Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I would like to welcome everyone to the Town of Lexington Council Meeting. The Council Meeting is being held at Town Hall on Tuesday evening, September the 8th, 2026, and is being broadcast live on the Town's YouTube channel. I'm Hazel Livingston, the Mayor of the Town of Lexington, and I'd like to introduce my fellow Councilmembers. To my left is Councilmember Ron Williams.

Good evening.

To his left is Councilmember Todd Lyle.

Good evening.

To his left is Councilmember Jenny Michaels. Good evening. To my right is Mayor Pro Tem Todd Carnes, who is somewhere. And to his right is Councilmember Gavin Smith.

Good evening.

To his right is Councilmember Will Allen.

Good evening.

And our invocation tonight will be led by Councilmember Will Allen.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Let's pray, y'all. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for this summer that we've had. Thank you for all that you've done, all that you're doing, and all that you're going to do. Please guide our footsteps today, Lord. Help us make the best decisions we can for our neighborhood, for our friends and our family that live here in this wonderful town that we call home. Please just give us Holy Spirit guidance with the decisions that we make, Lord. We love you, we praise you, we bless you, and we pray all this in Jesus' holy name. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Will. Our pledge tonight will be led by retired U.S. Marine Corps Staff Sergeant Kevin Richardson.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and

I will now call the council meeting to order. Are there any deletions from tonight's agenda? Hearing none, I'm moving into the executive session report and ratification. Council met in executive session prior to this meeting. Matters discussed in executive session as permitted by SC code 30-4-70A. Reviewing a pending litigation. One personnel item. Contractual item related to the town prosecutor. legal advice regarding council roles and responsibility, legal advice regarding town policies and procedures, and discussion of potential property acquisition. No vote was taken. Do I hear a motion to ratify this report?

So moved.

Councilman Williams makes the motion. Do I hear a second?

Second.

Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor, raise your right hand. And there is six and all opposed. Well, Gavin, I didn't see you raise your hand. Did you raise your hand?

I need to abstain. I was not present.

For all of it?

Okay.

Okay. And then did you, were you going to make a motion to add one of these items?

Are we on that portion of the meeting?

If he wanted to add, if somebody wants to add one of the items to be voted on tonight, do they need to do it now? And we can do it at the end of the...

Additions, deletions? If we're adding an item to be voted on tonight, it will not qualify to be voted on tonight because it wasn't given 24 hours notice.

Even if it was on the executive session? Yes, ma'am.

If you're, you would need to, if you want to move it to the, you need to take action now when you came out of executive session before you go into the open session because it is an executive session item.

So we should have backed it up for the, when we were voting on them and clarified it?

I think you just ratified what was in there. I think now you can, if somebody wanted to make a motion to add one of the items that you discussed, To be voted on at the next meeting you could to put on another agenda. You either have to act on the item now for decision because you came out of executive session or if you add it to an agenda item to the regular agenda to be voted on now, it would be better to do it now. When you're considering the item now, it would be better to go ahead and take a motion to add it to the next agenda, the next meeting's agenda to vote on, to discuss.

Are you following that, Gavin?

Yes. Mr. Epperson, I don't believe we could take a vote on an item now from executive session because we just voted to ratify a report that said no actions were taken. And I don't think now we could amend the agenda to add an item.

You were ratifying that you took no action in executive session.

correct, but now you be taking action outside when you come out of executive session right on one of the items that was listed that you discussed right and I understand we cannot do that but we could add the item to the agenda to discuss the item we just could not take an action correct. Then madam mayor, I move that we add an item to the agenda. Discussion only yeah for discussion on the day and that would be town policies and procedures.

Councilman Smith made a motion. Do I hear a second?

I'll second it for discussion.

Councilman Lyle seconds it. Is there any discussion on adding this item? Hearing none, we'll be adding that. It'll be at the end as number eight. Huh? Number eight. Will you write it up for me and bring it to me? Okay. All those in favor of adding that for number 8, raise your right hand. And it is unanimous. Okay. Approval of the minutes included in the meeting packet for approval are the minutes from council meetings held on August the 3rd and August the 17th. Are there any deletions, corrections, or motions to approve the minutes?

Motion to approve.

Councilman Lyle makes a motion to approve. Do I hear a second?

Second.

