Select Board - Regular Meeting

I'm executive session. Good evening, Littleton. It's July 14th, 2025. We will call this meeting to order and we've got some things to discuss in executive session. So, let's go ahead and get started with that. Please

move that select board vote to enter into executive session number two pursuant to mass general law chapter 38 section 21 parenthesis A section two to conduct strategy in preparation for negotiations with non-UN personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-un union personnel police the select board will adjourn to executive session or rec reconvene in open session after the executive session. Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. Gary. Gary's yes. Matthew. Matthew's yes.

And Karen's a yes. We'll return hopefully about 6:45. Thanks. And we're back. Uh we'll start our general session now with a um pledge of allegiance.

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Let's go ahead and read the mail real quick and then we'll um go a little bit out of order. So, um and we'll uh have Steve do his uh contract. Where is it? So, number four, we'll move up ahead. I'm so sorry. I should have uh I thought this was That's okay. Sure. You just go to Steve and then do me on. Sure. That'd be great. Thank you, Steve.

That would really be Mhm. The mail is always riveting. I don't know why you wouldn't want to wait for it. Comcast channel is coming off. That is that is part of tonight's mail. Yes. Exfinity.

Sorry. Uh thank you, Stephen Young, uh director of public works. Uh just here with kind of the annual contract for the landfill monitoring for the postclosure, uh and maintenance plan. Um, as you see this year, it's down a little bit uh to $116,400. Uh, and what that is is a reduction in uh some of the sampling and what we have to sample for. Uh, the hope is still over the next couple of years we can reduce that sampling from quarterly to either by annual or like most that are in full compliance uh just annual sampling.

So, we're starting to see some of the reduction now. Uh we had received a revised plan back over the winter and this uh sampling plan here reflects that. Is annual as it is annual as as like infrequent as it gets. You we'll do annual forever. They'll Yep. They'll come out. We'll do a once a year. It's usually a couple day event. They'll do air uh the monitoring wells surface water if there's any close. And is that based on what they've s what they sample each year? Yep. as stuff go as part whatever the measurements go down as we just show you know the numbers are level. Yeah. Okay. Well, minimal change then we can start which is how we've got to this point. Okay.

Are there any other substantial changes either to Tai and Bod's proposal or to the contract? Nope. It's really just a reduction in the analytical stuff at this point. Okay. Are we good? Yep. Any questions? All right. I'll take a motion. Move that select board vote to authorize town administrator James A. Dugen to execute a contract with Tyen Bond for one $116,400 for environmental consulting services for FY20 26 landfill postclosure compliance. Second moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I thanks. Thank you. Thanks, Steve.

Thanks, Steve. Enjoy enjoyed dinner. There was a space between the 160,000. That was 60. Okay, I'm ready. They'll be read. Let's finish this one housekeeping task. [Applause] Go ahead with the mail.

Thank you very much. Uh current vacancies on town boards. Uh we've got uh the appointed by the select board agricultural commission clean lakes committee uh committee for the exploration of real estate tax relief for seniors community preservation conservation council on aging disability commission economic development committee historical commission LCTV advisory committee master plan uh implementation committee permanent municipal building committee personnel advisory committee committee, sustainability committee, taxation aid committee, ZBA and appointed by the school committee um uh on their finance committee and appointed by LLWD uh also on their finance committee. Um uh sign up and receive public notifications for the town of Littleton. Scan the QR code. Um There we go. Scan the QR code to register or go to www.ittletonmma.org/wardsubscribe. Community impacts, um, transportation issues, public safety, town meeting changes, public health concerns, town events, stay informed. Uh, here we have a gift acceptance form um from uh, Chief Matthew Pinard. Uh the and it was uh a $500 gift by the Rotary Club of Littleton uh for the community police, the student academy, which started today and it will last uh for the week. Uh and it sounds uh sounds fantastic. I believe they got they have 39, Robert, do you remember

30? Was it 30 30? Uh yeah. Um last year it was wasn't as well attended, but this year it uh it is. It's great. It's great. Uh we also have another gift acceptance form um for EHS from the friends of the Council on Aging for $850 for the to fund the monthly senior breakfast. Uh thank you for your generosity. And here we have Mass DOT. They are uh I'm interim now. And um as you can um slowly working you out. That's a dean motion, isn't it? Aren't you my town manager?

Yeah, I was a mayor. Not that funny. I mean, it's kind of funny. That's true. That's true. It is, right? He's taking your job. Um, commuter uh notified by Mass DOT. They want to do uh uh crossing uh the pavement markings at railroad uh crossings uh across the commuter rail network and they just want us to be uh in communication with them in regards to paving uh paving projects or anything like that. So Steve on that or

Yes. Um notification to a buzz. This is from the conservation commission. uh a notice. We have uh something for a an intent uh for a notice of of of intent uh by Mr. Paul Dudley of uh address of the land at 18 Pleasant Street in Littleton and in the project that he is proposing includes construction of a new on-site sewage disposal system and grading within the 100 100 foot buffer zone. Um and uh that that is mandatory that it's put out. Here we have um a notification which has been put in all the subscribers bills, automatic payments and paperless billing and and multi-product discounts and Cartoon Network. Sorry, Chuck. Um and uh here we uh as as uh keeping everyone informed uh it's an update uh of a change in certain discounts uh Xfinity provides to customers using paperless billing automatic electronic payments and buying multiple production starting in June 26, 2025. The automatic payments and paperless billing discount with a bank account or multiple product discounts will will each be offered only to customers who purchase Xfinity internet service alone or part of bundles. And um it will also uh it is it will not be offered to uh to new subscribers. And a second uh notification uh subs subscription price increases uh we have so it's net effective July 17th uh Netflix standard subscription from $1549 a month to $17.99 a month and as a result the packages will change Netflix

MGM DVR from 3248 a month to 34.98 a month Netflix max paramount Well, with Showtime, MGM, and DVR from 61.47 a month to 63.97 a month. And um there we go. We are That's it for the uh for the mail. Madam Chair, I want to uh just to go back to that notification to a Butters, there's a hearing um if anybody's interested and that's going to be on July 22nd. So just check the website for more information on that. And Mr. Chairman, we have a corner. We're set. All right, let's get started.

Okay, so um everybody got the budget transfers? There are quite a few of them. Um some of them are because like DPW when we did the union negotiations was thrown on one line, so we had to shift the salaries around for that. And also um some of the admin staff was budgeted in land use and it should have been split like we split building health department conservation. So there's some of that.

Um some small um stuff like cemeteries very small but that's uh they did quite a bit of building repairs. Um some other things uh were budgeted as expenses instead of wages. So we had to be shifted within those budgets. I don't know. I I don't think I want to read every single item, but if someone has questions, I'm happy to try and answer them.

So, in the cases where the wrong account was being used, are those offset in this in this report? In other words, if if if the admin wage was taken out of the wrong place, is it then credited somewhere else? So, it's a net zero or not? So what I mean by department some of them they netted out to a a profit cuz their their salary might have been higher but their expenses they had money left on the table. But what what the transfers I did was I kept within each functional department. So general government I moved salaries to salaries expenses to expenses. So it all stayed within the same functional area and nothing went over. So,

so like for example, animal control officer was budgeted in professional services. Correct. So, so the Boxboro agreement um was was terminated as of June 30th, but we had put the budget together long before that. So, traditionally it was in professional services, right? And then we hired Phyllis, so she's so she's in under wages. Okay. So, we had plenty of money. It's just it was budgeted in um expenses rather than wages. And the expiration was June 30th of 2024, the contract with Box Borrow. Yes. Yes. Yes. But the budget was already Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Same thing with um NHOBA. Mhm. Board of Health.

