Planning Board - Regular Meeting

With the Litchfield Planning Board, would everyone please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Next up is roll call of members present. Jared O'Connell, chair.

Travis Tucker, vice chair. Thank you.

Russell Blanchett, member. Jesse Ngo, member.

Move the Riley. Member? John, you're up.

Oh, John would be our second rep. Filling in for Diane. OK. So next, we have public input on non Yeah, we also have John McKibbin and Jamie Carr from the NRPC. Next we have public input on non-agenda items. Does anyone have any comments on items not on our agenda for today? Seeing none, we'll close public input on any other items. Next up is interview planning board applicant Ralph Bowen. Are you present? Come up and introduce yourself. Hello. Hello. Hi. So I'll bring up your application. Would you like to tell us about yourself?

I'm Ralph Bohm. I'm on the NRPC now, and I need a reason now to be on the NRPC because I'm no longer a state rep. And that was why I was on it. So being on the planning board would be that reason for being a state rep. I've been a selectman, budget committee, school board, pretty much everything else in town over the years, and 18 years as a state rep. All right.

Okay. Does the board have any questions? Any questions?

I would say my first question was I know you had listed you're interested in being a full member. I think now we do have a full membership of the board, correct? We do.

Yes.

Yeah.

So do you have any interest in being an alternate perhaps or? As long as I, you know, just to know I get information for the NRPC. Okay.

Yeah, the only difference is you wouldn't be able to vote. Right, that's fine.

Just mainly, you know, so when I go to the NRPC, I can say this is what's happening.

Yep, that can work.

hi I'd be curious to know I'm new in town since 2020 so I'm not as familiar with all your service but thank you can you tell me a little bit about some of the interests that you had over the years that maybe YOU MENTIONED SCHOOL BOARD, YOU MENTIONED PLANNING.

I'VE BEEN IN TOWN FOR 50 YEARS NOW AND I WAS ON THE BUDGET COMMITTEE FIRST IN 1988 AND THEN I BECAME A SELECTMENT IN 1989 FOR SIX YEARS AND I WAS ON THE BUDGET COMMITTEE UNTIL uh 98 i think and i was on the school board to 2004 no to 2000 excuse me budget committed to 2004 then i was on the school board from 2004 to 2010 i was um state rep starting in 2005 and then skipped a couple so total of 18 years So I pretty much know the town inside and out, you might say.

Did you find, I know there was a lot of growth here in the 90s. I didn't live here at the time. I was out in, I was in other places. And I'd be curious, your thoughts on the growth then versus the growth as of late and what you see Litchfield becoming?

Population-wise, the town hasn't really changed that much in the last 20, 25 years. I mean, the school population has gone down drastically from 10 years ago with like 1,500, now it's 1,000, with the people aren't having kids. or families with kids aren't moving in, but that's the whole state has that issue. My only thing I'm concerned about is the developments that are going on in town, considering we don't have a septic system, so that I think could cause some problems with the developments that are going on.

okay so do you um all right so you want to give back and the planning board is the area i noticed you didn't check any other um committees off so it sounds like that's your that's your passion this time um Do you see where, I know we work pretty closely with Jay and the National Planning. Do you find that when you go to those meetings or when you had been to NRPC that there were a lot of communities in this area that kind of face the similar challenges that we do?

Yeah, I mean, the housing issue, which is, to me, my argument's always been the state house, it's, It's a supply and demand issue, and that's that's why the cost is high to supply and demand and that simple you know. And the problem that happened during covid a lot of people from other states moved in. Yeah, and because the prices to go up. Yeah, I mean you know the rent and what not you know so but I think all the building going around in like London dairy and even Nashua You know, so I think eventually those prices will come down. You know, of course they'll have to.

Well question for you as a state rep, how did you directly help which field what the state rep you spend a lot of time a state right field in Hudson what were some of the direct things you did to help which field.

Well one of the things I I was from one of the reason I'm not a state right now because I kept fighting the the state tried to take over the zoning. I mean 1925 the state told the town you own the zoning. In the last few years, they've been trying to take it over. Also, this past year, I put in a bill that passed for the Budget Committee has control of the default budget. So there's some accountability on the default. It's just not a number that's out there. So, yeah. So a lot of things like that mean for I was on education for 12 years and I was fighting for more local control and that was my big thing and puts you know. You know the towns should be involved in what they want and no can let's get less control of the state and Education and everything else pretty much the last two years. I was on public works on highways, which is why I got on the NRPC

Any other questions for the applicant?

Yeah, I'd say, as I'm sure you well know, I think we have a tough job sometimes of trying to balance the needs of now with the needs of the future and a lot of different visions that people have and a lot of competing stakeholders. So could you maybe speak a little bit to what your handle on the town and its character and priorities have been? I know you've

worked a lot with voters and especially litchfield voters maybe perhaps can you speak a little bit what is your understanding of maybe voters priorities and and you know needs for the town well i think as a lot of it is people are concerned about the growth in the town and um and the number of buildings going in and whatnot and but uh you know and the cost property taxes And mainly it's on the school side and the surrounding towns here. So that's the big issue with the property tax. And everybody keeps pushing for the state for more money, but the state doesn't have the money. Where are they going to get it from? So, I mean, some people are pushing for an income tax or a sales tax. That would be utterly ridiculous. So it would be an income tax. So the thing is, it's my argument with an income tax is the state will always find ways of spending the money. So Connecticut did that maybe 20, 30 years ago. They said, hey, we'll do an income tax and we'll lower the property tax. It didn't. The state just finds other ways to spend money like every other state has. And we're one of the per capita taxes. We're one of the lowest in the country. Alaska is the lowest because they get money. But we don't have oil wells. Thank you.

Okay. Do you have any questions for us regarding the planning board?

No, no, I think, I mean, when I was a selectman, I appointed people to the planning board and always tried, I mean, and one of the things we have in the legislature too there's too many people on the different committees that have an interest i mean or in other words like on education do you want all educators on the education committee no you want outsiders you know which i was always one so hey let's need you know Of course, same on the labor committee. You don't want all union people. I mean, you know how they're going to vote. So it's the same type of thing on these committees. You don't want all the developers, you might say, that type of thing.

Yeah, and I think that's an important point, right? Because we've emphasized this to other folks who have come before us, kind of tell them that you know we all come from different backgrounds here we you know we have a common interest which is the health and future success of the town whatever that may look like right or every citizen so but we all live together in one place so you know it's change does happen, but you have to manage that change. So as you know, the, you know, the, we only have so many places in town where we can zone. There's only so many areas that we can help to balance the tax base and the, you know,

Yeah, and I see problems coming up at the south end with that land-to-zone commercial light industrial, and no way it can be. That was done that way for the circumferential, which was supposed to be in 40 years ago. But anyway, it's been here that long. So I can see lawsuits coming to change that. residential because no way it can be because you know the whole thing for businesses industry is roads roads roads and yeah for living it's location location location they say but for businesses it's roads roads roads and there's only the one road and you know but then when I first moved here Amherst Street was just a two-lane road.

But we see that the market dictates a lot of that for us, too, right? Because that whole area has been labeled as sort of a business corridor. It hasn't been taken advantage as such.

I remember in the 90s, some company bought the Rodonis land, but they never did anything. They let Rodonis still farm it. It's owned by some company in Delaware, but what company isn't in Delaware? But I can see the north end being, since it's close to the airport, being more industrialized. Yeah.

