Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Now being 630. We're here for the planning board meeting. Thursday, June 24, 2026.

Let's start by First agenda item. Minutes of prior meetings. Has anyone had a chance to look at them? So that being said, can I have a motion to and you said you might not do item B, closed peer review accounts.

Yeah, let's put a hold on that. Accounting is like triple-checking things, and we're finding a few.

Okay.

Number for item C, planning board goals. We just spoke about various things at our retreat last meeting, and Cooper circulated a... call it survey prioritization. Okay. Has everyone had a chance to sort of find it hard to fill out because everything's there's nothing that I, you know, if we brought it up in the meeting, it seemed like part of my point through this exercise with you was to

It was a lot of work, priorities, and we'd like to focus on those that are most important to us.

Right. That makes sense. That concludes our scheduled board business. Is there anything else? Or Martin?

I've been hearing a lot of rumblings and rumors. It sounds like a Fleetwood Mac album of what's happening at the Donalyn's property. And I know we've had like some discussion and whatnot. I think it would be good to kind of bring it out in a public forum as well to say basically like what can happen there? What do we know has happened there? And then what's just conjecture?

I hear, I have yet to hear that it has been sold to a car dealer. We all have sort of gone back to the planning documents and would show that it's in the village common district in which auto dealers and automotive services are not allowed not even by special permit. Does anyone know anything more? Lauren, have you had any contact?

No, not had any official contact with the prospective buyer. My guess is it's probably still in purchase and sale process, given the usual lengthy amount of time that commercial sales take. I would imagine that they're doing due diligence at this point, but that's just a conjecture. my part.

So we could say sold to a car dealership.

Well, we don't know.

And I'll explain my source, which is someone who works for Donald's at the acting store, who has been told by management, and also was told that Bill

it does sound like even if it is sold to a car, like anybody can buy things, but they can't operate a car dealership there or hold inventory there per the zoning laws. Right?

Yeah, I guess.

I mean, we'll find out what they have in mind. But in my view, it's the most prime site in the form based code village common district for redevelopment into, you know, excuse us and If they were buying it for that, great.

Let's see what they have in mind. And its use as a grocery store would be grandfathered. Yeah, because that's just existing. Anything else would be a change of use. You would need to go through the proper permitting for that.

But thanks for bringing that up because it is the source. I mean, it is.

I mean, I think you just pull the chain. You don't want that glowing. He's just glowing. I didn't bring a hat. Thank you.

Sorry about my glow. I'm just excited to be here. Yes. Did you have one? Agenda item number two at 6.35, we are going to open the public hearing for Blue Blue Farm.

so public hearing open space development special permit stormwater permit aquifer district special permit ubert farm 359 king street littleton planning board will hold a public hearing on thursday june 25th 2026 to a stormwater permit under section 38-11 through 38-67. And three, an aquifer and water resource district special permit under section 173-61 through 173-67, all of Littleton with town code property 359 King Street. Assessor's map U18, lot 104, owner applicant 359 King Street. hours any person interested wishing to be heard on the proposed work should provide written comment to the planning board office or attend the public hearing any questions please contact the planning board office and use our yes phone number and email address and sign margo bloom steve clerk um to begin um

was reviewing the various comments and the fire department doesn't want you to call this. I'm just curious. I mean, we're going to talk about his bluebird farm and I just want people to know that in depth not called. It has nothing to of who is here to speak about this project.

Yes. Cheryl Gold, attorney for the applicant. I'm coming late to the party. This was a plan designed by the engineer. I think he's done a very nice job. And we can walk you through the pages and describe the site, describe what's going on here. I think it went out to peer review last week. I thought we would have some general discussion tonight, open the hearing here. Whether you have concerns, whether the abutters have concerns, bring that back to the engineer when he's back from his vacation.

And then perhaps, Myron expressed to me that we have a list of waivers. If a waiver is issued in 2004, here we go. So this is generally the site. And the abutters will see that.

Existing house in the front.

Oh, thank you very much.

Existing house in the front, if you're not long enough to remember, it was on by Richard and Paulette Crowley, and they had one barn, and they had other animals here, and then more recently, Dwight Long purchased it, and he had it rented for a while to some people there. So anyone who's familiar with that knows that this site was actively involved in farming.