Okay. Yep. We now have the nurse budgeted and Francis. Okay. Robin, does any of the deficits that you identified kind of made you think of budgets for 27 26 um potentially um information services and that technology piece, we could have some more a deficit to look at this year because there's so many new like licenses that they're sending out. um sometimes new hires

new hires and things like that add to how many licenses we have to maintain for Microsoft

um security firewall things like that. Um and then archiving all of that Nancy said also lends itself to a a general increase. Um and then some of that will be a little offset by actually by PACE. So PACE education is something that Tyler Technologies offers for training if we're implementing a new module of the software. So we buy their educational package. So we're decreasing um for FY26 we're decreasing that package a little bit because we didn't use all of it. Um so we're decreasing that a little bit which will help offset the IT increases. So, we may have to do a transfer next year to cover that, but we're hoping to offset, you know, a few thousand dollars of it increases with that educational piece. is the um budgeted hiring

plan once it's approved once the budget's approved there's we know how many new slots we've approved for example is does that ever roll over to Nancy at some point during the process so that she knows you know we're going to have eight new employees across the board she knows that but I think in general but it's something that hard to know which licenses more so is it more firefighters is librarian, you establish a new board, all the board members need emails. That all is a license.

But it is something to take into consideration. If you're increasing staff, we should know in the future that that's going to increase um it potentially central communication um costs as well. Mhm.

If if we know of specific departments that are going to be in the same situation this coming year and is how big a deal is it to just chew them up in November and not be chewing them up in, you know, fix them now or early in the year rather than wait till the end of the year. And some of the some of the IT costs also are

um unexpected requests that she mentioned you not newer people but people will have new requests for you know iPads or additional equipment um and things like that as it becomes obsolete that is sometimes it's an unknown factor but in general you know we should be trying to become more aware ware of those things and you know we always pinch pinch the budgets and sometimes that's the effect of it. I don't know that you could true them up now because you don't know where you're going to pull it from. Okay. Right. Okay. We don't know how the number is going to end up at the end of the year. You might not need to.

Okay. So there's not another $25,000 for an individual that was budgeted in outside services. Not that I know. Okay. Okay. No. The the only place you really want to see where we have, you know, solid ideas of numbers for something is if we're increasing firefighter staff. We have three new firefighters. We know we're going to have uniforms. We're going to have education for them. So, and fire department did increase those numbers appropriately.

Okay. Um, can you tell me a little bit about the historical commission Patriots Day? So, Patriots Day was not budgeted and that's why there's a shortage. But Ryan had had expressed to them to go ahead and do what they needed to do for Patriots Day that we would find it within the budget. So, that's why it's there. That's not Patriot. $3,000,000. What happened with that money is we are not allowed to hold that money for anything. it goes into general fund. Uh so truly we'll have extra free cash in the end because of that. We got to spend that money directly,

right? You can't just take it in and spend you can't increase your budget after the fact. And I took it out of the shade tree expenses. That's what Yeah, because it was that functional area. So I moved it from there. They didn't spend. So these budget transfers when we see the reports for 25 compared to budget for 26 type of thing. We'll see these transfers and decrease in those line items basically. Yes. So we'll have good numbers to compare to. Yeah. She'll book the transfers,

right? So that'll increase the budgets where it's needed. So that'll give us an idea of a little bit better budgeting for those departments. Yeah. Um just is this bigger than normal? It it was long this year. Yeah, it definitely was long and there were some small like silly ones and I think it was just the way um the split happened for payroll.

So there were some like collector normally wouldn't be but it was just a little bit over. I mean, I it doesn't look like there's any singular department that needs to be talked to, so to speak, about their budgeting. It just seems a little bit scattered. Um, yeah, I think there's a there's a narrative that supports each one of these. Yeah, it's good good job explaining because it a lot of it is written in there. Mhm. Took a while to do that. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you for doing it. Yeah. It's very helpful for us to understand.

Well, because I had to look up too sometimes a motion to approve motion. We have a second. Second by Sanjay. Motion by all in favor. I say yes. Thank you. Uh motion to approve the um actually I'll read the motion. Sorry. We're good. Um, move that the select board vote to authorize the town account to transfer the amounts outlined in the table presented to the finance committee at their May 27th, 2028 meeting to address and it's not May.

I thought you didn't speak you didn't look at this earlier. So, it's today. July 14th. July 14th, 25 2025 meeting to address deficits within the town of Littleton fiscal year 2025 operating budget. Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I. We have one item managed by committee. Sure. Second. We have an invoice from the Association of Town Finance Committees for $21 for our dues for this year. We have a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Have a second. Second, my dread all Michelle. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thanks very much. Thanks,

guys. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

Thanks very much. You all have a wonderful evening. Enjoy your nice long evening. It's free air conditioning, guys. You can stay. start our meeting. Thank you. Thank you, Mich. Thank you. Well, look at top of the uh the chart. That was I had to blow it up to see it.

Department board updates and requests. We did that. So, we're moving on to public input and members updates. We'll start with public input. Does anybody have anything they wanted to say? if you'd like to come up to the podium. With pertaining to the final agenda item regarding speed limit, I don't know if you'd like us to do that now or wait till you get to that part of the off to you. Why wait and have them speak? Yeah, we'll we'll reopen public input then. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for letting us know. Anybody else?

All right, seeing no one, we'll move on to members updates. to start. You look very ready and organized and top of things. I went on I went toward the orchard um this week and talked to John.

Um it's um he's done a lot of cleanup. He spent several thousand dollars cleaning junk out of the barn. He also spent a long time and a lot of labor removing irrigation from the field adjacent to the upper barn. like he said that was basically a full dumpster of old irrigation pipes and he didn't even some of them he couldn't even pull out. Um and he has his first batch of little baby trees in pots up there um with a water tank that he's filling with the um with the well that is working and he is bringing trees in as they get big enough. So um it's a going concern. Um the place actually looks really good. The barn is very clean. He has a bunch of equipment in there. Um and he talked to me a little bit about the plans. They've completely cleared the upper field um all and deumped it and everything. So he talked to me a little bit about what he was planning to do and he's going to spread out into that field first and then he said I think that he's going to clear the the field across the street next to the house next. But anyway, things look great. He's enthusiastic about it and seemed to be having a great time like and was very pleased with the progress he's made. So I thought that was great. um MP uh the EMPAC um released a draft of the report that they wrote for the orchard review process that we did. Uh Mark and I reviewed it. I'm sure we'll share it with we just had some typos, but it was all very complete. I'm sure we'll release it soon. Um, I am going to speak to a woman who does conservation restriction monitoring for the Littleton Conservation Trust to help get some sense of cost and the schedule for monitoring the orchard.

Okay.

Um, she um, so we're going to have to discuss about whether doing an APR is in her is in her expertise, but she said that there was a lot of similarities. And then the last thing is I got an email from the MBTA. They do a subway emergency drill every year and it's um you can go be a victim and it's really fun. Uh my family did it once up in air at the train station and we had we were trapped in a train car with people on stretchers and the ambulances rolled up. So if you feel like you know a fun Saturday with your kids to be to be smoke inhalation victims or something, you should go you could check out the MBTA website and I'm sure they have have a link to it. Good times. Sounds like great fun.

Um Jeff, the only thing um just wanted to mention mechanical advantage the robotics team 6328 is um celebrating the 10th anniversary. And so they're having an event on August 22nd, I believe. Yeah, August 22nd from 6:00 to 9 at Harvard Lanes. And they're inviting teams to come in. You can register at littletonrootics.org. Um they're looking for people to sponsor it, for people to come and play. There's going to be live music, DJ, food and drink. Um should be a good event and just wanted to get it out there and going to start getting folks to sign up for it. Great.

Um I saw that the Littleton Fire Department visited park and wreck today and did a um kind of a show for all the kids and trucks and things. So that u thanks for that. That's great. Great community stuff there. um in the Littleton Police Department uh police academy starting today though. All right. The for the um the young kids to um hopefully future officers or learning troopers or Yeah.

or um kind of learning how to serve. So it's um thanks to all those that participate and help make that work every year. um compensation benefit study uh it's kind of from the personal advisory committee that uh done with all the interviews of all the the personnel that they're going to interview. Um there is some draft um structure at play kind of looking at the how the grid's going to change and how how many grades and things like that. So that's kind of they're into that meat of the discussion now and where and after all of the um interviews and discussions with the department heads where all the positions seem to fall in in our group. So those are the that's where they're at. So more to come on that once Michelle's keeping that close hold. So we don't get to see much of it but we will eventually um probably in the fall. Uh that's all I have.

