I'll have his phone number we didn't forget I don't have his phone number

you TR making a quick call though [Music] can you send me John Field's phone number we are for the record we are short-handed today our chair is unavailable to be here she had surgery the other day and is recuperating nicely um but is unavailable to be here and we our fifth member is down in Florida and supposed to join us by Zoom though he is on vacation we're hoping that will happen the next few minutes we do have a case tonight starting at 6:10 but we don't seem to have the applicants unless they are thinking of zooming in 710 I'm sorry 710 unless they are thinking of zooming in also um but I don't see anyone else in a waiting room no I don't see anyone else in the waiting room so I guess we're just going to be patient does anyone have any news no any Town news you'd like to share not at all

see they the Yan SE so there must be doing some activity up there at 550 they must be we um hi hi we beginning to wonder if we're going to see you folks we went to that door and then the front all around well welcome um the time being 7:10 we have a problem I don't have a quorum here we are supposed to we have our chair is out sick she had surgery and is trying to recuperate and our other member is down in Florida on vacation had agreed to zoom in with us he has yet to show up okay um and you are asking for a variance so you must have four votes okay and there only three of us so we don't have a quorum right at the moment okay so if that so we're going to wait a few minutes and hope John shows up okay if not I gu to continue to next month otherwise we'll have to continue to next month okay is that going to be a problem for you are you going to planning to start construction earlier than that no uh wouldn't be a problem we could certainly discuss the case and and um any issues that we might have with it but we just can't vote you will very without at least four of us yeah I'm sorry we're and we're lacking alternates right at the moment so and you have to be careful too this has to be recorded because Fred and Cheryl Sherry both have to hear it if they show up next month to vote well it is being recorded discussion on it yeah they can watch they're here I'm I'm inclined to indulge them in a discussion because it would give them a chance to um hear what we're

thinking and decide you know it could actually work out in their favor if you could hear what we're thinking and then have chance to come back and um and go from there does that make sense sure so for the record could you introduce yourself well you have to open the hearing first oh I just did I already did you didn't read you didn't vote on it you don't vote on opening the hearing yeah you no no no you don't but you have to read close notice no you don't vote on on opening the hearing and I thought I opened it but I will I will open it officially um before us this case number 25- 9733 snow Drive the petitioner Jesse Hull seeks a variance pursuant to 173 d10a and a special permit D due to 173-184 for the Reconstruction of a garage and any other businesses May properly come before the board we're open officially so you're welcome to pull a chair up okay and um I'm going leave this up to you we can't vote you even if we want to vote you um I was going to tell you from the beginning that you have to have all four votes and if you wanted to come back later if you thought that you wouldn't get all four votes you were welcome to you know delay it but yeah I mean uh I'm happy to come back whatever you think makes the most sense let's go as long as you agree to a continuance but let's go over a few things okay um why don't you we always start with because we may get our other member popping in in which case this would be over for you um why don't you start and tell us what you're doing okay so I'm Jesse H nice to meet you all um so I there's an existing Garage on my property uh it's approximately 20 by 20 ft and it's an older garage uh decades old uh kind of

rotting falling apart at this point looking to tear that down and replace it with a new larger garage the existing garage being 20 feet it's pretty difficult for me and my wife to both get our cars in there um even to get my son in the car seat we got to pull one car out 20 ft is just not wide enough um so we want to make the garage the new garage wider and um the existing garage is a non-conforming structure already it's pretty close to the um existing property line being around 7 to 9 ft from the existing property line so we would be moving closer to that um and we can't really move the other direction to make it wider because then it would be located like behind my house um if you look at the plot plan um so that's really the the kind of what makes more sense to to widen it in that direction um and I've spoken to um my neighbors on that side of the property that would be affected um the lakes and uh Mark and Anthony Mark is is actually right there um I recognize mark and um we've actually spoken about it so they're they're well aware of the project um and of the the garage and it didn't Express um any objections to me um and my my other neighbor on the other side knows but is not really affected so um happy to answer any any questions or provide any further information I'm supposed to have you gentlemen introduce yourselves could you please just for the Records who we we're supposed to keep a record of who's in the room of course so hi I'm Mark Brown I'm the neighbor in this instance um and uh yeah as Jesse said uh definitely in support of the new construction of the zoning boards and we did have a discussion just making sure that um you know there's uh be mindful

