Town Council - Regular Meeting

Hold on. Okay, now we are. We're live now.

We are going to open with public meeting for the ordinance number 2026. What's that? Public hearing.

Public hearing. Thank you. For ordinance number 2026-02, an ordinance amending section one of chapter one entitled rates and charges of article two entitled Water Works of Titles, entitled Public Works, Transportation and Facilities of the Town Code. Do we have anybody here in person that wishes to speak about this ordinance?

Do you have any of the Fire Department's past bills taken care of before the ordinance is passed?

Whatever happened before this ordinance is before this ordinance. Whatever happens from the moment this is passed and forward is from this and forward.

So what does the ordinance say?

I read this in our last meeting and said that copies were available through Cindy. So you guys should have picked up copies first.

And then did we find the state jurisdiction as far as, because I know Marcel had reached out to Brandy on what you were doing with meetings on top of every bill and where does that money go? That has nothing to do with our work. with our water works, public works, transportation, if it still has nothing to do with what we're doing right now. Well, it does in the fact of that you're charging on this ordinance for fire suppression.

I think she's talking about the fees that have, it's the fire protection years that are changing.

The fire protection service? The hydrant? Yeah. The hydrant P. Oh, it's all hydrant.

That's the 589 Vermont. Yeah, there's nothing about that that's different. Okay. Are you changing?

The portion of attachment A with this is actually a change. This is all to do with the bulk water rate. On meter. Bulk water rate, yes. The unmetered bulk water rate. It's not metered. This is our unmetered bulk water rate that comes out of hydrants.

That's the only reason attachment A is the same. So how much support does anybody use in bulk water? That is not about passing this ordinance. Those are questions for afterwards if you'd like to know.

Well, that is part of it, isn't it? No. It specifically says, once this ordinance is passed.

Well, we're here. We just have questions. Because, I mean, we've been in contact with the state. We've been in contact with a board of directors from the Indiana AWWA. And usually utilities do not charge fire department training or fire suppression. It's an inter-local agreement, and since we're a territory, they said that that should be part of our inter-local agreement, that we should not be paid no suppression fees. You have a 30% loss that you can take on water every year, and they said that, you know.

Okay, so the only protection that we're charging is the 589 that goes towards to run and fix hybrids. That's the only thing.

We'll ask that later.

That is meter point.

On metered water, the State Board of Accounts wants to know how do you know how to charge that fee because it's not metered?

What's the proof of the gas meter?

What's the proof of charging for on metered water? It's metered. Your water slide. On-meter fire pit.

On-meter.

That's where you guys have to turn your slips. That's in the, so, but then part of that thing was that if they did not turn the slip in after 24 hours, then you would just charge them for whatever loss you had.

Okay, correct.

So if they have a fire that only took 5,000 gallons of water, they're still saying at the State Board of Accounts, that's just going off of our credibility. Are you going to stand... on that 5,000 gallons, or are we going to have past arguments that you lost 50,000 gallons?

There's a big difference between 5 and 50.

This is the fix everything. This will fix everything if you follow what we ask you in the ordinance. After that, we're all good. Past is past, new is new. We're going to take care of it. I'm just putting it out there.

You guys need to be sure to turn your slips in and that there is accurate, please, to the best of your ability.

That is in this. It is in writing. It requests the slips. If you don't have the slips, then we have to guess. We don't guess.

We don't want to. We don't guess. We go according to what came out of the well house. What went into, on Monday night, we normally use X amount. You guys had a fire on Monday night, didn't turn in the syrup, and we're 10,000 gallons off. You're going to get charged with the 10,000 gallons.

But there's also a safe code saying that you can't charge.

No, there isn't. We can't find one.

What is there?

There's no safe code. I've looked several times. I asked myself who hired me with this and there isn't one.

He still has not. Have you ever guys ever decided to talk to other fire departments, other utilities around the state? No liberty charges for all.

This is not related to the order.

So back to the ordinance. Do we have any other concerns about the one? We need slips turned in within 24 hours. Can both parties sign off? No, this is a town ordinance. What I'm saying is once he turns it in, he needs to sign off. Correct. It should be turned into Cindy. It should be turned into Cindy.

If you turn it in, I agree. I think that's how it should be.

It gets turned into Cindy. She does the water building. And it needs to be signed, whoever brought it in, and whoever received it. And each person gets a copy of it. There's no questions asked. Time and date, done.

So how do we determine if I'm hooked to a hydrant, you know, doing a house fire here in town how do we determine how much water we use because we're not obviously we're not using tankers so we worked where we could measure the water i think that's your business no honestly

That isn't. No, because it's our water. But town water would have no metering, but here's, so, I mean, again, from the state level, you're $5.89 depending on what town you're putting it in. That's for hybrid. But that's what we're putting it in, because it says fire protection. So, that's a question that needs to be answered through the attorneys, because we haven't got that answer yet. says because i mean as a town resident i mean as a town taxpayer that does pay taxes i do feel that if i'm paying 5.89 a month on my water bill i should not be paying for water because then the other thing that we just and that pays to update your hydrant and to keep it running smoothly that is what those fees are for okay when we get on this part you can show us that proof of that organization Where do you put that $5.99? Because you do not have a separate fund. When we requested that from the state where it counts, you are not keeping those monies separate from your water bills.

It goes into water maintenance because that's where it comes from.

That's an accounting question. That's not about... There's nothing in this ordinance about what goes into what fund.

So how do I determine... All our water maintenance comes out of the same fund.

