Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Hello, Madam Chair. We are live and the room is now unmuted.

I hereby call this meeting of um October 21st at the Lancaster County Planning Commission to order. Would the clerk please call the role? Jason Cavalier here. Yokima Kuritan present. Lynette Henson here. Judiana Tinkllinberg here. Michelle Richards here. Sheila Henson here. Francis Lou

here. Uh will the clerk please make a note on the record that a quorum of the planning commission is present. Public notice of the meeting, including the meeting agenda, has been posted the required length of time in the lobby of the county administration building and on the county website. And the news media was notified of the meeting place and time. I'm sorry, I'm in the glasses on, glasses off phase of my life. Um, welcome to the Lancaster County Planning Commission meeting. Make sure that all of your electronic devices are silenced and please abide by the posted rules of this meeting room. That includes removing hats, um, keeping your clothes on, keep your shoes on, no profanity, no cheering, you know, all the usual stuff when you're in a public place. Um, a signup sheet has been provided at the entrance to the room. If you haven't already, please add your name to the list for the agenda item and you will be called to speak at the appropriate time. Please rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance and opening prayer by Commissioner Kuritan.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Please remain standing. Father God, kind and loving Father, we come to you tonight to say thank you. We thank you for safe travel to this event tonight. Lord, we lift up our heart posture to you and we ask that you would give us clarity that you would recall all of the conversations that we've had so that we can make wise decisions for the county of Lancaster. We thank you, Father, for this um this privilege that you have bestowed upon us. Father, help us to steward it correctly and to be um to be patient um to be thoughtful, to be considerate, and to be wise. In the mighty name of Jesus, we pray. Amen. Thank you, ma'am. Uh, commissioners, you have before you the agenda for tonight's meeting. Do I hear a motion?

Motion to approve. Second. Um, any discussions or comments? Um, I Yes. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. I did note for the record that there is a scrier's error in the September 16th, 2025 minutes that I am requesting to have amended. That would be on um the number four of that section. Um the last paragraph prior to the vote count, um the motion to amend by Jay Tinklenberg per written amendments provided by Y. Kuritin that should be amended to um Miss Tinkleberg provided those documents please. Thank you.

We're not approving minutes yet. We're just doing the agenda. Oh, sorry. I'm skipping ahead all the way. My fault.

All right. So, any um any comments or questions about the agenda? So, uh, commissioners, can we have a show of hands favor to, um, accept the agenda as posted? Passes six to nothing. All right. The next the next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes. So, item A, the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. We will go back to Miss Williams comments and Yes, ma'am. Um, I'd actually like to ask to table the minutes. Um, I've got some details that I'd like to include into the um, workshop for August. Uh, just for clarification purposes. Um, just some details that needed to be added that I'd like to uh, to have added in there.

I'll second that. All right. So, we have a motion and a second to table the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. Uh, show of hands in favor of tableabling that. Is that was that for clarification? Is that all of the minutes or just the section A? Um, if you're going to table all of them. Yeah. If you if since it's one item, if you're going to table all of them, you can do it all together. If you're going to do each individual that way, you can do it per vote, whichever you'd prefer.

Since we're tableabling one, do y'all mind if we do it as three individual ones so we can just table the one item? So, I would probably do more than one because the August the 7th um actually in my opinion needs the quote in from Commissioner Henson um it doesn't add any context to the conversation and so my understanding from our joint session of FOYA it means that the conversation has to be recorded to add context and to add clarity and This reads, "That's why I had that dot dot dot. It was incorrectly dot dot dot um recorded." And that just doesn't add any context at all to me. So,

like I said, we've now got two addendums to the September 16th regular meeting. So, I'm saying we're going to take items A, B, and C and approve them separately so we can table them instead of just doing approval of all three sets of minutes at once. Oh, okay. I thought it was you. Okay. Yep. So, we have a motion to table the September 16th, 2025 regular meetings. A motion and a second. Yes. I'm just catching up. That's all that. Okay. That all transpired pretty quick there of we were actually going to do. So, could you restate that for me, please?

Yes, please. Like I said, I saw the question on your face. So, yes. So, um, we have two comments and addendums to the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. So, we have a motion and a second to table the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes to our next meeting and then we'll we'll vote on the next two of meetings, the next two meeting minutes separately. Okay. So, show of hands to approve tableabling the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes.

I think what the one that I was questioning was it goes back to the workshop for August the but it is in the it's in there. So, I just went through Yes. So, it's it all there's like that set of meeting minutes is 14 pages long. So because I don't like have Oh, there. Yes. That's what I That's why I sat there and So yes. So once again, we have a motion and a second to table the September 16th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. Show of hands to approve tableabling. That passes six to zero. Now, Madam Chair, I think there's seven of us.

Sorry, I'm not counting myself. That's why. Thank you. All right. Now, um um can I hear a motion for um approving the September 23rd, 2025 special meeting joint meet training meeting? Motion to approve. Excuse me. Second.

Okay, so we have a first and a second. Do we have any questions or comments about these minutes? You're good. Had a lot of minutes to review this week. Any questions or comments? I did. There it is. All right. Do I have um so we have a motion to accept the 20 the September 23rd 2025 special meeting joint training meeting minute mean minutes as presented. Can I have a roll? Can I have a show of hands vote to approve? Miss Sheila

I don't I am not sure what you're talking about. Uh that I'm I don't even know if I was at that meeting the joint training session that we had up at the Del Webb Library. She was not. Miss Hson was not there for that. You can abstain. That's fine. We approved that in our new our new minute meeting. So we have um 64 one abstained. Uh two abstain. I wasn't there yet.

Okay. Two abstained. Okay. So five and two. My math worked. Jason. Five and two. My math worked at this time. Thank you. All right. And then lastly, um can I get a motion to um approve our October 2nd, 2025 special meeting? Which one? The um October 2nd the workshop. The workshop, but it was actually a special meeting which is why they recorded it. Oh, that's right. Yes. Um I I just have one correction. That's a simple one. Well, we got to get a motion and then you can correct. Okay. I make a motion to approve.

Second. Okay. All right. Now, any comments or questions or discussion? Um, my name is spelled Liu instead of LUI. It is supposed to be LIU. It's throughout its LUI. No, no worries. But I'm vain enough to correct it. Nope. That's not a bad thing. They called me Jeremy for like the first two months. So, all right. If you're writing me a check though, I'll accept it either way.

All right. So, we have a motion and a sec and a second to accept the minute meetings for the October 2nd, 2025 special meeting with the addendum of correcting the spelling of Miss Lou's last name. Everybody agree to that? Yep. All right. Show of hands to approve this minutes with the addendum. So that is seven to none. All right. Very good, Madam Chair. Yes, sir. Uh before we go to citizens comments, I have a statement to make. Yes.

Okay. Um to whom it may concern. Uh I have a document in front of me that I will recite to everyone. I will try to be quick. Uh, this document serves as rebuttal of statements made in a recorded public meeting that unfairly targeted the former chair, namely me, of the Lancaster County Planning Commission. This was not the first occurrence of false accusations against the former chair, as well as attempts by certain members of the planning commission to coersse, manipulate, and harass me into violation of the law, the rules of parliamentary procedure, or commit to defamation against others. The following sections I'll go over address specific allegations and clarify some of these facts to add context. The first being the removal of the election of officers from the July 2025 planning commission agenda with some form of outside control or conspiring to mislead the planning commission. There was no evidence or is no evidence of illegal outside control or conspiracy involving me. Decisions regarding meeting agendas and the assigned items follow procedural norms and administrative oversight. to imply that I participated in misleading the planning commission members as false and damaging to my reputation. The planning commission agenda was created and published as required by law by the Lancaster County planning staff. Any changes that would have been requested in a specified time frame, which they were not, and as such, the former chair did follow protocol by adhering to the published agenda despite the efforts of these other planning commission members to undermine the rules and procedures set forth. There never was or is any con taking place by the former chair. Number two, by withholding information, our prior chair, me did not communicate this change with his fellow commissioners. The former chair acted in good faith and with the information available at the time. Any adjustments to the agenda were administrative, not the result of malefficient withholding of information.

Suggesting otherwise misrepresents my leadership and dedication to legitimate legal transparency. All communication that was presented to me was carefully considered along with any required confidential discretion that was stated in any communication received i.e. the confidentiality notice at the bottom of any business related email received by any planning commissioner from the staff etc. that was upheld and not shared without explicit permission from the sender or the appropriate county staff. The lack of knowledge or lawful permission to have that knowledge does not justify the public condemnation of me for any conspiratorial or misleading acts. The agenda for that meeting was executed by me as it was published just as the law specifies. Third, the entire meeting was errored and ultimately led to more confusion moving forward. That specific meeting was conducted in good faith under the leadership of me. While there may have been procedural disagreements, it is false and defamatory to claim that the meeting itself was fundamentally an error under my guidance. The proper format of the posted planning commission agenda and the required timing were executed by the planning department staff to the best of its ability and dutifully administrated by myself at all meetings according to South Carolina state law. Any discrepancies around precedent were identified prior to the public engagement using the best judgment available of resources which did show that the planning commission officer elections were not consistently held at a specific time. At a later date, the county staff reviewed the circumstances around the election of officers and decided an election could take place. It was added to a subsequent agenda and held at a public meeting. Rules of the planning commission state that the sitting chair remains in place until an election is conducted and another chair is elected. So the actions of myself at that meeting were in order. The same rules reaffirmed by the planning commission at a later date did include language that the elections of the planning commission officers would occur in January of any year, not in July.

Number four, the former chair ignored requests by planning commission members to take action. I acted in good faith with all communications to and from planning commission members. Every communication that the former chair received was forwarded, responded to, or answered. Every effort was exhausted to ensure the fair and equitable flow of commun excuse me, planning commission members communications, but not without regard for the rules of law. Multiple attempts were made by certain members to incite embarrassing and appropriate and unethical action by myself against county staff and the Lancaster County citizens. I do not abide any disreputable requests, but did determine corrective action uh to promote the well-being of all the parties involved. Insinuating that I did dismiss or ignore any communication from the planning commission members or the county staff is false and defamatory. The public statements that were committed regarding the former chair present serious mischaracterizations of the role and actions. Those individuals have voluntarily committed defamation via a government instrument against the former chair to be held accountable for their actions. The accusations of conspiracy, misleading conduct, fraud, and failure to communicate are unfounded. Former chair acted with integrity and in uh integrity and in accordance with procedural standards and commu including communication of any ideas or intent prescribed by the planning commission as a whole. The rebuttal demands that anyone making these allegations either immediately, and I mean right now, present un uh present substantiated, clear, and verifiable evidence to support those allegations or withdraw the false claims to prevent further damage and publicly apologize to myself and the Lancaster County citizens. I'll submit this to the clerk and I'll email Miss Jennifer with it. Would you pass that down?

Thank you, everyone. Thank you sir. Um we will now consider ourselves into citizens comments. Um we have had two people that have signed up to speak. Please remember that this period is not a dialogue with the planning commission or a question and answer session. This is a citizens opportunity to address the planning commission with your concerns. We ask that you address the planning commission as a body and not to address any individual commissioner. When your name is called, please come to the dis adjust the microphone as needed and state your name and address for the record. You will have three minutes to address the planning commission and your time will not start until after you have stated your name and address. We ask the rest of the attendees please repa refrain from interrupting the speaker. Thank you. Would Mr. Larry Bennett, please come up and state your name and address into the microphone for the record.

