City Council - Regular Meeting

Hello and welcome to our Tuesday evening 6 p.m. workshop. We are joined by Brenda Kelty, an AAG, who has come to conduct some FOA training for us. Councillor, she will present and then there will be time for questions afterwards.

Hi, thank you, counselors, for having me here today. I'm an assistant attorney general in the AG's office, and I'm also the public access ombudsman for the state of Maine. So in that role, I handle only Freedom of Access Act related issues. and i assist both agencies and requesters with navigating the statute provide trainings and make recommendations for improving that law which could use some improving um i don't think it'll ever be perfect but anyway so i i just want to set some expectations for today um I understood that there was a request for training from my office or from me way back, maybe in February, and then Councillor Chittum contacted me in February following a request to have me come in for training, and we spoke on the phone about a particular question that he had at that time, and then he let me know that he was going to follow up, which he did with more questions. So Councilor Chittum gave me a list of questions that he already wanted me to address in this session. And then Mr. O'Malley told me that I had 30 minutes. realistically I can't do I can't do a full training in 30 minutes and I can't certainly try to do that if I have already pre selected questions so I really was struggling with how to how to proceed because the last thing I want to do is waste any of your time but I also want to try to address whatever it is that prompted request to have me come in I know you you get trained and I'm assuming that everybody's training is current and you have legal counsel also to address questions so I'm kind of coming in with a just a little not really knowing exactly what it is you need from me today but I did based on the questions that councillor Chittum sent to me try to focus in on some of the questions around public records and what is a public record and how to work with that question if there's something else that is really burning and you really want me to talk about it it'd probably be good to let me know that now because we only have 30 minutes and i want to make sure i'm allocating time

uh hearing that from uh the aeg here yes i guess we'll take questions now um or at least she can collect questions counselor herman thank you thanks for being here um i had a question about how foa applies to activity on social media specifically um all right big topic yeah um is there something very specific about that

My specific question was about posting things on social media in places where the person, the official posting it doesn't have control over whether they get deleted or not and what their responsibilities are in those situations as far as preserving records.

So I don't understand why there's no control over it.

So if I post something on my, let's say Facebook, if I post something on my Facebook page, I own that page and I can control, I'm the only person who can delete that thing. If I post something on someone else's page or in a group, for example, I no longer have control over whether that message gets deleted. If I post it on another person's page, that person can delete that message. And if I post something in a group, the moderators of that group can delete that message. So I'm just curious about our responsibilities there.

And can I also just ask, has there been a specific complaint or issue with this and you've already received advice? no so nobody's addressed this with you with the council how did how to handle social media no okay it's a big topic and it's worthy of up specific training um because it's complicated so i'll i'll touch on it but i can't i i mean it really it really deserves a lot more time than i'm going to be able to give to it but it's an excellent question and if there it's probably universally a question so it's relevant and and timely probably and i think it's it is definitely not your only your question so thank you for putting that forward is there anything else

Tell Serena Jean to give your hand up.

I just put it up. Mr. Mayor. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming I just have a just a general question around open meeting laws when you have a group of people who desperately need to work together in order to represent the constituency and Have maybe disparate views different disparate opinions how do we conduct basically the concept of a retreat right like how do we how do we do something where we can build relationships within the council that is yeah with candor that doesn't violate open meeting law that one's a little easier to answer I'll put that on the list okay any others

Any other questions for the AG at this time? OK. All right, back to you.

All right, so in looking, we're going to talk about the public records question and what is a public record. But before we get to that, I really want to try and set the context because the question of public record doesn't just exist on its own. The big context is how is your city handling information governance in the big picture because what you're doing is plucking some piece of record out of this whole scheme of how are you dealing with information governance and we know and of course this is why the records are so interesting and of you know so much people want to see them is because information is an asset and you all are not only creating assets but safeguarding assets for your organization for the city um it has a great there's great value and at the same time there's also great risk involved with records and so the question really is is handling of your records in the big picture an incidental consideration kind of off on the side or after the fact or is it something that's been made more primary so that later on downstream when you get questions about producing or whatnot or am i supposed to retain this or you know that that that is not a big surprise at that point that you hopefully have some sort of scheme that has informed you about the records that you're handling and creating and what to do with them, right? So information governance is the much bigger picture that this fits into. And, you know, a lot of it has to do with organizational maturity, how clear are the policies related to how you're handling your records? How well trained are people on this? Is it uniformly and standardly applied across city government um these are all indications of mature organizational maturity and my experience has been because i deal with all municipalities although i'll say as an aside it is my goal to go to every city or town town hall in the state of me because i've dealt with so many over the phone and through email and now when i you know i'm like let's go here let's go there i want to see their town hall But people are at all levels of operational maturity across the state of Maine. And nobody's perfect. This is something I've experienced could be worked on at every level. And I don't personally know what your policies are like or what your training is like or how much you've really delved into this more foundational question about how we handle our records versus, oh my God, what do I do now? I got a follow-up request for something. And in this sort of scheme, the more mature organizations are going to have a more coordinated approach. There's gonna be a more top-down leadership drive to make sure that all, everybody in city government, so staff, employees, elected officials, everybody, appointed officials, understands what their responsibilities are and how to meet those responsibilities, that there are standards, and that you can satisfy not only compliance, your compliance requirements, but you can manage risk at the same time and optimize the value of the information. So it's not just about FOA. It's about how you handle information across city government. FOA, but we're gonna get to FOA. But I just wanna set the context for that because many of the problems we have with public records, really, the problem really lies with records management and not knowing what to do. Do I retain this? Do I not? Those questions. can get answered in a different way with good training and good standards and good policy so that when it comes to FOA, it's much less of a problem. But I just want to put things, the pieces into context a little bit here. So when we're talking about this coordinated approach and sort of bringing in all the elements that are under your information governance, we're talking about record management, in other words, What do I have? What do I have to retain? How long do I have to retain it? How do I retain it? And when can it be lawfully destroyed? Records management. But there's also data privacy involved. And I'm sure your IT is like all over this. because we are in an environment where our data and our information is constantly at risk. And it's not just yours, it's the city's, it's your taxpayers'. So across your organization, security and access controls internally, how do you segregate confidential information so that only the people who should get it are able to get it? and then the other big thing that comes up that's all related under the same umbrella is e-discovery and because that's where we are now and so litigation concerns potential litigation concerns and how are you able to access the information in order to meet discovery requirements things are getting very sophisticated the requests are getting very sophisticated the discovery is getting very sophisticated and i know even in our office the expanding the platforms so that we can handle the information. Even our office needs more operational maturity. But putting all of that into that picture, now let's look at the record management question only. So I'm setting aside security and data breaches and all that other stuff, but it's all related. Here we have record management and if you're not familiar with what your record retention requirements are and why you have those, that's the place to start. You need a training on records management so that you understand and everybody understands what it is you're creating and what you have to do with it. And just so you have a little bit of foundational knowledge there, records management requirements in the state of Maine are guided by the statute that covers the Maine State Archives. So archives. controls that, implements it, they have a records management division, and they promulgate record retention schedules that list the different kinds of records and how long they have to be retained, how they're retained, and when lawful destruction can happen. And these schedules are based on, it's a value-based retention. And this is also something to be thinking about with your own records, so operational need, legal requirements, audit or regulatory requirements, and then historical and archival requirements. So for instance, all of the governor's emails are considered archival. And the entire tranche of governor emails ends up over at archives. and they're currently updating their systems so that it's all gonna be searchable at some point online, separating out confidential information, but more searchable. But certain records have no lasting value and they are transitory and you don't keep them at all. There's no requirement to keep them. Like a notice that, I don't know, that this particular division is going to have a brunch, goes out in government email. It's transitory, it doesn't really have any value beyond a notification. Something like that doesn't have to be kept. It can be destroyed immediately. But then we have other records, it's much more complicated, and really complicated questions about that. Again, I'm starting in this place because this is foundational to production in response to a FOA request. If you don't know what you're supposed to be keeping, if you don't know how to keep it, if you don't know what to do with it, then it's a much more urgent and difficult question down the line when it becomes a request for production. Are there any questions about that so far? Okay, I'm rushing, I'm so sorry. So then the question, let's get closer, is this a public record? This thing that I have, is this a public record? And if you're asking that after you receive the FOA, you're possibly late in the game. You should probably know, based on your overarching information governance structure, whether or not this is a public record and if it had to be retained. And how long and all those questions should have been answered already. So instead of waiting, and wondering, I suggest that you always ask when you're creating a record or you're receiving a record, do I know what to do with this kind of record? Do you know what to do with this kind of record? And I think this goes directly to the social media, for instance, which is a good example. And if you ask that question, here are the following questions. Is there a city records management? schedule that applies to this? Do I know who to consult with on these record management questions? What resources do I have? Is it subject to a schedule that exists? If I am keeping it, what repository am I keeping it in? What format am I keeping it in? Am I flagging it for confidentiality? Am I flagging it for lawful destruction? pursuant to his schedule. And if it's not in a schedule, what in the world do I do, right? If you are having those kinds of questions, Yay, that is so good because you are way upstream, you are handling the records management and you may not have all those answers. The question is who do you talk to in city government who's going to help you with this and is going to be creating standards for instance with the social media. So these are great questions to have and I really encourage you to let yourself wonder that when you're creating a record or or you're receiving something and you're just really not sure what you're supposed to do with it i mean ultimately ultimately you're going to want good solid training and a good basic understanding of what to do but you might not know everything and so that's where it's who do i turn to who's in charge of this so um public record First, the Freedom of Access Act has to be liberally construed, which means you're going to lean more toward finding something public than not. You're going to lean that way. the it has to be applied in a way that promotes the underlying purposes of the statute and what are those very simply put open deliberations open actions government accountable to the people is a pretty sweeping ideal of how representative government should work. Those are the underlying policy goals of FOA. And then you have to strictly construe any exceptions. So if there is a confidentiality exception, it's strictly, narrowly construed. All right, so that's the context of how you have to deal with FOA. And what's the definition of a public record? Does anybody know? Yes.

Anything that has to do with city business in any aspect?

Transaction of government business. The content has to concern the transaction of government business. What else? Two more things. Any format any medium and then finally it has to be in the custody or possession of an eight of the agency or official so it's those three things transaction of government business any any format any medium in the custody or possession of an agency or official that is a uh i think the legislature was intentionally on the vague side because there's no definition beyond that in the statute. And so we do have questions about is this really a public record or is it not a public record? Is it in your custody or possession? There's a lot of lack of clarity there, but I think the goal is to write the statute in a way that can capture the vastness of the intent. You know, so there's our definition. Here's what FOA doesn't do related to public records. It does not answer every scenario or every question. So you really have guidelines in the statute, but you can't turn to the statute for every specific thing and think you're gonna find, oh here's, you know, this is what it is. There can be shades of opinion that differ on certain things. It can get complicated that way so FOA is not neat and clean across the board It's not punitive. It's a remedial statute. So if you're looking to use FOA to nail somebody It's not designed that way. I mean, there's not you know, the enforcement really is around how can we correct what wasn't done right that's primarily the focus once you start talking about serious bad faith then you've got some other things in there but but it's it's what we call a remedial statute um it's not discovery and it's not a forensic audit so i see this a lot lately just FOA requests that basically is just extensive discovery requests or extensive like forensic audit. I mean, we want all your metadata, we want this, we want that. And FOA is not really designed for that. It's not a good alternative to the discovery process as set forth in law, but it gets used that way. and it doesn't define every term, doesn't make everything black and white. So it's good to know that, and I don't think it can ever, it's just too many situations. So there are some limitations with the statute itself, but we have a definition that's broadly sweeping for public records. now i'm happy to try to move into the questions just to make sure that we're gonna oh we don't have much time so i would start with counselor chittum um if you want to go ahead and give your your questions maybe we can try and get those

Sure, thank you. Yes, and I had emailed these to you earlier. I was going to walk you down a path to the point of absurdity, but I'm not going to do that anymore. I guess the first question and the key question relates to a request that we had for notes that we were taking while sitting here on the dice during a public meeting. Right. From what I've inferred from what you have said, I am the arbiter of whether that is a public record. It's in my possession. And so I decide that writing meat and potatoes on my agenda is not a public record, but this new program is going to cost us $400,000 is a public record. Am I correct in in my statement that I'm the arbiter of what is public record and therefore what I need to surrender?

No, I mean, I don't know how Lewiston is handling that. I would think, first of all, you have a process, right? And so your request is going to probably go through your public access officer. You're going to be asked to produce records that are responsive to the request. And then you're gonna produce records that are responsive to the request and someone is going to do a confidentiality review. I don't know if they ask you to do that. You've got legal counsel. I would think probably it's going through legal for confidentiality review. I think if you got asked for something and you weren't really sure whether or not you had to produce it, That's a conversation to have internally to determine is this actually a public record? And I'm sure you could dispute something, but hopefully you'd have a team approach that would help to answer what's the best position to take on this for the city and the taxpayers and the requester. So no, I don't necessarily agree that you're the arbiter. Hopefully there's a process around you because that would be a huge responsibility without any consult to decide whether or not. The question that I would think you're getting is, do you have a record that's responsive to the request? Then I would hope there's more team approach to what do we do with this if we're really not sure that it's a public record or really not sure if it's confidential.

your earlier statement that the statute is to be construed liberally and exceptions conservatively that being the case then as an elected official at any point during my life if i am committing anything to paper or video recording or voice recording that relates to city business i am then obligated to retain that per the retention policy and surrender it to the FOA officer upon request. Is that a fair statement?

This is where I would like to see City of Lewiston policy instructing counselors that these are the kinds of records that we expect you may be creating in the course of the work that you're doing and these are the ones that we consider public records that need to be retained and this is how to retain it we want um we want everything on the server That's a simple one, right? We don't want, if you had to do some communicating outside of your Lewiston email address, copy it over to this address, we want everything on the server or we want everything downloaded into these particular files We want everything prior to the end of your term moved over here so that it's in our possession, right? So those are the kinds of, I mean, really specific instructions on how to handle the records that you're potentially creating. And then I guess the conversation would be, well, is my tape recording of um council meetings a record that's a public not just public record is it a record a city record that needs to be retained right so i i would hope that especially if these are questions that you don't have a policy for you haven't had those conversations it would be really good to do that you know and you won't be wondering what am i what am i supposed to do with this And the big problem I do see, particularly in smaller municipalities, is we have volunteers, right? Volunteers are taking on these positions of responsibility and then they leave, they end their term, and no one knows where anything went. Where are their emails? Where are the records? Because they haven't really received any training on exiting and making sure that the municipality is retaining because the municipality is responsible for the records. And I see that even in state government where one official or somebody leaves and there's not a good process for capturing and properly retaining so it's all somewhat related does that answer your question uh well it raised more but i'm going to let other other counselors address the time we have left um Yeah, the social media. Posting on social media, this is very difficult. One of the difficulties with social media is capturing the records because in order to retain, you have to capture. And if you're not, if you're, here's a potential problem. You are creating something that could be considered a public record, but you don't have the capability to capture it. Should you be creating that record because you can't capture it and you don't have any control over it? There's no easy answer to that because on the other side, you're probably attempting to communicate. And we need we need communication and we want to communicate. But on any platform where there's an issue with capture, that's where you need clear instruction from the city about what, you know, do I do this? Should I not do this? And it's not just Facebook where it's posted somewhere else and you don't have the controls. there are other apps and other platforms that are problematic in that regard so that's a caution like if you're thinking about being on something that you can't capture and retain and it's a record and it's a public record you're really in uh you know not a good place um and i and i don't know i i don't know you know you don't have control you can't get it so what do you do yeah

Yeah, I wondered if elected officials, anytime they post something, whether it's making a post or writing a comment on social media, should they be taking a screenshot of that and saving it somewhere?

Here's the issue. I know in the state of Maine, there was a pilot project recently with a couple of agencies decided to implement social media capture with a very expensive platform. which essentially watched everything and took care of capturing everything and storing it and then it was accessible. Other than that, I don't know how you do it. How do you do it? I mean, technically it's just without that kind of platform assistance and that's gonna be an investment. So we're in an in-between place there because of course you wanna be able to communicate and we do use social media to a large extent to reach the population. But screenshotting every post, I mean, that's tough. So again, this is a place where I say the city needs to make a decision about what to do about that and whether or not it's worthwhile to invest in technology that will do it for you.

Yeah, my concern was not so much about if I post something on my own page where I have the control over it, but if I post something in, say, a community group or on someone else's page, they can delete that at any time. So it seems like I need to take a screenshot of it to save it for myself.

To save it for yourself, right? Yeah, maybe that's a solution. But truly, the state of Maine had to look at, do we have to have a program that's going to just capture everything, even I mean, just because it needs to be accessible. Yeah.

I mean, I would think that that would be akin to me when I do a news interview, either for TV or print media. I'm not required to keep that, and I am not in custody of that, correct?

You're being interviewed by media. you're not creating the record you don't have the record um you could always ask for it to make sure it may be something that want you want to document but based on the definition of public record and you don't have custody or possession of it so um the other question was the open meeting retreat um you know i understand the desire to have a little bit more open candid maybe say things that could be uncomfortable or may challenge somebody within the context of hoping to bring something forward you know to or to build trust or to do all those things but if you're discussing that government business it's a meeting it's an open meeting you can't just close it because you want to be more candid and this is the same thing with executive session we can't just go into executive session because it's sensitive um so i would say no i mean and i've seen situations where public bodies have gone into a retreat setting and posted notice and location and opened it to the public. And there was no public. Nobody came, but made sure that it was accessible. So I would say no, you can't. Anything else?

As we need to wrap this up, is there any final thoughts from counselors? Councilor Nagy.

I just wanted to again say thank you for coming. I appreciate it. I wish we had more time.

I know I'm so sorry to rush through but I'm always available and Brian has my email if anybody wants needs something from me or wants to follow up on something I'm happy to do that. So thank you all for the work you're doing.

Thank you for coming. Good night. Give Aaron Fry our best. Administrator Kinrath, I believe we're heading to executive session.

Requested action is to enter into an executive session pursuant to MRSA Title I, Section 4056C, to discuss an economic development issue of which the premature disclosure of the information would prejudice the competitive and bargaining position of the city.

May I have a motion, please? So moved. Councillor Chittenden. Second. Seconded by Councillor Nagy. All in favor? Yes, we're unanimous. Thank you. We're heading into executive session, and we are doing our best to get here back by 7. Hello and welcome to our Tuesday evening council meeting. Appreciate you all being here. I think we have, is Gabrielle Russell here? Yeah, okay. We have Gabrielle Russell who will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you very much, Gabrielle. Madam Clerk, I believe we're ready to begin.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. All roll call votes for this meeting will begin with the Council of Ward 4.

I understand we have minutes?

Yes, sir, of the May 19th meeting.

I have a motion to accept the minutes.

So moved.

Councilor Chittum. Second. Signed by Councilor Nagin. Yes, Councilor Herriman.

May I just ask if the two corrections were incorporated into there that I mentioned?

Yes, Councilor Herriman sent an email noting that during second public comment, the speaker wasn't identified, so we added that in, and then we just clarified Councilor Herriman's comments regarding the absentee ballots in the school budget election under other business. Yes, thank you, Councilor.

Thanks. I think we're, Madam Clerk, yes, thank you, Councillor. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Councillor from word four? Yes.

Word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? Yes. Word one? Yes. Word two? Yes. Word three? Yes. Motion passed by vote of seven to zero.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. We are now up to public comment. Any member of the public may make comments regarding issues pertaining to Lewiston City Government. This period is reserved for non-agenda items. Public comment is also allowed during individual agenda items. Public comment is limited to three minutes per person. Please state your name for the record and please indicate if you are a Lewiston resident. For our council rules, this period is reserved for Lewiston residents only because this is the business meeting of Lewiston City Council. All questions should be directed to the mayor who asked staff to follow up at a future time. It is illegal for the city council to allow comments related to personnel matters. All personnel complaints should be made directly to the city administration office.

Good evening, Rin Sol, Ward 5. Over the past few months, the residents have witnessed not only our city declining, but this council declining. Our city attorney once told us that individually we didn't hold a lot of power, but together you could be very powerful. You guys don't have to like each other. You don't even have to respect each other, but you do need to work together. I don't know what you think you're going to accomplish with all the arguing and just not getting along. It needs to stop. You have an entire city depending on you. Get your shit together. Come on guys. You're better than this. Thank you.

Ronnie Parity, Ward 6. I'm here to address the council from Ward 5. I don't care. You wrote something that is very, not, shouldn't have been written on Facebook. And that really disturbed me as a Christian. You put, Jesus hates us. Jesus doesn't hate us. Jesus loves us. And to put that on Facebook, and to put the word hates, I thought you were a social worker. And to do that, it's awful. You know, it's awful what you're doing. Anyway, back to... the mayor and his appointment for a safety committee. Mayor, you're putting the same people that think the same way on your committees, and it's your friends. And the thing is that we need people on opposite sides of the fence to debate the issue and come to the middle. This is what the city needs. We're not talking together. We're divided, and you're not representing the whole city at all. Will you start representing the whole city? And if you don't like somebody, they still should be appointed to these committees. Thank you. And please don't write anything on Facebook about Christ or anything else. That's an insult to me as a Christian.