Joe, how do we determine... Regardless of if it's hydrants, we're going to... He wants to know if they pull from a fire hydrant here in town and use it directly out of the hydrant, how do we meter that?

Basically, when we have a meeting and Cindy can come in and pouch, Jacqueline is there to talk with Jim Higgins for our bond and everything. Basically, because the town residents are paying into this system, they will not be charged for water for a fire. Any inside municipal limits, they are already paying in the system. Okay. So, can we use that for training water as well?

You can, but it's metered, so whatever you take out of there, it's going to be out from a hydrant.

If I don't have a hydrant, and I'm going to use them for training, why wouldn't I follow the same rule? It's not for a house.

Why would I follow the same rule?

Once for a fire, an actual emergency, once for training. So are you on a fire department? No, he is our utility. How do you know what you're doing on a fire department if you don't train? Correct, but you could be training for outside. No, we don't train for outside. We train for all. Correct.

So it's not the same. How come we never had to do this on the volunteer base? Well, we did.

Because during volunteer days, we all came together and we worked together. Now, it is why you're charging us this, why you're charging us that. Right now, though, this is about this amendment. We're trying to fix the issue. Like, Bill volunteered. This is about this amendment. There are no questions.

A couple of meetings ago, he said if we were to go to a hydrant here in town and work in the house fire here in town, that homeowner is going to be charged for the fire. But now, all of a sudden, the rules changed. That's because we have a meeting with our fund.

So who's not willing to work together, I guess, is my question.

Why are we sitting here arguing over a water ordinance?

The hearing is not the time for this. The hearing is a hearing.

There's a meeting afterwards.

You asked us about the bulk water. We feel as if we've gone above and beyond.

But only for the fire department, it sounds like.

No, this is for anybody that uses a hydrant. If Betcher's puts up to a hydrant, this goes for them, too.

The only difference in what's being proposed in this hearing for a fire department as opposed to anyone else is that the fire department did not have to notify the water department ahead of time in order to be able to access the hydrants.

Well it's very disheartening that the fire department to the town who could do wonderful things together are having each other's

But right now, we need to... We are not in our town meeting. We're in the ordinance meeting. So it's not about who likes who.

Fault water sales. Fault sales of water for a minimum of 1,000 gallons. Then each 1,000 gallons after that, rounded up to the nearest 1,000. Fault water rates.

Supplies to water obtained from fire.

I have your Indiana code that you know.

Okay? It's pretty bad that I'm not an attorney and I have to give it to you. So, Indiana-812-103... If you go down to section one, it says that you must eliminate fire protection charges billed directly to governmental units other than charges for the construction cost for a new hydrant installed after December 31st, 1993. So you cannot charge a government unit.

Let me look, but I'm pretty sure that falls under IORC regulations. And the town's water department is removed from the IORC jurisdiction.

Did you receive Marcel's last?

See, this whole conversation should be between Marcel and Brandy.

Marcel and Brandy can't get no responses from Brandy.

We can't get responses from Marcel either. So that's where we're coming from.

Because the last contact was Marcel to Brandy. to specify these intergovernmental things in the court.

And the answer to them, the answer to him would be this involves broader rates for fire and any entities or businesses.

Could we let Andy through, please? Did everybody get signed in?

So fault water sales rates to water obtained from town fire hydrants, which is unmetered, rate for local government entities and businesses located within town limits fire hydrants is 1065. Rate for other obtaining water from outside the town limit fire hydrants is 1268. Now, note regarding fault water sales, all water obtained from town hydrants must be accounted for for in the town water audits. As such, all entities and businesses obtaining water from town hydrants must submit a hydrant slip form available at the town hall to the water-tolerant department clerk within 24 hours of using the hydrant, showing the amount of water obtained. Failure to turn in the slip will be deemed consent by the user to the town department, estimating the amount of water obtained by the user from the town's fire hydrant utilizing the town's fire plant meter, meaning you don't turn in a slip, we use the meter, okay? With the exception of the emergency services, all other hydrant users must contact Lakeville Water Department before using the hydrant.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, if you have a house fire within time limits, if they use 300,000 gallons of water, no one's going to be billed for that, right?

Is that correct? Correct. Okay.

So it sounds like to me the best scenario is here is childish. It just is. If there's a house fire here, we don't worry about it. If we do any training or any other fires, we go to South Bend or we go to North Liberty.

You do have to worry about it because the taxpayers in the town of Lakeville do pay taxes for fire protection.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, in town, we can use as much water as we want, but as far as training goes, if we go somewhere else to get our water, then we're saving money by going to the south vendor, literally, to fill our trucks.

Well, if you believe that's going to happen, then that's your business.

That's where you need to get your water, and that's where you fill up.

We can't do anything about that. That's too bad. We have water available.

That's too bad.

This is no different than what we've dealt with for years.

Can I get a copy of your water bottle? It wasn't like that during the founder days.

You will have to... We never had this issue.

We never liked filling.

That will have to be through Cindy and or Jacqueline. I don't know if there's a special form to fill out for that and to request the bond information.

It would just be an app request. I don't think we have a form for that.

We can keep these in the dead hearts or we can fix it. Okay, so going back... Do we have any further comments? I want to ask this.

So you're going to pass this. Did you advertise that in the papers? Yes, we did. So do you have a 10-day appeal on that? Is there a 10-day appeal on that?

Thank you. The statute does not provide for that.