Okay. Um, I went to the financial policy committee meeting that was back on June 24th. Uh, there weren't a whole lot of changes. There were probably two things that will have already circled back or will circle back to us um on the select board. One was TIFF policies. We've got that on the agenda today. And the other um topic that might um come back on our side depending on how much we want to do with it is uh earmarks. um or designations for um hotel tax revenue for the new hotel that is being proposed. Um that was discussed in terms of a financial policy and the decision and the idea was that um that is more a select board um policy area. So and that's all I have. Can I just follow up on Gary's thing over the academy? Um, there's there's at least I just trying to go through my head and figure out there's at least a half dozen previous explorers that have gone through the the police the junior police academy um that have gone into law enforcement

and um so there's there there's a couple here in Littleton PD and there's a couple that have uh joined the police forces and the state police and um so it's a great program to give kids an idea if this is something they want to do for the rest of their lives and um they they really do a great uh go and inspect all the kids bedrooms and it's pretty pretty serious business. See if you can bounce a corner off their off their off their So yeah, keep up the good work. That was awesome. That's great. Um Jim, any project updates or

I do. Um we have uh Whitam Field and Tennis Court projects. They're uh they're moving moving along as scheduled and uh on budget so far. uh looking at August for the uh the tennis courts uh should be substantially complete and then in the fall we're looking at the at at at at the ball field to be complete. King Street construction. Um, it's going uh it's it's it's still on schedule, which is great. And uh the primary focus in this initial design has been uh utilities with progress made in the drainage, the sewer, water, and um electric infrastructure. And at at this point uh to date there's 95% of the drainage is done, 50% of the water utility is done, 60% of the sewer utility, 25% of the electric utility and 30% of the uh uh um technology and data uh utility is complete. uh utility infrastructure in the new road roadway section is substantially complete and um they're working towards uh uh king working towards King Street stub connections in the next month or two. uh they're on track for within one of the existing buildings for an a August occupancy and inspection is will be inspected in the next couple of weeks and phase two uh of the of the construction uh the design is is is approximately 50% complete and the bid do documents are expected to go out at the end of this month uh for that uh we're also looking at I just want to update the uh the select board on the statement of interest that was submitted for the high school boiler and uh roof uh that was done earlier, I believe it was April or May of 2025 during a select

board meeting. And we met with the MSBA that uh had informed us that they they have so much to um so many requests for funds and considering that we are in the queue for in their core program for the Shaker Lane uh for the Shaker Lane school, they're going to replace it for free.

Right. Exactly. And uh uh that is something that uh so there's two separate programs. is the accelerated program which is more uh which are is not as substantial. In other words, uh you're looking at roofs, doors, windows, heating systems, things of that nature as as projects to do. Whereas the core is an entire school. So, but because and they like to make sure that uh not to uh uh give uh a community multiple funding opportunities at the same time because there's such a demand on it. So, we're going to keep the project in the uh in their queue for 2027 for it to be voted on and it's going to uh it'll go into the accelerated program because it will be a roof and they're not they're no longer effective immediately doing boilers. What they are they're transitioning over to heat pumps

uh for for the for the school for the accelerated program. Correct.

Okay. and uh at that time. So in the event it we do not we are not successful in 2027 for the roof and the heat pump uh conversion, it will uh then we'll have to reapply for 2028. Okay. So it just keeps on going uh going down there. Um through a a tour that uh chairwoman uh Morrison and Mr. Ron Bucker and uh members of the uh planning team had we took a tour of Lab 9 in their project. Uh that's a local company. Uh and one of the things that they would like to do is potentially having a conversation and meeting with Leoli company for see if they can um you know create a business partnership uh over here at uh at 550 King Street and uh that is being scheduled and that uh continues to uh to move forward. Um, and

Jim, excuse me completely. They need more space. Is that what that's about or is it who? Lab lab 9. No, no, it's just to manufacture this just to be able to help. Oh, to help the manufacturing. Oh, got it. All right. Thank you. Yep. And uh that wasn't

we uh uh facil facilities manager uh responded this morning to uh an alert uh from uh from from uh school personnel that there was there was a breakdown in the fire suppression uh sprinkler system over at 36 King Street. So we have dispatched uh uh people have been there and uh uh identifying the problem and taking we will have uh an update I will have an update for you every day to the select board about next steps and in terms of uh testing moisture testing uh repair of the systems and and things of that nature and um

in the meantime parks and wreck is in the correct and uh they asked uh today because everyone because of the lack of a sprinkler system, everyone really had to vacate, especially the children. Uh uh the building the building commissioner is is permitting the um the office personnel park to be able to be right there because they're right next to the door. They're at the front door literally. So they have easy access to you know to leave in the event that that is something otherwise uh no uh the school administration is will be working remotely while because it predominantly happened up on the second floor.

So and uh they've been very cooperative and we're uh when I was asked uh today about the children's programs we're like you know come back come on home you know come back to the second floor you know absolutely kind of like my kids did. The outside sign looks nice though. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, it does. It does look good. And uh that's it. Any questions on anything? Uh no, I didn't. Uh I can't believe that tour at Lab in Somerville for Lab 9 was It really was since our last meeting. It seems like it was 10 years ago. Oh, you went to Clarendon. But uh yeah, it was really really neat. Um it's I think we're lucky to have such an innovative company here in Littleton.

It's awesome. Yeah. Um, and the work they're doing is really really impressive. Absolutely. So, thank you to them for for uh giving us such a detailed tour all the way to the top of the building. Good view by stair. Great view up there. It was. Yeah, great view. Mhm. All right. Um, moving on to appointments. I don't have any. I mean, no. Did anybody have any questions about um the list? Did you guys get a chance to review? It's great to have people volunteer. I mean, basically, I feel the same way.

Yes. This is one of the bigger groups we've had volunteer at one meeting. So, fantastic. And um there's probably going to be another set for the for the next meeting also. Wonderful. Yeah. Um yeah, many many thanks to all who uh put their names in the hat and are stepping forward and and uh giving back. It's much appreciated. Good. Take a motion. Move that select board vote to approve the slate of appointments in the table below. Read it or we're good. In the table below as presented. Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I I. Again, thanks to all who volunteered. Get sworn in. Get sworn in.

All right. Uh, now some discussion points. Um, there's a request from the I want to make sure I get the name right. I AGB. IB. Yeah. Um, to have a flag raising ceremony. Um, I think we all were copied on the mail. Um, if not, it's in the packet. Did anybody have any questions? I think it sounds like a great idea. I know they've done it before. Um, and they've done it in other neighboring communities. Seems like a wonderful opportunity. Um, it's consistent with our bylaws. They'll be bringing their own flag pole for the Indian flag. Um, so I guess they've done it before last year. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. It's great. Um, I don't know whether any Did they pull any Does anybody know if they pulled permits last year? I don't know. I don't know.

So, I was thinking if they need permits, we should probably if they will need permits, we should probably go out to August 9 or 10 so that we have a meeting in between so we could approve them. Um, did anybody have any preferences um between Saturday and Sunday? I'm not so concerned about the um permits as I am the potential of you know what's covered from a liability standpoint but they have their own insurance the I agreed to have their own rider or whatever it's in the well just that they're having an event on the common so just

putting up a temporary structure meaning the the the flag pole right I that anytime we rent out Fay Park or, you know, any any other of our venues, not a whole bunch, but you have to you have to come with something. It's interesting because it's not a rental, but it's a use and it's an authorized use. Can we find out? Absolutely. Thank you. All right. So, we'll chase that down. Yeah, it's a good question. But uh between uh Saturday or Sunday, does anybody have any preferences? No, doesn't matter to me. I was thinking about Saturday and Sunday. Okay. No, I don't. Yeah.

No, they they put forth Yeah, there's a little ore in there. Yeah. Yeah. Saturday or um Sunday. Yeah. Okay. So, I'll get back to them and let them know either 9th or 10th works for us in principle. We're good with it and get the details.

