Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I did not just wait.

At 5.31, we'll call the meeting to order. Number two, the approval of the minutes from August the 19th, 2026. Do I have a motion on the floor? So moved.

I second the motion.

We have a motion on the floor for the approval of the minutes of 20 of August 19, 2025 and also a second. Any further discussion? All in favor let it known by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Number three, subdivision and land development, 545 Pershing Avenue.

Hello, so my name is Jose Lopez. I'm the president and CEO of Saka and Saka Development. The subject of the hearing today or approval that we're seeking is a property that's owned by Saka Development. which is a property that saka has had in its operation since its inception which was back in 1973 today that property serves as our senior center site as well as our community kitchen where we provide community meals the families in our community that have food insecurities In addition to that, it was a prior use for our substance use disorder counseling and mental health counseling program that now is not in existence. And what we're proposing to do here is to upgrade our property, including the site work, stormwater management, some lighting, some enhancements to our parking, as well as getting it ready for us to do a partnership with Union Community Care to bring an integrated clinic to our neighborhood. Our landscape architect firm ELA group is going to do the rest. So I'm just here to look pretty and answer any questions you might have.

Good evening. As Jose mentioned, we're processing the land development plan with your group. The footprint itself does not change. So what you see on the rendering is existing building. We are not having any footprint or building expansion. The area that you see in gray was there's limited parking out there existing and they're in desperate need of the parking. There's an existing older playground on site that we're removing in order to expand and get as much parking as possible out there. They also have experiencing for a long time some stormwater problems. As rain events happen, it's almost in a bowl area and it drains into an inlet. Every storm event, they're bringing out hoses and pumps and they're pumping water Otherwise, it's also flooding into the senior center, so it's a desperate need to improve this from a stormwater situation. So we've re-engineered everything. We are putting in area drains in front of the building or just in this area on the plan. this location we are also providing there's a very large stormwater infiltration system that will go in underneath of that parking lot and we are able to infiltrate in that location Plum Street as you know is very narrow off the back portion of the site which is where the existing driveway currently is We're maintaining that location and just basically expanding the parking within that portion of the site. We are providing a good amount and increase in street trees all along Plum Street and within the parking lots themselves, as well as some areas around the perimeter of the site. We did obtain a shade tree commission when your shade tree had been active. So we did secure that approval. Also we had some prior zoning approvals for this. One of them was a variance for parking that shows how desperate they need it because we can't meet even the, we're maximizing what we have and we're greatly increasing that. But by the letter of the law, we do have a variance that was granted on some parking, but we're certainly giving them a large increase in parking within their facilities. We've looked at ADA access. There will be ADA... improvements in the front of the building. The senior center is in the lower area and we also have a proposed long ADA ramp along this edge. It's kind of obscured under these trees but that will allow connections from this lower area up where there's currently just steps and it connects up to Pershing Avenue and down below and as well as providing ADA access into the second floor, which almost feels like a half floor up at this point on the building. That in a nutshell is kind of where we are with our plans. We have addressed technical comments. We are really down to some of the modifications that you see listed on the agenda. And those primarily, those all relate to Plum Street and the narrowness of Plum Street itself. We are not able to fit in sidewalk and or green planting strip there and also the curbing remainder of this is really not curbed so we've got it worked out but we are providing Landscape strip with the street trees in that we do meet the zoning requirements for for those items So we are enhancing that but those those three modification sections in The agenda that we specifically can't meet just based on the constraints of the site in that location Otherwise we've We've pretty much we've got a couple agreements to execute and you know posting a financial security. Beyond that we've we've really tightened everything up on the project and. are in pretty good shape so we're open to questions.

This might not be as much of a question as it is in support of what I noticed on that street where the widest sidewalk seems to be almost two feet, which would not be compliant to anything. There's no way to match that. Correct. And it's a one-way street that is very narrow. I couldn't imagine being able to do anything without modification.

Right, yeah, yep, that's correct. The street itself is 14 feet. It varies, but that's the overall average width of that area.