Any other questions? So your ordinance don't, like, they don't come to the 10-day appeal on raising anything on ordinances?

The specific ordinance about rights to the water and waste water utility for a municipal utility that is not under the jurisdiction of the IORC for approval of rights and charges does not provide for an appeal period.

Any other questions? Do we have anybody online that has any questions? I would like to make a motion to close the public adoption of Ordinance 202602. I'll make a motion. Second? All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? 617 p.m.

Frankly what I've seen and what I've heard So I was thinking appeal judicial appeal or appeal with the IORC there is a provision that requires owners of property connected to or served by the works and finally written petition objecting to rates and charges if the petition contains the names and addresses of petitioners and The petitioner intended the public hearing is filed with the municipal legislative bodies within five days of adoption. Now can that be one homeowner or does it have to be multiple homeowners? It says elders of property connected to or connected or to be connected to and served by the works.

She said it was, what, five days? Five days. So you have to have a percentage. Okay.

it does not say there's a percentage but it does say that once the municipal clerk has received the petition and it's documented with the court that the petitioners have to provide a bond okay so we did close the meeting i need to make sure everybody signed in everybody sign in and then we will open our regular meeting

at 6.19 p.m. And we're going to start with the clerk. That's not true. We're going to start with ordinance number 2026-02. I'd like to ask for a motion to pass ordinance 2026-02. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Aye.

This has been nice.

Next up, we have the minutes from May 4th, 2026. I would like to ask for a motion to approve those minutes. I'll second. All those in favor?

Aye.

All opposed?

So be it.

Thank you.

Next up, I have the APBs for the month of June in the amount of $140,803.87. I'd like to ask for a motion to approve. I'll make a motion. All those opposed? So be it.

Next we should have DLZ payment number 24.

It's not DLZ, it's... It's Phoenix. Yeah, Phoenix.

There's DLZ pay number there.

Disbursement form number 24 in the amount of $52,500 minus 5% retainage for this application brings the total to $49,875. It has been looked over and agreed by DLZ that the work was done for this amount. I'd like to ask for a motion to approve payment number 24. I'll make a motion to pay the bill for water power. Aye. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. All those opposed? This is progress report number 25, which is DLZ's . Correct. Next up, we have DLZ progress report number 25. So this payment is actually to DLZ in the amount of $11,020. Again, payment request 25, $11,020 to DLZ. I'd like to ask for a motion to pay this bill. I'll make a motion. Pay number 25. All those in favor? All those opposed? So be it. The DLZ one? Yeah. I just wanted to work it out a little more. We do have one complaint on the agenda. We do have a citizen who is collecting rainwater in a rain barrel and somebody is dumping his rain barrel. This is the fourth time it's happened. Yeah, I haven't talked to him.

I haven't talked He came in this afternoon, so I'll talk to him and see if he has a general timer.

Yeah, without a camera or it's probably just kids dumping.

Or unless it's a neighbor thinking it's hard for him to see them. So that's the only other thing I can think of.

Yeah, I don't know. Everybody got it in their email? We did, yeah. Yeah, so I'll follow up with them tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else?

I don't know. I know one thing that falls, I suppose, most people. related to the website and the Facebook page. I had to go to this seminar, I suppose. It was a talk from the Indiana Office of Technology and they were, in fact, a lot more helpful and informative than I expected the talk to be. One of the things that came up was compliance with the ADA in relation to websites and social media sites. I wasn't sure where we were at on that as far as keeping up with that on the website. I know at minimum that includes having to put all texts on all the pictures and everything that you post and making sure that they are all able to be read by the screen reader.

Okay.

So that's not something that has already happened. I think it's something we need to start working on. Compliance is not required yet. We still have more than a year.

Yeah.

April 2027? I think that sounds about right, yeah.

I think so.

So it's something to start thinking about while you're in the process. And if you have, you know, access to Facebook page or access to the website, then you have time to start going back through stuff to add those things.

Okay. That would be a good idea.

So just like add captions to different captions for all the textures so the screen readers can read them and make sure that people, that was the biggest thing. Information about where to call if they, can't get information off the website for some reason.

So I think a lot of my stuff already has like text comparable to pictures. I try to anyways. Okay. There might be maybe one thing that doesn't have that underneath the picture.

So, you know, it's just a heads up to try to start making sure you're adding that when you're posting stuff. Because unfortunately when you're posting stuff to Facebook, it's not Facebook's job to make sure that it is accessible.

Perfect.

Okay. Okay.

utilities Okay, we got the hydrant that was in front of North Park apartments on the highway that we got that one changed out So that's an updated hydrant now We just got the we're going to change out the hydrants down in the alley here Lorraine's Lane behind the tilted table That will be updated here in the next couple weeks. It's one of the old original hydrants The filter plant is, as of right now, is done for the first part. We will not do the media until, I think, when they get the water mains and stuff down. I believe the old tower plumbing taken off and everything rerouted there, and then we will start, still probably a month away or so before we start that. Okay. And tower update. Everybody saw the old tower is gone. They're going to start, I believe David told me this morning, they are going to start working on getting the foundation down tomorrow, then continue working on getting the old piping that went to the tower swapped out and eliminated. And then it's just on to site restoration down there. So hopefully everything will...

They did a very clean job of that. That was amazing, actually.

Yes, it was...

It was neat to watch those big, huge pieces come down.

Yep, they knew, I mean, they knew what they were doing, and they were out of there at 3.30. They were packed up and heading out when we were heading out.

Yeah.