of just sort of the water runoff that we have um we we are right up against sort of like a wetland area so we both Collective quite a bit of water both on our backyard so our main concerns is with water and making sure that there's some sort of system and I did discuss with him that they have sort of a plan for that um so that's great and that's really our only sort of question I have for him so uh yeah teric yeah I didn't mention that actually we're the we're current we're planning on raising the grade of the garage a couple of feet because right now water actually goes down my driveway into the garage and right now there's a nice little ice rink in my garage um so hoping to you know get the water to flow out to the street uh you know properly part of being on this board is going and driving by your property and seeing what we're talking about Sir could you introduce yourself my name is Jim Brown I'm Anthony Brown's dad and I just came here because Anthony wasn't able to make it so Mark had some company lovely um is there anything else you'd like to tell us uh present to us that's yeah covers it but have to answering questions questions from the board yeah um the the 26 ft to me sounds pretty wide with only a 3 and 1/2t setback we had to build a garage a few years ago and it was 24 by 28 and it's plenty wide enough we can open the doors fully inside the garage and everything so maybe you should could consider going to 24 ft instead of 26 then that raised the setback from 3 and a half to 5 1/2 ft so here here's my problem with this we do 3 and 1/2 ft we have allowed 3 and 1/2 ft before but that is under circumstances that it seemed dire because 3 fet is just enough to get a a lawnmower through and 10 your yard you're only 2 and 1/2 ft with your roof offset no it's 3 and2 ft from oh yeah two and half from the roof offset

from the roof offset we we've flowed 3 and 1/2 ft from the roof offset we've never done 2 and 1/2 ft to my knowledge um okay so that's just it's just too close you can't the the fears and worries are concerning maintenance you need to be able to paint your building you need to be able to replace your roof you need to be able to tend your yard on that side with a 2 and 1/2 foot overset I don't think you can replace your roof without going on your neighbor's property and that may not be an issue with these Property Owners but someday they're not going to be there there'll be someone else there so 2 and 1/2 ft is just too close for my comfort and for a variance you know there's there's things there's needs and there's wants please understand I'm fully on your side about get wanting a big garage and wanting to be have plenty of room and be able to open your car doors enough inside to get your child in and out F fully cognizant but 2 and 1 half ft is just frightfully close and worrisome and we've never allowed that before so an alternative might be to go down to 24 feet or to try to shift shift the house over another foot shift shift the garage over a foot or two okay if you can it looks like you know from I didn't walk on your property I stood I sat I stood down the bottom of your driveway and stared up at it it looks like you could shift it over a couple of feet you know it just I I go down you know if you want 26 feet fine but but not that close that that's a that's not that's that's a want not a need I mean we've gone back we've had many arguments in this board about wants versus needs concerning garage GES um there have been past members who are who are adamant that garages in New England are a need not a want and members who think that they're a want not a need and

size always comes into play and a variance is a serious ask it's not a special permit it's a serious ask you're asking us to go against zoning bylaws and we're not supposed to do that lightly we're supposed to have real reason that we have to go to amend them as closely as we are based on size topography those kind of things and looking to me it does look like you could probably shift a little to the looking up from your driveway a little to the left there's uh yeah if you look at the the plot plan there's kind of like a rock wall that runs and steps so like even with the the current um I guess easterly side of it it is difficult to pull my car into that side of the garage as it is so that's why I was hesitant to move it more towards the house at all and kind of kept that corner the same and then ended up shifting it to run along the property lines um so when you raise the the the house the the driveway and the and the building slabs height it'll probably be about the same height or maybe even a little higher than your existing uh patio back there yeah it'll be that's the goal to kind of have so you might won't be quite such a big issue because you won't have a step anymore you just flush into it I actually walked down to the end of the driveway and looked in your drive did you trespass we're allowed I've been known to trespass we're allowed to trespass cuz he has asked us to review this and therefore we have a right to go actually see it how close is your neighbor's shed to your property line pretty close it like it was right on top of it but it's pretty close yeah that's what I thought when I looked at I didn't go and measure it it might be a temporary structure though yeah do look temp afid of me uh the other it's not in front so so that's one thing I think you probably could move it over a fo or two without too much trouble and the patio looked like it