The site is pretty much up in King Street, the youth school area, and that's the acre.

The back is dissected by an infant scream on a townspan-form mark to that street. structure or the body barn structure. So the two units on the right will be new units. Single family, three bedroom each. And then the body barn will be a single family, three bedroom unit. And then the two family house will probably have two students in it, each a single family with three bedrooms in it. There will be a shared separate system for those. And there will be a new three And that is probably all going to be left in natural conservation protected areas for perhaps more farming and most new grazing as it has always been.

I'm sure we all have questions.

Is there any intent to put a conservation easement on the back part of it?

Under the open space plan, we probably will put some conservation restrictions on it, but not open to the public because I think they're going to want to use it for animal grazing and animal raising and perhaps a barn area, maybe what's allowed under conservation laws, but to allow animals.

I guess to follow up on that, so would it be animals owned, like livestock owned by the people living in those homes, so consider them still like farmhouses?

Most likely. I mean, I wouldn't rule out that we board someone else's animal. Okay. But yes, most likely it will be the involvement of the homeowners to have farm rights or animal rights.

So we just need that properly restricted that there's no future housing development allowed in that space.

I think under the open space law that's... We just need it properly recorded that there's no misunderstanding about future development.

Because I think they said, I think they submitted, the engineer submitted a proof plan showing that the site would accommodate five units and that's where we're coming from. There it is on the proof plan that would accommodate five units. I don't think there would be any more and I don't think that wetlands would permit anyone to put anyone back there.

Why or were you, would you have been able to connect to the town store?

No, they were coming down King Street apparently, but then they rerouted on Shattuck. On Shattuck, okay. I mean that is You could go to C601. I can't follow which page it is on. It's got purple on it. There we go. I mean, there were a lot.

So we.

We have had two meetings with conservation. One was over the winter time to confirm that the area on the top of the screen right in the middle is an isolated wetland. And two weeks ago, we had a conservation walk with chairman of the conservation commission and the wetlands biologist from glider associates and myself just to go over the footprint of the future so there's no no impact

access to get into the fields. So if you look, you can't see very well from here. If you look to the left of the lap line, there's this weird looking structure that goes all the way up through there. I guess that's what I thought was very painful. That's just Oh, that's a cat. It's a cat. Okay, so that was retaining wall or a cat as well.

That's a cat.

That's a cat. That's a cat. That's a cat.

That's a cat.

That's a cat. That's a cat. That's a cat. in the web zones that somebody has authority to sort of buff that.

That's more so that isn't buffered zone, but it's for an island area that will be somewhat elevated for that planting bed. There's no active weapons in that spot at the present time.

Activity, with respect to wetlands, is relevant.

We see all these numbers on the plan, and also the stream pool we're speaking about.

I also think that the subject size is going to limit the possibility of an ADU, just because it's more than a size difference for subject capacity. That makes sense. five services per five units.

Could you describe the form of ownership of these units? It will be one. Just describe what you're thinking.

It will probably be ASU with all open spaces, accounting, form of ownership, and each unit will get an exclusive history branch to it and be able to share access comment and observation I have to park somewhere, and Kingscreen is really not the place.

So to the extent that it's exaggerated, I think that it's useful for that purpose. But that's my opinion. Good input. Thank you. Is there any representation of what these two new structures will look like?

So there'll be ranch style. Mr. Long and his wife, Mary Lou, will be living in one. Mrs. Long has aggressive form of MS, so he's trying to make it. He's not trying to. We will make that unit handicap accessible in all capacities. So farmhouse ranch style, very low profile, much like the model that we used on Robinson Road, those THE KIND OF STORY AND A HALF. WE PRESENTLY HAVE DONE AN ARCHITECTURAL PLAN, EXCUSE ME, FOR THE YOUNG FAMILY.

Anyway, I think it's great. He built it on the back of the street. Everything looked basically like Apple. We've heard about it somewhere, but we haven't. Since the Luton, John and Karen lived there at some point, there's some rooms in this in Mexico, Texas, Boston, and San Pedro. I think for a house that was built in the 1800s, they are part of the house bus.