Bill Lunderigan, Ward 6. I may run over a little bit and I've asked this lady if I could use some of her time. Counselors. You need to step up and take control of discussions and stop the mayor's continually interjecting his opinions and whatnot. What needs to be done? You know the city counselors you need to make the decisions. Concerning downtown violence, the police department need to identify the instigators and perpetrators of the crimes and violence, and if any of them here are illegal, then they should be turned over to the federal offices for deportation. If they are here illegally, they need to be entered into the justice system, and the downtown agencies need to work with the down people to curb the criminal activities. Another committee, I don't know what good that's gonna do. According to the revaluation, who in their right mind in a main community would select a Plano, Texas multinational conglomerate to do our revaluation? The only reason would be to place other states' real estate values on our community. They did not visit the property. They placed the highest possible value on the houses, hoping that the very few people would have the time to appeal the process. Land valuation is even worse. two-year sample of sales does not provide enough information for a true representation representation of land values I have several examples on the agenda there is an order for the disposition of 68 Jones Street the city council is authorizing the sale at five thousand dollars market price The city's realtor initially priced the property at $24,900, reduced it to $19,600 and realized it was inadequate frontage for buildings, yet the revaluation process had that land valued at $42,900. Something's wrong. Example two. The 1.9 acre parcel of land in Ward 6, consisting of seven properties over 50 years old, was priced at $176,842 per acre, while the individual per acre valuation ranged from $156,452 to $215,000.

land value please sir so i i understand uh the person behind you wants to yield their time but we actually don't allow that here uh you did it the other night uh so uh what what this person behind you can do is take what you have and can identify herself and then continue reading but that will be the way to do that one of the last two meetings i don't want to i don't want to argue with you so your time is in fact up if you want the person behind you to continue reading uh that is uh their prerogative nope that's fine you can also email public comment at lewis and maine.gov please continue with public comment

Marcel Leclerc, Ward 5. As a resident of Lewiston, I'm deeply disappointed by the comments and public conduct of Councillor Christy Noble. Public officials hold positions of trust and influence. Regardless of political differences, our community deserves leadership that is respectful, measured, and professional. Using inflammatory language like you gotta be a and i am going to say effin instead of using the word a real effin loser to post rage bait and posting phrases like hashtag jesus hates you does not reflect the level of civility and responsibility that many residents expect from an appointed representative We can disagree on policy, gun violence, community events, or activism without resorting to hostility and rhetoric that further divides our city. Lewiston is facing enough challenges. We need leaders who bring people together, not push people further apart. Ward 5 deserves leadership that communicates responsibly, listens to residents, and represents the community with dignity. Because of these comments and the tone they set, I believe Councilor Noble should resign from her position effective immediately. I also want to speak from a personal experience. I tried to reach out publicly to my ward rep with a question about gun violence in our city. Rather than engaging with those questions, her reply was, I'm busy doing anything else. That is not what residents deserve from someone that was appointed. If you're going to hold public office, then do the work of listening to your constituents and help address the very real problem of gun violence in our city. Finally, I want to challenge each of you up there Every single counselor here tonight, put your differences aside and join us tomorrow evening at 7 o'clock at Calvary Church on Main Street. If you truly care about making this Lewiston safer, we have to be willing to come together, have difficult conversations, and work towards solutions. Lewiston deserves better. Thank you.

If you would like to speak at public comment, you'll have to get in line, sir. Sir, please sit down, thank you. Mr. Agron, please continue with public comment.

Matthew Agron, Ward 4. I've been very quiet about the mayor suddenly remembering that this time period is by rules for citizens and taxpayers. It was very interesting because for most of the mayor's two terms, anyone could walk up to this podium during this time and offer their opinion on what was going on with the city and what they wanted done. This is part of the reason that the last council, for all of you who served on it, remembered that we had to put a limit on public comment. Because there were so many outsiders who were here, it was taking 40 minutes to get to the meetings. Using these rules, we've had the mayor want to stop survivors of the October 25th mass shooting from speaking out because they don't live here. But you know what they have done? They were taxpayers because both of those businesses paid taxes and they were there spending money paying taxes on that money. Given that we've put in a time limit on public comment, as well as a second period in case we missed it or came in late, could you guys think about changing the rules to be more like the school committee, which have a priority giving Lewiston residents and taxpayers first shot, but anyone can speak? I hope that all of you listening have had a chance to read the police chief's interview with the main wire, where she spoke openly and very honestly about what she sees as the issues that Lewiston PD is currently having. They're running into a lack of legal support and accountability keeping these young offenders locked up. Instead, they're released way too soon without any real punishment given. If we don't get this under control, how long will it be before somebody's innocent, non-involved person catches a round downrange and, heavens forbid, bleeds out on the street or in their own apartment or home? But this is not something that just the City of Lewiston can fix. We need the parents and guardians of these youths to step up and do the hard job of being parents and role models for these youths. We need our state rep who's sitting up there with you, standing up in Augusta, arguing for real change the way our state-run justice system isn't working for the safety of this community, but it seems to be working against it. And finally, we need all the outside federal assistance we can get, because these firearms and drugs aren't all coming from here. Huh, we just had a dump truck stolen in mass come all the way to Lewiston, Maine, where it took out a Lewiston police cruiser. Wonder why it came all the way up here. Very interesting.

Good evening. My name is Destiny. I'm from Wyndham. I escaped out of Smenge's. I'm a Lewiston shooting survivor. On May 5th, I submitted a written request asking for information regarding the remaining 1.9 million raised for the survivors and victims of the Lewiston mass shooting. I had respectfully requested a response within 30 days in the letter. As of today, some of you have not replied and I am still awaiting your response. Why do some city council members seem reluctant to provide clear answers regarding funds raised on behalf of victims and survivors? The varying reactions indicate that some care about the survivors, while others do not and would prefer us to go away. when will the survivors victims families be given a clear accounting of these funds and their distribution the survivors victims families donors and the public deserve answers The decision of some city councilors to refrain from responding to basic questions about the 1.9 million that was raised for the Lewiston shooting victims and survivors who were at Smenge's and the Bowling Alley on October 25th, 2023 is quite disappointing. The Maine Community Foundation can resolve this issue, and your support will be crucial in enabling them to do so. Continued silence only raises more questions about the handling of these funds. Ignoring reasonable questions does not build trust. It damages it. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. My name is Lisa Jones, and I live in Ward 2. We witness on a biweekly occasion the reasons for the very public decline of Lewiston. This council is quite literally dysfunctional, and you ignore some of the most pressing issues facing Lewiston. This is the same council who pretended they were helpless to get Iman Offman off the council before he was sworn in, and shortly afterward Chittum said, I propose we ignore the charter at a meeting. It looks really bad that sitting city councillors are protecting the place where a disabled child who went missing for nearly six hours during transport from Freiburg to Monmouth ended up, where ICE has picked up an individual, and where teens run when they're trying to flee the cops with a stolen car full of bullet holes. I wonder why that is. Councillor Noble has also stated multiple times that she's reported Councillor Martell to the Department of Justice. She's very obviously ignoring actual crime and wasting resources on an individual she doesn't like. I apologize for the language in the next part of my public comment, as these are not my words.

You've got to be a real... I'm sorry. You can just not use language.

Are you going to do something about what she said, or can I read it? One or the other. I'm going to read her comment, or you're going to hold her accountable.

Please continue with public comment. Thank you.

You gotta be a real fucking loser to rage bait a peaceful business that's doing nothing but helping Africaners, the white Africans, that your POS president is saving under the guise of gun safety. Maggots really hate how resilient the African community is. You showed yourself as the racist pig you are and we see you. Misery loves company and you will never bring that community down with your political grandstanding. The only people who think you're cool are the miserable people you show off to. The African community will continue to be lifted and supported by the people in their community who see their value. You'll never win the war you've instigated in the community. Hashtag Jesus hates you. I have to wonder how every person in Ward 5 that voted for Donald Trump, every person in Ward 5 that considers themselves to be a Christian, felt about their representation when they saw Chrissy's online behavior. When she was installed in that Ward 5 seat, we tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. Now it's clear to the public why you subverted democracy and put her there with no public support. I'm not sure what war she's referring to, as the only combat I'm aware of is between the gang at Hillview and the gang that call themselves K Block. In response to all this community violence, Maine Wire reporter John Featherston and gubernatorial candidate Ben Midgley have stepped up where Lewiston City leadership has been absent and have arranged a community forum on the topic tomorrow night at 7 p.m. at Calvary Church across from Martin's. Lastly, I'm seeking an update on Destiny Johnson's request that you reach out to the Maine Community Foundation to pressure them to make it right with mass shooting victims by giving them the remaining $1.9 million that was raised for them.

Andrew Jones, Ward 2. First thing I came to talk about tonight was flock cameras. It's my understanding that a lot of the public and probably some of the council feel strongly against the use of those cameras. I understand that people find it controversial. They have concerns about who has access to the data. However, if you were paying attention to the news the last week or so, flock cameras helped catch three assholes who stole a car out of Massachusetts and came up here, presumably to cause more trouble. We should support the use of this technology in the hot spots of our city to help combat crime. The other thing I want to talk about was a thing that a lot of people are talking about, and that was Councillor Noble's public comments on social media. That was quite the black eye for the council. Based on your facial expressions, I'm guessing you agree. That's good to see. The public did give you the pendant of the doubt when you were put in that position by the council, thinking that you were just an innocent bystander. But based on those comments, it sounds like you're just the same part of the partisanship that's going on up there. You know, that post was pretty outlandish. On the 1 to 10 scale of lunacy, I'd say that you went full on Melissa Dunn with that one. And I think that you should resign out of respect for what the council should be and how they're perceived publicly. I just don't see that happening when there's another fascist on that council who won't resign either, even though he's now facing his third censure. Last thing I want to talk about, you know, Destiny Johnson was up here. I was glad to see that she was able to give public comment without somebody objecting that she was from Wyndham because as far as I'm concerned, she's from Lewiston. She's called on the MCF to return the money that they took in bad faith. And I just wonder why can't the council stand with her and also make that statement? LIKE, I KNOW THE MAYOR HAS COMMENTED THAT THEY DON'T HAVE, HE DOESN'T HAVE SUBPOENA POWERS AND WE CAN'T COMPEL THE MCF TO DO ANYTHING, BUT YOU CAN STILL ASK. THE PRIVATE CITIZEN DID. WHY CAN'T YOU?

CHARLES SOUL, AGE 73, 70 HORTON STREET. You know, it's time for the whole state to move forward. The average age of a person in Maine is 49 years old. So why would you vote for anybody over 70? And why would you want to start a dynasty? And then why would you vote for someone who tried to kill?

There's no politicking here or campaigning. I'm not campaigning for a person. I'M JUST REGARDLESS MR. SEWELL DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT BELLOWS WHO TRIED TO KEEP A CANDIDATE FROM THE BALLOT OF MAY WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT CAMPAIGNING HERE SO EITHER YOU CAN STOP OR TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE THANK YOU FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT YEAH ME

Ray Tute in Ward 7. He's not even looking again. Amazing. Can you hear everybody here? You guys are listening? People are pissed off. I could be here for two hours talking about you guys. Ward 1, Ward 2, and Ward 7, this has nothing to do with you guys, because you guys, I feel like you're trying to do the best you can for the City of Lewiston. The rest of you, if you were in my business, you'd be all fired tonight. I think you should all resign. Harriman, Mr. Chalene, Mrs. Noble, you shouldn't even be there. You were a puppet, and you're still a puppet. Mr. Chittum got you in there, I'm sure. You guys, it's a disgrace to this city. I've talked to a lot of people. A lot of people think this is a joke, this council, one of the worst we've ever had. And Mr. Chalene, I don't know if you ever heard this name, we had a mayor here a long time ago by the name of Tara Cayley. She was known as the worst mayor we've ever had in Lewiston. You made her number two now. You should resign immediately because we can't take this no more. I live in a good area of Lewiston. I hear sirens every night. We hear gunshots. We don't even know if it's a gunshot or fireworks, but the next morning we hear it's gunshots. And you don't want ICE here. I don't think you want to help the Lewiston Police Department. You're not doing anything. You guys are not doing anything. And you can see it right here. I've been to two meetings. And people come in, and all they're doing is complain about you guys not doing your job. And then you've got a councilman here that's been censored three times. He shouldn't even be on any board, and he can't even look at us. And he should resign immediately with you, Mr. Sheline. Enough is enough. We're tired of it. We can't walk the streets. You go down lower Lisbon Street, it looks like Mogadishu that got tornadoed. A nice building on the corner of Lisbon and Main Street has been emptied, the old Dosti building. Been emptied for two years. No one's doing anything to try to get business. And I can think because no business wants to come to Lewiston because of the way it looks, the way things are happening here. I kind of feel bad for the police department because these people are working.

That's time. Thank you.

sir my time is up but your time is up also further public comment hi carl how are you if you can identify yourself and state where you live please my name is jess paquette i live in lewiston i voted for you i supported you i considered you a friend and you have done nothing but disappoint us this is my first city council meeting and i'm pissed You can't censor me for that. But all of you, and I apologize if all of you are not involved, but you're all about as useless as a pack of dirty tampons. All right? And I hope... That's all I got to say. Okay? And also one thing. My dad's name is on the Veterans Memorial Wall. He did 20 years in the Air Force. Ran away from home when he was 17. Okay? Because he came from an abusive family. His name is on that wall. And you're a disappointment to all of our veterans, past, present, and future. And one other thing... Shame on you for not coming to our Memorial Day celebration. That meant so much to us. My dad's name is on the wall. I got my dad flown with his ashes at the Blue Angels air show last year on an L-39 Albatross jet. He talked about wanting to go back into the service. So you know what? I made that happen for him. I had his flag flown in bubble wrap. a week after he was buried. He had taps. He had the whole entire American flag, dude. And your disgrace. Shame on you. Have a nice day. And I thank all of my veterans here. Thank you.

You have a great day.

Further public comment.

Hi, Bob McDonald, Ward 6.

I was going to speak, I have some stuff I wrote, but I'm not going to talk about this. I think it was extremely rude and I think it was extremely sorrowful that that gentleman that was, had issued his time to the lady in back of him was not let, was not let, you didn't let him express himself all the way. When I was mayor, every meeting, we opened it up for the public. Some people did it for 10 minutes, when I think even 15. Charlie and myself here, we got a little into it a couple of times, but people were allowed to speak. This is not Augusta. I know where this came from. This is probably from Kristin Kaludia, who goes to Augusta, and all of a sudden, up in there, you can speak for three minutes if you're a regular person. But if you're a retired legislator, you can speak all you want. So what I'm saying is it's time to go back to the old ways. Let these people talk. OK, some of them have a hard time expressing themselves in three minutes. Some of them have a lot of good points, which they can't do in three minutes. But it's time to start letting these people. This is the public right here. And you're representing the public. And if you don't know what the public thinks, well, how can you represent them? So I would ask you, maybe the next time you have a little meeting in the back there or whatever, maybe you ought to change that rule and let these people talk and make their points. And if they do start rambling, well, they used to ramble with me, we'd stop them. But as long as they're sitting there and they're making good points, they should not be stopped and they should not be censored. That's not what you're here for. You're here to listen. And you haven't done anything. You're supposed to come up with solutions, but we haven't seen any solutions for the gun violence or stuff like that. So obviously you haven't been doing any kind of a job.

Further public comment?

Good evening, Mr. Mayor. John Featherston, Saco, Maine.

As you know, I am not a Lewiston resident. I'm sorry. You are not a Lewiston resident. I am not a Lewiston resident, but I'm asking for some professional courtesy.

Mr. Mayor, we just allowed someone not from Lewiston to speak. I think if you give him 30 seconds, he'll be done. It'll take less time than arguing.

No, I'm sorry. You're not a Lewiston resident.

I did acknowledge that, yes, sir.

Yeah, thank you. Sorry, you cannot speak. Thank you.

But, Mr. Mayor, I think unless you speak out about the Somali violence, it's not going to be done.

Can you please leave? Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you. Further public comment?

How are we doing? Adam Jones, Ward 2. I don't have much to say right now. I have a little bit more to say later. But I just want to go back to my previous statements a couple weeks ago. I spoke on the city's mission statement. I talked about excellence. And I think if you look around here, what's excellent is you have a turnout of people that believe in one thing, and that is succession for the city, growth, development. I don't see a lot of good happening from that side of the bench, primarily from the ceremonial head. Hopefully he's gone this next election. But I think what you guys need to ask yourselves is, what can we do for our constituents, not what can I do for me? There's a couple of people up there right now that I I'm not really sure how they even got there, but maybe they're good doodlers, I don't know. Maybe they're good Facebook posters, but I think what matters most here is you have a representation of the masses that believe in one thing, and that is they just want a better Lewiston. And I don't believe that most of you up there are good examples of that. So I go back to my previous statements about excellence. And I feel that as a group of people sitting in a very powerful position to be able to have a voice for your constituents, you have to remind yourself that in a basket full of bad apples, it only takes one. And I see it with you, Carl. And I see it radiate to Harriman. And I see it radiate to Chrissy. It's just going to keep continuing. So I think the rest of you have a very powerful position to say enough's enough and put a stop to it before the rest of you are ruined. So just please keep that in mind. It's about excellence. It's not about what side of the aisle you're on. It's not about how I feel tonight when I go home and I read my Facebook posts or how many followers I have or, I don't know, how many young girls you post pictures with, Carl. Selfies and food and all that good stuff, right? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day, this is what matters. It's the people. So keep that in mind. It's all about excellence. You guys have a duty to follow the rules, to be professional, and to do your job the best that you can do. If I don't do my job in the best way possible, I'm no longer in that job. So keep that in mind. It's about excellence. Thank you.

Further public comment? Public comment is now closed. Administrator, I believe you have a report. All right, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Yes, some staff updates to acknowledge. Fire Lieutenant Matthew Wiers has been promoted to captain. Ronan Cardis has recently graduated from the Maine Criminal Justice Academy and will begin field training at the Lewiston PD. Captain John Daniels will be retiring from service with the Lewiston Fire Department after 41 years of service. So congratulations to all of them. We appreciate their service to the city and thank them for everything they're doing. Quick update on the reval process. City Assessor Bill Hill will be having his next public information session on Tuesday, June 23rd, 6 to 7 p.m. at the Senior Center in the Armory, 65 Central Avenue. We're inviting all to please attend, have your questions answered, and learn more about the reval process. Also of note, we got some information back from Tower Technologies. 8.3% of property owners have scheduled an informal hearing on their new valuations and they will have notices sent out to them by sometime later this month with information back on their meetings and potential new new valuations a reminder the Martel project will have a ribbon cutting on Thursday July 16th at 10 30 a.m That is the date of the housing is given to us. And we invite all members of the public and anyone else interested to please come and attend this monumental groundbreaking for the city. So again, July 16th at 1030 a.m. Excuse me. The Lewiston Fire Department staff recently completed a series of updated training programs designed to strengthen emergency response, firefighter safety, and operational readiness. Training areas include hydraulics, practical training, medical training, CPR certification, hazardous materials response, vehicle stabilization, and extrication, as well as hose testing and some others. So we appreciate the fire department for all they're doing and for being engaged in this extensive new training. uh last week uh just to know senator collins did visit the lewiston police department for a tour of the new facilities she also met with senior police leadership to discuss department needs and resources available at the federal level the department did recently secure 2.1 million dollars through cds funding for protective gear other safety equipment and so other needs were highlighted with senator collins as well as some of the situation in Lewiston regarding gun violence and other issues and help that we could potentially receive at the federal level. lewiston high school graduation uh the class of 2026 is on uh june 5th coming up this friday 6 30 p.m at the lewiston high school field congrats to all graduates congrats to our superintendent all school staff for another another year we appreciate all of your service to the city as well lastly just a quick note the primary election is on tuesday june 9th a week from today polls are open 7 a.m to 8 p.m and also the school budget referendum will be happening on this day awesome thank you

Thank you very much administrator Kainrath. We appreciate your service to our city Madam clerk, I believe we have consent agenda and you have one update for us.

Yes, sir We staff is requesting that item number three be removed from the consent agenda Which is order approving the disposition of 43 Crowley Road so we will be removing that if that's okay, so the consent agenda will consist of a

And just to be clear, we're not just removing it from the consent agenda. We're just removing it off the agenda completely.

Thank you. I apologize. Yes, we're removing it from the agenda. There were some recent changes regarding that agenda item, and staff wanted more time to review that. So thank you, Mr. Mayor. Understood.

Thank you.

Three items on the consent agenda. Item number one, order approving the disposition of 68 Jones Avenue. Number two, order approving the disposition of 17 White Avenue. And number four, order authorizing execution of municipal quick claim deed for real estate located at 58 Central Avenue.