Hello. Um, excuse me. My name is Larry Bennett. I reside at 6495 Ancient Way in Indianland. The reason I'm here tonight is to talk about the commercial property that is at the corner of 160 and Barbville Road. There have been many um concerns have been brought up, many violations. I'm just going to give one example which is UDO chapter 4.3.2L.2. This speaks to things like the the tree canopy, the setbacks. Um I'm not going to read the whole thing, but clearly this this has been violated. There have been many other concerns that have been brought up at many different times. Instead of going through all these concerns because it just feels like they're going nowhere, I would really ask the question, which ordinances here in Lancaster County are okay to ignore and which are ones that are important enough to enforce. Um, and I would say that the reason for non-inforcement shouldn't really matter. Just like if I'm driving home tonight and I'm doing 120 miles an hour, it really would wouldn't matter the reason. Maybe the road's clear. Maybe I have a Maserati, which I don't, but really wouldn't matter. it's, you know, I should be stopped and a license should be taken away and I should be taken to jail. So, I would just say that um there's a reason why our ordinances are in place. Things like preserving the integrity of the community, protecting our citizenry, ensuring a fair process, and past concerns that we've raised have turned into clear violations. We have further concerns on this property. And so I would just implore the board to look to the UDEO that you all do have in place currently that demand from staff and developers the same standards that you really expect from the uh citizenry here in Lancaster County. And thank you for your your time. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr. Bennett. Our next speaker is Janine Clifton. Please come up. Please come up and state your name and address for the record. Okay, Janine Clifton, 2023 Oliver Terrace, Indianland, South Carolina, and I'm back about the commercial development on the corner of Fort Mill Highway and Barberville Road. Um, by way of an update, um, based on county's own outside legal counsel interpretation of the UDO and Melanie Lane and moreover the entire current subdivision, the short answer is it came back illegal. They're violating the UDEO and it shouldn't be continuing forward. Um, unfortunately, we've had that answer for three weeks and we even submitted a formal complaint about it, but for the last three weeks, we've heard nothing. Um, somebody's dragging their feet because the only path to possible um to go forward is a variation in the regulations. Um, so much has already been done and that variation is going to require the project to come forward to you guys. Um, somebody's doing everything they can to delay it coming forward to inevitably coming forward to you. So, you can you can put reasonable judgment over the terrible development. So, what I'm asking you for is help. Let's bring this to a head. The attorneys have made their decisions. We're watching it keep progressing every day. I've come to six to eight weeks of meetings between you guys and the council and I'm asking for help. It's been, you know, great that you brought in legal counsel from the outside to give an independent um interpretation, but now let's do something with the interpretation because I wake up now

every day to a dust storm. It's fall. I can't open up my windows. All the dirt and sand is blowing into my front windows or all over our cars. And we've actually had that intersection um totally fogged in from dust. So, you know, now the trees aren't there. So now we got the dust storm. So every week something new unfolds and I request your help in taking care of this. Thank you.

Thank you ma'am. Um that's all of our speakers for tonight. So we now consider ourselves out of public comments. We'll move on to the next item on the agenda. Our next item on the agenda is public hearing items for recommendations to council. The first item is um DA 20242253. the Haven aka Duly Track. I'm assuming to include it with the RZ. You're going to discuss those together since they're a package deal. Okay. Then also we'll do item B RZ 2024 2259 The Haven aka Duly Track. Um and who was our presenter for this? Um Kristen and I are actually tag teaming that one tonight. So, I will start out with the Yeah, I can click I will start out with the development agreement portion of the project and then she will get on to some of the details for the um actual reasonzoning that accompanies that. Um this is a project that is located um on Charlotte Highway between Henry Harris I mean Harris Hill Road and North Corner Road. It's approximately 604 and a half acres and Lenar is the current um applicant here with this project. Their intent is to create a single family residential neighborhood. Their zoning, which Kirsten will discuss more in detail later, is currently RN. They are requesting a medium density residential zoning um with the cluster subdivision overlay, which requires a development agreement. they have submitted the development agreement with their um intents. These are some of the highlights on the development agreement as it exists now. Um they proposed to create a special tax

district. They propose to be exempt from future impact fees. They're proposing to create approximately 926 dwellings on the 600 acres. They're also um proposing to have mobile homes in advance of the final plat availability. Um the box to the right is the proposed um dwelling to housetop fees that they um are offering to pay through the development agreement currently. Um as we mentioned earlier before council has seen this item and has created an ad hoc committee. The ad hoc committee had one meeting but has postponed any other options or meetings until you guys have met because they felt that your information was important and they wanted to get your rules and insight and recommendations prior to them looking at anything on this. So, they do have another meeting scheduled after this meeting and they will look at your um recommendations along with staffs to begin negotiations with the development agreement. I did prepare a list of things that the county attorney and staff have looked at that we're hoping to try to standardize some of the agreements and to highlight some of the concerns that we have. Um, we had a preliminary version of the document that I created that list against. So you may note as you compare that document to the proposed development agreement in your packet that a couple of those items have been addressed and so they may be on my list but are shown properly in the development agreement. Others were not um adhere um taken into account when they did their final proposed version. Um, after today, I will take all of your information and notes to the ad hoc committee and they will, um, use that to help make their next steps to present to council. Um, if you have any questions

on this part, I am here to help and then Kristen will take over the resoning part and then the applicants are here as well. Any questions for Miss Williams? Doctor, good. You're gonna get me with that every time. I am.

If it's not you, it's commission. Keep me on my toes. Um, thank you so much, Miss Williams. Uh, like she said, I'll be covering their reszoning. As she mentioned, it is currently zoned rural neighborhood. They are requesting medium density residential with the cluster subdivision overlay. You've got your use chart right there that kind of shows you how the area is being used around it. It all for the most part aligns with residential, combination of rural, a little bit of commercial, uh, which I do believe a piece of the commercial, that GB kind of down there at the bottom. Uh, the intent for this area is is for that to remain, uh, as they move forward. And, uh, if you'll notice, there is a piece cut out kind of on the back end there. That 14 acre piece is being uh, excluded from this proposal. Um, it's to be retained by the owner. This map shows you the comprehensive uh the future land use from the comprehensive plan. So as you can see the majority of the property does lie within growth area just south of neighborhood. Um so it does typically align with MDR on the right hand side. The last piece uh is currently designated as rural. Um but given the comparatively small size, the 23 acres in comparison to the 608 uh and that the comprehensive plan is not a regulatory document, uh MDR can be per permissible in this zone. uh due to the alignment with the comprehensive plan, the fact that they're requesting a development agreement to get the cluster subdivision overlay, and that it aligns with the residential use of the area. Staff does recommend approval of this resoning request. And I'm here for any questions. And like Miss Williams stated, the applicant is here.

Thank you, ladies. Um, anyone have any commissioner? Anybody have any questions for staff at this time? All right. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Um, applicant is here. Would you like come up to the DIA, state your name and address for the record, and then speak your piece?

Sure. Um, madame chair, commissioners, and staff, my name is John Hardy. My address is 515 Deian Drive, Rock Hill, South Carolina. I just uh left Lancaster County uh for family reasons uh recently. Um really thankful for the opportunity to speak with you tonight um about the haven at North Corner. Uh many of our team is here along with u ESP and Associates, our design and engineering firm along with DRMP, our traffic analysis firm is here as well. if you have any specific questions related to that. Um, we at Lenar are honored to be the builder developer uh that the owners of the Haven, the Douly family have chosen to develop their family's property uh should it be approved. The Douly family have been property owners in Lancaster for 53 years. We're also honored to currently be building homes in the county uh at Rosland across from uh the Haven on 521. Since living in Lancaster County for 18 years, I've been involved in many new neighborhoods, commercial and retail sites, helping assemble parklands, and the dedication of hundreds of acres to the Kataba Valley Land Trust with Lindseay Pettis. I'm personally more excited about the Haven than anything else I've done in the county um over the last 35 years. And the reason why is because it's pos the positive impact that it can serve for our county and this city. Uh it can help augment the growth necessary to return Lancaster to the golden age. I anticipate that you'll hear a little bit tonight from the vocal minority and I would urge you to do what I did

which is talk to the silent majority. I had over the last few months I've had the opportunity to talk with small businesses and some large businesses throughout the county. The South 200 restaurant, Balloon Express, Williams Financial Services, J&J Autoports, Williams Flooring, Palmetto Flooring, Cooper Furniture, Raise Flowers, Cafe Taylor, CB's Technology, Family Dollar, Preppy Pineapple, Founders, Lancaster Eye Care, Pizza Inn, Four Seasons Tanning, G&D Antiques and Collectibles, and a slew banks and yes, even a couple funeral homes. Um, these folks want new affordable homes near town, just a few miles from from right here. Uh, you know, these these places along with the grocery stores, the banks, and uh all the business I noted primarily employ local Lancaster folks, and they want well-designed neighborhoods such as the Haven at North Corner. They need affordable neighborhoods within the county. Some facts about the neighborhood that Miss Williams went over. Um it's 604.56 acres. We propose 1.57 homes per acre. Even though MDR is 2 and a half homes per acre, uh the land plan that you have in front of you and that's on the board um is 1.57 homes per acre. there. As you can see, there's 168 acres of common open space on that site, and that does not include the acreage for

the uh already there. The 168 acres is 132 football fields. It's five times larger than uh Lancaster High School campus. It's five times larger than USCL. Um, so it's quite uh a a bit of common open space. Some facts about the con council conversations regarding proposed development agreement. We're in discussion, as as Miss Williams said, with three members of council. Um, we've proposed the development agreement because Lenar understands there are county needs for increased services and infrastructure improvements. Lenar wants to help alleviate along with the current land owners current infrastructure needs by proposing land be donated towards a new elementary school uh as far south or as far to the bottom of the page as you can see. Uh we proposed it says 12.5. It's really 12.87 acres there. Um, in addition to the far right, uh, you'll see plus or minus 5 acres for, uh, a convenience center and plus or minus 3 acres for a fire and EMS station. So, we're we're trying to help solve the infrastructure needs that county council and many of the residents of the county are hopeful for. In the proposed development agreement, we're also agreeing to pay the county $1,221,394 as a public safety payment comprised of a per home amount of $138 for sheriff, 128 for EMS, and $1,53 for fire totaling $1,319 per home. In addition, Lenard proposes to pay

Lancaster School District $2,200 per home, which is a grand total of $2,37,200 to help with school needs. And Lenard proposes to pay Lancaster County towards parks and recreation, another $825,992, which is $892 per home. This is in addition to when we floated the bond money on Rosland. The county also got $600,000 from that the bond proceeds there towards the park. So, I wanted to point that out. The grand total was $4,84,586 in monies in addition to the lands previously mentioned. the main boulevard as you can see uh as you come south on 521 there is a break uh in the median and there's a securitous um boulevard that has no homes fronting on that boulevard. So everything east of 521 um should the uh school system except the acreage for the school, all those children on the from east of 521 could actually take that boulevard and get to the school without getting on 521. So from a safety and security perspective, we thought through that as well. Um, lastly, with county approval, we will establish a special tax district, as I've done at Sun City and the Treetops and the Retreat, the Glenn, the Grove, uh, Bair Carolina Reserve, $90 per year per home to aid to enhance public services or fire protection. at the buildout the short the um special tax district will bring in $83,340

per year should the county want it in perpetuity so forever that money comes in the first time it was done was at Sun City so that the there would be full-time fire and EMS because of the need for the age restricted so we just carried that through with everything that we've done as I conclude I want everyone to know that LAR is a very active part of Lancaster County today and a large part of some businesses that are housed here and uh their address is here in Lancaster County. During 2024, we paid um for materials and labor to Lancaster businesses 6,26,757. And thus far in 2025 through September, 5,846,195, fast approaching 7 million by year's end. We at Lenar and on behalf of the Douly family, we thank you for your time and we're here to answer any questions um that you may have. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Hardy. Um commissioners, do you have any any questions for the applicant? I have one. What's the total number of houses you're putting in here? 926 are proposed and they would be an equal number of 50 foot, 60 foot, and 70 foot wide homes. Yes, sir. Evening, Mr. Hardy. Thank you for coming down. Thank you.

Um, I'm going to jump right into Have you been able to review, and I'm just asking for clarity, the comments that the staff, uh, planning department staff have had around the development agreement, uh, the proposed language versus their proposed amendment to the language? Yes, sir. we have um and we took some of them into consideration and others we thought we would actually negotiate with county council. So, we're well aware of what staff has put as a proposal.

Okay. Uh just some of them. Uh um I I I would say uh the one that first sticks out to me in section 401 here about the school fees and the and that the property is not subject to impact fees, but you're offering up about 20 $3,500 um per unit. Is that what I'm really kind of seeing here? Well, for the school it's $2,200.

Yeah. Okay. You're you're right. I misspoke on that part. So, um, being that, uh, otherwise in the county the current impact fees are almost 9,000, that you're while I appreciate that you're moving forward with a offer anyway where it's not a requirement here, that is very, very good. We've asked for that kind of thing historically and you're coming to the table with something. So, thanks for that. But, I'm curious why the the offering is a quarter of what the actu the current impact fees for the rest of the county or the polipable areas anyway. Yeah, the Indian land area is really what you're referring to. Well, there's no impact fees in this part of town. Obviously, with a donation of the land for an elementary school, which is really needed when we we actually went in and talked with uh the school board.