Yeah. All right. Thank you. then the um tiff discussion. Um so in my update so last week I had provided uh with the um uh to the select board the policies that that uh was asked to to try and look look for some policies uh from the meeting of the finance policy meeting that we that uh that the chairwoman referenced earlier and um you have uh one was from the state and I I believe that was the Springfield one and then the other one that we have is West Springfield. I've also have reached out to uh the Route Three um connection that has Burlington, Bedford, Bill Ricker, all of those communities uh to the executive director and we are we are playing a little bit of telephone tag uh to trying to help out if there are any policies along along that corridor of those communities. and uh I can I I can report back. Uh one of the other things as as part of the retreat is in on the in the same line as TIFFs u look I reached out to at some of the department heads looking at some of the impacts that uh you know with that data that we would uh that the development at 550 would would have uh to us. So um um and I have u some um rel some pertinent information that uh let me just pull it over. So the largest really I mean the two largest impacts as I'm sure you you can imagine will be police and fire. Uh

there will be um there's an anticipation based upon comparative uh data um within our community adjusted to the scale of the of 550 with the thousand plus units uh proposed. uh they're they're looking at at fully built out an additional calls call volume between 900 and 950 annually and it would be break broken down it's 600 and this is all um anticipated projected 10ear buildout I mean what's the it's it's they're getting more and more aggressive so let's go with eight at this point uh but but it's all market dependent

uh they need to speed it up or slow it down based upon

Yes. Good. Yes. Um and uh so you're looking at six approximately 638 medical calls, 275 fire and other emergency responses. And uh and with the with the medical revenue uh based upon the call volume just for the for that portion there uh be approximately $495,000 annually in ambulance uh ambulance revenue. But uh staffing requirements uh the impact would be we would need an additional eight uh full-time full-time uh uh personnel new personnel uh for the department uh which uh uh but and also we would be there's now there's a space requirement in terms of personnel wise of how many people we can fit in the actual building. So now is potentially looking at uh the possibility of a second of a second location of a second firehouse

in the town. And then uh there are there's further uh evaluation and examination on the apparatus. We built it with a 50-year lookout when we when we built the fire department and went to town meeting. We rebuilt that with I think it was a 50-year anticipated growth. Okay. Yeah. I'm curious what the the added I'm just thinking the personnel we we only have two ambulances where they are they talking about they still evaluating more equipment I mean they would have to be you know additional ambulance and because you have no right you just have people standing around they can't go use any vehicles

correct so that's the apparatus is the is the last the impact on the in its fleet in its current standard would have to be increased And uh and then not only that with new stuff, but now you're looking at uh being more aggressive on a replacement plan uh for that uh for the for the apparatus.

Um police department. Uh we would um uh what would uh ultimately the uh the resources that would be required be an increase of anywhere between six and 10 offices. uh and uh that would be between 660,000 to 960,000 uh of of of an investment. You need uh dispatch staff uh because the because with additional call volume uh with two full-time communications offices anywhere from 150 to 200,000. Then uh administrative for records uh you we would need one additional personnel for uh increase in billing public records requests payroll additional personnel would be $50 to $100,000 and then we would for the fleet expansion we would have to be more aggressive on uh with the replacement of uh and the number of vehicles instead of two vehicles a year replace them to be look three to four um nationwide the average of sworn officers 2 2.4 per thousand residents. Uh smaller communities and cities uh that face with less than 10,000 uh the ratio is often higher with 3.8 offices per thousand residents. So we that's uh basically what we'd be looking at uh over the next 8 8 to 10 years uh these you know these level of investments board of health is minimal school department is looking uh the superintendent um the superintendent is looking at uh probably an increase of 60 to 80 students uh for uh with within the school system and uh not much of an impact at all considering you're talking, you know, a thousand units. So, uh, that was, uh, that was done.

So, that would be spread over the grades, I assume. Right. Correct. And those units would be spread at 550 and at 410 Grade Road, right? Correct. 780 units at 550 King Street and then 300. Well, there was there was there was there was 265 have been approved at 410 Great Road, I believe. 265, something like that. and then uh which would have 8 8 something 806 or 804 at at 550. So uh at this point that's that's what what has been approved. I just don't want to get in the habit of saying there's going to be 1,000 units after I have the King Street and then people are saying what's plus whatever is coming at 410. I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's all totaled that's going to be about a thousand

if there I mean if there if there is if there is a shift, right? But if it's split out differently, if if some are in uh and uh go within the envelope at at 550 King Street, that doesn't mean the others for 410, it doesn't mean that's going to be increased. So if you there's 286 and you move 186 over. So now you've got 100 units over here at 410. That's that's that's what's staying at 100. It's not going it's not re-uping. So, but to your point, yeah, it's a thousand is a thousand is a thousand at this point. Sorry, Jim. The 60 to 80 students, that is just 550 impact. That's not including the normal growth rate. Uh, correct.

Okay. Thank you. Though in a decade, that's our normal growth rate. Yeah. Um, so, uh, back in 2023, uh, earlier in the year, the select board at the time, you you may remember it got an impact got an impact study. Uh and I know that there was a question uh by Mr. Rambacher and other members on the select board at the time of really uh we we we need to validate right the the projections

and so uh at the time so we have uh there are some uh pretty astute companies that a couple companies that are out there that can evaluate the numbers and and start peeling back that uh the reasoning behind there and see seeing know how strong those numbers are. Okay.

I mean, I think the the game to play here isn't really a game, but of making sure that um we're not chasing because we went through a period. Why we did we hire four uh firemen at at once? Because we went a decade really without increasing staff. So, um, this is one of those things where I don't think 550 King can be built out, um, value-wise to the town to compensate this number yet. I mean, I don't know how fast we're going to reap the benefits of the increase in revenues, which is enormous, granted,

you know, that's the 10-year buildout, but, you know, what's the path to get there is is a is a serious math problem. I mean that fing as well is probably going to be very concerned about but right on how how that gets staggered when do we get our f you know two more officers versus three right four firefighters and how that plays to um where it's not affecting the taxpayer that was never the intent where it affects the taxpayers that already live in town right this revenue should be coming from that but but even and even if you look at 10 years out I mean back of the envelope $2 million in in per year in just in um salary personnel. Yeah.

Right. Another got to be a half million dollars in equipment if you think about one more ambulance, two more cruisers every year that we're going to have to replace. So like what you know and then there's ancillary costs on top of that. Like what what are we looking at for income when it's fully built out? Was it 4 million? It was six. I think it was it was it was between five and and and $6 million. And um I'll share that again with the select board that that report so it's at your fingertips. It was real estate tax. Uh correct. Doesn't include hotel tax, doesn't include meals tax, and those are the things we talked about,

right? And then you're looking at so it it basically based upon what that report reflects. Um it you're really looking at a net revenue of approximately $3 million to the town uh annually based upon hotel motel tax because when that was done I'm not sure that a hotel was in the mix. It wasn't. So right. Um so then it's now there you're looking at uh something that is uh then you have meals tax uh along with the hotel with the room tax that are there. Uh so there is there's a lot of uh there is a lot of revenue.

There's two two additional properties that have been purchased subsequent to when that those reports were out too. The Yanks River and then the behind the mobile station on that property. So but but the meals and hotel tax is not a significant income right now. But it is for the CPA. If we if we put that money into the the CPA and we're that, you know, if we can get to that 3% mark, 1% coming off the taxpayer, which it already does, and then we're we're a contributing one now. Correct. Yeah.

We that's that's kind of the number that I think we should really be striving to get to that one more percent and we get that big match. I mean, room tax alone, just from the courtyard, and Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, or Steve or Fred, correct me if I'm wrong, it's roughly $400,000 a year just in room tax from the courtyard. Is that right? 380 400. I don't I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I um It's been a while. I mean, we're not talking a courtyard there either. We're talking a boutique. Still going to be 90 beds. 150 high-end courtyard. Um, yeah. I I mean,

I I would just caution. I don't know the report that you're referring to, but the one that's been out there for a while that Mark Ramacher looked at I believe that's from Lei, right? So, well, that's great. Kathy gave us some numbers too though, right? Yes. And those are the numbers that you're going all these numbers that you just those are individual that's our department folks, correct? giving their input real estate piece. I saw what Kathy did recently. Right. So, in between the expenses and the revenue, public safety or just uh that's just from over the past weekend of u of that stuff. Yeah. To Matthew's point, there's very much back of the envelope,

which is great. I mean, it's better than we have. It's better than any information we had up to this point. Absolutely. So I think like that's a you know that's uh a bigger number than we had had expected before as far especially as far as salary. So I think it's good that we're talking about it now. Right.