They

someone in town called the littleton giant and i think his giant shoe is in the historic society and you know that's about all i know how tall was he i have no idea i think like seven foot ten we are mr chairman we are

Dismantling the barn portion of the house because it's not if we've done an analysis of it. We had a Structural engineer go in and it's not If we do not have the ability to remodel we have to put a foundation underneath it So we will take the barn portion apart, but we will be rebuilding it. So it looks almost identical to the present Streetscape that you see at this time You have experience with that

little bit and it'll allow you to have a full basement yes okay okay so any other questions I mean I think as we indicated at the first meeting at the informal meeting we had in this week in general were you know favorable for this and I Because I understand that from our and from the planning point of view, and one reason she asked for waivers is that, would you explain what the sort of technicality is?

So our open space development bylaw references the design guidelines in the sub control in the subdivision regulations and the town regulations and any planning board has the right to grant waivers from those subdivision regulations which have to have the list of waivers so we of course will you know look forward to whatever waivers are required we look forward to helping that along yeah and that'll also ease the peer review process because rather than reviewing to the subdivision standards.

He's reviewing to the waivers request. Okay. Now, we're at the point where are there any abutters or residents in the room that would like to ask questions or make comments? Yes?

Sure. I'd like to know about the soil that we have in the area, the groundwater level, and the type of septic system

Marlon, can you go back to the, I believe it's the very, one of the first plans. So, Steve, we test pitted the, very thoroughly. Here's the last one, Marlon.

We test pitted the area, Steve.

Yep. And that's all sand and gravel. And I believe, from what I recall, there was no ground water pressure. There's a soil change, obviously, is one of the things when you get into the hydric soil back here. But this whole area here is all fantastic sand and gravel.

Good. What type of septic system are they looking at?

It'll be a... will be in that area there. And the reserve, thank you, Martin, and reserve field will be adjacent to it. Any idea of type, stone and pipe, or looking at chambers? I believe it's going to be chambers, but I'm not, I'm not the designer. But I, we just finished the preliminary test. Oak Engineering,

Thank you. Anything else that you would like to take over?

As I understand it, we initiated peer review.

Is that true? Okay.

waivers, the list of waivers as soon as our engineer gets back and get those to Myron as soon as possible.

Myron, would it be, when would it be appropriate to schedule the next continuation of this hearing?

So the board's next regular meeting is July 9th.

So our next meeting is tonight.

So the question is whether we think the peer review is going to be ready by tonight. Was it sent off? I know the fee was paid right before the Friday holiday.

Yes, the contract had been signed, but some of what we're waiting for is that list of waivers.

So I think the night would work. We can always postpone if... if the engineer and green haven't had a chance to go back.

So I want you to understand that Barnes point is, is if we had the list of waivers, the purity will be less extensive.

I'm just understood. We just, I'm going to see the engineer until he returns. I think he saw places with the Scotsman.

Oh, like a home swap or something. I think so. Okay. So let's have, Let's do the same thing, 635. Well, do we want to do it that way?

If we don't make it.

Okay.

Well, we'll schedule the next one earlier than otherwise, so we don't have any time. Okay.

I was recommending a motion to vote on continuing.

until July 9th at 635.

And we'll be back in this room at 10.

Second? Second. All in favor?

Aye. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, so

I have a USB, too, if that's easier. I'll grab it. So let me just say that this informal discussion is to update the board and our community on various things that 550 came in 14 .

Do we need to hit something?

The historical convention was great. I basically had to draw the site plan by hand.

Do you want to try the thumb drive?

Yeah, there should be an option where you can pick to duplicate it, but it's not showing up.

Sorry about that.

Hopefully back there. That's what the... This is the situation where you guys have to stop running around.

trouble before. Sure.

That expression that I'm talking about design architecture. You're gonna have to sing about architecture. Just whatever plug it into. Is it possible to throw it up there over the Wi Fi?

This connects directly from the floor box. If we had a Zoom setup, we could share, but we don't, unfortunately.

We're going to presentation.

Sorry about this, guys.

I didn't know why this was... Did it recognize that you're on the computer that throws up the display?

No. So the option I guess we have is... I can call Mark.

Mark can figure that out because it's weird that it would stop working now.

It is on our screen. We can share this now, and then we'll post this to the planning board page of the website. Okay. We don't have this one posted to the website.