Councilman Michaels seconds it. And is there any discussion on it? Is everybody good with them? Hearing none, all those in favor, raise your right hand. And it is unanimous. Now I'll give you an update on our vision plan. The town has extended the deadline for the vision plan online survey, and we still want to hear from you. The new vision plan will set long-term goals for what the town will look like in the future. the projects and initiatives that have become important, parts of our community were identified through the previous vision plan. These projects include the Old Mill Trail, Virginia Hilton Park renovations, Gibson Pond Park improvements, strategic traffic initiatives, and public art, just to name a few. We want as much feedback as possible from the community about priorities and opportunities. Go to lexsc.gov to complete the survey. It will remain open through September the 15th. At this time, we'll have a traffic update from Mayor Pro Tem Carnes.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. A lane shift can be expected in the eastbound lane on East Main Street from Fort Street to Martell Drive. On September 10th, 12th, and 19th, beginning at 9 a.m. and ending at 3 each day, Dominion Energy's contractor will be trimming limbs. Under the distribution lines, next traffic committee meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday, September 9th at 8 a.m. at Town Hall and 3rd Floor Conference Room. Finally, stakeholders for the Greenway and Trails Plan will hold their final meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, September 9th at 10 a.m. at Town Hall and 3rd Floor Conference Room. Please exercise caution when traveling in construction areas and school zones, and we encourage you to follow the Town of Lexington social media outlets. For traffic alerts and updates, please call 803-358-7273 to report any traffic signal issues, unsafe roadway conditions, or a pothole that needs immediate repair.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Moving on to new business, our first item is from Council Member Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. A ripple fiber LLC is being acquired as part of a transaction that will result in frontier communications of the Carolinas LLC. A Verizon company acquiring and operating ripple fibers broadband network in Lexington. The town has received a request for its consent to assign the existing broadband franchise agreement from ripple fiber to frontier. the franchise agreement and its existing obligations would remain in effect following the assignment a copy of the request was attached to our agenda packet as such madam mayor i moved to consider consent to the assignment and authorized the town administrator to execute the consent on behalf of the town council member smith makes a motion do i hear a second second councilman williams second is there any discussion on this

Hearing none, all those in favor, raise your right hand. And it is unanimous. Next up is the Pilgrim Point Streetlight Request. Council Member Allen.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Historically, the town has paid a portion of the streetlight bill for Pilgrim Point residents. In accordance with the town's residential streetlight ordinance, the Pilgrim Point Homeowners Association has requested that the town again pay a pro rata share of their streetlight bill. A copy of their letter is attached. There are 48 lots in Pilgrim Point, and the town ordinance states that the town would be responsible for one streetlight per six lots, which equals eight lights. The total requested bill is $2,671.76. Madam Mayor, I move to consider payment of the pro rata share of the Pilgrim Point Streetlight Bill.

Council Member Allen makes the motion. Do I hear a second?

Second.

Mayor Pro Tem. Second, is there any discussion on this?

Madam Mayor.

Yes, sir.

For the record, I'm not sure the appropriate staff member, so I'll ask our administrator and she could assign accordingly. Could you just clarify for the record what type of lights are in Pilgrim Point?

I don't know that. Let me ask Laura or Kathy. Kathy are you aware of the type of lights?

I am not aware of the type of lights. They charge, they cost more than our standard light that we allocate but we're only paying them out of the

Thank you Kathy and to be clear, I have no issue with with this. I just wanted to state for the record that the town ordinance requires a standard light and it appears that that program point has a higher end light so they are receiving reimbursement for the rate at which the standard light would be yes, it's OK so that is correct. OK, thank you.

Any other discussion is just briefly, madam mayor. I'd like to point out that hopefully we'll have something more global regarding the whole streetlight issue. But as I mentioned last month, I would not be in favor of retroactively doing that. So I'd be happy to continue doing this forward for now. But hopefully the plan would be that the taxpayers don't pay for the streetlights of neighborhoods.

Anyone else? Hearing no other comments, all those in favor of approving this, raise your right hand. And it is unanimous. Third item is approval of cross-connection control program. Mayor Pro Tem Carnes.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. A cross connection control program helps protect the town's public drinking water system by preventing contaminants from entering the water supply through backflow. Adoption of the program is necessary to comply with federal and state drinking water regulations, South Carolina Department of Environmental Services requirements, and applicable plumbing codes. The proposed cross connection control program, as discussed at previous meetings and included in the agenda packet, establishes the town's requirements and procedures for protecting the public water system. Madam Mayor, I ask for council approval and adoption of the cross connection control program.