Well I mean and the the idea of the what's the the benefit to the town outside of obviously businesses. It's going to certainly help businesses on the in the area on the common more people right. um culturally um some of this money that some of the revenue what's it doing to increase the um the average person that's living here their value their dog parks are we getting are we getting more culturally more through parks and wreck are we getting the the aquatic center we getting you know what are we there's money here probably a few million dollars we're hoping

um above and beyond what this whole thing is going to cost at the end of the Now, that's that's the hope, right? Steve, I I just want to just I've said this like three or four times in the past three or four time meetings. We need to spend this money smart. And if there is more revenue, then we're going to spend even after these things that you said, it's an opportunity to start looking at not raising the entire levy, putting it aside, decreasing the tax rate to the residents. I think that's something that they would probably appreciate more than

Yeah. Yeah. Well, not increasing the tax rate has been our mo, but we've It never goes it never seems to go the other way. But to Steve's point, when when the point was built, I don't want to say we were like a bunch of drunken sailors, but we we as soon as it came in, we went out. I mean, look at the number of employees that we have in this building. Basic, you know, go back 10 years and then go to today. just we we need to well lessons learned from that. I hope this board learned a lot from that board if you will and but that board didn't learn anything from even Cisco trying to go into that property previous board of select would um spent

that money we hadn't even received it correct and they'd even buy the property on speculation. Absolutely. I mean our financial policy change we we meet a lot more our financial policy group and we're I think much smarter than we were even 10 years ago. I mean having that discussion sooner than later it all rolls into this tip because yes you have this this revenue enhancement you can give some of it back and and potential tiff what do you do with that extra money and that's that's going to be a key moving forward. Well, and I think we don't lose. It's in the conservative. Yeah. But you don't have to raise the entire thing

because we can't just look, you know, I think my guess is that any tiff pitch was going to be look how much revenue we're bringing you, right? But it's, you know, we have to account for how much we are going, you know, how much we need to um pay for and when, right? And unfortunately, both of those things are going to be front-loaded. costs are going to be front-loaded for us and typically right tapes are front-loaded towards immediate impact. So, it's going to be a we're going to have to be really careful. Yeah. I mean, this is happening this basing as much objective data as we can have it. So, it's happening. We have enough time. Yeah. 5 years ago planning and Yep.

be smart with what we do. That's I think we're at a point of um these are really good numbers. I hope they're conservative cuz that's it's a little staggering to me to hear some of those numbers. It is I mean I agree with someone that's been in a long time. But those numbers are at complete buildout and if we're talking 8 years of No, you're right. There's a scale that's involved and you might be adding and we're going to learn along the way a little bit. But I I think the surprises we can help through financial policy. Um, yeah, we end it as we go. You know, we've talked I I know

when I was on finance committee, we we talked a lot about we've got to shift some of this to commercial. We've got to build up our economic, you know, our commercial base. So, takes the stress off this taxes and this is our opportunity because this is the biggest thing that's going to happen probably for the next I don't know a lifetime, right? In our lifetime. So this is our opportunity to to shift that some of that burden onto the the commercial away from residential. Yeah. So hotel and room tax and meals tax for fiscal year 25 was $675,000. Yeah. So that's a lot more than I presented. I think I was I was like looking at it during co when it was $100.

And that's over that's over 1% of the CP our CPA. Oh yeah. So, and we only budgeted 260. So, we were Yeah. So, that that's first and foremost in my mind. I I just think that that getting hitting that 3% mark. So, you you you also we have to remember that uh Leole is going to be in front of the the planning board for their for the for their site plan for the 300 309 units. So, there's one. Correct. So if we if we approach our our spending based upon his build 309 units

309 units we know it's coming and look at phase two and and that's how we do and plus and now we also have um the sewer betterment bills are going to be going out for second quarter of of this year and the team is with LWD and uh and and town council and the finance team is working to you in order to make sure we we get that stuff going and and get those and get those out there to start revenues in. Right. Exactly. To uh so the so the debt comes off. So slowly but surely we're we're able to do it. And to to the chairman's point and everyone's point really it's the fact of do it uh you know spend in a sustainable manner. Yeah.

And that's it. I mean, you you you've you've all done a great job over the past 10 years, and we just we're not diverting the course. We're still going to stay on that course. Well, I mean, this board, I think, has learned more from the point. Yeah. You know, we're coming on and seeing we're, you know, after that was all done and the ups and downs of that and the, you know, with okay, well, how can we do better? We've also learned a lot from some of the tips that we have gotten into. We've good and bad. Yeah, exactly. And um fortunately, we've benefited more than we've gotten hurt, but we've definitely learned from both sides of it. You know, the Curtis Strauss was a tough one, but um certainly Patriot was good. Um

Poper was a little bit shaky. I mean, poperri like, you know, that ended up being okay because we, you know, they didn't meet their their goals and we said, "Okay, well, you're done then." And I think that was a good I'm really glad that we did that because the precedent is if you don't live up to your end of the bargain, we're not going to look the other way, right? Um well, that's more of a monitoring. You know, that kind of changed the way that we monitor tips. But but I think also other boards might be like, "Oh, we don't want to we don't want to scare the businesses away. We're just going to let them let it ride." Yeah, I understand that. Um I mean, I think like the example tiffs you have in here.

Yeah. The fact that they're only five years makes them more palatable to me than something that was 10 or 15 or I don't know. The Patriot one was really long, wasn't it? Oh, isn't they're crazy. No, Patriot wasn't. It wasn't. Oper was long. Yeah, I think it's And you can relook at five years. I think I think a 5year TIFF is much much more for me. That That's okay. Patriot benefited immensely from the state. Basically, if we put skin in, the state was gonna like Yeah. Give it like if we gave 5,000 then we're gonna say we give 25,000 or something. If I recall correctly, the state doesn't do anything unless the town does. Absolutely. Right. Correct. Right.

So, the fact that it was right next to the railroad tracks, the whole siding and everything, there was there was a lot going for them with that site. Sorry. So, in looking at the at West Springfield, for example, um and then Springfield too, they had a it was sort of two parts. They put together a process for approving a tiff and then they put together the criteria for what goes into into negotiating a tiff. One thing that I thought was interesting about with Springfields is that they they have a you know a pretty rigid table here. Yeah. Um I like that one. I like that too how they did it. No, that surprises me. Yeah. Why? Well, cuz you're always saying you want more. you know, we need we need flexibility and we need to be able to

um well, they went with solid numbers, though. You could f you can flex in there. We you could flex it. It's just I I um I don't like to use Springfield as an example for what we're trying to do in Littleton. But I mean, what are the the tips that worked in Littleton? You know, that that too th those I would like to see what what worked and what didn't work. We can also look at um the 495 belt has there's other partnerships like you're talking about the route three partnerships there's the 495 the metro west and and a lot of those have been um a lot of tiffs have been done for in the pharmaceutical and and biotech space

to try to get people to come to the communities um and they've been met with some pretty good successes. So I think there's there's some available. Not a tiff's not necessarily a bad thing. Just you just need to make sure that you're you're protecting yourself. Right. Right. And some of those tiffs because because the pre the the administrations in the state have been actively pursuing the biomedical things of that. A lot of communities did the bare minimum tiff just so they'd be eligible for the for the windfall at at the state level which is which is huge which is you know which is

which has benefited a lot. Well, we also have the unfortunate our location being so close to Devon's and you're not going to beat what they do. I mean, their benefit they're getting they are building out. They're not much room left to build out, but a lot of room, but they just look at look at over there. We they're not as competitive as they used to be. They used to be able to steal steal our commercial base. I mean, that's pharmaceutical center now. I think this ch maybe get that tiff committee that's outlined in the financial policy together. Get Kathy around have her talk about what's worked, what hasn't worked. Yeah.