Yeah, so that's ours.

Go ahead. So, Mr. Chair, members of the board, Morgan Pearson with the polling companies. Here before you this evening to provide a preview of our upcoming submission, where we'll be back before the board on July 9th. just want to recognize some members of the teams here from the . We have Sal and Mary, as well as Gary Armstrong from our team, who you are familiar with. So if we go to the next slide, we're providing, I think, a very familiar site plan to the board here, wanting to highlight the upcoming submissions, really, which is focused on sort of the left side of the plan. At 410 Great Road, we plan to submit for at Fort Tech Railroad. And then we are also submitting what we're calling phase two of the retail, which consists of what we're calling sort of an anchor retail tenant that's outside the form-based code, as well as a smaller retail building that's along our main boulevard within the project, and then also establishing the relocation of the title house On that front, there is an update for the board. We were able to meet with the historical commission and they unanimously voted in favor of the relocation of the title to this location. They were very pleased with our preservation of the building and the location of it. And I would compliment the board as well, because I think that was a joint effort Thank you. I think that was a collaborative effort with this board to suggest that location, and our team worked on making it possible. And so we were happy to get their support for the tub house relocation. Other things I want to highlight on this for you, and I'm sorry I don't have a laser pointer, but what you'll also see in the coming months is we'd like to try to over-communicate with the town and the board on this. Additional retail opposite the King Street Green, we'll call it, as a placeholder, right in that white box there. the idea there is sort of a preview is housing as well as retail so really being consistent with the master plan special permit approval going back and forth in that front the point i would just make in addition to that heads up to the board is that and you've heard this before from us but it's just very important to have all this flow through we obviously don't want to have an open end on the on the green we want the the retail to speak to each other So all these pieces are very important to getting really lift off on a lot of this. And so you'll see that in the coming months as well. I wanted to just provide the board that heads up and also just reiterate the importance of it to the overall development of the project. So if we go to the next slide, Marin, this is a zoom in at 410 Great Road. Again, I do want to reiterate We wanted to come before the board to provide a preview. So our team, our engineers and architects are, as we speak, literally working on the submission for Monday in order to present at the July 9th meeting. So this will continue to evolve through today, tomorrow, the weekend before the submission. But we've come a long way in collaboration with Hebrew Senior Life. earlier this month. And I think as some would agree, they're just an incredible group that has been around since the early 1900s, probably one of the longest standing senior housing developers and investors in Massachusetts. And we feel very fortunate to be able to have partnered with them. And they have been in lockstep with us as we've advanced this plan here. SOME OTHER THINGS JUST TO NOTE. SO ON THE LEFT SIDE IS THE GROUND FLOOR, ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS THE SECOND LEVEL, AND KIND OF IT GOES UP FROM THERE. ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PLAN, YOU'LL SEE KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF A PARK. THAT IS THE ELASTICS MONUMENT PARK THAT WE'RE PROPOSING. WE'RE CONTINUING TO ADVANCE THE DESIGN ON THAT, BUT AS THE BOARD MAY RECALL, AS PART OF THE SPECIAL PERMIT APPROVAL, WE AGREED TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, A MONUMENT TO THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING, AND SO WE'RE LOOKING TO KIND OF INTEGRATE THAT WITH this project and also provide, you know, as we've continued to learn through Hebrews Senior Life, what they call sort of a senior walking loop. So throughout this campus, there'll be a walking loop for the residents here. And it's really nice to be able to integrate both the history and the exercise and the open space. So we're excited about that. They're thrilled about that as well. So this is continuing to progress. continuing to noodle on that to provide more housing. We've spoken to that, but for now, we're just focused on this first piece with the affordable senior housing. And if you advance, Marne, this is probably too much information, but I wanted to just show that the progress we're making, the amenity spaces we're creating, you know, we're really getting into

I just have one question. Sure. Why do you have the unexcavated?

Yeah, so the site, if you recall, or if you've driven up Great Road, there's just a lot of gray change. And so what we're trying to do is have the building do some of that work for us in capturing different parts of the gray change. And our design and engineering team felt like that right there was a place we could sort of help carry some of that gray change going from King Street down Great Road. So some of that amenity space on the right side there, There won't be really any windows on that backside, but that works with some of the programming for Hebrews in your life. But again, the building is acting as not really a retaining wall, but it helps carry that.