And all the tower parts were gone and everything, so...

Cool. You know, kudos to them. They cleaned up the mess and everything behind them, so...

Is that the order? Okay, I have a couple items that fall under the utilities for this one from my wonderful office of technology. Cybersecurity assessments, they're going to be required both for political subdivisions and for both municipally operated and non-municipally operated like water and wastewater utilities. The towns in general, I believe, was like one every two years. But the actual water departments, the water and wastewater facilities have to do them every single year. And compliance on that one is coming up pretty quick. It's this year, I believe. They did helpfully tell us that the state has, in fact, an agreement with a consortium that's set up. between IU and Purdue and then there's some private consultancy I think that's involved with it where the Office of Technology will pay for localities that choose to use this service to do their cybersecurity assessments. They said they do them entirely by Zoom and like over a series of about six weeks. They said it's a total of like six hours entirely from beginning to end.

So I'm going to give Jacqueline that info.

It's called incybertrack.org if you want to look it up. We did an assessment with the Alliance. We're basically on the low end because all the skating we have on our filter plant is not remotely done. All it does is alert us if we have a problem. I can't get into it. I have to come down here and physically do it. So that's what we did when we put the SCADA in so we wouldn't have that to do all the cybersecurity. But we did that with the alliance and we are on the lower side of that. Okay.

And then the other thing was you guys had talked about it the last meeting that I was at about payment processing for utilities.

Yeah.

Or being able to take online and debit card transactions. car payments. The state apparently has contracts with both Tyler Technologies and Catalyst for local governments to be able to use them as payment processors that integrate with the systems like Keystone. They specifically called out Keystone as one of the ones that it does work with. And they are, if you go through the state, so I would suggest contacting the Office of Technology to find out exactly how to write that contract. But

You go through whatever contract the state has with these two, and the town would not be charged anything for their processing services.

It would just be the processing fee that gets charged whenever somebody would use their card, would be how they would get compensated.

Okay. So you're looking at all that, Justin? Yeah, I'm sending an email. That's good.

You can have my notes. The only thing on it that's not related to that is what my next meeting is.

Anything else? Nope.

Okay.

Police Department for May had a total of 296 calls for service of that 17 assistance interest from the police department. Traffic hazard on House 1 Rd 911 ping up to Creek State Park. Shots fired over Grand St Medical Assist, Potato Creek State Park crash on Riley Rd. Domestic battery Edinburgh. Puget tire alarm, crash on Dunwood, welfare check on Patterson Road, medical assist 331, an alarm on Roosevelt Road, a death investigation on Oak Road, assault in progress, Lick Trail, shots fired on Cabot Road, a suicide, Clearwater Trailer Park, a domestic on Tamarack, and then an alarm on Johnson Road. We had four assists to the North Liberty Police Department. I had a domestic in the meadow on Meadow Drive. a crash with entrapment on Center Street, a 911 hang-up on Center Street, and an unwanted person on Rizek Drive. Twenty-seven total reports for the month. One criminal mystery, three crash reports, one property damage, ten theft reports, two assisting outside agencies, one harassment, one juvenile investigation, one driving under license, four driving while suspended, one DUI, and two leading the scene of a property damage crash. Had seven total arrests. Those were one for driving under license, four for driving while suspended, one leading the scene of a property damage crash, and one DUI. I had 35 tickets for the month and one with ordinance violation. Just kind of a follow-up. All the guards that were cited last month have been mowed and cleaned up and of that the town did not have to mow any of them so which is good especially one on lake trail that is normally a continual weekend just kind of a little bit update uh build deca they'll be participating in our fourth of july parade again this year and they'll have a quote as well as we'll build band they're also We did have several unlocked vehicles that were gone through the Friday nights before the drive-thru days. I have been able to obtain some video footage. It was four males, younger, that were conducting the break-ins. So we've been working with that, following information on these, and then conducting follow-up for additional footage. Due to those, I did adjust officer hours to actually have third fish, third coverage in town due to those break-ins. Officer Fisher's been staying pretty busy in the evenings and has gone across quite a few interesting things. But during our actual garage sale days, we did not have any issues whatsoever. My yard cleanup did go good. We actually had three four-yard dumpsters. Total cost for the dumpster was $2,175, and that was covered this year again by the EDC. We decided to, after the two-bed RV filled pretty quickly after the garage sale dates were done on Saturday, we did decide to get one additional delivered on Monday.

I'm glad it worked out good this time. I do have a question for you about the building in downtown.

Yes.

Have you heard anything more from him?

Yes. So I did with the building department. So it is currently now listed as an unsafe building. through the building department. I have not heard from him personally. I've just heard from, I've been working with the building department with Randy to be able to get everything done. The only kind of pitch, it's still not corrected, is with the tight end, they transferred everything when Adam Kendall bought the 123 South Michigan, they transferred, the county transferred title and ownership Beeman's building to Marion Assets LLC. Correct. So on my part from the town, I'm still waiting for them to get that corrected because it would go to Marion Assets, which is who is listed under county record and tax record, but is not the actual owner. But on the building department side, it has been cited and it was listed.

Okay. Just keep pushing. We want to get that window taken care of. It's awful. Yep.