needed rebuilding anyway uh yeah needs to be rebu the other question I have and it's you know it's not for us to say yes or no but the Board of Health will be really interested in seeing a toilet in sink in the in the on the second floor of an existing build of a new building and uh they may you probably have to get a permit from them to allow you to do that because they may look at that and say oh that's a new bedroom right right and and now it's got you know it's got water and toilet and it's a potential bedroom too that's what I said they'll look at it and say it's a new bedroom yeah but that's the board of Health's concern I understand I just bring this to your attention that you know they may have an issue with the whole thing that's that's the board I don't know the size your septic and how many bedrooms you have and all the rest of stuff that's that's that's the but you have to go see them and talk them into letting you do it yeah I I I think I'm okay I'm that side so so think of I mean this maybe this is a a boond to you have a chance to think about moving it or reducing it or how you want to handle it CU 2 and 1 half ft from a roof line just isn't something we've ever allowed so you said that you previously allowed three and a half so like you have allowed three and a half over a foot yeah but but that's still very three and a half has been when there's just nowhere else there's no way to to nothing else to do if there was nothing else to do I'd be say telling if there's no way you could possibly move this at all I'd be saying I'm sorry you have to go down to 24t or we can't approve it um but if you can check out neighbor's garage is one that might be 24t you can pick up 2 feet there and move it a foot or two you can pick up three or four feet and come close to what the present setback is another but we don't yeah another thing to look at is moving the garage further back away from the street doesn't have to be in the same footprint and they're repaving well they're going to do that anyway wet land buffer too they they have they got to L is it just not marked yeah so I'm not I'm not fussing about and I'm not fussing about

moving it back I just 2 and 1/2 ft is just not something we've ever allowed we're not we're not picking on you we've just never allowed it and three and A2 ft quite frankly is something we only allow when there's compelling reason that it has to be that small and having a 26t wide garage is not compelling does that make sense 24t should be wide enough to do what you want to do I would think it's a normal garage I think you know they say with the garage no one ever regretted building a bigger garage right I know I understand I want to say yes to you I really do but 2 and 1/2 ft is just too small it it just you can't replace your roof you can't without going on other people's property Lees are very lovely people um they're not going to give you a hard time but you don't know who they're going to sell to someday and and you know Mark and Anthony are darling lovely people but again you don't know who your neighbor is going to be someday yeah yeah you might have someone put a big chain link fence there and it was mentioned that you were going to do something with the drainage I wonder if we should see that on the plan the drainage drainage yeah he mentioned did you get an engineering I was explaining my current drainage system um which just goes out into the backyard you have an engineered one have you I I have PVC pipes that run my no but you haven't had an official engineering okay we're not going to make you do one okay okay those are thousands of dollars um as long as Anthony and and Mark and Mike and uh the leadies are are satisfied with what you're doing and we're going to take their word for it okay and play he already I talked to him today he told me he's very pleased that

you're able to do what you want to do and in full support of you okay had nice things to say that's nice yeah he yeah he's well aware of the project very nice great MERS and it's nice to have you here in support um okay so understand the the concerns um I guess if you know even if we made it 25t shift it over we're able to do say like 2 feet reducing the setb would that be and I'm just you know so you got to say four and A2 fet no he says he's going to shrink the building by a foot and move the building a foot effectively adding two feet that giv additional two additional two feet the set back I can live with that can you live with that yeah that's fine I can live with that okay I mean I have to talk to my yeah that gives us 4 and A2 ft and I know John will live contractor and everything but talk to your contractor and come back next mon we have your permission to officially delay this month I'm not sure what we do if we don't have your permission I think I we can't just can't vote it I'm sorry and 24 ft is ample room for 9ft doors too yeah and you really need a 9ft door you don't want an 8ft door yeah so it sounds like with like a 4ot or larger setback like is that I guess what's the what's the level where you well if you if you give us two more feet that would give you 4 and half ft to the the roof line right yeah yeah okay I can live with I can handle that and five 5 and 1/2 ft to the property line for the foundation okay that should give you plenty of room to maintain the building okay so then it's just a question of shrinking the dimensions to 24 ft or moving the whole thing over to whatever and you know what you have time to it I think this is actually working out for you usually people have to make

these decisions right away in order to get our approval um and you have time to think about it and talk to your wife and talk to your contractor and update this plan and and figure out how to do this okay all right it's nice that you have good neighbors yeah great neighbors the one on the other side's great too but he knows as well yeah all right very lucky all right okay so we are continue this I need a a motion to continue the hearing what's the date oh this is February this is this is 19th so okay I move we continue the hearing to March 19th at 710 at 710 uh how about March 20th March 20th March 20th you this is febru oh this is 20th not 19th Yeah March 20 I have a calendar is thday it's a Thursday yeah okay we always me on the third Thursday of the month okay okay March 20th March 20th you need to ask for a second vot I do second I all those in favor I I all right we're continued all right and we look forward to seeing you again with a full board all right and um able to vote appropriately for you thank you very much for your your understanding and patience with us yes of course thanks for hearing my face all right and depending on you whether they can listen to the video video or not and it it is on usually on demand we may have to repeat some of this stuff to bring them up going you're going to have to go through the whole Spiel again oh that's right easy no problem thank you thank you I'll take a motion to adjourn okay I'll second that he slightly beat me to all those in favor I I I flip the switch the switch phones

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