Oh, that makes sense. I just was curious why you just didn't excavate the whole area.

Yeah, I mean, we're trying to capture some of that background floor space as much as we can. And I see what you're saying. Yeah, we're trying to make it economical as well. Our engineers might, I don't know if Gary, if you have a smarter answer to that, but I think they've thought through it and that's what they've determined makes the best sense. So if we keep going, Marin. Yeah, so this is that anchor. They're very focused on making sure we have a group like this coming in, sorry, a retail building the size that is, as they call it, an anchor tenant driving a lot of traffic to the site in a good way so that they come shop and come to the site in general. This is outside the form-based code, but it fits nicely here. If you go to the next image, we have a, again, this is a preview rendering of what it might look like. We're probably taking It's a very good-looking building. And then in the background there, you see some of the future resi that we're tending to, that we have approved already, actually.

My only comment on the site plan, well, you can go through and I can make it later.

Okay. And then moving down towards King Street, again, we have the Tunnel House, which I mentioned. And in this retail building, We are looking to attract a bank for this site, and therefore, you see on this plan, although it's not very clear, we do intend, as part of the submission, you will see a drive-through, which is really important to those banks. This isn't allowed use under the bylaws and code, but it fits really nicely here. And we are making every effort to make it comply and meet all of the form-based code, actually within that area, but still, again, we wanted to match with the rest of the property and the project that the board is very familiar with. It's much more facing on King Street. And if you go to the next slide, you can sort of get a preview. This is not a professional rendering that you're used to seeing from us. This is from the architect, so it's a little bit isolated, but you get a sense of the way we're advancing this, again, in keeping with some of the design you've seen throughout the It certainly is part of the main entry experience to the project, but it's not really going to be as past maybe layouts the board has seen where it was like right on the road or something somewhere closer, it's a little further back. So anyway, we're happy with the way this is turning out and evolving. And then if you go to one more slide, again, this is a draft working with our landscape architect of how that layout could be. I think the board has heard we are appreciative of the flexibility of being able to relocate just the front portion of the tunnel or the entirety of it, depending on what's the best approach from a leasing standpoint and how we can activate that building and have it used. So for now, we're showing the full building being relocated for the sake of this plan. But I wanted to preview this again with the board to show you how it's advancing. I think that's really it. That's what we wanted to share with you, both kind of a double look ahead and then also a preview of what's to come Monday when we submit.

Okay.

Yeah, if you could go back to the Anchor store. My first thought was, you've got a street going through there. That's the car... And the street needs buildings on the side of it. I would think that you just want to put the store closer to that street and the parking in back of it.

Yeah, I mean, what we're doing here is we're advancing conversations with specific tenants. We are looking to their expertise on what works best for their operation. And that is what you're seeing here is really extensive conversation.

That's a standard suburban mall piece. This village is not a standard suburban mall.

Which is why I think we were happy that we could put it off of the, because that's not King Street on Plant South, just to be clear. That's our interior.

It's your interior street. It's going to be a lot of traffic. I think it needs to be defined with buildings, even though a large part of that is the parking garage and building 13.

Right, right. Yeah, I mean, again, I think what they would say, and what the tenants were talking to is their customer, Again, we have this off the road. So from our standpoint, we like the activation of it. It's, you know, in this right side here, the parcel sort of 500, we're calling it, that will have more frontage on that main road too. So I think that'll help soften or maybe activate what you're talking about there.

Is that 500 is the big white space in the middle? Correct, yes. Future housing. Correct, correct. So there'll be retail on the ground floor of that?

There's no current plan for that to have any retail there. We're really trying to confine the retail to the main village that the board has approved.

So the anchor and the bank sort of form one axis, and then the rest of the retail continues. That's correct. That's exactly right.