And as we'll probably discuss later, there's changes mandated by the state that we're going to have to account for with multifamily and commercial now. which includes both the top and bottom of town. But yeah, for a commercial to work there, you'd end up having to build a good road from Derry Road to basically expand Hudson's commercial area rather than create a new one. And we'll have to look into mixed-use development over there and see if it makes sense, because unfortunately, unless we make it residential,

commercial most of them is coming whether we want it or not so we ought to figure out how we want it right we also have a very tight we have a short time window too because we have the upcoming March election that if we're if you are going to make any zoning changes that has to be at that election because the state is gearing up to do something with that land whether we whether the town takes an action on it and a sense of trying to acquire it or tracking something you know attracting somebody to come in the state's gonna still be in control and we don't have the funds to reply and resell it. That perspective so we have one but at the Apple to change the zoning down that is something that's more amenable to the community. I was going to ask Ralph if you actually reviewed the economic development committees report they did they spent almost what the year 2 years almost here. Yeah, it's 18 months to developing a strategy and what they were you know from pulling the residents and different community members and things to come up with a plan to how to successfully either inherit that land, you know, to kind of cultivate that land to be something that's beneficial to the community. And it aligns, you know, it's, I think it's inevitable that, you know, homeowners homes are going to go there. Unfortunately, it just feels like that's what's going to really happen. Because to your point, there's no septic system down there. There's no, you know, no sewer system. But there was a lot of findings, a lot of thoughts. And I'm curious, because that's something you guys take up tonight is the master plan, which kind of dovetails into the EVC's report. So I don't know if you've had an opportunity to read it.

No, not yet. I will. Is it on the town website?

It is, and it's also on the portal for tonight's meeting, too.

Okay. I'll take a look.

Yeah, and I don't know if you've been following it either, but the... They call it the check committee, the circumferential highway exploratory committee. It's chaired by Diane Plansky, who's one of our town selectmen, who's normally here, but John is taking her place this evening, filling in for her. And I'm the representative from the planning board on that committee. And if you're interested, the minutes out there, they're lengthy, but they're packed with a lot of information and discussions about that whole area and the south of town. And it'll probably give you some insight as to, we all come from a different, point of view as to what's important for the town to maintain. and in what manner and how we grow it responsibly.

And the board is best when it has a diverse membership. So I guess we should see if anyone has any, would like to comment on the applicant to the planning board? Members of the public that would wish to comment? Seeing none, does the board have any final comments before we decide to recommend or not recommend him to become an alternate for the planning board? Okay, so this would be a recommendation to the board selectmen to appoint Ralph Boehm as an alternate to the planning board.

Mr. Chair, I make a motion to recommend to the Board of Selectmen Ralph Bohm for an alternate membership on the planning board.

We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Okay, all those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstained? So motion passes 5-0-1. Okay, thank you. Okay. So yeah, the next probably the next board of selection meeting, you will probably be interviewed there. And you know the drill and then you'll get sworn in. And then we'll see you in an upcoming meeting. Thank you.

See you tomorrow.

See you tomorrow. Thanks. Thank you.

Have a good night. Thank you.

Okay, so next up on the agenda is the Pelletier Farms Fall Fest for Tax Map 9, lot 108, 226 Charlesbury Gromit Highway, expedited review of event from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m. Is the applicant present? Yes. Hello, do you want to come up and introduce yourself?

Well, my name is a Josh Pelletier owner and operator of Pelletier farms, my wife Emily. So we run the previously known as a Normanton farms farm on 3, 8, right across from the elementary school. This is my 3rd year as the owner and I'm hoping for many money many more years to come.

So we like to tell us about the the event that you're proposing.

Sure. So this is the first of its kind that we're doing. We have had some smaller kind of farm tour events that we've hosted. Um, but we, we want to become a bigger part of the community. You know, we're, um, one of the last few farms here and, um, we see Litchfield as just a wonderful place, um, as a farming community and, and, and town. Um, so we, we, This year we've really focused on, yeah, just going to more community events as representing ourselves and then also trying to get the public to come see the farm how we farm why we're not just a normal farm you know just kind of um just our our practices come see the animals and we've last two years have had the um the middle school come um over and just kind of give them a tour and teach them how we farm so uh this is this is just a getting the community together. We're offering tours there's going to be a do have a a farmer friend to see as a blues band and he offered to come play. So it's we're just trying to kind of bring everyone and everyone over here and exactly what we do there so.

Okay, thank you. So, Jay, this is just a single approval, not an acceptance situation? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So does the board have any questions for the applicant?

Can you tell me a little bit about the animal? You mentioned you have animals and stuff. Can you tell us a little bit more about the farms that we know?

Sure.

Is there animals everywhere? What's it like?

So it's a full livestock farm. We do cattle, pigs, chickens, and turkeys in the fall. And we operate what's called regenerative farming. So we rotate the animals throughout all our pastures. We have, I believe, nine pastures. on on our property and then we also lease land. We call it rid on us, but it's it's not spread across from Mike's woodworking and and we're licks is and so we're back there. But basically it's very very hands on so we work with the cattle every day moving them from pasture to pasture. The pigs are a little more hands off we kind of just put them in the woods. they're pretty out of sight that right now they're actually closer down towards the Merrimack river. Um, and they're, they're like our landscapers. They just go through clearing out the brush and, uh, And then the chickens we use as our fertilizer. So we have a brooder where we raise them when they're a day, two days old. And then when they are feathered out, we can put them in the field and we have these little chicken tractors that we push on the field daily. So everything's contained. We have a big perimeter fence. Everything... on the farm is electrified. And then we run what's called temporary lines to keep the cattle in smaller sections, so to speak. But I think the police department is familiar with us. This year has been very good in the past. Hour two might have gone by.

Animal escapees? Yes. Well, you know, there could be worse things.

I know you mentioned on here that they'll be a designated parking areas and you guys foresee kind of having volunteers and a kind of flaggers to come and direct the traffic could you maybe speak a little bit more about that and do you foresee maybe needing like a police escort to minimize any disruptions on 3 or anything like that.

I don't foresee there being any problem the farm we do have a lot of area on the farm where we're going to we've already started clearing areas. that are just normally fields that we're not using anymore that can be pretty much all in our parking. I do have, right now, three full-time employees, and I have people that I would probably reach out to see if they'd volunteer to help with the flow of traffic pulling in and out. we love the police department if if it was something that um we you know we absolutely if it became um you know i would never say no to you know their their assistance if it seemed to be like appropriate for um yeah if everything goes to plan do you know how many attendees you would um expect so it's you know we had a little um like i said open farm day in the spring and i chose What's that? It was a ribbon cutting. We just changed the name to my family name. So it was the worst day of the year I picked. It was rainy and like 45 degrees. And we still had our, you know, the community really still came and supported. We probably had 200 people still come by. And a lot of it's just, you know, coming in, run around, see the animals, and then, you know, see you later. So this, the band that we hired, they have a pretty decent following. I know the last, the gentleman who is the singer said that they just did another farm event and they attracted like 200 people. So if they brought some of their bass fans along with our community, I could see it probably being around 300 people or so that would come through the event that day.

Okay.

So from a vehicle count standpoint, that's not too bad from an hourly perspective? And are you planning on doing this maybe annually?