Anything else? Really quick, I want to talk about Art in the Park. We have every Saturday covered for this without making any extra calls or pushing it. The town will do this Saturday, will do flowers in upcycled containers. So whether somebody has a shoe or an old tupperware or whatever, we'll supply flowers in the dirt. They supply their container they want to plant a flower in. So anybody that's able to help with that this Saturday would be great. It's from 9 to 10. We have Heartland Church on the 13th. Olive Branch Church on the 20th. Mariel Salon on the 27th. We will not do an Art in the Park on the 4th of July because we will be busy with the press. What time is your break? It starts at 10. Lineups at 9 starts at 10. There's entry forms right out here. I need an entry form filled out for everybody. I would love it if fire and ambo were able to be part of our parade. I will also be contacting, I think last year we had La Paz, Walkerton, and North Liberty. I was going to say, yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of phone calls. July 11th is Muriel Salon. I just said Muriel Salon over here. I'm missing somebody. Oh. Mariel, June 27th is...

I don't have my phone on me.

No, it's here. It's... Braxton Jones has a lawn care business, and they are the ones covering that day. Mariel Salon has July 11th. The library has July 18th. Gorka Graphics has July 25th. And then August... First will be our Baptist school in the park. There are different people at the United Methodist Church this year that will be in charge of that, so it will not be Judy High General as normal. Judy's no longer on the board of directors there. So I have that information that we'll have to pass around.

Should she be the lady to ask us about the dump tank?

We usually get the dump tank. No, fire department. Fire department usually gets the dump tank. Yeah, but if we have, yeah, we'll have to see if they have any meetings planned for organizing that or if they want us to step in. There's been years they've done it on their own. There's been years we've helped.

Well, I only asked that because I believe it was her that stopped at the station about a month ago and was inquiring about it. Okay. And he's obviously no longer with us, so we'll have to figure out everything.

Okay. Every Monday evening, starting at 5 p.m. from now, the next four Mondays, we will be having a meeting at 5 p.m. for the break. Anybody that wants to can always come and join.

Always open for new ideas and fun.

So that is what I have. Old business, we have a follow-up on Grand Street, which Patrick, you've already covered that, correct? Yes. Okay. We will go to public comments. These are limited to five minutes, so. We have public comment. Do we have public comment online?

Well, I have a question for you and I don't know if it's something you'd be willing to do or not, whether it be on the camera or afterwards. But for those that are willing to stay to try to have it come. We gotta heal this. The town and the fire department can't keep doing this. What I see is it's taking more energy for both these parties to not work with each other versus to work with each other, and it has to stop. Because the only ones who are suffering are everybody outside these doors, and you guys haven't stressed over it. I don't know if it's a power struggle. I don't know what it is. He said, she said. There's got to be conversation, guys. There has to be.

Can I respond to that?

like you know i was on the volunteer side for five years before i was fortunate enough to be on the paid side on this department and i enjoy um covering this community there's great people in this community and i just don't remember any of this being an issue when we're on the volunteer side of the water it is i'm baffled by it i don't know if it's a transparent on one side or the other, but I know I spoke with Kelly before. She is willing to talk, move forward, whatever the case may be, but it's going to take everybody to do it. And at some point, someone's got to put their guard down and let's move forward because we can't continue to keep doing this over water because everybody out around here is suffering because of you two women together.

could do great things for this community.

But for whatever reason, there's a power struggle. So I'm really hoping that you guys can come together at some point, whether it be tonight with the group here afterwards to try to figure some things out and move forward. Something's got to happen. I know I probably shouldn't be speaking, but it's not fair to the community. Honestly, and it's not fair to you. And it's not fair to the people on the fire board either. We've got a new chief.

I think there's more transparency there.

I think there was some miscommunication for sure on some things because you thought the fire truck was one thing and another thing I heard. So it's time. It's past time. We've got to stop. I'll put Rachel in. I love all of you.

I'm going to respond to this. We don't have a problem with the fire department. Well, it was me specifically. But I'm just letting you know like whatever your internal discussions with each other have created a lot of this that isn't even happening here. We're busy. We're busy. We're busy doing infrastructure and roads and things like that. We're not always cued in on everything with you or talking about you or dealing with all of those things, just so you know. We went ahead and did this so that it is no longer a question about what is and what isn't because that was what was asked of us. It's not that we do not support you. We support you wholeheartedly 100%, okay? It has nothing to do with anything. A lot of this is people talking to people, people gossiping to people, people keep it going. If you had watched our last one, I basically said we all need to get along and this is It's long enough. No more. There's no reason for it. We're not against anyone. We don't, we want to be cohesive. We've had cohesive relationship with them for the longest time, the township. So what happened? I would have to say that there are a few people that were felt treated off. Okay. And we'll just leave it at that. It doesn't matter at this point because it's long gone. It's been years at this point. It had nothing to do with me. I don't have any angst or anything against the fire at all. There's nothing. Kelly and I have had conversations. She knows exactly where I stand. Guys need to stop gossiping. People need to stop feeding it. People need to stop listening to the poison.

Yeah, I could not agree with you more.

And that's not even us. So I'm just putting that out there. We have no... But we have no... On the board itself, the town of Lakeville, the board, none of that's happening. So we got to let... You cannot control what the outside people do or say. Agreed. We can't control the goths. We can't control it. The biggest thing we can do is just like chill out on each other and just do what we need to do to get it done.

Communicating.

Communicating.

Communicating in a nice way. And communication, this is the thing.

For us, I heard what you said earlier while we were discussing all of these other things. The thing is what we get is we feel we are moving forward by doing this, okay? And then we get that... It's a shame and guilted because we're not giving what is fully wanted. And there are times that we don't always get everything that we want, right?