Mayor Pro Tem makes a motion. Do I hear a second?

I'll second.

Councilman Williams seconds it. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor, raise your right hand. And it's unanimous. Item number four is first reading to update town ordinance governing the cross-connection control program. Council Member Lyle.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. So as far as the background goes, we just voted to update that cross-connection control program. So in part of that, we're going to have to do revisions to the code for the town ordinances necessary to make sure that it's consistent with that newly adopted program. We have proposed amendments to remove some obsolete language, eliminate references to agencies that are no longer in existence, and to update the procedural requirements so that they are consistent with and align with the revised program that we just mentioned. So this will specifically revise sections 50.12. and 151.06.03. Copies of those existing and those new proposed changes are included in the packet, and I would make a motion for first reading or approval of these ordinance updates.

Council Member Lyle makes the motion to approve. Do I hear a second? Second. Council Member Michaels seconds it. Is there any discussion? All those in favor, raise your right hand. and it's unanimous. Item number 5 is first reading of annexation of Lexington County text map 004300-04-026 in the 200 block of Georgia Lane Councilmember Michaels.

Thank you, Mayor. Moore Group Incorporated owns approximately 2.8 acres on the corner of Georgia Lane and Cherokee Trail and has petitioned to annex the property. Properties in the town near this one are zoned protected residential and high density residential. Georgia Lane and Cherokee Trail are classified as local roads. The property is shown on the future land map used as suburban residential area. The Comprehensive Land Use Plan describes this area as low density, single family detached housing on large lots. For the proposed project to be compliant with the zoning ordinance, the property should be zoned protected residential zoning in Georgia Lane and Cherokee Trail should be classified as local roads. At our August meeting, Planning Commission recommended approval of the annexation and with the requested protected residential zoning and local road classifications. So I make a motion for first reading approval.

Council Member Michaels makes the motion. Do I hear a second?

Second.

Mayor Pro Tem seconds it. Is there any discussion on this one? Hearing none, all those in favor raise your right hand. And it's unanimous. Item number six is first reading of a request to rezone Lexington County tax map in the 500 block of Corley Mill Road. Council Member Williams.

Madam Mayor.

Yes, sir.

Before we do this item, I need to recuse myself from this item. My son-in-law is a general contractor and he works with the applicant.

Anyone else need to recuse themselves?

Yes, Madam Mayor, I'm also going to recuse myself. I have represented the applicant several times.

Okay. So we have two recused before we start. Now we're ready for you.

All right. The Beer Fruit Collective LLC has submitted a request to rezone approximately 7.4 acres located in the 500 block of Corley Mill Road. Identified as Lexington County Tax Map number 003500-03-167. They're requesting to go from office commercial to limited commercial with a planned unit development overlay. The property is proposed to be developed as an office park in phases. The initial phase includes a 4,600-square-foot office building and a 4,600-square-foot private golf simulator. Adjacent properties are zoned PR, protected residential, office commercial, and limited commercial. Corley Mill Road is classified as a collector road. The property is shown on the future land use map as suburban residential area and conservation and open space area. The original planned unit development ordinance is included for reference. At its August meeting, Planning Commission recommended approval of the zoning request with the condition that the scenic corridor overlay requirements remain applicable to the property. Based on the recommendation of the Planning Commission, I will make a motion for first reading approval.

Councilman Williams makes the motion. Do I hear a second? Second.

I have a question you need to second and then you can second.

You second it. Councilman Michael seconds it. So now.

I will take discussion in questions, so the only question I have is there's from what I understand, there's no member of the Council that has any ownership and bare feet free collective LLC. I don't think we do. Just for confirmation.

Yes, sir. If you can come up to the mic since she has some questions for you to answer.

I'm Blake Bouchette, the sole member of Bear Fruit Collective. Okay. That was just what I wanted confirmation of. Yes, ma'am. Just me.

Okay.

And you did identify yourself?

Yes, ma'am. I'm Blake Bouchette of 153 Waterstone Drive.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anybody else have any other questions for Blake while he is up here?

Madam mayor, yes, Blake quick question for you. My understanding in reading the application and attending the planning Commission meeting why does the parcel need rezoning for the entirety of it was at the 8.9 3 acres are correct 7 7.4.