I would love to do it, make it an annual thing, yeah.

And if this works out and you end up doing it again, you can take all the learnings from this event to see if the traffic is a lot worse than anticipated, then you might need to hire a police detail on that day.

Sure.

I have a question. How many local vendors and businesses do you expect?

Well, we've had a couple hiccups. We did have a food truck lined up, a local one. The restaurant got shut down. They closed down recently. But right now, I think we have three that are, I'd say, soft commits. Vendors? Vendors, yeah. Good. And we're actively pursuing more. We're trying to get some more local farms to set up little stands and that sort of thing.

So it's one day for a couple of hours, three hours, four hours.

It's four hours. The band's playing for three.

Okay. And the band stops at 6 o'clock. 6 o'clock, yes. And, you know... We've always said to anyone who's come before us and done things like this that, you know, obviously you're going to talk to your neighbors, right? Because at the end of the day, you know, it's like you throw a party, you want to make sure, you know, they're good with you too. So, you know, we're a small town and we, okay, we might have rules and regulations and stuff, but at the same time, we're also neighborly. So, yeah. I would trust that you would do that. And then if it's successful and you wanna do it again, I don't know if, Jared, if you wanna explain the rules, how they'd need to come back, get it put on the site plan, and basically have it sort of seared into your site for its use in the future. You would come back effectively. But this is probably a good trial run for the first go around that's what other businesses have done in town too.

So like the woodworking place at the bottom end of town they they have a a permit from us that allows them to do it several times per year. So that's a possibility if you wish to do that in the future. Any other questions or comments from the board.

I think just my final comment would be I know some of the other events that have been approved, they've come back or they've realized that they were a little more popular than they might have foresaw. So I would just say maybe bet on that a little bit. I know I plan on being here. It sounds great. I'm sure there's a lot of people at home. I mean, I'd love to come see the farm. So, you know, maybe just in your back pocket have a. backup plan in case, you know, the traffic, the turn in and turn out. You know, if people are trying to make left-hand turns out of the property onto 3A, you know, that could become an issue. So as long as you guys kind of have a backup plan for that, and then, you know, you'll trial and error and hopefully come back in the future, and this can be a regular thing for you guys. Great.

Have you had a chance to talk with the fire or police departments?

No. Not about this event particularly. We Like I said, I'm very familiar with them, but I will make it a point to stop in and have a chat with them and see if they recommend anything.

Yeah, you might want to give them a heads up and just make sure that they know what's going on and that if you need them, that they'll be at the ready.

I think that's pretty important. So definitely do that. At least let them know in case it gets a lot more popular than you're anticipating. Because once that happens, then there could be safety problems.

Sure. Word of mouth spreads, right? I assume it'll be regardless of the weather, rain or shine, like you.

So we do have a rain date. If it does, I'm just believing it's not, but with how I picked the last one, it would be the following Saturday. We've already arranged that with the band and a couple of the vendors. We have a rain date for the following Saturday. But it would have to be, you know, like we're not going to shut down because of little sprinkles or anything like that.

So, Jake, do you have any comments on this?

No, I think it seems pretty straightforward. Obviously, you're going to try it out and see how the event goes. I think the point about kind of having a backup plan, if you get more cars than you think, is there kind of room to park them. Okay.

And if it becomes a safety problem, you might have to turn people away, unfortunately. Sure. Stay better safe than sorry. And Jay, would it make sense for us to officially, explicitly approve the rain date, too? Yes. So the date that you're proposing is October 10th, and the rain date would be one week later. So that would be? 17th. October 17th. So is that the date that you would like us to?

Yes. Great.

OK. Any other questions or comments from the board before we decide on whether or not to approve the event?

You might try Soul Sisters in Nashua if you want something interesting for a food vendor alternative. They do have a food truck. Okay. They do a lot of events. It's a little different. All right.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with The Good Place. They're in Hudson, but they did our spring event, very popular, and they just kind of shut the doors overnight without telling anyone.

It's too bad. Our event is a few weeks ago.

Oh, really? Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Any further discussion before someone makes a motion? Okay. Would someone like to make a motion to approve the event for October 10th with rain date of October 17th? So moved.

Second.

Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? Abstained? Motion passes 6-0-0. So thank you, good luck with your event. Good luck, have fun.

Good luck, guys. We'd love to have you all there. Yeah, we'll see you there. Just added it to my calendar.

Okay, next on our agenda is Corning Farm at River Edge, LLC, tax map 22, lot 14, site plan amendment to add a six-foot-wide sidewalk across the frontage.

Do you guys have clients with this on there?

Yes. It's on the portal, thank you.

But I'm a paper-pencil kind of girl. Yeah, I can take one.

If you did the printing, I'll take one, too. Thank you. I'll also take one.

Thank you.

Okay. And this is also Rick Charbonneau may give an update.

So we got to talk about sure and then so this is kind of a continuation of the conversations that we've had with both rich have no on the Morris falls going to the South and of course, I'm looking at the Morris falls going to the North. So I know Rick didn't an amendment was doing an amendment to a safe plan on the Kobe. Development and of course we were supposed to originally put hours across the the Morris Falls property, but it couldn't be located where it was proposed so we're relocating it across the frontage of our property from the Moores Falls property all the way down to the northernmost entrance of our Corning Farms at River Edge. It's going to go along the frontage of the fence. So if you physically can visually see it by just driving down looking at the space between the fence and the the highway. You'll see how much room we have and we're going to be hugging that fence pretty much most of the way down we do have a couple of obstacles that that exist today. One of them is easy to remove which is the soul treated currently there today, which is kind of a scrub yoke And then there's a there's a couple of telephone poles as you go further north that are on the same side of the street. And one of them has a guy wire that is right directly in the path of the walkway. The fortunate part is, is that I did speak with every source and that is something they're going to be moving for us. But they did mention they only have a 10 foot standoff from the pole. So I have the room. The pole is basically right on the property line. So I'm going to hug more towards that pole than this plan shows it just to get it within that 10 foot standoff. But the standoff will be very close to the edge of the sidewalk. I don't know if you have any requirements as to the proximity of a telephone pole and the standoff, but I'm kind of threading the needle. I'm going right down between the two and I'll have about a foot on either side of the sidewalk to either obstacle. So that's really the only place that really has any concerns. Everything else should fit in there nicely. We're kind of anxious to get it in and get it started fairly soon. I'll try to beat the... the elements so we can get that paid before the end you know the end of this the uh the fall but um we still have a couple of little things that we have to get out of the way and and we may have to avoid that standoff if i can't get it moved quickly they made it sound like it's not a big deal the paperwork's already in but eversource sometimes works quickly sometimes doesn't but the nice thing is is we don't have at this point in time we don't need an easement The easement was already there, so I believe we're fine with that and they're proceeding in that direction. If we do need an easement, that may push us off till next year to be able to run that through because the process for easements with Everest West is extremely slow. And by the time I get that approval, it probably will be snow on the ground. So I'm hoping that it that that at this point is not an issue some hoping it doesn't become.

Currently it's on your property, but it's going to be within an easement.