As as far as the the Springfield one, whichever one that list that I'm not a fan of how they did that. What the structure of the structure too structured too? Okay. I think but I mean this you do your limits you know if we decide we going to go to five years whatever to to Matthew's point to Chuck's point I mean it's and we should just say that right we go anywhere from 1 to 5 years period and not say 25 jobs is going to get you this and 50 jobs is going to get you that that's I mean do do you think it would make more sense to tie the the actual percentage to some index or or target.

Well, is that feasible to do? We can get into that with our meetings for sure. Okay. I I I know what you're I what I what I mentioned I'm just saying we need some type of a table because it seems like looking at the previous test and were you on one of the difficulties there there's not like a really solid why how did you guys get there? We there was no nothing really guiding you beside you know it was more of a negotiation which this will be as well but there'd be nice it would be nice to have some structured little structure to it so we go in with a game plan we're not going to really shift we can shift a little bit but we're not going to shift too much right thinking of the future that's

and that's why you want to keep it structured but not overly structured that you're kind of yourself basically yeah but don't forget we're also going to have multiple areas of independent development at 550 King Street. Yeah. So, it's not all going to be under him. Like the hotel, for example, they're going to be independent. Y and they're going to be walking in and saying, "Okay, we would this is what but like you found out and and there was a text that you sent me. The tiff isn't on the residential piece. It's just on the commercial piece." Correct. We're not authorized to do the residential. We're not Gateway City. Correct.

Correct. Thank God. So when you get that that estimate that's saying that there's, you know, $200 million of value coming in, you really got to look at how much is commercial. Correct. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Just master law has a parameter of 5 to 20 years. So as much as we'd like to do like a one year or two year just to kind of you got to do five. Yeah. You got to do between the five and a 20 year. Um what was IBM on? a million like a 30 year. No, I think it was 20 they got reuped. It was Oh, did they? I think it might have. I think you can reup you have to go back to town. I think the year it came up they moved out.

The year was going to start costing. You know what it was? No, it was close to the end. That's right. It was a couple years ago it ended. But co had a lot to do with that. Literally couldn't get a hold of them. Yeah. They didn't they did bring a lot of value policies. I I sent Karen a list of town. The one from Auburn, town of Auburn is a decent policy. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Anybody? Are we good? Yep. All right. Uh speed limit on Shadic Street. Gary, that was your item. Can you Yeah. talk to us a little bit about what your uh Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Thank you. Thank you very much. So, just a lot of um you know, a few residents uh talked to me um about noticing noticing the the 25 mph speed limit signs or asked some of them asked for a speed limit sign not knowing that it was going to be 25 where I believe it was marked at 15 before before what um before town before we tore it up. Okay. Yeah. Before this center went in. Um okay. So, and I don't know I whether that's true or not. I I don't know it whether it was 20 or 15. I'm not sure but I think it was 15. People told me it was 15 for 47 years.

Yeah. So for 47 years. So when it changed and you know I saw it on the end and um granted it was put in place because of a school and I which is interesting because it you know I was talking to Jim it's not it's actually was slower than a school zone right so that probably took into account this is a rural side road off the main street you don't want people using it as a shortcut a whole lot of things go into that senior center

um I would argue you um that the the only thing that changed by this not being a school is um the buses aren't here. I mean, you still have you're going to have with park and wreck still in this building. Um with library the library here, children still coming up and going walking to the common. Um

granted the we haven't added a population base here really. It's the same population with our senior population and the residents, but we are we already know the increase in um usage by the senior center is staggering how much they they're getting a lot more use there. Um so all that being said, I just think we really need to look at it and I I was trying to figure out a way Well, I I know the our bylaws are that no no speed limit can change without select board's approval. I I think that's pretty clear. So this the the speed limit going to all the rest of Littleton quote unquote speed limit because that's we became a 25 mph community. Sure. It makes sense I think on face value. Um but without really sitting with the chief of police you know listening to residents um they see it every day and um having more of a discussion. Do we need to really look at that? Is 25 too fast? Um what are what are our um what rule set are we governed by? You know, I I know researching it with you, you shared some um different language that the state uses on congested area. Well, congested area is only it's a 30 m hour speed limit. We can't even use that.

It's statutory based upon mass general laws. It's school zone is 20 mph and it was 15 originally from what I what I understand when it was a school back decades ago. Yep. And then um uh and then it it but at this point if a school zone is 20 m an hour, a thickly settled which would be Shadock Street is 30 m an hour and then outside the thickly settled area would be 40 miles an hour and then you keep on going to Well, it never go over 25 because we just didn't post it 25 but and that's it.

Why did it go away? Why did Why did 15 get taken down?

Right. I would I would say I you know I I I drive it all the time, of course, but um I never look at my speedometer. You know, you're just kind of going safe enough. There's always cars parked on the side of the road. There's people on the sidewalk. So, it's just a natural to me that I just don't go over. 20 seemed like a safe. When I when I got going to 25, I got I felt a little bit if somebody if a kid or somebody ran out in front of a car on the side, I would have been like it would have been a little risky. So I somehow I think my me personally, I'd be more comfortable with a 20 mph speed limit there. Um but that's that's me and I just don't know how to get to 20 with this all the statutory guidance that we're we're left with. I I have to believe there's a way for the select board either just to make it 20 m an hour.

Well, you you mentioned it earlier in the discussion we had that the state says this is statutory, but we have the ability to strengthen it. Yeah, but I I don't know if I'm hoping that's true when it comes to this, right? You can add two, but you can't take away from, right? So, you couldn't make it if the state couldn't make it 40. the states is a maximum, not a minimum is what you're hoping.

Yeah. I just um I I just think that it's the the 25, especially with a newly paved road, of course, just feels like you're going to get people going 30 35, right? Um that's just how I feel about it. I'd like to hear everybody else, but that's why I wanted to bring it up because I I did um talk to a few residents. I did test drive myself on that road a few different ways um different times a day. Um so that's all.

What is the deciding factor to you? Is it that residents want the it lower or is it that it's a library or then that there's a library here? Yeah, I think if you're a resident, you know, I'll let and I'll let there's a few residents here that will speak. M um you know I'd like the speed limit to be 15 miles in front of my house too of course. Mhm.

But by changing it from a 15 now to a 25. Um that's noticeable that that's even that's more noticeable to somebody. You visually can see that now. Not necessarily to me because or people that drive it all the time, but someone that's come down the road that looks at a speed limit. Oh, how fast is my Oh, am I going too faster here? Um they see it. So, I um yeah, I just uh with or without a school there, I think 25 when I look at some of the other streets throughout Littleton where we have the standard 25 across the the board, I think Shadic just doesn't feel safe at 25. That's just that's me. That's my personal opinion.

So, in front of FA Park, it's also 20, right? It's 25. I thought we moved down to TW. It moves down to 20 as you get towards the intersection. I know. You live there. Um there is a speed limit sign right where it hits Foster. But I think it but I think you're I think it is 25. So even that's a little bit different for me. The visually open. Wow.

Well, the So here's the other thing. Shadic is really short. Like what do you need to hurry along that for? like like either you're going someplace on Shadic Street in which case you'll be there in terms of or you're bypassing something in which case you shouldn't be doing it. So I have no problem with this being 15 or 20 or 25. Like there's no no one's going to get inconvenienced by there being a slow speed limit. I mean I would ask that we put we do we do it everywhere else. We we just put out put the machine out there and see what it let's get a month's worth of data. Let's see really how fast people are driving. And I bet I bet you'll be surprised. You think it's going to be high? I do. Cuz we we we like we thought that too on Lakes Shore and it wasn't right. Oh, I know.