Yeah, I'm sorry only reason is and what we're doing is primarily office space so that is kind of the sole focus of the project. what we're trying to do is a little bit more of what I would call modern office space. We want to offer a few more amenities. So one of those amenities is a private golf simulator for the tenants to be able to light gym equipment and hit golf balls into a golf simulator. So that classification, um, as we discussed in our design review meetings with the town staff, requires group assembly classification. So that group assembly is what is driving the request from office commercial to limited commercial. That's the sole reason.

Madam mayor yes, this may be a question maybe for for Jessica or or maybe you like could answer it. Why could not just the parcel but the piece of the parcel that is being used for the golf simulator which is it seems driving the need for the reason why could why couldn't it be limited to to just that.

I don't have an answer for you and I haven't explored that option.

Sorry to put you on the spot, Jessica.

That would be considered spot zoning. That's highly frowned upon. It just is difficult to interpret. Then you have different buffers and setbacks for that. You don't want to spot zone based off of one particular use.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?

No, ma'am. Thank you, Blake. Thank you.

So I understand that this is just for the rezoning, correct? With the scenic overlay and everything staying in place. The tree survey and everything being in place in this.

This was just for rezoning from office commercial with the pot overlay to limited commercial with the put overlay.

Anybody have any other questions? Or any other comments?

Yes, I'm sorry. We did receive an email today from a citizen and she asked that her information be included for the record. Her name is Angie and I'm probably going to miss the last name up that I just moved that we have that included for the record.

And I do want to make it clear to that the person that asked for us to read this and if I understand there's 2 zonings for the county is already in I D. That is correct ideas very you can do anything pretty much.

ID is called intensive development and then RD is restrictive development. There are some uses that are allowed in ID that are not allowed in restrictive development. I'm going to be honest, I'm not well versed in what those are, but I will say that intensive development has, they're not as restrictive setbacks and buffers in the intensive development zoning versus the restricted development zoning.

Especially as not as what we are with the This zoning, correct? Correct. This zoning would be a lot more limited.

Yes, ma'am. It's going to be different than, say, general commercial or industrial. It will have increased setbacks versus general commercial or industrial. Okay.

Anything else? Anyone else? All those in favor of rezoning this property, please raise your right hand. And it is four, all opposed is one and two abstained. So item number seven, Council Member Williams, you also have that one that goes along with this.

Madam Mayor.

Yes.

I will be abstaining from this item for the same purposes. Met a mayor as well. Okay.

Okay, the Barefoot Collective LLC is requesting approval to amend the Coley Mill Preserve Plan Unit Development District Descriptive Statement. The applicant is requesting two amendments. Amendment number one is Section B to redesignate the parcel identified as Lexington County Tax Map 003500-03-167 from Office Commercial to Limited Commercial. Item two is to amend section F to provide the scenic corridor provisions of the town of Lexington. Code of ordinances do not apply to the subject parcel. The applicant's statement of intent and justification is included in the agenda packet. At the August meeting, planning commission recommended for approval of amendment one and denial of amendment two. So I will make the same recommendation that the planning commission made as first reading approval.

Councilman Williams makes this motion, and he made the motion based on the Planning Commission's recommendation. Do I hear a second? Second. Councilman Michaels seconds it. Is there any discussion on this one?

Madam Mayor?

Yes.

Commissioner Feitz here, would you mind speaking to... why y'all did not want to approve item two so that the public would understand. Catching you off guard, sorry. Didn't think about this ahead of time, but y'all decided to turn item two down, which I'm fine with. Just didn't know. Continue to trace.

The protection of the road, the Quilling Mill Road, which is protected in the county and our part of the town part of it too. So it was to maintain it and not to remove the scenic corridor protection.

I'm glad she's here so we could get a commissioner on record for that. And then the other question I have is, Jessica, I see the retention pond on this parcel is in the back. I'm assuming you're going to require them to use that same parcel as they develop the entire property? Same retention pond.

The retention pond for?

On this little small map.

Sorry, let me grab that other file.

I can barely read it, but that little bitty print right there you put on there.

That is a preliminary plan. That is where their engineer is showing it right now just for preliminary purposes. That will go through plan review, and we will look at it at that time. But this will be subject to architectural appearance as well.

Okay. It would be great if we could get them to agree to just do one instead of having multiple because those are the things we have to maintain later. So we'd love to get it to flow into one if we could possibly.

Okay. Madam Mayor. Yes.