Like in how it works out.

You know, like maybe the free testing water, we get it, okay? But there's also things that we have to be accountable for.

I just kind of forgot how we came from never having water that's used to nothing.

That's not true, because since I was on the fire board, when I was on the fire territory, all we did was argue with George about water. I don't remember how the people... Yes, yes. We made... Hold on.

No, educate people. Yeah, yeah. The difference was Lake Bilkey would pay for water. Yeah, which we do so because they were an outside entity. The issue is, is they're saying now that they're not part of the Indiana Regulatory, so they do not follow any state They don't because of why they're... Well, because they're not governed under the Indiana way before. Okay. So when we sit here and we're reading laws and I'm talking to the Indiana State Board of Accounts, I mean, we know, me and you would know that State Board of Accounts needs specifics. I mean, I can't just... That's correct. Give me $50.

I have to have a receipt for what that $50 is for.

So when I'm turning in water slips and they're doing an audit on this, they can't just give or take. It's got to be a specific.

Which is what this will do now, correct? Which this would do.

But when they are telling, and that's where, I mean, and it's not. that you get a parking, but they're more well-versed.

Well, all of these laws. I know that I want to put an attorney in it. We're not going to spend like an hour on this whole conversation. Right now, Ron still has like one minute left.

I know this is, but we need to have this discussion.

But I'm going back to my agenda. We each get five minutes to speak.

I'm good, thank you. Thank you, Brett, because I was not aware of that.

You are more than, anybody is more than welcome to come down to the meeting. And I will show you everything. It used to be when... at the door just like that. I have hybrid slips. I would get hybrid slips a week later. Now, and I'll show you my text, ever since we switched over, I'm the one that has to call most of the time or for a while. Travis has sent me stuff before, but I would have to constantly ask for hybrid slips.

Well, I think that issue is no longer going to be an issue.

And I hope so. Yeah, the hydrogen slugs are a main key important thing that has to be done. And that's why we made sure it was in the ordinance. So it was something that needed to be followed. Because what would happen is, yes, we would, then we wouldn't.

Or people are saying they turn it in. Other people said, no, they didn't.

Now we know this has to be done. Turn it into city.

We will make sure she's instructed.

We're going to turn it into city. Most people sign. We're going to put a bank account in.

And then most people get a copy.

So for years, we... We went through this before. We did a whole ordinance before, but it was for the other entity. So now we did not update the entity. We were just going by what we had always done. Now it is updated with your guys' as the fire department is entered in there.

So now that the State Board of Accounts is involved, if you will, this is going to make it more transparent.

You should understand, some of the issues that we're discussing on why this ordinance is, is we were turning in a slip. we turned in a slip from a fire for juniper road and then there came back okay we're like way off again okay hold on so yeah i'm just trying to explain so when when it came back we were being charged way above what was turned in so that's kind of where that that was on unmetered water is that correct yes so they had turned in a slip and i'm just gonna i don't even know remember that but let's just say it was 6,000, but then when they built it, it was 60,000. So it was a huge difference. Okay, so how...

So they've all been working with that, whatever's going on.

And that's why you come to this.

Yeah, this. Okay.

So this could literally be some issues.

Because the whole goal is to go back to where we were before, where this was not a thing, and then we want it fixed. But fixing doesn't always mean the other entity is happy with the result. And that's unfortunately like some of it. We know what we have to do. If you would like to give information to him, like he asked us about Higgins and all that stuff about our water bond. If you wanted to see our water bond. So just the only thing I want to clarify.

with brandy then is you do not follow any any indiana codes because you're not part of the indiana regulatory there are some that are there are some that are covered in there are some that are not it's not super clear if you're just looking at it to figure out what counts and what doesn't a lot of this stuff that's under the chapter about the iurc Unless it like specifically says it applies to literally everyone, probably doesn't apply.

If it's a regulation that's promulgated by the IURC, it certainly doesn't. But if this isn't part of the Indiana, if this is just an Indiana code for...

I looked at the statute. No, I'm looking at a different statute. A different one, but the one you mentioned earlier? Yes. Okay.

if it does not specify that it's part of the Indiana Regulatory Commission and it is just a town governing, and it says that fire protection should be eliminated from governmental units, that still does not follow for you? Like it can be billed directly to the consumer? So for instance, I live in a county, I'm in an unincorporated area of the town. Okay. So, I have fire at my house, and you put 5,000 gallons on it. You cannot charge fire protection, but you could charge me directly because it was put on my home. Because I'm in the only court. I'm not paying a tax to it.

So, the fire protection charge that we have is for... The town cannot charge. It's only for the people who live in town who get a water bill.

Okay. But what I'm saying is this code, which, and I'll throw it to Marcel, is saying that If I live within a town, which I have a house here in town, my house on Green Street burns down. You cannot charge me for it because I'm paying into the taxes and the fire protection at $5.99. Okay. I do not pay a water bill out in the township where I live because I do well. So my house out in the township catches on fire, and then they come and put 5,000 gallons of water on it. The town should bill me directly, not the government. We can't do that. We have to build a person who removes it from the hydrant. If that code says that, is that how it has to be done? If you cannot build a governmental unit, you do not have an ordinance put in place with your fire protection service saying that you are charging... Charging that. I mean, you have to have an actual interlocal agreement ordinance with the fire protection agency. You cannot charge governmental units. We're a governmental unit. So the new road fire.

I would need to see what you're referencing in order to answer your question. My whole problem here is on my agenda we should get five minutes and we've been on this for way longer.