So any time any time the utility needs to put something on your property. The use to require you to give them an easement and that process requires a review a legal review of what you're giving. OK I did a blanket easement across this whole property when I when I did the the easement so I believe we're covered by that. That's why we just had a poll set if you notice right next to two Belgian now. They just came in the other day and did a poll set without any sort of changes in easement documents. I believe we're still going to fall in the that we're not going to be required to do anything and that's that's the way it's been. The work request is in and I expect that that will be the way to continue. So I don't expect will will hear anything but I I don't want to say that we're clear until it's done. But other than that like I said we're anxious to get in there we do have a little bit of work that we have to do on the most suddenly portion between our entrance and The Morris Falls property, there is going to be two service lines that will be tying into the water main that's there to service Belgian, the number two Belgian. So the water lines are already in it, number two Belgian, and they go right up to the the property line and we're just waiting for DOT to give us permission to open up the street on that end and go in and I expect that at the end of this coming week I expect that we'll have that permit to go and we'll get that in and then I'd like to start if everything's good with with the planning board I'd like to start that work at least on that portion and get that done right away because we're gonna be right there and then jump from there right on to the other one

Okay.

Yeah, it's definitely very important to relocate that guy wire. There was one guy wire that was not relocated in a timely manner on Hillcrest leading up to Firefly Way. And I, when running, it was like, wow, it's right there. That's not, it was not safe.

No.

Um, they eventually had that pole that extends out to push it out and that's what they're gonna do here as well so okay any comments or questions from the board good planning doing the blanket easement it's we've run across those issues before Do you have any comments?

No, I don't. It would just be really good to see this getting put in.

And this is definitely pretty beneficial to make it so that people don't end up walking through Belgium, because 3A is not a nice road to be a pedestrian on. So if there is a pedestrian there that wants to go past your property, they can do that without going on private land now, or at least staying in an easement.

I think it's it's going to it's going to be an addition is going to be a nice feature. I think to the to the to the neighborhood that we just built because it again it's it's a it turns it away from a makes it more of a community. Neighborhood having a sidewalk versus something that's just a highway.

So I'm I'm I'm happy to see it there and look forward to seeing it finished so especially with the gas station in Morris falls are absolutely these are destinations to walk to some.

And with Rick adding his commercial space and starting that, it looks like he's starting that now. So at least get the trees down. So it'll be good to see all that interconnectivity for the folks that live there as well.

Having a walkable community is definitely something that doesn't happen as much as would be nice in suburban areas.

I think it's a big sales feature for Litchfield, honestly. I think what we see on Albuquerque is a very popular reason for people moving here. is i like to have that interconnectivity to all of the things that we offer you know the different uh venues whether it's the tennis courts or you know the the ball fields or and our park all of those things are all accessible from that by foot and um so you know i i know that i i believe strongly that our sales and our rentals the way that they are because of that Because the community has looked you know look to make it a very comfortable and enjoyable community. So I'm just glad to be able to to do this So

So, Jay, that probably has to be accepted.

I'd make a motion to accept it.

And then, yeah. So, in that case, I'll just make sure. Donor, all the fees paid and providers notified?

Yes, I have.

Okay. And Jay, would you consider this complete? Yes. Okay. So in that case, would someone like to make a motion to accept the amendment as complete?

Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion that we accept the site plan amendment for Corning Farm at River Edge tax map 22, lot 14 as complete.

Okay, we have motion. Second. We have a second. Okay, any further discussion? All those in favor of accepting the application, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstained? Motion passes 6-0-0. Okay, so now it's accepted. Any further discussion about the amendment?

OK.

So in that case, would someone like to make a motion? Because I don't think there are any conditions associated with that.

Not the way it's presented. Yeah, not that I can think of.

It's really pretty straightforward.

Would it even just be just full approval, not even conditional approval?

Yeah, I think so, because it's just an addendum to the plan. So it becomes part of the plan that was right.

OK. In that case, would someone like to make a motion to approve the amendment?

Mr. Chair, I move that we approve the site plan amendment at Corning Farm at River's Edge, tax map 22, lot 14.

Okay, we have a motion to approve the amendment. Do we have a second? Second. We have a second by Jesse. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstain? Motion passes 6-0-0. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your time.

Looking forward to the sidewalk.

Get that in there before the snow flies.

next on the agenda is a work session regarding economic development has everyone had a chance to review that and yeah I we got the email from Kim about the state laws and yeah now we have to allow where it is feasible multifamily in all commercially zoned areas.

There are a few caveats to that. Maybe Jay could explain that.

I'm not so sure that we do. In reading the statute as it was adopted, it does. So I'll just kind of look at the RSA since I brought it up on my phone. It does note that, you know, notwithstanding any provisions of the contrary, municipalities shall allow dwelling units on commercially zoned land provided there's adequate infrastructure, et cetera. But importantly, it says, in determining whether infrastructure is adequate, the planning board may, and then I'm going to go down to the relevant section, for sewage infrastructure, require that the applicant receive permission from the operator of a public sewer within the boundary described in the statute or is negotiated between the applicant and the operator to connect to the system. The way I read this is it's suggesting that this requirement kicks in if you have public sewer. We don't have public sewer, so there is no operator of a public sewer system. So I'm not so sure this statute does apply. I will say the guidance that we got from NHMA suggests that it does apply.

The counter argument I can imagine is that if we allow multifamily at a density of four units per acre, then that's proof that we can support four units per acre of multifamily.

One could certainly make that argument. I'm just not sure that this would trigger... Because of the areas that we have allowed multifamily is either within the multifamily overlay in a commercial zone or as mixed use in the northern commercial zone. We've never allowed it in the southwestern commercial zone. So I guess I think it's questionable. Again, the NHMA guidance does not reference public sewers. But to me, the language is rather explicit. So, yeah.

We've been having these conversations a lot in the sales. We're trying to figure out how best to position clients and understand what their rights are, the rights of sellers versus what buyers are looking to do. And a number of us have gone down the road of water and sewer. Sewer is a slam dunk. If it doesn't, It might be a little risky.

Right.

Now you might want to engage a good real estate attorney or a land attorney.

And it is certainly possible that someone could come forward and argue that they can demonstrate that they have adequate sewer, therefore they meet the intent. So that is possible. I can't say that that won't happen. I just read this more narrowly to say... you need public sewer. And there's a logic to that. There's a logic to saying that if you have commercially zoned land that has access to public water and sewer, of course. That just makes sense. Especially since it seems as though the main intent of this was a focus on conversion. there was a lot of talk around that around allowing converting vacant office spaces an example into residential typically again you do tend to find that scenario in more urbanized areas so uh so i i think it's out there i think it's a question i just don't think it's as you would say i don't think it's a slam dunk um that that area is now by default allows multifamily But it is an important issue. It's definitely something we have to think about. But obviously, we also have to think just more broadly about what makes sense in that area. Maybe we decide multifamily does make sense. I had a little presentation I was going to potentially do, and I now realize I don't have PowerPoint. So I'm going to try to log in. But obviously, there's a lot to talk about when it comes to this chapter beyond that issue.

So yeah, the only way I can imagine someone, if we take this more strict interpretation, the only way I can imagine this working is if a developer wants to pay to install sewer main in the river, which is millions of dollars. Yeah, it's pretty unlikely. But at that point, if they do that, they could build at a very high density, potentially, right along Osburycroft Highway.

Which is a big.

Except that either Manchester or Nashua has no capacity left.

This would have to be done to Merrimack, probably. Because they just lost their biggest wastewater producer. They did. So there's probably plenty of capacity. It's right across the river there.