I have a motion, please. Councilor Nguyen, seconded by Councilor Chittum. Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Mr. Mayor, that's not what I was looking to be recognized for. Can I remove agenda items one and two, please, so that we can go over them individually?

Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Madam Clerk, did you note that?

Yes. So I guess the item before you is item four, which will be on the only remaining item on the consent agenda. So just for clarification, so before you on the consent agenda, item number four, order authorizing execution of municipal quick claim deed for real estate located at 58 Central Avenue.

Thank you. And as we're having a do over here, can I have a motion for that? So moved. Second. Second by Councillor Martell. Thank you. Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council from Ward 4?

Yes.

Ward 5? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? Yes. Ward 1? Yes. Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. Motion passed by vote of 7 to 0.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. And we are now back to item number 1.

Yes.

item number one order approving the disposition of 68 jones avenue requested action to approve the order approving the disposition of 68 jones avenue i have a motion please so moved second i'm sorry who said so moved is that you i think council ironman seconded by councillor chittum uh yes discussion among the council yes councillor naging um may i ask um some some questions um to um our head of planning and code um specifically about this property uh director connor are you here i thought i saw him and here he is yes thank you for joining us director connor please continue councillor neijing thank you from what i understand

From what I understand, this is a city parcel that we acquired through a tax lien that sits in a subdivision that when originally was created, all lots were buildable. Currently, could you tell me how many homes exist on that subdivision that were buildable on the smaller lots?

I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T HAVE THAT. THERE IS HOUSING THAT DOES EXIST IN THAT SUBDIVISION. RIGHT NEXT TO THAT, YES.

WHEN WE CHANGED THE ZONING IN ORDER TO REQUIRE LARGER LOTS, THE UNDERLYING ZONING DIDN'T CARRY THROUGH, SO NOW THIS IS AN UNBUILDABLE PROPERTY, CORRECT?

AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THAT'S CORRECT.

THE REASON WHY I'M BRINGING THIS UP, THESE ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES I THINK WE SEE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SMALL DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. originally when the subdivision was created this these could all be parcels that you could build a single-family home on now under current law you will should be able to build a duplex or a single-family home with a detached two-unit adu it's not buildable right now and i i want to just emphasize that to the council these are some of the problems that we run into when we look at development within community that was my point thank you very much

Further comments from the council? Public comment for this agenda item. Back to the council. Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council from word four?

Yes.

Word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? Yes. Word one? Yes. Word two? Yes. Word three? Yes. Motion passed by vote of seven to zero.

Item number two.

Item number two, order approving the disposition of 17 White Avenue. Requested action to approve the order approving the disposition of 17 White Avenue.

I have a motion, please. So moved. Second. Councillor Harriman, seconded by Councillor Nagin. Discussion? Yes counseling aging.

I just want to confirm that the purchaser the current purchaser this came before us before as a consent agenda item And the current purchaser is actually in a butter that is looking to Use this paper Street in order to build again a house because the property that he currently owns is Too small and this was again an unbuildable property. I don't know if anybody can answer that at this moment. I

Director Connor, are you still available? We appreciate your assistance.

Not a problem. I believe that is accurate. So his current lot is not buildable. Adding this will allow him to have a buildable lot. That is correct.

Okay, and that would produce a single family home that's probably paying $5,000, $6,000 in property taxes per year? Give or take. Yep. Okay, thank you. One of the issues that I've had with some of the properties that have been listed is that the end use, the highest and best use for those properties, is not communicated to us. We all approved on a consent agenda the last time around a bid from a real estate speculator from from Manchester New Hampshire when there was somebody was trying to build a single-family home here So I think it's important that we also understand what we're trying to do with those properties at the end. That's all

further comments uh public comment for this agenda item back to the council madam clerk please call the vote council from word four yes word five yes word six yes word seven yes word one yes word two yes word three yes seven to zero we are now up to item number five

Item number five, resolve approving the fiscal year 27 budget for the Lewiston School Department. Requested action to adopt the resolve approving the fiscal year 27 budget for the Lewiston School Department.

May I have a motion, please? So moved. Councilor Chen. Second. Second by Councilor Nagy. And we are joined here by Superintendent Langness and Committee Chair McLaughlin. If you two can please kick it off and then we'll go from there.

So we're here to answer any questions you may have, but a quick summary.

Just move the mic a little closer to you, please.

just a brief summary we've worked this budget down by an additional 1.17 million dollars making further reductions that include modification of workers comp LRTC support staff with grant funding special education AP which is vacant special education administrator a multilingual coach that was vacant that is vacant ed tech that is vacant hundred twenty five thousand dollars out of technology that will impact repairs and software that's in use some facility items also we've received a grant for summer transportation as part of an effort around grants that came in between the two these are items that we updated you on last time we were here i'm happy to answer any questions that you have i think the The bottom line that we really want to be making sure people are aware of is that $89 million of this budget comes directly from state subsidy. It's not a voted upon actionable item as much as that happens through the state budgeting and allocation process. This does bring the local ask down to $32,885,000. And so it's not an insignificant amount, but it's a 4.35% raise over the last year. and we did some calculations on the mill rate and an adjustment for home valued at 150 000 would be a 3.37 percent raise uh increase on on the uh the tax ask for that property over anything uh chair mclaughlin

Sorry, no, no, it's live. You're you're good to go.

I'm not used to these microphones. We have a different setup I'm just here to answer any questions as the school committee chair and I appreciate you all for having me.

Thank you One question I had superintendent understanding you that some positions it sounds like have been Frozen they were vacant. How many? people how many actual people have lost their jobs in this latest round of cuts and

That's a moving target with changing day-to-day with retirements and things like that. But my last count, we're at 26.

And what is the increase? Is there an additional since the last budget that we approved?

There's an additional five positions that pulled out of this. And then overall, there was 31 positions that were removed to make this budget land where it did.

Okay, thank you. Questions from councillors? PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM.

CAN YOU JUST PULL THE MIC DOWN CLOSER TO YOU? I'M NOT, MAYOR, BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS COMPLAIN THAT I TALK TOO LOUD.

FOR OUR FOLKS AT HOME WHO WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOU.

NO, I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO HEAR ME, BUT ANYWAY, I JUST WANT TO ASK THE SCHOOL SYSTEM TO PLEASE GO UP TO AUGUSTA THIS SUMMER. and talk to them about the rules for restraining and other things at the school system. We went, as a school board member, we went in 2005 to the feds and the four federal people from Olympia Snow who met with our school board in 2005 and talked about No Child Left Behind. I think we need to go back to Augusta and talk about what we did in the 90s to help control kids. And it's really gone to the left where we can't even touch kids or even hold their hands anymore. And I think we need to go back to Augusta to control to our rules that we had in the 90s. Thank you.

Bill Lendrigan, Ward 6.

My understanding is, looking at the budgets, that there is about $6 million carry forward from the current year's budget. I want to say that I feel that this council has not provided the financial direction to the school that they are allowed and authorized to provide. The school system, nearly 30% of the students don't graduate. About 60% are not proficient in reading. and 80% are deficient in math. Data indicates that the Lewiston School is a low performing school system, currently among the lowest performing schools in the state. The budget you are voting on is neither responsible nor reasonable. Over the past two budget years, the school has gained 16.2%, $17,927,668. That's not petty change. As city councillors, you are supposed to be leaders looking out for your constituents. Stop forcing the taxpayer to have to continually vote on a budget that is way over what it should be. I would propose that you authorize 116,322,990, which is about the FY26 budget. And that would give them a 3% over the last two years. 3% a year, that'd be 6% in total. Accept your responsibility, do what's right for the taxpayer of the city, Voting money does not mean a better education. By the way, taxpayers fund over 10 million more than the minimum required statutory recommendation. Thank you.

If we can please silence cell phones, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Andrew Jones, Ward 2. I just have a question for the superintendent, if I can ask that. Well, what we're going to do is you can pose your question and then continue on with the rest of the comment if there are any and then the Superintendent and the chair will take notes and then answer when we come back Okay, my my question is just if this budget includes the building on Main Street that was purchased that From what I understand needs a ton of work and if this budget does include that then I can't support it That's all I have to say Further yes

Good evening, Jay Zimmerman, Ward 5, and I teach in Lewiston Public Schools. I want to be clear to the council and to the public that what the school is asking of the taxpayers of Lewiston is not $128.4 million. The school department is asking for $32.8 million. That is only 30% of the budget that comes from city taxpayers versus from the state. So my earlier commenter who wanted to approve over $100 million to go to the schools, thank you, that would be amazing, but that would be greatly increasing what the school department is actually asking for. The schools are subject to fixed costs, same as everybody else. The cost of doing business increases. We are all aware of this from our personal lives. Schools are no exception. The cost of transportation goes up, cost of utilities goes up. We have to pay those or we don't have schools. I would ask the council to clarify for the public what percent of the city budget is represented by the school budget so that we are aware of that contribution to the city budget and the city budget as a whole. Given that the voters are only able to express their opinions on the school's portion of the city budget, it makes sense that folks are, well, feeling away, as the kids would put it. People want to believe that cutting the school budget is holding the school department accountable, but it is not Cutting the school budget is punishing children It is punishing children for the failure of historic city management to reevaluate properties in a timely fashion. I I don't disagree with anger that people feel towards the adults responsible for those decisions. I feel it myself. It's going to have ripple effects on all of us, renters and owners alike. I do need to speak up against adults taking their anger out on children. What kind of adult does that? Do we want those adults making the decisions for those children's lives? Children should not be punished for adults mistakes. I urge you to approve the requested school budget.

Thank you Further

Hi, my name is Lisa Jones. I live in Ward 2 and I own a business in Ward 7. I pay my fair share of taxes in Lewiston and then some. I have a general comment about the school budget. I am fatigued with people tying care for children to paying amounts of money that they don't have in their bank account. People are looking at losing their homes over tax increases and to imply that they do not care or that they are punishing children is unacceptable and emotional manipulation and people can see through it.

No, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that here. Thank you. If we can have the audience, please be quiet. That would be great. Further public comment for this agenda item? And if anyone else after this gentleman has public comment, please get up and form a line.

Sorry about that. My name is Dan Bernier. I work, I guess I live or have a property in Ward 6, I guess it is. Anyway, and I just, we don't really have the tools available to us, and it's really no one's fault, but Boston kind of runs on OpenGov, and they can see everything that's going on. So then we'd be on the same board when we communicate. So we don't have that. That's, you know, it's too bad. But I understand we talk about $130 million, or we talk about $30 million, but it really comes down to the people that, so that we understand, it's really just a percentage of increase of the mill rate. That's what we really have to communicate to people so that we don't, talk about a number that's not something that we're going to touch. One concern I did have, I know we get $130 million or whatever it is for the full budget, and a lot of that comes from Augusta. I'm not trying to get political, but And people talk here about ICE and federal government. And I know even the governor has been against the federal government back and forth. I would just be worried that some of that funding gets cut. And then we have a whole different problem going on. So obviously, school budget, it needs to happen. Kids are going to go to school. It's going to happen. But what number we're going to come at, it's just going to be painful because everybody's feeling pain in the community. That's what I'm hearing anyway. And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing it with violence. We're seeing it with drugs. There's problems. But to cast the blame on somebody, you know, look in your own cabinet and see if you can fix it. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

Further public? Yes.

Hi, I'm Nicole LeMay from Ward 5. I serve as the executive director for a nonprofit here in the city. And I just wanted to say that I think reducing the school budget will increase the school to prison pipeline for our community children. I work with a lot of the youth that are actually not allowed to go to school because of behaviors. And it's just one of the things that we have to cope with out here. And yeah, once they don't have access to school, they don't have access to programming, they get involved in the systems. And I think we're all seeing the weight of that right now. Thanks.

Further comment? Public comment is now closed. Back to the council. Questions for our superintendent and committee chair. Councilor Nagin, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. To the point that one of the speakers made, can you speak to the overall portion of the school budget that prizes the mill rate as well as the percentage increase year to year, this year, the proposed budget versus last year?

I CAN. SO THE MILL RATE LAST YEAR, SO THE MILL RATE LAST YEAR, AGAIN, THIS IS ALL BASED ON AGAIN, THIS IS ALL BASED ON $150,000 HOME. $150,000 HOME. SO PEOPLE HAVE TO DO WITH SOME SO PEOPLE HAVE TO DO WITH SOME LIVE MATH. LIVE MATH. LAST YEAR IS 1361. LAST YEAR IS 1361. MILL RATE AS PROPOSED IS 1407 MILL RATE AS PROPOSED IS 1407 WHICH IS A 46 CENT DIFFERENCE WHICH IS A 46 CENT DIFFERENCE WHICH GOING SPECIFICALLY PERCENTAGE WHICH GOING SPECIFICALLY PERCENTAGE IS 3.37%. IS 3.37%. AND AN INCREASE ON A $150,000 AND AN INCREASE ON A $150,000 HOME WOULD BE $68.85. HOME WOULD BE $68.85

3.37? Yes. And the Northeast CPI is, I believe, 3.3 at the moment, correct?

I saw 3.3, but I don't know if the new quarter has come out, so.

Okay. So the original proposal was, I believe, over a 10% increase, and the one that we had previously approved was an 8% increase, correct?

So there's different percentages that have been used. We were not able to give that mill rate number until recently when more discussions happened with sticking with the current valuation.

Okay, thank you. Councillor Harriman. Thank you. So one of the reasons we're in the position we're in is because a lot of federal funding's been cut due to shifting priorities at the federal government level. And I wondered, I don't know if you have this number, if you can speak to some of the federal money that's been cut since, you know, in this current budget.

Yeah, I mean, I think more conversationally, I don't have a list in front of me, but we've seen grants be sunset sooner than anticipated and then extended and put back to where they were before. But it caused some ripples. We've seen our title funding come in as flat and or reduced. And if

For what it's worth, you know every year people want their raise and so a funding stays one second superintendent If we can have it quiet in the council chambers, I would appreciate it If you need to talk please out of to the hall or or text each other. Thank you.

Please continue superintendent So the challenge with title funding is those are positional typically and anytime if someone gets to their step or their contracted raise But the funding doesn't go up you have a new shortfall and so we're working hard to manage that component but I TITLE FUNDING IS SOMETHING THAT COMES INTO LEWISTON THAT IS A BIG SUPPORT THAT WE LEAN ON FOR OUR KIDS ESPECIALLY WITH INTERVENTIONS AND SUPPORTING LITERACY AND MATH AND THAT FUNDING HAS BEEN REDUCED THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR WAS ESSENTIALLY FLAT. WE HAD CHALLENGES LAST YEAR WITH THE RELEASE OF THOSE FUNDS. WE'RE HOPING THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN THIS YEAR. LAST YEAR WE WERE WELL INTO JULY BEFORE THE FUNDS WERE AVAILABLE AND TYPICALLY THEY'RE AVAILABLE IN JUNE.

THANK YOU. Further comments from the council? Councillor Martell, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to offer a couple comments. I personally find it a little bit intellectually dishonest to suggest that only $32 million of the budget for the school is funded locally. All the property owners in Lewiston, that are on the hook for that amount also contribute state taxes so they're paying in on the 128.4 million dollars that's being funded by the state as well they're also paying in to every dollar that's funded by the federal government so in one way or another regardless of who takes it out of their pocket the residents of Lewiston are picking up the entire tab for this school budget and I'm not going to be able to support this tonight because, again, I brought this up at the last meeting, but we had multiple members of the school committee in open meeting suggest that in expectation of having this first budget voted down that they were going to withhold cuts. likely could be preserved to in my eyes performatively cut further to bring that down in hopes to get it passed so the public will speak for themselves when they go out to vote on this referendum next week but I just wanted to point out that that our residents pay state federal and local taxes and so wherever the money is coming from lowering the school budget is going to lower taxes for our residents And I would be remiss if I didn't highlight one of the commenters. What they brought up at public comment was that, what are we getting for our money? We are not graduating an impressive number of our children. Stats and scores are embarrassingly low. And Lewiston represents one of the worst school systems in the state, and the state of Maine represents one of the worst school systems in the country. if there's no indication that more money provides a better education for our students so I think maybe a re-evaluation of how that money is spent is warranted and might be more appropriate than continuing to dig in our residents pockets thank you

PLEASE STOP. THANK YOU. YES, SUPERINTENDENT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING?

IF I MAY, I THINK THAT COUNCILOR MARTELL IS RIGHT. WE'RE ALL PAYING SOME PORTION OF ALL THESE COMPONENTS OF TAXES. I'VE BEEN UP FRONT ABOUT THAT FOR MANY YEARS. i do think that the growth that we are seeing is something that i'm hopeful about we do have our challenges and we know that there's a lot of barriers in our community around poverty mental health and many other areas but i will be releasing videos this week sorry a little bit of a plug from a few seniors or several seniors that are going to school for either nothing or with money in their pocket who have come directly through all the barriers you can imagine They're wonderful videos. So while some kids are making it across that finish line, some are. A lot are. And some of those kids that are making it across the finish line, we'll be celebrating them on Friday, are not only making it across the finish line, they're doing so in ways that are very impressive. We want to make sure we get that message out to people.

Councillor Longchamps?

Thank you, Mayor. I wasn't going to say anything about that, but that is the truth. I'm not saying that the budget isn't high, because you know how I feel about it. And I hate that you're cutting from special education, because I feel as though that's just going to continue to grow. But our numbers are down for many reasons, right? students that can't speak English, poverty. There's lots of challenges. And I know a lot of kids that have beat the odds because of their teachers and because of you, Mr. Langless, believing in them. So although I know things aren't perfect, I wish the budget was lower, but you do deserve a lot of credit for... encouraging those kids that don't have that at home. And there are a lot more than I wish there were. So thank you. Thank you.

Councillor Herriman. Thank you. I did want to mention, and I don't know if you have statistics on enrollment growth over the past few years, but most communities in Maine, I would say, are losing, their enrollment in their school system is shrinking, and Lewiston's actually in a unique position where our enrollment is growing, and also our space constraints are, our space is getting constrained because of that. And I wondered if you had, I forget what the percentage growth is over the last few years, but we are growing as a school system and we need to respond to that.

yes the answer is yes over the last several years we have grown this year was more flattened than other years but we are again seeing continued moments we're also looking at the development of apartments that are coming online here very soon and continue to happen We anticipate a portion of those apartments will be moves from other facilities in our community that are, I'll say tired, but also that there'll be availability for new folks to move in, whether or not they'll have kids or not, we don't know yet, but we do have to be prepared for that contingency. We have a number of administrators here who would all tell you that they don't have additional room in their schools. at this point in time we do have some programs that we've invested in that are saving us money even though they're expensive to run those programs are running out of space as a just a touch on something that someone did bring up in this budget is their funds for the the rehabilitation of 287 main street there is not we did share with the school committee in a recent update that we've submitted a five million about five million dollar CDS grant and we've been notified that we will be receiving an award likely once it makes it through appropriations this is the furthest stage we we've made it to and it's looking like a multi-million dollar commitment if it gets there. I don't want to count anything before that moment, but that's, again, that hands-on approach with middle school kids, keep them engaged, that effort that we all talked about at our joint committee meeting. Thank you for your support with with that joint effort. I did I did also hear a question about Tax levy and adjustments I do have some numbers in a chart, but I I don't know what percent of each one makes up which percent if that makes sense as it relates to SCHOOL OR CITY OR COUNTY. SCHOOL OR CITY OR COUNTY. I KNOW THAT THE INCREASE AT THE I KNOW THAT THE INCREASE AT THE CITY PROPOSED AT THE LAST CITY PROPOSED AT THE LAST NUMBER I HAD AND THAT MAY HAVE NUMBER I HAD AND THAT MAY HAVE JUSTED SO I APOLOGIZE CITY JUSTED SO I APOLOGIZE CITY ADMINISTRATOR AND TEAM IF I GET ADMINISTRATOR AND TEAM IF I GET THIS WRONG WAS A 1.6 MILLION THIS WRONG WAS A 1.6 MILLION INCREASE. INCREASE. THE SCHOOL BUDGET 1.3 MILLION THE SCHOOL BUDGET 1.3 MILLION INCREASE AND THE COUNTY BUDGET A INCREASE AND THE COUNTY BUDGET A $903,000 INCREASE. with the numbers that I had latest. So I don't know if that helps answer questions that came from the podium or not.

FOR THE COMMENTS, REALLY APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOU BEING HERE. I RECOGNIZE SOME SCHOOL OFFICIALS IN THE BACK. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT'S HARD TO SEE EVERYONE, BUT APPRECIATE ALL OF SCHOOL COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE HERE AS WELL. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

Councilor, from word four?

Yes.

Word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? No. Word one? Yes. Word two? Yes. Word three? Yes. Motion passed by a vote of six to one.

Thank you both. Thank you.