Will the wall remain there?

That wall we're taking out. So the existing wall that you see on Street View or the back of the site, That wall will come out. We're actually lowering the grade there some, a little bit. So picture where this parking lot is, is all elevated up. It's got that wall of two-ish to three-ish feet there. that raises that and that creates the bowl area back in here that's trapping the water that's flooding the lower floor on the building. So in order to get everything to work, we are lowering that area as well as installing the area drains along the, which would be the southeastern side of the existing building to pick up any water that is in this very flat area. Then we're transferring all of that to the underground system that we can put even under that lowered parking lot and still infiltrate and then have the discharge connect out into what we worked out with Brian Harner as the preferred location to connect up as an outflow. But most of our stormwater is infiltrating in the ground and stored in our system. So it would be a great improvement for their

It is amazing with just working on the stormwater how you've created almost a more Pedestrian friendly view then because eliminating that wall making things a little bit more visible on that street It's a win with this trees screening it

I'd like to keep going on the sidewalks. I live about two and a half blocks from this property, so I actually biked down Plum Street on my way over. And there were two moms and a cohort of kids and strollers on the really nice sidewalks in front of the newer developments in the 500 block of South Plum Street. There's like... eight or nine row homes in a row that are like 20 years old and um the southeast is a really heavy pedestrian area as far as i can tell the sap the 500 block of south plum street is just as narrow as the 600 block that we're thinking about um people were just hit in columbia on monday i i understand the need for parking but we need to protect we need to prioritize human lives and sidewalks protect humans can i speak to the houses that you bought reference on the 500 block which were houses that we developed that

to develop that project, we actually had to buy all the properties that existed there and do a lot of configuration so that we could put the sidewalk and create that environment that exists today. It's not able to be done at this location, given the constraints of the street there and whatnot. So that's why we choose to do that. And I do agree with you. Yes, we want to carry pedestrian friendly environments totally into that. So I appreciate your comments.

Was the park area ever public? No. Has it been posted, no trespassing?

Yes, and that's actually one of the issues that we're gonna try to resolve, the access to it. Everybody seems to think it's a public property. wants to cut through the rear gate entry to the parking and then utilize the steps that exist on the front of Pershing and use that as a cut through. We're going to eliminate that as we do the improvements to the site.

I know parking is a pretty extreme issue in that 500 block of Pershing Avenue. There's a lot of cars parked illegally on the sidewalk routinely.

Yes, as you know, we, Saka and Saka Development, have focused on the work that we do to provide homeownership opportunities, a family. And when we first started that endeavor, got 35 almost 40 years ago, our focus was Pershing Avenue and try to change the dynamics there. That 500 block of property, south plum that you referenced earlier as well as the neighborhood over there on on palm street which was once a notorious uh drug infested neighborhood we took that neighborhood and turned that into a home ownership neighborhood as well actually that's where judge richardson live our district judge lives there today um so we're trying to do all our part to create parking as much as we can whenever we do one of these redevelopment projects.

I'd like to ask some questions about the stormwater. Obviously you're basically taking a lot of earth and soil out and then converting over to concrete or tarmac or whatever. Do you feel comfortable with the amount of capacity for the stormwater system itself? Sometimes we get these rather big storms as we've been having recently.

Yes, it is very well engineered and it meets your needs, but I understand where you're from. With what they're experiencing now, just based on the physical grades and the amount of time that they've had to put into that and cleaning the water out of the rooms on the lower level of the senior center on a routine basis really takes a toll. Um, I was really surprised we got infiltration. I did not expect it here. It was very welcome and we're very happy that we were able to get that. So the geotechs did testing throughout that whole area and did determine that we can infiltrate safely. Um, so the system is designed, um, it's, it's, very large in what you can see and within the plan sets it's better depicted on some other drawings but we are very confident in how that is set up and also the way we have the slopes it won't be an inability where it's flooding into the building again thank you i appreciate it just curious about bicycle parking yes we are providing some it is more difficult to see but it we are providing in this location in the lower area again it can be accessible from there to get to upper levels and whatnot Within those zones and I think there is also a sculpture planned which is separate from this project, but in a location here It's a it's a tall butterfly sculpture and there is a butterfly bench out there and there'll be native plantings and other things that are installed in that area as and there'll be some interpretive signage there it's not truly it's depicted here but it's being handled separately and we did confirm with Jamil that the location is a does meet zoning code in that area so trying to provide some of those enhancements as well as replicating some of the the native plantings in in addition to what you just see on this plan that will be also another enhancement in there

What kind of capacity do you have for bicycles?