Because it's a phase project, I'm assuming the one on the rear is in anticipation of whatever is going to be added in phase 2. So we can look at that. I think Blake's hearing those comments and we can take that into consideration. Awesome, thank you.

So Jessica, on the tree and the landscape, this part, if they were cut down, would they have to put them back or put a certain type of landscaping back?

The way that the scenic corridor buffer ordinance is written is that they need to provide a tree removal plan, a clearing plan of what trees will be taken out. It does state in the ordinance that, of course, you want to remove the undesirable brush, exotic species, things of that nature, but there is a Trophy tree classification that are trees of certain diameter breast height that needs to be preserved and if they are removed or removing that debris ends up creating or dead trees. If you have to remove dead trees creates a gap. There is a schedule formula for how to replant and that would be part of the landscape.

So they shouldn't technically take him out, but if something does get taken out, it has to be replaced, correct? OK. Thanks.

Any other discussion on this? Trying to decide if I want to say something. I will say that I normally vote with the recommendation of the Planning Commission. It's very rarely that I vote against their recommendation. They're there to give us this advice and to advise us in what we need to do. Now, I might have voted against them if they had removed the scenic corridor, but most of the time, you know, they know it's important what's going on. And this is part of our PUD. that the money from the PUD is being used for the 378. TIF district. The TIF district for that, and to pay for that interchange improvements and fix. So it is a movement there, but with that being said, all those in favor, raise your right hand. And it is four, all those opposed, one and two abstained. so now we will move into item number eight which is discussion of town policies and procedures opening for discussion only um i'm gonna kick this off and say that we have asked our town staff to come back with us in october to our work session with a list of all of our ordinances and policies of what we have, what they're working on that we need to get approved, and what is no longer any good. And so they've got some different stuff that they need to do to bring back so we can have everything updated and have better policies and procedures in place for all of us moving forward. And that will be on the work session. in october because we wanted to give them enough time to pull everything together and i know that just for instance our assistant administrator is working on a couple of policies that he's almost finished with and he can bring those forward for us to approve then or to see and discuss and then hopefully approve in november but there's some other discussion that needs to go on but there we will not be voting on anything tonight i turn it over to you

Sure. Thanks, Madam Mayor. So I guess to kick it off on, let's see, on Thursday, August 27th, I emailed the town administrator, Ms. Cleeton, who's here with us. and asked for a roster of our student ambassadors here in town just for their name and contact information. I see many of those with you here in the audience. You likely have received a handwritten letter from me. I can see six or seven of you that I know I've written a handwritten letter, and And I wanted to write each of our student ambassadors a handwritten letter and just say congratulations on being a student ambassador here at the town. And if I can ever be a resource for you as a member of council and also as a professor, someone I had the pleasure of giving a former ambassador a welcome tour to the business school a few weeks ago. And it was such a great experience. And I built a great relationship with her and I've been able to help her get adjusted to campus. So I received a response back that stated that unfortunately we can't provide the addresses of the youth ambassadors as we don't release anyone's personal information. to which I responded with a somewhat lengthy response and essentially asked for reconsideration and then I was also responded to again a few days later and said that the town's practice is to not disclose individuals residential addresses including for internal purposes and that we apply that practice consistently. um as we discussed um with our attorney our attorney has um advised that um and i don't mean to speak for you mr epperson but and please correct me if i characterize this in any in any wrong manner but the the attorney feels that that information should not be released to me or to counsel in general and Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you felt as though none of that personal information should be released, but particularly here because some of the individuals may be minors. We don't actually have their date of birth, so we don't know that they're minors. But I challenged and asked for a town policy or procedure that stated that, by which no policy or procedure exists. And in fact, I produced a record And for the record, produced record with a 10-minute search of my email, 11 ATACS applicants records containing names, addresses, telephone numbers, and email addresses that have been emailed to me this year. One BZA roster, I see Mr. Fite sitting back there. I've got his home address from that roster that was provided to me a few weeks ago. Planning commission roster where I have all of their home addresses and contact information, email, phone number. We receive monthly reports of business licenses where I receive residential home addresses for those in their homes. Two boarding Commission applications containing applicants personal information. The list goes on and on. So what I'm trying to exhibit here is I do not feel like the policy is being or the non policy because there is no policy, but the. Denial of this information to me is being applied fairly. I certainly understand and respect. We should absolutely respect the confidential information of minors and really all of our applicants. I certainly respect that, but respectfully, I'm acting in what I believe to be my. official duties as a member of council. And I see it as my responsibility to try to build relationships with all members of our boards and committees, including our student ambassadors here. That's a program that I worked with the mayor hand in hand to help stand up. It's important to me. I'm proud of that. And I would simply like to just send them a handwritten note. and say welcome to the program if i can ever help you please let me know that's something i'm known for doing many of our staff have received that so i'll wrap up by saying it was offered to me to write the letters and then just drop them off with staff however in previous instances when i've done that i've been informally reprimanded by council for doing so and utilizing staff resources when it wasn't collectively coming from the body as a whole some kind of Yes, you can do this this time, but you can't do it next time and couldn't do it then. But now I can do it here. So really, I just wanted to write the letters and send a letter to our student ambassadors and say, welcome to the program. But I'm being denied access. And I think as a member of council, I should be able to get that information and trusted as a member of the council that the citizens elected to safeguard that information. Happy to have a discussion.