So, they could use uh elementary school. So between the donation for the land for that as long as well as the other things we're talking about for land being donated, we thought the 2200 was more than fair relative to what other builders and developers have offered even recently as a few weeks ago.

Okay. Um, and then there's some other comments too that I'm I'm not going to read through the whole thing, but there's some other suggestions around like uh uh 30 third party fees that were a cap initiated in in 2000 that it's uh 25 years later. And I'm sure everybody's aware of the increase in costs. It at some point here it might be imperative to jump on top of that as well. Um, uh, I'm really kind of hinting around here that you have spoken with them, uh, and and reviewed a lot of this. And like I said, I do appreciate that there is an effort here to do something that other people can't seem to understand that is is is beneficial to the community. So, thank you for your responses.

Sure. Thank you. Yes, ma. What is the price point of these homes right now? two years or so before it would even open. Um we're at an average sales price of $479,000. And can you tell me where that's affordable housing? Well, relative to the balance of the county, especially in Indian land where it's well over $600,000 today. When I say average, that means that there's substantially uh a substantial number of homes underneath that and a substantial number over that. So that's the average. We actually believe we'll start at 350 um for on the smaller home sites.

Okay. I'm I maybe it's me. I'm confusing or confused between average versus affordable. Uh $350,000 in today's new home market is extremely affordable. I guess I'd have to meet those people that consider that extremely affordable. We have people hanging on by their fingernails. But thank you. That answers the question.

I would be happy to show you each of the existing communities from Walnut Creek, the retreat at Rayfield, Belair, Carolina Reserve, and all those communities as to how those prices have increased over time and what those averages are today. We're probably on average 200 to $250,000 less at the 350. And I could be totally out of line here, but all the places you mentioned have a lot of people who work in Charlotte with salaries that are commensurate with those properties. And all the businesses you talked about who would benefit from this being there don't seem to generate the same type of salaries that would um support a $400,000 house. I think

you mean a $350,000 house. Well, I mean 400,000. You mean the average? I mean, what you started out with saying 400,000 when you first started answering the question. Um, so I'm I just I think it's comparing apples and oranges to compare something that is located here closer to Lancaster and Indian Land, which is closer to Charlotte. And so I don't mean to belabor the point. I just wanted to know where we're talking about for affordable housing. Thank you. May I say something?

Um, I do have a question and it brought some concern when the staff brought it up. Um, the word intended and proposed. Um, the intended does that mean once it is written, what's the uh probability of that being changed?

I don't know what you're referring to though. seen um whenever they said this is intended to be I think there was 14 acres over here and there's a couple of things here u this is a really large development um and what you propose and what you continue to stay I'm assuming is what I'm trying to ask um what 14 acres did you bring Oh, the current the venue that's currently there. So, what we're looking at right now is basically what you are planning to bring to the table all the way around.

Yes, ma'am. Um, there's no Is all this going to be developed all at one time? Are you planning to because you know the 600 acres is all that going to be developed at one time? Will it be phases? It'll be phased from the front towards the back. Um, and as far as the clearing goes, does that mean that it will be cleared in phases? It's not just going to go in and just knock out the 600 acres all at one time because there are a lot of my concerns just as well, it's a lot of acreage and it's, you know, coming straight into our our town. Um

there are requirements from the county that standards we have to meet in clearing only certain areas at one time. So many acres at at a time. Am I saying that properly? Okay. Um so no not not all 600 acres will be cleared at one time. No ma'am. Okay. We wouldn't want to put that many uh lots on the ground at one time. we would want to phase that in over time from a you know opening.

I think my question on that too is the affordable housing because you know I agree that the 400 something thousand and and I understand that that is probably the medium of what houses are. Um with it having a new subdivision, there's so many opening right now and there's I mean there's not that many jobs. I understand there's going to be people coming this way and and I love the growth uh when it's smart growth.

Sure. when it's smart growth and we're thinking about the citizens, you know, we're thinking about what Lancaster, what's going to benefit Lancaster the most. Um, so I think these are just some of the questions. You understand also that the the people who own the land are going to sell the land. Um, and obviously you want to have somebody in there that's going to come and bring the best proposal that we we could possibly get um for this for this project. So, um, that's just some of the top of the top of the head questions I just wanted to ask. So, if that way Thank you. The only thing I wanted to say was um you were discussing the um the price of the houses and as a realtor I can tell you 350 up is what everybody's looking for. I mean that's that's a I know now we do I do sell a lot less but most people are looking for that price range.

Yes ma'am. Even in my area of Kershaw and um so I understand that the price range. I I definitely see that now. It could change, but right now that's where it's at. Yes, ma'am. And if I may, um we do extraordinary competitive market analysis and what the demand is. And to your point, you live it every day as we do.

The the price points really are, you know, 350 and up. You just can't find anything. the value of the land and how much it cost. Right now in the last five years, the cost to develop, put the sewer, the water, the asphalt, the concrete, the the whatever it is has gone up over 76% in the last 5 years. And and we're a big national builder, so we can purchase from Atlanta. We can purchase from wherever we need to, but the cost, the hidden costs are incredible in today's environment,

you know, and and it's not the tariffs. It's stuff that started happening five years ago. So, I wish we could go less. I wish we could go less, you know. Commissioner Kurin. Yeah. So, uh my question was on the potential future school site. Is is this um donation of land contingent upon the other projects that other two projects that are going on or are you just donating the land period? Like am I am I concerned about if the other ones don't get approved? Are the land still going to get donated?

If if this one gets approved, this 12 point I think it's 12.87 acres if the school wants it will be donated to them. In addition, Meritage and MPV Bailey Patrick who own the land to the south that the other approximately 12 and a half acres um for the elementary school um their pro whether theirs gets approved or not, it'll be it'll be available for Lancaster School Board to have that property. No contingencies.

No contingencies. Now, would they like their zoning to be approved and they'll donate it? Yes, if their project's not approved, the land will be available for the school board to get. But our property that we're talking about is a donation if our deal was approved. I hope that's clear. Thank you. Um, hi, thanks for being here. Um, okay. I'm I I have a lot to to think about and go over and and a lot of thoughts with this, so bear with me if I'm like a ping-pong ball going all over the place. Grab my water if that's okay.

Yeah, please do. Um, so I think um when I first looked at the development agreement, um I'm going to start with my concerns because those are the questions that um I would want answered. It is a bit concerning when we're looking at this project and knowing the other projects to the south that um we tabled last month that we know are coming and we're all looking at the donation of the land that um Miss Carrison just asked you about. I love that you guys are donating something um to the county. It shows good faith and and effort to help meet demands um especially with all the lessons learned up in Indian land. So that is appreciate appreciated. Um the concern though is that would we still get the school should that not the others not pass? And while you're saying it's not contingent on that, there's really no guarantee though that that would actually happen and you're not able to provide us that. So it is a risk that we would be taking in approving this hoping that that would come to pass. So that is a concern. Um my al another big concern is um the language in there about impact fees. Um you know we're tasked with looking at and about sending out an RFP for impact fees for the rest of the county. So knowing that this is skirting in right before the approval of that, it just doesn't put a good taste in our mouth with um trying to start on the right foot of a good working relationship. Um it would it is a huge neighborhood um for this part of town and definitely with school age children feeding into it the impacts of other infrastructure um I'm not comfortable personally voting for something that is trying to avoid

those impact fees. So not even having the conversation about that um it it's problematic um considering it's on the horizon and something that will be you know required of all all other homes coming to the county. So it's something that we can't forget about. Um so that is another problem. I'm trying to think. Overall though, I I love the boulevard um and the flow through bringing through the space and then providing more privacy through the other um kind of areas from the neighborhood. I I love that. Um we've tried to be very thoughtful.

Yes, I appreciate the good design. So, yep, that's all I have right now. Thank you. That was what I was going to bring up. um I call it a good neighbor clause that offering 2,200 to get in before it could be much more.

Um I'm not comfortable with uh or the the developers rights are vested and the developer shall not be subject to any future impact fees or costs imposed by the county. That's just really strong language to me at a time when we are trying to learn lessons that previous people in our seats did not learn and that just is a a big red flag for me.

Absolutely. We're trying to be better stewards with, you know, the decisions that we're making. um thinking of, you know, we have the responsibility as as a planning commission of is this the best project for this piece of land? Because especially these large parcels along 521, we realize it's not a matter of if these are going to be developed, it's a matter of when and is this the best fit for that property? Um you know, I I I don't know. So, we're hoping that when we do go into a working relationship with moving a project along that we have good faith in the promises being made. And and some of the the word the wording in that is problematic. And, you know, I mean, no disrespect by this, but it is also a little concerning with, you know, Roslin where it it changed after it was approved to a 55 and older community. Um, and that wasn't we weren't told that, you know, that the existing planning commission wasn't told that. Um, or council before that was approved. And frankly, I I I know that's not the case with this one, but trust a little bit is diminished. And and we we need to see those things in writing. I you have in writing from when I reszoned Rosland that it could be 50% traditional family and 50% age restricted or 100% of either.

So there was no misleading whatsoever. And those were my words that are on record here at the county from 17 or 18. I'm not sure the year. We closed in 2019, December 19th of 2019 with the Norman family. So there was never a misleading. It was 100% disclosed. And that's why I did 5050. I even talked to the Lancaster school board to tell them and it's in writing and you have it here somewhere

that the children would not go to Indian Land, but they would go to Lancaster High School. And I had two stepchildren that went to Lancaster High School. So I liked Lancaster High School. All that is in writing and you have it all and it's on public record. So there was never any misleading. Matter of fact, Miss Hinson, I think you were you were available at that time. Yes, I was. Um, so I don't take any, you know, but I don't take well, I do take it a little personally because those are my words, right?

And I've done I've personally reszoned over 8,000 homes in this county. And you know, some people that will probably talk in a little bit think I bought my way into the county. I will assure you that I lived here for 18 years. I care about this county. And all the donations that came in over time and they were truly donations uh were because safety, security, schools, roads, infrastructure, those are the words I use. So I just want to go back and say Rosland never changed. So, anybody that believes that should go back and check the records. And I miss I believe Miss Henson knows that that never changed.

I appreciate you you you saying that. Um I I think that perhaps then the misconnection is with the regional park, right, which will attract a large amount of children and then it's going to be in in the middle of a 55 and over community is is a bit um well, I'm not I'm not sure what it means, but it it would probably be somewhat problematic because if I'm buying into a neighborhood that doesn't have children and then we're, you know, surrounded by tournaments and you know it it just opens the door for you know potential problems. We don't have to get into that. Well, but can I respond to that? Okay,

if you don't mind. So, I'm an active adult and uh I lived in Sun City for a couple of years when I built it. Um kudos to you. Those I'm sorry. Kudos to you. You know, I checked every

I only had one person knock on my door. Just a fiber. Um those people love children. They're the they're the greatest volunteers this country ever had. Those people 55 and better, they devote their time to help teachers at schools. Miss Hinsson knows. It's incredible to think that they will share. In in in a past life, we called those communities anthems where you had traditional family members along with, you know, age restricted. And as long as those age restricted folks have their own pool and they have a place to have a glass of wine and a stogy, they don't care that there's children in that community. They truly don't. They're the greatest grandparents in any generation. So to think that the park is going to do anything except um they'll donate their time to make that park spotless. They will just like at Sun City they donated to Indianland High School tennis for them to play on that court because they didn't have enough courts to bring have home home tournaments. So I I I urge you to call me. I'll give you my cell phone number. We'll talk about it for hours. This generation of active adults is incredible and the park won't be a problem for them. So

may I Yes, ma'am. Um, I don't know everyone in Sun City, so I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that some of the feeling is they love children that are related to them. Um, it's anecdotal, but just yesterday, they hired a food truck to do the trunk or treat event, and the food truck advertised everybody come out to Sun City. And boy did that get shut down in a hurry.

This is for Sun City residents only. And they fired the uh food truck and made clear. So it's anecdotal, but I'm just saying I think it's a rather broad brush to say I will be the first person to sit here and I don't really care what people think. If I was in a 55 and older community with all the restrictions that brings, how long my children could come to visit, how long my grandchildren could come and there's a park over there and it's a public park. That's not going to fly with me. That's not what I bought into. Now, I might be the the exception, the only mean person on the block. uh you're

to say that people in a 55 and older community love children and would embrace them when they don't know them and they're coming in. I think that's a stretch.