I honestly need to grab a different plan and check that for you.

I think the reason is that I don't see bicycles going away. There's much more of an increase with them. And I don't know whether that is with your constituents there, but in terms of whether they use bicycles or will want to use bicycles. But we see an increase, naturally.

we have one bicycle rack there i mean there could be opportunities to provide additional in this lower area in this location we have to watch our pedestrian route through here to the front there's also i didn't discuss this but there is a loading area here they currently in a very small parking lot Offload food from vans into that building from this lower end into the kitchen area For the senior center, so there is there is one space here We have the dumpsters located here as well, but we we are very somewhat jammed on this upper level allowing the space for that sculpture and and that interpretive signage, but we could we could provide some additional racks on that lower level and

Yeah, I mean, it's just a common we see in the city just there's more bicycles. And I think, you know, it's a future plan. And I'm really just more conscious of like that your constituents and maybe some of your staff people are there. How do we encourage people to use bicycles? So that's that's all. Thank you.

Understood.

I have a question. I was there visiting today and I know the steps off of Pershing, there's a large number of steps that go down. And I saw that the railing was removed in the middle at some point. Is there a reason for that? And I mean, since seniors are accessing the lower level, why was that railing removed since that would probably help them get down the steps?

No, it actually became a hazard not too long ago, so we had to remove it. And so part of this project's gonna improve that, so that's what I'm waiting for to replace it. But duly noted, it's been a concern. And the issue with the bike rack, as we serve community meals there, a lot of the folks that access the community meals program do come with their bikes. And so maybe there is room to add. And we can we can do that. My issue with that just comes in that some of the folks are accustomed to actually bringing their bicycle inside of the room that is in front of whether the kitchen or the cafeteria areas where we serve the food inside of the building to. to let their bike sit there, and we've allowed that practice. And so once all these improvements are made, we will have to make some kind of correction to that. I don't know how that's gonna go with the participants, but we'll handle that as need be.

So where you visited is where they'll be, picture half of that width will be a long ramp. Okay, so if you can visualize the flat area on the top and then half of the width of that stair will become a ramp system that gets ADA accessibility connections and bikes as well from the upper level down to the lower level where that wide stair is at this point.

Any further comment from the commission? Ms. Finn, any comment from you, city?

Just to say that I mean as as Miss Love noted that almost all of their technical comments are satisfied which is pretty unusual. I mean usually at this point there's still some things hanging over and it's really very much just like logistical signatures agreement forms. It's really all they have left. So it's pretty much ready to go.

OK. Any public comment. Hearing none.

So the process is again we're gonna need action on the waivers and then a separate action on the plan itself and then again for the plan as a condition it should be noted that they need to satisfy everything on the August 12th staff review letter.

So we have a motion on the floor.

I'd like to make a motion for 545 Pershing for the request of modifications to be approved. 265 33 I to not install concrete curbs along South Plum Street. 265.33 J to not install a five foot wide sidewalk along South Plum. 265.33 J as well part four to not install a four foot wide grass planting strip along South Plum I'll second that motion we have a motion on the floor in a second um to all of what was stated

Any further comment, discussion? All in favor let it known by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Hearing none, ayes have it, motion carried. Congratulations.

I think we still have some more parts.

Mr. Lopez.

We still need to put through an additional motion. All right. I will put that one through as well. I'd like to make a motion to approve, may I borrow that just in front of me? Perfectly, thanks. The subdivision and land development plan for 545 Pershing Avenue, as well as, can I put the letter in there now for me and the- As a condition. With all the conditions from the August 12th letter.