Anything else from anyone?

We were quite vocal in executive session. No one has anything to say now.

And I don't accuse everybody.

Well, I mean, you're welcome to speak in favor if you'd like.

That's the reason I think it's important that we have this discussion on our policies and procedures so they're standard. Because I was called today as some redacted information was on some of the applications that we haven't done before. And I was informed that personal information will be redacted from now on. So I think whatever goes into place needs to be a standard policy that is followed all the way around. however it gets voted in because that was brought to my attention today and it had not been done before from what I understand and I mean if we're gonna we can't do some here and some there and that's what we were discussing on these policies and procedures is making sure everything is uniform across the board.

So no one wants to speak up because we were quite vocal in executive session. and challenged to actually have the conversation in public. So now we're doing that if we don't wanna have that.

discussion I didn't have a lot to say about it, but I will say that to me is just about I think coming from the staff and I don't know right or wrong where you're right we probably we don't have a policy that goes straight across. But I think it in this if you just single it out and it could be just the minor situation not I mean I don't know that there's any real problem that needs fixing with addresses of people in the town. I don't think it would have been a problem for you to write a letter honestly. But at the same time I guess if we're having a major discussion and we want to go down this road, I mean I could think that's the only issue I would say is maybe them being minors. But other than that, I mean I think that it's perfectly fine for you to write a letter. to whoever. Handwritten letter.

And just to state publicly I appreciate that sentiment Councilmember Michaels and I would trust you with this information you were elected by the citizens entrusted with their information we see information all the time and we have to be trusted by our staff to safeguard it. And I would emphasize also as I've stated, I believe in my email chain as well that staff who I certainly respect that reviews we trust them to review these applications. They're privy to these miners addresses. They don't have a special security clearance that. Allows them to see this information that I don't have. I'm just I'm struggling to see why I wouldn't be trusted, but a member of staff would be and I certainly have no reason not to trust our members of staff. I'm just trying to understand why I wouldn't be trusted. There were certainly spirited. Opinions in executive session so happy to hear this.

So another thing that may be different. and thoughts is unlike other boards and commissions we don't actually appoint these and pick these the staff has a team that appoints and picks these and we never really see the full application on them and i'm i'm just telling you my thought process is what it may why it may be different because they are minors there's a team that works with them they work with them the whole time I mean, personally, if I wanted to write them a letter, I'd probably write them a letter and go to one of their meetings and hand them out.

Certainly a feasible option. Madam Mayor, if I may ask, the members of the committee that review the student ambassadors, when they review, is all that personal identifiable information redacted for all members of staff?

No, not when they're reviewing the application.

Okay, so we do trust our members of staff, but I, as a member of council, would not be trusted with that information.

Madam Mayor, I just want to clarify something. As a council member, there are certain situations when you are entrusted to receive this type of information, receive this information. There's no question about that. You're gonna see people's addresses with looking at business licenses. In this situation with the ambassadors, I think the question is, what needs to be clarified is to what extent is What's the boundaries on their role as a council member? As your official duties, yes, you're going to be able to see information like this, and you're entrusted to see information like this, but to take it a step further by taking that information you receive as a council member in your official capacity, and then going outside of that boundary and contacting these individuals directly, whether it be minors or whoever, I think that's the question is where's the line between your official duties and in your duties outside of that. And so nobody's denying a council member of access to, um, you know, confidence from information as a council member. The question is to what extent do you take that information and do you go outside of your duties as a council member to utilize it to contact individuals? I think that's the question. that needs to be decided. And obviously that's council's decision in a policy to say, okay, what are you allowed to do with information you receive in your official capacity as a council member?