Well, let let me let me say that when we disclose what's in and around a neighborhood, which we disclose a five mile radius, it's called a MDIA, I believe that we put together, um the public park is disclosed. If they don't want to buy there, they don't have to buy there. But as you as you probably know, the active adult is the greatest user of public parks and walking and recreation and things like that. You know, I I go to the Fort Mill Park sometimes and I just see tons of people walking and there's children playing, etc. So, you know, I don't mean to broad brush it, but I think it's I I think it's the other way when we say that an active adult community with an 83 acre park doesn't make sense. I I just think that that's wrong.

I think the bottom line of all of our questions is, is there something in here that says this will not be a 55 plus community? That's I think that's we can put something like that in. I would like that because I think we have enough 55 plus communities in Lancaster County right now. And so yeah, we can absolutely that's the bottom that's the bottom line of all of these questions. I wish somebody would have said that because I could have said, "Yeah, we Okay, that's what we'd like to see something that this cannot be a 55 plus community."

I have another question to um Commissioner Lou's um comment about not knowing the children in the area. You know, we talked about having common places so that law enforcement, so that uh active adults, whomever can know the children in the community so it doesn't become a um so you actually establish community and get to know people. 926 homes is just it's a it's overwhelming. It's a lot. And so we just want to understand like how the connectivity and I don't mean just the streets. I'm talking about the bonding, the strength of knowing my neighbor is going to happen. Particularly when we don't have um we don't really have places for our um uh older I don't mean like high school, but you know, I'm going to say junior high and older kids to go. Yeah. particularly after school like we want to create something where it's they're not idle where their minds are

yeah they'll be um right up front behind that behind that lake that's right off of 521 you see that large I'll call it pink maybe it's magenta or fuchsia but amenity area we'll have a large clubhouse there uh with rooms and uh pool um there'll be pickle ball uh there'll I I don't I don't think we'll have tennis There'll be playground there. Um, and throughout the neighborhoods, you know, if you were to drive through through Tree Talks, you would see what we call learning lawns, places where there's benches where, you know, uh, the public can get together and meet and greet. There'll be dog parks in here for folks to get together. Um, so, you know, there's opportunities to have the public, uh, the police and so on, meet the the children. For sure. I'm sorry to interject. You mean the general public can get together or you mean the the public?

No. And I think that's what she meaning. 926 homes. She wanted our teams to be able to meet the ones who live there in the community. All right. Just the ones who live in the community. Okay. Yes. That's a start and we can just replicate that. Hopefully, I think that's a a a great thought and under under uh Sheriff Fail, I think he he reaches out very well.

I have a question on that school donation again. Is that enough? Can staff tell me is that enough property on its own for a school or would they have to buy the material the other lands to make I think it's 25 is the minimum. They need 20 they they request 25 acres.

Okay. So that donation is um no strings attached but we don't know what the prices would be obviously because you are not in charge of those other ones. But it could be no guarantee that the county could afford to add the other ones on if they're turned down. And then what would happen with that property? We happen to know the seller of that property down below. And based upon what um the school board paid for the Indian land, which I believe was $34,000 an acre, I believe it would be less than that for that 12 acres addition.

You're familiar with the phrase over a barrel? No, ma'am. Okay. It's just if they need it and they're between a rock and a hard place, the the county to get it, there's no guarantee of of what the amount would be because the county would have this lovely donation from you and I'm I'm truly that that's wonderful, but then it would be, you know, whatever the market would bear for them to make a

I think during our ad hoc committee meeting with Mr. Moeller and Mr. KS and Mr. Graham that we could probably come to a agreed upon amount with the the owner of the land to the south.

I've got just one more question. I know ma'am we've discussed price point. I know you've got your dream line. Are you going to have some of the some of the dream line houses in here? I know those are your No, ma'am. Okay. Would you like to see what we're proposing? I saw it I saw it in the package. I just I just can't tell by there's no there's no American dream line in that package. No. Okay.

And had did we come to any I know that we talked about it, but did we hear anything from you about if the county enacts um any future impact fees where you you stand on that as as opposed to what you have now that you will not be subject to it? Is there any room for compromise there? Um, I think I would have to have that discussion with Mr. M and I think Mr. Meler, Mr. Kins, and Mr. Graham are very good negotiators on behalf of the county. Um, I think I think that there's always room for discussion and potential change.

You do know it's our job to make a recommendation, you know, based on what we have in front of us, not what might I absolutely do. And I believe that what's in front of you is an extremely fair development agreement today that I believe Mr. Mostellar, Mr. KS, and Mr. Graham um will push us for more. We'd rather not push. We'd rather have you give with a free hand. I I won't do that today. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Um going back to and I feel like we're beating a dead horse here. So, um, where is the which road? Is it a new road that will be for the school site that's not included in your property?

Um, to the south. Yeah. Um, where the school site it actually there will be a road that ties into that school site. Okay. Um, yeah, probably that yellow one right there. But I'm saying there will the school buses be coming through that neighborhood? the what I'm getting at is you know Lancaster them to come through on the boulevard. Okay. And just that's just that's for dropping off and picking up kids. I'm talking about the main road that would be the main indirect egress of the school because that has to be that has to be a public road. That can't be a private road. If you go to page two, okay, the second page, I should say, not page two, the second page, um, in the gray and I don't know if

Okay, but you can see the road I'm talking about is in their property. So, my question is not for you. My question is for them. Well, we will have a road that connects down through it as you can see on that. Yes. Um so and and again I feel certain that u working with that land seller down below we can make sure that um the road from our site in yellow will tie in through their property to the school site.

Yeah that's what I'm what I'm my concern is uh we know that technically Lancaster County is not accepting any new roads. So if the school goes through that boulevard that goes by, that will have to be a public road. That piece will have to be. So I was like, I said, that's a conversation I have for them because they're going to be the ones building that road. But let me ask a question. The retreat is public, isn't it? That's right. The retreat is public. Sorry. I was going to say and I know I know I know the bullet

on the private roads. Well, no. I'm talking about the entrance road to the school. That has to be a public road. That can't be a private road. Correct. Because it's the it's the school district. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those are that those aren't my rules. That's somebody else's rules. So, like I said, so yeah, my that that'll be for they're coming what next month?

Yes. School sites um are required. There are the state requires that. So, they have their own permitting and approval processes. So, that would be um DOT and the school board involved in that as well. I have one more uh question for clarification. So if you know if the potential future school site isn't approved then they all get shuffled past Lancaster High School all the way to Buford. Is that what I'm understanding? That's I would think these children would go to Lancaster High School. No, it says that they're in I asked that question before the meeting. This is actually in the Buford school district. Oh.

So they would be I I because I was like you. I'm like why are they not going to Lancaster? But I've already asked that question. When they when they redrrew the school districts, this is now part of Buford. So I was like, that's a long way to go. So I already asked that question. From 521, they're going to go. I already asked that question because I'm like you. I saw Buford in there. All right. Do we have any more questions? Can we let Mr. Hardy sit down and go to the next F?

One. One more. Mr. Arty, you didn't run out of water, did you? The uh um in the in the development agreement here, section 110, the term uh of 10 years of effective for the development agreement and five additional um with approval is what I think I read this right. So, a total of 10 to 15 years to build and sell every lot basically. Well, we are always very conservative when we put stuff in writing like that. Um, this could sell out, you know, at 150 a year. So, what's that like seven years?

Okay. My concern being something that everybody up here has witnessed that we're not overly excited about the opportunity for an 83y year extent. Totally agree. So we can we can work on the the timing. Thank you sir. Yes ma'am.

So I would like to input a little bit into that. The state code that allows for development agreements has a pretty set straightforward allowance. So there's so many acres of highland. So if you have I think 0 to 250 and don't quote me on the numbers because I haven't memorized it but there's a certain scale and that you are only allowed a 5year term. Anything over that to a different is allowed for a 10 and then anything bigger. So statutoily, I do believe based on the information here that he's restricted to a 10-year term with the option to extend per the code. All right. May I ask question? Yes.

So the the land owner for the southern piece is here and he'd like to speak for a moment if you're okay with that because you had a lot of questions regarding the school site. Um, not at this moment, but anything. But he's not the He's not the applicant. Just selling the property. They have an agenda item next month. Yes. So, you'll be able to talk to them next month. Okay. That's the only reason why. Yes. Okay. But thank you. We appreciate it. Tell him thank you. We appreciate his effort to be willing to speak. Thank you.

All right. So, um, if we're done with our questions, we'll now consider ourselves, you get, you could have a right to come back and rebuttal after the public hearing. Um, now that we're done with all our questions, we're now to consider ourselves into public hearing. Um, we have three people, um, signed up to speak. So, uh, when I, um, call your name, come up and state your name and address for the record, and then you'll have three minutes to speak. Libby Sweet Lambert.

Hi, my name is Libby Sweat Lambert. Thank you.

And it's PO Box 4, Van White, South Carolina. But more importantly, I'm 3480 Activity Road. So all of this work between both properties will be in my front yard basically and down the road. I live on a dirt road. We have lived on our dirt road for 25 years. We brag about living on a dirt road. We brag about living in the country. We brag about how peaceful and quiet. And yesterday we had someone down at our property talking about um they were doing some business with me and the fella sat there and he said, "For 20 minutes, I have not heard a car. I have not heard a blaring horn. I have not heard city noise." And guess what? That's why we're building our new house there. We tore down our old house. Our new house isn't even finished. And now all of this is going to be destroying what is near and dear to us. One of those roads you keep referencing will cross over our dirt road. So what do you think will happen to our dirt road? What do you think will happen when all of the trees start coming down on 600 acres for this property and then the acres for the project next door to it? How is my life going to be affected by all of this? I am one of the negative people that he

refers to as the minority. But for weeks now, for actually a few months, I have been going door to door to door talking to people down Craig Farm activity, North Corner, Cedar Circle, Bill Sweat Road. I have yet to find one of the neighbors who is anywhere near supportive of this project. Please take care of us that have been paying our taxes for a quarter of a century, who have volunteered in the communities, who have worked as hard as my family has. It is a slap in the face when we're not listened to. It is unfair to those of us who have owned our property and have invested. And I have nine seconds to say thank you for listening to me.

Well, ma'am, um you actually signed up. We have two agenda items. So, you actually get to speak twice. So, if you'd like to take three more minutes, you are entitled three more minutes. I would um because Sorry. Um they actually have to be two separate hearings. So she can sit down, rest a second, and come right back.

Neighbors come up and take a turn. Thank you, ma'am. I was I say, um, let me get the other person on the list and then I'll take care of you. So now we have Steve Lambert. Hi, I'm Steve Lambert and I live with my wife at 3480 Activity Road and I'm surprised she didn't take you up on the three minutes. Uh, happily I am now known as part of the vocal minority. Um, and that local minority includes my neighbors that live on eight and 10 acre lots here and four and five acre lots there. We've got 15 acres here. These people have several acres to their house. There's more than one acre per house on these lots. That's what we're surrounded with. That's that's what we live with right now. Again, we bought our property 25 years ago and several years after that, I was happy to find the UDEO. I read through it and found that my land is zoned for stickuilt houses on one acre per house. I thought, okay, great. Boy, somebody was having some forethought about the nature of the rural area. They were having some forethought about preserving property values. I thought it was great to have a UDO to protect my property value. These people come along, they want to put 900 houses in here, and they're

talking to you about numbers like one house per nine, 1.5, I forgot the the number, but I was looking at the map earlier, got my phone out and did some math. They have a lot that's 50x 130, another lot that's 60 by 130, and a lot that's 70 ft by 130 ft. Turns out there's 43,650 square feet in an acre. I did the math. Their lot sizes are coming in at five for the small acre or the small lot and 0.2 two. I I was coming in here to argue about quarter acre lots, but no, it's fifth acre lots and 16th acre lots that are going to just drive down the property values and go completely against the nature of rural north uh Lancaster County. So, I wanted to keep my comments brief. I wanted to keep it down to the UDO, the one acre per house, stickuilt homes, which they're doing that. But then I I heard about the school and I'm going to characterize that as dangling a carrot in front of you. They're proposing to give you land for an elementary school. An elementary school feeds a junior high school, a high school. They're all much more expensive. Much more expensive. Now, do I have three more minutes?