And so, Mr. Mayor, if I could just possibly just clarify for folks who may be watching, we've issued absentee ballots for the school budget election. We've issued, I can't remember, over 500. I don't remember the number. But by law, folks could not turn those back in until the council voted on the school budget, which you just did. So any folks that are watching, if they have their absentee ballots, they can turn them in any time between now and 8 p.m. on Tuesday, June 9th. So we've asked folks to hold them, that's by state law, and then turn them in any time after tonight.

Okay, and I understand that people will be able to early vote on the school budget starting tomorrow morning?

Right. We people have been coming to our office and taking the ballots home because they can't vote them here and turn them in. But you're right. Starting tomorrow morning. So Wednesday and Thursday, folks can come here to City Hall, vote their school budget and turn it in tomorrow as well. Of course, in addition to the state primary ballot as well.

Okay, thank you. Councilor Nagy, did you have something?

That was the question I was specifically going to ask. A couple of my constituents asked if they could come in and vote, and I was trying to figure out what the framework was. Thank you.

Thank you. Sounds good. We now have item number six. Item number six, public hearing. Yes, if people could please come to the front.

Item number six, public hearing on an application for a new homeless shelter for KK Shelter Corp., doing business as Alter LA Transitional Shelter, 70 Horton Street, in consideration of application. There are two items for requested action. The first item is to conduct a public hearing on the application for a new homeless shelter for KK Shelter Corp., doing business as Alter LA Transitional Shelter, 70 Horton Street.

Thank you, we're gonna give folks a second to get in position here. Councilors, my plan is to hear a presentation from the lovely people before us. We're gonna be able to answer questions, then we're heading to public comment, then come back and then take action on a motion at that time.

uh okay yes would you mind if staff we just kind of orient you to what you have because this role is a little different for you you are going to be serving for this agenda item as a licensing agent which means that your decision is limited to the parameters in the ordinance which we've provided you so i just wanted to clarify that for you so just to orient you the material that you have you have the agenda cover sheet in your book You have, I believe, five different potential motions depending upon the direction that the council wants to take. We just wanted to provide this wording for you as a starting point. Any of that can be changed and amended. And then you have the entire application binder from... the applicant, which includes the application and all of the exhibits, all of the background attachments such as the good neighbor policy and so forth. And then back in your agenda binder, you have the checklist where we reviewed their application to make sure that it has all the requirements in the ordinance. And then you have the information from the planning board verifying the conditional conditional use permit that was issued and then you have the recommendations that are from the three required departments police fire and code so you have all that in your binder and then the last item is the um out of the ordinance itself so i just wanted to clarify for you what you have here and your role as the licensing authority limited to the parameters of the ordinance and the ordinance does require a public hearing which i know after their presentation you'll kick off thank you mr mayor

Yes, thank you. And if something seems amiss, just please correct us, Madam Clerk. Yes, please, if you all four of you could please introduce yourselves and then kick things off.

Good evening. My name is Kevin Bollard. I am the Executive Director of the Alter LA Transitional Shelter.

My name is Linda Scott. I am the Administrative Director for the Alter LA Transitional Shelter.

Good evening. My name is Gabrielle Russell. I'm an architect at Platts Associates.

I'm Dan Moreno, architect with Platts Associates also.

So good evening, thank you for having us here this evening. In September of 2024, our organization was selected as the partner agency to help establish Androscoggin County's first 24-7 low barrier shelter. Since that time, our team has been working tirelessly to turn that vision into reality, securing funding, building partnerships, developing programs, creating policies and procedures, and operating services that have already helped hundreds of our most vulnerable neighbors. Tonight we are seeking approval for our shelter license application with conditions. We recognize that several conditions have been identified as part of the licensing process and we fully support those requirements. They are action items that are already in place or in motion. Approval with conditions provides a practical path forward that allows this critical project to continue progressing while the remaining requirements are finalized. We respectfully ask for your support in moving forward with option one, approval with conditions. This approach allows us to continue making progress while completing the remaining requirements and keeps us on track to deliver a critical community resource that has been more than a year and a half in the making. Tonight is not just about approving a license, it is about continuing the work that the community set in motion in 2024 and taking the next step forward in providing safe shelter, stability, and opportunity for our unhoused community.

Anything further from anyone up there?

No, we are open to any questions that the council currently has In regards to any questions from the community and the council.

Okay. Thank you Yes, there were questions questions from councillors Yes councillor noble So you have it's a night a 49-bed shelter, correct?

We are currently expected to begin with 40 beds with the ability to expand 250 to 49 as needed and then we would come back with another plan to expand to 60 at a later date Okay, so what I'm wondering is what your outreach is gonna look like for the other homeless members of the community That was my first question and my second question is Well

It's a question about the encampments, and I don't know if this is appropriate time to ask it or if I should wait.

I guess, what's your question, then we will determine the appropriateness after you ask your question.

I know. My questions are about outreach, like what you will be doing for outreach, and I want to know if the encampments will be included in that.

So our connection to the unhoused community has been building for the past three years. We've been running the emergency warming center for the past three winter months. So we have a very close connection with the unhoused community. We're also kind of the primary spot for hospital discharges, the county jail discharges, Lewiston and Auburn police drop offs. So currently we are not actively doing any outreach due to us being at full capacity and being the primary focal point for the unhoused community specifically. So we definitely work closely with the PSY workers in the community who come in when we're running the warming center. We had weekly meetings with the PSY workers in the police department. Actually, out of the many calls that we had in regards to the police department, about 25% of them were actually PSY follow-up calls where they were actually coming in just to talk about individuals that were on the streets or that they were actively looking to connect with. So we have a lot of processes in place that are already connecting kind of with the unhoused community out on the streets through the PSY connection process. But we'll also be expanding our outreach services. I did encampment work for over a year with community concepts in the city of Auburn. So we are well versed in that type of work and are looking to really just kind of get established first as the shelter so that we can expand all of those researches and outreach for the community.

Thank you.

I would just like to add a little bit to that. So looking to expand, but I will tell you, we may not be out in the woods and at the encampments, but we have folks calling us every day. We have folks that are on waiting lists to come in. We have folks that are reaching out every day, and we are doing everything that we can to help every person that is reaching out to us. So we may not be on the streets doing outreach, but those that reach out to us, we are definitely prepared to help them and do everything that we can, even if we don't have a bed available. Several folks we just helped in the last week, as a matter of fact, were folks that we didn't have preparation to have room for them, but we found places for them, placement for them, whether it was in a hospital or another shelter. We are doing that work as well. Councilor Longchamps.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for being here. I just had a couple of questions. One, do you still plan to have a warming shelter? I know that you're going to be limited to roughly around 60 beds at some point in the near future. Will you be holding a warming shelter this coming up winter?

Yeah, that's actually been one of the more popular questions is in regards to what will happen with the warming center services once the shelter is established. Obviously, our goal is ultimately the transitional shelter services is our primary focus. But we do realize that there are those triage resources that are needed in our most pressing months throughout the winter. And we've already been in conversations with the city of Lewiston in regards to cooling centers when the temperatures start to spike. So in regards to that aspect, we are definitely fully prepared to have a warming center, cooling center function, which would be at our discretion and ability to open without necessarily needing a certain type of temperature to be reached. It could definitely be opened at any time. So there are obviously additional staffing and funding concerns that have to be addressed. But ultimately the building is structured to where we could have the shelter services on one floor and separate the warming center component on a separate floor. That way that we're not compromising the shelter experience for the guests.

Thank you. My next question was, or is, should I say, From my understanding, there isn't a time limit to when folks enter the shelter, the 24-hour shelter, to when they have to leave. Is that correct? Is there just like no end date?

Yeah, it's tough to say there's no end date. Everyone is basically on a transitional program goal. We have individuals with extreme conditions compared to minor conditions. We have individuals who are elderly at 82 years old to the 20 year old walking in off the street. So ideally, there is no, and with a low barrier program, we can't necessarily time stamp an end date saying you have 90 days and 90 days only to complete this process. But what we can do is we can always be progressively moving them forward and making sure that there's benchmarks and goals that are kind of set forward, kind of like a client plan that's kind of individualized to each person. It's tough to say that the substance abuse challenge and the mental health challenge and the disability mobility challenges can all kind of be addressed, you know, in the same timeframe. So it's not necessarily that there's no timestamp on it. It's really basically gauged off the client challenges that we're experiencing. But the ultimate goal is to always be moving forward and making sure that that bed is something that's used for a transitional resource and not something just to house warm bodies.

Right. So if I'm understanding this correctly, it seems as though a low barrier shelter, you can't have an end date. Is that what you're saying? Or you're just choosing not to?

You can't force program requirements. So that's basically you can't come in and say you have 90 days to complete this goal or you're out the door. So we're not necessarily timestamping anything, but everything is going to have a progressive track attached to it so that we do see progression and that we're kind of checking off all of the boxes. A lot of these individuals, they're starting off with no IDs, no birth certificates. you know so so we're tracking all of that we're seeing what the individual needs are we're putting together different individual client plans based off of those needs and that's really kind of dictating you know the timeline that they'll they'll be in the program without necessarily uh hey you have may 1st as soon as you come in on april 1st you know to figure it all out okay thank you yeah that makes sense um

I know a lot of the individuals that in fact are lucky enough to have a place, a roof over their head, but I definitely think making sure you are setting those goals, being strict about them is very important.

Yeah. And I think one of the, the, the, we, we focus a lot on the low barrier aspect. Um, but we kind of overlooked the transitional. I think one thing that we want to emphasize is, is transitional is our goal. You know, chronic homelessness is one of the biggest challenges facing the Lewiston Auburn community. And I think this type of resource really allows us, um, to get those resources needed, um, to kind of get those individuals into some type of stability, uh, transitional housing or supportive services.

Thank you. My next question, sorry guys, is who are you leaning towards for an organization to help with mental health?

So we're working very closely. We work closely with Andwell. We work closely with Sweetser. All of the individual, Kenny Beck Health. We have case managers coming in routinely. Obviously, there's the new crisis center that's being put together and hopefully opened up. you know this month in june um so so we we have we we have monthly meetings with with the hospitals and and well and sweets are in regards to challenging clients you know individuals that are doing repetitive services you know kind of people that are continually going in and out of the system without any type of exit strategy and really kind of focusing on on those individuals that experiencing crisis but still kind of following through so we don't necessarily have one individual agency as a whole but we are working from a collaborative standpoint with with multiple agencies in the community and then what about substance use for people fighting again very similar you know so we've had individuals that that we've been able to get into detox facilities you know we have some great resources available to us we're connected to many of the recovery houses locally in regards to our collaboration. So we have the ability to pick up the phone, call around to different detoxes, whether they're in Lewiston, Auburn, Bangor, in different parts of the town. And the thing is a lot of the individuals seeking those services really just need kind of that first initial break in the chaos to really be able to see the opportunity ahead of them.

Yeah, I do believe that You know, we do have the individuals that run into an unforeseen circumstance, right, that leave them unhoused. But I think our real challenges isn't just homelessness. It's, unfortunately, drug addiction and mental health. So I would just ask that you heavily equip yourself with those two things and get some really good organizations on board. Because if you really want to combat this, I think that's really, really what you need.

So I just wanted to add a little bit more to that. So I'm going to give you a couple of examples because that's extremely important to us as well. So a lot of the folks that we deal with have long term addiction issues, mental health issues. We see it on a daily basis. We saw it a lot through the warming center. We see it all the time. An example I'm going to give you is a young gentleman that probably a lot of people know that was heavily into addiction for many, many years, has struggled with it for many, many years. Came to our warming center for the last three years. Unfortunately, because of the expectations we have in place, we don't allow folks to use drugs on our facilities. We had to suspend him. But we grew a relationship with him. He ended up being in some very severe troubles and ended up in the hospital. It was very ill. He reached out to one of our staff members. We collaborated together and reached out to Better Health Partners. He asked for help. After all of these years, he said, it's time. And we were able to get him into a recovery house. He asked specifically, can you get me someplace that's not in Lewiston? Because he knows the folks in Lewiston who he did his addiction with. And we were able to do that literally within 48 hours. We are working with those folks. That is a priority to us because we understand as a low barrier shelter that these pieces are extremely important. And that's that's part of the reason why we have the word transitional in our in our title is because we understand that there are so many different pieces in order to mitigate all the issues that we are seeing it's not just a warehouse we're there to transition them into a better place whether that is recovery whether that's to help with mental health stop the substance abuse when they're ready or just get the unfortunate 82 year old person that lost their house their apartment after 30 years because the landlord bought the building and then they can no longer afford it get them into housing again that's that's our goal all those pieces thank you you're welcome

Councillor Nagy. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This first question is going to be, I think, for administration. If we choose option one, approve the application with staff recommended conditions, the license would not actually be issued until the staff recommended conditions were met. Is that correct?

I believe that's correct. Dr. Conner, do you have a different take? No, that's good. Yes, that's been my opinion.

That's correct? Yes, that is correct. Okay, thank you. And then I have a couple of kind of larger questions. If we take option one, at what point do you think that you'll be open for taking in your first folks overnight?

Well, we're already starting the demolition process. So we are working for the demolition. We now have a commercial contractor, Joe Perryman, that we're working with, who is aggressively dedicated to this project. So he is going to make sure that he kind of moves mountains for us to get this place operational as quick as possible. We understand that there's different concerns that have to be addressed in regards to the code. We're trying to prioritize them in order. Obviously, we realize a shower, whether we have four, whether we have six, isn't necessarily dictated off of the ordinance ability or the code ability. So we're just making sure that the safety concerns are addressed first. So I would say definitely within, I'd hate to put too much of a timeline without the knowledge of the architects and their work, because that seems to be a little bit longer of a process than we expected. But definitely well before the winter months, I would say sometime towards the end of the summer months is something that we'd be looking for operational usage for.

It's my understanding that all the architect plans were forwarded to Planning and Code this this Monday. Is that correct?

Yes Friday Monday Monday for us.

Yeah, okay I also was wondering if I'm not asking necessarily if we suggest additional conditions by council, but we're well aware of the fact that this community is a safety valve for the communities around us. We're well aware of the fact that because we have things that answer needs, people are sent here and ultimately end up here, right? we also know that not everybody can fit into one of these shelter models we're looking desperately for solutions in order to figure out ways to to address some of these issues and to have actual data right because you know i've had this situation in my neighborhood where somebody's like oh there's a homeless person on the riverwalk trail and i'm like no that's dave he lives on spring street right But also at the same time, we've had people in crisis situations. There have been 96 calls for service between Oak Street and the police station in the past two months. Sorry, not the police station. That one block. Oak Street on Park and Bates to Ash. 96 calls for service in the past two months. There's only one functioning business down there, and there's a senior home. And so we're dealing with these situations that... there what does economic development look like in an area that that that people are uncomfortable being right and when people have choices they'll move on right we don't know how to answer some of these some of these pieces without reliable information from our from partners and also resources that I'm not quite sure we know where they're at so my question is um I know that you meet regularly with the city, but is there a possibility that we could have some type of standing committee that maybe has a couple of staff members, a couple of people from the council, our public safety folks? So that we can really drill down on some of these issues that we're looking at and see if there's some solutions that aren't avert your eyes or avoid a space. And then also how we hold other communities accountable for being a safety valve or being a place where you can just bring people, unfortunately.

Yeah, no, I think you hit an extremely challenging topic that we've seen a significant spike in this year over the prior years, is the discharges basically kind of to the service providing community. One of our biggest challenges has been the hospitals. They are allowed to discharge to homelessness. So what happens is they get Uber rides, they get taxis to the hospitals for detox, for crisis. They refuse any type of services. Then they kind of refuse to leave the hospital because they're like, I don't know this community. I'm from Franklin County. So then the hospitals end up trespassing them. So then the police get involved. So then the police require them to leave and they have nowhere to take them. So they'll call our facility and say, hey, can we bring Joe over from the hospital? So really what we need to do, and we're looking to address this on a much larger scale. I am a part of the statewide homeless council, and this is a conversation piece on that level as well. But we definitely need to address this either on a larger scale legislative level or have some type of accountability or a real safe discharge policy that prioritizes getting individuals back to their original community and towns instead of just leaving them on the streets. We had one of the police departments leave an individual literally in our parking lot after hours and take off afterwards. So when that individual knocks on our door and says, hey, I'm not from here, we get associated with that individual's presence being here because we're the shelter. We didn't invite that person here, we didn't ask them here, we didn't request the police department to drop them off there, but that's how the process works. So until we really start to address these root causes instead of kind of just pointing that they're normal stigma stereotypes, you know, that kind of fit the mold, we're going to continue to see these challenges and increased in homelessness on our streets.

I was just going to add a little bit to that. So that's extremely important to us as well. We're already having those conversations. We have staff members meeting now regularly with the hospital about discharge. This is a conversation. We had a Zoom meeting last week to have conversation on a statewide level to look at legislation and what can be done. This is not just Lewiston that this is happening to, but it's something that seriously needs to be addressed. It is happening all the time. It's unfortunate. We've gotten phone calls from other county sheriff departments that say we have no place for this person to go. We want to help everybody that we can. We've put money together to get people back to the homes that they want to be back at after they left St. Mary's crisis or other places. We want to make sure that they're comfortable in the place they need to be. We also understand we're all Lewiston residents. I live here. i understand the issues that are going on we understand what's happening we don't want to see that in our community either we're here to make that change and have those conversations i honestly feel that we need to get more people involved and not just elected officials but city administrators from other communities our city administrator sorry brian I APPRECIATE YOU, BUT I'M GOING TO CALL THIS OUT AND IT'S NOT YOU. I THINK OUR CITY ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD BE MEETING WITH THE PORTLAND CITY ADMINISTRATOR AND ASKING THEM, MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO SLIP US A LITTLE BIT OF CASH BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING PEOPLE FROM PREBLE STREET BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ROOM OR YOU'RE JUST SENDING PEOPLE UP HERE. WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN? IT SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING. WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT ON MANY LEVELS AND WE'RE READY TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

THANK YOU. COUNCILOR MARTIN.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you guys for being here tonight, and thank you for the work you're doing in the community. I really appreciate it. I do have some concerns that I don't know if are relevant right now, so I'm going to stick to procedural ones. I looked down at my report and we got a recommendation from the fire department not to issue this license. We got a recommendation from code and enforcement not to issue this license. The police department said that they didn't have a reason to deny it but notated a number of very serious concerns. And then one thing that Councillor Longchamps brought up about length of stay. This is just a question you guys might be able to answer. So if someone ends up staying for 30 days, do they end up gaining the same tenants rights that you would need to evict them through the courts should they choose not to leave? And maybe not abide by your program's rules and standards or do they gain tenancy? And if they wanted to play hardball, would you have to take them to court and evict them?

No, we have guest expectations that make it very clear in regards to our ability to ask individuals to leave the program at any time based off of, you know, any type of infractions or policies that aren't being followed. So we are not, you know, kind of handcuffed to keeping individuals there whether they choose to leave or not if the expectations or requirements are not being met.

Thank you. So if the plan that I'm looking at right now that was in the packet that was submitted, is this the actual floor plan and the architectural drawing that the renovations are going to be made off of?

It's much more extensive now. We have much more that have been sent, and the architects do have more. We have the mechanicals now. We have the plumbing all lined up. We have all of those pieces put in place. Those were the original ones when I first made the binder for you, but they're much more extensive now.

Okay.

May I just add one thing? Some of the drawings that were sent on Friday were because the demolition started yesterday. We have a couple things that we need to verify and update with them.

OK, thank you. So is it do you have all your finalized architectural plans and, you know, blueprints and everything laid out and submitted to code now? If it's not these are they all submitted and ready to go?

The I believe the architectural piece is finalized. It's the mechanical and structural design elements that we needed some information from the demolition to expose you know, to expose hidden conditions.

So just allow me to explain my question is, so even if we do decide to issue this license, so if you just expressed that things had changed from when we got this until just a few days ago, so should something change again during renovations or anything else, under the current city code, that would actually require a whole new application, and you submitted a floor plans and everything else. Do you guys have a building permit right now? You don't.

We have applied for it, but it's not, I think we applied on May 7th, but it hasn't been officially released to us.

Do you know why that case is? Do you know if it's lacking the things it needs to have the permit or?

Yeah, so it was the mechanical electrical plumbing structural drawings that needed some of the information from the demolition that started yesterday. And then we're going to finalize those in the next week or two and issue them.