Madam Mayor.

Yes, sir.

As somebody who didn't talk about this in executive session, I'll go ahead and share my opinion on this. Rachel, when these applicants apply, are they told that this information may get shared with council members or are their parents or guardians told that?

No.

So it seems very logical that when we're talking about high schoolers or minors, there's a different level of care involved with that information. That seems like common logic. So as far as my opinion is concerned, I see no reason why any member of council would ever need any minors or any high schoolers home address or cell phone number. I see no reason why that's ever. So if we need to actually codify that and put that into our policies, I'd be for that.

Council member Allen have you ever written a letter to anyone as a member of Council. I don't think you have I don't right Myers though. So I guess my question would be if we're going to codify that Council can't see that are we also going to codify that members of staff can't see that. And then lastly I do want to push back on our attorneys assertion that it would potentially be outside of my official duties, I believe that's up to what I. as the elected official deemed to be my official duties now I think we can all acknowledge that if I took the information and when it entered into my campaign database that would be I actually believe a violation of state ethics laws. However, in my official route capacity if I would like to write them a letter and say fantastic job this year as a student ambassador for the town I should be able to do that because I believe that is part of my official responsibilities. I also think that we could come up with some very reasonable way in which we could handle a situation like this. I respect safeguarding the information of minors. I absolutely respect that. This could have been handled by saying, why don't you write the letters and bring them to us and we'll have addresses with the addresses printed on them and we'll drop them in the mail for you. That was not offered. Because apparently I'm not allowed to mail them at their home. You know, this is something that my now-passed-away grandmother instilled in me, that I always write people handwritten notes. I believe every member of this council has received one from me. It's just who I am. There's no mental intent for it. that's all it has nothing. It's nothing more simple than that actually and I just think that the policy is being well, there is no policy that I think that the rule is being applied unfairly we're just making up a rule here.

Madam mayor, yes, sir. Just for clarification, it was offered to Councilmember Smith that he could write the letters and bring them here and staff could hand them to the applicants, correct?

That is correct. I'll go ahead and state for the record that I was offered that. However, the last time I asked staff to do that, I was reprimanded in an executive session by not all members of this council, but members of council for utilizing staff resources that did not include all of town council because their names weren't all on the letter.

Okay, but that suggestion, that came from you, Ms. Rachel?

I offered that he could bring them up and staff could distribute at a meeting, or he could bring them to the September 21st meeting where they are being introduced and he can hand them to them.

So just for the record, that to me seems like a perfectly reasonable approach to how to deal with this situation of dealing with, again, minors or high schoolers' personal information. That seems... you did a good job, thank you.

So I think I do think that it boils down to again there is no policy here we're just making it up because you think that I should not have and I'm not saying you Rachel, but you think I should not have access to some information there's no law that's been cited. There's no policy there's no procedure. I think we've exhibited that that exist in many areas across how policies that we don't actually have a policy to substantiate some made up practice that apparently we have. So I think I'm entitled to the information. I can certainly be safeguarded to write someone a letter. I don't know exactly what I'm doing with an address, but I think that we could certainly come up with some reasonable ways in which we as members of council could receive information and be trusted with it.

Madam Mayor.

Before I say, go ahead. Please. You go ahead. Go ahead.

I think the discussion's been had. If somebody wants to put something on an agenda and have an action item, let's please do that. But can we end the discussion that's going nowhere?

You had quite a few comments, though, in executive session, if you would like to add those.

That's because you want a political theater out here. I don't want a theater. I had my discussion with you. I'm not interested in this public theater. If we have an action item, let's get one on the agenda and take it. If we don't, can we close out this meeting and move forward?

So I'm going to close out with saying something. I have four daughters and ten grandchildren. And I can tell you this. Some of them would have a problem with you getting information. Some of them would not. It's just the way it is. Some of the parents are not going to want you to contact their children and have their personal information. Some of my kids wouldn't care. just you know they just wouldn't so it's kind of a fine line there i mean i haven't asked my four daughters which ones are which i could pretty much tell you by the way they raise their children but some of them would have a problem someone wouldn't say if you want us to put this on the work session well we are going to have it on the work session in october But you want it before then, right? Well, we can't vote before then.