Yes.

Thank you.

Second.

We have a motion on the floor and a second for all of what was stated. Any further discussion? Let it known by saying aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Hearing none, ayes have it, motion carried.

Thank you very much, we appreciate it.

Congratulations. Yeah, they are a little bit more difficult. So number four, other business.

I have none.

Hearing none. Staff report.

I'm just I guess a basic update on land development projects this is busy time so we have more more plans coming through end of September for the second meeting in September as well as in October so just to I would say make sure that your calendars are marked for attendance We need to always make sure that we have quorum. I guess to that to that end, I'll just reiterate that we still need to fill Porter's vacancy and we are still in search of another alternate as well. And that's like the minimum right now because I think everybody can see that we may end up needing additional people other than that. So if you know people who might be interested, we have a different type of submission process now with the new administration. And so if you would send them my way, that would be great. If they have any questions, happy to answer questions um i also have a description of what your position is now which is very exciting and i'm happy to pass that along to anybody who's interested did anybody have any questions i did provide um the the um project list did anybody have any specific questions about any projects Everything is. Was it not? No.

I think it's in the last meeting's Google Drive because there wasn't any updates to it.

Yeah, there wasn't there wasn't much. Yeah. Things are pretty much just.

So it is encouraging to see the land being moved at some of these sites now that we approved six, ten months ago. This is encouraging that things are actually happening again. I was bored with the economy that it went.

Yep. Things are definitely moving. Lots under construction.

Can I also provide a quick Lancaster by design update. As you guys are aware at the last meeting they came and did a presentation we had an open house after that we had about 25 people show up. for the open house and the next steps are they are going to start sending out a monthly newsletter so that everyone's aware of like because it's going to be quiet for a while that what they're doing and it'll have some educational stuff on zoning and subdivision and land development as well as kind of like a status update. So they're working on that and probably should have that out mid-September. Overall, we wouldn't anticipate the assessment coming until January, February. Anybody, questions? Within that assessment too, they are gonna highlight items that could easily be modified in our current zoning ordinance in a faster timeframe related to housing mostly. Thanks.

Okay, yeah, thank you. Any public comments.

Tony Dasher 700 block in New Holland Avenue. Does the tripod bring back flashbacks Mr. Whalen. Does. I had a feeling it would. So as you all might know after the July 1st meeting me and some other residents formed an informal group called Lancaster Residents Against Glut and Exhaust aka Lancaster Rage because we are upset with the data center project. I have some questions for the Commission if you'd be so kind to answer because we do have this zoning thing coming up on the scheduled meeting for Later this month, but also you have further action to take later on for the final plan approval so For everyone's time, I'll keep it brief my first question is When do commissioners believe the zoning determination was made for the project located at 216 Greenfield Road. And if it's if we're able to get an answer to that that'd be awesome because that was one of the big concerns me and many other residents raised at that time. I know it's a public comment, so no answer is required. But due to the urgency of the issue, responses in the moment are appreciated for the sake of transparency and public trust. So we are hoping for an answer because this shouldn't be something that is difficult or challenging. I'll just pause again and see if I can get an answer to that.

I also just want to acknowledge that three of the people who are sitting here tonight were not part of the planning commission at that time.

Not part of the plan or not present on July 1st.

But the question you're asking about the zoning determination goes back to even before that.

So I guess that sort of answers my question. Is the position of the city that a zoning determination was made?

I'm not answering your question.

Okay. See, and that's exactly what I mean. So my second question is, do commissioners believe or intend to make zoning determinations when approving plans? And this is like just generally opinion because I know when I was up there with you guys we were told that we don't make zoning determinations. This is not the purview of the Planning Commission. But I'm just curious if anybody does think we do because I do have a definition from the MPC that will prove relevant right now. And that's okay to not answer, because I totally understand wanting to stay ambiguous on that one.