Thank you. So circling back, like I said, to my procedural concerns, it feels like we're putting the cart before the horse a little bit here. I feel like we've taken our car to the inspection station to get our our yearly sticker. And, you know, the inspector's telling us, we need X, Y, and Z for you to get your sticker, and we're saying, well, we'll take it to the mechanic and we'll get that done, but just throw the sticker on for me real quick. And I just, I don't think that's the way things have worked, and that's not how they've worked in the past on other projects through code. So just looking at the recommendation from the fire department not to approve this and from code not to approve this, PD's list of concerns, the fact that there's not a building permit, the fact that plans have already changed just since we reviewed these documents. So all other issues aside, it feels like we're being asked to issue a license on speculation. It's a really difficult position to be in. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAD A TEMPORARY LICENSE TO OPERATE THE I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAD A TEMPORARY LICENSE TO OPERATE THE WARMING SHELTER. WARMING SHELTER. I'M NOT SURE THAT COVERS I'M NOT SURE THAT COVERS OPERATING AS THE LOW BARRIER OPERATING AS THE LOW BARRIER SHELTER. SHELTER. I HAVE TO CHECK INTO THAT. So I guess at this time, just based on those things. Oh, one other question. So when these, I believe that we're already under the contract that monies have been received. So the contract with the city is to operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Are you guys gonna be operational during renovations and during everything that's done, being done? Yes. Okay, just making sure. so i guess all i'm saying is i i would move at this time to table this for council to review until there's a certificate certificate of occupancy or um at least enough uh progress to where code feels it's it's a little more relevant or gets brought to us with a little bit more certainty um and i'm not trying to unnecessarily delay this but again to to issue a license on speculation puts us in a very difficult situation realize this is a very pressing time-sensitive need but at the same time these regulations are in place for a reason for safety of the guests and you know it's just it's the same process that everyone else comes to the city when they're ready to ask for a business license usually their ducks are all in a row and everything is ready to go and they're ready to turn key and start doing business when they come to ask for their business license it just feels like this is a very uh different approach than that and it just raises some some concerns for me and i would uh i would like to make that formal motion to see if there's a second we have a motion uh did you catch that madam clerk

It is to postpone the hearing on the application until more details are in place, such as the issuance of a building permit and so forth. Is that correct?

Yeah, I wouldn't mind it if it was worded as a certificate of occupancy was issued. Okay, thank you. But I'm open to editing that depending on how my colleagues feel up here about it.

do we have a second for this motion can i ask a question mayor uh yeah sure if you wouldn't mind me asking um if someone can answer counselor uh harriman please wait counselor longchamps please go do you do you have a question about a second because like we have a motion on the floor right now okay no so do we have a second for this you're gonna force me to second Okay, we now have a second. Do we have discussion on the motion to table? Councilor Herriman.

Thank you. This question I believe is for staff, for our clerk. If we went with motion number one in our packet, which is approve the application of staff recommended conditions, does that license get issued immediately or does it get issued once the nine conditions have been met?

If item one is adopted by the council, the license is not issued until all of the conditions are met.

Thank you. I think that maybe the motion that is currently in front of us is similar to that. I think that might be a similar goal that's being asked for. And there may be some misunderstanding as to what these different motions entail. As the clerk said, motion number one here does not issue the license tonight if we vote yes. It means that they have to meet all nine of those requirements that all of the city departments have asked for. So I think that might be a more appropriate motion here.

Discussion on the motion to table, Councilor Nagy?

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a specific question. This is not on the motion at the table. It's about licensing.

Well, right now we're discussing whether we want to table this or not.

It's germane to whether or not I would table or not. Please continue then. Thank you, sir. Just to verify, I believe that we as a municipality of over 10,000 people do not have the ability to place a moratorium on new homeless shelters, correct? That was state law that was passed?

I am I I don't know we did have I'm trying to recall I believe we did have a moratorium on homeless shelters a while ago to allow time for the city to update this ordinance so I believe we did have a moratorium but I can certainly be thank you very much thank you we did that was a couple years ago usually 180 day moratorium to allow time to pause it and then create the ordinance

And I believe the response from Augusta was to make it so that no community of over usually the 10,000 or 20,000 people could actually place a moratorium going forward.

If that's the state law, I'm not familiar with it one way or the other.

Okay. One of the challenges that I have in all of this discussion is that we've been working with the folks here who are local folks for almost four years now in all honesty with the emergency shelter services that are that are also being run if we deny this permit based on that on these conditions for them to come back as opposed to approve it with possibly some both with the recommended conditions and possibly some council positions It's very possible that we could get another application. It's just true. And it's not that this community does not need a low barrier shelter. I know these folks. I know the work that they do. And so I have a level of trust in that.

Councilor Longchamps.

Thank you, Mayor. so i would just this is a diff a little bit of a different process that i've ever seen so it's not that i'm at all against the shelter i think you guys know how i feel about it it's very important but when you have in your binder our code enforcement and all of the other very important folks suggesting that we don't approve this at this time. I just need help understanding why we're here today and why we're not waiting. I personally wanted a workshop. I had asked for it so that we could kind of lay everything out on the table, have discussion, talk with our law enforcement, our fire department, our code, but that didn't happen.

um so i i do want this to happen i want to express that but this is very different and and concerning so if you could help me understand why we're here yeah i mean i obviously like we highlighted originally uh we were selected as the agency uh september 2024 um in regards to the city partnership you know we've committed basically 100 of all of our resources since that time frame to make this a reality. We're operating 24-7 currently. We have partnerships with Maine Housing. We've received funding from the county, the city of Auburn, the city of Lewiston. We're trying to work with Lewiston Housing Authority in regards to solidifying us as a shelter. It's really just indicating to everybody that this process is moving forward in the direction it needs to be. It has support from all of the individuals that have been at the table from the beginning. We're not getting the license without the conditions being met. Everything is on track for the conditions to be met. One of the conditions is that we only have 49 people. We're gonna have 40. One of the conditions is that we provide food off site. We provide food off site. So really those conditions, if you really strip them down, you're probably at four or five. And they really have to do with steps in the process. You have to get a certificate of occupancy. You have to get a building permit. All of these things are already wheels in motion. All of these things already have funding associated to them. The city of Lewiston is providing us money monthly to operate as a shelter and provide shelter services. All we're trying to do is keep this wheel moving forward aggressively so that people realize that the commitment is there, the viability is there, and the sustainability is there. We have long-term funding that we have to maintain after our contracts run out. We have to be set up for ESHAP funding. We have to be set up for GA reimbursement. Yes, all of that doesn't happen until we become a shelter, but to say you're licensed with conditions is much different than saying we're still waiting for a license.

So it boils down to funding.

Yes, funding, partnerships, sustainability, keeping the project moving forward. There's not a lot of grants out there in regards to warming centers. There's a lot of funding out there in regards to shelters. So currently what we're operating now is we're fulfilling all of the expectations of the city. We're taking on the burden and the responsibility for the city. And all we're asking is to get a license approval with conditions so that we can meet those conditions and move this process forward.

And I understand that, but again, if you were sitting up here and the process being very different, I'm sure you'd understand a little more.

Yeah, and we're originally going to be up here in April, and we worked directly with Planning and Code and realized that some things needed to be addressed before we were here in April. We were going to be here in May, and then we worked through with Planning and Codes for some things that needed to be addressed in May. We spoke with Planning and Code. They said that we were put on the agenda. We were under the expectation that those boxes had potentially been checked sufficiently. So we didn't realize that we were on the agenda with a denial for application or a recommendation for denial. So we met with Planning and Code before this process started so that we could proactively address any challenges and concerns. So, we've been at the table, you know, with all of the individuals in this process and are really just trying to keep that ball moving forward so that all of our partners that are involved in this process with us still have that confidence that this is a viable project.

So meeting ordinances, meeting code, doing what we're supposed to do, again, another priority of ours. We want to be good partners with the city. We figure we already are partners with the city in this. And it's extremely important that we move forward as partners. We are meeting these pieces in place. The whole building is not being constructed. There's parts of the building being constructed. We have had a fire inspection for general use assembly. We have fire doors in place. We contract through Cunningham Security to make sure that we have a fire alarm system in place. We have contracted through Natos Refrigeration to make sure that our HVAC system is working appropriately for yearly inspections and filters are cleaned and we've gone through pine tree pest control to make sure those pieces are done. I sent you all an email describing some of those things. Those pieces are extremely important to us. Getting the understanding and the ability to work with Maine Housing for ESHAP funding to tell them that we are on our way the city council believes in us they know that we're going to meet these conditions i can now start working towards eshop funding if i don't get that in place i might have to wait another year it's an important piece to our funding sources we can also we are already doing helping folks with ebt cards getting their ids getting them snap benefits helping them with navigating through getting housing applications working on job applications We have folks that are certified that are working with us already. With having the understanding with MaineCare, we can now become a service provider knowing that we're going to be a fully licensed shelter and now we can build through MaineCare to help with some of the funding sources. Those are all pieces and why we're here asking that we go through this. We completely understand the conditions. We looked at it and said, well, we know we're going to have to do this and we understand it and it may be difficult for everybody and we know it's not the usual way to go. I sat in those seats with you. I sat on the planning board. I understand it's not a normal thing, but we are also the first shelter. in this in the city and we are the only city i believe in the state that requires a business license for a homeless shelter we want to follow the rules we want to do it right we want to fulfill those conditions and we're prepared to thank you um yes councillor chittum thank you mr mayor um

So much progress has been made, I think, where we were two years ago. And look at where you have taken us to today. There is inertia. There is momentum that has been built. And for this council to table this discussion on licensing tonight is going to deal a severe blow to the momentum that has been brought forward. Councillor Martell, analogize this to taking your car in for an inspection and I think he perhaps missed the point the car has been taken in for inspection it's now being driven away you get these things fixed and come back and I'll put your sticker on it I'm not going to inspect you again You get these fixed. These are discrete, objective tasks, recommendations from fire. Fire recommended against issuing a permit because the state fire marshal has not reviewed the plans. They didn't have the plans. Now they have the plans. This is an objective. There is no subjectivity to it at all. You have met this code. We have experts who can interpret that. For us to say, come back when you have all of these things, is going to damage the momentum and the funding ability that the shelter is working so diligently to obtain. I would urge the council not to table this tonight. Once that vote is taken and if the vote is defeated, then I will prepare a motion for consideration.

Thank you. Councillor Herman. Thank you. Just to continue on the theme of progress, I realize this is anecdotal, but I live very close to the shelter. I'm just a couple of streets over. I can actually see the front of the building from my window. And since they've been in that location operating as a warming center, again, it's anecdotal, but the number of incidents that have happened in the general neighborhood have severely decreased. It's been a welcome change, honestly, at least from my perspective. And I think that's because they have been there to respond to the people who are in crisis and the people who need shelter. And they've been doing good things for the neighborhood.

UH YES I MEAN WE HAVE A PATH FORWARD HERE WITH OPTION ONE I URGE THE COUNCIL TO TO VOTE DOWN THIS MOTION UM COUNCILOR UH COUNCILOR ROY THANK YOU UM I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM I KNOW YOUR TEAM I'VE WORKED WITH YOUR TEAM ALONGSIDE OF YOUR TEAM IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND I DO HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM SO THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO PUT OUT THERE

Are we ready to vote on the motion, Councillors? Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Councillor from Ward 4.

This is on the amendment, the motion, right?

The motion at the table. Can you please reread the motion, Madam Clerk?

Yes, absolutely. I apologize. So in the optional motions that were presented for you, it would be item number 4, and it would be to postpone the hearing on the application until a certificate of occupancy has been issued. Councillor from Ward 4? No.

No.

Word five.

No.

Word six. No. Word seven. Yes. Word one. No. Word two. No. Word three. No. Motion failed by a vote of one to six.

We are now back to the main motion. Do we have more questions here? Councilor Nagy.

I'm just proposing.

Sorry, I misspoke. We are now, there's no motion on the table right now.

So I'm just proposing that we would approve with staff conditions and additional conditions by council, and that condition would be specifically and I don't know how to define it exactly at this moment, but some sort of monthly or bimonthly meeting that would be open to council as well as the public. So moving forward, we would be able to have dialogue around and information to the public concerning what's happening with the shelter and just the state of both homelessness and behavioral health in the community as you see it.

Are you making such a motion then?

That would be my motion. Yeah, I would motion for two based on either monthly or bimonthly meetings that would be. Can you pick one, Councillor? I mean, to be determined, I guess. We could do monthly. I'm fine with monthly.

Monthly seems, yeah.

Or I'm fine with bimonthly. How about you folks? I would be comfortable with bimonthly.

I was just about ready to, you know, I was saying you choose, but then I was going to say yes, bimonthly. Do we have a second for this motion? Second. Second by Councilor Longchamps. Yes, Councilor Harriman.

I just wanted to clarify, is this meeting that was proposed under a separate condition, is that separate than the one under number seven, the administrative quarterly review meetings, or is that in addition to the administrative quarterly review meetings?

That would be in addition to there would be something available for all of the council as well as the general public I think the administrative review meetings there are specific things that are discussed in there that maybe are not privy to the general public, but When I'm talking about problems that I'm dealing with in Ward one. I want to be able to make that clear that and find out You know what type of supports are out there as well as

YEAH, ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE SHELTER THAT WE ARE SUPPORTING.

No, I just, I want to confirm that this motion from Councilor Najin is identical to motion one with the single council condition that bi-monthly, every two months, there be a meeting among representatives of council and your board and your administrative staff. And I want to clarify that that is acceptable to you. Yes. Thank you.

WE ARE NOW HEADING TO PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM.

I WISH I COULD STAND HERE AND SAY THAT THE CITY OF LOUISTON DOESN'T NEED THIS. BUT THE HONEST TRUTH IS WE DO. Let me be honest, I served on the Homeless Committee, where we looked at the rules and set up the plan that we're going forward with, along with my councillor, Mike Roy. No one other than Kevin and his group came forward for any consideration on taking this project on. And yes, they were heavily involved with the committee. To that point, Councillor Roy, I ask when it comes time to make a formal vote if you would excuse yourself. because like me, we were both there working with them, and I don't want anyone to say that Kevin got a free vote. I would ask the same of former counselor Gallant for the same reason. The homeless crisis isn't something that's going to go away, and nobody has a magic wand to make it happen. There are many reasons why someone ends up there, and for each of those reasons, there has to be a different answer. Yes, we have many more homeless here, Some of it's because there's a possible shelter. But some of it's also because most of the services that these people need are here in Lewiston. They aren't set up in Wales or Green or Lisbon or Monmouth, but they're here. So that's where the people travel to or be sent to. And then as Kevin and his group touched on, you have the example of someone being sent down here from, for example, Bangor or up from Portland to St. Mary's to CMMC, and they're discharged, but they're not discharged back to their home community. They're discharged here. where they have no connections. And the only thing they know is, hey, we were handed a piece of paper that said there's a shelter here. Let's go there. I STAND HERE AND ASK YOU TO APPROVE THIS THROUGH THE MOTION A ALONG WITH THE CONDITION THAT JOSH PUT OUT THERE FOR A MEETING BIMONTHLY WITH THE GROUP AND THE PUBLIC TO BE INVOLVED AS WELL. BECAUSE I LEARNED A LOT SITTING ON THAT COMMITTEE. IT WAS A GOOD COMMITTEE. AND I THANK YOU GUYS ALL FOR YOUR TIME. GOOD LUCK.

FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT?

Hi, Adam Jones again, Ward 2. I just wanted to quickly speak and commend Councillor Martell for bringing up some very valid points. I definitely think the city needs this. I think that all the work that's been put into this and moving it forward is extremely important. However, as a code professional myself for another municipality and being in the code industry, I also can recognize the concerns of Councillor Martell. As an individual that also reviews and approves licenses such as this for another municipality, I think there's a lot of weight to be had as far as looking at making sure all the details match and everything line up. You know, I think Lewiston had found themselves in a situation previously, I know it's not the same, but for something that didn't have a certificate of occupancy and was condemned was also used in other means to elect somebody. And look where that got us. So the way I apply the code to this and Councilor Martel's concerns, I think has a lot of weight to it. I think that for Councilor and Ward 1, you bring up a valid point of taking away the steam, the momentum, and we don't want to do that here. I think these folks have really great purpose. I think that they're doing great work in the community. The city really needs it. I don't think that's really a question here. But I also have to call out the fact that there are recommendations of certain agencies that the city imports to make the critical decisions on what's acceptable by the code. And I just can't help but recognize that the fire department, the police department and code officials have all made very important recommendations here. So I really think that you should consider those as well. Again, I don't think it's. It's anything to speak of, you know, is this gonna work? Is it not gonna work? We know that this is necessary and it's gonna work. They've put in the work, they have the proof, they've come far, but I also think from a licensing standpoint, that's why you guys are here tonight. It's for licensing. And part of that application, it's very important to make sure everything on that is accurate and complete. And when I review applications, whether it's a license or a building permit, if that's not complete, we have to get all of those conditions met. So I think it's important to recognize Councillor Martell's points on this. I don't think you're wrong in approaching it that way, but I also think it's important that this council recognizes the hard work of this great organization. So you're definitely in a tough spot right now. I do think having some additional conditions is important, but I definitely think that there should be weight given to all of those departments that weighed in on this license and how to meet those code standards. Thank you.

I AM A LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER AND HAVE ALSO WORKED IN HOMELESS SERVICES FOR OVER A DECADE. AND I HAVE ALSO PARTICIPATED IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING A SHELTER BEFORE. THE WAY THAT OUR SHELTER FUNDING OPERATES IN THE STATE OF MAINE IS VERY HAPHAZARD AND COMPLICATED AND UNNECESSARILY SO. And as a result of that, shelter programs need to fund a building, build a building, and fund a program without having anything baked into their budget. And so oftentimes what ends up happening or what would happen in this situation is that dollars would need to be expended that don't exist in order to build a building. And then the building would sit empty until the process is able to continue until the COUNCIL IS ABLE TO SPEAK ON IT AND THE LICENSE IS ABLE TO BE REVIEWED. WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS EMERGENCY OF UNSHELTERED FOLKS IN OUR COMMUNITY NOT GETTING ACCESS TO THE SERVICES THEY NEED, HAVING AN EXPEDITED PROCESS AND BEING MINDFUL ABOUT THOSE PIECES IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. I've worked with many of the folks that work at Alter, and they're incredible folks that are doing really incredible work with really not a whole ton of resources. And so I implore council to really think thoughtfully about the impact that the shelter is going to have on our community and how incredibly important it is and necessary for our community. Thank you.

Hi again, Lisa Jones, Ward 2. If I'm understanding what's going on correctly, you are maybe approving a license for the shelter. They've provided you with documents. All of the paid employees of the city who are experts in their respective areas have weighed in. This council has leaned heavily on wanting experts to weigh in. I'm thinking specifically of the Church and Safe Injection and those experts. Sorry, my hands are in my pockets. Code has said no. Fire has said no. Police has said quite a bit. Police has said this is a great crew, but tap the brakes. This council needs to put ideology aside and think of how they would treat any business. We don't just say, trust me, bro, and approve a license. If I go get my car inspected and I need to get it repaired, I have to get it repaired. They do inspect it again, David, unless they do the work. You don't drive away and come back another day and say, oh, I got it done. Give me my sticker now. That's not how it goes. Don't just let this crew say, trust me, bro, and give them a license. If code says no and fire says no, this shouldn't even be a debate.

Further public comment? Back to the council. Councillor Herriman.

Thank you. I guess this is a question for, I think, for our city clerk. Does the motion that's currently in front of us incorporate the requirements that the various departments of the city have placed on this before the license is issued?

Yes. So before you is option two, which is identical to option one with the addition of number ten at the bottom, which is any city council conditions that the council wants to attach, which is the bimonthly meeting. So item two before you incorporates, to the best of my knowledge, all of the recommendations from the departments regarding sign up from the fire marshal's office, the code enforcement, etc..

OK, THANKS.

COUNSELOR LONGCHAMPS.

THANK YOU, MAYOR.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR EXPLAINING THAT TO ME. IT WAS A BIT CONCERNING AND DIFFICULT. I WANT TO RECOGNIZE COUNSELOR MARTELL FOR WANTING TO FOLLOW PROCEDURE. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT. WHY HAVE I LOST TRAIN OF THOUGHT? BECAUSE YOU KEPT GOING BY ME, MR. MAYOR. Oh, yes. I would just like to, I do understand now your reasoning for being here before all of the other things happen. Basically funding reasons and to make sure that certain organizations realize that council stands behind you and wants this to happen. And I would agree to that. But I would just like to strongly suggest that, and I don't know how you could put this in there or if it's even possible, but when different counties and cities and towns call you and say, hey, we have this gentleman or woman and we need to drop her off to you because there's no other place to go. i don't think that's really accurate i think what happens is we have become this place where other towns and cities can just say hey let's just make this a lewiston problem and i don't think that's fair to us and i don't think it's fair if you only have 49 or 60 beds to refuse someone that's actually from lewiston because you're accepting someone from bangor And I would hope that you guys would do the right thing and say, no, no, we can't do it. And when the hospital drops off an individual or Uber is an individual to the shelter, you find out where they're from. You make sure there's someplace for them to go and you Uber them back. So you're not refusing any of our residents.

Yeah, and I completely agree, and I think that's something we'd have to work with with the police department as well.

I think you just need to say no.

Because when we look, I think we look at it as, you know, we're partners with the city. The police department is a taxpayer entity, you know, that's partners, you know, that works for the city. So I think we felt like we had an obligation to kind of work with the police department and take that burden of responsibility off of their plates because they're really just the median in between the hospitals and the shelter or the resources. But yes, I think more critical conversations need to be had in regard to processes and expectations. And if the expectation is to try to initially get the individual back to their hometown, then we would need the police department to work with us.