No, that's fine. I mean, I think the position's been made clear. We've had the discussion here. And just to close out, I didn't want a political theater. I just wanted to exhibit that we have no policy. A rule is just being made up. And this is yet another indication that we need to look at our town policies and procedures so that we can codify things. If there was a procedure or a policy passed by council that prohibited this, I would respect that because it was passed. But this was just a rule that was made up because I requested some information that someone thinks I should not have which I respect.

hold on if i may just speak to that briefly i think that i've heard a few times that you're looking for a rule to preclude you from doing something and i think as one of the attorneys sitting up here i want to say that there's a good faith and fair dealing requirement there's a good faith standard there's a negligent standard like That kind of supersedes any and all of this, or it fills in the gaps. So to say there must be a statute or ordinance that prevents me from getting certain information, I'm going to tell you, we would talk about limited government. We'd fall over with the amount of books and three-ring binders we need for all the rules it would take to preclude anything and everything. So I think at some level, the government efficiency should prevail. I don't know that we need to have a policy that covers everything. At some point, good faith, fair dealing, general principles of fairness should apply. So I keep hearing you say something along the lines of I need a rule telling me I can't. And I must say there's a lot of things in life that you can't do that you don't need a rule that specifically tells you you can't do it.

Thank you for the sentiment. I do respectfully disagree with you. Madam Mayor, if I may just ask one final question and I'll conclude. Does council have any issue with me preparing letters and giving them to staff to be delivered?

Absolutely not.

Will I be okay to do that?

You can hand them to yourself on the 21st when they're here.

Sure. Just want to make sure on the record.

That was a lot. So, We'll have policies and procedures to update in October. We'll have a list. We'll get some stuff off the books that don't need to be there. We'll put some new stuff on the books that's better. Well, things will be redacted that are private information going forward. We have lots of things that are coming forward to do correctly. Correct? Yes, Mayor. And thank y'all for y'all's work and all you did. And thank you, all of your staff, for working hard. Are there any additional comments from the public regarding a specific agenda item listed tonight? Come to the microphone and tell us who you are, young lady. I'm getting old, I might forget.

You may not believe this, but I'm prepared to address my concern about what you just committed to.

And what you just committed to.

My name is Paula Kaufman, I live at 201 Allenbrook Way. I want each of you in this room, on YouTube, on council, to stop for a moment and think about why the mayor wanted to know that. Because I'm speaking to agenda items three, six, and seven, which for the first time have redacted addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses. Apparently there's no policy. I disagree with that information being redacted as a member of the public. I have been supplied with the agenda for the meeting. There is backup information provided, which helps me understand how you make decisions. And whether I agree or don't agree with the decisions you make, it helps me understand. It matters to me whether anybody coming to the town as an applicant, not as a minor, but as an applicant requesting this, that, or the other thing, it matters to me that they don't live in the same house as any of you. It matters to me that they do not live in the People's Republic of China, or Canada, or next door to me. Now, how am I gonna know that? if you block it out. I think these are documents that are a matter of public record. Nobody is forcing these people to apply for anything. They are doing it voluntarily. There's nothing on the form that I see that says this will be held confidential. We only wanna know your name when we can only tell that by trying to read your signature. So while you're concerned about your role as a council person, and I respect that, I'm more concerned about my role as a citizen who votes and lives and pays taxes, blah, blah, blah, and all of that. But we're trying to be transparent. And for the first time, I see these big black lines that tell me this is not transparent. Thank you. Good luck.

Thank you, Ms. Paula. Anyone else? Any questions from the news media? I don't think we have any. Staff, any questions or comments from y'all? Any questions or comments from council? Hearing none, on September the 22nd, Mayor's Storytime in the Park will be held at 10.30 a.m. in Virginia Hilton Park. There's always fun for both kids and adults, so come out and join us. The free fall concert series at Ice House Amphitheater has started. Concerts are held every Thursday at 6.30 p.m. through October the 8th. Come out and enjoy some great music and fun. Lexington's Week of Restaurants starts this week and runs from September the 10th through September the 20th. With so many local restaurants offering special menus and great deals, it's a perfect time to try a new place, enjoy some delicious food, and support our local businesses. For information and details about all these events, please check out our town social media outlets and website. That concludes our evening. Thank you for watching and we are adjourned.