I do want to answer something about that charge too. But this is how we clear the waters of things so I understand.

I do want to answer. You're not on the agenda. About why also why we have that charge also for people who live in town. If we don't have proof that's also proof that we paid for fire protection through hydrants. If we don't have that, their insurance goes sky high also. It's one of those things that we integrated that because if we cannot show proof of a town that we have hydrant service, their insurance goes like that because there's quote unquote no protection.

So since you're not charged in the fire department if there's a fire in town here, does the homeowner then get that water though or just no because they're already paying for that service? Okay, I understand. I thought that sounded interesting.

So why couldn't you just charge the consumer of where we spray the water? If we turn in a water slip for 10,000 gallons, you should charge them. Because that would be like somebody wanting to buy, a veteran buying pool water and wanting us to fill where they're taking the pool water.

Okay.

Which you've got to bill the center counselor.

Because they took the, they took the water.

we did not build a homeowner we build center township fire because they removed the water i have several people online with comments do i need to read all those comments out loud they're not questions they're comments i think you probably should okay then i'm going to start with gregory garrett who says hello there everyone um sydney rhoda 7215 these people So profit over people. These people already lose everything, and let's throw another expense. Sydney Rota, 7215, under Indiana Code 8-1.5-4-14, water furnished for public purpose and maintained facilities for fire protection are municipal obligations. The statute contemplates the municipality paying for fire. Sydney Rota, 7215. I don't know what that was again before I had it. 8-1.5. Yeah, I got that part. Dash 4, dash 1.4. Okay. Okay. Sidney wrote it, 7215. With no established ordinance and no agreement, it is provided through the taxes. Pamela Urbanski, 3394. In Indiana, a town or water utility cannot bill a fire department for the water used to extinguish a standard house fire. that are coming to our water line. Hold on, let me finish reading these. And if we wanna know why there are a lot of issues, let's take into account who's making a lot of these comments. So leave the third, yeah, that's all I'm gonna say. Pamela Urbanski, 3394, you can charge the homeowner but not the fire department. Sydney Rhoda, 7215, so you want to charge people more money after they potentially lose everything. Government for the people, right? Pamela Urbanski, 3394. I didn't make the laws just telling you what the law states. Sydney Rhoda, 7215. I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with the ordinance because they think it supersedes state law. Give me just a second here.

Sorry. So they're just arguing in the comments amongst themselves or something?

because they think their ordinance supersedes the law, which it doesn't. The whole point. Just remember, we don't crop it off of any of it. The whole point of checks and balances, democracy at its finest. Pamela Urbanski, 3394, you are correct. Sydney Rhoda, 7215, the fire department is there to protect people and be comfort for people who face the worst times of their lives. If the town wants to charge the people, let the water department handle it. Sydney Rhoda, 7215, Fire protection tax is what pays for the water in the event of a house fire. The homeowners pay their water bills. Let's drain these people even more so after a tragedy. Pamela Urbanski, 3394. That is correct. The town has been charging the fire department thousands of dollars for hydrant water. The fire department cannot recover those funds, so it's taking away from the operation fund. Sydney Rhoda, 7215. You want to charge the department. Show me the contract of agreement. The only way it would be able to be lawful, lawfully enforced. Cindy wrote up. Where is an agreement with the town and the fire department? Otherwise, the ordinance means nothing. So those are the comments. None of those are questions, but those are comments that are coming through online right now.

Here we go.

So that's why I wanted to make it clear why there's that charge there so that they understand that we legally have to charge something to help cover whatever happens in town and to maintenance the hydrants that help with fire protection. And it also keeps their homeowners insurance down. Because if we don't have it, it's bad news.

So I can come in tomorrow morning. Okay, would you like to start your five-minute public comment? Yeah.

This is what we do. in area plan, this is what they do in county, this is what you do in your meetings. So don't laugh that I'm trying to hold my table down. Thanks. I'm not laughing at you. So am I able to come in tomorrow morning and get a copy of the water bottle? You can come in and request it. I don't know if Cindy will have it in that moment or if it'll take her a day or two to get that to you.

I'm not sure what, if there's... Or she'd have to dig it out for me to get you a copy of it.

Yeah. But you can come in and request that and We'll make sure you get one if that's what you want. I would like to say I'm not trying to cause any issues. We had a bulk water problem, so we tried to fix it. But as we're trying to fix this, and another issue comes up, and another issue comes up. It's just aggravating. This is not our full-time job. This is what we do part-time, and we try to help this community, and we do try to be one. with comments like what's coming through on the computer right now, that's hard to do. So that's all I'm going to say. We're doing our best, and we're doing what was asked. So does anybody else?

We wouldn't do this job if we didn't care about the community. Well, I think we all would say that. We don't get paid as full-time employees for anything. Not at all. So we're just also covering our butts also because we have things that we have to follow.

What you women have put up with and I've seen what she has put up with and what I have heard is utterly ridiculous. Yeah.

People don't understand.

I'll just make comments to myself on that whole little thing.

What it all comes down to is people don't understand how it works. They don't understand the underneath of how things work.

I think this board and that board gets together Until the day I die out of state, I think you guys can do amazing things and let the comments be what the comments are. That's my opinion.

Well, I think, too, it just helps having clarification. We're not arguing it. We just, we're a government entity, you're a government entity, and how you have to be accountable.

You have to run your business and we have to run ours.