It's unlikely for the police department to be able to drive someone towns away. So if they get dropped off to you, I think it is important that you simply set a standard and let people know that we're not going to be that place that you just drop people off. Because we need to take care of our own people too.

First. And just to follow up, we have Uber drivers who literally are like, I'm not going back to Bangor with this person. So they're in a Johnny, they have no shoes, it might be raining out, and they're like, I am leaving this person somewhere here.

I understand that, but then you call another Uber. Thank you.

Councillor Nagy.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think, yes, it's important to show our commitment to our partners in the low barrier shelter. I also just want to say that the bros I'm trusting to issue this license are actually the professionals here at the city. So ultimately, if you're not able to meet these requirements, you're not going to get the license. That's simply the fact. I also think that when we talk about some of these more complex issues, there's funding mechanisms that we have to talk about when we're left with folks from other counties, whose county commission is paying right uh when we're left with folks rather because yes we do want to send people uh back to where they have supports but in some cases i mean you've seen mechanic falls uh downtown at one o'clock in the morning uh it's not necessarily the most supportive environment um and so i think you know we we need to make sure you know in the past and i've said this before you know there's um we've been quoted sometimes as being the city with the biggest heart we're certainly not the city with the biggest paycheck and ultimately all of these services cost money and and the folks in other communities who continue to use us as a a a release valve have to be held accountable financially

We have come a long way since the moratorium, and I really appreciate your tenacity. Thank you all so much. Councillor Martell. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Along the lines of what Councillor Longchamp said, you guys are required to meet certain requirements because it's a low barrier shelter. You've got the funding that comes with that and the stipulations that come with it. Are you allowed to say no to someone because they're not from Lewiston? Are you even allowed to do that?

We can't be discretionary based off of their previous location. So that is not something that I am aware that we can put a restriction on, but it's definitely something we're more than willing to talk with main housing on in regards to those procedures.

Also, we do have conversations with these folks that are coming to us. If they tell us, if they, we have conversations and they want to, a lot of them don't want to be here, to be quite honest with you. They want to go back to their hometown. So, and we work towards getting them where they need to be. And if we're at capacity, we will say no, because we don't have room. But just to outright say no is difficult with a low barrier shelter. But we do want to prioritize Lewiston residents. We understand what the Lewiston police are saying in their memo completely.

So what does that prioritization look like? If you've got one bed available and there's someone here that has been in Lewiston for 10 years and someone that just got dropped off from Bangor, what does that prioritization look like?

Well, in regards to we would, anyone in Lewiston that is basically potentially on our waiting list and actively in the area, we're probably engaging with them on a certain level as well. So they would become our first priority. The one aspect that we don't have control over that becomes the X factor is when the police departments drop individuals off. When the hospitals Uber people over to us, when the county jails release individuals, those are kind of the X factors that we're trying to work around and have better processes in place to address those challenges. But that also stems from the agencies that are involved in that process as well need to be at the table for those conversations.

Thank you. And I understand that. I guess one of my concerns was when this was first coming up and when this was first being proposed, I think there was a lot of worry. I shared this worry. I know a lot of people in the community did. That this would end up acting as a homing beacon for people with need and in struggle and I think that we were told that that wouldn't be the case. I think we were assured that that wouldn't be the case and that this shelter would work to alleviate the issues that already existed here in Lewiston and wouldn't serve as a draw. And now it seems like that's the very complaint that we're hearing about is the fact that everyone knows that Lewiston now has either a warming shelter or a low barrier, a warming center or a low barrier shelter that they are sending their people here in Ubers and the PD is dropping people off to you out of the hospital and you've got people in Johnny's and stuff. I guess I'm just trying to square the circle of the reasons that were provided. The issues that this was supposed to alleviate seem to have gotten worse in just the 12 months or 18 months that we've been working on this. I don't know anybody else goes down Park Street or downtown really anywhere encampments seem to have gotten more numerous there seems to be an abundance of unhoused people along our streets despite the fact that you're at capacity and I and I appreciate that but so if we if you don't have the capacity to say no under your funding regulations and requirements And it does seem that this is acting as a beacon or a draw for individuals in these situations. Whether you're at capacity or not, these people are now in our community and our taxpayers are picking up the funding for that and dealing with the plight and the effect that it has on economic development that I think Councilor Nagin mentioned, not a lot going down on Park Street right now. And so if we were to try to ask You know businesses to come in or investments and when they go drive drive the the streets in the areas and they see what currently exists there I I think that would act as a very serious deterrent and and Lewiston is in desperate need of adding to its tax base right now so Even the best delayed plans and the best of intentions don't always end with the same results that we were hoping for. And so I would just, as much good as you're doing, and while I appreciate the moralistic value of this, the simple fact that we can't deny is that it It does seem, since this has opened up and become in progress, that the issues that it was supposed to alleviate almost across the board have gotten worse. I know Councillor Herriman's anecdotal Test testimony was that he's seen a drop in incidents and I don't know if he said crime but in that area my Excuse me My example isn't anecdotal It's a report from the police department that says calls for service in that area have actually gone up by over 3,200 percent In the five months that you guys have been operational over there over last year at that same period of time so That's not anecdotal and I think that's concerning. I think they also noted that a lot of the individuals that they're running into are from out of town or potentially out of state and many of them have extensive and dangerous and violent criminal records and because a low barrier shelter can't exclude people, for some of those reasons those are the people that are being sent into our community whether they end up in the shelter or out on the streets because you're at capacity they're now within our community and around our residents and our business owners and um i think i would be remiss if if we don't point that out and at least uh attempt to address it so Trying to turn people away because they're not from Lewiston doesn't sound like something that's within your power. So suggesting that you're going to prioritize or that that's something you can do, I don't know how you do that. So that's why I'm curious about the actual implementation when your funding requires you not to do that. So it's a difficult circle to square.

Yeah, no, you threw a lot in there, so I'll try to piece it apart here. I think your concerns are valid. I think your concerns are potentially directed towards the wrong starting point. I think the hospitals, the police department, like I said, we prioritize the individuals who we are actively engaged with regularly, which are all Lewiston Auburn residents. What we cannot control is when the police department shows up in our parking lot and says, this individual is now on our streets in Lewiston, but they have no ability to get back to Franklin County. So because they were discharged from the hospital into homelessness and they are now sitting on the streets, there's times officers drive by individuals and they just see them actively on the streets with nowhere to go. So they offer them the ability to bring them over to the shelter service. So if you don't want them bringing people over to our organization that are out of this community, then that's conversations we need to have at that level. I think you're drastically minimizing the discharge to homelessness challenge that we have at the hospitals. That is not something we are creating. That is not something we are encouraging. That is something that we are actually addressing. And one thing you forgot to highlight during the challenges is we've also housed, helped individuals get housed, 32 individuals since the start of the warming center, 37 now. So at a cost of over $35,000 per year as far as on your services and communal resources for homelessness, that alone is over a million dollar savings. But that was unfortunately not mentioned. The three thousand and something percent increase in police calls you're comparing that to a funeral parlor that was closed The highest presence there was dead bodies So yes that the activity there from a police presence is going to be drastically minimalized What was also not mentioned out of those three thousand and something percent call increase? 25% of those calls were proactive police follow-ups where we were working with PSY workers and a local police agent and who would come in and address all of the individuals that they're seeing on the streets to try to proactively address those challenges. So yes, out of those calls, we are seeing a significant increase in the individuals coming to our community, but they are not coming to our community because they are aware of Cadence Kitchen or Alter LA Low Barrier Shelter. They're ending up at the hospitals and the hospitals give them a sheet with our shelter being at the top of that resource. So the first place they're gonna ask to go is the first place that's on that list. Two and a half percent of our police calls were violent in nature. We had four assaults over six months. We're open over 3,000 hours, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I would encourage you to compare those numbers to the activity that was minimalized or limited on the streets when we had 105 individuals per 24 hours in our facility. One of the biggest challenges is when we transitioned to 40 units instead of 100 units, we actually heard the outcry from the community and the police department because all of these individuals were now back on the street and there was a visual presence of them being there. so our facility actually negated the challenges that the community normally sees and the thing that we are is we are a transitional shelter so we're taking individuals and transitioning them into housing which is the only way you're going to reduce the number of individuals that are currently on the streets counselor Herman did you have something no I'm all set now uh further questions comments from counselors

Yes, Councillor Longchamps.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for that explanation. I would just like to say publicly, again, the reality is the state needs to do better. We need more mental health hospitals where people can stay short term, long term. There are so many people that are not addressing their mental health. There are so many people that are addicted to drugs. That's really where the problem lies. The reality is, is even if you had 200 beds, you would only have about 40 people staying there during this time of the year. Because the truth is, is they would be back out on the street where there's zero consequence or no one watching over them, right? So they're able to use drugs and act like fools at times, to be honest. But until the state and our country get better with addressing the mental health, having more hospitals, i don't think we have any right now really where you can stay long term or a relative can sign someone in and we really start addressing the drug epidemic that we have we're pretty much screwed so that's just what i want to share

uh counselor nai jean um i i thank you mr mayor i i would i would second that on on a great level i mean we're currently experiencing um issues where it's now i think three years that we've had one person living on main street and we don't have any any way to compel that person to receive assistance. It's like literally watching a horror movie. This is a human being. When we talk about empathy and we talk about care for people in our community, if we don't have resources and we don't have tools in order to answer some of these challenges, or we're told that this is the decision that a person is making that is capable, when it's clear that they're not, then none of this gets better. And so behavioral health, mental health, drug issues, they're all humongous in this community. We are the receptacle of a lot of challenges that other communities get to pass on to us.

uh counselors i believe we've uh yes counselor roy um i'm just gonna say that i will recruit recuse myself from this vote

I don't think that's necessary, but I guess it's your choice. Just for the public's benefit, conflict of interest is very narrowly defined here as receiving direct monetary remuneration, and that's not what's happened here. But yes, it's up to you. Councillors, I think we're ready to vote. Anything further? Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Thank you. And just for clarification, you were voting on option number two in the book with the additional council condition of a bimonthly meeting is held by the shelter, whether it be staff and their board members, and that it be open to city councilors and the public to discuss issues and programs of the shelter. Councilor from word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? No. Word one? Yes. Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. And Mr. Mayor? Yes. Motion passed by a vote of 6 to 1.

Thank you very much. Madam Clerk, we're just getting warmed up. Item number 7.

item number seven public hearing for approval of an outdoor entertainment permit for the liberty festival requested action to conduct a public hearing on an application for an outdoor entertainment event for the liberty festival event and to grant a permit for an outdoor entertainment event as required by the city code of ordinances chapter 10 article 1 section 10-3 to the liberty festival organization for outdoor music concerts for the festival to be held at veterans memorial park on july 2nd through 7th contingent upon positive recommendations from the police department fire department code health officer and land use inspector regarding compliance with all regulations and compliance with all city ordinances i have a motion to move counselor second second by counselor harriman discussion public comment back to the council madam clerk please call the vote council from word four Yes, word five. Oh, I'm sorry word six. Yes word seven. Yes word one. Yes word two. Yes word three. Yes And mr. Bear. Yes motion passed by vote of seven to zero I'm number eight. I don't number eight public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article 11 District regulations for changes.

Is that item number eight? Are you sorry for eight?

Yeah That page is stuck together, sorry about that. Item number eight, public hearing for approval of an outdoor entertainment permit for an outdoor music concert in Samard Payne Memorial Park. Requested action to conduct a public hearing on an application for an outdoor entertainment event for the Rare Breed Concert and to grant a permit for an outdoor entertainment event as required by the City Code of Ordinances, Chapter 10, Article 1, Section 10-3, to Northeast Apostolic Ministries for an outdoor music concert to be held at Samard Payne Memorial Park on July 31st, contingent upon positive recommendations from the Police Department, Fire Department, and Code Health Officer and Land Use Inspector regarding compliance with all regulations and compliance with all City Ordinances.

MOTION, PLEASE. MOVED. COUNCILOR CHINNAM, SIGNED BY COUNCILOR NAJING. I JUST WANTED TO QUICKLY SAY, VERY RARELY AM I ABLE TO CORRECT YOU, MADAM CLERK. PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM.

uh madam clerk please uh back to the council madam clerk please call the vote counselor from ward four yes word five i'm sorry word six yes word seven yes word one yes word two yes word three yes and mr mayor yes thank you very much madam clerk i'm glad you're here item number nine number nine public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article 11 district regulations for changes to the no name pond conservation overlay district to clarify buffer language requested action excuse me that the proposed amendments to appendix a of the code of ordinances zoning and land use code article 11 district regulations for changes to the no-name pond conservation overlay district to clarify buffer language receive first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regularly scheduled city council meeting i have a motion please so moved council martel

Second. Second by Councilor Nagy. Dr. Conner, please kick us off.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and counselors. As you may recall, we brought this to you a few meetings ago. It was tabled. I believe you received some information from an abutter and you wanted time to review that. We've had quite a few budget meetings since then, and it's been delayed. We received at the last meeting, we asked for a continuation based off some language that we received a recommendation from Councilor Chittum. After reviewing it, I sent a memo in the packet tonight We asked city attorney legal counsel to review it. And at the end of the night, staff stands by the planning board's recommendation. Our request to you tonight is to either let us know the direction either by voting for what the recommendation is from the planning board or vote it down and send it back to the planning board so that they can review it again. So that's where we're at tonight.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to read the statement of purpose to the No Name Pond Conservation Overlay District. The purpose of the No Name Pond Conservation Overlay District is to protect the water quality of No Name Pond by controlling the discharge of surface runoff into the lake, thereby limiting nutrient loading to levels which will not result in substantial degradation of the pond's water quality. Removing protections from waterways whether they are natural or man-made Does the exact opposite of the mission of the statement of purpose of this ordinance? the amendment which I have submitted to The code office was reviewed by an attorney to my knowledge. He has no knowledge of environmental engineering water quality and the attorneys memo indicates that if a buffer restriction is waived simply because an applicant requires a permit it amounts as a practical matter to a reduction in the protections created by the no disturbance buffer that simply is not true the proposed amendment would require a more stringent activity in the buffer zone than currently exists in the code. It would require that any soil disturbance in the buffer zone comply with DEP's well established best management practices to limit the amount of runoff and nutrient loading to the pond. The attorney goes on to say that the administrative complexity of creating this permit process and the permit by rule of the best management practices would be exceptionally difficult. That can easily be addressed by not requiring a permit by rule at all, by simply passing an ordinance that says if you disturb soil within the buffer zone, you will comply with BMP. So that eliminates the argument that there is an extraordinary administrative complexity here. As an engineer, As someone who has devoted the majority of my life to protecting the quality of no-name pond, I think that eliminating the requirement for buffers around any waterway feeding the pond is a step backwards. I have a language which I have prepared and will be happy to submit, but I would urge the council to reject the language changes that have been proposed.

Councillor Chittenden, are you proposing an amendment at this time or?

I guess that would be in order, yes. My amendment would be to remove the language that was approved by the Planning Board, retain the language that exists in the code today, and add a Section 7 to the No Name Pond Protection Conservation Overlay District, which is worded, any work resulting in soil disturbance within the buffers shall comply with the requirements of the Maine Stormwater Best Management Practices Manual, Volume 3, Best Management Practice Technical Design Manual, published by the Maine DEP. I have that language, Madam Clerk, so that you don't have to take it down verbatim.

Do you have a second, Councillor Nagy? I have a question. I'll second for discussion. Okay, we now have an amendment on the floor. Did you catch all that, Madam Clerk?

I did. It's to remove the proposed language, to keep the current language, and to add the Section 7 as read by Councillor Chittim.

Okay, thank you. Back to you, Councillor Nagy.

Okay, so just real quick, the No Name Pond Conservation Overlay District, I don't understand what the water quality was 1990. I don't understand what it is today. And so you're proposing a series of changes. I also don't completely understand what this is proposing either, with the exception of the fact that one house will get built. Now, normally, I am a YIMBY. I'm always going to be a YIMBY. If somebody says, do you want a hotel in your backyard? I'm going to say, yes, I want a hotel in my backyard because property values in the city are important. We need development. I think the challenge that I have is that when we're talking about conservation districts, I have a challenge in saying that we should just allow everything. My position here is I don't know enough about what you just said Which is like literally changing the entire like the entire zoning and land use code at least a portion of it right like we're adding a whole new new piece and so I would ask that We either workshop this or we put it, we again suspend a decision, a snap decision right now. I've also been reached out to by a couple of folks that belong to the HOA and they're very concerned. And I also am aware of the fact that there's somebody who's been trying to develop this land for quite a while. And I think we have to come to a healthy decision that protects the watershed.

that would be my argument uh and i don't know enough right now about what you've said um to make a snap decision that's all uh counselors i really we have some hands raised but is there anything uh counselor chin was there anything you'd like to say and yes thank you for that thank you councillor nejean the amendment that i proposed would not prohibit development of the lot

This entire exercise was brought forward because there is an undeveloped lot in a previously approved subdivision. It was thought that the development of this lot would run counter to the language that exists in the code today. the removal of the proposed changes and the addition of the language that I've read, which essentially says, if you're going to work in these delicate areas, do no harm, or do as little harm as possible. It still allows the development of the single family dwelling in Waters Edge Drive. And it strengthens the protection of the pond by requiring that anybody who works within 50 feet of any of these drainage ways uses Engineering practices that have been adopted by the main Department of Environmental Protection designed to reduce runoff Nutrient loading erosion, etc That is absent from the code now this this strengthens it and it strengthens the water quality while still allowing the development of the house That raised this issue in the first place Chancellor Herman

Thank you. So I like the amendment that Councilor Chittum has put forward, but I just wonder if this should go back to the planning board with that, asking them to consider this language. I don't know if anyone has thoughts to that. Councilor Longchamps.

I would like to ask our director of code his opinion on this change.

Thank you. So the memo that is before you from me was written prior to the email that we received from Councilor Chittum, who has some great ideas. So we were working with our staff this morning. And what we came to the conclusion was that we agree with that addition of seven. But what we don't know the mechanics of that we're still trying to figure out is, Can you make that amendment as a vote as a council and have it go forward? Or does it need to go back to the Planning Board because it was a recommendation from the Planning Board? That's the part that that I'm unfamiliar with but we do we do agree that the original language would be clarified with the addition of item number seven So should we maybe take this up at a different time after you go to the Planning Board?

Go back to the Planning Board. I mean What would be your suggestion?

I personally, if I think of it logically, the planning board makes a recommendation. It's up to this body here to make the final decision.

Thank you.

Councilor Nguyen, yes. So that's correct. We have the ability to either accept or reject a recommendation from the planning board as the governing body for the city. I do think it would be good practice in all honesty to go back to the planning board simply because we do want to have a working relationship with them. also think that I have some interest in finding out if the LEA or Lake stewards of Maine have any opinions on any of this but I don't want to belabor a point either way I think just for good practice we should probably go back to the planning board would be my opinion saying that this is our recommendation do you accept it and and then we could approve it afterwards that would be my opinion

Councilor Chittum, yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I don't have any problem with that. I do want to verify that the interpretation of the Code Department is that the current language does not preclude the development of that lot. Is that correct?

the current language as written the way we interpret it is yes it would prevent it unless you had the the number seven that you want to add to it okay um it is ambiguous we it's an interpretation so if we if we chose to issue the permit um it would be something that could be brought up to uh board of appeals for obvious reasons if if somebody interprets it different

Yeah, I respectfully disagree. I think the definition of buffer in this overlay district limits the activity within that buffer only to forbidding fertilizer and forbidding the creation of new lawns and gardens.

So that's in paragraph or subparagraph G, I believe, all of those restrictions. But in paragraph F right above it, it says that I believe it's no buildings or structures or use of the land. It will require those buffers. So the way we interpret that is a driveway would be a use of the land. And therefore, it cannot be built within that buffer. And then letter G goes on or paragraph G goes on to say all of the restrictions and requirements for everything outside of that buffer.

All right. I see your interpretation. I disagree with it, but I understand how you can come to that conclusion. Rather than belabor this point, I would like not to hold up the development of this lot any longer than necessary. I would propose that this council adopt the recommendation, my motion, and that we send it back for, not ratification, but out of a courtesy. As you point out, Councilman Nagin, we are the legislative body. We do have the authority to accept or reject recommendations from subsidiary boards. As a courtesy, I would send it back to them. I would be happy to go to the planning board meeting and put forth my arguments for why this is a better solution to the problem than was proposed initially. But I would urge the council tonight to adopt the motion as amended.

We're now heading to public comment for this agenda item.