You have to come back. You can finish on your the next one because you signed up for the other item. Okay. Well, I can finish it up by saying uh I'm opposed. Thank you, sir. Um so, um can I do can I do both of these before I go to the next phase since we're doing them together? Um, so you have the one lady that you said could speak after this one. You have to formally close that one, open the other one, and then we go on. If you want to close the public hearing, vote on that item and then go to the public hearing, you can do that as well to come. So to get that one off your plate and then just deal with the other one.

All right. So I will let you speak on the on the second one. So let's do this. Um, where am I? So, um, so, um, I'm going to finish complete this and come out of public hearing for this item, which is, um, DA 2024 2259, the Haven, aka the DY property. And we're going to finish this one and then we're going to go into our second item which is RZ 2024 22259 the Haven aka Duly Track. Um ma'am if you will come up here and write in your name here I will let you speak first and then I will get the other two ladies on this one. That's quite all right. Right there. Number three. Thank you, ma'am. Just go ahead and go up to the DS and I'll have you speak first.

Yes, ma'am. So, if you please state your This is uh Deborah Cox. Please state your name and address for the record, please. And you have three minutes.

Okay. My name is Deborah Cox. I live at 330 Turz of Church Road. Um, the issues that I would like for y'all to address is the road that I live on used to be dirt road. It is now secondary paved. It's only 20 20 foot wide. It don't even have lines on it. Um, there would be more problems, issues with these 900 something houses that he's talking about. Um, my daddy bought this property where I live at now. Oh, I'm nervous. Oh, we're all friends.

I'm 60 years old. My daddy was 85 years old. Passed away last year. He bought this property 40 years ago. Um, he would turn over in his grave. He know that. But, um, I want to preserve the property that he left me. Um, my siblings have property. We have 12 acres in total. uh peaceful, quiet. You got a lot of roadkill up there now. Um the traffic is 30 miles an hour, but once they took it from dirt road to road, these people be going down the road 60 m an hour. Um animals get killed, you better make sure your kids don't go next to that road. And it's not really, it's a public road, but it's not um the dump trucks, all kinds of issues that's going on. I called the law, get them to come patrol the roads. Um they don't have enough employees to filter Indian Land and Lancaster. So with all these houses, it's going to be more traffic. So you're creating more problems when you need to, you know, take care of what problems we already have. So I'm done.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to me.

Thank you, ma'am. Now, Miss Libby um Sweat Lambert, you have three more minutes. Please state your name and address again for the record. Hi, I'm Libby Sweat Lambert, PO Box 4, Van Wike, 3480 Activity Road. Whenever I've been researching what is required to add in that many homes infrastructure-wise, how is it going to happen? We can talk about adding this many thousands of dollars in. We can offer up land for school, but we are already so far behind with our infrastructure in this county that by adding 900 homes and then 400 more houses and then all of the others that have been approved, it is going to take never to catch up. We're never going to be able to catch up with our infrastructure, just the land, and building a house on it and saying, "Oh, well, they're going to pay taxes and we're going to add this and we're going to add this." That doesn't cover all of the expenses that are associated when you add this many more houses in and this many more people in. It doesn't. There's no way the math can make it work, you know. Um, agriculture. I didn't come when the county council was having all the fights about the chickens, but guess what? I have lots of chickens and I'm getting more. And my turkeys are louder than my chickens. and

the donkeys that are coming in are going to be even louder. And so when you start putting all of these houses in and you start having all of these people who aren't used to county animals, farm animals, there's going to be even more problems happening. And for those of us who have water on our property and we are looking at having green space beside a portion of our property, who is going to keep all of the children off of our property where our water is so that we don't have drownings? How are we going to take care of all of those things? because I take care of my property. I made sure that my children could swim. I made sure my children knew the rules. But how are we going to address all of those additional safety issues going on beside that? There's just so many things that we have to think about where I live right now because we're not going to be rural if you guys approve and council approves. You're taking away my quality of life if you move this forward. Thank you, ma'am. And now Steve Lambert.

Okay. Um I didn't know that was an option. Uh Mr. Hardy, would you like to offer responses?

Yes, ma'am. So in the staff report on page four at the bottom where it's yellow alignment with comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan currently designate these tracks as a growth area within which the requested zoning district medium density residential is permitted. And then on the bottom it says the comprehensive plan serves as a guiding framework rather than a regulatory document makes the request permissible. And then when you go online and look at Lancaster County information, growth area is defined as growth areas are intended to designate areas where growth should occur based upon the availability of supportive infrastructure and land. These areas are intended to support suburban scale residential development along with supportive commercial development at major crossroads and along arterial streets and thoroughares. Supportive infrastructure required to provide development includes adequate roadways, water and sewer availability, school capacity, emergency services and similar services. I only say that because we have a major four-lane highway and we have all the infrastructure right there. Lenar spent $1 million putting in a lift station that would pump it down and that is per Lancaster Sewer and Water to open up all the way from Buford. It will pump underneath 521 and into the pump station. and you can check with James or

Wes or Mr. Booy. Um there's adequate infrastructure in place for this community to be in uh on the site that we request. Thank you. Thank you, sir. May I? Yes, ma'am. Um sir, you said one of the things you mentioned was for the infrastructure was schools and it looks to me like the Buford schools, Buford schools would take quite a hit. Uh they're currently atund 100 to 110%. I have nothing to do with that. That's the school board that decides where children go to school. I'm sorry that

Right. But your the children in this that we have to discuss tonight would go to Buford. I'm just reiterating that your point was everything is in place for your development and yet the elementary school is already at 100% or 110. I'm not telling you what I'm saying. I'm telling you what the staff said. Okay. I'm just pointing out for myself then that the school is already at 100% to 110% capacity and then 9 26

26 homes and I just came up with this and if if you'll bear with me the you're donating 12 and a half acres and again that's Great. 12 1/2 acres towards a school. Yes, ma'am.

Um I know we're kind of stuck on this impact fee and how it's suggested in the agreement that there will be no increase um to your development. If an increase goes through, if they need 12 and a half more acres for a school, why not give them 12 and a half more acres and not and then discuss not having any impact fees at all for your neighborhood, including the 2,200 per roof that you are suggesting. I just did numbers with 900 because I couldn't remember 926. But if you donated 12 and a half more acres to guarantee a school, an elementary school, that would be that would eliminate 18 houses and 18 times your 350 would be 6,300,000. Why not? And but if we did the impact fees and again I just did 900 at roughly 10,000 if it were to increase to 10,000

that would be 9 million. So it looks to me like a great deal donate 12 and a half guarantee a school for the area and then not only not tell us that we're willing to have the impact fees put on us if they are voted. You could even have a savings of over 2,000 $2 million by backing out of your own two 2200 per roof. Sounds like a great deal for me. Just donate this the land for the school outright so that there's no contingencies. What do you think of that deal? Well, I think that you're very good at math and I think you've done a really fine job

and nuns. Thank you. No, and I mean that sincerely app I think you can tell. I mean it sincerely. Yes. Absolutely. I feel certain that what I said earlier about the 34 or $35,000 per acre for the bottom 12 acres that would come with the other community on whether or not it gets approved or not. I feel certain that I can look you in eye and tell you that 35,000 per acre um will work. And I believe you. Yep. Y but it's also why I don't go to Vegas. Yeah. But to me it would I thought it's a great solution because we're stuck on this.

But but here's the here's the issue though. The school board hasn't even agreed that they want it. Okay. But if you offer them enough land for a whole school and that could be built into this also that if the school doesn't want it then that's fine. But I'm just saying that that would eliminate our concern about if the impact fees are voted in, would you be a good neighbor and say yes, we're in on that, but instead give a much lower amount by just giving enough land that 18 houses out of n you'd still be over 900. I understand your point. You would just give up 18 homes and say there's your school property.

What if I said this? What if I said that with Mr. Mostellar and this is public record, right? With Mr. Mostellar, Mr. Graham, um, and Mr. Kins, that should the Meritage Patrick land not get approved for a subdivision that we will add another 12 and a half, we will give them 25 acres. That's something that I feel that I could agree to.

Let let me interject just a moment. I think we're forgetting that this is just the land. It doesn't come with the school building on it, which is a great grander cost that we already know that the school doesn't already have, which is why we're still sitting with already zoned, ready to build land and Indian land that doesn't have the appropriate schools when our schools are beyond capacity. So, I appreciate the creativity, but I'm sorry, disagree. I was starting with the land. I was working towards the buildings, right? I mean, we if anything need more with the impact fees and the land. Um, but just to reminder, this is one piece of the puzzle.

Yeah. But the impact fees still need voted on. You know, they still need voted on. So, that's pie in the sky right now, right? Or am I wrong? Yeah. So, I think that is a very grand nice gesture that you've made that if the others doesn't go through you'll up yours to be a full be the 25 acres for a school. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Any other questions? All right. So, okay. So, commissioners, we have before us case number DA 2024 2259, the Haven aka DY track. So, do I hear a motion?

Are we talking about just the development agreement? First off, yeah, we have to do it as two separate items. We have to vote on separately. So, we're just talking about the development agreement. Motion to approve. Do I have a second? Second. And a second. All right. So, any discussion or comments from the commissioners? I do. Yes, sir.

Um, we are making a recommendation. This isn't a final decision. Um I do believe that um Mr. Hardy and Lenar have come forward with a lot more than our typical uh uh developer approaches us with. Um I also feel that a lot of the comments that staff has made regarding the development agreement that was proposed uh do fulfill a lot of our concerns. Um, I think that it is important for us to uh uh um show the importance of that to uh council when it comes time for them to review this and go through it as they have their own uh subcommittee here set up to go through this project. So, um approving a development agreement is not totally on us. making recommendations for what it should be is including whether it goes up or not. So, as he added that uh there's always room for negotiation. I may have paraphrased your your your comment there, Mr. Hardy, but uh that in the event that this does go past us that it still has to sit in front of county council three times and they will have a subcommittee reviewing this even harder. So back to my point that whatever we decide making sure that the inclusion of the comments from the staff on the proposed uh development agreement um carry enough weight.

No, I just want to I guess I wanted to understand if that was Are you finished? Yes, ma'am. I'm So, any more questions or comments? Because we've talked a lot. So, do we officially have any amendments to this?

No. Um, you can do how you did last time and make the recommendation to approve with staff comments. Um, I will take all of the things that you said and take it to the ad hoc committee and let them know all of the statements, all of the options that were put forth and that you do that you all shared um the interest in having those comments addressed and they will take that into consideration that you guys feel that the staff um comments are vital and important. If there are any that are like hard must be changed before you want it to go through, you can make those amendments. Um, i.e. I you mentioned the impact fee exemption. Um, if that's something that's a hard, you have to do it. Um, and don't want like if it's so vital that you have to have that in, you can make that amendment and that can go to um, the ad hoc and the council as well. Um, but I will be taking all of your recommendations to the ad hoc committee and then presenting both those sections to council. Do we um Miss Williams, do we have to be specific about the rest of the amendments that we want as well or

you could just approve with staff's recommendations um pending the ad hoc committee decision and that way you don't have to specifically adhere to every one of those. Um and that would just kind of be as Mr. Cavaler said that is your recommendation is your recommendation is to approve it or deny it based on the staff comments and that will go to the ad hoc committee to know that you guys are on board with some of those discussions.

I'd like to make a motion to approve and to get uh to send it back to staff. And so, uh, we'll need specific instructions that will go forward to the ad hoc committee so that we can, um, be prepared to, um, or so that they can be prepared to vote in terms of the additional suggestions and comments that we've made. Do I need to clarify that more or um so you're sending it back to staff to do another review or are you sending it back to staff to present to the ad hoc? Right.

So you would um you would just vote on the motion to approve with the recommendations. You would make the amendment to approve with staff recommendations to take it to the ad hoc and then you would just vote on the amendment. Okay. So let's see if I have this correct here. We have before us a motion that has been seconded to approve the development agreement um as long as it addresses the comments that have been made by staff and they will take those to the ad hoc committee to finalize this to take it to council

because that's a lot of words. We've had a lot of words. All right. So All right. So, um, may we have a Does everyone clear? Yes, ma'am. I'm I'm not clear on are we making an amendment about the impact fees or not? That is one of the items included in staff's comments. Comments. Okay. Believe, if I may. Yes. The motion was to approve. Miss Kuritan's comments would be an amendment to that motion. So, she has motion to amend the approval. So, we need a vote on the amendment. and then back down to the main motion. Okay, good, good call. You also need a second for that amendment.