They're getting another one, but not that big. It won't come anywhere close to the demand. Nobody will, right? Unless you get another bottling plant, you're never going to get.

Just doing some quick research on what it would take to pour the sewer main under it. You would have the crossing itself, which would use horizontal directional drilling, which is a few million dollars. You need a pump station, which is another few million dollars. So it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And a lot of maintenance, because those pump stations have pumps that need to be maintained and cleaned.

I don't know if it would be the hotbed of economic activity in order for that to be an appealing option for most developers, but what do I know?

But for those of us who read the 2002 economic development chapter, that was absolutely... That was in mind. That was in mind. And at that point, there was going to be a bridge, so there was a logic that you could bring across the bridge. Sure.

You think about the history, I think it was in 2015, I think we approached the residents in a warrant to actually fund a septic system connection up into Manchester for the north end. It was shot down by the residents. They didn't want the investment. So it kind of moves it. I find it kind of, when I look at the 2002 report, compare it to what the economic development is saying, we're the same place we were back in 2002. We've done nothing to move forward. We've had, you know, what I would say normal growth from residents and population from homes, but nothing else has really changed. The dynamics of the community have not changed very much.

Well, the surveys, the surveys, when you read them too, the types of businesses people want require that type of service system. So it's, you know.

And some of them require more traffic to come through town too. Yeah.

So it's, you know.

Or at least large septic systems.

I've seen in Westford, Massachusetts, I saw a community septic leach field. It was just a gigantic, like 12 foot tall leach field with a pump station next to it. It was probably serving all the local, all local businesses and offices in that area, probably eight of them. It's very expensive and takes up a lot of space.

It takes a lot of space.

Yeah. So, yeah, would you like to make your presentation?

Well, yeah, I was just going to run through a couple of things. I mean, maybe just kind of some overall thought. I mean, this is an interesting chapter, at least to me, having been involved in economic development for many years. But, you know, obviously it's just so out of date. I think reading the 2002 is interesting. There's almost nothing relevant, right, at this point. There just isn't. It's just interesting. And of course a part of this chapter, we'll pull together a lot of statistics and just kind of base data. And just as kind of a starting point, I think one, obviously, we put a zoning scheme into place based on assumptions, as has been said, around the highway, circumferential, which isn't going to happen. So a key part of this is kind of rethinking that. Does that make sense at this point? And if not, what does? I think that's obviously got to be a key part of whatever we do we have spent a lot of time in the northern commercial zone and doesn't mean we shouldn't you continue to look at that. But the highway commercial district and obviously the Southwest and then this industrial area, you know what what if anything do we do or do we rethink it in any way and and also just kind of generally what's the driver. In working in economic development in different communities, there's different goals. In some communities, it's about job creation. And in some communities, especially more disadvantaged ones, it's about wealth creation. And some want to stimulate entrepreneurship. There's different goals and there's different focuses. I think it probably goes probably without saying that in Litchfield probably the biggest driving factor is tax base. So we're property tax dependent and so really it comes down to what are the uses that are going to add the most value. With the least impact. Right, that don't detract from the things that the community values. And that's kind of an interesting thing to look at. A lot of the things that tend to have a high value on a square footage basis are either not likely to come to Litchfield, like major retail, hotels. I mean, we're not likely to see those kinds of things, I think, as we know. What can we do? What does make sense? I just thought this might be fun. This was a presentation. Some of you guys might have seen this before that I did for the Economic Development Committee. Come on. resume slideshow. Why aren't you working from the beginning? You don't want to work. OK. Maybe I can just go through the slides. So just as a starting point, I thought this still had value because it touches on the survey touches on a few things that I thought were interesting so one just on the survey total responses to the survey 1153 is just absolutely astonishing you know when you consider how many households there are in town I mean you really it's as reliable as you can be And this is probably a little harder to see, but what attracted you to Litchfield? Again, no surprise here, rural agricultural atmosphere was by far number one, a convenient location. Number two, that makes sense. But without question, it's very obvious that it is that rural agricultural environment that people really value. And again, that's not a surprise. And then people were asked, are they in favor of economic development? And two-thirds, more than two-thirds, either agreed or strongly agreed. So that's pretty significant. There was a fair number who weren't sure. And I could understand that. What does economic development actually mean? So I could see that. But still, most people favor it. And would you like to see new businesses in Litchfield? 82% said yes. So people saw, many people obviously saw that as different from economic development. And again, that kind of makes sense when you see what is it that people want. And that's what we asked them. What do you want? Number one, a farmer's market. Number two, coffee shop, microbrewery, winery, restaurants and cafes. What really came out here is that What people were saying they wanted are what I would call, by and large, amenities, lifestyle-related things. When you kind of say, look at manufacturing, large-scale shopping, industrial parks, these things all rank really, really low. That's not what people are looking for. They want those kind of nice, experienced things. They want to go to the farm for the event. That's really what people are saying and that jumped out to me as really interesting because when we start to think about what would make sense from a zoning perspective, what do people support? It's those kinds of things and that actually might open up some opportunities. Um, so this, this, uh, presentation was created, uh, for a focus group that we had, uh, with the economic development committee. So one of the things that we did was just show images of some of the things that really stood out that people wanted to just kind of assess, is this what you're thinking? Is this what you mean? Um, you know, by and large, that's pretty obvious. Yes. That is a picture of a farmer's market. These are farmer's markets. And that was very much in keeping with what people thought. And then we went to coffee shop. Is this what you're thinking when we talk about coffee shops? And actually, the view, I can enlarge these, the sense wasn't absolutely we don't want this in Litchfield. The sense was that might be okay on 102nd. Okay, that makes sense. That wouldn't be okay on 3A, but that might be okay on 102. And it's going in 3A. That won't exactly look like that, but yeah.

Right.