Dan Bernier, Ward 6. In place for over 25 years, I object to any change. In this case, the city takes stormwater and puts it across private property. That's what's really causing this lot to be undeveloped. All these documents you do have, I'm just reading from them. The president of the No Name Pond Association has an objection to the change. No Name Pond, he wrote to the board, he says this is a simple technical issue, confused and complicated by city staff. BMP practices strengthens the district ordinance. Eliminating a buffer zone to all of those will open the door to mismanagement of the drainage wave facilities potentially. I do not see any problem with the current buffer definition within the current buffer zone definition also does not improperly not imply that man-made waterways cannot be maintained there's one thing the planning board did mention again in the packet they try to cross off to open storm water drainage courses that's really what we're talking about treating water like it's not water from John Connery wrote basically Council Chittum proposed retaining original 50-foot buffer language around open stormwater drainage courses adding the main Department of Environmental Protection best management practices, which we've discussed is basically the stand for the entire state Staff forwarded the concept to the city Ben Lurd noted that the city would need to highly detail the BMPs, basically take care of all this. That's what they do. This isn't a flaw. This isn't sufficient to fix a flaw. It's an intent change. It's not an editorial. BMP layer of the ordinance will create unnecessary administrative burden, which we've proven is not really the case. From what Mr. Chittum says, I do agree with the John, that this will limit the property being developed. But if you look at the property, if you look at it today, the council, no zoning board would allow this. The driveway is not even big enough to meet city ordinance. So you don't even have access. So the neighborhood itself will be burdened by this change. uh michael murcott opposed citing that he isn't he's not confident we're protecting the pond in the same vein and intent the original language and he would like to hear from the individuals who served in the city years ago and with this language and it's been in place for 25 years so i can't imagine why all of a sudden there needs to be a change in al kern or the president not used names but the president of the annoying pond association who is an environmental engineer himself was very adamant that This is the status quo. We've been living in the environment. It's the way it is. Why would we make a change? So one would have to question why it was developed or why it's been configured multiple ways, and now they're coming to you now to develop it because no one else could. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Further public comment for this agenda item?

She should be speaking what she's got about here.

Okay.

Public comment is, hearing that, public comment is now closed. Back to the council. Director Conner, is there anything further you'd like to add at this point?

No, mr. Mayor.

Okay. Thank you Madam clerk, can you please call the vote for the can you read the amendment and then call the vote?

Sure The amendment before you has three parts one is to remove the proposed language Two is to keep the current language and three is to add section seven as read by councillor Chittum councillor from Ward four

I'm quite confused right now, to be honest with you.

So you have the main motion in your book, which is item number nine, which is the main motion in the book to amend the No Name Pond Conservation Overlay District. However, an amendment was proposed by Councilor Chittenden, seconded by Councilor Nagy, and there's three aspects to that amendment. One is to remove or negate the proposed language. Two is to keep the current language in the book, and you'll see the strikeout and underline. So two is to keep the current language, and three is to add a new Section 7 to the No Name Pond Protection Overlay District, and the wording was read by Councillor Chenoweth.

ONE SECOND BEFORE WE VOTE.

I FEEL THAT THE AMENDMENT IS A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE. I DO. IT IS A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE. I, AGAIN, WOULD FEEL MORE CONFIDENT IF WE PUT THIS BACK TO THE PLANNING BOARD, GIVE US A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO LOOK AT THIS. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF THIS WORK. I DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW ANY OF THAT UNTIL TONIGHT, TO BE HONEST. And I want to respect the work that you've put in, absolutely, 100%. And I'm sure from what I'm hearing from Planning & Code, they're pretty happy with it. But I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it right now. AND SO AGAIN, I WOULD FAVOR IT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE. TO ME, ANYWAYS.

THANK YOU, COUNSELOR NAJING. COUNSELOR LONGCHAMPS, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING?

Yes, Mayor. I would second that. I think it should go back to the Planning Board. So can we figure out how to vote on that?

We're currently voting on or trying to vote on an amendment and then there will be a possibility to to decline it and then that would head to the planning board.

Yes, Councilor Harriman. Thank you. I guess I wonder if there is consensus up here if it might be possible to withdraw the amendment and make a new one that basically adopts these changes or recommends these changes and asks the planning board to weigh in as well.

Thank you, Councillor Herman. If we're going to withdraw the amendment, it would require the people who moved it and then seconded it to do that. It would require both of them to agree, correct, Madam Clerk? Yeah. I don't see that happening. I just would like to vote on the amendment at this point. Yes, please continue, Madam Clerk.

Not to add confusion, because that's not my goal here, but it would be in order for Councillor Najin's motion to refer the... the pending motion, which is the amendment, to refer that to the planning board because you are allowed to take any pending motion before the body and refer it to a committee for their further review and study. So if that is the wish of Councillor Nagin and Longchamps would be to take the ordinance and refer it to planning board for review under parliamentary procedure, that is a motion that is in order at this time if they're so interested.

I appreciate that, Madam Clerk, and your encyclopedic knowledge of Robert's rules. We're always in uncharted territory up here. So just for clarification, were you trying to do that, Councillor Nagy?

I think that that is exactly what I'd like to do. I think that what Councillor Chittum has put forward is very interesting and most probably will carry the day, but I also have no head space at this moment to think about how this actually works.

Okay, so it sounds like you've made a motion. Are you seconding Councillor Longchamp? Second. Okay, can you explain what's going on and then call the vote?

So the motion before you is to refer this matter to the planning board and with that language going to the planning board will be the amendment as read by Councillor Chittum. Perfect.

Please call the vote. Sorry, Councillor Chen, did you have something? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Discussion on the new motion. I'm comfortable with that. However, given the Code Department's interpretation that the current language prohibits development of this lot, this simply puts the person who wants to develop the lot off for a month or six weeks. I don't know what that does to the construction schedule. I don't know what that does to their their desires but they had initially proposed this well over a month ago so by putting this back to the planning board it it hinders the development of the lot that created this uh proposed amendment in the first place that's that's the point i'd make thank you um since you're still here director connor can uh do you have any uh insight as to the construction schedule or anything like that

I don't. In talking with the owner, he's just waiting on, he's probably watching right now, but he's waiting on the deliberation right now. He's ready to go from my understanding.

Understood. Thank you. Further comments before we vote on this? Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council from word four.

On that motion, yes.

Word five. Yes. Word six.

No.

Word seven. Yes. Word one. Yes. Ward two? Yes. Ward three? Yes. Motion passed by a vote of six to one.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Director Connor. Item number 10.

Item number 10, public hearing and first passage regarding an amendment to the administrative code regarding the public safety committee. Requested action that the proposed amendments to the city code of ordinances chapter two administration sections 230 through 235 public safety committee receive first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regularly scheduled city council meeting.

I HAVE A MOTION, PLEASE. SO MOVED. COUNCILOR CHIDDUM. SECOND. SIGNED BY COUNCILOR NAJING. DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, COUNCILOR LONGCHAMP? SINCE YOU BROUGHT THIS FORWARD.

YES. I BROUGHT THIS FORWARD WHEN WE MADE THE CHANGES. SORRY, IT'S GETTING REALLY LATE. I'M EXTREMELY TIRED. BUT WHEN WE MADE THE CHANGES TO OUR SAFETY COMMITTEE, excluding uh or dissolving our mayor's uh safety committee I thought that when applicants came through that the mayor would include council a little bit more and in fact that didn't happen and I'm just asking that I'm hoping we can get enough votes so we can participate more in the folks that are applying for this is this is a really important committee it's important to MAKE SURE THAT THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE SITTING AT THE TABLE.

YEAH. FURTHER COMMENTS FROM COUNSELORS? Councillor Chittum, yes.

Yes, thank you. We heard public testimony earlier tonight about trying to achieve a diversity of opinion on this and other committees as well. I would be in favor of that so that the council actually makes the appointments rather than the mayor.

Councilor Harriman, yes.

Thank you. I am also in favor of this change, although I will point out again that this committee was just formed a few weeks ago, and we created the rules around it. So if we wanted to make it this way, we could have done it then. But I will support the change now.

There seems to be some confusion So yes, you know, there's a lot of comment last time about following process I absolutely followed the process and that's that's why there's this requested agenda item here now and then So I wasn't I was not able to unilaterally appoint people I had to nominate people which then it could be voted on by the council and the council could at that time Voted somebody down and then we you know could have got a different name the council did not wish for whatever reason does not want to Vote anyone down in fact approved the slate of people that I submitted. So yeah, I I guess I am not yeah, I'm definitely not in favor of this but I Yeah, counselor counselor a lot. It's getting late counselor long champs. I

Thank you for your opinion, Mayor. Again, this is a really important committee. I thought we were going to be more involved in The applicants, we were not, it's nothing against the folks that had applied, but I do think it's important that council be a part of who's applying for this and who you're nominating, if that makes sense.

Are you finished, Councilor Longchamps?

Yes, Mayor.

Just double checking. No, and I would argue that the, not argue, we're discussing. I would put forth that the council absolutely was a part of the process. I could not, I had to nominate people and the council could either vote them in or vote them out. Can we move the question? Yeah, there you go, thank you. Do you want to go to public comment first?

Go ahead.

We're heading to public comment for this agenda item.

Adam Jones Ward 2. I just have to commend my my word counselor. I really appreciate you having a voice on this. I think it's very evident that The mayor likes to do his own thing, so it's time for there's some change on those committees. I think the safety committee is is something that really needs to be a well rounded group of individuals that can bring valuable insight and information. Dissolve it and bring it back to the community and see what is best. It's it's time to get all his buddies off off the board so. I appreciate you speaking up for that. As far as being late, Carl, I've noticed you've been falling asleep a couple times. But this is important. You're here for us. So I'd appreciate if you stay awake. Thanks.

Hi, Lisa Jones, Ward 2. I really like the idea that Adam just suggested that you dissolve this committee that you approved a few weeks ago and start over. We have the same names on every committee that Carl appoints and they do nothing. We have problems and we need different voices to work to solve them. It's late because you spent most of the homeless discussion talking about shelters and ideology and what should and shouldn't happen and didn't even talk about permitting.

Further public comment? Back to the council. Yes, Councillor Longchamps.

Thank you, Mayor. If there was a way to dissolve the folks that you nominated, I would like to do that. But I don't know if we're able to during this. And if not, moving forward, if we do get enough votes, if someone were to leave the committee for whatever reason, I would ask that we are able to be a part of the process of who would be moving forward as an applicant. Thank you.

Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council, from word four?

Yes.

Word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? Yes. Word one? Yes. Word two? Yes. Word three? Yes. Motion passed by a vote of seven to zero.

Item number 11.

Item number 11, public hearing and first passage regarding an amendment to the parks and recreation ordinance to add two new locations to the list of city owned recreational facilities. Requested action that the proposed amendment to the city code of ordinances chapter 54 parks and recreation to add North Temple Pickleball Courts. located at 55 north temple road and south lewiston little league field located at 20 martin drive to the list of city-owned recreational facilities received first pastors by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regular scheduled city council meeting so move have a motion please yes counselor naging second by councillor harriman discussion

Councillor Nagy I just have one question concerning the City-owned parks are we did normally we also have hours for city-owned parks and I'm wondering if that's going to be done after the City-owned parks are adopted or if that should be part of this motion. I

That is a separate section. And I apologize. The director of recreation couldn't be here this evening due to a family scheduling conflict. Very lucky for her. That is a separate section in the code. um i'm not sure i don't believe offhand that every single park is listed in that section regarding the time frame but we can take a look at it um so i i'd be happy to review that with her tomorrow and if that is her recommendation to add those with the time frame we would have to bring it back to you because it is a separate section of the code okay understood um um that was my question thank you public comment for this agenda item

Back to the council. Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Councilor, from word four? Yes. Word five? Yes. Word six? Yes. Word seven? Yes. Word one? Yes. Word two? Yes. Word three? Yes. Motion passed by vote of seven to zero.

Item number 12.

Item number 12, public hearing and adoption of the fiscal year 2027 Lewiston Capital Improvement Program bond issue order. REQUESTED ACTION TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND ADOPT THE FISCAL YEAR 2027 LEWISTON CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BOND ISSUE ORDER AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE OF $39,578,153 IN FISCAL YEAR 2027 PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT BONDS AND MAKING AN APPROPRIATION FOR CERTAIN CAPITAL PROJECTS.

MAY I HAVE A MOTION, PLEASE? SO MOVED. COUNCILOR MARTIN. CAN I HAVE A SECOND, PLEASE?

So moved.

Councillor Nagy. Director Roy, is there anything you'd like to say?

I put in your packets just the projects that are on the capital that we will be approving so that you wouldn't have to go through the whole book. If you have any questions on any of those projects, the directors are here to answer them.

Thank you. Councillor Herriman. Thank you. I just wonder if we're going to have, typically we have presentations throughout the budget process about these various projects. I wonder if we're going to have that at some point before we vote on this.

So if you remember at the beginning of each department budget presentation, the LCIP was mentioned. And it was mentioned for what page it was on. And I opened it up for any questions to the director at that time from the council to go over the LCIPs.

Anything further, Councilor Herman?

That's it, thanks.

Councillor Nagy.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Director Roy, could you just let us know how much this exceeds the 80% rule? I'm sure it's considerable.

So it exceeds the 80% rule by 26,688,926. Okay.

And do we have an idea of what debt service we'll be carrying forward in three years with a hypothetical interest rate?

I used a 4.75 when I did the calculations that you have in the back of your LCIP book.

Right.

Currently, we're around 3%. We've been getting really good bond rating sales when we go out.

Thank you.

I'D LIKE TO ALSO ADD THAT I SEE MANY DEPARTMENT HEADS IN THE AUDIENCE, AND IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT SPECIFIC PROJECTS, NOW'S THE TIME. COUNCILOR CHIDDOM.

THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. There is an 80% limit that requires a supermajority to exceed. If this $39 million or $32.8 million general obligation bond LCIP is approved, we are looking at a 426% as opposed to 80% increase. We're looking at interest payments when these bonds are issued in excess of $1 million a year. we have had an exceedingly difficult budget season this year we have already kicked the can down the road by saying let's not use the new valuation levels until next year so the council that's sitting here next year will be faced with that identical problem that that we very successfully said let them worry about it If we pass this LCAP at 426% of the retired average debt over the past three years as opposed to 80%, we are again overburdening a subsequent council with uh an an extra million dollars in plus if she if if director roy is using four percent i was using three and a half percent uh an extra million dollars coming from the taxpayers to pay interest only on these projects I am not prepared to vote in favor of this tonight. So the only way this is going to pass at 426% is if five councilors say, yes, this is a good idea to burden the city with this kind of debt. Again, 426%, four times the average debt that we've retired over the past three years. and an interest burden on the taxpayers exceeding a million dollars a year. If you think this year was tough, folks, just wait until next year or the year after when these interest payments come due.

I APPRECIATE COUNSELOR CHIDDUM'S CONCERNS. I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL FORMULA OF THIS 80% RULE, IT MEANS WE HAVE AN EVER-SHRINKING AMOUNT OF THINGS THAT WE CAN BORROW MONEY FOR. IT'S LIKE CUTTING THE LINE IN HALF AND THEN IN HALF AGAIN AND HALF AGAIN. So at some point, we need to figure out a different methodology here. I do have a question for Director Roy, I guess, as far as how much is the interest on this amount that's in our packet tonight here? What's the interest that would be put on that?

So originally in the back of your book, on page 122, it had the, if you look down, it'll say city, the fourth one down, it says add fiscal year 27's LCIP proposed. It had the principal and the interest. in fiscal year 29 is when we would bond it. So those totals are on that page. For city, for the interest, it's $1.1 million. For school, it would be $455,000. For water, the interest would be $137,750. for sewer interest would be 110,438 and stormwater would be 76,950 for interest only.

Now is that on every project in this book or just the list that's in our packet tonight?

That's in the list with a minor adjustment. We had removed the signs for $100,000 and we had removed the MDOT portion of a project. The rest of them were in this book on that calculation. So it's a small portion that was moved off.

Okay, so the list that's in our packet tonight is almost the same as this book? Correct. Okay, thank you.

Councillor Nagy. And really quickly, when do we have to approve the LCIP fine?

I'd have to look at the charter, but I believe it has to be approved by the end of June.

BY THE END OF JUNE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STICKS OUT, THE CONTINENTAL MILL TIF IS BASED ON FUTURE REVENUE. SAME THING WITH THE LOWELL STREET DEVELOPMENT TIP. IT'S FUTURE REVENUE. WE KNOW THE SITUATION WITH THE LISBON STREET FIRE STATION. ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN HERE IS INFRASTRUCTURE PIECES. street maintenance program six million dollars I think the one thing that's uh probably contested or or possibly contested is uh the take-home vehicles and honestly we've agreed to a budget that didn't account for those take-home vehicles so we have to find a room for 10 to 15 more cars if we want to to back that out um Sorry, did account for the take-home vehicles, didn't account for vehicle replacement now. So that means that we'd have to go back to reopening all those other pieces. What I would suggest possibly is that we table the LCIP discussion for the next meeting or hold a special meeting between now and then. think they're ultimately this is a huge amount of money we're gonna be carrying a huge debt if we approve this and there are pieces here that I mean are we not gonna pave roads this year you know like are we not gonna build the fire station

So I guess if we're, you know, thinking about tabling, I would ask the council what would be different now versus, you know, next meeting. The answer that comes to my mind is not much. And, yeah, I think we should vote on this tonight. Councilor Ehrman, back to you.

yeah i guess i just wish that we had maybe in future years we could have a presentation on these items and what they're about and why they're important um just as part of the budget process i feel like we used to do that and it didn't happen this year um because i mean we we don't really, we haven't really had these things explained to us, like what is the, you know, what exactly are the kitchen and bathroom repairs at City Hall? You know, I understand some of them street maintenance programs on there every year, vehicle and equipment replacement, but we just haven't had that presentation and that discussion of what these items are for and why they're important.

Councilor Longchamp's

Thank you, Mayor. It's getting late, as we all know. I just don't see, quite honestly, what we could take out of this. As Councilor Nagin said, really the only one thing would be the take home vehicles. Our police department has basically pleaded with us and asked us to do this so that they could have another recruiting tool. I think it's very important. I think we've had another officer leave the police department, the city of Lewiston, if I'm... correct on that I could be wrong but so we'll be down one more officer we need to figure out a way to recruit officers and this is one tool that we have heard from our chief of police deputy chief and other department heads within the police department that this would really be helpful for the police department so I would ask that we approve this as is. I really don't see anything that we can take out of that. Thank you.

uh yes i support the police uh cruisers and uh there are descriptions on every page about what the items are for uh yeah i um yeah if we have specific questions uh i would remind counselors that we have department heads here right now ready to answer them uh yes back to you counselor herman

Yes, I was just looking at some of these items, and some of them are not all or nothing, such as the vehicle and equipment replacement. We have about 10 or 12 items on there. That's one area where we could have a little bit of savings. I realize it wouldn't be a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, though, if we removed a couple of the vehicles at the bottom of that priority list. uh do you have a question for public works we i notice we have uh our fleet manager here no just a suggestion if um if anyone else is is up for it that's just one area where we could make a small savings gotcha thank you um counselor neji

From our past budget presentations, our director of public works had indicated that the two vehicles at the very bottom of that could come off. And so I just want to reiterate that what Councillor Herriman is saying is correct. And yeah, I'm gonna have a difficult time approving this because of the number, 100%. But also, I don't know what we're gonna cut here, to be honest.

Councillor Longchamp, back to you.

Thank you. I'm confused. Did we have this number already? Like, didn't we know these things were in there?

Director Roy, can you answer that?

So when we did the presentation for the LCIP, the five year, we went over briefly with you. And then during every budget session for each department that had LCIP, it was at the beginning, if you look at all the write-ups that you received, it was at the beginning. And we opened up with those for discussions on those projects. while the director was there with all of their information. And there was very little. Of course, we had discussions on the take-home vehicles and maybe a couple on the public works LCIPs, a couple of them, but no other discussions. And the school did present their budget along with their LCIP on a separate night also.

Councillor Chenoweth, or did you have anything else, Councillor Longchamps? Or wait, sorry, no, Councillor Nagy, that was your question. No, or, no, Councillor Longchamps, yes, did you have anything else?

I guess, I mean, what are we proposing that we take out of this? Can we do that tonight?

Can we discuss that? Yeah, we're discussing it right now. What are you proposing? While you think on that, if that's okay, I would like to recognize Councilor Chittum.

Thank you, I have a question on process. If the five vote majority is not obtained, what is the next step? And I guess that would be for Administrator Kainrath or Director Roy?

If we do not have five votes, we would take requests from you to look at other removing projects. That's why we're here, and that's why during the budget session, we were looking for questions on the LCIP, so we knew at the point where we're at, we should have had what all councilors wanted to see to get approved for projects.

Thank you.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND COUNSELORS THAT EVERYTHING ON THIS LIST JUST GETS MORE EXPENSIVE WITH TIME. IT DOES NOT BECOME CHEAPER TO BUILD A BUILDING. IT DOES NOT BECOME CHEAPER TO BUY VEHICLES, ET CETERA. UNLESS WE ARE COMPLETELY ELIMINATING THE ITEM FROM A FUTURE BUDGET, WE ARE SIMPLY DELAYING A PURCHASE THAT WILL LIKELY BE MORE EXPENSIVE IN SUBSEQUENT YEARS. THERE IS ALSO THAT TO CONSIDER.