I'll second it right now. So, we have a motion and a second to amend the original motion to approve the development agreement to include comments from staff and which will also include our comments and recommendations made here to go back to the ad hoc committee to to finalize to send to council.

Thank you. So, um, let's just do a show of hands. Who approves the motion with the amendment? So, four and that's one, two, three, five, and against. All right. So, five, four, and Miss Lou and Miss Tinkleberg against. All right. So now we have before us item number DA 2024 2529 the haven aka the duly tracked. Um can we have a roll call vote to approve this with the amendment.

Jason Cavalier approve. Yokim Mccuritan approved. Lynette Henson approve. Judiana Tinkllinberg against. Michelle Richards approved. Sheila Henson approve. Francis Lou against.

Motion passes uh five to two with Miss Lou and Miss Tinkleberg against. All right. Next item on the agenda is RZ 202242259 The Haven aka known as the DY track. Do I have um a motion? Motion to approve. Got my pages out of order. Sorry. Do I have a second?

All right. Do we have any comments or discussions about the resoning? Any comments or discussions? All right. If we have no comments or discussions, then we are voting to approve RZ 2024 2259, the Haven aka DY Track. May I have a roll call vote, please? Jason Cavalier, approve. Yokim Carton, approved. Lynette Henson approve. Judiana Tinkllinberg four. Michelle Richards four. Sheila Henson R. Francis Lou.

So um so it passes with a vote of seven to zero. Thank you very much. That was a long time getting there. Um, now we are going to the next the next item on our agenda is RZ 2025 1989 Hurley 1834, right? Yeah. Oh, it's mislabeled. See, it's got the it's got mis mislabeled. It's supposed to be RZ 2025 1989. Okay.

It says mislabeled as 1834. Yeah, there was an amended agenda for that one to correct that number that was sent out Monday. Well, I tried to find what was the difference in the agenda. So, thank you for clarifying because I could I There's absolutely nothing um different other than the ID number. It's the same project, the same thing. It was just put the wrong wrong title on there. All righty. Yes, ma'am. You have the floor or you have the con.

Thank you. Thank you. Uh good evening. Uh presenting this request for reszoning uh for a handful of parcels located on Red Hill Road uh which has road frontage on Highway 200. Just to clarify, not sure. Yeah. Interesting. Um this request is outside of the moratorum. Not sure what happened to my map there. that had it posted outside of the mortorium, but this piece is not is outside of the mortorium, so not concerned there. Uh, so like I stated, this this is on Red Hill Road for a total of 24 acres. It's three parcels. Uh, and they are asking or they're requesting rural residential uh from the current low density LDR uh residential. So, it's a request to become less dense for this request here. And then the map to the left or the graphic to the left shows you the distance from other uh zoning districts. Uh the one to the right there uh that's institutional. The blue down at the bottom is rural residential just to show that it is in the direct vicinity. Um your use chart is there as well. Uh the roofing request aligns with the the surrounding uses. It's all pretty much residential or rural residential as well. Uh the attention here is is drawn at the the graphic between lowdensity residential and rural residential. Uh because what it's showing is that uh these districts are not in direct conflict with each other. Uh they just prioritize different things. Um per the applicant's request, uh they are looking for a more diverse housing opportunity and a less regulated agricultural use. Uh and so that's the main difference between these two districts is that uh from LDR to rural residential uh there's a little bit more diverse housing option and uh they uh aren't regulated as heavily with any type of AGRA support or agricultural

use. Um so we we're not seeing a whole lot of change there. Um that's for your uses. This is your future land use map from the comprehensive plan. uh it's all in rural and rural residential matches that future land use designation in the comp plan as well. So it aligns there. And then of course you've got your goal from the comprehensive plan that says to to maintain a low density residential which rural residential is a less dense zoning district. So very rarely do we see request requests for less dense um but that is one of those uh which aligns with our comp plan again. And so because of that, the alignment with the surrounding area and the comp plan, staff recommends approval of this request. Thank you, ma'am. Um,

I'm welcome to any questions. I don't think Okay. I I was thinking I wasn't 100% sure. Uh, the applicant is here as well. If you have any questions for them, as well as me, of course, um, do you wish to get up and speak?

Well, please come up and state your name and address for the record. I'm Kathy Hurley. Um, and I live at 1195 Richmond Drive in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Um, the the initial reason for this request, um, this property has actually been in our family for a hundred years. Um, at least 100 years. My great-grandmother bought the property and my mom is currently 85. She's civilian and on the on the deed. Um, she has given my son who's 27, single, an acre of land. Um, and as we talked about the cost of homes, 350,000 is not doable for him. So, what he would like to do is put a nice manufactured home on his acre and then sell that later, build a home if he's able. Um, the majority of the land other than that one acre will stay as is in the family, which as you can tell it's trees. So, that's that's the main reason for their request. Um, mom has she has a sitter now. She has to have care for all her needs. And this would allow him to be there for her closer. She's actually on 200. And that little part that kind of dips in, that's where my mom lives. Um, and his trailer would be or manufactured home would be that little square over to the left of Red Hill Road. So, he would be available to cut her grass, go to the pharmacy, get groceries, that kind of thing for her. So that's where this is coming from. I just want to give you a little background.

Commissioners, have any questions for the applicant? I live right down the road from you, so I know your property. So um I have a question. Um the only reason you want to change it from low density to rural is so he could put a manufactured home on it. Well, I was kind of advised by planning that we may have a better opportunity if we asked for the 24 acres to be reszoned versus one because of spot zoning. Okay.

And years ago it was rural. Um my sister actually had a manufactured home and then built in front of it and sold the manufactur home later. Um, and I have a feeling it was probably reszoned when my dad had Parkinson's. Um, and was not able to kind of vote against it. So,

thank you, ma'am. We don't have any more questions. We'll now consider ourselves into public hearing. We have two people that have signed up to speak. Uh, so please come up, state your name and address for the record. Um, Perry Schwarz. Good evening. My name is Perry Schwarz. I reside at 25 uh I'm sorry. 10:32 Porter Ranch Road in Lancaster, South Carolina. A little nervous here. My first time in a meeting, too. So, I got I got overwhelmed today, I'm telling you. Okay. All right. My my deal is um my land borders the little I don't see it anywhere but the little part right there. Okay. All right. We use this land for personal things. All we do is hunt on that land. Okay. And you know I I really don't have a problem with her putting a mobile home anywhere that she could, you know, to take care of parents. That's not my point at all. But my land runs this way right beside it. And I don't feel comfortable hunting with somebody children running around the yard woods or something like that and I don't know anything about or somebody walking around out there.

And uh if by this thing on the back here it says, you know, low density. I don't I don't that don't bother me what you changed the thing to. That's not what I'm saying. But, you know, it's one and a half in uh acres. One house per one and a half acres. Why come it couldn't be on some of this other land here? Is it the same person owns all the land or you know, I don't know. That just it just bothers me that I've had this I've hunted this land for approximately 30 years. My kids, they grown up now. They 40 years old. And you know, and I and I I inherited this land. I took care of this gentleman that owned this property for 14 years. he passed away 10 or 12 years ago now and um I inherited that land and you know we we that's all we do with it and I just don't want to be fearful for somebody's life you know cuz when you pull that trigger it don't come back you know and if you know we're we're pretty safe people and my kids grew up hunting I grew up hunting and um the deal is you know if I didn't know they were there. You know, that's a problem that I don't really want to deal with. And um that's that's basically all I got. It it won't change my tax rate or anything like that. I don't think so. Um and you know, it kind of concerns me that they they they redoing all this for one home, you know, one person and by the regulations there, they can put one on an acre somewhere. So, you know, it kind of concerns me. I don't want a I surely don't want a trailer park with that much, you know, people running around in it and all that stuff. And, you know, I don't know if that one lot it'll be the end of it, but when you redo it all, I guess you got that question, you know. Okay, that's all I got. Like I said, I as far as them

building a house or or whatever that that's that's their land. and they can do what they want to. But, you know, that's my question is, you know, I just don't want to be having to worry about I got two people to hunt over there and that's all. So, that's my Thank you, sir. Anybody got a question? I do. I mean, I'm not really a question. Um, excuse me. Sorry. This is public hearing comment. Excuse me. Excuse me. Yep. Okay. Okay. Good. And then I can't read your handwriting. Wanda McKin. McKenna. Okay. You see me like trying to read it.

Hello, my name is Wanda McKenna. Um, I live at 2465 Cutlet Lane, which just happened to be on a dirt road. So, I live right down where they're talking about putting this manufacturer home, that little hook he's talking about. Soon as you go right past there, left. I'm so far out. The police have to have if I have to call them, they don't even know how to get to my house. And just like the other lady said earlier, it's very quiet. It's very peaceful. I have grands. They love walking up and down the road. I don't have a problem with them walking up and down the road. don't have to worry about safety or anything. Um, the majority of the people that do live off of Red Hill Road on Pastor Church, everybody's elderly. You know, it's quiet. Everybody's retired. Everybody know everybody's name there. You know, we can call each other. Hey, are you doing okay? You know, do I need to go check on this person? That is what we do there. That's our little community there. um along with him. I'm afraid that this is going to turn into a mobile home park. That's not what we really want on this road. And it's going to bring more traffic. And I feel like if it brings more traffic, it's going to be more problems for us. Just like they said earlier, Langster County favors Indian. I I work in Indian land. I work with the Sun City in that area, but Langster County favors them more and I and I know this, but at the end of the day, it's like I know they try to take care of everybody. I know they're short just like everybody else, but I just don't want this to be um a mobile home park.

And I know she says she lives in Raquel. Um somebody else live off of Rail Road. If we get any traffic or have any issues. It's not going to affect her. It's not going to affect the person that lives off of um Great Falls Highway. I'm sorry, off of Great Falls Highway. It's going to affect the ones that's already living down there. So, like I don't care about a mobile home, but whenever I mean, we're low density and it says a mobile home, but it also says between buildings, what buildings are we talking about? And then we say agriculture. Define agriculture. So, that is all I have to say about our little peaceful area there that I wish it could stay the way it is. Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate your comments. We do not have anyone else um signed up to speak. Um uh the applicant, would you like to respond to their comments?

As far as the hunting, um my son is an avid hunter. um he has everything that doesn't hunt him. So he's very aware of the safety. Um so and the big track of land actually but bumps up to another hunt club over there. So you know um as far as a trailer park, no. This land has been in our family for like I said over a hundred years. It's not going anywhere. This is simply for my son to have an affordable place to live. Um, agriculture when I stated that family farming, you know, corn fields, things like that for us, nothing more. Um, and as far as other family that might affect, um, I do have family in that area. my mom, my uncle, my nephew, my sister, everybody is right there. So,

thank you, ma'am.

I just want to offer um one piece of clarity and I know there's some concern about a potential for a manufactured home park. Uh this zoning designation or this zoning district does not allow that. Um, so they would not be able to to to build a manufactured home park. It would have to be zoned manufactured home, which is not what this request is. And as they currently exist with lowdensity residential, it does not allow for manufactured homes. However, it is more dense residential uses. So they could build more houses where they're currently zoned rather than what they're requesting. But just wanted to advise that a manufactured home park is not feasible on this district in rural residential.

I have a question madam chairman. Um going back to the I see my colleague is also we had a request some time ago um for the family that wanted to put the mobile homes um I think one per acre. They were asking to be zoned rural instead of like the across the street was instead of the LDR and we said if it was left LDR they could have a manufactured home. They couldn't put a mobile home but they could put a manufactured if I'm not wrong. So if this is allzoned LDR, I mean zoned rural, they can put so many mobile homes per acre, can they not?

They can. Uh but given this piece uh the parcel to the left and the size, they can only subdivide that using the minor process so many times because it it's a a oneacre piece that's been subdivided off. So, because it's a oneacre piece that they've subdivided already, which would limit how much further that could be subdivided, there's not a potential for a manufactured home park. Um, and then two, for a manufactured home park, you'd have to put multiple manufactured homes on the same parcel, which is not feasible in rural residential. You you can't put multiple on one. So, if you were to do that, they would have to be requesting manufactured home zoning. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Okay,

that is correct. Okay. Um, I guess my question is if the applicant is only concerned about putting a manufactured home on that one part, and I understand staff said, why not just do it in one fell swoop, it seems like we could allay a lot of concerns if we just granted exactly what the applicant wanted rather than go on and add the other portion to it. Does that make sense? They didn't ask for the other part of it, but staff said to go ahead and do it. Oh, you mean the increase in acreage, like requesting more than one parcel to do all 24 acres.