And then here was another example of a Dunkin' Donuts. Is this a little more acceptable? And yeah, not surprisingly, this is actually a little more like what the design guidelines in the northern commercial zone would say. Pitched roof, a bit of an overhang, vertical expression in the windows. And so not surprisingly, people responded better to that. What about this example of a coffee shop? Could you see this on 3A? And why this jumps out is this is a conversion of an existing historic home. So that starts to suggest, gee, maybe there's opportunities for something like this on 3A, maybe even outside of the northern commercial zone. And then we started to get into some of the other uses Here is an example of a brewery in a rural environment, in a rural-looking building, probably converted from a barn. I'm not sure if this was converted from a barn or purpose-built to look like a barn. Could you see that on 3A? And not to get specific, but some people even thought, well gee, that's kind of like Wilson Farm. Is that something that a building like that could be converted into? And then something, LaBelle Winery. This is LaBelle Winery in Derry. This is LaBelle Winery in Amherst. This is a little more intensive in scale. This is purpose-built. They do have a lot of land around them. Is that something people could see? Gee, maybe that might be a little more intense than some people were thinking. This may be, sure. This might be a little bit much. Of course, it's an aerial view. And then just kind of moving on, we got into restaurants, and we talked about restaurants that fit into rural environments. So this is Piketty Place, for those who know it, in Mason. It's a destination, it's very well known, and obviously it is a historic mid-18th century house and outbuildings. Also in Mason, people may know Parker's Maple Barn, very, very similar, very rural environment, yet it is an attraction, it is a draw. Needless to say, it fits into that community. In both of these cases, both Piketty Place and Parker's Maple Barn are not at all in a commercial area. They're not in a commercial zone of any kind. And then we looked at an example that's a little bit more large scale, still kind of has that rural feel, but this is actually a multi-tenant little shopping center. Didn't get groans. And here is just another example. That's again conversion of an existing home, small coffee shop type restaurant. Then for Giggles, we just threw in this. Not surprisingly, this is a bakery, but not surprisingly, again, the same sentiment. Yes, maybe on 102, we wouldn't want to see a building like that on 3A. I thought that comment, though, was interesting because it does suggest that We can think, potentially, we can think very differently about 102 than we do on anything that happens in 3A. I mean, it makes sense, but it doesn't have to be one size fits all, pretty obviously. And then we got into, again, thinking along the lines of destination. This is more inn and restaurant, but this is Bedford Village Inn. Also, it's actually a combination of a historic 18th century building with also a more modern addition, event center built to, again, complement that style. Generally, people felt favorably about that. And this is not obvious actually, this is a bed and breakfast. But there's no actually outside appearance of that, but it is. And then we kind of went into something a little bit more larger scale. This is a small shopping center people may know in Hollis Center. It actually was built as a grocery store. There is a bakery in there now, there's a small market. And that's something a little larger scale. This is a CVS. CVS is one of the things that was talked about as something you might want to see. We also talked about this in the Northern Commercial Zone. This is about as large as you could get. This is an example from Merrimack, but this is also kind of what a CVS could look like if you followed our guidelines. And then again, we showed a more modern multi-tenant retail building. No surprise as to what the reaction was. I will add this presentation was put together before the mixed-use northern commercial zone passed, so part of this was informing that. That's why you see some of these examples. Again, no surprise on the reaction to that, but this got a much more positive reaction. This is kind of, again, a similar concept, but it is built using more traditional design. This was feeding directly into the northern commercial zone mixed use. No need to belabor those things that happened. And then we got into more commercial industrial buildings. This was an example of a more commercial industrial building looks kind of like the contractors buildings that we've seen built so that was kind of the thinking does this make sense is this something you could see um yeah i would say more jolt electric finnegan fence kind of looking and then an example of a more suburban looking industrial building Not too many places I think people could. Some of the people said they could envision this in an industrial zone like in the southern industrial zone. The challenge is, of course, is that at all realistic? I don't know. So I just thought these might be worth looking at some of these, see whether or not they stimulate any thoughts. Part of what came out of this, and it's in the report for the Economic Development Committee, which I'm sure everybody's going to read if they haven't, was a concept of could we, I think the term was used, feather in certain of these commercial uses like coffee shop, bakery, winery, brewery, along 3A in between the commercial zones. So that was really a lot of what kind of came out of that was, gee, maybe we could, whether it's some sort of a special use permit, a conditional use permit, would it allow some of those existing buildings to be converted? Does that make sense? Is that something people would be interested in? To the extent that that's something we wanted to pursue, I think realistically you'd be pursuing it as a way to provide some tax base, but really primarily it's providing amenities and attractions for people and potentially it's providing a viable reuse of some of the properties along there. Tax base wise though, it's not gonna do a lot.

How would you imagine us allowing those types of amenities along 3A?

If we went that route, I would say it would probably be a conditional use permit. And there would have to be some pretty well thought out parameters around design, control. There'd probably... you'd probably have to think about I mean, we have kind of had this conversation a little bit around the historic district. What's the boundary? You know, how far back from three ad you go?

What makes sense is a kind of a minimum property size, but it makes sense to require just driveway access from Charles Bancroft Highway, probably as the primary location restriction rather than defining a region, because we went through that exercise before.

We went through that exercise before, and it was a really, really difficult exercise. Yeah. I think it would take a fair amount of thought, and we kind of want to zoom in to, first of all, which handful of uses makes sense, and, you know, Are there, I don't think you could limit it to the conversion of existing buildings or properties, but you'd probably want some pretty strong architectural controls. And... So I wouldn't think it through right now on the spot. And for this chapter, we don't have to think it through to that detail. It's really, at this point, we're thinking concepts. What are the kinds of uses we want to see? That's just one place. I think it's the same exercise for those commercial zones. It's what do we want to see happen there? And maybe it's not any of the things it's zoned for now. Maybe it's something completely different. There's definitely a sentiment out there that those areas, I think a lot of people would prefer that they stay the way they are now, which has nothing to do with how they're zoned.

At that point, it's up to the landowners and what restrictions on zoning there are.

Well, I guess I would take that back. It does have something to do with the way it's zoned. It's zoned in a way where development is unlikely. So in that sense.

It's been that way for how many years? And nobody's done anything. Which tells me the market didn't have an appetite for it.

If it was on residential, it might be a different scenario.

Exactly one thing like the one thing that's one thing that's helping is a lot of this floodplain and floodplain is not a good place to develop in. But other than that, it's Yeah, right. Industrial and commercial is a little less economically viable right now.

Well, especially East, you have less floodplain, you know, east of Charles Bancroft highway and and still it's just nothing. And realistically, when you look at the uses that are allowed there, they're just so unlikely to ever happen. And the transitional zone is even more so. There's no realistic way of developing that. You could develop some things, if it overlap, but the uses that are allowed there are really minimal and nothing realistically would be developed in that little green band unless it's in conjunction with something else. It's a really, really tough one, but no one's ever cared because no one's ever proposed anything. So, yeah. You know, I think, again, this has already been said, this, that land is going to go on the market. And what is that going to mean? So yeah, there are all the things to think about, right? When we're talking, it's kind of a lot. It's a lot to think about.

Yeah, we have to be a little timely about some of the zoning changes potentially because we want to make sure that the developer, if a developer ends up with that land, doesn't do it in a way that the town wouldn't want. Right.

Which is why it always helps to envision what you don't want there.

Mm-hmm.

Start with that. Seriously. And that'll help guide you what it is you really want. We've had a lot of these discussions with the tech committee, and that was, you know, one of the reasons why we want to go and kind of take a site walk down, and there are different places along there, is to kind of have those pictures in our head and say, Does that make sense here?

Right.

You know? And sometimes you need to be on the ground in person and say, hmm, yeah, no, maybe or maybe not.

Right. And a lot of it is, you know, out of sight. I mean, there are things you could do there that people might not think is the most attractive thing.

Yeah.

Like that. Sure. And again, there's probably no market for that, but there are things you could do there that nobody would see.

Yeah.

You can't even see Olsen's mobile home park.

But it's the impacts that come with it as well. It's not just what you see. It's all the things that come with it. So if something like that comes with X number of people coming in and out through access points day in and day out, you have to think about that, whether you want that.

And to that point, the economic development chapter doesn't just have to talk about land use in isolation and zoning. It is also potentially about infrastructure. We certainly talked about at check, but there is the concept of a road coming off of and potentially connecting to 102 and or Cutler Road, which connects to Albuquerque. So if something like that happens, that does have the potential to open up access to that interior land. Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be viable for an industrial use, but it does open up access.

You're talking about what's referenced as industrial drive, right? Yes, yeah. The problem with that sliver cuts through a bunch of agricultural land. It does. Already in a dispute now, so. Yep, it does. Debating.