Mr. Mayor.

Administrator Kainrath, yes.

Yeah, I would just throw out again, we do have until the end of June to approve this. If it would be a better process for the council, we could put this back on the agenda for the 16th, maybe have more of a workshop-type session, have the department heads here answer questions, give us people two more weeks to really hone in on some particular projects they're curious about. And we could come back on the 16th and do this with more time, if that's of interest.

Yes, understood. Thank you, Administrator Kainrath. Councillor Nagy.

If we chose to do that, because I don't know how the votes are going to go either, it could very well be that we don't get the five votes. Would there be an opportunity to go back to both the Lowell Street development TIF and Continental Mill TIF to see if those projects are still carrying forward so that we're not bonding money that we may not

I think we're winding up Acting Director Blay here.

Acting Director Blay, the question is, so the Continental Mill TIF and the Lowell Street Development TIF, from my understanding, possibly at least one of them doesn't have the funding stack created at the moment. My question is, if we...

uh delayed either of these tips for a year would that affect these projects do we know like right now or is that an answer you could get for us for the next meeting i believe that's an answer i can get for you for the next meeting okay um but i do know that um 55 wool looks pretty good okay that's excellent and then you know continental they're they're working on that as of right now so

yeah i mean we've committed to the tiffs and we certainly want to give them i i think the question is just do we need to bond it this year for any of either of the like is anything pushed back and maybe that's a that's a uh a point where we can reduce some bonding yeah the only concern is that it's in the cea um we we do have a legal obligation to do that so

that's the only consideration that we would have to go back and read and make sure that you know we're not jeopardizing you know a legal standing agreement okay I appreciate that thank you we're now heading to public comment for this agenda item public comment is now closed back to the counselor counselors what would you like to do we could vote on this or we could move this to the next meeting

Mr. Mayor, what is the motion on the table?

Madam Clerk?

Yes, the motion on the table is the one that is printed in your book to hold a public hearing and adopt the fiscal year 2027 Lewiston Capital Improvement Bond Issue Order authorizing the issuance of $39,578,153 in fiscal year 2027 public improvement bonds and making an appropriation for certain capital projects.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Hearing what we heard from Acting Director Blay, I think we should vote on this tonight. But how do the rest of you feel? Councilor Longchamps?

Thank you, Mayor. Again, just looking over these, which we have discussed all of them, I just don't see any that would be smart to take out, in my opinion. I just don't. I think that we may be able to get it a little lower by the suggestions that Council Harriman made, but I don't know that that's really enough to make a difference. I would ask council that we approve this. These items, each one of them were discussed. We may not have had a workshop on each one of them, but we had the opportunity to discuss each one of these with each director. And if one of these TIFs for some reason don't happen, well, then it lessens, right? So I would hope that we could approve this and continue to move forward with our next challenges that we are sure to have. Thank you.

Seeing no further motions or hands, Madam Clerk, can you please call the vote?

Council from Ward 4.

No.

Ward 5?

Yes.

Ward 6? No. Ward 7?

Yes.

Ward 1?

Yes.

Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3?

Yes.

Motion passed by a vote of 5 to 2.

thank you very much madam clerk uh do we still have uh staff here for item number 13. okay and then do we have our attorney here for item number okay it's going to take a minute to sort of like reset the stage up here for that so we're taking a brief recess then we're going to come back i'm going to make a suggestion i want to know the next agenda that we can't go past 10 o'clock Hello, and we're back. If I can have people please take their seats. Okay, Madam Clerk, item number 13.

Item number 13, dangerous building hearing for the building located at 70 River Street. There are two items for requested action. The first item, to conduct a hearing to determine if the building located at 70 River Street has met the dangerous building statutes as defined in Title 17, Section 2851 et al.

Thank you. We will now begin. On May 12, 2026, the Lewiston City Council held a dangerous building hearing. The council determined that the building located at 70 River Street posed a serious threat to public health and safety within the meaning of Section 2856 of Title 17, that the threat to public health and safety... REQUIRE PROMPT ACTION IN ORDER THAT THE BUILDING IMMEDIATELY BE SECURED. THIS EVENING WE WILL CONDUCT A HEARING TO DETERMINE THREE THINGS. WHETHER THE BUILDING AT 70 RIVER STREET IS A NUISANCE OR DANGEROUS BUILDING WITHIN THE MEETING OF THE APPLICABLE MAIN STATE AT SECTION 2851 OF TITLE 17 OF THE MAIN REVISED STATUTES. In addition, on May 20, 2026, Director Carner issued a determination that a travel trailer located at 70 River Street was a serious threat to the public health and safety and that the threat to the public health and safety required prompt action. The council will consider whether the determination was accurate and whether to adopt it. Finally, the council will determine whether the travel trailer located at 70 River Street is a nuisance or dangerous structure within the meaning of the applicable main state at section 2851 of title 17 of the main revised statutes. This building is owned by Scott Clifford and the travel trailer appears to be owned by him as well. The land is owned by Franklin Property Trust LLC. In the past, the city understood Stephanie Clifford was a tenant at the property. She has written to city staff that she has not been on the property since June of last year and has nothing to do with the property. I ask that any owner or party of interest, including tenants, introduce yourself, including your name, address, and position. Is an owner, party of interest, or representative present? Does any city council member know an owner or another party in interest or have knowledge about this matter that means that you could not fairly and impartially hear the facts and decide the matter based on the evidence presented at the hearing? The hearing will be conducted according to the mayor's procedures for a dangerous building hearing, which I read at the September 3, 2024 council meeting and are included in your packets. I will accept into evidence the planning and code enforcement departments previously provided exhibits A through J1. I now ask the Lewis and Planning and Code Enforcement Department present the city council with information relevant to this matter before it.

Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of the city council. For the record, my name is John Connor. I'm the director of planning and code enforcement for the city of Lewiston. Sitting at the table with me tonight is building inspector Travis Tardif, who also serves as our code enforcement officer. We are here tonight to present the official dangerous building case regarding the structures located at 70 River Street. To establish the council's legal jurisdiction over this matter tonight, all statutory notice and formal service requirements under Maine law have been fully and strictly executed. To break down the legal descriptions of the premises for the record, the land is identified as tax map parcel ID RE00020418. The underlying real estate is owned by Franklin Property Trust, LLC. Their title stems from a series of historical filings, including a 1976 quick claim deed, a 1979 confirmatory deed, and a 2008 trustees deed. The main building is identified as a single family residential structure under tax map parcel ID RE0004425. The building itself is owned by Scott Clifford. He took ownership via a notarized bill of sale dated May 1, 2024. The travel trailer. This is an unpermitted vehicle on the property with no license plates and an unidentifiable owner. However, our evidence shows it has been situated on site since Mr. Clifford took title to the main building, making him the likely owner. Regarding formal notifications, the notice of dangerous building hearing was officially recorded in the Androscoggin County Registry of Deeds on May 14, 2026, under book 12095, page 234. Personal service was successfully completed via the sheriff's office to the building owner on May 13. Service was executed on the building occupants via physical posting on May 14. a formal waiver of service was signed by the landowners legal council on may 15th furthermore notices regarding the travel trailer hearing were properly served on may 22nd you'll also see uh there was an additional exhibit h-2 was placed on your desks tonight showing that uh there was receipt of service as of yesterday for the landowner for that trailer So what are we seeking tonight? Our department is asking the city council to adopt the formal findings of fact, conclusions of law in order prepared by staff. Specifically, we are seeking a multi-part action first to ratify the emergency order, to secure the unpermitted travel trailer on the property. Second, to order the immediate demolition and removal of both the trailer and the main structure, a residential building, and third to authorize the recovery of all city expenses via a special tax assessment or collection action. Now we'd like to quickly talk about the travel trailer conditions. Let's first look at the unpermitted Shasta travel trailer parked on the lot. This structure easily meets four out of the five core requirements of the dangerous building statute. Our inspection revealed the following severe deficiencies. It has a lack of utilities. The trailer has absolutely no running water and no means of disposing of human waste. The structural exposure, every single window has been completely smashed out, leaving the interior entirely exposed to weather and water damage. excuse me there are sanitation sinks the interior is in a state of extreme filth chalked with trash and debris worse our team documented raw sewage actively leaking onto the ground directly underneath the travel trailer there is an extreme fire hazard the the vehicle was drawing electrical power via an exposed cord attached with bare raw wires which were spliced into the extension cord running back into the main property of the garage I just want to pause really quick to address a point. I know it's been brought up in the past when we had buildings where there was fire hazards to, you know, we want to make sure that we get with CMP to pull the power, to turn the power off, to mitigate the electrical fire risks. In modern reality, at unsafe encampments such as this, there's a false sense of security with that during this specific site visit a resident that came out of the travel trailer explicitly informed me that they utilize portable gasoline generators and battery bank solar generators for power with a simple youtube search anyone can find instructions to illegally wire these alternative power sources to ungrounded compromised structures Splicing high current battery systems or portable generators into bare, unexposed wire creates an incredibly volatile fire hazard that exists entirely independent of the commercial power grid. Cutting utility power does not fix this. Removing the hazard entirely is the only option. Emergency measures taken. Because these raw live wires and toxic sanitation failures pose an immediate undeniable threat to human life and safety, I exercise my statutory authority to issue the emergency prompt action determination on May 20th, 2026. Four occupants who admitted they were living inside the trailer were safely evacuated and given time to clear their personal belongings. Public Works immediately stepped in to secure the vehicle from unauthorized entry and a formal prohibited occupancy notice was posted directly to the structure itself. Moving now to the primary single family residence. This structure checks every single one of the five major criteria under the dangerous building statute. It is entirely unsafe, unstable, unsanitary, and dangerous to life. The structure integrity of this building has been completely collapsed. As you're looking at the slide here, talking about the foundation failure, this home sits on a wooden foundation where the sills and framing have suffered extensive unmaintained rot. The massive hole has formed in the foundation wall. It was made worse by an amateur excavation project around the exterior that leaves the opening foundation entirely vulnerable to water and freezing elements. From the inside basement view, the foundation wall is bulging heavily and has structurally failed. The center support beam is entirely unengineered and improperly supported. Water actively runs into the exposed basement, eroding the dirt floor and undermining what little stability remains. BECAUSE THE FOUNDATION HAS BECAUSE THE FOUNDATION HAS DROPPED, THE REST OF THE HOUSE DROPPED, THE REST OF THE HOUSE DROPPED, THE REST OF THE HOUSE IS ACTIVELY TEARING ITSELF IS ACTIVELY TEARING ITSELF IS ACTIVELY TEARING ITSELF APART. APART. APART. THE EXTERIOR SIDEWALLS ARE THE EXTERIOR SIDEWALLS ARE THE EXTERIOR SIDEWALLS ARE VISIBLY BOWING OUTWARD. VISIBLY BOWING OUTWARD. VISIBLY BOWING OUTWARD. THE ROOF FACIA IS BUCKLING AND THE ROOF FACIA IS BUCKLING AND THE ROOF FACIA IS BUCKLING AND THE MAIN ROOF RIDGELINE IS MAIN ROOF RIDGELINE IS MAIN ROOF I'd like to talk quickly about the electrical hazards. The internal electrical systems mirrored the severe structural neglect. Throughout the property, we documented extensive instances of unmaintained, improperly installed, and exposed wiring left completely raw. Just as we see with the travel trailer, the threat of fire here cannot be engineered away by pulling the meter. The presence of secondary ungrounded electrical setups combined with structurally compromised walls and exposed framing makes this entire building an extreme fire and safety hazard that must be permanently removed. Finally, the internal sanitary conditions are completely unlivable and present an active public health hazard. Municipal water service to 70 River Street was officially disconnected back in October of 2025. Without running water, the home's plumbing and waste removal systems are totally non-functional. predictably the occupants resorted to illicit disposal methods human waste and animal waste were found scattered openly across the living room areas floors the bathtubs are backed up and filled with a thick stagnant pool of waste and debris these extreme sanitation failures create an immediate biological hazard and render the structure entirely unsuitable for residential occupancy In conclusion, severe long-term lack of maintenance has left both structures structurally unstable, profoundly unsanitary, and an immediate threat to the neighborhood and public safety. They cannot be safely rehabilitated. Therefore, we formally request that the City Council approve our findings and issue the proposed order to execute the following four items. Number one, that you ratify and adopt my May 20th, 2026 emergency prompt action determination to secure the travel trailer. Number two, order the owners or signs to immediately ensure the travel trailer remains completely sealed and secure from any unauthorized entry number three order the owners successors or signs to demolish both the travel trailer and the primary resident residential building clear all resulting debris, and safely stabilize the site within 30 days of the service of this order. Please note that per the explicit language of this order, this timeline will only be delayed if a formal, legally viable rehabilitation plan is submitted to my office, the approval of which remains entirely at my sole discretion based on their demonstrated ability to perform the rehabilitation. And number four, order full reimbursement to the city of Lewiston for all administrative, legal, and demolition costs within 30 days of demand. If the owner fails to reimburse the city, the order authorizes us to assess a special tax directly against the real estate to recover every penny on behalf of the taxpayers. Before I open the floor, I want to emphasize that building inspector Travis Tardif has spent countless hours on the ground in this property alone. He is the absolute expert on the specific physical and structural layout of these buildings. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, counselors. That concludes the department's presentation. If the council has any questions on the building, Building Inspector Travis Tardif and I are here to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Director Carner. Thank you very much, Travis. So yes, we will entertain questions specifically about the property. I want to remind Councillors that there'll be a time for deliberation about what to do later. Councillor Nagy.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just out of curiosity, we don't have an ordinance in place concerning travel trailers not being registered and being on property. I know we're treating this as like a DOMA style, I guess, and I'm just kind of questioning why.

Well, we do have an ordinance on the books that doesn't allow people to live in them. But this one has been on the property for some years now. It was originally just being stored there. I believe Travis had given the original owner. At one point in time, there were people in there getting them out. They came into compliance. Once this building started being occupied by transients, if you will, They moved the trailer over into the normal driveway and just started living in it. And so at that point in time, we treat it as a structured domicile.

Okay, thank you.

COUNSELOR HERMAN. THANK YOU. HAVE YOU BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE OWNER AND DOES HE HAVE ANY PLANS FOR THE PROPERTY OR IS HE JUST GOING TO LET IT GO OR I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD ANY CONTACT?

SO WE HAVE NOT HAD DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE OWNER. SO WE HAVE RECEIVED THE RETURN OF SERVICE. SO THE OWNER WAS INCARCERATED IN THE LOCAL COUNTY JAIL. WE DID FOLLOW UP TO FIND OUT YOU KNOW, HE IS IN CONTACT WITH MEMBERS ON THE OUTSIDE. AT OUR LAST INSPECTION, THERE WAS A RESIDENT THERE WHO TOLD US THAT HE HAD SPOKEN WITH THE OWNER AND THAT HE WAS DUE TO COME OUT OF JAIL SOON. HE SAID TWO WEEKS. I CONFIRMED WITH THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT YESTERDAY THAT ASKING IF HE WAS IN FACT RELEASED. HE SAID NO. WE DID A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH AND FOUND OUT THAT THE OWNER HAS BEEN He's been moved to state prison and is there for at least a year that we know of.

Okay, thank you.

Councillor Chittum. Thank you. This property is, the real estate is owned by Franklin Company. And does Franklin Company have any liability? We talk about recovering costs if we have to demolish the building and so on. Is there legal precedent for Franklin Company to be liable for those costs?

yes and i before i answer i'll defer to attorney kerry the the the statute that sets forth a payment of payment of costs um allows for the assessment of a special tax against the property i think kind of historically i think this city has gotten somewhere around 50 plus or minus of those costs it also allows for civil action against the owners uh here the uh franklin properties you point out is the owner of the land and the building is owned by somebody else those that statute says that the taxes are assessed to the the property on the real estate on which the building was located so that in this case would cover franklin thank you further questions uh for our uh team up here

Anything further from you two? I guess, are we ready to close the record? The record is now closed, thank you. Madam Clerk, item number two.

With regard to the property at 70 River Street to adopt the findings of fact, conclusions of law and order proposed by the city planning and code enforcement department, which order established the corrective action to be taken by the property owner and the time frame for taking such action and which authorized the city administrator to take such corrective action if the property owner fails to do so and to recoup the city's costs through a special tax or collective action.

I HAVE A MOTION, PLEASE.

SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED.

SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED.

SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOVED. SO MOV

Anything further, Mr. Carey? Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council from Ward 4?

Yes.

Ward 5? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? Yes. Ward 1? Yes. Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. Pass the vote of 7-0.

Thank you to our Planning and Code Department. Thank you, Mr. Carey.

Thank you, folks.

Madam Clerk, item number 14.

Item 14, resolution to censure City Councilor Scott Harriman of Ward 3. Request an action to adopt the resolution to censure City Councilor Scott Harriman of Ward 3.

I have a motion, please. So moved. Councilor Chittum. Second. Second by Councilor Martell. Councilor Harriman, yes.

Thank you. Just one moment. so What I want to name before getting to the specifics is the pattern of this behavior Over the past several months this council has responded to misconduct in ways that do not track with any consistent standard and Ongoing behavior that is loud and documented is met with silence or shrugs. Other behavior has been met with the swiftest and most severe response available. The question I keep coming back to is not whether any individual decision was right or wrong. It is what standard, if any, is actually guiding which issues we treat seriously and which are just waved along. Because from where I'm sitting, it's pretty clear that this is not about enforcing the rules, running an efficient meeting, or getting the needs of our community met. It's just petty and dysfunctional sniping. Real leaders would have a hard conversation with any single one of us about our behavior if that behavior is not meeting the standard of the entire council. I want to make sure people are aware of the timeline of events surrounding this agenda item. This alleged infraction took place a few weeks ago, yet Mayor Chalene and Councilor Chittum have still not said one word about it to me. And I only found out about it when I read the agenda for tonight's meeting. Why wouldn't Mayor Chalene or Councilor Chittum talk to me about their supposed concerns? I still don't know what was allegedly said. I rewatched the meeting several times and could not find anything. Going straight to the most severe type of punishment without even communicating your concern is not how discipline or leadership is supposed to work. I'm also aware that the mayor shopped this resolution around to at least one other counselor to see if they wanted to be the one to bring it forward. Does that show an effort to make us work together better and to serve our constituents better? Or is it a negotiation to see who wants to score points? The mayor also called my state house campaign manager last week to give him a heads up about this resolution and these allegations. But he still has not communicated with me about it. What does that tell you about the motivation behind it? A few months ago, another counselor used obscene language on Mike quite loudly, and no action was taken. At a different meeting, the same counselor loudly trash talked on Mike, an applicant to the vacant city council seat. Again, no action was taken. The council president and I have discussed multiple times one counselor's years long and ongoing harassment and sexual harassment of another counselor. But Counselor Chittum acted totally uninterested and has taken no action. It has been very challenging to continue to try to ignore this behavior, which has included this counselor sending messages such as, how bad does your ass hurt in the morning? And just because you like to get fucked doesn't mean that the rest of Lewiston feels the same way. Same counselor has also made comments about his perception of the intellectual capacity and the mental health of another counselor. Comments that include, do you intentionally try to appear clueless and incapable of critical thought, or is it just a side effect of your inferior intellect? And he is just a delusional ideologue with very limited intelligence. This has also spread to at least one other counselor who has spread rumors about her opinions on this counselor's mental health and well-being. If she actually cared, she would talk to that counselor about that, which she has not done. We're not going to censure the counselor who is using valuable city resources against a segment of our community based on their religion. We're not going to censure the counselor who continues to stalk and harass another counselor, including slowly driving by them with their phone out the window, taking pictures or video of them, especially, and this is concerning, after sending them a message saying, I hope that a random bullet does not find you when you cross the street. But we're going to leap to the most severe punishment possible with no prior conversation for somebody maybe saying a bad word that nobody seems to have heard. I've been frustrated by the way some of our recent work has been conducted. It's been challenging to do this work when city administration shares information selectively or not at all. Different counselors do not receive information on the same time frame, which makes it very difficult to do the jobs we were elected to do, which is to represent our constituents. When we don't get information at all or when we get it a few minutes or a few hours before a meeting, that's not how good thoughtful policy is made. Ultimately though none of this is about any one of us up here It's about the thousands of Lewiston residents who are being denied full representation When the people they chose to represent them are shut out of the process We all up here are trying to advocate for our neighbors, but that's hard or nearly impossible when some counselors keep getting sidelined over petty grudges I Thinking of the people who want to know what their tax bill is going to be after the revaluation What steps are being taken to address violence happening in their backyard? or even just whether they can use bigger or smaller trash cans under the new system and When city administration doesn't share information or refuses to answer constituent questions, it doesn't just affect us personally as city councilors.

It disempowers huge segments of the people we are all here to serve. What's your point of order, Councillor Martell?