So, yeah, you're right. We should we should see what it just to see. And I I think it's um it's worth that's just and I know that's just a small piece of the puzzle. We went against that on Lake Shore. We we decided no, it it's too fast so we're going to slow it down. Um, but I mean whether it's a commercial property, all the industrial parks have 10 li 10 miles and 15 mph speed limits or I go to Madna, they've got a 10 mph speed limit. Um, and I I notice when it says 10, I'm probably going 18 to be honest. You know, and if it's if it says 20, then it's just human nature, you know. Yeah. They're not going to pull me over five, right? Exactly. That's how that's

so it's just I think it's just human nature and I think if the signs there says 25 30 you get 25 is already too fast. So I I think if we do put up a 15 people are still going to go 20. Yeah. But to Matthew's point it's not that long a road. It's now paved. It's narrow. It is narrow. Especially when there's cars parked on the side. Yeah. It's like one way. Yeah. Most of the time. Well, am I right? I don't mean I don't really come to these town meetings that often. I came a few years ago, but I had saw a driver just um pull into the new 31 driveway and went up the wrong way on Sunday. So,

um it happens quite frequently. I understand the town's changing and all that. So, are we That was at one point that was a point of discussion as well, whether we wanted to keep it one way, right? And that's still that's more designed I think on seeing how this building presents itself to are we are we but I think by having this new facility which we know has increased a lot of people terrific. Yeah. And up the speed limit 10 miles an hour whether it should have been or shouldn't have been or whatever we did. Mhm.

So that I don't know I would like I would at least like to say you know what that center now has been there a year or two. We've got better data. You know, we we've done a a speed study out there. Um and it but we haven't even done that. I think it was just road got paved, everything got redone. Rest of little There's no school here. Rest of Littleton speed limit sign went up. I'm sure that's Steve what Steve Yonley did. Sure. Don't rest a little bit. That's our law. Makes sense, right? Our law is that your def your default speed limit in this town is 25 miles an hour. Unless that was something that was pre-existing. No, once the school moved out, the school zone goes away.

Yeah. I mean, you could you could argue the select board 30 years ago, right? We could argue that made the decision after the school was gone to leave that at 15. We could have that's when it should have been argued, right? Okay. That's when it should have been argued. I don't want to get into a discussion about that. I'm just saying that is our default speed limit. It makes sense to me why 25 posted.

Yep. So, the question is, does this board, you know, I like Mark I'd like to see hear Mark's opinion, too. So, I I don't say we have to rule on anything tonight, but I don't think um but I think we you need to do some more research on it just to see where what everybody feels and you know, get some input from the public obviously too. But yeah. Yeah. Chuck, just if I may, there's um there has been discussion about you know, do we make that two-way? Do we deadend it in front of the senior center, right? And then make that side of it two-way. So, I think I'd love to hear from

residents that are on Shadic Street if if they're open to that and where this discussion needs to come. But, you're right, we've been kind of trying to see where this all plays out with the senior center and what happens with this building and um so we've kind of been slow playing it if you will, but Steve days yet, right? You can expect a surge for a while and then we have to see how it settles. Yep. But Steve Steve has Steve the police chief and the fire chief have all said that if that's if that's the way the board wants to go then right they'll make it work and they but we where where where and when did they say that? I've had conversations with them. you're talking about in general

just just as far as if we would have a if we would if the if you were to have the conversation the first thing to do would be have have a meeting with the residents and see if we can you know if that's something that how they would yeah like that to go and this is something that we've been talking about for 10 years we'll put a put a nice slow speed bump in there somewhere that'll slow things speed bump will slow things down right at the shadow street let's get some uh if anybody has anything to say please come up to the podium Sure. Uh, please state your name and your address and please limit your remarks um to 10 minutes actually.

Don't worry about that. Uh, Todd Solder 28 Shadic. Uh, thank you uh, Mr. Wilson for bringing the concerns up. Uh, so I've been here on Shadic for uh, two or three years now and uh, sitting on the front porch. Uh great street to live on. Lots of pedestrian traffic. Uh lots of bike riders, lots of dog. It's a it's a really nice street to live on. Uh but it in my mind I I see close calls and I see I see tragedy waiting to happen sometimes. Uh you know, more than just a typical thickly settled street. Uh it's very unique in certain ways and you can just go down one by one. Uh as Mr. Wilson brought up. Uh starting with the the senior housing uh residents that uh the street begins with there. Uh those residents use the street for for for their walks and walking their dogs. Many with canes, many with walkers, many stumbling, many of course potentially getting into the time of life. You're getting cognitive change and things like that. Lots of potential for those to get in the road there. And then of course immediately uh after the senior center, as you brought up, you have the service road uh down to the athletic fields. and sitting from our porch frequently seeing uh you know large group of kids spilling out uh kids on bicycles that really need to rev up to get up that big hill and some of them barely you know make that turn onto the sidewalk and uh yeah it gets you know if you can see it happening where uh somebody just going a little fast paying attention or not paying attention uh that could happen and and the pedestrian traffic uh in general in addition to those two hazards is seems to be picking up in just the three years that I've I've been there. Of course, it's a very very uh uh popular uh cut through for people taking walks through this through this nice part of town, dog walkers. And so, uh when you sit on the porch, I mean, it's it's very common. You can't go, you know, 10 20 seconds without the next

pedestrian going by. So, uh I think it's it's more unique than just the typical thickly settled. In in many ways, I think it could be considered uh even more hazardous than certain school zones just because of the things I mentioned. Uh you mentioned narrow roadway. What's happening, what we've noticed recently this week is because there's only a sidewalk on one side, many people walking the other way, especially if they have a dog, will walk on the road itself. And so you've got people using the road and the sidewalk just adding to the mix there. So, uh I really appreciate your uh your attention to the matter and and further discussion. And I'm of course in favor of of pulling it down to to 15 uh if or whatever the the law allows. And if it has to be something higher than 15 uh because of of statute, then at least some additional signage that amplify the need for increased caution whatever the speed limit decides to be.

So thank you again. Thanks Tom. Do you have any thoughts on the oneway, two-way? I imagine that's another meeting to come. So that's a potentially then I'll go well beyond 10 minutes but uh I prefer not to not to my pre preference would be to handle shadic street do it done. Yeah whether that'll prevail I don't know but that's that's my personal preference. Understood. I mean I think so if you have thoughts I'd love to hear them.

Sure. I mean, the thoughts on uh a a a two-way with a with a culde-sac on on either side with with some sort of division in the in the middle after the uh the the entrance or the second entrance towards the center makes makes a lot of sense in uh in my book. Um that would certainly reduce the the traffic itself from from from coming from the uh the the other King Street side. So, yeah. Uh but uh really I've got I didn't focus a lot of my thoughts on that. The more the more long-term residents might have a lot more to say about that than than I would, but uh for the speed limit itself, I uh I appreciate your attention there. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, Megan. 28 Shadic Street. I can't believe I've lived there almost 20 years. I was doing the math in my head and I can't believe that. But anyway, um a few years ago we had a front porch built for the sole purpose of being able to sit out on the front porch and just kind of people watch and and so I think that we could provide a good study. In fact, last night we were sitting there watching and one of the first things I noticed was that nobody was using the sidewalk. There was one person out of eight people that walked by that used the sidewalk and everyone was walking on the road. Some of them were on our side of the road, some were next to the sidewalk. And I thought, why don't people use the sidewalk? But it's true. People think of Shadic Street as a smaller street. Even though there is an available sidewalk, people are choosing to use it almost like a path. And it is a shorter street, a narrow street. And then when I just brought up the word path, we had talked about it being a school zone. Well, that path off of Shadic Street across the street from my house leads to two schools and those kids are walking up the path from the schools to go to the library and to go home this way. So, they use that that is a direct path to to schools.

Um, and then not to mention the seniors walking. Um, my parents used to live over at 19 Shadic Street. My dad used to walk back and forth, back and forth, going to the library. I actually um one of our neighbors that has a dog, their dog got hit by a car while it was on the leash on Shadic Street by um well I won't get into the details but um one of the big things that I'd like to bring up is the fact that it is a one-way road right now and half of the people that are residents on that street have to cross the street to get their mail because the mail does are only on one side of the street, the right side as you're coming down. So, I have to walk across the street every day to get my mail. And electric cars are silent. You cannot hear them coming. Now, I have hearing pretty good. I do have a little mild highfrequency hearing loss, but some people that are older might not hear electric cars coming. And if they decide to not use the sidewalks and walk on the road and a car's flying down there going 25 miles or more because like you said, usually if the sign says 25, you go, you have to add a little cushion onto that. So, that is very dangerous. I've been standing um I walk across my driveway to to get the mail and I'll be standing in front of my mailbox on the road and I turn around to walk back and all of a sudden there's a car suddenly right there that I didn't hear coming. And if they're going fast and they didn't see me, they could easily clip me. So, my biggest point is safety first. It has to be safety first. And all of my concerns are 100% safety. There's no other reason why I wouldn't want this back at 15. I don't know why it would ever go up. It's going to cause an accident and hindsight foresight. Um I would choose to have the foresight of safety first. The cultoac idea with the retaining wall. I'm 100% all for that. I think that would be an a fabulous idea

to make the first part of um as you're coming down Shadic Street be two-way with like a dead end and a turnaround and then have the other end be a way for people to get in and out of the new um little center here campus. That's that's my that's my Thank you. Thanks, Megan. Could put a cowbell on electric cars. That's the a bylaw. a whistle. Good.