I would echo what, if I could just jump on that, what Bartlett's saying. as you showed the bank and then this building, I don't know if we can flip between them, but I respect like the bank because it's kind of bleeding out of the form-based code area. And then you've got the, I think it was labeled like neighborhood market on some of the plans opposite it. That's going to be like a transition point between the, the aesthetic of the form-based code, and then what feels very much not like that. And like the initial shot there, and I know this is kind of FPO of the neighborhood market, it feels very austere without windows and kind of like Circuit City, kind of monolithic there. And I'm wondering, can you introduce elements to make it a smoother transition And like some of the things like form-based code calls for things to be pulled up to the street more, even like that street that's cutting through. Maybe as Bartlett suggested, pushing some more of the parking behind it, or maybe not having quite as much parking up there in the front, and then introduce some design elements so that it's not a stark change, but maybe more of like a smoother aesthetic transition there.

Yeah, I hear you. We'll sort of talk with the group that we're heavily pursuing. we're put in a place where we don't want to disadvantage their ability to have success, and we rely on their expertise to say, this is how our stores function best. What I would say, though, is we wanted to show you this image, this rendering, just as a sense, but it really, it's more of a, we're making a statement that this is way more visible than maybe perhaps it ends up being, and also, I'll tell you I think much better than that and a lot more compelling. But I certainly hear you.

And I hear your point about trying to work with potential retail tenants about what is attractive to them. I think just looking at Littleton's interests as this being not something that has dropped into Littleton, but kind of a new entryway into retail in Littleton and a new kind of another front door into this space. um, to make that a little bit more inviting and welcoming, I would think would be good for whoever's occupying that space then too.

Cause I don't know, because I thought it was going to be further down based on when you actually look at the site, but so the rendering may not be there, but you could, you could also look at putting some kind of false facade active, you know, pieces on there just so that, you know, it's not a brick building. Yeah. It doesn't affect the functionality, but it, you know, affects,

And we're still advancing landscaping, too, that isn't shown in that as well.

Because if you look here, it seems to be much further down. Just flip back to that other drawing for a second. The other one.

The other thing I would say, too, and Gary just made a great point, if we go back to that point, thank you, is we also are very mindful of residential and also not have it be up front or visible from Great Road or visible even from the village itself. So there is a tidiness to having it in this location. And, you know, I will say, you know, this never comes through in these plans, but we've spun this building around, we've looked at different prototypes from them, we've put it all over the place. And so it's not like we just plopped it in, it was it was there was a lot that got to this point, which, you know, it's a bit of a Goldilocks situation where residential uses. And so, you know, this is, I mean, we're very pleased with it, but we understand. I hear you certainly on some of your points.

Just the one thing that strikes me, being an engineer, is I'm not sure how well your delivery trucks are going to flow into that lot.

Yes.

Yeah.

Truck turning with the WV67 through there.

If you'll notice, we've eased the edges of the So you come in right and left and you pull up and you back in. So we've already gone through all the effort in that. I mean, again, strategically, the placement of it, how it's oriented, as Morgan was saying, that balance of where the parking goes, allowing the trucks around, keeping the loading where it's in the most convenient spot not to take away from the rest of the facility is a lot of what went into that. But the truck route's And if you see that hashed area, Daryl, too, that's where the truck is. We can't have parking there. Yeah.

No, I'm looking at, it just strikes me, and maybe it's because it's undimensioned and stuff, but that green spot next to the plus 270, the right-hand side of that, you eased the out on the thing there, but that's not eased solo. corner for the delivery trucks to make right there. Your engineers are probably going to look at it, but it strikes me as that is going to be tight right there.

That's interesting.

The people who are going to be the strongest opinion on that, of course, is the tenant, and they're going to make sure that we make that work. That's vital to the operation, as you can imagine.

Anyway, but overall, I don't have any problems with what you're presenting here tonight.

Cause I think you have to defer as much as possible to the housing store. So I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and design it, but, but I would concur with Bartlett and Margo's points. You could have something pretty wonderful up against the street and which would be much more visible to people coming, driving into the... Put it this way. Consider people driving in the boulevard. If this is forward and you have that expression... Anyway, it could be architecturally designed. Your architects can do it. It could draw people in. It would also... You know, one of the stated intentions of this is to engage the, uh, you know, the rest of the community to having the store and to, uh, piggyback off the store and to go into the retail. Well, right now you would be parked, go into the store. You'd have to move your car. Otherwise, you'd have to walk through a parking lot. I don't know. I just think that you ought to consider carefully integrating that whole system. Right now, it seems, and I understand. These are just comments. It is like a Circuit City in a mall parking lot, and you can do better than that. That's all.