Um, I think now I I wasn't in the presubmitt meeting, but I I think what was confirmed in the presubmitt meeting um was a concern for spot zoning because a oneacre parcel uh where rural residential is across the street, a oneacre parcel is it was concerning. So, it looked better um and was more reasonable to to do all three. I'm I'm one of the first people persons uh first humans to be against spot zoning. But here where it's obvious that they're not trying to get anything more or game the system by having just this one for the home, it seems to me it just makes more sense to consider only what she asks for rather than and like I said, I understand the look of zone spot zoning is not attractive. It's not a good optic. But when that's all she needs, that's all she wants, and it would allay the fears of what's to come, I would just be more comfortable giving voting on what she asks for rather than what it looks like because they're not trying to get more by the spot zoning. Does that make sense?

No, no, you I I totally understand what you're saying. Um I can only speak to what was applied for and and when the application was submitted, it was requested as all 24.1 acres. Oh, I that I misunderstood. I thought that

So that was probably within a presubmitt meeting before the application was submitted. Thank you, doctor. You can get me with that every time, aren't you? Yep. I Yeah. So, that would have been a presubmitt meeting before the application was No, not trying to you to do a gotcha or anything. Oh, yeah. No, I understand. You're fine. You're fine. First night on this one, too. So, so anyway, I just feel that why add more if that's not what the applicant needs or wants. And again, spot zoning has a lot of negative connotations, the way you're looking at me, sir. Um, but in this case, I don't think there's any anything negative about this request, but that's not what the submitt is. So, we have to vote on what is submitted,

but we can admen amend it. Correct. We're not to that point yet. Okay. Yes. All right. Well, don't don't say we can't then tell me yes. At this moment we can't. Got it. Okay. Any more questions? I I have a question. So, is the is that the widest part of I mean trying to understand why you decide why he's using the left side of the road versus the rest of the road that's contingent with the house that's already on it. go down that narrow part. Um, there's no road access.

I mean, that the part that's to the left of that yellow area is is not my mom's property. That's my uncle's property. So, we basically had two choices. The one on the left or the little narrow part on the right. Okay. That belongs to someone else. Yes. Okay. the the little park right on the right of Red Hill Road before you get to her yellow acreage. That's my uncle's land. That's not my mom's. Yes, ma'am.

So, I I think I'm going to try to restate some things that have said if I'm incorrect, you can yell at me. I don't mind. Um, so they're they're doing the one big parcel for for a multitude of reasons. One is to open up the housing opportunities there. However, because of the narrow nature and the landlocked nature of the right side of the parcel, she's limited to what she can do with it. So, if you open it up and resone the entire parcel as RN, she's allowed to do more agricultural uses there as well than LDR. LDR restricts a lot of the agricultural stuff that she could use. So she may have the house on the one side that she has the updated abilities to do a more flexible housing, but the rest of the narrow property where the house is on, she can do she can have her chickens, she can have her farmland, she can have the other things. So it's multiple purposes that she's asking for this, not just the housing option.

Well, but again, the initial request was just for the housing option. The only reason that big area was put in because was because of the spot zoning concern. Um, we have no intention of changing that big area. Any more questions?

All right. Well, then that for that, thank you, ma'am. For that, that concludes um our um public hearing portion and we're going to consider ourselves out of public hearing. So, commissioners, we have before us case number RZ 2025 1989 Hurley. Um, do I hear a motion? I make a motion to approve. Second. Do we have any comments or discussions from the commissioners?

I stand by my statements that I don't think is necessary and with the applicant's permission would like to amend it to just what she originally wanted. I'm gonna Are you talking to me? I'm No one's talking to you. Oh, I'm sorry. You were looking at me. I'm looking at Shelly. Yeah. Well, you were looking through me. I thought, "Oh my god." Can I speak to that? Um I I am fine with that as long as it doesn't hinder me in the next approval steps. I'm um if if it doesn't hinder me in the next steps of approval if they're going to see an issue with the spot zoning

and and that is why and that is why planning staff recommended this because you the the spot zoning legalities the questions of that doesn't come intent doesn't come up it's whether or not it was acted on. So with the whole property, that is her best most legal method to do it as a whole property, not the single unit to prevent the spot zoning. We discussed a lot better of our recommendations. No, I'm going to say something.

All right. If if you look at this parcel, there's no place if he if he was to say, "Well, I want to Yeah, I'll just go right here behind my grandmother." He has no road access to get in there. He doesn't own the land around it that he can put a road there. If he goes way up here at the top, he still and and he still doesn't have any road access. So, I mean, there's no really no other place to put it except right there and where they've got it. There's just no other place to put it. Now, I'm looking at it as a realtor would. And I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that's the way I would look at it if I was selling this property. Um,

see, I'm looking at it like a normal I'm gonna tell you something afterwards. Yes. All right. All right. Um so we've got a motion in a second um for this um for RZ 2025 uh 1989 Hurley. Um do you officially want to make an amendment? Then state your amendment

loss as to how it um I would like to amend the request from the applicant to what originally was requested which is just the one acre for the house one acre plot be reszoned to rural to accomplish her needs. All right. So, we have a proposed amendment to this. We have to vote on the amendment. Correct. We need a second for the amendment.

Oh, we need a second for the amendment. Yes. Miss Miss Louu has proposed an amendment to uh has proposed to amend this resoning application to just include the one acre to be reszoned from LDR to rural for the purposes of placing a manufactured home on it and to leave the rest of the acreage as it is currently zoned. Do I have a second to that? Second. Have a second. So, um any comments or questions? Yes.

Okay. to the staff if this if if we vote on that as to this what what she's what she said will this applicant will have problems later on [Music] it could be likely it could be likely well then I certainly won't vote for it that's fine what kind of concerns as we mentioned when staff reviewed it we have the concerns of the spot zoning with one acre parcel set out of all of the acreage there. So that's why I'm sorry.

Yeah. So that's why we recommended the full parcel to alleviate the concerns of spot zoning. So that is her best option and the best way. Should you eliminate that, it would be harder to get any approvals and there could be challenges to a spot zoning. So she won't future. It's just whether council will see what we are saying telling them that this is why it was the staff recommended this applicant only wanted this and we felt that everything could be accomplished that she wanted this but she wouldn't have problems down the road

she wouldn't have problems down the road there's a possibility she she wouldn't have problems down the road. There is a possibility and that was staff's concern and that's why staff could not recommend the one acre parcel. Going to council, they were concerned about problems. But if council were to see our reasoning and approve it, she wouldn't have problems next year or the next year or the next year with the property itself. Staff is just about approval. Yes, ma'am.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I I think for fear of potential issues and spot zoning, I am I am hesitant to move forward although I am wasn't my intention to vote against their request. So I don't know that I agree with the position that we find ourselves in. Um, I also heard the desire um for the applicant for having agriculture options that would be possible with her original request. So, if we've changed that, then that also would take that away. So, I'm not sure at this point now that there's been a second in the motion on the floor what we do unless that is retracted. No, we can vote the amendment down.

Yes, sir. What you're saying is intentionally creating spot zoning and that's not going to hurt her. The problem is when somebody else comes up and they want an acre, we voted six to one to do it at the a couple of months ago. That wasn't one acre. That was like seven. One one on a street that was all LDR. The recommendation was for one, if I remember right, every everything across the street was rural.

And what they wanted was they were told, and Miss Williams, correct me if I'm don't remember it correctly, was that they couldn't put mobile homes on it for what they were asking, they were going to have to put manufactured homes. And in doing so, it was going to be a problem between a minor and a major subdivision. And that being the point there was four, right? So it kept it at a minor subdivision was the problem, but that's because it was seven acres. By pulling out one acre and assigning it something different that is spot zoning and by doing so, it's not against her. It's trouble for anybody else who shows up and wants their oneacre zone to whatever they want it to be. And then the problem comes back to the county.

Okay. Right. So, do you still want to propose your amendment? Yes. Okay.

So, we've we've proposed it. We we have a second. So, um I would like to see a um we're going to have a vote to amend RZ 2025 1989 Hurly Road to just reszone the one acre for the manufactured house from LDR to rural and leave the rest as it is. Okay. Show of hands. Those four for the amendment. One and those against six. So the motion fails one to six with Miss Lou voting for. All right. So now that's been voted down. So now we're back to we can vote on the original thing Ed has proposed. So, now um let's do a vote on RZ 2025 1989 Hurley Road as it was proposed. Um um show of hands. Four. That's six. And those against

I'm going to abstain. You're going to abstain. All right. So 64 six to zero with Miss Curin, Commissioner Curin abstaining. So the motion passes. Okay. Next item is RZ 20251 1864 space savers bracket. Hello Mr. Corey.

Greetings commissioners. Here we go. Come on, stop it. In this particular case, um, we have it where the applicant is proposing to reszone 1 acre, a 1acre tract out of a parent parcel, a commercial parcel. And the reasoning for this is to um because of the conditional use. So it's been subdivided. Um the property is located at 2339 Charlotte Highway. um applicant space saver storage and um in this particular slide there's a depiction of the aerial view showing where the subdivided parcel is outlined in red there. And then we also have two other photos that shows the northbound and southbound of photos along Highway 521. The parcel is currently zone general business and the proposal is to zone it low density residential which it complies with the use types in the future land use of the 2040 comprehensive plan. And

the chart below shows that the neighboring parcels are either general business or low density residential. The parcel also lies in a municipal growth area and a future land use designation is compatible with the requested lowdensity zoning district. um designation. And to add, I had another slide in here that shows that the parcel also lies outside of the moratorum area. Not sure where it is. I guess it didn't get loaded, but um to that effect, the staff recommends approval of this resoning. And the applicant is here with us in case you have questions. Commissioners,

anyone have questions for staff? I have a question for staff. After the long discussion we just had, would this be spot zoning?

Okay. So, this one is different because there's an existing use on this property. The other one was not. Um, the existing use is a residential property. So, the one big property as showed here, the teal and the red are the it was a contingent property. to one parcel. The part of which is the red box has a house and it has people in it and it's had people in it for a while. So that active live situation is residential. Um the the owner of the property is wanting twofold. They want to make some renovations to the home where there are people and to the commercial side where there are businesses. He wants to update his businesses. because of our our UDO and the codes, we can't allow that because of the dual uses is a non-conforming use. So, he has to split them. So, because of the current life of that property is residential, it has to be zoned residential. If not, it's non-conforming and it can't happen and that restricts him from renovating the house ever, updating the commercial property and all that. Um Corey, if you can go back to your slide where the property the around the properties.

Yeah. So if you see on this map there, there is general business and there is also residential in that area. So it's there's there's property close to it that are both. Um do you have the the the the graph? This one. So to to the north of the property is general business. to the south is general business, but if you look to the east and the west, there's LDR on the side. So, it's surrounded by both of them. So, it is not spot zoning because there is a mixture of those same uses. And to create a non to get it out of a non-conforming use, it has to be residential.

Thank you. Thank you very much. That was a very good explanation and it answered my questions. Any questions for All right. Uh would the applicant like to come up and speak? You don't have to. Please state your name and address for the record.

My name is Staca Bracket. My address is 1615 Craig Farm Road. I just want to say that the property is next to my storage facility. It's a 6acre track. The house has been in residential for about 75 years. And I came up here a couple years ago when my dad gave me that piece of property and I had everything put in residential because I'm got storage facility around it and I was just getting it ready so I could expand and the county had no problem with me putting it in general business knowing that that house was there with people in it. They took my money and put it in general business. So I'm trying to get a permit now to build more buildings. They told me I couldn't have it like that. So they're they wanted it put back in residential. So, I hired a surveyor and had it put back like they wanted it. So, that's just trying to put it back like it's been for 75 years.

Thank you, sir. Like I said, she explained to us why it wouldn't be spot zoning and that was my big thing. Just build more buildings, more storage buildings.

Yes, ma'am. I've actually got store boat and RV parking on that same piece. I've got a 5acre track on the left side and I'm adding new buildings and that stopped my permit process until I got all that done. So, thank Any more questions? Um well, no one has signed up for public comments, so we will consider ourselves, well, consider ourselves out of public hearing. So, um we have before us case number RZ 2025 1864, space savers. Do I have a motion? Motion to approve. Second.