I think this kind of section is a lot more moving parts, but I think going through the process that we did of the northern commercial mixed use zone, I'm hopeful can kind of inform us on this, because I think we, as a board, did the best job that we could of trying to balance all the different needs, the needs of developers to develop their property the needs of the town to get some tax relief and some commercial activity up there. And the desire of the town to have some more third spaces and some more amenities. So obviously, I think this has a lot more to it. And I don't necessarily know that a kind of mixed use village development the same as it is in the north end will work in that southern part of town, but I'm hopeful that the same kind of process and, I don't know, getting some more word from the committees and relevant stakeholders will help us. I don't know that a big Beasley survey, because that was a tremendous undertaking, excuse me, getting tired, will be necessary, but it might be worthwhile to maybe, you know, Do an open-ended survey. Do another work session. Invite members of the public to come out and give us some of their thoughts. I always think that that was helpful to us as we were exploring it and might be helpful. There might be something we're not thinking of.

We could also do a map question. put up a map and actually allow people to drop pins and make comments, which might be interesting. I think we've talked about it before, but one thing that might not be obvious is we also drew the multifamily overlay around this area. So it was drawn to exclude these two zones, so it kind of does this. And there is this little sliver here, which is kind of interesting. Something else to think about.

So one thing I'd like to know or hear about is, has the exploratory committee regarding the circumferential highway, have they made any progress determining which uses they want to see there?

now we had started to discuss that in the summer and then um decided that we all needed to go out on a site visit and as of right now we're still trying to figure out a date when everybody can right who everyone who wants to can go out and do that and it's supposed to be in september but you know we're almost halfway through but um but it'll be within the coming weeks i'm sure yeah a sidewalk would definitely be valuable out for sure multiple say works on the same like yeah, you know because there are different sections right now to drive to come back and come over where you are 3 a.m. unless people just want to hike which you know is fine, but would take a much more of a Saturday and Sunday.

So and I think you may get some input from that from the committee is that the main charge of the committee. The main point really is what's the disposition of the property? Does the town have an interest?

Yeah. But in order to make that recommendation to the town selectmen, we feel like we need to educate ourselves more. And just so you're aware, some of the guys from the conservation committee, I apologize, their names escape me at the moment, but they were kind enough to wear GoPro. and they hiked in on the west side as well as into the east side of 3A and various points give us a lay of the land of what's actually in there. Because you can look at aerials, you can look at maps, but until you're down on the ground, you kind of get a look-see. It was, in my opinion, you know, It took the place of me having to go out and hike through the woods. I'm happy to do it, but it was great that they did that because it really gave us sort of the bird's eye view.

They were fighting mosquitoes that we didn't have to face.

Yeah, right? We weren't, yeah. At least they got eaten alive. I felt so bad.

I know. They also, though, walked here, and there is an unpaved road that goes through here, which was interesting.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. So... So we're not as far along as you might like at this point, but we've identified the access points. If you control access, you kind of You control everything, right? So you could choke off what you didn't want somebody to develop or what would be perceived as valuable. So there's two ways of looking at this. You can either, you know, if you give up your rights to something because maybe you can't afford it or something, but you have the knowledge that somebody else might be given the right to do something with it that you might not like. It's that delicate balance of okay, You know, tomorrow I wake up and all of a sudden something down there looks very different. Am I going to be upset? You kind of have to go through that envisioning in your head because if you don't, you know, you're going to look back and go, oh, God, we could have done this, that, or the other thing. We could have really thought this through more.

Like an asphalt plant.

Yes. Yes, because you all know that there was an asphalt plant to be built down. Backing right up to that nice little neighborhood that's right over the line in Hudson.

We weren't happy.

Yeah, well, that's their problem, right? No, I'm kidding.

I know there was also one in Nashville that got so much negative publicity. So much.

Wasn't that right in Lake Street or something like that?

It was East Hollis. Oh, East Hollis. Okay, yeah.

Nobody ever wants these things in their backyard. It just is what it is.

It's interesting to think that those types of uses would be helpful for certain local businesses, like probably continental paving. Right. And they have big cylinders of asphalt. from their plant that they paid to bring in a gas line to keep hot, because that's how much heating that needed. Yeah. That's a lot to think about. Yes.

Jay, I know the results from the Economic Development Committee really informed the process for the North End. With what you found, and particularly some of those suggestions that we're fine with this on 102 and not on 3A, and thinking about the kind of south side, what do you think that survey and the results from it might be able to help us with? I know we're kind of on a time crunch. Not entirely, but we don't want to delay this and push it down the road until we are sorry for it. So how do you think we best structure this conversation and try and gauge what the public wants without that kind of same immediacy, because it was kind of as soon as the Economic Development Committee finished that, we got the report from Dr. Keenan, we kind of immediately went to work.

Right. And we also had a couple things happening simultaneously. I mean, we were thinking about doing something up there anyway, and you may recall we had the, oh, where's my brain, the Barron's was going to put a warehouse up there, and That triggered thinking because we didn't allow that use. They got a variance. So there was a lot of thinking up there. Honestly, I don't think... there was nearly as much thinking specifically about this southern part of town. So there's, I think, less that informs that area. It was the northern area and then that kind of middle stretch of 3A that really got a lot of attention. There was just less here. We didn't have an issue of the land sale. at that time. It just was starting. So I think there was what the Economic Development Committee report does talk about is the need to address that area, but I don't know that there's something that we could say specifically that came out of the outreach and the survey. So yeah, I think that's what needs to be done. That's really, not to say, I mean, it's the whole town, right? It's economic development, it's broader things. We heard other comments too in that process. We had one gentleman come and say our home occupation restrictions are too restrictive, that we're not allowing enough flexibility and I should be able to have a sign, not have to come for approval. There are other things we can look at as a part of this, too. It's not just that southern area. But I think to your point, there's probably some targeted outreach that we want to do around it. Probably in a thoughtful way, though, that gives people something to react to. And, yeah, I think it's going to be some taking a look and looking at some information and some data. There was also some information in, you know, around tax values that was in the report. And that's kind of important to look at, too, is when we think about improving the tax base, what, you know, where are those opportunities? Where are there realistically those opportunities to do that? And that's worth a thought. And I know Kim also has, I mean, we do too, access to these sessions. It is pretty readily done.

John I don't know if you have any input on it with the select board and kind of exploratory committees or task forces if if if you might have any input or thoughts or this might be something that I mean as far as being a look at Jeff has put it together to try to figure out the exploratory part at least part of those self and part of the land as far as getting more feedback from the community I think you're going to have to do that anyway, so I I mean even the economic wrapped up last year. We have you know if you look at the list is about to toss out plan would have a bunch of tasks to look at ordinances to change, you know zoning that I don't think you guys have tackled any of that stuff yet. But I I think the progression where you're going for the best way to do it. This is not a quick answer to what we do. And I think that the bigger chance would you all mention is that The things we're talking about doing ain't really going to change the tax base. That's the challenge. And without impacting, right? If we do residential, that's going to impact services. And so there's that give and take. And unless we somehow get a windfall of money, they want to put a septic system in that takes it up the Merrimack or Nashua. You know, I don't know. But... I say stay tuned for the checks. I think that's the next real big curl for the board to figure out what we're going to do next. So we have to be prepared to adapt for whatever zoning you guys recommend for down that southern side because that's going to change the outlook too. And even maybe even change what the state does with the land. That's the other side of the problem.