Yep, we hear you and we appreciate the feedback. You know, one thing I will work on better displaying too for the 9th is just, I think it is helpful to remember and remind the community too about that form-based code area.

I know, whether you take our comments or not, but I think that if you look at the whole context, it's very separate. because of its location. And you've created this potentially really, and with further development, it's just set off on its own. And that may be how it's used, but we've also heard that the retailers want it to be part of their deal. And people don't want to have to get into their car and out of their car and repark their car and do all that good stuff. So that's all.

And Jeff, which I think are all good points, the retailers really like this as well. And the consumers who are going to the retail shops because they can park there and then they're actually closer to going over to the retail village by being able to park right in front of that building. But also if you guys recall over from 410, it was really difficult to make this strategic move with this group and a couple of other groups that we're talking to, but that's, their preference to have it sit this way. Totally understand. I think we should show you more views to give you a better feel.

Yeah. And this is the case where your, um, AI aren't really, I mean, I noticed trees in the middle of the sidewalk and anyway, that's, you know, that's fine. It gives us something to go on. Wait, that's not okay. parking everyone behind the building where the loading has to be that is like a safety hazard well the loading could be on you know the left hand i i don't think the issue of the view from great road is an issue at all it will not be seen from great road because of the grade change um it what i don't want to you know we're not designing it we're just making comments no which are all valid as you um

As you talk to the potential retail tenant for there, and I don't know like what sort of research you're sharing on Littleton, but I know with, as we were discussing earlier with changes afoot at the Littleton Donnelly's, I've been hearing a lot more interest in what can we have as sort of a more local, accessible, approachable, smaller size inviting market. And that's not from people living here, but from people living here, just in Littleton. And, um, so I think that'll be, that can be really attractive because the pushback from people that I've heard of like market basket sometimes is just too, too much. And, um, how Donald has offered that kind of easy in and out smaller footprint, um, kind of more accessible price points on some things. it seems like this is definitely like right time, right place. And if it can have that same sort of like warm, inviting feeling from like the architecture on the outside and then however it's situated, that seems like it could be a real win to take all those things into account.

For sure. No, no, we really appreciate that. I think what I would just, and I don't mean to keep, you know, and we hope we're not sounding defensive, but I would just reiterate something Mary said, which was great. And that is, you know, we have done our own gymnastics And so with that, we're sort of picking our own battles sometimes too, saying, you know, if this works and you're excited still, you're not going to go away. Okay, let's make this work. So we're balancing all of those things. But we certainly, you know, we're here to listen. We're here to take some of this feedback and see what we can do. And we certainly hear you loud and clear. And we'll see what we can do. I can certainly tell you that. But we are really excited about this tenant. We're trying to get locked in here.

How does this compare in square footage to Donalyn's? I know it's like, Is that like $30,000? I actually don't know how big that domino is.

I think it's smaller.

I think the whole plaza is like $38,000, but I don't know what that store is.

This is that sort of rare, but both a strong tenant that's also smaller and it's not a market basket size. It's a really nice fit. We're excited.

Very playful inside in the interiors too.

How does it compare to like Trader Joe's as far as just square footage? It's very similar. Maybe a little bigger depending on the Trader Joe's.

Trader Joe's has a couple different footprints and that is one of the footprints. So very similar in size. I don't know to the Acton one specifically, but very similar size. Some Trader Joe's are actually larger than that too. Okay.

the top or the right-hand side for the primary entrance, so if you just showed how your entrance was.

Yeah, and how it feels more like it's actually not maybe as far back as it might seem, but no, I appreciate that. And more inviting. Yeah, and I just really wanted to be able to show you something, but maybe that was a mistake.

No, I think it was fine. It prompted the discussion so that you got some feedback. Good.

Is this such a different kind of retail that it doesn't make sense to put it at the end of the retail street that you have? Because I was just thinking, you put the hotel there and put the retail at the end with all the other stores.

Yeah, I mean, we've thought about it. It's very hard to keep within the form-based code approach with this, and they just they really need a specific type of layout and they need a parking ratio that we were just very, very pleased that we could find this little corner to put it in that that makes sort of everybody happy, but for some of the what we're hearing tonight, but I think it would feel a little bit out of place, Bartlett, honestly, right at right at the King Street.