We have to run ours and we just have to be able to justifiably, when we have a water slip, And then we're getting a different bill that doesn't match up to it. That's not going to happen. That's in the past. Now we can move forward. And we'll move forward from there. And we'll know that that's what it is. But it would help, too, if when we do hire attorneys, if they will communicate. Because they could have fixed this a year ago. Well, and that's what he said, she said.

He's saying one thing, she said. That's between them. No, no, no.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm just saying that we need... Also, if something is turned into the attorney, such as a water bill, we cannot sit here and discuss that in a public meeting because it's been turned into the attorney. The attorney is the one who needs to handle that now. Once it's been given to them, it's in their hands. So I'm no longer, we are no longer going to comment on something that's already been turned over to an attorney. So that's kind of the end of the discussion on a lot of this water stuff.

I do think to the one thing, do you have any return to go to fire eventually? No.

Fire was on here before, when it was a volunteer fire department, and the chief would come in and give us reports once a month, now that that's over.

You can be... So, well, it should have...

It was. It was.

How did we get back on it? You need to call and be put on the agenda.

Or... Or...

You can be under public comment. That was back in the day when they actually needed reports.

I'm sorry. Will you stop? You have five minutes to speak. If you'd like more than five, you are more than welcome to call to be put on the agenda. If I go to your meeting, I'm not even allowed to talk. So stop. Stop.

Knock it off.

I like that you're here. Thank you for coming and being part of this. And actually be a part of it.

Because that wasn't for a long time. I'm sorry you feel it was a waste of your time.

We don't think it's a waste of your time.

Because our agendas did change. Okay, so what it is is the old way was that you brought a report. Would you like to bring a report every month for us?

Yeah. Kelly's saying no, you're saying I don't know.

I mean, the only thing about it is it's being double recorded because you're doing your reports as a buyer. It just was different.

But it's a good communication. It's a good start.

If you want to do it, if you want to do it, we can add you back on.

But you will be limited just like our own departments. It's not going to be an hour-long conversation about fire and water.

We don't have a beef with you. That's fair. That's fair enough. It'll be limited to 10 minutes the same way Joe is limited. And he's willing to do it. So I would say

The same way Joe is limited, you guys will be limited. And that'll be the end of it. Right now, we've been talking about this for 25 minutes. Not saying it's bad, but it's above and beyond what we were supposed to be doing this evening.

I'm glad we have some discussions.

We've got to communicate, even if it's an hour or more. We're going to agree on some things.

I want you here, and I want you to bring a report once a month of that. Okay?

And listen, we don't have a beef room.

We just don't. We're trying to protect our own interests. You guys are trying to protect your own interests, and that's part of it. And all the time, it doesn't always equal out to be exactly what we want. It just isn't. A lot of stuff that went on with you guys is not exactly how we would have done it, but that's the way it is, right? It's the way it is. And you know what? I even posted for you that your ambulance is back on cue, by the way.

Thanks for doing that, April.

Because I am ecstatic about that.

It's outside if you want to see it.

Yes, I'm going out.

When we leave, I'm going out. Fortunately, we haven't had to use it today.

Andy, do you have anything?

No, I think I'm good. Good job on the water tower stuff.

yeah they did good does anybody have anything else say um just because we didn't get it in june 13th we're doing a food distribution at the fire station we will share that that was my air i um what time do you do those 11 a.m recommendation

start an hour early, because we have Art in the Park from 9 to 10, so you may get 9 to 10 families.

We are trying to get a call today, and we're like, it's okay.

Do you have a flyer or something?

I'll throw it on Facebook if you throw it to me.

Send it to my phone, because I can just do it on the phone. Okay. You got my number, right? Okay.

Yeah, we'll share that.

I mean, it's not that they won't So this last time, I mean, they did bring the food early. And we'll let you know.

Well, if you can print out a few extra flyers and get them to myself, I go to every one of these Art in the Parks, so that way there's representation. Or even if you just want to... Yeah. Yeah, like over the summer when you're doing it. Even if you want to run me some flyers or bring a few things up to the park, there's probably going to be anywhere from 10 to 20 families up there that could use it that may not even know. Yeah, nice. So we'll be in the park from 9 to 10, which is right next door. Okay. It's on the side of the park, too, so they drive by. Yeah. Perfect. Anything else on one?

Before we close, I just want to make sure we have general comments. which further greatly increases the potential for loss of life not only the citizens but a firefighter

So I...

But do we need to read off... Hold on. There is a question. Well, and again, it's Sydney Rhoda. They're going to pay fuel for the cost of the freight. That's the only thing with the question.

Can I just ask a question on home property? If we're tearing down a garage and we're not putting a permanent structure garage there, do we need

Yes. But you would still need an IOP and then you would still need a through the building department a demolition permit. Yes. And the only thing then the demolition permit will do number one to get it to take that off from the tax record.

Okay.

And then if it depends on the other structure because anything there are certain setbacks for different depending on if it's a shed or and then that can determine on whether it's a movable type

Yeah, depending on what kind of thing it is, it gets to stay for different periods of time, I think.

If you build a deck, make sure it's under 36 inches, you don't have to have the rail. Anything else? No, that's fine.

No animosity over here. It's business.

Well, in that case, I'm going to ask for a motion to call this meeting closed at 7.09 p.m. I will definitely make a motion. All those in favor? Aye. Are you in favor?

I don't talk about zoning enough otherwise. I don't talk about zoning anymore. I don't talk about zoning out there. I just have an idea.