My name My name's Emily Murphy. I live at 27 Shadic Street and I apologize for talking beforehand. So, I just don't know the rules regulations and I Yes, I've been on the street for 48 in October. Um, and I'll be moving forward in life. And the last time I spoke here was four four or five years ago and I had a mask on and I'm pretty much saying the same thing. Safety first. I've seen the elderly come down. Um when you see a fire truck roll down the street and there's cars parked on the side. I know people park on the side of street and that's fine. And I think I think 15 would be great. And the keeping a oneway or a cula sack. I just would like them slow. And you might notice my face. I run a lot. I ride my bike and truly it's even like I'm coming up shack street on the sidewalk and I'll be honest sometimes I'm running on the road.

I I'm on it. Guilty.

I'm guilty. But I'm also taking the responsibility that I am aware of a car coming down the road but I'm also aware of the people who want to get their you know I use the library too want to get their books quicker and really do not have the patience to wait until I'm fully across the crosswalk. So, I'm just here to speak on behalf of 15, but I thoroughly like the history cuz I'm not into the whole speed limits of the states and all the bylaws and whatnot, but 15 would be great. Keeping it one way would be great. Um, a callac would even be even better. Um, just and some improvement. And my final thought is that I received a lot of communication when the senior center was being built. Um, everyone was really communicative and that was one thing I was asking prior to the first meeting. I know it's nothing to the speed limit, but I just want to say thank you for communicating thoroughly to the project manager thoroughly next door to me. Um, I appreciate all that and just hopefully um I'll be a part of more if you know there's more meetings. Like I said, he's like you just nip it you know right now 15 call the staff one way. I just want I just want people to understand that the seniors are out there. Kids are running up and down the track, you know, does their uphill sprints. I can hear the whistleblowing. I'm like, I wish I could be fast as them, but I'm not there anymore. Um, but just just just be aware like we have Uber drivers dropping off food or, you know, um, Instacart and they they just go up the wrong way and it's it's difficult. And I'm understand we're all growing. The street's growing. this the town's definitely growing and I accept that and I know that there's times you just when you can speak at the town meeting I didn't mean to be like right on it but just like my heart and soul is I've been here for that long and who knows what down the road where where I might be in life and I'm excited for that adventure. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks.

Anybody else John Pablo? I'm John Popp, 24 Shadic Street. I think the speed limit would be a great help, but in my experience, so much of the traffic coming down the street comes from that end of the end of town. and they go right by the entrance where they could come right in here. Instead, they go all the way up to the end of the street and then come flying down. So, blocking the street off, having the one entrance opposite the funeral home like it is now. So, people have to use that that'll that and with the speed limit would make the street much safer. So I think it's both. We need we need to do both.

Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Right. So we're my sense is that we would like to do a traffic study or speed study. Speed data. Yeah. Yeah, speed data and then um I guess move forward also on discussion of what you know how if you were to culdeac the end of that there's not much room there. I know Mr. Netor's got the the last piece of property on that what I don't know what the requirements are. I know if we've done a study Steve would have to

you know something has to be there for I know you if if it was just a uh a gate then you have the fire department like they have emergency they can get through it or whatever. Um, so it isn't something that has to be a permanent solid structure, something that can move open like emergency services or something like that. But, um, because you're I I know initially you're going to have, if you were to do that, you're probably going to have a hundred people come to the dead end. Come to the dead end until they figure it out. Oh my. no matter how much signage, how many months we're going to, you know, the residents going to have to deal with something like that where, okay, now they're turning around people's yards and their driveways and it's going to

So, um, we have to, that's something else to look at. But I think we can address the speed limit issue. Either way, we we can run forward with, you know, the study and everything because if you were going to block that end, you would probably make that 15. Now, what I mean, yeah, there's no restraint. The only reason why it's not 15 is because it's a three-way, right? I mean, a dead end road. You just Why is anybody driving more than 15 zip down the road, you know? But, um, so, you know, I was thinking like Conant is a good example of another street that's very, very similar. And I think the speed limit on that is 20. Yeah. Like that's that's the same width. Like cars are always parked on the side. It's short. There's always people out walking.

That's 20. I think it's 20. I like I'm pretty sure it's it's 20. Yeah. I'm going to do I mean it's a little more research we can do as a as a board drive around and look at couple I want to see a couple where those 20s are where they land because yeah you're right Steve probably has it on the Steve of the police department. Yep. Yeah. Dave is available.

I think I think we need to attack this from a couple different angles, right? Um yes, we need to address the speed limit. I think we do need to think about the traffic pattern. I think we should also try to think about how we can get folks up on that sidewalk. Um because even if it's even if it's a culde-sac, um it's not a pedestrian mall. Um, so if there's I don't you know, maybe Steve has some ideas as to what what would make what would guide folks to be using that um sidewalk more and what's holding people back. So when you said that, you know, folks aren't using the sidewalk, I wondered, is it uneven? Is it tricky for, you know, somebody with a walker to to handle uneven pavement? I don't know.

I think it's just a path. It feels like a path. It really does. I I've walked it and it it's almost like an afterthought. There's got to be there's got to be some nudges, right, that we can that we can do. But that's that happens everywhere. People don't walk. I literally was going with the 495 bridge. There's a sidewalk right there and there's a guy walking on the bridge. I'm like, what? Yeah. So, I mean, we can do all that we can do to try to make people. Sure. But on, you know, if we're going to be fatalist about it, people are going to speed, so I have a speed limit, right? I think it's worth looking into if there's any u because I know Steve would be aware of like I said you know the nudge theory right how can you

make it more attractive for folks make people you know consciously decide no I don't want to walk on the sidewalk versus oh I'm just going to walk on whatever surfaces yeah if you under my feet you cuck that you you've just eliminated 90% of the traffic traffic 90% eventually yeah Yeah, it'll happen after the learning curve as soon as Google Maps updates. Yeah, every way. Yeah. Yeah. We have the same problem. Every like once every quarter, Star Hill connects through to Foster Street on Google Maps. Oh, that's funny. To one, I mean. And like you get like I get a week of two people a day coming into our yard and then Can you get through there? No. You in a truck? I couldn't get I didn't mean it. I'm sorry.

Yeah. And then they fix it and then three months later it happens again for about a week. It's really funny. It's interesting. Anyway, all right. Anything else on this? No. So, um, traffic study and yeah, speed study. Conent is 25. Adam Conent is 25. But, you know, when I drive it, I drive 20 20 or 25 because I'm really I don't know if I'm the I I don't know if I'm the exception, but on a street that narrow with all those cars, like I just you know, yeah, it is often cared. Yeah. So, I feel like Shadex's the same.

So, we get a traffic study and then get some Mark's input too on the next time we discuss it after the traffic. I'm sure he's got something to say. So, nothing happens between now and then. and we'll just be sure to communicate with you. Let you guys know. Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Um, thanks for coming out. Minutes June 20th and June 23rd. All correct as far as I could tell. I trust Matthew. I didn't see anything. Everybody's good with it. Yeah. I like that the um the goals one was a little more detailed. That was good. I know that had that chat GPT probably but

yeah just looked different than normal. Um I didn't have any changes. Okay. All right. Move that the select board vote to approve the meeting minutes from the select board retreat on June 20th, 2025 and the select board meeting on June 23rd, 2025. Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I I motion to adjurnn. Second move by Matthew, seconded by Chuck. Move. All those in favor? I I Thanks everyone. Stay