You have the definition? You say you do have that? Yeah, I do.

So in page seven of the municipality's planning code, there are three ways in which a determination is made. One is by the governing body. One is by the zoning authority. I sorry I don't have those two things written in front of me but governing body zoning officer or body but the third is the more complex one which does apply to Lancaster City and it's important that planning commissioners understand this so a determination is made number three the planning agency only if and to the extent the planning agency is charged with final decision on preliminary or final plans under the subdivision and land development ordinance or planned residential development provisions. So as just now, a plan was approved. The final action was taken by the Planning Commission, which had it needed to have any zoning determination done, it could be argued that a zoning determination would have been made at that time. So with that definition, I just end with three. Because residents have been frustrated because, you know, Frank Arcoglio applied to see the Zoning Hero Board way back when. I've now applied with Lancaster residents to see the zoning hearing board again in the near future. But y'all hold a lot of power in this because Frank Arcoglio's situation, he was taken through the county courts. And in December of 2025, the county courts determined that no determination had been made. So that leaves an ambiguous timeframe because if you're saying last year members weren't here and a determination had been made,

No, I'm saying that there was no need for a determination.

Okay, and I appreciate your opinion and explanation, but still. So a determination is needed for plan approvals, which is why the planning agency has the power to make determinations when no other determination has been made by the governing or zoning bodies. So with that, third question, which is more long-winded. With that definition, do commissioners believe that instead of a normal meeting, you would be willing to see 216 Greenfield's plan go through a public hearing to further ensure accountability to the developer's commitments and or require the developer see the zoning hearing board to verify the project's compliance with the ordinance it was submitted under and ensure their commitments are legally binding to a greater degree and the community has protections? Absolutely, I know that was the long one. So that's part of why I wrote them down instead of going off the cuff this time. With that definition, do commissioners believe that instead of a normal meeting like this one, would you be willing to see 216 Greenfield's plan go through a public hearing like we had voted to maybe do for some of the zoning stuff last year? Public hearing to ensure further accountability to the developer's commitments and or require the developer to see the zoning hearing board to verify the project's compliance with the ordinance it was submitted under and ensure their commitments are legally binding to a greater degree and the community has protections.

Public hearing conducted by who?

By the planning commission. Because the final plan would be approved by you guys. The public hearing power does explicitly say like these are supposed to be for matters of public interest, which I would argue this is one of the biggest matters of public interest we've had in a decade, maybe since the convention center. So would the commission be willing to consider having a public hearing for the final approval of this project and make sure the public has the opportunity to engage with the developers in that manner especially because the public has tried now this is the second time to go through more of a public hearing process like with the zoning hearing board. But the first time we got quashed, and as I've just explained with a lot of the logic earlier, I think we can understand why there's a lot of confusion from the public. And frankly, unless the zoning hearing board option that me and residents are taking results in something beneficial, Y'all are the last check and balance that the public has. And frankly I'm not sure how the public will feel if we go through this like it's a normal plan. So that's is the commission willing to consider a public hearing for the final plan approval.

So it appears as though we're not in a position at this time to answer that question.

Sure. Uh, do you think it could be put on the agenda for question and another time or further discussion with public included? I understand that, uh, something related to data centers is supposed to come to the commission, um, in the future, but could this be entertained at that time? I do not know when that, uh, will be.

I would assume, Mr. Chair, that the commission will definitely be open to public comment, especially as more information comes to us from Harrisburg and we discuss that as a planning commission. And that would be a good time for further public comment. But I think we leave it at that.

Do we have an idea of the next time this will be on the agenda for public comment then? Like even a rough estimate?

Okay. Repeat that again. Okay. That's something to be discussed.

No, I will do that. I unfortunately will be planning to be here frequently now. So thank you for your time and have a good night. Thank you.

Any other further public comment? Hearing none, do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting?

Motion to adjourn. Second.

We have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. Ready for the question. All in favor let it known by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Opposed? Hearing none. Ayes have. Motion carried. Thank you for your time. Those who are here.

I could have won it.