All right. So, do we have any discussions or comments? All right. Um, so, uh, let's do a show of hands vote. Those four. That is 64. Those against. Were you four or against? I'm four. Okay. So, seven to zero. The motion passes. When you said four, I thought Oh, wow. Yeah. All right. I can see that.

Very good. All right. Um, next item is RZ 20225 2080 Circle S Ranch Black Blackman Farm. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is another reasonzoning. This one is a resoning request from Mr. Lee and Mr. Starns for the Circle S ranch. Um, a little history on this property. It used to be part of the Blackman farm. The parcel to the right, the larger parcel is currently zoned RN. And the the buildings that you see on that site are um poultry barns that they had used and have been in um service since from what I can understand since the mid 80s. Um there there were some familial changes and unfortunately some some deaths in the family and the barns weren't able to be properly cared for and the the vendor the circle ranch has used these um guys for their products in the past. So they decided to help the family out purchased these two properties here and they're in the process of renovating these buildings to be able to continue production there. Um the property to the left is zoned AR and this request is um the ability to reszone this AR the RN parcel to AR so that he can combine them. That would um benefit the owners because there would be one consolidated tax bill. It would benefit the county and we would be much appreciative of that because there is some encroachment over the property lines and that would solve that. Um however, Mr. um Lee is not they are under the right to farm act so they've already been given their permits and they're actually building now because of that they um don't have to follow that

reasonzoning so this is mostly just out of his good faith to go ahead and fulfill our wishes and to help with his tax bill and this green is a lot of the same words that I just said we are recommending approval and if you have any questions we're here any questions Williams we're just cleaning up the app with this one. Right. Making it pretty. Yes, sir. All right. So, um, uh, Mr. Lee, you signed up for public comment. You don't have to sign up for public comment. As the applicant, you are allowed to come up and speak, but would you like to speak during public comment? As a former attorney, it's very Okay, very good. So, we're going to

I've been waiting to say this all night. As Judge Judy says, does it sound like you're losing? All right. Well, considering no one has signed up for public comment, we will consider ourselves out of public hearing. So, commissioners, you have before you RZ 2025, 2080 Circle S Ranch, Blackman Farm. Do I have a motion? So, moved. Second. And a second. Uh, approve. Sorry. Yes. Do we have any comments or questions? All right. Well, then let's do a show of hand votes. Those four seven those against zero. So the motion passes seven to zero. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. All right. So that now concludes public hearing items for recommendations to council. And now we will go into nonhering items. So let me scroll through here. We're going to listen to R, excuse me, NRN 2025 2188 October group submitt.

Hello all. I'm filling in for Jennifer this week and this month. Um, but this is just our uh month monthly uh new road name submittal. What's uh all these road names have been uh looked over and approved by Sandra Burton, our E91 addresser. So trying to keep it short and sweet.

So we just have this list of names. We don't have to read them out. Okay, cool. If we don't have to read them out, that's fine. So So um uh commissioners, do you have any questions for staff? All right. Um so um do uh commissioners you have before you NRN 20252188 October group submitt do I hear a motion motion to approve second

second all right um so show of hands those four six seven those against zero passes seven to zero next on our agenda is draft draft request for proposal for the countywide impact fee.

All right, we're almost there. Um so the we discussed this at the special meeting um back at our workshop day. Um and this commission had some questions and I took those questions back and got some answers for you guys for the proposal. Um, we did find out that the original impact study was done by a sole source agreement, not an RFP, which means that at the time there were very limited consultants or people available to do it. So, there's a soul source form. It's procurement stuff. I try to stay away from it, but long story, they there's a special form that they can use to say these guys are about the only ones that can do it or whatever requirements they have. So, that's what they did. They did not have an official RFP the first time. So they did have to create the new one. Um during that review process, procurement um created the file. They had the attorney um the development services director and staff look that over and it all the things that we need to look for are there. Um I was told to mention that this is not the complete packet that'll go out to to the proposals. It's just the actual scope. Um the actual app the packet is stuff that is standard required stuff like proof of insurance, proof of license and all that that you they didn't want to burden you guys with looking at. So one of the reasons that it looks smaller than you may have seen in the past is because a lot of the pages weren't sent to you guys. Um, the other question that you had is the the fire service and I was given some information and the county said that the council is um investigating other sources such as a countywide overhaul of fire service and that it's they have to get that taken care of before they implemented. Um, it was basically it's easier to put it in later than take it out later with this

process because it's very state code written. Um there was another um edict today that came down from council's request through administration and they do would they would like to add a a transportation component to this. So um if you it's it's a very simple change. Um, if you would look at number two under the scope, which would be page two of the document, um, under number under under number two A where it has in parentheses public safety, sheriff's services, and emergency medical services and parks and recreation, and we will add the words and transportation there. And then also under number 3A, we will add update and assess impact fee calculations using current cost estimates, growth, etc. So those would be the only two places that would be amended based on that council's request for that.

What was the second update? Um the second one is under number 3A. So where it says update the impact fee calculations, it would be update and assess because those are not currently in there. So it would be an assessment there. Madame Chairman, I have a comment.

So, I'm trying to say I didn't figure out how to say this, but um I am not the fact that it initially was we were told there was it was an RFP and now we were told we're being told it's soul source. So, we had to wait in order to even look at the document and now we're going through it. Like, first of all, that um is a little unnerving, uncomfortable for me um because I just feel like we should have known that. That should have been public knowledge. That shouldn't have been a surprise. And then we get a a templated RFP uh to talk about. Um, but my other question is, do we then need to also be specific about the um the systems that will be able to parse this information? Because I've had um I've had uh residents who've come back to me and gotten, for example, foyer requests that have come back in some gibbly gobb language. And I want to make sure that when it's sent over, it's readable for a Mac or a PC that it makes sense in Microsoft Word and that we are able to understand and don't have to wait for that to be ungarbled before we can read it.

Miss Williams, is this being soul sourced or is this a true? No, this is the RFP that will go out to bid as soon as we get one that's approved. They are not soul sourcing this. It was the previous one was soul sourced,

right? But previously we're told it was an RFP and so we waited that time for the county administrator to come back to us and then that delayed what we are doing now. I I just want to make sure that we are getting accurate information to be able to make accurate decisions to move forward. Um, but I still want to understand if I need to include our system um, requirements in this RFP because I don't see that.

So, you would request it like in a PDF form or something like that. However, it's going to be legible for PC readability, ease of use. I don't want it back in any, you know, garbled kind of form. Something that's going to make sure that when you tried to open the document, you couldn't you couldn't see it.

Um, I'm not specifically talking about this document. Um but I am talking about other systemto-system um requests that um residents have told me that they've asked for in other systems and I just want to make sure that this is not going to be a mismatch. Shouldn't all of those requests be in PDF format because if it's in a word or Excel then it's a you can you can amend it or whatever. So shouldn't they all be I'm just asking a question. I would say yes, but that is not my sandbox. So, I can't tell you that specifically. Um, I could I could leave that in and if they need to specify that how it's brought in, um, that is definitely something that I could ask or request. Um, the question would be, do you want to wait another month before you approve this or would you just allow me to add that language or requirement in

I'm fine with you adding it? Yeah. So, does anyone have any comments or questions about the text itself? Miss Mora, thank you for calling me and asking me questions about my comments and getting them in there. All right. So, um, we have we have to vote on this, right? Yes, ma'am.

I mean, I'm just I'm just I'm making sure I'm going down the right procedure. So, um, if there's no comments or questions, do I have a motion to accept this draft proposal as as it is presented herein? Motion to approve with the comments from council to add language. Yes, exactly what I was about to say. So, second. Yes. Okay. Any questions? So, um, we have a motion and a second to approve the draft RFP for the countywide impact study to include any comments from from council after it has gone through. Um, so, show of hand votes for I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am.

Is there any I'm sorry that I I can't recall. Is there any urgency built in or any penalty clause or anything for not delivering or is this just open-ended? It could be someone else has something more important the company can work on that just set ours on the back. Yes, ma'am.

So, so the RFP is required to be posted for 30 days. So as soon as we get an approved document, we can get that posted and that 30 days can start running. After that period closes, then you have a review period. Once you choose the consultant, then we have to develop a contract with them. In that contract is where the timelines and the deadlines will be put into place, but we can't do that until we get past these steps. She she was saying, I don't know how I don't know how many RFPs you reviewed in your past. Normally very big complicated things not to say.

Okay. And 90% of it is this is this is the insurance. This is what you have to have. It has to be. So they're just giving us I guess they're giving us the meat of it to review. They'll add in all of that and those questions like that will be addressed and included in that. That's great. All right. So, we have a motion and a second to approve the um draft um RFP for the countywide impact fee study including the including the any comments by uh county council after they have reviewed it.

They will not review this. This is up to you guys. Once you approve it, we get it finalized and sent out. So, it will be with those two the two notations and then I will check tomorrow about adding the requirements in for submissions. Right. So not for submissions but whenever like I just want it to be readable not not necessarily for them when they come back to us but for whenever anybody in the public yes nonQ public tries to download it as a freedom of information that Thank you legible. Absolutely. And that may be an IT comment later on down the road for that system not this one. Thank you. Okay. So, for the

fourth time, we have a motion and a second to approve the draft RFP countywide impact study fee as is to be finalized and be posted to the web page. Show of hands for we have the motion and second. Yes. Those against? No. Passes seven to zero. All right. Now we are down to our other are we going to do a UDO update?

We I have two quick updates for you. They're going to be super quick. Um the first one is the UDO update. Um if you were not following the last committee of the whole meeting, um the draft UDO was presented to them. They decided that they want to create an ad hoc UDO committee um to look at that and to address some things that they pinpointed. Um for your viewing pleasure, you can go start about the 50th minute of that cow and hear what they had to say. Um so this coming Monday at their next council meeting, they will be appointing that ad hoc committee. Um it was mentioned that it will be a couple members from this commission, a couple members from the council, a couple members um potentially developers and some citizens. So, um, get your popcorn out Monday and watch that update and you'll see who that's going to be. Um, the second one is the moratorum update that was also approved on first reading um, on the 13th,

but it only required one reading. Correct.

Well, it requires three. However, it was they did use the pending pending ordinance doctrine, which means that because of big things like that and it's across the board thing that it it was technically became in effect Monday. um they they have to finish the readings and they they could change some things. Um the one big thing to note is that the the draft moratorum had a section in section 8 that allowed for anything that had been applied that had to finish a completed application be go through the process. council did decide that that was not going they they struck that out and only people only cases that had a um the vested rights that had already been approved at a certain point goes forward. So there were some that we had to to take off agendas and to move around and um some things like that they they are working on getting some refunds. Um long story short with the moratorum it's kind of on a case-byase basis as they come in. um we can't say, you know, there's an area that no new development can happen and that's clear. There's maps, they're posted online. We we've had we have static maps, we have zoning maps. We've updated all of that area. Um I I just want to kind of maybe state for the count commission as well as people listening out in the world that that doesn't mean that everything in that affected area will automatically stop. new projects coming through. We're not we're not seeing those. We're not hearing those. So, nothing new, but there are things that have already been approved. There are things that are subject to development agreements and and and things like that that will still be moving forward. So, I did want to kind of let the commissioners know that if you do have people questioning, they there there was a moratorium that passed, but I still see work that it's probably more than likely one of those that's already been in the um shoot. If

if anybody questions you, you feel free to send them to our office and we can look it up and give them the specifics as to why it is still going. Um because we we have list and documents. So I think that'll help you guys out. Um and if anything changes between the next two readings of that, uh we will be sure to give you a new update. Thank you, ma'am.

Not to put you on the spot, do you know roughly how many of those could be still coming even though moratorum, but they they qualify? Um, off the top of my head, I can name a few, but it would not be an inclusive list. Um, I do know that we're working staff has been working on that to try to make a list and try to to look at them. Um, so we you might could um we might could produce something that we have in the office. I just don't have that right off the top of my head. Um, and and my memory is so shoddy that if I say one or two and forget one, then somebody will call about that one that's still growing. So, um, we do have something and we'll try to get that together for you. Um, if it's okay, we'll just make a a note to have as completed a list as possible by the next workshop meeting.

Thank you. Anything else? Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to run like the wind bullseye. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.