That's a fair comment. But at first, I didn't know what what what kind of retail it was.

So we'll see the next phase of the housing, but how many units are you planning in the big white rectangle?

We're targeting probably like 140 to 175. You know, as always, we're trying to continue to advance the amount of housing, but please don't hold me to that number, but that's what we're talking about.

Sure. I'm just curious, because you had said previously that, you know, you're shifting, you know, in the overall special permit site plan, there were more housing, there's more housing planned here, but you said there will be more housing built. That's right. Sorry. Okay, what else? Do we have any project updates on construction?

No, I mean, what I would just say is we continue to advance the drawings on the village and the residential buildings. And, you know, we're pushing our team as fast as we can to continue to advance those. We're pricing out some of those drawings as they reach certain milestones.

Oh, pricing. That has to happen.

Yeah, it does. And sometimes that pricing is more than we thought, so we...

handling everything we throw at them for now at least so would you mind you know we talked about a master schedule so if you could put a couple intermediate ones like when do you expect your permitting you got you got your site permits plans now so when would be your permitting package yeah you know and and then estimated construction start date would be two nice milestones to have in there because those are the other questions that we get asked a lot yep i mean just as the board knows that it will be a moving target but we can try to give you

Informal. But for July, yeah. Exactly. It's informal. But July 9th, we'll have that as usual.

Just so that people can understand what the next milestones are and what your planning horizon is on those.

Perfect. When would you actually move the title house? You have to demolish the existing buildings. There's a stormwater pond there.

Yeah, I mean, we're going to have to look at the sequencing of all the retail villages. And then also maybe it will depend on, too, on, you know, how far.

So you do that as well because it's part of the town green, but it's also part of. That's right. What are you calling the retail? So this you're calling phase two retail. And then what is the other retail on the other side of the common? Is that phase? Phase three. Okay. I've been thinking of Phase 2. That's why I'm questioning.

Okay.

Yeah. I was just sort of thinking of the next expansion. That makes sense. You know, yeah. I mean, 1, 2, 3 might have worked, but it's sequencing. It's not the same.

So, okay. Yeah. And, you know, that's one of the things the Historical Commission asked us, and we promised to keep them in touch and rather touch with them and let them know when we were going to be moving. And, you know, that'll be a fun project to follow to see how much that can move down the street. So there'll be a lot of talk before that happens.

Okay.

oppressed.

I know we've talked about PR and community engagement and all. I think that'll be a pivotal thing to draw the community around and talk about the history of it wasn't always here. Now it's going to its next location and how that's a positive thing and everybody's... Yeah, but I think to be able to have that kind of communication from you all, it's like Here's how we're, we're literally like helping to lift up a part and set it down here, but like to lift it up and we're all coming together around it. I think that'll be, um, that's necessary communication, not just for like the feel good side of things, but to ensure people feel really fully invested in this.

Well, that reminds me, Margo, I appreciate it. One of the things we're working on. going on, and we found in other communities that's really helpful in keeping people up to speed on how the project's advancing. If for some reason they think something's slowing down, we can maybe respond to that in that, or if it's speeding up, or if there's noise, or whatever else. So that's important to us as well, and of course that would be a part of it, for sure. Maybe we can get the community to lift the house with us all at once.

Yeah, like ribbons off the bottom, I don't know.

Do a fun ribbon cutting or something.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And I think like the same way that we're asking about timeline, having beyond just a website, like analog, two dimensional, just a sign, like multiple signs on there that are like, here's what's coming next rather than coming soon in 2025. Yes.

Yeah, for sure. Well, that's a, but that's a good example too, where we want to be, you know, we want to make sure we put up there with what's really happening. And once we have even more confidence in it, then we'll be able to absolutely.

the signs will be updated with what's approved. So we will absolutely put those in because you're 100% correct.

Even if you need to keep it vague, just to keep it current is you're right, totally trust.

It's good. It's a good piece.

Okay, thank you. Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much. Well, thank you. I should have one member of the community here. No comments. Thank you, Rob. We appreciate All in favor? Aye. So we are scheduling