And maybe one way to even think about it is if we wiped away those zoning districts that are there now, What would we want to see there? What would we think would make sense if those districts didn't exist today?

I say scrap that whole salt then and kind of figure out what you think it should be. I think so too.

So I guess more to come. I'll start gathering some data and information, kind of putting it up there. And I think it's going to take some thinking.

Answer that reach from the chapter of our master plan perspective. Is there any, any actionable items at this stage?

Yeah, I think it's we're really kind of at the beginning of this chapter. I mean, some of the other ones are they're easier to approach, like natural resources are easier to approach in a way because it's a whole lot of gathering data and mapping and yeah, there's things that you think about and you talk about, but here it's almost, we have this almost blank slate where it's really up to us. Yeah, there's gonna be some information that we'll be gathering to inform it, but, so that kind of makes it harder to frame in a way. It's also, really interesting and then at some point soon we should think about is there anything that we want to try to accomplish it's it might be too soon but is there anything we we might want to accomplish zoning wise for March what do you think we should consider for March I mean, these kind of bigger ticket items, I mean, going back to the Northern Commercial Zone, it was at least, it was probably two years. It was two cycles before we got there. And I don't see us making zoning recommendations of this magnitude in the time period that we have. It is, I'll have to go back to kind of my little tickler file on, so I think the zoning things we're talking about this year are probably small.

Yeah. How much work do you think it would be to pursue conditional use amenities on 3A in the current residential areas?

I still think that's probably too much to try to do for this March, but that's more doable because I think We already have a good sense of what the uses are that people would be interested in.

Yeah, we don't need any more outreach for that.

Right, and I also think the look and feel is... pretty clear people want to keep that rural historic character. So putting kind of design guidelines around that and thinking about criteria, that's much more doable in the short term. That's probably something I could come up with some thoughts on relatively quickly to at least start bouncing off of.

Does the board have any thoughts?

I just think I'm not, I think that's a great point. I think it's something we should think about in the future, but I'm not necessarily sure that I mean, obviously, I don't know that either of those things we'd be able to confidently get on the warrant for March, but I don't know that that's where we should be focusing our energy because I'm not so certain that there's as much demand, time-sensitive demand from a land use planning perspective for us to kind of make the change for allowing a coffee shop or a maple hut or whatnot on 3A as there is for us to really kind of put our minds together and see what people want to see on the blank slate that is staring back at us right now.

Yeah, I think it's gonna take a while and some thought and maybe what we focus on, there are a few smaller, I call them housekeeping type of zoning changes that we could think about for this year. And then maybe focus energies on these bigger thoughts with the idea of maybe it's March 28 where we really come forward with something that's thoughtful.

And would it make sense for us to figure out what we want to do next year and create some surveys for the upcoming election?

That's a good idea. We got a really, really great response. using that as the forum. So that's a very good idea. I think it'd make a whole lot of sense to do that.

It's also a resource fair being planned again for I think the 23rd of January. Oh, perfect. That's another good opportunity. So that may be an old place to have a table and kind of talk about what's going on.

Yeah, we can set up an engaged site and we can have a QR code also if people go to visit. Yeah, I think it's a really good idea. take our time and get some good because yeah i think it's a lot to think about and that'll also give an opportunity you know for the check to have wrapped up their work and provide their input which is going to be really key

Yeah, there's a lot that they could adopt for sure. Absolutely. Some of the questions we could potentially put on the survey include, do you want to see menus like restaurants on 3A if they have guidelines for aesthetics? And what do you want to see on the bottom end of town?

Right. And if we steer people to online, we can actually show images of what we need. which can be really helpful for people to visualize what we're talking about.

Yeah, because the last survey, that was mainly a QR code type thing that just sent them to a link.

I think we had some paper copies also, but yeah, it was.

And Paper Poppy can have images if you're willing to pay a little extra.

Right, because people could do it. There was also a real effort for that survey to keep it relatively brief. So thinking that people on the spot would do it on the spot, which helped. It helped generate that level because it wasn't so long that you couldn't kind of complete it right there, which is, of course, something else to think about. For imagery, we'd want to be able to steer them with a QR code. And it could be that there's more than one survey that we do, depending on what it is we want to talk about.

And so how long do we have until then? Yeah, we won't be able to do anything with that

No, they won't let us. They won't? I don't think so. Is that the polls? It was deliberative session at town meeting, I think, where they said.

It would have to be where the local stuff is in March. March, yeah. Yeah, March.

It would be March. Or again, the resource fair in January, that's another opportunity. So there's definitely opportunities to get input. It also gives us time to think. You know, as we start going through it, what are our questions?

Yeah. OK. Is there anything else we should discuss during this work session? Yeah, we're just starting this, so a lot to think about.

And zoning-wise, I'll come up with a checklist of some of the things. I think that there are a couple of things out of that last statutory changes that we're going to have to do. They're relatively minor, but we will.

And are there any things that we need to keep in mind regarding changes in state law?

Yeah, that's what I meant. From this last session, there are some things. They're not huge, but there are some things that we need to do.

OK. Sounds good. So any final discussions regarding the work session? OK. So next up is committee reports. So do we have any committee reports? I guess I can go.

Capital Improvements Planning Committee is kind of deep in the process as we're just getting started. At the September 9th meeting, we heard from Conservation and Fire and Police. They ranked their priorities, walked us through. So for those that have been following the process or that are interested in it, and kind of what the capital projects are that are being put forward for consideration and to think about, I would definitely encourage you to continue following that. Last evening, we voted to finally update the bylaws for the CIP. And we heard from a school superintendent on the school priorities. And so that was very illuminating as well. And I believe our next meeting is October 5th. And in October, we'll kind of start moving towards that process of putting it in the matrix and thinking about how we rank those priorities and where they go on the plan. From there, that all informs the Budget Committee and Selectmen's process. I think we're starting to really get in the thick of it. We've heard a lot of great feedback and great information from all the wonderful heads of the departments in town. I'm hopeful that we'll continue to be able to do good work.

Okay. Thank you. John, do you have anything from the Board of Selectmen?

I do not for tonight.

Okay. Any other committee reports? Okay. Next up is any other business? Anything other than the minutes? Okay. So next up is the minutes from September 1st. Has everyone had a chance to review those? I didn't see any of them. um so last meeting we adopted the amended natural resources section of the master plan and based for that we just had to fix a few typos that were non substantive changes. Right. I think the wording of the last line about that can kind of makes you think it is a substantive change. So we might want to reword that a little bit. It's Mr. McCarr agreed to revise the applicable language and the figure 10 description, the revised chapter will be will incorporate these changes for further review.

Oh, yeah. I'd strike that for further review.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good catch.

Yeah, just put a period after changes.

Yep. Sounds good to me. Does anyone notice any other amendments that we should make to the minutes? I think it, other than that, looked good to me. OK. In which case, would someone like to make a motion to approve the amended September 1, 2026 minutes?

So moved.

OK, we have a motion. Do we have a second?

Second.

OK, we have a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor of approving the amended minutes, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstained? Abstained. Motion passes 5-0-1. I think that is it. Anything else for this evening? OK. Would someone like to make a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Motion to adjourn. Do we have a second? Second. Second. Any for this discussion? All those in favor of adjourning, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, abstain. Motion passes 6-0-0. So thank you for watching the meeting. Our next meeting will be on the first Tuesday of...